10. Almost Real Things | Zach and Natalie

In this episode of Creative Money ATX, I sit down with Natalie Earhart and Zach Zulch, the co-founders of Almost Real Things (ART) — a for-profit arts organization based in Austin that supports local creatives through a mix of events, exhibitions, and their signature magazine. Natalie also serves as Editor-in-Chief and a contributing writer, while Zach brings a complementary skill set that helps drive the organization’s vision.

We start with Natalie’s and Zach’s personal journeys — how their relationships with art began, how they describe what they do, and the story of how Almost Real Things was born. They share the early inspirations, the evolution of the magazine, and what it’s like running a creative business day-to-day.

We also get into the financial side of things: how ART functions as a for-profit, what revenue streams they’ve developed, and what experiments haven’t worked out. Natalie and Zach open up about the realities of sustaining an arts business in Austin — from barriers local artists face to their own strategic goals for 2025.

Studio 2324 

Elevate Grant 

Nexus Grant

Trail Conservancy 

Touch The Art 

Jason Webb watercolor artist 

Ellen Nelson 

Hanger Art Studio 

Prospect New Orleans

Prospect 6 

Joey Cruz 

24 Diner 

Magnolia Cafe

Saps 

Texas Thrift 

 Armadillo Christmas

Where to find Almost Real Things 

https://almostrealthings.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/almostrealthings/

Find me, Bri Landry

Instagram @creative_moneyatx

https://www.creativemoneyatx.com/

If you liked the show please share, rate, and review.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
I had big plans for season two.
I knew exactly what I wanted andI knew how to do it.
But yeah, getting it done withjust me is sadly pretty hard.
My plans were to have 10episodes, just like season one,
check, got that done.

(00:21):
If you're hearing this, I haveat least a classic intro and
outro for the podcast.
I kind of missed, though,talking to you guys at the
beginning or the end of thepodcast, so I might mess with
that a little bit.
I wanted cover art, which wegot.
Thank you, Tate.
Sponsors would be nice.
A way for the listeners tocontribute would be nice.

(00:43):
A website did that one.
And I wanted to publish once aweek.
That was ambitious, and I don'tknow if I'll ever be able to get
it on a consistent schedule likea traditional podcast, but, you
know, I'm just going to keep onmaking them anyway.
Most people who start podcasts,they get to three episodes and

(01:06):
then they stop, so I've made 20,which is pretty cool, even if
they all were not in apredictable order.
I have a lot of ideas for acreative money ATX, and I want
all of them to happen right now.
And if you're an artist, you arefamiliar with this dilemma.

(01:27):
Even after you work really hardto just get an idea, you still
need to find a plan, followthrough, pay bills somehow.
You know, that's what thispodcast is about.
Some highlights from Season 2...
I started interviewing inadvance because I wanted again

(01:47):
to get that one week scheduleand put the interviews in the
queue.
I wanted to start the seasonduring East while people were
still excited about local art.
I got some of that done, startedcollecting audio equipment,
which has been great.
Sound is really important to me,but sound also costs money.
So finding that balance andThings weren't as exactly

(02:11):
straightforward as I would haveliked, but accomplished a lot in
season two, and I'm glad thatyou're listening and gotten this
far.
And if you're new, welcome.
There's more to come.
I already have interviewsrecorded and ready to go for
season three.
When will they come out?

(02:32):
TBD.
TBD, TBD, TBD.
Because it's going to be thatkind of podcast, and I have to
accept that.
Thank you for listening, andhere is episode 10.
I hope you enjoy.
Hello, I'm Brie Landry.
This podcast is about artistsmaking a living here in my

(02:53):
hometown, Austin, Texas.
I talk to local artists abouttheir relationship with art and
money and find out what successlooks like for an artist here in
Austin.
This is Creative Money ATX.
Today I have Natalie Earhartwith me and Zach Zolch.

SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Hello.

SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
Hi.
Hi.
I was thinking we could talkabout y'all and then we can talk
a little bit.
I mean, then we can talk aboutalmost real things.
Is that okay?
For sure.
Yeah.
So first, how did y'all meet?
We met in high school.

SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Sophomore year.
Yeah, when we were

SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
14 or 15 years old in English class.
Yeah, Zach was pretty outspoken.
I was definitely not.
And somehow, I think we bondedover music, burning CDs and
things like that.
Good friendships start likethat.
And then how did yourrelationship with art start,
Natalie?
Yeah, Zach and I have known eachother for forever.

(03:55):
I went to college for studioart, mostly doing sculptural
work.
We were in touch.
We both moved to Austin in 2015.
And initially really were intopublication and print.
So that's why Almost Real Thingsstarted as a magazine.
I was also a writer, saxographicdesigner.
So it just kind of was workingtogether and then blossomed into

(04:19):
a business.
So yeah, now we're 10 years inand have done all of these
things that we weren't settingout to do, but they've all been
really rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
When did you make that decision?
Like in elementary school orwhatever you wrote.
Oh, yeah.
You wanted to be.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
with art.
Sometimes I get confused becauseour acronym is art, like almost
real things.
Oh, yeah.
When I was well, I found thisrecently when I was like six or
seven.
I had you had to put like whatyou want to be when you grow up.
And I said, I want to be anartist and a writer.
And I was like, oh, my gosh, Iguess I did.
My thing.
It worked.

(04:57):
Checked all the boxes.
This was fate.
I think I wanted to be a marinebiologist because of the
dolphin.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
yeah.
You get to just swim with themand stuff, right?
Yeah, no science.
That's what Marissa Gravittwanted to

SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
do.
Yeah, yeah, her best friend.
But actual biology and math, I'mfine.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
once you get to the science of it all.

SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
Not as fun.
It's very pretty, though.
What about you, Zach?
How did your relationship withart start?

SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
I think it was probably from like birth,
basically, because my dad is alawyer, but only because his dad
was a concert pianist and apainter.
And so my dad, given hisrelationship with his father,
wanted to do the exact oppositeof that.
And then being a lawyer, whichmy dad was really good at and

(05:47):
liked, he said that I wouldnever recommend anybody become a
lawyer.
And so I took that to heart.
And yeah.
became an artist.
Initially wanted to be anarchitect, but didn't like all
the math that came with it.
And the project length is what Isaw was like a 10 year cycle for
like a single project.

(06:07):
And I said, that's way too long.
I need like three months max onany project.
So then graphic design kind offilled that void of, you know,
wanting to create something andhave it be lasting, but also you
get to do more than one projectevery 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
Yeah.
When I was younger, I also toldmy friend, I was like, I think I
want to be a lawyer.
And she automatically goes,you're way too creative to do
that.

SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Well, my dad always says that the most creative
people do become lawyers, butit's because either they didn't
think that they could make it aseither a musician.
I think he said that the twobiggest majors in law school
were music and and philosophy.
And so it's like people who wentwith music but didn't think that
they could make it as a musicianor people who went with

(06:53):
philosophy because they likedart and music and just like
talking about it.
And that's exactly what mybrother did.
He got a philosophy degree andthen became a lawyer.
I

SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
kind of like my lawyer having a philosophy
degree.

SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Yeah, he's a very creative person too.
I think it's just like theoutlet that you find, I guess,
through life takes you todifferent places.

SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
It's a weird journey.
So when people ask y'all whatyou do, how do you answer?
It changes a lot.
Whatever I want.
Yeah.
I do what I want.
Initially, again, Almost RealThings was a publication.
So it was almost like we, I'm awriter.
I think even my bio sayseditor-in-chief, which is such a

(07:37):
small part of what I do now.
But so now it's like a We run anorganization, a community arts
organization, where we doevents, have space, create
magazine.
So we just kind of laundry list.
We've had to remember to keep itshort for the years.

SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
I feel like we keep going.

SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
Yeah.
It depends on what part of thebusiness you're asking.
Yeah.
That's really it.
Because it is a magazine.
It's an events company.
It's a studio space for rentalsor actual studios.
Yeah.
Coworking, creative coworking,markets, bus tour.
It's a bus company.

SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Art shows, music shows.

SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Creative agency for marketing work and branding.
And yeah, it's kind of like thewhole business and the name
Almost Real Things allowed us todo whatever we wanted to do.
And like, I think that's whyit's lasted for 10 years now.
is because we just pivotedtowards whatever was working at
the time and whatever had thebest impact for the community.

(08:43):
But it's always been about that,like people who are passionate
about what they do and they wantto share that.
So there's been a hundreddifferent ways that we've
achieved that goal.
And it just always is evolving.

SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Yeah.
And that's kind of the nextquestion is, could you explain
almost real things, which youkind of already did, Zach?
Nope.

SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Unexplainable.

SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Zach's good at it.
Good at this answer.

SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
So the name Almost Real Things came from like a
list of maybe 20 names that wehad at the very beginning of
just the publication.
I think other ones were likeConsider Your Legs and like
Whirlpool.
Something like that, right?
Super like zine worthy names.
Yeah, way, way out there.
And I don't know why I boughtthe domain Almost Real Things

(09:31):
back in like 2013.
I don't know what I was thinkingat the time, but I was looking
through my domain names and Isaw it and added it to the list
and then started thinking aboutlike, oh, it's perfect because
Natalie had just gotten finishedwith this really cool art
project.
Very personal, very conceptualwork.
And she like, what did youfinish it at midnight?

SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Yeah, it's been months on this letterpress
project gone.
Yeah.
gone out of my way to make theselike embossed cards with vellum
and whatnot.
But yeah, I finished it at like4 a.m.
in my apartment and I was like,okay, I'm done.
Like I didn't have any plan forit.

SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
We're in a new city, don't know anybody.

SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
Yeah, I was like, had no plan for to show anybody
and I was just like, whoa, Ijust spent so much time on this.
I would like to show it tosomeone and I have no idea how
to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
Yeah.
So that's kind of we were likethinking about, okay, all like,
there's so many people who haveprojects like this, who, if
you're at the beginning of yourcareer or you're in a new place,
it just doesn't feel right tolike pop up and like start a
friendship by like, look what Imade.
I, you know, I care about this alot.
And they're like, I don't know.
Yeah.
It's like showing your friend asong that you made.
Right.
And it's like, here's fourminutes of like me pouring my

(10:47):
heart out and you have to sitthrough the whole thing and
like, hopefully act like you'reinterested.

SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
But before they're even a friend.

SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Yeah.
So it's even harder.
So we were like, okay, what dowe, like call these things and
they just gravitated towards theterm almost real things.
It's like before you share itwith anybody, it's almost real.
But once you do that act ofsharing, it becomes real.
And so that's, I think we reallyliked that concept of putting
out a magazine that was full ofthings that people had not seen

(11:16):
before.
And especially a collection ofwork from emerging artists who
are all very talented as well.
And seeing where it goes andseeing how many people thought
that that was a good idea.
So we put out the first issuewith no intent of like really
having a second issue.
We were like, let's see if thisworks.
See if anybody cares.
And then we had like 60 peopleemail us after the first one

(11:38):
wanting to be in the second

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
one.
I know.
They were like, how do I get init?
I'm like, I need to figure thatout.
Maybe there's

SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
a process we should make.
But yeah, it was like, it's likesad, but also happy.
It's like there's so many peoplewho have things that they want
to share and very few ways to doit.
And yeah.
Even at that time, we were like,fuck Instagram.
So even 10 years ago, it's not agood way to have people find you

(12:05):
and to make actual connectionsand have conversations around
art.
And so we were like, yeah,what's a better way to do this?
A print magazine where you can'ttrack anything and you just drop
them around the city and it'sfree and we'll never know.
Initially, we would never knowwho was reading them and where
they would end up.

(12:25):
But

SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
the events were born out of that, which is community
centric and then in person.

SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Very quickly with the second.
Well, we had a launch party forthe first issue where we had
like maybe 80 people show up,which was pretty great.
Cool for the first thing.
And then we had a big party forthe second issue and the third
and fourth issue.
And at that point, that waslike, OK, now we've made the
connection where we can like seeand talk to the people who were
in the magazine and becamefriends with them and then gave

(12:53):
them opportunities to makefriends with other people in the
community.
And

SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
now

SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
it's a cycle.

SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
And you're very obviously filling a void like
some of those needed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think still like the validityof being in a magazine is still
like thought of, you know, it'sa very cool thing.
And I think it was fun toBecause we always took the
magazine seriously in the senseof the design and the writing

(13:20):
and the professional, you know,and the printing.
We invested a lot of just ourown money wanting it to look
really nice and be somethingthat people keep.
But it's very cool to givesomeone that opportunity to feel
valid in what they're making andwhat they're pursuing and then
feel confident to keep doing it.
Definitely.
It sounds like there's two waysalmost real things could have

(13:42):
gone and it could have been likeScope creep and then get really
overwhelmed of all the coolthings you can do.
But it also sounds like y'alljust evolved like thoughtfully
and then kind of figured it out.
Does that sound fair?

SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Whether it was intentional or not, I think it's
the push and pull of ourrelationship, too, is like I'm
very like go getter,

SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
like

SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
super optimistic about everything.
And I'm like, just becauseyou're around talented people,
you feel like you can doanything.
Yeah.
Right.
Anything that you want to do oranything.
as you shouldn't do all of thethings that you could possibly
do.
I keep telling our friend Joeythis.
I was like, just because youknow how to do something doesn't
mean you should be doing it allthe time.
Especially once you likegraduate past a certain level.

SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
100%.

SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Teach somebody else to do that job or like, you
know, start growing a team sothat you can have a personal
life and like free time.

SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
What were you going to describe me as?
You described yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
The opposite of

SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
that.

SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
No,

SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I'm sad and pessimistic.

SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
Yeah, I don't think anything's going to work.
Do

SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
you think you're pessimistic?
No, I'm a little cynical.
I was.
I'm probably less so now.
I'm more like pragmatic.
So where Zach's like, let's do500 things this month.
I'm like, let's pick five.

SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
Sounds way less fun.

SPEAKER_00 (15:07):
Yeah.
So I think that's where we meetin the middle.

SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Yeah.
It's a balance for sure.
Yeah.
And it goes the opposite way afew times too.
I have to reel you in.

SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
Oh, yeah.
I usually go down a rabbit holefor like, oh, I want this to be
really weird and confusing,especially with like the
articles in the magazine orcontent.
And Zach will be like, OK, butno one will understand that.
And they won't they won't wantto read it.
And I'm like, but that doesn'tmatter.
But we're a business.
So, yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
it's things that would have been funny stories.
I feel like comedians have a lotof this, too, where it's like
they'll create a project that'sso out there that's like
hilarious and so niche that Butit fails.
It's like a huge failure.
And it's like a funny story thatthey tell of like, I tried to do
this thing and it was like, wewasted two million dollars doing
this.
Like, that's hilarious.

(15:58):
But yeah, if you think about itlike a business, that's not
sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
So one of I think one of the ideas is the trash
issue.
Oh, yeah.
Issue is just.
But it was more

SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
about reusable material.
But then we were also like trashmagazine.
How could we make it look kindof like this trashy thing?
And then like artists, they'rejust like you and show them
doing normal things going to theHEB.
But then, yeah, conceptually, itcould be fun.
But then, yeah, being like, doyou want to be in the trash
issue when we email?

(16:33):
Or it might end up in the trashquite

SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
often.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is the exact opposite ofthe initial goal, which was
create something that peoplewould never want to throw away.

SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Yeah.
We did have the issue seven wascalled Fail Well.
So it was about like, what arethings that you tried that
didn't work out, but what do youlearn from them?
But.
We just shorthand would call itthe fail issue.
So that was to like writing anemail being like, hey, I want to
interview you for the failissue.
Someone was like that.

(17:03):
I don't want to do

SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
that.
You're perfect for this one.

SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
So it took some explaining.
Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Only approach good friends.
Yeah.
So what does the average daylook like for your jobs?

SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
There are no average days, only extraordinary days.
I

SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
mean, we're doing a lot of administrative work.
We're in the office a lot.
We have our office here, our HQin South Austin, but now we're
also on Cesar Chavez at the EastStudios.
A lot of emailing people back.
I'm always like, I email someoneback and I'm like...
And then I'm surprised when theymay email me back and I'm like,

(17:45):
oh no, I have to do this again.
It's like an endless cycle.

SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
It seems to be how the morning starts.
You wake up and you look at yourphone and there's somebody who
wants something from you andyou're like, ah, but that's the
only way to get out of bed isthat they're relying on you.

SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
We try to do admin meetings on Monday to start the
week and then throughout theweek have just a lot of meetings
with people.
So it's either about like anevent we're doing or an event
they want to do, rentals,upcoming projects, checking in
on something we're currentlyworking on.
We partner a lot with ourfriends at Mesmerize, Clay and

(18:23):
Mateo.
So we'll meet them.
It kind of just depends thecurrent project that we're
working on, but we're mostly inthe office, both offices.
And then it's always fun.
There are artists that work inin our HQ with us.
And there's artists at the otherstudio.
So then we just get to talk andsee what they're doing and talk
about art stuff.
And it can very easily distract,which I love.

(18:48):
So, you know, we just get to bearound art all the time as well.

SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
Yeah.
I think every day is prettydifferent.

SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
It's hard to, again, it's like, what section of the
business are we focusing on?
At what point?
Because it could be very designheavy.
It could be very like, justphysical labor, moving things
back and forth and setting upfor a big event.
Yeah.
And then cleaning after a bigevent.
I

SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
always underestimated.

SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Yeah.
Quibbling about where thingsshould go.

SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
And whether or not they are in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
At least once a month have some sort of like,
what am I doing?
What am I doing?
What did I do?
Like existential crisis.
That's usually me.
Zach doesn't really have that.

SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
No, mine's all...

SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
Internal?

SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
It's all over there on my desk right now.
That's my existential crisis.
Just objects that...
I don't want to throw away, butthey don't have a home.

SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
I'm familiar with the strategy.

SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Yeah.
So then they've piled up quitenicely.
I

SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
piled them for you.

SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
No, they did it to themselves.
Yeah, Natalie put all of thestuff in my corner and now I
have to figure that one out.
So that's probably what my daylooks like after this.
But the past two weeks were justfinancial spreadsheets trying to
figure out what our future lookslike based on the past.

SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
With that in mind, and also asking the same
question differently, y'all area for-profit, right?
Yeah.
So how does that flow of moneywork?
Like, where does it come from?
And then how do you decide whatprojects to allocate it to?

SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
I mean, so we used to, I guess we still are.
I guess there's really nopaperwork, but there's like
umbrella projects.
nonprofit can have sponsoredprojects and you can get grant
money from the city.
This is how it used to work.
Now the city opened it up tofor-profits.
So we don't have to use thatdesignation anymore to apply.
But a lot of that grant moneythat we've gotten over the years

(20:47):
is very specific towards theevents that we put on.
So for this year, we got theElevate grant and all of that
money is going to go towardsTouch the Art to expand that
program this year.
So that one's pretty cut and drywhere the money goes.

SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, grant money inthe city of Austin is always
going to go towards an event ora project or an event series.
Yeah.
So that's where that.
And then other streams ofrevenue.
Is that kind of the questionyou're asking?
Just having a physical space.
So rent, studio rent, whetherfor monthly and then one-off

(21:21):
rentals.

SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
So we have RHQ and we have 2324.
Yeah.
Studios and Gallery over on EastCesar Chavez.

SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Which is a little newer, right?

SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah, we got that more recently.

SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
Yeah.
It's not a new studio space, butwe took over managing less than
a year ago.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Yeah.
So we have those.
And then we have all of the gigsthat we do as a creative agency
for other businesses.
As we've gotten a lot ofexperience in the event world,
marketing, promotion,

SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
marketing.

SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
Advertising, branding, all of that kind of
stuff.
People have asked us to helpstep in for other larger
productions, which has beenreally cool to see older
businesses and more establishedlegacy businesses, how they run
from the inside and howsometimes they feel like they've
looked at things a little tooclosely and they need just a

(22:14):
fresh shake up or somebody toshoot out some stupid ideas so
that they can choose ones thatmaybe are...
a little bit out of theircomfort zone, but probably more
effective, which I think issuper fun

SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
just

SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
to come in and like, like learn about somebody else's
baby and then be like, what ifthey did this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
See how far you can take thatconversation.
Do

SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
you have an example of a project that you'll?

SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
I think the most fun one that we helped with recently
was Armadillo

SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
for me.
Armadillo Christmas

SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Bazaar.
We have, we got to do two focusgroups and talk to 20 different
people about like theirexperience with it.
And it's coming up on its 50thyear.

SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
Yeah, this year.

SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
Yeah, this year is their 50th.
So it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yes.
And

SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
people have strong opinions and like a variety of
different ways because it'sevolved over the years.
And it's like, oh, yeah, I went10 years ago.
It's like, Very different thanit was, I'm sure.
And just like the world changesso quickly.
That

SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
one's very interesting because, well, the
founders have been so kind, butBruce and Annie starting it in
the 70s in Austin as essentiallyan art market in a parking lot,
you know, where he worked to seesomething like that sustained
for 50 years at the scale thatit is now.
is pretty wild for us, you know,being only 10 years in.

(23:39):
So they just have endlessstories and have had so cool.
Yeah.
Just so many experiences.
And I feel like we don't alwaystalk to like, especially in
Austin, there's a lot of new,new blood here, new things going
on, but like talking to olderorganizations, more established

(24:00):
organizations about theirjourney as well.
has been really insightful.
And it's very cool that theyhave reached out to us and
befriended us, even though whatwe do is, I mean, we correlate
on art, but like the way we doit is pretty different.
But they wanting to kind of likesee how we could cross over and

(24:20):
what we could do for them.
And of course, we're pushingideas like a giant armadillo
mascot and like crazy thingswe're hoping to pull off this
year.

SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Yeah, we have to talk to them and see what
they're into.
But yeah, we have provided themlike a It ended up being
120-something pages ofsuggestions and fun ideas.

SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
And research, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
From the focus groups and everything else that
we were researching from theirhistory and the numbers.
They do great recaps after everyyear, so they luckily are very
data-driven.
But yeah, things like that.
And then Clay and Mateo atMesmerize, who...
We spoke about earlier, theyhave all sorts of cool projects
for South by and like more eventproduction gigs.

(25:06):
So people are coming in andworking at, you know, budgets
that are 10 to 20 times whatwe're used to.
We always had talked about,like, wouldn't that be the
dream?
You know, like we're at thebeginning, we were putting on
events for.
$3,000.
And then we're trying to makethem like the biggest thing that
we could possibly make, youknow?
And now, and now we're like,okay, any gallery show that you

(25:28):
put on ends up being$3,000.
So now we're trying, our scalewent up.
Now it's like, oh,$10,000 wouldbe like a really, really great
big event for us.
And then 30,000.
And then we

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
need 50,000.
Yeah.
I mean,

SPEAKER_01 (25:43):
inflation plays into this a lot too.
But when somebody comes to youand they're like, Hey, we have a
million dollar budget.
And you're like, Once you lineout of it all out, you're like,
that's not enough.
How did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Our mission got expensive.

SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Yeah, exactly.
So

SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
what's something that Almost Real Things has
tried and it didn't work out?
Becoming millionaires.
I mean, there's probably a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Oh, sticking to a quarterly publication schedule.

SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Oh, yeah, that's a

SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
good one.
That's a tough one, especiallythe magazine ended up initially
every issue.
was its own art project.
It had a theme.
It was very curated.
The design changed every timebecause I'm a masochist and
wanted it to lean into whateverthe theme was.
The prompts are different.
So it was like the leasttemplated thing that you've ever

(26:35):
experienced on a publication,which is the opposite of how
publications are supposed torun.
I'm pretty sure I've neverworked at one.
Also, I mean, I've never workedat like, you know, a standard
business model.
one.
We're not journalists, so it'snot like we're out there hitting
the streets trying to find thestory.
Or

SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
fact-checking or anything.

SPEAKER_01 (26:56):
Yeah, it was a curated art project.

SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
And that was one of our struggles initially because
I want it to be in our project.
I was like, no templates, nothis.
It was taking so long tocomplete.
You're trying to recreate thewheel.
Yeah, every time, everymagazine, completely different.
And Zach's like, we needtemplates.
26 different wheels.
Yeah.
And no buyers.

(27:20):
Yeah, I came around to thatpretty quickly, maybe after the
first year was like, okay, yes,we should probably decide on
these things.
Last year was the first year wedidn't put out a new issue.
But we plan on doing somethingthis year.
It's 10 years.
It's still one of the most funthings we do.
But it's a completely passionateproject at this point.

(27:41):
We tried to initially monetizeit.
But then we never wanted it tolose, like, again, that project
feel.
We can do whatever we want.

SPEAKER_01 (27:50):
Yeah.
It just didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
But it's a fantastic marketing piece for us.
I think we just got to the pointwhere we had so many
opportunities and gigs andthings on the table already that
it's like making anothermarketing piece for us and the
people who are in it seems likeit would just take time away
from other things that couldhelp more.

SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
Have a bigger impact.

SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
See, I don't know that we've ever...
Have we ever put out four issuesa year?

SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
I thought you were going to say, I don't know if
we've ever failed.

SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Oh, no.
I don't know that we've...
I think we did.
We probably have put out fourissues in one year, but it's a
rarity to get.
So that's why I think we stoppedsaying quarterly.
And we just...
I don't even know.
I don't think we use a term.
There's no word for

SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
replacement.

SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
No.
Just a published magazine.
It's just a magazine.
It comes out when

SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
we want it to.
When we need it to.
When the world needs it most, itappears.

SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
Also, I wanted to ask, what's y'all's overhead
like?
I imagine it's rent.
And then what does it take tokeep this place up?

SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
Yeah.
You should see my spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_00 (28:58):
Yeah, I was going to say.
It's

SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
insane.

SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
I went over so

SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
much of this.
Yeah.
So we're ending our lease here.
in June and trying to findanother space.
So we're pitching it around.
So throughout that process, Ihad to pull all of our numbers
from like 2021 until now.
And I divided them per likerevenue stream, per section of

(29:23):
the business.
And I mean, yeah, a lot of it isjust rent.

SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
It's

SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
rent, payroll.
And then there's not a lot ofmaintenance, other overhead.
which is pretty great if we havemonths where we don't do very
much.
It's just a lot of expenses andcost of goods sold when we do a
project.
So we've been very fortunate tocollect this amazing community

(29:53):
around us that we can activatewhenever we want to, just as far
as contractors go.
Super talented people that youcan bring in to solve any
problem.
And so that's kind of ourday-to-day is figuring out,
okay, what's...
What's on the dock for thismonth?
What's the impactful thing thatwe can do and who can we bring
in to solve that problem?

(30:14):
And then all of the expensesstart filing in.
But yeah, on the month to month,it's mostly just rent.

SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
Rent, payroll.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
So what do you think is the biggest barrier for
artists in Austin right now?
There are quite a few.
I mean, money is always ahindrance and will always be.
I was just at the artscommission meeting Monday.
and one of the artscommissioners, Heidi Schmalbach.
Can you explain what thecommission is?
Sure.
The arts commission, one eachcouncil member.

(30:43):
I think there's 13 districts.
in Austin, but each councilmember nominates someone to be a
part of the commission.
This is how it works with mostcommissions.
So someone probably that'srunning an arts organization or
an artist in their own right,have a certain level of
experience and professionalismand are invested in Austin.
So there's council members fromall these districts that are on

(31:06):
the arts commission that allvolunteer.
I think they're four-year termsand And every month there's a
meeting, a public meeting.
Anybody can go.
You get updates on what's goingon with the grant funding from
the Cultural Arts Division.
You get updates on the art inpublic places.
So they kind of, they work withstaff, but they're not working

(31:27):
for the city.
Again, they're unpaid.
So they're almost like thecommunity liaisons.
And then anybody can present.
So there's always new topicscoming up.
They get to advise city councilon any matters that pertain to
the arts in Austin.
So Heidi Schmalbach wasmentioning scaffolding in a term
of like seeing how you cansucceed as a business here and

(31:52):
how you can make it from you canstep from like one point to the
next.
And in Austin and especiallyeven how our grant system works
here, how we don't have that.
Like, okay, you're an emergingartist.
What's the next thing you can doto get to the next level?
And then how do you get here?
And then how do you get to workon a million dollar budget for
the recent Art in Public Placescall?

(32:14):
What happens is like there'sthis gap.
And so you have communityorganizations like ours as well
that are trying to fill thatvoid.
But it's a lot of work.
You know, no one can do it ontheir own.
So all of us are almost likedoing this work and it's
becoming...
And it's hard to have thecapacity.
And so and then you seeestablished organizations that

(32:39):
also are running out of fundingor or their space gets taken
from them or whatnot.
So then as a youngerorganization, you go, OK, well,
I'm not going to make it.
So, again, there's like there isa little bit of a lack of a
system of how do I jump fromthis point to this point?
Right.
And what are the steps I couldtake to get there?
We see it all the time with Artin Public Places calls.

(33:02):
So there used to be Tempo, whichwas like the temporary public
art that you could make.
It was a little bit more of amentorship.
Now, the Trail Conservancy ismore in charge of that, but it's
still kind of like regaining itsstrength.
So you have all these calls comeout from Art in Public Places
that are for mostly big budgets.
So you're And then you haveartists that want to apply here,

(33:27):
but they can't understand how toutilize that budget.
And then they also don't feelprepared to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
They don't have the access to the right pieces.
Because a lot of the time it'slike, oh, now you have to work
with an engineer and anarchitect.
And they're like...

SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Which one?
Like, oh, that's for you tofigure out.
You got the contract.

SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
I mean, you get support from staff, but it's
still, there's so many projectson the docket that you, yeah,
you have to have anunderstanding of how public art
works.

SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
And you're likely going to lose that project to
somebody who's gone through thisprocess before and has that
knowledge and has thoseconnections because that's just
way easier.

SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
And becomes a silo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then you don't have as manynew people kind of becoming a
part of the system and growing.
Yeah.
And so your choices becomefewer.
And then again, people feellike, well, how do I get to that
next step?
I mean, it's again, the grants,the way the grants work now are
not a bad way, but they werealso talking about like micro

(34:23):
grants, like the lowest grantyou can get Nexus, which used to
be twice a year.
And it's now once a year is$5,000.
It's to produce an event.
Most artists aren't skilled orknowledgeable about what it
takes to produce an event.
It's a really big ordeal, butyou know, you used to have
community initiatives.
You could get$1,500, you'd get$2,500 and it would be more

(34:48):
frequent.
So it's like, what about having,maybe it's less money initially,
but it's more frequent and youcan kind of scale up to that
5,000 and then scale up to10,000 with Elevate.
And even as a for-profitorganization, we can now only
apply for Elevate.
We've got the full amount thisyear in the second year they've

(35:08):
had it.
There's nowhere else for us togo but down unless we become a
nonprofit.
We cannot get the high.
Yeah, we can't sustain it.
So now we've hit the top.
Cool.
Either we get that same amountor like, you know, the slight
increases they do or we go downand there's always going to be
new people applying.
So it's sad that there's no likevery clear path here.

(35:33):
And I think that's a big hurdle.
I

SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
think the city really is only like maybe 10% of
people not the problem, but likethe general ecosystem, that
money should only be like 10%.
And that's what it feels likeTexas and like the government
wants, you know, because likecapitalism and if there's a
void, then business will pop upand fulfill that void and make

(35:59):
money doing that.
So there's that very much like,you know, we're not going to
give too many handouts situationhere in this state.
But the problem is, There's aton of like big corporations and
monopolies that provide zerosupport and zero funding and
zero philanthropy.

(36:19):
And they do nothing but take.
And there's been no unified callto ask them for support.
And I'm sure they love that.
Like, don't come in my building.
Don't ask me for money.

SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
Hi, y'all.
I wanted to take a moment tothank you for listening.
This podcast success depends onlisteners like you.
If you haven't already, pleaseconsider becoming a Patreon
member.
For$3 a month, you'll haveaccess to exclusive content like
Studio Time episodes where Iinterview artists about the
value of their work.
You can find the link below inthe show notes.

(36:55):
Is there like a common incentivethat other locations use?

SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
I think there's a lot of them, but I think most of
the ones that we've researchedhave come from city initiatives,
right?
I think there's a big disconnectbetween the city of Austin and
the, what is it, the county?
Yeah, the county is, it seemslike, who gives all of the tax
breaks and things and would havethe power maybe to...

(37:20):
ask for something like, youknow, 1% is still a lot, but
like a 1% give back program thata lot of other states have to
fund arts and beautificationprojects.
And I know they built that intodevelopment for art in public
places, and that's a great wayto fund those projects.
But yeah, just, you know, somesort of authority that has the
ability to ask for thatphilanthropic support.

(37:43):
And I just don't, I don't thinkAustin specifically has a ton of
private and people who arewilling to put their money on
the line to become a patron ofthe arts and to give large
amounts of money withoutexpecting a ton in return
besides just the cultural valuethat it provides.
And yeah, I think a lot ofpeople have relied on Austin to

(38:06):
just generate that itselfbecause it's always been such a
creative city.
So it's been interesting to seethat.
And then that all goes back toif you're trying...
as a small business to check allthese boxes and find out where
money comes from, you eventuallyburn out.
And at that point you're, youfeel like a failure, even if

(38:28):
what you were doing wasbeautiful and creative and
awesome and like brought peopletogether and you like, you
created everything that hasvalue except for money.
Like if it's easy to feel burntout from that.
And we've seen that with justlike space and, as an issue.
Like not being able to find aplace to host your organization

(38:50):
and to host events and to bringpeople together.
It's like, even if you hadeverything else, all of the
checklist is checked off exceptfor space.
It's like, well, that's rough.
Too bad.
Everything's expensive now.
So

SPEAKER_00 (39:03):
I've been hearing that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
That's yeah.
That's been the conversation forour entire existence here.
10 years now of people losingspaces and Yeah.
Just like especially thenonprofits that weren't able to
save up enough to purchase.
And then they eventually getkicked out.
And then they or they the adminages out to the point where

(39:25):
they're like, I'm not makingenough to retire on.
Like, I, you know, I got toscramble now.
And even if they were doing agreat job and providing an
amazing service to thecommunity, it still feels like
you couldn't make it happen.
I don't want to say you failedbecause you didn't, but.
it's like, where do you go?

SPEAKER_00 (39:42):
How

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
do you move on from that?

SPEAKER_00 (39:45):
I think we shifted our focus, maybe just like even
a couple of years into ourbusiness to really be on
sustainability and largerpicture.
And as an artist, it's hard.
You're very much focused in yourown practice.
And that's why I try toencourage, we try to like
connect these resources withartists directly and kind of
show them like, hey, you don'tthink it's impacting you, but it

(40:06):
is impacting you.
And more than that, it'simpacting the entire community
And therefore we'll have, youknow, that will affect you.
So that's why we have all theseconversations and we go to these
meetings and we do the researchbecause we were, we're trying to
always see the bigger picture ofit.
And it's even looking at statesoutside of Texas that have lost
funding, like Florida lost alltheir arts funding on the state

(40:29):
level because the governorthere.
And that could very much happenin Texas.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Do you want to talk a little bitabout the federal freeze that
happening right now?
What do you think that will dofor Boston?
Who's getting federal money?
I don't know that I have enoughexpertise to talk to it too
much.
And it's also just like 24hours.

(40:50):
Yeah.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Everything's shitty and the country's over.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
No, I don't know.
I don't know.
All of this stuff is so it's sonew.
Like you said, it's like youkind of just have to wait for it
to shake out.
And I don't know.
I

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
read a really good thing.

SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
Unfortunately, how much we can do on this ground
level.
It's like trying to find anorganization of our size.
It can only be accountable forthe community.
Yeah.
You know, it's like that's whereI think we try to hold our
focus.
There are people who are relyingon us to provide certain
services and events and thingswhere they can make money and

(41:29):
they can make connections.
And it's it's hard to see.
Like a future beyond that.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Well, I read something yesterday because I've
been getting text messages and,you know, friends reaching out,
too, because we're all we're allat least people in my circle in
the same boat.
Everybody's it's hard right now.
But I read this and it was fromsociologist Jennifer Walter
about what is happening in thecountry right now.
But I'll only pick out a fewthings.

(41:57):
But it was saying.
Feeling overwhelmed is thepoint.
When you recognize this, youregain some power.
Take breaks, process.
This is a marathon.
Practice going slow.
Wait 48 hours before reacting tonew policies.
The urgent clouds the important.
Initial reporting often missescontext.
So I think to just let meprocess and they give other

(42:17):
really good ways to.
I like the wait 48 hours beforeyou react.
Yeah, that's why I was like, Idon't know.
Like obviously bad initialsalways like.
That's a horrible, that's awful.
Yeah.
But that's what it's supposed todo.
Exactly.
It's a shock and awe.
Yeah, they called it, it waslike shock agency or something
like that.
Like that's the purpose of justlike barreling down these things

(42:38):
right now on us.

SPEAKER_01 (42:39):
There's a certain power and controlling the
emotion and then like focusingon what you know you're good at
and you know helps people aroundyou.
Because yeah, a lot of that islike you know, you get shocked
and then you feel like, oh no, Ican't do anything.
I'm powerless.
And then you don't do anything.
And then that doesn't helpanybody.

SPEAKER_00 (42:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
So that's how you like tear community apart.

SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
Yeah.
Which is what they want.
But it was kind of like evenfinding people in your own
circles that could focus oncertain things so that you guys
don't, you individually don'thave to focus on everything.
So almost like, yeah, what areyou?
And then coming together andsharing that information.

UNKNOWN (43:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
It's a lot.

UNKNOWN (43:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Needless to say, I'm going to wait 48 hours for my

SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
response.
Yeah, ask us again 48

SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
hours.
So tomorrow.
I've definitely already rantedabout it.
I've reacted.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know y'all are figuringthis out, but what are some of
the goals that you've beentalking about for 2025?
Yeah, we have some conversationsto have.
Zach keeps reminding me.

(43:41):
First would be, so direction ofthe business in terms of space,
where...
Are we going to be, can we get amore permanent resolution and
who would we be with in thatspace?
So that's a big goal, answeringthat question.

SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
Yeah.
Find something

SPEAKER_00 (43:59):
affordable, useful

SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
with a good landlord who cares about what we're doing
and sees the value in it beyondstrict dollars.

SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:10):
And something that's like actually a long-term lease,
you know, like five years ormore.

SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
How long is this one?

SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Two.
We had two years and then werenewed it for two years and
then it got sold.
And so, yeah, the ideal is likea five-year lease because then
all the stuff that you do tobuild out and like customize it,
it feels like such a burden todo that again every two years,
going back to that burnout.
But if you can create a spacethat's well-designed and works

(44:38):
and functions, you know, almostlike that template where...
People can come in.
And that's what we focused onlast year was like creating a
template so that people couldrent from us at a low cost and
we could help them create like areally, really great gallery
show or a really great concert.
And so like adding almost likementorship piece into it through
the template made it way easierfor us to do more while

(45:01):
personally being able toaccomplish more outside of that.
So I think keeping that up andlike, you know, iterating on
that wherever we end up nextwould be.
Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
We're always evaluating all the sectors of
our business and trying tofigure out, it's not just money,
but it's just like, yeah, whichones are most impactful?
Which ones cost us more thanthey make?
Which ones do we really lovedoing?
Which ones are sustainable?
So we do that every quarter atleast.
This year's our 10-yearanniversary.

(45:32):
So really wanting to celebratethat in a way, still figuring
out what that could look liketoo.
Do y'all think y'all would make10 years?
No, I don't.
Well, like not

SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
like.
I only threatened to quit liketwice a year, every year from
the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 (45:48):
Sounds so awful.
It's not like I was like, we'llnever make it.
No, no, no.
It

SPEAKER_01 (45:53):
was like, I'm going to go do something else

SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
in two years.
We shouldn't have long termplans.
I mean, I didn't I didn't haveany plan.
So anything I could haveaccomplished for 10 years is
great.

SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
Because I.
I like to switch around what Ido.

SPEAKER_01 (46:08):
Yeah, there's a lot of like key milestones this year
that we can celebrate indifferent ways.
Yeah, I think we'll have somesort of event series going
through it.
Whether there's like, you know,I think we got our party at the
People's House.
I think will be a goodcollaboration version of it.

(46:29):
We're doing that City Hall eventagain, which was awesome last
year.
But I think that'll be like acool milestone for us as like a,
you know, org that just hit 10years.
And then maybe something at thevery end of the year, because
technically we started thebusiness in 2015.
But the first issue of themagazine actually came out
January 1st, 2016.
So New Year's, having some sortof New Year's party where we

(46:53):
launch whatever the...
current generation of AlmostReal Things publication is.
This is,

SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
again, a Zach idea that I just heard of and I'm
like.

SPEAKER_01 (47:02):
We're pitching

SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
it.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (47:05):
Live pitch.
So anyway, that's confirmed.
Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 (47:08):
Yeah, definitely happening.
And then Touch the Art, Imentioned.
So we got the Elevate grant forTouch the Art.
This is the third year we'redoing that program.
I've expanded it.
That was really like my thingand and what I put a lot of my
focus into.
So it's a mentorship program aswell as this immersive
experience so that the open callis going on right now and we'll

(47:32):
continue.
We'll start that programming upin a couple of weeks.
Yeah, that's exciting.
Zach, you mentioned the burnout.
Do you have any...
Do you do anything to make surethat doesn't happen?
No,

SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 (47:45):
Zach doesn't?
I don't know...
Zach is like a very rare breedthat doesn't get anxiety or
doesn't show anxiety.
I really honestly don't thinkyou get anxiety in the same way.
So just is always working andloves it.

SPEAKER_01 (48:01):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many things that I'm
excited about.
And I love like the opportunityto turn my focus to any one of
them at any point in time.
So I think that helps is likehaving always having an outlet,
but the outlet is still withinme.
the umbrella of almost realthings.
So I'm technically not beingunproductive.
I'm just being differentlyproductive.

(48:24):
And I feel like that becomesannoying sometimes.
But if that's what prevents mefrom burning out and having
anxiety, then that's great.

SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
And again, it's like new ideas, I feel like for you,
because sometimes it's like, Istayed up all night last night
and I have this giant pitch andit's probably something we won't
do.
But that was like a way to shiftyour focus and get all the
things out of your head.

SPEAKER_01 (48:46):
In December, that was a mini-mart idea that I
wanted to start at 2324 Lobby.
I wanted to see how much wecould get done with$20,000.
And then I was like, okay, well,that's not the focus.

SPEAKER_00 (49:03):
That's maybe how we bought the bus.
That's

SPEAKER_01 (49:06):
how we bought the bus.

SPEAKER_00 (49:07):
Yeah, it was literally a text on a morning
that said...
I read, Zach said, I found abus.
It's in Houston.
I'm going to go get it today.
And then didn't answer my text.
So I'm going to go look at it.

SPEAKER_01 (49:17):
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
yeah.
And then bought it, though, thesame day.
But you know what that meant.
You know what that meant.
Yeah.
That

SPEAKER_01 (49:23):
was the second one that I looked at.
So you knew that it was top

SPEAKER_00 (49:25):
of mind.
I knew we were looking for abus.

SPEAKER_01 (49:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:28):
But I didn't know the size of the bus until I saw
this one, which is, it's not aschool bus.
If anybody's wondering, it's a45-foot coach bus from the city
of Or from Houston.
Yeah.
But yeah, that was, I think wehad one conversation on the
phone when he was seeing it andkind of just being like, it's
really good.
And I knew, there's always apoint I'm like, there's nothing

(49:50):
I could say that would convincehim it wasn't a good idea.
So I just go, okay, do yourthing.
That's the thing about goodideas.

SPEAKER_01 (49:58):
They're good.

SPEAKER_00 (49:59):
So Zach, has it been confirmed that it was a good
idea?

SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
yeah.
I do confirm it was a good

SPEAKER_01 (50:05):
idea.
Yeah.
So we had been doing bus toursand renting buses for the Austin
Studio Tour is when we starteddoing it.
We did it for like the West whenthey had that and did for East.
Then we did a couple others thatwere like for private parties.
Natalie was giving tours ofBoston.
murals on the east side.
I was giving tours from theCapitol to Sixth Street, just

(50:26):
walking tours at that point.
So we had that like knowledge ofwhat people wanted to hear and
what they were interested in.
Turn that into the bus model.
Couldn't really make any moneyto keep the tickets affordable
while renting a bus.
There wasn't just Like there'snot a lot of margin in there.

SPEAKER_00 (50:43):
Rentals are really expensive.
Just like with space.
Like whenever we rent a venue,it's the majority of the money.

SPEAKER_01 (50:48):
And we understand that there's like a lot of
maintenance that goes into, youknow, keeping a vehicle like
that.
But it made so much more senseto buy one than rent again for
the two or three gigs that wehad in 2022 when we got it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whatever.
It's made its money back.
It was worth it was worthwhile.

(51:09):
And yeah.
And so and then it's also coolbecause it's gotten us to the
point where people will rent thebus, but they want more than one
and we don't have more than one.
So then we partner with thepeople that we had rented with
before and can scale to have awhole fleet for.
We have like a conference comingup end of next month.
So they're they're renting threethrough us and we still get to

(51:32):
manage this experience together.
of it and create that like fun,almost real things vibe through
it all.
But

SPEAKER_00 (51:39):
it's a great plan B too.
Like if we lose our space, allof our spaces, we own this bus.
We can go fully mobile.
Not the plan, but a good plan B.

SPEAKER_01 (51:52):
Yeah, we'll have to like...

SPEAKER_00 (51:53):
There's a lifeline.
Outfit it

SPEAKER_01 (51:55):
with armor and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (51:58):
We could go places on that bus.
We're going places.

SPEAKER_01 (52:02):
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (52:03):
yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (52:04):
They can't stop us.

SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
We're coming.

SPEAKER_01 (52:09):
We don't drive the bus, by the way.
We have drivers that we'vebecome really good friends with.
But every time we're driving,it's like this sense of power.
It's like we're a bus.

SPEAKER_00 (52:19):
It's very funny.
It's a magic carpet ride.
If I see this from the outside,which I rarely do because I'm on
the bus, but the times I'vedriven my own car and seen it,
I'm like, this is crazy.
This is so weird.

SPEAKER_01 (52:32):
Our drivers are so funny, too.
It's crazy the things thatpeople in much smaller cars will
do in front of a bus.
And the conversations are alwaysso entertaining.
We've never been in a dangeroussituation, but people will just
cut you off and do...
the most reckless things andyou're like, I'm in a bus.

(52:54):
You did that?
Yeah.
This thing is 400,000 pounds ofpure power.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:02):
It's also on a city bus.
You probably wouldn't get hit bya city bus.
What happens again?
Oh, I don't know.
Or it's like maybe I'm paying aUT.
If you get hit by a UT bus, youget free tuition or something.
Oh my gosh.
I gotta go walk around.
They educate

SPEAKER_01 (53:16):
your wounds away?

SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
Yeah, exactly.
I gotta go walk around campus.
Not campus, the streets.
It's not that kind of bus.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:24):
No.
Yeah.
There's no perks.

SPEAKER_00 (53:26):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
We could give them art.

SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
Yeah.
If

SPEAKER_01 (53:29):
they got hit.
Yeah.
But it would be their faultbecause our drivers are the
best.

SPEAKER_00 (53:34):
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
So I have what I call rapid firequestions.
Okay.
But that seems to stress peopleout.
So don't stress out.
Just, you know, kind of thefirst thing that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 (53:45):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (53:47):
So Natalie, what's on your bedside table right now?
rocks like a light sound machineand books what kind of books i'm
reading three in the process ofreading three one is called
breath about breathing exercisesand studies of breathing yeah
one is breath making airsomething is that the full title

(54:07):
it's just breath okay

SPEAKER_01 (54:08):
That's the sequel,

SPEAKER_00 (54:09):
probably.
One is a book on Buddhism.
And then one is Jerry Salt's Artis Life.
Oh, yeah.
An art critic book.
I'm always like half into manybooks.
He was just in town, wasn't he?
I saw him at the Blanton speak.
Yeah.
It was very interesting, funnytalk.
So bought the book.
Signed it.

(54:29):
Nice.
That's cool.
Yeah.
What about you, Zach?
What's on your bedside table?

SPEAKER_01 (54:32):
Flamingo.

SPEAKER_00 (54:33):
Like a tall one?

SPEAKER_01 (54:34):
No, a flamingo koozie.

SPEAKER_00 (54:36):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
But it's on this platform that I bought and it
levitates based on electromagnetand it lights up.

SPEAKER_00 (54:43):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
It's pretty

SPEAKER_00 (54:44):
cool.
Is it pink?
Yes.
Okay.
I'm pointing to it.
It's just like that one,

SPEAKER_01 (54:50):
but that one doesn't float.

SPEAKER_00 (54:51):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (54:52):
So mine's way cooler.

SPEAKER_00 (54:52):
Well, that floats in water.

SPEAKER_01 (54:54):
Oh yeah.
It floats in water, but itdoesn't float in air.

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you like flamingos?

SPEAKER_01 (54:59):
I love flamingos.
Yeah.
I think they're really cool.

SPEAKER_00 (55:02):
Are you familiar with them?
It's Top Hat now, I think.
No, is it?
Yeah.
On 22-22, that used to be allFlamingos.
The place that used to have,like, from 360, like, all the
way up to there on that hill.

SPEAKER_01 (55:16):
Oh, wow.
I don't think I ever saw that.

SPEAKER_00 (55:19):
Yeah.
I don't think it was around2015.

SPEAKER_01 (55:20):
Where'd they all go?

SPEAKER_00 (55:22):
They sold out to the...
Is it Top Hat?
Is that, like, kind of chainwith burgers?

SPEAKER_01 (55:28):
Top

SPEAKER_00 (55:28):
Notch?
Top Golf?
No.
No.
That's not burgers.
What?

SPEAKER_01 (55:33):
Topgolf?
I'm sure they serve burgersthere.

SPEAKER_00 (55:36):
Chain with burgers.

SPEAKER_01 (55:38):
Top.

SPEAKER_00 (55:38):
Does it have the word top in it?
I think so.
Top dog.
I don't know.
People like bringing their kids

SPEAKER_01 (55:43):
there.
Yeah.
Burger King.

SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
No.
Let's just keep going now.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (55:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:51):
Okay.
So which artist do you have youreye on right now?
I need to look up.
names.
There are two I met at HangerArt Studios.
You can look them up.
Yeah.
During the East Austin StudioTours.
One of them paints such detailedpictures of garbage of like the
things people leave on the sideof the road.

(56:12):
Yeah.
Which I loved.
And then the other one, he wasthe other artist.
He was using a lot of texture.
So I thought he'd be great fortouch art.
And he does really muted colors.
If I can find the names, I will.
And Zach can look it up.
Obviously, there's plenty offriends.
We just were very lucky to comeback from New Orleans to go get

(56:33):
a tour with some other Austinartists and New Orleans artists
of the Prospect Triennial fromthe executive director.
So it's a three-year process,but they're commissioning
artists from all over and havingthem build installations and
public art and pieces that areplaced all over New New Orleans,

(56:54):
you know, in galleries andmuseums outside, in bars.
It's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
Hannah Shalu was an artist who was part of Prospect
Six in New Orleans.
And she was in the contemporarymuseum of New Orleans and
created this incredible likepond installation just in the
middle of like a wood floormuseum.

(57:20):
You know, it had running waterpipes and all sorts of live
plants, plants that she hadcreated.

SPEAKER_00 (57:27):
She made the paper.

SPEAKER_01 (57:28):
She made the paper for the leaves of the plants.
So it's like full circle.
I guess it's still a real plant.

SPEAKER_00 (57:36):
There's

SPEAKER_01 (57:39):
pipes everywhere from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 (57:42):
I love making paper.

SPEAKER_01 (57:43):
Yeah.
Worked with a perfumer to createa scent that was all part of the
meaning of the piece was kind oflike, you know, nature
reclaiming.

SPEAKER_00 (57:53):
Yeah, it's like when humans were gone, what would be
left were these like veryindustrial parts and then nature
reclaiming.
Yes, it's

SPEAKER_01 (57:59):
like trash in the piece, but it still looks like
beautiful.
You know, I would live there inher little pond.
But I think, yeah, she said thescent had like methane in it or
like

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
very small.

SPEAKER_01 (58:09):
Yeah, like small traces of whatever chemicals
because it's like, you know,we're going to leave a mark for
a little bit.
Once we're all gone.
Nail polish.
Yeah, there's some nail polish.
But I thought that piece wassuper inspiring.
And I was like, I got to buildone of these in my house.

SPEAKER_00 (58:26):
During the awesome studio tours, we went to Hanger
Art Studios.
Ella Nielsen mostly runs thatspace.
But there were two artiststhere.
I hadn't seen their work before.
Jason Webb.
He does these like incrediblydetailed, you know, watercolor,
I think, gouache of the trashthat people are leaving outside.
And he has this large paintingof like a junkyard.

(58:50):
And it is one of the mostdetailed pieces I've ever seen.
I can't imagine how long it tookand the tiniest of brushes.
And then Anthony VaughnPatterson, his work is more
abstract, geometric.
had a lot of texture to it.
I thought he could be a good fitfor Touch the Arts.
These two artists, if you putthem next to each other, such

(59:12):
different styles.
So I don't know that I have astyle I love.
I was just drawn to both ofthem.
Again, one more minimal andbold.
And then this other one that'sextremely detailed.
But he was using a lot ofnegative space as well.
So those two...
In Austin recently, I'd like tohave conversations with them.

(59:32):
If you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 (59:36):
Hit my DMs.

SPEAKER_00 (59:37):
First heard it here.
Okay.
What is your favorite place toeat in Austin?
There's so many.
Okay.
I'll say we usually love to dosome late night business
meetings, business in quotes.
No, those

SPEAKER_01 (59:52):
are business legally.

UNKNOWN (59:53):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (59:53):
Yeah, you're right.
Sorry.
Business meetings.
Me, Zach, and Joey Cruz, who'slike another member of Almost
Real Things, at TaqueriaSarandinas on Riverside.
It has to be that one.
It has to be the Riverside one.
They have the best salsa.
We get so much chips and salsa.
Although now,

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:14):
I'm

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:15):
just going to say, they started charging for extra
chips.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:18):
It's okay.
It's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:19):
It's worth it.
That's fine.
It was a tragedy when we wentthere last.
For the amount

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:23):
of chips that we eat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:27):
It's a lot.
They put the chip back on the,or the tray on the table.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:30):
And we order more when they put it out.
In 30 seconds, those are gone.
It's your fault.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:34):
Yeah, I think

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:35):
it's our fault.
It might.
Our motto is mas jeeps, likejust to cross the board.
So Taquerias Arninas onRiverside is one of my
favorites.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:45):
Mm-hmm.
I mean, that's, that's thebusiness answer.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:48):
Yeah.
Right there.
If you'd like to sponsor us,Taqueria.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:54):
Serving Autentico Mexicano since 19...
For a while.
96.
Okay.
I'm going to look it up now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:03):
Where's their other location?
Oh, they have like 17 of them,but I don't know if they're

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:06):
all the same owner.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:08):
Yeah, it's hard to say because somewhere like
Taqueria is around us.
Pretty much...
Zach, Joey, and I will goanywhere with a lot of chips and
salsa.
Are they 24 hours?
Or why are they up so late?
No, they're late.
I don't know.
I mean, they're on Riverside.
3 a.m.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:21):
Most of the time, pretty late.
It's because they know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:23):
They know we're coming.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:24):
Yeah, there are kind

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:25):
of people, for sure.
Well, that's been a theme afterCOVID is a lot of 24-hour places
aren't 24 hours.
I know.
24, diner, hello.
God, it's

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:33):
like, rename yourself.
So embarrassing.
Figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:36):
And Magnolia?
Yeah.
When you said, like, Latenights, I can only think of
maybe like three places that youwould be going to, which is
weird.
Yeah, it's sad because I'm anight person for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:49):
Saps is dope.
Yeah.
Love saps.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:52):
And it's good.
I don't know, do you like Thaifood?
I love Thai food.
Yeah, it's good.
What was the other places?
I think they were all Thaiplaces.
Well, Star Seeds was good, butyou know, 35, expansion just
moved them.
I don't know if they're having anew location yet.
I know.
I need to find all these newplaces.
I know.
Like Texas Thrift moved.
Mm-hmm.

(01:02:12):
Yeah.
The Rocks.
Rocks.
Yeah.
I don't know where they are.
They did move.
I just don't know where theyare.
Mostly, yeah.
Mostly taco places is whereOye's Great Truck, Ancisa
Chavez, Las Trancas, El Primoover here.
So what did you find, Zach?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:28):
Arredinas opened June 7th, 1999.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:32):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:32):
Thanks, Mr.
Ignacio Sevilla and Miss RosieSevilla.
Must cheaps.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:39):
Yeah.
Our last words.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:42):
Yeah, I hope I can have the memory to make that my
last phrase.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:48):
Okay, so my last question always is, do you think
artists need to struggle fortheir art?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:54):
No, no one needs to struggle.
You need to learn, but you don'tneed to struggle.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:59):
Yeah, struggle's a hard one because it's like
struggle financially, strugglementally, struggle physically.
You gotta put people down

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:06):
so that they learn, you know?
You gotta smother them and makesure they don't make any money
and abuse them.
And if they grow after that,it's fine.
Yeah, and if they grow afterthat...
I think there's just inherentstruggle

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:18):
in human existence.
I

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:21):
guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:22):
Like, inevitably, everyone will struggle to make
good art.
Struggle might not be the rightword.
But I do think being thoughtfuland intentional, and I think
that comes with experience,which again, whatever prompts
you to have those experiences.
It's

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:40):
like having the confidence to invest in yourself
and know that you're not, youdon't have to struggle, but you
have to know what you wantenough to go get it and like to
learn how to get it.
And I think, I don't know, forus, it feels like that was our
college experience.
Yeah.
I think that was a lot of liketrying to figure out what we
were doing and what we wanted tofocus on.

(01:04:02):
And then in college, it feltlike we blossomed in a certain
way where it was like, oh, youknow, I found things that I'm
really excited about.
And while I'm not very good atthem at this point, I want to be
good at them.
And then you're surrounded bypeople who are also not very
good at them.
But together, like, I'm sure wewould have called it a struggle

(01:04:23):
at that point, but it wasn'tlike...
bad.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:26):
Yeah.
I don't think.
That's also kind of bravery tolike work on something you're
bad at, like having the courageto do something you're bad at.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:36):
Yeah.
And then you see all thesepeople who are like doing
whatever skill really well.
And you're like, oh, you know,just the understanding that they
were probably in the same placethat you were.
And the only way they ever cameout of that struggle was
practice and knowledge andmeeting cool people and having
good opportunities and makingmoney.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:56):
Well, that's all I have.
Thanks for talking to me, y'all.
Thank you so much.
This was so much fun.
Have a

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:03):
good time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:05):
Creative Money ATX