May 8, 2022 • 51 mins
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Unsolved. What is up everyone,Dylan speaking and thank you for joining me
on this episode of Creepy Unsolved.In today's episode, I am joined by
my co host Laura and our goodfriend and guest, Morgan Knutson. Morgan
(00:27):
is an author, podcaster, parapsychologist, and all around great person. I
had a blast discussing everything from herfriend's personal encounter with the dog Man to
the terrifying stories of the Wind toGo. Be sure to hang around to
find out where you can find allof Morgan's great content. Before we begin,
and while I have your attention,I want to invite you to visit
(00:50):
our website, Creepy Unsolved dot com. It is your one stop shop for
all of our podcast episodes YouTube videosin the Creepy Unsolved block. Would you
like to support the show, Youcan do so for just two dollars a
month. That's less than the priceof a cup of coffee. Visit our
patrem link in the show notes below. One last thing before we begin,
(01:14):
please reach out to us. We'dlove to hear from you. Recently,
a listener reached out to us totell us his favorite episode was The Medieval
serial Killer. Do you have afavorite episode, a future story suggestion,
or something you want to say Hi, send us an email at Creepy Unsolved
Media at gmail dot com. Now, with all that out of the way,
(01:37):
let's begin. What is up Morgan? And you know, I've been
trying to get you on here forI think six months now, and every
time something that's came up, butI've finally got you on here and we're
happy to have you on. So, just for my listeners, do you
want to go over a little bitof your background so we know who we're
talking to tonight. Sure. So, I guess mainly known in the at
(02:00):
least in the public eye for bywork in television and for haunted hospitals,
Paranormal nine one one A Haunting andmultiple other millions of documentaries out there over
the last twenty years. But I'vebeen I've been doing this for about twenty
years and my program Teaching the Livinghas been in uh in circulation in a
(02:20):
lot of the post secondary education courseswithin Alberta and Canada. And I'm mainly
known for a lot of my liveshows and things like that, but also
bringing parapsychology to the forefront and makingsure that people are getting good information from
a basis of the parapsychological academia sideof the paranormal. And I try to
(02:44):
do that on my podcast as well, on Supernatural Circumstances with Mike Brown.
Yeah, I've listened to that podcast. It's great. Like I like how
you guys collab together on it.You know, once eye list to,
you each take a part of thestory and you'll tell your each segment.
Then you come together for different interviews. I really like how it's set up.
I'm really glad it's been such ahit, which has been great.
(03:04):
It's been received extremely well, andthat's been really exciting for us because I
think that the concept behind it wasto bring forward parapsychology in a way that
makes our nerdy subject really fun.And you know, and Mike and I
are both kind of nerds that way, and but we want to make it
fun for people because that's really what'smissing in a lot of parapsychology research and
(03:24):
things like that, because it isso academic minded, and we wanted to
bring some of these minds, becausethere's some of the most brilliant people on
the planet, you know, intothe same arena as the general public.
So the public can pick up onthis information as well. So it's been
a really really nice treat to beable to see so many people downloading the
(03:46):
podcast and really enjoying it and givingus really positive feedback. So I think
it's a boost for the parasychological communityin general, definitely. Now, I
just want to touch on it brieflyfor those who don't know what parapsychology is.
Is he kind of covered that inlike a nutshell. Then we'll jump
into tonight's topics. Sure, Imean, any I think anybody who's researching
the paranormal, if you don't knowthe term parapsychology, then you're not understanding
(04:11):
what the paranormal really is about.It's a scientific root study of bizarre phenomenon
psi phenomenon, and it covers everythingfrom telepathy to precognition to psychokinesis, hauntings.
To know all of those things,it is the root of studies that
go back hundreds of years. That'sso interesting and like I really heard about
it just listening to you. ThenI talked to doctor Elliott van dooson.
(04:34):
I hope I didn't mess his nameup. He was on here before.
He's a great guy. He wasa police officer in Canada for multiple years
and he got into that and thenstarted investigating other stuff. You talked about
your teaching courses up in Canada.Is this something that's more relevant in Canada?
And I think I've heard about inthe UK too. I don't really
hear about it in the US alot. Maybe I'm not looking in the
(04:54):
right spot. Well, actually,it's not a discipline that's even recognized in
Canada. It's recognized in the UnitedS dates PhDs are recognized in the US
and they're recognized in the UK.But Canada has contributed a massive amount to
the parapsychological field, although it's nottalked about near as much as the contributions
from both America and the and theUnited Kingdom, as well as Europe like
France and things like that. Soit's odd actually because Canada kind of has
(05:17):
this take a backseat attitude towards parapsychology. You know, we don't have the
conferences, we don't have the researcherswho are really out there discussing it,
and so I try to change that. My great great grandfather was the president
of the first Parasychological Association here inCanada in the eighteen hundreds, in early
nineteen hundreds. So for me,it's you know, it's it's really come
(05:40):
down through the family, and youknow, it's it's just not mentioned near
as much as what it should be. Yeah, definitely, Like that's that's
so cool to just have your familyroots tied into that. It's it's such
a cool lineage. Oh, it'sit's it's so awesome and you know,
and I didn't find out about ittill about six years into Entity Seeker forming
Entity Seeker research and teachings, whichis so but it was it was it
(06:00):
was meant to be. I think, yeah, definitely, it seems like
it now that we got that covered. You know, it's it's nice to
get your background and find out whoyou are. And I encourage everyone to
go out and listen to your podcast, Supernatural Circumstances. It's great. It
really dives into that too. Ilistened to one on I think near death
(06:21):
experiences, and that's that's always beena topic that interested me and it's just
it's just crazy to think about itand what might come of them experiences and
just crossing the line and back andforth and what's beyond this life into the
next. And it's just such aninteresting topic. It really is near death
experiences where they're they're so fascinating,and I think they are proving to be
(06:44):
one of the most grounded and mostI think it has the strongest potential for
evidence of life after death. Ohdefinitely, yeah, like I say,
and I encourage everyone to go listento your podcasts. It's great. There's
so much great content on there now. For the nights at eisde Laura mentioned
this to me that you had afriend with a dog man experience or something
(07:05):
like that, So I'd love tohear all about that. And I have,
you know, endless questions about this. You know, they're absolutely one
of my favorite phenomenon in the worldof weird things. And you know here
in Alberta we've got quite a lotof cryptids and strange creatures and things like
that. We're definitely not shy ofthose in Canada, but yeah, dogman
(07:26):
is definitely one of those critters,especially in Alberta. There's numerous accounts over
the years of people reporting them onhighways because we've got a lot of prairie
highways and things like that. Wealso have a very strong Indigenous roots here
in Alberta's and whatnot as well,which is often tied to the dogman phenomenon.
And I was fortunate enough to endup helping out in a case that
(07:49):
was not that far from me,but out in sort of this rural prairie
area. And when I first wentout there, I wasn't dealing with dogman
or anything like that at all.The family hadn't even mentioned that. I
was mainly dealing with a haunting thatwas going on within the within the house
and on the property. And wegot that, I got that kind of
under control, and you know,things were going along okay. And it
was about five years later I gota call from from her and that,
(08:13):
and I have to mention, thesethese two are the most grounded human beings
I can possibly even describe to youguys. They are so level. They
work in extremely disciplined industries and sothese aren't people that have flights of fancy
or anything like that. But theyphone the one the one day because her
husband, who was an extreme skepticbefore this, Like when I first met
(08:37):
this guy, he just did notime a day for any of this stuff.
And he had gone out to histruck. Then one day and they
live out on an acreage. Sothe acreage is basically grass and then there's
trees, like really thick forested treesall around this place, and his truck
was the only thing under under spotlight. It was the spotlight coming off the
garage And as he walked out thedoor, he turned on his heel and
(09:00):
walked right back in. And hiswife asked him, what what are you
doing. You know you're supposed tohe would go into work, and he
was like, nope, nope,can't go to work. And he was
white as a sheet. And shesaid what was going on? And he
said, well, he's like,there's a there's a werewolf in my truck.
There's a wolf in my truck.And she's staring at and going,
what the heck are you talking about? So she throws her coat on to
(09:22):
go outside, and she never ithad taken off, She never saw it,
but he was, yeah, hewas absolutely convinced, and he said,
no, this this thing was kneelingin the back of my pickup truck.
And it was huge, absolutely huge. So I was after that that
they didn't say anything to their kids, because they did they didn't want anybody
to be frightened or anything like that. And the kids had, you know,
long moved out. But when theirtheir daughter had come over the one
(09:45):
day and she had come out outthe garage and they kind of have a
Their house is next to a greatbig shop. The shop roof is quite
tall, and she opened the garagedoor and she looked up at the shop
roof and there was this creature sittingon the top of the shop roof and
it looked at her, and shelooked at it and she was thank god,
she was calm about it. Butshe closed the garage door and turned
(10:07):
around, came back in the house. She says, Mom, names a
wolf on your roof. There's awarwolf on your roof. And you know.
They said, yeah, we know, we know. All let us
explain this. And it went onwhere their son in law saw it as
well, and it was sort ofthe same same type of thing. Again,
very skeptical guy didn't believe in anyof this stuff. And he turned
(10:28):
around and came back in the houseagain. White is a sheet saying,
you know, this thing was sittingon the roof looking through the bedroom window
and had climbed up so what wethink what it was doing in the back
back of the truck the first timewas that it had climbed in the back
of the truck to step up tothe shop because that seemed to be where
it likes to sit, is theroof of the shop. So we anyway,
we ended up naming it Snoop becauseSnoopy likes to sit on the top
of doghouses, so and that's whereSnoopy seems to like to sit is on
(10:52):
the top of the shop. Soit's He's been a really interesting character.
That is so interesting. Now hashe been coming back? Is like a
one time occurrence with them all citingthis is this relevant? Well, their
system is this. Yeah, they'veseen him very clearly, like those three
times, extremely clearly they were atme, with me within meters of him.
(11:13):
But they've had other experiences with himwhere her husband at one point had
to change jobs and this was thiswas actually really interesting. He had just
changed jobs and he was going outto work out of the country brand new
places that he was working, andhe had gone next number of weeks and
she had come out to say goodbyeto him, and he was about to
get in the truck and things likethat, and they looked over and they
(11:33):
saw the glowing eyes in the woods, in the trees, and they thought,
hey, that's really interesting. Imean, they're very familiar with the
wildlife in the area, and thisthing is really big. And interestingly,
it followed him all the way upthe driveway in the state in the woods,
but followed him all the way upthe driveway. Yeah, really really
(11:54):
cool. And the only time thatI've nearly seen him, I was out
the acreage with another investigator and wehad come out to the car and our
car, the car was actually inthe same place that hit the husband's truck
had been. Yeah, and wegot the distinct impression that we were being
watched by a wild animal. Andyou totally can feel it. It's it's
(12:18):
a it's a sensation. And welooked in the woods and looked in the
woods, and we could see somethingstanding in the woods just beyond the tree
line. And in this place isout in the prairies, so if I
mean, you guys know prairies,it's black when it's night. It's night.
Um, So we couldn't see anydetail, but you could see something
that was quite tall and quite thinshifting in the trees, and it was
(12:41):
enough that we knew not to turnour backs on it. We're like,
hey, we're going to back upto the car, get in the car,
and go. And their dog,who is the biggest, friendliest,
fluffiest, laziest old thing you couldpossibly imagine, who never barks at anything,
like to the point where it alloweda porcupine to move into its doghouse
and still didn't bark at all.So you could get a clue about this
(13:03):
dog. But when we laughed,we got a text message from from the
wife. She said, you know, did you buy any chance see Snoopy
on the way out? And wesaid, yeah, we we're pretty sure
we saw Snoopy on the way out, And she said, yeah, it's
interesting because our dog Juno is barkinghis brains out at something in the woods
and and Snoopy's the only thing he'llbark at. So we thought that was
(13:24):
really interesting. So I think Iwas like really close actually seeing him,
but yeah, he stayed put.He's relatively harmless, like I mean,
he's never hurt anybody, he's neverchased anyone or anything like that. But
he's he's fascinating. It is veryfascinating. Now he said the red eyes.
Now I don't know yellow yellow eyes. Oh, yellow eyes. Okay,
it's interesting. I thought you saidred eyes. For a second,
(13:46):
I was gonna ask is that Idon't I don't know much about Bigfoot,
but I think big Foot has redeyes only sightings. Yeah, I've heard
mixed things about that, because Iknow there's been a lot of reports of
big Foot having eyeshine because they're typicallythey can be nocturnal, and it's been
thought that dog Man is the sameway because many many of the encounters,
it's been a situation where the peoplehave seen the eyeshine, which is typically
(14:09):
noctural animals, but with this guyat both my friends on the acreage have
described it this way, and manyother witnesses as well has described it not
just as eyeshine, but as almosta glow, a really soft glow.
And I always thought that was reallyintriguing, and I was never sure about
that when I was hearing it fromother witnesses, but these two reported the
(14:30):
same thing. They said, youknow, when he shifted his head back
and forth, normally with eyeshine,you can see a flicker because that light
is not being reflected from one sideto the other, and she said the
glow never never flickered, and Ithought that was really an interesting observation.
Yeah, I was just going toask you about that, if it because
I think you answered that when youwere on with me on my show,
(14:50):
if it was the glow or theeyeshine. Yeah, it's an interesting thing
because it's just a strange sort ofsoft glow and as i'm they're not the
first to report it, it seemsto be something that's almost that kind of
that eth Reel type essence is.I don't know, it's fascinating. I've
even heard like up in Canada,but I think you're kind of centralized.
(15:13):
There's this weird place. It's kindof more above the east coast of the
United States. So I don't evenknow what territory that is up in there,
but I'm sure you do. Butthere's this camp and I've heard that
there's been sightings of bigfoot with blueeyes. That's just crazy, really interesting.
Yeah, I mean, we've gotwe've got a lot of big foot
sightings in Alberta as well. Wehave, especially around Nordegg and northern Alberta,
(15:35):
and during the lockdowns there was evensightings closer to the cities like Calgary
and things like that, where theywere coming quite close to the city,
so I think just comfortable with thefact that people weren't around. So we've
had quite a few here, lotin bamp A Ton in British Columbia off
the island and things like that.It's massive, massive hotspot for things like
(15:56):
sasquatch, but not so much inthe prairies of Alberta because there's really nowhere
to go. Alberta is very muchlike Wisconsin and in that regard where we've
got a lot of open prairie,a lot of open farmland with these kind
of tree clusters and until you getright into the mountains in the Rockies and
and things like that in Alberta.But for the most part, like you
know, Alberta's kind of prairie farmtownkind of kind of reminds me of like
(16:18):
Kansas or Indiana or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
very similar. And one of thereasons, you know, I bring that
up because a lot of the dogmansightings are very much located in country rural
areas. So the more famous oneslike Beast Bray Road and Michigan Dogman,
and it's all very rural type settingswhere you've got a lot of farmland,
(16:40):
a lot of country, but treeclusters in different places, and that seems
to be what this is as well. Now, what's the story behind the
Michigan Dogman. Michigan Dogman is reallyinteresting because it's been kind of associated with
the Beast Bray Road with a fewdifferences been described differently in terms of fur
color and aggression level. Seems tobe a little bit different. People seem
to be a little bit more nervousaround Michigan dog Man than the Beast of
(17:03):
Bray Road, and there's been thoughtsthat they are kind of a bit different,
but it seems to be generally thesame phenomenon over and over and over
again. A lot of the encountersare centralized around a little town called Holly,
and Holly is known as Christmas CardCount because it's very picturesque little little
community, but it's known out againand out in these these backwoods that you
know, you don't run into theMichigan dog Man because it'll you know,
(17:25):
it eats carrion and a lot ofroadkill and stuff like that. So there's
been a lot of sightings over theyears between Michigan dog Man and Beast of
Bray Road, which go back tothe nineteen thirties, but dogmen in general,
I mean you can go right backinto medieval France to some of these
different locations, like stories like theBeast of Jebudon and things like that.
So I mean the encounters with thesethings you can trace back very very long
(17:51):
time. Yeah, it's interesting.It stems its roots all the way back
there. Yeah. Oh yeah,the farmland sightings and I know you covered
that story to Morgan and your Dogmanepisode. Shannon LaGrow has an episode of
the Judge in Ohio forget like acertain county or something. But that is
you haven't heard that story you neededto go find on into the fray,
(18:12):
Shannon Lgrow. What is it called, like Dogman of Ohio or something,
could be something like that. Yeah, I can't remember the title of the
podcast. White the story and oneof the very few stories where it's been
suspected that dogman hunting packs. Acouple of other encounters that have come up
over the years where people have seenmore than one in a group, but
typically they seem to be very muchloners. I've heard some crazy pack dog
(18:37):
man stories. I gotta send youthat episode. It's yeah, he's got
to see it. He's got tohear it because it's I want to hear.
I'll probably let's do it. Afterthis, you won't go to sleep.
I don't think I got tomorrow off, so I'll be all right.
Oh okay, I was gonna say, I've heard some crazy dog man pack
stories with people going out there andtrying to handle them and stuff like that.
(18:59):
It kind of makes sense that theywould hunting packs if their roots are
stemmed from like wolves. But Idon't know, is it are they directly
tied into that or what? Doyou think? I don't know. I
mean I think I don't think theseare are physical animals by any means.
I mean, it doesn't make sense. If you look at the evolutionary scale,
it doesn't make any sense because atno point in human did humans and
dogs diverge, you know, soevolutionary wise, it doesn't make any sense
(19:22):
at all. So I think whateverthese things are, they they've got to
be some sort of either thought formor or something we just quite frankly don't
understand yet. Because they are theyseem to be so just their lifespan is
excessively long. The Beast of BrayRoad, for instance, as I say,
he's been around since the thirties,you know, and he's still reported
(19:44):
to this day. I've got afriend of mine who's been out of the
farmland on Bray Road recently and hashad encounters with it. So, I
mean, there's a lot of factors, and I think many people throw in
the fact well, you know,well they eat carrion, or they eat
this, or they well don't knowthat. We know that they're picking up
food and doing something that looks likeeating. We've seen them, you know,
(20:06):
pick up food and take food away. We know that, you know,
they interact with the environment and thingslike that. Do we know that
they eat, No, we don't. We've never found scat, We've never
found you know, anything like that. Or you know, there's a lot
of things that we don't we don'tknow about them. And some ways they
definitely mimic the behavior of canines interms of even down to fur color change
(20:26):
in fur color, which is usuallyan environmental factor. But at the same
time, you know, they doa lot of things that just it really
don't make sense. Put it onthe on the map of something that is
just a dog that's up running ontwo legs, because dogs simply don't have
the physical bone structure to be ableto get up and run on two legs.
That they just can't do it.Yeah, yeah, like it.
Almos supposes the question, are theymore related to whatever Bigfoot is? What
(20:47):
do you think about that? Yeah, it's it's an interesting thought. I
mean, I think for me,I find Bigfoot is a little bit more
tangible in terms of it's it's physicality, and not that one is more realistic
than the other. I just I'mnot sure they fall into the same category
simply because you know, you've gota lot of primatologists and hominologists and whatnot
that do so much work into theBigfoot arena, where you know, they
(21:10):
they're getting prints that seem to haveyou know, physical lines and their feet
and the you know, the midtarsal break and you know, all of
these various things, and there's alot more physical evidence surrounding Bigfoot than there
is dogment where dogmen are seen,you know, disappearing into mist or they're
captured on trailcams as mists, andthen the mist seems to take the food
from the bait or you know,take the bait and then disappears and you
(21:34):
never catch it on film, orwith things like like Bigfoot, you can
at least you know, you canget it on camera, like people have
these far more physical encounters with it. So so I don't know. I
mean, I guess it's it's possible, but I just I guess. I
in my head, I always seethem as something that's a little bit more
like a something that's that's more biologicalthan than Dogman is. Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense too.I wonder if we're more caught up in
(21:57):
Bigfoot, those that why we havemore footage and we're not looking for the
dog Man. I mean, I'msure there's there's just as many people looking
for the dog Man. I don'tknow. Yeah, that's a it's a
good point, you know, Likebecause Dogman over the last number of years
is that's when it's become so muchmore popular. It feels like it's blown
up, like I think it reallyhas, and you know, everybody's attention
(22:18):
is on it because it's it's newand it's really weird, and I think
a lot of people are coming forwardbecause they're realizing, oh wait, Okay,
I'm not totally crazy. You know, there are other people out there
they've seen this, so I thinkthere's there's that aspect of it as as
well. But you know, itdoes bring up a good point, you
know, is is it because they'rejust simply being noticed more now and you
know, we just haven't been botheredin the past. I think there's a
(22:41):
few different factors with Dogman that thatcome into play that don't play with big
Foot, And as I say,one of them being trail camp footage and
things like that. Of these thingsof you know, mists coming into the
trail camp, the trail camp obviouslyfiring because it's seeing some sort of mass,
and then you know, the foodunderneath trailcam disappearing and then the mist
(23:02):
disappears and the food's gone. Stufflike that, like you don't really see
with Bigfoot as much. So Idon't know, we could be dealing with
something that is just completely not understoodby by people as of yet, you
know, or it could be justbe something where our technology hasn't caught up
with what's going on. Just allusually true, Yeah, definitely, Like
(23:22):
I can't wait to see what theyears come and bring to the Dogman community
and see if it grows to theheight of you know, Bigfoot like almost
like I want to say, changewith a guard or anything. But they
are becoming more prevalent and there's alot of good channels and documentaries being made
about the dog Man, So Ihope it brings that community together and helps
that rise. So we can kindof give some information behind that. Yeah,
(23:45):
I hope so too, because youknow, like what's so neat to
me about dog man as well asthat they are often seen, you know,
around burial grounds. They're often seenaround places where there has been you
know, burials, whether it beyou know, first nations or like cemeteries
and things like that. And theone thing that that old Snoopy here has
has taught me is that they reallyare about listening and they're about being able
(24:08):
to instead of going out and huntingfor them. And the way that investigators
often do they go pursue that doesn'twork with Dogma. You can't go do
that with Dogma. And I thinkhe's eliciting new skills from investigators and things
like that because they seem to bequite smart, they seem to be quite
aware, and I know with Snoopy. It's been interesting because my friends and
(24:30):
I hear at the acres, likewe've we've had a lot of discussion about
this and that it very much seemsto be a protector of the space and
a protector with information and information thatwe don't necessarily have because there's a lot
on the acres I won't go into, but there's a lot of the acres
on the property that's quite a bitof a mystery to everybody. And you
know, we're beginning to understand that. In order to I think, understand
(24:53):
that information and connect with whatever thisis, we've got to go out there
and be still. We have togo out there and listen. We have
to go out there and just bepresent. And I think that's what ends
up bringing bringing Snoopy a little bitcloser. As soon as you vote there
with a camera or you vote there, you know, trying to record something
(25:15):
or whatever, they're gone, likethey're like gone gone, So you know,
yeah, I think I think they'rehere to teach, and I think
if we can I think if wecan understand that and understand that there's there's
something more to them than just youknow, let's go out with a camera
and get a photo that I think, I think there's a lot that we
can learn from them. Didn't youguys have trail cans up there, and
(25:37):
weren't they like triggering like crazy andgoing off and they were working correctly,
but you had kept shared none ofthe images. Yeah, and there was
one time where we had four hundredphotos just fire off with nothing in them.
And I mean, and we've beendiligent and posting them because they're they're
very much outdoorsy people and hunt andthings like that, so they, you
know, they're well aware of,you know, how to set these things
(26:00):
up. And we've caught every animalon the planet. I mean, we've
had foxes and ravens and moose andall, you know, all sorts of
crazy things. But yeah, everyonce in a while we'll get a rash
of photos and they all get downloadedto a cell phone and all of a
sudden they'll just be foreigner photos,just boom boom. And so we've had
that happen a few times with notrigger. And we've also had it where
(26:22):
the camera itself has triggered once andthe photo is completely blacked out, completely
obliterated except for a very subtle lightthat seems to be emanating from the center
of it, and we still havenot explained that it doesn't. Yeah,
it doesn't seem to be an animalthat's like, you know, crossing in
front of the photo or the orthe lands or anything like that. We
(26:44):
don't know what the heck is causingit. And that's happened twice so far,
so we're still trying to figure thatone out. But this is a
new one to me. It's atotally yeah, it's totally new. I
mean, the cameras shouldn't do that. So and if it hadn't been something
coming into the shot, you know, you would have seen it trigger and
capture these other photos. And there'snothing like that. It's just all of
a sudden you get this sort ofobliterated photo that's that's downloaded and it makes
(27:06):
no sense whatsoever. So that's thething with this place and with Snoopy is
that there is always there's always atwist and there's always a turn, and
you just have to be on yourtoes and go, okay, now what
now, what's this? It almostsounds like they have some sort of like
supernatural ability then, or there's somethingthat's a radiating from them that's messing with
technology. Well, it's definitely beensomething that's that's been thrown around. My
(27:32):
friends out at Brey Road who've beeninvestigating that, my friend Eric Mantel,
they've been dealing with that quite extensively. Brown Bree Road as well, where
there's just been really weird malfunctions andand things like that. And this place
has very unique electromagnetic field signatures aswell. There's nothing at all underground at
this place. My friends built thisplace from the ground up and there's no
(27:53):
electrical there's no cable, there's nonothing. No one had ever settled on
this land before, so it's beencompletely empty of, you know, anything
that could possibly be triggering an EMFmeter. And we know it's not natural
because the type of meter that we'reusing it's not meant to pick upon natural
electromagnetic fields. It is supposed tobe calibrated to wiring and things like that,
so it's not water running underneath theground or anything. But we get
(28:15):
these very very strange spikes that willjust show up and they'll flatline the meter.
They'll be super super high, andthen all of a sudden they'll drop
right off again, and there's nothing, and when you go back to the
spot to try to catch it again, it's gone. And so there it's
just another thing that seems to beup and down and there's not really any
brime or reason to it, butit's it's another just piece of the puzzle
(28:36):
that we don't don't understand yet.That's like such a cool experience, Steven
Half, I want to be involvedand stuff like that. That sounds awesome.
We always see it as such ablessing because it's it's one of those
things that you know you're never probablygoing to experience again. And yeah,
and I'm hoping that one day Iget I get to see Snoopy a little
(28:56):
closer than what I did that night, because he's become very acial and very
endearing to the acreage, and Ithink even the family I was headed out
with her. We did a daytrip the other day and she she had
said to me, you know,I don't know if I could ever move,
because you know where I have tobring Snoopy with us. I just
it would just be weird not tohave him there. And so he's really
(29:17):
become a staple in everybody's life andwe just kind of know he's there and
it's yeah, it's it's really lovely. But he's become really special. That's
so nice. Yeah, I packup Snoopy and say let's go down the
road. Yeah, you get ridein the back of the truck. Hey
er, you know it's barely buthe seems. So we can transition into
(29:44):
the window goes now, because that'sanother topic I just love hearing about and
talking about, and I know youare pretty well researched into it, so
I can't wait to hear all youhave to share about that. So I
guess to start at the beginning,we talk about what exactly a window go
is and where the stories came from. Well, the one thing it's really
interesting about When to Goo is thatno matter how far back you go,
(30:04):
you can't figure out where it began. He's one of the few folkloreish creatures
spiritual creatures that you can't really finda beginning to, which I find is
really unique because you know, mostof these creatures can you can kind of
figure out. Even with dog Man. You know, you look back at
ancient Egypt and Anubis and things likethat, you can see this sort of
(30:26):
dogheaded upright canad figure that moved throughouthistory, but this guy, you can't
really figure out where he started from. And I find that really interesting about
when to go. All we haveto learn about these things is through the
First Nations people and the stories,because it really is theirs. They're the
ones that teach about this the bestbecause this is you know, what they
(30:47):
know. So for me, it'sbeen a really interesting journey. But for
the public who doesn't know what thesethese are. The earliest reports were based
out of the Algonquin people where theyhad said that during time times of famine
and trauma and the cold, coldwinter months, what would happen is that
there was almost this consciousness, thisentity that was birthed from that trauma and
(31:10):
famine, and it would possess somebodyif they if it saw you or you
had an encounter with it, andit could either attack you and kill you
and eat you, or it wouldturn around and possess you and you would
then become a wend ago and begina transformation and you would begin to be
accountable and eat, eat your familyand friends and things like that. Um,
(31:33):
but they're said. Descriptions have beenall over the map. Everything from
something that's very tall and lanky andcanid looking to something that is um,
you know, almost like a grayalien to all those these these short,
short little creatures that would would runaround there. Depending on which culture you
you know, drift to, andwhat area you're you're in, the physical
(31:56):
descriptors are different, but the onecommon denoma that runs through all of them
is that they're tall, thin,and excessively emaciated. Sometimes they're missing pieces
of their face, like their lipsand things like that, because they are
insatiably hungry, and the more theyeat, the hungrier they get, and
the more they eat, the biggerthey get. So it's a it's a
(32:17):
horrific like piece of folklore, butthe basis for it in reality is I
think even more terrifying. Yeah,I've heard a lot of stories about you
know, like you said, themore they eat, the bigger they get,
And I think that's one of themost terrifying like aspects of it,
Like is just based off the size. You can tell how many victims you
(32:39):
know, they said, windico ahead. But yeah, the actual I guess
the theme of the story around thereis what I get from. I'm not
saying this is the theme, butto not turn on your brothers and sisters
and harsh times and stuff like that. I think that really draws from that
story, you know, because,like you said, the Algonquin tribe,
they're faced with these harsh winners andyou know a lot of time they went
(33:01):
long periods of time well food andwater and the resource you need to survive.
And there was a story that youprobably know about a famous case of
windigo psychosis where one native ended upeating his family. You want to talk
about that a little bit. Sure, it happened actually about thirty minutes from
(33:22):
my house, and I didn't knowthat. Yeah, and yeah. It
was the case of swift Runner.And he began in a little community that
is north of Edmonton where I amcalled Legal and Legal. It was a
settlement that was predominantly Cree and therewas a multiple little settlements kind of around
(33:45):
It wasn't legal at the time.There was a multiple little settlements around there.
And what had happened was that hehad been expelled from the community during
the wintertime and it were it's unclearthroughout history as to why that happened.
There's references to the fact that hemight have been an alcoholic, that his
behavior wasn't so great there's like there'sa few different there's a few different takes
(34:06):
on that, but history is somewhatunclear as to why he was booted out.
But he and his family, therewas nine of them, ended up
camping out in the winter at aplace called Egg Lake. And this was
about eighteen ninety six that this happened. So during that time, a lot
of European missions and things like thathad moved into Alberta, and there was
(34:27):
a lot of genocide that was goingon. So there's a lot of trauma
that was already happening within Alberta withthe Europeans coming in and just completely dismantling
the First Nations people, and itwas pretty horrific from that side of things.
But so meanwhile, the swift Runnerwas a huge guy, big strapping
guy, was about six foot five, about three hundred pounds. This guy
was no lightweight. And they knewhim at these Catholic missions in Saint albert
(34:51):
And like all of these locations,they knew him because he was a trapper
and he was a guide. Andso anyway, one of these springs,
he had come down from Egg Lakeand he knocked on the door of this
mission, which is to say,is about a half hour drive from me,
and it's still there. And afellow by the name of father Lacom
answered and he said, you knowwhat's going on? And Swiffer proceeded to
(35:13):
tell him that, you know,this was one of the worst winters we'd
ever had. My families died ofstarvation. I'm the only one left.
He was just claiming that he wasa complete disaster, and yet they looked
at him and he wasn't a completedisaster. He was of pretty good weight,
He looked pretty decent. He didn'tlook like somebody who had been out
there for you know, starving forsix months. So they let him in
(35:35):
and throughout the nights they were hearinghim freaking out in his bed, screaming
bloody murder that the wendigo was comingthrough his window trying to get him.
They couldn't figure out what the heckwas going on, and they were they
were kind of writing it off,like, Okay, he's been through trauma.
They didn't really understand what the youknow, wendigo was because these were,
you know, a bunch of whitepeople and they just didn't get it.
(35:57):
Clueless and it didn't understand what washappened. So anyway, Swifturner was
helping in and around this basically whatit was a residential like a residential school,
because they had all the kids thereand whatnot. He had said,
you know, I'd really like totake the kids camping into the woods and
hiking. And there was something aboutthis that all the other adults there were
like, no, no, we'renot doing this with you. They said,
(36:17):
no, I don't think so.I don't think that's a good idea.
And at that point they called theNorthwest Mounted Police because they were asking
him questions like where is your family, like what is going on? And
he wasn't clear and he wasn't answering. So the Northwest Mounted Police came down
and they said, look like you'regoing to take us back to the camp
site as and you need to showus what happened. And so anyway,
(36:38):
Swifturner ended up taking them around incircles. They kind of had him drugged
up on this tobacco plug that theyhad and they wanted to try to elicit
the truth out of him if hewas a little bit more chilled out and
relaxed, and he led them allover Hell's half Acre and by the time
they got two egg lay he walkedout. It was said in the police
(36:58):
records. He walked out to thecenter of this lake and he howled,
and everybody just looked at him,like what in the heck is going on?
And he said something to the effectiveAnd it was here that I ate
the last of my children. Theydiscovered the campsite, and the campsite was
absolutely gruesome. He had completely killedand dismembered every single one of the members
of his family. He'd eaten them, He'd boiled the bones down, he
(37:20):
sucked the marrow out, and theyfound a skull with a child's moccasin stuffed
into the eyehole. He had justdecimated the family and killed them individually,
one by one. It wasn't somethinglike he just massacred everybody at once.
It was one by one. Soit was absolutely horrific. He was the
first legal hanging in Alberta at FortSaskatchewan, the Fort Saskatchewan Museum. You
can still go and visit, buthe was the first legal hanging. My
(37:44):
friend Matt and I we ended upgetting ahold of the guards journals and even
the guards and the sergeants there,Like no one wanted to watch him because
right up until the end he wasclaiming and screaming that the Wendigo was trying
to get in his cell and killhim. And he held that story to
the end of his days. Soit was, yeah, just a horrific
story. But probably one of themwas infamous when it comes to wend to
(38:06):
Go, but not the only onein Alberta either. Oh really, that's
the main one I know about.I want to hear about that. But
I just just want to get thisin here, like this story speaks volumes
for the story of the wind toGo, Like this was no joke to
the First Nations people, and no. And I talked a little bit with
Chad Lewis. I had him onmy podcast way back at the beginning.
He even told me like when hewent to do different events for his book
(38:30):
and stuff, when he went tothese different native places, they asked him
not to say the name because that'show powerful it is among them. But
I do want to hear about morestories. Oh yeah, there's there's a
lot. There's some up around SlaveLake here that we're quite terrifying as well.
They had instances where there was afellow who was basically had to be
(38:50):
tied down and asked to be tieddown because he believed that, you know,
he had seen the wend to goand the need to eat was so
bad and they need to eat thepeople around him was so bad that he
said, you absolutely cannot let meout of this chair. And you know,
the family was like, well,you know, that sounds a little
crazy, and he's like, no, you don't understand. Like I'm looking
at my kid right now, andher face looks pretty good, like it
(39:15):
was pretty horrific, Like this issome pretty horrific, scary stuff. And
so what's interesting, though, isthat when you get into I think it's
so easy for people to write thisstuff off as things like, oh,
it's mental illness or you know,oh they were in hard time, so
this is what happened, and soon and so forth. But the reality
is there's no basis for this beingmental illness at all. And when you
(39:36):
look into the idea of when togo psychosis, there's a lot of it
that it absolutely does not explain.Like there's a lot of physical symptoms for
people who are experiencing this phenomenon,like a raft that breaks out on their
hands and feet. There's oftentimes itcomes with a wicked fever and swelling of
the face and limbs. There's alot that doesn't add up to something that
is completely psychological. I think forpeople to turn around and say, oh,
(39:59):
it's so when it goes like hossand we're just going to label it
as that because you know, thesepeople, if the first nations people don't
know what they're talking about, isa grave error. You know, there's
oftentimes when it comes to legends andwhen it comes to any of this type
of lore, this stuff is putin place for a reason and there is
usually a kernel of truth in it, whether or not it's you know,
(40:22):
a legend can be true, itcan be false, but it's always right
every time, and there's always somethingin there that is correct. And as
far as I understand, there reallyis no explanation at this point for whatever
the weendigo phenomenon is. But whateverit is seems to be born and birth
from this incessant trauma. I'm alsoabout twenty minutes away from another place where
(40:45):
there was a whend Togo encounter aswell, which was at a local hospital
here in Alberta, and it waswithin the last fifty years. I would
say that it happened, but therewas said to be a whend to go
possession and it happened at this hospitalas well. And I know one of
the doctors who sat in on thison the exorcism, so there was and
again it was it was a firstnation's hospital and things like that. So
(41:07):
you know, up until very veryrecently, there's still encounters and things going
on that I think you have tobe. We have to be very very
careful of what's out there. Yeah, definitely, Like I talked about when
it goes a little bit when Ifirst started this podcast, where I knew
what I was doing, and itled me down researching other stories, and
I came across the Vince Lee story, and that one is horrifying. Man.
(41:28):
I talked a little bit about thatforever ago, Like I don't remember
every detail about it, so I'mnot going to talk about it right now.
But if that's just it's crazy ifyou have time to look into that
one. Oh yeah, no,it happened a couple of provinces over was
Manitoba and Vince Lee. You know, he's he's released out on bail now
and has been for a while.But yeah, it's it's interesting. There's
(41:51):
there's been a lot of cases thathave been over the years, you know,
attributed to a possible you know,when to go psychosis and things like
that. There was one not thatlong ago in Russia where it had all
the hallmarks again of something like thishappening. But yeah, you know what
I've what I learned when I firststarted to delve into the Wind to Go
and to understand it. I havea very close friend of mine who has
(42:12):
had some very strange things happened inregards to this, and when we first
started to delve into it, youknow, I had always kind of labeled
it as something that was legend.And my journey with this phenomenon specifically has
really opened my eyes to looking atthese types of stories so differently. And
we cannot as a society afford tobe writing these things off and dismissing them
(42:37):
as something that is just you know, oh, it's just silly folklore,
or it's you know, it's it'sjust their way, uneducated way of explaining
something that's explainable, and things likethat. It's just that's not true.
The more we start to understand this, and the more we start to pay
attention and actually look at this phenomenonfor what it is. The weirder it
gets and the harder it is tocast us and explain. And it's one
(43:00):
of the very few folklore I guessI hate to call it a story,
but one of the very few folklorereports where there is dead bodies and dead
people attached to this. There arecriminal cases attached to this, and you
know, that's as real as youget. Yeah, and like the whole
lord behind it is so powerful.They had When to Go Hunters, Oh
(43:21):
yeah, yeah, Jack Fidler,Jack Fidler, Yeah, Yeah, there's
you know, and there's been multipleover the years where you know, people
have claimed that that's what they youknow, that's what they are, that's
what they do, or you knowwhatever. But and as the stories,
some of the stories are just horrific. There is one moota Fello by the
name of Moose Tous and Chad whowe mentioned, wrote about it in his
book When to Go Lore, andit's probably one of the most gruesome stories
(43:43):
I've ever read. But it's it'salso an illustration of the power of fear
and how far people will go whenthey really believe that there is something like
this that's happening. And I thinkno matter what type of story it is,
whether we're talking about the When toGo or they were talking about the
Jersey Devil or whatever, people don'tdo this kind of thing for nothing,
you know, Like when we lookat, say, for example, like
(44:06):
the Jersey Devil in in nineteen onine and they shut down and locked down
that town, when you know,everybody was terrified that Jersey Devil was there,
and they locked down that town.We all know now what it is
for the government to lock us down, Like there's oh yeah, we don't
do it for nothing. We doit for something, you know. And
that was really interesting with with youknow, things like the Wendigo and whatnot,
(44:30):
when you've got people saying, no, we are not leaving our house
because that's there, that's out there. So it's really intriguing to me when
when you see a community like thatrespond in that kind of a way,
because it's like, you know,you might not agree with why they're doing
it, but they're not doing itfor no reason. I can agree more.
(44:51):
I do want to give you timeto talk about your book, because
I know you just re released it. It did buy a copy and I'm
waiting. I'm finishing up with anotherbook right now. I'm going to jump
into it. So I want youto give you a chance to talk about
that a little bit in your podcastand everything else you're involved with. We'll
take you next like ten minutes andwe'll dive into that, so everyone knows
where to find all of your greatcontent. Oh, thank you. You
(45:13):
know it's yeah, it's It's beenan interesting journey with that book. So
I rereleased Teaching the Living from Heartbreakto Happiness in a Haunted Home just this
past year and in the last coupleof months, and it was such a
treat because I got to rewrite itin a way that was that added about
a good one hundred and fifty pagesthe book and an update and update information
(45:36):
and whatnot. I'm really really proudof it. And it really is a
book for anybody who is feeling powerlessin a situation where there they feel like
they're experiencing paranormal stuff that they can'texplain. It's a deep dive from the
parapsychological standpoint into how you can dealwith this, how you can empower yourself
through understanding your own emotions and yourown role that you're playing within this environment
(46:00):
because it's not happening to you,it's also happening through you. So it's
it's really about you taking your powerback and learning along the way. You
know how other cultures, other communitiesand things like that have figured this out
as well. So it's about findingyour joy, it's about empowerment. It's
about really taking a deep dive inconnecting with more of who you are so
(46:20):
you can have a better relationship withnon physical energy around you. And so
that was the goal of the book. And it's available on Amazon and my
website, Entity Seeker dot c Aand Entity Seeker dot ca is like the
hub for pretty much everything. It'sthere's links to everything I've done, all
my live shows, videos, podcast, Supernatural Circumstances. For those of you
guys who don't go to the website, Supernatural Circumstances is available on every podcast
(46:45):
platform you can imagine, iHeartRadio,Spotify, Google, Apple, the works,
so you can't really miss it.And the next season of Haunted Hospitals,
which we season four should be comingout in the next hopefully the next
couple of months, so that'll beyou know, Tenny and Travel Travel Channel
(47:06):
Oh, okay, is that travelchannel? Because I was just about to
ask you where that was and canthe US get that? Or is that
just in Canada? Um? No, it's a Tienny network. Is Canada
Travel? Yeah? I figure us. And then it's also on Discovery Plus
and so it's streaming. Yeah,so it's streaming. So if people people
(47:27):
have that, then you know,wait for Discovery Plus because it'll be on
there. Yeah. Yeah, myfriend, Um, nobody's listening to this
right. My friend gave me yourpassword for a Discovery Plus because I wanted
to watch the Dead Files. Sonow I can totally check that out because
I've been wondering about that. Ihaven't watched your show, and I definitely
want to. It's always cool whenyou see someone you know. You're like,
(47:50):
hey, I know that person likeI have. I was talking to
you last time. I think itwas you. I have all these books
that I have signed by all thesepeople that I'm like friends with now,
and I'm like, this is socool. It's so nice because it's such
a it's a good community. Yeah, I met so many friends and I
was just thinking tonight, I'm like, I feel like I don't really talk
to my old friends as much asI talked to the new people that I've
(48:12):
met, because I can just letmy walls down and just yeah, speak
to them freely and they don't evenblink at me and crazy because I get
like I can just I can justsense it that some of my friends are
just like, okay, right right, but it's just cool. Well,
(48:35):
it's been a blast. Thank youso much Morgan for coming on here.
We'll have to do that again.Oh, I'd love to thank you guys.
It was about time we finally gotit to work, so I know,
man, everything kept coming up andI finally made it. Sorry,
it was worth the weight, soit's all good. I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, big guys. That is it for this one.
(49:00):
Thank you so much for joining us. If you have questions about today's
episode, or if you'd like toreach out to us directly, you can
do so by sending us an emailat Creepy Unsolved Media at gmail dot com.
Until next time, be sure tocheck out our awesome content by simply
visiting Creepy Unsolved dot com. Ifyou are active on YouTube, be sure
(49:23):
to check out our channel over thereunder the name Creepy Unsolved. Also,
while you wait for the next episodeof Creepy Unsolved, be sure to leave
us a rating and review. Thiswill help our podcast grow. Until next
time. This is Dylan signing off.
Unsolved. What is up everyone,Dylan speaking and thank you for joining me
on this episode of Creepy Unsolved.In today's episode, I am joined by
my co host Laura and our goodfriend and guest, Morgan Knutson. Morgan
(00:27):
is an author, podcaster, parapsychologist, and all around great person. I
had a blast discussing everything from herfriend's personal encounter with the dog Man to
the terrifying stories of the Wind toGo. Be sure to hang around to
find out where you can find allof Morgan's great content. Before we begin,
and while I have your attention,I want to invite you to visit
(00:50):
our website, Creepy Unsolved dot com. It is your one stop shop for
all of our podcast episodes YouTube videosin the Creepy Unsolved block. Would you
like to support the show, Youcan do so for just two dollars a
month. That's less than the priceof a cup of coffee. Visit our
patrem link in the show notes below. One last thing before we begin,
(01:14):
please reach out to us. We'dlove to hear from you. Recently,
a listener reached out to us totell us his favorite episode was The Medieval
serial Killer. Do you have afavorite episode, a future story suggestion,
or something you want to say Hi, send us an email at Creepy Unsolved
Media at gmail dot com. Now, with all that out of the way,
(01:37):
let's begin. What is up Morgan? And you know, I've been
trying to get you on here forI think six months now, and every
time something that's came up, butI've finally got you on here and we're
happy to have you on. So, just for my listeners, do you
want to go over a little bitof your background so we know who we're
talking to tonight. Sure. So, I guess mainly known in the at
(02:00):
least in the public eye for bywork in television and for haunted hospitals,
Paranormal nine one one A Haunting andmultiple other millions of documentaries out there over
the last twenty years. But I'vebeen I've been doing this for about twenty
years and my program Teaching the Livinghas been in uh in circulation in a
(02:20):
lot of the post secondary education courseswithin Alberta and Canada. And I'm mainly
known for a lot of my liveshows and things like that, but also
bringing parapsychology to the forefront and makingsure that people are getting good information from
a basis of the parapsychological academia sideof the paranormal. And I try to
(02:44):
do that on my podcast as well, on Supernatural Circumstances with Mike Brown.
Yeah, I've listened to that podcast. It's great. Like I like how
you guys collab together on it.You know, once eye list to,
you each take a part of thestory and you'll tell your each segment.
Then you come together for different interviews. I really like how it's set up.
I'm really glad it's been such ahit, which has been great.
(03:04):
It's been received extremely well, andthat's been really exciting for us because I
think that the concept behind it wasto bring forward parapsychology in a way that
makes our nerdy subject really fun.And you know, and Mike and I
are both kind of nerds that way, and but we want to make it
fun for people because that's really what'smissing in a lot of parapsychology research and
(03:24):
things like that, because it isso academic minded, and we wanted to
bring some of these minds, becausethere's some of the most brilliant people on
the planet, you know, intothe same arena as the general public.
So the public can pick up onthis information as well. So it's been
a really really nice treat to beable to see so many people downloading the
(03:46):
podcast and really enjoying it and givingus really positive feedback. So I think
it's a boost for the parasychological communityin general, definitely. Now, I
just want to touch on it brieflyfor those who don't know what parapsychology is.
Is he kind of covered that inlike a nutshell. Then we'll jump
into tonight's topics. Sure, Imean, any I think anybody who's researching
the paranormal, if you don't knowthe term parapsychology, then you're not understanding
(04:11):
what the paranormal really is about.It's a scientific root study of bizarre phenomenon
psi phenomenon, and it covers everythingfrom telepathy to precognition to psychokinesis, hauntings.
To know all of those things,it is the root of studies that
go back hundreds of years. That'sso interesting and like I really heard about
it just listening to you. ThenI talked to doctor Elliott van dooson.
(04:34):
I hope I didn't mess his nameup. He was on here before.
He's a great guy. He wasa police officer in Canada for multiple years
and he got into that and thenstarted investigating other stuff. You talked about
your teaching courses up in Canada.Is this something that's more relevant in Canada?
And I think I've heard about inthe UK too. I don't really
hear about it in the US alot. Maybe I'm not looking in the
(04:54):
right spot. Well, actually,it's not a discipline that's even recognized in
Canada. It's recognized in the UnitedS dates PhDs are recognized in the US
and they're recognized in the UK.But Canada has contributed a massive amount to
the parapsychological field, although it's nottalked about near as much as the contributions
from both America and the and theUnited Kingdom, as well as Europe like
France and things like that. Soit's odd actually because Canada kind of has
(05:17):
this take a backseat attitude towards parapsychology. You know, we don't have the
conferences, we don't have the researcherswho are really out there discussing it,
and so I try to change that. My great great grandfather was the president
of the first Parasychological Association here inCanada in the eighteen hundreds, in early
nineteen hundreds. So for me,it's you know, it's it's really come
(05:40):
down through the family, and youknow, it's it's just not mentioned near
as much as what it should be. Yeah, definitely, Like that's that's
so cool to just have your familyroots tied into that. It's it's such
a cool lineage. Oh, it'sit's it's so awesome and you know,
and I didn't find out about ittill about six years into Entity Seeker forming
Entity Seeker research and teachings, whichis so but it was it was it
(06:00):
was meant to be. I think, yeah, definitely, it seems like
it now that we got that covered. You know, it's it's nice to
get your background and find out whoyou are. And I encourage everyone to
go out and listen to your podcast, Supernatural Circumstances. It's great. It
really dives into that too. Ilistened to one on I think near death
(06:21):
experiences, and that's that's always beena topic that interested me and it's just
it's just crazy to think about itand what might come of them experiences and
just crossing the line and back andforth and what's beyond this life into the
next. And it's just such aninteresting topic. It really is near death
experiences where they're they're so fascinating,and I think they are proving to be
(06:44):
one of the most grounded and mostI think it has the strongest potential for
evidence of life after death. Ohdefinitely, yeah, like I say,
and I encourage everyone to go listento your podcasts. It's great. There's
so much great content on there now. For the nights at eisde Laura mentioned
this to me that you had afriend with a dog man experience or something
(07:05):
like that, So I'd love tohear all about that. And I have,
you know, endless questions about this. You know, they're absolutely one
of my favorite phenomenon in the worldof weird things. And you know here
in Alberta we've got quite a lotof cryptids and strange creatures and things like
that. We're definitely not shy ofthose in Canada, but yeah, dogman
(07:26):
is definitely one of those critters,especially in Alberta. There's numerous accounts over
the years of people reporting them onhighways because we've got a lot of prairie
highways and things like that. Wealso have a very strong Indigenous roots here
in Alberta's and whatnot as well,which is often tied to the dogman phenomenon.
And I was fortunate enough to endup helping out in a case that
(07:49):
was not that far from me,but out in sort of this rural prairie
area. And when I first wentout there, I wasn't dealing with dogman
or anything like that at all.The family hadn't even mentioned that. I
was mainly dealing with a haunting thatwas going on within the within the house
and on the property. And wegot that, I got that kind of
under control, and you know,things were going along okay. And it
was about five years later I gota call from from her and that,
(08:13):
and I have to mention, thesethese two are the most grounded human beings
I can possibly even describe to youguys. They are so level. They
work in extremely disciplined industries and sothese aren't people that have flights of fancy
or anything like that. But theyphone the one the one day because her
husband, who was an extreme skepticbefore this, Like when I first met
(08:37):
this guy, he just did notime a day for any of this stuff.
And he had gone out to histruck. Then one day and they
live out on an acreage. Sothe acreage is basically grass and then there's
trees, like really thick forested treesall around this place, and his truck
was the only thing under under spotlight. It was the spotlight coming off the
garage And as he walked out thedoor, he turned on his heel and
(09:00):
walked right back in. And hiswife asked him, what what are you
doing. You know you're supposed tohe would go into work, and he
was like, nope, nope,can't go to work. And he was
white as a sheet. And shesaid what was going on? And he
said, well, he's like,there's a there's a werewolf in my truck.
There's a wolf in my truck.And she's staring at and going,
what the heck are you talking about? So she throws her coat on to
(09:22):
go outside, and she never ithad taken off, She never saw it,
but he was, yeah, hewas absolutely convinced, and he said,
no, this this thing was kneelingin the back of my pickup truck.
And it was huge, absolutely huge. So I was after that that
they didn't say anything to their kids, because they did they didn't want anybody
to be frightened or anything like that. And the kids had, you know,
long moved out. But when theirtheir daughter had come over the one
(09:45):
day and she had come out outthe garage and they kind of have a
Their house is next to a greatbig shop. The shop roof is quite
tall, and she opened the garagedoor and she looked up at the shop
roof and there was this creature sittingon the top of the shop roof and
it looked at her, and shelooked at it and she was thank god,
she was calm about it. Butshe closed the garage door and turned
(10:07):
around, came back in the house. She says, Mom, names a
wolf on your roof. There's awarwolf on your roof. And you know.
They said, yeah, we know, we know. All let us
explain this. And it went onwhere their son in law saw it as
well, and it was sort ofthe same same type of thing. Again,
very skeptical guy didn't believe in anyof this stuff. And he turned
(10:28):
around and came back in the houseagain. White is a sheet saying,
you know, this thing was sittingon the roof looking through the bedroom window
and had climbed up so what wethink what it was doing in the back
back of the truck the first timewas that it had climbed in the back
of the truck to step up tothe shop because that seemed to be where
it likes to sit, is theroof of the shop. So we anyway,
we ended up naming it Snoop becauseSnoopy likes to sit on the top
of doghouses, so and that's whereSnoopy seems to like to sit is on
(10:52):
the top of the shop. Soit's He's been a really interesting character.
That is so interesting. Now hashe been coming back? Is like a
one time occurrence with them all citingthis is this relevant? Well, their
system is this. Yeah, they'veseen him very clearly, like those three
times, extremely clearly they were atme, with me within meters of him.
(11:13):
But they've had other experiences with himwhere her husband at one point had
to change jobs and this was thiswas actually really interesting. He had just
changed jobs and he was going outto work out of the country brand new
places that he was working, andhe had gone next number of weeks and
she had come out to say goodbyeto him, and he was about to
get in the truck and things likethat, and they looked over and they
(11:33):
saw the glowing eyes in the woods, in the trees, and they thought,
hey, that's really interesting. Imean, they're very familiar with the
wildlife in the area, and thisthing is really big. And interestingly,
it followed him all the way upthe driveway in the state in the woods,
but followed him all the way upthe driveway. Yeah, really really
(11:54):
cool. And the only time thatI've nearly seen him, I was out
the acreage with another investigator and wehad come out to the car and our
car, the car was actually inthe same place that hit the husband's truck
had been. Yeah, and wegot the distinct impression that we were being
watched by a wild animal. Andyou totally can feel it. It's it's
(12:18):
a it's a sensation. And welooked in the woods and looked in the
woods, and we could see somethingstanding in the woods just beyond the tree
line. And in this place isout in the prairies, so if I
mean, you guys know prairies,it's black when it's night. It's night.
Um, So we couldn't see anydetail, but you could see something
that was quite tall and quite thinshifting in the trees, and it was
(12:41):
enough that we knew not to turnour backs on it. We're like,
hey, we're going to back upto the car, get in the car,
and go. And their dog,who is the biggest, friendliest,
fluffiest, laziest old thing you couldpossibly imagine, who never barks at anything,
like to the point where it alloweda porcupine to move into its doghouse
and still didn't bark at all.So you could get a clue about this
(13:03):
dog. But when we laughed,we got a text message from from the
wife. She said, you know, did you buy any chance see Snoopy
on the way out? And wesaid, yeah, we we're pretty sure
we saw Snoopy on the way out, And she said, yeah, it's
interesting because our dog Juno is barkinghis brains out at something in the woods
and and Snoopy's the only thing he'llbark at. So we thought that was
(13:24):
really interesting. So I think Iwas like really close actually seeing him,
but yeah, he stayed put.He's relatively harmless, like I mean,
he's never hurt anybody, he's neverchased anyone or anything like that. But
he's he's fascinating. It is veryfascinating. Now he said the red eyes.
Now I don't know yellow yellow eyes. Oh, yellow eyes. Okay,
it's interesting. I thought you saidred eyes. For a second,
(13:46):
I was gonna ask is that Idon't I don't know much about Bigfoot,
but I think big Foot has redeyes only sightings. Yeah, I've heard
mixed things about that, because Iknow there's been a lot of reports of
big Foot having eyeshine because they're typicallythey can be nocturnal, and it's been
thought that dog Man is the sameway because many many of the encounters,
it's been a situation where the peoplehave seen the eyeshine, which is typically
(14:09):
noctural animals, but with this guyat both my friends on the acreage have
described it this way, and manyother witnesses as well has described it not
just as eyeshine, but as almosta glow, a really soft glow.
And I always thought that was reallyintriguing, and I was never sure about
that when I was hearing it fromother witnesses, but these two reported the
(14:30):
same thing. They said, youknow, when he shifted his head back
and forth, normally with eyeshine,you can see a flicker because that light
is not being reflected from one sideto the other, and she said the
glow never never flickered, and Ithought that was really an interesting observation.
Yeah, I was just going toask you about that, if it because
I think you answered that when youwere on with me on my show,
(14:50):
if it was the glow or theeyeshine. Yeah, it's an interesting thing
because it's just a strange sort ofsoft glow and as i'm they're not the
first to report it, it seemsto be something that's almost that kind of
that eth Reel type essence is.I don't know, it's fascinating. I've
even heard like up in Canada,but I think you're kind of centralized.
(15:13):
There's this weird place. It's kindof more above the east coast of the
United States. So I don't evenknow what territory that is up in there,
but I'm sure you do. Butthere's this camp and I've heard that
there's been sightings of bigfoot with blueeyes. That's just crazy, really interesting.
Yeah, I mean, we've gotwe've got a lot of big foot
sightings in Alberta as well. Wehave, especially around Nordegg and northern Alberta,
(15:35):
and during the lockdowns there was evensightings closer to the cities like Calgary
and things like that, where theywere coming quite close to the city,
so I think just comfortable with thefact that people weren't around. So we've
had quite a few here, lotin bamp A Ton in British Columbia off
the island and things like that.It's massive, massive hotspot for things like
(15:56):
sasquatch, but not so much inthe prairies of Alberta because there's really nowhere
to go. Alberta is very muchlike Wisconsin and in that regard where we've
got a lot of open prairie,a lot of open farmland with these kind
of tree clusters and until you getright into the mountains in the Rockies and
and things like that in Alberta.But for the most part, like you
know, Alberta's kind of prairie farmtownkind of kind of reminds me of like
(16:18):
Kansas or Indiana or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
very similar. And one of thereasons, you know, I bring that
up because a lot of the dogmansightings are very much located in country rural
areas. So the more famous oneslike Beast Bray Road and Michigan Dogman,
and it's all very rural type settingswhere you've got a lot of farmland,
(16:40):
a lot of country, but treeclusters in different places, and that seems
to be what this is as well. Now, what's the story behind the
Michigan Dogman. Michigan Dogman is reallyinteresting because it's been kind of associated with
the Beast Bray Road with a fewdifferences been described differently in terms of fur
color and aggression level. Seems tobe a little bit different. People seem
to be a little bit more nervousaround Michigan dog Man than the Beast of
(17:03):
Bray Road, and there's been thoughtsthat they are kind of a bit different,
but it seems to be generally thesame phenomenon over and over and over
again. A lot of the encountersare centralized around a little town called Holly,
and Holly is known as Christmas CardCount because it's very picturesque little little
community, but it's known out againand out in these these backwoods that you
know, you don't run into theMichigan dog Man because it'll you know,
(17:25):
it eats carrion and a lot ofroadkill and stuff like that. So there's
been a lot of sightings over theyears between Michigan dog Man and Beast of
Bray Road, which go back tothe nineteen thirties, but dogmen in general,
I mean you can go right backinto medieval France to some of these
different locations, like stories like theBeast of Jebudon and things like that.
So I mean the encounters with thesethings you can trace back very very long
(17:51):
time. Yeah, it's interesting.It stems its roots all the way back
there. Yeah. Oh yeah,the farmland sightings and I know you covered
that story to Morgan and your Dogmanepisode. Shannon LaGrow has an episode of
the Judge in Ohio forget like acertain county or something. But that is
you haven't heard that story you neededto go find on into the fray,
(18:12):
Shannon Lgrow. What is it called, like Dogman of Ohio or something,
could be something like that. Yeah, I can't remember the title of the
podcast. White the story and oneof the very few stories where it's been
suspected that dogman hunting packs. Acouple of other encounters that have come up
over the years where people have seenmore than one in a group, but
typically they seem to be very muchloners. I've heard some crazy pack dog
(18:37):
man stories. I gotta send youthat episode. It's yeah, he's got
to see it. He's got tohear it because it's I want to hear.
I'll probably let's do it. Afterthis, you won't go to sleep.
I don't think I got tomorrow off, so I'll be all right.
Oh okay, I was gonna say, I've heard some crazy dog man pack
stories with people going out there andtrying to handle them and stuff like that.
(18:59):
It kind of makes sense that theywould hunting packs if their roots are
stemmed from like wolves. But Idon't know, is it are they directly
tied into that or what? Doyou think? I don't know. I
mean I think I don't think theseare are physical animals by any means.
I mean, it doesn't make sense. If you look at the evolutionary scale,
it doesn't make any sense because atno point in human did humans and
dogs diverge, you know, soevolutionary wise, it doesn't make any sense
(19:22):
at all. So I think whateverthese things are, they they've got to
be some sort of either thought formor or something we just quite frankly don't
understand yet. Because they are theyseem to be so just their lifespan is
excessively long. The Beast of BrayRoad, for instance, as I say,
he's been around since the thirties,you know, and he's still reported
(19:44):
to this day. I've got afriend of mine who's been out of the
farmland on Bray Road recently and hashad encounters with it. So, I
mean, there's a lot of factors, and I think many people throw in
the fact well, you know,well they eat carrion, or they eat
this, or they well don't knowthat. We know that they're picking up
food and doing something that looks likeeating. We've seen them, you know,
(20:06):
pick up food and take food away. We know that, you know,
they interact with the environment and thingslike that. Do we know that
they eat, No, we don't. We've never found scat, We've never
found you know, anything like that. Or you know, there's a lot
of things that we don't we don'tknow about them. And some ways they
definitely mimic the behavior of canines interms of even down to fur color change
(20:26):
in fur color, which is usuallyan environmental factor. But at the same
time, you know, they doa lot of things that just it really
don't make sense. Put it onthe on the map of something that is
just a dog that's up running ontwo legs, because dogs simply don't have
the physical bone structure to be ableto get up and run on two legs.
That they just can't do it.Yeah, yeah, like it.
Almos supposes the question, are theymore related to whatever Bigfoot is? What
(20:47):
do you think about that? Yeah, it's it's an interesting thought. I
mean, I think for me,I find Bigfoot is a little bit more
tangible in terms of it's it's physicality, and not that one is more realistic
than the other. I just I'mnot sure they fall into the same category
simply because you know, you've gota lot of primatologists and hominologists and whatnot
that do so much work into theBigfoot arena, where you know, they
(21:10):
they're getting prints that seem to haveyou know, physical lines and their feet
and the you know, the midtarsal break and you know, all of
these various things, and there's alot more physical evidence surrounding Bigfoot than there
is dogment where dogmen are seen,you know, disappearing into mist or they're
captured on trailcams as mists, andthen the mist seems to take the food
from the bait or you know,take the bait and then disappears and you
(21:34):
never catch it on film, orwith things like like Bigfoot, you can
at least you know, you canget it on camera, like people have
these far more physical encounters with it. So so I don't know. I
mean, I guess it's it's possible, but I just I guess. I
in my head, I always seethem as something that's a little bit more
like a something that's that's more biologicalthan than Dogman is. Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense too.I wonder if we're more caught up in
(21:57):
Bigfoot, those that why we havemore footage and we're not looking for the
dog Man. I mean, I'msure there's there's just as many people looking
for the dog Man. I don'tknow. Yeah, that's a it's a
good point, you know, Likebecause Dogman over the last number of years
is that's when it's become so muchmore popular. It feels like it's blown
up, like I think it reallyhas, and you know, everybody's attention
(22:18):
is on it because it's it's newand it's really weird, and I think
a lot of people are coming forwardbecause they're realizing, oh wait, Okay,
I'm not totally crazy. You know, there are other people out there
they've seen this, so I thinkthere's there's that aspect of it as as
well. But you know, itdoes bring up a good point, you
know, is is it because they'rejust simply being noticed more now and you
know, we just haven't been botheredin the past. I think there's a
(22:41):
few different factors with Dogman that thatcome into play that don't play with big
Foot, And as I say,one of them being trail camp footage and
things like that. Of these thingsof you know, mists coming into the
trail camp, the trail camp obviouslyfiring because it's seeing some sort of mass,
and then you know, the foodunderneath trailcam disappearing and then the mist
(23:02):
disappears and the food's gone. Stufflike that, like you don't really see
with Bigfoot as much. So Idon't know, we could be dealing with
something that is just completely not understoodby by people as of yet, you
know, or it could be justbe something where our technology hasn't caught up
with what's going on. Just allusually true, Yeah, definitely, Like
(23:22):
I can't wait to see what theyears come and bring to the Dogman community
and see if it grows to theheight of you know, Bigfoot like almost
like I want to say, changewith a guard or anything. But they
are becoming more prevalent and there's alot of good channels and documentaries being made
about the dog Man, So Ihope it brings that community together and helps
that rise. So we can kindof give some information behind that. Yeah,
(23:45):
I hope so too, because youknow, like what's so neat to
me about dog man as well asthat they are often seen, you know,
around burial grounds. They're often seenaround places where there has been you
know, burials, whether it beyou know, first nations or like cemeteries
and things like that. And theone thing that that old Snoopy here has
has taught me is that they reallyare about listening and they're about being able
(24:08):
to instead of going out and huntingfor them. And the way that investigators
often do they go pursue that doesn'twork with Dogma. You can't go do
that with Dogma. And I thinkhe's eliciting new skills from investigators and things
like that because they seem to bequite smart, they seem to be quite
aware, and I know with Snoopy. It's been interesting because my friends and
(24:30):
I hear at the acres, likewe've we've had a lot of discussion about
this and that it very much seemsto be a protector of the space and
a protector with information and information thatwe don't necessarily have because there's a lot
on the acres I won't go into, but there's a lot of the acres
on the property that's quite a bitof a mystery to everybody. And you
know, we're beginning to understand that. In order to I think, understand
(24:53):
that information and connect with whatever thisis, we've got to go out there
and be still. We have togo out there and listen. We have
to go out there and just bepresent. And I think that's what ends
up bringing bringing Snoopy a little bitcloser. As soon as you vote there
with a camera or you vote there, you know, trying to record something
(25:15):
or whatever, they're gone, likethey're like gone gone, So you know,
yeah, I think I think they'rehere to teach, and I think
if we can I think if wecan understand that and understand that there's there's
something more to them than just youknow, let's go out with a camera
and get a photo that I think, I think there's a lot that we
can learn from them. Didn't youguys have trail cans up there, and
(25:37):
weren't they like triggering like crazy andgoing off and they were working correctly,
but you had kept shared none ofthe images. Yeah, and there was
one time where we had four hundredphotos just fire off with nothing in them.
And I mean, and we've beendiligent and posting them because they're they're
very much outdoorsy people and hunt andthings like that, so they, you
know, they're well aware of,you know, how to set these things
(26:00):
up. And we've caught every animalon the planet. I mean, we've
had foxes and ravens and moose andall, you know, all sorts of
crazy things. But yeah, everyonce in a while we'll get a rash
of photos and they all get downloadedto a cell phone and all of a
sudden they'll just be foreigner photos,just boom boom. And so we've had
that happen a few times with notrigger. And we've also had it where
(26:22):
the camera itself has triggered once andthe photo is completely blacked out, completely
obliterated except for a very subtle lightthat seems to be emanating from the center
of it, and we still havenot explained that it doesn't. Yeah,
it doesn't seem to be an animalthat's like, you know, crossing in
front of the photo or the orthe lands or anything like that. We
(26:44):
don't know what the heck is causingit. And that's happened twice so far,
so we're still trying to figure thatone out. But this is a
new one to me. It's atotally yeah, it's totally new. I
mean, the cameras shouldn't do that. So and if it hadn't been something
coming into the shot, you know, you would have seen it trigger and
capture these other photos. And there'snothing like that. It's just all of
a sudden you get this sort ofobliterated photo that's that's downloaded and it makes
(27:06):
no sense whatsoever. So that's thething with this place and with Snoopy is
that there is always there's always atwist and there's always a turn, and
you just have to be on yourtoes and go, okay, now what
now, what's this? It almostsounds like they have some sort of like
supernatural ability then, or there's somethingthat's a radiating from them that's messing with
technology. Well, it's definitely beensomething that's that's been thrown around. My
(27:32):
friends out at Brey Road who've beeninvestigating that, my friend Eric Mantel,
they've been dealing with that quite extensively. Brown Bree Road as well, where
there's just been really weird malfunctions andand things like that. And this place
has very unique electromagnetic field signatures aswell. There's nothing at all underground at
this place. My friends built thisplace from the ground up and there's no
(27:53):
electrical there's no cable, there's nonothing. No one had ever settled on
this land before, so it's beencompletely empty of, you know, anything
that could possibly be triggering an EMFmeter. And we know it's not natural
because the type of meter that we'reusing it's not meant to pick upon natural
electromagnetic fields. It is supposed tobe calibrated to wiring and things like that,
so it's not water running underneath theground or anything. But we get
(28:15):
these very very strange spikes that willjust show up and they'll flatline the meter.
They'll be super super high, andthen all of a sudden they'll drop
right off again, and there's nothing, and when you go back to the
spot to try to catch it again, it's gone. And so there it's
just another thing that seems to beup and down and there's not really any
brime or reason to it, butit's it's another just piece of the puzzle
(28:36):
that we don't don't understand yet.That's like such a cool experience, Steven
Half, I want to be involvedand stuff like that. That sounds awesome.
We always see it as such ablessing because it's it's one of those
things that you know you're never probablygoing to experience again. And yeah,
and I'm hoping that one day Iget I get to see Snoopy a little
(28:56):
closer than what I did that night, because he's become very acial and very
endearing to the acreage, and Ithink even the family I was headed out
with her. We did a daytrip the other day and she she had
said to me, you know,I don't know if I could ever move,
because you know where I have tobring Snoopy with us. I just
it would just be weird not tohave him there. And so he's really
(29:17):
become a staple in everybody's life andwe just kind of know he's there and
it's yeah, it's it's really lovely. But he's become really special. That's
so nice. Yeah, I packup Snoopy and say let's go down the
road. Yeah, you get ridein the back of the truck. Hey
er, you know it's barely buthe seems. So we can transition into
(29:44):
the window goes now, because that'sanother topic I just love hearing about and
talking about, and I know youare pretty well researched into it, so
I can't wait to hear all youhave to share about that. So I
guess to start at the beginning,we talk about what exactly a window go
is and where the stories came from. Well, the one thing it's really
interesting about When to Goo is thatno matter how far back you go,
(30:04):
you can't figure out where it began. He's one of the few folkloreish creatures
spiritual creatures that you can't really finda beginning to, which I find is
really unique because you know, mostof these creatures can you can kind of
figure out. Even with dog Man. You know, you look back at
ancient Egypt and Anubis and things likethat, you can see this sort of
(30:26):
dogheaded upright canad figure that moved throughouthistory, but this guy, you can't
really figure out where he started from. And I find that really interesting about
when to go. All we haveto learn about these things is through the
First Nations people and the stories,because it really is theirs. They're the
ones that teach about this the bestbecause this is you know, what they
(30:47):
know. So for me, it'sbeen a really interesting journey. But for
the public who doesn't know what thesethese are. The earliest reports were based
out of the Algonquin people where theyhad said that during time times of famine
and trauma and the cold, coldwinter months, what would happen is that
there was almost this consciousness, thisentity that was birthed from that trauma and
(31:10):
famine, and it would possess somebodyif they if it saw you or you
had an encounter with it, andit could either attack you and kill you
and eat you, or it wouldturn around and possess you and you would
then become a wend ago and begina transformation and you would begin to be
accountable and eat, eat your familyand friends and things like that. Um,
(31:33):
but they're said. Descriptions have beenall over the map. Everything from
something that's very tall and lanky andcanid looking to something that is um,
you know, almost like a grayalien to all those these these short,
short little creatures that would would runaround there. Depending on which culture you
you know, drift to, andwhat area you're you're in, the physical
(31:56):
descriptors are different, but the onecommon denoma that runs through all of them
is that they're tall, thin,and excessively emaciated. Sometimes they're missing pieces
of their face, like their lipsand things like that, because they are
insatiably hungry, and the more theyeat, the hungrier they get, and
the more they eat, the biggerthey get. So it's a it's a
(32:17):
horrific like piece of folklore, butthe basis for it in reality is I
think even more terrifying. Yeah,I've heard a lot of stories about you
know, like you said, themore they eat, the bigger they get,
And I think that's one of themost terrifying like aspects of it,
Like is just based off the size. You can tell how many victims you
(32:39):
know, they said, windico ahead. But yeah, the actual I guess
the theme of the story around thereis what I get from. I'm not
saying this is the theme, butto not turn on your brothers and sisters
and harsh times and stuff like that. I think that really draws from that
story, you know, because,like you said, the Algonquin tribe,
they're faced with these harsh winners andyou know a lot of time they went
(33:01):
long periods of time well food andwater and the resource you need to survive.
And there was a story that youprobably know about a famous case of
windigo psychosis where one native ended upeating his family. You want to talk
about that a little bit. Sure, it happened actually about thirty minutes from
(33:22):
my house, and I didn't knowthat. Yeah, and yeah. It
was the case of swift Runner.And he began in a little community that
is north of Edmonton where I amcalled Legal and Legal. It was a
settlement that was predominantly Cree and therewas a multiple little settlements kind of around
(33:45):
It wasn't legal at the time.There was a multiple little settlements around there.
And what had happened was that hehad been expelled from the community during
the wintertime and it were it's unclearthroughout history as to why that happened.
There's references to the fact that hemight have been an alcoholic, that his
behavior wasn't so great there's like there'sa few different there's a few different takes
(34:06):
on that, but history is somewhatunclear as to why he was booted out.
But he and his family, therewas nine of them, ended up
camping out in the winter at aplace called Egg Lake. And this was
about eighteen ninety six that this happened. So during that time, a lot
of European missions and things like thathad moved into Alberta, and there was
(34:27):
a lot of genocide that was goingon. So there's a lot of trauma
that was already happening within Alberta withthe Europeans coming in and just completely dismantling
the First Nations people, and itwas pretty horrific from that side of things.
But so meanwhile, the swift Runnerwas a huge guy, big strapping
guy, was about six foot five, about three hundred pounds. This guy
was no lightweight. And they knewhim at these Catholic missions in Saint albert
(34:51):
And like all of these locations,they knew him because he was a trapper
and he was a guide. Andso anyway, one of these springs,
he had come down from Egg Lakeand he knocked on the door of this
mission, which is to say,is about a half hour drive from me,
and it's still there. And afellow by the name of father Lacom
answered and he said, you knowwhat's going on? And Swiffer proceeded to
(35:13):
tell him that, you know,this was one of the worst winters we'd
ever had. My families died ofstarvation. I'm the only one left.
He was just claiming that he wasa complete disaster, and yet they looked
at him and he wasn't a completedisaster. He was of pretty good weight,
He looked pretty decent. He didn'tlook like somebody who had been out
there for you know, starving forsix months. So they let him in
(35:35):
and throughout the nights they were hearinghim freaking out in his bed, screaming
bloody murder that the wendigo was comingthrough his window trying to get him.
They couldn't figure out what the heckwas going on, and they were they
were kind of writing it off,like, Okay, he's been through trauma.
They didn't really understand what the youknow, wendigo was because these were,
you know, a bunch of whitepeople and they just didn't get it.
(35:57):
Clueless and it didn't understand what washappened. So anyway, Swifturner was
helping in and around this basically whatit was a residential like a residential school,
because they had all the kids thereand whatnot. He had said,
you know, I'd really like totake the kids camping into the woods and
hiking. And there was something aboutthis that all the other adults there were
like, no, no, we'renot doing this with you. They said,
(36:17):
no, I don't think so.I don't think that's a good idea.
And at that point they called theNorthwest Mounted Police because they were asking
him questions like where is your family, like what is going on? And
he wasn't clear and he wasn't answering. So the Northwest Mounted Police came down
and they said, look like you'regoing to take us back to the camp
site as and you need to showus what happened. And so anyway,
(36:38):
Swifturner ended up taking them around incircles. They kind of had him drugged
up on this tobacco plug that theyhad and they wanted to try to elicit
the truth out of him if hewas a little bit more chilled out and
relaxed, and he led them allover Hell's half Acre and by the time
they got two egg lay he walkedout. It was said in the police
(36:58):
records. He walked out to thecenter of this lake and he howled,
and everybody just looked at him,like what in the heck is going on?
And he said something to the effectiveAnd it was here that I ate
the last of my children. Theydiscovered the campsite, and the campsite was
absolutely gruesome. He had completely killedand dismembered every single one of the members
of his family. He'd eaten them, He'd boiled the bones down, he
(37:20):
sucked the marrow out, and theyfound a skull with a child's moccasin stuffed
into the eyehole. He had justdecimated the family and killed them individually,
one by one. It wasn't somethinglike he just massacred everybody at once.
It was one by one. Soit was absolutely horrific. He was the
first legal hanging in Alberta at FortSaskatchewan, the Fort Saskatchewan Museum. You
can still go and visit, buthe was the first legal hanging. My
(37:44):
friend Matt and I we ended upgetting ahold of the guards journals and even
the guards and the sergeants there,Like no one wanted to watch him because
right up until the end he wasclaiming and screaming that the Wendigo was trying
to get in his cell and killhim. And he held that story to
the end of his days. Soit was, yeah, just a horrific
story. But probably one of themwas infamous when it comes to wend to
(38:06):
Go, but not the only onein Alberta either. Oh really, that's
the main one I know about.I want to hear about that. But
I just just want to get thisin here, like this story speaks volumes
for the story of the wind toGo, Like this was no joke to
the First Nations people, and no. And I talked a little bit with
Chad Lewis. I had him onmy podcast way back at the beginning.
He even told me like when hewent to do different events for his book
(38:30):
and stuff, when he went tothese different native places, they asked him
not to say the name because that'show powerful it is among them. But
I do want to hear about morestories. Oh yeah, there's there's a
lot. There's some up around SlaveLake here that we're quite terrifying as well.
They had instances where there was afellow who was basically had to be
(38:50):
tied down and asked to be tieddown because he believed that, you know,
he had seen the wend to goand the need to eat was so
bad and they need to eat thepeople around him was so bad that he
said, you absolutely cannot let meout of this chair. And you know,
the family was like, well,you know, that sounds a little
crazy, and he's like, no, you don't understand. Like I'm looking
at my kid right now, andher face looks pretty good, like it
(39:15):
was pretty horrific, Like this issome pretty horrific, scary stuff. And
so what's interesting, though, isthat when you get into I think it's
so easy for people to write thisstuff off as things like, oh,
it's mental illness or you know,oh they were in hard time, so
this is what happened, and soon and so forth. But the reality
is there's no basis for this beingmental illness at all. And when you
(39:36):
look into the idea of when togo psychosis, there's a lot of it
that it absolutely does not explain.Like there's a lot of physical symptoms for
people who are experiencing this phenomenon,like a raft that breaks out on their
hands and feet. There's oftentimes itcomes with a wicked fever and swelling of
the face and limbs. There's alot that doesn't add up to something that
is completely psychological. I think forpeople to turn around and say, oh,
(39:59):
it's so when it goes like hossand we're just going to label it
as that because you know, thesepeople, if the first nations people don't
know what they're talking about, isa grave error. You know, there's
oftentimes when it comes to legends andwhen it comes to any of this type
of lore, this stuff is putin place for a reason and there is
usually a kernel of truth in it, whether or not it's you know,
(40:22):
a legend can be true, itcan be false, but it's always right
every time, and there's always somethingin there that is correct. And as
far as I understand, there reallyis no explanation at this point for whatever
the weendigo phenomenon is. But whateverit is seems to be born and birth
from this incessant trauma. I'm alsoabout twenty minutes away from another place where
(40:45):
there was a whend Togo encounter aswell, which was at a local hospital
here in Alberta, and it waswithin the last fifty years. I would
say that it happened, but therewas said to be a whend to go
possession and it happened at this hospitalas well. And I know one of
the doctors who sat in on thison the exorcism, so there was and
again it was it was a firstnation's hospital and things like that. So
(41:07):
you know, up until very veryrecently, there's still encounters and things going
on that I think you have tobe. We have to be very very
careful of what's out there. Yeah, definitely, Like I talked about when
it goes a little bit when Ifirst started this podcast, where I knew
what I was doing, and itled me down researching other stories, and
I came across the Vince Lee story, and that one is horrifying. Man.
(41:28):
I talked a little bit about thatforever ago, Like I don't remember
every detail about it, so I'mnot going to talk about it right now.
But if that's just it's crazy ifyou have time to look into that
one. Oh yeah, no,it happened a couple of provinces over was
Manitoba and Vince Lee. You know, he's he's released out on bail now
and has been for a while.But yeah, it's it's interesting. There's
(41:51):
there's been a lot of cases thathave been over the years, you know,
attributed to a possible you know,when to go psychosis and things like
that. There was one not thatlong ago in Russia where it had all
the hallmarks again of something like thishappening. But yeah, you know what
I've what I learned when I firststarted to delve into the Wind to Go
and to understand it. I havea very close friend of mine who has
(42:12):
had some very strange things happened inregards to this, and when we first
started to delve into it, youknow, I had always kind of labeled
it as something that was legend.And my journey with this phenomenon specifically has
really opened my eyes to looking atthese types of stories so differently. And
we cannot as a society afford tobe writing these things off and dismissing them
(42:37):
as something that is just you know, oh, it's just silly folklore,
or it's you know, it's it'sjust their way, uneducated way of explaining
something that's explainable, and things likethat. It's just that's not true.
The more we start to understand this, and the more we start to pay
attention and actually look at this phenomenonfor what it is. The weirder it
gets and the harder it is tocast us and explain. And it's one
(43:00):
of the very few folklore I guessI hate to call it a story,
but one of the very few folklorereports where there is dead bodies and dead
people attached to this. There arecriminal cases attached to this, and you
know, that's as real as youget. Yeah, and like the whole
lord behind it is so powerful.They had When to Go Hunters, Oh
(43:21):
yeah, yeah, Jack Fidler,Jack Fidler, Yeah, Yeah, there's
you know, and there's been multipleover the years where you know, people
have claimed that that's what they youknow, that's what they are, that's
what they do, or you knowwhatever. But and as the stories,
some of the stories are just horrific. There is one moota Fello by the
name of Moose Tous and Chad whowe mentioned, wrote about it in his
book When to Go Lore, andit's probably one of the most gruesome stories
(43:43):
I've ever read. But it's it'salso an illustration of the power of fear
and how far people will go whenthey really believe that there is something like
this that's happening. And I thinkno matter what type of story it is,
whether we're talking about the When toGo or they were talking about the
Jersey Devil or whatever, people don'tdo this kind of thing for nothing,
you know, Like when we lookat, say, for example, like
(44:06):
the Jersey Devil in in nineteen onine and they shut down and locked down
that town, when you know,everybody was terrified that Jersey Devil was there,
and they locked down that town.We all know now what it is
for the government to lock us down, Like there's oh yeah, we don't
do it for nothing. We doit for something, you know. And
that was really interesting with with youknow, things like the Wendigo and whatnot,
(44:30):
when you've got people saying, no, we are not leaving our house
because that's there, that's out there. So it's really intriguing to me when
when you see a community like thatrespond in that kind of a way,
because it's like, you know,you might not agree with why they're doing
it, but they're not doing itfor no reason. I can agree more.
(44:51):
I do want to give you timeto talk about your book, because
I know you just re released it. It did buy a copy and I'm
waiting. I'm finishing up with anotherbook right now. I'm going to jump
into it. So I want youto give you a chance to talk about
that a little bit in your podcastand everything else you're involved with. We'll
take you next like ten minutes andwe'll dive into that, so everyone knows
where to find all of your greatcontent. Oh, thank you. You
(45:13):
know it's yeah, it's It's beenan interesting journey with that book. So
I rereleased Teaching the Living from Heartbreakto Happiness in a Haunted Home just this
past year and in the last coupleof months, and it was such a
treat because I got to rewrite itin a way that was that added about
a good one hundred and fifty pagesthe book and an update and update information
(45:36):
and whatnot. I'm really really proudof it. And it really is a
book for anybody who is feeling powerlessin a situation where there they feel like
they're experiencing paranormal stuff that they can'texplain. It's a deep dive from the
parapsychological standpoint into how you can dealwith this, how you can empower yourself
through understanding your own emotions and yourown role that you're playing within this environment
(46:00):
because it's not happening to you,it's also happening through you. So it's
it's really about you taking your powerback and learning along the way. You
know how other cultures, other communitiesand things like that have figured this out
as well. So it's about findingyour joy, it's about empowerment. It's
about really taking a deep dive inconnecting with more of who you are so
(46:20):
you can have a better relationship withnon physical energy around you. And so
that was the goal of the book. And it's available on Amazon and my
website, Entity Seeker dot c Aand Entity Seeker dot ca is like the
hub for pretty much everything. It'sthere's links to everything I've done, all
my live shows, videos, podcast, Supernatural Circumstances. For those of you
guys who don't go to the website, Supernatural Circumstances is available on every podcast
(46:45):
platform you can imagine, iHeartRadio,Spotify, Google, Apple, the works,
so you can't really miss it.And the next season of Haunted Hospitals,
which we season four should be comingout in the next hopefully the next
couple of months, so that'll beyou know, Tenny and Travel Travel Channel
(47:06):
Oh, okay, is that travelchannel? Because I was just about to
ask you where that was and canthe US get that? Or is that
just in Canada? Um? No, it's a Tienny network. Is Canada
Travel? Yeah? I figure us. And then it's also on Discovery Plus
and so it's streaming. Yeah,so it's streaming. So if people people
(47:27):
have that, then you know,wait for Discovery Plus because it'll be on
there. Yeah. Yeah, myfriend, Um, nobody's listening to this
right. My friend gave me yourpassword for a Discovery Plus because I wanted
to watch the Dead Files. Sonow I can totally check that out because
I've been wondering about that. Ihaven't watched your show, and I definitely
want to. It's always cool whenyou see someone you know. You're like,
(47:50):
hey, I know that person likeI have. I was talking to
you last time. I think itwas you. I have all these books
that I have signed by all thesepeople that I'm like friends with now,
and I'm like, this is socool. It's so nice because it's such
a it's a good community. Yeah, I met so many friends and I
was just thinking tonight, I'm like, I feel like I don't really talk
to my old friends as much asI talked to the new people that I've
(48:12):
met, because I can just letmy walls down and just yeah, speak
to them freely and they don't evenblink at me and crazy because I get
like I can just I can justsense it that some of my friends are
just like, okay, right right, but it's just cool. Well,
(48:35):
it's been a blast. Thank youso much Morgan for coming on here.
We'll have to do that again.Oh, I'd love to thank you guys.
It was about time we finally gotit to work, so I know,
man, everything kept coming up andI finally made it. Sorry,
it was worth the weight, soit's all good. I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, big guys. That is it for this one.
(49:00):
Thank you so much for joining us. If you have questions about today's
episode, or if you'd like toreach out to us directly, you can
do so by sending us an emailat Creepy Unsolved Media at gmail dot com.
Until next time, be sure tocheck out our awesome content by simply
visiting Creepy Unsolved dot com. Ifyou are active on YouTube, be sure
(49:23):
to check out our channel over thereunder the name Creepy Unsolved. Also,
while you wait for the next episodeof Creepy Unsolved, be sure to leave
us a rating and review. Thiswill help our podcast grow. Until next
time. This is Dylan signing off.
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