November 13, 2024 • 52 mins
In this episode of Crew Table, we welcome Natalie Anne, one of Australia’s leading hairdressers, educators, and entrepreneurs, known for her award-winning products and transformative impact on the beauty industry. With a career spanning 24 years, Natalie shares her inspiring journey from salon stylist to global beauty mogul. We discuss her experiences in bridal hairstyling, managing a top salon, product development, and working with celebrity clients like TLC and Desi Perkins. Natalie dives into her approach to education and mentorship, adapting to trends like short-form content, and her decision to step away from hands-on styling to focus on product innovation and family priorities.
Tune in as Natalie opens up about balancing motherhood with a demanding career, managing creative fatigue, and navigating the challenges of the beauty industry. Plus, she shares insights on current hair trends—think braids, stacked accessories, and sleek, wet looks—and offers invaluable advice for aspiring hairdressers and business owners. Join us for an engaging and insightful conversation that sheds light on the highs, lows, and constant evolution required to stay at the forefront of beauty.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Deep in my eyes, Natalie. Sultry eyes.
Natalie Ann, welcome to the crewtable.
Hi how you doing? I'm actually really excited to
be here. Me too.
I'm really excited you're. Here I'm used to like doing
talent, not being the talent in this room, so it's very nice.
Oh, sweetheart, you are the talent.
Stop. You know what?
But it's cute. I'm like the setup.
(00:31):
I'm very well. Your brother did it.
It's amazing. So you better like it.
And if you don't like it? I know.
Bring your complaints that way. Take it home with you.
I will, yeah. But he's done a really good job.
And congratulations. I'm super excited for you.
What a new chapter. I know it just, you know,
happened. I love that you just did it.
Yeah, it actually didn't just happen.
It took months and months. Yeah, but like you actually did
(00:52):
it. I feel like people talk about it
and talk about it and talk aboutit, but they never do it.
So congratulations. Thank you.
For doing it, it's very scary. It's scary to like listen to
your own voice because no one likes their own voice.
And I'm a very hyena person. But it's also scary because it's
like, definitely one likes it, but who cares?
I know amazing friends that it'slike, I don't give a shit if I
(01:14):
have this as a time capsule. That's all I'm happy with.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
So if you flip the narrative slightly in your mind and just
see it as this really cool scrapbook of you and your mates,
like you could document this andin, you know, 50s time, go back
and play it to your kids. And sell it to HBO.
(01:36):
Or that or that. Or that I got my daughter to see
for like 2 seconds. She popped in and she screamed
the ABC so loud. Daniel, how funny was it?
Did you have to control her idea?
Yeah. And then she wanted to sing
Happy birthday. Like, thanks.
Thanks for your contribution. Very meaningful SO.
Cute. I'm going to dive right into it
because I know this is going to be a massive on and it's going
to be a mammoth one and there's going to be so many people
(01:57):
wanting to tune onto this. Brides, business owners,
hairdressers, all the in between.
Amazing anyone in the beauty space or anyone that really
wants to know about E commerce education and just honest any
woman that's married that has any job role I feel like is
going to want to know this. Awesome.
No pressure. So many topics that I want to
kind of dive into, but obviouslyNatalie Ann, you're incredible.
(02:22):
You're mogul in your own field and you're 1 of Australia's
leading hairdressers. You have an award winning
product, you've won multiple awards.
I'm not even going to bother go through the list because I don't
even know all of them, but I just, it's too long to go
through. And you're globally recognised,
I guess, as an influencer in my eyes and I know in everyone's
(02:45):
eyes, which is pretty incrediblebecause Daniel and I were kind
of talking about this earlier and you started 24 years ago.
And then I don't know at what point, but everyone just feels
like you're a household name forthe longest time.
But you became an influencer in so many people's life without
actually being an influencer. Yes, you were just a hairdresser
(03:08):
uploading her work, doing her thing, and then became this huge
little mogul. And I say little because you're
so little. Like huge little mogul.
It's the veganism, you know? It's the veganism for me, man,
If I could, if I could run on that being like, and I would.
But now I can't do it. Yeah, it's good on you.
But you're a powerhouse and you have, I think, one of the
(03:30):
greatest things for me, looking at like, your journey this far,
is how you've really tapped into, like, perfecting your
craft as a hairdresser. Yeah, killing the bridal game.
And I'm in the wedding space. I know how hard that is.
No one knows how hard it is to be in the wedding industry and
then sit in it. It's very difficult.
It's so draining, so rewarding, but so draining at times.
(03:53):
Then you would also do education, then run a salon,
then launch products. Yeah.
And then also tap into the celebrity market, which I feel
like that in itself I'd fate like it's.
You did well. Yeah, I did well.
Fashion Week. I know, but I'm talking about
like the celebs. You get the celeb celebs, you
(04:13):
know, you get the, the US celebs, you know what I'm
talking about? I do.
Who's the biggest celebrity you've touched here with it?
Depends on who you're talking to.
Like like for me, I feel like the most nostalgic celebrity
I've worked with is TLC. But like depending on who's
(04:34):
listening, they'll be like lol, you know, because like not
people don't think about the next generation, don't know who
they are. Did you know?
But for me, that was a pinch me moment because like I had them
on my scrapbook. Like, you know, growing up at
school. I'd like record it.
It was like your phone ringtone where you'd hold it to the.
(04:54):
Speaker And then I'd probably say most relevant, and I'd
definitely call her a celebrity,is Daisy Perkins.
Holy moly. Yeah, that was because of I.
Didn't know that guy. No way.
He like, chased her down in Vegas.
It's like, hey, my sister's here, she's a hairdresser, She's
really cool. We're not weirdos.
Can she do your hair literally? But I wouldn't even rock up to
(05:17):
the door, I'd get so embarrassed.
No, no, no, he literally, and I think it was it was one of those
moments where her brother used to shoot her content.
So I think she was like this is so cute and really induced.
So cute. That is so funny.
That's a good story. There's so many places I want to
go to, but I just want to know like, what's new with you right
now? Like how's currently going on
for Natalie Ann? What is new?
(05:38):
I know you're doing education, yes, but what is new at the time
of? Recording you're doing less
education and I feel like everything that I do is
educational. Like the the label of like when
I think, you know, when you say education, I feel like most
people think it's master class orientated.
And I feel like I started that in our industry, you know, 10-4
(06:00):
actually 13 years ago. And it was amazing.
But I feel like what's next? You know, I don't think that
people want to sit stale in a master class.
You know, they don't necessarilywant to sit there for seven
hours and get their head smashedin by an educator.
So we've really tried to change the dynamic of the way that we
(06:22):
share knowledge. You know, I watch the trends, I
watch people. I'm constantly have my ear to
the ground on how people are absorbing knowledge and it's
getting shorter and shorter. And we need to make sure that
the format is entertaining. So it's more entertainment than
it is education only. So you know, you're entertaining
(06:43):
people and you're educating at the same time.
So prior to this sitting, I was talking to you about a million
and one things. I don't even know if you can
remember if your memory is that,you know, deep, but we were
talking about what's happened inthe past, what's happening in
the future. But for those who don't know and
who are listening, I'm actually quite close with Natalie and her
(07:04):
family. Yes.
Somehow in the mix of things with life, there's been an like
we've been intertwined. Yes, we're like on Easter, we'll
see each other or. Well, you're like, related to my
best friend Wendy. Yeah.
And then you live around the corner from my cousins.
Yes, my brother works with you. Yeah, so just like all
intertwined, right? Yeah, but then I I felt like I
was leaving the bridal industry as you were starting to pop off.
(07:28):
Shame on you, I know. You're joking.
It's. So fun I would have loved I've
still done bride with you. So I'm I'm still glad like I got
in there. I got in there, but we're
talking about a lot of things and I found out that you are
actually the salon's closing andI never knew of that.
So walk me through that process because from for me and my
experience is that the salon is like.
(07:52):
Nostalgic. It there's a lot of yeah, like
there's, that's a perfect word for it.
There's a lot of nostalgia that's linked towards it.
Everything I know about you, that was the first point.
Like the first place I think I met you was there.
Whenever you were doing something with charity, it was
there. Education was there.
Yeah, it was a core hub, and it was a beautiful home.
And it raised and sheltered, youknow, so many of my family
(08:17):
members and team members and turn them into weapons, you
know, And it was such a beautiful space for the last
decade. But I think what I'm really,
really good at is evolving, you know, and the next part of my
(08:39):
chapter just doesn't include a salon in its traditional form.
You know, I feel like the traditional salon model, you
know, it will always exist. But for me, the next chapter is
hair care and, you know, workingwith other artists and
hairdressers and globally not being tied down.
(09:04):
Like, I need to be able to jump on a flat and go open a
distribution in another country.And I feel like when people
wanted to come work at Natalie Ann, they wanted to work for me,
and I wasn't there. I haven't been there for a long
time. You know, I did offer it to my
sister. She didn't want it.
I really wanted to keep it in the family.
(09:25):
But, you know, everyone's got towrite their own success story,
you know? And I don't think that that
salon space needed to be open any longer, you know?
I thought you. I get it.
I feel like. But it it, it served its
purpose, definitely, yeah. Yeah, it did.
(09:46):
It did. From that one, that one little
shop. A lot did come out of it, like a
lot of not just talented people and humans and individuals, but.
But like, relationships, man. Yeah, memories.
A lot of would have happened inside.
Yeah, like lots of laughs. Good times.
You know, I look back sometimes at like Facebook memories and
(10:06):
you just see how young everyone looks and like how they used to
act a fool and I used to get so angry.
So it was good. And you no longer do bridal.
I don't, I do, but for family and friends like, you know,
that's good because I I still want to keep my hands in it, but
I was never available for a family member or, you know, a a
(10:29):
friend or. You're doing Ellie's hair, of
course. Of course, Ellie's, Michelle's.
I just do my cousins on the weekend I'm doing.
I don't know. Do you watch happy Hour?
No, I don't. The podcast No.
So funny. They are actually hoot.
Yeah. Best Nicky and Lucy.
I'm doing Nicky's wedding in Byron next week.
(10:50):
Awesome. OK, that's good.
But I just want to tap into thata little bit because you're
still so young. Why did I retire?
Yeah, you're still so young. Like why would you not give it
up? But why would you move to the
next chapter now? I feel like you still have so
much in you. Look, I don't like to call it a
retirement because that means I'm like, done.
(11:12):
I think bridal is a skill acrossall creative industries, right?
I think if you develop that skill, you know how to be in the
wedding industry, you know how to run a book in the wedding
history, you know how to build afollowing in the wedding
industry. You know how to wedding
etiquette, for example. That's a skill you always have.
You know, I don't think it's about relevancy.
(11:32):
I think it's about professionalism and how you can
turn up. So I think at any point in time,
if I felt the need financially or the yearn creatively to go
back, I could at any point in time because now I've got all
the secret sauce and the ingredients and the, I guess
legacy. But at the same time, I wanted
(11:54):
to spend more time with my children.
And I mean, I had my son three days later, I had a wedding.
My son, my husband brought my son to me so I could breastfeed
him. And that's not sustainable for
me. Along with working seven days a
week as well as, you know, and Ialso want 200 brides a year.
(12:17):
Dude. I was like next level.
Yeah, it's a lot. Plus the team.
I was with you on the wedding that you were.
It was the last wedding before you had your son.
I don't know if you remember it out in dual.
Oh yes. I was with you on that.
Job. I think I was like due that
week. Yeah, You know, Yeah.
It was like, you're like, you weren't too sure if you're gonna
(12:37):
give birth by then or not. Yeah, that's right.
But you're just so chill about it.
I don't know if it's like a female thing or if it's like a
motherly thing or if it's like when girls get pregnant and they
just like force themselves to bechill or like, Nah actually
that. Chill.
Nah, I'm actually that chill. But I think it's an individual
thing. You know, I've got ants in my
pants. I need to just keep going what
(12:59):
I'm going to do at home. I know, but still like you don't
want your water to break on a veil.
It'd be funny it. Would be very funny.
I'm sure the brides would be honoured.
But tapping into that a little bit further, obviously you had
Billy. How's Billy now?
Fall. Yeah.
So you had it four years ago. Yeah.
Well and truly. Like established feet, concrete
(13:22):
into the ground. Yeah, from the moment you found
out you're pregnant with Billy to up until her birth and that
adjustment period of like the first child, did you feel like
that either was a speed hump in the process, an accelerator, or
just shifted you in a positive or negative rate?
Like tell me the honest truth about having that first child
running a massive train that's going literally 200 KS an hour.
(13:47):
I don't. You know my family quite well,
right? Yeah.
So, you know, I didn't really want to have children.
Yeah. So and I think not enough women
talk about that really, but it'sa just a choice I made really
early on. And I think that's because when
I was really young, I went to a gynaecologist and, you know, he
basically was like, oh, you can't have children.
And I was probably like 14 when they told me that.
(14:09):
So I think subconsciously I toldmyself I didn't want them, but
maybe it's because I couldn't have them.
OK. Which was total BS really
because he wasn't God and clearly I could.
So that was fine. But I think I was also really
driven career wise that I, I didn't think I could have both
(14:32):
personally. And then I spoke to a really
good friend of mine who is also one of my mentors, and she said
to me that if you think that you're motivated now, wait till
you have children because then you have something to work for
that's not yourself. So true mate.
(14:56):
I didn't even need more rocket fuel, but they are like rocket
fuel because that's who you workfor now.
So every decision you make, right, they're smarter because
either they're taking you away from your family, right?
Or they're paying you enough to then give to your family.
(15:17):
So your decisions become really black and white to be honest.
100% and you really, I, I, I really resonate with that
personally. Obviously I'm not a mum, but you
know, since having Andrea, I waslike, changed everything,
changed our perspective in a great way.
Like it is an accelerator, but it also shifts your values in in
(15:38):
in different in different light.And I was very fortunate, like I
had amazing pregnancies and goodbirths.
So I know that there's going to be people listening that
probably didn't have that experience.
But my body was, it's a workhorse, man.
It was just, it's ready, it's trained.
It's like meant to go back to work.
So it did. I I know the answer to this, but
(15:59):
for the listeners listening, obviously Arthur's your husband
and he is a great dad. I've seen him hands on so many
times and you know, for those who don't follow, you would have
like, you know, they wouldn't have seen it, but we all know
Arthur's a great dad. Talk to me about the importance
of his role because I know that obviously the answer is that
he's a great support system in your life, both business wise
(16:21):
and as a father and as a partner, not just as a father.
Talk to me about that and his support role and the importance
of it. Well, he is such a crucial part
of the Natalie Ann business, ourfamily home and our
relationship. You know, I think as a husband,
(16:42):
he's more than I could have everdreamt of, even though I fully
manifested him to the point where I manifested the street he
lived on. I missed it a little bit though.
Like I said, I wanted him to live in Condo park.
I wanted him to live on Black Charlie's Hill.
He didn't. It was like further down on
Hunters, but like 2 weeks. The point where I said I wanted
him to drive AU and be a builderand have no hair and eventually
(17:06):
we shaved it. But it's so funny.
Like I fully manifested my husband and I.
I definitely got what I wanted and then some.
And he is the most incredible father.
Looking at his father and knowing his father, I knew the
kind of father he would be. So, yeah, we're really blessed
(17:27):
from a support system perspective.
He enables I guess every dream that I possibly have.
He's very strategic. So he'll take my airy, fairy,
flighty creative mindset and then actualize it.
Handles logistics, our warehousing, our product demand,
(17:51):
financials, like personally and business and, you know, drops
off the kids, picks up the kids,you know, like way more than I
think any working father does. Yeah.
No, he's great. Yeah, I've seen him, Tom.
He's actually very great, particularly with a daughter.
You know, he's, he's very. That's his best and.
(18:13):
If you look at him, you're like,does it matter?
He seriously wants a daddy daughter podcast.
He should do it. He really, He really should.
He can actually use his space orremove the branding.
I'll put photos of them. You can.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
I still remember that, I'm not even going to go back to that
video, but that hilarious video of the cleaner will clean it up.
That video, the one you uploaded?
(18:34):
Oh my God, with Billy, she's so precious now.
All the time that he was doing her hair.
I'm filming and she's holding a tampon and I had no idea.
And she's looking at this tampongoing and she's like, I don't
know one, I mean. She walked out of your your
Fashion Week and said subscribe to my channel to everyone.
I was like. She dressed herself so funny.
(18:57):
She wore blue heels, blue dress.She blue stockings.
That's like absolutely hilarious.
Is there any other advice you'd give to mothers that are working
in the working industry? In the wedding industry.
Working industry that are like running a full blown business or
full time working. Look, I think, and I truly
believe this. Happy mum, happy babies.
(19:19):
It's true. You know, and I know a lot of
people suffer from like mum guilt and all the things, but I
think if I'm happy, I can then be the best version of myself,
which will then turn into the best role model for my daughter.
And you know, we're going to teach her to like be her own
girl boss if she chooses that. And if she doesn't, then we'll
(19:43):
also support her. But she'll understand what work
ethic is. If you were to guess her career,
what do you reckon it would be? I have no idea at the moment.
Like I I definitely think that she could run some sort of like
political party. Like she's just like, she's
extremely she's. Going for counsellor of that
(20:05):
girl, that's what. She's going for the funniest
thing, actually. She pulls down her nappy right
yesterday and she goes Duke, bam, Duke bam.
I go, what Mum? She goes, I've got a skid mark.
I go, what tan line? She was showing me her tan.
Line. Oh my gosh, I'm that's.
Like a cat. She's a great She's actually a
(20:26):
teenager. Yeah, she's not even a kid.
She's a 21 year old American. YouTube.
She's actually a teenager. I'm going to move on to the next
topic because I'm actually very curious about a couple of things
about the product world and likethe Natalie Ann products because
for me as a business owner, that's very, it's very like far
reached, if that makes sense in the sense of like it, it seems
(20:48):
very unattainable. To own your own product line.
To own their own product line. Yep.
Think of the products. Yep.
Find manufacturers, brand it. Yep.
Afford it. Like, put that feasibility
aside, then what do you do? You know what I mean?
Like, there's a lot of questionsthat I have.
Yeah. But one of the main questions I
have is because you're a very personal brand.
(21:08):
You're Natalie Ann, right? It's your name.
I know you've had salons and you've had a lot of little, a
lot of like other names underneath you that have grown
into their own world, but everything is Natalie.
And so it's very personable. People can put the name to the
face. Founder Lip.
Being in the product world, how did you find with the
competitiveness? Be authentic and still remain
(21:31):
authentic within yourself. Well, I think calling it Natalie
Ann really made it. I mean, I had no choice.
It has to be authentic. Like it's me, it's me in a
bottle, it's me in a can. And I think, you know, we were
toying with the fact our trading, our trading name and
(21:52):
our company name two different things, but our company name was
what we were going to call the brand.
And you know, a really good friend of mine said to me, just
do it, like just put your name on it.
And I think my original reservations in the beginning
was, are you going to fail like a people not going to buy it?
It's got my name on it, whereas you could hide behind a brand
(22:13):
name. But I needed to call it Natalie
Ann because I needed to give it everything because that's my
reputation on the line. Every time someone sprays it,
every time someone uses it, every time they smell it, it's
me. Yeah.
And I think that keeps me honest, that keeps me authentic,
that keeps me true. So if you're ever thinking about
(22:33):
doing it, yeah, mate, it keeps you straight and narrow.
I tell you that much because it's your reputation.
Do you know how many places it'sstocked in?
We have 1500 stockers in Australia and New Zealand.
Only Molly, 1500. Isn't that amazing, Are there?
That many hairdressers in this country?
God. Oh, there's more than that.
I think there's like, oh, I actually couldn't tell you the
stat, but I don't know, maybe 50,000.
Wow. And I don't know if this is too
(22:56):
much of A forward question, maybe obviously something that
you might not want to share and that's totally fine.
But when you've thought of the product, Ryan, like was an idea
in your mind, how did it go fromthat step to sourcing the
manufacturer and like speaking to people and like getting it
like, do you know what I mean, like?
The. Process the 1st jump, not the
process of like getting the bottles made in the design but
(23:19):
like that first jump of like what did you do Google?
Definitely not. I was really fortunate.
I mean, today is so much easier than when I first started the,
the the product line. But I have a really good friend
of mine who is in product development.
So it made my journey very different because he already
(23:42):
had, you know, so many differentproduct formulas that we could
test and try and work with. So that's definitely one way you
can go about it. You can find a product formula
that has so many different products, you could easily white
label a product. That's usually when the
product's already made and you stick your label over at the top
(24:03):
of it, which is not something that we really wanted to do, but
people do it. Like a lot of the brands that
you know and love are white labels, right?
I want to. Know who because no shade to
them, but I don't want to be a part of it.
But you know, it is, it is, it'svery common.
So that's one route, but you know, we, I think the difference
(24:25):
between human eyes, we're both hairdressers.
So we also became very, very obsessed with performance, you
know, because we wanted it to work for us.
And that was the one thing that was really important is like,
how can we make this better? Like, how can we, you know,
turn, for example, a nostalgic Hairspray?
(24:46):
Like why would I launch another Hairspray?
You know, what are the problems?What are we trying to solve
here? Like what do I hate about other
ones? It could just be the way it
sprays out like, but that's that's how my journey began.
But I think for anyone listeningwho wants to start today, it is
really as simple as, you know, find a product manufacturer for
(25:09):
lashes in Australia. OK, really.
Then you start to curate that list, literally open up a Google
document, curate all the lists of manufacturers that do you
know, private labels, you know, or they are willing to
manufacture a new type of hair or a different fabric or method,
(25:34):
you know. Then packaging and design your
graphic designer is everything. And then when we did a rebrand
for me, I loved, I love Angular lines, you know, I love things
that don't finish, you know, andthey kind of feel like they're
very timeless colour palette so much.
(25:58):
It's very you. It is very mean.
It is very you. Yeah.
You can see your touch points and sprinkles over everything.
Thank you. I kind of touched on that.
That was very, very, very insightful.
And that's something I just really wanted to know because I
feel like everything else outside of that realm is pretty
self explanatory. And if it's not anyone that's on
that journey, it would be self explanatory to them.
So it makes a lot of sense. But you and I have chatted about
(26:20):
it. You should do it.
Yeah, like there's a there's a million and one dreams, but for
me, it's kind of like what resonates in that in the current
moment is what's important for me and what what's in the next
two years? What's in the next 5 years?
What's in the next 10 years. I feel like I'm more of a
quality over quantity kind of person and I never want to rush
(26:40):
onto something too quickly. You've had 24 years in this game
now. Yeah, I'm like at 10, you know
what I mean? So it's like I want to kind of
make sure that when I'm doing something, it's not just what
I'm ready for in any other world, like financially, if
anyone, it's more my mental state as in like I can give it
110%. Does that make sense?
(27:04):
It's like when I moved into the wedding world, it was like I
needed to do what so many peoplebefore and was like, you're
ready, you're ready. Please.
Should I be? Please.
And I'm like, I'm ready when I'mready.
I'm not ready when you're ready.Yeah.
Because if if I'm not ready, I'mnot going to believe in it.
I need to believe. In it, you're the kind of person
that needs to give someone, whoever the client is, you're
(27:27):
everything. Oh, they literally.
Yes. You.
You hired for the day you. Purchased me for the day.
They literally say I'm yours like it's whatever you want.
I've seen it and I was the same,yeah.
You know, I can see it as well. Yeah.
I want to touch on a topic aboutbusiness in general.
It's more about the salon because speaking I'm based off
(27:49):
my experience, you know my experience and story.
But for those who don't know this far, we're listening to
this episode. I used to work for a photography
studio exclusively for like 3 years or so.
His image house and his Henrik. Literally like a brother to me.
We have the best relationship, love him.
It was the best journey I ever took.
It was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in my
(28:10):
life. He taught me pretty much
everything. I still call him boss to this
day and he's still forever my mentor.
Like I'll there's never going tobe a day I don't look up to him.
He taught me so many ropes for me to learn on and I feel like
he's a massive credit to my career and he deserves that
right to like literally take everything.
But you are pretty much in that same seat that he was in where
(28:34):
at the salon you had so many incredible hairdressers and
stylists and so many people thathad individual independent
names. Some were family and some
weren't. And then they branched out to
their own. Give me a little bit of insight
back in that time. So rewinding your mind, how was
(28:55):
that like? And also what is your advice to
other people that have juniors below them, whether it's an
assistant, stylist or anything like that?
Do they bleed their knowledge onto the person?
Do they watch them flourish? What did it really do for you?
OK, there's so wait so many waysto unpack this.
Question Packer or leave everything on the table.
(29:16):
First and foremost, when I firstlaunched all of their individual
Instagrams with their name, right, everyone told me I was
crazy. They were like, don't teach them
everything. Don't give them their individual
social media. You're pretty much handing them
your database. I was like OK valid, true 100%.
(29:40):
However, if I need to train, teach, guide, then hand over my
current clientele in order for me to be able to scale up this
business, I'm not handing my client of 10 years to my junior.
I want them to be perceived as my equal, so she trusts that
(30:05):
person. Does that make sense?
I completely get what you're saying.
And regardless of what I've taught, any of the, you know, my
quality of my kids, my kids thatused to work with me, right?
They're also individual. Like I could teach them another
for another 10 years, right? But everyone's hand is
(30:27):
different. What we do is handmade.
So no one's going to be me and no one's going to be Doughty and
no one's going to be of show. No one's different and the taste
is different, right? So that was the first thing.
We had a really solid team for areally long time.
What I will say to people is timing is interesting, right?
(30:49):
So I was pregnant and breastfeeding Billy when three
of them left at one time. That was challenging, to say the
least, because you've got three of your core team, you know,
that are going out onto their own.
So yes, it affects the business.Yes, I think because it's
(31:09):
family, you become emotional about it.
But then you learn, right? And you learn the type of
relationships you want to have with people, the legacy you want
to leave. I think that's a big thing for
me. Like when I die, I want people
at my funeral to be like, she impacted me.
(31:31):
But that's true. That's how you should live.
It's like, what do you want to be known for?
And I, I don't want any bad blood with anyone.
And as the years went on, you know, every person that then
leaves you to go on their own, you become, it becomes more of a
process. You, you understand an exit
strategy. You understand like how to
(31:51):
onboard people better, but you also know that that's your role.
That's my role. My role is to educate the next
generation. I love it, I'm obsessed with it.
I love seeing their successes. They're a part of our brand
story. They are a huge part of our next
chapter. They all use NA in their spaces.
(32:13):
They're all proud ambassadors. And I also feel like now we can
really change that narrative. Like, we can now say this is the
way it should be. You don't have to leave on bad
terms. You really don't.
And I know it's always going to be a sore spot for people.
But, you know, I think communication is really
(32:34):
important. Like, if you want to leave, you
know, your current mentor, right?
What does that look like? Yeah.
You know, and I think however, early on that discussion, when
the time is right, how do you want me to go about this?
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I completely get it.
Yeah, I was shooting bricks whenI told Henry.
Everyone does, man, shooting it.I mean, Daniel wanted to leave
(32:58):
me last, you know, month. And Daniel?
Do you want to take a seat at the table?
Just an intervention. Bro he even he even had a moment
where he's over when are. They you mumble a little bit,
you mumble a little bit. It's so funny, yeah.
Just because it'd be the alpha energy, you know?
Oh 100%. But all it is is they love and
respect you, of course. And they shit themselves when
(33:18):
they try and tell you, yeah, because of that respect.
It means a lot, Yeah. You spoke about how obviously
those family involved and familyin the business, lots of it's
like a golden rule. Not to.
Work. Don't mix money with family
because you know it can literally explode and obviously
emotions mean a lot more family can get involved.
(33:40):
I personally wouldn't involve family in my business.
I'm going to be dead honest withyou.
My wife is it's just me and Alexia and then all of my
shooters are not related to me. It would take a whole lot for me
to introduce someone in the family and I have like three
siblings that are incredible a lie.
My brother, he's my bookkeeper, but that's different.
He's not really involved in likethe creative stuff.
(34:01):
He's involved in the boring accounting shit.
But I would not involve family in business because for me, I'm
I can be quite firm at times when something doesn't go my
way. And then I don't want to offend
someone. Well, I don't want to upset
someone. So I.
Maybe that's the difference between you and I.
That's what I was going to say. So how did you ever it's not
(34:22):
just about the exit that I'm talking about.
How did you work with families so freaking closely like I'm?
Obsessed. With them or just family in
general? You know I hate hiring people
that say yes to you. That's what I've noticed.
What do you mean? So I don't like yes people like
(34:42):
I don't like to hire someone andthen not having opinion, it
makes me upset. Your family will always have an
opinion, right? They always, well, my family
anyway. Your family for sure.
Right. But my family pull me up like if
they, I mean, he's here in the room, so it's really awkward.
But like, you know, from what I wear to to how I sound to what I
(35:07):
eat. Do you know what I mean?
He's like that. Shit, he looked great today, by
the way. Thank you.
It's fine. You, you got the, you got the
green. Light, but it's so funny because
like, you know, and that's because they have your best
interests at heart, right. So I think really it was more
beneficial for me, like because we handled these people that
were just like, this is shit. This could be better, you know,
(35:28):
like Robin was the first person I hired and it was insane.
Like she used to run my book like American Airlines, mate,
like I'm talking back to back freaking gun.
She is, she's crazy, crazy. Like my, I'm like, please,
Robin, my fingers are going to fall off and she's like, it's
OK. You know, you're making a lot of
(35:48):
money, so deal with it, right? So it, I don't know, I just
loved it. I loved it.
We always had fun. But it also built a really
beautiful culture in the NatalieAnn brand because people knew it
was family. So, you know, almost to the
point where they felt like they couldn't get in unless they were
related. It was so funny at some point.
(36:10):
You'd have had great morale. Yeah, but we still do it.
My sister in law's still in the business.
My brother's still in the business.
My husband. Would I do it again?
Probably not, just because they're all of age now where
they need to do their own thing.Yeah, they do.
(36:33):
I get it. They're ready.
They all need to go build their own story.
Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, but don't be scared of it.
Oh, I I did it, babe. I'm I'm good.
Oh, you're talking to the Oh, you're talking family.
Oh, OK, The family suffer. Yeah, they made it go on my own.
I'm like, I'm a bit on my own. Oh.
No, I know that. Oh, the.
Family. Yeah.
(36:53):
No, see, I don't know. It's a bit different.
It's a little bit different. I don't know if I could.
Yeah, no, I couldn't because sometimes like a.
Lot of people say they can't work with their husband or their
wife. Yeah.
But you just need to have there's.
Sometimes when someone will tellme to do something or like just
you should really think of this.And I'm like, I think no.
And it's like, I don't want to listen to you.
It's like. I love that.
(37:15):
I think I didn't ask you. That's what my response is.
That was the creativity. Yeah, it's it's a little bit
funny, but you know, everyone has everyone has a different
relationship with their family though.
And everyone's family dynamic is, is very, very different,
right? And I obviously know your family
and use use a very thick skinnedlike if I ever want honest,
(37:35):
honest advice or I'm having a real problem, like a real
business or like whatever problem, and I know I'm calling
Robin. It's like I know I prepare
myself. Then she's going to RIP the band
aid off. She's she's going to hurt my
feelings a little bit because she's going to tell me the truth
that I didn't want to hear. Do you know what I mean?
But. I know your family's like that.
(37:56):
Yeah, we are. But for me, I I opt into it as a
friend. You know what I mean?
So that's what I'm always curious about because sometimes
when your family and you're working together on a Monday to
Friday, you come on Wednesday, you've like got no sleep awake
and you're just like, I don't want to hear it, but you do it,
which is great. But you honestly, he's have a
beautiful relationship, all of you.
He's having. Yeah, it's crazy, but it's crazy
(38:19):
in the good way. It's like awesome.
He's need a reality TV show. That would get us cancelled very
quickly. A. 100%, I'm going to touch on
here a little bit. Go for it.
I'm going to bounce around this podcast, keep people on their
toes. Any trends you see coming up?
Oh yes. Bridal and unbridal categorise
(38:39):
them both. OK, bridal, the head of the
bridal hair game at the moment, you know who you are, so this is
for them. Change the trends.
I don't think there's been a newtrend since I left, so change
(39:00):
the trends. Is there a trend you want to see
leave specifically? No, but I'm yet to see something
new. Have you seen something new that
I don't know about? Don't flip this back on me.
I'm not getting. I'm actually, you know, I said
it the other day and I was actually really like, I've
looked at it. I've been out for a year.
(39:21):
Yeah. Come on, you've.
Been out for a year. Yeah, wow.
Time looks quick, OK Anything trend wise you see outside of
bridal? Let's talk think about just like
your general girl and also red carpet.
Yeah, like plats, like low, high, whatever it is, long
(39:48):
plats, braids, they're all coming back.
Loads of stacked accessories, like layered upon layered
accessories. I mean, that's what we've just
seen at Paris and Milan and I, you know, everything's quite
sleek, snatched wet. So we're going away from soft,
flowy glazed. Bouncy blow dryers I.
(40:08):
Mean look, they're going to always exist because the big
bouncy blow dryers are staple. You know what I mean?
It's like a short back in slides.
They're never never going to go anywhere.
But I do think from trend reportor, or you know where it's
going, I definitely think it's going to be tighter more yes,
snatched. Do you ever see this thought
(40:29):
literally just entered my head? Do you ever see yourself
collaborating with like a major hair?
I don't know if this is the right Word application tool
'cause like I literally just pictured it in my head.
No, no, I don't think so. Even if the check is juicy.
If the check is juicy, no, look,I, I don't, I think the big
(40:51):
ones, the reputable ones would never do it because if they're
not doing a collab already, they're not going to, it's not
in there and they're not agile enough, I feel because by the
time that they worked on that, that like a 24 to, you know, 48
month process and who knows where we'll be then.
(41:13):
So I don't know if it'll be the right decision for me right now,
but who knows? Yeah, you never say never.
You know, you can shout out a couple of brands if you want to.
I'm joking and do it from the outside, the beauty industry, it
looks very glamorous. It feels glamorous.
You guys are glamorous. Instagram, TikTok, everything
looks great. You guys are very successful.
(41:35):
Everything looks very polished. And you know, you know what I'm
talking about. You know what, Jazz?
But what are your thoughts or outlooks about the difficulties
in the industry or any of the challenges that you find goes on
that's not really spoken about? I look, I feel like time
(41:59):
management, work life balance isone of the biggest things, you
know, for beauty professionals. It's one of those things where,
you know, we're the first one onset and we're the last to leave,
right? And that's not spoken about
enough. You, you see this beautifully
curated edited image or video, they don't see the 9 hours of
(42:24):
compounded work that went into that.
So I, I definitely think if, if you know, a young hair makeup
artist is like wanting to get into television, film, like, you
know, wedding industry or salon work, like it's really long
hours and they've, they've got to be prepared.
They're going to love it enough.Any advice about overcoming
(42:44):
those challenges when it does come to hours or what?
For instance, fatigue. Or more specifically, creative
fatigue. How someone deals with their own
physical fatigue is their own problem.
Yeah. But like creative fatigue when
you're actually on the floor andyou're doing client, client,
client, client in a salon or bridal, bridal, bridal 7
bridesmaids. Like, how do you combat creative
(43:04):
fatigue? Oh.
That one's easy, OK? Everybody needs a creative
space, you know, whether it be this tiny little room or a
trestle table or whatever it maybe for hairdressers, your
mannequin head needs to be your best friend and you need to
change shapes, test, lock yourself in a room for a week if
(43:29):
you can, and just create new shit.
Because every time I ask somebody when was the last time
they beat on their craft, their answer is never.
How are you going to get your creativity and your juices
flowing if you're not playing and working?
You know, when was the last timea makeup artist got out a face
(43:50):
sheet and sketched out somethingnew and new, A new cut crease, a
new shape, a new colour palette like.
And that's what the greats do. They spend time on their craft.
And you know, this generation really needs to reinvest in
their craft. Less time on social, more time
in the lab. So your advice is to actually
(44:11):
like schedule block out time periods with every weekly for
early or monthly to say this is me time. 100%, if they're
learning, it's daily. So if they're like in an
apprenticeship or they're learning their first, like
getting on the tools daily, you know, think about athletes,
right? You don't become a pro swimmer
because you're not you're not swimming in offseason.
(44:34):
Actually, very true. They swim every single day of
their life, multiple days, like multiple times a day.
And that's to be the best. But if you don't want to be the
best, you could just be average.It's fine.
Yeah, yeah. If you for me, it's good.
If you were to do anything ever as a bridal stylist or bridal
hairdresser, think about your brides, the last decade, 2 days,
(44:57):
anything you would have changed or any anything that you kind of
like. I could have done this better or
this was really hard. I want either a challenge or a
regret. You can pick.
I don't think it's a challenge or a regret.
I, I loved what we built. I loved the processes.
And I tell you why because each part of my career thus far has
(45:20):
segwayed and taught me somethingnew that I now use in my current
business state. OK, right.
So I, I never believe in regret.I think everything is a
learning, right? What I do believe is that if I
was to do it again, we're spoiled now with automation and
(45:42):
AI and and amazing tech that we could implement into our
businesses to make things more agile, faster, more accurate and
seamless. To my admin.
Admin workflow so much that I now know that I would definitely
implement. Yeah, but it just probably
(46:02):
wasn't even around it. I feel like AI and all of that
kind of notion and everything that it's like more recent and
like literally in the last few years, it's really popped off.
Yeah, but I also think from a fatigue perspective, brides
expect a lot from their suppliers, you know, maybe not
their cars etcetera, but I thinkfrom their glam squad like their
(46:25):
photographer, their make up artist, their hairdresser, you
know, there there is a lot of back and forth.
I do believe that process needs to be streamlined for the mental
health for the artist, but also for the clarity from the client.
You know, they still need to understand that there is a
difference, you know? Yeah, I know that's what you're
(46:46):
saying. Streamlining there is just a
whole lot of advice that you've given a lot of people.
Thanks. I'm just going through all the
list of questions that I have for you and they're just like, I
feel like this podcast can go onfor like 900 years, but I don't
know if like, you know, you're abooked and busy lady.
I don't know if you have that time, but I will actually jump
through. I want to do this first and then
(47:07):
a question someone has submittedfor you.
OK. Great.
What's this? Just we'll roll with it, but
basically it's like a random question kind of game.
Oh. I love.
This, it's literally you're going to, you're going to pick
the question you have and it's out of random, OK.
And I want you to answer as truthfully and as honestly as
you can. And you can think about your
(47:28):
answer for quite a minute. Pick any card, pick a card, any
card, and read out your questionwhen you have the chance.
Of course, she gets a brown 1. Natalie Ann.
Babe, I'm always on brand you. Know.
Oh my goodness. What's the weirdest thing you
find attractive? That is such a random question
(47:51):
out of this whole box. I don't think it's weird, but
the most attractive thing to me in a person is their
intelligence. Oh, like fuck, Yum.
OK, if they're smart, we're there.
That's. Not a weird thing at.
(48:12):
All Yeah. Like, like over like hotness,
Yeah. Yeah.
Like I could clearly say somebody's unattractive.
Like I could see they're not very attractive, but then they
speak and all of a sudden they're attractive.
There you go. See what I mean?
Well, guys, she's married, so just, you know, sit down, settle
(48:33):
down, keep your seatbelts buckled in.
You know what I mean? I know what you mean, but.
Now everyone knows that there's a smarty pants, you know?
I know, right? Well, you've really let the
juice go. But so Henrik was on the podcast
before you, and I asked him to ask you a question, but he
didn't know it was you. Does that make sense?
So he just gave a question to the next person that was going
(48:54):
to be on the episode. Interesting.
He asked. You ready?
Are you sure You ready for this one?
He asked. Do you think we live in a
parallel universe where the where there are alternate
universes going on at the same time?
I do. Yeah.
What makes you feel like you know that?
(49:15):
I, I don't actually, I don't have no evidence to back that
up, OK. But I do believe whether you
call it a universe, whether you call it, it is a universe,
right? I do believe that there's
something bigger or maybe the same size but different parallel
(49:37):
to us. I do so parallel, I think so.
Do you reckon there's like another Natalie Ann I?
I I've never thought that deep about it, but there's got to be
more than what we know. There has to be right do.
You reckon if the parallel universe Natalie Ann and the
parallel universe George John's podcast came out would have been
better than this one or worse? Fucking that's 100%.
(50:01):
I don't know. No, no, it.
Depends on how smart they were, that's true.
Fuck. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, but I don't want to be that guy.
But. Is that they're sexier than us?
Do you know what I'm saying? Like look I.
Don't know if my imagination's that date.
That was the weirdest fucking question, Henry.
When he asked that question, I. Told you his date but he
(50:23):
actually kills me every time I see him.
I'm like you know what it is. Actually I have a meme I should
send him. It was this ADHD meme that I
sent my friend today and it readADHD people cleaning their out
their wardrobe. Right?
So you meant to be cleaning out your wardrobe?
People with ADHD, we get lost inthe wardrobe and then it comes
(50:48):
out and it's wow. It's like a bell song.
Tada. Anyway, I'm going to share that
meme. He shared me a meme and he said
best friend, let's do a podcast together One minute later and
it's image of people getting arrested.
What are you going to talk aboutbro?
Hangover. A lot of universes.
If you can. Can you give me a question for
(51:10):
the next person that's going to be on this podcast?
It's actually a really, really good person.
The next episode's really good. I, I, we haven't recorded it,
but give me a question for the next.
Don't make it about universes, please, for the love of God.
I won't. I'll tell you who it is later.
(51:43):
What is their current biggest head fuck?
Do you want to say head? Fuck yeah.
Like one that's gone, that's currently like they're current.
The next person on the podcast is my mum.
I'm joking. I'm joking.
You're like Welly. George, George.
(52:06):
George. George.
George. George.
OK. NAD, I'm very, very excited for
their answer. Natalie Ann, thank you for being
on the podcast. Thank you for.
Having me, I really appreciate it.
It's a lot of juice. No, I was sponsored by Daniel.
I won't say he was. Actually like was so zesty it
(52:27):
actually dehydrated me. Right after this podcast, I'm
going to literally get you an IVdrip.
You're cool man. You're all good.
And with an IV drip company. Please hit me up.
Go to hydrate this girl, take iteasy.
Thanks for coming. Appreciate you.
And I'm so happy for you. Thank you.
(52:48):
It's going to be a very good series.
I love the name, it's very creative and I miss being on the
crew table. We want you back.
We want you back.
Deep in my eyes, Natalie. Sultry eyes.
Natalie Ann, welcome to the crewtable.
Hi how you doing? I'm actually really excited to
be here. Me too.
I'm really excited you're. Here I'm used to like doing
talent, not being the talent in this room, so it's very nice.
Oh, sweetheart, you are the talent.
Stop. You know what?
But it's cute. I'm like the setup.
(00:31):
I'm very well. Your brother did it.
It's amazing. So you better like it.
And if you don't like it? I know.
Bring your complaints that way. Take it home with you.
I will, yeah. But he's done a really good job.
And congratulations. I'm super excited for you.
What a new chapter. I know it just, you know,
happened. I love that you just did it.
Yeah, it actually didn't just happen.
It took months and months. Yeah, but like you actually did
(00:52):
it. I feel like people talk about it
and talk about it and talk aboutit, but they never do it.
So congratulations. Thank you.
For doing it, it's very scary. It's scary to like listen to
your own voice because no one likes their own voice.
And I'm a very hyena person. But it's also scary because it's
like, definitely one likes it, but who cares?
I know amazing friends that it'slike, I don't give a shit if I
(01:14):
have this as a time capsule. That's all I'm happy with.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
So if you flip the narrative slightly in your mind and just
see it as this really cool scrapbook of you and your mates,
like you could document this andin, you know, 50s time, go back
and play it to your kids. And sell it to HBO.
(01:36):
Or that or that. Or that I got my daughter to see
for like 2 seconds. She popped in and she screamed
the ABC so loud. Daniel, how funny was it?
Did you have to control her idea?
Yeah. And then she wanted to sing
Happy birthday. Like, thanks.
Thanks for your contribution. Very meaningful SO.
Cute. I'm going to dive right into it
because I know this is going to be a massive on and it's going
to be a mammoth one and there's going to be so many people
(01:57):
wanting to tune onto this. Brides, business owners,
hairdressers, all the in between.
Amazing anyone in the beauty space or anyone that really
wants to know about E commerce education and just honest any
woman that's married that has any job role I feel like is
going to want to know this. Awesome.
No pressure. So many topics that I want to
kind of dive into, but obviouslyNatalie Ann, you're incredible.
(02:22):
You're mogul in your own field and you're 1 of Australia's
leading hairdressers. You have an award winning
product, you've won multiple awards.
I'm not even going to bother go through the list because I don't
even know all of them, but I just, it's too long to go
through. And you're globally recognised,
I guess, as an influencer in my eyes and I know in everyone's
(02:45):
eyes, which is pretty incrediblebecause Daniel and I were kind
of talking about this earlier and you started 24 years ago.
And then I don't know at what point, but everyone just feels
like you're a household name forthe longest time.
But you became an influencer in so many people's life without
actually being an influencer. Yes, you were just a hairdresser
(03:08):
uploading her work, doing her thing, and then became this huge
little mogul. And I say little because you're
so little. Like huge little mogul.
It's the veganism, you know? It's the veganism for me, man,
If I could, if I could run on that being like, and I would.
But now I can't do it. Yeah, it's good on you.
But you're a powerhouse and you have, I think, one of the
(03:30):
greatest things for me, looking at like, your journey this far,
is how you've really tapped into, like, perfecting your
craft as a hairdresser. Yeah, killing the bridal game.
And I'm in the wedding space. I know how hard that is.
No one knows how hard it is to be in the wedding industry and
then sit in it. It's very difficult.
It's so draining, so rewarding, but so draining at times.
(03:53):
Then you would also do education, then run a salon,
then launch products. Yeah.
And then also tap into the celebrity market, which I feel
like that in itself I'd fate like it's.
You did well. Yeah, I did well.
Fashion Week. I know, but I'm talking about
like the celebs. You get the celeb celebs, you
(04:13):
know, you get the, the US celebs, you know what I'm
talking about? I do.
Who's the biggest celebrity you've touched here with it?
Depends on who you're talking to.
Like like for me, I feel like the most nostalgic celebrity
I've worked with is TLC. But like depending on who's
(04:34):
listening, they'll be like lol, you know, because like not
people don't think about the next generation, don't know who
they are. Did you know?
But for me, that was a pinch me moment because like I had them
on my scrapbook. Like, you know, growing up at
school. I'd like record it.
It was like your phone ringtone where you'd hold it to the.
(04:54):
Speaker And then I'd probably say most relevant, and I'd
definitely call her a celebrity,is Daisy Perkins.
Holy moly. Yeah, that was because of I.
Didn't know that guy. No way.
He like, chased her down in Vegas.
It's like, hey, my sister's here, she's a hairdresser, She's
really cool. We're not weirdos.
Can she do your hair literally? But I wouldn't even rock up to
(05:17):
the door, I'd get so embarrassed.
No, no, no, he literally, and I think it was it was one of those
moments where her brother used to shoot her content.
So I think she was like this is so cute and really induced.
So cute. That is so funny.
That's a good story. There's so many places I want to
go to, but I just want to know like, what's new with you right
now? Like how's currently going on
for Natalie Ann? What is new?
(05:38):
I know you're doing education, yes, but what is new at the time
of? Recording you're doing less
education and I feel like everything that I do is
educational. Like the the label of like when
I think, you know, when you say education, I feel like most
people think it's master class orientated.
And I feel like I started that in our industry, you know, 10-4
(06:00):
actually 13 years ago. And it was amazing.
But I feel like what's next? You know, I don't think that
people want to sit stale in a master class.
You know, they don't necessarilywant to sit there for seven
hours and get their head smashedin by an educator.
So we've really tried to change the dynamic of the way that we
(06:22):
share knowledge. You know, I watch the trends, I
watch people. I'm constantly have my ear to
the ground on how people are absorbing knowledge and it's
getting shorter and shorter. And we need to make sure that
the format is entertaining. So it's more entertainment than
it is education only. So you know, you're entertaining
(06:43):
people and you're educating at the same time.
So prior to this sitting, I was talking to you about a million
and one things. I don't even know if you can
remember if your memory is that,you know, deep, but we were
talking about what's happened inthe past, what's happening in
the future. But for those who don't know and
who are listening, I'm actually quite close with Natalie and her
(07:04):
family. Yes.
Somehow in the mix of things with life, there's been an like
we've been intertwined. Yes, we're like on Easter, we'll
see each other or. Well, you're like, related to my
best friend Wendy. Yeah.
And then you live around the corner from my cousins.
Yes, my brother works with you. Yeah, so just like all
intertwined, right? Yeah, but then I I felt like I
was leaving the bridal industry as you were starting to pop off.
(07:28):
Shame on you, I know. You're joking.
It's. So fun I would have loved I've
still done bride with you. So I'm I'm still glad like I got
in there. I got in there, but we're
talking about a lot of things and I found out that you are
actually the salon's closing andI never knew of that.
So walk me through that process because from for me and my
experience is that the salon is like.
(07:52):
Nostalgic. It there's a lot of yeah, like
there's, that's a perfect word for it.
There's a lot of nostalgia that's linked towards it.
Everything I know about you, that was the first point.
Like the first place I think I met you was there.
Whenever you were doing something with charity, it was
there. Education was there.
Yeah, it was a core hub, and it was a beautiful home.
And it raised and sheltered, youknow, so many of my family
(08:17):
members and team members and turn them into weapons, you
know, And it was such a beautiful space for the last
decade. But I think what I'm really,
really good at is evolving, you know, and the next part of my
(08:39):
chapter just doesn't include a salon in its traditional form.
You know, I feel like the traditional salon model, you
know, it will always exist. But for me, the next chapter is
hair care and, you know, workingwith other artists and
hairdressers and globally not being tied down.
(09:04):
Like, I need to be able to jump on a flat and go open a
distribution in another country.And I feel like when people
wanted to come work at Natalie Ann, they wanted to work for me,
and I wasn't there. I haven't been there for a long
time. You know, I did offer it to my
sister. She didn't want it.
I really wanted to keep it in the family.
(09:25):
But, you know, everyone's got towrite their own success story,
you know? And I don't think that that
salon space needed to be open any longer, you know?
I thought you. I get it.
I feel like. But it it, it served its
purpose, definitely, yeah. Yeah, it did.
(09:46):
It did. From that one, that one little
shop. A lot did come out of it, like a
lot of not just talented people and humans and individuals, but.
But like, relationships, man. Yeah, memories.
A lot of would have happened inside.
Yeah, like lots of laughs. Good times.
You know, I look back sometimes at like Facebook memories and
(10:06):
you just see how young everyone looks and like how they used to
act a fool and I used to get so angry.
So it was good. And you no longer do bridal.
I don't, I do, but for family and friends like, you know,
that's good because I I still want to keep my hands in it, but
I was never available for a family member or, you know, a a
(10:29):
friend or. You're doing Ellie's hair, of
course. Of course, Ellie's, Michelle's.
I just do my cousins on the weekend I'm doing.
I don't know. Do you watch happy Hour?
No, I don't. The podcast No.
So funny. They are actually hoot.
Yeah. Best Nicky and Lucy.
I'm doing Nicky's wedding in Byron next week.
(10:50):
Awesome. OK, that's good.
But I just want to tap into thata little bit because you're
still so young. Why did I retire?
Yeah, you're still so young. Like why would you not give it
up? But why would you move to the
next chapter now? I feel like you still have so
much in you. Look, I don't like to call it a
retirement because that means I'm like, done.
(11:12):
I think bridal is a skill acrossall creative industries, right?
I think if you develop that skill, you know how to be in the
wedding industry, you know how to run a book in the wedding
history, you know how to build afollowing in the wedding
industry. You know how to wedding
etiquette, for example. That's a skill you always have.
You know, I don't think it's about relevancy.
(11:32):
I think it's about professionalism and how you can
turn up. So I think at any point in time,
if I felt the need financially or the yearn creatively to go
back, I could at any point in time because now I've got all
the secret sauce and the ingredients and the, I guess
legacy. But at the same time, I wanted
(11:54):
to spend more time with my children.
And I mean, I had my son three days later, I had a wedding.
My son, my husband brought my son to me so I could breastfeed
him. And that's not sustainable for
me. Along with working seven days a
week as well as, you know, and Ialso want 200 brides a year.
(12:17):
Dude. I was like next level.
Yeah, it's a lot. Plus the team.
I was with you on the wedding that you were.
It was the last wedding before you had your son.
I don't know if you remember it out in dual.
Oh yes. I was with you on that.
Job. I think I was like due that
week. Yeah, You know, Yeah.
It was like, you're like, you weren't too sure if you're gonna
(12:37):
give birth by then or not. Yeah, that's right.
But you're just so chill about it.
I don't know if it's like a female thing or if it's like a
motherly thing or if it's like when girls get pregnant and they
just like force themselves to bechill or like, Nah actually
that. Chill.
Nah, I'm actually that chill. But I think it's an individual
thing. You know, I've got ants in my
pants. I need to just keep going what
(12:59):
I'm going to do at home. I know, but still like you don't
want your water to break on a veil.
It'd be funny it. Would be very funny.
I'm sure the brides would be honoured.
But tapping into that a little bit further, obviously you had
Billy. How's Billy now?
Fall. Yeah.
So you had it four years ago. Yeah.
Well and truly. Like established feet, concrete
(13:22):
into the ground. Yeah, from the moment you found
out you're pregnant with Billy to up until her birth and that
adjustment period of like the first child, did you feel like
that either was a speed hump in the process, an accelerator, or
just shifted you in a positive or negative rate?
Like tell me the honest truth about having that first child
running a massive train that's going literally 200 KS an hour.
(13:47):
I don't. You know my family quite well,
right? Yeah.
So, you know, I didn't really want to have children.
Yeah. So and I think not enough women
talk about that really, but it'sa just a choice I made really
early on. And I think that's because when
I was really young, I went to a gynaecologist and, you know, he
basically was like, oh, you can't have children.
And I was probably like 14 when they told me that.
(14:09):
So I think subconsciously I toldmyself I didn't want them, but
maybe it's because I couldn't have them.
OK. Which was total BS really
because he wasn't God and clearly I could.
So that was fine. But I think I was also really
driven career wise that I, I didn't think I could have both
(14:32):
personally. And then I spoke to a really
good friend of mine who is also one of my mentors, and she said
to me that if you think that you're motivated now, wait till
you have children because then you have something to work for
that's not yourself. So true mate.
(14:56):
I didn't even need more rocket fuel, but they are like rocket
fuel because that's who you workfor now.
So every decision you make, right, they're smarter because
either they're taking you away from your family, right?
Or they're paying you enough to then give to your family.
(15:17):
So your decisions become really black and white to be honest.
100% and you really, I, I, I really resonate with that
personally. Obviously I'm not a mum, but you
know, since having Andrea, I waslike, changed everything,
changed our perspective in a great way.
Like it is an accelerator, but it also shifts your values in in
(15:38):
in different in different light.And I was very fortunate, like I
had amazing pregnancies and goodbirths.
So I know that there's going to be people listening that
probably didn't have that experience.
But my body was, it's a workhorse, man.
It was just, it's ready, it's trained.
It's like meant to go back to work.
So it did. I I know the answer to this, but
(15:59):
for the listeners listening, obviously Arthur's your husband
and he is a great dad. I've seen him hands on so many
times and you know, for those who don't follow, you would have
like, you know, they wouldn't have seen it, but we all know
Arthur's a great dad. Talk to me about the importance
of his role because I know that obviously the answer is that
he's a great support system in your life, both business wise
(16:21):
and as a father and as a partner, not just as a father.
Talk to me about that and his support role and the importance
of it. Well, he is such a crucial part
of the Natalie Ann business, ourfamily home and our
relationship. You know, I think as a husband,
(16:42):
he's more than I could have everdreamt of, even though I fully
manifested him to the point where I manifested the street he
lived on. I missed it a little bit though.
Like I said, I wanted him to live in Condo park.
I wanted him to live on Black Charlie's Hill.
He didn't. It was like further down on
Hunters, but like 2 weeks. The point where I said I wanted
him to drive AU and be a builderand have no hair and eventually
(17:06):
we shaved it. But it's so funny.
Like I fully manifested my husband and I.
I definitely got what I wanted and then some.
And he is the most incredible father.
Looking at his father and knowing his father, I knew the
kind of father he would be. So, yeah, we're really blessed
(17:27):
from a support system perspective.
He enables I guess every dream that I possibly have.
He's very strategic. So he'll take my airy, fairy,
flighty creative mindset and then actualize it.
Handles logistics, our warehousing, our product demand,
(17:51):
financials, like personally and business and, you know, drops
off the kids, picks up the kids,you know, like way more than I
think any working father does. Yeah.
No, he's great. Yeah, I've seen him, Tom.
He's actually very great, particularly with a daughter.
You know, he's, he's very. That's his best and.
(18:13):
If you look at him, you're like,does it matter?
He seriously wants a daddy daughter podcast.
He should do it. He really, He really should.
He can actually use his space orremove the branding.
I'll put photos of them. You can.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
I still remember that, I'm not even going to go back to that
video, but that hilarious video of the cleaner will clean it up.
That video, the one you uploaded?
(18:34):
Oh my God, with Billy, she's so precious now.
All the time that he was doing her hair.
I'm filming and she's holding a tampon and I had no idea.
And she's looking at this tampongoing and she's like, I don't
know one, I mean. She walked out of your your
Fashion Week and said subscribe to my channel to everyone.
I was like. She dressed herself so funny.
(18:57):
She wore blue heels, blue dress.She blue stockings.
That's like absolutely hilarious.
Is there any other advice you'd give to mothers that are working
in the working industry? In the wedding industry.
Working industry that are like running a full blown business or
full time working. Look, I think, and I truly
believe this. Happy mum, happy babies.
(19:19):
It's true. You know, and I know a lot of
people suffer from like mum guilt and all the things, but I
think if I'm happy, I can then be the best version of myself,
which will then turn into the best role model for my daughter.
And you know, we're going to teach her to like be her own
girl boss if she chooses that. And if she doesn't, then we'll
(19:43):
also support her. But she'll understand what work
ethic is. If you were to guess her career,
what do you reckon it would be? I have no idea at the moment.
Like I I definitely think that she could run some sort of like
political party. Like she's just like, she's
extremely she's. Going for counsellor of that
(20:05):
girl, that's what. She's going for the funniest
thing, actually. She pulls down her nappy right
yesterday and she goes Duke, bam, Duke bam.
I go, what Mum? She goes, I've got a skid mark.
I go, what tan line? She was showing me her tan.
Line. Oh my gosh, I'm that's.
Like a cat. She's a great She's actually a
(20:26):
teenager. Yeah, she's not even a kid.
She's a 21 year old American. YouTube.
She's actually a teenager. I'm going to move on to the next
topic because I'm actually very curious about a couple of things
about the product world and likethe Natalie Ann products because
for me as a business owner, that's very, it's very like far
reached, if that makes sense in the sense of like it, it seems
(20:48):
very unattainable. To own your own product line.
To own their own product line. Yep.
Think of the products. Yep.
Find manufacturers, brand it. Yep.
Afford it. Like, put that feasibility
aside, then what do you do? You know what I mean?
Like, there's a lot of questionsthat I have.
Yeah. But one of the main questions I
have is because you're a very personal brand.
(21:08):
You're Natalie Ann, right? It's your name.
I know you've had salons and you've had a lot of little, a
lot of like other names underneath you that have grown
into their own world, but everything is Natalie.
And so it's very personable. People can put the name to the
face. Founder Lip.
Being in the product world, how did you find with the
competitiveness? Be authentic and still remain
(21:31):
authentic within yourself. Well, I think calling it Natalie
Ann really made it. I mean, I had no choice.
It has to be authentic. Like it's me, it's me in a
bottle, it's me in a can. And I think, you know, we were
toying with the fact our trading, our trading name and
(21:52):
our company name two different things, but our company name was
what we were going to call the brand.
And you know, a really good friend of mine said to me, just
do it, like just put your name on it.
And I think my original reservations in the beginning
was, are you going to fail like a people not going to buy it?
It's got my name on it, whereas you could hide behind a brand
(22:13):
name. But I needed to call it Natalie
Ann because I needed to give it everything because that's my
reputation on the line. Every time someone sprays it,
every time someone uses it, every time they smell it, it's
me. Yeah.
And I think that keeps me honest, that keeps me authentic,
that keeps me true. So if you're ever thinking about
(22:33):
doing it, yeah, mate, it keeps you straight and narrow.
I tell you that much because it's your reputation.
Do you know how many places it'sstocked in?
We have 1500 stockers in Australia and New Zealand.
Only Molly, 1500. Isn't that amazing, Are there?
That many hairdressers in this country?
God. Oh, there's more than that.
I think there's like, oh, I actually couldn't tell you the
stat, but I don't know, maybe 50,000.
Wow. And I don't know if this is too
(22:56):
much of A forward question, maybe obviously something that
you might not want to share and that's totally fine.
But when you've thought of the product, Ryan, like was an idea
in your mind, how did it go fromthat step to sourcing the
manufacturer and like speaking to people and like getting it
like, do you know what I mean, like?
The. Process the 1st jump, not the
process of like getting the bottles made in the design but
(23:19):
like that first jump of like what did you do Google?
Definitely not. I was really fortunate.
I mean, today is so much easier than when I first started the,
the the product line. But I have a really good friend
of mine who is in product development.
So it made my journey very different because he already
(23:42):
had, you know, so many differentproduct formulas that we could
test and try and work with. So that's definitely one way you
can go about it. You can find a product formula
that has so many different products, you could easily white
label a product. That's usually when the
product's already made and you stick your label over at the top
(24:03):
of it, which is not something that we really wanted to do, but
people do it. Like a lot of the brands that
you know and love are white labels, right?
I want to. Know who because no shade to
them, but I don't want to be a part of it.
But you know, it is, it is, it'svery common.
So that's one route, but you know, we, I think the difference
(24:25):
between human eyes, we're both hairdressers.
So we also became very, very obsessed with performance, you
know, because we wanted it to work for us.
And that was the one thing that was really important is like,
how can we make this better? Like, how can we, you know,
turn, for example, a nostalgic Hairspray?
(24:46):
Like why would I launch another Hairspray?
You know, what are the problems?What are we trying to solve
here? Like what do I hate about other
ones? It could just be the way it
sprays out like, but that's that's how my journey began.
But I think for anyone listeningwho wants to start today, it is
really as simple as, you know, find a product manufacturer for
(25:09):
lashes in Australia. OK, really.
Then you start to curate that list, literally open up a Google
document, curate all the lists of manufacturers that do you
know, private labels, you know, or they are willing to
manufacture a new type of hair or a different fabric or method,
(25:34):
you know. Then packaging and design your
graphic designer is everything. And then when we did a rebrand
for me, I loved, I love Angular lines, you know, I love things
that don't finish, you know, andthey kind of feel like they're
very timeless colour palette so much.
(25:58):
It's very you. It is very mean.
It is very you. Yeah.
You can see your touch points and sprinkles over everything.
Thank you. I kind of touched on that.
That was very, very, very insightful.
And that's something I just really wanted to know because I
feel like everything else outside of that realm is pretty
self explanatory. And if it's not anyone that's on
that journey, it would be self explanatory to them.
So it makes a lot of sense. But you and I have chatted about
(26:20):
it. You should do it.
Yeah, like there's a there's a million and one dreams, but for
me, it's kind of like what resonates in that in the current
moment is what's important for me and what what's in the next
two years? What's in the next 5 years?
What's in the next 10 years. I feel like I'm more of a
quality over quantity kind of person and I never want to rush
(26:40):
onto something too quickly. You've had 24 years in this game
now. Yeah, I'm like at 10, you know
what I mean? So it's like I want to kind of
make sure that when I'm doing something, it's not just what
I'm ready for in any other world, like financially, if
anyone, it's more my mental state as in like I can give it
110%. Does that make sense?
(27:04):
It's like when I moved into the wedding world, it was like I
needed to do what so many peoplebefore and was like, you're
ready, you're ready. Please.
Should I be? Please.
And I'm like, I'm ready when I'mready.
I'm not ready when you're ready.Yeah.
Because if if I'm not ready, I'mnot going to believe in it.
I need to believe. In it, you're the kind of person
that needs to give someone, whoever the client is, you're
(27:27):
everything. Oh, they literally.
Yes. You.
You hired for the day you. Purchased me for the day.
They literally say I'm yours like it's whatever you want.
I've seen it and I was the same,yeah.
You know, I can see it as well. Yeah.
I want to touch on a topic aboutbusiness in general.
It's more about the salon because speaking I'm based off
(27:49):
my experience, you know my experience and story.
But for those who don't know this far, we're listening to
this episode. I used to work for a photography
studio exclusively for like 3 years or so.
His image house and his Henrik. Literally like a brother to me.
We have the best relationship, love him.
It was the best journey I ever took.
It was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in my
(28:10):
life. He taught me pretty much
everything. I still call him boss to this
day and he's still forever my mentor.
Like I'll there's never going tobe a day I don't look up to him.
He taught me so many ropes for me to learn on and I feel like
he's a massive credit to my career and he deserves that
right to like literally take everything.
But you are pretty much in that same seat that he was in where
(28:34):
at the salon you had so many incredible hairdressers and
stylists and so many people thathad individual independent
names. Some were family and some
weren't. And then they branched out to
their own. Give me a little bit of insight
back in that time. So rewinding your mind, how was
(28:55):
that like? And also what is your advice to
other people that have juniors below them, whether it's an
assistant, stylist or anything like that?
Do they bleed their knowledge onto the person?
Do they watch them flourish? What did it really do for you?
OK, there's so wait so many waysto unpack this.
Question Packer or leave everything on the table.
(29:16):
First and foremost, when I firstlaunched all of their individual
Instagrams with their name, right, everyone told me I was
crazy. They were like, don't teach them
everything. Don't give them their individual
social media. You're pretty much handing them
your database. I was like OK valid, true 100%.
(29:40):
However, if I need to train, teach, guide, then hand over my
current clientele in order for me to be able to scale up this
business, I'm not handing my client of 10 years to my junior.
I want them to be perceived as my equal, so she trusts that
(30:05):
person. Does that make sense?
I completely get what you're saying.
And regardless of what I've taught, any of the, you know, my
quality of my kids, my kids thatused to work with me, right?
They're also individual. Like I could teach them another
for another 10 years, right? But everyone's hand is
(30:27):
different. What we do is handmade.
So no one's going to be me and no one's going to be Doughty and
no one's going to be of show. No one's different and the taste
is different, right? So that was the first thing.
We had a really solid team for areally long time.
What I will say to people is timing is interesting, right?
(30:49):
So I was pregnant and breastfeeding Billy when three
of them left at one time. That was challenging, to say the
least, because you've got three of your core team, you know,
that are going out onto their own.
So yes, it affects the business.Yes, I think because it's
(31:09):
family, you become emotional about it.
But then you learn, right? And you learn the type of
relationships you want to have with people, the legacy you want
to leave. I think that's a big thing for
me. Like when I die, I want people
at my funeral to be like, she impacted me.
(31:31):
But that's true. That's how you should live.
It's like, what do you want to be known for?
And I, I don't want any bad blood with anyone.
And as the years went on, you know, every person that then
leaves you to go on their own, you become, it becomes more of a
process. You, you understand an exit
strategy. You understand like how to
(31:51):
onboard people better, but you also know that that's your role.
That's my role. My role is to educate the next
generation. I love it, I'm obsessed with it.
I love seeing their successes. They're a part of our brand
story. They are a huge part of our next
chapter. They all use NA in their spaces.
(32:13):
They're all proud ambassadors. And I also feel like now we can
really change that narrative. Like, we can now say this is the
way it should be. You don't have to leave on bad
terms. You really don't.
And I know it's always going to be a sore spot for people.
But, you know, I think communication is really
(32:34):
important. Like, if you want to leave, you
know, your current mentor, right?
What does that look like? Yeah.
You know, and I think however, early on that discussion, when
the time is right, how do you want me to go about this?
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I completely get it.
Yeah, I was shooting bricks whenI told Henry.
Everyone does, man, shooting it.I mean, Daniel wanted to leave
(32:58):
me last, you know, month. And Daniel?
Do you want to take a seat at the table?
Just an intervention. Bro he even he even had a moment
where he's over when are. They you mumble a little bit,
you mumble a little bit. It's so funny, yeah.
Just because it'd be the alpha energy, you know?
Oh 100%. But all it is is they love and
respect you, of course. And they shit themselves when
(33:18):
they try and tell you, yeah, because of that respect.
It means a lot, Yeah. You spoke about how obviously
those family involved and familyin the business, lots of it's
like a golden rule. Not to.
Work. Don't mix money with family
because you know it can literally explode and obviously
emotions mean a lot more family can get involved.
(33:40):
I personally wouldn't involve family in my business.
I'm going to be dead honest withyou.
My wife is it's just me and Alexia and then all of my
shooters are not related to me. It would take a whole lot for me
to introduce someone in the family and I have like three
siblings that are incredible a lie.
My brother, he's my bookkeeper, but that's different.
He's not really involved in likethe creative stuff.
(34:01):
He's involved in the boring accounting shit.
But I would not involve family in business because for me, I'm
I can be quite firm at times when something doesn't go my
way. And then I don't want to offend
someone. Well, I don't want to upset
someone. So I.
Maybe that's the difference between you and I.
That's what I was going to say. So how did you ever it's not
(34:22):
just about the exit that I'm talking about.
How did you work with families so freaking closely like I'm?
Obsessed. With them or just family in
general? You know I hate hiring people
that say yes to you. That's what I've noticed.
What do you mean? So I don't like yes people like
(34:42):
I don't like to hire someone andthen not having opinion, it
makes me upset. Your family will always have an
opinion, right? They always, well, my family
anyway. Your family for sure.
Right. But my family pull me up like if
they, I mean, he's here in the room, so it's really awkward.
But like, you know, from what I wear to to how I sound to what I
(35:07):
eat. Do you know what I mean?
He's like that. Shit, he looked great today, by
the way. Thank you.
It's fine. You, you got the, you got the
green. Light, but it's so funny because
like, you know, and that's because they have your best
interests at heart, right. So I think really it was more
beneficial for me, like because we handled these people that
were just like, this is shit. This could be better, you know,
(35:28):
like Robin was the first person I hired and it was insane.
Like she used to run my book like American Airlines, mate,
like I'm talking back to back freaking gun.
She is, she's crazy, crazy. Like my, I'm like, please,
Robin, my fingers are going to fall off and she's like, it's
OK. You know, you're making a lot of
(35:48):
money, so deal with it, right? So it, I don't know, I just
loved it. I loved it.
We always had fun. But it also built a really
beautiful culture in the NatalieAnn brand because people knew it
was family. So, you know, almost to the
point where they felt like they couldn't get in unless they were
related. It was so funny at some point.
(36:10):
You'd have had great morale. Yeah, but we still do it.
My sister in law's still in the business.
My brother's still in the business.
My husband. Would I do it again?
Probably not, just because they're all of age now where
they need to do their own thing.Yeah, they do.
(36:33):
I get it. They're ready.
They all need to go build their own story.
Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, but don't be scared of it.
Oh, I I did it, babe. I'm I'm good.
Oh, you're talking to the Oh, you're talking family.
Oh, OK, The family suffer. Yeah, they made it go on my own.
I'm like, I'm a bit on my own. Oh.
No, I know that. Oh, the.
Family. Yeah.
(36:53):
No, see, I don't know. It's a bit different.
It's a little bit different. I don't know if I could.
Yeah, no, I couldn't because sometimes like a.
Lot of people say they can't work with their husband or their
wife. Yeah.
But you just need to have there's.
Sometimes when someone will tellme to do something or like just
you should really think of this.And I'm like, I think no.
And it's like, I don't want to listen to you.
It's like. I love that.
(37:15):
I think I didn't ask you. That's what my response is.
That was the creativity. Yeah, it's it's a little bit
funny, but you know, everyone has everyone has a different
relationship with their family though.
And everyone's family dynamic is, is very, very different,
right? And I obviously know your family
and use use a very thick skinnedlike if I ever want honest,
(37:35):
honest advice or I'm having a real problem, like a real
business or like whatever problem, and I know I'm calling
Robin. It's like I know I prepare
myself. Then she's going to RIP the band
aid off. She's she's going to hurt my
feelings a little bit because she's going to tell me the truth
that I didn't want to hear. Do you know what I mean?
But. I know your family's like that.
(37:56):
Yeah, we are. But for me, I I opt into it as a
friend. You know what I mean?
So that's what I'm always curious about because sometimes
when your family and you're working together on a Monday to
Friday, you come on Wednesday, you've like got no sleep awake
and you're just like, I don't want to hear it, but you do it,
which is great. But you honestly, he's have a
beautiful relationship, all of you.
He's having. Yeah, it's crazy, but it's crazy
(38:19):
in the good way. It's like awesome.
He's need a reality TV show. That would get us cancelled very
quickly. A. 100%, I'm going to touch on
here a little bit. Go for it.
I'm going to bounce around this podcast, keep people on their
toes. Any trends you see coming up?
Oh yes. Bridal and unbridal categorise
(38:39):
them both. OK, bridal, the head of the
bridal hair game at the moment, you know who you are, so this is
for them. Change the trends.
I don't think there's been a newtrend since I left, so change
(39:00):
the trends. Is there a trend you want to see
leave specifically? No, but I'm yet to see something
new. Have you seen something new that
I don't know about? Don't flip this back on me.
I'm not getting. I'm actually, you know, I said
it the other day and I was actually really like, I've
looked at it. I've been out for a year.
(39:21):
Yeah. Come on, you've.
Been out for a year. Yeah, wow.
Time looks quick, OK Anything trend wise you see outside of
bridal? Let's talk think about just like
your general girl and also red carpet.
Yeah, like plats, like low, high, whatever it is, long
(39:48):
plats, braids, they're all coming back.
Loads of stacked accessories, like layered upon layered
accessories. I mean, that's what we've just
seen at Paris and Milan and I, you know, everything's quite
sleek, snatched wet. So we're going away from soft,
flowy glazed. Bouncy blow dryers I.
(40:08):
Mean look, they're going to always exist because the big
bouncy blow dryers are staple. You know what I mean?
It's like a short back in slides.
They're never never going to go anywhere.
But I do think from trend reportor, or you know where it's
going, I definitely think it's going to be tighter more yes,
snatched. Do you ever see this thought
(40:29):
literally just entered my head? Do you ever see yourself
collaborating with like a major hair?
I don't know if this is the right Word application tool
'cause like I literally just pictured it in my head.
No, no, I don't think so. Even if the check is juicy.
If the check is juicy, no, look,I, I don't, I think the big
(40:51):
ones, the reputable ones would never do it because if they're
not doing a collab already, they're not going to, it's not
in there and they're not agile enough, I feel because by the
time that they worked on that, that like a 24 to, you know, 48
month process and who knows where we'll be then.
(41:13):
So I don't know if it'll be the right decision for me right now,
but who knows? Yeah, you never say never.
You know, you can shout out a couple of brands if you want to.
I'm joking and do it from the outside, the beauty industry, it
looks very glamorous. It feels glamorous.
You guys are glamorous. Instagram, TikTok, everything
looks great. You guys are very successful.
(41:35):
Everything looks very polished. And you know, you know what I'm
talking about. You know what, Jazz?
But what are your thoughts or outlooks about the difficulties
in the industry or any of the challenges that you find goes on
that's not really spoken about? I look, I feel like time
(41:59):
management, work life balance isone of the biggest things, you
know, for beauty professionals. It's one of those things where,
you know, we're the first one onset and we're the last to leave,
right? And that's not spoken about
enough. You, you see this beautifully
curated edited image or video, they don't see the 9 hours of
(42:24):
compounded work that went into that.
So I, I definitely think if, if you know, a young hair makeup
artist is like wanting to get into television, film, like, you
know, wedding industry or salon work, like it's really long
hours and they've, they've got to be prepared.
They're going to love it enough.Any advice about overcoming
(42:44):
those challenges when it does come to hours or what?
For instance, fatigue. Or more specifically, creative
fatigue. How someone deals with their own
physical fatigue is their own problem.
Yeah. But like creative fatigue when
you're actually on the floor andyou're doing client, client,
client, client in a salon or bridal, bridal, bridal 7
bridesmaids. Like, how do you combat creative
(43:04):
fatigue? Oh.
That one's easy, OK? Everybody needs a creative
space, you know, whether it be this tiny little room or a
trestle table or whatever it maybe for hairdressers, your
mannequin head needs to be your best friend and you need to
change shapes, test, lock yourself in a room for a week if
(43:29):
you can, and just create new shit.
Because every time I ask somebody when was the last time
they beat on their craft, their answer is never.
How are you going to get your creativity and your juices
flowing if you're not playing and working?
You know, when was the last timea makeup artist got out a face
(43:50):
sheet and sketched out somethingnew and new, A new cut crease, a
new shape, a new colour palette like.
And that's what the greats do. They spend time on their craft.
And you know, this generation really needs to reinvest in
their craft. Less time on social, more time
in the lab. So your advice is to actually
(44:11):
like schedule block out time periods with every weekly for
early or monthly to say this is me time. 100%, if they're
learning, it's daily. So if they're like in an
apprenticeship or they're learning their first, like
getting on the tools daily, you know, think about athletes,
right? You don't become a pro swimmer
because you're not you're not swimming in offseason.
(44:34):
Actually, very true. They swim every single day of
their life, multiple days, like multiple times a day.
And that's to be the best. But if you don't want to be the
best, you could just be average.It's fine.
Yeah, yeah. If you for me, it's good.
If you were to do anything ever as a bridal stylist or bridal
hairdresser, think about your brides, the last decade, 2 days,
(44:57):
anything you would have changed or any anything that you kind of
like. I could have done this better or
this was really hard. I want either a challenge or a
regret. You can pick.
I don't think it's a challenge or a regret.
I, I loved what we built. I loved the processes.
And I tell you why because each part of my career thus far has
(45:20):
segwayed and taught me somethingnew that I now use in my current
business state. OK, right.
So I, I never believe in regret.I think everything is a
learning, right? What I do believe is that if I
was to do it again, we're spoiled now with automation and
(45:42):
AI and and amazing tech that we could implement into our
businesses to make things more agile, faster, more accurate and
seamless. To my admin.
Admin workflow so much that I now know that I would definitely
implement. Yeah, but it just probably
(46:02):
wasn't even around it. I feel like AI and all of that
kind of notion and everything that it's like more recent and
like literally in the last few years, it's really popped off.
Yeah, but I also think from a fatigue perspective, brides
expect a lot from their suppliers, you know, maybe not
their cars etcetera, but I thinkfrom their glam squad like their
(46:25):
photographer, their make up artist, their hairdresser, you
know, there there is a lot of back and forth.
I do believe that process needs to be streamlined for the mental
health for the artist, but also for the clarity from the client.
You know, they still need to understand that there is a
difference, you know? Yeah, I know that's what you're
(46:46):
saying. Streamlining there is just a
whole lot of advice that you've given a lot of people.
Thanks. I'm just going through all the
list of questions that I have for you and they're just like, I
feel like this podcast can go onfor like 900 years, but I don't
know if like, you know, you're abooked and busy lady.
I don't know if you have that time, but I will actually jump
through. I want to do this first and then
(47:07):
a question someone has submittedfor you.
OK. Great.
What's this? Just we'll roll with it, but
basically it's like a random question kind of game.
Oh. I love.
This, it's literally you're going to, you're going to pick
the question you have and it's out of random, OK.
And I want you to answer as truthfully and as honestly as
you can. And you can think about your
(47:28):
answer for quite a minute. Pick any card, pick a card, any
card, and read out your questionwhen you have the chance.
Of course, she gets a brown 1. Natalie Ann.
Babe, I'm always on brand you. Know.
Oh my goodness. What's the weirdest thing you
find attractive? That is such a random question
(47:51):
out of this whole box. I don't think it's weird, but
the most attractive thing to me in a person is their
intelligence. Oh, like fuck, Yum.
OK, if they're smart, we're there.
That's. Not a weird thing at.
(48:12):
All Yeah. Like, like over like hotness,
Yeah. Yeah.
Like I could clearly say somebody's unattractive.
Like I could see they're not very attractive, but then they
speak and all of a sudden they're attractive.
There you go. See what I mean?
Well, guys, she's married, so just, you know, sit down, settle
(48:33):
down, keep your seatbelts buckled in.
You know what I mean? I know what you mean, but.
Now everyone knows that there's a smarty pants, you know?
I know, right? Well, you've really let the
juice go. But so Henrik was on the podcast
before you, and I asked him to ask you a question, but he
didn't know it was you. Does that make sense?
So he just gave a question to the next person that was going
(48:54):
to be on the episode. Interesting.
He asked. You ready?
Are you sure You ready for this one?
He asked. Do you think we live in a
parallel universe where the where there are alternate
universes going on at the same time?
I do. Yeah.
What makes you feel like you know that?
(49:15):
I, I don't actually, I don't have no evidence to back that
up, OK. But I do believe whether you
call it a universe, whether you call it, it is a universe,
right? I do believe that there's
something bigger or maybe the same size but different parallel
(49:37):
to us. I do so parallel, I think so.
Do you reckon there's like another Natalie Ann I?
I I've never thought that deep about it, but there's got to be
more than what we know. There has to be right do.
You reckon if the parallel universe Natalie Ann and the
parallel universe George John's podcast came out would have been
better than this one or worse? Fucking that's 100%.
(50:01):
I don't know. No, no, it.
Depends on how smart they were, that's true.
Fuck. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, but I don't want to be that guy.
But. Is that they're sexier than us?
Do you know what I'm saying? Like look I.
Don't know if my imagination's that date.
That was the weirdest fucking question, Henry.
When he asked that question, I. Told you his date but he
(50:23):
actually kills me every time I see him.
I'm like you know what it is. Actually I have a meme I should
send him. It was this ADHD meme that I
sent my friend today and it readADHD people cleaning their out
their wardrobe. Right?
So you meant to be cleaning out your wardrobe?
People with ADHD, we get lost inthe wardrobe and then it comes
(50:48):
out and it's wow. It's like a bell song.
Tada. Anyway, I'm going to share that
meme. He shared me a meme and he said
best friend, let's do a podcast together One minute later and
it's image of people getting arrested.
What are you going to talk aboutbro?
Hangover. A lot of universes.
If you can. Can you give me a question for
(51:10):
the next person that's going to be on this podcast?
It's actually a really, really good person.
The next episode's really good. I, I, we haven't recorded it,
but give me a question for the next.
Don't make it about universes, please, for the love of God.
I won't. I'll tell you who it is later.
(51:43):
What is their current biggest head fuck?
Do you want to say head? Fuck yeah.
Like one that's gone, that's currently like they're current.
The next person on the podcast is my mum.
I'm joking. I'm joking.
You're like Welly. George, George.
(52:06):
George. George.
George. George.
OK. NAD, I'm very, very excited for
their answer. Natalie Ann, thank you for being
on the podcast. Thank you for.
Having me, I really appreciate it.
It's a lot of juice. No, I was sponsored by Daniel.
I won't say he was. Actually like was so zesty it
(52:27):
actually dehydrated me. Right after this podcast, I'm
going to literally get you an IVdrip.
You're cool man. You're all good.
And with an IV drip company. Please hit me up.
Go to hydrate this girl, take iteasy.
Thanks for coming. Appreciate you.
And I'm so happy for you. Thank you.
(52:48):
It's going to be a very good series.
I love the name, it's very creative and I miss being on the
crew table. We want you back.
We want you back.
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