July 23, 2023 • 21 mins
Creativity, the learning process, and the mesmerizing world of pottery.
In this bonus episode I’m joined by Creativity Found Collective member Kelly Drewett and friend of Creativity Found Carola Moon, as we visit the pottery studio of fellow Collective member Debbie Page.
You’ll hear about how Debbie makes her moon jars – and what they are – as well as a little pottery history.
We discuss everything from the unique ways people manipulate clay to the often overlooked importance of the table as a creative tool. The power of human hands in shaping clay and eliciting emotion through pottery forms is also explored, leading us to the understanding of how compression can help achieve the perfect texture.
We also start plotting our next Creativity Catchup featuring a few more members and their creative classes.
CreativityFound.co.uk
Debbie Page at creativityfound.co.uk
Kelly Drewett at creativityfound.co.uk
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Facebook: @creativityfoundpodcast and Creativity Found group
Pinterest: @creativityfound
Twitter: @creativityfoun
Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
Artworks: Emily Portnoi emilyportnoi.co.uk Photo: Ella Pallet
Affordably advertise on this podcast by emailing claire@creativityfound.co.uk, or book a call here.
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Podcast recorded with Riverside and hosted by Buzzsprout
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We have clay objects from at least 30,000 years ago
that are identifiably female.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
But also, like you said earlier, it's just you find
certain things boring And Ithink, why not go for whatever
you find more stimulating?
You know, it's your time, it'syour energy.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's just fascinating how you can give a pound of
clay to 12 people and you'll get15 different things, and I just
find that absolutelyfascinating.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But a lot of people say to me things like, oh, i
can't draw, i'll never be ableto draw, and things like that.
But you could if you practice.
If you were going to try andbuild a website, you'd have to
practice, or do it or learn, andit's exactly the same
creativity, isn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi, i'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a
community for creative learnersand educators, connecting adults
who want to find a creativeoutlet with the artists and
crafters who can help them do sowith workshops, courses, online
events and kits.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or
(01:22):
re-found their creativity asadults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the arts, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the two
.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
their new found artisticpursuits and how their creative
(01:44):
lives enrich their practical,necessary everyday lives.
In this bonus episode, i'mjoined by Creativity Found
Collective member Kelly Druittand friend of Creativity Found,
carol LeMune, as we visit thePottery Studio of fellow
Collective member, debbie Page.
Kelly lived in France but wasvisiting the UK and, of course,
(02:08):
we wanted to meet up for thefirst time in real life.
Since Kelly could easily get atrain from Bristol, where she
was staying, to Reading, i knewI had the perfect location for
us to meet and have a minicreativity catch-up.
In this episode you'll hearabout how Debbie makes her moon
jars and what they are, as wellas a little pottery history plus
(02:30):
details of Debbie's teaching.
We also start plotting our nextcreativity catch-up, featuring
a few more members and theircreative classes.
So how do you build Debbie?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right, how do I build ?
I'm a handbuilder so I canthrow.
I teach throwing.
I find throwing boring, so Ihand build.
So that means I pinch clay, icoil clay, i also roll out slabs
, occasionally as well.
What's coiling?
Coiling is where you get apiece of clay and you roll it
(03:06):
into a sausage.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, and then you can build like that.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So do you want to have a feel Like instant litter?
Some people refuse to take it.
fair enough, but anyone whogets it is instantly squishing
it, They don't just go theyinstantly squeeze it, and there
(03:34):
is something really fundamentalabout human beings manipulating
what's in their hands, and thisis easily manipulatable.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I'm trying to stop now.
I thought I was going to get tohead off.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No no, keep going.
So a coil of clay is formed byI try to.
This sounds daft, but we haveclay objects from at least
30,000 years ago that areidentifiably female.
(04:06):
It isn't just a blob thatsomeone's got.
Oh, there's a fingerprint there.
They must have manipulated.
They're called the Venuses ofWischendorf, sort of very, very
Eastern Europe, germany, hungarysort of area.
They're about so big, big head,no face.
Obviously they can do faces, ican't do faces.
(04:28):
I'm with them on that butthey've got hair you can see
they've got hair, big boobs, bigpregnant belly, so obviously
female.
and there isn't just one.
Even if we only had one, thatwasn't that person's first rodeo
on that piece of clay, they'ddone it before, because
everything's in proportion.
So, 30,000 years ago you didhave saber tooth tigers and
(04:51):
mammoths running around, even inCentral Europe.
You know life expectancy 30, 35And they had the time to look
at a human body and go.
That's spine tingling stuff tome.
But they didn't have tables.
So in Africa they actually coil.
(05:20):
Yes, Natural.
You know there is something,whether you believe in sort of
you know, cultural memory andall that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, something really weird can happen when you
give someone a piece of clay.
It's the same, actually, if yougive people a stick.
They will Bend it, break offbits, twist it, pull off the
bottom.
I mean, they're manipulating itAs well.
So it's not just clay, but youknow, clay is up there.
So we These days, because wehave tables as technology which
(05:59):
would freeze people Table is apiece of technology, so you just
coil them out and then, as yousay, you put them into Mounds.
Like that you get them into twohalves.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So you use a mold?
I wouldn't just start Anything.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean this, these, this one here I've made.
There's two pieces of claywearing a weighing 160 grams
each.
I don't need a mold for thatsize because it fits my hand.
Yeah, i'm using clay of 250grams per half.
I need a mold Because my handsare big enough to be, So it's
(06:38):
size.
Yeah and then when you've gotthe two halves and you stick
them together and you blendacross the, the drawings, yeah,
and then what I do to get rid ofall those lumps when you can
smooth it over your finger thana stick Takes forever.
but going back to my tabletechnology, if I roll it gently,
if I roll it gently, you cansee all the core, all the lumps
(07:03):
and bumps.
Appearing, yes, disappearing.
It is also compressing the clay.
Clay works best when it'sreally squished And although it
would have been squished a bitwhen I was rolling, it squished
a bit more when I was Join inthe sides.
There's nothing like a bit morecompression to really make it
(07:23):
even Stronger.
And then I made this yesterdayevening.
It would have been shrinkingClay shrinks and it means that
although it's not airtight, theair pressure in there is a
little higher than the airpressure I hear.
So when I push I can push alittle harder than if it was
just a Flat piece of clay and Idon't make as much denting.
(07:44):
So I can use that and reallyget rid of all those naughty
little lumps and bumps that arehappening, and then I can shape
it.
So you know, my moon jarsaround, but they are.
I'm not bothered if they'rePerfectly spherical.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, something nice about.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, yes, the creator , the moon jars come originally
from Korea.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
It was more squishy than I was expecting.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It looks really fine.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
It looks like it's a whole filled thing, which I know
it isn't, but even so it comesup lighter and then actually you
can feel the movement Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
In the ball of clay?
Oh, yes, how fun, are they?
It's what you expect and whatit really is.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It feels like an Easter egg, almost That kind of
thing.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes, Yes, just passing a ball of clay around.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So the Koreans have always been incredibly good
potters and in about the 1650sthey finally came out from
underneath China's yoke and hada big renaissance of cultural
craft, arts and things, and theydevised ways of throwing
porcelain pots that I can't putmy arms around.
(09:07):
Bear in mind, there's a 20%shrinkage rate on porcelain, so
it would have been even bigger.
They threw them in two halvesand put them together and
they've come up with three mainshapes that are traditional,
spherical, which for some reasonthis year are more spherical
than normal.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And these you call the moon jars.
These are called moon jars.
Originally they were calledwait for it, big branding
opportunity here in Korea, bigjars 1650s.
Marketing didn't really kick inLater they started to be called
moon because they were white.
And Koreans also have a culturalinfluence of the moon.
(09:50):
The moon is very important tothem And they.
I understand that.
For me too, i've got that.
So they're called moon jars,but they can be spherical.
Teardrop speaks for itself.
All my favourite wobbly.
How wobbly.
Wobbly is an official shape.
I mean.
You know, that's brilliant.
It's brilliant for two reasons.
(10:10):
First of all, it means I canmake moon jars, and they're a
bit wobbly, they're still moonjars.
Second, a culture that allowsfor the fact Yeah, that is Yeah,
not perfect.
Yeah, but it has got to have a.
Let me go for it anyway.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
We just need to interject and Karola's going to
tell us what her name is.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
My son's name is Moon .
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I didn't know.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So you had to come today.
I did.
But, you didn't even know, didyou?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I didn't know it was moon jars.
It was your friend.
You just got done.
Just now you can go.
No, karola's name is Moon AndKarola.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's definitely her wonderful, or the moon's,
the moon's alive, the moon's Theplanet was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
See, I'm not very good at getting that very long
in the air.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No, this is the problem with.
There is no drop in her clay,if you were.
This is the problem that youfind they only go so long.
You can make pretty much anyshape you want from this.
Because the air pressure isslightly higher inside.
I could tap this into a cone.
I could tap this into a square.
If I had the inclination at thetime, i could make a
dodecahedron.
Yeah, what's that?
(11:27):
12 sided Okay.
The best sort of thing, whichI'm not going to do because
that's, you know, boring.
So you know it's a veryadaptable technique And I'm
teaching this technique is thebasis of It's.
Obviously it's decorative.
It could be a little moon jar.
If you make it square, it canbe a little pot.
(11:48):
You can cut the top off andmake it into a lid.
You could top the top third offand make it into a cup.
You can make it into a sort ofteardrop shape and that's really
good for things like penguins,yeah, and birds and stuff.
You could stick a handle hereand a spout there and a lid
there and you could go to teapot.
It's a really adaptable startingpoint for people to actually
(12:13):
start when they're starting downthere.
Pottery world.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Pottery still looks down on hand builders.
If you're a sculptor, theyunderstand that.
You know you take bits and goand you slap it on.
But they do look down on pinchpots, on coiling and stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So when you call yourself a potter, then that's
on the wheel.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Well, no, i call myself a potter because I work
with clay.
I make pots, you know.
You can take it back to itsmeaning a potter makes pots But
throwers.
It's interesting, manyhandbuilders can throw a bit
Really good.
Throwers can rarely hand build.
It really is.
(12:54):
I mean, i can remember goingand seeing a very famous potter
called Matthew Blakey.
He did a brilliant project.
He went to every county.
He got funding to do this.
He went to every county inEngland and Wales and took clay
and made a pot and a glaze fromthat clay.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Put it in a big touring exhibition.
Brilliant idea, love it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, and he came to do a talk about Halfway Through
and he was telling us about thisparticular clay fad which was
awful to throw with.
So I said, well, why don't youhand build it?
And his face was like I'd askedhim to kill his firstborn.
I'm only suggesting anotheralternative making method, you
know, really just lighten up.
(13:36):
He could have said well, no, iwant them all thrown, because
then they're all thrown, yeahthey're all hand, but yeah.
Yeah, But it was like reallyAnd it's real shame because this
came first.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
This came first.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know, throwing was invented about 5,000 years
ago.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You wouldn't get those shapes with throwing You
would, you would And I could getthose shapes.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I can get those shapes, That's not a problem.
It's just how I choose not towork.
It's the same way you say youwork occasionally in Equinix.
You might use work somethingelse.
You've got to use somethingelse.
You know our creative outletshave to take different formats
because we're all differentpeople And mine is using clay
without technology.
(14:29):
I mean, I have turned up to ademonstration and I'd forgotten
my tools.
All I had was my chopstick andI made teapots all day just
using my chopstick.
So you can make reallytechnical, highly technical
things with very, very little.
I didn't even have to have thechopstick.
(14:50):
I could have made it without.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
But now we know why David was chopstick.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
The hair came first, not the pot.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But also, like you said earlier, it's just you find
certain things boring And Ithink why not go for whatever
you find more stimulating?
You know, it's your time, it'syour energy, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Absolutely.
It's just fascinating how youcan give a pound of clay to 12
people and you'll get 15different things, and I just
find that absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Even now.
I've got a little bowl, We'vegot a little square.
I put mine down.
What is that?
A sandwich, it's a I forget.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It could be a little bit.
you know I've seen people tryand you know a couple hundred
quid of.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Yes, it's abstract.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
It's actually Beauties in the heart of the
heart.
I'm still learning how to workthis stuff, and I've been
playing with it since I was 13years old.
Okay, it's been absolutelyForever learning, forever,
learning.
When I'm teaching I get I do geta little bit niggled when
people want to be able to tomaster something straight away.
(16:09):
They don't have the patience.
You know, when I tell them ittook me three years to learn to
throw And, believe me, i washighly motivated to learn to
throw.
I then went and did a city andgirls diploma and came out a
mould making hand builder.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
With craft and, i'm sure, art, paint, paint, you
know, brushes and pencils andthings you have to put the time
in to get it back, don't you.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
There is something about, i think.
Sometimes people get impatientbecause they don't enjoy the
process, they don't enjoy thedoing, and I think that is like
Either you have that interest orthat it somehow stimulates you,
that you want to like continuedoing it, or if not, then yeah,
it's not your thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
But then don't make it wrong that you're not an
expert after day one, yeah, Buta lot of people say to me things
like oh, i can't draw, i'llnever be able to draw, and
things like that.
Well, you could if you practice.
If you were going to try andbuild a website, you'd have to
practice or do it or learn, andit's exactly the same creativity
, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, But the only thing we never have to learn to
do is to breathe.
That's instinctive.
We have to learn to walk.
We have to learn to feedourselves, to brush our teeth,
comb our hair, everything.
We have to learn how to do it.
So you know, give yourself abreak, sort of thing.
When I teach you, i don't.
(17:41):
If someone comes in and I wantto throw, i get a bit strict and
say no, i want you to handbuild first week, because it's
going to be six, seven weeksbefore you get anything that you
want to keep.
I'll want you to keep it thatway, because at least then they
can take something home withthem.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yes, achievement.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
On week three or four , whereas they will not be
taking anything home.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
the first time if they're throwing.
How often do you do theworkshops?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, i teach regularly.
I teach at Woodley Hill House,which is part of Bracknant
Wokium College, i teach inReading And I teach at East
Hendred It's a little villagejust over here, 34 outside
Oxford So, and they're sort ofvery general.
There'll be some hand builders,there'll be some throwers in
(18:28):
there, And of varying amounts oftime, so for complete beginners
to people who've been pottingfor 20 years.
So a whole range of interestsand skills and sort of making
methods.
But then I do one day workshopsat a couple of different venues
And I do those sort of when I'mnot doing my general term time
stuff because I was in the daybasically.
(18:50):
So holiday times.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I'm going to try and get one of those workshops at
some point.
Well, i will, harder living inFrance, but if you're doing, one
day ones.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
There are potters in France that will do them, but
they might just do them inFrench.
Yeah, second language is quitedifficult, but anytime you've
got anything technical there, itmust sort of make it.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's just less enjoyable because you're
thinking about the language aswell.
As well as the.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I think there are one off ones when you're doing
something in the holidays on thechat group and the membership,
how long?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
are you here for Only until Tuesday?
Oh right, Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I've got a thing at Ardington on the 20th of July.
Can't remember what I'm doing,might be teapots.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I don't know what you're doing, Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I feel like I did read you were doing a teapot one
too.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Awesome.
We should try and tie it inwith a printmaking with Jennery
as well.
Who could you have quite?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That would be amazing , creative to follow teachers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah project.
We have clay objects from at least 30,000 years ago
that are identifiably female.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
But also, like you said earlier, it's just you find
certain things boring And Ithink, why not go for whatever
you find more stimulating?
You know, it's your time, it'syour energy.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's just fascinating how you can give a pound of
clay to 12 people and you'll get15 different things, and I just
find that absolutelyfascinating.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But a lot of people say to me things like, oh, i
can't draw, i'll never be ableto draw, and things like that.
But you could if you practice.
If you were going to try andbuild a website, you'd have to
practice, or do it or learn, andit's exactly the same
creativity, isn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi, i'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a
community for creative learnersand educators, connecting adults
who want to find a creativeoutlet with the artists and
crafters who can help them do sowith workshops, courses, online
events and kits.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or
(01:22):
re-found their creativity asadults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the arts, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the two
.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
their new found artisticpursuits and how their creative
(01:44):
lives enrich their practical,necessary everyday lives.
In this bonus episode, i'mjoined by Creativity Found
Collective member Kelly Druittand friend of Creativity Found,
carol LeMune, as we visit thePottery Studio of fellow
Collective member, debbie Page.
Kelly lived in France but wasvisiting the UK and, of course,
(02:08):
we wanted to meet up for thefirst time in real life.
Since Kelly could easily get atrain from Bristol, where she
was staying, to Reading, i knewI had the perfect location for
us to meet and have a minicreativity catch-up.
In this episode you'll hearabout how Debbie makes her moon
jars and what they are, as wellas a little pottery history plus
(02:30):
details of Debbie's teaching.
We also start plotting our nextcreativity catch-up, featuring
a few more members and theircreative classes.
So how do you build Debbie?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right, how do I build ?
I'm a handbuilder so I canthrow.
I teach throwing.
I find throwing boring, so Ihand build.
So that means I pinch clay, icoil clay, i also roll out slabs
, occasionally as well.
What's coiling?
Coiling is where you get apiece of clay and you roll it
(03:06):
into a sausage.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, and then you can build like that.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So do you want to have a feel Like instant litter?
Some people refuse to take it.
fair enough, but anyone whogets it is instantly squishing
it, They don't just go theyinstantly squeeze it, and there
(03:34):
is something really fundamentalabout human beings manipulating
what's in their hands, and thisis easily manipulatable.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I'm trying to stop now.
I thought I was going to get tohead off.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No no, keep going.
So a coil of clay is formed byI try to.
This sounds daft, but we haveclay objects from at least
30,000 years ago that areidentifiably female.
(04:06):
It isn't just a blob thatsomeone's got.
Oh, there's a fingerprint there.
They must have manipulated.
They're called the Venuses ofWischendorf, sort of very, very
Eastern Europe, germany, hungarysort of area.
They're about so big, big head,no face.
Obviously they can do faces, ican't do faces.
(04:28):
I'm with them on that butthey've got hair you can see
they've got hair, big boobs, bigpregnant belly, so obviously
female.
and there isn't just one.
Even if we only had one, thatwasn't that person's first rodeo
on that piece of clay, they'ddone it before, because
everything's in proportion.
So, 30,000 years ago you didhave saber tooth tigers and
(04:51):
mammoths running around, even inCentral Europe.
You know life expectancy 30, 35And they had the time to look
at a human body and go.
That's spine tingling stuff tome.
But they didn't have tables.
So in Africa they actually coil.
(05:20):
Yes, Natural.
You know there is something,whether you believe in sort of
you know, cultural memory andall that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, something really weird can happen when you
give someone a piece of clay.
It's the same, actually, if yougive people a stick.
They will Bend it, break offbits, twist it, pull off the
bottom.
I mean, they're manipulating itAs well.
So it's not just clay, but youknow, clay is up there.
So we These days, because wehave tables as technology which
(05:59):
would freeze people Table is apiece of technology, so you just
coil them out and then, as yousay, you put them into Mounds.
Like that you get them into twohalves.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So you use a mold?
I wouldn't just start Anything.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean this, these, this one here I've made.
There's two pieces of claywearing a weighing 160 grams
each.
I don't need a mold for thatsize because it fits my hand.
Yeah, i'm using clay of 250grams per half.
I need a mold Because my handsare big enough to be, So it's
(06:38):
size.
Yeah and then when you've gotthe two halves and you stick
them together and you blendacross the, the drawings, yeah,
and then what I do to get rid ofall those lumps when you can
smooth it over your finger thana stick Takes forever.
but going back to my tabletechnology, if I roll it gently,
if I roll it gently, you cansee all the core, all the lumps
(07:03):
and bumps.
Appearing, yes, disappearing.
It is also compressing the clay.
Clay works best when it'sreally squished And although it
would have been squished a bitwhen I was rolling, it squished
a bit more when I was Join inthe sides.
There's nothing like a bit morecompression to really make it
(07:23):
even Stronger.
And then I made this yesterdayevening.
It would have been shrinkingClay shrinks and it means that
although it's not airtight, theair pressure in there is a
little higher than the airpressure I hear.
So when I push I can push alittle harder than if it was
just a Flat piece of clay and Idon't make as much denting.
(07:44):
So I can use that and reallyget rid of all those naughty
little lumps and bumps that arehappening, and then I can shape
it.
So you know, my moon jarsaround, but they are.
I'm not bothered if they'rePerfectly spherical.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, something nice about.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, yes, the creator , the moon jars come originally
from Korea.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
It was more squishy than I was expecting.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It looks really fine.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
It looks like it's a whole filled thing, which I know
it isn't, but even so it comesup lighter and then actually you
can feel the movement Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
In the ball of clay?
Oh, yes, how fun, are they?
It's what you expect and whatit really is.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It feels like an Easter egg, almost That kind of
thing.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes, Yes, just passing a ball of clay around.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So the Koreans have always been incredibly good
potters and in about the 1650sthey finally came out from
underneath China's yoke and hada big renaissance of cultural
craft, arts and things, and theydevised ways of throwing
porcelain pots that I can't putmy arms around.
(09:07):
Bear in mind, there's a 20%shrinkage rate on porcelain, so
it would have been even bigger.
They threw them in two halvesand put them together and
they've come up with three mainshapes that are traditional,
spherical, which for some reasonthis year are more spherical
than normal.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And these you call the moon jars.
These are called moon jars.
Originally they were calledwait for it, big branding
opportunity here in Korea, bigjars 1650s.
Marketing didn't really kick inLater they started to be called
moon because they were white.
And Koreans also have a culturalinfluence of the moon.
(09:50):
The moon is very important tothem And they.
I understand that.
For me too, i've got that.
So they're called moon jars,but they can be spherical.
Teardrop speaks for itself.
All my favourite wobbly.
How wobbly.
Wobbly is an official shape.
I mean.
You know, that's brilliant.
It's brilliant for two reasons.
(10:10):
First of all, it means I canmake moon jars, and they're a
bit wobbly, they're still moonjars.
Second, a culture that allowsfor the fact Yeah, that is Yeah,
not perfect.
Yeah, but it has got to have a.
Let me go for it anyway.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
We just need to interject and Karola's going to
tell us what her name is.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
My son's name is Moon .
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I didn't know.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So you had to come today.
I did.
But, you didn't even know, didyou?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I didn't know it was moon jars.
It was your friend.
You just got done.
Just now you can go.
No, karola's name is Moon AndKarola.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's definitely her wonderful, or the moon's,
the moon's alive, the moon's Theplanet was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
See, I'm not very good at getting that very long
in the air.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No, this is the problem with.
There is no drop in her clay,if you were.
This is the problem that youfind they only go so long.
You can make pretty much anyshape you want from this.
Because the air pressure isslightly higher inside.
I could tap this into a cone.
I could tap this into a square.
If I had the inclination at thetime, i could make a
dodecahedron.
Yeah, what's that?
(11:27):
12 sided Okay.
The best sort of thing, whichI'm not going to do because
that's, you know, boring.
So you know it's a veryadaptable technique And I'm
teaching this technique is thebasis of It's.
Obviously it's decorative.
It could be a little moon jar.
If you make it square, it canbe a little pot.
(11:48):
You can cut the top off andmake it into a lid.
You could top the top third offand make it into a cup.
You can make it into a sort ofteardrop shape and that's really
good for things like penguins,yeah, and birds and stuff.
You could stick a handle hereand a spout there and a lid
there and you could go to teapot.
It's a really adaptable startingpoint for people to actually
(12:13):
start when they're starting downthere.
Pottery world.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Pottery still looks down on hand builders.
If you're a sculptor, theyunderstand that.
You know you take bits and goand you slap it on.
But they do look down on pinchpots, on coiling and stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So when you call yourself a potter, then that's
on the wheel.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Well, no, i call myself a potter because I work
with clay.
I make pots, you know.
You can take it back to itsmeaning a potter makes pots But
throwers.
It's interesting, manyhandbuilders can throw a bit
Really good.
Throwers can rarely hand build.
It really is.
(12:54):
I mean, i can remember goingand seeing a very famous potter
called Matthew Blakey.
He did a brilliant project.
He went to every county.
He got funding to do this.
He went to every county inEngland and Wales and took clay
and made a pot and a glaze fromthat clay.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Put it in a big touring exhibition.
Brilliant idea, love it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, and he came to do a talk about Halfway Through
and he was telling us about thisparticular clay fad which was
awful to throw with.
So I said, well, why don't youhand build it?
And his face was like I'd askedhim to kill his firstborn.
I'm only suggesting anotheralternative making method, you
know, really just lighten up.
(13:36):
He could have said well, no, iwant them all thrown, because
then they're all thrown, yeahthey're all hand, but yeah.
Yeah, But it was like reallyAnd it's real shame because this
came first.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
This came first.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know, throwing was invented about 5,000 years
ago.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You wouldn't get those shapes with throwing You
would, you would And I could getthose shapes.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I can get those shapes, That's not a problem.
It's just how I choose not towork.
It's the same way you say youwork occasionally in Equinix.
You might use work somethingelse.
You've got to use somethingelse.
You know our creative outletshave to take different formats
because we're all differentpeople And mine is using clay
without technology.
(14:29):
I mean, I have turned up to ademonstration and I'd forgotten
my tools.
All I had was my chopstick andI made teapots all day just
using my chopstick.
So you can make reallytechnical, highly technical
things with very, very little.
I didn't even have to have thechopstick.
(14:50):
I could have made it without.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
But now we know why David was chopstick.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
The hair came first, not the pot.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But also, like you said earlier, it's just you find
certain things boring And Ithink why not go for whatever
you find more stimulating?
You know, it's your time, it'syour energy, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Absolutely.
It's just fascinating how youcan give a pound of clay to 12
people and you'll get 15different things, and I just
find that absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Even now.
I've got a little bowl, We'vegot a little square.
I put mine down.
What is that?
A sandwich, it's a I forget.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It could be a little bit.
you know I've seen people tryand you know a couple hundred
quid of.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Yes, it's abstract.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
It's actually Beauties in the heart of the
heart.
I'm still learning how to workthis stuff, and I've been
playing with it since I was 13years old.
Okay, it's been absolutelyForever learning, forever,
learning.
When I'm teaching I get I do geta little bit niggled when
people want to be able to tomaster something straight away.
(16:09):
They don't have the patience.
You know, when I tell them ittook me three years to learn to
throw And, believe me, i washighly motivated to learn to
throw.
I then went and did a city andgirls diploma and came out a
mould making hand builder.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
With craft and, i'm sure, art, paint, paint, you
know, brushes and pencils andthings you have to put the time
in to get it back, don't you.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
There is something about, i think.
Sometimes people get impatientbecause they don't enjoy the
process, they don't enjoy thedoing, and I think that is like
Either you have that interest orthat it somehow stimulates you,
that you want to like continuedoing it, or if not, then yeah,
it's not your thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
But then don't make it wrong that you're not an
expert after day one, yeah, Buta lot of people say to me things
like oh, i can't draw, i'llnever be able to draw, and
things like that.
Well, you could if you practice.
If you were going to try andbuild a website, you'd have to
practice or do it or learn, andit's exactly the same creativity
, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, But the only thing we never have to learn to
do is to breathe.
That's instinctive.
We have to learn to walk.
We have to learn to feedourselves, to brush our teeth,
comb our hair, everything.
We have to learn how to do it.
So you know, give yourself abreak, sort of thing.
When I teach you, i don't.
(17:41):
If someone comes in and I wantto throw, i get a bit strict and
say no, i want you to handbuild first week, because it's
going to be six, seven weeksbefore you get anything that you
want to keep.
I'll want you to keep it thatway, because at least then they
can take something home withthem.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yes, achievement.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
On week three or four , whereas they will not be
taking anything home.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
the first time if they're throwing.
How often do you do theworkshops?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, i teach regularly.
I teach at Woodley Hill House,which is part of Bracknant
Wokium College, i teach inReading And I teach at East
Hendred It's a little villagejust over here, 34 outside
Oxford So, and they're sort ofvery general.
There'll be some hand builders,there'll be some throwers in
(18:28):
there, And of varying amounts oftime, so for complete beginners
to people who've been pottingfor 20 years.
So a whole range of interestsand skills and sort of making
methods.
But then I do one day workshopsat a couple of different venues
And I do those sort of when I'mnot doing my general term time
stuff because I was in the daybasically.
(18:50):
So holiday times.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I'm going to try and get one of those workshops at
some point.
Well, i will, harder living inFrance, but if you're doing, one
day ones.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
There are potters in France that will do them, but
they might just do them inFrench.
Yeah, second language is quitedifficult, but anytime you've
got anything technical there, itmust sort of make it.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's just less enjoyable because you're
thinking about the language aswell.
As well as the.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I think there are one off ones when you're doing
something in the holidays on thechat group and the membership,
how long?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
are you here for Only until Tuesday?
Oh right, Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I've got a thing at Ardington on the 20th of July.
Can't remember what I'm doing,might be teapots.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I don't know what you're doing, Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I feel like I did read you were doing a teapot one
too.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Awesome.
We should try and tie it inwith a printmaking with Jennery
as well.
Who could you have quite?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That would be amazing , creative to follow teachers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah project.
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