August 28, 2023 • 40 mins
I always thought that perfectionism was a good thing. A gold star for having high standards.
However, perfectionism isn’t always positive. Sometimes it can hold you back, stop you from pushing yourself and keep you from achieving your goals.
In this episode, I was joined by Kiara Johnson, a neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) practitioner, who helps people make changes in their lives, including new ways of thinking, shifting their mindset and getting rid of limiting beliefs.
She sheds some light on perfectionism, how you can work with it (not against it) the next time you get a creative block.
Happy listening!
xo Abi
P.S. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/perfectionism-aint-so-perfect
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
Creativity: Uncovered is a registered Australian Trade Mark.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:00):
Uncovered. My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions and then how they use them
at home, work, play and everything in between. My goal for this podcast is that by the end
of it, you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to some creativity
(00:33):
the next time that you need it. Today, I am speaking with Kiara Johnson, who is a neuro
linguistic practitioner, hypnotherapist and health coach. Now in Kiara's line of work,
she basically helps people make changes in their lives, including new ways of thinking,
(00:53):
including their mindset and getting rid of limiting beliefs. These are all things that
I think you can agree are extremely relevant in when it comes to creativity. So, welcome, Kiara.
Hi, Abi. Thank you for having me. The pleasure is all mine. Now, Kiara, when I came across your
(01:14):
profile, it really stood out to me because the work that you do seems to be all about overcoming
self-doubt and making changes from the inside out. That's kind of what this podcast is all about.
It's about helping people push through whatever, stopping them from being creative,
(01:34):
and then start to build more creativity into their life. So, I mean, for you as a neuro
linguistic programmer, which is a mouthful, by the way. That's why I always say NLP. NLP, I'll
stick to that. Well, I mean, let's just start with, I mean, what is that? And then how do you
(01:59):
use it to help people achieve that? Yeah, absolutely. And it's a great question because it sounds fancy
and it sounds like a lot, but basically, I'm just trying to help people understand their language.
So, that's all it is, is essentially that brain communication. So, what we're telling ourselves
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and how that actually affects our everyday life and our habits. Also, it's like managing your
self-talk, really. Yeah, correct. And that's a huge part of what I help my clients with is really
managing that negative self-talk. And it's not to all of a sudden become this extremely positive
person because that's not what it's about. We're human. We're meant to experience like a range of
(02:44):
emotions. But it's about when that negative self-talk actually stops you from doing the things that
you want to do. That's where I can come in and help. Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's kind of reframing it or
compartmentalizing it or what do you mean? Yeah, it is reframing it. Yeah, that's part of the thing.
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But it's more about initially getting down to what's actually stopping that person from following
through on the things that they want to do. So, for example, from a creativity perspective,
if someone is constantly getting those creative blocks or they've been wanting to start this thing
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and they're constantly almost like pushing up against a wall, like they just can't work out
why they can't just gain momentum and just continuously follow through, that's when that's
an example of there's something going on deep down. And when I work with those clients, it's about
(03:50):
essentially like peeling back the onion layers. That's how I explain it to my clients. We're just
trying to peel back those layers and figure out what is actually stopping you. Now, for a lot of
my clients that underlying limiting belief is that they don't feel good enough. They don't feel good
enough. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, like this kind of imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah, essentially. Yeah.
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And sometimes it's just that we don't have the language or the awareness around what's actually
going on with us. So, for example, you might be procrastinating quite a lot on something and
you just can't understand why you're procrastinating. So, then you'll go and Google some motivation
advice because you think you have a motivation problem. And essentially, like from a shallow
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perspective, it's motivation, but really underneath, you could be overthinking and
procrastinating because you've got that perfectionist mindset. Right. So, once you figure out
why people are stopping themselves from even starting, you give them sort of a plan to address
(05:02):
that? Yeah. So, we first of all uncover what's going on and start to work out, okay, well,
what really is the problem? And that can sometimes take a couple of sessions to figure that out. And
then, like you said before, about reframing the problem and reframing their language and then
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actually working out, okay, what is it that you really want to do? And let's create a plan to help
you follow through with your plans because a lot of the time I find with my clients is that we're
breaking our own self-trust. So, we're not following through on the things that we said we were going
to do. So, we're breaking that commitment to ourselves. And you can imagine if you made a
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commitment to somebody else and you kept letting that person down, what do you think they're going
to do? Stop trying, right? Anoint, stop trying. Exactly. And that's what's happening to us is
our brain is like, well, I know you're not going to follow through anyway. So, why even bother
setting these plans? Wow, okay. That's very interesting. So, I mean, who typically comes to
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see you? So, initially, when I first started, I've come from a personal training background. So,
I've always worked one-on-one with clients, but just in a different way. And so, of course,
people were coming to see me because they wanted to lose weight. So, they thought, okay, if I can
just sort out this exercise problem and sort out this nutrition problem, then everything's
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going to be great. Like, I will be fit, I'll be healthy, I won't have any problems losing weight.
But what I came to discover over the years of personal training is that it's not just about
the exercise. It's not just about the nutrition. It's about the way that you're approaching
those things. And that's what led me to think, okay, there's got to be another way to help people.
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Like, because just writing them an exercise and nutrition program isn't working, because I'm not
there with them when they're at home making those choices. They're making that choice to drink that
bottle of wine instead of maybe having a cup of tea. And it's easy to say, oh, you know, just have a
(07:25):
glass of water or have a nice herbal tea instead of the wine. And that's a case of easier said than
done. It's because of the underlying belief that's leading that person to do that. Like, they're not
managing their stress and managing their self-talk. Wow, yeah. I mean, that's so true. It's,
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you know, we all kind of know what you need to do to be healthy.
Yes. And quite often, we know what the right path is, is just so we don't have the motivation or
the inclination to actually do that. And so I guess you're right. Like, if you're giving someone
a plan for their fitness or a plan for, you know, reframing their self-talk,
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you've also got to tap into why they want to do that as well. Otherwise, they're just not going
to commit to it. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So how do you tap into finding people's motivation for that?
Yeah. And motivation, it's funny that you bring that up because I think I mentioned that before,
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as we always think that motivation is the problem. It's like, oh, if I could just get motivated enough,
I would be able to finish that creative project or I would be able to exercise consistently. I'd
be able to eat really well. It's just because I'm not motivated and I don't know how to get motivated.
That's often what clients are coming to me about. But when we get down to it, it's not the motivation
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that's the problem. And then if we find ourselves just following that sort of generic motivation
advice, then we're not really dealing with that root cause. So yeah, it's about dealing with that
root cause, helping the client reframe and really helping people build self-trust. Because I think
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that's something that we don't realize that disappears is when with creativity is if we're
wanting to do this project and we keep letting ourselves down, is then we get to the point
where it's like, why even bother? Because I know I'm not going to follow through anyway.
Yeah, wow. It's kind of like this self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Absolutely. So that's my job is to help break that cycle.
Wow. And you mentioned perfectionism before. And when we spoke a couple of weeks ago,
a couple of weeks ago, we had a really great chat about creativity and perfectionism.
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And what was really interesting to me was that we kind of all think that perfectionism is one of
these things. You're like, oh, I'm a Gold Star student. I'm such a perfectionist. And it's kind
of a good thing. But you sort of were saying that sometimes it's not a good thing. It's not
necessarily a good thing. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yeah, sure. And I've only come
(10:30):
to discover this in the last couple of years as well. And it's about how we can actually use that
mindset to our advantage rather than it being a disadvantage for us. So let's go back to say,
for example, when we're in school or university or college, if you've got that kind of perfectionist
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mindset, it's about you wanting to get that Gold Star, for example, or you wanting to get that
good grade. And it doesn't matter essentially about the effort that you put in, like you could
just do things at the last minute. And some people say, oh, you know, I performed better at the last
minute. But it's almost like as long as you just do what you need to do to get that grade,
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then you feel good enough. Because it's like, okay, yes, I've got the good grade. Like I feel good
enough now. And so we're constantly trying to get that validation. But then what happens is we get
out of that school system and we go into employment. Now, as our listeners, sorry, your listeners might
be aware is that, you know, we're not constantly getting that Gold Star in appointment, like you
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need to show up, you need to do your job, you get paid, like that's your Gold Star is, you know,
you're getting paid. And of course, you might get promoted, but those things aren't happening all of
the time. And so it's almost like we lose ourselves because we're not constantly getting that
validation. Right. And that's where we get caught up in, if you start to then, it doesn't really
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pop up in employment, but rather if you, when it comes to starting your own business, or having
your own creativity project, this is where that perfection is a mindset. Or what we also know
it as the fixed mindset is that's where it can catch us off. And that's where sometimes
the overthinking, the procrastinating, that kind of all or nothing mindset, you do everything
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perfectly, or you don't do it at all. And that's where for me, particularly it started to show up
again, is when I started my own business, I found myself overthinking just really basic things.
For example, my website, I would spend hours upon hours upon hours trying to find the right words,
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trying to find the right graphics, the right colors, because I just thought, if I can have this
looking perfect, then people would take me seriously. I can't show up with this kind of
half-assed website because then people will think I'm not professional enough. So I need to make
sure that my social media posts, like everything looks good so that I can come across as being
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good enough to people. Yeah, wow. I mean, I definitely empathize with you when that's
it. And so you recognize in yourself, how did you break through that? Yeah, and an important
component to understand here is that I wasn't consciously thinking, if I can just look perfect,
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then people would take me seriously. This was a very subconscious belief. And this is what
Brene Brown talks about in her work with shame and vulnerability. She describes perfectionism in a way
that I've never heard before and really helped me to understand. So her kind of definition of it is
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saying that if I just looked perfect and do something perfectly, then I can avoid or minimize
those feelings of shame and judgment. And that's what it comes down to is really what I understood
is that I just had a fear of judgment. I feared that if I put myself out there, that people would
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then judge me and that worst case scenario of thinking you put a social media post up and
people write negative comments about it, for example, or like a podcast episode, people send you a DM
and go, "That episode was terrible. What were you thinking putting that out into the world?"
Yeah, wow. And this feels real. It feels like it's extremely real and it can be very debilitating
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for some people. Oh, yeah. I can imagine if you are overthinking about all the what ifs,
especially all the negative what ifs, you just wouldn't, you'd be stopped in your tracks really
and you wouldn't do anything. Yes. Yeah. So sometimes we can overcome it with smaller things.
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And that's why I said with employment before, is that this kind of fixed perfectionism mindset
doesn't affect us as much when we're working for somebody else because we've got something to hide
behind. We've got something or someone essentially to blame if we ever get judged. But when we're out
on our own, say for example, in our own business doing our own creative work, it's all you. So
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there's no shield to hide behind. You are just out into the world and you're vulnerable.
Yeah. Wow. I can imagine it'd be the same with a team-based sport versus a very singular sport,
like tennis or golf or something like that. Whereas it would be, you feel so much more
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exposed if you are the only person performing, you have no one else to blame. Things don't go right.
Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's not consciously you want to blame someone,
but subconsciously it's like having that shield, like that protective mechanism. Whereas when you're
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out on your own, you feel like there's no protective mechanism. And then that will show up as procrastinating,
overthinking and just not putting things out there, like not putting your creative projects out there.
Yeah. Wow. So is that typically how it manifests for people? Is that what it looks like in a
practical sense? That overthinking, just not starting or finishing a project? Or are there
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other ways that people might be able to recognise in themselves that this might be happening to them?
Yeah. And where I first picked this up is from my background with personal training. It might be,
say for example, you want to do the six-week program or the six-week challenge. And you'll do
the first one to two weeks perfectly. You will make time to go to the gym three to five times or
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however much you set yourself. You'll follow your nutrition plan down to a T, like it. You'll be
following this perfectly. And then suddenly, things, life starts to happen. Now, life was
always happening those last couple of weeks, but you prioritised that nutrition plan and that exercise
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plan. And as I said, you did it perfectly, but then things got in the way and then suddenly
you couldn't follow it perfectly. Like you almost missed that streak. Sometimes when we're looking
at habits, we talk about getting this streak. And for that perfectionist mindset, missing that streak
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is horrible. It feels like you've failed essentially. And failing for a perfectionist
is like one of the worst things that could happen because it feels like it's an attack on
your self-worth. And that's where you attach it to not feeling good enough because you feel like
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you've failed. So then in that mindset, what tends to happen is, for example, you'll stop all together
because you're like, well, okay, if I can't do this perfectly, then there's no point doing it at all.
And so you'll stop that program, for example. And then maybe you'll restart it again. But
say if you were two weeks into that program, instead of just continuing on, like a week later,
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just continuing on from say week three, what you'll do is start back at week one,
because you need to get it all perfect. And it needs to be in a line and you need to make sure
that you follow through with every session perfectly. Right. So you sort of default back to
what is easier and you already know that you can achieve. Yes. Is that to gain that sort of
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sense of accomplishment and sense of self again to go, oh, I'm going to go back to week one. I'm
going to do all those things, because I know I can do those. Is that to help sort of like boost
you up a bit, do you think? Yeah. And it's just wanting to get things done. Like there's no way
you could just start back at week three after having a week's break. Like for that fixed,
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perfections mindset, that's just not an option. Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying that, I was sort of
thinking about this person I used to work with, it was supposed to be in a very kind of strategic
role. But when staff got crazy and things were stressful and stuff, they would default back to
all these weird little busy tasks or easy tasks that we're in someone else's kind of remit.
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Because I'm guessing now because they were like, oh, I know how to do that.
And they were able to achieve that. And then I guess maybe was that their way of getting themselves
back on track to try and tackle the harder things, do you think? Yeah. You bring up a really good
point there. And it's so funny that you mentioned the word busy work, because from a fixed mindset
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and a perfectionist mindset, we absolutely love busy work because it makes us feel productive.
And from a perfectionist perspective, you want to feel productive. Like you want to feel like
you're doing things and contributing, but you're never doing the hard things that force you to
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grow and make you be vulnerable. So for example, what that can look like from a creative perspective
is, let's say for me, for example, when I was working on my Pinterest strategy, it would be
finding that perfect way to make my Pinterest graphics look good. Now, that's not going to
make my business grow. That's not going to get me clients. But the thing is it made me feel productive.
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So I would spend all my time doing that. And it's like at the end of the week, oh, gosh,
I've been so busy this week, because we're really attached to being busy. Like being productive
and being busy is absolutely like that makes us feel good to be able to say that. Rather than
essentially working less, but only working on the important tasks that actually put you out there,
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that feels really hard. Yeah, absolutely. I think certainly I will, I recognize myself doing that
too, saying about, you know, getting into the nitty-gritty of your graphics and not focusing
on a strategy. It is hard because trying to engage yourself into that strategic thinking
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and what it means to have the strategy, that's the stuff that will make or break your business.
It's scary to work on it knowing that potentially it may not work. And so I guess that's why you
avoid it, right? Absolutely. And then along with that becomes that self-trust. It's you yourself
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knowing what things are going to move your business forward and having that trust in yourself that
if you set yourself that task that you're going to follow through with it. But what happens is
when we're in that really fixed mindset, we'll kind of set that task and it'll come time to do
that task. And then we find all the excuses in the world not to do that task. And we end up doing
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all that busy work because we say, oh, we're too busy to do that thing. That thing, that scary thing,
we're too busy to do that because you're so caught up doing all that busy work that really,
if you look at it, it doesn't matter. Like that's not the thing. Like choosing the right colours
for your Pinterest graphic is not going to move your business forward.
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Yeah, it's nice and it's fun, but probably not the best use of time.
Absolutely. But it serves the purpose and the fact that it makes us feel productive because it
feels like it's important work. And this is why I never liked that saying done is better than perfect.
I just found that like I didn't resonate with that at all because I'm like, no, but I need it to be
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perfect. Like I can't put something out there that doesn't look good and doesn't look professional
because people will think I'm some fraud. And so having a saying like that, it that's saying,
yeah, done is better than perfect. It's like, oh, yeah, okay, cool. I guess I'll do. But it's like
practically how does that, how do you actually live by that, that whole idea of done is better
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than perfect. And it's about then getting to the reason why you feel the need to make things
quote unquote perfect. Yeah, well, I mean, as you're saying that, that is filling with me with dread
because done is better than perfect. I don't know. I guess it probably goes back to as we were talking
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about before, you know, being a business owner, everything you put out there is a direct reflection
of you. And your, I suppose your worth, your value. It feels terrifying to just go, I'll put it out
there even if it's not your best because it's, I guess, a journey. It's an iterative thing.
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But that fills me with such dread. But I know what you're talking about.
Yeah. And that's why it's like, it's not the best advice really for someone that's stuck in that
mindset because it doesn't help you and it doesn't help address that. So that's why it's about looking
at, okay, why do I feel the need to have everything perfect? Like what is going on? Yeah, because the
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thing is, like you can put something out there that's really good. It's not saying that it's more
about the fact that you feel the need to spend hours upon hours on something that could have been
done in 30 minutes and could have been done really well in 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like too
big of a jump for someone who's in that perfectionist mindset. Just to be like, just done is better
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than perfect. It seems like way too much of a leap. I feel like you'd need to, there's some type of
middle ground, like you said, that it should still be good, but it doesn't have to be perfect.
Yes. But that, we're not going to understand that and not going to comprehend that because
the real reason why we feel that way is because we fear getting judged. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So by
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saying, oh, just put something out there, even if it's not perfect, doesn't matter. No, it does
matter. In my mind, it does matter. I don't care what you say. Yeah. Essentially is, yeah, what's
going on for some people that are stuck in that mindset. And the important thing to recognize is
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that just doesn't then have to be who you are. It's all it is, is it's just a set of beliefs,
which essentially is protecting you or it's almost like to help avoid that shame.
But this doesn't have to be a bad thing or a negative thing or anything. It's just about you
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working out the best way that's going to work for you, rather than trying to follow all this generic
advice. So say, for example, for a habit, you know, if I think like James Clear mentioned is in his
habit book, Atomic Habits. Oh, yes, Atomic Habits. And everyone talks about this book,
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which is fantastic, but he talks about a streak and about not sort of missing a day on something.
But again, from that perfectionist point of view is we, we, when we try and focus on that streak,
that's what really draws in that mindset. And it works negatively against you rather than
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working with you. So it's about finding ways that you can build habits in a way that's going to
work for you and support that mindset, rather than trying to, like I said, follow generic advice.
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. Because as you're saying that, I'm just thinking about there's so much
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marketing and like the gamification of products and services is it's all about that streak.
And you've got to keep logging in every day, like for example, my family obsessed with Duolingo,
they're learning, my mother's learning Swahili for some reason, by the branch in German and whatever.
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And the whole premise of Duolingo is these streaks you have to log in every day, you have to do
yourself every day, and you get points for doing that. And as soon as you miss one,
there's all these consequences. I don't know, you lose points, everyone in your group gets told
that you've lost your streak. And there's, there's like so much shame in that, that I've seen, I've
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been over and, you know, been at my parents' house and it's five minutes to midnight and they're like,
oh my gosh, I haven't done my daily streak or whatever it is. And they are
frantically finishing off their little lesson for the day because they're worried about
all these negative consequences that come in this app that's really kind of inconsequential.
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Yeah. And it's, it really is playing on people's perfectionism.
And if you are really caught up in that mindset, that is going to be something that will really
bring on that shame. Whereas if you say, for example, you were in the growth mindset about
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the thing that you're doing, because we can be in like a fixed or growth mindset in different
areas of our life, like relationships, finances, career, work, you know, so in health was the
other area I was thinking. So you can be in different mindsets about different habits,
depending on, you know, how you think about them. But with something like that, if that was to do
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with like business or health or something, and there was all this shame brought upon by missing
a streak, like you, for example, had someone telling you off if you didn't show up for an
exercise session. For some people, yes, that may work and that's great. But for other people,
that would just send them into a negative spiral of, I knew I couldn't do this. I knew I wasn't
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good enough to follow through and so on and so on. Yeah. Yeah. And I've missed it now. I can't
possibly catch up. So there's no point trying. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, well, I already
failed once. So why would I put myself out there again? So now, like knowing about
perfectionism and how can we work with it to get the best possible results? Because you're
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never going to get rid of it 100%, right? I suppose you're just going to try and use it to your
advantage. Absolutely. And getting rid of it is not really the goal. It's not
helpful. It's more about learning how to work with your brain and with your mindset and understanding
like what makes you tick? How do you work best? And then we talk about, say, for example,
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routines. Some people work really well at night time and other people work really well in the
morning. But it's like society will tell you and all these books that will tell you, get up in the
morning and do your workouts and everything in the morning because that's going to set you up for
success. Yes, that's great advice. But for some people, that may not work. And so it's about
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really understanding yourself and having the awareness of where is your negative self-talk
letting you down? Where is it really holding you back from the things that you want to do?
So firstly, getting that understanding of yourself. And then, as I said, you can really then design
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your life and help create habits in your life that are going to work with you. And that includes
like planning in a way that is going to work with your mindset rather than against it. So for example,
a to-do list is like perfectionist and that fixed mindset like a to-do list is the worst way that
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you can work because you're constantly adding to it. And then you're always going to choose
that busy work like you're not then identifying what's really going to move the needle with your
health or with your business, whatever it is that you're trying to work on. And then we also want
to try and work on all these things like we want to start meditating every day. We want to start
(32:44):
journaling every day. We want to start exercising, but then we want to work on our business. But then
we also want to read this book and then we also want to do this creative task. So it's just like
a to-do list is just not a great way to work if you're in that mindset.
Yeah, I've definitely seen people who love to do this. When they complete something that's not
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on the list, they'll write it on the list just so they can check it off again.
Absolutely. And we want the pretty planner to go with it as well. We need that perfect calendar,
that perfect planner. And if it's messy, we need to buy a new one. And yeah, it's just again,
but it feels productive and it feels responsible to be doing those things. And
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someone is probably not realising that that's actually working against them.
Yeah, wow. So do you have any tips or strategies for people to start to
shift their mindset around this? Yeah, definitely. An easy one is to start to look at, okay, well,
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what area in your life do you really feel like this is affecting you? So whether it was your health,
whether it was your career or business, your relationships, that's also another big one
that I help people out with because it's affecting the boundaries that they set with people,
people pleasing because from that perfectionist mindset, we love people pleasing because it
(34:17):
makes us feel good. Yeah. So that's another big way. But anyway, back to your,
I'll probably then go off on a tangent on people pleasing. So maybe that could be for next time.
Yeah, I was going to say that is a whole other topic which will be so interesting to delve into.
Absolutely. And boundaries is another big one. So it's first of all,
(34:39):
just taking a few minutes out of your day to just, yeah, in a quiet place or maybe out for a walk
and not listening to music or not listening to a podcast, but also make sure you listen to this
podcast episode. Yeah, definitely do that. Yeah. But again, we love that feeling of being productive.
(35:00):
So going for a walk and listening to a podcast episode, it's like, oh my gosh, that is like
two for one here. I'm doing both things at once. So again, it makes us feel really accomplished.
Anyway, I've just gone off on a tangent again, but just yeah, go for a walk for 10 minutes or so
without any distractions and just start to really think about, okay, what area of my life do I feel
(35:24):
like I've got this really sort of fixed mindset in terms of that negative self-talk and I feel like
I've been wanting to improve on this area, but I just can't seem to break through. I just, no matter
what I do, I just, you know, I keep getting that pushback and keep having to like feel like I'm
(35:45):
starting over. So first of all, have a think about what area and then have a think about, okay, well,
when it comes to doing the thing that I want to do, what am I telling myself? Like, what are those
thoughts that come up? So for example, if you're, maybe you're really wanting to exercise in the
morning and you keep setting your alarm for 6am, but when it comes time to 6am, you ignore the
(36:11):
alarm, you push news, you don't get up and you miss that exercise session. So essentially, you've
let down that commitment to yourself. So it's figuring out, okay, well, what thoughts are going
on in my head when it comes to that time that I'm not following through on what I said I wanted to
do? Because remember, these are the plans that you're creating for yourself. Like no one's creating
(36:36):
them for you. No one's telling you you have to do these things. You're the one that said you wanted
to do it. So what's stopping you? So it's getting an understanding of what specifically is stopping
you from doing that. And that's simply being aware of what you're telling yourself when it comes to
crunch time. And of course, they can contact you as well as another simple strategy. Yeah, absolutely.
(37:03):
They recommend let's have that as the third strategy. Yeah, because like, how do you work
with people? Is it is a one on one thing or is it group based or how do you how do you support people?
I mostly support people through one on one coaching. So my signature program is a six week
one on one. And we have weekly calls. And then I'll also give you some homework to do in between.
(37:29):
And then we keep in contact throughout that week as well just to see how you're going.
But then I also have another program which is just being released at the moment. So it's about
for more of a self coaching perspective. So you working through things that I set to you.
But it's not specifically, yeah, having those one on one calls.
(37:52):
And you've got a podcast as well, right? Becoming your own best friend?
Because I'm a self. Yeah, become your own best friend. Yeah. So I have episodes
about understanding your mindset, understanding that negativity bias within your brain. Because
I don't think I mentioned that before, but that's something really important for people to understand
(38:14):
is our brain just naturally has that negativity bias. So it's going to want to go towards the
negative rather than the positive. And so it's about you finding ways to really work with that.
But also then without forcing yourself to be positive. Like this is not about you having to be
(38:34):
this perfectly positive person to get through life. It's just simply about understanding
how your negative self talk is affecting you and how we can make that work for you rather than
against you. I feel like there is so much more to cover off on this. I think I'm going to have
to come back, Abi. I agree. We're going to have to do a part two. But I do really want to thank
(39:00):
you so much for joining me today. And I'll pop all the links to your coaching and to your podcasts
in the show notes for everyone to be able to check you out. And I also want to say thank you to
everyone who has tuned in today for Creativity (39:14):
Uncovered. I really hope this episode has inspired
you just to do a little bit of self reflection and maybe to give you the courage to push through
any self doubt that may be creeping in. And as always, I really hope that it helps you summon
your creativity the next time that you need it. Thanks so much.
(39:37):
[Music]
(40:05):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (40:11):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my
amazing team here at Crisp Communications. And the music you just heard was composed by James
(40:31):
Gatling. If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to
unlock more creativity in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new
episode releases.
Uncovered. My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions and then how they use them
at home, work, play and everything in between. My goal for this podcast is that by the end
of it, you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to some creativity
(00:33):
the next time that you need it. Today, I am speaking with Kiara Johnson, who is a neuro
linguistic practitioner, hypnotherapist and health coach. Now in Kiara's line of work,
she basically helps people make changes in their lives, including new ways of thinking,
(00:53):
including their mindset and getting rid of limiting beliefs. These are all things that
I think you can agree are extremely relevant in when it comes to creativity. So, welcome, Kiara.
Hi, Abi. Thank you for having me. The pleasure is all mine. Now, Kiara, when I came across your
(01:14):
profile, it really stood out to me because the work that you do seems to be all about overcoming
self-doubt and making changes from the inside out. That's kind of what this podcast is all about.
It's about helping people push through whatever, stopping them from being creative,
(01:34):
and then start to build more creativity into their life. So, I mean, for you as a neuro
linguistic programmer, which is a mouthful, by the way. That's why I always say NLP. NLP, I'll
stick to that. Well, I mean, let's just start with, I mean, what is that? And then how do you
(01:59):
use it to help people achieve that? Yeah, absolutely. And it's a great question because it sounds fancy
and it sounds like a lot, but basically, I'm just trying to help people understand their language.
So, that's all it is, is essentially that brain communication. So, what we're telling ourselves
(02:19):
and how that actually affects our everyday life and our habits. Also, it's like managing your
self-talk, really. Yeah, correct. And that's a huge part of what I help my clients with is really
managing that negative self-talk. And it's not to all of a sudden become this extremely positive
person because that's not what it's about. We're human. We're meant to experience like a range of
(02:44):
emotions. But it's about when that negative self-talk actually stops you from doing the things that
you want to do. That's where I can come in and help. Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's kind of reframing it or
compartmentalizing it or what do you mean? Yeah, it is reframing it. Yeah, that's part of the thing.
(03:07):
But it's more about initially getting down to what's actually stopping that person from following
through on the things that they want to do. So, for example, from a creativity perspective,
if someone is constantly getting those creative blocks or they've been wanting to start this thing
(03:28):
and they're constantly almost like pushing up against a wall, like they just can't work out
why they can't just gain momentum and just continuously follow through, that's when that's
an example of there's something going on deep down. And when I work with those clients, it's about
(03:50):
essentially like peeling back the onion layers. That's how I explain it to my clients. We're just
trying to peel back those layers and figure out what is actually stopping you. Now, for a lot of
my clients that underlying limiting belief is that they don't feel good enough. They don't feel good
enough. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, like this kind of imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah, essentially. Yeah.
(04:17):
And sometimes it's just that we don't have the language or the awareness around what's actually
going on with us. So, for example, you might be procrastinating quite a lot on something and
you just can't understand why you're procrastinating. So, then you'll go and Google some motivation
advice because you think you have a motivation problem. And essentially, like from a shallow
(04:42):
perspective, it's motivation, but really underneath, you could be overthinking and
procrastinating because you've got that perfectionist mindset. Right. So, once you figure out
why people are stopping themselves from even starting, you give them sort of a plan to address
(05:02):
that? Yeah. So, we first of all uncover what's going on and start to work out, okay, well,
what really is the problem? And that can sometimes take a couple of sessions to figure that out. And
then, like you said before, about reframing the problem and reframing their language and then
(05:23):
actually working out, okay, what is it that you really want to do? And let's create a plan to help
you follow through with your plans because a lot of the time I find with my clients is that we're
breaking our own self-trust. So, we're not following through on the things that we said we were going
to do. So, we're breaking that commitment to ourselves. And you can imagine if you made a
(05:49):
commitment to somebody else and you kept letting that person down, what do you think they're going
to do? Stop trying, right? Anoint, stop trying. Exactly. And that's what's happening to us is
our brain is like, well, I know you're not going to follow through anyway. So, why even bother
setting these plans? Wow, okay. That's very interesting. So, I mean, who typically comes to
(06:17):
see you? So, initially, when I first started, I've come from a personal training background. So,
I've always worked one-on-one with clients, but just in a different way. And so, of course,
people were coming to see me because they wanted to lose weight. So, they thought, okay, if I can
just sort out this exercise problem and sort out this nutrition problem, then everything's
(06:40):
going to be great. Like, I will be fit, I'll be healthy, I won't have any problems losing weight.
But what I came to discover over the years of personal training is that it's not just about
the exercise. It's not just about the nutrition. It's about the way that you're approaching
those things. And that's what led me to think, okay, there's got to be another way to help people.
(07:04):
Like, because just writing them an exercise and nutrition program isn't working, because I'm not
there with them when they're at home making those choices. They're making that choice to drink that
bottle of wine instead of maybe having a cup of tea. And it's easy to say, oh, you know, just have a
(07:25):
glass of water or have a nice herbal tea instead of the wine. And that's a case of easier said than
done. It's because of the underlying belief that's leading that person to do that. Like, they're not
managing their stress and managing their self-talk. Wow, yeah. I mean, that's so true. It's,
(07:46):
you know, we all kind of know what you need to do to be healthy.
Yes. And quite often, we know what the right path is, is just so we don't have the motivation or
the inclination to actually do that. And so I guess you're right. Like, if you're giving someone
a plan for their fitness or a plan for, you know, reframing their self-talk,
(08:10):
you've also got to tap into why they want to do that as well. Otherwise, they're just not going
to commit to it. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So how do you tap into finding people's motivation for that?
Yeah. And motivation, it's funny that you bring that up because I think I mentioned that before,
(08:30):
as we always think that motivation is the problem. It's like, oh, if I could just get motivated enough,
I would be able to finish that creative project or I would be able to exercise consistently. I'd
be able to eat really well. It's just because I'm not motivated and I don't know how to get motivated.
That's often what clients are coming to me about. But when we get down to it, it's not the motivation
(09:00):
that's the problem. And then if we find ourselves just following that sort of generic motivation
advice, then we're not really dealing with that root cause. So yeah, it's about dealing with that
root cause, helping the client reframe and really helping people build self-trust. Because I think
(09:22):
that's something that we don't realize that disappears is when with creativity is if we're
wanting to do this project and we keep letting ourselves down, is then we get to the point
where it's like, why even bother? Because I know I'm not going to follow through anyway.
Yeah, wow. It's kind of like this self-fulfilling prophecy.
(09:47):
Absolutely. So that's my job is to help break that cycle.
Wow. And you mentioned perfectionism before. And when we spoke a couple of weeks ago,
a couple of weeks ago, we had a really great chat about creativity and perfectionism.
(10:07):
And what was really interesting to me was that we kind of all think that perfectionism is one of
these things. You're like, oh, I'm a Gold Star student. I'm such a perfectionist. And it's kind
of a good thing. But you sort of were saying that sometimes it's not a good thing. It's not
necessarily a good thing. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yeah, sure. And I've only come
(10:30):
to discover this in the last couple of years as well. And it's about how we can actually use that
mindset to our advantage rather than it being a disadvantage for us. So let's go back to say,
for example, when we're in school or university or college, if you've got that kind of perfectionist
(10:54):
mindset, it's about you wanting to get that Gold Star, for example, or you wanting to get that
good grade. And it doesn't matter essentially about the effort that you put in, like you could
just do things at the last minute. And some people say, oh, you know, I performed better at the last
minute. But it's almost like as long as you just do what you need to do to get that grade,
(11:16):
then you feel good enough. Because it's like, okay, yes, I've got the good grade. Like I feel good
enough now. And so we're constantly trying to get that validation. But then what happens is we get
out of that school system and we go into employment. Now, as our listeners, sorry, your listeners might
be aware is that, you know, we're not constantly getting that Gold Star in appointment, like you
(11:42):
need to show up, you need to do your job, you get paid, like that's your Gold Star is, you know,
you're getting paid. And of course, you might get promoted, but those things aren't happening all of
the time. And so it's almost like we lose ourselves because we're not constantly getting that
validation. Right. And that's where we get caught up in, if you start to then, it doesn't really
(12:08):
pop up in employment, but rather if you, when it comes to starting your own business, or having
your own creativity project, this is where that perfection is a mindset. Or what we also know
it as the fixed mindset is that's where it can catch us off. And that's where sometimes
the overthinking, the procrastinating, that kind of all or nothing mindset, you do everything
(12:34):
perfectly, or you don't do it at all. And that's where for me, particularly it started to show up
again, is when I started my own business, I found myself overthinking just really basic things.
For example, my website, I would spend hours upon hours upon hours trying to find the right words,
(12:56):
trying to find the right graphics, the right colors, because I just thought, if I can have this
looking perfect, then people would take me seriously. I can't show up with this kind of
half-assed website because then people will think I'm not professional enough. So I need to make
sure that my social media posts, like everything looks good so that I can come across as being
(13:24):
good enough to people. Yeah, wow. I mean, I definitely empathize with you when that's
it. And so you recognize in yourself, how did you break through that? Yeah, and an important
component to understand here is that I wasn't consciously thinking, if I can just look perfect,
(13:46):
then people would take me seriously. This was a very subconscious belief. And this is what
Brene Brown talks about in her work with shame and vulnerability. She describes perfectionism in a way
that I've never heard before and really helped me to understand. So her kind of definition of it is
(14:07):
saying that if I just looked perfect and do something perfectly, then I can avoid or minimize
those feelings of shame and judgment. And that's what it comes down to is really what I understood
is that I just had a fear of judgment. I feared that if I put myself out there, that people would
(14:31):
then judge me and that worst case scenario of thinking you put a social media post up and
people write negative comments about it, for example, or like a podcast episode, people send you a DM
and go, "That episode was terrible. What were you thinking putting that out into the world?"
Yeah, wow. And this feels real. It feels like it's extremely real and it can be very debilitating
(15:00):
for some people. Oh, yeah. I can imagine if you are overthinking about all the what ifs,
especially all the negative what ifs, you just wouldn't, you'd be stopped in your tracks really
and you wouldn't do anything. Yes. Yeah. So sometimes we can overcome it with smaller things.
(15:22):
And that's why I said with employment before, is that this kind of fixed perfectionism mindset
doesn't affect us as much when we're working for somebody else because we've got something to hide
behind. We've got something or someone essentially to blame if we ever get judged. But when we're out
on our own, say for example, in our own business doing our own creative work, it's all you. So
(15:49):
there's no shield to hide behind. You are just out into the world and you're vulnerable.
Yeah. Wow. I can imagine it'd be the same with a team-based sport versus a very singular sport,
like tennis or golf or something like that. Whereas it would be, you feel so much more
(16:12):
exposed if you are the only person performing, you have no one else to blame. Things don't go right.
Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's not consciously you want to blame someone,
but subconsciously it's like having that shield, like that protective mechanism. Whereas when you're
(16:32):
out on your own, you feel like there's no protective mechanism. And then that will show up as procrastinating,
overthinking and just not putting things out there, like not putting your creative projects out there.
Yeah. Wow. So is that typically how it manifests for people? Is that what it looks like in a
practical sense? That overthinking, just not starting or finishing a project? Or are there
(16:59):
other ways that people might be able to recognise in themselves that this might be happening to them?
Yeah. And where I first picked this up is from my background with personal training. It might be,
say for example, you want to do the six-week program or the six-week challenge. And you'll do
the first one to two weeks perfectly. You will make time to go to the gym three to five times or
(17:24):
however much you set yourself. You'll follow your nutrition plan down to a T, like it. You'll be
following this perfectly. And then suddenly, things, life starts to happen. Now, life was
always happening those last couple of weeks, but you prioritised that nutrition plan and that exercise
(17:45):
plan. And as I said, you did it perfectly, but then things got in the way and then suddenly
you couldn't follow it perfectly. Like you almost missed that streak. Sometimes when we're looking
at habits, we talk about getting this streak. And for that perfectionist mindset, missing that streak
(18:05):
is horrible. It feels like you've failed essentially. And failing for a perfectionist
is like one of the worst things that could happen because it feels like it's an attack on
your self-worth. And that's where you attach it to not feeling good enough because you feel like
(18:26):
you've failed. So then in that mindset, what tends to happen is, for example, you'll stop all together
because you're like, well, okay, if I can't do this perfectly, then there's no point doing it at all.
And so you'll stop that program, for example. And then maybe you'll restart it again. But
say if you were two weeks into that program, instead of just continuing on, like a week later,
(18:51):
just continuing on from say week three, what you'll do is start back at week one,
because you need to get it all perfect. And it needs to be in a line and you need to make sure
that you follow through with every session perfectly. Right. So you sort of default back to
what is easier and you already know that you can achieve. Yes. Is that to gain that sort of
(19:18):
sense of accomplishment and sense of self again to go, oh, I'm going to go back to week one. I'm
going to do all those things, because I know I can do those. Is that to help sort of like boost
you up a bit, do you think? Yeah. And it's just wanting to get things done. Like there's no way
you could just start back at week three after having a week's break. Like for that fixed,
(19:40):
perfections mindset, that's just not an option. Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying that, I was sort of
thinking about this person I used to work with, it was supposed to be in a very kind of strategic
role. But when staff got crazy and things were stressful and stuff, they would default back to
all these weird little busy tasks or easy tasks that we're in someone else's kind of remit.
(20:07):
Because I'm guessing now because they were like, oh, I know how to do that.
And they were able to achieve that. And then I guess maybe was that their way of getting themselves
back on track to try and tackle the harder things, do you think? Yeah. You bring up a really good
point there. And it's so funny that you mentioned the word busy work, because from a fixed mindset
(20:33):
and a perfectionist mindset, we absolutely love busy work because it makes us feel productive.
And from a perfectionist perspective, you want to feel productive. Like you want to feel like
you're doing things and contributing, but you're never doing the hard things that force you to
(20:53):
grow and make you be vulnerable. So for example, what that can look like from a creative perspective
is, let's say for me, for example, when I was working on my Pinterest strategy, it would be
finding that perfect way to make my Pinterest graphics look good. Now, that's not going to
make my business grow. That's not going to get me clients. But the thing is it made me feel productive.
(21:21):
So I would spend all my time doing that. And it's like at the end of the week, oh, gosh,
I've been so busy this week, because we're really attached to being busy. Like being productive
and being busy is absolutely like that makes us feel good to be able to say that. Rather than
essentially working less, but only working on the important tasks that actually put you out there,
(21:48):
that feels really hard. Yeah, absolutely. I think certainly I will, I recognize myself doing that
too, saying about, you know, getting into the nitty-gritty of your graphics and not focusing
on a strategy. It is hard because trying to engage yourself into that strategic thinking
(22:13):
and what it means to have the strategy, that's the stuff that will make or break your business.
It's scary to work on it knowing that potentially it may not work. And so I guess that's why you
avoid it, right? Absolutely. And then along with that becomes that self-trust. It's you yourself
(22:34):
knowing what things are going to move your business forward and having that trust in yourself that
if you set yourself that task that you're going to follow through with it. But what happens is
when we're in that really fixed mindset, we'll kind of set that task and it'll come time to do
that task. And then we find all the excuses in the world not to do that task. And we end up doing
(23:01):
all that busy work because we say, oh, we're too busy to do that thing. That thing, that scary thing,
we're too busy to do that because you're so caught up doing all that busy work that really,
if you look at it, it doesn't matter. Like that's not the thing. Like choosing the right colours
for your Pinterest graphic is not going to move your business forward.
(23:24):
Yeah, it's nice and it's fun, but probably not the best use of time.
Absolutely. But it serves the purpose and the fact that it makes us feel productive because it
feels like it's important work. And this is why I never liked that saying done is better than perfect.
I just found that like I didn't resonate with that at all because I'm like, no, but I need it to be
(23:50):
perfect. Like I can't put something out there that doesn't look good and doesn't look professional
because people will think I'm some fraud. And so having a saying like that, it that's saying,
yeah, done is better than perfect. It's like, oh, yeah, okay, cool. I guess I'll do. But it's like
practically how does that, how do you actually live by that, that whole idea of done is better
(24:16):
than perfect. And it's about then getting to the reason why you feel the need to make things
quote unquote perfect. Yeah, well, I mean, as you're saying that, that is filling with me with dread
because done is better than perfect. I don't know. I guess it probably goes back to as we were talking
(24:39):
about before, you know, being a business owner, everything you put out there is a direct reflection
of you. And your, I suppose your worth, your value. It feels terrifying to just go, I'll put it out
there even if it's not your best because it's, I guess, a journey. It's an iterative thing.
(25:02):
But that fills me with such dread. But I know what you're talking about.
Yeah. And that's why it's like, it's not the best advice really for someone that's stuck in that
mindset because it doesn't help you and it doesn't help address that. So that's why it's about looking
at, okay, why do I feel the need to have everything perfect? Like what is going on? Yeah, because the
(25:26):
thing is, like you can put something out there that's really good. It's not saying that it's more
about the fact that you feel the need to spend hours upon hours on something that could have been
done in 30 minutes and could have been done really well in 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like too
big of a jump for someone who's in that perfectionist mindset. Just to be like, just done is better
(25:52):
than perfect. It seems like way too much of a leap. I feel like you'd need to, there's some type of
middle ground, like you said, that it should still be good, but it doesn't have to be perfect.
Yes. But that, we're not going to understand that and not going to comprehend that because
the real reason why we feel that way is because we fear getting judged. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So by
(26:18):
saying, oh, just put something out there, even if it's not perfect, doesn't matter. No, it does
matter. In my mind, it does matter. I don't care what you say. Yeah. Essentially is, yeah, what's
going on for some people that are stuck in that mindset. And the important thing to recognize is
(26:39):
that just doesn't then have to be who you are. It's all it is, is it's just a set of beliefs,
which essentially is protecting you or it's almost like to help avoid that shame.
But this doesn't have to be a bad thing or a negative thing or anything. It's just about you
(26:59):
working out the best way that's going to work for you, rather than trying to follow all this generic
advice. So say, for example, for a habit, you know, if I think like James Clear mentioned is in his
habit book, Atomic Habits. Oh, yes, Atomic Habits. And everyone talks about this book,
(27:22):
which is fantastic, but he talks about a streak and about not sort of missing a day on something.
But again, from that perfectionist point of view is we, we, when we try and focus on that streak,
that's what really draws in that mindset. And it works negatively against you rather than
(27:45):
working with you. So it's about finding ways that you can build habits in a way that's going to
work for you and support that mindset, rather than trying to, like I said, follow generic advice.
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. Because as you're saying that, I'm just thinking about there's so much
(28:06):
marketing and like the gamification of products and services is it's all about that streak.
And you've got to keep logging in every day, like for example, my family obsessed with Duolingo,
they're learning, my mother's learning Swahili for some reason, by the branch in German and whatever.
(28:29):
And the whole premise of Duolingo is these streaks you have to log in every day, you have to do
yourself every day, and you get points for doing that. And as soon as you miss one,
there's all these consequences. I don't know, you lose points, everyone in your group gets told
that you've lost your streak. And there's, there's like so much shame in that, that I've seen, I've
(28:50):
been over and, you know, been at my parents' house and it's five minutes to midnight and they're like,
oh my gosh, I haven't done my daily streak or whatever it is. And they are
frantically finishing off their little lesson for the day because they're worried about
all these negative consequences that come in this app that's really kind of inconsequential.
(29:13):
Yeah. And it's, it really is playing on people's perfectionism.
And if you are really caught up in that mindset, that is going to be something that will really
bring on that shame. Whereas if you say, for example, you were in the growth mindset about
(29:33):
the thing that you're doing, because we can be in like a fixed or growth mindset in different
areas of our life, like relationships, finances, career, work, you know, so in health was the
other area I was thinking. So you can be in different mindsets about different habits,
depending on, you know, how you think about them. But with something like that, if that was to do
(29:57):
with like business or health or something, and there was all this shame brought upon by missing
a streak, like you, for example, had someone telling you off if you didn't show up for an
exercise session. For some people, yes, that may work and that's great. But for other people,
that would just send them into a negative spiral of, I knew I couldn't do this. I knew I wasn't
(30:22):
good enough to follow through and so on and so on. Yeah. Yeah. And I've missed it now. I can't
possibly catch up. So there's no point trying. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, well, I already
failed once. So why would I put myself out there again? So now, like knowing about
perfectionism and how can we work with it to get the best possible results? Because you're
(30:48):
never going to get rid of it 100%, right? I suppose you're just going to try and use it to your
advantage. Absolutely. And getting rid of it is not really the goal. It's not
helpful. It's more about learning how to work with your brain and with your mindset and understanding
like what makes you tick? How do you work best? And then we talk about, say, for example,
(31:13):
routines. Some people work really well at night time and other people work really well in the
morning. But it's like society will tell you and all these books that will tell you, get up in the
morning and do your workouts and everything in the morning because that's going to set you up for
success. Yes, that's great advice. But for some people, that may not work. And so it's about
(31:38):
really understanding yourself and having the awareness of where is your negative self-talk
letting you down? Where is it really holding you back from the things that you want to do?
So firstly, getting that understanding of yourself. And then, as I said, you can really then design
(31:58):
your life and help create habits in your life that are going to work with you. And that includes
like planning in a way that is going to work with your mindset rather than against it. So for example,
a to-do list is like perfectionist and that fixed mindset like a to-do list is the worst way that
(32:20):
you can work because you're constantly adding to it. And then you're always going to choose
that busy work like you're not then identifying what's really going to move the needle with your
health or with your business, whatever it is that you're trying to work on. And then we also want
to try and work on all these things like we want to start meditating every day. We want to start
(32:44):
journaling every day. We want to start exercising, but then we want to work on our business. But then
we also want to read this book and then we also want to do this creative task. So it's just like
a to-do list is just not a great way to work if you're in that mindset.
Yeah, I've definitely seen people who love to do this. When they complete something that's not
(33:07):
on the list, they'll write it on the list just so they can check it off again.
Absolutely. And we want the pretty planner to go with it as well. We need that perfect calendar,
that perfect planner. And if it's messy, we need to buy a new one. And yeah, it's just again,
but it feels productive and it feels responsible to be doing those things. And
(33:30):
someone is probably not realising that that's actually working against them.
Yeah, wow. So do you have any tips or strategies for people to start to
shift their mindset around this? Yeah, definitely. An easy one is to start to look at, okay, well,
(33:53):
what area in your life do you really feel like this is affecting you? So whether it was your health,
whether it was your career or business, your relationships, that's also another big one
that I help people out with because it's affecting the boundaries that they set with people,
people pleasing because from that perfectionist mindset, we love people pleasing because it
(34:17):
makes us feel good. Yeah. So that's another big way. But anyway, back to your,
I'll probably then go off on a tangent on people pleasing. So maybe that could be for next time.
Yeah, I was going to say that is a whole other topic which will be so interesting to delve into.
Absolutely. And boundaries is another big one. So it's first of all,
(34:39):
just taking a few minutes out of your day to just, yeah, in a quiet place or maybe out for a walk
and not listening to music or not listening to a podcast, but also make sure you listen to this
podcast episode. Yeah, definitely do that. Yeah. But again, we love that feeling of being productive.
(35:00):
So going for a walk and listening to a podcast episode, it's like, oh my gosh, that is like
two for one here. I'm doing both things at once. So again, it makes us feel really accomplished.
Anyway, I've just gone off on a tangent again, but just yeah, go for a walk for 10 minutes or so
without any distractions and just start to really think about, okay, what area of my life do I feel
(35:24):
like I've got this really sort of fixed mindset in terms of that negative self-talk and I feel like
I've been wanting to improve on this area, but I just can't seem to break through. I just, no matter
what I do, I just, you know, I keep getting that pushback and keep having to like feel like I'm
(35:45):
starting over. So first of all, have a think about what area and then have a think about, okay, well,
when it comes to doing the thing that I want to do, what am I telling myself? Like, what are those
thoughts that come up? So for example, if you're, maybe you're really wanting to exercise in the
morning and you keep setting your alarm for 6am, but when it comes time to 6am, you ignore the
(36:11):
alarm, you push news, you don't get up and you miss that exercise session. So essentially, you've
let down that commitment to yourself. So it's figuring out, okay, well, what thoughts are going
on in my head when it comes to that time that I'm not following through on what I said I wanted to
do? Because remember, these are the plans that you're creating for yourself. Like no one's creating
(36:36):
them for you. No one's telling you you have to do these things. You're the one that said you wanted
to do it. So what's stopping you? So it's getting an understanding of what specifically is stopping
you from doing that. And that's simply being aware of what you're telling yourself when it comes to
crunch time. And of course, they can contact you as well as another simple strategy. Yeah, absolutely.
(37:03):
They recommend let's have that as the third strategy. Yeah, because like, how do you work
with people? Is it is a one on one thing or is it group based or how do you how do you support people?
I mostly support people through one on one coaching. So my signature program is a six week
one on one. And we have weekly calls. And then I'll also give you some homework to do in between.
(37:29):
And then we keep in contact throughout that week as well just to see how you're going.
But then I also have another program which is just being released at the moment. So it's about
for more of a self coaching perspective. So you working through things that I set to you.
But it's not specifically, yeah, having those one on one calls.
(37:52):
And you've got a podcast as well, right? Becoming your own best friend?
Because I'm a self. Yeah, become your own best friend. Yeah. So I have episodes
about understanding your mindset, understanding that negativity bias within your brain. Because
I don't think I mentioned that before, but that's something really important for people to understand
(38:14):
is our brain just naturally has that negativity bias. So it's going to want to go towards the
negative rather than the positive. And so it's about you finding ways to really work with that.
But also then without forcing yourself to be positive. Like this is not about you having to be
(38:34):
this perfectly positive person to get through life. It's just simply about understanding
how your negative self talk is affecting you and how we can make that work for you rather than
against you. I feel like there is so much more to cover off on this. I think I'm going to have
to come back, Abi. I agree. We're going to have to do a part two. But I do really want to thank
(39:00):
you so much for joining me today. And I'll pop all the links to your coaching and to your podcasts
in the show notes for everyone to be able to check you out. And I also want to say thank you to
everyone who has tuned in today for Creativity (39:14):
Uncovered. I really hope this episode has inspired
you just to do a little bit of self reflection and maybe to give you the courage to push through
any self doubt that may be creeping in. And as always, I really hope that it helps you summon
your creativity the next time that you need it. Thanks so much.
(39:37):
[Music]
(40:05):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (40:11):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people.
And we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my
amazing team here at Crisp Communications. And the music you just heard was composed by James
(40:31):
Gatling. If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to
unlock more creativity in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new
episode releases.
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