October 29, 2024 • 49 mins
Join us as we unlock the secrets of voice casting with Dane Gorman, a top-tier casting director and founder of Speaks Casting. Discover the often-overlooked magic that casting breathes into audio dramas, transforming mere scripts into award-winning productions. Together, Dane and I share our journeys and lessons from our collaboration on "Song in Space," a project highlighting the power of the perfect voice to turn complex narratives into engaging experiences.
Our conversation is nostalgic as we reminisce about the golden days of voice discovery when talents like Jim Gaffigan and Liev Schreiber first emerged. The landscape of the voiceover industry is undergoing a seismic shift, with talents now sprouting from every corner of the globe, thanks to the rise of home studios. We reflect on balancing the art of structured creative processes with the innovative possibilities offered by new technologies, ensuring that quality and authenticity remain at the heart of voice casting.
Explore the intricate world of professional voiceover studios as we discuss the technical and financial commitments needed to deliver top-notch productions. We unpack everything from the challenges of home studio setups to the undeniable benefits of professional environments. Learn about the importance of minimizing technical distractions so that talent can truly shine, and celebrate the dedication and resilience required in this competitive field. Wrap up this enriching journey with us as we thank Dane for her invaluable insights and invite you to continue exploring the ever-evolving landscape of voice casting and storytelling.
Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Mchale (00:07):
Hello and welcome to Creativity Jijijii.
It's time to get your Jijiji on.
On this podcast we talk aboutall things to do with creativity
, the flex and the flow ofbusiness, the art and the
practice of being an artist,being a working artist.
(00:29):
So if you're a composer, awriter, an actor, a voiceover, a
producer, if you do soundtracksfor advertising or video games
or whatever you get up to, if ithas to do with sound and
soundtracks and producingvoiceover performances,
(00:49):
directing, writing audio dramas,whatever you get up to, if
you're interested to any of thatstuff, you are going to want to
listen to this podcast.
We have a lot of reallyinteresting things going on.
My name is Chris McHale.
We've been here, I've been inthis business a long time and
I've pretty much covered everybase there is to cover in this
(01:11):
business and I want to share itall with you.
I just want to share the stuffand share the people I know, and
we're going to start today witha great guest and we're going
to talk about something thatdoesn't get talked about a lot,
but what is actually a criticalpiece of the process of putting
(01:35):
together great, award-winningwork, and that is casting,
casting, finding the right voice.
It's where you start, and we'lltalk about all that.
And to talk about all that,we're bringing in Dane Gorman,
(01:56):
and Dane is a front-rank castingdirector.
She's out there, she's working.
She's working at it every day.
She's out there, she's working,she's working at it every day.
She's like me.
She's worked through thetransitions from what the
business was before to what thebusiness is now, and we're both
(02:19):
still out here pounding away atit, and we want to share some
insights into this beautiful,arcane and essential part of our
work casting casting for voices.
So let's get right to it.
(02:43):
Dane Gorman is the founder andCEO of Speaks Casting.
Dane say hello, hello, hello.
I'm so happy you joined me.
Dane and I have been working ona project called Song in Space,
which has been an epic projectand it's just fabulous, and she
(03:03):
worked very hard to get thesevoices together and the cast.
I think it's like, in total,when you look at all eight
episodes, it's going to be over20 voices, but there's a core
seven or eight voices that arejust fantastic.
I mean it's really, reallyincredible.
When it comes to a storytellingas complicated or complex and
(03:28):
nuanced as Song in Space, I meanjust no way, no way, no way,
just no way.
You can use anybody butincredible voice actors to
really communicate a story likethis.
Tell us a story like this.
Dane Gorman (03:44):
Well, the longer we've gone working on Song in
Space and actually doing some ofthe recording for episode one,
now, when I hear the actors'voices when they're auditioning
for me for something else, all Ican hear is their character in
Song in Space, because they havebecome the character and it's
(04:06):
so good.
Chris Mchale (04:08):
Oh, that's incredible.
I know what you mean.
We did Song in Space by justcasting it first, and we cast
the first episode and then I hadto slog through for about nine
months writing the other eightepisodes.
As I was writing, the charactervoices were there.
It became easier and easierbecause I knew exactly what the
characters sounded like.
So you know, if you're going todo a big audio drama, I suggest
(04:30):
you get your voices first.
That's my recommendation, and Ialso suggest you call Dane
because she's really a genius atthis stuff.
I'm so touched.
We actually go back a long way.
I mean, what would you say?
How many years?
Or you don't want to say howmany years generally?
Let's keep it young yeah allthe way back to like 2016.
I think we've been in thisbusiness a long time and we both
(04:55):
have had a lot of success inthis business and we have both
worked with some of theoutstanding-the-line audio
content creatives.
My company, mchale Barone, wasa big audio content company in
New York, and, dane, give us alittle bit of your background
(05:18):
real quick.
Dane Gorman (05:20):
Well, the reason I became a casting director was
because I was an in-houseadvertising agency music
producer at Young Rubicam a longwhile ago and the music
producers actually produced theaudio for the radio spots.
(05:43):
And a lot of people in mydepartment didn't like the radio
and I was like I love radio.
I mean, we had so much fun in asession with some of the best
engineers, like Arnie Rosen andsome amazing people, and I said
I'll do the radio, I'll do themusic too, but I'll do the radio
(06:05):
.
Bring it on.
And from there, bart Radiohired me to be an executive
producer for his company out inSeattle, washington, and I did
that for several years.
But while I was there, we weregetting casting in from other
casting directors and I kept.
I'm not really happy with thiscasting, I really think we could
(06:27):
do it better and I ended updoing the casting at BART Radio
and then, when I left BART, Idecided to reinvent myself as a
casting director in 2009.
And I haven't regretted aminute of it.
Chris Mchale (06:40):
So Well, I think you're incredible.
You know, I owned a castingcompany of one kind and I wish
you had worked with me because Ireally like it.
We've had we've had some greatcasting directors, but I've
always liked casting directors,um, who listen and sort of get
the creative aspect of this andit's everything to me as a a
(07:01):
writer you know, I also playguitar and a composer, and the
voices are just like myinstrument as a creative.
They add to it.
I get a real rush when I hearvoices and I start working with
them and it's really magic.
We're not only talking aboutradio, I mean.
We're talking about advertising, television, film animation
(07:24):
yeah, video games.
I mean it's a big, vibrantfield that is under a lot of
stress right now.
Dane Gorman (07:35):
Can I tell one funny story really fast?
And then we can go back.
We can talk about the futureand the state of things today,
the future and the state ofthings today.
But I was working back this isa long time ago at a session
where the writer it was for softdrink I'm not going to name the
product and the creative reallywanted the person to sound like
(07:59):
they were upside down drinkingsome soft drink and talking at
the same time.
Oh wow, down drinking some softdrink and talking at the same
time, oh wow.
And so we're like, okay, wewill just record the voice and
then we'll play around with itand we'll try to add things to
it and maybe you know the, youknow the slogging of the drink,
and we'll we'll make it work inpost.
(08:19):
We don't have to get, you know,the actor too, involved with
this, but the creative and herassistant were adamant that this
be real.
And she wanted us to turn thetalent upside down and have them
record speaking upside down, soI digress, but anyway, that was
(08:43):
a real fun one.
Chris Mchale (08:46):
Yeah, you just had to go to Barnum and Bailey
Circus.
I'm sure there would have beenactors there that would have
loved to do it.
You know there's, there'sactually it's.
That's a funny story, but youknow, I I do understand where
the writer was coming from alittle bit.
I remember we did a spot uhthat was, I think it was like a
Halloween spot or something, andthe actor was supposed to be
bobbing for apples.
So so you know, we did it.
(09:07):
We got a big bucket, we gotsome apples.
Joe barone went into the studiooh, I'm not lying.
Dane Gorman (09:12):
We did let the actor agreed to go upside down
and oh, you're saying the actordid go upside, oh yeah no, I am
saying we actually.
I mean, I tried to prevent itfrom happening, but the actor
was like you know, that's thethe thing about a voice actor,
they'll give it their all.
And they were like if that'swhat she wants, I can try it.
And I remember arnie going no,no, no, I don't think we need to
(09:32):
try it.
And the actors she's like yes,we need to try it.
Her name, I'm not gonna say hername anyway.
Chris Mchale (09:37):
So wait a minute, were you like in super dupe with
arnie's?
Dane Gorman (09:40):
yeah, we were in super dupe and we we turned the
actor.
He said I can stand on my handsagainst the wall.
We put the mic down there andwe actually did it.
Chris Mchale (09:51):
The guy was like a yoga master.
Dane Gorman (09:52):
He was like it was incredible, and later, after
everybody left, we AB'd whatArnie had done in post and then
the upside down voice and therereally wasn't any difference.
Chris Mchale (10:05):
but yeah, I would imagine there's, especially with
a trained actor.
I would imagine yeah, yeah,that's.
That's great, though I hope youtook a picture of that really I
didn't.
Dane Gorman (10:15):
I would only only picture I have is sitting on
george c scott's lap from supertube.
Chris Mchale (10:21):
I don't know why I kept that one, you know the
thing that's driving me crazyright now more than anything, is
the pace of change.
It's like I got into thisbusiness and it was very stable.
You kind of learned, you knowthe techniques and the roots and
you, you built your network.
Dane Gorman (10:42):
Well, you know we did go through.
I think one of the most thebiggest changes in the industry
for casting was I can't eventell you how many years ago when
the first pay-to-play sitescame.
So all you know, actors werepaying their fees and putting
their voice and resume on thesepay-to-play sites and a lot of
(11:05):
producers and agencies andcreatives stopped going to
casting directors.
It's not like all the businesswas gone, but they went to the
pay-to-play sites to find theircasting and what was cool and
what I think might happen withAI as well didn't quite work to
(11:26):
perfection.
Maybe if you had a low budgetand you couldn't afford a
casting director, you'd go thatroute, but all the business
ended up coming back to thecasting directors because the
producer and the creatives don'thave time to listen to 200
voices.
Chris Mchale (11:41):
Yeah, it's like I know, in the old days, when we
were in the city, when you, whenwe were in the city, when I was
a young guy in the city, youknow, to make some money I
joined central casting you know,and you would just, you
literally would sit in a roomdown there all day reading
newspapers and reading books and, um, you know, and, and
somebody would look out thewindow and say, hey, you come up
here and they would give you alittle card and you go, you do
(12:03):
the job.
There were like be 100, 150people in the room and you're
just kind of waiting, you know,and I think that that's that's
what you're talking about.
Like you go to one of thesepaid places and you're, you know
, there's three, 400, maybe 500auditions.
So it's, it's really crazy.
As a producer, it's, I don'tknow.
I have not had too much success.
I hired one voiceover when Iwas in a jam, but yeah, no, you
(12:28):
need.
I'm really a big fan of castingdirectors.
Dane Gorman (12:33):
It's not even the casting directors, it's just the
whole process of collaborationI think is so important in
creativity well and I think whatyou know a lot of times
producers are overwhelmed andtheir turnaround times have
changed drastically becausetechnology has gotten so good,
(12:54):
so used to you have a week topull in some voices and really
work at it, but now theturnaround times sometimes are
the same day.
I need, I need a guy thatsounds like you know, uh, action
figure, hero, dude, uh, deepvoice, villainous, and I need it
(13:14):
in five hours, and so you'relike that's why they call you
basically right, so that that Imean, that's the thing that's
changed.
The most is the timeline.
So I have to really hone in onmy craft as, as and keep a
database of who I really lovevocally.
(13:35):
Sometimes I like to open it upbecause there are tons of new
people out there and I lovegiving new people a chance, and
you never know, you're going todiscover this next great voice
that everybody wants to use ifyou don't open it up.
But if you, you know, sometimeswhen you're in a hurry you have
to go to the pool of peoplethat you absolutely know can
pull this off and hopefullythey're at home waiting at their
(13:58):
very high quality home studioso that they can turn this
around for you really quickly.
Chris Mchale (14:04):
Oh man, I'm going to get into a little bit of that
later on, I think.
But I think that you saidsomething in passing that has
really always been true, whichis that new voices really are
gold.
There's just nothing morepowerful.
And we've seen it, you know.
We've seen like somebody comeonto the New York advertising
scene and just take off like arocket ship.
I have witnessed the launch ofsome pretty famous people that
(14:28):
way.
Jim Gaffigan was a guy who Ithink he was working at a as an
account exec, I think at anagency, you know.
Next thing, you know he's likeone of the top voiceover guys.
Dane Gorman (14:41):
It's like Lee Ed Schreiber, I think.
He was a bike messenger and heused to bike in and you know we
would book him because we justheard something so great in his
voice, you know, and he becamethe voice of a certain client
and he would ride his bicyclefrom Brooklyn all the way into
Manhattan to record, come in allsweaty, but he was amazing, he
(15:03):
was amazing and he still is.
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah,probably.
Yes, he does less voiceoverwork.
Yeah.
Chris Mchale (15:09):
I don't think he's doing.
Part of the business is doesn'tfunction the same way.
I don't think, you know, wewere kind of all contained.
It was like the entirevoiceover industry was either in
New York City or in LA, youknow, and that was it.
That was kind of it.
You had to kind of make yourchoice as a creative, as an
(15:31):
artist, as an actor, one ofthose two cities.
Dane Gorman (15:34):
Well, there were differences in the cities.
There were differences in thecities, like you went to New
York for your you know, youractor, your narrator, maybe your
documentary film voice and yourcommercial voices, and you went
to LA for some commercialvoices, but you also went there
for animation and cartoons.
I mean, that's kind of what thedifferences were, but now there
(15:56):
are no differences.
Chris Mchale (15:58):
Yeah, there are no differences, and I think
there's a lot of disadvantageswith that.
There's no differences.
Yeah, there are no differences,and I think there's a lot of
disadvantages with that, there'sno doubt, but I'm getting used
to it.
Dane Gorman (16:07):
Well, and now there's more cities to pull from
.
Chris Mchale (16:08):
Yeah, I mean, you're sitting in Nashville.
Dane Gorman (16:10):
Yeah, I'm in Nashville.
I get a lot of great voicesfrom where you are in Chicago.
Chris Mchale (16:14):
Yeah, I'm in Chicago.
Dane Gorman (16:15):
I find great voices in Austin, Texas, Atlanta,
Georgia.
I have a great couple of actorsthat I work with out of New
Mexico.
So because we've gone remoteand everybody's getting their
home studios, we don't go intoan actual casting session
(16:37):
anymore, which does open it wideup to find a unique voice.
I do miss those days where wehad a casting session and you
brought in your 20, 25 peoplethat you thought were amazing or
maybe the agent would throw anew person in, and then they
came to you and you directedthem through the audition and
(17:00):
then you tightened it up and yousent it to you know the
creatives, and it was Look, wewon a lot of awards in that
company in New York.
Chris Mchale (17:09):
It all began with the casting because I would you
know the casting directors.
If we got busy, the castingdirectors would do their thing
and we had some great castingdirectors over the years.
But as a director I wanted todo the casting as much as
possible, at least part of it.
I mean, if it's going to be a60 voice session, it was hard to
get in there, but I would go infor direction.
It would really help me, youknow, refine the script, find
(17:34):
out what, what we really arelooking for.
It was a process and we'vetaken a lot of that process out
and it's been difficult toreplace honestly.
Dane Gorman (17:42):
And who knows better?
Like you?
Being the director at yourcompany and the creative, you
know exactly what it is you'relooking for.
Yeah, you know as a castingdirector, I've got to interpret
what you're looking for and thenI give it to an actor and then
they're interpreting what Iinterpreted, what you said you
(18:04):
wanted.
So, the cutting to the chasesometimes is amazing, and I do
know a few advertising agenciesthat would love to get back to
that.
Chris Mchale (18:15):
Well in this marketplace, if you want to be
competitive, that should be partof your process.
That's the way I feel about it.
I don't care what anybody says.
You know, process is reallyimportant to creativity and
creativity is a competitive edge.
So it doesn't surprise me tohear that agencies and people
like that are, you know,stepping back a little bit.
(18:35):
There were some other aspectsof that process that were sort
of fascinating to me.
Stepping back a little bit,there was some other aspects of
that process that was sort offascinating to me, like, for
instance, basically the rule ofthumb was an actor would go into
a booth and he'd read thescript twice.
He'd read it once and then you'dgive them some direction, then
he'd read it a second time andthen they were out.
You know, it was like thanks.
And then we had this magicalthing we call a callback, which
(18:59):
is like, you know, we would addthe, let's say, 50 actors we
auditioned, we bring back two orthree and just kind of like,
really, you know, drill down onit until we found exactly what
we were looking for.
And, you know, sometimes wethrow in some wild cards.
You know, if we hadn't heard,it was just by the time we got
out of the casting session I washalfway there as to how I was
(19:20):
going to direct these spots.
You know, I kind of knew whatwe were looking for.
I could start hearing it, startgetting it in your ears, and
all of that began with casting.
There's no doubt about it.
Dane Gorman (19:30):
Well, and you know, a lot of times because we've
been doing this for so long,there are a lot of young
creatives and young producersand they're they're learning,
you know, and they're they'realso miles ahead of me with some
of the technology and stuffbecause it comes so easy for
(19:50):
them, but they're learning.
The process still works the waywe were kind of doing it, and I
think what if I could give anactor any advice, as they're
growing and learning thisindustry not people who are
(20:10):
already doing it is makeyourself versatile.
You know, really, really, takeacting classes.
Don't take a voiceover class.
If you want to take a voiceoverclass, take a voiceover class
that teaches you about theindustry, but not how to
interpret or read a script,because a lot of times I'll get
(20:32):
auditions back and they've allgone to the same voiceover
acting class and so theyemphasize every word the same,
the cadences are all the sameand nothing sets them apart.
So I would just say hone yourcraft and become versatile.
Take an improv class.
(20:52):
Take acting class.
You know, do some theater.
Just, you know, give.
Give yourself the opportunityto show the creatives and the
casting directors that you cantake direction and you can
change your approach instantlyif they're not happy with it.
(21:13):
And sometimes that's lost onpeople.
That's sometimes that's lost onpeople.
Sometimes, I think, when peoplesee the casting specs, they get
in a hurry just to throw theaudition back and it's like they
didn't even read the specs.
Chris Mchale (21:30):
If I feel like I'm working with an actor who can
take direction, then I feel likeI'm going to be able to get a
performance that is going tomake my clients happy.
Dane Gorman (21:38):
Basically, it just comes down to that.
Chris Mchale (21:40):
I'm assuming that anybody who steps up to a
microphone and auditions is, youknow, ready to do some basic
sort of stuff, which is not thecase.
But I assume I, you know youand I both work in pro with pros
a lot, so we're kind of used tothat.
You know they come in withtheir voices warmed up and they
come in with a bottle of waterand they come up, you know,
(22:00):
ready to rock and, more thananything, they take direction
and I've never studied acting,so I don't.
I do have a son who's an actress, but uh, that is, that is a
magical ability and you can spotit almost instantly.
So I mean, I think that you andI work together and and I've
probably asked you that verysame question I'll hear voice, I
like.
And the next question out of mymouth is like, can they take
(22:21):
direction?
And I'm totally reliant on thecasting director for that answer
.
Dane Gorman (22:27):
Well, and I feel bad for actors these days who
want to make a living invoiceover, because unfortunately
, the and I'm not sure wherethis all breaks down or how it
can be corrected but they wantto hear the audition be perfect,
(22:50):
as if they could just take itand plop it right into the spot,
mix it and finish it, eventhough they're going to have a
recording session.
They don't want to send voicesto their clients unless it's
exactly what is going to be thefinished product, and we didn't
do it that way.
We loved someone because weloved their voice and we knew
(23:11):
they had the and, you know,maybe give them some direction,
maybe it lasted only a half anhour, you know, and everybody
was happy, but now they expectthe audition to sound like the
final product, and that's justnot fair.
Yeah, no, I think a lot of thatis the managing of the client,
(23:36):
because that's what could happenwhen they're presenting the
voice saying this is the voicewe like the voice, because
that's that's what could happenin when they're presenting the
voice saying this is the voicewe like the voice because of
this.
But when we go into the session, we're going to direct them and
get the exact performance thatwe're looking for, and we can't
do it that way anymore becausenobody's you know managing their
client the way that I wouldhope that they would, so we have
(23:58):
to.
We have to have a voice that'salmost finished.
That's why the actor needs totake more time when they're
looking at the spec and try todeliver it the best they can.
Chris Mchale (24:09):
Beautiful thing about McHale-Burone was we did
hundreds of spots a year, so wewere able to really hone our
chops with how to get this done.
You know, I mean, I, I mean weprobably did.
Somebody told me once we did30,000 spots.
I don't know if that's true ornot, but you know, um, but I, I
can believe it.
We had two or three directorsat any one time.
(24:31):
We know we had six recordingstudios.
So we were, we were rockingaround the clock.
I don't think we set out to makea process, but as a producer I
knew that I was going to getwhat I needed in like eight,
nine takes.
And if the session went to liketake 15, there was something
really wrong, like the wrong guy.
(24:51):
Yeah, the magic take would bethree, four, five, you know,
maybe six Somewhere in thosefour takes.
It would be like magic.
And then it was like just mopup, you know, maybe pick up a
couple of wild lines or, youknow, do some different stuff.
But it was, you know, and wedid spot after spot after spot,
and it was always the same.
So that led me to conclude that, you know, the best
(25:14):
performances were going to bethe early performances.
And that leads me to say toactors when you're doing home
recordings, you know, study thescript, mark it up, get it in
your mouth, rehearse it,practice it.
Then open your mic and read ittwo times and send it off.
You know, I really think you'regoing to stand a better chance
of booking a job if you do that.
(25:34):
If you start editing it andgoing in and replacing this
phrase and trying to get this,you're going to drive yourself
crazy.
I've done that.
You know.
You can spend all day recordinga 30-second script.
I mean, you're on the wrongpath.
I really believe that what youwant is a performance, you know,
and just like any performance,you need to rehearse that and
(25:56):
then it's go time.
The curtain goes up, read thescript, you know, step back a
little bit, take a breath, takesome water, step up the script.
Dane Gorman (26:06):
You know, step back a little bit, take a breath,
take some water, sip up, do asecond read.
Well, a lot of actors are onlygiving, they're only sending in
one.
Take you know they only send inone take, but they, they, they
slave over it yeah, they do, butI mean, I wish, I wish, my, I
would love to hear them.
Do that first, take the way youknow, know, like you said
originally, like in an audition,live audition.
(26:27):
Do that.
Take the way they interpret thescript.
And do a second take the waythat the specs are telling you
to interpret the script and thatway you are already showing in
your audition that you have somerange.
Chris Mchale (26:38):
This is where the process is a little awkward.
This is where the process is alittle awkward and I think why
agencies are backing up intolive auditions, because really
you need a director in betweenthose two takes yes, marked up.
(26:59):
But you know, the best actorscome in with those scripts
marked up there that you knowthey've really thought about it,
they've analyzed it and, andthen they go and they perform it
.
Then the director says, likeyou know, that's pretty cool, I
like that.
You know, why don't you trythis?
Or you know you kind of gotthat wrong.
Maybe we should do this a littlebit.
Or that's not what we'relooking for.
(27:28):
I'm looking for more like this.
And then the actor does anothertake and you know, for me as a
director, it's like the way theyreact to that is going to tell
me the whole story.
So, and the good actors willalter their read right on the
spot.
That gives me the confidencethat when I'm in a room or
online with, like you know, 25clients breathing down my neck,
the actor is going to be on myside and we're going to be able
to find this, because mydirection is one part of it, but
the client direction is a wholeother part of it, yes.
(27:50):
It's like you said.
You know I don't think hangingthe guy upside down is a good
idea, but you know what.
You guys did it because that'swhat the client wanted.
You're like okay, you know whatCan you do?
A handstand, yes, I can.
All right, I think I rememberArnie telling me that story.
Actually.
Dane Gorman (28:09):
Yeah, he's like.
I have seen it all now for sure.
It's definitely a challengethese days, because there's not
just the casting director,there's the agent, the talent,
the casting director, the personwho wrote it, the business
(28:29):
manager who's managing theirclient, the producer.
It's just all these people thatyou have to satisfy.
Chris Mchale (28:34):
Do you do callbacks?
I do yeah.
So how does that work?
How's the callback process work?
Dane Gorman (28:40):
Well, it depends on .
Some agencies want to do adirected callback, where the
creatives love the voice but theperformance isn't quite right
and they want to make sure thatthe talent can get where they
need them to be.
Sometimes it's they'll give menotes and then I'll do the call
(29:04):
back.
So it just depends and I would.
I had this wild idea and Idon't know, this might be
something I'm going toexperiment with in 2025, because
we have to keep changing ifwe're going to stay relevant in
this industry is I'm thinkingthat, you know, with everyone
having home studios most peopleif I let the agents know that
(29:31):
these are the people year fiveyear five year four year, three
year one that I think would beperfect for this commercial have
them call me before they laytheir audition down and then
we'll talk through it.
They can, they can record whilewe're on the phone and then
they can do a couple of takesand then I can say I liked one
(29:52):
in four, send that in as youraudition, and then I can tighten
up my auditions so that I'mreally sending.
Like back in the day, we usuallysent 20, 25.
Now I get people ask me for 50,60, 75, 100.
And it's like you know, it'shard to pick someone if you're
listening to 100 voices.
(30:12):
But I want to make people happy.
That's me.
I always try to please, so I'llgive you as many as you want,
or you know, I'll just, butsometimes it just sounds like
the same person doing it 50times.
But yeah, I mean, I think itwould be better if I could
perfect it as if I'm having anin-person casting session and
(30:34):
tighten it up so that there areless options, but there are 25
great options.
Chris Mchale (30:42):
Yeah, what you're saying makes sense, great
options.
Yeah, what you're saying makessense, and it just really points
out something that's kind ofobvious, which is that we all
just kind of drift.
There's like a digital drift.
It's like, oh, this is what'sgoing on.
Oh, I'm going to have a homestudio.
We can't do this.
But actually what we're lookingfor is a virtual studio,
because the process that we hadwas perfect.
(31:04):
You know, I mean as perfect asit could get.
It was an exact process and itproduced incredible creativity.
If that's your goal, you know,I I don't know if that's as much
of a goal as it used to be, butyou know it.
It it's like the you're justtalking.
You know you're you're talkingabout like something.
Like you know it's an, but it'snot really, it's a renovation.
(31:26):
It's like you're going back tothe way we did it before.
It's just a matter of using thetechnology differently.
I've got huge problems withpeople in their home studios.
Dane Gorman (31:35):
Okay, that is a huge problem for the studio on
the other end, where the agencyhas gone with their creatives in
their studio and then they'repatching in with the Voice in
Chicago.
They're in LA and the guy saysthat he has a broadcast quality
(31:56):
home studio and he doesn't.
So that's the problem.
Chris Mchale (32:02):
You know, people go to college and get degrees in
audio engineering Like my son.
Dane Gorman (32:10):
Hire him.
He'll help you set up a homestudio.
Chris Mchale (32:13):
Yeah, like what's his name, Shane.
Okay, I've probably had 30mixers working for me and the
good mixers were like gold.
You know gold?
I mean you mentioned ArnieRosen.
I had Tim Leitner at IrvingPlace.
(32:33):
I mean Henry Parati.
Dane Gorman (32:36):
Oh my God, henry is legendary.
Chris Mchale (32:39):
Brian Tarner.
Oh my goodness.
Dane Gorman (32:41):
Oh my gosh, give me a session with Brian Tarner any
day.
Yeah, he's my gosh, give me asession with Brian Tarner any
day.
Chris Mchale (32:45):
Yeah, he's still.
He's still out there, you know,still online doing stuff.
But I mean, like if BrianTarner tells you he's got a
professional studio at home, youbelieve him, you know.
But I think that there are alot of there's just a tremendous
amount of people that do notunderstand even the fundaments
of what a professional studioactually is.
(33:06):
Now, look, I have a studio, butyou know, I have an IT guy as
well that comes in here andkeeps my studio organized,
because I am not a technical guyand I'm actually pretty
educated, but I am not atechnical guy.
And I say that because whenyou're online doing some pro
(33:26):
voiceover work and some of thework you and I work on, there's
millions of dollars on the linehere for some of these projects
and you can't have a technicalglitch in the middle of it.
And the amazing thing is that,with the thousands of sessions
you've done, in the thousandsI've done, we can guarantee
people that you there will be atechnical glitch.
(33:48):
You know, even if you'reworking, even if you're working
at a, you're actually all in aroom and you're surrounded by
the top equipment and the bestengineers and everything you're
going to have a technical glitchand the thing that separates
the real studios from the lessthan real studios are how you
handle that technical glitch.
Because clients are going togive you five minutes.
(34:09):
You know they're not going tohave any, especially when
they're paying for something.
So you know, and that's atremendous amount of pressure on
talent, because you've got togo in front of a microphone,
you've got to perform, you'vegot to do the right voice,
you've got to do your thing.
And then it's like oh, now youhave to take off that hat and
put on a technical hat and crawlunderneath your desk and fix
(34:32):
what's going on.
Dane Gorman (34:33):
Well, and you got to pray that there's no
construction going on in yourneighborhood either.
Chris Mchale (34:37):
Well, that's like I mean OK, so like that's there
you go Like look, you got tohave a microphone in excess of
$1,000.
You've got to have a voiceboost.
That's going to cost you$15,000.
You've got to have some kind ofdigital interface that really
works.
That's going to cost you acouple of thousand dollars.
And you know you need micstands and pop filters and a
(34:59):
$1,000 pair of headphones, maybea $350.
Maybe you can cheap out on theheadphones, um, and that's all
going to be working perfectly,that's.
That's not even talking aboutthings like source connect and
that kind of stuff which getssort of headachy at certain
points well, you know what Istarted asking for.
Dane Gorman (35:16):
And I think this is important because I don't want
to just say to my client, yeah,they have a home studio with
SourceConnect and I always sayin a lot of my casting briefs
that I send out home studio withbroadcast quality, home studio
with SourceConnect.
But if they're say they've gotfive guys that they, like,
(35:40):
they're not sure who they'regoing to book, at that point I'm
going to start requestingthings and one of the things I'm
going to request, or send methe specs on your studio.
Yeah, I want to see that youknow what you have, and I want
to.
I don't want to just say, yeah,they have, you know, a cheap
mic and they have a littleportable pad or they're in there
, I mean in a closet, you know.
(36:05):
I mean I just I really want tosee specs wise what they have,
so that when I send that to myclient and they're sending it to
somebody at sound lounge orsome studio, the engineer can
see.
You know, and the engineers areall running tests before the set
, the day before the session.
A lot what we've started doingis the engineers are are calling
in and checking in with themand testing it, and then the
(36:28):
engineer is telling them well,this isn't good, you're going to
have to add this or you needthis or you need that.
And they have a day before thesession to go make the
improvements on their homestudio.
But it would be nice not tohave to go to that step.
It would be nice to say, yes,they have a broadcast quality
home studio.
Chris Mchale (36:46):
I don't see how you get a broadcast quality home
studio for under $35,000.
And that, by the way is cheap.
I mean when we built the studiosin New York.
We were a broadcast qualitystudio.
Broadcast quality studio.
I spent like $350,000, $400,000per studio.
You know I mean loaded floors,five foot thick walls.
(37:10):
It takes everything you got toreally get to that broadcast
level and I prefer just usingthose studios.
Anyway, to be honest with you,we get back to working on song
and space.
It's like we have to be.
You know, I've been in New Yorkseveral times looking for
studios.
I just actually was talking tosomebody today about a deal that
might get us a studio to recordthe voices and then some of the
(37:32):
work can be done, not in astudio in terms of the putting
the sessions together and maybeeven mixing, but recording.
To get a good recording, it'sthe simplest thing in the world.
You need a soundproof room witha really good microphone.
That's it.
Those are the only two thingsyou get.
You need To get that.
You're going to have to spendlike 20 grand.
(37:53):
I mean it's never going tohappen in a closet, you know.
Dane Gorman (37:56):
No well, a lot of agencies saw during COVID that
it was a cost saver becausepeople were starting to buy the
equipment so they could recordfrom home because no one was
going in person to sessionsduring COVID.
And you know studio costs.
Can you know for a radioproject that maybe not so much.
(38:17):
It's not an all day thing butdepending on what the project is
, the studio costs can add up.
And I think a lot of people, alot of their clients, saw the
savings and using people withhome studios.
But I think now we've gonefurther past COVID.
More and more agencies arewe're sending people into a
(38:42):
studio.
Chris Mchale (38:43):
You know, when I'm doing voiceover, I just really
want to stand up in front of amicrophone and read the copy and
have somebody say to me youknow what, that needs to be
quicker, it needs to be slower,it needs to be funnier, whatever
they want.
Dane Gorman (38:56):
Try it again upside down.
Chris Mchale (38:58):
Yeah, can you do a handstand?
When I get into a recordingstudio with a good Neumann in
front of me, I'm just like sorelaxed.
I'm like, okay, I can just bemyself.
I can just find thisperformance.
I don't have to worry aboutanything, I can just focus on
that.
I know the sound is going to begood.
Dane Gorman (39:14):
I know they're going to get what I do and it's
kind of like the feeling you getwhen you're dressed up and
you're wearing some nice clothesand you like the way you look
in them.
Is a voiceover actor.
You have to like the way yousound, you know you have to like
the way you sound.
Chris Mchale (39:28):
Yeah and uh.
You're an actor, you're acting,so you're not always going to
nail it.
You know you're gonna it's notgoing to happen, but at least it
will sound good.
And I don't think people I thinkpeople really underestimate
underestimate how much of whatsounds pro is is just the
technology.
You know it's like if you're ina real studio and you've got an
(39:52):
engineer, you got an assistantengineer, you got a producer,
you got a director, you gotgreat microphones, you got good
space and air, and it's it's.
It just elevates everythingabout your game, whether Whether
you're an excellent actor ornot.
You're going to be better inthat situation.
Dane Gorman (40:07):
There are a few of those, you know I'm not going to
name names.
There are some guys that havebeen around for a long time,
those announcer voiceover guysthat just get copy facts to them
and they just shoot it back tothe client.
You know and it's done.
You know that have these reallyamazing studios and they're,
(40:30):
you know it is available onlineto find them and what they ask
you, what's required of you topurchase, you know.
But if you're going to start inthe voiceover industry, you got
, it's going to be an investment.
You're going to start in thevoiceover industry.
It's going to be an investment.
You're going to have to investsome money.
Chris Mchale (40:48):
Yeah, I know some voice talent that have
incredible studios and they'vemade the investment and, yeah,
they can sit in their studio bythe lake out in New York.
Dane Gorman (40:57):
Yeah, in their pajamas with a cup of coffee.
Chris Mchale (41:01):
Even back in the 90s I knew people that were
doing that.
They would spend like $100,000,which I think is really the
number.
You know I don't mean to shockpeople listening to this, but I
actually think that's areasonable number to me to put
together a pro-level studio.
And you know that moneyincludes like hiring guys to set
it up for you and to maintainit to a certain degree.
(41:22):
I think once you get it set upand it's rocking, yeah, you
could go in there and do yourthing, you could also rent it
out to other voiceover people inyour area because you know, and
make some money back on it.
Dane Gorman (41:36):
I know a lot of actors who like say they're in
Huntington West Virginia just tothrow out a place.
But you know, when you'relooking for a studio in
Huntington West Virginia just tothrow out of place, but when
you're looking for a studio inHuntington West Virginia to send
an actor who doesn't have ahome studio, the agent will go,
oh, but so-and-so, has a reallygood professional home studio
(41:56):
and he rents it out and it's not$200 an hour.
I think he only charges $50 anhour.
He gives the voiceover discount.
So you could be that guy inyour region that has the
broadcast quality home studiothat you spend a hundred
thousand dollars on.
Chris Mchale (42:11):
But you can make some of your money back because
you can help your fellowvoiceover people I went to a
studio in new york city, justlike in the last two or three
months, uh on like in the 30sand like just off of Fifth
Avenue, and it was just a 10,000square foot floor with 10 vocal
(42:33):
booths and 10 Pro Tools systemsand 10 Neumann microphones.
Dane Gorman (42:36):
And you could rent it.
That's a very smart person whodid that.
Chris Mchale (42:39):
You could rent it for $50 an hour.
That's amazing.
It really is where I end upwhen we talk about this stuff.
You've got to get a studio.
That's really a conversationfor the clients, not the talent.
You've got to get a studio.
There are studios all over thisworld that will rent you a
studio and I've done a lot ofshows in $100-an-hour studios
(43:00):
and it's fine.
It's just a matter of gettingthat initial recording in front
of a good microphone in a goodbooth.
That's it.
Once I have that, we can runthat football down the field.
I did a voiceover classrecently.
I was invited to do a voiceoverclass with Everett Oliver.
Dane Gorman (43:18):
Yeah, Everett yeah.
Chris Mchale (43:19):
Yeah, you hooked me up with him and he's a great
guy and it was reallyfascinating to me.
But the most fascinating partto me were the questions I was
asked after, and there's a lotof people out there that are
getting a lot of the wrong ideas.
I started doing pro work.
I was like an assistant radioproducer at an advertising
(43:41):
agency.
Assistant radio producer at anadvertising agency.
I wasn't allowed near any kindof responsibility till I had
done like a lot of sessions andkind of proved myself.
I spent a lot of time sittingin the studio with senior
producers, incredible radiotalent and voice talent and
sitting in the back room andsomebody like Arnie Rosen at the
board and you learned.
I mean you learned.
Dane Gorman (44:02):
Arnie taught yeah you learned.
I learned.
Barney taught me everything Iknow about radio production.
That's where I learned, and Ilearned because I went there for
every radio job I had and I gotbetter and better and better
the longer I was there workingbeside him and I, you know, I
had the confidence to go outthen on my own and like I can do
(44:23):
this, you know.
But I feel sad, I feel bad forthe voiceover actor today
because it is oversaturated.
There's so many people tryingto get into voiceovers because
somebody's told them oh, it's soeasy and you can work from your
home.
And some people are going torise to the top because they
(44:46):
have this unique voice orthey're really a good actor and
their natural abilities come out.
But not everybody should be avoiceover actor.
Chris Mchale (44:57):
Yeah, it's a talent.
You know, a talent is a wholediscussion in itself.
You know this voiceover class Idid with Everett.
There were like a couple ofpeople in there that really had
chops and they really stood out.
It's a hard thing to definewhat it is, and especially when
you talk about things likecommercial acting, because
commercial acting is really theability to sound like yourself
(45:19):
and so that when people listento you you're not just trying to
sell a product.
Dane Gorman (45:26):
Yeah, you're believable.
You're trustworthy because yousound like their next-door
neighbor.
Chris Mchale (45:32):
Yeah, you sound like the guy next door.
Dane Gorman (45:34):
You know what's impressive about that class that
you taught?
You were telling me there werea couple of guys there that have
really good chops.
Those guys are constant.
I know those guys.
They're constantly working attheir craft.
Chris Mchale (45:47):
Yeah, constantly there's no magic here.
If you decide you want to be avoiceover, you know, first of
all call me.
Dane Gorman (45:54):
You know, and I'll try to talk you out of it I
think that, um, it's, it's.
Chris Mchale (45:59):
You need to work it.
Look, I've been.
I, I'm a guy who startedworking when I was 14 years old.
I started doing films and stuffand then I started singing
jingles in studios.
By the time I was 16, 17, I wasworking full-time doing stuff.
And it's a lot of years laternow and it's a lot of years
(46:23):
later now and I still spendhours every day working on my
craft.
Whatever I'm looking at, I don'tdo as much voiceover as I used
to.
But if I'm going to dovoiceover, I have a whole
process.
I go through with warming upand doing tongue twisters and
all sorts of stuff to get myvoice loose.
(46:44):
And you know, when an actorwalks into, gets on mic, I'm
expecting that they've alreadydone like two hours worth of
work to get their voice ready.
And I know that every actor Iworked with in New York that's
the way they started out theirday.
They would do 60 minutes ofexercise with their voice Did a
lot of work actually with JamesEarl Jones, that guy it's a
(47:05):
cliche to say it, but that guycould read a phone book and he'd
be like, wow, that's the bestphone book I've ever heard.
Luke, I'm your father.
See, that's me proving I am notJames Earl Jones.
That's me proving I am notJames Earl Jones.
Working with him was really oneof the highlights of my career,
(47:29):
no doubt about that Sweetheartof a guy.
Okay, so we didn't actually getto say goodbye to Dane, because
I am a technical, incompetentperson, so I just thought I'd
call her up and say, dane, thankyou so much for coming on to
(47:49):
this podcast.
It was a really greatdiscussion.
Dane Gorman (47:53):
I really enjoyed it .
Thank you, chris.
I thought it was something thatmade me think a little bit more
than I normally would have beenthinking about the topic, and I
look forward to having morediscussions with you in the
future.
Chris Mchale (48:08):
Oh yeah, definitely, and hopefully, when
you hear this one, you don't golike, hey, wait a minute, no,
you sound great, you sound greatand I'll get this to you as
soon as I can.
So thanks again, and we'll talksoon.
Dane Gorman (48:20):
It's been my pleasure, thank you.
Chris Mchale (48:28):
I wanted to thank Dane for coming on.
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(48:48):
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(49:10):
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Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to Creativity Jijijii.
It's time to get your Jijiji on.
On this podcast we talk aboutall things to do with creativity
, the flex and the flow ofbusiness, the art and the
practice of being an artist,being a working artist.
(00:29):
So if you're a composer, awriter, an actor, a voiceover, a
producer, if you do soundtracksfor advertising or video games
or whatever you get up to, if ithas to do with sound and
soundtracks and producingvoiceover performances,
(00:49):
directing, writing audio dramas,whatever you get up to, if
you're interested to any of thatstuff, you are going to want to
listen to this podcast.
We have a lot of reallyinteresting things going on.
My name is Chris McHale.
We've been here, I've been inthis business a long time and
I've pretty much covered everybase there is to cover in this
(01:11):
business and I want to share itall with you.
I just want to share the stuffand share the people I know, and
we're going to start today witha great guest and we're going
to talk about something thatdoesn't get talked about a lot,
but what is actually a criticalpiece of the process of putting
(01:35):
together great, award-winningwork, and that is casting,
casting, finding the right voice.
It's where you start, and we'lltalk about all that.
And to talk about all that,we're bringing in Dane Gorman,
(01:56):
and Dane is a front-rank castingdirector.
She's out there, she's working.
She's working at it every day.
She's out there, she's working,she's working at it every day.
She's like me.
She's worked through thetransitions from what the
business was before to what thebusiness is now, and we're both
(02:19):
still out here pounding away atit, and we want to share some
insights into this beautiful,arcane and essential part of our
work casting casting for voices.
So let's get right to it.
(02:43):
Dane Gorman is the founder andCEO of Speaks Casting.
Dane say hello, hello, hello.
I'm so happy you joined me.
Dane and I have been working ona project called Song in Space,
which has been an epic projectand it's just fabulous, and she
(03:03):
worked very hard to get thesevoices together and the cast.
I think it's like, in total,when you look at all eight
episodes, it's going to be over20 voices, but there's a core
seven or eight voices that arejust fantastic.
I mean it's really, reallyincredible.
When it comes to a storytellingas complicated or complex and
(03:28):
nuanced as Song in Space, I meanjust no way, no way, no way,
just no way.
You can use anybody butincredible voice actors to
really communicate a story likethis.
Tell us a story like this.
Dane Gorman (03:44):
Well, the longer we've gone working on Song in
Space and actually doing some ofthe recording for episode one,
now, when I hear the actors'voices when they're auditioning
for me for something else, all Ican hear is their character in
Song in Space, because they havebecome the character and it's
(04:06):
so good.
Chris Mchale (04:08):
Oh, that's incredible.
I know what you mean.
We did Song in Space by justcasting it first, and we cast
the first episode and then I hadto slog through for about nine
months writing the other eightepisodes.
As I was writing, the charactervoices were there.
It became easier and easierbecause I knew exactly what the
characters sounded like.
So you know, if you're going todo a big audio drama, I suggest
(04:30):
you get your voices first.
That's my recommendation, and Ialso suggest you call Dane
because she's really a genius atthis stuff.
I'm so touched.
We actually go back a long way.
I mean, what would you say?
How many years?
Or you don't want to say howmany years generally?
Let's keep it young yeah allthe way back to like 2016.
I think we've been in thisbusiness a long time and we both
(04:55):
have had a lot of success inthis business and we have both
worked with some of theoutstanding-the-line audio
content creatives.
My company, mchale Barone, wasa big audio content company in
New York, and, dane, give us alittle bit of your background
(05:18):
real quick.
Dane Gorman (05:20):
Well, the reason I became a casting director was
because I was an in-houseadvertising agency music
producer at Young Rubicam a longwhile ago and the music
producers actually produced theaudio for the radio spots.
(05:43):
And a lot of people in mydepartment didn't like the radio
and I was like I love radio.
I mean, we had so much fun in asession with some of the best
engineers, like Arnie Rosen andsome amazing people, and I said
I'll do the radio, I'll do themusic too, but I'll do the radio
(06:05):
.
Bring it on.
And from there, bart Radiohired me to be an executive
producer for his company out inSeattle, washington, and I did
that for several years.
But while I was there, we weregetting casting in from other
casting directors and I kept.
I'm not really happy with thiscasting, I really think we could
(06:27):
do it better and I ended updoing the casting at BART Radio
and then, when I left BART, Idecided to reinvent myself as a
casting director in 2009.
And I haven't regretted aminute of it.
Chris Mchale (06:40):
So Well, I think you're incredible.
You know, I owned a castingcompany of one kind and I wish
you had worked with me because Ireally like it.
We've had we've had some greatcasting directors, but I've
always liked casting directors,um, who listen and sort of get
the creative aspect of this andit's everything to me as a a
(07:01):
writer you know, I also playguitar and a composer, and the
voices are just like myinstrument as a creative.
They add to it.
I get a real rush when I hearvoices and I start working with
them and it's really magic.
We're not only talking aboutradio, I mean.
We're talking about advertising, television, film animation
(07:24):
yeah, video games.
I mean it's a big, vibrantfield that is under a lot of
stress right now.
Dane Gorman (07:35):
Can I tell one funny story really fast?
And then we can go back.
We can talk about the futureand the state of things today,
the future and the state ofthings today.
But I was working back this isa long time ago at a session
where the writer it was for softdrink I'm not going to name the
product and the creative reallywanted the person to sound like
(07:59):
they were upside down drinkingsome soft drink and talking at
the same time.
Oh wow, down drinking some softdrink and talking at the same
time, oh wow.
And so we're like, okay, wewill just record the voice and
then we'll play around with itand we'll try to add things to
it and maybe you know the, youknow the slogging of the drink,
and we'll we'll make it work inpost.
(08:19):
We don't have to get, you know,the actor too, involved with
this, but the creative and herassistant were adamant that this
be real.
And she wanted us to turn thetalent upside down and have them
record speaking upside down, soI digress, but anyway, that was
(08:43):
a real fun one.
Chris Mchale (08:46):
Yeah, you just had to go to Barnum and Bailey
Circus.
I'm sure there would have beenactors there that would have
loved to do it.
You know there's, there'sactually it's.
That's a funny story, but youknow, I I do understand where
the writer was coming from alittle bit.
I remember we did a spot uhthat was, I think it was like a
Halloween spot or something, andthe actor was supposed to be
bobbing for apples.
So so you know, we did it.
(09:07):
We got a big bucket, we gotsome apples.
Joe barone went into the studiooh, I'm not lying.
Dane Gorman (09:12):
We did let the actor agreed to go upside down
and oh, you're saying the actordid go upside, oh yeah no, I am
saying we actually.
I mean, I tried to prevent itfrom happening, but the actor
was like you know, that's thethe thing about a voice actor,
they'll give it their all.
And they were like if that'swhat she wants, I can try it.
And I remember arnie going no,no, no, I don't think we need to
(09:32):
try it.
And the actors she's like yes,we need to try it.
Her name, I'm not gonna say hername anyway.
Chris Mchale (09:37):
So wait a minute, were you like in super dupe with
arnie's?
Dane Gorman (09:40):
yeah, we were in super dupe and we we turned the
actor.
He said I can stand on my handsagainst the wall.
We put the mic down there andwe actually did it.
Chris Mchale (09:51):
The guy was like a yoga master.
Dane Gorman (09:52):
He was like it was incredible, and later, after
everybody left, we AB'd whatArnie had done in post and then
the upside down voice and therereally wasn't any difference.
Chris Mchale (10:05):
but yeah, I would imagine there's, especially with
a trained actor.
I would imagine yeah, yeah,that's.
That's great, though I hope youtook a picture of that really I
didn't.
Dane Gorman (10:15):
I would only only picture I have is sitting on
george c scott's lap from supertube.
Chris Mchale (10:21):
I don't know why I kept that one, you know the
thing that's driving me crazyright now more than anything, is
the pace of change.
It's like I got into thisbusiness and it was very stable.
You kind of learned, you knowthe techniques and the roots and
you, you built your network.
Dane Gorman (10:42):
Well, you know we did go through.
I think one of the most thebiggest changes in the industry
for casting was I can't eventell you how many years ago when
the first pay-to-play sitescame.
So all you know, actors werepaying their fees and putting
their voice and resume on thesepay-to-play sites and a lot of
(11:05):
producers and agencies andcreatives stopped going to
casting directors.
It's not like all the businesswas gone, but they went to the
pay-to-play sites to find theircasting and what was cool and
what I think might happen withAI as well didn't quite work to
(11:26):
perfection.
Maybe if you had a low budgetand you couldn't afford a
casting director, you'd go thatroute, but all the business
ended up coming back to thecasting directors because the
producer and the creatives don'thave time to listen to 200
voices.
Chris Mchale (11:41):
Yeah, it's like I know, in the old days, when we
were in the city, when you, whenwe were in the city, when I was
a young guy in the city, youknow, to make some money I
joined central casting you know,and you would just, you
literally would sit in a roomdown there all day reading
newspapers and reading books and, um, you know, and, and
somebody would look out thewindow and say, hey, you come up
here and they would give you alittle card and you go, you do
(12:03):
the job.
There were like be 100, 150people in the room and you're
just kind of waiting, you know,and I think that that's that's
what you're talking about.
Like you go to one of thesepaid places and you're, you know
, there's three, 400, maybe 500auditions.
So it's, it's really crazy.
As a producer, it's, I don'tknow.
I have not had too much success.
I hired one voiceover when Iwas in a jam, but yeah, no, you
(12:28):
need.
I'm really a big fan of castingdirectors.
Dane Gorman (12:33):
It's not even the casting directors, it's just the
whole process of collaborationI think is so important in
creativity well and I think whatyou know a lot of times
producers are overwhelmed andtheir turnaround times have
changed drastically becausetechnology has gotten so good,
(12:54):
so used to you have a week topull in some voices and really
work at it, but now theturnaround times sometimes are
the same day.
I need, I need a guy thatsounds like you know, uh, action
figure, hero, dude, uh, deepvoice, villainous, and I need it
(13:14):
in five hours, and so you'relike that's why they call you
basically right, so that that Imean, that's the thing that's
changed.
The most is the timeline.
So I have to really hone in onmy craft as, as and keep a
database of who I really lovevocally.
(13:35):
Sometimes I like to open it upbecause there are tons of new
people out there and I lovegiving new people a chance, and
you never know, you're going todiscover this next great voice
that everybody wants to use ifyou don't open it up.
But if you, you know, sometimeswhen you're in a hurry you have
to go to the pool of peoplethat you absolutely know can
pull this off and hopefullythey're at home waiting at their
(13:58):
very high quality home studioso that they can turn this
around for you really quickly.
Chris Mchale (14:04):
Oh man, I'm going to get into a little bit of that
later on, I think.
But I think that you saidsomething in passing that has
really always been true, whichis that new voices really are
gold.
There's just nothing morepowerful.
And we've seen it, you know.
We've seen like somebody comeonto the New York advertising
scene and just take off like arocket ship.
I have witnessed the launch ofsome pretty famous people that
(14:28):
way.
Jim Gaffigan was a guy who Ithink he was working at a as an
account exec, I think at anagency, you know.
Next thing, you know he's likeone of the top voiceover guys.
Dane Gorman (14:41):
It's like Lee Ed Schreiber, I think.
He was a bike messenger and heused to bike in and you know we
would book him because we justheard something so great in his
voice, you know, and he becamethe voice of a certain client
and he would ride his bicyclefrom Brooklyn all the way into
Manhattan to record, come in allsweaty, but he was amazing, he
(15:03):
was amazing and he still is.
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah,probably.
Yes, he does less voiceoverwork.
Yeah.
Chris Mchale (15:09):
I don't think he's doing.
Part of the business is doesn'tfunction the same way.
I don't think, you know, wewere kind of all contained.
It was like the entirevoiceover industry was either in
New York City or in LA, youknow, and that was it.
That was kind of it.
You had to kind of make yourchoice as a creative, as an
(15:31):
artist, as an actor, one ofthose two cities.
Dane Gorman (15:34):
Well, there were differences in the cities.
There were differences in thecities, like you went to New
York for your you know, youractor, your narrator, maybe your
documentary film voice and yourcommercial voices, and you went
to LA for some commercialvoices, but you also went there
for animation and cartoons.
I mean, that's kind of what thedifferences were, but now there
(15:56):
are no differences.
Chris Mchale (15:58):
Yeah, there are no differences, and I think
there's a lot of disadvantageswith that.
There's no differences.
Yeah, there are no differences,and I think there's a lot of
disadvantages with that, there'sno doubt, but I'm getting used
to it.
Dane Gorman (16:07):
Well, and now there's more cities to pull from
.
Chris Mchale (16:08):
Yeah, I mean, you're sitting in Nashville.
Dane Gorman (16:10):
Yeah, I'm in Nashville.
I get a lot of great voicesfrom where you are in Chicago.
Chris Mchale (16:14):
Yeah, I'm in Chicago.
Dane Gorman (16:15):
I find great voices in Austin, Texas, Atlanta,
Georgia.
I have a great couple of actorsthat I work with out of New
Mexico.
So because we've gone remoteand everybody's getting their
home studios, we don't go intoan actual casting session
(16:37):
anymore, which does open it wideup to find a unique voice.
I do miss those days where wehad a casting session and you
brought in your 20, 25 peoplethat you thought were amazing or
maybe the agent would throw anew person in, and then they
came to you and you directedthem through the audition and
(17:00):
then you tightened it up and yousent it to you know the
creatives, and it was Look, wewon a lot of awards in that
company in New York.
Chris Mchale (17:09):
It all began with the casting because I would you
know the casting directors.
If we got busy, the castingdirectors would do their thing
and we had some great castingdirectors over the years.
But as a director I wanted todo the casting as much as
possible, at least part of it.
I mean, if it's going to be a60 voice session, it was hard to
get in there, but I would go infor direction.
It would really help me, youknow, refine the script, find
(17:34):
out what, what we really arelooking for.
It was a process and we'vetaken a lot of that process out
and it's been difficult toreplace honestly.
Dane Gorman (17:42):
And who knows better?
Like you?
Being the director at yourcompany and the creative, you
know exactly what it is you'relooking for.
Yeah, you know as a castingdirector, I've got to interpret
what you're looking for and thenI give it to an actor and then
they're interpreting what Iinterpreted, what you said you
(18:04):
wanted.
So, the cutting to the chasesometimes is amazing, and I do
know a few advertising agenciesthat would love to get back to
that.
Chris Mchale (18:15):
Well in this marketplace, if you want to be
competitive, that should be partof your process.
That's the way I feel about it.
I don't care what anybody says.
You know, process is reallyimportant to creativity and
creativity is a competitive edge.
So it doesn't surprise me tohear that agencies and people
like that are, you know,stepping back a little bit.
(18:35):
There were some other aspectsof that process that were sort
of fascinating to me.
Stepping back a little bit,there was some other aspects of
that process that was sort offascinating to me, like, for
instance, basically the rule ofthumb was an actor would go into
a booth and he'd read thescript twice.
He'd read it once and then you'dgive them some direction, then
he'd read it a second time andthen they were out.
You know, it was like thanks.
And then we had this magicalthing we call a callback, which
(18:59):
is like, you know, we would addthe, let's say, 50 actors we
auditioned, we bring back two orthree and just kind of like,
really, you know, drill down onit until we found exactly what
we were looking for.
And, you know, sometimes wethrow in some wild cards.
You know, if we hadn't heard,it was just by the time we got
out of the casting session I washalfway there as to how I was
(19:20):
going to direct these spots.
You know, I kind of knew whatwe were looking for.
I could start hearing it, startgetting it in your ears, and
all of that began with casting.
There's no doubt about it.
Dane Gorman (19:30):
Well, and you know, a lot of times because we've
been doing this for so long,there are a lot of young
creatives and young producersand they're they're learning,
you know, and they're they'realso miles ahead of me with some
of the technology and stuffbecause it comes so easy for
(19:50):
them, but they're learning.
The process still works the waywe were kind of doing it, and I
think what if I could give anactor any advice, as they're
growing and learning thisindustry not people who are
(20:10):
already doing it is makeyourself versatile.
You know, really, really, takeacting classes.
Don't take a voiceover class.
If you want to take a voiceoverclass, take a voiceover class
that teaches you about theindustry, but not how to
interpret or read a script,because a lot of times I'll get
(20:32):
auditions back and they've allgone to the same voiceover
acting class and so theyemphasize every word the same,
the cadences are all the sameand nothing sets them apart.
So I would just say hone yourcraft and become versatile.
Take an improv class.
(20:52):
Take acting class.
You know, do some theater.
Just, you know, give.
Give yourself the opportunityto show the creatives and the
casting directors that you cantake direction and you can
change your approach instantlyif they're not happy with it.
(21:13):
And sometimes that's lost onpeople.
That's sometimes that's lost onpeople.
Sometimes, I think, when peoplesee the casting specs, they get
in a hurry just to throw theaudition back and it's like they
didn't even read the specs.
Chris Mchale (21:30):
If I feel like I'm working with an actor who can
take direction, then I feel likeI'm going to be able to get a
performance that is going tomake my clients happy.
Dane Gorman (21:38):
Basically, it just comes down to that.
Chris Mchale (21:40):
I'm assuming that anybody who steps up to a
microphone and auditions is, youknow, ready to do some basic
sort of stuff, which is not thecase.
But I assume I, you know youand I both work in pro with pros
a lot, so we're kind of used tothat.
You know they come in withtheir voices warmed up and they
come in with a bottle of waterand they come up, you know,
(22:00):
ready to rock and, more thananything, they take direction
and I've never studied acting,so I don't.
I do have a son who's an actress, but uh, that is, that is a
magical ability and you can spotit almost instantly.
So I mean, I think that you andI work together and and I've
probably asked you that verysame question I'll hear voice, I
like.
And the next question out of mymouth is like, can they take
(22:21):
direction?
And I'm totally reliant on thecasting director for that answer
.
Dane Gorman (22:27):
Well, and I feel bad for actors these days who
want to make a living invoiceover, because unfortunately
, the and I'm not sure wherethis all breaks down or how it
can be corrected but they wantto hear the audition be perfect,
(22:50):
as if they could just take itand plop it right into the spot,
mix it and finish it, eventhough they're going to have a
recording session.
They don't want to send voicesto their clients unless it's
exactly what is going to be thefinished product, and we didn't
do it that way.
We loved someone because weloved their voice and we knew
(23:11):
they had the and, you know,maybe give them some direction,
maybe it lasted only a half anhour, you know, and everybody
was happy, but now they expectthe audition to sound like the
final product, and that's justnot fair.
Yeah, no, I think a lot of thatis the managing of the client,
(23:36):
because that's what could happenwhen they're presenting the
voice saying this is the voicewe like the voice, because
that's that's what could happenin when they're presenting the
voice saying this is the voicewe like the voice because of
this.
But when we go into the session, we're going to direct them and
get the exact performance thatwe're looking for, and we can't
do it that way anymore becausenobody's you know managing their
client the way that I wouldhope that they would, so we have
(23:58):
to.
We have to have a voice that'salmost finished.
That's why the actor needs totake more time when they're
looking at the spec and try todeliver it the best they can.
Chris Mchale (24:09):
Beautiful thing about McHale-Burone was we did
hundreds of spots a year, so wewere able to really hone our
chops with how to get this done.
You know, I mean, I, I mean weprobably did.
Somebody told me once we did30,000 spots.
I don't know if that's true ornot, but you know, um, but I, I
can believe it.
We had two or three directorsat any one time.
(24:31):
We know we had six recordingstudios.
So we were, we were rockingaround the clock.
I don't think we set out to makea process, but as a producer I
knew that I was going to getwhat I needed in like eight,
nine takes.
And if the session went to liketake 15, there was something
really wrong, like the wrong guy.
(24:51):
Yeah, the magic take would bethree, four, five, you know,
maybe six Somewhere in thosefour takes.
It would be like magic.
And then it was like just mopup, you know, maybe pick up a
couple of wild lines or, youknow, do some different stuff.
But it was, you know, and wedid spot after spot after spot,
and it was always the same.
So that led me to conclude that, you know, the best
(25:14):
performances were going to bethe early performances.
And that leads me to say toactors when you're doing home
recordings, you know, study thescript, mark it up, get it in
your mouth, rehearse it,practice it.
Then open your mic and read ittwo times and send it off.
You know, I really think you'regoing to stand a better chance
of booking a job if you do that.
(25:34):
If you start editing it andgoing in and replacing this
phrase and trying to get this,you're going to drive yourself
crazy.
I've done that.
You know.
You can spend all day recordinga 30-second script.
I mean, you're on the wrongpath.
I really believe that what youwant is a performance, you know,
and just like any performance,you need to rehearse that and
(25:56):
then it's go time.
The curtain goes up, read thescript, you know, step back a
little bit, take a breath, takesome water, step up the script.
Dane Gorman (26:06):
You know, step back a little bit, take a breath,
take some water, sip up, do asecond read.
Well, a lot of actors are onlygiving, they're only sending in
one.
Take you know they only send inone take, but they, they, they
slave over it yeah, they do, butI mean, I wish, I wish, my, I
would love to hear them.
Do that first, take the way youknow, know, like you said
originally, like in an audition,live audition.
(26:27):
Do that.
Take the way they interpret thescript.
And do a second take the waythat the specs are telling you
to interpret the script and thatway you are already showing in
your audition that you have somerange.
Chris Mchale (26:38):
This is where the process is a little awkward.
This is where the process is alittle awkward and I think why
agencies are backing up intolive auditions, because really
you need a director in betweenthose two takes yes, marked up.
(26:59):
But you know, the best actorscome in with those scripts
marked up there that you knowthey've really thought about it,
they've analyzed it and, andthen they go and they perform it
.
Then the director says, likeyou know, that's pretty cool, I
like that.
You know, why don't you trythis?
Or you know you kind of gotthat wrong.
Maybe we should do this a littlebit.
Or that's not what we'relooking for.
(27:28):
I'm looking for more like this.
And then the actor does anothertake and you know, for me as a
director, it's like the way theyreact to that is going to tell
me the whole story.
So, and the good actors willalter their read right on the
spot.
That gives me the confidencethat when I'm in a room or
online with, like you know, 25clients breathing down my neck,
the actor is going to be on myside and we're going to be able
to find this, because mydirection is one part of it, but
the client direction is a wholeother part of it, yes.
(27:50):
It's like you said.
You know I don't think hangingthe guy upside down is a good
idea, but you know what.
You guys did it because that'swhat the client wanted.
You're like okay, you know whatCan you do?
A handstand, yes, I can.
All right, I think I rememberArnie telling me that story.
Actually.
Dane Gorman (28:09):
Yeah, he's like.
I have seen it all now for sure.
It's definitely a challengethese days, because there's not
just the casting director,there's the agent, the talent,
the casting director, the personwho wrote it, the business
(28:29):
manager who's managing theirclient, the producer.
It's just all these people thatyou have to satisfy.
Chris Mchale (28:34):
Do you do callbacks?
I do yeah.
So how does that work?
How's the callback process work?
Dane Gorman (28:40):
Well, it depends on .
Some agencies want to do adirected callback, where the
creatives love the voice but theperformance isn't quite right
and they want to make sure thatthe talent can get where they
need them to be.
Sometimes it's they'll give menotes and then I'll do the call
(29:04):
back.
So it just depends and I would.
I had this wild idea and Idon't know, this might be
something I'm going toexperiment with in 2025, because
we have to keep changing ifwe're going to stay relevant in
this industry is I'm thinkingthat, you know, with everyone
having home studios most peopleif I let the agents know that
(29:31):
these are the people year fiveyear five year four year, three
year one that I think would beperfect for this commercial have
them call me before they laytheir audition down and then
we'll talk through it.
They can, they can record whilewe're on the phone and then
they can do a couple of takesand then I can say I liked one
(29:52):
in four, send that in as youraudition, and then I can tighten
up my auditions so that I'mreally sending.
Like back in the day, we usuallysent 20, 25.
Now I get people ask me for 50,60, 75, 100.
And it's like you know, it'shard to pick someone if you're
listening to 100 voices.
(30:12):
But I want to make people happy.
That's me.
I always try to please, so I'llgive you as many as you want,
or you know, I'll just, butsometimes it just sounds like
the same person doing it 50times.
But yeah, I mean, I think itwould be better if I could
perfect it as if I'm having anin-person casting session and
(30:34):
tighten it up so that there areless options, but there are 25
great options.
Chris Mchale (30:42):
Yeah, what you're saying makes sense, great
options.
Yeah, what you're saying makessense, and it just really points
out something that's kind ofobvious, which is that we all
just kind of drift.
There's like a digital drift.
It's like, oh, this is what'sgoing on.
Oh, I'm going to have a homestudio.
We can't do this.
But actually what we're lookingfor is a virtual studio,
because the process that we hadwas perfect.
(31:04):
You know, I mean as perfect asit could get.
It was an exact process and itproduced incredible creativity.
If that's your goal, you know,I I don't know if that's as much
of a goal as it used to be, butyou know it.
It it's like the you're justtalking.
You know you're you're talkingabout like something.
Like you know it's an, but it'snot really, it's a renovation.
(31:26):
It's like you're going back tothe way we did it before.
It's just a matter of using thetechnology differently.
I've got huge problems withpeople in their home studios.
Dane Gorman (31:35):
Okay, that is a huge problem for the studio on
the other end, where the agencyhas gone with their creatives in
their studio and then they'repatching in with the Voice in
Chicago.
They're in LA and the guy saysthat he has a broadcast quality
(31:56):
home studio and he doesn't.
So that's the problem.
Chris Mchale (32:02):
You know, people go to college and get degrees in
audio engineering Like my son.
Dane Gorman (32:10):
Hire him.
He'll help you set up a homestudio.
Chris Mchale (32:13):
Yeah, like what's his name, Shane.
Okay, I've probably had 30mixers working for me and the
good mixers were like gold.
You know gold?
I mean you mentioned ArnieRosen.
I had Tim Leitner at IrvingPlace.
(32:33):
I mean Henry Parati.
Dane Gorman (32:36):
Oh my God, henry is legendary.
Chris Mchale (32:39):
Brian Tarner.
Oh my goodness.
Dane Gorman (32:41):
Oh my gosh, give me a session with Brian Tarner any
day.
Yeah, he's my gosh, give me asession with Brian Tarner any
day.
Chris Mchale (32:45):
Yeah, he's still.
He's still out there, you know,still online doing stuff.
But I mean, like if BrianTarner tells you he's got a
professional studio at home, youbelieve him, you know.
But I think that there are alot of there's just a tremendous
amount of people that do notunderstand even the fundaments
of what a professional studioactually is.
(33:06):
Now, look, I have a studio, butyou know, I have an IT guy as
well that comes in here andkeeps my studio organized,
because I am not a technical guyand I'm actually pretty
educated, but I am not atechnical guy.
And I say that because whenyou're online doing some pro
(33:26):
voiceover work and some of thework you and I work on, there's
millions of dollars on the linehere for some of these projects
and you can't have a technicalglitch in the middle of it.
And the amazing thing is that,with the thousands of sessions
you've done, in the thousandsI've done, we can guarantee
people that you there will be atechnical glitch.
(33:48):
You know, even if you'reworking, even if you're working
at a, you're actually all in aroom and you're surrounded by
the top equipment and the bestengineers and everything you're
going to have a technical glitchand the thing that separates
the real studios from the lessthan real studios are how you
handle that technical glitch.
Because clients are going togive you five minutes.
(34:09):
You know they're not going tohave any, especially when
they're paying for something.
So you know, and that's atremendous amount of pressure on
talent, because you've got togo in front of a microphone,
you've got to perform, you'vegot to do the right voice,
you've got to do your thing.
And then it's like oh, now youhave to take off that hat and
put on a technical hat and crawlunderneath your desk and fix
(34:32):
what's going on.
Dane Gorman (34:33):
Well, and you got to pray that there's no
construction going on in yourneighborhood either.
Chris Mchale (34:37):
Well, that's like I mean OK, so like that's there
you go Like look, you got tohave a microphone in excess of
$1,000.
You've got to have a voiceboost.
That's going to cost you$15,000.
You've got to have some kind ofdigital interface that really
works.
That's going to cost you acouple of thousand dollars.
And you know you need micstands and pop filters and a
(34:59):
$1,000 pair of headphones, maybea $350.
Maybe you can cheap out on theheadphones, um, and that's all
going to be working perfectly,that's.
That's not even talking aboutthings like source connect and
that kind of stuff which getssort of headachy at certain
points well, you know what Istarted asking for.
Dane Gorman (35:16):
And I think this is important because I don't want
to just say to my client, yeah,they have a home studio with
SourceConnect and I always sayin a lot of my casting briefs
that I send out home studio withbroadcast quality, home studio
with SourceConnect.
But if they're say they've gotfive guys that they, like,
(35:40):
they're not sure who they'regoing to book, at that point I'm
going to start requestingthings and one of the things I'm
going to request, or send methe specs on your studio.
Yeah, I want to see that youknow what you have, and I want
to.
I don't want to just say, yeah,they have, you know, a cheap
mic and they have a littleportable pad or they're in there
, I mean in a closet, you know.
(36:05):
I mean I just I really want tosee specs wise what they have,
so that when I send that to myclient and they're sending it to
somebody at sound lounge orsome studio, the engineer can
see.
You know, and the engineers areall running tests before the set
, the day before the session.
A lot what we've started doingis the engineers are are calling
in and checking in with themand testing it, and then the
(36:28):
engineer is telling them well,this isn't good, you're going to
have to add this or you needthis or you need that.
And they have a day before thesession to go make the
improvements on their homestudio.
But it would be nice not tohave to go to that step.
It would be nice to say, yes,they have a broadcast quality
home studio.
Chris Mchale (36:46):
I don't see how you get a broadcast quality home
studio for under $35,000.
And that, by the way is cheap.
I mean when we built the studiosin New York.
We were a broadcast qualitystudio.
Broadcast quality studio.
I spent like $350,000, $400,000per studio.
You know I mean loaded floors,five foot thick walls.
(37:10):
It takes everything you got toreally get to that broadcast
level and I prefer just usingthose studios.
Anyway, to be honest with you,we get back to working on song
and space.
It's like we have to be.
You know, I've been in New Yorkseveral times looking for
studios.
I just actually was talking tosomebody today about a deal that
might get us a studio to recordthe voices and then some of the
(37:32):
work can be done, not in astudio in terms of the putting
the sessions together and maybeeven mixing, but recording.
To get a good recording, it'sthe simplest thing in the world.
You need a soundproof room witha really good microphone.
That's it.
Those are the only two thingsyou get.
You need To get that.
You're going to have to spendlike 20 grand.
(37:53):
I mean it's never going tohappen in a closet, you know.
Dane Gorman (37:56):
No well, a lot of agencies saw during COVID that
it was a cost saver becausepeople were starting to buy the
equipment so they could recordfrom home because no one was
going in person to sessionsduring COVID.
And you know studio costs.
Can you know for a radioproject that maybe not so much.
(38:17):
It's not an all day thing butdepending on what the project is
, the studio costs can add up.
And I think a lot of people, alot of their clients, saw the
savings and using people withhome studios.
But I think now we've gonefurther past COVID.
More and more agencies arewe're sending people into a
(38:42):
studio.
Chris Mchale (38:43):
You know, when I'm doing voiceover, I just really
want to stand up in front of amicrophone and read the copy and
have somebody say to me youknow what, that needs to be
quicker, it needs to be slower,it needs to be funnier, whatever
they want.
Dane Gorman (38:56):
Try it again upside down.
Chris Mchale (38:58):
Yeah, can you do a handstand?
When I get into a recordingstudio with a good Neumann in
front of me, I'm just like sorelaxed.
I'm like, okay, I can just bemyself.
I can just find thisperformance.
I don't have to worry aboutanything, I can just focus on
that.
I know the sound is going to begood.
Dane Gorman (39:14):
I know they're going to get what I do and it's
kind of like the feeling you getwhen you're dressed up and
you're wearing some nice clothesand you like the way you look
in them.
Is a voiceover actor.
You have to like the way yousound, you know you have to like
the way you sound.
Chris Mchale (39:28):
Yeah and uh.
You're an actor, you're acting,so you're not always going to
nail it.
You know you're gonna it's notgoing to happen, but at least it
will sound good.
And I don't think people I thinkpeople really underestimate
underestimate how much of whatsounds pro is is just the
technology.
You know it's like if you're ina real studio and you've got an
(39:52):
engineer, you got an assistantengineer, you got a producer,
you got a director, you gotgreat microphones, you got good
space and air, and it's it's.
It just elevates everythingabout your game, whether Whether
you're an excellent actor ornot.
You're going to be better inthat situation.
Dane Gorman (40:07):
There are a few of those, you know I'm not going to
name names.
There are some guys that havebeen around for a long time,
those announcer voiceover guysthat just get copy facts to them
and they just shoot it back tothe client.
You know and it's done.
You know that have these reallyamazing studios and they're,
(40:30):
you know it is available onlineto find them and what they ask
you, what's required of you topurchase, you know.
But if you're going to start inthe voiceover industry, you got
, it's going to be an investment.
You're going to start in thevoiceover industry.
It's going to be an investment.
You're going to have to investsome money.
Chris Mchale (40:48):
Yeah, I know some voice talent that have
incredible studios and they'vemade the investment and, yeah,
they can sit in their studio bythe lake out in New York.
Dane Gorman (40:57):
Yeah, in their pajamas with a cup of coffee.
Chris Mchale (41:01):
Even back in the 90s I knew people that were
doing that.
They would spend like $100,000,which I think is really the
number.
You know I don't mean to shockpeople listening to this, but I
actually think that's areasonable number to me to put
together a pro-level studio.
And you know that moneyincludes like hiring guys to set
it up for you and to maintainit to a certain degree.
(41:22):
I think once you get it set upand it's rocking, yeah, you
could go in there and do yourthing, you could also rent it
out to other voiceover people inyour area because you know, and
make some money back on it.
Dane Gorman (41:36):
I know a lot of actors who like say they're in
Huntington West Virginia just tothrow out a place.
But you know, when you'relooking for a studio in
Huntington West Virginia just tothrow out of place, but when
you're looking for a studio inHuntington West Virginia to send
an actor who doesn't have ahome studio, the agent will go,
oh, but so-and-so, has a reallygood professional home studio
(41:56):
and he rents it out and it's not$200 an hour.
I think he only charges $50 anhour.
He gives the voiceover discount.
So you could be that guy inyour region that has the
broadcast quality home studiothat you spend a hundred
thousand dollars on.
Chris Mchale (42:11):
But you can make some of your money back because
you can help your fellowvoiceover people I went to a
studio in new york city, justlike in the last two or three
months, uh on like in the 30sand like just off of Fifth
Avenue, and it was just a 10,000square foot floor with 10 vocal
(42:33):
booths and 10 Pro Tools systemsand 10 Neumann microphones.
Dane Gorman (42:36):
And you could rent it.
That's a very smart person whodid that.
Chris Mchale (42:39):
You could rent it for $50 an hour.
That's amazing.
It really is where I end upwhen we talk about this stuff.
You've got to get a studio.
That's really a conversationfor the clients, not the talent.
You've got to get a studio.
There are studios all over thisworld that will rent you a
studio and I've done a lot ofshows in $100-an-hour studios
(43:00):
and it's fine.
It's just a matter of gettingthat initial recording in front
of a good microphone in a goodbooth.
That's it.
Once I have that, we can runthat football down the field.
I did a voiceover classrecently.
I was invited to do a voiceoverclass with Everett Oliver.
Dane Gorman (43:18):
Yeah, Everett yeah.
Chris Mchale (43:19):
Yeah, you hooked me up with him and he's a great
guy and it was reallyfascinating to me.
But the most fascinating partto me were the questions I was
asked after, and there's a lotof people out there that are
getting a lot of the wrong ideas.
I started doing pro work.
I was like an assistant radioproducer at an advertising
(43:41):
agency.
Assistant radio producer at anadvertising agency.
I wasn't allowed near any kindof responsibility till I had
done like a lot of sessions andkind of proved myself.
I spent a lot of time sittingin the studio with senior
producers, incredible radiotalent and voice talent and
sitting in the back room andsomebody like Arnie Rosen at the
board and you learned.
I mean you learned.
Dane Gorman (44:02):
Arnie taught yeah you learned.
I learned.
Barney taught me everything Iknow about radio production.
That's where I learned, and Ilearned because I went there for
every radio job I had and I gotbetter and better and better
the longer I was there workingbeside him and I, you know, I
had the confidence to go outthen on my own and like I can do
(44:23):
this, you know.
But I feel sad, I feel bad forthe voiceover actor today
because it is oversaturated.
There's so many people tryingto get into voiceovers because
somebody's told them oh, it's soeasy and you can work from your
home.
And some people are going torise to the top because they
(44:46):
have this unique voice orthey're really a good actor and
their natural abilities come out.
But not everybody should be avoiceover actor.
Chris Mchale (44:57):
Yeah, it's a talent.
You know, a talent is a wholediscussion in itself.
You know this voiceover class Idid with Everett.
There were like a couple ofpeople in there that really had
chops and they really stood out.
It's a hard thing to definewhat it is, and especially when
you talk about things likecommercial acting, because
commercial acting is really theability to sound like yourself
(45:19):
and so that when people listento you you're not just trying to
sell a product.
Dane Gorman (45:26):
Yeah, you're believable.
You're trustworthy because yousound like their next-door
neighbor.
Chris Mchale (45:32):
Yeah, you sound like the guy next door.
Dane Gorman (45:34):
You know what's impressive about that class that
you taught?
You were telling me there werea couple of guys there that have
really good chops.
Those guys are constant.
I know those guys.
They're constantly working attheir craft.
Chris Mchale (45:47):
Yeah, constantly there's no magic here.
If you decide you want to be avoiceover, you know, first of
all call me.
Dane Gorman (45:54):
You know, and I'll try to talk you out of it I
think that, um, it's, it's.
Chris Mchale (45:59):
You need to work it.
Look, I've been.
I, I'm a guy who startedworking when I was 14 years old.
I started doing films and stuffand then I started singing
jingles in studios.
By the time I was 16, 17, I wasworking full-time doing stuff.
And it's a lot of years laternow and it's a lot of years
(46:23):
later now and I still spendhours every day working on my
craft.
Whatever I'm looking at, I don'tdo as much voiceover as I used
to.
But if I'm going to dovoiceover, I have a whole
process.
I go through with warming upand doing tongue twisters and
all sorts of stuff to get myvoice loose.
(46:44):
And you know, when an actorwalks into, gets on mic, I'm
expecting that they've alreadydone like two hours worth of
work to get their voice ready.
And I know that every actor Iworked with in New York that's
the way they started out theirday.
They would do 60 minutes ofexercise with their voice Did a
lot of work actually with JamesEarl Jones, that guy it's a
(47:05):
cliche to say it, but that guycould read a phone book and he'd
be like, wow, that's the bestphone book I've ever heard.
Luke, I'm your father.
See, that's me proving I am notJames Earl Jones.
That's me proving I am notJames Earl Jones.
Working with him was really oneof the highlights of my career,
(47:29):
no doubt about that Sweetheartof a guy.
Okay, so we didn't actually getto say goodbye to Dane, because
I am a technical, incompetentperson, so I just thought I'd
call her up and say, dane, thankyou so much for coming on to
(47:49):
this podcast.
It was a really greatdiscussion.
Dane Gorman (47:53):
I really enjoyed it .
Thank you, chris.
I thought it was something thatmade me think a little bit more
than I normally would have beenthinking about the topic, and I
look forward to having morediscussions with you in the
future.
Chris Mchale (48:08):
Oh yeah, definitely, and hopefully, when
you hear this one, you don't golike, hey, wait a minute, no,
you sound great, you sound greatand I'll get this to you as
soon as I can.
So thanks again, and we'll talksoon.
Dane Gorman (48:20):
It's been my pleasure, thank you.
Chris Mchale (48:28):
I wanted to thank Dane for coming on.
Creativity Jijiji this isproduced by Studio Jijiji and if
you want to see what we're upto, we're innovating.
We're coming up withinnovations in developing IP.
That's essentially what we'redoing at Studio to Gigi.
Developing IP.
That's essentially what we'redoing at Studio Jijiji, and
we're really focused on audiodramas and podcasts and music
(48:48):
and all the stuff that we love.
We're focused on love people.
Anyway, studiojijijiio, visitus there.
Subscribe to our newsletter.
Subscribe, join the site.
Come on, join us, because themore we are together, the
(49:10):
happier we will be Now, the morewe can solve problems.
Solving problems is mysuperpower and this is a big one
.
We're trying to solve how todevelop IP in a market that is
like running into walls everyway it turns.
So join us, studiojijijiio, andsubscribe to this podcast
(49:32):
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we'll talk to you next week.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
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