October 13, 2025 • 39 mins
Jennifer Roig-Francolí shares her journey from a young violinist finding solace in her art, to a place of spiritual exploration and self-discovery. We discuss the challenges she faced in her artistic life, including a pivotal moment when she realized she was not using her creativity in a healthy way, and the profound neck pain that changed her path. Through the Alexander Technique, Jennifer found not just relief from her physical discomfort, but also a new way to reconnect with her creativity.
Jennifer discusses her creative childhood, Suzuki training and meteoric run of competitions and solo work, before the ambition dissolved, orchestra life set in, and her relationship with music dimmed.
When no treatment could alleviate her stubborn neck pain, a friend urged Jennifer to revisit the Alexander Technique. Within a few lessons, the pain vanished and something deeper shifted – mood, movement, and a sense of ease that didn’t require effort.
Together, we unpack what Alexander work actually is beyond posture, and Jennifer shares a simple on-air exercise that anyone can try in seconds, demonstrating how noticing without fixing often melts strain and steadies the voice.
Jennifer is the creator of the Art of Freedom Method built around five pillars – purpose, mind, body, spirit, artistry – to help musicians and non-musicians create from presence rather than pressure, and author of Make Great Music with Ease: The Secret to Smarter Practice, Confident Performance, and Living a Happier Life.
Find out more about The Art of Freedom and Jennifer here
creativityfound.co.uk
Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (00:07):
I felt that it was easy to be myself
and express myself through theviolin, and I did not find it
easy to be myself and expressmyself verbally.
I did progressively get lesshappy and frustrated.
I know now, looking back, thatI was not using my creativity in
(00:31):
a healthy way, well, I wasn'tusing it, basically.
I was gonna say in a healthyway, but I really wasn't using
it much at all.
Really, within a few lessons,my neck pain was completely
gone.
But not only that, everythingelse in my body felt different
and better and freer, moremobile, flexible, and I just was
blown away by the change.
(00:52):
I also started feeling happiervery quickly.
Claire Waite Brown (00:57):
It was very easy and also very difficult.
And I'm like, oh no, thatsounds very challenging for me.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (01:03):
I could teach you right now, really
quick, if you want.
Go on then.
You know, I can do it in a waythat anybody listening can do it
too.
Yeah, yeah, that would belovely.
Claire Waite Brown (01:12):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or refound
their creativity as adults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the art, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:36):
their newfound artisticpursuits.
And how their creative livesenrich their practical,
necessary, everyday lives.
This time I'm chatting withJennifer Roy Franco Lee.
Hi Jennifer, how are you?
I'm great.
Thank you so much for having mehere today.
You're very welcome.
(01:56):
I'm looking forward to ourchat.
Start by telling me about yourcurrent creative life.
What does that look like rightnow?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (02:05):
Oh my goodness, what a question.
Well, right now I am uhdeveloping my ability to be in
the present and go with whatcomes up.
And that's not an easy thing todo always.
So I'm I'm actually practicingthat really more for myself at
the moment.
That's my creative practice.
If I talk about what I'm doingon the outside, I have courses
(02:27):
for musicians and I do coachingfor musicians, and that's a
really creative outlet in theteaching of it.
Brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (02:34):
So music then.
Tell me about the environmentyou grew up in.
What kind of creativeactivities were encouraged in
you as a child and as a youngperson?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (02:45):
I feel so fortunate because, well,
especially my mother isincredibly creative.
She has tried pretty mucheverything I can think of and
done it well.
Anything from stained glass topainting to all kinds of crafts
and arts.
And so I was really encouragedfrom a very, very young age to
(03:06):
just do things every day.
We would just have fun makingthings together.
And then in school, I was alsofortunate to go to kind of an
experimental school that waspart of the university where my
dad taught.
There was a lot of emphasis onbeing creative and critical
thinking, doing your own thing.
And both my parents aremusicians.
(03:28):
So I was told, I don't reallyremember this, but my mom says,
I said when I was two years oldthat I needed a violin.
So I got one when I was fourand um became highly focused on
that ever since.
Claire Waite Brown (03:44):
Yeah.
Violin, I always think of thoseones as perhaps more difficult
because you don't have as muchguidance with where to put your
fingers.
It's very much sound-based.
Like I've played clarinet inthe past.
I've got guidance of where toplace my fingers, but but violin
must be more, I don't know,it's more soundy, intuitive to
know you're in the right placeand hear that you're playing the
(04:07):
right notes.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (04:07):
Yeah, that's right.
And it's not like a guitar thathas frets either, or a piano
that has keys.
And you really have to trainyour ear, your hearing, to be
able to hear what the pitch isthat you want to create in your
mind before it actually comesout.
I took some Indian classicalviolin lessons some years ago as
(04:29):
an adult.
I gave up pretty quicklybecause it's a huge shift and I
didn't have the time to practiceit basically.
But one thing that I learnedthat fascinated me is that they
aren't even allowed to play aninstrument until they've learned
how to sing first.
And part of the training insinging, a big part of it, is to
be able to hear what you wantto sing.
(04:50):
So it's really training themind and the inner ear and the
intention to be able to producewhat you want to create.
Wow.
Claire Waite Brown (05:00):
How did you learn?
You already said that you werevery single-minded about this,
and it was from a very youngage.
How did that whole process oflearning and continuing and
having the passion andpracticing, how did that all
play out for you as you grew up?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (05:17):
You may have heard of this method called
the Suzuki method.
Yeah.
Which is a Japanese methodstarted by Dr.
Shinichi Suzuki.
And when I was four, my momfound out about the Suzuki
method and got me into that.
When I did it, it was in theearly 70s.
And my mom learned the moretraditional way of doing it that
(05:40):
was being done at that time.
It's evolved over the years, ofcourse, like anything.
But at that time, the way itwas taught was that the parent,
usually the mother, would beyour main teacher and work with
you and actually learn theinstrument with you every day.
So I had weekly lessons andthere were group classes with
(06:02):
other kids.
And it was so much aboutenjoying what you're doing and
making it fun and creative.
There are two principles thatcome to mind.
One of them is that Suzukicalled it being nurtured by
love.
He has a whole book calledNurtured by Love on that
methodology.
And the other one is what hecalled the mother tongue method,
(06:24):
where you're actually learninghow to play music as if you
would learn your mother tongue,your language.
So you learn by listening andimitating and repetition rather
than from reading.
There are other, especiallyWestern methods where you start
by learning the notes andreading what's on the page.
(06:46):
And that's not how you learn alanguage.
Your first language, whenyou're a baby, you learn by
listening and imitating.
So that's how I learned from ayoung age.
And it was fun.
Claire Waite Brown (06:57):
Yeah, that is so interesting.
Were you planning on continuingthat and having music and the
violin as a major part of yourgrown-up life?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (07:10):
Yes.
I had absolutely no doubt in mymind.
And I was encouraged.
So there was no reason for meto doubt that I would become a
famous international violinsoloist someday.
So that was my childhoodassumption.
And my parents just supportedthat and did all the things that
(07:32):
needed to be done to get methere.
So I started competing prettysoon when I was very young, and
I was performing really soon.
I tended to win thecompetitions, and so I performed
a lot with orchestras assoloist and just actually was
doing that as a kid and ateenager all the way up until
(07:54):
pretty much age 19.
Claire Waite Brown (07:56):
Do you have an inkling now, looking back, or
maybe you did at the time, ofwhy violin was so important and
this trajectory was important toyou?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (08:08):
Yes.
I mean, now I'm 55 and I'vespent many years looking back on
my life journey and makingsense of things the best I can.
And of course it's not overyet, and there's still a lot to
uncover and discover.
I think I chose the violin.
I did choose it myself becausemy mother was a cellist at that
(08:29):
time and my father played theviola.
They used to play stringquartets in our house when I was
really little.
And so I'd listen, and I justliked the sound of the violin.
And my personality, I guess,fits with that.
I liked the melodies.
I'm a bit of a leader type, soI liked the voice that stood
out, right?
(08:49):
With the melodies.
And um, so I was attracted tothe violin itself.
And another piece of all of itwas that I felt that it was easy
to be myself and express myselfthrough the violin.
And I did not find it easy tobe myself and express myself
verbally.
I had a hard time being part ofgroups and in school.
(09:13):
I didn't really connect verywell to other kids my age.
It was easier for me to bearound adults and connect with
the teachers and things likethat.
So there was something aboutmusic that came really easily to
me.
I also got an incredible amountof positive feedback for my
(09:34):
abilities.
And so I got a lot of love andattention from doing well as a
violinist that fed it, and sothere's a lot of that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:45):
Interesting.
Okay, what happened at age 19then?
Was there a big thing that madeyou stop?
Or yes.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (09:59):
Okay.
What I did stop was having theambition to become a famous
international soloist.
I really dropped that prettymuch from one day to the next.
And this is touching on asubject that really is deeply
personal and the most importantthing in my life, actually, is
(10:21):
the creative spirit.
People can use whatever wordthey want.
It could be God or spirit orsource or universe or nature.
To me, it doesn't really matterwhat word we use, but I grew up
in a family that was veryloving, but didn't have any kind
of spiritual basis.
It just wasn't part of myupbringing at all.
(10:41):
So for me personally, I think Iturned music into that.
It was my spiritual sustenancewithout knowing it.
It was also my emotional refugebecause when I was upset or
feeling lonely or down, youknow, as kids and teenagers get,
of course, we all do, um, Iwould often go into my room at
(11:02):
night and then in the dark, turnthe lights off and just play my
violin until you know I got allthe emotions out and processed
them.
And so it was really a hugesupport for me personally.
And when I was 19, I met myhusband to be, who introduced me
(11:22):
to a different way of lookingat life.
And I was curious, I wasopen-minded, and he had a lot of
interesting things to say aboutspirituality.
And so I listened, and it wasobvious to me that that is
actually what I was looking forall along, but suddenly I had
words for it and also somepractices that I could do, like
(11:46):
meditation.
And I was interested incontemplative practices and
comparative religions.
And it was like, oh, I don'tneed the violin anymore.
So I I did sort of throw thebaby out with the bathwater in
hindsight.
And it's been a long,interesting journey along the
(12:07):
way.
But I didn't actually quit theviolin.
I kept playing.
I just my heart wasn't in it inthe same way.
And I started playing inorchestras, which is something I
never really wanted to do as akid because I saw orchestra
members and they didn't lookhappy to me.
So that's part of why I wantedto be a soloist to do my own
thing and be happy.
Claire Waite Brown (12:26):
So then when you were playing in orchestras,
were you happy?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (12:32):
No.
Well, I guess it's yes and no.
Yeah, there's so much there.
I never had any performanceanxiety.
I always had performanceexcitement.
I played at Carnegie Hall two,three times before twice, I
think, before I was 20.
I've since played more timesthan that.
But even that, I didn't getnervous being a soloist at all.
(12:56):
But the first orchestra job,real orchestra job that I won an
audition for, the opening thatthey had at that time was for a
position in the back of thesecond violin section.
So I won that audition andended up in the back of the
seconds.
And that's the first time Iever felt nervous because I was
(13:18):
used to expressing my voice.
And in this situation, I, ofcourse, went to conservatory and
learned how to be a goodorchestra musician.
And I was playing an orchestrasince the time I was seven.
So I knew I wasn't supposed tostick out.
I was taught if you can hearyourself, you're playing too
loud.
So there was a lot of trying tomake myself quieter and
(13:42):
smaller.
And it just was really hard forme to adapt to that.
And I had an essential tremorthat was diagnosed separately
from that before that, actually,that was never an issue.
But as soon as I startedgetting nervous, the essential
tremor was amplified.
So my bow would start shakingreally hard.
(14:03):
And then I was worried thatpeople could tell that I was
nervous and that that made itworse.
So no, I didn't really enjoythat very much.
But I have had many absolutelywonderful and transcendent
experiences playing inorchestras.
I will say that it's not allbeen negative, but on the whole,
(14:23):
it's not really my thing.
Very gradually, I became lesshappy.
And part of it had to do withfeeling uh somewhat isolated
from uh other people like me.
And I felt that it was gettingharder to connect with people on
(14:47):
a deep level.
There are a lot of reasons forthat, and I can't really go into
all of them right now here, butbut I did progressively get
less happy and frustrated.
I know now looking back that Iwas not using my creativity in a
(15:09):
healthy way, well, I wasn'tusing it, basically.
I was gonna say in a healthyway, but I really wasn't using
it much at all.
In fact, when I started gettingmore interested in
spirituality, I adopted what Inow think are some really kind
of messed up ways of thinkingabout it, where um I already had
(15:30):
some kind of a mind-body splitwhere I had this assumption that
mental activities orintellectual activities, or like
reading, I was a bookworm.
All I did was play the violinand read books.
And so um, I had this prejudiceagainst so-called physical
activities like sports andthings.
(15:52):
My brother was the one that wasgreat at sports.
He did all the physical thingsand he had tons and tons of
friends.
And I was the more introverted,quiet, artistic one that was
reading books all the time.
And so in my mind, I had areally unhealthy way of thinking
about that.
Like there was something betterabout being in your head.
(16:14):
And that worked for me as aviolinist the way I was doing
it.
I never thought of playing theviolin as a physical activity,
which might seem weird tosomeone from the outside because
immediately you start movingyour arms if you're thinking
about a violinist.
But I didn't think about itthat way.
It was all about the ideas andtaking those creative ideas into
(16:38):
the violin and out with music.
The fingers and arms wereimportant and I had to learn
skills, but they weren't, theydidn't seem important to me.
And so I know now, we can talkin a bit about the Alexander
technique, how I got into that.
That kind of cured me of thatunhealthy mind-body split idea,
(17:01):
the belief that there is adifference between the mind and
the body, or that they'reseparate, because they really
can't be separated.
But I was doing my best toseparate them for not good
reasons.
Um, and also spiritually, I hadthe totally wrong idea that the
body wasn't important.
And uh, so, you know,meditation is important, but
(17:24):
that was more the mind and thespirit, but not the body.
So one day, really from one dayto the next, I got neck pain.
And it was really weird becausemy older son, who was, I think,
about four at the time, wascomplaining of neck pain for the
two weeks before that.
You know, I told him, Oh, don'tworry about it, it's nothing.
(17:47):
But finally I had to take himto the doctor.
The doctor said, Don't worry,it's nothing.
Just make sure he keeps movingit and massage it a bit.
The next day, his neck wastotally fine, and mine started
doing exactly the same thing.
And mine didn't go away, eventhough I told myself, it's
nothing, just keep moving it andmassage it.
(18:07):
Nothing worked.
I went to doctors, I went tochiropractor, I did massage,
nothing helped.
And that's when I really thinkit was like divine intervention
at that point, because I wasreally quite unhappy having this
pain.
But I found the Alexandertechnique, and that completely
changed everything in my life.
Claire Waite Brown (18:29):
Wow.
Do explain to us what theAlexander technique is in as
succinct a manner as as you can.
And um I'm guessing you werelooking for something because
nothing was working with thispain.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (18:44):
The pain would not go away, and I I
needed help to make it go away,and nobody was being able to
help me.
And it was really not such abig deal, except that I couldn't
turn my head to the right.
Well, we're in I'm in America,so I need to look to the right
to look into the backseat of thecar, right, to see my kids.
And other than that, I sort ofhad no problem living with it,
(19:06):
but I had to fix it.
And I had a a good friend whoinsisted that I had to try the
Alexander technique again.
I had tried it twice before,like a decade before that, and
maybe a year before, and Ididn't really like it.
I thought this is not for me.
But she insisted.
She said, You have to try itagain.
I know you would love it.
(19:27):
You just need to find the rightteacher.
And so I didn't have anythingelse to try.
So I said, okay, I'll try itone more time.
And I was fortunate, very, veryfortunate to find my teacher
because he was the right teacherfor me.
So I went to him and reallywithin a few lessons, my neck
pain was completely gone.
(19:48):
But not only that, everythingelse in my body felt different
and better and freer, moremobile, flexible.
And I just was blown away bythe change.
I also started feeling happiervery quickly.
So it was very, very mysteriousto me what was going on.
So I took more lessons andended up training as a teacher
(20:11):
in this mysterious thing.
So you probably want to knowwhat this mysterious thing is
now.
unknown (20:16):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (20:17):
Especially after you just said what
wonderful results it gave you.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (20:22):
Well, there are a lot of ways to talk
about the Alexander technique,and most people think it's about
posture.
If anybody listening goes tolook it up, you'll probably find
lots of pictures of teachersusing their hands to guide
students gently with movement,like sitting in a chair or
standing.
And I was I was taughttraditionally that way.
(20:46):
But I am really, reallyinterested in what I think it's
fundamentally about, which isabout getting to know how you're
thinking and how your thoughtsare influencing how you
experience yourself and yourbody.
So for example, if I get reallyangry, I get tight, you know,
(21:07):
and there's maybe a fight,flight, freeze response.
Or if I if I have performanceanxiety or I get nervous talking
with people, if you if you havea problem like that, the body
stiffens, it gets tight, itcontracts with well, basically
it's a fear response.
So when you're thinking acertain way, your body reflects
(21:30):
your mind.
Your body's innocent, it justgives you what your mind is
creating.
So when I had those firstlessons, my teacher helped me to
realize that I was thinking ina way that was causing that neck
pain.
And it wasn't that clear to mebecause he actually didn't talk
(21:50):
a lot.
It was mostly with touch thatwe that he was helping me.
But I did get enough of an ideathat that's what it was about
that I went to the library and Iread all of Alexander's books,
which are not easy and I don'treally recommend them because
they're in Edwardian language.
He was born in 1869, andthey're not the easiest things
(22:11):
to read.
But I loved it.
I devoured it because I wasjust really highly motivated to
learn what this thing was.
So I wanted to learn how to doit for myself, which I was not
learning how to do in thelessons.
They are educational, butthey're also therapeutic.
And with the touch, uh, it justit's very, very healing to have
(22:32):
that touch.
But I wanted to learn how to dothat for myself.
So I ended up going to athree-year teacher training,
1,600 hours of training to getcertified.
And then I started using it tohelp musicians.
And that was the beginning of anew era in my life as an
(22:53):
Alexander Technique teacher.
Claire Waite Brown (22:55):
Yeah.
And tell me then, is that whatallowed you to pick up the
violin in the way you wanted toagain?
Like the solo work.
Was that all connected, do youthink?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (23:11):
Yes, very much connected, but it took
me many years, many years tocome back and really include the
violin into that again.
I did bring them to my veryfirst lessons.
I took a series of 30 lessonswith my first teacher over a
number of months.
He encouraged me to bring theviolin, but there was no pushing
(23:36):
or pressure of any kindwhatsoever to perform or even
play it.
So sometimes I would bring itand not even get it out of the
case.
There were a couple lessonsthat were completely
life-changing in terms of theviolin, and one of them, it was
towards the beginning of thelesson, and I got the violin, or
(23:59):
I think I was going to get theviolin out.
I'm trying to remember now.
And it was there in the case,and I just was standing there
looking at it.
And all I remember is that Ithought, I don't really want to
play it.
I I would like to quit.
And that was the first time Ihad ever voiced that, or
probably even let myself thinkthat thought, that part of me
(24:23):
wanted to quit and just give itup completely.
It's like that wasn't allowedin part of my brain.
Who would I be without theviolin?
So this wonderful teacher ofmine allowed me to just be
myself and said, Well, whatwould that be like?
Sure, you could quit.
I don't remember the exactwords, but he gave me permission
(24:46):
that I wasn't being able togive myself to quit if I wanted
to quit.
And that that was soliberating.
And in the next moment, Ithought, well, but no, that
would be really sad.
And then he said, Well, whydon't you get the violin out and
play sad?
So there was a bit of that.
(25:06):
And then there was another timewhere I got the violin out and
was just playing open stringsand also intoning with the voice
at the same time, like a hum.
And suddenly it struck mereally, really, really clearly
that that was a prayer.
It was like a light bulb.
Suddenly I realized, oh, I canhave this heartfelt connection
(25:31):
with my creative spirit, God,source, love.
I often use the word love withcapital L because I think
everybody can relate to that.
I had that in my heart at thatmoment and was able to express
that through the violin withease.
And to me, suddenly I realizedthat is a prayer.
(25:55):
That's a real heartfelt prayer,the way I want to pray.
And it wasn't a formal thing inany way.
It was mine.
It came to me.
And the funny thing is that Ididn't really follow up on that
very much until many yearslater.
There were just so many otherthings that I needed to go
(26:15):
through.
But I'm coming more and moreand more back to that and
starting to teach that actuallythese days.
So that's really exciting tome.
That's coming full circle in aneven bigger way than doing the
solo stuff.
And I did do some of that againto answer your question.
And I did make a solo MP3 CDduring the pandemic.
(26:37):
That was my project.
So I did come full circle withthe performing as well.
Claire Waite Brown (26:41):
I was going to ask about the follow-up
because it seems it's a very bigevent that happened for you.
And then that doesn'tnecessarily mean that you skip
out and you just start embracingthis whole new you.
Um, I can imagine that would bequite a lot to cope with and
would take some time to figureout.
You said at the beginning aboutbeing open to your own
(27:04):
creativity.
And so tell me about now.
How do you feel now?
How you embrace what you wantto do creatively or spiritually,
or about the Alexandertechnique, and then touch on if
you can, if you have anythoughts for the future or
aspirations for the future.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (27:26):
Yes.
Well, like I started today, youask me what I'm doing today.
Yeah.
More and more I'm getting thesense that the most important
thing for me, and really I Ibelieve for everybody, is to be
paying attention to what's goingon inside of ourselves right
(27:50):
now.
Like really, really right now.
And like the practical way todo that, to integrate the mind,
the body, the emotions, thesoul, the spirit, everything
that you believe is you.
How do we be ourselves and bewhole in this moment?
See, I call my work the Art ofFreedom method for conscious
(28:12):
living and masterful artistry.
And the Alexander technique isa huge part of that, but I've
expanded the container to givemyself that freedom.
I think there's more to it,more to life than the Alexander
technique, as wonderful as itis.
So to be all-inclusive, I havefive life pillars, I call them
(28:32):
purpose, mind, body, spirit, andartistry.
And that artistry is really thelike the art of living.
And it's the art of makingmusic or speaking or writing,
parenting, whatever the creativepursuit is, and that can be
anything.
We can turn anything into anart.
So this is what I teach, andit's always about what's
(28:54):
happening to me, to you, to usright now.
And the question, of course, isalways subjective.
What's happening to me rightnow?
And that means shifting ourcuriosity, shifting our
attention to wonder withchildlike open wonder to what am
(29:16):
I noticing about?
I can start with the body rightnow.
It's like, what am I noticingabout my body?
To just be present and be withwhatever's showing up inside of
myself.
Then there's a process that Iteach based on actually it's
called primal Alexander.
My partner is the creator of anew kind of mode modality of
(29:40):
Alexander technique that doesn'trequire touch.
That's how I do all of my workonline these days, since 2018,
actually.
So I only teach online withouttouch because it's all about the
thinking.
So for me, this is this is ascreative as it gets, because if
I can be Curious and noticewhat's happening in me in the
(30:03):
moment.
And I can let go and changethings that are happening in the
moment within me.
Then I can also have anintention.
Okay, what do I want to donext?
And how do I want to do that?
Maybe it's even I want to walkacross the room and open the
door.
Well, I could do that in amindless, habitual way and get
(30:24):
there really fast.
But the way I do it is probablygoing to be using much more
effort, more tension thannecessary.
And if I keep living that wayover time, I'll get back pain,
neck pain, whatever.
But if I pause and I becomemore mindful and present to my
experience in the moment, and Ibecome like a little child and
(30:44):
curious about what's happeningto me as I walk over to the door
and more flexible in my mindwhen the body also reflects
that.
Open-minded flexibility ofmind, all of that being present.
The body is part of that.
So it's it's a wellnesspractice, but it's also super
(31:05):
creative.
And it's, I think, the easiestthing to do and the most
challenging thing to do is to bereally present to our
experience and then decide whatdo I want?
And then have an intention andcreate that in my life.
So this is all really kind ofabstract, but in the moment it's
(31:27):
super practical.
But like when I'm coaching myclients, we're maybe looking at,
okay, do you want to take thataudition and get that job?
Oh, you are stressed about it,you're sick of taking auditions
and you feel really bad aboutit.
You think you're never going towin and you're never going to
get a job.
Then so we're looking at howthose thoughts are actually
(31:48):
perpetuating the lack ofsuccess.
It's not just about the body atall.
It's about what do you want tocreate in your life?
What kind of a life do youwant?
So I'm trying to do that moreand more for myself.
Because if I don't do it formyself, how can I, you know, in
integrity help anyone else?
I think it has to start here.
(32:08):
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (32:09):
It doesn't sound easy to me at all.
You said it was very easy andalso very difficult.
And I'm like, oh no, thatsounds very challenging for me.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:17):
I could teach you right now, really
quick, if you want.
Go on then.
You know, I can do it in a waythat anybody listening can do it
too.
Yeah, yeah, that would belovely.
So right now, as you're sittingthere, what are you noticing
about your body?
What's showing up?
What do you feel?
Claire Waite Brown (32:33):
Well, I'm very tense right now because
I've hunched my shoulders up andI'm pressing my hand against my
chest because I just said toyou that doesn't sound very
easy.
And so now I'm like kind ofbracing myself um without even
knowing that until you just saidwhat am I doing?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:49):
But noticing that is really easy,
right?
Claire Waite Brown (32:52):
Yeah.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:52):
Yeah, that's easy.
And what happened right now?
Claire Waite Brown (32:54):
What did I because I noticed it, I tried to
um remedy it by relaxing myshoulders and getting the
pressure off.
My hand is still on my chest,but I'm not pressing it into my
chest.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:05):
Okay.
And what if what if you justnotice the hand right now and
you don't try to change yourselfat all?
You just notice it.
Okay.
That's right.
Okay, your voice just changed,didn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
What happened?
What did you what do you noticeif you just leave yourself
alone?
Claire Waite Brown (33:25):
Well, it kind of went very calm.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:27):
Yeah.
That was easy, wasn't it?
It was, yeah.
Yeah.
That's all there is to it,really.
Claire Waite Brown (33:32):
Thank you very much.
That was a surprise for today.
Oh, brilliant.
Thank you.
Um, back to the show.
Um, you've written a book.
Is this about these techniques?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:44):
Yes, it is, actually, but it's about my
life as well.
The book has three parts, andit is written for musicians, but
I've had so many people tell methat it's not just for
musicians, and anybody couldbenefit from reading it.
So the first part of the bookis about the challenges we face
in those categories that Imentioned: finding purpose,
(34:05):
mind, you know, the thoughtsthat we have, the negative
thoughts and self-sabotagingthoughts.
Then we have the body and theaches and the pains and all
that.
And then we have spiritualcreative crises and lack of
motivation and all that.
And then we have the artistry,which can be for musicians,
specific things like, oh, Ican't play in tune, I'll never
(34:27):
be able to play this rhythmcorrectly.
All the artistic stuff is inthere, causing problems for
musicians.
So that's all of part one.
And I have lots of storiesabout people I've worked with,
like client stories that make itkind of fun.
It's not just about me, it'svery much about musicians as a
whole.
And part two really is aboutme.
(34:49):
It's the process.
Much of what we've talked abouttoday is in there, and of
course, there's a lot more abouthow I found music and was then
starting to suffer, and thenfound the Alexander technique,
but then found primal Alexander.
My boyfriend is the creator ofthat.
His name is Mio Morales, creditwhere credit is due.
So there's a lot about that,finding that missing link to
(35:14):
what I believe is like pureAlexander, because Alexander
didn't have a teacher puttingtheir hands on to guide with
touch either.
And he solved his own vocalperformance problems.
He got hoarse as an actor, andthat's the origin of this
technique.
He solved the problems himselfby thinking differently.
So I found ways to teachwithout my hands.
(35:36):
That's part two.
Part three is the practicalmethodology, sharing like what
we did just now.
You and me is just like the tipof the iceberg, obviously.
But it shows you how simple andeasy it is to step into that.
And then to be able to bringthat immediate instant ability
to access calm, even inperformance or at an audition.
(36:00):
I'll just add that I think thistechnique is so, so, so
important for our world rightnow, for everybody, because we
have war and horrible, awfulthings going on right now.
And people are really, reallystressed and scared.
There's a lot of fear.
And if people knew how to justright now be present, there's
(36:23):
always ease and joy andhappiness on the inside.
So to be able to immediatelyshift our attention and be like
curious little children andnotice the good things inside of
us that are always there.
We don't have to depend on somuch what's going on the out on
the outside.
We become independent andinterdependent.
(36:45):
Because when we heal ourselves,we're healing everybody around
us too.
So that's the book.
Claire Waite Brown (36:51):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (36:54):
How can people connect with you?
Yeah, thank you.
The book is called Make GreatMusic with Ease: The Secret to
Smarter Practice, ConfidentPerformance, and Living a
Happier Life.
And that's available on Amazon.
And my website has lots ofstuff about my work with
musicians.
(37:14):
And that is www.artofreedom.me.
So it's.me.
And I'm also very visible andactive on Facebook.
That's my main social mediaoutlet to connect with people
and very easily accessible.
And I also have a YouTubechannel that has my violin
(37:35):
performances as well as lots ofteaching videos.
There's actually a video calledMind Body Awareness for
Musicians, which would behelpful for anybody, that helps
you use the ability to noticeease inside of yourself and make
it a two-minute practice tobring calm into your everyday
(37:56):
life and the things you do.
To find the channel, it's justJennifer Ruck, Franklin.
Claire Waite Brown (38:01):
Thank you so much for chatting with me
today, Jennifer, and um givingme a bit of insight as well that
I wasn't expecting.
That was really lovely.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (38:12):
Thank you so much, Claire.
Thank you to everybodylistening.
I hope this was useful.
Claire Waite Brown (38:17):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com slash
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on a valuefor value enabled app, such as
Fountain, TrueFans, or PodcastGuru, feel free to send a few
(38:39):
saps my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
I felt that it was easy to be myself
and express myself through theviolin, and I did not find it
easy to be myself and expressmyself verbally.
I did progressively get lesshappy and frustrated.
I know now, looking back, thatI was not using my creativity in
(00:31):
a healthy way, well, I wasn'tusing it, basically.
I was gonna say in a healthyway, but I really wasn't using
it much at all.
Really, within a few lessons,my neck pain was completely
gone.
But not only that, everythingelse in my body felt different
and better and freer, moremobile, flexible, and I just was
blown away by the change.
(00:52):
I also started feeling happiervery quickly.
Claire Waite Brown (00:57):
It was very easy and also very difficult.
And I'm like, oh no, thatsounds very challenging for me.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (01:03):
I could teach you right now, really
quick, if you want.
Go on then.
You know, I can do it in a waythat anybody listening can do it
too.
Yeah, yeah, that would belovely.
Claire Waite Brown (01:12):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or refound
their creativity as adults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the art, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:36):
their newfound artisticpursuits.
And how their creative livesenrich their practical,
necessary, everyday lives.
This time I'm chatting withJennifer Roy Franco Lee.
Hi Jennifer, how are you?
I'm great.
Thank you so much for having mehere today.
You're very welcome.
(01:56):
I'm looking forward to ourchat.
Start by telling me about yourcurrent creative life.
What does that look like rightnow?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (02:05):
Oh my goodness, what a question.
Well, right now I am uhdeveloping my ability to be in
the present and go with whatcomes up.
And that's not an easy thing todo always.
So I'm I'm actually practicingthat really more for myself at
the moment.
That's my creative practice.
If I talk about what I'm doingon the outside, I have courses
(02:27):
for musicians and I do coachingfor musicians, and that's a
really creative outlet in theteaching of it.
Brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (02:34):
So music then.
Tell me about the environmentyou grew up in.
What kind of creativeactivities were encouraged in
you as a child and as a youngperson?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (02:45):
I feel so fortunate because, well,
especially my mother isincredibly creative.
She has tried pretty mucheverything I can think of and
done it well.
Anything from stained glass topainting to all kinds of crafts
and arts.
And so I was really encouragedfrom a very, very young age to
(03:06):
just do things every day.
We would just have fun makingthings together.
And then in school, I was alsofortunate to go to kind of an
experimental school that waspart of the university where my
dad taught.
There was a lot of emphasis onbeing creative and critical
thinking, doing your own thing.
And both my parents aremusicians.
(03:28):
So I was told, I don't reallyremember this, but my mom says,
I said when I was two years oldthat I needed a violin.
So I got one when I was fourand um became highly focused on
that ever since.
Claire Waite Brown (03:44):
Yeah.
Violin, I always think of thoseones as perhaps more difficult
because you don't have as muchguidance with where to put your
fingers.
It's very much sound-based.
Like I've played clarinet inthe past.
I've got guidance of where toplace my fingers, but but violin
must be more, I don't know,it's more soundy, intuitive to
know you're in the right placeand hear that you're playing the
(04:07):
right notes.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (04:07):
Yeah, that's right.
And it's not like a guitar thathas frets either, or a piano
that has keys.
And you really have to trainyour ear, your hearing, to be
able to hear what the pitch isthat you want to create in your
mind before it actually comesout.
I took some Indian classicalviolin lessons some years ago as
(04:29):
an adult.
I gave up pretty quicklybecause it's a huge shift and I
didn't have the time to practiceit basically.
But one thing that I learnedthat fascinated me is that they
aren't even allowed to play aninstrument until they've learned
how to sing first.
And part of the training insinging, a big part of it, is to
be able to hear what you wantto sing.
(04:50):
So it's really training themind and the inner ear and the
intention to be able to producewhat you want to create.
Wow.
Claire Waite Brown (05:00):
How did you learn?
You already said that you werevery single-minded about this,
and it was from a very youngage.
How did that whole process oflearning and continuing and
having the passion andpracticing, how did that all
play out for you as you grew up?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (05:17):
You may have heard of this method called
the Suzuki method.
Yeah.
Which is a Japanese methodstarted by Dr.
Shinichi Suzuki.
And when I was four, my momfound out about the Suzuki
method and got me into that.
When I did it, it was in theearly 70s.
And my mom learned the moretraditional way of doing it that
(05:40):
was being done at that time.
It's evolved over the years, ofcourse, like anything.
But at that time, the way itwas taught was that the parent,
usually the mother, would beyour main teacher and work with
you and actually learn theinstrument with you every day.
So I had weekly lessons andthere were group classes with
(06:02):
other kids.
And it was so much aboutenjoying what you're doing and
making it fun and creative.
There are two principles thatcome to mind.
One of them is that Suzukicalled it being nurtured by
love.
He has a whole book calledNurtured by Love on that
methodology.
And the other one is what hecalled the mother tongue method,
(06:24):
where you're actually learninghow to play music as if you
would learn your mother tongue,your language.
So you learn by listening andimitating and repetition rather
than from reading.
There are other, especiallyWestern methods where you start
by learning the notes andreading what's on the page.
(06:46):
And that's not how you learn alanguage.
Your first language, whenyou're a baby, you learn by
listening and imitating.
So that's how I learned from ayoung age.
And it was fun.
Claire Waite Brown (06:57):
Yeah, that is so interesting.
Were you planning on continuingthat and having music and the
violin as a major part of yourgrown-up life?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (07:10):
Yes.
I had absolutely no doubt in mymind.
And I was encouraged.
So there was no reason for meto doubt that I would become a
famous international violinsoloist someday.
So that was my childhoodassumption.
And my parents just supportedthat and did all the things that
(07:32):
needed to be done to get methere.
So I started competing prettysoon when I was very young, and
I was performing really soon.
I tended to win thecompetitions, and so I performed
a lot with orchestras assoloist and just actually was
doing that as a kid and ateenager all the way up until
(07:54):
pretty much age 19.
Claire Waite Brown (07:56):
Do you have an inkling now, looking back, or
maybe you did at the time, ofwhy violin was so important and
this trajectory was important toyou?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (08:08):
Yes.
I mean, now I'm 55 and I'vespent many years looking back on
my life journey and makingsense of things the best I can.
And of course it's not overyet, and there's still a lot to
uncover and discover.
I think I chose the violin.
I did choose it myself becausemy mother was a cellist at that
(08:29):
time and my father played theviola.
They used to play stringquartets in our house when I was
really little.
And so I'd listen, and I justliked the sound of the violin.
And my personality, I guess,fits with that.
I liked the melodies.
I'm a bit of a leader type, soI liked the voice that stood
out, right?
(08:49):
With the melodies.
And um, so I was attracted tothe violin itself.
And another piece of all of itwas that I felt that it was easy
to be myself and express myselfthrough the violin.
And I did not find it easy tobe myself and express myself
verbally.
I had a hard time being part ofgroups and in school.
(09:13):
I didn't really connect verywell to other kids my age.
It was easier for me to bearound adults and connect with
the teachers and things likethat.
So there was something aboutmusic that came really easily to
me.
I also got an incredible amountof positive feedback for my
(09:34):
abilities.
And so I got a lot of love andattention from doing well as a
violinist that fed it, and sothere's a lot of that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:45):
Interesting.
Okay, what happened at age 19then?
Was there a big thing that madeyou stop?
Or yes.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (09:59):
Okay.
What I did stop was having theambition to become a famous
international soloist.
I really dropped that prettymuch from one day to the next.
And this is touching on asubject that really is deeply
personal and the most importantthing in my life, actually, is
(10:21):
the creative spirit.
People can use whatever wordthey want.
It could be God or spirit orsource or universe or nature.
To me, it doesn't really matterwhat word we use, but I grew up
in a family that was veryloving, but didn't have any kind
of spiritual basis.
It just wasn't part of myupbringing at all.
(10:41):
So for me personally, I think Iturned music into that.
It was my spiritual sustenancewithout knowing it.
It was also my emotional refugebecause when I was upset or
feeling lonely or down, youknow, as kids and teenagers get,
of course, we all do, um, Iwould often go into my room at
(11:02):
night and then in the dark, turnthe lights off and just play my
violin until you know I got allthe emotions out and processed
them.
And so it was really a hugesupport for me personally.
And when I was 19, I met myhusband to be, who introduced me
(11:22):
to a different way of lookingat life.
And I was curious, I wasopen-minded, and he had a lot of
interesting things to say aboutspirituality.
And so I listened, and it wasobvious to me that that is
actually what I was looking forall along, but suddenly I had
words for it and also somepractices that I could do, like
(11:46):
meditation.
And I was interested incontemplative practices and
comparative religions.
And it was like, oh, I don'tneed the violin anymore.
So I I did sort of throw thebaby out with the bathwater in
hindsight.
And it's been a long,interesting journey along the
(12:07):
way.
But I didn't actually quit theviolin.
I kept playing.
I just my heart wasn't in it inthe same way.
And I started playing inorchestras, which is something I
never really wanted to do as akid because I saw orchestra
members and they didn't lookhappy to me.
So that's part of why I wantedto be a soloist to do my own
thing and be happy.
Claire Waite Brown (12:26):
So then when you were playing in orchestras,
were you happy?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (12:32):
No.
Well, I guess it's yes and no.
Yeah, there's so much there.
I never had any performanceanxiety.
I always had performanceexcitement.
I played at Carnegie Hall two,three times before twice, I
think, before I was 20.
I've since played more timesthan that.
But even that, I didn't getnervous being a soloist at all.
(12:56):
But the first orchestra job,real orchestra job that I won an
audition for, the opening thatthey had at that time was for a
position in the back of thesecond violin section.
So I won that audition andended up in the back of the
seconds.
And that's the first time Iever felt nervous because I was
(13:18):
used to expressing my voice.
And in this situation, I, ofcourse, went to conservatory and
learned how to be a goodorchestra musician.
And I was playing an orchestrasince the time I was seven.
So I knew I wasn't supposed tostick out.
I was taught if you can hearyourself, you're playing too
loud.
So there was a lot of trying tomake myself quieter and
(13:42):
smaller.
And it just was really hard forme to adapt to that.
And I had an essential tremorthat was diagnosed separately
from that before that, actually,that was never an issue.
But as soon as I startedgetting nervous, the essential
tremor was amplified.
So my bow would start shakingreally hard.
(14:03):
And then I was worried thatpeople could tell that I was
nervous and that that made itworse.
So no, I didn't really enjoythat very much.
But I have had many absolutelywonderful and transcendent
experiences playing inorchestras.
I will say that it's not allbeen negative, but on the whole,
(14:23):
it's not really my thing.
Very gradually, I became lesshappy.
And part of it had to do withfeeling uh somewhat isolated
from uh other people like me.
And I felt that it was gettingharder to connect with people on
(14:47):
a deep level.
There are a lot of reasons forthat, and I can't really go into
all of them right now here, butbut I did progressively get
less happy and frustrated.
I know now looking back that Iwas not using my creativity in a
(15:09):
healthy way, well, I wasn'tusing it, basically.
I was gonna say in a healthyway, but I really wasn't using
it much at all.
In fact, when I started gettingmore interested in
spirituality, I adopted what Inow think are some really kind
of messed up ways of thinkingabout it, where um I already had
(15:30):
some kind of a mind-body splitwhere I had this assumption that
mental activities orintellectual activities, or like
reading, I was a bookworm.
All I did was play the violinand read books.
And so um, I had this prejudiceagainst so-called physical
activities like sports andthings.
(15:52):
My brother was the one that wasgreat at sports.
He did all the physical thingsand he had tons and tons of
friends.
And I was the more introverted,quiet, artistic one that was
reading books all the time.
And so in my mind, I had areally unhealthy way of thinking
about that.
Like there was something betterabout being in your head.
(16:14):
And that worked for me as aviolinist the way I was doing
it.
I never thought of playing theviolin as a physical activity,
which might seem weird tosomeone from the outside because
immediately you start movingyour arms if you're thinking
about a violinist.
But I didn't think about itthat way.
It was all about the ideas andtaking those creative ideas into
(16:38):
the violin and out with music.
The fingers and arms wereimportant and I had to learn
skills, but they weren't, theydidn't seem important to me.
And so I know now, we can talkin a bit about the Alexander
technique, how I got into that.
That kind of cured me of thatunhealthy mind-body split idea,
(17:01):
the belief that there is adifference between the mind and
the body, or that they'reseparate, because they really
can't be separated.
But I was doing my best toseparate them for not good
reasons.
Um, and also spiritually, I hadthe totally wrong idea that the
body wasn't important.
And uh, so, you know,meditation is important, but
(17:24):
that was more the mind and thespirit, but not the body.
So one day, really from one dayto the next, I got neck pain.
And it was really weird becausemy older son, who was, I think,
about four at the time, wascomplaining of neck pain for the
two weeks before that.
You know, I told him, Oh, don'tworry about it, it's nothing.
(17:47):
But finally I had to take himto the doctor.
The doctor said, Don't worry,it's nothing.
Just make sure he keeps movingit and massage it a bit.
The next day, his neck wastotally fine, and mine started
doing exactly the same thing.
And mine didn't go away, eventhough I told myself, it's
nothing, just keep moving it andmassage it.
(18:07):
Nothing worked.
I went to doctors, I went tochiropractor, I did massage,
nothing helped.
And that's when I really thinkit was like divine intervention
at that point, because I wasreally quite unhappy having this
pain.
But I found the Alexandertechnique, and that completely
changed everything in my life.
Claire Waite Brown (18:29):
Wow.
Do explain to us what theAlexander technique is in as
succinct a manner as as you can.
And um I'm guessing you werelooking for something because
nothing was working with thispain.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (18:44):
The pain would not go away, and I I
needed help to make it go away,and nobody was being able to
help me.
And it was really not such abig deal, except that I couldn't
turn my head to the right.
Well, we're in I'm in America,so I need to look to the right
to look into the backseat of thecar, right, to see my kids.
And other than that, I sort ofhad no problem living with it,
(19:06):
but I had to fix it.
And I had a a good friend whoinsisted that I had to try the
Alexander technique again.
I had tried it twice before,like a decade before that, and
maybe a year before, and Ididn't really like it.
I thought this is not for me.
But she insisted.
She said, You have to try itagain.
I know you would love it.
(19:27):
You just need to find the rightteacher.
And so I didn't have anythingelse to try.
So I said, okay, I'll try itone more time.
And I was fortunate, very, veryfortunate to find my teacher
because he was the right teacherfor me.
So I went to him and reallywithin a few lessons, my neck
pain was completely gone.
(19:48):
But not only that, everythingelse in my body felt different
and better and freer, moremobile, flexible.
And I just was blown away bythe change.
I also started feeling happiervery quickly.
So it was very, very mysteriousto me what was going on.
So I took more lessons andended up training as a teacher
(20:11):
in this mysterious thing.
So you probably want to knowwhat this mysterious thing is
now.
unknown (20:16):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (20:17):
Especially after you just said what
wonderful results it gave you.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (20:22):
Well, there are a lot of ways to talk
about the Alexander technique,and most people think it's about
posture.
If anybody listening goes tolook it up, you'll probably find
lots of pictures of teachersusing their hands to guide
students gently with movement,like sitting in a chair or
standing.
And I was I was taughttraditionally that way.
(20:46):
But I am really, reallyinterested in what I think it's
fundamentally about, which isabout getting to know how you're
thinking and how your thoughtsare influencing how you
experience yourself and yourbody.
So for example, if I get reallyangry, I get tight, you know,
(21:07):
and there's maybe a fight,flight, freeze response.
Or if I if I have performanceanxiety or I get nervous talking
with people, if you if you havea problem like that, the body
stiffens, it gets tight, itcontracts with well, basically
it's a fear response.
So when you're thinking acertain way, your body reflects
(21:30):
your mind.
Your body's innocent, it justgives you what your mind is
creating.
So when I had those firstlessons, my teacher helped me to
realize that I was thinking ina way that was causing that neck
pain.
And it wasn't that clear to mebecause he actually didn't talk
(21:50):
a lot.
It was mostly with touch thatwe that he was helping me.
But I did get enough of an ideathat that's what it was about
that I went to the library and Iread all of Alexander's books,
which are not easy and I don'treally recommend them because
they're in Edwardian language.
He was born in 1869, andthey're not the easiest things
(22:11):
to read.
But I loved it.
I devoured it because I wasjust really highly motivated to
learn what this thing was.
So I wanted to learn how to doit for myself, which I was not
learning how to do in thelessons.
They are educational, butthey're also therapeutic.
And with the touch, uh, it justit's very, very healing to have
(22:32):
that touch.
But I wanted to learn how to dothat for myself.
So I ended up going to athree-year teacher training,
1,600 hours of training to getcertified.
And then I started using it tohelp musicians.
And that was the beginning of anew era in my life as an
(22:53):
Alexander Technique teacher.
Claire Waite Brown (22:55):
Yeah.
And tell me then, is that whatallowed you to pick up the
violin in the way you wanted toagain?
Like the solo work.
Was that all connected, do youthink?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (23:11):
Yes, very much connected, but it took
me many years, many years tocome back and really include the
violin into that again.
I did bring them to my veryfirst lessons.
I took a series of 30 lessonswith my first teacher over a
number of months.
He encouraged me to bring theviolin, but there was no pushing
(23:36):
or pressure of any kindwhatsoever to perform or even
play it.
So sometimes I would bring itand not even get it out of the
case.
There were a couple lessonsthat were completely
life-changing in terms of theviolin, and one of them, it was
towards the beginning of thelesson, and I got the violin, or
(23:59):
I think I was going to get theviolin out.
I'm trying to remember now.
And it was there in the case,and I just was standing there
looking at it.
And all I remember is that Ithought, I don't really want to
play it.
I I would like to quit.
And that was the first time Ihad ever voiced that, or
probably even let myself thinkthat thought, that part of me
(24:23):
wanted to quit and just give itup completely.
It's like that wasn't allowedin part of my brain.
Who would I be without theviolin?
So this wonderful teacher ofmine allowed me to just be
myself and said, Well, whatwould that be like?
Sure, you could quit.
I don't remember the exactwords, but he gave me permission
(24:46):
that I wasn't being able togive myself to quit if I wanted
to quit.
And that that was soliberating.
And in the next moment, Ithought, well, but no, that
would be really sad.
And then he said, Well, whydon't you get the violin out and
play sad?
So there was a bit of that.
(25:06):
And then there was another timewhere I got the violin out and
was just playing open stringsand also intoning with the voice
at the same time, like a hum.
And suddenly it struck mereally, really, really clearly
that that was a prayer.
It was like a light bulb.
Suddenly I realized, oh, I canhave this heartfelt connection
(25:31):
with my creative spirit, God,source, love.
I often use the word love withcapital L because I think
everybody can relate to that.
I had that in my heart at thatmoment and was able to express
that through the violin withease.
And to me, suddenly I realizedthat is a prayer.
(25:55):
That's a real heartfelt prayer,the way I want to pray.
And it wasn't a formal thing inany way.
It was mine.
It came to me.
And the funny thing is that Ididn't really follow up on that
very much until many yearslater.
There were just so many otherthings that I needed to go
(26:15):
through.
But I'm coming more and moreand more back to that and
starting to teach that actuallythese days.
So that's really exciting tome.
That's coming full circle in aneven bigger way than doing the
solo stuff.
And I did do some of that againto answer your question.
And I did make a solo MP3 CDduring the pandemic.
(26:37):
That was my project.
So I did come full circle withthe performing as well.
Claire Waite Brown (26:41):
I was going to ask about the follow-up
because it seems it's a very bigevent that happened for you.
And then that doesn'tnecessarily mean that you skip
out and you just start embracingthis whole new you.
Um, I can imagine that would bequite a lot to cope with and
would take some time to figureout.
You said at the beginning aboutbeing open to your own
(27:04):
creativity.
And so tell me about now.
How do you feel now?
How you embrace what you wantto do creatively or spiritually,
or about the Alexandertechnique, and then touch on if
you can, if you have anythoughts for the future or
aspirations for the future.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (27:26):
Yes.
Well, like I started today, youask me what I'm doing today.
Yeah.
More and more I'm getting thesense that the most important
thing for me, and really I Ibelieve for everybody, is to be
paying attention to what's goingon inside of ourselves right
(27:50):
now.
Like really, really right now.
And like the practical way todo that, to integrate the mind,
the body, the emotions, thesoul, the spirit, everything
that you believe is you.
How do we be ourselves and bewhole in this moment?
See, I call my work the Art ofFreedom method for conscious
(28:12):
living and masterful artistry.
And the Alexander technique isa huge part of that, but I've
expanded the container to givemyself that freedom.
I think there's more to it,more to life than the Alexander
technique, as wonderful as itis.
So to be all-inclusive, I havefive life pillars, I call them
(28:32):
purpose, mind, body, spirit, andartistry.
And that artistry is really thelike the art of living.
And it's the art of makingmusic or speaking or writing,
parenting, whatever the creativepursuit is, and that can be
anything.
We can turn anything into anart.
So this is what I teach, andit's always about what's
(28:54):
happening to me, to you, to usright now.
And the question, of course, isalways subjective.
What's happening to me rightnow?
And that means shifting ourcuriosity, shifting our
attention to wonder withchildlike open wonder to what am
(29:16):
I noticing about?
I can start with the body rightnow.
It's like, what am I noticingabout my body?
To just be present and be withwhatever's showing up inside of
myself.
Then there's a process that Iteach based on actually it's
called primal Alexander.
My partner is the creator of anew kind of mode modality of
(29:40):
Alexander technique that doesn'trequire touch.
That's how I do all of my workonline these days, since 2018,
actually.
So I only teach online withouttouch because it's all about the
thinking.
So for me, this is this is ascreative as it gets, because if
I can be Curious and noticewhat's happening in me in the
(30:03):
moment.
And I can let go and changethings that are happening in the
moment within me.
Then I can also have anintention.
Okay, what do I want to donext?
And how do I want to do that?
Maybe it's even I want to walkacross the room and open the
door.
Well, I could do that in amindless, habitual way and get
(30:24):
there really fast.
But the way I do it is probablygoing to be using much more
effort, more tension thannecessary.
And if I keep living that wayover time, I'll get back pain,
neck pain, whatever.
But if I pause and I becomemore mindful and present to my
experience in the moment, and Ibecome like a little child and
(30:44):
curious about what's happeningto me as I walk over to the door
and more flexible in my mindwhen the body also reflects
that.
Open-minded flexibility ofmind, all of that being present.
The body is part of that.
So it's it's a wellnesspractice, but it's also super
(31:05):
creative.
And it's, I think, the easiestthing to do and the most
challenging thing to do is to bereally present to our
experience and then decide whatdo I want?
And then have an intention andcreate that in my life.
So this is all really kind ofabstract, but in the moment it's
(31:27):
super practical.
But like when I'm coaching myclients, we're maybe looking at,
okay, do you want to take thataudition and get that job?
Oh, you are stressed about it,you're sick of taking auditions
and you feel really bad aboutit.
You think you're never going towin and you're never going to
get a job.
Then so we're looking at howthose thoughts are actually
(31:48):
perpetuating the lack ofsuccess.
It's not just about the body atall.
It's about what do you want tocreate in your life?
What kind of a life do youwant?
So I'm trying to do that moreand more for myself.
Because if I don't do it formyself, how can I, you know, in
integrity help anyone else?
I think it has to start here.
(32:08):
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (32:09):
It doesn't sound easy to me at all.
You said it was very easy andalso very difficult.
And I'm like, oh no, thatsounds very challenging for me.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:17):
I could teach you right now, really
quick, if you want.
Go on then.
You know, I can do it in a waythat anybody listening can do it
too.
Yeah, yeah, that would belovely.
So right now, as you're sittingthere, what are you noticing
about your body?
What's showing up?
What do you feel?
Claire Waite Brown (32:33):
Well, I'm very tense right now because
I've hunched my shoulders up andI'm pressing my hand against my
chest because I just said toyou that doesn't sound very
easy.
And so now I'm like kind ofbracing myself um without even
knowing that until you just saidwhat am I doing?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:49):
But noticing that is really easy,
right?
Claire Waite Brown (32:52):
Yeah.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (32:52):
Yeah, that's easy.
And what happened right now?
Claire Waite Brown (32:54):
What did I because I noticed it, I tried to
um remedy it by relaxing myshoulders and getting the
pressure off.
My hand is still on my chest,but I'm not pressing it into my
chest.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:05):
Okay.
And what if what if you justnotice the hand right now and
you don't try to change yourselfat all?
You just notice it.
Okay.
That's right.
Okay, your voice just changed,didn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
What happened?
What did you what do you noticeif you just leave yourself
alone?
Claire Waite Brown (33:25):
Well, it kind of went very calm.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:27):
Yeah.
That was easy, wasn't it?
It was, yeah.
Yeah.
That's all there is to it,really.
Claire Waite Brown (33:32):
Thank you very much.
That was a surprise for today.
Oh, brilliant.
Thank you.
Um, back to the show.
Um, you've written a book.
Is this about these techniques?
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (33:44):
Yes, it is, actually, but it's about my
life as well.
The book has three parts, andit is written for musicians, but
I've had so many people tell methat it's not just for
musicians, and anybody couldbenefit from reading it.
So the first part of the bookis about the challenges we face
in those categories that Imentioned: finding purpose,
(34:05):
mind, you know, the thoughtsthat we have, the negative
thoughts and self-sabotagingthoughts.
Then we have the body and theaches and the pains and all
that.
And then we have spiritualcreative crises and lack of
motivation and all that.
And then we have the artistry,which can be for musicians,
specific things like, oh, Ican't play in tune, I'll never
(34:27):
be able to play this rhythmcorrectly.
All the artistic stuff is inthere, causing problems for
musicians.
So that's all of part one.
And I have lots of storiesabout people I've worked with,
like client stories that make itkind of fun.
It's not just about me, it'svery much about musicians as a
whole.
And part two really is aboutme.
(34:49):
It's the process.
Much of what we've talked abouttoday is in there, and of
course, there's a lot more abouthow I found music and was then
starting to suffer, and thenfound the Alexander technique,
but then found primal Alexander.
My boyfriend is the creator ofthat.
His name is Mio Morales, creditwhere credit is due.
So there's a lot about that,finding that missing link to
(35:14):
what I believe is like pureAlexander, because Alexander
didn't have a teacher puttingtheir hands on to guide with
touch either.
And he solved his own vocalperformance problems.
He got hoarse as an actor, andthat's the origin of this
technique.
He solved the problems himselfby thinking differently.
So I found ways to teachwithout my hands.
(35:36):
That's part two.
Part three is the practicalmethodology, sharing like what
we did just now.
You and me is just like the tipof the iceberg, obviously.
But it shows you how simple andeasy it is to step into that.
And then to be able to bringthat immediate instant ability
to access calm, even inperformance or at an audition.
(36:00):
I'll just add that I think thistechnique is so, so, so
important for our world rightnow, for everybody, because we
have war and horrible, awfulthings going on right now.
And people are really, reallystressed and scared.
There's a lot of fear.
And if people knew how to justright now be present, there's
(36:23):
always ease and joy andhappiness on the inside.
So to be able to immediatelyshift our attention and be like
curious little children andnotice the good things inside of
us that are always there.
We don't have to depend on somuch what's going on the out on
the outside.
We become independent andinterdependent.
(36:45):
Because when we heal ourselves,we're healing everybody around
us too.
So that's the book.
Claire Waite Brown (36:51):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (36:54):
How can people connect with you?
Yeah, thank you.
The book is called Make GreatMusic with Ease: The Secret to
Smarter Practice, ConfidentPerformance, and Living a
Happier Life.
And that's available on Amazon.
And my website has lots ofstuff about my work with
musicians.
(37:14):
And that is www.artofreedom.me.
So it's.me.
And I'm also very visible andactive on Facebook.
That's my main social mediaoutlet to connect with people
and very easily accessible.
And I also have a YouTubechannel that has my violin
(37:35):
performances as well as lots ofteaching videos.
There's actually a video calledMind Body Awareness for
Musicians, which would behelpful for anybody, that helps
you use the ability to noticeease inside of yourself and make
it a two-minute practice tobring calm into your everyday
(37:56):
life and the things you do.
To find the channel, it's justJennifer Ruck, Franklin.
Claire Waite Brown (38:01):
Thank you so much for chatting with me
today, Jennifer, and um givingme a bit of insight as well that
I wasn't expecting.
That was really lovely.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Roig-Francoli (38:12):
Thank you so much, Claire.
Thank you to everybodylistening.
I hope this was useful.
Claire Waite Brown (38:17):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com slash
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on a valuefor value enabled app, such as
Fountain, TrueFans, or PodcastGuru, feel free to send a few
(38:39):
saps my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
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