November 19, 2025 • 37 mins
In this week’s episode of Creative Magic Club, I’m joined by podcast strategist, world traveler, and host of the top 1% show In My Non-Expert Opinion, Chelsea Riffe. Together we dive into the magic, strategy, and cultural impact of podcasting—especially for creative entrepreneurs who want to build deeper relationships, grow authentic communities, and decenter social media from being the primary source of new clients.
Chelsea shares her journey from corporate burnout to global digital nomad + podcast mentor, how podcasting became her “audio movie” medium of choice, and why long-form storytelling is one of the most potent forms of leadership and activism today.
We unpack:
✨ How podcasting builds trust, intimacy & devoted audiences faster than social media
✨ The surprising psychology behind podcast listeners—and why they convert so well
✨ Why creating “audio movies” is the future of content for creatives
✨ Storytelling as activism, cultural change, and community healing
✨ How to grow your audience without relying on the algorithm
✨ Podcasting as the ultimate networking portal for soul-aligned collaborations
✨ Rebranding, evolving your show, and using your voice as a visionary leader
This is a must-listen if you feel stuck in the social media hamster wheel, want to grow your business through deeper connection, or are craving a creative outlet that feels sustainable, intuitive, and fun.
Connect with Chelsea:
Podcast: In My Non-Expert Opinion
Website: chelseariffe.com
Substack: Slight Turbulence
Instagram + Threads: @ChelseaRiffe
Write a sales post to attract your soul mate client using you astrology chart with my FREE 5-part training series! https://withsarahmac.com/cosmic-attraction-copywriting/
The Cosmic Copy Mastermind is THE place to get the support that will bring your dream of becoming a 6-figure creative to life in 2025 by selling your high-ticket offers with sales copy driven by stories and guided by astrology.
Message me the word MASTERMIND on instagram @sarahmacmagic for the full details.
Loved this episode?! Let’s keep playing together!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Mac (01:43):
What's up?
This is Sarah Mac and welcometo Creative Magic Club.
Together we'll discoverinspirational stories of
creative entrepreneurs livingout their dreams, doing the work
they are most passionate about,and building wealth in magical
and fun ways.
While building a six-fingerincome as a writer and coach,
helping other women to launchtheir dream businesses.
I've connected with so manyincredible people and seen it
(02:05):
proven again and again that youcan add a pride financially
doing whatever it is you arepassionate about.
I am here to sharelife-changing strategies for
mindset, making money, andreaching more people with your
work in a business and lifefilled with creativity, freedom,
and fun.
Hi everyone, welcome back tothe Creative Magic Club podcast.
(02:33):
I'm so excited for our specialguest today.
We have with us Chelsea Reif,who is a world traveler and the
host of the Hit Podcast, in mynon-expert opinion, a top 1% pod
known for bringing transparencyaround business, creativity,
and travel.
She's also a dedicated podcaststrategist helping women take
down the patriarchy one episodeat a time.
(02:54):
And she's an Aquarius Sun,Virgo moon, Virgo rising, and a
6T reflector in human design.
So, hi Chelsea, thank you somuch for joining us.
Hello, I'm so excited to behere.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I can't wait to dive inand get to know you.
Um we're gonna have a reallyjuicy chat today about social
media and podcasting andaudience growth.
(03:17):
So before we dive in to some ofyour wisdom around this, tell
us how did you get here?
How did you end up doing thiswork?
Chelsea Riffe (03:25):
Yes, so I would say I have always been a creator
in some capacity.
Like in my childhood, I wasreading the school news in
elementary school.
I was the in my sorority, I waslike painting all the murals
and walls at my college.
Like I've always lovedexpressing and creating.
And I ended up actually gettingmy master's degree in Chicago
(03:46):
for digital media andstorytelling.
And in that experience, I gotto try on all these different
avenues of do I want to tellstories through audio, video,
photography, etc.
And I tried out several ofthose until I landed on
podcasting.
And there was something veryelectrifying and magnetic about
podcasting that I was like, youcan literally speak and create
(04:07):
an audio movie in a way, in aformat I had re really never
seen before or felt connectedto.
And then once I tried it, I waslike, oh, this is my platform.
So in 2017, I decided like I'mgonna start a podcast.
So I started it.
It was very random.
I was living in Chicago,interviewing anybody I thought
was interesting.
My first interview wasliterally with my chiropractor.
(04:29):
Like, that's how random it was.
I was like, I just want to talkto anybody and anybody I or
anyone I find interesting.
And from there, I was stillworking in corporate America.
I had a job fully in an officein sales, very classic corporate
American, like work nine tofive, skip my lunch break, stay
over time, work on the weekends.
(04:50):
And it really hit me at somepoint that like this is gonna be
the rest of my life.
You know, I'm gonna get 10 daysof paid vacation, maybe extra
time if I become a mom and getMatt Leave.
But like, this is it.
You're just gonna work, work,work, live for the weekends, and
maybe once in a blue moon takea 10-day vacation to Europe.
And that actually like sent meinto a tailspin because I
(05:13):
started future projecting and Iwas like, yeah, it doesn't,
there's no random adult summerbreak.
You don't get like two or threemonths off.
And I was like, holy shit, likeI don't, I don't want to do
that.
So I just decided how can Idevelop a lifestyle or a life
where I'm not involved in thistoxic cycle of like work, work,
work, live for the weekends.
And eventually I was like, Ithink I'm just gonna kind of
(05:36):
tower card moment, burneverything down and like
rebuild.
So I decided in 2019 to leavemy corporate job and I moved to
Australia.
And from there, I embarked onthis whole like eat pray love
journey.
It was during that time in 2020where I started my business
like a lot of owners did duringthe pandemic because I had
nothing to do.
And I was like, anything that Ihave been wanting to work on or
(05:57):
she meing about or dreamingabout, like this is the time.
I had no responsibilities, noone was doing anything, there
was nothing going on.
So I really just laser focusedmy energy on a business.
And so I started my businessand it actually started out as
mindset coaching at first.
And after a year and a half, Iwas just like, I feel like I
could be teaching people adifferent skill set.
(06:17):
And then it just clicked likepodcasting.
Like at that point, I had mypodcast for four or five years,
and I was like, why aren't youteaching people about
podcasting?
So eventually I decided, whydon't we see how that goes?
And it turns out a lot ofpeople want to use their voices,
like you, Sarah.
And it and it, that's what I'vebeen doing since then is
podcast strategy and helpingpeople not just launch and grow
podcasts, but really becomevoices in the space that are
(06:41):
changing culture and becomingincredible storytellers.
Like, I don't want people tojust start podcasts just to like
have another marketing channel.
It's really about changingculture because I do think
podcasts do that.
So now that's what I'm focusedon.
Sarah Mac (06:53):
I love that so much.
And that's so interesting theway that you talk about podcasts
as many movies.
Because it's it's funny for me,like my entry into podcasting,
I guess it was inspired by justbeing fed up with social media,
you know, and like pouring myheart into this content and it
having like a 24-hour lifespanand then just like disappearing
(07:14):
into the void.
And I knew that podcasting hadthis, you know, it had a really
long shelf life.
Like you can create all theseincredible episodes and people
can discover you years from nowand binge all of your work.
And people actually have thatbehavior.
Some people have that behaviorwith social media, you know,
like when you find someone andthen you'll scroll all the way
(07:35):
back and you'll just watch alltheir stuff.
You're like, who is thisperson?
I feel really connected, I wantto learn everything about them.
Um, but you know, like one ofmy Instagram profiles just like
poof disappeared and was liketaken away from me.
And I was like, fuck that.
Like, I want to own my content,I want to own my channel, I
want to own my audience.
And that's really what inspiredme to step into podcasting.
(07:56):
And I think it's yeah, it'scome so naturally to me.
And the longer I do it, I don'tknow, it it's just I've never
like I love it, and I'm justmore and more realizing like
podcasting's the fucking best.
Like it really is, especiallywith my 12th house placements.
I did video for a while, andthen I got long COVID, and that
(08:19):
I was, you know, I just reallywas like, how can I simplify
everything in my business?
So I stopped doing video, and Ithink that just lit my son and
my Mercury in the 12th house upand was like, oh, I can be my
and my little cocoon and my micabout my message and like get it
out there.
Um but yeah, I've had mypodcast.
I started my podcast in 2020,actually.
(08:41):
That was my yeah, that was theboom.
The back all the backburnerprojects got their time in 2020.
Yes.
Um, so I'm curious with yourpodcast, how has it evolved?
Like, is it the same podcastthat you started?
Have you ever like re you know,rebranded it?
Like, what's that journey beenlike?
Chelsea Riffe (08:59):
Oh my gosh, I always make a joke that it's
like the longest relationshipI've ever committed to because
I've had it for so long.
And because of that, it hasevolved like a relationship as
well.
So it actually started out atotally different name.
It was called Oh My Pod.
And that name just came to mefrom a random idea where I
actually was stalking the chartsand looking at the top-ranked
(09:20):
podcasts, and one of them wascalled Pod Save America.
And I was like, Oh, that'sinteresting.
It's obviously a play on words.
And so then I was like, well,what other word can pod
substitute?
And then yeah, like oh my pod.
And so I picked that name and Iran with it for a few months.
And then I was running on pureadrenaline, by the way.
I was like, whoa, we're doingthis, let's go.
(09:41):
I didn't check the name to seeif it existed elsewhere.
I did had no like businessacumen to see, like, is this
trademarked?
I was just like, I'm starting apodcast.
So I did that, and then whathappened was I actually
eventually Googled the name, andI'm like, oh, there's another
podcast that exists that has 800episodes out.
Oh my god.
And obviously they're takingover the SEO, the social
(10:03):
channels, everything.
And I was like, well, this isjust confusing because if you
(12:06):
Google Oh mypod, you're barelygonna see my stuff.
Yeah.
So eventually I was like, weneed to rename it.
And in my non-expert opinion,came from the fact that I had
started a podcast just to haveconversations like this.
I'm a very curious person, Ivalue curiosity and long-form
conversations.
And it was never meant to be aneducational resource or like
(12:28):
you're gonna come here and learnsomething.
And so I was like, I don't wantit to be uh a place where
people are like, oh, I'm alwaysgonna leave with something
educational.
And I have a lot of opinions.
I also will say I didn't feellike an expert in all of them.
And I think there was a littlebit, if I'm being 100% honest
here, a little bit of impostersyndrome saying, like, I don't
want people to come to mypodcast and be like, oh, well,
(12:49):
you're not an expert, so youcan't say that, or you can't,
you know, have this strongopinion if you're not an expert.
And I was like, what if I justaddress it on the nose and call
it in my non-expert opinion?
So it was also a play on wordsof, you know, when a doctor
says, well, in my expertopinion, da-da-da.
And I was like, Well, in mynon-expert opinion, I think
this.
So I went with the name.
And then because of that, alsojust because my lifestyle
(13:10):
changed, right?
I quit my job, I startedtraveling, I started a business.
So through all these phases oflife, the podcast has evolved.
It was heavily focused on likehealth and wellness early on,
then it shifted intospirituality, then it shifted
into entrepreneurship andbusiness.
And now it's a little bit oflike creativity, energetics,
mindset, and business.
And I'm sure it will evolveagain.
(13:30):
But yeah, it has done a lot ofuh a lot of different rebrands
in the last few years.
Sarah Mac (13:35):
But yeah, it's a really smart title because it
means you get to maintain thebrand of your podcast and the
title without having to likeswitch the title, which I know
is it's not the worst thing inthe world to do that, you know?
But I found the same for mypodcast title, Creative Magic
Club, you know, and I'veconsidered rebranding, I've
considered using SEO and thetagline to help ranking and help
(13:57):
grow it.
But I think, and I'm I have umChelsea's chart pulled up.
She's a Gemini mid-heaven, sameas me.
So that makes a lot of sense,you know, and we have that
curiosity and we have thatability to speak on many things.
We like to speak on manythings, you know, there's
probably gonna be a lot ofevolutions.
And um, and what are you whichwhat's your human design again?
Chelsea Riffe (14:22):
Reflector, six-through reflector.
Okay, wow.
Sarah Mac (14:24):
Yeah, and I'm a manifesting generator, so I know
that um I like to switch thingsup and go on random tangents.
Chelsea Riffe (14:32):
Yes.
Sarah Mac (14:32):
So I really like that my podcast name, Creative Magic
Club.
You know, it's got the keywordsin there that really speak to
my audience for my business,which was the intention and the
purpose of the podcast.
But it it just gives me so muchbreadth and room to evolve.
And I was the same as you.
And I think a lot of peoplestart that way where you start
off interviewing people.
And I think this we can kind ofsegue into the next thing that
(14:55):
I want to talk to you about,which is how it's such an
incredible tool for networking.
You know, inviting people ontoyour podcast, it's such an easy
yes.
And it's such a great way toconnect with other people in
your industry where you're, youknow, simultaneously creating so
much value for both of youraudiences.
And I know that that'ssomething that you talk about,
(15:17):
how podcasting really is one ofthe solutions to um, and I love
the phrasing that you use,decentering social media, which
I know everyone in thisaudience, we have a love-hate
relationship with social media,you know, and I try not to
spiral about it because I'm sograteful for the life and the
business business that I've beenable to build as a result of
(15:40):
social media.
And there's so much that I loveabout it, but there are a lot
of, you know, frustrating thingsas a creator and as a business
owner.
And so why don't you tell us alittle bit about how you see
podcasting as a solution todecentering social media, what
that experience has kind of beenlike for you.
(16:02):
And yeah, like what you thinkis really helpful for people to
know.
Chelsea Riffe (16:06):
Yeah.
Well, I think this conceptreally clicked for me when I had
my first course launch.
And my goal in my head waslike, I would be so happy if
three people signed up, five isa stretch goal.
It's my first course ever.
Let's see what happens.
20 people signed up.
And I was like, where are allthese people coming from?
Like, I don't have a hugesocial media following.
At that time, I didn't have anemail list.
(16:26):
And I was like, I genuinelydon't understand.
And then all my podcastlisteners that had been
listening for years were DMingme, being like, Oh my God, I'm
so excited you're launching acourse.
I've been waiting for you tolaunch something.
And then I had this aha momentof like, whoa, people, you can
market to a totally differentgroup of people that are
actually opting into listeningto you.
And that's when my wheelsstarted turning, where I was
(16:49):
like, comparing podcasting andsocial media to me is like
comparing an apple to a waterbottle.
Like they're two totallydifferent things.
And I think that's when Irealized I really need to see
and experiment if podcasting, ifthat was like a one-off thing
that happened and I got lucky,or if this is real and like I
can do it again and again.
And overwhelmingly, theevidence was people are not only
(17:12):
opting into listening to you,right?
They don't hate listening topodcasts.
I don't like randomly look atmy phone and be like, ah, let me
listen to this stupid podcast,right?
Like I have to subscribe, Ihave to listen.
So the opt-in already, whenyou're thinking of it from a
marketing standpoint, is likesomeone's already halfway, if
not all the way down the funnel.
And now by the time they'relistening to you on a 30, 45
(17:33):
minute conversation, they'repretty invested.
So that started to click oflike the investment level from a
listener is just so muchdeeper.
And they're really getting toknow the context and nuance
behind the conversations thatyou're probably trying to have
on social.
So this is where I realize thefrustration with social is that
it's so short form and it has tobe optimized to compete with
(17:54):
thousands of pieces of contentthat it then becomes a
performance.
And I think that that was theswitch for me is like I started
to look at social media as likethis is a stage.
And when I go on stage, I needa costume, I need a script, I
need a set.
Like it's not off the cuff.
There's no, there's no nuance,there's no context.
It has to be very like hookyand engaging.
(18:14):
And that was exhausting for meas someone who does better in
long form.
So when I realized, okay, wait,people are coming to me through
my podcast.
I don't really like socialmedia.
How can I?
But I don't want to get off ofit completely because, for
example, you and I wereconnected, right?
Like we DM'd each other.
I have found out that I'm inChicago right now.
There's people that live inChicago that I wouldn't have
(18:35):
known lived here if I didn'tpost that I was in Chicago.
So I just started to look ateverything a bit differently.
And I was like, podcasting notonly is helping people get so
much more details about who youare, what you do in your belief
system, it's also where they getto know the real you and all
the constraints that you'refeeling of like, oh, character
count limit, video limit, um,yeah, my post got taken down
(18:58):
because I violated a guideline,but they won't tell me and I
can't get in contact withanybody.
Like all that frustration isbecause you're being put in this
really tiny box wherepodcasting, we could talk about
whatever we want for 60 minutes,and it still is really valuable
to someone.
Because even if it's you and Italking about, I don't know,
matcha lattes for an hour.
Well, at least they know welike matcha, that's our fun
(19:19):
thing to do.
Like they're getting to knowthe human.
And now, more than ever, humansare buying from humans when
they know their whole story.
Not that you have a beautifullogo or brand or your feed is
super aesthetic.
They want to know who the humanis.
So that's when I really doubledown on not just podcasting for
my business, but teaching folksthat podcasting can be the
solution.
And now the way I think aboutit is podcasting is like the
(19:43):
iceberg, and that's where allthe content is.
That's where my thoughts are,my deep opinions, my very
contextual layered conversationsgo.
And then social media is thedistribution of the podcast and
they're the ice cubes.
So, like just chipping off atthe iceberg to get the little
pieces of content for socialmedia, that is how I use social
media now.
So almost 95% of my posts in myfeed, if you're reading them,
(20:06):
are gonna be driving to alongborn piece of content,
whether that is my podcast or mynewsletter or my Substack or my
website.
But it is, I my goal is not togrow my social media following.
I don't care to beat thealgorithm.
I don't care to have abeautiful feed because I have
overwhelming evidence thatthat's not where clients convert
and I don't like spending mytime on there.
(20:26):
So I've also reframed it aswell because I was having a hard
time a few months ago where Iwas like, is this like a
necessary evil?
You know, like is this justsomething I have to suck up?
And I'm like, but why?
Like, if I'm feeling that way,then why don't I just get off of
it?
But I think a lot of businessowners have this fear too of
like, if I get off of it, I'mgonna like lose all my clients,
I'm not gonna get any newinquiries.
(20:48):
And I was like, I have tofigure out a way to re-reframe
this.
And so the way I look at it nowis it's like a tool to just
connect with people as a secondinbox or like a text line.
That's literally what DMs are,and sharing bits about my day
behind the scenes so that youget to know the human being
behind the mic on stories.
But other than that, I don'trun like social media campaigns,
(21:08):
I don't do paid ads, I don'thave a graphic designer, social
media manager.
Like it is not the center of myuniverse for so many different
reasons.
And I think the last thing I'llsay too is um knowing the
psychology of how social mediakeeps you addicted is not the
same at all with podcasts.
Like the whole point of asocial media platform is to keep
users on or growth or engaged,and the way they do that is by
(21:32):
constantly rolling out these newfeatures.
So for Instagram, for example,that's why we see like the
bubble on top of our name now.
And now you can like they addedanother font, and now you can
do this thing, and now you canmake AI images.
And it's like, that's not justfor fun.
Like, they need to keep peopleon the platform so that we don't
plateau and just leave.
And once you realize it'spretty much made the same way as
(21:52):
a casino slot machine is made,you can start to be like, is
that really how I want to spendmy time and energy, especially
as a business owner where I havevery limited capacity.
I don't have team members, Idon't have full-time employees,
like I have a very concentratedcapacity.
I am not going to put all myeggs in a slot machine.
I'm gonna put it in a long-formpiece of content where I
actually have more control.
(22:13):
I have very direct data of likewho's listening.
I can see, not only see, I canfeel more confident in what I'm
putting out because I know Idon't have to fit it into a
character count or video limit,et cetera.
So I could talk about this forfive hours, but those are my
initial thoughts aboutpodcasting and social media.
Sarah Mac (22:30):
I just want to pull out some really important points
that you mentioned because evenbefore I had my podcast, I was
creating those more in-depth,longer form pieces of content
because those are the places,like you say, where real
relationships are built.
And yeah, and obviously it gotto the point where I was like, I
had a Facebook group and Iwould do masterclasses in there,
or I would do, you know, like aZoom masterclass, I would do a
(22:53):
lot of live streams, and I stilldo, even though, and I kind of
phased out live streams for abit because they didn't get a
lot of reach, and it's thatgamification, it like tricks
you.
It's like, oh, not a lot ofpeople are watching this.
However, the people that areengaging in your longer form
pieces of content are the peoplethat are gonna buy from you,
you know?
And so it's really important tounderstand the purpose of all
(23:16):
of the pieces of content in yourecosystem.
And again, looking at what hasworked for you is really
helpful.
But if you know you're startingsomething new, taking it from
business owners who haveexperience, I can tell you that
the people who buy my offers areon my email list.
They are listening to mypodcast, they've been through
(23:36):
some of my longer form contentevents, they've watched my live
streams.
And, you know, yes, there arecontent pieces, those like
catchy, you know, virally, hookypieces of content, they can be
really great for getting you infront of new people.
Um, but yeah, you can put a lotof love and heart and energy
(23:57):
and work and money intoproducing a piece of content and
it can fall flat or likedisappear, and it can be very
disheartening.
So, and with we have actuallyquite similar charts.
I've got um, well, obviouslywe've got Pluto and Scorpio,
which is the generationalplacement.
That's the name of my Substackblog blog.
Um, but yeah, we both haveScorpio third house, and third
(24:17):
house, like you know, that'swhere I'm looking for for
someone who's into podcasting,is like, where's Gemini?
What's going on in the thirdhouse?
Like, what is, you know, theplacements around these areas
that are like all aboutcommunication and community.
I see you have some 11th houseplacements as well, but Scorpio
is all about depth, and I I knowthat that's something that
(24:38):
people come to me for, you know.
So I think it's really worthreflecting on what are the
pieces of content that I likecreating.
Like maybe you're an incrediblegraphic designer and you can
like bang out a carousel in 20minutes and you love doing it,
and that works really well foryou on social.
Like, that is not me.
So it's a personal question.
And um, yeah, like I built mybusiness on Facebook writing
(25:02):
like 800-word posts, which Iwould just crank out in like 20
minutes because I'm a writer.
So it is really worthreflecting and just knowing that
there is no one way.
And whenever I'm talking toclients and they're spiraling
about their strategy or socialmedia or whatever, I'm like,
people had businesses beforesocial media was a thing.
(25:24):
You know, at the heart of anybusiness is just human-to-human
conversations.
And the fact is, Instagram hasour attention, and probably a
lot of our clients are on there,and that's why it's worth, you
know, that's why I'm I'm onthere, like it has my attention.
And wonderful things can comeout of that.
So it's such a personalrelationship, but it's so
(25:45):
important to have that clearstrategy and to get to a point
where you know what's convertingfor you, whether that's through
mentorship and trying onsomeone else's strategy, seeing
how that feels for you.
Um, but also we have to beflexible because everything is
changing all the time.
So rather than spiraling andbeing overwhelmed, um, just
(26:08):
remember it's just to have aconversation with a human.
You know, what's one moreplatform I can serve today?
How can I get in front of them?
What feels like the easiest,most fun way for me to do that?
And um, yeah, and to reallytrust, trust your skills and
what you're naturally good at.
So tell me a little bit aboutum what I would love what you
(26:30):
mentioned before we jumpedonline about storytelling as a
form of activism.
And yeah, just tell me moreabout that.
Chelsea Riffe (26:39):
Yeah, so I don't think it's a surprise that the
world feels like it's on fireand I'm American and uh
especially coming back toAmerica after two years.
I forgot to mention I'm adigital nomad, so I'm always
traveling around.
And I haven't been in theStates for a very long time.
And obviously the headlinesjust keep getting, in my
opinion, worse and worse andworse.
(26:59):
And I started to feel veryweird about selling or
storytelling or doing anythingbecause I was like, I made a
comparison.
I was like, it feels like I'mselling cotton candy in the
middle of a war zone.
Like big things are happening,there's bombs being dropped,
there's families being rippedapart, and here I am being like,
hey, I have a course aboutpitching or like launch your
podcast.
And it felt very like fluffyand silly.
(27:22):
And so I just didn't reallymarket my stuff for a few days.
And I started to feel weird oflike, okay, but then when is the
right time?
Like, is there one day where wejust wait for a good headline
and like, okay, well, now I canmarket?
Like, there was no clear pathforward.
And I had a really hard timewith this, and I posted about it
in a community I'm in, andsomeone told me about this work,
(27:43):
I think by her name is likeDeepa Ayer, that is about how
there are roles in an ecosystemwhen we think of social justice
and equity and activism thateveryone plays, and we all can't
be all of the roles at once,and we're not really meant to,
because that's why it's anecosystem.
Like everyone plays their part.
So we have healers, we haveguides, we have the actual
activists that are like thefrontline activists, we have
(28:04):
storytellers.
And when I read that, Iliterally almost broke into
tears because I was like, thatis the truth, right?
I just said the word headlines.
Well, guess what?
Headlines are to stories.
The reason we're all gettingthis information is because
someone wrote a headline and iswriting a story, the news is
telling stories, podcasts aretelling stories.
When I started zooming out, Iwas like, oh my God, like the
(28:27):
fabric of our world and ourculture is made up of stories.
The stories that presidentialcandidates tell to get
themselves elected, the storiesthey tell on podcasts, the
stories that marketingadvertisements, like everything
is a story.
And it really clicked that likemy work is not fluffy or silly
or like, oh my God, come buy myprogram.
My work is teaching people toactivate their voices and become
(28:48):
better storytellers.
So, not just storytelling oflike about my personal life, but
amplifying people's voices.
The conversation we're havingright now, right?
Choosing to have people on yourpodcast or bring them into your
Substack or your Instagram Liveor whatever it is, you're
amplifying other people'svoices.
And so when you start to thinkof activism, usually what
activists want is a new way ofoperating or like a new world or
(29:11):
a new paradigm.
If we want certain headlinesand voices to stop leading the
conversations, well, we need tocrowd them out, right?
They're not just gonna be like,oh, I'm done talking.
I'm gonna go never postanything again.
We just need to take up morespace and become louder.
And I don't mean that in anaggressive brash way of like
middle fingers up, let's go,torches blazing, but like we
(29:34):
need to start showing the worldwe want to live in.
And I remember this quote froma book, I can't remember what
book it was.
Um, it was something aroundlike feminine leadership that's
essentially saying, like, kindof like be the change you wish
to see in the world, but likecreate the utopia of a business
you wish to see in the world.
So if I want a world wherepeople are talking about
leadership in a different wayand showing how they live their
(29:56):
values and operating in a newparadigm, well, then I need to
not only be investing in thosepeople, I need to bring them on
my podcasts, I need to amplifytheir voices, I need to be
talking about these things.
And then my world just lit up.
And I was like, this is how ifyou think of any leader in the
world, when you immediatelythink of a leader, they were
speaking, they were tellingstories.
They go out, they tellspeeches, they they're posting
(30:18):
things, they're sharing.
And I'm like, they'restorytellers at heart.
So this really reframed mymindset where I was like,
storytelling and selling andmarketing your work is not
frivolous.
It's actually like the numberone thing that can change a
culture.
And ever since then, I havefelt even more fired up about
activating storytellers.
Sarah Mac (30:36):
I love that so much.
And yeah, we've been havingthis conversation on the
podcast.
I've been speaking to itbecause I've had so many
conversations with people in mycommunity who are like, I just
feel weird selling right now, orlike I just feel overwhelmed
being on social media.
And it's so true.
Like, I especially when youhave a voice, especially when
(30:56):
you have a platform, you know,and you've built that, or you
have the urge to build that, youhave the desire to build that,
it's the single most powerfultool that we have.
And you saying that just makesme think of every single one of
my clients, you know, like allof the offers that we're we've
been putting together thatthey're selling.
I'm like, the more people thatget to do this work with you,
(31:17):
the more our world will embodythe values that we stand for.
And this was spoken by you as atrue Aquarius son in the sixth
house.
Like, you're revolutionary, dothe damn work, you know, like
show up every day, share yourstory.
It and comes back to you again,that conversation that I
literally built my business on,which is like, how can I serve
(31:38):
one person at a time?
I think we get so overwhelmedand we feel so disempowered,
percival.
Like, just let let's let go ofthe word overwhelm.
That was one of my I alsostarted out as a mindset coach
for my coaching business aftermy copywriting agency.
And that was one of my favoritelessons from my one of my first
coaches, is just be unavailablefor overwhelm because it's
(31:59):
literally a choice, right?
Like when we can't breathe,when we're in a head scramble,
like we are in control of that.
Take a deep breath, tell adifferent story, refocus, do
whatever you have to do to takecare of you and keep putting one
foot in front of the other.
And truly, you know, especiallywhen you have a small business
or you have a high-ticketbusiness model, you're not here
(32:21):
to influence millions and pemillions of people today, maybe
down the line, but with whateveryour reach and your capacity is
today, with the team and theresources and the skills that
you have today, focus on thepeople that you can help and,
you know, share your voice inthe way that feels like it has
meaning and intention andlongevity with your vision for
(32:42):
your business and your work.
I think that's such a powerfulmessage.
So thank you so much forbringing that and all of your
friends.
Chelsea Riffe (32:49):
And I think it's so weird, just to add to that.
I think a lot of times peoplefeel overwhelmed because they're
trying to save the world andthat's overwhelming, right?
Like saving millions andbillions of people, like, of
course you're overwhelmed, andyou're like, I don't have the
bin with their capacity to savethe world, and I don't believe
you should save the world.
I think you should focus onyour corner, your community,
your own orbit, and nurturethose people because that does
(33:12):
have a butterfly effect, right?
It ripples out, and now ifsomeone in your community is
probably gonna go take care ofsomeone else in another
community, and then it just itjust escalates to now that is
the way you start to change theworld is by changing it in your
own neighborhood, whether that'sonline or physical.
Sarah Mac (33:26):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I think one of the The
great things about people likeus is that we are delusional
because we're visionaries,right?
And but I think one of the shthe shadow side of the delusion
is thinking that we have thepower to change the world, you
know?
And I always try and bring myclients back to you like, what
(33:48):
is that tip of the iceberg?
What is that layer of like themost nutritious cream at the
top, the fattiest, densest partof your capability and your
gifts and your abilities?
Like, focus on that.
Focus on what you can do theabsolute best.
And because that is truly gonnacreate the most ripple effects
(34:08):
in your community.
And that even if there arepeople that you're not directly
supporting, other people seeingyou doing that are gonna be
activated to do that forthemselves just by seeing you as
an example.
Chelsea Riffe (34:20):
Oh, a million percent.
I just had someone message methe other day that's like, I've
been listening to your podcastfor like five years.
I've just never reached out toyou or told you.
And I'm like, what?
And I'm like, they and theysaid, like, I've actually been
so inspired.
I've done this thing, I've donethat thing.
And I was like, imagine if Istopped because I didn't have
the validation of numbers,right?
If I was like, oh, onlywhatever, a hundred people
listen per week.
(34:40):
I guess I can't podcast.
It's like I wouldn't be makingthe impact that I have.
And again, I don't, I don'tneed to have a thousand
followers or listeners orwhatever the case is.
And I genuinely think this isbringing it back to social media
for a second.
This is the issue, is socialmedia has numbers.
And so we can be perceived.
And we are such a, at least inAmerica, we're such a country
that's obsessed with metrics andstatus.
(35:01):
Like, how much money do youmake?
What zip code do you live in?
What's your tax bracket?
Like, there's all these numbersthat qualify us.
And so we like adapt that samemodel and put it on social
media.
But with podcasting, I thinkthat's what's so freeing, too,
is it like it equalizeseverybody.
And I don't know if you sawthis, but Spotify tried to roll
out uh a metric system wherethey were gonna show how many
(35:21):
listeners each podcast had.
Right.
There was so much backlashbecause people are like, you are
going to discourage people fromsharing their voice, and you're
actually gonna, it's gonna dothe same thing that it's done in
other communities, where nowthe people that are have the
highest listeners are just gonnaget louder and louder, and now
you're gonna like de discouragepeople from posting or sharing.
(35:41):
And it's the whole beauty ofsocial or excuse me, of
podcasting is that we haveequalized ourselves, and I think
that's really important becausethere's we need to get out of
this mindset that like myfollowing equals my worth, or
what how many listens I havedoes this.
Because, like I just said, if Iwould have stopped podcasting
because my numbers were low, Idon't know the impact I would
(36:03):
have made.
And what a disservice, right?
What a disservice to peoplethat are in your world that
don't get to hear your giftsbecause you're worried about
like numbers.
Sarah Mac (36:11):
Yeah, I love that.
And my favorite thing to remindpeople of whenever you're
getting upset because you don'thave 10 Schooling followers
already, or downloads orwhatever, is like, okay, so you
got 30 downloads of yourepisode, your podcast episode.
Like, imagine 30 people in aroom.
That's a lot of people.
Chelsea Riffe (36:27):
That's a lot of people.
I always say that like, imagine10.
Imagine 10 people coming tosay, hey, I love your outfit or
your work or whatever the caseis.
I'm like, you'd be like, that'sa lot of compliments I got
today, but all of a sudden 10likes or 10 DMs is like, oh, I
don't have enough engagement.
And I'm like, what a warpedworld we've created for
ourselves.
And that's why I refuse to getinvolved in that cycle anymore.
Sarah Mac (36:48):
Yeah.
Mindset is absolutelyeverything when you're growing
online.
So I could continue talking toyou for 10 schooling hours.
Thank you so much for thisawesome conversation.
Can you tell everybody whowants to learn more about you?
Where can they find you?
What have you got going on?
Chelsea Riffe (37:03):
Yes.
Well, we talked about mypodcast.
It's called In My Non-ExpertOpinion.
So that's where I'm definitelyhaving like juicy layered
conversations like this.
And then I have a substackcalled Slight Turbulence where I
write essays and things abouttravel.
And then if you want to workwith me, my website is just
chelsearife.com.
I have different programs tohelp you launch a podcast or
learn how to pitch yourself.
And uh on Instagram atChelseaRife.
If you want to DM me, we canchat there.
(37:25):
And threads, I'm on threads alot.
So you can find me there too atChelsea Rife.
Sarah Mac (37:29):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Chelsea.
Thank you everyone for beinghere.
Please share this episode withsomeone that you think will love
it and go check out Chelsea'swork, and we'll see you next
week.
Thank you.
What's up?
This is Sarah Mac and welcometo Creative Magic Club.
Together we'll discoverinspirational stories of
creative entrepreneurs livingout their dreams, doing the work
they are most passionate about,and building wealth in magical
and fun ways.
While building a six-fingerincome as a writer and coach,
helping other women to launchtheir dream businesses.
I've connected with so manyincredible people and seen it
(02:05):
proven again and again that youcan add a pride financially
doing whatever it is you arepassionate about.
I am here to sharelife-changing strategies for
mindset, making money, andreaching more people with your
work in a business and lifefilled with creativity, freedom,
and fun.
Hi everyone, welcome back tothe Creative Magic Club podcast.
(02:33):
I'm so excited for our specialguest today.
We have with us Chelsea Reif,who is a world traveler and the
host of the Hit Podcast, in mynon-expert opinion, a top 1% pod
known for bringing transparencyaround business, creativity,
and travel.
She's also a dedicated podcaststrategist helping women take
down the patriarchy one episodeat a time.
(02:54):
And she's an Aquarius Sun,Virgo moon, Virgo rising, and a
6T reflector in human design.
So, hi Chelsea, thank you somuch for joining us.
Hello, I'm so excited to behere.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I can't wait to dive inand get to know you.
Um we're gonna have a reallyjuicy chat today about social
media and podcasting andaudience growth.
(03:17):
So before we dive in to some ofyour wisdom around this, tell
us how did you get here?
How did you end up doing thiswork?
Chelsea Riffe (03:25):
Yes, so I would say I have always been a creator
in some capacity.
Like in my childhood, I wasreading the school news in
elementary school.
I was the in my sorority, I waslike painting all the murals
and walls at my college.
Like I've always lovedexpressing and creating.
And I ended up actually gettingmy master's degree in Chicago
(03:46):
for digital media andstorytelling.
And in that experience, I gotto try on all these different
avenues of do I want to tellstories through audio, video,
photography, etc.
And I tried out several ofthose until I landed on
podcasting.
And there was something veryelectrifying and magnetic about
podcasting that I was like, youcan literally speak and create
(04:07):
an audio movie in a way, in aformat I had re really never
seen before or felt connectedto.
And then once I tried it, I waslike, oh, this is my platform.
So in 2017, I decided like I'mgonna start a podcast.
So I started it.
It was very random.
I was living in Chicago,interviewing anybody I thought
was interesting.
My first interview wasliterally with my chiropractor.
(04:29):
Like, that's how random it was.
I was like, I just want to talkto anybody and anybody I or
anyone I find interesting.
And from there, I was stillworking in corporate America.
I had a job fully in an officein sales, very classic corporate
American, like work nine tofive, skip my lunch break, stay
over time, work on the weekends.
(04:50):
And it really hit me at somepoint that like this is gonna be
the rest of my life.
You know, I'm gonna get 10 daysof paid vacation, maybe extra
time if I become a mom and getMatt Leave.
But like, this is it.
You're just gonna work, work,work, live for the weekends, and
maybe once in a blue moon takea 10-day vacation to Europe.
And that actually like sent meinto a tailspin because I
(05:13):
started future projecting and Iwas like, yeah, it doesn't,
there's no random adult summerbreak.
You don't get like two or threemonths off.
And I was like, holy shit, likeI don't, I don't want to do
that.
So I just decided how can Idevelop a lifestyle or a life
where I'm not involved in thistoxic cycle of like work, work,
work, live for the weekends.
And eventually I was like, Ithink I'm just gonna kind of
(05:36):
tower card moment, burneverything down and like
rebuild.
So I decided in 2019 to leavemy corporate job and I moved to
Australia.
And from there, I embarked onthis whole like eat pray love
journey.
It was during that time in 2020where I started my business
like a lot of owners did duringthe pandemic because I had
nothing to do.
And I was like, anything that Ihave been wanting to work on or
(05:57):
she meing about or dreamingabout, like this is the time.
I had no responsibilities, noone was doing anything, there
was nothing going on.
So I really just laser focusedmy energy on a business.
And so I started my businessand it actually started out as
mindset coaching at first.
And after a year and a half, Iwas just like, I feel like I
could be teaching people adifferent skill set.
(06:17):
And then it just clicked likepodcasting.
Like at that point, I had mypodcast for four or five years,
and I was like, why aren't youteaching people about
podcasting?
So eventually I decided, whydon't we see how that goes?
And it turns out a lot ofpeople want to use their voices,
like you, Sarah.
And it and it, that's what I'vebeen doing since then is
podcast strategy and helpingpeople not just launch and grow
podcasts, but really becomevoices in the space that are
(06:41):
changing culture and becomingincredible storytellers.
Like, I don't want people tojust start podcasts just to like
have another marketing channel.
It's really about changingculture because I do think
podcasts do that.
So now that's what I'm focusedon.
Sarah Mac (06:53):
I love that so much.
And that's so interesting theway that you talk about podcasts
as many movies.
Because it's it's funny for me,like my entry into podcasting,
I guess it was inspired by justbeing fed up with social media,
you know, and like pouring myheart into this content and it
having like a 24-hour lifespanand then just like disappearing
(07:14):
into the void.
And I knew that podcasting hadthis, you know, it had a really
long shelf life.
Like you can create all theseincredible episodes and people
can discover you years from nowand binge all of your work.
And people actually have thatbehavior.
Some people have that behaviorwith social media, you know,
like when you find someone andthen you'll scroll all the way
(07:35):
back and you'll just watch alltheir stuff.
You're like, who is thisperson?
I feel really connected, I wantto learn everything about them.
Um, but you know, like one ofmy Instagram profiles just like
poof disappeared and was liketaken away from me.
And I was like, fuck that.
Like, I want to own my content,I want to own my channel, I
want to own my audience.
And that's really what inspiredme to step into podcasting.
(07:56):
And I think it's yeah, it'scome so naturally to me.
And the longer I do it, I don'tknow, it it's just I've never
like I love it, and I'm justmore and more realizing like
podcasting's the fucking best.
Like it really is, especiallywith my 12th house placements.
I did video for a while, andthen I got long COVID, and that
(08:19):
I was, you know, I just reallywas like, how can I simplify
everything in my business?
So I stopped doing video, and Ithink that just lit my son and
my Mercury in the 12th house upand was like, oh, I can be my
and my little cocoon and my micabout my message and like get it
out there.
Um but yeah, I've had mypodcast.
I started my podcast in 2020,actually.
(08:41):
That was my yeah, that was theboom.
The back all the backburnerprojects got their time in 2020.
Yes.
Um, so I'm curious with yourpodcast, how has it evolved?
Like, is it the same podcastthat you started?
Have you ever like re you know,rebranded it?
Like, what's that journey beenlike?
Chelsea Riffe (08:59):
Oh my gosh, I always make a joke that it's
like the longest relationshipI've ever committed to because
I've had it for so long.
And because of that, it hasevolved like a relationship as
well.
So it actually started out atotally different name.
It was called Oh My Pod.
And that name just came to mefrom a random idea where I
actually was stalking the chartsand looking at the top-ranked
(09:20):
podcasts, and one of them wascalled Pod Save America.
And I was like, Oh, that'sinteresting.
It's obviously a play on words.
And so then I was like, well,what other word can pod
substitute?
And then yeah, like oh my pod.
And so I picked that name and Iran with it for a few months.
And then I was running on pureadrenaline, by the way.
I was like, whoa, we're doingthis, let's go.
(09:41):
I didn't check the name to seeif it existed elsewhere.
I did had no like businessacumen to see, like, is this
trademarked?
I was just like, I'm starting apodcast.
So I did that, and then whathappened was I actually
eventually Googled the name, andI'm like, oh, there's another
podcast that exists that has 800episodes out.
Oh my god.
And obviously they're takingover the SEO, the social
(10:03):
channels, everything.
And I was like, well, this isjust confusing because if you
(12:06):
Google Oh mypod, you're barelygonna see my stuff.
Yeah.
So eventually I was like, weneed to rename it.
And in my non-expert opinion,came from the fact that I had
started a podcast just to haveconversations like this.
I'm a very curious person, Ivalue curiosity and long-form
conversations.
And it was never meant to be aneducational resource or like
(12:28):
you're gonna come here and learnsomething.
And so I was like, I don't wantit to be uh a place where
people are like, oh, I'm alwaysgonna leave with something
educational.
And I have a lot of opinions.
I also will say I didn't feellike an expert in all of them.
And I think there was a littlebit, if I'm being 100% honest
here, a little bit of impostersyndrome saying, like, I don't
want people to come to mypodcast and be like, oh, well,
(12:49):
you're not an expert, so youcan't say that, or you can't,
you know, have this strongopinion if you're not an expert.
And I was like, what if I justaddress it on the nose and call
it in my non-expert opinion?
So it was also a play on wordsof, you know, when a doctor
says, well, in my expertopinion, da-da-da.
And I was like, Well, in mynon-expert opinion, I think
this.
So I went with the name.
And then because of that, alsojust because my lifestyle
(13:10):
changed, right?
I quit my job, I startedtraveling, I started a business.
So through all these phases oflife, the podcast has evolved.
It was heavily focused on likehealth and wellness early on,
then it shifted intospirituality, then it shifted
into entrepreneurship andbusiness.
And now it's a little bit oflike creativity, energetics,
mindset, and business.
And I'm sure it will evolveagain.
(13:30):
But yeah, it has done a lot ofuh a lot of different rebrands
in the last few years.
Sarah Mac (13:35):
But yeah, it's a really smart title because it
means you get to maintain thebrand of your podcast and the
title without having to likeswitch the title, which I know
is it's not the worst thing inthe world to do that, you know?
But I found the same for mypodcast title, Creative Magic
Club, you know, and I'veconsidered rebranding, I've
considered using SEO and thetagline to help ranking and help
(13:57):
grow it.
But I think, and I'm I have umChelsea's chart pulled up.
She's a Gemini mid-heaven, sameas me.
So that makes a lot of sense,you know, and we have that
curiosity and we have thatability to speak on many things.
We like to speak on manythings, you know, there's
probably gonna be a lot ofevolutions.
And um, and what are you whichwhat's your human design again?
Chelsea Riffe (14:22):
Reflector, six-through reflector.
Okay, wow.
Sarah Mac (14:24):
Yeah, and I'm a manifesting generator, so I know
that um I like to switch thingsup and go on random tangents.
Chelsea Riffe (14:32):
Yes.
Sarah Mac (14:32):
So I really like that my podcast name, Creative Magic
Club.
You know, it's got the keywordsin there that really speak to
my audience for my business,which was the intention and the
purpose of the podcast.
But it it just gives me so muchbreadth and room to evolve.
And I was the same as you.
And I think a lot of peoplestart that way where you start
off interviewing people.
And I think this we can kind ofsegue into the next thing that
(14:55):
I want to talk to you about,which is how it's such an
incredible tool for networking.
You know, inviting people ontoyour podcast, it's such an easy
yes.
And it's such a great way toconnect with other people in
your industry where you're, youknow, simultaneously creating so
much value for both of youraudiences.
And I know that that'ssomething that you talk about,
(15:17):
how podcasting really is one ofthe solutions to um, and I love
the phrasing that you use,decentering social media, which
I know everyone in thisaudience, we have a love-hate
relationship with social media,you know, and I try not to
spiral about it because I'm sograteful for the life and the
business business that I've beenable to build as a result of
(15:40):
social media.
And there's so much that I loveabout it, but there are a lot
of, you know, frustrating thingsas a creator and as a business
owner.
And so why don't you tell us alittle bit about how you see
podcasting as a solution todecentering social media, what
that experience has kind of beenlike for you.
(16:02):
And yeah, like what you thinkis really helpful for people to
know.
Chelsea Riffe (16:06):
Yeah.
Well, I think this conceptreally clicked for me when I had
my first course launch.
And my goal in my head waslike, I would be so happy if
three people signed up, five isa stretch goal.
It's my first course ever.
Let's see what happens.
20 people signed up.
And I was like, where are allthese people coming from?
Like, I don't have a hugesocial media following.
At that time, I didn't have anemail list.
(16:26):
And I was like, I genuinelydon't understand.
And then all my podcastlisteners that had been
listening for years were DMingme, being like, Oh my God, I'm
so excited you're launching acourse.
I've been waiting for you tolaunch something.
And then I had this aha momentof like, whoa, people, you can
market to a totally differentgroup of people that are
actually opting into listeningto you.
And that's when my wheelsstarted turning, where I was
(16:49):
like, comparing podcasting andsocial media to me is like
comparing an apple to a waterbottle.
Like they're two totallydifferent things.
And I think that's when Irealized I really need to see
and experiment if podcasting, ifthat was like a one-off thing
that happened and I got lucky,or if this is real and like I
can do it again and again.
And overwhelmingly, theevidence was people are not only
(17:12):
opting into listening to you,right?
They don't hate listening topodcasts.
I don't like randomly look atmy phone and be like, ah, let me
listen to this stupid podcast,right?
Like I have to subscribe, Ihave to listen.
So the opt-in already, whenyou're thinking of it from a
marketing standpoint, is likesomeone's already halfway, if
not all the way down the funnel.
And now by the time they'relistening to you on a 30, 45
(17:33):
minute conversation, they'repretty invested.
So that started to click oflike the investment level from a
listener is just so muchdeeper.
And they're really getting toknow the context and nuance
behind the conversations thatyou're probably trying to have
on social.
So this is where I realize thefrustration with social is that
it's so short form and it has tobe optimized to compete with
(17:54):
thousands of pieces of contentthat it then becomes a
performance.
And I think that that was theswitch for me is like I started
to look at social media as likethis is a stage.
And when I go on stage, I needa costume, I need a script, I
need a set.
Like it's not off the cuff.
There's no, there's no nuance,there's no context.
It has to be very like hookyand engaging.
(18:14):
And that was exhausting for meas someone who does better in
long form.
So when I realized, okay, wait,people are coming to me through
my podcast.
I don't really like socialmedia.
How can I?
But I don't want to get off ofit completely because, for
example, you and I wereconnected, right?
Like we DM'd each other.
I have found out that I'm inChicago right now.
There's people that live inChicago that I wouldn't have
(18:35):
known lived here if I didn'tpost that I was in Chicago.
So I just started to look ateverything a bit differently.
And I was like, podcasting notonly is helping people get so
much more details about who youare, what you do in your belief
system, it's also where they getto know the real you and all
the constraints that you'refeeling of like, oh, character
count limit, video limit, um,yeah, my post got taken down
(18:58):
because I violated a guideline,but they won't tell me and I
can't get in contact withanybody.
Like all that frustration isbecause you're being put in this
really tiny box wherepodcasting, we could talk about
whatever we want for 60 minutes,and it still is really valuable
to someone.
Because even if it's you and Italking about, I don't know,
matcha lattes for an hour.
Well, at least they know welike matcha, that's our fun
(19:19):
thing to do.
Like they're getting to knowthe human.
And now, more than ever, humansare buying from humans when
they know their whole story.
Not that you have a beautifullogo or brand or your feed is
super aesthetic.
They want to know who the humanis.
So that's when I really doubledown on not just podcasting for
my business, but teaching folksthat podcasting can be the
solution.
And now the way I think aboutit is podcasting is like the
(19:43):
iceberg, and that's where allthe content is.
That's where my thoughts are,my deep opinions, my very
contextual layered conversationsgo.
And then social media is thedistribution of the podcast and
they're the ice cubes.
So, like just chipping off atthe iceberg to get the little
pieces of content for socialmedia, that is how I use social
media now.
So almost 95% of my posts in myfeed, if you're reading them,
(20:06):
are gonna be driving to alongborn piece of content,
whether that is my podcast or mynewsletter or my Substack or my
website.
But it is, I my goal is not togrow my social media following.
I don't care to beat thealgorithm.
I don't care to have abeautiful feed because I have
overwhelming evidence thatthat's not where clients convert
and I don't like spending mytime on there.
(20:26):
So I've also reframed it aswell because I was having a hard
time a few months ago where Iwas like, is this like a
necessary evil?
You know, like is this justsomething I have to suck up?
And I'm like, but why?
Like, if I'm feeling that way,then why don't I just get off of
it?
But I think a lot of businessowners have this fear too of
like, if I get off of it, I'mgonna like lose all my clients,
I'm not gonna get any newinquiries.
(20:48):
And I was like, I have tofigure out a way to re-reframe
this.
And so the way I look at it nowis it's like a tool to just
connect with people as a secondinbox or like a text line.
That's literally what DMs are,and sharing bits about my day
behind the scenes so that youget to know the human being
behind the mic on stories.
But other than that, I don'trun like social media campaigns,
(21:08):
I don't do paid ads, I don'thave a graphic designer, social
media manager.
Like it is not the center of myuniverse for so many different
reasons.
And I think the last thing I'llsay too is um knowing the
psychology of how social mediakeeps you addicted is not the
same at all with podcasts.
Like the whole point of asocial media platform is to keep
users on or growth or engaged,and the way they do that is by
(21:32):
constantly rolling out these newfeatures.
So for Instagram, for example,that's why we see like the
bubble on top of our name now.
And now you can like they addedanother font, and now you can
do this thing, and now you canmake AI images.
And it's like, that's not justfor fun.
Like, they need to keep peopleon the platform so that we don't
plateau and just leave.
And once you realize it'spretty much made the same way as
(21:52):
a casino slot machine is made,you can start to be like, is
that really how I want to spendmy time and energy, especially
as a business owner where I havevery limited capacity.
I don't have team members, Idon't have full-time employees,
like I have a very concentratedcapacity.
I am not going to put all myeggs in a slot machine.
I'm gonna put it in a long-formpiece of content where I
actually have more control.
(22:13):
I have very direct data of likewho's listening.
I can see, not only see, I canfeel more confident in what I'm
putting out because I know Idon't have to fit it into a
character count or video limit,et cetera.
So I could talk about this forfive hours, but those are my
initial thoughts aboutpodcasting and social media.
Sarah Mac (22:30):
I just want to pull out some really important points
that you mentioned because evenbefore I had my podcast, I was
creating those more in-depth,longer form pieces of content
because those are the places,like you say, where real
relationships are built.
And yeah, and obviously it gotto the point where I was like, I
had a Facebook group and Iwould do masterclasses in there,
or I would do, you know, like aZoom masterclass, I would do a
(22:53):
lot of live streams, and I stilldo, even though, and I kind of
phased out live streams for abit because they didn't get a
lot of reach, and it's thatgamification, it like tricks
you.
It's like, oh, not a lot ofpeople are watching this.
However, the people that areengaging in your longer form
pieces of content are the peoplethat are gonna buy from you,
you know?
And so it's really important tounderstand the purpose of all
(23:16):
of the pieces of content in yourecosystem.
And again, looking at what hasworked for you is really
helpful.
But if you know you're startingsomething new, taking it from
business owners who haveexperience, I can tell you that
the people who buy my offers areon my email list.
They are listening to mypodcast, they've been through
(23:36):
some of my longer form contentevents, they've watched my live
streams.
And, you know, yes, there arecontent pieces, those like
catchy, you know, virally, hookypieces of content, they can be
really great for getting you infront of new people.
Um, but yeah, you can put a lotof love and heart and energy
(23:57):
and work and money intoproducing a piece of content and
it can fall flat or likedisappear, and it can be very
disheartening.
So, and with we have actuallyquite similar charts.
I've got um, well, obviouslywe've got Pluto and Scorpio,
which is the generationalplacement.
That's the name of my Substackblog blog.
Um, but yeah, we both haveScorpio third house, and third
(24:17):
house, like you know, that'swhere I'm looking for for
someone who's into podcasting,is like, where's Gemini?
What's going on in the thirdhouse?
Like, what is, you know, theplacements around these areas
that are like all aboutcommunication and community.
I see you have some 11th houseplacements as well, but Scorpio
is all about depth, and I I knowthat that's something that
(24:38):
people come to me for, you know.
So I think it's really worthreflecting on what are the
pieces of content that I likecreating.
Like maybe you're an incrediblegraphic designer and you can
like bang out a carousel in 20minutes and you love doing it,
and that works really well foryou on social.
Like, that is not me.
So it's a personal question.
And um, yeah, like I built mybusiness on Facebook writing
(25:02):
like 800-word posts, which Iwould just crank out in like 20
minutes because I'm a writer.
So it is really worthreflecting and just knowing that
there is no one way.
And whenever I'm talking toclients and they're spiraling
about their strategy or socialmedia or whatever, I'm like,
people had businesses beforesocial media was a thing.
(25:24):
You know, at the heart of anybusiness is just human-to-human
conversations.
And the fact is, Instagram hasour attention, and probably a
lot of our clients are on there,and that's why it's worth, you
know, that's why I'm I'm onthere, like it has my attention.
And wonderful things can comeout of that.
So it's such a personalrelationship, but it's so
(25:45):
important to have that clearstrategy and to get to a point
where you know what's convertingfor you, whether that's through
mentorship and trying onsomeone else's strategy, seeing
how that feels for you.
Um, but also we have to beflexible because everything is
changing all the time.
So rather than spiraling andbeing overwhelmed, um, just
(26:08):
remember it's just to have aconversation with a human.
You know, what's one moreplatform I can serve today?
How can I get in front of them?
What feels like the easiest,most fun way for me to do that?
And um, yeah, and to reallytrust, trust your skills and
what you're naturally good at.
So tell me a little bit aboutum what I would love what you
(26:30):
mentioned before we jumpedonline about storytelling as a
form of activism.
And yeah, just tell me moreabout that.
Chelsea Riffe (26:39):
Yeah, so I don't think it's a surprise that the
world feels like it's on fireand I'm American and uh
especially coming back toAmerica after two years.
I forgot to mention I'm adigital nomad, so I'm always
traveling around.
And I haven't been in theStates for a very long time.
And obviously the headlinesjust keep getting, in my
opinion, worse and worse andworse.
(26:59):
And I started to feel veryweird about selling or
storytelling or doing anythingbecause I was like, I made a
comparison.
I was like, it feels like I'mselling cotton candy in the
middle of a war zone.
Like big things are happening,there's bombs being dropped,
there's families being rippedapart, and here I am being like,
hey, I have a course aboutpitching or like launch your
podcast.
And it felt very like fluffyand silly.
(27:22):
And so I just didn't reallymarket my stuff for a few days.
And I started to feel weird oflike, okay, but then when is the
right time?
Like, is there one day where wejust wait for a good headline
and like, okay, well, now I canmarket?
Like, there was no clear pathforward.
And I had a really hard timewith this, and I posted about it
in a community I'm in, andsomeone told me about this work,
(27:43):
I think by her name is likeDeepa Ayer, that is about how
there are roles in an ecosystemwhen we think of social justice
and equity and activism thateveryone plays, and we all can't
be all of the roles at once,and we're not really meant to,
because that's why it's anecosystem.
Like everyone plays their part.
So we have healers, we haveguides, we have the actual
activists that are like thefrontline activists, we have
(28:04):
storytellers.
And when I read that, Iliterally almost broke into
tears because I was like, thatis the truth, right?
I just said the word headlines.
Well, guess what?
Headlines are to stories.
The reason we're all gettingthis information is because
someone wrote a headline and iswriting a story, the news is
telling stories, podcasts aretelling stories.
When I started zooming out, Iwas like, oh my God, like the
(28:27):
fabric of our world and ourculture is made up of stories.
The stories that presidentialcandidates tell to get
themselves elected, the storiesthey tell on podcasts, the
stories that marketingadvertisements, like everything
is a story.
And it really clicked that likemy work is not fluffy or silly
or like, oh my God, come buy myprogram.
My work is teaching people toactivate their voices and become
(28:48):
better storytellers.
So, not just storytelling oflike about my personal life, but
amplifying people's voices.
The conversation we're havingright now, right?
Choosing to have people on yourpodcast or bring them into your
Substack or your Instagram Liveor whatever it is, you're
amplifying other people'svoices.
And so when you start to thinkof activism, usually what
activists want is a new way ofoperating or like a new world or
(29:11):
a new paradigm.
If we want certain headlinesand voices to stop leading the
conversations, well, we need tocrowd them out, right?
They're not just gonna be like,oh, I'm done talking.
I'm gonna go never postanything again.
We just need to take up morespace and become louder.
And I don't mean that in anaggressive brash way of like
middle fingers up, let's go,torches blazing, but like we
(29:34):
need to start showing the worldwe want to live in.
And I remember this quote froma book, I can't remember what
book it was.
Um, it was something aroundlike feminine leadership that's
essentially saying, like, kindof like be the change you wish
to see in the world, but likecreate the utopia of a business
you wish to see in the world.
So if I want a world wherepeople are talking about
leadership in a different wayand showing how they live their
(29:56):
values and operating in a newparadigm, well, then I need to
not only be investing in thosepeople, I need to bring them on
my podcasts, I need to amplifytheir voices, I need to be
talking about these things.
And then my world just lit up.
And I was like, this is how ifyou think of any leader in the
world, when you immediatelythink of a leader, they were
speaking, they were tellingstories.
They go out, they tellspeeches, they they're posting
(30:18):
things, they're sharing.
And I'm like, they'restorytellers at heart.
So this really reframed mymindset where I was like,
storytelling and selling andmarketing your work is not
frivolous.
It's actually like the numberone thing that can change a
culture.
And ever since then, I havefelt even more fired up about
activating storytellers.
Sarah Mac (30:36):
I love that so much.
And yeah, we've been havingthis conversation on the
podcast.
I've been speaking to itbecause I've had so many
conversations with people in mycommunity who are like, I just
feel weird selling right now, orlike I just feel overwhelmed
being on social media.
And it's so true.
Like, I especially when youhave a voice, especially when
(30:56):
you have a platform, you know,and you've built that, or you
have the urge to build that, youhave the desire to build that,
it's the single most powerfultool that we have.
And you saying that just makesme think of every single one of
my clients, you know, like allof the offers that we're we've
been putting together thatthey're selling.
I'm like, the more people thatget to do this work with you,
(31:17):
the more our world will embodythe values that we stand for.
And this was spoken by you as atrue Aquarius son in the sixth
house.
Like, you're revolutionary, dothe damn work, you know, like
show up every day, share yourstory.
It and comes back to you again,that conversation that I
literally built my business on,which is like, how can I serve
(31:38):
one person at a time?
I think we get so overwhelmedand we feel so disempowered,
percival.
Like, just let let's let go ofthe word overwhelm.
That was one of my I alsostarted out as a mindset coach
for my coaching business aftermy copywriting agency.
And that was one of my favoritelessons from my one of my first
coaches, is just be unavailablefor overwhelm because it's
(31:59):
literally a choice, right?
Like when we can't breathe,when we're in a head scramble,
like we are in control of that.
Take a deep breath, tell adifferent story, refocus, do
whatever you have to do to takecare of you and keep putting one
foot in front of the other.
And truly, you know, especiallywhen you have a small business
or you have a high-ticketbusiness model, you're not here
(32:21):
to influence millions and pemillions of people today, maybe
down the line, but with whateveryour reach and your capacity is
today, with the team and theresources and the skills that
you have today, focus on thepeople that you can help and,
you know, share your voice inthe way that feels like it has
meaning and intention andlongevity with your vision for
(32:42):
your business and your work.
I think that's such a powerfulmessage.
So thank you so much forbringing that and all of your
friends.
Chelsea Riffe (32:49):
And I think it's so weird, just to add to that.
I think a lot of times peoplefeel overwhelmed because they're
trying to save the world andthat's overwhelming, right?
Like saving millions andbillions of people, like, of
course you're overwhelmed, andyou're like, I don't have the
bin with their capacity to savethe world, and I don't believe
you should save the world.
I think you should focus onyour corner, your community,
your own orbit, and nurturethose people because that does
(33:12):
have a butterfly effect, right?
It ripples out, and now ifsomeone in your community is
probably gonna go take care ofsomeone else in another
community, and then it just itjust escalates to now that is
the way you start to change theworld is by changing it in your
own neighborhood, whether that'sonline or physical.
Sarah Mac (33:26):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I think one of the The
great things about people likeus is that we are delusional
because we're visionaries,right?
And but I think one of the shthe shadow side of the delusion
is thinking that we have thepower to change the world, you
know?
And I always try and bring myclients back to you like, what
(33:48):
is that tip of the iceberg?
What is that layer of like themost nutritious cream at the
top, the fattiest, densest partof your capability and your
gifts and your abilities?
Like, focus on that.
Focus on what you can do theabsolute best.
And because that is truly gonnacreate the most ripple effects
(34:08):
in your community.
And that even if there arepeople that you're not directly
supporting, other people seeingyou doing that are gonna be
activated to do that forthemselves just by seeing you as
an example.
Chelsea Riffe (34:20):
Oh, a million percent.
I just had someone message methe other day that's like, I've
been listening to your podcastfor like five years.
I've just never reached out toyou or told you.
And I'm like, what?
And I'm like, they and theysaid, like, I've actually been
so inspired.
I've done this thing, I've donethat thing.
And I was like, imagine if Istopped because I didn't have
the validation of numbers,right?
If I was like, oh, onlywhatever, a hundred people
listen per week.
(34:40):
I guess I can't podcast.
It's like I wouldn't be makingthe impact that I have.
And again, I don't, I don'tneed to have a thousand
followers or listeners orwhatever the case is.
And I genuinely think this isbringing it back to social media
for a second.
This is the issue, is socialmedia has numbers.
And so we can be perceived.
And we are such a, at least inAmerica, we're such a country
that's obsessed with metrics andstatus.
(35:01):
Like, how much money do youmake?
What zip code do you live in?
What's your tax bracket?
Like, there's all these numbersthat qualify us.
And so we like adapt that samemodel and put it on social
media.
But with podcasting, I thinkthat's what's so freeing, too,
is it like it equalizeseverybody.
And I don't know if you sawthis, but Spotify tried to roll
out uh a metric system wherethey were gonna show how many
(35:21):
listeners each podcast had.
Right.
There was so much backlashbecause people are like, you are
going to discourage people fromsharing their voice, and you're
actually gonna, it's gonna dothe same thing that it's done in
other communities, where nowthe people that are have the
highest listeners are just gonnaget louder and louder, and now
you're gonna like de discouragepeople from posting or sharing.
(35:41):
And it's the whole beauty ofsocial or excuse me, of
podcasting is that we haveequalized ourselves, and I think
that's really important becausethere's we need to get out of
this mindset that like myfollowing equals my worth, or
what how many listens I havedoes this.
Because, like I just said, if Iwould have stopped podcasting
because my numbers were low, Idon't know the impact I would
(36:03):
have made.
And what a disservice, right?
What a disservice to peoplethat are in your world that
don't get to hear your giftsbecause you're worried about
like numbers.
Sarah Mac (36:11):
Yeah, I love that.
And my favorite thing to remindpeople of whenever you're
getting upset because you don'thave 10 Schooling followers
already, or downloads orwhatever, is like, okay, so you
got 30 downloads of yourepisode, your podcast episode.
Like, imagine 30 people in aroom.
That's a lot of people.
Chelsea Riffe (36:27):
That's a lot of people.
I always say that like, imagine10.
Imagine 10 people coming tosay, hey, I love your outfit or
your work or whatever the caseis.
I'm like, you'd be like, that'sa lot of compliments I got
today, but all of a sudden 10likes or 10 DMs is like, oh, I
don't have enough engagement.
And I'm like, what a warpedworld we've created for
ourselves.
And that's why I refuse to getinvolved in that cycle anymore.
Sarah Mac (36:48):
Yeah.
Mindset is absolutelyeverything when you're growing
online.
So I could continue talking toyou for 10 schooling hours.
Thank you so much for thisawesome conversation.
Can you tell everybody whowants to learn more about you?
Where can they find you?
What have you got going on?
Chelsea Riffe (37:03):
Yes.
Well, we talked about mypodcast.
It's called In My Non-ExpertOpinion.
So that's where I'm definitelyhaving like juicy layered
conversations like this.
And then I have a substackcalled Slight Turbulence where I
write essays and things abouttravel.
And then if you want to workwith me, my website is just
chelsearife.com.
I have different programs tohelp you launch a podcast or
learn how to pitch yourself.
And uh on Instagram atChelseaRife.
If you want to DM me, we canchat there.
(37:25):
And threads, I'm on threads alot.
So you can find me there too atChelsea Rife.
Sarah Mac (37:29):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Chelsea.
Thank you everyone for beinghere.
Please share this episode withsomeone that you think will love
it and go check out Chelsea'swork, and we'll see you next
week.
Thank you.
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