September 25, 2024 • 17 mins
Ever wondered how getting lost can lead to the most unexpected and creative discoveries? Join us as we recount a whimsical adventure through London in search of a Celtic bouzouki, only to find that the true treasure was the journey itself. This episode is a celebration of the unpredictable road to creative success, where maintaining a constant creative spirit—regardless of how it might bewilder those around us—is key. We touch upon the necessity of a little selfishness in artistic pursuits and the profound impact mentors can have on our creative paths. Through personal tales of my diverse career, we reveal how adaptability and embracing the unknown are vital in today’s intricate creative landscape.
In another engaging chapter, we dive into the essence of pursuing a creative career—highlighting persistence, risk, and the importance of a beginner's mindset. From my experiences in a New York recording studio to the transformative journeys of icons like Lady Gaga and Harrison Ford, we showcase how being "lost" can lead to the most profound artistic breakthroughs. Closing with reflections on creating a unique studio environment and surrendering to the creative process, this episode invites you to join our community at Studio Jijiji. Follow your instincts, explore your passions, and connect with others through shared interests—because the most beautiful creations often arise when we least expect them.
Thanks for listening.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I had it in my mind to buy a Celtic bouzouki.
I wanted to learn some Irishtunes and I thought with a
bouzouki I could get into anyIrish session in any bar.
I mean, everybody wants abouzouki player, right?
I'd be the only bouzouki playerat Irish sessions in New York.
(00:33):
That was my idea, pretty coolidea.
So with that mission in mind, Ileft my hotel and I wandered
through my favorite city in theworld, London, where I was
raised as a kid To get lost, notto find a bouzouki, but just to
(00:58):
get lost.
And when I got lost, I waspretty sure I'd find a bouzouki.
And when I got lost, I waspretty sure I'd find a bouzouki.
What we're talking about hereis navigating the road to
creative success.
Embrace the maze.
What does that mean?
That's what we're talking aboutin this ErgGG podcast, so
(01:27):
welcome.
I've always been the type of guywho asks about things.
I sought out and engaged withmentors, you know, for all the
things I like to do creativescripts, directing, producing
small business, marketingtechnology, video games, even
(01:50):
opera, live theater, musicals,concerts I've done them all
because my main goal in life wasto maximize my creative spirit
every single day.
And you know when I got thatidea when I was eight years old.
(02:10):
That's right, that's when Istarted writing, at eight.
So every day I've tried tomaximize my creative spirit and
it's driven everybody around mecompletely crazy.
I got to tell you, nuts, I mean, it's just, you know that
(02:34):
expression be here now.
Well, I am, be here now.
The only thing is that's not socool.
People don't want to be aroundyour be here now.
They really don't.
But when you're an artist, whenyou're focused like that,
there's a natural sort ofselfishness that you need to get
(02:55):
your work done.
That is not for a healthy,balanced life.
Okay, I am not a healthy guy.
I'm a guy who's just set outevery single day to do something
creative.
And I've done it writinglighting, design, packing a 45
foot truck so that I didn't needany rope and I could just close
(03:20):
the doors.
Learning to play guitar,learning to sing which I never
quite got, you know.
Going to New York, getting intoadvertising, getting into
marketing, learning how to dothat, doing shows, animation,
cartoon shows, learning how todo that, getting into video
(03:42):
games, learning how to do that.
That's what my life has alwaysbeen like and I like to learn
and I like to ask questions frompeople above me, except that
now I'm one of the guys above me, so I should be saying, hey,
(04:02):
this is what you got to do forsuccess, except it's gotten
really complicated, not asstraightforward, but that's a
good thing.
That's a good thing because Ireally believe a creative career
is a labyrinth.
I like wandering, getting lost,discovering, shifting
(04:33):
perspectives and losing myself.
When you do that, you seethings in a new way.
Every single day you can seethings differently, and the
easiest way to do it is to getlost.
I swear to God, that's what Ithink.
(04:55):
Anyway, when I was a youngercreative, I took lots of advice
about my career.
I mean, you do right, you askpeople what should I do?
And I had some mentors thattold me exactly what to do and I
did exactly that and I had alot of success.
Those roads that I took are noteven there anymore, which is
(05:16):
made it more of a labyrinth thanever.
As an older creative, I getasked the same questions.
I asked older creatives when Iwas younger the same questions.
The answers are not as clear.
When I first went to New York towork as a musician, people told
(05:39):
me get a job at a recordingstudio.
So you get a job at a recordingstudio, not just sitting behind
a desk and recording, but likesitting out and answering phones
or going and getting coffee forall the musicians or just
sitting in the back, you know,taking notes on paper, take
notes.
I mean these were the roots,this is what you did.
(06:00):
I worked as an assistantproducer doing radio ads.
I mean, I knew nothing aboutradio ads but I got this gig and
I thought, okay, I'll do this,and that opened the door to a
lot of things.
I got that gig because somebodyhelped me get it.
A family member helped me getthat job.
(06:20):
The point is there is no realroute to a creative career.
You just start and you makeevery day a challenge and
eventually, I promise you, youwill get there.
Even if you don't have atremendous amount of monetary
success, you will have atremendous amount of artistic
success and that's moreimportant.
(06:42):
That is really more important.
It's a wild, unpredictableprocess that requires risk,
failure and, above all,persistence and honestly, I love
(07:08):
it.
Look, there is no straight pathto creative success.
There's just no such thing.
Vincent van Gogh, right?
You look at that guy.
He redefined how we see theworld.
I mean, he painted an energeticbeauty.
He wandered here and there,lost.
(07:32):
He got drunk.
He got sober, he got drunkagain, he had fights, he fell
out of chairs.
That dude was lost in a fog.
And look, look at the paintings.
Oh my gosh, years, lady Gaga.
(07:59):
Maybe not a couple hundredyears, but Lady Gaga, right,
lady Gaga.
She hustled around Manhattan.
I know that gig.
You go to a?
Um down a bleaker street.
There's a bar called the bitterend and on the wall is a
picture of Lady Gaga.
I mean, she can't be more than17 years old.
It's pretty amazing.
She hustled all over the city.
She demanded people payattention to her.
(08:22):
Nobody expected her to become astar, except Gaga.
She knew that she was going tobe a star.
She knew it.
She knew it and she lived itevery single day.
And if she saw a window openshe would just jump through it.
She knew it and she lived itevery single day.
And if she saw a window openshe would just jump through it.
(08:43):
I don't think she had any ideawhat was on the other side of
that window.
She just jumped.
And when she got on the otherside of the window she figured
it out.
Harrison Ford.
Right, that guy was working asa set carpenter one day and he
was Han Solo the next.
(09:05):
He was ready, though he wasready.
Gaga was ready.
That's another secret.
That's why you gotta focus onyour art.
I'm gonna get a little woo woo.
I'm gonna talk about the angels, because I really believe that
(09:27):
the angels will put you on thepath you need to get on if you
do not resist and that's part ofbeing lost, that's a big part
of being lost.
You're lost, you don't knowwhere you are.
Surrender to it, just surrenderto it.
Look, you have to get straightabout some of this stuff.
(10:12):
It's sort of like you needbeginner mind 24-7.
You don't need to know whereyou're going.
You don't need to know yourpath.
You don't need to sit down andmap out a career.
(10:33):
I mean, we live in a time 2024,where, oh my gosh, the
productivity apps.
Everybody wants to knoweverything about everything at
every time.
They want to have your plane.
I saw this app where it's likewe will schedule your work so
you will get more work done.
They're scheduling 40 hours ofwork a week automatically.
Some AI bot is coming in, goingdo this, do that.
(10:55):
I mean that's crazy.
If you're an artist.
Keep way away from that.
You want to be lost.
You want to be lost and youdon't need a productivity app,
because what you need to do isright in front of you every
(11:16):
single day.
It's a blank canvas or a blankscore book.
Put music notes or a blank pagewhere you can put words.
That's what you start with.
You don't know, you just start.
That's another pro tip Startevery day, do it.
(11:38):
I think it was Hemingway saidnever stop until you know what
your next sentence is.
That's cool.
That's pretty much the onlyplanning you need.
(12:00):
I actually actualized what I'mtalking about.
I built a studio with mypartner in New York City called
Irving Place Studios.
It's still there and I was justthere recently.
It's still beautiful and theguys that own it were asking me
(12:22):
you know what was in your mind?
They didn't really understandit because I didn't really build
a classic studio.
I had all these other things Iwas doing and I wanted a visual
maze because I wanted a sense ofdislocation, of people being
lost.
So we built this studio withlots of windows and then I added
(12:43):
mirrors and the first day Iwent in there.
I'm directing a session.
I'm directing a session and Ilook out and I see a voiceover
in a booth that has nothing todo with my session and I'm like
where is that guy?
Where is he?
I mean, I built the layout andI didn't know where he was.
It was so confusing.
(13:03):
It just kind of your mind alittle bit.
Just you know how dogs tiltyour head.
That's what it was like.
It was like a tilt head.
You know what's going on.
I'm lost.
We did fantastic work in thatstudio and I believe it was
because there was a sense ofdislocation.
(13:26):
We were essentially lost andwhen you get lost as an artist,
the art gets found.
Like I said, I lived in Londonas a kid, so I knew the city.
But no city stays the sameright and memory tells its own
(13:48):
story.
So it didn't take long for meto get lost.
Even though I knew the city, Iwas lost.
I think one of the reasons Igot lost so quickly is because I
wanted to get lost.
I'm looking for a bouzouki.
I want to get lost.
It's the end of the day.
I'm walking through the city,it's twilight and it's raining.
It's kind of magic in a citylike London.
(14:10):
Not a heavy rain, but whatIrish farmers call a soaking
rain, and the streetlights arereflecting off the pavement and
the shop windows are likelanterns of curiosity and I'm
(14:35):
just wandering.
I'm feeling that great feelingof I'm lost.
I don't know where I am.
I love it, really I love it.
So I'm walking down a narrowstreet in London and I'm a
little hunched over from therain, and up ahead I see an
(14:59):
alley and as soon as I see it Iknow that in that alley there is
a music store that sellsbazookas.
Okay, that's going to soundcrazy to you, but that is
exactly what happened.
(15:20):
I just knew I'd never beenthere before.
I don't think.
Maybe in my deep memory I had,but I don't think so.
I was just walking down.
I get to the end of the alleybeautiful old alley.
(15:41):
I turn around and there's amusic store, a beautiful music
store.
It looks like something youmight see out of Harry Potter,
like that alley.
They have where they go andthey have all the shops.
It was kind of that, thisbeautiful music store.
I walk into the music store.
I open the door.
There's two guys at the backand I say to them do you sell
bouzouki?
It turns out to be like thenumber one place in London to
(16:09):
buy a Celtic bouzouki.
All right and sure enough.
I'm walking back out of Londonto buy a Celtic bouzouki.
All right and sure enough.
I'm walking back out of thatstore with a Celtic bouzouki in
my hand back to New York andwandering around trying to get
into Irish music sessionsplaying this bouzouki.
It just came to me, it's what Iwanted to do.
My instinct said you know what?
(16:30):
You should learn some Irishtunes because it's part of my
culture.
And my instinct said you knowwhat?
You should just go for a walkand see if you can find this
bouzouki.
And it worked.
I got what I needed for my art.
I got lost and I found it.
This is Chris McHale.
(16:50):
I am the CCO of Studio Jijiji.
This is Air Jijiji, and we hopeyou subscribe or follow
whatever it is Podcastseverywhere where your ears
wander.
Visit our website,wwwstudiodjijiio.
(17:17):
Subscribe to our newsletter,subscribe to our podcast and
join us.
I actually like to talk topeople about their career of
work and I love hearing whatthey're up to and what they're
doing, and we've got someprograms which you can
contribute to.
So visit the website, reach outto me and let's see if we can
(17:42):
work together.
Thanks for listening.
I had it in my mind to buy a Celtic bouzouki.
I wanted to learn some Irishtunes and I thought with a
bouzouki I could get into anyIrish session in any bar.
I mean, everybody wants abouzouki player, right?
I'd be the only bouzouki playerat Irish sessions in New York.
(00:33):
That was my idea, pretty coolidea.
So with that mission in mind, Ileft my hotel and I wandered
through my favorite city in theworld, London, where I was
raised as a kid To get lost, notto find a bouzouki, but just to
(00:58):
get lost.
And when I got lost, I waspretty sure I'd find a bouzouki.
And when I got lost, I waspretty sure I'd find a bouzouki.
What we're talking about hereis navigating the road to
creative success.
Embrace the maze.
What does that mean?
That's what we're talking aboutin this ErgGG podcast, so
(01:27):
welcome.
I've always been the type of guywho asks about things.
I sought out and engaged withmentors, you know, for all the
things I like to do creativescripts, directing, producing
small business, marketingtechnology, video games, even
(01:50):
opera, live theater, musicals,concerts I've done them all
because my main goal in life wasto maximize my creative spirit
every single day.
And you know when I got thatidea when I was eight years old.
(02:10):
That's right, that's when Istarted writing, at eight.
So every day I've tried tomaximize my creative spirit and
it's driven everybody around mecompletely crazy.
I got to tell you, nuts, I mean, it's just, you know that
(02:34):
expression be here now.
Well, I am, be here now.
The only thing is that's not socool.
People don't want to be aroundyour be here now.
They really don't.
But when you're an artist, whenyou're focused like that,
there's a natural sort ofselfishness that you need to get
(02:55):
your work done.
That is not for a healthy,balanced life.
Okay, I am not a healthy guy.
I'm a guy who's just set outevery single day to do something
creative.
And I've done it writinglighting, design, packing a 45
foot truck so that I didn't needany rope and I could just close
(03:20):
the doors.
Learning to play guitar,learning to sing which I never
quite got, you know.
Going to New York, getting intoadvertising, getting into
marketing, learning how to dothat, doing shows, animation,
cartoon shows, learning how todo that, getting into video
(03:42):
games, learning how to do that.
That's what my life has alwaysbeen like and I like to learn
and I like to ask questions frompeople above me, except that
now I'm one of the guys above me, so I should be saying, hey,
(04:02):
this is what you got to do forsuccess, except it's gotten
really complicated, not asstraightforward, but that's a
good thing.
That's a good thing because Ireally believe a creative career
is a labyrinth.
I like wandering, getting lost,discovering, shifting
(04:33):
perspectives and losing myself.
When you do that, you seethings in a new way.
Every single day you can seethings differently, and the
easiest way to do it is to getlost.
I swear to God, that's what Ithink.
(04:55):
Anyway, when I was a youngercreative, I took lots of advice
about my career.
I mean, you do right, you askpeople what should I do?
And I had some mentors thattold me exactly what to do and I
did exactly that and I had alot of success.
Those roads that I took are noteven there anymore, which is
(05:16):
made it more of a labyrinth thanever.
As an older creative, I getasked the same questions.
I asked older creatives when Iwas younger the same questions.
The answers are not as clear.
When I first went to New York towork as a musician, people told
(05:39):
me get a job at a recordingstudio.
So you get a job at a recordingstudio, not just sitting behind
a desk and recording, but likesitting out and answering phones
or going and getting coffee forall the musicians or just
sitting in the back, you know,taking notes on paper, take
notes.
I mean these were the roots,this is what you did.
(06:00):
I worked as an assistantproducer doing radio ads.
I mean, I knew nothing aboutradio ads but I got this gig and
I thought, okay, I'll do this,and that opened the door to a
lot of things.
I got that gig because somebodyhelped me get it.
A family member helped me getthat job.
(06:20):
The point is there is no realroute to a creative career.
You just start and you makeevery day a challenge and
eventually, I promise you, youwill get there.
Even if you don't have atremendous amount of monetary
success, you will have atremendous amount of artistic
success and that's moreimportant.
(06:42):
That is really more important.
It's a wild, unpredictableprocess that requires risk,
failure and, above all,persistence and honestly, I love
(07:08):
it.
Look, there is no straight pathto creative success.
There's just no such thing.
Vincent van Gogh, right?
You look at that guy.
He redefined how we see theworld.
I mean, he painted an energeticbeauty.
He wandered here and there,lost.
(07:32):
He got drunk.
He got sober, he got drunkagain, he had fights, he fell
out of chairs.
That dude was lost in a fog.
And look, look at the paintings.
Oh my gosh, years, lady Gaga.
(07:59):
Maybe not a couple hundredyears, but Lady Gaga, right,
lady Gaga.
She hustled around Manhattan.
I know that gig.
You go to a?
Um down a bleaker street.
There's a bar called the bitterend and on the wall is a
picture of Lady Gaga.
I mean, she can't be more than17 years old.
It's pretty amazing.
She hustled all over the city.
She demanded people payattention to her.
(08:22):
Nobody expected her to become astar, except Gaga.
She knew that she was going tobe a star.
She knew it.
She knew it and she lived itevery single day.
And if she saw a window openshe would just jump through it.
She knew it and she lived itevery single day.
And if she saw a window openshe would just jump through it.
(08:43):
I don't think she had any ideawhat was on the other side of
that window.
She just jumped.
And when she got on the otherside of the window she figured
it out.
Harrison Ford.
Right, that guy was working asa set carpenter one day and he
was Han Solo the next.
(09:05):
He was ready, though he wasready.
Gaga was ready.
That's another secret.
That's why you gotta focus onyour art.
I'm gonna get a little woo woo.
I'm gonna talk about the angels, because I really believe that
(09:27):
the angels will put you on thepath you need to get on if you
do not resist and that's part ofbeing lost, that's a big part
of being lost.
You're lost, you don't knowwhere you are.
Surrender to it, just surrenderto it.
Look, you have to get straightabout some of this stuff.
(10:12):
It's sort of like you needbeginner mind 24-7.
You don't need to know whereyou're going.
You don't need to know yourpath.
You don't need to sit down andmap out a career.
(10:33):
I mean, we live in a time 2024,where, oh my gosh, the
productivity apps.
Everybody wants to knoweverything about everything at
every time.
They want to have your plane.
I saw this app where it's likewe will schedule your work so
you will get more work done.
They're scheduling 40 hours ofwork a week automatically.
Some AI bot is coming in, goingdo this, do that.
(10:55):
I mean that's crazy.
If you're an artist.
Keep way away from that.
You want to be lost.
You want to be lost and youdon't need a productivity app,
because what you need to do isright in front of you every
(11:16):
single day.
It's a blank canvas or a blankscore book.
Put music notes or a blank pagewhere you can put words.
That's what you start with.
You don't know, you just start.
That's another pro tip Startevery day, do it.
(11:38):
I think it was Hemingway saidnever stop until you know what
your next sentence is.
That's cool.
That's pretty much the onlyplanning you need.
(12:00):
I actually actualized what I'mtalking about.
I built a studio with mypartner in New York City called
Irving Place Studios.
It's still there and I was justthere recently.
It's still beautiful and theguys that own it were asking me
(12:22):
you know what was in your mind?
They didn't really understandit because I didn't really build
a classic studio.
I had all these other things Iwas doing and I wanted a visual
maze because I wanted a sense ofdislocation, of people being
lost.
So we built this studio withlots of windows and then I added
(12:43):
mirrors and the first day Iwent in there.
I'm directing a session.
I'm directing a session and Ilook out and I see a voiceover
in a booth that has nothing todo with my session and I'm like
where is that guy?
Where is he?
I mean, I built the layout andI didn't know where he was.
It was so confusing.
(13:03):
It just kind of your mind alittle bit.
Just you know how dogs tiltyour head.
That's what it was like.
It was like a tilt head.
You know what's going on.
I'm lost.
We did fantastic work in thatstudio and I believe it was
because there was a sense ofdislocation.
(13:26):
We were essentially lost andwhen you get lost as an artist,
the art gets found.
Like I said, I lived in Londonas a kid, so I knew the city.
But no city stays the sameright and memory tells its own
(13:48):
story.
So it didn't take long for meto get lost.
Even though I knew the city, Iwas lost.
I think one of the reasons Igot lost so quickly is because I
wanted to get lost.
I'm looking for a bouzouki.
I want to get lost.
It's the end of the day.
I'm walking through the city,it's twilight and it's raining.
It's kind of magic in a citylike London.
(14:10):
Not a heavy rain, but whatIrish farmers call a soaking
rain, and the streetlights arereflecting off the pavement and
the shop windows are likelanterns of curiosity and I'm
(14:35):
just wandering.
I'm feeling that great feelingof I'm lost.
I don't know where I am.
I love it, really I love it.
So I'm walking down a narrowstreet in London and I'm a
little hunched over from therain, and up ahead I see an
(14:59):
alley and as soon as I see it Iknow that in that alley there is
a music store that sellsbazookas.
Okay, that's going to soundcrazy to you, but that is
exactly what happened.
(15:20):
I just knew I'd never beenthere before.
I don't think.
Maybe in my deep memory I had,but I don't think so.
I was just walking down.
I get to the end of the alleybeautiful old alley.
(15:41):
I turn around and there's amusic store, a beautiful music
store.
It looks like something youmight see out of Harry Potter,
like that alley.
They have where they go andthey have all the shops.
It was kind of that, thisbeautiful music store.
I walk into the music store.
I open the door.
There's two guys at the backand I say to them do you sell
bouzouki?
It turns out to be like thenumber one place in London to
(16:09):
buy a Celtic bouzouki.
All right and sure enough.
I'm walking back out of Londonto buy a Celtic bouzouki.
All right and sure enough.
I'm walking back out of thatstore with a Celtic bouzouki in
my hand back to New York andwandering around trying to get
into Irish music sessionsplaying this bouzouki.
It just came to me, it's what Iwanted to do.
My instinct said you know what?
(16:30):
You should learn some Irishtunes because it's part of my
culture.
And my instinct said you knowwhat?
You should just go for a walkand see if you can find this
bouzouki.
And it worked.
I got what I needed for my art.
I got lost and I found it.
This is Chris McHale.
(16:50):
I am the CCO of Studio Jijiji.
This is Air Jijiji, and we hopeyou subscribe or follow
whatever it is Podcastseverywhere where your ears
wander.
Visit our website,wwwstudiodjijiio.
(17:17):
Subscribe to our newsletter,subscribe to our podcast and
join us.
I actually like to talk topeople about their career of
work and I love hearing whatthey're up to and what they're
doing, and we've got someprograms which you can
contribute to.
So visit the website, reach outto me and let's see if we can
(17:42):
work together.
Thanks for listening.
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