June 24, 2025 • 34 mins
Discover the unexpected magic of paper in this fascinating podcast episode that goes far beyond mere writing surfaces. Join Emmy Award winning lifestyle host, Jane Clauss, as she explores Hahnemühle, a 440-year-old German paper company that's revolutionizing creativity and sustainability. Learn how innovative paper makers are transforming everyday materials like bamboo, hemp, and sugarcane into extraordinary artistic tools, challenging everything you thought you knew about paper. From the company's rich historical roots to cutting-edge sustainable production techniques, his episode explores how tradition and innovation go hand-in-hand.
Whether you’re an artist, a journaler, or just someone who loves beautiful materials with a story, you'll be amazed by how a simple sheet of paper can unlock unlimited creative potential. Get ready to turn the page on your next creative chapter, one sustainable sheet at a time.
“Creativity means for me, doing or creating something that makes me forget time… It’s not limited to art, it can help solve problems in a creative or effective way.” - Rana Ardal, Hahnemühle
If you want to jump around or revisit your favorite moment, we made a handy cheat sheet with show notes for you!
[0:00:10 - 0:02:20] Hahnemühle’s Rich History and Sustainability
- Jane introduces Hahnemühle, a 400-year-old paper company from Germany
- Highlights the company's commitment to sustainable paper production
- Emphasizes the intersection of creativity and environmental consciousness
- Sets the stage for a deep dive into innovative paper manufacturing
[0:02:37 - 0:07:10] Company Origins and Unique Production Methods
- Explanation of the company name (rooster mill)
- Detailed history of paper production dating back to 1584
- Discussion of their unique mold-made paper machine from 1871
- Insight into traditional handcrafted papermaking techniques
- Showcases the company's long-standing expertise in paper production
[0:07:46 - 0:14:13] Sustainable Fiber Innovation
- Introduction of the natural line of papers using alternative fibers
- Exploration of materials like bamboo, hemp, agave, and sugarcane
- Detailed research process for developing new sustainable paper products
- Explanation of how these fibers require less water and no pesticides
- Demonstrates the company's commitment to environmental innovation
[0:20:51 - 0:25:26] Digital Fine Art Paper and Creative Possibilities
- Invention of digital fine art paper range in 1997
- Discussion of paper's versatility beyond traditional uses
- Exploration of three-dimensional paper art
- Highlighting the museum in Berlin dedicated to paper art
- Showcasing the creative potential of paper as a medium
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VO (00:00):
Time to tantalize your earbuds with creative makers and
shakers. It's creative living,the podcast with Jane Claus,
Jane Clauss (00:10):
Welcome to Creative living, where we help you live
your most creative life. I'mJane Claus, and as always, I'm
so happy you're here to talkcreativity with me. Now, you
know, I love anything that helpsyou tap into your imagination,
anything to help you be morecreative, get into that flow and
feel that satisfying spark ofmaking something with your own
(00:32):
two hands and your creativemind. I always say, just give me
one hour a day of beingcreative, and you will start to
feel the difference. Some peoplesay it's therapy. Some people
say it's inspirational. And Ireally think creativity just
makes life better. You know, itgives me that sense of
satisfaction that I made itmyself, sewing, specifically
(00:55):
upcycling. So a few weeks ago, Igot to show a collection of my
sustainable designs at a fashionshow, which was super cool to
see my looks walk the runway,plus I got to inspire others
through sustainability infashion. So I'm always thinking
about how creativity andsustainability go hand in hand,
(01:17):
not just in fashion, but in allaspects of life, and that brings
us to today's topic, paper. Yes,paper. I know some of you are
just addicted to paper. I'mlooking at you. Yes, I am. But
I'm not just talking about anypaper. I'm talking about
beautiful, sustainable, artworthy paper that is making
(01:39):
waves in the creative world.Hana mula is headquartered in
Germany, and one of the oldestpaper companies in the world.
They started making paper in1584 that is over 400 years of
producing paper, and today theycreate hundreds of different
(02:00):
types of paper for so many usesin the creative world and
beyond. But today we're talkingabout sustainability artistry
and redefining what paper canbe. So joining me to talk paper
purpose and the power ofcreating sustainability are
Barbara Knipper and Rana Ardalfrom Hahnemühle
Barbara Knipper (02:20):
Jane. Hi. Jane, thank you for having us.
Jane Clauss (02:26):
Here's the thing. Hahnemühle is hard to say, but
it's so much fun to say. I'vebeen practicing it, and I think
everybody should say Hana mulaat least four times a day. Tell
us what Hahnemühle means.
Barbara Knipper (02:38):
Well, you said Hana mula quite good. So it's,
you're nearly perfect. Wepronounce it like Hannah
Mueller. This means Han is therooster and Mueller is the mill.
So together, it's Hahnemühle andHannah. The first part was given
from our first namesake. He wascalled Karl, Hannah, and that's
(03:03):
why the first part of our nameis Hannah. Mueller, as
mentioned, is the mill.
Jane Clauss (03:08):
Mullah is the mill. So you have both been working at
Hahnemühlefor over 20 years eachAm I right about that? Rana,
Rana Ardal (03:17):
yes, I started at Hahnemühle in 2002 it's already
23 years ago, and I started inthe marketing department, but
now I'm the product manager forall the traditional Fine Art
papers that we are producing,and also the segment lead for
the traditional fine art so andit is really fun to work here,
(03:40):
because it's already 23 yearsand it's so creative and we are
developing, we are searching fornew products, and also to be in
the middle of the environmentalfriendly area where we are is
also Very nice, and it is alwaysa pleasure to develop new papers
(04:04):
for the world.
Jane Clauss (04:05):
And you are probably living a healthy life
because of the area that thecompany is situated in. We're
going to get to that in just abit. Barbara, you've been also
with the company for over 20years. So I'm going to kick
things off with a really sillyquestion. Before we get to the
the nitty gritty of all thisamazing work that you're both
doing, you have probably seenmore paper than people have seen
(04:25):
in a lifetime. So I need to knowwhat is your guilty pleasure? Is
it the feel of a perfectlypressed sheet of paper or the
smell of fresh paper? Or maybeyou're just hoarding like one of
those amazing notebook designs.
Barbara Knipper (04:42):
Say at the beginning, when I started with
Hahnemühle, and I heard it'sabout paper, I was like, okay,
paper is not that difficult, andit has not that wide variety.
What's paper? And then you getinto it, and it's huge, really,
huge. Huge application areaswe're talking about, and it's
(05:06):
the love of paper. Like artists,it's something special, and you
get so much back if you talkwith them about paper.
Jane Clauss (05:13):
I'm teasing with my opening question, because we all
have a guilty pleasure when itcomes to the places that we
worked, but because we mentionedthat the company has been around
for over 400 years, Barbara giveus a quick glimpse into the
company's history and how it'sevolved over the centuries. And
(05:34):
I know that that could be anhour and a half long
conversation with that onequestion, but it really and
truly started where you're attoday?
Barbara Knipper (05:42):
Yes, definitely. We're still here at
the production site in Dassel,Germany. We started already
here, 441 years ago, to producepaper. So the paper maker, Mr.
Merton Spies, that's the personwho founded the mill and started
to create paper at thebeginning. As everybody may
(06:04):
know, it's it was most writingpaper. Only people needed paper.
Could read, could write. So itwas very special. It was really
important. And that was thebeginning. So he was allowed to
produce writing paper at thebeginning, and then at the
beginning, it was only handcrafted paper, so it was really
(06:26):
hard work. And until the end ofthe 18th century, the first
paper machines were built andwere used. For example, we have
two machines. We have a phonerim machine, and we have a mold
made paper machine. And in ourmold made paper machine is
something very special, as wehave still a part of the
(06:46):
machine, which still in themachine since 1871 so it's still
running, it's still a part of
machining. Who is still runningsingle paper? Yeah, from 1871
Jane Clauss (06:59):
Yeah. Wow. I wonder who the repairman on that guy
you know? Like, ever called aguy? Like, he's like, I don't
know how to fix it. I wasn'talive.
Barbara Knipper (07:06):
Now we have a huge group of people taking care
of our good machines here,
Jane Clauss (07:10):
like the ghosts that come back, they're like,
let me just show you guys how todo this. No, I'm teasing. I
mean, it's such a rich history,and it's just really and truly
amazing. Rana, there are over10,000 Paper producers and mills
all over the world, and theymake hundreds of millions of
tons of paper a year, fromnotebooks to packaging to fine
(07:32):
art paper to photography paper.Talk a little bit about what
makes Hahnemühle so uniquecompared to all of these other
paper manufacturers when itcomes to craftsmanship and
tradition,
Rana Ardal (07:45):
Barbara was talking about the mold made paper
machine that we are having inthe world. There are only a few
left, four or five in the worldhaving such a mold made paper
machine. We are one of them. Andthese machines are the machines
that are producing papers thatare most close to the handmade
paper. So it's a super specialproduction process that you can
(08:08):
gain by using mold made papermachines. And of course, we have
an experience of more than 441441 years, exactly, years. There
is a huge experience that we arehaving, and also we are really
at the foot of the zollingMountain. The water that we use
for the production of our highquality papers is very pure and
(08:30):
clean spring water. It's alsothe reason why Martin spies
found that this paper millexactly where it is right now.
It is because of the cleanspring water. So this is also
something very special aboutHana mula having that special
water to produce papers. Becausethe more clean, the better the
(08:53):
water is, the better is thepaper. And the thing is, we are
only borrowing the water. We aregiving it back to the nature,
since our history, has alwaysbeen very connected to nature
and its protection, the nature,the sustainability, is in our
DNA. Also the production site isin the middle. We say sometimes
(09:14):
it's in the middle of nowherebecause it's really green. There
are mountains, there's water,there are cows around. So it is
really a very natural area, andand we are borrowing the spring
water. We are using it toproduce our papers, because
water is very essential whileproducing paper, it's up to 80
(09:37):
90% during the process that weuse water and then it it, it
goes back to and when the papergets dry, the water goes back to
the nature without using anychemistry treatment, it can be
given back as it is, becauseeverything is so clean and so
pure. So this is also somethingthat we have the experience. Uh,
(10:00):
the the the raw materials thatwe are using, we are always
using super high quality rawmaterials. It's very important
to us because our papers, theyare acid free, they are vegan,
which is very important to us.They are age resistant. And to
get all these features, we haveamazingly high quality raw
(10:23):
materials, such as the cellulosethat we are using, the cotton
fibers that we are using, but weare also using other fibers that
we might talk about, about thesustainable fibers that we had
launched during the last years.
Jane Clauss (10:37):
Really and truly, you are in a league of your own
when it comes to paper,manufacturing, history, quality,
eco conscious, innovation, so,so many things. And you know,
you you sort of painted thisbeautiful picture of the most
gorgeous landscape of where thiscompany is nestled in, in this
(10:59):
nature conservatory. And it justsounds like you're going to
Wonderland every day, especiallybecause you're using those
natural resources, and you'vebeen doing that for over 400
years. It's really and trulyamazing. And now you're saying,
Rana, that you've introduced anentire line of eco conscious
sustainable papers. Tell usabout that natural line of
(11:22):
papers and what makes it ecoconscious from the beginning to
the end, this specific new linethat you just launched
Rana Ardal (11:29):
with the use of the natural line fibers that I will
talk about, we really focused onvery exceptional and
extraordinary raw materials,these sustainable fibers such as
bamboo fibers, hemp fibers,fibers, agave fibers and sugar
cane fibers. These are fibersthat are gained from very on
(11:51):
demanding, fast growing plantsthat don't need any pesticides.
They require significantly lesswater, and this really helps to
protect the environment ingeneral. In already in 2008 we
started with this sustainablefiber natural line by launching
(12:13):
the bamboo mixed media artistpaper. We got a few awards for
that, because we were the firstin that niche market, in that
artist paper market, to launchsuch mixed media paper, where we
have 90% of bamboo fibers and10% of cotton fibers. And then
(12:36):
we did our researches anddevelopment, and we really
wanted to add new family membersto that natural line. And we
found out that Agave is aperfect fiber for another
watercolor paper for awatercolor application. And
agave was already used by theAztecs and Mayans to make
(12:57):
fabrics, ropes, yarns andcarpets, many, many years ago,
and then from Mexico, that Agavecame over to Africa. And in
Africa it was called the blondegold of Africa, and it is a very
undemanding fiber which reallydoes not need water. And we did
our research on agave, and thenwe did the same with hemp. Hemp
(13:20):
is also a fiber which is alreadyknown about 12,000 years. It was
used in China and Persia, again,to make fabrics and ropes, and
also the seeds were eaten andalso used as medical treatment
and everything but these fibers,they are so strong and that you
can really make paper out of it,but it took us a long time. Of
(13:44):
course, we made our research, wedid production trials and
checked what paper, what kind ofpaper can be done, and then also
sugarcane, our last familymember in that natural line. It
is from a fast growing sugarcaneplant, and it's actually, it's
left over from the sugarproduction process. For us, this
(14:06):
is a very valuable raw materialthat would otherwise be disposed
off by burning, but we are usingit to make paper out
Jane Clauss (14:13):
of it. That's really amazing. And as you're
kind of describing all of thesealternate materials to make the
paper. I'm thinking of you in inresearch and development, and
you've got your lab coat on, andyou're with scientists, and
you're with researchers, andyou're, you know, you're doing
all these different kind ofexperiments to say, Well, what's
going to hold the water colorbetter? What's going to be the
(14:36):
best paper that we can create?Is that what it's like?
Rana Ardal (14:39):
Yeah, it's more or less like that. In a laboratory,
we are producing a small sheetof paper, which we later on make
on the machine, but it is firsttested in the laboratory. We
create a paper by hand, put inthe degree and look how the
ratio should be. When we useagave with cotton, or should we
(15:03):
use agave with cellulose?Because you need to mix it.
Because those sustainablefibers, they are very, very
strong and very robust. And tomake it an artist paper, you
need to mix another material,and we mix it with cotton, but
60 to 70% of the paper is thatnatural line fiber, which is a
sustainable fiber, and we mix itwith the cotton fibers. But this
(15:25):
is, as you said, it's like weare sitting there and making
some tests, and I do paintmyself as well, and so I have
the opportunity to make the testdirectly on that sheet of paper
that we have just created in thelab. And if it's fine, then we
make our first trials on themachine, and then again, test
it, and so on. So it's it's along procedure, but we are very
(15:49):
quick in everything that we do,so and it's really fun, because
we need to adjust here andthere, and then later on, we can
launch a beautiful product.
Jane Clauss (16:00):
Beautiful products when I think about paper, you
know, and I did a little bit ofwork, sort of selling different
types of papers, and that's whenI came to appreciate the texture
of paper. It really is fiberswoven together that you can
manipulate in any way you want,or it'll accept a paint or or
water, or whatever medium you'reputting on it, when you're
(16:22):
creating the papers, and you'refeeling the thickness or the
texture to it, is there acertain standard that you want
to get to, or is there somethinglike with this Agave paper, we
wanted to have this sort oftexture to it, or this thickness
to it, or does it just sort ofhappen? And then the follow up
to that is the differencebetween creating these papers
(16:45):
out of these special materialsversus using traditional wood
pulp. Like, what's the benefit?And obviously we know it's
sustainability is the benefit,but does it work better for an
artist?
Rana Ardal (16:58):
Well, first of all, when we do our trials, our
research on the fibers of the onthe sustainable fibers, of
course, we know that they havespecial features. As I've said,
they are very robust. They arevery strong, and they're quite
hard. And we know that when weare thinking about adding new
products to our range,sustainable range, then we have
(17:20):
in our minds that the grammageshould be this or that. And then
we make our tests. And then whenwe try and see that, it is
really beautiful for watercolorpainting, then we work on that.
Then we say, Okay, this shouldbe a paper for the watercolor
technique, because this, thisAgave fiber is, is perfect for
watercolor. When we make a trialwith the hemp fiber, for
(17:42):
example, and we feel that thisis perfect for a sketch paper,
then we work on that. Then wesay, okay, let's work. Let's
focus on having a hemp paperwhich is more into dry painting
techniques and so on. When wedid it with bamboo, we did our
first trial. We saw, Oh, this isgreat for mixed media. You can
(18:03):
use watercolor on it, acrylic,fine liner, even pastel, if you
like, and for the sugar cane.There again, we saw, this is a
paper rather for the wetpainting technique. Very good
for watercolor, but it's perfectfor gouache. For example, when
we realize that the features ofa fiber is more into this or
that. Technique we work on that.We let it flow a bit. Of course.
(18:27):
We we determine the grammage. Wesay, okay, the grammage should
be rather 300 rather 260 orsomething like that. Or the
color should be a natural white,or rather bright white, whereas
the natural white range israther natural white. So this is
how it works, actually. And thedifference is, we always say,
(18:47):
when you are an artist, there isno wrong, no right. Everybody
has his own, her own taste. Andthe natural line papers, you
need to get used to them. Forexample, on the agave paper,
watercolor paper. Watercolor is,you know, it's, we are very
water and but you can alsoscratch on that paper because it
(19:08):
has that hard surface. And withthe natural line papers, we
really give additional featuresto the artists that they can
choose between all the papersthat we
Jane Clauss (19:18):
have. And I love that you said, it's really up to
the artists or to theindividual, because creativity
is something special to each andevery one of us. So we may
prefer one thing when you hadintended it to be used for, you
know, mixed media. I'm going touse it for something else, which
I think is great. You leave itup to the artist. You talk about
vegan paper. What makes papervegan
Barbara Knipper (19:41):
received a lot of questions a few years ago,
and we were wondering, Why arethey all interested if a paper
is vegan or not? Vegan meansthat we, for example, already,
since 1965 we use synthetic gluefor producing our papers. So the
difference is. And a lot ofother companies, they use animal
(20:04):
glues from Animal Resources, sonot synthetic glues. And that's
why the behavior sometimes isdifferent, and sometimes we
often hear that paper when itgets wet, for example, as a
watercolor paper, it has aspecial smell. That's often
because the sizing is of AnimalResources. So all Hahnemühle
(20:26):
papers are vegan because we onlyuse synthetic glue, no animal
Jane Clauss (20:30):
resources. Interesting. We know that
Hahnemühle has been around for440 years and growing,
obviously, inventor of so manypapers and different types of
papers. Let's talk about one ofthe exciting inventions that the
company has made, Barbara. In1997
Barbara Knipper (20:51):
we have been the inventor of digital fine art
paper range. So what does thatmean? Artists started and they
wanted to create and reproducetheir artworks, which they did
on artist papers. They wanted toreproduce it and sell it, maybe,
or create limited editions. SoHahnemühle invented and produced
(21:15):
paper, artist papers with acoating on it that the ink
doesn't soak into the paper, andthat the colors look perfectly,
nearly like the original. If youhave your artwork reproduced on
Hahnemühle paper, it nearly, itlooks like it's very hard to see
(21:35):
which is the original, which
is the replica. Wow, that'sawesome.
Yeah. So that's where we are,the inventor and known worldwide
as well,
Jane Clauss (21:46):
when we talk about your natural paper line versus
your traditional paper lines, isthere a difference? And what are
the creators saying? They'reprobably really excited about
the new natural line, butthey're still using your
traditional papers as well,because your papers are luxury
and they're wonderful to createon, Rana.
Rana Ardal (22:06):
Yes, the natural line is intended for any kind of
artist, but especially for thosewho are looking for papers that
are made from sustainableresources. Who are interested in
unique papers, maybe which aredifferent because of their raw
materials, and maybe searchingalso for paper alternatives, and
also interested in beingexperimental, because with the
(22:29):
natural line papers, of course,you have different flow of
color, all the all the pigments,they stick in a different way.
So it's also for when you wantto experiment, and when you just
want to try out new kind ofpapers, it's just great. For
example, we also have the pad,which includes only 14 different
(22:52):
watercolor papers, because wehave 44 but 14 different
watercolor papers, and it's afine selection of different
watercolor papers, for example,also including the natural
lines. So with that pad, theartist or the beginner or
whoever can just check what ismost suitable for me and so on.
(23:13):
So having this range is justamazing.
Jane Clauss (23:16):
And I think too, you touched on something. There
it's if you're creating, getyour hands on all the papers,
try them out, see what you like,see what you want to do. You had
mentioned that you're seeinglots of social media posts with
artists and creators using yourpaper for other things that it
(23:38):
wasn't intended to be used for.Give me some of those fun
examples of of what you'reseeing that sort of non
traditional uses for your lineof paper, and the natural line,
Rana Ardal (23:47):
I once had the experience that we have a pastel
paper which has a flocking on,on the paper, on the base paper,
which is really for the pastelpaper technique. And I saw an
artist using watercolor on it. Iwas so like, how can you do
that? I mean, it's not intendedfor that, but there is no limit
at all. And when it comes tonatural line, some first
(24:09):
reaction was also, oh, thesurface is super hard. I don't
know how to handle it. I mean,but then later on, when you see
that, you can scratch on thepaper and get new effects on the
paper, because it has thefeatures that it has. It is
really fun to where you need tobe open for that. Of course, you
need to make the first step andmaybe also think out of the box
(24:33):
and say, Okay, maybe it's a bitdifferent from what I am. The
flow of color. I don't know how.Why is it flowing that way and
not this way. So it is also abit challenging for some people
at the beginning, but now theyare used to it, and it's, I
think it's a mixture of all.
Barbara Knipper (24:49):
Additionally, we have a museum in Berlin,
which is called house this papiis in Berlin, and there we have
a private collection of three.Three dimensional paper art to
promote the visibility of paperas a material. So it's not only
everything about painting. Wealways also look for different
(25:11):
paper artworks, and there arelots of them, but it's really
interesting. And the museum,which is called houses papiers
in Berlin, the the numbersincreased of the visitors, and
they're always fascinated whatpaper can can do.
Jane Clauss (25:26):
Of course, you have a museum, and it is fascinating
at what paper can do as you'rehelping people redefine how they
create consciously, and as youcontinue the legacy of this
amazing company. Barbara, whatkind of impact do you hope that
this new paper has on thecreative world?
Barbara Knipper (25:48):
I would say a range where we will focus on
also in the next few years,because it's getting more and
more important. As Rana said,it's always nice when we are at
exhibitions, for example, at thecreative world, we have always a
part where people can try outpaper, and it's always nice to
see artists, not only thebeginners, also professional, to
(26:12):
try out new papers, andespecially the ones like the
natural line, and then you seetheir face and the smile when
They see how the paper acts andthe color reacts on the paper,
and that's really nice,
Jane Clauss (26:25):
and it's important, too for all of my creative
friends listening. They may havenever heard of Hana mula in 440
years, but now they are, andthis will be something they're
looking out for. Rana, samequestion to you as a product
development as you continue topush the boundaries of this eco
(26:45):
consciousness and sustainabilityin creative papers, how do you
hope to change what's happeningin the creative world with
artists,
Rana Ardal (26:56):
to make everybody more aware of our environment,
to make them aware that we cangive things back, to be creative
in a sustainable way, and alsoto be experimental without
harming anything. So this issomething we are still working
on. We we are already in thepipeline. We have other other
(27:18):
fibers that are sustainable andfast growing. We do our research
and development on that. So weare still very focusing on that
part, and we will continue tofocus on that.
Barbara Knipper (27:31):
We want to inspire people, and we want to
give everybody the feeling thatthat everybody is an artist.
Jane Clauss (27:38):
It could be your hobby. It could be anything you
want it to be to spend one houra day creating anything using
Hahnemühle paper and you aregoing to better for it. Rana,
what's next is there, like amagical paper that you're going
to invent that turns intowildflowers after it's used.
Rana Ardal (27:56):
That would be a good idea. Maybe, as I've said, we we
have new sustainable fibers inour pipeline that we are testing
at the moment, we are in thetesting phase, and other things
that we are developing is also,we always said that, or as
Barbara has mentioned, everybodycan be an artist, and we don't.
We want to take the fear of thewhite sheet from everybody. So
(28:19):
since we have a lot of big padsand sheets and everything for
the professional or ambitionhobbyist. We also went the past
years into also offeringproducts for person who just
want to be creative, who wantswhen he comes home or she just
says, Okay, I had a hard day. Iwant to paint something or
(28:40):
scribble something, whatever. Sowe, in the past years, we have,
for example, launched a bookmarkpad where you can create your
own bookmark. Or we havelaunched round watercolor paper,
which has just a diameter of 13centimeters. So it's not a huge
and amazingly big artwork thatyou need to create. It's okay if
(29:00):
you just create a small thingwhen you can forget time during
that creative time that you arehaving, we have just launched
mini pads. It's called minipads. This is really fun to
have, also the every size, butalso small sizes. Yeah,
Jane Clauss (29:16):
it's accessible to everybody, right? So if you're
you get maybe intimidated by thebig sheet of paper. The mini
pads are going to allow you totake that moment, forget about
time, like you said, Rana, I wasjust listening to this amazing
meditation last night, and itwas, what did you do as a child,
to forget and lose track oftime? And maybe it's creating on
(29:39):
a mini pad. Barbara,
Barbara Knipper (29:40):
yeah, and you can take it everywhere, so you
don't need a big bag oranything. You have these pads
easily carrying with you in yourin your bag, or anywhere. So we
saw this on social media as wellas we have great social media
channels, and we have reallygood feedback from our and. End
users, like artists, and justlaunching the mini pads and also
(30:04):
the bookmark pets. And I thinkthat's something, what
Hahnemühle is special as well.We are very progressive. We are
very good in listening to themarket, knowing, focusing on or
on the artist, on thephotographers. And that's
something what makes, maybe thedifference.
Jane Clauss (30:23):
You're starting a trend. You're starting the
trend, you're making itaccessible. Everybody can do it.
Everybody should do it. I askedthis question of all of my
guests, you will both answer itfor me, Rana, we'll start with
you. What does creativity meanto you.
Rana Ardal (30:41):
Well, for me, creativity is super important.
It's also part of my job,actually. And creativity means
for me, doing or creatingsomething that makes me, as I've
said, Forget time. For example,I paint, and when I paint, I
really forget time. And then Ilook at my watch and say, Oh,
three hours. I mean, where isthe time? And it's a kind of me
(31:03):
time for me, in which I createsomething meaningful for me, or
maybe for other people as well.But creativity is not also
limited to art. In my opinion,it can also help to solve
problems in a creative oreffective way. When you are
creative, and creativity alsohelps me in the job, but also my
(31:26):
personal life, to think outsideof the box, which can be helpful
in many aspects of life.Beautiful,
Jane Clauss (31:32):
Barbara, what does creativity mean to you?
Barbara Knipper (31:35):
For me, it's slowing down because I really
like to paint, I really likeplanting, and I'm slowing down
when I do this kind of as it'stotally different from my job.
And I think it's, yeah, it'srelaxing for me, and it's kind
of a self care as well. It's
Jane Clauss (31:54):
always a self care. And that's why I asked people to
do it for an hour. Give me 20minutes, whatever it is that let
you be in flow and be creative.It's just such a beautiful
moment once you finally realizethat you you are creative.
Everybody is creative in theirown way. For me, when you lose
track of time. Yesterday, I wasstarting on some sustainable
(32:15):
fashion designs, and it was 8amwhen I started. I looked up and
it was 2:15 talk about losingtrack of time the entire day.
Yeah, then it was 7pm and I'mthinking to myself, like, and
it's still light out, so I likethe time just was flying by, but
I was figuring out this puzzleand how to put it together. It
was just me in my own littlehead and just having a moment.
(32:37):
And I feel like you can do thatwith anything, and that's why
I'm so appreciative of what youare doing, providing all these
beautiful papers for everyone inthe world to try their hand at
being creative. If somebody isfeeling inspired, they want to
learn more about your naturalline, your other products, and
about the company's history.Barbara, where can people go to
(32:59):
find you? Website, social media,all the things.
Barbara Knipper (33:02):
Yeah, our biggest base is Instagram. We
have the biggest follower numberon Instagram, and we share all
our new contents. Also good toknow posts, what artists may
have known, but what's about thepaper, about the production,
about us. So social media. LikeInstagram, Facebook, we have
this Pinterest as well. So Iwould happily invite everybody
(33:27):
also to get more professionalinformation on our website as
well and on LinkedIn, for sure.If you have any ideas or would
like to have send us a directmessage or an email
Jane Clauss (33:36):
when we go to the website, if we're looking on
social media, we just look upthe name Hahnemühle.
Barbara Knipper (33:41):
Yeah, it's spelled with u e, H, A, H, N, E,
M, U, H, L, E.com
Jane Clauss (33:48):
I would recommend everybody just practice saying
the name and maybe make up asong to it, and then make that
part of your daily routine,because it really is fun to say,
and it means rooster mill. Andthere's so much more behind Hana
mula that we can all know andlove and get to know and love.
And I think that it's amazing.The paper has been around for
2000 years, starting in ancientChina and now being reinvented
(34:13):
by innovators like you andHahnemühle. To me, it really is
proof that sustainability andcreativity can go hand in hand
for more inspiration. You heardit here first. Hahnemühle.com
they're all over the socials.That's where you need to go,
because remember, your nextmasterpiece might just begin
(34:34):
with a single sheet of paper.Barbara Knipper and Rana Ardal,
thank you for joining us onCreative Living.
VO (34:43):
Live better creatively for more inspiration. Visit
JaneClauss.com, thank you forlistening
Time to tantalize your earbuds with creative makers and
shakers. It's creative living,the podcast with Jane Claus,
Jane Clauss (00:10):
Welcome to Creative living, where we help you live
your most creative life. I'mJane Claus, and as always, I'm
so happy you're here to talkcreativity with me. Now, you
know, I love anything that helpsyou tap into your imagination,
anything to help you be morecreative, get into that flow and
feel that satisfying spark ofmaking something with your own
(00:32):
two hands and your creativemind. I always say, just give me
one hour a day of beingcreative, and you will start to
feel the difference. Some peoplesay it's therapy. Some people
say it's inspirational. And Ireally think creativity just
makes life better. You know, itgives me that sense of
satisfaction that I made itmyself, sewing, specifically
(00:55):
upcycling. So a few weeks ago, Igot to show a collection of my
sustainable designs at a fashionshow, which was super cool to
see my looks walk the runway,plus I got to inspire others
through sustainability infashion. So I'm always thinking
about how creativity andsustainability go hand in hand,
(01:17):
not just in fashion, but in allaspects of life, and that brings
us to today's topic, paper. Yes,paper. I know some of you are
just addicted to paper. I'mlooking at you. Yes, I am. But
I'm not just talking about anypaper. I'm talking about
beautiful, sustainable, artworthy paper that is making
(01:39):
waves in the creative world.Hana mula is headquartered in
Germany, and one of the oldestpaper companies in the world.
They started making paper in1584 that is over 400 years of
producing paper, and today theycreate hundreds of different
(02:00):
types of paper for so many usesin the creative world and
beyond. But today we're talkingabout sustainability artistry
and redefining what paper canbe. So joining me to talk paper
purpose and the power ofcreating sustainability are
Barbara Knipper and Rana Ardalfrom Hahnemühle
Barbara Knipper (02:20):
Jane. Hi. Jane, thank you for having us.
Jane Clauss (02:26):
Here's the thing. Hahnemühle is hard to say, but
it's so much fun to say. I'vebeen practicing it, and I think
everybody should say Hana mulaat least four times a day. Tell
us what Hahnemühle means.
Barbara Knipper (02:38):
Well, you said Hana mula quite good. So it's,
you're nearly perfect. Wepronounce it like Hannah
Mueller. This means Han is therooster and Mueller is the mill.
So together, it's Hahnemühle andHannah. The first part was given
from our first namesake. He wascalled Karl, Hannah, and that's
(03:03):
why the first part of our nameis Hannah. Mueller, as
mentioned, is the mill.
Jane Clauss (03:08):
Mullah is the mill. So you have both been working at
Hahnemühlefor over 20 years eachAm I right about that? Rana,
Rana Ardal (03:17):
yes, I started at Hahnemühle in 2002 it's already
23 years ago, and I started inthe marketing department, but
now I'm the product manager forall the traditional Fine Art
papers that we are producing,and also the segment lead for
the traditional fine art so andit is really fun to work here,
(03:40):
because it's already 23 yearsand it's so creative and we are
developing, we are searching fornew products, and also to be in
the middle of the environmentalfriendly area where we are is
also Very nice, and it is alwaysa pleasure to develop new papers
(04:04):
for the world.
Jane Clauss (04:05):
And you are probably living a healthy life
because of the area that thecompany is situated in. We're
going to get to that in just abit. Barbara, you've been also
with the company for over 20years. So I'm going to kick
things off with a really sillyquestion. Before we get to the
the nitty gritty of all thisamazing work that you're both
doing, you have probably seenmore paper than people have seen
(04:25):
in a lifetime. So I need to knowwhat is your guilty pleasure? Is
it the feel of a perfectlypressed sheet of paper or the
smell of fresh paper? Or maybeyou're just hoarding like one of
those amazing notebook designs.
Barbara Knipper (04:42):
Say at the beginning, when I started with
Hahnemühle, and I heard it'sabout paper, I was like, okay,
paper is not that difficult, andit has not that wide variety.
What's paper? And then you getinto it, and it's huge, really,
huge. Huge application areaswe're talking about, and it's
(05:06):
the love of paper. Like artists,it's something special, and you
get so much back if you talkwith them about paper.
Jane Clauss (05:13):
I'm teasing with my opening question, because we all
have a guilty pleasure when itcomes to the places that we
worked, but because we mentionedthat the company has been around
for over 400 years, Barbara giveus a quick glimpse into the
company's history and how it'sevolved over the centuries. And
(05:34):
I know that that could be anhour and a half long
conversation with that onequestion, but it really and
truly started where you're attoday?
Barbara Knipper (05:42):
Yes, definitely. We're still here at
the production site in Dassel,Germany. We started already
here, 441 years ago, to producepaper. So the paper maker, Mr.
Merton Spies, that's the personwho founded the mill and started
to create paper at thebeginning. As everybody may
(06:04):
know, it's it was most writingpaper. Only people needed paper.
Could read, could write. So itwas very special. It was really
important. And that was thebeginning. So he was allowed to
produce writing paper at thebeginning, and then at the
beginning, it was only handcrafted paper, so it was really
(06:26):
hard work. And until the end ofthe 18th century, the first
paper machines were built andwere used. For example, we have
two machines. We have a phonerim machine, and we have a mold
made paper machine. And in ourmold made paper machine is
something very special, as wehave still a part of the
(06:46):
machine, which still in themachine since 1871 so it's still
running, it's still a part of
machining. Who is still runningsingle paper? Yeah, from 1871
Jane Clauss (06:59):
Yeah. Wow. I wonder who the repairman on that guy
you know? Like, ever called aguy? Like, he's like, I don't
know how to fix it. I wasn'talive.
Barbara Knipper (07:06):
Now we have a huge group of people taking care
of our good machines here,
Jane Clauss (07:10):
like the ghosts that come back, they're like,
let me just show you guys how todo this. No, I'm teasing. I
mean, it's such a rich history,and it's just really and truly
amazing. Rana, there are over10,000 Paper producers and mills
all over the world, and theymake hundreds of millions of
tons of paper a year, fromnotebooks to packaging to fine
(07:32):
art paper to photography paper.Talk a little bit about what
makes Hahnemühle so uniquecompared to all of these other
paper manufacturers when itcomes to craftsmanship and
tradition,
Rana Ardal (07:45):
Barbara was talking about the mold made paper
machine that we are having inthe world. There are only a few
left, four or five in the worldhaving such a mold made paper
machine. We are one of them. Andthese machines are the machines
that are producing papers thatare most close to the handmade
paper. So it's a super specialproduction process that you can
(08:08):
gain by using mold made papermachines. And of course, we have
an experience of more than 441441 years, exactly, years. There
is a huge experience that we arehaving, and also we are really
at the foot of the zollingMountain. The water that we use
for the production of our highquality papers is very pure and
(08:30):
clean spring water. It's alsothe reason why Martin spies
found that this paper millexactly where it is right now.
It is because of the cleanspring water. So this is also
something very special aboutHana mula having that special
water to produce papers. Becausethe more clean, the better the
(08:53):
water is, the better is thepaper. And the thing is, we are
only borrowing the water. We aregiving it back to the nature,
since our history, has alwaysbeen very connected to nature
and its protection, the nature,the sustainability, is in our
DNA. Also the production site isin the middle. We say sometimes
(09:14):
it's in the middle of nowherebecause it's really green. There
are mountains, there's water,there are cows around. So it is
really a very natural area, andand we are borrowing the spring
water. We are using it toproduce our papers, because
water is very essential whileproducing paper, it's up to 80
(09:37):
90% during the process that weuse water and then it it, it
goes back to and when the papergets dry, the water goes back to
the nature without using anychemistry treatment, it can be
given back as it is, becauseeverything is so clean and so
pure. So this is also somethingthat we have the experience. Uh,
(10:00):
the the the raw materials thatwe are using, we are always
using super high quality rawmaterials. It's very important
to us because our papers, theyare acid free, they are vegan,
which is very important to us.They are age resistant. And to
get all these features, we haveamazingly high quality raw
(10:23):
materials, such as the cellulosethat we are using, the cotton
fibers that we are using, but weare also using other fibers that
we might talk about, about thesustainable fibers that we had
launched during the last years.
Jane Clauss (10:37):
Really and truly, you are in a league of your own
when it comes to paper,manufacturing, history, quality,
eco conscious, innovation, so,so many things. And you know,
you you sort of painted thisbeautiful picture of the most
gorgeous landscape of where thiscompany is nestled in, in this
(10:59):
nature conservatory. And it justsounds like you're going to
Wonderland every day, especiallybecause you're using those
natural resources, and you'vebeen doing that for over 400
years. It's really and trulyamazing. And now you're saying,
Rana, that you've introduced anentire line of eco conscious
sustainable papers. Tell usabout that natural line of
(11:22):
papers and what makes it ecoconscious from the beginning to
the end, this specific new linethat you just launched
Rana Ardal (11:29):
with the use of the natural line fibers that I will
talk about, we really focused onvery exceptional and
extraordinary raw materials,these sustainable fibers such as
bamboo fibers, hemp fibers,fibers, agave fibers and sugar
cane fibers. These are fibersthat are gained from very on
(11:51):
demanding, fast growing plantsthat don't need any pesticides.
They require significantly lesswater, and this really helps to
protect the environment ingeneral. In already in 2008 we
started with this sustainablefiber natural line by launching
(12:13):
the bamboo mixed media artistpaper. We got a few awards for
that, because we were the firstin that niche market, in that
artist paper market, to launchsuch mixed media paper, where we
have 90% of bamboo fibers and10% of cotton fibers. And then
(12:36):
we did our researches anddevelopment, and we really
wanted to add new family membersto that natural line. And we
found out that Agave is aperfect fiber for another
watercolor paper for awatercolor application. And
agave was already used by theAztecs and Mayans to make
(12:57):
fabrics, ropes, yarns andcarpets, many, many years ago,
and then from Mexico, that Agavecame over to Africa. And in
Africa it was called the blondegold of Africa, and it is a very
undemanding fiber which reallydoes not need water. And we did
our research on agave, and thenwe did the same with hemp. Hemp
(13:20):
is also a fiber which is alreadyknown about 12,000 years. It was
used in China and Persia, again,to make fabrics and ropes, and
also the seeds were eaten andalso used as medical treatment
and everything but these fibers,they are so strong and that you
can really make paper out of it,but it took us a long time. Of
(13:44):
course, we made our research, wedid production trials and
checked what paper, what kind ofpaper can be done, and then also
sugarcane, our last familymember in that natural line. It
is from a fast growing sugarcaneplant, and it's actually, it's
left over from the sugarproduction process. For us, this
(14:06):
is a very valuable raw materialthat would otherwise be disposed
off by burning, but we are usingit to make paper out
Jane Clauss (14:13):
of it. That's really amazing. And as you're
kind of describing all of thesealternate materials to make the
paper. I'm thinking of you in inresearch and development, and
you've got your lab coat on, andyou're with scientists, and
you're with researchers, andyou're, you know, you're doing
all these different kind ofexperiments to say, Well, what's
going to hold the water colorbetter? What's going to be the
(14:36):
best paper that we can create?Is that what it's like?
Rana Ardal (14:39):
Yeah, it's more or less like that. In a laboratory,
we are producing a small sheetof paper, which we later on make
on the machine, but it is firsttested in the laboratory. We
create a paper by hand, put inthe degree and look how the
ratio should be. When we useagave with cotton, or should we
(15:03):
use agave with cellulose?Because you need to mix it.
Because those sustainablefibers, they are very, very
strong and very robust. And tomake it an artist paper, you
need to mix another material,and we mix it with cotton, but
60 to 70% of the paper is thatnatural line fiber, which is a
sustainable fiber, and we mix itwith the cotton fibers. But this
(15:25):
is, as you said, it's like weare sitting there and making
some tests, and I do paintmyself as well, and so I have
the opportunity to make the testdirectly on that sheet of paper
that we have just created in thelab. And if it's fine, then we
make our first trials on themachine, and then again, test
it, and so on. So it's it's along procedure, but we are very
(15:49):
quick in everything that we do,so and it's really fun, because
we need to adjust here andthere, and then later on, we can
launch a beautiful product.
Jane Clauss (16:00):
Beautiful products when I think about paper, you
know, and I did a little bit ofwork, sort of selling different
types of papers, and that's whenI came to appreciate the texture
of paper. It really is fiberswoven together that you can
manipulate in any way you want,or it'll accept a paint or or
water, or whatever medium you'reputting on it, when you're
(16:22):
creating the papers, and you'refeeling the thickness or the
texture to it, is there acertain standard that you want
to get to, or is there somethinglike with this Agave paper, we
wanted to have this sort oftexture to it, or this thickness
to it, or does it just sort ofhappen? And then the follow up
to that is the differencebetween creating these papers
(16:45):
out of these special materialsversus using traditional wood
pulp. Like, what's the benefit?And obviously we know it's
sustainability is the benefit,but does it work better for an
artist?
Rana Ardal (16:58):
Well, first of all, when we do our trials, our
research on the fibers of the onthe sustainable fibers, of
course, we know that they havespecial features. As I've said,
they are very robust. They arevery strong, and they're quite
hard. And we know that when weare thinking about adding new
products to our range,sustainable range, then we have
(17:20):
in our minds that the grammageshould be this or that. And then
we make our tests. And then whenwe try and see that, it is
really beautiful for watercolorpainting, then we work on that.
Then we say, Okay, this shouldbe a paper for the watercolor
technique, because this, thisAgave fiber is, is perfect for
watercolor. When we make a trialwith the hemp fiber, for
(17:42):
example, and we feel that thisis perfect for a sketch paper,
then we work on that. Then wesay, okay, let's work. Let's
focus on having a hemp paperwhich is more into dry painting
techniques and so on. When wedid it with bamboo, we did our
first trial. We saw, Oh, this isgreat for mixed media. You can
(18:03):
use watercolor on it, acrylic,fine liner, even pastel, if you
like, and for the sugar cane.There again, we saw, this is a
paper rather for the wetpainting technique. Very good
for watercolor, but it's perfectfor gouache. For example, when
we realize that the features ofa fiber is more into this or
that. Technique we work on that.We let it flow a bit. Of course.
(18:27):
We we determine the grammage. Wesay, okay, the grammage should
be rather 300 rather 260 orsomething like that. Or the
color should be a natural white,or rather bright white, whereas
the natural white range israther natural white. So this is
how it works, actually. And thedifference is, we always say,
(18:47):
when you are an artist, there isno wrong, no right. Everybody
has his own, her own taste. Andthe natural line papers, you
need to get used to them. Forexample, on the agave paper,
watercolor paper. Watercolor is,you know, it's, we are very
water and but you can alsoscratch on that paper because it
(19:08):
has that hard surface. And withthe natural line papers, we
really give additional featuresto the artists that they can
choose between all the papersthat we
Jane Clauss (19:18):
have. And I love that you said, it's really up to
the artists or to theindividual, because creativity
is something special to each andevery one of us. So we may
prefer one thing when you hadintended it to be used for, you
know, mixed media. I'm going touse it for something else, which
I think is great. You leave itup to the artist. You talk about
vegan paper. What makes papervegan
Barbara Knipper (19:41):
received a lot of questions a few years ago,
and we were wondering, Why arethey all interested if a paper
is vegan or not? Vegan meansthat we, for example, already,
since 1965 we use synthetic gluefor producing our papers. So the
difference is. And a lot ofother companies, they use animal
(20:04):
glues from Animal Resources, sonot synthetic glues. And that's
why the behavior sometimes isdifferent, and sometimes we
often hear that paper when itgets wet, for example, as a
watercolor paper, it has aspecial smell. That's often
because the sizing is of AnimalResources. So all Hahnemühle
(20:26):
papers are vegan because we onlyuse synthetic glue, no animal
Jane Clauss (20:30):
resources. Interesting. We know that
Hahnemühle has been around for440 years and growing,
obviously, inventor of so manypapers and different types of
papers. Let's talk about one ofthe exciting inventions that the
company has made, Barbara. In1997
Barbara Knipper (20:51):
we have been the inventor of digital fine art
paper range. So what does thatmean? Artists started and they
wanted to create and reproducetheir artworks, which they did
on artist papers. They wanted toreproduce it and sell it, maybe,
or create limited editions. SoHahnemühle invented and produced
(21:15):
paper, artist papers with acoating on it that the ink
doesn't soak into the paper, andthat the colors look perfectly,
nearly like the original. If youhave your artwork reproduced on
Hahnemühle paper, it nearly, itlooks like it's very hard to see
(21:35):
which is the original, which
is the replica. Wow, that'sawesome.
Yeah. So that's where we are,the inventor and known worldwide
as well,
Jane Clauss (21:46):
when we talk about your natural paper line versus
your traditional paper lines, isthere a difference? And what are
the creators saying? They'reprobably really excited about
the new natural line, butthey're still using your
traditional papers as well,because your papers are luxury
and they're wonderful to createon, Rana.
Rana Ardal (22:06):
Yes, the natural line is intended for any kind of
artist, but especially for thosewho are looking for papers that
are made from sustainableresources. Who are interested in
unique papers, maybe which aredifferent because of their raw
materials, and maybe searchingalso for paper alternatives, and
also interested in beingexperimental, because with the
(22:29):
natural line papers, of course,you have different flow of
color, all the all the pigments,they stick in a different way.
So it's also for when you wantto experiment, and when you just
want to try out new kind ofpapers, it's just great. For
example, we also have the pad,which includes only 14 different
(22:52):
watercolor papers, because wehave 44 but 14 different
watercolor papers, and it's afine selection of different
watercolor papers, for example,also including the natural
lines. So with that pad, theartist or the beginner or
whoever can just check what ismost suitable for me and so on.
(23:13):
So having this range is justamazing.
Jane Clauss (23:16):
And I think too, you touched on something. There
it's if you're creating, getyour hands on all the papers,
try them out, see what you like,see what you want to do. You had
mentioned that you're seeinglots of social media posts with
artists and creators using yourpaper for other things that it
(23:38):
wasn't intended to be used for.Give me some of those fun
examples of of what you'reseeing that sort of non
traditional uses for your lineof paper, and the natural line,
Rana Ardal (23:47):
I once had the experience that we have a pastel
paper which has a flocking on,on the paper, on the base paper,
which is really for the pastelpaper technique. And I saw an
artist using watercolor on it. Iwas so like, how can you do
that? I mean, it's not intendedfor that, but there is no limit
at all. And when it comes tonatural line, some first
(24:09):
reaction was also, oh, thesurface is super hard. I don't
know how to handle it. I mean,but then later on, when you see
that, you can scratch on thepaper and get new effects on the
paper, because it has thefeatures that it has. It is
really fun to where you need tobe open for that. Of course, you
need to make the first step andmaybe also think out of the box
(24:33):
and say, Okay, maybe it's a bitdifferent from what I am. The
flow of color. I don't know how.Why is it flowing that way and
not this way. So it is also abit challenging for some people
at the beginning, but now theyare used to it, and it's, I
think it's a mixture of all.
Barbara Knipper (24:49):
Additionally, we have a museum in Berlin,
which is called house this papiis in Berlin, and there we have
a private collection of three.Three dimensional paper art to
promote the visibility of paperas a material. So it's not only
everything about painting. Wealways also look for different
(25:11):
paper artworks, and there arelots of them, but it's really
interesting. And the museum,which is called houses papiers
in Berlin, the the numbersincreased of the visitors, and
they're always fascinated whatpaper can can do.
Jane Clauss (25:26):
Of course, you have a museum, and it is fascinating
at what paper can do as you'rehelping people redefine how they
create consciously, and as youcontinue the legacy of this
amazing company. Barbara, whatkind of impact do you hope that
this new paper has on thecreative world?
Barbara Knipper (25:48):
I would say a range where we will focus on
also in the next few years,because it's getting more and
more important. As Rana said,it's always nice when we are at
exhibitions, for example, at thecreative world, we have always a
part where people can try outpaper, and it's always nice to
see artists, not only thebeginners, also professional, to
(26:12):
try out new papers, andespecially the ones like the
natural line, and then you seetheir face and the smile when
They see how the paper acts andthe color reacts on the paper,
and that's really nice,
Jane Clauss (26:25):
and it's important, too for all of my creative
friends listening. They may havenever heard of Hana mula in 440
years, but now they are, andthis will be something they're
looking out for. Rana, samequestion to you as a product
development as you continue topush the boundaries of this eco
(26:45):
consciousness and sustainabilityin creative papers, how do you
hope to change what's happeningin the creative world with
artists,
Rana Ardal (26:56):
to make everybody more aware of our environment,
to make them aware that we cangive things back, to be creative
in a sustainable way, and alsoto be experimental without
harming anything. So this issomething we are still working
on. We we are already in thepipeline. We have other other
(27:18):
fibers that are sustainable andfast growing. We do our research
and development on that. So weare still very focusing on that
part, and we will continue tofocus on that.
Barbara Knipper (27:31):
We want to inspire people, and we want to
give everybody the feeling thatthat everybody is an artist.
Jane Clauss (27:38):
It could be your hobby. It could be anything you
want it to be to spend one houra day creating anything using
Hahnemühle paper and you aregoing to better for it. Rana,
what's next is there, like amagical paper that you're going
to invent that turns intowildflowers after it's used.
Rana Ardal (27:56):
That would be a good idea. Maybe, as I've said, we we
have new sustainable fibers inour pipeline that we are testing
at the moment, we are in thetesting phase, and other things
that we are developing is also,we always said that, or as
Barbara has mentioned, everybodycan be an artist, and we don't.
We want to take the fear of thewhite sheet from everybody. So
(28:19):
since we have a lot of big padsand sheets and everything for
the professional or ambitionhobbyist. We also went the past
years into also offeringproducts for person who just
want to be creative, who wantswhen he comes home or she just
says, Okay, I had a hard day. Iwant to paint something or
(28:40):
scribble something, whatever. Sowe, in the past years, we have,
for example, launched a bookmarkpad where you can create your
own bookmark. Or we havelaunched round watercolor paper,
which has just a diameter of 13centimeters. So it's not a huge
and amazingly big artwork thatyou need to create. It's okay if
(29:00):
you just create a small thingwhen you can forget time during
that creative time that you arehaving, we have just launched
mini pads. It's called minipads. This is really fun to
have, also the every size, butalso small sizes. Yeah,
Jane Clauss (29:16):
it's accessible to everybody, right? So if you're
you get maybe intimidated by thebig sheet of paper. The mini
pads are going to allow you totake that moment, forget about
time, like you said, Rana, I wasjust listening to this amazing
meditation last night, and itwas, what did you do as a child,
to forget and lose track oftime? And maybe it's creating on
(29:39):
a mini pad. Barbara,
Barbara Knipper (29:40):
yeah, and you can take it everywhere, so you
don't need a big bag oranything. You have these pads
easily carrying with you in yourin your bag, or anywhere. So we
saw this on social media as wellas we have great social media
channels, and we have reallygood feedback from our and. End
users, like artists, and justlaunching the mini pads and also
(30:04):
the bookmark pets. And I thinkthat's something, what
Hahnemühle is special as well.We are very progressive. We are
very good in listening to themarket, knowing, focusing on or
on the artist, on thephotographers. And that's
something what makes, maybe thedifference.
Jane Clauss (30:23):
You're starting a trend. You're starting the
trend, you're making itaccessible. Everybody can do it.
Everybody should do it. I askedthis question of all of my
guests, you will both answer itfor me, Rana, we'll start with
you. What does creativity meanto you.
Rana Ardal (30:41):
Well, for me, creativity is super important.
It's also part of my job,actually. And creativity means
for me, doing or creatingsomething that makes me, as I've
said, Forget time. For example,I paint, and when I paint, I
really forget time. And then Ilook at my watch and say, Oh,
three hours. I mean, where isthe time? And it's a kind of me
(31:03):
time for me, in which I createsomething meaningful for me, or
maybe for other people as well.But creativity is not also
limited to art. In my opinion,it can also help to solve
problems in a creative oreffective way. When you are
creative, and creativity alsohelps me in the job, but also my
(31:26):
personal life, to think outsideof the box, which can be helpful
in many aspects of life.Beautiful,
Jane Clauss (31:32):
Barbara, what does creativity mean to you?
Barbara Knipper (31:35):
For me, it's slowing down because I really
like to paint, I really likeplanting, and I'm slowing down
when I do this kind of as it'stotally different from my job.
And I think it's, yeah, it'srelaxing for me, and it's kind
of a self care as well. It's
Jane Clauss (31:54):
always a self care. And that's why I asked people to
do it for an hour. Give me 20minutes, whatever it is that let
you be in flow and be creative.It's just such a beautiful
moment once you finally realizethat you you are creative.
Everybody is creative in theirown way. For me, when you lose
track of time. Yesterday, I wasstarting on some sustainable
(32:15):
fashion designs, and it was 8amwhen I started. I looked up and
it was 2:15 talk about losingtrack of time the entire day.
Yeah, then it was 7pm and I'mthinking to myself, like, and
it's still light out, so I likethe time just was flying by, but
I was figuring out this puzzleand how to put it together. It
was just me in my own littlehead and just having a moment.
(32:37):
And I feel like you can do thatwith anything, and that's why
I'm so appreciative of what youare doing, providing all these
beautiful papers for everyone inthe world to try their hand at
being creative. If somebody isfeeling inspired, they want to
learn more about your naturalline, your other products, and
about the company's history.Barbara, where can people go to
(32:59):
find you? Website, social media,all the things.
Barbara Knipper (33:02):
Yeah, our biggest base is Instagram. We
have the biggest follower numberon Instagram, and we share all
our new contents. Also good toknow posts, what artists may
have known, but what's about thepaper, about the production,
about us. So social media. LikeInstagram, Facebook, we have
this Pinterest as well. So Iwould happily invite everybody
(33:27):
also to get more professionalinformation on our website as
well and on LinkedIn, for sure.If you have any ideas or would
like to have send us a directmessage or an email
Jane Clauss (33:36):
when we go to the website, if we're looking on
social media, we just look upthe name Hahnemühle.
Barbara Knipper (33:41):
Yeah, it's spelled with u e, H, A, H, N, E,
M, U, H, L, E.com
Jane Clauss (33:48):
I would recommend everybody just practice saying
the name and maybe make up asong to it, and then make that
part of your daily routine,because it really is fun to say,
and it means rooster mill. Andthere's so much more behind Hana
mula that we can all know andlove and get to know and love.
And I think that it's amazing.The paper has been around for
2000 years, starting in ancientChina and now being reinvented
(34:13):
by innovators like you andHahnemühle. To me, it really is
proof that sustainability andcreativity can go hand in hand
for more inspiration. You heardit here first. Hahnemühle.com
they're all over the socials.That's where you need to go,
because remember, your nextmasterpiece might just begin
(34:34):
with a single sheet of paper.Barbara Knipper and Rana Ardal,
thank you for joining us onCreative Living.
VO (34:43):
Live better creatively for more inspiration. Visit
JaneClauss.com, thank you forlistening
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