March 18, 2024 • 38 mins
Rebecca Noel Ati is ambitious, curious and is determined to achieve her goals.
In fact, she ticked off her goal to be a writer at age 14, when she wrote, illustrated and self-published her first book.
In this episode of Creativity: Uncovered, Rebecca shares her story of balancing her personal and professional creativity, managing her own ambition, dealing with naysayers and her journey to her dream career.
We chatted about:
- How Rebecca published her first book at age 14
- Tips to avoid and manage burnout
- How to balance paid and personal creativity
- Navigating criticism and discouragement
- The concept of the “starving artist”
- How Rebecca moved into illustration and running her own business
- How she and her husband have become digital nomads
Happy listening!
xo Abi
P.S. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/balancing-goals-burnout-amp-naysayers
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
Creativity: Uncovered is a registered Australian Trade Mark.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Do you remember being a kid and having a really strong passion for something?
(00:12):
And it was just so strong that you thought it was going to be your one and only future
path.
You know, you might have said, "Oh, I want to be a doctor," or "I want to be a zoologist
when I grow up," or maybe even a writer.
Well, my guest for today had a goal as a kid, but she didn't wait until she was an adult
to achieve it.
I'm really keen to find out a bit more.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:35):
Uncovered.
My name is Abi Gatling and I am on a journey to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get invented and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to know how people find creative solutions at home, work, play, and
everything in between.
And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it, you will be armed with a whole
(00:59):
suite of tried and tested ways to something creativity the next time that you need it.
Today I'm very excited to be speaking with Rebecca Noel Ati, who was a published writer
at age 14.
But our goals did not stop there and I'm really, really keen to find out more.
(01:20):
So welcome, Rebecca.
Thank you so much for having me.
So Rebecca is actually tuning in from an island off the coast of Africa, is that right?
That's correct.
It's the island of Cape Verde or Cabo Verde, depending on the local and more common pronunciation.
So cool.
We will get into why you're there a little bit later, I'm sure.
(01:44):
But I just have to ask you, I heard that you were an author at age 14.
I'm so intrigued.
Tell me about yourself as a kid, firstly, and what creativity meant to you as a child?
So I was kind of one of those people described by my family in the process, kind of, you
(02:07):
know, drawing, just coming out of the book, drawing, drawing when I was, whenever I had
the chance.
I remember originally being attracted to art just because it was so fun in that tactile
experience, you know, seeing things drawn on paper, I remember.
Actually my first passion for drawing, my mom said, I was just drawing lines on paper
(02:30):
over and over again, different colors, different art supplies, and they were like, what is
she doing?
But I think really when I began to dream about books and real illustration was when we got
these stacks of library books, and my older sister would read through the book, and I
(02:52):
was always looking at the illustrations, going, it's just staring at them, scanning for all
the details.
And I began when we get these coloring books, instead of just coloring in the lines, I would
start looking at the shapes and asking, how did they make this look like it's far away,
or how did they make this look like it has perspective, and just had a lot of curiosity
(03:15):
about it.
Oh, yes, sounds very, like a very curious and intriguing kid.
Is your family creative?
Absolutely, actually.
My mom went into a creative field and she guided me a little bit.
When I got older, she taught me some of the graphic design that I learned, and my dad
(03:35):
was in the tech space at the time.
When I was a child, he was fixing up computers and doing a computer repair business.
And I think it did help that they, it's a kind of funny story because, we'll talk about
this a bit more later, in terms of my own discouragement.
I know a lot of people talk about having these creative dreams, and then their immediate
(03:58):
family discourages them.
In my case, they were never really that discouraging of my artistic passions.
And I remember my mom was always in this really fine line between encouraging me, but giving
me constructive feedback, and that was helpful.
It interestingly enough, ended up kind of just being this narrative I absorbed from the world
(04:20):
around me as I grew up.
The idea that it's impossible, or it's something that you do just for fun as a hobby.
Oh, right.
So you're a local little community who was encouraging, but it was like the wider experience
of somebody.
Yeah, exactly.
(04:40):
Wow, okay.
Definitely, definitely want to unpack that a little bit.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you mentioned before, you're super intrigued with these books and you're looking at the
illustrations.
Were you looking at the writing as well?
Or how did you, tell me how you set yourself a goal to become a writer and what was your
set story?
Yeah, so, well, I actually participated in this event.
(05:03):
I don't know if you've heard of it called Nano-Rymo.
It's a national novel writing month.
My sister and I participated in it in a few times, and that really introduced me into not
only the pictures, but the writing.
So my sister and I had all these dreams we talk about together, okay, let's write a lot
(05:24):
of books, let's be authors, let's make all these different books.
And after years of experimenting and drawing and having this feeling like you have forever
to accomplish your goals, I'm young, it's going to be a long time until I grow up.
I remember when I was 12 years old, it just kind of dawned on me that it felt like adulthood
(05:47):
was around the corner for whatever reason.
I was a very existential 12-year-old, and I just thought to myself, wait, if I don't
start now, this is never going to happen.
So I set out, I decided because in the eyes of a 12-year-old, when you're a teenager,
you're already an adult.
(06:07):
And so I said, okay, I want to publish my book before I'm 13, my first book.
And if I can at least self-publish it and learn about all the printing process and the
bleeds and everything about that.
So I set out to illustrate and write my first children's book before I was 13.
(06:29):
Wow.
That is wild.
But it's funny, actually, I never have thought about this before, but I have a similar feeling
when I hit about 11.
I was like, I want to be.
Really?
Yeah, I've never thought about it since then.
But I had this feeling where I wanted to be a pop star, I wanted to be the next Britney
(06:52):
Spears or something like that.
And I was like, if I don't do it now, I'm going to be too old and I'll be left behind.
That's so fascinating.
And so is like the childhood midlife crisis.
Yes.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Self-awareness.
Yes.
We'll have to figure out why that is.
That's very interesting.
(07:13):
Yeah, that's weird.
I'm going to have to investigate that a bit more.
But so you want to do write and draw, illustrate your own children's book.
What made you choose a children's book?
Well, I was very ambitious back then and I had all of these different ideas of what I
(07:36):
wanted to be.
Funny enough, a few fun ones.
I wanted to be a tap dancer instead of a pop star.
I considered opera singing.
Yeah, this is definitely going to go all together.
And entomology, like the study of insects.
And so when I was thinking like, how do I write a book that puts everything together
(07:58):
that I'm interested in right now at that stage of life?
I thought if I could do these little ladybugs, which was my favorite bug, you know, going
to sleep and, you know, doing a little children's book, then it would kind of combine some things
I was really liking at the time.
And then also I felt like children's books had these adorable illustrations that are
(08:21):
usually they have more illustrations that I really wanted to draw.
So that's why I decided, okay, this is what I want to do for my first project.
And of course, I thought it would be a lot easier than it was.
So it took a really long time.
Yes.
So, I mean, what are the steps that how did you know what the steps are to writing and
(08:43):
self publishing your own book when you're only that age?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, mostly through failure, but basically what I did was, you know, I picked it was
it really put me headfirst into this world of publishing.
And it was helpful for me to learn all these things.
(09:04):
It's funny when I was younger, I really saw it as a series of failures and setbacks.
And now that I'm older, I know that's just how you learn.
And that just was my process of, you know, you look at a world from the outside and it
seems so much easier.
The more you learn, you get more uncertain and you realize all that you don't know.
(09:25):
So I remember I picked a title for the name title for the book.
And then I found out, oh, that's copyrighted.
That's already trademarked.
And then I was what's trademark?
So I went, I was researching it.
I picked out a font.
I had written the book and I picked out a font and put it in the document.
And the, because I was publishing through actually the sites down now.
(09:49):
But originally, I believe it was create space at the time and they were a partner with Amazon.
It was one of those earlier ones.
And I remember they sent it back and said, no, your font doesn't have correct licensing.
Licensing, what's that?
And so I went and researched and I kept on being, you know, disappointed, but then learning
(10:09):
these things.
And then I remember, so I changed the book title.
The one I really got stuck on was Bleeds.
And I honestly will say, I think I just did it by trial and error.
I think only until I was older did I even comprehend what that meant.
I think back then when I did it, I still didn't quite understand what I was doing, but that
that was the part that I got really stuck on.
(10:30):
And then of course, one of the most major failures that I thought I'd never recover
from that we all know too well was that I had the program crash and corrupt a lot of my
files.
So that file, that was like the first major file loss.
I had to recreate work.
(10:52):
And then, you know, I get really excited and say the book's done.
And then, you know, my family would be like, you should review it with people before you
publish it, ask for their opinions.
And then you need to have all the people saying, okay, there's typos here, and this doesn't
make any sense.
And then I had that whole process of like my first feedback.
So there were so many firsts.
(11:12):
And then of course, all of that took longer than I expected.
I ended up finally completing it when I was 14.
And at the time, I'm thinking, I didn't accomplish my goal.
I'm so old and all these things.
So I was so over ambitious and hard on myself at the time.
Oh my God.
(11:34):
Yeah.
I can imagine that.
But then retrospectively, you're probably like, oh, that's crazy, right?
Yeah.
After time went on, I settled with it.
And that helped me a lot because I think that taught me this idea of like, okay, just shoot
for the moon.
And if you get halfway there, it's still an accomplishment.
It's still better than not trying.
(11:54):
So and I think there's a lot of these obstacles in creative work that, you know, when I first
got interested into creative work, it was just for fun.
And so I think there's a lot of unexpected obstacles and these things we have to learn
how to accept like feedback and setbacks and revisions.
(12:15):
So it helped me to learn how to settle with those things and at least start on that process.
And as I became more experienced, all of these ideas I had of, oh, this was a failure or
this didn't work out, I became more proud of what I did.
Yes.
And it sounds like you were streaks ahead of so all the learnings that you would have
(12:41):
probably come across when you started your actual career, but you were doing it when
you're a little bit of a tweenager.
Yeah, I still had a lot to learn, but emotionally it prepared me a little more.
Absolutely.
Very mature head on your shoulders at that age to be able to accept all those failures
as learning opportunities.
(13:02):
Tell me what did your family think when you first said, I'm going to write a book.
I have to do it now.
I can't wait till later.
Honestly, I mean, I was like I said, I was kind of like this overly ambitious.
And as you can tell, I was really stubborn.
I've learned and I still try to learn how to mellow that trade out a little bit, but
(13:25):
I was really stubborn.
I was really ambitious and very determined.
So they were just like, yeah, as long as you study, go for it.
I definitely had some challenges because I remember when I committed myself so much to
that project, I remember also having a hard time at that age balancing like my perspective
(13:48):
was any amount of free time should be creative time that if I'm watching a movie and wasting
my time and I remember there was some times where like on someone's birthday party, I
was in the background trying to work on it and they're like, hey, you know, this is
my birthday.
You should be giving me attention.
And I was just like, this is the center of my universe right now.
So definitely that part was a challenge and I definitely learned over time that it's better
(14:13):
to have more balance with those sorts of things and have time for creative space, but also
relationships are important.
But besides that area, definitely people were supportive.
Yes.
I mean, that's also interesting because I know you're just a kid at that stage, but
(14:34):
when you do dedicate way too much time to your work or your creativity or something
and don't have that balance, that is easily where burnout comes from.
Did you experience burnout when you're at that age or were you able to avoid it?
I think I wasn't sure what burnout was at that time.
So I kind of was writing on this feeling of accomplishment and productivity.
(14:59):
And I think even if you go into my teen years, I kind of had this obsession with that world
of too much self-help and productivity and time management.
So I think it was kind of after I went into that world that I realized, okay, just feeling
productive isn't sustainable.
And that's when I really actually faced some serious burnout.
(15:21):
How did you work through that?
Well, at first, I think the first steps that I took at that time not knowing what to do
with it was just accepting that the initial excitement that I had with art as a hobby
(15:42):
was going to be different now that it was transitioning into I was doing some internships
and working with clients.
And my first approach was, okay, except that it's going to be different when it's work.
And there's going to be days that unlike a book that you're doing on your own for fun,
you're self-publishing, now when I work on books, there's deadlines.
(16:05):
But back then there weren't any deadlines besides what I came up with in my own head.
So the first thing that I approached it with was, okay, sometimes I'm not going to feel
like it and I still have to try my best.
But it took more time for me to start to learn because I became a bit more disengaged with
(16:27):
art at that time.
Okay, this is my work.
And then as I was growing into, you know, like my late teens and my early 20s when this
was a job, I had this attitude of, okay, I love art.
I like this.
I'd rather do this than something else, but it's work.
That gets blurry really quickly.
(16:49):
Yeah.
It really does.
Yes.
So it's become your work.
What you're an illustrator now, is that right?
Yeah, I'm an illustrator now.
Yes.
So how did you get into illustration?
What were the steps there?
Did you realize that after writing this book, the main focus that you liked was actually
(17:13):
doing the illustrations rather than the writing?
Because you could have gone down either path, really.
Yeah.
Well, at the time, this is where, you know, there's the internet and there's people you
meet in real life in, you know, your more expanded communities and people you meet at
events.
And I had this absorbed idea of, you know, the amount of times I'd heard people say,
(17:35):
"The starving artist," or these sorts of stereotypes, "This isn't a real job."
So I had this idea that being a graphic designer was a real job.
Being an illustrator was something you did for fun.
And I pursued graphic design thinking, "This is how I can channel my creativity into some
(18:02):
work that I can do."
But then for illustration, I actually kind of slowed down.
I wasn't doing it as much.
I did it for fun, something to do to relax and put it a bit to the side.
Right.
So you wanted to go into illustration immediately, but you thought you had to go down graphic
(18:22):
design route.
Yeah.
And this was a time also, graphic design was exploding.
You had, you know, all these people doing custom topography.
And you know, we have people making signage and, you know, there was website design was
very new and a lot less complex than it is now.
And it felt like this is a real industry.
(18:46):
And I still had that idea that, okay, someone who draws is going to end up being, you know,
on the streets.
And someone who designs, that's a legitimate job.
So I, and I honestly will say I didn't take the time to educate myself about illustrative
jobs.
I think it was just kind of an assumption I had.
(19:07):
So one thing that I've really embraced now and something I talk to people about a lot
when they ask me about illustration as a job, you know, there's a lot of sub industries.
For example, one thing that I do sometimes now is a technical illustration.
(19:28):
And you know, that's where you're drawing things for like safety manuals, instruction
manuals.
And a lot of times we forget these are drawings and someone's behind all of that.
So I think there's some really stable legitimate industries that are just really invisible.
So when I thought about being an illustrator, I'm thinking drawing characters and drawing
(19:50):
fun drawings or drawing on paper.
And it's like, okay, how do you approach that as a sustainable income?
But I will say I wish I had taken the time to educate myself more on the real industries.
What do real people drawing every day do for a living rather than this broad idea of just
(20:14):
painting or drawing or being creative?
Absolutely.
I think that's really interesting, the idea of the starving artists that you mentioned
before and people discouraging you from going down that particular pathway.
Because I certainly know that when people have said stuff to me that's kind of discouraging
about, you know, starting my business or changing careers and all these types of things is quite
(20:39):
often it comes from a place of being really scared and you don't know what that is all
about.
So it does seem to me like perhaps the people who were discouraging you, they also didn't
know what all the various pathways were for illustration in the workplace.
And so what, I mean, who were the types of people who were saying that you can't make
(21:02):
any money out of that?
Would they be people at your university or your college or anything like that?
So I went the route of, so I took an apprenticeship and then did internships.
So I actually didn't take the, like I didn't get a degree in arts.
I was just pursuing that, especially because at the time graphic design was evolving so
(21:23):
fast that a lot of these courses were out of date by the time that you completed them.
But I think it's kind of an odd thing.
I think sometimes there's these narratives, there can be these narratives around us that
we absorb somehow and we're not quite sure where they come from.
I know I definitely remember hearing people, I think especially if I went to any events,
(21:48):
places that people were less in these niche communities.
So maybe if you went to a design conference or if I was going to a lot of creative events,
I would have had more of that hopeful attitude about it.
But I think you go to a potluck and you talk about creativity and people were already surprised
(22:08):
that graphic design was a job and they'd say, "Okay, be careful."
This sort of thing.
So I think it was just kind of this stereotype that I had absorbed from people around me.
I mean, definitely I had also a lot of people maybe saying very lightly discouraging things
about art.
(22:29):
So that might be taking away some of the legitimacy, but I know it was more coming from a place
of not knowing about that industry than from a place of intentionally discouraging.
There's a lot of jokes like, "Okay, you want to be an illustrator?
My five-year-old son also draws."
(22:49):
Or, "Oh, the classic, wow, that's so cool.
I can only draw a stick figure."
These different comments that you hear and a lot of them were, it just tilted that way
towards this being something that or I think a major one now that I think of it was like,
(23:13):
"If you want to be an illustrator, that's so cool.
That sounds so fun.
I'm sure that that's much less work than other jobs."
Or, "That sounds like something that would be just playing all day and then getting paid
for it."
So, just those little comments that I got from people in a very minor way, you could
(23:34):
say.
So, I didn't really experience anyone telling me, "You can never do this.
This is a horrible idea."
But it was just something that I picked up on from people around me.
Yeah, definitely.
And it's sort of like the death by a thousand cuts, isn't it?
It's no one particular comment that takes you down.
And I hear that a lot as well is that some, because art and creativity and social media
(24:02):
and stuff, they are fun things that is somehow not work and it's not, because it's not serious,
it's not considered real work.
And people don't realize that actually when you're doing it for money, there's completely
different stress to actually creating reels and having reels of your holiday is completely
(24:23):
different.
Completely different.
Absolutely.
That when it starts, there is just some strange change that when you're having to do it not
for your own expression, but for the exchange of money or time or whatever, that it does
change the influence of it somehow.
Absolutely.
Oh, I was just going to ask, so you kind of went down the graphic design pathway, how
(24:49):
long were you in there and when did you manage to, or how did you manage to get into illustration
after finding that path?
And I will add this, I will say, I think going back to that kind of timeline we were going
towards, I think that that idea of it being a fun job might have also contributed towards
me pushing myself too far and burning out as well because I had this idea that, okay,
(25:15):
this should be fun.
This is my passion.
There wasn't a difference between when I was taking time off and when I was working.
So I pursued graphic design and I did enjoy that to some extent and I did get a lot of
knowledge and that's where I really learned about the depth of the technical side of things.
So after I have been working in design for a few years, for some reason I can't remember
(25:39):
the exact timing, but I know it was a few years, maybe three or four years, then I actually
got into illustration and specifically to my first traditionally published book project
with an author.
For an interesting reason actually.
So I was doing a design proposal for, basically the client was hiring people, different people
(26:06):
around the world to create a test version of a project for a deck of cards they were
designing and luckily it wasn't spec work.
They were willing to pay for those tests and they were a really brilliant client.
And then when I applied for it, I was actually rejected.
And so I had worked with one of their lead project managers to design that and then I
(26:29):
rejected, I moved on and then later I heard back from them.
They said they had settled on a different style, but they really enjoyed my attitude
working with them.
So they asked, can you work in this style?
And that started a really nice working relationship with them that lasted a while and it was later
down the line that they said, hey, one of the people that's in our company is also an
(26:56):
author and they're publishing a book and we've really enjoyed working with you.
Are you interested in illustrating this book?
So it ended up being more of a relationship and attitude that led towards that path than
the initial project.
And it actually interestingly enough came out of a rejection that turned into one of
(27:16):
my first illustration projects.
I think so that project, I ended up drawing these highly detailed philosophers.
I think it must have been around like 25, 26 and we did it over the course of a month
and it was really enjoyable and it really boosted my confidence in myself as a potential
(27:38):
illustrator.
So I think that confidence boost and then being able to also begin working in that industry,
it really empowered me to say, okay, what can I do here?
Maybe I can, you know, I ended up doing some maps for some other books and I had never
done any maps before and that was really enjoyable and that also involved, you know, mostly illustration
(28:01):
and some design.
And I think from there I just kept expanding and I definitely think there was a point after
experimenting with many different projects that I took a step back and realized I'm mostly
working on illustration.
I think I really want to make an official move towards this as my career and see if I
can support myself with this.
(28:23):
Oh, that's really cool.
It wasn't hard to try and adopt new styles based on those projects.
I mean, I think that I actually have the opposite problem being honest.
Because I started in the industry so early, I was always changing graphical styles and
experimenting with styles for each client.
(28:45):
If anything, it might be a whole nother conversation, but if anything, sometimes I wonder where
my own graphical or illustrative voice is if there's a style that belongs to me.
I just hope that across my works that something shines through in all of them.
But I think that I took on this approach more of trying to understand the character and
(29:08):
the style and approach of each client and that became a part of my process.
So I think to this day I still look at all the projects that I've created so far and
sometimes ask myself where patterns might be because I'm still in that stage of trying
to find my own unique voice in that.
(29:28):
Yes.
That's really interesting.
I actually had a guest on Andy J. Pizza, who is a fantastic illustrative artist.
I think it's wonderful.
And he, I'll send you the links.
He does this great masterclass on how to find your creative style.
And it was eye-opening when I watched it.
I think you'll appreciate it.
But that is interesting that you can be such a chameleon and you can keep evolving and
(29:52):
changing.
But that's an interesting idea that you want to try and find a particular style that is
truly you.
But why is that important to you?
You know, I think it's just developing and involving.
I think that while it's good to care towards clients, I think that it's also something
important that I don't want to lose myself in what you said, being a chameleon.
(30:17):
So I think it's just a matter of asking myself those little questions like what projects
did I especially like?
What techniques did I forget about that I used previously and trying to be my best artist?
I've noticed that, you know, there's some artists who really focus on having one unique
standout style.
(30:37):
And there's some people who care more towards other styles, you know, several different
styles.
And I'm not sure there's a perfect approach per se.
But I just figure that it's something that I should develop, something that, and it's
something I'm curious about too.
I wonder if I'm going to draw for myself sometimes.
I start to wonder, where do I start?
What style do I want to draw?
(30:58):
And if I'm drawing something for a friend.
So I would say that it depends on the industry someone's in or, you know, where their talents
are, but it's just something I'm really curious about.
Yeah, I think it's a really, I think there's a really interesting point is defining who
you are through your creative style.
(31:19):
That's really interesting.
I think the fact that you are able to do so many different styles is fantastic, obviously
for your work and things like that.
Thank you.
You can work with a lot of different clients, but I never really thought about the idea
of having a really distinct creative style purely for maybe just your own personal drawings
(31:40):
to default back to and to keep developing on the side purely for yourself.
That's an interesting concept.
Well, it's a lot of...
There's so many different areas for personal gain and also for professional gain.
It's...
And sometimes they're intertwined.
But yeah, going back to that original timeline actually to kind of finish up and wrap up
(32:02):
that story.
So after I published this was by Penguin Random House and Penguin Polishing merged together.
And that was the first time I was able to see my work in a traditionally published book
and it actually reached the New York Times bestselling list, which was such a huge confidence
(32:23):
booster for me by the time I was already pursuing illustration.
And it really felt like the version of me who originally wanted to publish all these
books, even though obviously I didn't publish a hundred books before I was 14 or anything
like that.
It felt like fulfilling that original vision that I had, that original goal and drive just
(32:49):
now with more experience and taking my time to get there.
That's awesome.
And so I guess at that point, was that when you sort of decided to branch out on your own
and start your own business for doing illustrations or what was your next step after that?
So after working in design, I had transitioned as an independent artist fairly soon after
(33:13):
that.
And then that's when I was kind of doing a mix of works and experimenting.
Eventually I really focused on illustration.
And then when this was reaching the bestseller list, I also ended up doing a special edition
of a book that was a New York Times bestseller, but that's the special edition print.
So it's a little different.
And then I also got the chance to illustrate a historical book that was a reprint of historical
(33:39):
book, which is kind of closely guarded.
It's The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
And I think all these things put together, I started to find where I was passionate in
illustration and where I wanted to do it in my work because I'd also learned by now that
being everything to everyone had burned me out a lot.
(34:01):
I really need to define where I was skilled and what was inspiring to me.
And I really found that in more technical works that I had to do a lot of research for, where
I wasn't drawing constantly in more long-term projects.
So I did a lot of these nonfiction and historical books.
(34:21):
And then that alongside what I told you before, I had worked with some manufacturers, technical
equipment.
And it really brought out this unexpected side of me that was analytical and creative
and I felt more balanced.
So actually, my husband's an engineer.
And when we started, we were working alongside each other.
(34:43):
We were both doing remote work.
And that's when we decided, okay, we want to start a company together because he does
video editing and animation and technical consulting.
And I do illustration and technical illustration.
So we thought, okay, let's start something together and see where this goes.
(35:05):
And I think that's really where it finally blossomed and I felt really where I was supposed
to be in what I was pursuing.
And finally, I wasn't just an artist to everyone catering to everyone's needs.
I was doing what I really loved and felt inspired by and was finally able to set my own pace
and schedule for creativity.
(35:26):
That's wonderful.
That's enabled you and your husband to travel the world and be where you are right now.
Yes.
We call ourselves slow digital nomads.
We don't like traveling around all the time.
But this is really our first island together.
And then we're looking at some other options for where we might want to go next.
(35:47):
We've actually traveled around, well, Cape Verde is a collection of islands.
It's a group of islands.
We've kind of traveled around I think six or seven islands here.
And we were so excited when we did our first working island visit.
We were like, we're real digital nomads.
We're working while we're at an island.
We're not just going on vacation or something like that.
(36:12):
We're really doing it.
So it's been a really interesting experience.
That's so cool.
I love the fact that now you can work from anywhere, especially if you're highly skilled
like you are and have your own business.
That's wonderful.
Combine it with traveling.
Thank you so much.
Living the dream.
Well, I must say thank you so much for joining me, Rebecca.
That was wonderful.
(36:33):
I picked your brains a lot.
I feel like I could keep talking to you for a long time.
But we'll have to remember that.
And I also want to say thank you to everyone who's tuned in today to Creativity (36:38):
Uncovered.
And I hope that this episode has inspired you just to keep trying new things and following
that dream and helps you some in creativity the next time that you need it.
.
Thank you.
(37:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's
(37:29):
episode.
Creativity (37:30):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(37:51):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to unlock
more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Do you remember being a kid and having a really strong passion for something?
(00:12):
And it was just so strong that you thought it was going to be your one and only future
path.
You know, you might have said, "Oh, I want to be a doctor," or "I want to be a zoologist
when I grow up," or maybe even a writer.
Well, my guest for today had a goal as a kid, but she didn't wait until she was an adult
to achieve it.
I'm really keen to find out a bit more.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:35):
Uncovered.
My name is Abi Gatling and I am on a journey to uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get invented and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to know how people find creative solutions at home, work, play, and
everything in between.
And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it, you will be armed with a whole
(00:59):
suite of tried and tested ways to something creativity the next time that you need it.
Today I'm very excited to be speaking with Rebecca Noel Ati, who was a published writer
at age 14.
But our goals did not stop there and I'm really, really keen to find out more.
(01:20):
So welcome, Rebecca.
Thank you so much for having me.
So Rebecca is actually tuning in from an island off the coast of Africa, is that right?
That's correct.
It's the island of Cape Verde or Cabo Verde, depending on the local and more common pronunciation.
So cool.
We will get into why you're there a little bit later, I'm sure.
(01:44):
But I just have to ask you, I heard that you were an author at age 14.
I'm so intrigued.
Tell me about yourself as a kid, firstly, and what creativity meant to you as a child?
So I was kind of one of those people described by my family in the process, kind of, you
(02:07):
know, drawing, just coming out of the book, drawing, drawing when I was, whenever I had
the chance.
I remember originally being attracted to art just because it was so fun in that tactile
experience, you know, seeing things drawn on paper, I remember.
Actually my first passion for drawing, my mom said, I was just drawing lines on paper
(02:30):
over and over again, different colors, different art supplies, and they were like, what is
she doing?
But I think really when I began to dream about books and real illustration was when we got
these stacks of library books, and my older sister would read through the book, and I
(02:52):
was always looking at the illustrations, going, it's just staring at them, scanning for all
the details.
And I began when we get these coloring books, instead of just coloring in the lines, I would
start looking at the shapes and asking, how did they make this look like it's far away,
or how did they make this look like it has perspective, and just had a lot of curiosity
(03:15):
about it.
Oh, yes, sounds very, like a very curious and intriguing kid.
Is your family creative?
Absolutely, actually.
My mom went into a creative field and she guided me a little bit.
When I got older, she taught me some of the graphic design that I learned, and my dad
(03:35):
was in the tech space at the time.
When I was a child, he was fixing up computers and doing a computer repair business.
And I think it did help that they, it's a kind of funny story because, we'll talk about
this a bit more later, in terms of my own discouragement.
I know a lot of people talk about having these creative dreams, and then their immediate
(03:58):
family discourages them.
In my case, they were never really that discouraging of my artistic passions.
And I remember my mom was always in this really fine line between encouraging me, but giving
me constructive feedback, and that was helpful.
It interestingly enough, ended up kind of just being this narrative I absorbed from the world
(04:20):
around me as I grew up.
The idea that it's impossible, or it's something that you do just for fun as a hobby.
Oh, right.
So you're a local little community who was encouraging, but it was like the wider experience
of somebody.
Yeah, exactly.
(04:40):
Wow, okay.
Definitely, definitely want to unpack that a little bit.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you mentioned before, you're super intrigued with these books and you're looking at the
illustrations.
Were you looking at the writing as well?
Or how did you, tell me how you set yourself a goal to become a writer and what was your
set story?
Yeah, so, well, I actually participated in this event.
(05:03):
I don't know if you've heard of it called Nano-Rymo.
It's a national novel writing month.
My sister and I participated in it in a few times, and that really introduced me into not
only the pictures, but the writing.
So my sister and I had all these dreams we talk about together, okay, let's write a lot
(05:24):
of books, let's be authors, let's make all these different books.
And after years of experimenting and drawing and having this feeling like you have forever
to accomplish your goals, I'm young, it's going to be a long time until I grow up.
I remember when I was 12 years old, it just kind of dawned on me that it felt like adulthood
(05:47):
was around the corner for whatever reason.
I was a very existential 12-year-old, and I just thought to myself, wait, if I don't
start now, this is never going to happen.
So I set out, I decided because in the eyes of a 12-year-old, when you're a teenager,
you're already an adult.
(06:07):
And so I said, okay, I want to publish my book before I'm 13, my first book.
And if I can at least self-publish it and learn about all the printing process and the
bleeds and everything about that.
So I set out to illustrate and write my first children's book before I was 13.
(06:29):
Wow.
That is wild.
But it's funny, actually, I never have thought about this before, but I have a similar feeling
when I hit about 11.
I was like, I want to be.
Really?
Yeah, I've never thought about it since then.
But I had this feeling where I wanted to be a pop star, I wanted to be the next Britney
(06:52):
Spears or something like that.
And I was like, if I don't do it now, I'm going to be too old and I'll be left behind.
That's so fascinating.
And so is like the childhood midlife crisis.
Yes.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Self-awareness.
Yes.
We'll have to figure out why that is.
That's very interesting.
(07:13):
Yeah, that's weird.
I'm going to have to investigate that a bit more.
But so you want to do write and draw, illustrate your own children's book.
What made you choose a children's book?
Well, I was very ambitious back then and I had all of these different ideas of what I
(07:36):
wanted to be.
Funny enough, a few fun ones.
I wanted to be a tap dancer instead of a pop star.
I considered opera singing.
Yeah, this is definitely going to go all together.
And entomology, like the study of insects.
And so when I was thinking like, how do I write a book that puts everything together
(07:58):
that I'm interested in right now at that stage of life?
I thought if I could do these little ladybugs, which was my favorite bug, you know, going
to sleep and, you know, doing a little children's book, then it would kind of combine some things
I was really liking at the time.
And then also I felt like children's books had these adorable illustrations that are
(08:21):
usually they have more illustrations that I really wanted to draw.
So that's why I decided, okay, this is what I want to do for my first project.
And of course, I thought it would be a lot easier than it was.
So it took a really long time.
Yes.
So, I mean, what are the steps that how did you know what the steps are to writing and
(08:43):
self publishing your own book when you're only that age?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, mostly through failure, but basically what I did was, you know, I picked it was
it really put me headfirst into this world of publishing.
And it was helpful for me to learn all these things.
(09:04):
It's funny when I was younger, I really saw it as a series of failures and setbacks.
And now that I'm older, I know that's just how you learn.
And that just was my process of, you know, you look at a world from the outside and it
seems so much easier.
The more you learn, you get more uncertain and you realize all that you don't know.
(09:25):
So I remember I picked a title for the name title for the book.
And then I found out, oh, that's copyrighted.
That's already trademarked.
And then I was what's trademark?
So I went, I was researching it.
I picked out a font.
I had written the book and I picked out a font and put it in the document.
And the, because I was publishing through actually the sites down now.
(09:49):
But originally, I believe it was create space at the time and they were a partner with Amazon.
It was one of those earlier ones.
And I remember they sent it back and said, no, your font doesn't have correct licensing.
Licensing, what's that?
And so I went and researched and I kept on being, you know, disappointed, but then learning
(10:09):
these things.
And then I remember, so I changed the book title.
The one I really got stuck on was Bleeds.
And I honestly will say, I think I just did it by trial and error.
I think only until I was older did I even comprehend what that meant.
I think back then when I did it, I still didn't quite understand what I was doing, but that
that was the part that I got really stuck on.
(10:30):
And then of course, one of the most major failures that I thought I'd never recover
from that we all know too well was that I had the program crash and corrupt a lot of my
files.
So that file, that was like the first major file loss.
I had to recreate work.
(10:52):
And then, you know, I get really excited and say the book's done.
And then, you know, my family would be like, you should review it with people before you
publish it, ask for their opinions.
And then you need to have all the people saying, okay, there's typos here, and this doesn't
make any sense.
And then I had that whole process of like my first feedback.
So there were so many firsts.
(11:12):
And then of course, all of that took longer than I expected.
I ended up finally completing it when I was 14.
And at the time, I'm thinking, I didn't accomplish my goal.
I'm so old and all these things.
So I was so over ambitious and hard on myself at the time.
Oh my God.
(11:34):
Yeah.
I can imagine that.
But then retrospectively, you're probably like, oh, that's crazy, right?
Yeah.
After time went on, I settled with it.
And that helped me a lot because I think that taught me this idea of like, okay, just shoot
for the moon.
And if you get halfway there, it's still an accomplishment.
It's still better than not trying.
(11:54):
So and I think there's a lot of these obstacles in creative work that, you know, when I first
got interested into creative work, it was just for fun.
And so I think there's a lot of unexpected obstacles and these things we have to learn
how to accept like feedback and setbacks and revisions.
(12:15):
So it helped me to learn how to settle with those things and at least start on that process.
And as I became more experienced, all of these ideas I had of, oh, this was a failure or
this didn't work out, I became more proud of what I did.
Yes.
And it sounds like you were streaks ahead of so all the learnings that you would have
(12:41):
probably come across when you started your actual career, but you were doing it when
you're a little bit of a tweenager.
Yeah, I still had a lot to learn, but emotionally it prepared me a little more.
Absolutely.
Very mature head on your shoulders at that age to be able to accept all those failures
as learning opportunities.
(13:02):
Tell me what did your family think when you first said, I'm going to write a book.
I have to do it now.
I can't wait till later.
Honestly, I mean, I was like I said, I was kind of like this overly ambitious.
And as you can tell, I was really stubborn.
I've learned and I still try to learn how to mellow that trade out a little bit, but
(13:25):
I was really stubborn.
I was really ambitious and very determined.
So they were just like, yeah, as long as you study, go for it.
I definitely had some challenges because I remember when I committed myself so much to
that project, I remember also having a hard time at that age balancing like my perspective
(13:48):
was any amount of free time should be creative time that if I'm watching a movie and wasting
my time and I remember there was some times where like on someone's birthday party, I
was in the background trying to work on it and they're like, hey, you know, this is
my birthday.
You should be giving me attention.
And I was just like, this is the center of my universe right now.
So definitely that part was a challenge and I definitely learned over time that it's better
(14:13):
to have more balance with those sorts of things and have time for creative space, but also
relationships are important.
But besides that area, definitely people were supportive.
Yes.
I mean, that's also interesting because I know you're just a kid at that stage, but
(14:34):
when you do dedicate way too much time to your work or your creativity or something
and don't have that balance, that is easily where burnout comes from.
Did you experience burnout when you're at that age or were you able to avoid it?
I think I wasn't sure what burnout was at that time.
So I kind of was writing on this feeling of accomplishment and productivity.
(14:59):
And I think even if you go into my teen years, I kind of had this obsession with that world
of too much self-help and productivity and time management.
So I think it was kind of after I went into that world that I realized, okay, just feeling
productive isn't sustainable.
And that's when I really actually faced some serious burnout.
(15:21):
How did you work through that?
Well, at first, I think the first steps that I took at that time not knowing what to do
with it was just accepting that the initial excitement that I had with art as a hobby
(15:42):
was going to be different now that it was transitioning into I was doing some internships
and working with clients.
And my first approach was, okay, except that it's going to be different when it's work.
And there's going to be days that unlike a book that you're doing on your own for fun,
you're self-publishing, now when I work on books, there's deadlines.
(16:05):
But back then there weren't any deadlines besides what I came up with in my own head.
So the first thing that I approached it with was, okay, sometimes I'm not going to feel
like it and I still have to try my best.
But it took more time for me to start to learn because I became a bit more disengaged with
(16:27):
art at that time.
Okay, this is my work.
And then as I was growing into, you know, like my late teens and my early 20s when this
was a job, I had this attitude of, okay, I love art.
I like this.
I'd rather do this than something else, but it's work.
That gets blurry really quickly.
(16:49):
Yeah.
It really does.
Yes.
So it's become your work.
What you're an illustrator now, is that right?
Yeah, I'm an illustrator now.
Yes.
So how did you get into illustration?
What were the steps there?
Did you realize that after writing this book, the main focus that you liked was actually
(17:13):
doing the illustrations rather than the writing?
Because you could have gone down either path, really.
Yeah.
Well, at the time, this is where, you know, there's the internet and there's people you
meet in real life in, you know, your more expanded communities and people you meet at
events.
And I had this absorbed idea of, you know, the amount of times I'd heard people say,
(17:35):
"The starving artist," or these sorts of stereotypes, "This isn't a real job."
So I had this idea that being a graphic designer was a real job.
Being an illustrator was something you did for fun.
And I pursued graphic design thinking, "This is how I can channel my creativity into some
(18:02):
work that I can do."
But then for illustration, I actually kind of slowed down.
I wasn't doing it as much.
I did it for fun, something to do to relax and put it a bit to the side.
Right.
So you wanted to go into illustration immediately, but you thought you had to go down graphic
(18:22):
design route.
Yeah.
And this was a time also, graphic design was exploding.
You had, you know, all these people doing custom topography.
And you know, we have people making signage and, you know, there was website design was
very new and a lot less complex than it is now.
And it felt like this is a real industry.
(18:46):
And I still had that idea that, okay, someone who draws is going to end up being, you know,
on the streets.
And someone who designs, that's a legitimate job.
So I, and I honestly will say I didn't take the time to educate myself about illustrative
jobs.
I think it was just kind of an assumption I had.
(19:07):
So one thing that I've really embraced now and something I talk to people about a lot
when they ask me about illustration as a job, you know, there's a lot of sub industries.
For example, one thing that I do sometimes now is a technical illustration.
(19:28):
And you know, that's where you're drawing things for like safety manuals, instruction
manuals.
And a lot of times we forget these are drawings and someone's behind all of that.
So I think there's some really stable legitimate industries that are just really invisible.
So when I thought about being an illustrator, I'm thinking drawing characters and drawing
(19:50):
fun drawings or drawing on paper.
And it's like, okay, how do you approach that as a sustainable income?
But I will say I wish I had taken the time to educate myself more on the real industries.
What do real people drawing every day do for a living rather than this broad idea of just
(20:14):
painting or drawing or being creative?
Absolutely.
I think that's really interesting, the idea of the starving artists that you mentioned
before and people discouraging you from going down that particular pathway.
Because I certainly know that when people have said stuff to me that's kind of discouraging
about, you know, starting my business or changing careers and all these types of things is quite
(20:39):
often it comes from a place of being really scared and you don't know what that is all
about.
So it does seem to me like perhaps the people who were discouraging you, they also didn't
know what all the various pathways were for illustration in the workplace.
And so what, I mean, who were the types of people who were saying that you can't make
(21:02):
any money out of that?
Would they be people at your university or your college or anything like that?
So I went the route of, so I took an apprenticeship and then did internships.
So I actually didn't take the, like I didn't get a degree in arts.
I was just pursuing that, especially because at the time graphic design was evolving so
(21:23):
fast that a lot of these courses were out of date by the time that you completed them.
But I think it's kind of an odd thing.
I think sometimes there's these narratives, there can be these narratives around us that
we absorb somehow and we're not quite sure where they come from.
I know I definitely remember hearing people, I think especially if I went to any events,
(21:48):
places that people were less in these niche communities.
So maybe if you went to a design conference or if I was going to a lot of creative events,
I would have had more of that hopeful attitude about it.
But I think you go to a potluck and you talk about creativity and people were already surprised
(22:08):
that graphic design was a job and they'd say, "Okay, be careful."
This sort of thing.
So I think it was just kind of this stereotype that I had absorbed from people around me.
I mean, definitely I had also a lot of people maybe saying very lightly discouraging things
about art.
(22:29):
So that might be taking away some of the legitimacy, but I know it was more coming from a place
of not knowing about that industry than from a place of intentionally discouraging.
There's a lot of jokes like, "Okay, you want to be an illustrator?
My five-year-old son also draws."
(22:49):
Or, "Oh, the classic, wow, that's so cool.
I can only draw a stick figure."
These different comments that you hear and a lot of them were, it just tilted that way
towards this being something that or I think a major one now that I think of it was like,
(23:13):
"If you want to be an illustrator, that's so cool.
That sounds so fun.
I'm sure that that's much less work than other jobs."
Or, "That sounds like something that would be just playing all day and then getting paid
for it."
So, just those little comments that I got from people in a very minor way, you could
(23:34):
say.
So, I didn't really experience anyone telling me, "You can never do this.
This is a horrible idea."
But it was just something that I picked up on from people around me.
Yeah, definitely.
And it's sort of like the death by a thousand cuts, isn't it?
It's no one particular comment that takes you down.
And I hear that a lot as well is that some, because art and creativity and social media
(24:02):
and stuff, they are fun things that is somehow not work and it's not, because it's not serious,
it's not considered real work.
And people don't realize that actually when you're doing it for money, there's completely
different stress to actually creating reels and having reels of your holiday is completely
(24:23):
different.
Completely different.
Absolutely.
That when it starts, there is just some strange change that when you're having to do it not
for your own expression, but for the exchange of money or time or whatever, that it does
change the influence of it somehow.
Absolutely.
Oh, I was just going to ask, so you kind of went down the graphic design pathway, how
(24:49):
long were you in there and when did you manage to, or how did you manage to get into illustration
after finding that path?
And I will add this, I will say, I think going back to that kind of timeline we were going
towards, I think that that idea of it being a fun job might have also contributed towards
me pushing myself too far and burning out as well because I had this idea that, okay,
(25:15):
this should be fun.
This is my passion.
There wasn't a difference between when I was taking time off and when I was working.
So I pursued graphic design and I did enjoy that to some extent and I did get a lot of
knowledge and that's where I really learned about the depth of the technical side of things.
So after I have been working in design for a few years, for some reason I can't remember
(25:39):
the exact timing, but I know it was a few years, maybe three or four years, then I actually
got into illustration and specifically to my first traditionally published book project
with an author.
For an interesting reason actually.
So I was doing a design proposal for, basically the client was hiring people, different people
(26:06):
around the world to create a test version of a project for a deck of cards they were
designing and luckily it wasn't spec work.
They were willing to pay for those tests and they were a really brilliant client.
And then when I applied for it, I was actually rejected.
And so I had worked with one of their lead project managers to design that and then I
(26:29):
rejected, I moved on and then later I heard back from them.
They said they had settled on a different style, but they really enjoyed my attitude
working with them.
So they asked, can you work in this style?
And that started a really nice working relationship with them that lasted a while and it was later
down the line that they said, hey, one of the people that's in our company is also an
(26:56):
author and they're publishing a book and we've really enjoyed working with you.
Are you interested in illustrating this book?
So it ended up being more of a relationship and attitude that led towards that path than
the initial project.
And it actually interestingly enough came out of a rejection that turned into one of
(27:16):
my first illustration projects.
I think so that project, I ended up drawing these highly detailed philosophers.
I think it must have been around like 25, 26 and we did it over the course of a month
and it was really enjoyable and it really boosted my confidence in myself as a potential
(27:38):
illustrator.
So I think that confidence boost and then being able to also begin working in that industry,
it really empowered me to say, okay, what can I do here?
Maybe I can, you know, I ended up doing some maps for some other books and I had never
done any maps before and that was really enjoyable and that also involved, you know, mostly illustration
(28:01):
and some design.
And I think from there I just kept expanding and I definitely think there was a point after
experimenting with many different projects that I took a step back and realized I'm mostly
working on illustration.
I think I really want to make an official move towards this as my career and see if I
can support myself with this.
(28:23):
Oh, that's really cool.
It wasn't hard to try and adopt new styles based on those projects.
I mean, I think that I actually have the opposite problem being honest.
Because I started in the industry so early, I was always changing graphical styles and
experimenting with styles for each client.
(28:45):
If anything, it might be a whole nother conversation, but if anything, sometimes I wonder where
my own graphical or illustrative voice is if there's a style that belongs to me.
I just hope that across my works that something shines through in all of them.
But I think that I took on this approach more of trying to understand the character and
(29:08):
the style and approach of each client and that became a part of my process.
So I think to this day I still look at all the projects that I've created so far and
sometimes ask myself where patterns might be because I'm still in that stage of trying
to find my own unique voice in that.
(29:28):
Yes.
That's really interesting.
I actually had a guest on Andy J. Pizza, who is a fantastic illustrative artist.
I think it's wonderful.
And he, I'll send you the links.
He does this great masterclass on how to find your creative style.
And it was eye-opening when I watched it.
I think you'll appreciate it.
But that is interesting that you can be such a chameleon and you can keep evolving and
(29:52):
changing.
But that's an interesting idea that you want to try and find a particular style that is
truly you.
But why is that important to you?
You know, I think it's just developing and involving.
I think that while it's good to care towards clients, I think that it's also something
important that I don't want to lose myself in what you said, being a chameleon.
(30:17):
So I think it's just a matter of asking myself those little questions like what projects
did I especially like?
What techniques did I forget about that I used previously and trying to be my best artist?
I've noticed that, you know, there's some artists who really focus on having one unique
standout style.
(30:37):
And there's some people who care more towards other styles, you know, several different
styles.
And I'm not sure there's a perfect approach per se.
But I just figure that it's something that I should develop, something that, and it's
something I'm curious about too.
I wonder if I'm going to draw for myself sometimes.
I start to wonder, where do I start?
What style do I want to draw?
(30:58):
And if I'm drawing something for a friend.
So I would say that it depends on the industry someone's in or, you know, where their talents
are, but it's just something I'm really curious about.
Yeah, I think it's a really, I think there's a really interesting point is defining who
you are through your creative style.
(31:19):
That's really interesting.
I think the fact that you are able to do so many different styles is fantastic, obviously
for your work and things like that.
Thank you.
You can work with a lot of different clients, but I never really thought about the idea
of having a really distinct creative style purely for maybe just your own personal drawings
(31:40):
to default back to and to keep developing on the side purely for yourself.
That's an interesting concept.
Well, it's a lot of...
There's so many different areas for personal gain and also for professional gain.
It's...
And sometimes they're intertwined.
But yeah, going back to that original timeline actually to kind of finish up and wrap up
(32:02):
that story.
So after I published this was by Penguin Random House and Penguin Polishing merged together.
And that was the first time I was able to see my work in a traditionally published book
and it actually reached the New York Times bestselling list, which was such a huge confidence
(32:23):
booster for me by the time I was already pursuing illustration.
And it really felt like the version of me who originally wanted to publish all these
books, even though obviously I didn't publish a hundred books before I was 14 or anything
like that.
It felt like fulfilling that original vision that I had, that original goal and drive just
(32:49):
now with more experience and taking my time to get there.
That's awesome.
And so I guess at that point, was that when you sort of decided to branch out on your own
and start your own business for doing illustrations or what was your next step after that?
So after working in design, I had transitioned as an independent artist fairly soon after
(33:13):
that.
And then that's when I was kind of doing a mix of works and experimenting.
Eventually I really focused on illustration.
And then when this was reaching the bestseller list, I also ended up doing a special edition
of a book that was a New York Times bestseller, but that's the special edition print.
So it's a little different.
And then I also got the chance to illustrate a historical book that was a reprint of historical
(33:39):
book, which is kind of closely guarded.
It's The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
And I think all these things put together, I started to find where I was passionate in
illustration and where I wanted to do it in my work because I'd also learned by now that
being everything to everyone had burned me out a lot.
(34:01):
I really need to define where I was skilled and what was inspiring to me.
And I really found that in more technical works that I had to do a lot of research for, where
I wasn't drawing constantly in more long-term projects.
So I did a lot of these nonfiction and historical books.
(34:21):
And then that alongside what I told you before, I had worked with some manufacturers, technical
equipment.
And it really brought out this unexpected side of me that was analytical and creative
and I felt more balanced.
So actually, my husband's an engineer.
And when we started, we were working alongside each other.
(34:43):
We were both doing remote work.
And that's when we decided, okay, we want to start a company together because he does
video editing and animation and technical consulting.
And I do illustration and technical illustration.
So we thought, okay, let's start something together and see where this goes.
(35:05):
And I think that's really where it finally blossomed and I felt really where I was supposed
to be in what I was pursuing.
And finally, I wasn't just an artist to everyone catering to everyone's needs.
I was doing what I really loved and felt inspired by and was finally able to set my own pace
and schedule for creativity.
(35:26):
That's wonderful.
That's enabled you and your husband to travel the world and be where you are right now.
Yes.
We call ourselves slow digital nomads.
We don't like traveling around all the time.
But this is really our first island together.
And then we're looking at some other options for where we might want to go next.
(35:47):
We've actually traveled around, well, Cape Verde is a collection of islands.
It's a group of islands.
We've kind of traveled around I think six or seven islands here.
And we were so excited when we did our first working island visit.
We were like, we're real digital nomads.
We're working while we're at an island.
We're not just going on vacation or something like that.
(36:12):
We're really doing it.
So it's been a really interesting experience.
That's so cool.
I love the fact that now you can work from anywhere, especially if you're highly skilled
like you are and have your own business.
That's wonderful.
Combine it with traveling.
Thank you so much.
Living the dream.
Well, I must say thank you so much for joining me, Rebecca.
That was wonderful.
(36:33):
I picked your brains a lot.
I feel like I could keep talking to you for a long time.
But we'll have to remember that.
And I also want to say thank you to everyone who's tuned in today to Creativity (36:38):
Uncovered.
And I hope that this episode has inspired you just to keep trying new things and following
that dream and helps you some in creativity the next time that you need it.
.
Thank you.
(37:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's
(37:29):
episode.
Creativity (37:30):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications.
And the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(37:51):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to unlock
more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.