January 27, 2025 • 37 mins
What if you could turn your creativity into a thriving business? Chloe Winstanley did just that—and her story will leave you inspired to take your own leap!
In this episode of Creative Living with Jane Clauss, Chloe shares how she launched New Zealand's first-ever craft workshop business, Creative Otautahi, and grew it into a six-figure success—all while working part-time. She opens up about conquering imposter syndrome, the financial benefits of craft workshops compared to craft fairs, and how staying adaptable helped her thrive in an ever-changing market.
Whether you're a lifelong crafter or just discovering your creative side, Chloe offers practical and inspiring advice for turning your hobby into a profitable business. From finding affordable venues to preparing unforgettable craft workshops, her insights are a game-changer for anyone dreaming of creative entrepreneurship.
Most excitingly, Chloe is now sharing her tried-and-true strategies in her new online masterclass, “On Your Way to 100K.” This course is designed to help creatives of all skill levels transform their hobbies into thriving businesses, no matter where they’re starting from.
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VO (00:00):
It's time to tantalize your earbuds with creative makers and
shakers. It's creative living,the podcast with Jane Clauss,
Jane Clauss (00:10):
Welcome to Creative living, where we help you live
better creatively. I'm JaneClauss, thank you so much for
joining us today. I am superexcited about today's show
because my guest turned hercreative passion into a thriving
business. I'm talking about asix figure business, but she's
also inspiring you to do thesame. Chloe Gwynn Stanley is
(00:34):
part of a new wave of creativeswho are redefining what it means
to make a living. I know we hearside hustle all the time. Can
you make a living at your sidehustle? We're gonna find out.
But I'm also curious if this newway to make a living is a
millennial thing, or can anyonejump on the bad wagon? I know
(00:55):
we're a lot of creative peopleout there. We make a lot of
things. We do a lot of things.She's gonna answer that if
everybody can do it and a lotmore. Chloe Winstanley has an
incredible story in 2021 shelaunched New Zealand's first
ever craft workshop businesscreative otawi, and just two
years later, she is celebrating100k in business. It's all while
(01:18):
working part time. Now she'staking that knowledge, and she's
bringing it to you on a biggerstage teaching a master class
called on your way to 100k It'sa course designed to help
anyone, no matter what your age,your skill level, turn your
creative passion into a fun,flexible and profitable
business. So I am happy towelcome to the show the amazing
(01:41):
Chloe Winstanley,
Chloe Winstanley (01:43):
hey, Chloe. Hi, Jane
Jane Clauss (01:45):
Chloe, you launched New Zealand's first ever craft
workshop. Business. Creative otatawi, what does that mean?
Chloe Winstanley (01:55):
Creative o tatahi, that is the O tatahi Is
the today or Maori word forChristchurch today, or Maori, is
the is the indigenous populationin New Zealand, and Christchurch
is just where I started. So it'sjust basically the origin story
of my workshops. That is thefirst business that I created,
(02:17):
and that is still running in NewZealand, hosting workshops and
Jane Clauss (02:23):
so creative otahi is the name of your workshop
business. Yes, that's correct.Yeah. So what does it mean that
you started the first ever craftworkshop? How does that get
started?
Chloe Winstanley (02:36):
Um, so basically, it's a lot. The
business structure is a lot likepaint and sip only your you're
offering different kinds ofcrafts. And so I think of it as
like a a multi craft workshopbusiness, which means you're
offering things like PolymerClay, earring making and
(02:56):
terrarium making, and prettymuch anything under the sun that
you can come up with that issomehow related to crafts and
being creative.
Jane Clauss (03:08):
So talk about where you started, because we all have
a craft of choice, like, like,I'm I'm an equal opportunity
crafter. Like, I'll makeanything. I'll make anything
once, but yeah, we always haveone that we prefer. What is your
background? What's your firstcraft? What do you love to make?
Yeah,
Chloe Winstanley (03:26):
so I mean, I'm kind of a multi crafter as well,
and I guess that's why thisworkshop business worked for me.
But at its core, I mostly thinkof myself as a polar Maclay
artist. So that's how I gotstarted, and I a self taught
polymer clay artist. So I gotstarted during the pandemic,
(03:47):
when I had a little baby at homeand everything was locked down,
and I was like, Okay, what am Igoing to do to keep myself sane?
And so I started dabbling withpolymer clay. And so, yeah,
that's, that's what I think ofmyself as when I think about
like, you know, what is my craftand so that's how I got started
with the workshops. Is that sortof just naturally developed from
(04:10):
me making stuff for myself andselling earrings online, and
going to craft fair, selling theearrings, and then eventually
that that kind of just naturallygrew to me teaching other people
how to make earrings. I mean
Jane Clauss (04:23):
so much to talk about here. A lot of a lot of
businesses, a lot of hobbies,were just created during the
pandemic, and baby babiesweren't created during the
pandemic as well. But a lot ofthings changed here we are this
many years later, and I feellike you just like, had enough
guts to say I'm good enough atthis. I'm going to show you how
(04:45):
to do it. When did that flip inyour mind? Because I think a lot
of people may have like, animposter syndrome, like, I'm
really good at XYZ. I don't feellike I can demonstrate or teach
somebody how to do it. And ifyou're a new. Absolutely in, in
polymer clay. When did you go,yeah, I can, I can show you how
to do this.
Chloe Winstanley (05:05):
Yeah. And I mean, imposter syndrome is
massive, and I come across thatheaps with the with my coaching
business, where I engage withother crafters, and they're
like, you know, I love mycrafts, but I could never teach
people. I'm not a professionalartist, but it's like, well, I
was, I was a self taught polymerclay artist, and I was doing it
for like, three months before Idecided, no, actually, I'm going
(05:27):
to give it a go teaching people.And I think the way that I got
over the imposter syndrome, andjust like the general anxiety of
hosting people and being like,the same, like main, you know,
center point of it, and making,like, being responsible for
making sure that they had a goodtime, was that I just started
off small, and so my firstworkshop only had five people,
(05:49):
and I priced it super low, so itwas like, low stakes. And so I
think that's why it worked, wasbecause I just took a really
slow at the start, and justlike, kind of, you know, tried
to stay within my comfort zoneas much as possible, even though
I am naturally an introvert, andso it was already kind of out of
my comfort zone, but I was justkind of like, well, I'm just
going to do it anyway, becauseit feels right and it feels fun.
Jane Clauss (06:12):
Yeah, yeah. I love that you used your compass of it
felt good and it felt right. SoI went with it. And I think
starting small is for anythingis a great idea. When you you
just kept with it. I mean, thedollars and cents and the
commitment and the time at thatpoint in your path or your
(06:33):
journey, did you have anythingto lose? Because, I mean, it's
like, I know you had a new babyat home, your husband at home.
You're you have five people nowyou've got 40 people. You gotta
do the math, right? So you gotyour location, you've got
supplies, you've got your timeplanning. And what do you you
know, what are you chargingpeople? And then what does it
look like on the P and L list,or P and L profit list at the
(06:57):
end of the day? Yeah, so wasthat, that business part of it?
Was it hard for you? Or did youjust go with it felt good. It
felt right.
Chloe Winstanley (07:04):
I mean, it was like the numbers made sense,
because I was making so muchmore than I was making with
craft fairs. With craft fairs Iwas selling, you know, I'd make
a pair of earrings and sell themfor 25 New Zealand dollars,
which is like approximately,like 17 or something, $17 um.
And whereas, with with theworkshops, I was charging people
(07:27):
100 New Zealand dollars perperson, which is like 70 US
dollars. And so, you know, youcan, like, do the math. So it's
like, if I, most of my workshopsthat I did by myself, I hosted
20 people. So it's like 20people at $100 each. That's
$2,000 and then my expenses werenot too much, just because,
like, my biggest expense was thethe extras that I had. Like, I
(07:49):
also supplied food and alcohol,so I'd pay for an alcohol
license, because Polymer Clayis, like, relatively
inexpensive. And I was alsousing affordable community
centers as the venues. So it waslike I was keeping my costs
down, my advertising costs,like, my advertising spend, was
quite low. It was maybe, likebetween 10 and 20% of my
(08:12):
overall, like profit. I thinkbecause the concept that I had
was quite unique, it made itstand out to people with the ads
and so, and also, because thenature of the workshops, it's
like, I would advertise and Iwould reach like one person in a
friend group. And then it's likethe kind of thing that people
wouldn't come to alone. They'dbring like, you know, three or
(08:33):
four friends. So it's like youonly have to reach one person
the friend group for them tothen share it with their whole
friend group. And then, youknow, you've advertised to one
person, but then you get five orsix orders come through. And I
think because I'd, you know, I'dseen that paint and soup was
popular, but I'd also seen thatpeople were getting sick of it,
because it was just like, thesame thing all the time, and
(08:54):
that people wanted differentcrafts. So it's just like
playing into that same idea of,you know, people want something
fun to do with their friends ona Friday, Saturday night. It's
like, low stakes entertainment.They're not really too they
don't care too much about whatthey're making. They're more
there for the experience, yeah,of just having a good time with
their friends and, you know,maybe having a glass of wine at
(09:15):
the same time. So it was like,plus
Jane Clauss (09:16):
drinks are included so why would you not? Yeah,
would you do it once a week?Like, how often, you know, when
she started? Because we're goingto get into why people should
start and who should start. Butwhen you started, you did the
first one had five people.You're like, let me try it
again. Was it weekly, or did it?Was it a slow, you know, haul in
the beginning, I understand whyyou would say, I'm spending two
(09:37):
hours making earrings for 17 USdollars. Like that doesn't make
sense. But when you're able tohang out with people, did it
start slowly, or were they wordof mouth spreading and they all
wanted to be a part
Chloe Winstanley (09:49):
of it? I think at the start it was more like
going from, you know, startingto make Polymer Clay earrings to
eventually hosting 20 people.Maybe they. Took about a month
or a month and a half to kind oflike, I had to spend a lot of
money to get all my materials,like all the investment costs of
making sure that I had enough,like polymer clay tools and mats
(10:11):
and everything, like all ofthose things for 20 people. That
was probably maybe the mostchallenging part, like doing
that with not a lot of like,money to put down on it. Then
when the ball kind of gotrolling, got kind of popular
quite quickly, yeah, by the timethat I was hosting 20 people at
a workshop, it was kind of like,well, this is, this is really
(10:34):
fun. I can make a good amount ofmoney, and it's only like,
maybe, you know, three or fourhours work, yeah, your time,
including, yeah, including thetime to, like, set up and break
down, like, the venue. And so inthat respect, it was just like,
yeah. It just made sense to, youknow, spend my time doing that,
rather than go to craft fairsand try to sell my earrings. I
(10:56):
mean, it was, it's nice to meetother creatives, and I made a
lot of friends, and kind oflike, I felt like a part of the
creative community when I wasdoing craft fairs, but it wasn't
really something that was goingto keep my business afloat. And
so to answer your earlierquestion of how often I would do
it, I had a lot of energy at thestart. Like, this is the thing
(11:16):
about workshops is you it istiring, like it's hard work,
it's fun, but you're also, like,dealing with people a lot of the
time. It can be stressful. But Iwas doing workshops on like,
Friday nights, Saturday nights,sometimes I would do multiple
sessions on a Saturday, so Iwould do one earlier in the day,
and then I would do another onestraight after. But because of
the fact that it's like a, youknow, a girl's night out kind of
(11:39):
thing, you are constrained tothe fact that, you know, people
are probably only going to wantto want to do it on Fridays and
Saturday nights
Jane Clauss (11:45):
you're starting the business. And so you have to get
through all of these hurdles anddo a couple of, you know,
double, you know, double dutydays, and then you figure out
what works. And then you're fivepeople and 20 people, then 40
people. You're figuring out theexpense. You're from New
Zealand. You live in WashingtonState now, but you started this
in New Zealand. Was which Iopened up the show with, that
(12:06):
you started New Zealand's firstever craft workshop business.
Crafting is big all over theworld. We know that. Yeah, yeah.
Obviously New Zealand is a lotsmaller than the United States.
How do you you know if youstarted New Zealand's first ever
craft workshop business. Do youfeel like now in the US you see
other online workshops, like,how does that compare to what
(12:30):
you did then? And what you'reseeing now? Is there still a
market for it?
Chloe Winstanley (12:34):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think
so. I think that you always needto do your research ahead of
time, and you need to be like,Okay, so I'm in you know, X
city. I need to do my researchand see what the competition is.
I need to see if there's anyoneelse out there in my city
running my kind of craftingworkshop. So, like, figure out
what your craft is that you wantto do, and then just do a Google
(12:58):
search to see if anyone else isdoing it. And if someone already
is then it is going to be kindof like, okay, so, you know, are
you going to price yours lowerthan them to are you going to be
able to offer a point ofdifference? You know, what is
going to make people want tocome to your workshop instead of
this other one? So, so you dohave to get a little bit
creative there where it's like,you have to figure out, okay, if
(13:19):
someone else is already doingit. Like, it's like, you have to
kind of think outside the box alittle bit and be like, if
someone else is already doingwhat I'm doing, am I like? I
either have to come up with adifferent craft, or I have to be
able to price it low so thatit's competitive and also make
it stand out. So I think, yeah,having a point of difference is
really important. And I wasquite fortunate with my polymer
(13:42):
clay workshops that I ran in NewZealand, because I was doing
body positive polymer clay andso no, nobody else was doing
that. All right, so
Jane Clauss (13:51):
talk about the in person workshops versus these
virtual workshops. And we knowduring the pandemic, everything
went virtual. So everyonestarted. It changed everything.
It changed meetings. It changedwork. It changed the way we do
TV. It changed the way you makesomething. So all of the virtual
workshops and all of thesedifferent online platforms where
you could learn, you pay asubscription, you watch the
(14:12):
class, you get so many classes amonth, or whatever. Talk about
the difference between the inperson workshops that you do
versus just, hey, listen, I'msnowing outside. I'm cold, I'm
gonna stay at home and take thisworkshop. Is there a difference?
And do you feel like, I mean, Ilove that in person energy that
you get is that, yeah, for you,why do you think,
Chloe Winstanley (14:34):
I mean, I can't I'm not an expert on
online workshops, because that'snot something that I ever did.
But it's a really interestingquestion, especially in a post
COVID universe. And so I thinkthat a big thing about the
workshops that I did was thatpeople really wanted face to
face coming out of the pandemic.People wanted to be around other
(14:58):
people. They want. To be outdoing something they wanted to
be out of the house. I thinkthat if you were looking at
doing online workshops, there'sdefinitely an opportunity there,
and there are different benefitsto it. Because obviously, if
you're doing it online, you'renot constrained to how many
people are in my city. You'resuddenly able to open it up to,
(15:21):
you know, the entire world, andso then, you know, then maybe
you're making a bit more moneyfrom that, but you'd probably
also have to price it lower. Soit's like just a a balancing act
of being like, do I want tohave, you know, 100 people at
this online workshop, if I'mable to get that many sign ups,
and maybe I price it like 70%lower, but I'm still making
(15:44):
money from those extraattendees. Or do I want to do
something in person? So I thinkit's hard to compare. It's
probably just down to like, youknow what you're teaching, is it
like the craft that would workfor that kind of online format?
Those are just the thoughts thatcome to mind immediately when I
think of online workshops.
Jane Clauss (16:04):
The reason why I asked you about in person versus
virtual this entire podcast, theshow creative living is meant to
inspire people to create. Takeone hour a day, create
something, whatever it means toyou, whatever creativity means
to you. Do that for one hour aday, and feel that sense of
satisfaction you get when you doit yourself. Because we get so
(16:25):
wrapped up in everyday life thatI think I want to inspire people
either to attend a workshop thatperhaps they've heard about in
their neighborhood, in theirarea, or start their own
workshop. And maybe, and you canspeak to this, we're not going
to start, you know, selling outthe United Center, which is our
big, you know, where they playbasketball here in Chicago.
(16:45):
You're not going to start.You're, you know, starting out
that big. But I think, can you,can you take a hula hoop and
stand inside of your hula hoop,look around the hula hoop and
see what's available to you? Isthat a good place to start? So,
just in terms of location,
people, community, yeah, um,
Chloe Winstanley (17:06):
I would say, looking at ways to reach people,
you know, like maybe printingflyers and like asking if you
can put them in the local coffeeshop or things like that, and
then looking at local venuesthat are going to be more
affordable for when you'restarting out. So things like,
you know, community centers,even like libraries and things
(17:28):
like that that have meetingrooms, those would probably be
the more affordable options, asopposed to, like commercial
venues. But yeah, definitelyjust like seeing what's around
again, doing the research, doinga Google search, and seeing if
anyone else is already out theredoing what you're thinking of
doing, and just the ability topivot, I think, is really good
(17:50):
with with a workshop business,because, you know, you're being
an entrepreneur, you're you'redoing something that is a bit
unconventional, and So theability to pivot and adapt to
the market and to be offeringsomething that there is a demand
for.
Jane Clauss (18:07):
I brought this up. I'm going to ask you, is this
just a millennial thing, a newway of making a living, or is
this for people who have beencrafting and and sewing and
being creative as a hobby foryears and years and years and
years? I think
Chloe Winstanley (18:20):
it can apply to anybody but the person who
does workshops, they do have tokind of be comfortable outside
of their comfort zone,comfortable trying something
new. Comfortable, you know,taking a bit of a risk, like
when I started out, I didn'treally have any guarantees that
it was going to work, but I hadjust, like tried so many other
(18:41):
different things, and I was, Iwas also at the time, I had a
studio in the city center inChristchurch that I was paying
rent for, and it was like ashop. But then, so I had a shop,
but no one was coming to my shopand buying things because of the
pandemic. So I was like, crap. Ihave to pay rent for this place.
What am I going to do? So it waslike that little fire under my
(19:03):
butt, and I was like, Okay, I'mjust going to try workshops. I'm
going to try events, becausepeople are not coming out to buy
things. And so that was a bigmotivator as well, because it
was like, Well, I have a space.I have a space that's not being
used because no one is cominghere. No one cares about my
shop, but maybe I can fill thisspace with people who want to
(19:25):
come to an event. Yeah,
Jane Clauss (19:28):
alright, so let's talk about diving into the
business. Are we talking aboutmore than just a side hustle, or
can this be a side hustle that'svery lucrative? I
Chloe Winstanley (19:36):
think so. I mean, it was for me, and I was
only ever doing it part timebecause I had a young child, and
she wasn't in school oranything, so it was like, I
always needed to be availablefor her. I would look after her
during the week, and then on theweekends, my mum would help me
look after her, and I would doworkshops in terms of, like, who
can do this, and is it betterfor millennials? I think. That
(20:00):
it's something that anyone cando. It's just you have to be you
have to have that motivation andthat genuine interest to be
like, Okay, I'm going to try it.And if it doesn't work out right
away, like, if I come up with aconcept that people aren't into,
if I don't sell any tickets, Ihave to be able to pivot and
think of something else andadapt to my market and and if
(20:21):
you're not somebody like thatwho's just like, I'm going to
try things, and if it doesn'twork, I'm going to try something
else. Like, if you're, you know,not like that, then it might not
be the right choice for you. Soyou
Jane Clauss (20:31):
talked about burnout. So it's like a chef has
no food in the refrigerator. Afitness expert has no time to
work out. They're burnt out.They don't have time for
themselves. If you're a creativeperson, sometimes your hobby is
just diving in and getting lostin what you're doing creatively
or getting lost in your hobby.How did you stay creative and
avoid burnout? I think
Chloe Winstanley (20:53):
that, to be completely honest, I used to
craft a lot more, for the loveof it, before I started doing
workshops, and even before Istarted selling earrings, I
think the moment I startedtrying to turn it into something
where I was making money, itsuddenly became something that I
wasn't doing just to be creativeand have an outlet like it just
(21:16):
changes. I guess it's still anoutlet. You're still doing
something fun, but as soon asyou're trying to make money from
it, it becomes more of a like,you know, you've got goals.
You've got it's like, goaloriented, and if you're not
meeting and achieving thosegoals, you kind of feel bad
about yourself, at least. That'show it was for me, you know.
Maybe this is, you know, it'sgoing to be different for
(21:36):
everybody, I'm sure. But for me,I think, what? Yeah, once I was
doing it to make money from it,I stopped. Like, you know, I
wasn't going to be just sittingaround making earrings that, you
know, that I would want to wear.I was just like, you know, I was
filling orders, and I was makingearrings then, and then I didn't
want to touch any polymer clayafter that. It's like, I would
(21:58):
make the orders. I would makethe earrings. I would fulfill
the orders send them to beshipped out. And then I didn't.
I just wanted to, like, dosomething completely different
that was related to polymerclay. And I think that that was
similar with the workshops aswell. Like, to be completely
honest, yeah. Like I, once I wasdoing workshops and hosting
people after I'd finish aworkshop, I didn't want to do
(22:18):
anything creative, certainly notwith polymer clay when I was
doing polymer clay workshops,because all of a sudden my
crafting was my work. It wasn'tjust a hobby, which is great
though, I think, because thatwas sort of what I'd been
looking for for like, 10 yearsand trying to figure out. And
never figured out was like, howdo I make money off of my my
(22:39):
hobbies? And and then Yeah, Ifigured it out. And then I
guess, just like, that was thesacrifice,
Jane Clauss (22:46):
but the money was good, and the money was a
driving thing for you, yeah? Andyou hit the milestone of
$100,000 in revenue doing this,yeah, part time. You still got
to have a life. You still got tosee your mom, you still got to
hang out with the baby, and thenyou still got to make money
doing something that you love,and you got to meet new people.
So give us your biggest learningmoment, or best behind the
(23:10):
scenes secret of success. I
Chloe Winstanley (23:13):
think that once I started taking it more
seriously and being moreorganized and doing more prep
like behind the scenes. That waswhen my workshop started flowing
better. I think for the firstsix months, I was sort of like,
I don't know what I'm doinghere. I'm just like, winging so
much of it. I would do minimalprep, and I would just like, go
(23:34):
with the flow, and that workedfor the most part. But then I
would also get super stressedout, if you know that lack of
preparation started to show if,all of a sudden, like the
polymer clay workshops, you haveto have all these jewelry
findings, and you have to besuper prepared and make sure
that everyone has all thematerials that they need and and
(23:56):
to Yeah, to begin with, it'slike every workshop that I did,
I would progress in terms oflike, okay, this is what worked,
this is what didn't. This iswhat I'm going to change for the
future. And so it was like justconstantly learning, which was
really fun in its own way. Itwas a challenge and it could
sometimes it was stressful, butit was also like, Okay, now I'm
(24:17):
motivated to change this for thenext workshop so I don't get
stressed out by this, and soeventually, like I figured out
that I would try and make thingseasier for myself later down the
track by spending an extra hourat the start just making sure
that every you know, everythingwas in place and everybody
already had all of the materialsthat they needed, and that just
(24:40):
made the workshop flow better.
Jane Clauss (24:42):
Yeah, I agree. Prep is important for anything. It's
important anytime. You know, inmy business, if I'm if I'm doing
an interview, if I'm setting upa shoot, if I'm doing a podcast,
I gotta do my research. I gottado the prep. Sometimes we don't
want to, but we do, even ifwe're doing. Live show and
showing, if I'm doing some sortof sustainable fashion update,
(25:04):
and I'm going to show you how toput new sleeves on a t shirt, I
have to have three and four ofthose shirts ready to go do I
want to always do the prep, notreally, but we learned that prep
is the most important thing. Soif we're prepping for that, the
next thing, if people say, Youknow what, I think I want to do
this. I'll go to my communitycenter, I'll talk to my friends,
I'll find a business, I'll go tochurch and see where I can start
(25:28):
the first one. But if you'resaying from a business
perspective, and you want toencourage people to try this,
where do they start?
Chloe Winstanley (25:35):
I think that one of the benefits about doing
workshops is that you can alwaysgage interest engage the market
ahead of time. So if you've gota venue that's kind of flexible,
where you're like, I think thatI want to host this workshop
here on this date, but, but youknow, can you be flexible? Can I
(25:56):
kind of just like, can I book itand pay for it and then get a
refund if I don't go ahead withit, those sorts of things where
it's like, I don't have, I don'thave to commit too much money
ahead of time, just in case Ichange my mind. Then that can be
great, because then you can justtry and go ahead and sell
tickets to it before you've evenbought your materials, because
(26:18):
you're just trying to gageinterest. And so, you know, I'm
going to add, like, let's sayI'm going to advertise this
thing. I'm going to see if I cansell 20 tickets. If I can sell
20 tickets, then cool. I'm goingto go ahead and I'm going to buy
all my materials. Then once Iknow that people are going to be
coming, and I would do that alot as well, if I was trying out
a new a new craft, I would sortof try and sell the tickets
(26:42):
ahead of time and just makesure, and if I wasn't able to
sell enough, then I would justcancel the event and refund any
people that had bought it, andjust be like, sorry, I didn't,
you know I didn't sell enoughtickets for the event to be
worth it, for my like, for mytime to go ahead. And I would
scrap that idea, and then Iwould move on to a different
idea. I
Jane Clauss (27:01):
like it. You have no fear. You're just out there.
You're doing it. And I think yousaid you're in hearted, but
you're out there saying, I'mgonna put this out there. If it
doesn't work, I'm just gonnacome back. I love it. You're
just wide open, and you're like,This is what I'm doing. And if
it works, great, if it doesn't,it doesn't, I mean, a lot of
people are just stuck in fear.And I feel like if you're gonna
start a new business, or you'regonna do a workshop, you have to
(27:23):
be able to take a risk and haveno Yeah,
Chloe Winstanley (27:26):
and I think that it was a good fit for me
because, like, I am a craftyperson. I am a crafter, but I've
also always self identified asan entrepreneur. So it's like,
I'm willing to just give this ago, and if it doesn't work, I'll
just try something else. Like, Ican say it's a different kind of
being a creative it's like, Iwant to come up with a different
idea that might make money. Soyou
Jane Clauss (27:47):
took your creative passion, turned it into a
business. You hit a tremendousmilestone, $100,000 working part
time, doing something that youlove, and now you want everybody
else to do the same, which iswhy we're talking today, because
we want to inspire all of myfriends that are listening to
creative living. You're sharingwhat you discovered on a bigger
(28:09):
stage. You're teaching a masterclass called on your way to 100k
master class. Tell us aboutthat.
Chloe Winstanley (28:17):
The way that I created the course was I tried
to think of all of the thingsthat I would have you know,
everything that I needed toknow, as well as all of the
things that I would have likedto know before I started.
Because when I started, I didn'thave anybody to be my support
person or cheerleader. I wasjust kind of figuring it all out
by myself, completely blind. Andthat inspired me, I guess, to
(28:41):
make the course, because it'slike, Well, I figured out all
the things that I needed to butit was painful. Sometimes I made
some mistakes along the way.There are some things that
happened that, you know, I wouldif I had to do over again, I
wouldn't do there was a lot oftimes where I was, like, unsure
if I was doing the right thing.It's like, usually, like, I
(29:01):
mean, they say that, like, ifyou're questioning yourself,
you're probably doing somethingright. But that's really hard to
kind of, um, push through whenyou're kind of figuring it all
out by yourself as well. So it'slike, I think I just, I liked
the idea of being somebody whocould, you know, be a support
person to other creatives whowere like, you know, I hear what
(29:23):
you're saying, and I feelinspired to try this. I don't
really know what I'm doing withit, and I don't know where to
start. I wanted to try and beable to make it kind of simple.
And so with the master class,it's like, it's all of the
things that you need to knowfrom like the real basics of
branding and creating, like, anew a new brand that people are
(29:47):
going to find interesting andare going to be able to resonate
with and be like, Okay, I seewhat you're doing, and I'm
interested in this, and I wantto come to one of your
workshops. So it's things likebranding and marketing, and then
also things like adverse.Advertising basics of like, you
know, different ways toadvertise, advertising on a
budget, and then also to thingslike trying to figure out, you
(30:09):
know, what your first craft isgoing to be, what you're going
to do if you choose a craft andthen change your mind.
Jane Clauss (30:16):
I think that's cool. Where is the master class
available? How can we find it
Chloe Winstanley (30:21):
so it is. There is information on our
website about it. Our website isdub, dub, dub, dot 100k
artist.com, and that is whereyou can read about about why I
made the master class, and allof the things that are included
in the master class you can geta feel for if you think it might
be the right fit for you. We dooffer money full refund as well
(30:45):
if you do purchase it and thendecide that it's not right for
you, because I don't want to beselling it to anybody who's
like, you know, just buys it onwhim and then is like, why did I
buy this?
Jane Clauss (30:55):
Words of wisdom for somebody who is wanting to start
a craft workshop business?
Chloe Winstanley (31:00):
I think that just being willing, be willing
to give it a go and just trysomething that takes you out of
your comfort zone. I think that,you know, we've talked a lot in
the episode about pivoting andadapting, and I think, yeah,
just being, you know, if you'reprepared to do the work, and you
know it's not going to happeninstantly, it is going to take
(31:20):
some blood, sweat and tears. Butif you're prepared for that,
then I think just giving it ago, doing, you know, your
research for what's going on inyour city, coming coming up with
an idea, finding a venue,running some ads on Facebook,
or, you know, finding organic,local ways to advertise and to
reach people, letting them knowwhat's happening, you know,
(31:40):
flowers in a coffee shop oranything like that. Just, you
know, yeah, touching base withother people who might be
interested. I think just like,the best way to just give it a
go is to just try it and see,you know, see how it goes, and
see how it makes you feel, andthen just run with it if it
feels right.
Jane Clauss (31:56):
That's what I always say. Just get started.
Just start.
Chloe Winstanley (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, just do it like that's, that's
it. Just do it. Do
Jane Clauss (32:04):
the work that you love, put the time and energy
into it, and it will you will berepaid tenfold from your efforts
if you really, truly love it.But none of that happens without
emotions, without running intoclosed doors, without having,
you know, some highs and somereally lows. So it's kind of all
part of life, but it's, it'spart of this creative life that
(32:27):
we live. And you're anentrepreneur, but you also said
you're a creative and I askedeverybody this, so, Chloe, what
does creativity mean to you?
Chloe Winstanley (32:37):
That was a good question. Not really
something I think about a lot.Actually, I think it's something
I take for granted. I thinkthat, and also I've noticed this
with my daughter as well. It'sso funny, like we come into this
world and we're also creative atthe beginning. And this was
something that one person saidto me in a different podcast
interview. He was like, if youask any four year old, five year
(32:58):
old kid, Are you an artist,they're all going to say, yes,
like, every kid is an artist.It's just something that we do.
We're all creative when we'reyoung, and then as we grow up,
we realize that, you know,life's pretty hard. Sometimes we
have to pay the bills. We don'tlike, like being creative
becomes a luxury. Sometimes, Ithink so it's like, yeah, there
(33:19):
are lots of different things.It's a luxury, you know, maybe
I've got, you know, I'm do, Ihave a job and I have kids and I
don't have time to be creative.What are you talking about?
Like, you have those sorts ofpeople. And then at my
workshops, I would also have alot of people who would almost
apologize to me when they werethere, being like, I'm sorry,
I'm not creative. You're gonnahave to help me as I make this
(33:39):
thing. And so it's just, like alot of. One thing that I liked
about the workshops was that Icould kind of empower people and
be like, No, you are creative.Um, everybody, I think, is
creative, but it's just noteverybody has the opportunity to
always, constantly be exploringthat. And so that was kind of
what being creative for me wasit was like, I'm gonna try and
(33:59):
inspire other people to becreative, and I'm going to try
and like, use my enthusiasm tomake other people feel
enthusiastic about what they'redoing. So I think being creative
can, you know, change throughoutyour a person's lifetime, and
it's going to look different oneach different person as well.
Well,
Jane Clauss (34:18):
that is why I ask everybody the question, because
creativity is different forevery single person out there.
And I love when I meet people inthe airport, or when I meet you
at the gym or on the street andthey say, Hey, this is what I
did to be creative. This is whatI did. And it's always
different. It could be, youknow, writing, it could be
(34:38):
reading, it could be cooking,and that is what we touch on
here. And the idea and the goalis to inspire everybody to just
be creative in their own way,even for an hour a day, whether
it's with polymer clay, orwhether it's, you know, doing
something else, or taking aclass or to continue what you
already do creatively. It's animportant subject to talk about.
(34:58):
Adults don't get. To give theglue and the scissors.
Chloe Winstanley (35:04):
What I found is that people love it as well.
They love the opportunity to becreative, and that's why people
come to the workshops, and whythey enjoy the workshops,
because they get to bringsomething, yeah, where they have
permission to kind of be a kidlike and that's how I always
treat the workshops. It's like,I'm just trying to create a safe
space for you to exploreyourself, because we get
Jane Clauss (35:25):
so caught up in the news cycle and the big game and
all the things, and I'm like,well, creativity is right there.
We're all just human beingsliving a life on this plane
together. So you can put yourenergy and emphasis into
whatever you want. To put itinto two today. Make creativity
one of those places, and that'swhat makes me so happy. And
(35:46):
Chloe, I love what you've done.I love what you're doing. I love
that you're inspiring others todo the same. Tell us where we
can find you again. Give us yourwebsite. And is there social
media?
Chloe Winstanley (35:55):
Yep, yep. So the website is dub, dub, dub.
Dot 100k artist.com, andInstagram is a good social media
platform to find me on, andthat's at 100k artist, you know,
contact me, ask me questions.Like, I'm always, I love it when
people are just, like, justcontact me directly. And are
like, you know, I have thisidea. I really want to do this,
(36:17):
but I don't know where to start.Like, that's all that I want to
do, is I just want to helppeople try something and be
successful at it. And if you, ifyou would like to see a
visualization of what a workshopbusiness looks like, then I
would recommend having a look atmy workshop business website,
which is dub, dub, dub, dotcreative otahi, which is spelt
o, t, a, U, T, A, h, i.com andthen you can kind of see, you
(36:42):
know, what a functioningworkshop business, who's, you
know, currently runningworkshops and things looks like,
and you know, maybe it willprovide some inspiration for
what you would want yourworkshop business to look like.
Jane Clauss (36:54):
100k artist.com, okay, friends, you've heard it
here, whether you've beencrafting and creating for
decades, or you are juststarting out. Get inspired.
Replay this interview and thistime, take notes. Chloe, great
information. Thank you so much.What an inspiration to all of
us. Chloe Winstanley, thank youso much for joining us on
(37:17):
creative living.
Chloe Winstanley (37:18):
Thank you so much, Jane, thanks for having me
VO (37:21):
live better creatively, for more inspiration. Visit Jane
clauss.com thank you forlistening. You.
It's time to tantalize your earbuds with creative makers and
shakers. It's creative living,the podcast with Jane Clauss,
Jane Clauss (00:10):
Welcome to Creative living, where we help you live
better creatively. I'm JaneClauss, thank you so much for
joining us today. I am superexcited about today's show
because my guest turned hercreative passion into a thriving
business. I'm talking about asix figure business, but she's
also inspiring you to do thesame. Chloe Gwynn Stanley is
(00:34):
part of a new wave of creativeswho are redefining what it means
to make a living. I know we hearside hustle all the time. Can
you make a living at your sidehustle? We're gonna find out.
But I'm also curious if this newway to make a living is a
millennial thing, or can anyonejump on the bad wagon? I know
(00:55):
we're a lot of creative peopleout there. We make a lot of
things. We do a lot of things.She's gonna answer that if
everybody can do it and a lotmore. Chloe Winstanley has an
incredible story in 2021 shelaunched New Zealand's first
ever craft workshop businesscreative otawi, and just two
years later, she is celebrating100k in business. It's all while
(01:18):
working part time. Now she'staking that knowledge, and she's
bringing it to you on a biggerstage teaching a master class
called on your way to 100k It'sa course designed to help
anyone, no matter what your age,your skill level, turn your
creative passion into a fun,flexible and profitable
business. So I am happy towelcome to the show the amazing
(01:41):
Chloe Winstanley,
Chloe Winstanley (01:43):
hey, Chloe. Hi, Jane
Jane Clauss (01:45):
Chloe, you launched New Zealand's first ever craft
workshop. Business. Creative otatawi, what does that mean?
Chloe Winstanley (01:55):
Creative o tatahi, that is the O tatahi Is
the today or Maori word forChristchurch today, or Maori, is
the is the indigenous populationin New Zealand, and Christchurch
is just where I started. So it'sjust basically the origin story
of my workshops. That is thefirst business that I created,
(02:17):
and that is still running in NewZealand, hosting workshops and
Jane Clauss (02:23):
so creative otahi is the name of your workshop
business. Yes, that's correct.Yeah. So what does it mean that
you started the first ever craftworkshop? How does that get
started?
Chloe Winstanley (02:36):
Um, so basically, it's a lot. The
business structure is a lot likepaint and sip only your you're
offering different kinds ofcrafts. And so I think of it as
like a a multi craft workshopbusiness, which means you're
offering things like PolymerClay, earring making and
(02:56):
terrarium making, and prettymuch anything under the sun that
you can come up with that issomehow related to crafts and
being creative.
Jane Clauss (03:08):
So talk about where you started, because we all have
a craft of choice, like, like,I'm I'm an equal opportunity
crafter. Like, I'll makeanything. I'll make anything
once, but yeah, we always haveone that we prefer. What is your
background? What's your firstcraft? What do you love to make?
Yeah,
Chloe Winstanley (03:26):
so I mean, I'm kind of a multi crafter as well,
and I guess that's why thisworkshop business worked for me.
But at its core, I mostly thinkof myself as a polar Maclay
artist. So that's how I gotstarted, and I a self taught
polymer clay artist. So I gotstarted during the pandemic,
(03:47):
when I had a little baby at homeand everything was locked down,
and I was like, Okay, what am Igoing to do to keep myself sane?
And so I started dabbling withpolymer clay. And so, yeah,
that's, that's what I think ofmyself as when I think about
like, you know, what is my craftand so that's how I got started
with the workshops. Is that sortof just naturally developed from
(04:10):
me making stuff for myself andselling earrings online, and
going to craft fair, selling theearrings, and then eventually
that that kind of just naturallygrew to me teaching other people
how to make earrings. I mean
Jane Clauss (04:23):
so much to talk about here. A lot of a lot of
businesses, a lot of hobbies,were just created during the
pandemic, and baby babiesweren't created during the
pandemic as well. But a lot ofthings changed here we are this
many years later, and I feellike you just like, had enough
guts to say I'm good enough atthis. I'm going to show you how
(04:45):
to do it. When did that flip inyour mind? Because I think a lot
of people may have like, animposter syndrome, like, I'm
really good at XYZ. I don't feellike I can demonstrate or teach
somebody how to do it. And ifyou're a new. Absolutely in, in
polymer clay. When did you go,yeah, I can, I can show you how
to do this.
Chloe Winstanley (05:05):
Yeah. And I mean, imposter syndrome is
massive, and I come across thatheaps with the with my coaching
business, where I engage withother crafters, and they're
like, you know, I love mycrafts, but I could never teach
people. I'm not a professionalartist, but it's like, well, I
was, I was a self taught polymerclay artist, and I was doing it
for like, three months before Idecided, no, actually, I'm going
(05:27):
to give it a go teaching people.And I think the way that I got
over the imposter syndrome, andjust like the general anxiety of
hosting people and being like,the same, like main, you know,
center point of it, and making,like, being responsible for
making sure that they had a goodtime, was that I just started
off small, and so my firstworkshop only had five people,
(05:49):
and I priced it super low, so itwas like, low stakes. And so I
think that's why it worked, wasbecause I just took a really
slow at the start, and justlike, kind of, you know, tried
to stay within my comfort zoneas much as possible, even though
I am naturally an introvert, andso it was already kind of out of
my comfort zone, but I was justkind of like, well, I'm just
going to do it anyway, becauseit feels right and it feels fun.
Jane Clauss (06:12):
Yeah, yeah. I love that you used your compass of it
felt good and it felt right. SoI went with it. And I think
starting small is for anythingis a great idea. When you you
just kept with it. I mean, thedollars and cents and the
commitment and the time at thatpoint in your path or your
(06:33):
journey, did you have anythingto lose? Because, I mean, it's
like, I know you had a new babyat home, your husband at home.
You're you have five people nowyou've got 40 people. You gotta
do the math, right? So you gotyour location, you've got
supplies, you've got your timeplanning. And what do you you
know, what are you chargingpeople? And then what does it
look like on the P and L list,or P and L profit list at the
(06:57):
end of the day? Yeah, so wasthat, that business part of it?
Was it hard for you? Or did youjust go with it felt good. It
felt right.
Chloe Winstanley (07:04):
I mean, it was like the numbers made sense,
because I was making so muchmore than I was making with
craft fairs. With craft fairs Iwas selling, you know, I'd make
a pair of earrings and sell themfor 25 New Zealand dollars,
which is like approximately,like 17 or something, $17 um.
And whereas, with with theworkshops, I was charging people
(07:27):
100 New Zealand dollars perperson, which is like 70 US
dollars. And so, you know, youcan, like, do the math. So it's
like, if I, most of my workshopsthat I did by myself, I hosted
20 people. So it's like 20people at $100 each. That's
$2,000 and then my expenses werenot too much, just because,
like, my biggest expense was thethe extras that I had. Like, I
(07:49):
also supplied food and alcohol,so I'd pay for an alcohol
license, because Polymer Clayis, like, relatively
inexpensive. And I was alsousing affordable community
centers as the venues. So it waslike I was keeping my costs
down, my advertising costs,like, my advertising spend, was
quite low. It was maybe, likebetween 10 and 20% of my
(08:12):
overall, like profit. I thinkbecause the concept that I had
was quite unique, it made itstand out to people with the ads
and so, and also, because thenature of the workshops, it's
like, I would advertise and Iwould reach like one person in a
friend group. And then it's likethe kind of thing that people
wouldn't come to alone. They'dbring like, you know, three or
(08:33):
four friends. So it's like youonly have to reach one person
the friend group for them tothen share it with their whole
friend group. And then, youknow, you've advertised to one
person, but then you get five orsix orders come through. And I
think because I'd, you know, I'dseen that paint and soup was
popular, but I'd also seen thatpeople were getting sick of it,
because it was just like, thesame thing all the time, and
(08:54):
that people wanted differentcrafts. So it's just like
playing into that same idea of,you know, people want something
fun to do with their friends ona Friday, Saturday night. It's
like, low stakes entertainment.They're not really too they
don't care too much about whatthey're making. They're more
there for the experience, yeah,of just having a good time with
their friends and, you know,maybe having a glass of wine at
(09:15):
the same time. So it was like,plus
Jane Clauss (09:16):
drinks are included so why would you not? Yeah,
would you do it once a week?Like, how often, you know, when
she started? Because we're goingto get into why people should
start and who should start. Butwhen you started, you did the
first one had five people.You're like, let me try it
again. Was it weekly, or did it?Was it a slow, you know, haul in
the beginning, I understand whyyou would say, I'm spending two
(09:37):
hours making earrings for 17 USdollars. Like that doesn't make
sense. But when you're able tohang out with people, did it
start slowly, or were they wordof mouth spreading and they all
wanted to be a part
Chloe Winstanley (09:49):
of it? I think at the start it was more like
going from, you know, startingto make Polymer Clay earrings to
eventually hosting 20 people.Maybe they. Took about a month
or a month and a half to kind oflike, I had to spend a lot of
money to get all my materials,like all the investment costs of
making sure that I had enough,like polymer clay tools and mats
(10:11):
and everything, like all ofthose things for 20 people. That
was probably maybe the mostchallenging part, like doing
that with not a lot of like,money to put down on it. Then
when the ball kind of gotrolling, got kind of popular
quite quickly, yeah, by the timethat I was hosting 20 people at
a workshop, it was kind of like,well, this is, this is really
(10:34):
fun. I can make a good amount ofmoney, and it's only like,
maybe, you know, three or fourhours work, yeah, your time,
including, yeah, including thetime to, like, set up and break
down, like, the venue. And so inthat respect, it was just like,
yeah. It just made sense to, youknow, spend my time doing that,
rather than go to craft fairsand try to sell my earrings. I
(10:56):
mean, it was, it's nice to meetother creatives, and I made a
lot of friends, and kind oflike, I felt like a part of the
creative community when I wasdoing craft fairs, but it wasn't
really something that was goingto keep my business afloat. And
so to answer your earlierquestion of how often I would do
it, I had a lot of energy at thestart. Like, this is the thing
(11:16):
about workshops is you it istiring, like it's hard work,
it's fun, but you're also, like,dealing with people a lot of the
time. It can be stressful. But Iwas doing workshops on like,
Friday nights, Saturday nights,sometimes I would do multiple
sessions on a Saturday, so Iwould do one earlier in the day,
and then I would do another onestraight after. But because of
the fact that it's like a, youknow, a girl's night out kind of
(11:39):
thing, you are constrained tothe fact that, you know, people
are probably only going to wantto want to do it on Fridays and
Saturday nights
Jane Clauss (11:45):
you're starting the business. And so you have to get
through all of these hurdles anddo a couple of, you know,
double, you know, double dutydays, and then you figure out
what works. And then you're fivepeople and 20 people, then 40
people. You're figuring out theexpense. You're from New
Zealand. You live in WashingtonState now, but you started this
in New Zealand. Was which Iopened up the show with, that
(12:06):
you started New Zealand's firstever craft workshop business.
Crafting is big all over theworld. We know that. Yeah, yeah.
Obviously New Zealand is a lotsmaller than the United States.
How do you you know if youstarted New Zealand's first ever
craft workshop business. Do youfeel like now in the US you see
other online workshops, like,how does that compare to what
(12:30):
you did then? And what you'reseeing now? Is there still a
market for it?
Chloe Winstanley (12:34):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think
so. I think that you always needto do your research ahead of
time, and you need to be like,Okay, so I'm in you know, X
city. I need to do my researchand see what the competition is.
I need to see if there's anyoneelse out there in my city
running my kind of craftingworkshop. So, like, figure out
what your craft is that you wantto do, and then just do a Google
(12:58):
search to see if anyone else isdoing it. And if someone already
is then it is going to be kindof like, okay, so, you know, are
you going to price yours lowerthan them to are you going to be
able to offer a point ofdifference? You know, what is
going to make people want tocome to your workshop instead of
this other one? So, so you dohave to get a little bit
creative there where it's like,you have to figure out, okay, if
(13:19):
someone else is already doingit. Like, it's like, you have to
kind of think outside the box alittle bit and be like, if
someone else is already doingwhat I'm doing, am I like? I
either have to come up with adifferent craft, or I have to be
able to price it low so thatit's competitive and also make
it stand out. So I think, yeah,having a point of difference is
really important. And I wasquite fortunate with my polymer
(13:42):
clay workshops that I ran in NewZealand, because I was doing
body positive polymer clay andso no, nobody else was doing
that. All right, so
Jane Clauss (13:51):
talk about the in person workshops versus these
virtual workshops. And we knowduring the pandemic, everything
went virtual. So everyonestarted. It changed everything.
It changed meetings. It changedwork. It changed the way we do
TV. It changed the way you makesomething. So all of the virtual
workshops and all of thesedifferent online platforms where
you could learn, you pay asubscription, you watch the
(14:12):
class, you get so many classes amonth, or whatever. Talk about
the difference between the inperson workshops that you do
versus just, hey, listen, I'msnowing outside. I'm cold, I'm
gonna stay at home and take thisworkshop. Is there a difference?
And do you feel like, I mean, Ilove that in person energy that
you get is that, yeah, for you,why do you think,
Chloe Winstanley (14:34):
I mean, I can't I'm not an expert on
online workshops, because that'snot something that I ever did.
But it's a really interestingquestion, especially in a post
COVID universe. And so I thinkthat a big thing about the
workshops that I did was thatpeople really wanted face to
face coming out of the pandemic.People wanted to be around other
(14:58):
people. They want. To be outdoing something they wanted to
be out of the house. I thinkthat if you were looking at
doing online workshops, there'sdefinitely an opportunity there,
and there are different benefitsto it. Because obviously, if
you're doing it online, you'renot constrained to how many
people are in my city. You'resuddenly able to open it up to,
(15:21):
you know, the entire world, andso then, you know, then maybe
you're making a bit more moneyfrom that, but you'd probably
also have to price it lower. Soit's like just a a balancing act
of being like, do I want tohave, you know, 100 people at
this online workshop, if I'mable to get that many sign ups,
and maybe I price it like 70%lower, but I'm still making
(15:44):
money from those extraattendees. Or do I want to do
something in person? So I thinkit's hard to compare. It's
probably just down to like, youknow what you're teaching, is it
like the craft that would workfor that kind of online format?
Those are just the thoughts thatcome to mind immediately when I
think of online workshops.
Jane Clauss (16:04):
The reason why I asked you about in person versus
virtual this entire podcast, theshow creative living is meant to
inspire people to create. Takeone hour a day, create
something, whatever it means toyou, whatever creativity means
to you. Do that for one hour aday, and feel that sense of
satisfaction you get when you doit yourself. Because we get so
(16:25):
wrapped up in everyday life thatI think I want to inspire people
either to attend a workshop thatperhaps they've heard about in
their neighborhood, in theirarea, or start their own
workshop. And maybe, and you canspeak to this, we're not going
to start, you know, selling outthe United Center, which is our
big, you know, where they playbasketball here in Chicago.
(16:45):
You're not going to start.You're, you know, starting out
that big. But I think, can you,can you take a hula hoop and
stand inside of your hula hoop,look around the hula hoop and
see what's available to you? Isthat a good place to start? So,
just in terms of location,
people, community, yeah, um,
Chloe Winstanley (17:06):
I would say, looking at ways to reach people,
you know, like maybe printingflyers and like asking if you
can put them in the local coffeeshop or things like that, and
then looking at local venuesthat are going to be more
affordable for when you'restarting out. So things like,
you know, community centers,even like libraries and things
(17:28):
like that that have meetingrooms, those would probably be
the more affordable options, asopposed to, like commercial
venues. But yeah, definitelyjust like seeing what's around
again, doing the research, doinga Google search, and seeing if
anyone else is already out theredoing what you're thinking of
doing, and just the ability topivot, I think, is really good
(17:50):
with with a workshop business,because, you know, you're being
an entrepreneur, you're you'redoing something that is a bit
unconventional, and So theability to pivot and adapt to
the market and to be offeringsomething that there is a demand
for.
Jane Clauss (18:07):
I brought this up. I'm going to ask you, is this
just a millennial thing, a newway of making a living, or is
this for people who have beencrafting and and sewing and
being creative as a hobby foryears and years and years and
years? I think
Chloe Winstanley (18:20):
it can apply to anybody but the person who
does workshops, they do have tokind of be comfortable outside
of their comfort zone,comfortable trying something
new. Comfortable, you know,taking a bit of a risk, like
when I started out, I didn'treally have any guarantees that
it was going to work, but I hadjust, like tried so many other
(18:41):
different things, and I was, Iwas also at the time, I had a
studio in the city center inChristchurch that I was paying
rent for, and it was like ashop. But then, so I had a shop,
but no one was coming to my shopand buying things because of the
pandemic. So I was like, crap. Ihave to pay rent for this place.
What am I going to do? So it waslike that little fire under my
(19:03):
butt, and I was like, Okay, I'mjust going to try workshops. I'm
going to try events, becausepeople are not coming out to buy
things. And so that was a bigmotivator as well, because it
was like, Well, I have a space.I have a space that's not being
used because no one is cominghere. No one cares about my
shop, but maybe I can fill thisspace with people who want to
(19:25):
come to an event. Yeah,
Jane Clauss (19:28):
alright, so let's talk about diving into the
business. Are we talking aboutmore than just a side hustle, or
can this be a side hustle that'svery lucrative? I
Chloe Winstanley (19:36):
think so. I mean, it was for me, and I was
only ever doing it part timebecause I had a young child, and
she wasn't in school oranything, so it was like, I
always needed to be availablefor her. I would look after her
during the week, and then on theweekends, my mum would help me
look after her, and I would doworkshops in terms of, like, who
can do this, and is it betterfor millennials? I think. That
(20:00):
it's something that anyone cando. It's just you have to be you
have to have that motivation andthat genuine interest to be
like, Okay, I'm going to try it.And if it doesn't work out right
away, like, if I come up with aconcept that people aren't into,
if I don't sell any tickets, Ihave to be able to pivot and
think of something else andadapt to my market and and if
(20:21):
you're not somebody like thatwho's just like, I'm going to
try things, and if it doesn'twork, I'm going to try something
else. Like, if you're, you know,not like that, then it might not
be the right choice for you. Soyou
Jane Clauss (20:31):
talked about burnout. So it's like a chef has
no food in the refrigerator. Afitness expert has no time to
work out. They're burnt out.They don't have time for
themselves. If you're a creativeperson, sometimes your hobby is
just diving in and getting lostin what you're doing creatively
or getting lost in your hobby.How did you stay creative and
avoid burnout? I think
Chloe Winstanley (20:53):
that, to be completely honest, I used to
craft a lot more, for the loveof it, before I started doing
workshops, and even before Istarted selling earrings, I
think the moment I startedtrying to turn it into something
where I was making money, itsuddenly became something that I
wasn't doing just to be creativeand have an outlet like it just
(21:16):
changes. I guess it's still anoutlet. You're still doing
something fun, but as soon asyou're trying to make money from
it, it becomes more of a like,you know, you've got goals.
You've got it's like, goaloriented, and if you're not
meeting and achieving thosegoals, you kind of feel bad
about yourself, at least. That'show it was for me, you know.
Maybe this is, you know, it'sgoing to be different for
(21:36):
everybody, I'm sure. But for me,I think, what? Yeah, once I was
doing it to make money from it,I stopped. Like, you know, I
wasn't going to be just sittingaround making earrings that, you
know, that I would want to wear.I was just like, you know, I was
filling orders, and I was makingearrings then, and then I didn't
want to touch any polymer clayafter that. It's like, I would
(21:58):
make the orders. I would makethe earrings. I would fulfill
the orders send them to beshipped out. And then I didn't.
I just wanted to, like, dosomething completely different
that was related to polymerclay. And I think that that was
similar with the workshops aswell. Like, to be completely
honest, yeah. Like I, once I wasdoing workshops and hosting
people after I'd finish aworkshop, I didn't want to do
(22:18):
anything creative, certainly notwith polymer clay when I was
doing polymer clay workshops,because all of a sudden my
crafting was my work. It wasn'tjust a hobby, which is great
though, I think, because thatwas sort of what I'd been
looking for for like, 10 yearsand trying to figure out. And
never figured out was like, howdo I make money off of my my
(22:39):
hobbies? And and then Yeah, Ifigured it out. And then I
guess, just like, that was thesacrifice,
Jane Clauss (22:46):
but the money was good, and the money was a
driving thing for you, yeah? Andyou hit the milestone of
$100,000 in revenue doing this,yeah, part time. You still got
to have a life. You still got tosee your mom, you still got to
hang out with the baby, and thenyou still got to make money
doing something that you love,and you got to meet new people.
So give us your biggest learningmoment, or best behind the
(23:10):
scenes secret of success. I
Chloe Winstanley (23:13):
think that once I started taking it more
seriously and being moreorganized and doing more prep
like behind the scenes. That waswhen my workshop started flowing
better. I think for the firstsix months, I was sort of like,
I don't know what I'm doinghere. I'm just like, winging so
much of it. I would do minimalprep, and I would just like, go
(23:34):
with the flow, and that workedfor the most part. But then I
would also get super stressedout, if you know that lack of
preparation started to show if,all of a sudden, like the
polymer clay workshops, you haveto have all these jewelry
findings, and you have to besuper prepared and make sure
that everyone has all thematerials that they need and and
(23:56):
to Yeah, to begin with, it'slike every workshop that I did,
I would progress in terms oflike, okay, this is what worked,
this is what didn't. This iswhat I'm going to change for the
future. And so it was like justconstantly learning, which was
really fun in its own way. Itwas a challenge and it could
sometimes it was stressful, butit was also like, Okay, now I'm
(24:17):
motivated to change this for thenext workshop so I don't get
stressed out by this, and soeventually, like I figured out
that I would try and make thingseasier for myself later down the
track by spending an extra hourat the start just making sure
that every you know, everythingwas in place and everybody
already had all of the materialsthat they needed, and that just
(24:40):
made the workshop flow better.
Jane Clauss (24:42):
Yeah, I agree. Prep is important for anything. It's
important anytime. You know, inmy business, if I'm if I'm doing
an interview, if I'm setting upa shoot, if I'm doing a podcast,
I gotta do my research. I gottado the prep. Sometimes we don't
want to, but we do, even ifwe're doing. Live show and
showing, if I'm doing some sortof sustainable fashion update,
(25:04):
and I'm going to show you how toput new sleeves on a t shirt, I
have to have three and four ofthose shirts ready to go do I
want to always do the prep, notreally, but we learned that prep
is the most important thing. Soif we're prepping for that, the
next thing, if people say, Youknow what, I think I want to do
this. I'll go to my communitycenter, I'll talk to my friends,
I'll find a business, I'll go tochurch and see where I can start
(25:28):
the first one. But if you'resaying from a business
perspective, and you want toencourage people to try this,
where do they start?
Chloe Winstanley (25:35):
I think that one of the benefits about doing
workshops is that you can alwaysgage interest engage the market
ahead of time. So if you've gota venue that's kind of flexible,
where you're like, I think thatI want to host this workshop
here on this date, but, but youknow, can you be flexible? Can I
(25:56):
kind of just like, can I book itand pay for it and then get a
refund if I don't go ahead withit, those sorts of things where
it's like, I don't have, I don'thave to commit too much money
ahead of time, just in case Ichange my mind. Then that can be
great, because then you can justtry and go ahead and sell
tickets to it before you've evenbought your materials, because
(26:18):
you're just trying to gageinterest. And so, you know, I'm
going to add, like, let's sayI'm going to advertise this
thing. I'm going to see if I cansell 20 tickets. If I can sell
20 tickets, then cool. I'm goingto go ahead and I'm going to buy
all my materials. Then once Iknow that people are going to be
coming, and I would do that alot as well, if I was trying out
a new a new craft, I would sortof try and sell the tickets
(26:42):
ahead of time and just makesure, and if I wasn't able to
sell enough, then I would justcancel the event and refund any
people that had bought it, andjust be like, sorry, I didn't,
you know I didn't sell enoughtickets for the event to be
worth it, for my like, for mytime to go ahead. And I would
scrap that idea, and then Iwould move on to a different
idea. I
Jane Clauss (27:01):
like it. You have no fear. You're just out there.
You're doing it. And I think yousaid you're in hearted, but
you're out there saying, I'mgonna put this out there. If it
doesn't work, I'm just gonnacome back. I love it. You're
just wide open, and you're like,This is what I'm doing. And if
it works, great, if it doesn't,it doesn't, I mean, a lot of
people are just stuck in fear.And I feel like if you're gonna
start a new business, or you'regonna do a workshop, you have to
(27:23):
be able to take a risk and haveno Yeah,
Chloe Winstanley (27:26):
and I think that it was a good fit for me
because, like, I am a craftyperson. I am a crafter, but I've
also always self identified asan entrepreneur. So it's like,
I'm willing to just give this ago, and if it doesn't work, I'll
just try something else. Like, Ican say it's a different kind of
being a creative it's like, Iwant to come up with a different
idea that might make money. Soyou
Jane Clauss (27:47):
took your creative passion, turned it into a
business. You hit a tremendousmilestone, $100,000 working part
time, doing something that youlove, and now you want everybody
else to do the same, which iswhy we're talking today, because
we want to inspire all of myfriends that are listening to
creative living. You're sharingwhat you discovered on a bigger
(28:09):
stage. You're teaching a masterclass called on your way to 100k
master class. Tell us aboutthat.
Chloe Winstanley (28:17):
The way that I created the course was I tried
to think of all of the thingsthat I would have you know,
everything that I needed toknow, as well as all of the
things that I would have likedto know before I started.
Because when I started, I didn'thave anybody to be my support
person or cheerleader. I wasjust kind of figuring it all out
by myself, completely blind. Andthat inspired me, I guess, to
(28:41):
make the course, because it'slike, Well, I figured out all
the things that I needed to butit was painful. Sometimes I made
some mistakes along the way.There are some things that
happened that, you know, I wouldif I had to do over again, I
wouldn't do there was a lot oftimes where I was, like, unsure
if I was doing the right thing.It's like, usually, like, I
(29:01):
mean, they say that, like, ifyou're questioning yourself,
you're probably doing somethingright. But that's really hard to
kind of, um, push through whenyou're kind of figuring it all
out by yourself as well. So it'slike, I think I just, I liked
the idea of being somebody whocould, you know, be a support
person to other creatives whowere like, you know, I hear what
(29:23):
you're saying, and I feelinspired to try this. I don't
really know what I'm doing withit, and I don't know where to
start. I wanted to try and beable to make it kind of simple.
And so with the master class,it's like, it's all of the
things that you need to knowfrom like the real basics of
branding and creating, like, anew a new brand that people are
(29:47):
going to find interesting andare going to be able to resonate
with and be like, Okay, I seewhat you're doing, and I'm
interested in this, and I wantto come to one of your
workshops. So it's things likebranding and marketing, and then
also things like adverse.Advertising basics of like, you
know, different ways toadvertise, advertising on a
budget, and then also to thingslike trying to figure out, you
(30:09):
know, what your first craft isgoing to be, what you're going
to do if you choose a craft andthen change your mind.
Jane Clauss (30:16):
I think that's cool. Where is the master class
available? How can we find it
Chloe Winstanley (30:21):
so it is. There is information on our
website about it. Our website isdub, dub, dub, dot 100k
artist.com, and that is whereyou can read about about why I
made the master class, and allof the things that are included
in the master class you can geta feel for if you think it might
be the right fit for you. We dooffer money full refund as well
(30:45):
if you do purchase it and thendecide that it's not right for
you, because I don't want to beselling it to anybody who's
like, you know, just buys it onwhim and then is like, why did I
buy this?
Jane Clauss (30:55):
Words of wisdom for somebody who is wanting to start
a craft workshop business?
Chloe Winstanley (31:00):
I think that just being willing, be willing
to give it a go and just trysomething that takes you out of
your comfort zone. I think that,you know, we've talked a lot in
the episode about pivoting andadapting, and I think, yeah,
just being, you know, if you'reprepared to do the work, and you
know it's not going to happeninstantly, it is going to take
(31:20):
some blood, sweat and tears. Butif you're prepared for that,
then I think just giving it ago, doing, you know, your
research for what's going on inyour city, coming coming up with
an idea, finding a venue,running some ads on Facebook,
or, you know, finding organic,local ways to advertise and to
reach people, letting them knowwhat's happening, you know,
(31:40):
flowers in a coffee shop oranything like that. Just, you
know, yeah, touching base withother people who might be
interested. I think just like,the best way to just give it a
go is to just try it and see,you know, see how it goes, and
see how it makes you feel, andthen just run with it if it
feels right.
Jane Clauss (31:56):
That's what I always say. Just get started.
Just start.
Chloe Winstanley (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, just do it like that's, that's
it. Just do it. Do
Jane Clauss (32:04):
the work that you love, put the time and energy
into it, and it will you will berepaid tenfold from your efforts
if you really, truly love it.But none of that happens without
emotions, without running intoclosed doors, without having,
you know, some highs and somereally lows. So it's kind of all
part of life, but it's, it'spart of this creative life that
(32:27):
we live. And you're anentrepreneur, but you also said
you're a creative and I askedeverybody this, so, Chloe, what
does creativity mean to you?
Chloe Winstanley (32:37):
That was a good question. Not really
something I think about a lot.Actually, I think it's something
I take for granted. I thinkthat, and also I've noticed this
with my daughter as well. It'sso funny, like we come into this
world and we're also creative atthe beginning. And this was
something that one person saidto me in a different podcast
interview. He was like, if youask any four year old, five year
(32:58):
old kid, Are you an artist,they're all going to say, yes,
like, every kid is an artist.It's just something that we do.
We're all creative when we'reyoung, and then as we grow up,
we realize that, you know,life's pretty hard. Sometimes we
have to pay the bills. We don'tlike, like being creative
becomes a luxury. Sometimes, Ithink so it's like, yeah, there
(33:19):
are lots of different things.It's a luxury, you know, maybe
I've got, you know, I'm do, Ihave a job and I have kids and I
don't have time to be creative.What are you talking about?
Like, you have those sorts ofpeople. And then at my
workshops, I would also have alot of people who would almost
apologize to me when they werethere, being like, I'm sorry,
I'm not creative. You're gonnahave to help me as I make this
(33:39):
thing. And so it's just, like alot of. One thing that I liked
about the workshops was that Icould kind of empower people and
be like, No, you are creative.Um, everybody, I think, is
creative, but it's just noteverybody has the opportunity to
always, constantly be exploringthat. And so that was kind of
what being creative for me wasit was like, I'm gonna try and
(33:59):
inspire other people to becreative, and I'm going to try
and like, use my enthusiasm tomake other people feel
enthusiastic about what they'redoing. So I think being creative
can, you know, change throughoutyour a person's lifetime, and
it's going to look different oneach different person as well.
Well,
Jane Clauss (34:18):
that is why I ask everybody the question, because
creativity is different forevery single person out there.
And I love when I meet people inthe airport, or when I meet you
at the gym or on the street andthey say, Hey, this is what I
did to be creative. This is whatI did. And it's always
different. It could be, youknow, writing, it could be
(34:38):
reading, it could be cooking,and that is what we touch on
here. And the idea and the goalis to inspire everybody to just
be creative in their own way,even for an hour a day, whether
it's with polymer clay, orwhether it's, you know, doing
something else, or taking aclass or to continue what you
already do creatively. It's animportant subject to talk about.
(34:58):
Adults don't get. To give theglue and the scissors.
Chloe Winstanley (35:04):
What I found is that people love it as well.
They love the opportunity to becreative, and that's why people
come to the workshops, and whythey enjoy the workshops,
because they get to bringsomething, yeah, where they have
permission to kind of be a kidlike and that's how I always
treat the workshops. It's like,I'm just trying to create a safe
space for you to exploreyourself, because we get
Jane Clauss (35:25):
so caught up in the news cycle and the big game and
all the things, and I'm like,well, creativity is right there.
We're all just human beingsliving a life on this plane
together. So you can put yourenergy and emphasis into
whatever you want. To put itinto two today. Make creativity
one of those places, and that'swhat makes me so happy. And
(35:46):
Chloe, I love what you've done.I love what you're doing. I love
that you're inspiring others todo the same. Tell us where we
can find you again. Give us yourwebsite. And is there social
media?
Chloe Winstanley (35:55):
Yep, yep. So the website is dub, dub, dub.
Dot 100k artist.com, andInstagram is a good social media
platform to find me on, andthat's at 100k artist, you know,
contact me, ask me questions.Like, I'm always, I love it when
people are just, like, justcontact me directly. And are
like, you know, I have thisidea. I really want to do this,
(36:17):
but I don't know where to start.Like, that's all that I want to
do, is I just want to helppeople try something and be
successful at it. And if you, ifyou would like to see a
visualization of what a workshopbusiness looks like, then I
would recommend having a look atmy workshop business website,
which is dub, dub, dub, dotcreative otahi, which is spelt
o, t, a, U, T, A, h, i.com andthen you can kind of see, you
(36:42):
know, what a functioningworkshop business, who's, you
know, currently runningworkshops and things looks like,
and you know, maybe it willprovide some inspiration for
what you would want yourworkshop business to look like.
Jane Clauss (36:54):
100k artist.com, okay, friends, you've heard it
here, whether you've beencrafting and creating for
decades, or you are juststarting out. Get inspired.
Replay this interview and thistime, take notes. Chloe, great
information. Thank you so much.What an inspiration to all of
us. Chloe Winstanley, thank youso much for joining us on
(37:17):
creative living.
Chloe Winstanley (37:18):
Thank you so much, Jane, thanks for having me
VO (37:21):
live better creatively, for more inspiration. Visit Jane
clauss.com thank you forlistening. You.
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