September 18, 2024 • 19 mins
What if a simple walk up a creaky staircase could alter your perception of art forever? Join us as we journey to Johannesburg, South Africa, where a teenage encounter with the Phoenix Players and the legendary playwright Athol Fugard planted the seeds of a lifelong understanding of art's power to catalyze social change. We'll recount those youthful days filled with musty old buildings, spirited rehearsals, and life-changing lessons that continue to shape our perspective on activism and the arts.
Dive deep into the transformative role art has played in pivotal social movements, from the stirring protest songs of the civil rights era to the provocative feminist pieces by Judy Chicago and the Gorrilla Girls. Discover how the LGBTQ+ community, Black Lives Matter, and climate change activists use artistic expression to fight for justice and policy reforms. With today's digital tools, artists have more ways than ever to spread their messages globally, proving that art remains an indomitable force for change in our hyper-political world. Tune in for a profound exploration of how creativity can inspire and enact societal transformation.
Thanks for listening.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We're going to begin here.
A long time ago, a long timeago, I walked up a flight of
stairs into a Hattiesburg, southAfrica.
I was a kid, I mean I was ateenager.
My father was stationed thereto the American consulate and I
(00:28):
went to Johannesburg full of asense of adventure, wanted to
see some of the new world, and Imade some contacts and made
some friends and I ended upwalking up this flight of stairs
Drawn to some shouts of music.
I heard heard the top of thestairs bouncing around the
hallway.
It's an old building, probablylong gone by now, but the
(00:51):
memories are sharp, precise.
I mean it's 50 years ago and Ican still smell the whiff of
must, this musty old smell inthe hallway and the wooden
floors kind of creaking as Iwent along and the dirty panes
of frosted glass on the officedoors as I walked down the
(01:14):
hallway, and the black and whitephotos on the walls of singers
and actors and playwrights,magic people.
They seem to me One stops me inmy track the playwright Athol
Fogart, and this is actually histheater company.
To tell you the truth, I don'tactually meet Athol there to
(01:38):
meet a guy called Barney Simon.
The building is called theDorquet House and on the second
floor are the offices in therehearsal space of the Phoenix
Players.
I'm a teenager, I'm a kid, I'mnaive, I'm always naive, always
have been, always will be.
But I'm about to open the doorto this rehearsal and meet the
(02:00):
cast and the band.
I can hear performing on theother side of the door.
But, more than anything, I'mabout to get a life lesson.
Maybe I'm not going to say thebiggest, but the lesson that
really changed me fundamentallyuntil this day.
And I got it there in thatbuilding in Johannesburg, south
(02:24):
Africa, 50 years ago.
Air GGG with Chris Maciel.
What I'm talking about here ishow do the arts influence
political change?
It's important.
(02:45):
We live in this era ofhyper-politics and the arts are
being squashed.
But they're always beingsquashed, and they're always
being squashed for the samereason.
Look, some of the mostsignificant social movements
have relied on the arts as adriving force.
I mean, back in the civilrights movements there were
protest songs like Blowing inthe Wind and Billie Holiday's
(03:06):
Strange Fruit.
They were not just forms ofexpression but anthems of change
.
Masters of War drove millionsto the street.
Masters of War still has muchvalue and punch and emotional.
Just wow, the Fight for Women'sRights.
(03:41):
Feminist art challenge byartists like Judy Chicago and
the Gorrilla Girls.
They talk about themarginalization of women in the
art world and beyond, usingtheir platforms to advocate
social justice.
The LGBTQ plus movement hasalso seen beacons of visibility
and acceptance from the earlydays of the Stonewall Riots,
(04:03):
today's pride celebrations whichtake over whole towns and
neighborhoods.
It's all about makingmarginalized identities visible
and pushing for societal change.
Right?
(04:29):
Art is just as much of a vitaltool for political activism.
I kind of feel like we're beingsqueezed here with all this
artificial intelligence, but I'mnot sure, really, that it's
ultimately going to matter toreal arts.
Look, movements like the BLM,black Lives Matter.
They were heavily influenced byart.
Murals, digital art, protestsigns, painting in the street it
(04:54):
all is done by artists and itis all powering political
movements.
Climate change how about that?
Art is being used to raiseawareness and inspire action,
from eco-art installations toperformance pieces that
highlight environmentaldegradation.
Artists use their talents toadvocate for ecological justice
(05:16):
and urge policy changes.
The digital age has opened upthese new avenues for artists to
blend their work with activism.
Social media platforms haveallowed artists to reach a
global audience instantly.
I mean it's pretty amazing.
It's sort of like a magic time.
As much as it's a pain in theass, as much as it's killing us,
(05:40):
it's also loving us.
Us.
It's also loving us.
Memes, viral videos, online artcampaigns, modern day pamphlets
they're the equivalent ofspreading messages of protests.
It's a two-way street, becausethe rising tide of
disinformation is building firesof fear and hate.
(06:04):
Right, I mean, it's full of it.
There's so much hate butthere's so much love, and I
already went to Vegas and Iplaced a bet on what I think is
going to win.
(06:25):
One of the most powerful aspectsof art is the ability to create
dialogue.
Art can break down barriers andfoster empathy across political
divides.
When people engage with art,they think critically about
issues, making it a valuabletool for creating awareness and
(06:45):
encouraging conversations aboutcomplex subjects.
Art also serves as a bellwetherfor freedom.
When books are banned, freedomis less, and when books are not
banned, that's when we know ourfreedom is not threatened.
What I'm hearing in thehallways of that old building in
(07:05):
Johannesburg years ago is agroup called the Phoenix Players
the Phoenix Players, andthey're practicing a new musical
called Peary.
It's a retelling of BenJohnson's Volponi, but it's much
(07:52):
more than that.
Despite its power, the role ofart as a political force is not
without its challenges.
I mean, one issue is thecommercialization of art.
(08:14):
As art becomes commodified, itspolitical impact is diminished.
And when art is created forprofit, it can lose its edge.
It's message diluted by thepressures of the marketplace,
the sponsors.
(08:34):
When people give you money foryour art, they want a say in
your art.
We're in the age of monetizationand it's gutted art.
I mean.
The price for our digitalconvenience is pretty steep.
I mean, in the digital age,algorithms on social media
platforms and search engines.
You know what they're doing.
They're controlling what artand political messages people
(08:56):
see.
It's like an invisible blocklord, throttling some opinions
and blowing up others.
As people see, it's like aninvisible block lord throttling
some opinions and blowing upothers.
And we live in this incredibleecho chamber where only certain
types of arts and viewpoints arevisible, limiting the broader
political impact art can have.
Art scares power.
It's provocative and nasty.
(09:19):
It's hard to control, but thecontrol tools are sharper and
more precise Than they've everbeen and they are in the hands
of a fast-moving crowd ofShadowy, billionaire digerati.
And those digerati Want controlfor wealth.
(09:40):
Censorship is a challenge andthose digerati want control for
wealth.
Censorship is a challenge, Imean.
During political tensions, suchas the current status of the
United States, governments andcorporations suppress art, which
challenges the status quo.
I wonder how much suppressionof art is going on.
I think a lot actually.
I think of art is going on.
(10:00):
I think a lot actually.
I think a lot is going on.
Plus, I think AI might be anattempt to control art
ultimately.
I mean, who owns that art andwho's actually creating that art
?
You know, if you sit back andsay like, oh, it's just random
(10:21):
algorithms that have sweptacross the internet and are now
remixing all art ever, yeah,that's true, but art still has
power, even when it'sartificially created like that.
So what's the deal?
Who's in charge of this AI art?
Because it's not the people whothink it is, it's not the
(10:41):
randos kind of going on to AIplatforms and writing a little
prompt and getting somethingback and saying I made that.
Yeah, you didn't make it.
And what's the motive of whomade it?
I'm not sure random motivesreally stand up to the test.
What do you think really standup to the test?
What do you think?
(11:11):
Listen, the arts are a potentforce for political and social
change, and I don't expect thatto go away, no matter how many
billionaires try to control us.
From historical revolutions tomodern day movements, art is a
(11:31):
means of protest, a source ofinspiration and a vehicle for
dialogue as we continue tonavigate the complex political
landscapes.
The power of creativity toinfluence and reflect societal
change is not only vital.
(11:54):
Societal change is not onlyvital, but absolutely critical
to the future of humanity.
Artists hold the future ofhumanity in their hands, you
know, and disrupting art isgoing to prove impossible, no
matter how powerful theseDitterati lords believe they are
(12:19):
.
You can never get ahead of anartist in solitude creating a
masterpiece.
Whether through painting orsong or performance or digital
media, the arts will always havethe potential to shape the
(12:39):
world and they will alwaysultimately shape humanity In
profound and fundamental waysMuch deeper than any technology
or any manifestation that isphysical exists, because art
doesn't work in the real world.
(13:01):
It works in the spirit.
How do you think when you walkthrough a museum?
How do you think?
Where do these emotions comefrom?
You can't see them.
There's just canvas on the wallwith some pigment thrown on
there, but somehow it goesacross and it creates an
(13:25):
emotional shape that capturesyou and spins your soul in a
vortex that is beyond anythingthat will ever be created.
There is no singularity in thedigital world.
They hope to get it.
It's not going to be.
It's just going to be anartificial, complete sort of
knowledge base.
(13:46):
But it's never really beenabout the knowledge base.
If you think about the historyof humanity, the same
fundamental truths that were inplace, the same ethics, the same
base.
If you think about the historyof humanity, the same
fundamental truths that were inplace, the same ethics, the same
decisions about what is thebest of our humanity have been
in place since the beginning.
It hasn't evolved.
It's because the truth doesn'tevolve.
(14:08):
The truth of our humanitydoesn't evolve.
It's always been the same.
It's not that we've evolvedinto a new place and now we can
have some kind of fancy, sci-fisingularity.
Wake up.
Not only is it not possible,but it's not even necessary.
(14:29):
I got all involved in this showin South Africa Period With the
Phoenix Players Because I waswhite a teenager, yes, but a
white guy with a diplomaticpassport, which was like magic,
a key to magic in Johannesburgand South Africa during the
height of the apartheid era Icould go anywhere and these guys
asked me to help and I did.
(14:51):
They sent me all over the placeand I was able to get to places
they couldn't get.
And I did.
They sent me all over the placeand I was able to get to places
they couldn't get because Icould just go in.
I could go in and out of thetownships, which were restricted
access areas, but I could getin there.
I was sort of like above thelaw and I used it for good.
I used it to help these Africanartists get their music out.
(15:12):
We toured all around thetownships.
I'm like 18 years old and I'mdropped into this world.
I mean it was stunning.
The first time I saw theproduction of Piri performed in
an African township, I was likenailed to the wall in awe of
what I was seeing.
It was incredible.
Great oppression always createsgreat art.
(15:34):
You know that's just a knownthing.
If you look at the blues andyou look at African music, you
look at any Irish music,anywhere where there was
incredible oppression, you willfind an amazing literary scene,
and Johannesburg in theapartheid era was no different.
(15:55):
We toured around Piri.
As I say, it was based on a BenJohnson play Volponi.
But it wasn't really about that.
It was really about theoppression of the apartheid
regime.
And when we got to Johannesburg,finally, and did our premiere
to a white audience, and did ourpremiere to a white audience,
(16:17):
which we had gotten permissionto do, we had an opening night
and it was incredible.
The energy that came off thestage was just transforming,
riveting, opened our hearts.
(16:37):
We watched this amazingperformance, probably one of the
greatest performances I haveever seen in the last 50 years.
This was back there when I wasa teenager, working on the show
period.
The next morning I opened thepaper Rave reviews, rave reviews
.
Except that the critics said itwas a great piece of subversive
(17:05):
art.
And when the Afrikanergovernment saw that, they closed
the show.
We never performed again.
It was gone.
One night it was gone.
This magic, this incrediblepiece of art was gone One night
it was gone.
(17:26):
This magic, this incrediblepiece of art was gone.
Didn't matter.
They tried to drop a jackbooton the neck of African arts in
the apartheid regime.
It didn't matter, because inthe end the fascists were
gathered up and thrown into thesea, and art was a big part of
(17:50):
that.
I always expected there wouldbe a bloodbath.
In Johannesburg, cape Town,durban, pretoria.
I didn't see there was anyfuture for the apartheid regime
there never is in situationslike that but but the flames of
(18:14):
freedom were kept alive in thetownships by the arts.
Art is a political force.
How do the arts influencepolitical change and why would
(18:35):
the arts want to be suppressed?
Because that's going on andthat's what I feel.
This is Air Jijiji, which is apodcast that comes out of Studio
Jijiji, and we're on here everyweek talking about all the
stuff in the creative industry,and I'm going to get into
(19:03):
talking a little bit about thebusiness too, because I've got a
lot of experience on that sideof the business, as well as
being a writer and a composer.
My name is Chris McHale andplease subscribe, go to our
YouTube channel, join up, go toour website.
When you go to the website, goto the blog.
When you go to the blog, lookup a story called the Lost
Musical.
The Lost Musical, and that'sthe full story of what I've been
(19:23):
talking about the musical Pirithat I worked on many, many
years ago in Johannesburg, southAfrica.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next week.
We're going to begin here.
A long time ago, a long timeago, I walked up a flight of
stairs into a Hattiesburg, southAfrica.
I was a kid, I mean I was ateenager.
My father was stationed thereto the American consulate and I
(00:28):
went to Johannesburg full of asense of adventure, wanted to
see some of the new world, and Imade some contacts and made
some friends and I ended upwalking up this flight of stairs
Drawn to some shouts of music.
I heard heard the top of thestairs bouncing around the
hallway.
It's an old building, probablylong gone by now, but the
(00:51):
memories are sharp, precise.
I mean it's 50 years ago and Ican still smell the whiff of
must, this musty old smell inthe hallway and the wooden
floors kind of creaking as Iwent along and the dirty panes
of frosted glass on the officedoors as I walked down the
(01:14):
hallway, and the black and whitephotos on the walls of singers
and actors and playwrights,magic people.
They seem to me One stops me inmy track the playwright Athol
Fogart, and this is actually histheater company.
To tell you the truth, I don'tactually meet Athol there to
(01:38):
meet a guy called Barney Simon.
The building is called theDorquet House and on the second
floor are the offices in therehearsal space of the Phoenix
Players.
I'm a teenager, I'm a kid, I'mnaive, I'm always naive, always
have been, always will be.
But I'm about to open the doorto this rehearsal and meet the
(02:00):
cast and the band.
I can hear performing on theother side of the door.
But, more than anything, I'mabout to get a life lesson.
Maybe I'm not going to say thebiggest, but the lesson that
really changed me fundamentallyuntil this day.
And I got it there in thatbuilding in Johannesburg, south
(02:24):
Africa, 50 years ago.
Air GGG with Chris Maciel.
What I'm talking about here ishow do the arts influence
political change?
It's important.
(02:45):
We live in this era ofhyper-politics and the arts are
being squashed.
But they're always beingsquashed, and they're always
being squashed for the samereason.
Look, some of the mostsignificant social movements
have relied on the arts as adriving force.
I mean, back in the civilrights movements there were
protest songs like Blowing inthe Wind and Billie Holiday's
(03:06):
Strange Fruit.
They were not just forms ofexpression but anthems of change
.
Masters of War drove millionsto the street.
Masters of War still has muchvalue and punch and emotional.
Just wow, the Fight for Women'sRights.
(03:41):
Feminist art challenge byartists like Judy Chicago and
the Gorrilla Girls.
They talk about themarginalization of women in the
art world and beyond, usingtheir platforms to advocate
social justice.
The LGBTQ plus movement hasalso seen beacons of visibility
and acceptance from the earlydays of the Stonewall Riots,
(04:03):
today's pride celebrations whichtake over whole towns and
neighborhoods.
It's all about makingmarginalized identities visible
and pushing for societal change.
Right?
(04:29):
Art is just as much of a vitaltool for political activism.
I kind of feel like we're beingsqueezed here with all this
artificial intelligence, but I'mnot sure, really, that it's
ultimately going to matter toreal arts.
Look, movements like the BLM,black Lives Matter.
They were heavily influenced byart.
Murals, digital art, protestsigns, painting in the street it
(04:54):
all is done by artists and itis all powering political
movements.
Climate change how about that?
Art is being used to raiseawareness and inspire action,
from eco-art installations toperformance pieces that
highlight environmentaldegradation.
Artists use their talents toadvocate for ecological justice
(05:16):
and urge policy changes.
The digital age has opened upthese new avenues for artists to
blend their work with activism.
Social media platforms haveallowed artists to reach a
global audience instantly.
I mean it's pretty amazing.
It's sort of like a magic time.
As much as it's a pain in theass, as much as it's killing us,
(05:40):
it's also loving us.
Us.
It's also loving us.
Memes, viral videos, online artcampaigns, modern day pamphlets
they're the equivalent ofspreading messages of protests.
It's a two-way street, becausethe rising tide of
disinformation is building firesof fear and hate.
(06:04):
Right, I mean, it's full of it.
There's so much hate butthere's so much love, and I
already went to Vegas and Iplaced a bet on what I think is
going to win.
(06:25):
One of the most powerful aspectsof art is the ability to create
dialogue.
Art can break down barriers andfoster empathy across political
divides.
When people engage with art,they think critically about
issues, making it a valuabletool for creating awareness and
(06:45):
encouraging conversations aboutcomplex subjects.
Art also serves as a bellwetherfor freedom.
When books are banned, freedomis less, and when books are not
banned, that's when we know ourfreedom is not threatened.
What I'm hearing in thehallways of that old building in
(07:05):
Johannesburg years ago is agroup called the Phoenix Players
the Phoenix Players, andthey're practicing a new musical
called Peary.
It's a retelling of BenJohnson's Volponi, but it's much
(07:52):
more than that.
Despite its power, the role ofart as a political force is not
without its challenges.
I mean, one issue is thecommercialization of art.
(08:14):
As art becomes commodified, itspolitical impact is diminished.
And when art is created forprofit, it can lose its edge.
It's message diluted by thepressures of the marketplace,
the sponsors.
(08:34):
When people give you money foryour art, they want a say in
your art.
We're in the age of monetizationand it's gutted art.
I mean.
The price for our digitalconvenience is pretty steep.
I mean, in the digital age,algorithms on social media
platforms and search engines.
You know what they're doing.
They're controlling what artand political messages people
(08:56):
see.
It's like an invisible blocklord, throttling some opinions
and blowing up others.
As people see, it's like aninvisible block lord throttling
some opinions and blowing upothers.
And we live in this incredibleecho chamber where only certain
types of arts and viewpoints arevisible, limiting the broader
political impact art can have.
Art scares power.
It's provocative and nasty.
(09:19):
It's hard to control, but thecontrol tools are sharper and
more precise Than they've everbeen and they are in the hands
of a fast-moving crowd ofShadowy, billionaire digerati.
And those digerati Want controlfor wealth.
(09:40):
Censorship is a challenge andthose digerati want control for
wealth.
Censorship is a challenge, Imean.
During political tensions, suchas the current status of the
United States, governments andcorporations suppress art, which
challenges the status quo.
I wonder how much suppressionof art is going on.
I think a lot actually.
I think of art is going on.
(10:00):
I think a lot actually.
I think a lot is going on.
Plus, I think AI might be anattempt to control art
ultimately.
I mean, who owns that art andwho's actually creating that art
?
You know, if you sit back andsay like, oh, it's just random
(10:21):
algorithms that have sweptacross the internet and are now
remixing all art ever, yeah,that's true, but art still has
power, even when it'sartificially created like that.
So what's the deal?
Who's in charge of this AI art?
Because it's not the people whothink it is, it's not the
(10:41):
randos kind of going on to AIplatforms and writing a little
prompt and getting somethingback and saying I made that.
Yeah, you didn't make it.
And what's the motive of whomade it?
I'm not sure random motivesreally stand up to the test.
What do you think really standup to the test?
What do you think?
(11:11):
Listen, the arts are a potentforce for political and social
change, and I don't expect thatto go away, no matter how many
billionaires try to control us.
From historical revolutions tomodern day movements, art is a
(11:31):
means of protest, a source ofinspiration and a vehicle for
dialogue as we continue tonavigate the complex political
landscapes.
The power of creativity toinfluence and reflect societal
change is not only vital.
(11:54):
Societal change is not onlyvital, but absolutely critical
to the future of humanity.
Artists hold the future ofhumanity in their hands, you
know, and disrupting art isgoing to prove impossible, no
matter how powerful theseDitterati lords believe they are
(12:19):
.
You can never get ahead of anartist in solitude creating a
masterpiece.
Whether through painting orsong or performance or digital
media, the arts will always havethe potential to shape the
(12:39):
world and they will alwaysultimately shape humanity In
profound and fundamental waysMuch deeper than any technology
or any manifestation that isphysical exists, because art
doesn't work in the real world.
(13:01):
It works in the spirit.
How do you think when you walkthrough a museum?
How do you think?
Where do these emotions comefrom?
You can't see them.
There's just canvas on the wallwith some pigment thrown on
there, but somehow it goesacross and it creates an
(13:25):
emotional shape that capturesyou and spins your soul in a
vortex that is beyond anythingthat will ever be created.
There is no singularity in thedigital world.
They hope to get it.
It's not going to be.
It's just going to be anartificial, complete sort of
knowledge base.
(13:46):
But it's never really beenabout the knowledge base.
If you think about the historyof humanity, the same
fundamental truths that were inplace, the same ethics, the same
base.
If you think about the historyof humanity, the same
fundamental truths that were inplace, the same ethics, the same
decisions about what is thebest of our humanity have been
in place since the beginning.
It hasn't evolved.
It's because the truth doesn'tevolve.
(14:08):
The truth of our humanitydoesn't evolve.
It's always been the same.
It's not that we've evolvedinto a new place and now we can
have some kind of fancy, sci-fisingularity.
Wake up.
Not only is it not possible,but it's not even necessary.
(14:29):
I got all involved in this showin South Africa Period With the
Phoenix Players Because I waswhite a teenager, yes, but a
white guy with a diplomaticpassport, which was like magic,
a key to magic in Johannesburgand South Africa during the
height of the apartheid era Icould go anywhere and these guys
asked me to help and I did.
(14:51):
They sent me all over the placeand I was able to get to places
they couldn't get.
And I did.
They sent me all over the placeand I was able to get to places
they couldn't get because Icould just go in.
I could go in and out of thetownships, which were restricted
access areas, but I could getin there.
I was sort of like above thelaw and I used it for good.
I used it to help these Africanartists get their music out.
(15:12):
We toured all around thetownships.
I'm like 18 years old and I'mdropped into this world.
I mean it was stunning.
The first time I saw theproduction of Piri performed in
an African township, I was likenailed to the wall in awe of
what I was seeing.
It was incredible.
Great oppression always createsgreat art.
(15:34):
You know that's just a knownthing.
If you look at the blues andyou look at African music, you
look at any Irish music,anywhere where there was
incredible oppression, you willfind an amazing literary scene,
and Johannesburg in theapartheid era was no different.
(15:55):
We toured around Piri.
As I say, it was based on a BenJohnson play Volponi.
But it wasn't really about that.
It was really about theoppression of the apartheid
regime.
And when we got to Johannesburg,finally, and did our premiere
to a white audience, and did ourpremiere to a white audience,
(16:17):
which we had gotten permissionto do, we had an opening night
and it was incredible.
The energy that came off thestage was just transforming,
riveting, opened our hearts.
(16:37):
We watched this amazingperformance, probably one of the
greatest performances I haveever seen in the last 50 years.
This was back there when I wasa teenager, working on the show
period.
The next morning I opened thepaper Rave reviews, rave reviews
.
Except that the critics said itwas a great piece of subversive
(17:05):
art.
And when the Afrikanergovernment saw that, they closed
the show.
We never performed again.
It was gone.
One night it was gone.
This magic, this incrediblepiece of art was gone One night
it was gone.
(17:26):
This magic, this incrediblepiece of art was gone.
Didn't matter.
They tried to drop a jackbooton the neck of African arts in
the apartheid regime.
It didn't matter, because inthe end the fascists were
gathered up and thrown into thesea, and art was a big part of
(17:50):
that.
I always expected there wouldbe a bloodbath.
In Johannesburg, cape Town,durban, pretoria.
I didn't see there was anyfuture for the apartheid regime
there never is in situationslike that but but the flames of
(18:14):
freedom were kept alive in thetownships by the arts.
Art is a political force.
How do the arts influencepolitical change and why would
(18:35):
the arts want to be suppressed?
Because that's going on andthat's what I feel.
This is Air Jijiji, which is apodcast that comes out of Studio
Jijiji, and we're on here everyweek talking about all the
stuff in the creative industry,and I'm going to get into
(19:03):
talking a little bit about thebusiness too, because I've got a
lot of experience on that sideof the business, as well as
being a writer and a composer.
My name is Chris McHale andplease subscribe, go to our
YouTube channel, join up, go toour website.
When you go to the website, goto the blog.
When you go to the blog, lookup a story called the Lost
Musical.
The Lost Musical, and that'sthe full story of what I've been
(19:23):
talking about the musical Pirithat I worked on many, many
years ago in Johannesburg, southAfrica.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next week.
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