October 23, 2023 • 39 mins
A cancer diagnosis was the wake-up call that UK artist Clare Morgan needed to get back into creating art on her own terms.
Now Clare sings the praises of saying “yes” to new opportunities and staying curious, as means of unlocking new levels of creative inspiration. Starting with tapestry weaving and ending up in an improv group, this mindset has taken Clare on new creative adventures that she previously could only have imagined.
Clare shares her journey, learnings and her advice for helping others re-find their creativity.
Happy listening!
xo Abi
Ps. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/say-yes-and-stay-curious
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:00):
Uncovered. My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions and how they use them at
home, work, play and everything in between. And as always, my goal for this podcast is that by the
end of it, you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the
(00:35):
next time you need it. Today, I am speaking to Clare Morgan, who is a UK based fine artist who
specializes in line-cut printmaking. And Clare has a really interesting journey and relationship
with her creativity. And I really think that her story will be really helpful to any of our listeners
(01:00):
today who are just feeling a little lost and want to find their way back into the creative space.
So thank you for joining me, Clare. Hi, good morning. Thank you for having me, Abi.
I certainly appreciate you joining me because you are based in the UK, complete time difference,
we're sort of on opposite schedules at the moment. Yeah, which is fine because I'm an
(01:21):
absolute morning person. So this is good for me. I like function on all cylinders in the morning,
but like, if you ever catch me in the afternoon, it's a different story.
And actually, like, that's an important thing is with creativity or, you know, any sort of work
is kind of knowing how you function, right? And best time of the day and best environment and
things like that. So it's good to know that you're aware of that for yourself. So Clare,
(01:47):
I sort of mentioned it before, but, you know, you're now a fine artist and you spend your days
creating beautiful artwork and gifts. But, you know, we spoke previously. And you let me know
that for many years that actually wasn't always the case. So like this kick this off by sort of
talking about a little bit about your story and your relationship with creativity.
(02:13):
Yeah, so art, I mean, art has always been with me. So even when I wasn't creating, I was working as
an art teacher. So it's, honestly, I feel like I live and breathe art and always have done my
very first memory of doing any art at all was when I was really small. And you know, you get
your coloring books and you're really proud of what you're doing, you show your parents. And I
(02:36):
decided that in all my coloring books, I was going to color the lines rather than filling in all of
the gaps. And that was how I was going to approach it. That was kind of my way. And I remember
just like, and people saying, why don't you just color the whole thing? And I was going, no, no,
that's, I like it that way. And I think I was quite set and doing and doing things my own way
early on. I think that's because there's children, children and naturally creative, naturally
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curious, we don't have loads of baggage attached to it. But as we start going, getting a bit older,
there's more shoulds going in there. And people telling you how this thing should be done and
expectations. And, and unfortunately, I think we lose that over time as we grow up a bit. And
even, even though I was good at art, and that was something that was recognized, I still went
(03:28):
through my training and felt actually like I'd lost creativity. I think people assume that if
you are good at art, that means creativity comes with it. But it doesn't necessarily because
rules came back in. And I had, I mean, my art teacher was brilliant. But the training was very
formal. And it was how things look. It was photo realism. It was that sort of level of everything
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having to be perfect. So the breaking of the rules became very difficult for me.
Wow, sort of like prescribed creativity was kind of hemming me a little.
And it, I mean, it was good training to have and I value it now because a lot of those skills do
help me with the type of work that I create, but it's probably shaped the type of work that I
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create as well. And then leaving school, and I went to college and they, that was kind of my
first experience of something that I'll come to talk about probably a little bit more about this
idea of removing that expectation. But the first lesson in there, they took our pencils away,
took our paintbrushes away, they gave us sticks, emulsion and ink. And then they just said, look,
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we're just removing all of the things that you're familiar with, and you're going to create in
this new way. And actually that unlocked that creativity again. And I think a tip for anybody
actually, if you're struggling just, and particularly if you're an artist, it's maybe got
these perfectionist tendencies to do something novel, like draw with your left hand and draw,
(05:01):
do something different, like novelties really key. And that can help push you back into the
creativity. And then I continued to study art, went and studied at university, and I went into
teaching. And that's where my journey started to change slightly. I started to progress in my
teaching career, and went into school leadership, which took me out of the classroom a bit more,
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but also dominated a lot of my time and a lot of my brain space as well, outside. So at that
point, I slowly started creating less and less until the point that I wasn't creating at all.
And, yes, I was in the classroom, but even that was was very different, just because of the other
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roles that I had. And so I was doing that for a few years. And you sort of feel like something
felt like something was missing, I knew something must have been missing, because I was
started to go to Buddhist talks and spiritual stuff and just trying to find this thing that was
missing, without actually connecting the dots that was my creativity. And then I started to become
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quite unwell. I didn't know why I was having repeated infections and get lost my voice. And
it started to impact my work. And I was ill for quite a long time before I realized what was
happening. And I actually went to work one day, feeling quite poorly, because at that point,
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I was so poorly, I was going to work even if I wasn't feeling great.
It became the new start.
Yeah, it was, you don't notice it creeps up on you over time. You just think, oh, everyone, you
know, I don't know, you just assumed it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I knew I wasn't okay, because I was
going to the doctors repeatedly, but just not getting answers. Then this particular time, I
(06:52):
did an examination and he said, oh, like, your liver and your spleen are like huge. And you're
also tachycardic and you're also running to temperature. And I think they thought it might
have been sepsis at that particular point. They sent me to hospital. The hospital kept me for two
weeks. And during that two weeks, I was like, this obviously something wrong. I've got all these
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medical students coming to look at my massive liver because it's like, and I'm thinking, oh my
God, what's like what's going on? And then during that time, they discovered I'd got an non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma, something called peripheral T cell non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a really rare one,
which is why it's hard to pick up because everything that was wrong, you could put down to
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other things like in the end, I've got like itchy legs and that's, you know, the doctor would say,
oh, it must be the washing powder that you're using. So you'd like change that or I was losing
weight, but I was also going to the gym at five o'clock every morning thinking, oh, if I just go
to the gym and get fit, I'm going to feel better. And then it was all these sort of signs that I
(08:01):
never put together, but I didn't have like the swollen lymph nodes that you'd expect. It was
more like these subtler like infections, itchy limbs. Eventually I got the bigger symptoms like
night sweats and stuff. I also had an immune disorder, which is why I had the infections and
probably kind of linked to the cancer. So at that point, that's like that kind of, you're going
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about your life trying to sort of figure things out, you've got everything kind of planned ahead.
It's almost like somebody just pulls the rug from underneath you and at that point, nothing else
actually matters anymore. It's just actually dealing with it, getting better. It was part
shock, but also part relief because I knew what was happening. I knew that actually I wasn't
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well, but there's something I could do about it.
A bit more clarity for you.
Yeah, it did. The doctor had said, well, the consultant had said, you, it's, it's stage four.
So when they did a PET scan, I like, they like fill you with radiation. It's bizarre, but they
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scan you and I just lit up like a Christmas tree. I was like, oh my God, it's, it's literally
everywhere. It's in my bones. It's in my liver. My split like just crazy. But they said I could
start off with chemo and if I could, if I could get rid of, rid of it with chemo, then I could
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have hopefully, well, they don't tell you everything. They don't tell you everything
only one go. They give you like steps. So they tell you a bit and then you go through that bit
and then they'll tell you the next bit. So they take you through it really well. And I ended up
having a stem cell transplant in the end because my treatment took quite a long time and it was
quite invasive treatment, especially with a stem cell transplant. It meant I had quite a bit of
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time to recover and I was off work for quite a bit of time as well. So I ended up with this period
of time post transplant where I knew I was going to be going back to work. Couldn't, couldn't go
back then because I was still recovering. And it gave me this window. So I started to call it
my sabbatical essentially. Nice refining. Yeah, I was like, this is my sabbatical. This is like
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some time. Do you know what? I haven't had my whole life. I have never had a period of time where
I can just focus on like what I want to develop and focus on me. So I used it and I started to,
I wanted to get back into my creativity again. But this is the time I need to get that back.
But I was in a strange position having done our and having these expectations around what I
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should be able to create. There was a fear there. There was like baggage there that actually if I
start making it's going to have to be like really good. I had these crazy expectations. So I thought
well, as good as you were prior to teaching or yeah, yeah. Because when you teach, I think I felt
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like, because I teach 11 to 18 years, I do teach six one, but I feel like this, this,
I felt like the stuff that I was creating, I had this like school energy to it like, I don't know,
it didn't feel mine. So it was kind of being able to let go of that and step out of it, find my own
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voice again. But I actually did it in an interesting way. So I decided to do tapestry weaving,
because it was something new novel. I have no expectations around it. No one's expecting
me to be good at it. It's a way of engaging my creative brain in a completely new way that I
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just don't, I could approach it fresh. I could approach it essentially with a beginner's mind,
I would say. Yeah. So you've never done tapestry in the past at all?
No, never. And it's not, I mean, it's not something I do now, but I have the tapestry that I made
in my artist studio now, because I look at it to remind myself that actually, if you are struggling,
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just find the novelty or find something new. Yeah.
And push your boundaries that way. And then from that, I then went into portrait drawing and started
to draw from sitters. And then I became obsessed with people because actually, through all of my
experiences, I think I started to just really appreciate kind of other humans and other people's
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stories. And I became intrigued by the fact that we never really know what anyone else is going
through and that we should be living with this kindness. And it was kind of just, I was just
obsessed with being human, being here, kind of trying to get stories across through the art.
So that kind of led me into, because I do a lot of portraiture in my artwork now.
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So yeah, that's how I kind of got back into it, which I'm really grateful for.
Wow. Wow. I mean, it's obviously going through that illness and that experience was not
the most amazing thing in your life. But it is interesting that it's contributed to you
looking at trying to find more creativity again, and your own personal creativity. That's very
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interesting. Yeah, because I think that also links to a sense of purpose as well. Because I think
after something like that, you think, well, what am I actually here for? What am I on this planet for?
And previously, all of my creativity, all of my energies were going into somebody else's vision
and somebody else's agenda, and I was completely replaceable. I step out of that role, someone
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else steps into that role, they have the ability to shift that vision. I channeled my creativity
into building policies, whereas actually, now I channel my creativity into something that's mine,
there's no, like my artwork is mine. I'm creating it and putting it out into the world. Nobody
else is going to step into my shoes and change it or tweak it or alter it. It's, I feel like I'm
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putting an investment into something that I'm leaving behind, like, I don't know, like,
like a legacy or something. It's what I'm going to believe in here. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what attracts
you to creativity? Is that being able to express what is truly you and leaving a legacy? Or like,
what is it about creativity or art that attracts you? I think it's to do with the connections
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that it brings actually more than anything else. The fact that I make art and put it out into the
world, but that isn't the whole story. I don't think art is all about the artist. I think,
like my art teacher always used to say, everyone brings their own baggage to a piece of artwork.
That's so true. If you find a piece of art that connects with you as a viewer, as like somebody
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observe in the artwork, do you see something that connects to you? It's because you're connecting
with it because of your own baggage, your own story, your own journey. And I love the fact
that I can put that piece out there and somebody will form that connection with it and will have
their own story with it. And it'll invoke that kind of emotional energy. And I've been at so many
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exhibitions and shows where people have picked up a piece of artwork and they'll say, this really
reminds me of this relationship I had, or this really reminds me of this moment in time when
I had this struggle. I mean, often without me saying anything about my story, often people who
have had really challenging times in their lives. Those are the people that are connecting with the
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work and choosing the work. And I don't think that's happening by accident. I think that's
something in it, whether it's the colour or the imagery or the emotion in the portraits,
there's something happening there that I think is just incredibly magical and it's such a privilege
to be able to make things that do that for another human being that I couldn't think of a better
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reason to create. Yeah. Oh, that's, I mean, that's amazing. I know that there's that sort of saying
like the author is dead. So, you know, whatever intent there is when you're writing a piece,
someone else is going to come in and bring their own lens to it and their own baggage,
as you said, and make their own spin on it all and their own interpretation. But it's interesting
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how people are able to do that, but also kind of tap into exactly what you had put into it.
Yeah. And I think it's because it kind of follows the work kind of follows a bit of a pattern.
Like it's because it, I don't think art should be static. I don't think an artist should be
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creating the same thing all of the time because actually we grow and develop as humans,
grow and develop as artists, the world around us, changes and shifts. So the work did follow this
flow of my recovery. So at the very beginning, all of my figures were falling because it was a
visual representation of having the report from Undyoo and being in freefall. But they weren't
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dark images. They were so colorful. And there was a vibrancy and an energy in them because
actually that I wanted to embrace that uncertainty or encourage other people to embrace that
uncertainty. Then they kind of flowed into these figures that were really strong sort of circus
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performers, aerial acrobats that I was documenting. But I would fragment them so they were made up of
little pieces and all those little pieces that they were made up of. That was kind of looking at the
idea of strength from coming out of being broken actually all as we go through our experiences
and we get all of these different cracks and challenges that actually they make us more,
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like a lot stronger. And then they moved into more mindful figures. And now my work is portraits and
it's all about the seasons and connecting with nature and trying to go with the flow a little bit
more. I think everything I make is I learned so much during that time of my life. And we do get
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stuck in the business of the real world again. I do not want to forget those things. I do not want
like the universe sending me another message. I'm like, yes, thank you. I got it. I'm gonna
keep reinforcing it to myself. That's cool. And just because I mean I'm not, I make work about
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mindfulness and I make work about like the affirmations and reminders because I need it because
I'm not perfect at that. I do sometimes go a million miles an hour and don't take that time out.
So I need to just constantly have that in my life. And if I can present that to other people and
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other people can take stuff from that as well, then that's just that's an absolute bonus.
So do you think that do you think that all art needs to have meaning?
That's a really interesting question. I think there are so many humans in this world
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and there are some people that you will talk to and actually for them,
they artwork that they have maybe it is a piece of interior design and they just simply want it
because it matches the colour of their room or like it finishes something off and they're looking,
I mean to be fair that creates the whole feeling of the space which you could say
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taps into emotion even if they haven't necessarily connected with that piece in a certain way.
And I think that's still valid. But I think and because it not everybody gets this,
not everybody relates to art in this way and that's absolutely fine. But there are,
there are some humans like that that's where they find their thing. So some people it'll be music
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like you put that music on and it will alter your mood, it will change how you feel in like
art can be the same way for other people. So I have art in my home and there are some pieces
that I've bought just because actually they're visually interesting and I may be like the colour
but there are other pieces I've got because there's a story and a feeling it makes me feel
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a certain way. Even myself I've got, I'm on a spectrum of that. No, I think that there are
so many humans in the world and so many pieces of art in the world. I don't think it has to,
I don't think anything has to be anything actually. Yeah, because you don't like the rules.
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I don't like the rules. I think it could be whatever it wants to be.
Yeah, yes. Because yeah, I think that's always interesting. It's, I think when people try and
assign like just a nominal meaning to something for me that's kind of worse and just going,
oh, it has no meaning. It's purely disasetic and it's pretty and I like it. Because I think that
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could be a thing. Yeah, that could be the thing. It's actually, do you know what? It's because I
like it. That is actually still coming from a place of emotion because it's, it's creating
emotion in them to drive them to make that peace. And actually a person like, do you know what? Maybe,
maybe that's not the right question actually. Maybe or the right way of thinking about it.
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If you choose something, there is emotion attached because there has to be. Simple as that. Because
you like it. Yeah. That's it. As long as you're cognizant when you're doing the,
making the decision. Yeah. Then there's some type of thought process that goes through it and thus
therefore an emotion that goes through it as well. Absolutely. I love that. I love that.
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And I mean, just jumping back before you said something that was really interesting.
When you were talking about, you know, you'd sort of had gone through the teacher process and kind
of your expression of your true artistic self was kind of being diminished along the way.
And you were scared to jump back into that again. And so you, you went through the tapestry
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because of the beginner's mindset. Tell me what is the beginner's mindset? I was intrigued by that,
but I'll come back to that point later. Now that time. So beginner's mindset is Zen Buddhist
principle, which is about engaging with the world with no preconceived ideas and seeing things for
the first time with their complete curiosity. The idea is obviously if we are needing to be an
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expert at things and we've got lots of knowledge, that can actually be an obstacle to our creativity
and our curiosity. Because it just shuts down our curiosity. I mean, to me, I would say that
curiosity, well, creativity, I should say is curiosity at play. I think creativity is an
expression of our curiosity. And that's how I kind of view it. So that's why beginner's mindset is so
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important to me because it nurtures it and it gives it space to grow. So yeah, it's really just about
letting our mind be free and being open to new possibilities and letting things go. But I think
it's like a muscle that we need to practice. And I do think we need to sometimes find, because
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especially if we are an expert in a field, it could be so hard to let go of all of that
knowledge and see things fresh. So you can kind of
afflict that muscle, if you like, by changing things or altering the method that you're creating or
what you're doing or the way that you're thinking or putting yourself in completely new situations,
(24:24):
which is where the divergent thinking element comes in and improv. Because now I've realized that
that kind of beginner's mindset is so vital to me. I am a lot more open to trying brand new
things in the creative realm that expand even further than just art because I can see the value
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that has on my artwork. So I take part in improv now, which I absolutely see as boot camp for my
brain. And that line of things definitely helps with my creativity and my imagination. So this is
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where an interesting study comes in about divergent thinking because they looked at the impact of
improv on the brain in terms of divergent thinking, which is getting to creativity.
And they got a group of marketing students and it's called the paperclip experiment, I think.
And it was they got a group of students in and they said, "How many uses can you think of for
(25:30):
this paperclip?" And their control group came up with a number. But then they sent another group
off to improv for 10 weeks. They came back and came up with so many more uses for the paperclip.
Wow. There's scientific evidence that it helps us to think more creatively. And again, I think
that's to do with curiosity and just training our brain to, again, you probably wouldn't think of
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so many uses because of our preconceived ideas, because of our knowledge, because of the baggage
that we're bringing with us. I think that element of stretching our brain in that way and having
better divergent thinking is probably because we are allowing ourselves to be more curious and
you can't foster that without having the beginner's mind. They're quite interlinked.
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Yeah. So you're going into improv was firstly to reactivate that beginner's mind
sex. You'd never done it before, right? But then what is it about improv that expands your mind
and help these people with this paperclip? What is it about it?
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So it's really about the process rather than the outcome. So you're in it and it's
live and you're not worried about the end result. It's actually a really amazing way of feeling
very, very present. It's also an amazing stress reliever, by the way. It's like going in and just
being given permission to play and not have any expectations or judgments or worries.
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All of the people that are usually fairly similar and kind of like kind and giving.
We can like, it's a space where you can fail without fear. And I think that's something like
when you're creating anything actually that having permission to fail without the worry about it is
good, gives you a place to do that. Helps with imagination and idea of generation.
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Because again, you're thinking on your feet and the stuff just, you know, it's amazing how the
stuff is just there in your head. And you can't sense yourself. It just has to come out.
There's no kind of preconceived ideas. Again, you don't go into an improv scene with a preconceived
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idea of how it's going to unravel. So again, you go in with that curiosity and developing
that beginner's mind again. Yeah, it's just about creative instincts and being willing to explore
and play and just trust in yourself. And you just have to, you just have to like make a choice as
well. So often within probably you just have to choose like you say something and then you
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are committed to it. And some of the games that they do as well that you might have. So the game
they do where you have slips of paper and people have prewritten sentences in and random leisure
in the scene, you pull out the piece of paper and you read whatever's on it. But you read it with
such commitment because you have because you have to that's like that's what makes the scene.
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And then you just roll with it and run with it. So yeah, I think it's it's fantastic for
just getting my brain into that that creative space. And then I can bring
that that way of thinking it kind of helps me with my creativity with my art, but also just
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in everyday life, it makes you more responsive to things willing to go with things willing to
take risks just. Yeah, it's just helped me feel a lot lighter and a lot better.
So yeah, I think bootcamp for the brain improv. I love that. I mean, it's such a
seemingly random thing. But everything you're saying there is like all of that can be applied
(29:24):
to creativity and also just a great mindset to be in, you know, to be observant, open to new ideas,
able to change directions, be agile, all these things that they're great in life anyway.
Yeah. I mean, I think it in a non scary environment.
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And it's interesting you said random because actually it was I was not seeking improv in
any way. I just happened to go for coffee with two stand up comedians who just said,
well, actually, just invite me for coffee. And I have this thing where I just think now,
you know what, like, I would just say yes to things I would just, I say yes, and then I think
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about it later. So I just like, yeah, okay, I think with it was art related. And then they said,
I was setting up this improv route to come in. And this was about four years ago. And that just
started to go. And I absolutely love it because of all the stuff I get from it. And it wasn't
on purpose. It wasn't a decision. I had no idea what improv was. And when they first explained it
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to me, I was like, this sounds bonkers. But it has given me so many opportunities to push myself
out of my comfort zone. I mean, I do I do the groups I don't tend to perform, but I have performed
once. And when I got a message at like 10 o'clock in on a Friday morning, do you fancy doing an
improv show in a theater at seven o'clock tonight? And then I cook I typed yes straight away
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before my brain had chance to say no. And I said I was going to do it and I went and did it and it
was amazing. And I think that's another thing I've perhaps approached things with as well now. I
think, well, you're only you kind of only get this experience once what's what is the worst that's
going to happen. And I think putting yourself in sometimes uncomfortable situations or things that
(31:24):
you're going to find challenging again, just stretches your brain and stretches your willingness to
to try new things. Yeah, I mean, it's all I always think that like, being uncomfortable is just
a sign that you are growing a little bit. And it's an opportunity to develop as a person. And
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you know, this podcast is that for me, like, so I was so uncomfortable when I first started it
because, you know, my voice is too squeaky or I've got nothing to say. But I'm getting so many
benefits out of it by talking to people like you. And it's just really making me feel alive, you
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know, but if I had just sort of let my scare like being scared of it and the uncomfortableness
of doing the first episode, if I let that stop me, then I wouldn't be here today.
Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. And it's really good to acknowledge that and reflect on it as well.
Because I think we sometimes just keep ourselves so hemmed in and so we don't fully grow into ourselves.
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That you never know what's right in the corner.
No, no, absolutely not. And I think you get, I don't know, you get one shot and we just try it
and what's the worst is going to happen. I mean, nobody, nobody at the end is going to sit there
and talk about the things that they, the only thing we talk about is the things that we didn't
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try or didn't do. So like, where did this idea to say yes to everything? Where did that come from?
Do you know what, I think that's, I mean, it's literally not yes to absolutely everything in
there, the broadest sense, but generally it's kind of a mantra that I like to have.
I read this was before I was, this was before I was Paul, this was a long time ago. Actually,
(33:19):
I read Yes Man, I think it was called. I haven't read it for a really long time. But in the book,
it was about a guy that said, started to say yes to everything. And the way that his life just
unraveled and well, not unraveled, that sounds bad, that makes it sound like it went down,
(33:39):
but unfolded, I think is a better word. And opportunities started to come to him. And then
he starts to have such a rich and fulfilling life. And I think as soon as you're sort of becoming more
open to possibilities, you see that happening like with my art practice, when I started to say yes
to that and to embrace it and to take on events, it's just brought me just so much. I get to,
(34:06):
I get to go to loads of different places around the country to share my work with people, have
conversations with people. I have built up a huge artistic community of people around me, people
that, you know, perhaps before I would have seen and just, and like I admired the work, they're now
kind of my community. And I love that. I just find that there's just such a richness to mainly
(34:34):
because the community and the people that is allowed me to expand and meet. I mean,
when I was doing my leadership role, I was so absorbed in my work and all of that that actually,
I remember sitting down and think and saying to my husband, look, I have got no, there's nothing
outside of work, actually, my friendships had kind of even sort of disintegrated. I was going on
(34:57):
like online meetups to see whether I could find like a meetup groups that could actually meet
some other human beings, but then having no time to go. So even my relationship beyond work with,
as well as my creativity, everything was suffering. But now it's, I don't know, I just,
(35:19):
just surrounded by so many amazing people and getting to do things like this and talk to you
like across the globe and just and share. Like that wouldn't have happened if I'd just, I don't
know, stay contained. I don't want to, I don't know, I want to just talk to people, meet people,
(35:41):
build community, build connections. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's building connections is exactly what
you said in the beginning about what creativity is to you. That's amazing. And thank you for saying
yes to this, by the way. Thank you so much for having me. Now, before we go, I, I, you've mentioned
(36:03):
a couple of tips and throughout this, throughout this chat. But tell me, what's your number one
piece of advice for others who are maybe in that place where they were more creative in the past
and it sort of dropped off a little bit, or perhaps they haven't like delved into it since they were
a kid. What, what do you think your advice would be to people who want to refine their creativity?
(36:28):
Oh, I think novelty may be going and finding something that is new and creative and interesting
and just maybe go, because I went to the tapestry and I went to a workshop actually,
go and just find a workshop that you think is quite interesting and just go along and go in and
(36:50):
have a play, whether that's a ceramics workshop, whether that's a tapestry, whether that's a
lino cutting, like whatever that might be, just go and try something, but go in just and play.
And I mean, you know, usually the people are quite creative. So you they'll give you space
to just explore and I think just find something that is going to allow you a little bit of a chance
(37:18):
to check out of the real world, go somewhere and just play and feel creative and that will
be whatever peaks your interest. So there's not going to be like one art form that's going to
be right for everybody. It's just something that's that peaks your interest. Just jump in and don't
be worried about it and don't have fear that everybody's going to be like just get rid of
(37:41):
those mind monkeys and just say yes, book it, go. That's amazing advice and great tips all
throughout that whole chat. Thank you so much for joining me today. I think that was a beautiful
chat and it was really great to hear more about your journey. And I also want to say thank you
to everyone who has tuned into Creativity (38:01):
Uncovered today. I really hope that this episode has
inspired you to say yes to new adventures. And as always, I hope that it helps you summon your
creativity the next time that you need it.
(38:29):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (38:54):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people and we pay
our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my amazing team
here at Crisp Communications and the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling. If you
(39:14):
liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to unlock more creativity
in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
Uncovered. My name is Abi Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions and how they use them at
home, work, play and everything in between. And as always, my goal for this podcast is that by the
end of it, you'll be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the
(00:35):
next time you need it. Today, I am speaking to Clare Morgan, who is a UK based fine artist who
specializes in line-cut printmaking. And Clare has a really interesting journey and relationship
with her creativity. And I really think that her story will be really helpful to any of our listeners
(01:00):
today who are just feeling a little lost and want to find their way back into the creative space.
So thank you for joining me, Clare. Hi, good morning. Thank you for having me, Abi.
I certainly appreciate you joining me because you are based in the UK, complete time difference,
we're sort of on opposite schedules at the moment. Yeah, which is fine because I'm an
(01:21):
absolute morning person. So this is good for me. I like function on all cylinders in the morning,
but like, if you ever catch me in the afternoon, it's a different story.
And actually, like, that's an important thing is with creativity or, you know, any sort of work
is kind of knowing how you function, right? And best time of the day and best environment and
things like that. So it's good to know that you're aware of that for yourself. So Clare,
(01:47):
I sort of mentioned it before, but, you know, you're now a fine artist and you spend your days
creating beautiful artwork and gifts. But, you know, we spoke previously. And you let me know
that for many years that actually wasn't always the case. So like this kick this off by sort of
talking about a little bit about your story and your relationship with creativity.
(02:13):
Yeah, so art, I mean, art has always been with me. So even when I wasn't creating, I was working as
an art teacher. So it's, honestly, I feel like I live and breathe art and always have done my
very first memory of doing any art at all was when I was really small. And you know, you get
your coloring books and you're really proud of what you're doing, you show your parents. And I
(02:36):
decided that in all my coloring books, I was going to color the lines rather than filling in all of
the gaps. And that was how I was going to approach it. That was kind of my way. And I remember
just like, and people saying, why don't you just color the whole thing? And I was going, no, no,
that's, I like it that way. And I think I was quite set and doing and doing things my own way
early on. I think that's because there's children, children and naturally creative, naturally
(03:01):
curious, we don't have loads of baggage attached to it. But as we start going, getting a bit older,
there's more shoulds going in there. And people telling you how this thing should be done and
expectations. And, and unfortunately, I think we lose that over time as we grow up a bit. And
even, even though I was good at art, and that was something that was recognized, I still went
(03:28):
through my training and felt actually like I'd lost creativity. I think people assume that if
you are good at art, that means creativity comes with it. But it doesn't necessarily because
rules came back in. And I had, I mean, my art teacher was brilliant. But the training was very
formal. And it was how things look. It was photo realism. It was that sort of level of everything
(03:53):
having to be perfect. So the breaking of the rules became very difficult for me.
Wow, sort of like prescribed creativity was kind of hemming me a little.
And it, I mean, it was good training to have and I value it now because a lot of those skills do
help me with the type of work that I create, but it's probably shaped the type of work that I
(04:14):
create as well. And then leaving school, and I went to college and they, that was kind of my
first experience of something that I'll come to talk about probably a little bit more about this
idea of removing that expectation. But the first lesson in there, they took our pencils away,
took our paintbrushes away, they gave us sticks, emulsion and ink. And then they just said, look,
(04:40):
we're just removing all of the things that you're familiar with, and you're going to create in
this new way. And actually that unlocked that creativity again. And I think a tip for anybody
actually, if you're struggling just, and particularly if you're an artist, it's maybe got
these perfectionist tendencies to do something novel, like draw with your left hand and draw,
(05:01):
do something different, like novelties really key. And that can help push you back into the
creativity. And then I continued to study art, went and studied at university, and I went into
teaching. And that's where my journey started to change slightly. I started to progress in my
teaching career, and went into school leadership, which took me out of the classroom a bit more,
(05:27):
but also dominated a lot of my time and a lot of my brain space as well, outside. So at that
point, I slowly started creating less and less until the point that I wasn't creating at all.
And, yes, I was in the classroom, but even that was was very different, just because of the other
(05:48):
roles that I had. And so I was doing that for a few years. And you sort of feel like something
felt like something was missing, I knew something must have been missing, because I was
started to go to Buddhist talks and spiritual stuff and just trying to find this thing that was
missing, without actually connecting the dots that was my creativity. And then I started to become
(06:11):
quite unwell. I didn't know why I was having repeated infections and get lost my voice. And
it started to impact my work. And I was ill for quite a long time before I realized what was
happening. And I actually went to work one day, feeling quite poorly, because at that point,
(06:31):
I was so poorly, I was going to work even if I wasn't feeling great.
It became the new start.
Yeah, it was, you don't notice it creeps up on you over time. You just think, oh, everyone, you
know, I don't know, you just assumed it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I knew I wasn't okay, because I was
going to the doctors repeatedly, but just not getting answers. Then this particular time, I
(06:52):
did an examination and he said, oh, like, your liver and your spleen are like huge. And you're
also tachycardic and you're also running to temperature. And I think they thought it might
have been sepsis at that particular point. They sent me to hospital. The hospital kept me for two
weeks. And during that two weeks, I was like, this obviously something wrong. I've got all these
(07:14):
medical students coming to look at my massive liver because it's like, and I'm thinking, oh my
God, what's like what's going on? And then during that time, they discovered I'd got an non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma, something called peripheral T cell non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a really rare one,
which is why it's hard to pick up because everything that was wrong, you could put down to
(07:37):
other things like in the end, I've got like itchy legs and that's, you know, the doctor would say,
oh, it must be the washing powder that you're using. So you'd like change that or I was losing
weight, but I was also going to the gym at five o'clock every morning thinking, oh, if I just go
to the gym and get fit, I'm going to feel better. And then it was all these sort of signs that I
(08:01):
never put together, but I didn't have like the swollen lymph nodes that you'd expect. It was
more like these subtler like infections, itchy limbs. Eventually I got the bigger symptoms like
night sweats and stuff. I also had an immune disorder, which is why I had the infections and
probably kind of linked to the cancer. So at that point, that's like that kind of, you're going
(08:24):
about your life trying to sort of figure things out, you've got everything kind of planned ahead.
It's almost like somebody just pulls the rug from underneath you and at that point, nothing else
actually matters anymore. It's just actually dealing with it, getting better. It was part
shock, but also part relief because I knew what was happening. I knew that actually I wasn't
(08:48):
well, but there's something I could do about it.
A bit more clarity for you.
Yeah, it did. The doctor had said, well, the consultant had said, you, it's, it's stage four.
So when they did a PET scan, I like, they like fill you with radiation. It's bizarre, but they
(09:10):
scan you and I just lit up like a Christmas tree. I was like, oh my God, it's, it's literally
everywhere. It's in my bones. It's in my liver. My split like just crazy. But they said I could
start off with chemo and if I could, if I could get rid of, rid of it with chemo, then I could
(09:33):
have hopefully, well, they don't tell you everything. They don't tell you everything
only one go. They give you like steps. So they tell you a bit and then you go through that bit
and then they'll tell you the next bit. So they take you through it really well. And I ended up
having a stem cell transplant in the end because my treatment took quite a long time and it was
quite invasive treatment, especially with a stem cell transplant. It meant I had quite a bit of
(09:59):
time to recover and I was off work for quite a bit of time as well. So I ended up with this period
of time post transplant where I knew I was going to be going back to work. Couldn't, couldn't go
back then because I was still recovering. And it gave me this window. So I started to call it
my sabbatical essentially. Nice refining. Yeah, I was like, this is my sabbatical. This is like
(10:23):
some time. Do you know what? I haven't had my whole life. I have never had a period of time where
I can just focus on like what I want to develop and focus on me. So I used it and I started to,
I wanted to get back into my creativity again. But this is the time I need to get that back.
But I was in a strange position having done our and having these expectations around what I
(10:46):
should be able to create. There was a fear there. There was like baggage there that actually if I
start making it's going to have to be like really good. I had these crazy expectations. So I thought
well, as good as you were prior to teaching or yeah, yeah. Because when you teach, I think I felt
(11:07):
like, because I teach 11 to 18 years, I do teach six one, but I feel like this, this,
I felt like the stuff that I was creating, I had this like school energy to it like, I don't know,
it didn't feel mine. So it was kind of being able to let go of that and step out of it, find my own
(11:28):
voice again. But I actually did it in an interesting way. So I decided to do tapestry weaving,
because it was something new novel. I have no expectations around it. No one's expecting
me to be good at it. It's a way of engaging my creative brain in a completely new way that I
(11:48):
just don't, I could approach it fresh. I could approach it essentially with a beginner's mind,
I would say. Yeah. So you've never done tapestry in the past at all?
No, never. And it's not, I mean, it's not something I do now, but I have the tapestry that I made
in my artist studio now, because I look at it to remind myself that actually, if you are struggling,
(12:12):
just find the novelty or find something new. Yeah.
And push your boundaries that way. And then from that, I then went into portrait drawing and started
to draw from sitters. And then I became obsessed with people because actually, through all of my
experiences, I think I started to just really appreciate kind of other humans and other people's
(12:32):
stories. And I became intrigued by the fact that we never really know what anyone else is going
through and that we should be living with this kindness. And it was kind of just, I was just
obsessed with being human, being here, kind of trying to get stories across through the art.
So that kind of led me into, because I do a lot of portraiture in my artwork now.
(13:00):
So yeah, that's how I kind of got back into it, which I'm really grateful for.
Wow. Wow. I mean, it's obviously going through that illness and that experience was not
the most amazing thing in your life. But it is interesting that it's contributed to you
looking at trying to find more creativity again, and your own personal creativity. That's very
(13:25):
interesting. Yeah, because I think that also links to a sense of purpose as well. Because I think
after something like that, you think, well, what am I actually here for? What am I on this planet for?
And previously, all of my creativity, all of my energies were going into somebody else's vision
and somebody else's agenda, and I was completely replaceable. I step out of that role, someone
(13:47):
else steps into that role, they have the ability to shift that vision. I channeled my creativity
into building policies, whereas actually, now I channel my creativity into something that's mine,
there's no, like my artwork is mine. I'm creating it and putting it out into the world. Nobody
else is going to step into my shoes and change it or tweak it or alter it. It's, I feel like I'm
(14:13):
putting an investment into something that I'm leaving behind, like, I don't know, like,
like a legacy or something. It's what I'm going to believe in here. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what attracts
you to creativity? Is that being able to express what is truly you and leaving a legacy? Or like,
what is it about creativity or art that attracts you? I think it's to do with the connections
(14:39):
that it brings actually more than anything else. The fact that I make art and put it out into the
world, but that isn't the whole story. I don't think art is all about the artist. I think,
like my art teacher always used to say, everyone brings their own baggage to a piece of artwork.
That's so true. If you find a piece of art that connects with you as a viewer, as like somebody
(15:05):
observe in the artwork, do you see something that connects to you? It's because you're connecting
with it because of your own baggage, your own story, your own journey. And I love the fact
that I can put that piece out there and somebody will form that connection with it and will have
their own story with it. And it'll invoke that kind of emotional energy. And I've been at so many
(15:29):
exhibitions and shows where people have picked up a piece of artwork and they'll say, this really
reminds me of this relationship I had, or this really reminds me of this moment in time when
I had this struggle. I mean, often without me saying anything about my story, often people who
have had really challenging times in their lives. Those are the people that are connecting with the
(15:54):
work and choosing the work. And I don't think that's happening by accident. I think that's
something in it, whether it's the colour or the imagery or the emotion in the portraits,
there's something happening there that I think is just incredibly magical and it's such a privilege
to be able to make things that do that for another human being that I couldn't think of a better
(16:18):
reason to create. Yeah. Oh, that's, I mean, that's amazing. I know that there's that sort of saying
like the author is dead. So, you know, whatever intent there is when you're writing a piece,
someone else is going to come in and bring their own lens to it and their own baggage,
as you said, and make their own spin on it all and their own interpretation. But it's interesting
(16:43):
how people are able to do that, but also kind of tap into exactly what you had put into it.
Yeah. And I think it's because it kind of follows the work kind of follows a bit of a pattern.
Like it's because it, I don't think art should be static. I don't think an artist should be
(17:03):
creating the same thing all of the time because actually we grow and develop as humans,
grow and develop as artists, the world around us, changes and shifts. So the work did follow this
flow of my recovery. So at the very beginning, all of my figures were falling because it was a
visual representation of having the report from Undyoo and being in freefall. But they weren't
(17:27):
dark images. They were so colorful. And there was a vibrancy and an energy in them because
actually that I wanted to embrace that uncertainty or encourage other people to embrace that
uncertainty. Then they kind of flowed into these figures that were really strong sort of circus
(17:48):
performers, aerial acrobats that I was documenting. But I would fragment them so they were made up of
little pieces and all those little pieces that they were made up of. That was kind of looking at the
idea of strength from coming out of being broken actually all as we go through our experiences
and we get all of these different cracks and challenges that actually they make us more,
(18:14):
like a lot stronger. And then they moved into more mindful figures. And now my work is portraits and
it's all about the seasons and connecting with nature and trying to go with the flow a little bit
more. I think everything I make is I learned so much during that time of my life. And we do get
(18:34):
stuck in the business of the real world again. I do not want to forget those things. I do not want
like the universe sending me another message. I'm like, yes, thank you. I got it. I'm gonna
keep reinforcing it to myself. That's cool. And just because I mean I'm not, I make work about
(18:56):
mindfulness and I make work about like the affirmations and reminders because I need it because
I'm not perfect at that. I do sometimes go a million miles an hour and don't take that time out.
So I need to just constantly have that in my life. And if I can present that to other people and
(19:18):
other people can take stuff from that as well, then that's just that's an absolute bonus.
So do you think that do you think that all art needs to have meaning?
That's a really interesting question. I think there are so many humans in this world
(19:40):
and there are some people that you will talk to and actually for them,
they artwork that they have maybe it is a piece of interior design and they just simply want it
because it matches the colour of their room or like it finishes something off and they're looking,
I mean to be fair that creates the whole feeling of the space which you could say
(20:03):
taps into emotion even if they haven't necessarily connected with that piece in a certain way.
And I think that's still valid. But I think and because it not everybody gets this,
not everybody relates to art in this way and that's absolutely fine. But there are,
there are some humans like that that's where they find their thing. So some people it'll be music
(20:29):
like you put that music on and it will alter your mood, it will change how you feel in like
art can be the same way for other people. So I have art in my home and there are some pieces
that I've bought just because actually they're visually interesting and I may be like the colour
but there are other pieces I've got because there's a story and a feeling it makes me feel
(20:51):
a certain way. Even myself I've got, I'm on a spectrum of that. No, I think that there are
so many humans in the world and so many pieces of art in the world. I don't think it has to,
I don't think anything has to be anything actually. Yeah, because you don't like the rules.
(21:11):
I don't like the rules. I think it could be whatever it wants to be.
Yeah, yes. Because yeah, I think that's always interesting. It's, I think when people try and
assign like just a nominal meaning to something for me that's kind of worse and just going,
oh, it has no meaning. It's purely disasetic and it's pretty and I like it. Because I think that
(21:36):
could be a thing. Yeah, that could be the thing. It's actually, do you know what? It's because I
like it. That is actually still coming from a place of emotion because it's, it's creating
emotion in them to drive them to make that peace. And actually a person like, do you know what? Maybe,
maybe that's not the right question actually. Maybe or the right way of thinking about it.
(21:58):
If you choose something, there is emotion attached because there has to be. Simple as that. Because
you like it. Yeah. That's it. As long as you're cognizant when you're doing the,
making the decision. Yeah. Then there's some type of thought process that goes through it and thus
therefore an emotion that goes through it as well. Absolutely. I love that. I love that.
(22:23):
And I mean, just jumping back before you said something that was really interesting.
When you were talking about, you know, you'd sort of had gone through the teacher process and kind
of your expression of your true artistic self was kind of being diminished along the way.
And you were scared to jump back into that again. And so you, you went through the tapestry
(22:47):
because of the beginner's mindset. Tell me what is the beginner's mindset? I was intrigued by that,
but I'll come back to that point later. Now that time. So beginner's mindset is Zen Buddhist
principle, which is about engaging with the world with no preconceived ideas and seeing things for
the first time with their complete curiosity. The idea is obviously if we are needing to be an
(23:13):
expert at things and we've got lots of knowledge, that can actually be an obstacle to our creativity
and our curiosity. Because it just shuts down our curiosity. I mean, to me, I would say that
curiosity, well, creativity, I should say is curiosity at play. I think creativity is an
expression of our curiosity. And that's how I kind of view it. So that's why beginner's mindset is so
(23:39):
important to me because it nurtures it and it gives it space to grow. So yeah, it's really just about
letting our mind be free and being open to new possibilities and letting things go. But I think
it's like a muscle that we need to practice. And I do think we need to sometimes find, because
(24:00):
especially if we are an expert in a field, it could be so hard to let go of all of that
knowledge and see things fresh. So you can kind of
afflict that muscle, if you like, by changing things or altering the method that you're creating or
what you're doing or the way that you're thinking or putting yourself in completely new situations,
(24:24):
which is where the divergent thinking element comes in and improv. Because now I've realized that
that kind of beginner's mindset is so vital to me. I am a lot more open to trying brand new
things in the creative realm that expand even further than just art because I can see the value
(24:47):
that has on my artwork. So I take part in improv now, which I absolutely see as boot camp for my
brain. And that line of things definitely helps with my creativity and my imagination. So this is
(25:08):
where an interesting study comes in about divergent thinking because they looked at the impact of
improv on the brain in terms of divergent thinking, which is getting to creativity.
And they got a group of marketing students and it's called the paperclip experiment, I think.
And it was they got a group of students in and they said, "How many uses can you think of for
(25:30):
this paperclip?" And their control group came up with a number. But then they sent another group
off to improv for 10 weeks. They came back and came up with so many more uses for the paperclip.
Wow. There's scientific evidence that it helps us to think more creatively. And again, I think
that's to do with curiosity and just training our brain to, again, you probably wouldn't think of
(25:56):
so many uses because of our preconceived ideas, because of our knowledge, because of the baggage
that we're bringing with us. I think that element of stretching our brain in that way and having
better divergent thinking is probably because we are allowing ourselves to be more curious and
you can't foster that without having the beginner's mind. They're quite interlinked.
(26:18):
Yeah. So you're going into improv was firstly to reactivate that beginner's mind
sex. You'd never done it before, right? But then what is it about improv that expands your mind
and help these people with this paperclip? What is it about it?
(26:39):
So it's really about the process rather than the outcome. So you're in it and it's
live and you're not worried about the end result. It's actually a really amazing way of feeling
very, very present. It's also an amazing stress reliever, by the way. It's like going in and just
being given permission to play and not have any expectations or judgments or worries.
(27:05):
All of the people that are usually fairly similar and kind of like kind and giving.
We can like, it's a space where you can fail without fear. And I think that's something like
when you're creating anything actually that having permission to fail without the worry about it is
good, gives you a place to do that. Helps with imagination and idea of generation.
(27:30):
Because again, you're thinking on your feet and the stuff just, you know, it's amazing how the
stuff is just there in your head. And you can't sense yourself. It just has to come out.
There's no kind of preconceived ideas. Again, you don't go into an improv scene with a preconceived
(27:51):
idea of how it's going to unravel. So again, you go in with that curiosity and developing
that beginner's mind again. Yeah, it's just about creative instincts and being willing to explore
and play and just trust in yourself. And you just have to, you just have to like make a choice as
well. So often within probably you just have to choose like you say something and then you
(28:16):
are committed to it. And some of the games that they do as well that you might have. So the game
they do where you have slips of paper and people have prewritten sentences in and random leisure
in the scene, you pull out the piece of paper and you read whatever's on it. But you read it with
such commitment because you have because you have to that's like that's what makes the scene.
(28:38):
And then you just roll with it and run with it. So yeah, I think it's it's fantastic for
just getting my brain into that that creative space. And then I can bring
that that way of thinking it kind of helps me with my creativity with my art, but also just
(28:58):
in everyday life, it makes you more responsive to things willing to go with things willing to
take risks just. Yeah, it's just helped me feel a lot lighter and a lot better.
So yeah, I think bootcamp for the brain improv. I love that. I mean, it's such a
seemingly random thing. But everything you're saying there is like all of that can be applied
(29:24):
to creativity and also just a great mindset to be in, you know, to be observant, open to new ideas,
able to change directions, be agile, all these things that they're great in life anyway.
Yeah. I mean, I think it in a non scary environment.
(29:47):
And it's interesting you said random because actually it was I was not seeking improv in
any way. I just happened to go for coffee with two stand up comedians who just said,
well, actually, just invite me for coffee. And I have this thing where I just think now,
you know what, like, I would just say yes to things I would just, I say yes, and then I think
(30:09):
about it later. So I just like, yeah, okay, I think with it was art related. And then they said,
I was setting up this improv route to come in. And this was about four years ago. And that just
started to go. And I absolutely love it because of all the stuff I get from it. And it wasn't
on purpose. It wasn't a decision. I had no idea what improv was. And when they first explained it
(30:32):
to me, I was like, this sounds bonkers. But it has given me so many opportunities to push myself
out of my comfort zone. I mean, I do I do the groups I don't tend to perform, but I have performed
once. And when I got a message at like 10 o'clock in on a Friday morning, do you fancy doing an
improv show in a theater at seven o'clock tonight? And then I cook I typed yes straight away
(30:59):
before my brain had chance to say no. And I said I was going to do it and I went and did it and it
was amazing. And I think that's another thing I've perhaps approached things with as well now. I
think, well, you're only you kind of only get this experience once what's what is the worst that's
going to happen. And I think putting yourself in sometimes uncomfortable situations or things that
(31:24):
you're going to find challenging again, just stretches your brain and stretches your willingness to
to try new things. Yeah, I mean, it's all I always think that like, being uncomfortable is just
a sign that you are growing a little bit. And it's an opportunity to develop as a person. And
(31:48):
you know, this podcast is that for me, like, so I was so uncomfortable when I first started it
because, you know, my voice is too squeaky or I've got nothing to say. But I'm getting so many
benefits out of it by talking to people like you. And it's just really making me feel alive, you
(32:08):
know, but if I had just sort of let my scare like being scared of it and the uncomfortableness
of doing the first episode, if I let that stop me, then I wouldn't be here today.
Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. And it's really good to acknowledge that and reflect on it as well.
Because I think we sometimes just keep ourselves so hemmed in and so we don't fully grow into ourselves.
(32:36):
That you never know what's right in the corner.
No, no, absolutely not. And I think you get, I don't know, you get one shot and we just try it
and what's the worst is going to happen. I mean, nobody, nobody at the end is going to sit there
and talk about the things that they, the only thing we talk about is the things that we didn't
(32:56):
try or didn't do. So like, where did this idea to say yes to everything? Where did that come from?
Do you know what, I think that's, I mean, it's literally not yes to absolutely everything in
there, the broadest sense, but generally it's kind of a mantra that I like to have.
I read this was before I was, this was before I was Paul, this was a long time ago. Actually,
(33:19):
I read Yes Man, I think it was called. I haven't read it for a really long time. But in the book,
it was about a guy that said, started to say yes to everything. And the way that his life just
unraveled and well, not unraveled, that sounds bad, that makes it sound like it went down,
(33:39):
but unfolded, I think is a better word. And opportunities started to come to him. And then
he starts to have such a rich and fulfilling life. And I think as soon as you're sort of becoming more
open to possibilities, you see that happening like with my art practice, when I started to say yes
to that and to embrace it and to take on events, it's just brought me just so much. I get to,
(34:06):
I get to go to loads of different places around the country to share my work with people, have
conversations with people. I have built up a huge artistic community of people around me, people
that, you know, perhaps before I would have seen and just, and like I admired the work, they're now
kind of my community. And I love that. I just find that there's just such a richness to mainly
(34:34):
because the community and the people that is allowed me to expand and meet. I mean,
when I was doing my leadership role, I was so absorbed in my work and all of that that actually,
I remember sitting down and think and saying to my husband, look, I have got no, there's nothing
outside of work, actually, my friendships had kind of even sort of disintegrated. I was going on
(34:57):
like online meetups to see whether I could find like a meetup groups that could actually meet
some other human beings, but then having no time to go. So even my relationship beyond work with,
as well as my creativity, everything was suffering. But now it's, I don't know, I just,
(35:19):
just surrounded by so many amazing people and getting to do things like this and talk to you
like across the globe and just and share. Like that wouldn't have happened if I'd just, I don't
know, stay contained. I don't want to, I don't know, I want to just talk to people, meet people,
(35:41):
build community, build connections. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's building connections is exactly what
you said in the beginning about what creativity is to you. That's amazing. And thank you for saying
yes to this, by the way. Thank you so much for having me. Now, before we go, I, I, you've mentioned
(36:03):
a couple of tips and throughout this, throughout this chat. But tell me, what's your number one
piece of advice for others who are maybe in that place where they were more creative in the past
and it sort of dropped off a little bit, or perhaps they haven't like delved into it since they were
a kid. What, what do you think your advice would be to people who want to refine their creativity?
(36:28):
Oh, I think novelty may be going and finding something that is new and creative and interesting
and just maybe go, because I went to the tapestry and I went to a workshop actually,
go and just find a workshop that you think is quite interesting and just go along and go in and
(36:50):
have a play, whether that's a ceramics workshop, whether that's a tapestry, whether that's a
lino cutting, like whatever that might be, just go and try something, but go in just and play.
And I mean, you know, usually the people are quite creative. So you they'll give you space
to just explore and I think just find something that is going to allow you a little bit of a chance
(37:18):
to check out of the real world, go somewhere and just play and feel creative and that will
be whatever peaks your interest. So there's not going to be like one art form that's going to
be right for everybody. It's just something that's that peaks your interest. Just jump in and don't
be worried about it and don't have fear that everybody's going to be like just get rid of
(37:41):
those mind monkeys and just say yes, book it, go. That's amazing advice and great tips all
throughout that whole chat. Thank you so much for joining me today. I think that was a beautiful
chat and it was really great to hear more about your journey. And I also want to say thank you
to everyone who has tuned into Creativity (38:01):
Uncovered today. I really hope that this episode has
inspired you to say yes to new adventures. And as always, I hope that it helps you summon your
creativity the next time that you need it.
(38:29):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (38:54):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people and we pay
our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my amazing team
here at Crisp Communications and the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling. If you
(39:14):
liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to unlock more creativity
in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
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