September 1, 2025 • 33 mins
What happens when a satellite engineer's hands stop working, and how can creativity emerge from constraint?
For Florrie de Havilland, a period of debilitating ill health meant reimagining her entire career and discovering unexpected joy in the delicate art of calligraphy and the mechanical precision of letterpress printing.
Having had a successful career in mechanical engineering, including testing satellites for space missions, Florrie's neurological condition – affecting her hands and arms – forced her to eventually reconsider her career path and find a new way to balance her energy.
During a two-year recovery period, Florrie had turned to watercolour painting and calligraphy, finding that these artistic pursuits offered something her illness had taken away: control.
The conversation reveals fascinating parallels between Florrie's engineering background and her current creative practice. The same precision and problem-solving mindset that helped her test rocket thrusters and solar panels now informs her approach to calligraphy and her operation of "Penelope," a 1.25-ton vintage printing press from 1960 that dominates her studio.
Today, Florrie creates bespoke wedding stationery that tells each couple's unique story, and beyond the commercial aspects of her business she finds profound fulfilment in volunteering with the Make-A-Wish Foundation, creating materials for children's wish events.
Perhaps most touching is Florrie's description of finding her tribe among fellow letterpress enthusiasts: "When you meet some letterpress friends it's fantastic because they're just as crazy as you are."
Florrie's story reminds us that creativity isn't just about making beautiful things – it's about finding new paths forward when traditional ones become inaccessible, and discovering community in unexpected places.
Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
Affordably advertise on this podcast by emailing claire@creativityfound.co.uk, or book a call here.
I would love some financial support to help me to keep making this podcast. Visit buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound
Want to be a guest on Creativity Found? Send me a message on PodMatch, here
Podcast recorded with Riverside and hosted by Buzzsprout
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Florrie de Havilland (00:00):
🎵 🎵 I had two years off work, which
weren't particularly fun, to behonest.
The first year in particularwas very much just trying to
back and forth from all thesedoctor's appointments.
At that point in time, therewas no way I could have gone
(00:21):
back to work and I would havehad all the controls sort of
taken away.
But being able to experimentlike that gave me something to
do and feel like I was getting abit of my life back.
But the thing about letterpressis you Pretty much everybody
who does it is a bit of an oddone because you've got to be
quite special to be very excitedabout that sort of thing.
But oh my goodness me, when youmeet some letterpress friends,
(00:44):
it's fantastic because they'rejust as crazy as you are.
I get so much joy from it.
It feels really lovely to beable to give back in that way
and be creative and have all ofthis sort of input and know that
I'm making a difference tosomebody's life.
Claire Waite Brown (01:01):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or
re-found their creativity asadults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the arts, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:25):
their newfound artisticpursuits, and how their creative
lives in which they'repractical necessarily everyday
lives.
This time I'm chatting withFlorrie de Havilland.
Hi Florrie, how are you?
Hiya,
Florrie de Havilland (01:39):
I'm very well, thank you.
How about yourself?
Claire Waite Brown (01:42):
Yeah, I'm very good, thank you.
Start by telling me what yourcurrent creative outlet is,
please.
Florrie de Havil (01:50):
Creative-wise, normally watercolour and
wedding stationery, but at themoment I am particularly
headfirst in calligraphy.
Claire Waite Brown (01:59):
Brilliant, well we will find out more about
all of those.
When you were younger, whatkind of creative activities did
you enjoy and were theyencouraged at home or at school?
So
Florrie de Havilland (02:11):
I really always loved art, art classes,
even though one of my teachers Iwasn't as keen on, but the
other ones were fantastic.
And I actually continued doingart until A-level and it was
only when I went to universitythat I sort of stopped.
But that's actually when I tookup watercolour a little bit,
just doing colour or friends andfamily.
(02:33):
Yes, then when I was anengineer already, then started
to really go into thewatercolour and everything.
It was encouraged at home.
It was my granny, mostly, whoencouraged me.
My parents never discouragedme, but it was mostly because
they weren't as creative as mygrandmother was.
(02:53):
She would do everything.
She would knit clothes for us.
She would sew all the curtains.
She would do upholstery on herown, watercolour, acrylic.
You
Claire Waite Brown (03:02):
mentioned engineering.
So, and you mentioned you'vedone art up to A-level.
How do we then progress?
Florrie de Havilland (03:31):
really didn't want to be in proper
study mode for seven years,which architecture really is.
And so I thought inastrophysics, you normally end
up in education, you know,either doing a PhD or doing
something more in research,which I also wasn't too
interested in.
So yes, then I decided I wasgoing to do mechanical
(03:53):
engineering and ended up workingin the space sector.
So that actually quite nicelytied in everything, except for
the design, which is why I am acreative outlet.
Claire Waite Brown (04:04):
Ah.
how long and what are yourprospects with mechanical
engineering then with studyingand then what can you go on to
do?
I
Florrie de Havilland (04:14):
knew that I wanted to do something that
was a bit broad because I didn'tknow what I wanted to do.
So mechanical engineering issort of the most broad out of
all of the engineeringdisciplines.
So I had my master's degree inmechanical engineering.
And yes, after that, I ended upworking at Airbus Defence and
Space in Germany.
(04:34):
That was as a thermal engineerand thermal analyst and then
after that I was actuallyheadhunted for a position where
I was the first woman in Europeto hold my job title completely
inexperienced but they sawsomething in me and I took that
job like a Dr.
Water and it was absolutelyfantastic and that was thermal
(04:55):
test manager so testingsatellites before they were
launched
Claire Waite Brown (04:59):
oh wow goodness me so does that kind of
fit in with the astrophysics oram I being stupid there
Florrie de Havilland (05:05):
It does.
Claire Waite Brown (05:06):
It does.
Florrie de Havilland (05:07):
We don't know how that happened.
It was a complete happyaccident, especially because I
wanted to move to Germanybecause my husband's family come
from Germany.
And so I knew that if I wasserious about him, probably
needed to be serious aboutlearning his language.
And so I said after university,we're going to move there and
we're going to live there untilI'm fluent.
(05:29):
And so that's what we did.
So I applied for all these jobsand obviously didn't get very
many of them.
I think I I applied to 60, 70,didn't get a single interview
because I didn't speak thelanguage.
And then eventually this jobpopped up and it was just
fantastic.
Claire Waite Brown (05:45):
Oh, how brilliant.
So how long was it taking youto learn the language while
you're applying for these jobsthen?
And especially, I'm imaginingit's not just everyday language
as well.
There's going to be terminologywithin those fields of work
that are very different.
So how were you learning thatand how did that go?
Well,
Florrie de Havilland (06:05):
there's still quite a few thermal
engineering terms that I don'tactually know in English.
So when I started, it was onlyabout three months, and I was
doing an intensive languagecourse living with my in-laws in
Germany, which, yeah, actuallywent incredibly well living with
them.
I, you know, didn't really knowwhat to think.
I get on with them really well,so that's nice.
(06:27):
And then when I had this job,because there wasn't technically
a job opening, but they saidthat they really liked me and
they wanted for me to do aninternship because normally in
Germany when they studyengineering they have at least
one year of practical knowledgeso internship and so they said
if you do this then we might beable to make the job for you and
(06:50):
yeah after six months there Idid intensive language courses
three days a week for three anda half hours after work and so I
didn't get home until gone 10p.m.
and it was horrible I was sotired and Yeah, but it worked.
I mean, then for my second jobin Munich, all of that was
straight off the bat, all incompletely in German.
Claire Waite Brown (07:12):
Amazing.
Well done.
Thank you.
Before becoming the satellitetester, and I'm going to ask you
more about what that actuallymeans when we get to that point
in the timeline.
You've told me before that youhad a break in Korea due to
health issues and that that waswhen you started to explore
creative activities again.
Can you tell me about thattime?
(07:33):
I
Florrie de Havilland (07:34):
had two years off work.
which weren't particularly funto be honest the first year in
particular was very much justtrying to back and forth from
all these doctor's appointmentsand it was really horrible it
was very stressful I was verylucky that I have the support
network that I do as well Ithink if I didn't have my
husband I would have had to moveback in with my parents you
(07:54):
know so I was very lucky alsohaving friends around me but it
was sad because I was in acompletely different country to
my parents and even my in-lawswere easily seven to nine hour a
drive away but we we managed Iended up with a diagnosis having
neurological disease and thenwas on some medicine for it so
that was you know good to get mesort of back in but um yes I it
(08:19):
was it was pretty awful justsort of being there and not
really being able to doanything.
Claire Waite Brown (08:23):
Can I ask what were the symptoms and then
it took a lot of toing andfroing to get um a diagnosis is
that right?
Florrie de Havilland (08:31):
Yeah so I still believe I don't have a
full diagnosis I think I have adiagnosis and medicine that
helps with it.
But basically my arms didn'talways work or my hands.
So my hands, I wouldn't be ableto move my fingers.
My arms just felt, you know, asif I'd gone to the gym for
hours on end just for doingsmall things like brushing my
(08:54):
teeth.
Actually, when I startedworking in Munich, I did say to
them, look, this is mysituation.
I have this illness.
It's very manageable, but Mygeneral rule of thumb is if I
can't brush my teeth in themorning, I'm going to take a
sick day.
And yeah, they were veryaccepting of that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:14):
So then how do creative activities come
along if it's your hands in yourarms that are feeling the
symptoms?
Florrie de Havilland (09:20):
Slowly.
A lot of watching videos andbeing learning techniques, I
guess, and just sort of beinglike, I can do this.
Go on, I can do this.
And yeah, it was incrediblyfrustrating, but I just had to
get on with it because it justIt felt awful just sort of
seeing everybody when I was 25.
So all of your friends are sortof starting to get engaged.
(09:42):
They're looking at buyinghouses.
I mean, I already had a coupleof friends who were married and
they were moving up in theircareers, setting up companies.
And I was just there sat on thesofa, just like, I can't do
anything.
This is awful.
And so I just thought I need todo something to take my mind
off it.
And because everybody else wasat work, I had all this time
during the day to play with forwhen I was working.
(10:05):
then I could get on with it,learn some new skills.
Claire Waite Brown (10:09):
And what did you turn to?
Was that watercolour at thispoint or lots of things?
Florrie de Havilland (10:14):
Both watercolour and calligraphy.
So I'd always had an inklingthat I would be good at
calligraphy.
I just sort of quite liked theidea of it.
I mean, my handwriting isterrible, but the idea of
calligraphy and having thesebeautiful strokes after lots of
practice and everything, buthaving rules that you can stick
(10:34):
to, but then you can learn tobreak and that's sort of the
engineering coming in and Iquite like having the rigidity
and the rules and then yeahfiguring out how to mess with
them and the watercolor that wasdefinitely a bit more
challenging because I wanted todo it at school but I was a bit
too deep into acrylic so theytold me to stick with what I
(10:54):
know basically so I bought a lotof books watched a lot of
videos and I had paper tapeddown to sort of eight different
boards and would draw the sameflower over and over and over
and over again until it startedto actually look like a flower.
Claire Waite Brown (11:10):
And was that helping you emotionally as well
as like giving you something todo?
Other benefits around it, doyou think?
Florrie de Havillan (11:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, also, even now I stillbenefit from it, seeing some of
my calligraphy.
And some of this was from twoyears into my calligraphy
journey.
And I look at it and I think,wow, I can't believe that I gave
this sort of stuff to myfriends.
I can't believe that they havesome of these commissions on
their wall.
But no, it's fantastic.
(11:42):
And it was really cathartic, Ithink, because doing something,
having, I mean, I didn't alwaysknow my limits at that point.
I'm a lot better at it now.
But it was pretty good knowingI was in control of it.
At that point in time, therewas no way I could have gone
back to work.
And I would have had all thecontrol sort of taken away.
(12:02):
But being able to experimentlike that gave something to do
and feel like I was getting abit of my life back.
Claire Waite Brown (12:10):
Yeah, understand.
So once you've got a diagnosisof sorts and things being
managed, is that when you wereable to go back to work?
And then when you do go back towork, can you keep the creative
stuff going as well?
Florrie de Havilland (12:27):
I think I just set it on LinkedIn that I
was looking for a job and hadn'teven updated everything.
And I've received this messageabout this other job.
And to be fair, Germany werevery good at getting unemployed
people back into the market Sothere was all sorts of
counseling and workshops, likeone-on-one workshops and
everything, which I thought wasfantastic.
(12:48):
And I was having one of thesesort of workshops with this
woman.
She had a workbook that we weregoing through, and that was
more sort of like your emotionsaround going back to work after
being ill.
And I said to her, I called herup and I was like, I've got a
job interview.
Can we go through the jobinterview things instead?
Can we do a mock one?
(13:08):
Because it was all...
told it was all going to be inEnglish the interview and it was
all in German which wasterrifying but I still got the
job so it can't have been thatbad but no and so I was very
open from the beginning about myillness and I did say to them
at one point right I've beenworking on setting up my own
(13:29):
business and I had to sign awaiver to say it wouldn't
interfere with the business thatI was doing there and I said
okay I'm more than happy to dothat and yeah so started working
full time and doing a littlebit on the side for my company.
Claire Waite Brown (13:45):
So tell me then about the satellite
testing.
What do you do on a day to daybasis when you're a satellite
tester?
Florrie de Havilland (13:53):
Well, I mean, there were definitely some
fun parts and some not so funparts.
So there was a lot of documentwriting.
And I was on call a lot.
And that was actually ended upbeing the reason why I left the
job because the being on callwas became a bit too much for
me, not having a single weekendfor about three months.
And then I'd be woken up atfour to seven in the morning,
(14:18):
something like six times.
I'd still have to be in at workat 9am.
And that obviously didn't workreally well with my health.
But no, it was reallyfantastic.
And I'm glad I had thatopportunity.
I would love to do it again,but just I don't think I could
do the on all part.
And that was so testingsatellites and their components.
(14:39):
So I worked on all sorts ofmissions.
One of my big ones was rocketthrusters.
That was really cool.
And solar panels.
I did a lot of solar panels.
So the solar panels that weuse, they're all now up in space
and you can see them every nowand then because they do all the
European GPS.
That's quite cool.
(15:00):
Wow.
When you were just writingdocuments, you would get sort
of, I think, because I had aFitbit at the time, I think I
did something like 2,000 stepsor something at work.
And then the days where I had atest on and we were doing the
(15:23):
test setup or takedown afterpost-test, I would easily do 30
plus thousand per day.
Wow.
Just running around like a madthing.
So the big test chambers weused, they were two meters, two
and a half, three and six.
meters I've now got a fivemeter one since I've left I used
(15:43):
to the thermal vacuum thermalbalance tests which is where you
put the satellite or thecomponent into a so also all in
the clean room as well so I'vegot some really nice safety
shoes that I wear as my trainersnow because they've never been
used outside so put the testobject into the chamber you seal
(16:03):
it off and then depending onthe chamber but generally it
takes about 24 hours to pumpdown to vacuum condition that's
why you have to be on callbecause if it takes a day to get
it down there then somebody hasto be operating it at all times
so if there's something goeswrong because it is a dangerous
bit of kit but then we couldtest well I can't remember what
(16:24):
the upper limit was especiallyif you do like an infrared test
but it was I normally went up tobetween plus 180 and minus 180
degrees and sometimes it will bemore sometimes less but we
could go down to 10 kelvin whichis just incredible that sort of
time just mind-bogglingabsolutely I
Claire Waite Brown (16:47):
did wonder what the on-call was but now
you've explained that
Florrie de Havilland (16:52):
now that makes sense it's really silly
because obviously I was doing itfor so long that you just sort
of think oh yeah of course I wason call but yeah that's not
normal for an engineer I shouldhave explained that sooner
that's
Claire Waite Brown (17:07):
fine you needed to stop that you were
enjoying that but needed to stopthat did you have plans
thinking of what you were goingto do with that before you
stopped that or was it a case oflike I can't do this anymore I
need to stop this and then I'llfigure out what happens next
(17:27):
what did happen next
Florrie de Havilland (17:29):
it was very very sudden if I'm honest I
went downhill quite quickly Ihad probably about two weeks
where I couldn't brush my teethin the morning I was already in
contact with a disabilityofficer because as soon as I
started the job I thought I'mjust gonna find out who's
responsible for these things andjust sort of introduce myself
so that if there are problemsdown the line and I'm glad I did
(17:50):
that because obviously therewere problems down the line and
I said to her look I'm reallystruggling and basically because
of the nature of the job beingon call I couldn't only work
part-time I had to be full-timeor not at all and I'd already
sort of been thinking aboutchanging before it got really
(18:11):
bad to working part-time in aprint shop just to get some
experience for my company.
I wouldn't really be gettingmuch money at all, which is fine
because it was more just Ineeded to be healthy and have a
bit of income.
And so I said to my boss, look,I've spoken to the disabilities
officer.
I've done this.
I really don't think I cancontinue here.
(18:33):
Can I get out of my contractearly?
So we did that.
And I worked for a few monthsin a print shop to learn the
back end of print and how to doall these sorts of things.
And that's been invaluableactually.
And it's been really usefulmaking connections here back in
England and meeting printers andknowing the terminology because
there's so much terminologythat you don't
Claire Waite Brown (18:54):
know you need to know.
Yeah, yeah.
How do we get from being inGermany back to the UK and how
things look for you right now?
Florrie de Havilland (19:04):
Stupidly, I decided to move back two weeks
before my wedding.
Unknown (19:09):
Okay.
Florrie de Havilland (19:09):
which was awful I would not recommend that
to anybody we had to itemizebecause of customs every single
item that we owned so we had notjust the wedding prep but also
this I was actually let go fromthe printing job because they
were struggling and I sort ofsaid right that's fine I'll go
(19:30):
full-time on my company but Isort of hinted at my husband at
this point I think it's time forus to go home it feels like
it's coming to a natural end soit was a few months just getting
things ready.
Yeah.
Itemizing everything.
I didn't enjoy that.
Claire Waite Brown (19:46):
Your business is your full-time gig
now.
Is that correct?
It is.
Good.
How very lovely.
Tell me about it, what you do.
Tell me also how you, becauseyou mentioned earlier about
learning a bit more about theback end of running a business
other than creating the lovelythings that you want to make.
(20:06):
So sorry, I always do this.
I bundle loads of questionstogether and then expect you to
remember it all.
Tell me about what you do inthe business, how you find
balancing business and creativestuff.
And also because you've talkedabout your health, how you
balance that if you have anyissues with that in this
(20:27):
situation.
So there was three questionsthere.
Sorry, Florrie.
Florrie de Havilland (20:29):
All right.
I'll try and remember.
I'll probably go off on atangent anyway.
So the main sort of core twoparts of the business are
designing wedding invitationsand calligraphy.
Wedding stationery in general,not just the invitations.
So that's also things likemenus and seating charts and
everything that comes with it.
(20:49):
I also do in-house letterpressprinting, which is something
that I sort of learned from whenI was working at print shop,
but I didn't really.
They had Heidelberg platen andI said to them, I want to learn
how to use this.
And they said, yeah, good luckmate if you can get it running
(21:12):
and so I went and paid for acourse and came back a week
later fully qualified Heidelbergplaten instructor now
technically even though Iwouldn't really want to do that
because that is a dangerous bitof kit and then yeah bought my
own letterpress found it on eBayand the rest is history I don't
(21:37):
know if you've seen what thissort of bit of kit is but it's a
one and one and a quarter tonprinting press that they call it
the windmill because it hasthese arms that go around like a
windmill but it's a lot fasterI can tell you that much my
one's from 1960 and her name isPenelope and before you use her
(21:58):
you have to go through andthoroughly oil every little bit
and do all the maintenance andthen you can start thinking
about actually using theprinting press love Penelope
love being able to do theprinting in house but that sort
of falls more under the weddinginvitations.
Is that individual lettertiles?
Ah so that's interesting Idon't actually own any of those
(22:20):
the types typeface I could dobut then you don't have as much
freedom for the invitations so Ilike to I've got this amazing
vendor on the Isle of Wight andshe makes these printing plates
for me so then I have anythingso I can even do my own
(22:42):
calligraphy and then I digitizeit and then I send it off to her
and she makes them and sendsthem back
Claire Waite Brown (22:47):
got it
Florrie de Havilland (22:48):
so everything can be completely
individual and personalized ifyou wanted a logo for example
I've done a couple of businesscards and if you wanted a logo
then you can have that andletterpress is when it's
directly pressed into the paperso you have a nice indentation
Claire Waite Brown (23:02):
brilliant got it thank you for explaining
that
Florrie de Havilland (23:06):
I just it's one of those things when
you get too deep into thetechnical stuff stuff then you
forget that not everybody knowsthat but the thing about
letterpress is pretty mucheverybody who does it is a bit
of an odd one because you've gotto be quite special to be very
excited about that sort of thingbut oh my goodness me when you
meet some letterpress friendsit's fantastic because they're
(23:27):
just as crazy as you are
Claire Waite Brown (23:28):
brilliant yeah so when you say about the
wedding stationery then soindividual people can come to
you and you design their wholesuite of what they need.
Florrie de Havillan (23:41):
Absolutely.
Them or wedding planners,whoever really.
I like to work with the couplespersonally because I like to
have a personal experience.
Everything's completelycustomer bespoke.
So everything's unique to thecouple, which is really nice.
So they can really make theirown mark on their wedding.
And I have always said to them,you know, you want your guests
(24:03):
to be able to open the weddinginvitation and say, oh, that is
so Susie and Tom.
Oh, course this is their one sothat even looking at the names
they know who's invited them andit's nice because I can put
some little details on forexample one customer she was
introduced to her now husband byher grandfather and
(24:25):
unfortunately the grandfatherher grandfather passed away
before the wedding and theywanted to honor him somehow and
he had a teapot collection so hehad a little teapot on the
invitations and it just makes itso much more personal and
really makes and a piece of artfor that couple.
Claire Waite Brown (24:42):
I love that idea that when you open the
invitation, you know instantlywhose wedding that is because
that's their vibe, definitely.
And do you have any concerns ormore problematic situations
around the business side ofthings?
Have you got the hang of thatnow and the two, the creating
and the promoting the businesssit hand in hand beautifully,
(25:05):
easily?
Florrie de Havilland (25:06):
I've fallen out out of love again
with social media and I haven'tposted in a long time and I know
that I just need to sit downand do it but If it weren't for
the marketing side, I would loveit.
It's just the marketing thatI'm really, oh, I wasn't born to
(25:27):
do that sort of thing.
I've been actually, since welast spoke, I'm developing an
app for my couples, which isvery exciting.
And it will be the first of itskind.
I didn't mean to get into this.
I never wanted to learn coding.
I don't know how this happened.
But this is the sort of thingthat I enjoy being able to go
off some random tangent andprovide something that's
(25:50):
genuinely useful for people outthere.
Because I found when you, atleast when I was looking for
wedding invitations and how tosort of when to send what, the
information out there is solimited and it's normally big
confusing tables and everything.
So I'm developing, I'm just inthe final stages because it all
(26:10):
works.
I just now need to make it looknice.
Not an actual app you downloadon your phone, but just a little
questionnaire basically.
And it comes up with apersonalized timeline for you.
So it has questions like, areyou having a destination
wedding?
Are you sending save the dates?
Wedding date, obviously being abig one.
And then it tells you exactlywhen to order and when to send
(26:32):
what.
So save the dates, invitationand on the day.
Claire Waite Brown (26:35):
Brilliant.
That's really exciting.
What a good idea.
Florrie de Havilland (26:38):
Yeah.
See, if that was more what Iwas doing, I enjoy doing the
design work.
I enjoy doing even thetechnical things.
I've built my website.
I've thoroughly enjoyed doingthat.
And then there just littlethings like posting on
Instagram, which I just...
can't handle.
But I'll have someone to dothat for me at some point, I'm
(26:58):
sure.
Claire Waite Brown (26:59):
Yeah, that's the best way.
Trying for somebody else to doit.
The bits that you don't like.
And we've talked before on thisshow about, you know, investing
in that, but it's alsoinvesting in saving you time
because that person can do itmuch quicker than you can do it
because they know what they'redoing.
Tell me then about your healthand your creative life balance
(27:23):
generally how is this allaffecting your everyday life in
in many ways emotional physicalmental
Florrie de Havilland (27:31):
the only other downside that I have for
working for myself is that it isa bit lonely because I'm at
home all day every day I do missworking with people a lot and
that has actually definitelyaffected my mental health more
than my physical health hasaffected anything I'm such a
(27:52):
social person but no otherwisemy health hasn't been too bad
it's been fantastic being ableto choose my own hours i mean
for example yesterday i didn'treally do very much until the
evening and i guess i'm alsoquite lucky that i don't have
children yet so i can do thatbut it was good being able to
sort of manage my time in a waythat works best for me
Claire Waite Brown (28:15):
yes exactly and you you can work to your
energy levels when you're atyour best and then other than
this app that you're developinghave you got any thoughts of
what you want to do in thefuture oh I
Florrie de Havilland (28:32):
mean I'd like to do more even more
letterpress because I reallyreally love the letterpress I
love the manual side of the joband it's just yeah I think also
having this massive one and aquarter ton bit of kit under my
control feels pretty empoweringI think I might be a part of it
(28:53):
but But yeah, I would like to domore letterpress and more
calligraphy.
I think I've been advertisingso much about my wedding
stationery, which is, I reallylove the bond with the couples,
don't get me wrong.
But it would be nice to have afew more calligraphy commissions
coming in as well, because Ithoroughly love that.
But that all comes with time,especially because a lot of my
(29:16):
wedding couples ask forcalligraphy.
So quite often I handwrite intoeach individual's name, whether
that's on for their place namesor on the invitations and that
normally goes down very well soyeah we'll see it's nice to have
a mix
Claire Waite Brown (29:32):
yeah brilliant and it sounds like you
are enjoying it and it ismaking you feel happy
Florrie de Havilland (29:40):
yeah I am enjoying it I just obviously you
don't need to put this in butoh my god I hate marketing
Claire Waite Brown (29:48):
but that aside this can be a thing when
what you loved to do physicallywith your hands become a
business, are you still able toget joy from the actual creative
process?
Florrie de Havilland (30:01):
I get so much joy from it.
One of the things that I do aswell is I work quite closely
with Make-A-Wish Foundation.
And I find that so incrediblyrewarding.
I mean, it's incredibly sad aswell, but it feels really nice
to be able to offer them myservices.
So for example, I've done booksignings for this one girl.
(30:22):
Make-A-Wish-Wish was to write abook.
So I did all the invitations tothis.
It feels really lovely to beable to give back in that way
and be creative and have all ofthis sort of input and know that
I'm making a difference tosomebody's life.
Claire Waite Brown (30:38):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much, Florrie.
It's been really lovely tospeak with you.
How can people find you on thedreaded social media and
elsewhere?
I'm
Florrie de Havilland (30:48):
going to be better.
This week, I'm just going to doit.
I'm just do it yes you can findme on Instagram and Facebook at
some point I'm sure I will beon TikTok that is in the works
but I just need to get to gripswith the other social media
platforms first otherwise youcan visit me at my website so
(31:09):
Facebook and Instagram it's deHavilland Memories and the
website isdehavillandmemories.com it's
very nice and simple if you canspell it thank you so much
Florrie yes Thank you so muchfor having me on.
Claire Waite Brown (31:25):
You're very welcome.
I hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com /
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on a valuefor value enabled app, such as
Fountain, True Fans or PodcastGuru, feel free to send a few
(31:49):
sats my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in Practice
🎵 🎵 I had two years off work, which
weren't particularly fun, to behonest.
The first year in particularwas very much just trying to
back and forth from all thesedoctor's appointments.
At that point in time, therewas no way I could have gone
(00:21):
back to work and I would havehad all the controls sort of
taken away.
But being able to experimentlike that gave me something to
do and feel like I was getting abit of my life back.
But the thing about letterpressis you Pretty much everybody
who does it is a bit of an oddone because you've got to be
quite special to be very excitedabout that sort of thing.
But oh my goodness me, when youmeet some letterpress friends,
(00:44):
it's fantastic because they'rejust as crazy as you are.
I get so much joy from it.
It feels really lovely to beable to give back in that way
and be creative and have all ofthis sort of input and know that
I'm making a difference tosomebody's life.
Claire Waite Brown (01:01):
Hi, I'm Claire.
For this podcast, I chat withpeople who have found or
re-found their creativity asadults.
We'll explore their childhoodexperiences of the arts, discuss
how they came to the artisticpractices they now love, and
consider the barriers they mayhave experienced between the
two.
We'll also explore what it isthat people value and gain from
(01:25):
their newfound artisticpursuits, and how their creative
lives in which they'repractical necessarily everyday
lives.
This time I'm chatting withFlorrie de Havilland.
Hi Florrie, how are you?
Hiya,
Florrie de Havilland (01:39):
I'm very well, thank you.
How about yourself?
Claire Waite Brown (01:42):
Yeah, I'm very good, thank you.
Start by telling me what yourcurrent creative outlet is,
please.
Florrie de Havil (01:50):
Creative-wise, normally watercolour and
wedding stationery, but at themoment I am particularly
headfirst in calligraphy.
Claire Waite Brown (01:59):
Brilliant, well we will find out more about
all of those.
When you were younger, whatkind of creative activities did
you enjoy and were theyencouraged at home or at school?
So
Florrie de Havilland (02:11):
I really always loved art, art classes,
even though one of my teachers Iwasn't as keen on, but the
other ones were fantastic.
And I actually continued doingart until A-level and it was
only when I went to universitythat I sort of stopped.
But that's actually when I tookup watercolour a little bit,
just doing colour or friends andfamily.
(02:33):
Yes, then when I was anengineer already, then started
to really go into thewatercolour and everything.
It was encouraged at home.
It was my granny, mostly, whoencouraged me.
My parents never discouragedme, but it was mostly because
they weren't as creative as mygrandmother was.
(02:53):
She would do everything.
She would knit clothes for us.
She would sew all the curtains.
She would do upholstery on herown, watercolour, acrylic.
You
Claire Waite Brown (03:02):
mentioned engineering.
So, and you mentioned you'vedone art up to A-level.
How do we then progress?
Florrie de Havilland (03:31):
really didn't want to be in proper
study mode for seven years,which architecture really is.
And so I thought inastrophysics, you normally end
up in education, you know,either doing a PhD or doing
something more in research,which I also wasn't too
interested in.
So yes, then I decided I wasgoing to do mechanical
(03:53):
engineering and ended up workingin the space sector.
So that actually quite nicelytied in everything, except for
the design, which is why I am acreative outlet.
Claire Waite Brown (04:04):
Ah.
how long and what are yourprospects with mechanical
engineering then with studyingand then what can you go on to
do?
I
Florrie de Havilland (04:14):
knew that I wanted to do something that
was a bit broad because I didn'tknow what I wanted to do.
So mechanical engineering issort of the most broad out of
all of the engineeringdisciplines.
So I had my master's degree inmechanical engineering.
And yes, after that, I ended upworking at Airbus Defence and
Space in Germany.
(04:34):
That was as a thermal engineerand thermal analyst and then
after that I was actuallyheadhunted for a position where
I was the first woman in Europeto hold my job title completely
inexperienced but they sawsomething in me and I took that
job like a Dr.
Water and it was absolutelyfantastic and that was thermal
(04:55):
test manager so testingsatellites before they were
launched
Claire Waite Brown (04:59):
oh wow goodness me so does that kind of
fit in with the astrophysics oram I being stupid there
Florrie de Havilland (05:05):
It does.
Claire Waite Brown (05:06):
It does.
Florrie de Havilland (05:07):
We don't know how that happened.
It was a complete happyaccident, especially because I
wanted to move to Germanybecause my husband's family come
from Germany.
And so I knew that if I wasserious about him, probably
needed to be serious aboutlearning his language.
And so I said after university,we're going to move there and
we're going to live there untilI'm fluent.
(05:29):
And so that's what we did.
So I applied for all these jobsand obviously didn't get very
many of them.
I think I I applied to 60, 70,didn't get a single interview
because I didn't speak thelanguage.
And then eventually this jobpopped up and it was just
fantastic.
Claire Waite Brown (05:45):
Oh, how brilliant.
So how long was it taking youto learn the language while
you're applying for these jobsthen?
And especially, I'm imaginingit's not just everyday language
as well.
There's going to be terminologywithin those fields of work
that are very different.
So how were you learning thatand how did that go?
Well,
Florrie de Havilland (06:05):
there's still quite a few thermal
engineering terms that I don'tactually know in English.
So when I started, it was onlyabout three months, and I was
doing an intensive languagecourse living with my in-laws in
Germany, which, yeah, actuallywent incredibly well living with
them.
I, you know, didn't really knowwhat to think.
I get on with them really well,so that's nice.
(06:27):
And then when I had this job,because there wasn't technically
a job opening, but they saidthat they really liked me and
they wanted for me to do aninternship because normally in
Germany when they studyengineering they have at least
one year of practical knowledgeso internship and so they said
if you do this then we might beable to make the job for you and
(06:50):
yeah after six months there Idid intensive language courses
three days a week for three anda half hours after work and so I
didn't get home until gone 10p.m.
and it was horrible I was sotired and Yeah, but it worked.
I mean, then for my second jobin Munich, all of that was
straight off the bat, all incompletely in German.
Claire Waite Brown (07:12):
Amazing.
Well done.
Thank you.
Before becoming the satellitetester, and I'm going to ask you
more about what that actuallymeans when we get to that point
in the timeline.
You've told me before that youhad a break in Korea due to
health issues and that that waswhen you started to explore
creative activities again.
Can you tell me about thattime?
(07:33):
I
Florrie de Havilland (07:34):
had two years off work.
which weren't particularly funto be honest the first year in
particular was very much justtrying to back and forth from
all these doctor's appointmentsand it was really horrible it
was very stressful I was verylucky that I have the support
network that I do as well Ithink if I didn't have my
husband I would have had to moveback in with my parents you
(07:54):
know so I was very lucky alsohaving friends around me but it
was sad because I was in acompletely different country to
my parents and even my in-lawswere easily seven to nine hour a
drive away but we we managed Iended up with a diagnosis having
neurological disease and thenwas on some medicine for it so
that was you know good to get mesort of back in but um yes I it
(08:19):
was it was pretty awful justsort of being there and not
really being able to doanything.
Claire Waite Brown (08:23):
Can I ask what were the symptoms and then
it took a lot of toing andfroing to get um a diagnosis is
that right?
Florrie de Havilland (08:31):
Yeah so I still believe I don't have a
full diagnosis I think I have adiagnosis and medicine that
helps with it.
But basically my arms didn'talways work or my hands.
So my hands, I wouldn't be ableto move my fingers.
My arms just felt, you know, asif I'd gone to the gym for
hours on end just for doingsmall things like brushing my
(08:54):
teeth.
Actually, when I startedworking in Munich, I did say to
them, look, this is mysituation.
I have this illness.
It's very manageable, but Mygeneral rule of thumb is if I
can't brush my teeth in themorning, I'm going to take a
sick day.
And yeah, they were veryaccepting of that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:14):
So then how do creative activities come
along if it's your hands in yourarms that are feeling the
symptoms?
Florrie de Havilland (09:20):
Slowly.
A lot of watching videos andbeing learning techniques, I
guess, and just sort of beinglike, I can do this.
Go on, I can do this.
And yeah, it was incrediblyfrustrating, but I just had to
get on with it because it justIt felt awful just sort of
seeing everybody when I was 25.
So all of your friends are sortof starting to get engaged.
(09:42):
They're looking at buyinghouses.
I mean, I already had a coupleof friends who were married and
they were moving up in theircareers, setting up companies.
And I was just there sat on thesofa, just like, I can't do
anything.
This is awful.
And so I just thought I need todo something to take my mind
off it.
And because everybody else wasat work, I had all this time
during the day to play with forwhen I was working.
(10:05):
then I could get on with it,learn some new skills.
Claire Waite Brown (10:09):
And what did you turn to?
Was that watercolour at thispoint or lots of things?
Florrie de Havilland (10:14):
Both watercolour and calligraphy.
So I'd always had an inklingthat I would be good at
calligraphy.
I just sort of quite liked theidea of it.
I mean, my handwriting isterrible, but the idea of
calligraphy and having thesebeautiful strokes after lots of
practice and everything, buthaving rules that you can stick
(10:34):
to, but then you can learn tobreak and that's sort of the
engineering coming in and Iquite like having the rigidity
and the rules and then yeahfiguring out how to mess with
them and the watercolor that wasdefinitely a bit more
challenging because I wanted todo it at school but I was a bit
too deep into acrylic so theytold me to stick with what I
(10:54):
know basically so I bought a lotof books watched a lot of
videos and I had paper tapeddown to sort of eight different
boards and would draw the sameflower over and over and over
and over again until it startedto actually look like a flower.
Claire Waite Brown (11:10):
And was that helping you emotionally as well
as like giving you something todo?
Other benefits around it, doyou think?
Florrie de Havillan (11:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, also, even now I stillbenefit from it, seeing some of
my calligraphy.
And some of this was from twoyears into my calligraphy
journey.
And I look at it and I think,wow, I can't believe that I gave
this sort of stuff to myfriends.
I can't believe that they havesome of these commissions on
their wall.
But no, it's fantastic.
(11:42):
And it was really cathartic, Ithink, because doing something,
having, I mean, I didn't alwaysknow my limits at that point.
I'm a lot better at it now.
But it was pretty good knowingI was in control of it.
At that point in time, therewas no way I could have gone
back to work.
And I would have had all thecontrol sort of taken away.
(12:02):
But being able to experimentlike that gave something to do
and feel like I was getting abit of my life back.
Claire Waite Brown (12:10):
Yeah, understand.
So once you've got a diagnosisof sorts and things being
managed, is that when you wereable to go back to work?
And then when you do go back towork, can you keep the creative
stuff going as well?
Florrie de Havilland (12:27):
I think I just set it on LinkedIn that I
was looking for a job and hadn'teven updated everything.
And I've received this messageabout this other job.
And to be fair, Germany werevery good at getting unemployed
people back into the market Sothere was all sorts of
counseling and workshops, likeone-on-one workshops and
everything, which I thought wasfantastic.
(12:48):
And I was having one of thesesort of workshops with this
woman.
She had a workbook that we weregoing through, and that was
more sort of like your emotionsaround going back to work after
being ill.
And I said to her, I called herup and I was like, I've got a
job interview.
Can we go through the jobinterview things instead?
Can we do a mock one?
(13:08):
Because it was all...
told it was all going to be inEnglish the interview and it was
all in German which wasterrifying but I still got the
job so it can't have been thatbad but no and so I was very
open from the beginning about myillness and I did say to them
at one point right I've beenworking on setting up my own
(13:29):
business and I had to sign awaiver to say it wouldn't
interfere with the business thatI was doing there and I said
okay I'm more than happy to dothat and yeah so started working
full time and doing a littlebit on the side for my company.
Claire Waite Brown (13:45):
So tell me then about the satellite
testing.
What do you do on a day to daybasis when you're a satellite
tester?
Florrie de Havilland (13:53):
Well, I mean, there were definitely some
fun parts and some not so funparts.
So there was a lot of documentwriting.
And I was on call a lot.
And that was actually ended upbeing the reason why I left the
job because the being on callwas became a bit too much for
me, not having a single weekendfor about three months.
And then I'd be woken up atfour to seven in the morning,
(14:18):
something like six times.
I'd still have to be in at workat 9am.
And that obviously didn't workreally well with my health.
But no, it was reallyfantastic.
And I'm glad I had thatopportunity.
I would love to do it again,but just I don't think I could
do the on all part.
And that was so testingsatellites and their components.
(14:39):
So I worked on all sorts ofmissions.
One of my big ones was rocketthrusters.
That was really cool.
And solar panels.
I did a lot of solar panels.
So the solar panels that weuse, they're all now up in space
and you can see them every nowand then because they do all the
European GPS.
That's quite cool.
(15:00):
Wow.
When you were just writingdocuments, you would get sort
of, I think, because I had aFitbit at the time, I think I
did something like 2,000 stepsor something at work.
And then the days where I had atest on and we were doing the
(15:23):
test setup or takedown afterpost-test, I would easily do 30
plus thousand per day.
Wow.
Just running around like a madthing.
So the big test chambers weused, they were two meters, two
and a half, three and six.
meters I've now got a fivemeter one since I've left I used
(15:43):
to the thermal vacuum thermalbalance tests which is where you
put the satellite or thecomponent into a so also all in
the clean room as well so I'vegot some really nice safety
shoes that I wear as my trainersnow because they've never been
used outside so put the testobject into the chamber you seal
(16:03):
it off and then depending onthe chamber but generally it
takes about 24 hours to pumpdown to vacuum condition that's
why you have to be on callbecause if it takes a day to get
it down there then somebody hasto be operating it at all times
so if there's something goeswrong because it is a dangerous
bit of kit but then we couldtest well I can't remember what
(16:24):
the upper limit was especiallyif you do like an infrared test
but it was I normally went up tobetween plus 180 and minus 180
degrees and sometimes it will bemore sometimes less but we
could go down to 10 kelvin whichis just incredible that sort of
time just mind-bogglingabsolutely I
Claire Waite Brown (16:47):
did wonder what the on-call was but now
you've explained that
Florrie de Havilland (16:52):
now that makes sense it's really silly
because obviously I was doing itfor so long that you just sort
of think oh yeah of course I wason call but yeah that's not
normal for an engineer I shouldhave explained that sooner
that's
Claire Waite Brown (17:07):
fine you needed to stop that you were
enjoying that but needed to stopthat did you have plans
thinking of what you were goingto do with that before you
stopped that or was it a case oflike I can't do this anymore I
need to stop this and then I'llfigure out what happens next
(17:27):
what did happen next
Florrie de Havilland (17:29):
it was very very sudden if I'm honest I
went downhill quite quickly Ihad probably about two weeks
where I couldn't brush my teethin the morning I was already in
contact with a disabilityofficer because as soon as I
started the job I thought I'mjust gonna find out who's
responsible for these things andjust sort of introduce myself
so that if there are problemsdown the line and I'm glad I did
(17:50):
that because obviously therewere problems down the line and
I said to her look I'm reallystruggling and basically because
of the nature of the job beingon call I couldn't only work
part-time I had to be full-timeor not at all and I'd already
sort of been thinking aboutchanging before it got really
(18:11):
bad to working part-time in aprint shop just to get some
experience for my company.
I wouldn't really be gettingmuch money at all, which is fine
because it was more just Ineeded to be healthy and have a
bit of income.
And so I said to my boss, look,I've spoken to the disabilities
officer.
I've done this.
I really don't think I cancontinue here.
(18:33):
Can I get out of my contractearly?
So we did that.
And I worked for a few monthsin a print shop to learn the
back end of print and how to doall these sorts of things.
And that's been invaluableactually.
And it's been really usefulmaking connections here back in
England and meeting printers andknowing the terminology because
there's so much terminologythat you don't
Claire Waite Brown (18:54):
know you need to know.
Yeah, yeah.
How do we get from being inGermany back to the UK and how
things look for you right now?
Florrie de Havilland (19:04):
Stupidly, I decided to move back two weeks
before my wedding.
Unknown (19:09):
Okay.
Florrie de Havilland (19:09):
which was awful I would not recommend that
to anybody we had to itemizebecause of customs every single
item that we owned so we had notjust the wedding prep but also
this I was actually let go fromthe printing job because they
were struggling and I sort ofsaid right that's fine I'll go
(19:30):
full-time on my company but Isort of hinted at my husband at
this point I think it's time forus to go home it feels like
it's coming to a natural end soit was a few months just getting
things ready.
Yeah.
Itemizing everything.
I didn't enjoy that.
Claire Waite Brown (19:46):
Your business is your full-time gig
now.
Is that correct?
It is.
Good.
How very lovely.
Tell me about it, what you do.
Tell me also how you, becauseyou mentioned earlier about
learning a bit more about theback end of running a business
other than creating the lovelythings that you want to make.
(20:06):
So sorry, I always do this.
I bundle loads of questionstogether and then expect you to
remember it all.
Tell me about what you do inthe business, how you find
balancing business and creativestuff.
And also because you've talkedabout your health, how you
balance that if you have anyissues with that in this
(20:27):
situation.
So there was three questionsthere.
Sorry, Florrie.
Florrie de Havilland (20:29):
All right.
I'll try and remember.
I'll probably go off on atangent anyway.
So the main sort of core twoparts of the business are
designing wedding invitationsand calligraphy.
Wedding stationery in general,not just the invitations.
So that's also things likemenus and seating charts and
everything that comes with it.
(20:49):
I also do in-house letterpressprinting, which is something
that I sort of learned from whenI was working at print shop,
but I didn't really.
They had Heidelberg platen andI said to them, I want to learn
how to use this.
And they said, yeah, good luckmate if you can get it running
(21:12):
and so I went and paid for acourse and came back a week
later fully qualified Heidelbergplaten instructor now
technically even though Iwouldn't really want to do that
because that is a dangerous bitof kit and then yeah bought my
own letterpress found it on eBayand the rest is history I don't
(21:37):
know if you've seen what thissort of bit of kit is but it's a
one and one and a quarter tonprinting press that they call it
the windmill because it hasthese arms that go around like a
windmill but it's a lot fasterI can tell you that much my
one's from 1960 and her name isPenelope and before you use her
(21:58):
you have to go through andthoroughly oil every little bit
and do all the maintenance andthen you can start thinking
about actually using theprinting press love Penelope
love being able to do theprinting in house but that sort
of falls more under the weddinginvitations.
Is that individual lettertiles?
Ah so that's interesting Idon't actually own any of those
(22:20):
the types typeface I could dobut then you don't have as much
freedom for the invitations so Ilike to I've got this amazing
vendor on the Isle of Wight andshe makes these printing plates
for me so then I have anythingso I can even do my own
(22:42):
calligraphy and then I digitizeit and then I send it off to her
and she makes them and sendsthem back
Claire Waite Brown (22:47):
got it
Florrie de Havilland (22:48):
so everything can be completely
individual and personalized ifyou wanted a logo for example
I've done a couple of businesscards and if you wanted a logo
then you can have that andletterpress is when it's
directly pressed into the paperso you have a nice indentation
Claire Waite Brown (23:02):
brilliant got it thank you for explaining
that
Florrie de Havilland (23:06):
I just it's one of those things when
you get too deep into thetechnical stuff stuff then you
forget that not everybody knowsthat but the thing about
letterpress is pretty mucheverybody who does it is a bit
of an odd one because you've gotto be quite special to be very
excited about that sort of thingbut oh my goodness me when you
meet some letterpress friendsit's fantastic because they're
(23:27):
just as crazy as you are
Claire Waite Brown (23:28):
brilliant yeah so when you say about the
wedding stationery then soindividual people can come to
you and you design their wholesuite of what they need.
Florrie de Havillan (23:41):
Absolutely.
Them or wedding planners,whoever really.
I like to work with the couplespersonally because I like to
have a personal experience.
Everything's completelycustomer bespoke.
So everything's unique to thecouple, which is really nice.
So they can really make theirown mark on their wedding.
And I have always said to them,you know, you want your guests
(24:03):
to be able to open the weddinginvitation and say, oh, that is
so Susie and Tom.
Oh, course this is their one sothat even looking at the names
they know who's invited them andit's nice because I can put
some little details on forexample one customer she was
introduced to her now husband byher grandfather and
(24:25):
unfortunately the grandfatherher grandfather passed away
before the wedding and theywanted to honor him somehow and
he had a teapot collection so hehad a little teapot on the
invitations and it just makes itso much more personal and
really makes and a piece of artfor that couple.
Claire Waite Brown (24:42):
I love that idea that when you open the
invitation, you know instantlywhose wedding that is because
that's their vibe, definitely.
And do you have any concerns ormore problematic situations
around the business side ofthings?
Have you got the hang of thatnow and the two, the creating
and the promoting the businesssit hand in hand beautifully,
(25:05):
easily?
Florrie de Havilland (25:06):
I've fallen out out of love again
with social media and I haven'tposted in a long time and I know
that I just need to sit downand do it but If it weren't for
the marketing side, I would loveit.
It's just the marketing thatI'm really, oh, I wasn't born to
(25:27):
do that sort of thing.
I've been actually, since welast spoke, I'm developing an
app for my couples, which isvery exciting.
And it will be the first of itskind.
I didn't mean to get into this.
I never wanted to learn coding.
I don't know how this happened.
But this is the sort of thingthat I enjoy being able to go
off some random tangent andprovide something that's
(25:50):
genuinely useful for people outthere.
Because I found when you, atleast when I was looking for
wedding invitations and how tosort of when to send what, the
information out there is solimited and it's normally big
confusing tables and everything.
So I'm developing, I'm just inthe final stages because it all
(26:10):
works.
I just now need to make it looknice.
Not an actual app you downloadon your phone, but just a little
questionnaire basically.
And it comes up with apersonalized timeline for you.
So it has questions like, areyou having a destination
wedding?
Are you sending save the dates?
Wedding date, obviously being abig one.
And then it tells you exactlywhen to order and when to send
(26:32):
what.
So save the dates, invitationand on the day.
Claire Waite Brown (26:35):
Brilliant.
That's really exciting.
What a good idea.
Florrie de Havilland (26:38):
Yeah.
See, if that was more what Iwas doing, I enjoy doing the
design work.
I enjoy doing even thetechnical things.
I've built my website.
I've thoroughly enjoyed doingthat.
And then there just littlethings like posting on
Instagram, which I just...
can't handle.
But I'll have someone to dothat for me at some point, I'm
(26:58):
sure.
Claire Waite Brown (26:59):
Yeah, that's the best way.
Trying for somebody else to doit.
The bits that you don't like.
And we've talked before on thisshow about, you know, investing
in that, but it's alsoinvesting in saving you time
because that person can do itmuch quicker than you can do it
because they know what they'redoing.
Tell me then about your healthand your creative life balance
(27:23):
generally how is this allaffecting your everyday life in
in many ways emotional physicalmental
Florrie de Havilland (27:31):
the only other downside that I have for
working for myself is that it isa bit lonely because I'm at
home all day every day I do missworking with people a lot and
that has actually definitelyaffected my mental health more
than my physical health hasaffected anything I'm such a
(27:52):
social person but no otherwisemy health hasn't been too bad
it's been fantastic being ableto choose my own hours i mean
for example yesterday i didn'treally do very much until the
evening and i guess i'm alsoquite lucky that i don't have
children yet so i can do thatbut it was good being able to
sort of manage my time in a waythat works best for me
Claire Waite Brown (28:15):
yes exactly and you you can work to your
energy levels when you're atyour best and then other than
this app that you're developinghave you got any thoughts of
what you want to do in thefuture oh I
Florrie de Havilland (28:32):
mean I'd like to do more even more
letterpress because I reallyreally love the letterpress I
love the manual side of the joband it's just yeah I think also
having this massive one and aquarter ton bit of kit under my
control feels pretty empoweringI think I might be a part of it
(28:53):
but But yeah, I would like to domore letterpress and more
calligraphy.
I think I've been advertisingso much about my wedding
stationery, which is, I reallylove the bond with the couples,
don't get me wrong.
But it would be nice to have afew more calligraphy commissions
coming in as well, because Ithoroughly love that.
But that all comes with time,especially because a lot of my
(29:16):
wedding couples ask forcalligraphy.
So quite often I handwrite intoeach individual's name, whether
that's on for their place namesor on the invitations and that
normally goes down very well soyeah we'll see it's nice to have
a mix
Claire Waite Brown (29:32):
yeah brilliant and it sounds like you
are enjoying it and it ismaking you feel happy
Florrie de Havilland (29:40):
yeah I am enjoying it I just obviously you
don't need to put this in butoh my god I hate marketing
Claire Waite Brown (29:48):
but that aside this can be a thing when
what you loved to do physicallywith your hands become a
business, are you still able toget joy from the actual creative
process?
Florrie de Havilland (30:01):
I get so much joy from it.
One of the things that I do aswell is I work quite closely
with Make-A-Wish Foundation.
And I find that so incrediblyrewarding.
I mean, it's incredibly sad aswell, but it feels really nice
to be able to offer them myservices.
So for example, I've done booksignings for this one girl.
(30:22):
Make-A-Wish-Wish was to write abook.
So I did all the invitations tothis.
It feels really lovely to beable to give back in that way
and be creative and have all ofthis sort of input and know that
I'm making a difference tosomebody's life.
Claire Waite Brown (30:38):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much, Florrie.
It's been really lovely tospeak with you.
How can people find you on thedreaded social media and
elsewhere?
I'm
Florrie de Havilland (30:48):
going to be better.
This week, I'm just going to doit.
I'm just do it yes you can findme on Instagram and Facebook at
some point I'm sure I will beon TikTok that is in the works
but I just need to get to gripswith the other social media
platforms first otherwise youcan visit me at my website so
(31:09):
Facebook and Instagram it's deHavilland Memories and the
website isdehavillandmemories.com it's
very nice and simple if you canspell it thank you so much
Florrie yes Thank you so muchfor having me on.
Claire Waite Brown (31:25):
You're very welcome.
I hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
If you did, perhaps you'd liketo financially contribute to
future episodes atbuymeacoffee.com /
creativityfound.
There's a link in the shownotes.
If you are listening on a valuefor value enabled app, such as
Fountain, True Fans or PodcastGuru, feel free to send a few
(31:49):
sats my way.
And if you have no idea of whatI'm talking about, you can find
out more by listening to mysister podcast called Podcasting
2.0 in Practice
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.