026. PHOTOGRAPHY BY SANDRA [VIDEO]

From bankruptcy to booked out — how Sandra built a thriving photography brand after hitting rock bottom.

In this episode, we sit down with Sandra, the heart behind @photography_by_sandra, one of Sydney’s most sought-after photographers for newborn, family, and milestone portraits.

Her story begins long before the lens—growing up in a household that lost everything during the 1992 recession. At just 12 years old, Sandra watched her family’s world turn upside down. By 14, she was working multiple jobs to help keep the lights on.

From surviving hardship to building a six-figure creative business, Sandra opens up about:

– Making the leap from school teacher to full-time photographer

– The struggles and wins of building a business from scratch

– The pressure of social media and standing out in a saturated market

– What clients really don’t understand about photographers

– How motherhood has changed her creative process

– Building trust and comfort with families behind the lens

This is a raw and powerful episode about risk, reinvention, and resilience—told by a woman who turned her story into strength.

HOSTED BY @georgejohnphotography

PRODUCED BY Daniel John

BROUGHT TO YOU BY @crewtable

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Well, Sandra, hi, welcome to thecrew table.
Thank you so much. I'm excited to.
I'm with you, these guys. This is the first time I've ever
actually met Sandra in person. So you know 2 photographers at
the table, you know it's gonna be good A. 100.
Percent we can literally pick each other's brain and, you
know, hopefully give everyone insight.
But Sandra is someone who's beenaround in the game for many,

(00:30):
many years. 13 to be exact. She's one of the OG true newborn
family milestone photographers, right?
That's who you'd identify, right?
Like the title is. And she has a very distinct,
unique kind of look and image. Yeah.
I feel like when I see you an image that's that's, I'm like,

(00:51):
that's hers. You can always just tell you.
Said that because that's what I want.
OK, I'm glad. That's always the best thing.
Yeah, it's always the best thingwhen a photographer can kind of
feel that way, that they have a distinct style that's been
fluid. But even over the years I feel
like it's been quite obviously you've gone on a journey, every
photographer does, but it's beenquite consistent to be like your
style. 100% I feel like, and that's just life that's taken me

(01:14):
to this part now. So I feel like in the beginning
it was all about what the trend was and the trend was and get
his style and this is what I came in with.
Solid, strong, trying to be the best at it.
But then COVID hit and I had a baby and life changed and I was
like, that's it. Different storytelling all

(01:35):
together. And you've got the new.
Space like not too long after that space space just completely
shifted all that for me so. It's awesome.
Well, behind a beautifully curated grid is a story of
someone that I feel like not many people know.
Kind of have like really good intuition with people.
It's really odd to say this, butI kind of can sense when someone
has stories behind them. I don't know, there's stuff

(01:58):
behind people's eyes and stuff. Obviously I've like read a
couple of things online about you that I've haven't been a lot
of information about, like your own personal journey and your
own reflections. I feel like your work and your
public kind of image is still very much professional.
Learn about your stuff. You're not quite, you know,
personal blog kind of person andquite private.

(02:19):
Yeah, I feel like I used to be in the beginning again.
I don't know what it was like when video first started on
Instagram. I was definitely one of the
first that sort of like went outthere full strong.
I must. Haven't seen that.
OK, well this is how I blew up. Like people always ask me, how
did you get to 153,000 followers?
That's a lot of man, it is a lotof followers.

(02:39):
But again, it's just numbers. We're not here to worry about
that. But there was a time, I would
say about 7 or 8 years ago, whenvideo just kind of started
kicking in and I put up a froggypose of a baby, you know, the
ones where they're holding. Their face up.
And it just went absolutely psycho, like I'm talking Yahoo
7. Whatever, Panda.

(03:01):
What made that go psycho though?Don't ask.
I don't know what it was, What? Was Yahoo 7 saying about it?
Don't know, like a Daily Mail was like posting it like
everyone was. It just went psycho.
And it's funny. Well, I was literally watching
my phone. Yeah, by the second I was
getting like 100 followers at a time.
I don't know what happened, but it just went psycho.
Wow. And I would say a lot of it was

(03:25):
Australia based, America based, even like Brazil, India, like it
was crazy. But it was that experience that
got me to be able to go and travel around the world teaching
what I love the most. So don't know if you've followed
that yet, but I was very lucky to work from my garage at home

(03:47):
yet be asked to go and do workshops all around that is.
That is incredible. So cool.
So would you say that like pushing through the kind of
tools that Instagram wants you to push through got you that
one? 100% right.
I was just. You still try to do that now.
Everything, everything. I try to do everything.
Obviously I'm not a dancer, OK, So I won't be dancing around and

(04:11):
doing stupid like cringey stuff,but I definitely do try to get
on and just try to use all the tools that I can.
I actually don't do any edits outside of Instagram.
So a lot of it's just done through the tools that they've
given us, OK. And.
They're here. That's interesting.
Good to know. Sometimes I get my son to do a
bit of cup, cup, but yeah, I haven't tapped into that yet.
It's good to have kids that are like, you know, in the

(04:32):
generation, you kind of want them to do the edits 100%.
If someone wants to stumble on your work for the first time
right now, or like doesn't know who you are, what do you want
them to feel or know about you? OK, so for me it's all about
emotion. A lot of my clients who walk in
at the moment, they're like, oh,we're a bit awkward in front of
the camera. We don't want to look into the
camera. I'm too big, I'm too fat, you

(04:56):
know, I don't like this side of my face.
So that's I'm like, you know what, half the time I'm not even
getting your face. So for me, it's all about the
emotional touch, the the caressing of that child on, on
their, on their, you know, chest.
It's about how they're looking into their eyes.
It's about just even touching the little fingers.

(05:16):
Everything for me that tells a story is what I wanna capture.
I don't wanna capture you looking in the camera.
I don't want those cringy imagesthat, you know, we all grew up
with. I wanna be able to.
Like star shots in the middle ofthe shopping centre, it's not
good. It's a butt flowing something.
You've got all of those stash somewhere.
Staring right like a little pop child.
Yeah. So for me, it's just, yeah, it's

(05:37):
it's all about emotion for me and just telling the story.
There's a notion in photography that says working with children
and animals is the hardest thingto capture because it's the most
unpredicted subject. 100%. Do you struggle with shooting a
newborn or like, you know, children?
And in general, how do you overcome that?
Like when you know you have three kids that come in or you
know a newborn baby and two siblings and it just turns I

(05:59):
have a secret. Weapon.
OK, OK, so my secret weapon is my assistant.
OK, My assistant, Diana is one of the most incredible people
I've worked with. Not only is my is she my cousin?
She's a very, very close person to me, but she's got four
children of her own. She also works for special needs
kids. Yeah.
So she just knows what to do. Like, I don't even need to speak

(06:23):
to her, tell her what to do. She just has a way.
She's got methods. She's got, you know, she just
knows. In house, Miss Rachel.
In house, Miss Rachel, I also, you know, my background, I was a
high school teacher for 10 years.
So that bringing that into my job, the patients levels you
have to have as a teacher, you all know you, you know, dealing

(06:47):
with the most difficult age thatI dealt with.
So from, you know, the ages of 12 to 18.
Yeah. And I also am a mum to three
boys. So.
So you feel like having the experience as a mother prior to
even starting the business and walking in with that is enough
confidence for me to have all the tools I need to get through

(07:09):
whatever difficult situation I'mgoing to be in.
So I never felt. I always get asked we take
photos away. I'm like, no, I can't do it.
And you, I can do it, but I just.
I just don't like handling a newborn.
Yeah, per SE. I'm like, I'll just take your
family photos when you're ready for your family photo.
It's nice and pretty. You know what I mean?
You. Also have to love like I
actually. I love, I love babies.

(07:30):
I'm a very clucky human. Like I love kids, but it's just
like the whole like putting themto sleep kind of thing is just
like very. I feel like it's so daunting.
It's like you either have to have the knack for it within
yourself. It's nothing you can actually
learn. No I but I could be wrong
because you do workshops like. Maybe you could prove me wrong
by that but. Give other people the tricks to

(07:51):
the trade and you know, show them how things are done.
But again, if it's not somethinginnate and something that you
don't actually enjoy and love, it doesn't matter how much you
can be workshopped or trained, you have to love it.
Because I have a friend named Kat and she did our baby photos
and I'll never ever forget this moment with my daughter.
She literally put her to sleep and it was like not enough time.

(08:14):
And I was like, what It is though.
I was like, I even said like, how did you do?
Like what's in your pocket? Like, you know, like what?
Definitely give him. Something what's, Yeah, what's
going on like? I think I always explain this to
parents too. With us, you know, someone who's
outside of the family and the smells that they used to.
We have nothing. We're neutral bodies.

(08:34):
So once we hold this baby, we don't have anything to offer it.
We don't have baby milk, we don't have, you know, the
daddy's sounds or the mummy's voice.
So they automatically feel a sense of calmness because as
soon as I hand it over to Mum, you'll notice straight away they
start. Kind of wanting something they.
Start to want to look for something or they they can sense

(08:54):
the parents around. So this is the one of the
biggest secret weapons that we have is that we don't have
anything to offer them and they just tend to and if they're
chilled. They they submit to it.
Yeah, they submit. Do you ever have moments where
it's like this is just not working?
We just gotta reshoot. I like on the day where it's
like we just. Cannot.
So 13 years now, I've maybe had to do that twice and solely not

(09:16):
because the baby is like, you know, a difficult baby.
It's because babies had something wrong with them.
So yeah, it's either they're tummy or they're colicky or
something that's just gone on for longer than 1/2 an hour
period and we've done everythingor even 45 minutes.
I'll exhaust every time I can, but then there's something there
that's obviously outside of my, you know, control and outside of

(09:38):
the parents control. And then we've just come back
and told them to come back at anolder age.
In the rare 2 times that that's ever happened to you, to someone
else listening who's probably a newborn photographer or a fan of
yours or been following you for a long time, any advice you'd
give how to deal with the clientin that moment?
Look, I think, I think it's a given sometimes where people are
just going to understand, you know, like they can clearly see

(10:00):
that I'm doing everything in my power to give them what they
came to me for. And if everything else around us
is not working in the favour. So the baby's crying the whole
time, Mum looks stressed, dad looks stressed.
You've got siblings running around sometimes as well,
whether they're first time mums or not, You know, a mum has just

(10:21):
had a baby is at the most vulnerable stage in their life.
So I feel like if you communicate well with them and
explain to them exactly what's going on, obviously they have
their expectations to come in and get the most beautiful
pictures of their children. But my biggest piece of advice
to most parents, you know, when we're having our phone call or,
you know, in our emails is just have 0 expectation because they

(10:45):
are going to control us, the babies.
Yeah, not us, not our expectations, not what photo you
want to achieve. They're the ones that control.
So we just have to listen to them.
They're the boss babies. That's awesome.
Yeah. What do you feel like there's
something that you wish people knew about you behind the camera
that like, isn't shown on the grid or publicly?

(11:07):
How much I love cars. The fuck?
I didn't expect that. That's random.
Well, you have three boys and, you know, you have to somewhat,
you know, blend into their world.
I'm a bit of a Rev head. I love cars.
I. That is so random but cool.
I think that's what I keep saying.
I didn't see what you pulled up in, do you have?
You don't want to see what I've pulled up with.
You can get out something. A Kia Carnival at the moment,

(11:28):
so. Rev Head.
Against what? What?
You would love though fuck you know so I.
Bought this Kia Carnival on the basis that my family is all
gonna be together and we're gonna go on big the holidays.
And then my son got his licence and nobody wants to drive with
me anymore. So I'm driving this bus like
it's my, you know, my mini Lamborghini or something.

(11:51):
But yeah, we're going to give that up soon and start driving
my husband's Mustang. That is very, very, very funny.
I'll get back to the whole work topic.
Yeah, but I want to push into more about who you are and who
Sandra is, and then we'll talk photography and everything a
little bit later. Nice babies and all that kind of
stuff, but what shaped your outlook in life growing up into

(12:13):
the person, the woman that you are now?
Obviously family life. Growing up my parents had
businesses. What were they in?
My dad was a restauranteur, so he had two Italian restaurants
with us growing up in Newtown. So I grew up in Punktown growing
up with seeing all these different shapes and sizes of

(12:34):
people. So I kind of was exposed to life
and people in general who are not the norm of an Arab girl
life. And mom was in that business.
Was she doing? Something she was mom, but dad
was obviously, you know, in the business.
He'd he'd been in hospitality since he was a young child,
since he left Lebanon, went to Italy, lived there for a little

(12:56):
while and then came here and started the journey and went to
an all girls Anglican school. As a Muslim.
I was probably me and my sistersand two other girls that were
the only Muslim girls in the school.
Why was that? Why?
English There were no Muslim schools growing back in our
days. Yeah, like last in that.
Area I went to Dame Bank in Hurst in Hurstville at the time.

(13:18):
Oh OK. We were living in Roselands,
grew up in Roselands and yeah, and it was just, I feel like all
those different life experiencesand being at schools where I
grew up playing violin and the piano and in every sports,
gymnastics and swimming, and I just holistically, I had such a

(13:41):
different upbringing to many of them.
Normal. Yeah, I was about to say like,
not to sound rude or I don't even know how to word this, but
you know, thinking about the generation before us, like my
parents today, not many kids didextracurriculum activities.
So it's very odd to hear that you're into.
Like I was involved in. Sounds like you were.
Yeah, like your parents put a lot in.
They really did. It's awesome.

(14:03):
Yeah, I used to do a bit of singing as well as in Planet of
the Choir, I thought. We're just gonna, we're just
gonna hear like all the random shit that Sandra has on their
belt. Rap head singer, violinist.
I'm telling you, I found out shewas a teacher like.
Yeah, I, I I've been there, donethat.
I've lived 7 lives. I really have.
I remember when I first started my first year of teaching and I

(14:24):
was actually really like gettingmyself revved up to want to go
audition for the Australian Idol.
I think it was like second season and I was you.
Know is that still up there? No, because I lost my voice my
first year of my teaching. Like I actually.
Hit. No, I meant like the Australian
Idol. Yeah, it's still around, but I'm
not going to be auditioning for that.

(14:45):
It's like sing. Could you sing Still now I.
Can't anymore that's what I I actually lost my voice like I.
Damage your vocal. Cords damage my vocal cords from
all the yelling and screaming that I did in my first two years
of teaching. But again, I was young and I had
no idea that I thought that was the way to do it because I went
to AII, taught at a school in mylocal area in Chester Hill.
Yeah. And a lot of the kids just

(15:08):
wanted to be my mates. And it was so hard to just, you
know, I was 22. I was teaching some kids who
were like, 1817. So these kids were almost like
my friends. Yeah.
Trying to, you know, put a line between me being their teacher,
Yeah, and me being from their community and knowing half their
cousins. And it was really hard for me to
sort of like really be a. Pretty, yeah.

(15:30):
And I lost my voice. So then my singing courageous.
Was that what you wanted to do? I just, I wanted to be on the
stage, OK. I was.
I was made for the stage. I've always loved the whole
singing, dancing. I danced until I was like 1819
again. There we go, there's another
one. So I just wanted to be on the
stage, but all the doors closed.And and the doors opened.

(15:53):
So one creative Ave to another. I know, right?
Yeah, but it was funny because Iwas always made to believe I
wasn't creative enough. What do you mean by?
That just growing up, like automatically I got like shut
down when I said I wanted to do photography.
I hate saying this, but my parents were like, you know,
this is not something that you know, you're going to get money

(16:14):
out of because, you know, I was an academic as well.
So I was always getting grades and studios and you had to go to
uni. So from the age of, you know,
6-7, I'm going to uni, but I don't know why I'm going to uni,
what I'm going to study, but I'mgoing to uni.
So photography was scrapped out of my, my actual like, you know,

(16:36):
subject selections because it's like, what are you going to get
from this? So ended up doing something else
completely and and, you know, just putting it somewhere in a
vault until I had my kids and that was when it came out.
But I mean, I was always that, you know, that person who took
the photography, like 2 took photos wherever we went.
Yeah. So it was there.
Aren't we all? But it was.

(16:57):
Yeah. And that's.
How it started, what role did your family, more particularly
your parents, but your family aswell like place into your life?
They play everything in my life.They're pretty much my biggest
supporters in everything that I do from a young age, like I've
always, always, like I said, because I always was that girl
who just put herself out there. I never ever felt that there was

(17:21):
any hurdle that I couldn't, you know, jump over or nothing was
hard. I always just wanted to be the
best version of myself no matterwhat.
And they were always there to hold my hand through it until it
came to photography, so took a while to twist their minds back
to that. Children of business owners, I
find always learn a lot from a parent who was a business owner.

(17:41):
Yeah, my dad was a business owner, was actually in the
wedding industry fine enough. And I would never have thought
that I would be in the wedding. Like, it never hit my mind.
OK. But it's funny because running a
business, I learnt so much from him.
Yeah, good and bad, like really like, really good, like work
ethic from him. And then also like, Nah, he
missed the mark with this. Yeah.
You know, you just kind of course so you can analyse

(18:02):
someone in your close circle really well.
That's right. What did your dad's experience
as a business owner, or like your experience viewing him as a
business owner and his experiences teach you?
What did you learn from his story?
Well, his story was that there was a lot of, I think there were
times in my dad's business decisions that he made that

(18:25):
affected how successful his business was going to be.
There was a lot of uncertainty in the economy at the at the
time that he decided to open up a bigger scale business and
there was a lot of a bit of overborrowing and that caused

(18:45):
inflation. Inflation then hit recession,
recession hit, payments weren't getting made, and then my dad's
ended up going into bankruptcy at a very young age for me.
So that resulted in us having tobe leaving the school that we

(19:06):
were at and being put into our local public schools.
That was a completely different culture shock for us because we
were always, you know, grew up in a certain way and then we had
to shift our mindset at such a young age.
And my, my kid, my siblings werea bit younger than us, but
younger than me. But I was the one that had to
just hold that together right from the beginning.

(19:27):
And watching him go through all of that almost made me freak out
when I started my own business because I took a chance on this.
It was something that I started on the side while I was
teaching, but it got to a point where I had to make a decision.
Do I run with my risk or do I just be safe and just stay doing

(19:49):
what I'm doing and be unhappy for the rest of my life?
And I knew that if I am going todo this, I'm going to do
everything in my power to make sure that this is there's a
longevity in this that that is not something that I'm going to
just take lightly. I don't just want to be a
photographer. I want to be the best at what I

(20:11):
do. I want to make sure that
everyone knows who I am. And yes, so I had that tunnel
vision right from get go. So do you think it's your main
drive? Yes, yeah.
Yeah. Does it still freak you out?
You still get that freak out. I think you're, you're not human
if you don't have freak outs. Like there are times where, you

(20:32):
know, I think I just spoke to you before we got home here that
I got the key to this studio. You know it, I'll explain the
studio story in a minute. But I got the key to the studio.
We had it all ready to go. And then all hell broke loose
across the world in Palestine. For me, How am I going to

(20:54):
promote this beautiful space andbeautiful families and newborn
babies when people are losing their babies across the world?
So that for me was the biggest hurdle for me.
And I'm like lost motivation. I shifted my mind to like, I
just got so consumed in what wasgoing overseas that how am I

(21:18):
going to like bring this back again?
Like how am I going to promote ahappy family, which is what I
do. This is this is what I do for
living. You know, I get it.
But then I had to like, recoup. I'm like, it's either I'm going
to lose this business that I've worked over 12 years for and now
this is one of the momentous moments.

(21:40):
Yeah, such a big milestone. Ruin.
It's the biggest milestone of mylife.
And then all of a sudden I'm just going to like, it's just
going to go to, you know, yeah, it's going to shit.
Like it's just, it's not going to survive.
And then I got a business coach.Oh, no way.
I had to, I had to get somethingjust to help the situation that

(22:01):
I was in because I just couldn'tget that motivation and I didn't
know, you know, times have changed.
So for me it was like, OK, well,I used to work five years ago,
it's not going to work now. Word of mouth is my biggest form
of advertising. However, all the people who I've
exhausted over the time, they also like we're looking at life

(22:25):
like, no, we'd rather give in charity than to go do a photo
shoot so you know, people. You never really thought of it
in your world, like like. Yeah, well, that's really.
Your business structure, yeah, in that light to be.
Yes, and you know, inflation starts hitting too.
And you're like, you know, cost of living's gone up and Oh my
God, I'm a luxury. So can I just work timeline in

(22:45):
my mind, you would have probablywhen I was saying go to
divisions coach recently. Yes, within the last year.
How long have you had? We've stopped now, but she was
probably with me for about around the six months.
OK, Yeah. So the six months time we were
just start working through different structures like

(23:06):
marketing, something that I've never tapped into because I, you
know, you know what it's like inthe community, you use 1, you
know, one sister uses you, the entire generation uses you and
then her neighbour will use you and then the person who so you,
you don't, I don't need to go and put any Flyers in.
Yeah, 100%. So, you know, someone has a
baby, they post photos of it, and they love that work.

(23:27):
They're like, well, these baby photos are so pretty.
Yeah. I've been there.
I've, I've done all that. So for me it was like, Oh my
God. A different beast to tackle.
Yeah, 100%. You never expected.
Never expected. Can you give me a little bit of
your experience about? I don't want to cut the story
short, but I'm just, I'm curiousbecause I only know, I think two
other people that have ever had a business coach out of all like
industry peers that I know of. He told me your experience about

(23:50):
it, pros, cons, just for other business owners that are
listening because we have a lot of business owners that actually
listen to this right. Yeah, yeah, no, look, I I needed
something. I, I was like, it's either I'm
going to drown, like I said, I'm, I'm either going to lose
what I've worked so hard for or I need to find this like inner,
inner strength. And the biggest thing that I

(24:11):
learned from her is that she, she just kept reminding me about
what it's taken to get you to where you are right now.
And you're not just going to, you know, close the shop and
just go, this is it. This isn't it.
This is not what I won't came inhere for, to just not leave a

(24:32):
legacy behind for myself, for mykids.
You know, the the inner strengththat I've had throughout this
whole time to get me to where I am isn't just going to
deteriorate just because a little hurdles come in.
So for me, she started teaching me about even just making a
phone call. I think in the time you know

(24:54):
what it's like and you get so busy.
I'm a mom. I deal with so much different
things in my life that the last thing I want to do is take a
phone call. But it's like the most simplest
thing that, you know, people want to talk to a person and you
want to be relatable and you want to be, you know, it's not,
you know, with all the AI that'sgoing around at the moment.
I mean, like, how annoyed do we get when we try to call Telstra,

(25:14):
for instance? Yeah.
And then all these like press 1 and it's impressed and it's
like, I get it. So you know what?
That conversation last week witha friend, just I feel like they
were telling me a story and I was like, pick up the phone.
Yeah, pick up the phone, pick upthe phone, have the
conversation. Yes, cut the emails.
Cut. They just have the conversation.
Yeah, and I'm a talker and I waslike, you know what?
People just want to talk to me as you're like, people just want

(25:36):
to know, like just just simple, like.
So what did? OK, So what did the business
coach teach you exactly? Well, she basically taught.
Me was like, it sounds like it was like obviously coaching,
yeah, business coach. But like, did did she step into
like, business structures pickedup like, oh, you're doing a
mistake here. Things like fixing my pricings,
fixing the way I speak, even in my emails, using different

(25:58):
marketing methods, like emails, like the mass emails that I like
that get sent out. I've never done that before.
Yeah, she put me onto the programmes, taught me what to
say, not so much exactly what tosay, but like.
Yeah, prompts and stuff. Yeah.
Speaking in my own language in the way that I normally talk to
my clients. Yeah.
Putting that in down onto like, you know, concrete and sending

(26:19):
that out, making myself relatable to everybody again and
just say, hey, I'm here again. I'm not having gone anywhere.
And then even those phone calls,like when I was taking those
phone calls, I like, they were like so grateful and so thankful
that I was taking that time to talk to somebody.
So it was all those things that I was just like uninterested in
doing because I'm like, I just don't want to do that.

(26:41):
I've got too much happening. I don't want to do this, but
then once I've restarted doing it, I actually now if a client
sends me a message, send me yournumber.
Can I have, you know, let me let's have a chat.
So I feel like I'm getting that back again and it's making
that's. So good to hear.
Meshing all in again. Last question I asked about it,
expense versus the return, did you feel like it was worthwhile?

(27:01):
I naturally want to assume it's expensive to get a business
coach, right? This particular coach is
photography like specific, so she's brilliant.
She also is like, you know, systems, all that sort of stuff.
So she's got it all down packed.She knows what works for her and
she's helping all other photographers around as well.
So it wasn't a massive outlay, but it was also enough to go,

(27:25):
yes, this is what I need right now.
And even if I didn't have it, I'll go borrow for it to make
this work for me right now. So yeah, she was.
She was actually. Great.
That's that's really, really cool to know.
And anyone can reach out to me in the industry, whoever needs
someone, and I'll send. You her details so nice of you
Yeah, I want to go back a littlebit.
I know we had like a business coach tangent and like that

(27:47):
whole thing. But going back to the struggles
of your dad, did he did he end up having to close the business
or what was it? What was it like?
We got locked out OK business, home, cars, shit we were down to
like. Clean slate.
Clean slate. Damn, was a very hard slate at

(28:08):
the time. I was 12 and I find it so hard
to talk about this sometimes, but I, I just want people to
know that, you know, you just got to keep believing and keep
dreaming and don't let dreams ever stop because there are
times where I think I've, I've been very open about this to

(28:31):
certain people, but here I am opening up again.
There were times where we were living off nothing, like we were
waiting for parcels from, you know, the community to come feed
us. Sometimes, you know, we were
really down to nothing. There were times where I'd watch
my friends go on family holidaysand I'd have to go work.

(28:54):
So I started working at a very early age, both me and my
sisters, just to be able to helppay bills around the house to
bring groceries into the home. You know, my first jacket I ever
bought was from the urban store I think it was, it was a leather
jacket. And I remember it took me 6
months to pay for it because I was.

(29:14):
Like. $10.10 dollars like it layby that just went on extension
for like ever. But it was those moments of my
life back then that I've been able to shape me too, Yeah, You
know, appreciate everything thatI've worked hard for and
continue to work hard for up until this.
Day, as tough as every struggle can be and as tough as every

(29:36):
situation can be, I'm a true belief that there's a silver
lining. There's always a positive
teaching that you can take out of something.
Well, it's really hard to say and it feels kind of like cold
to kind of think of it that way because you know there's
suffering. All right.
Your dad lost his business, his livelihood.
The stress that would have put on you know you're both like
your mum and your dad would havebeen more astronomical than
maybe what you would have experienced about where parents

(29:58):
today. Would you imagine the thoughts
going through their head? And I take my heart to
everything and every day he still got up to make sure that
if I needed something that's beautiful, he will do whatever
it takes to make sure that I'm never without.
All of us are without. So, you know, we forget how much

(30:20):
our parents do. And sacrifice.
And sacrifice. And yeah, yeah.
And he continues to sacrifice. And he'll still bring that bread
to my house and the milk that I'm missing.
So he's, yeah. Parents are selfless.
Yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

(30:42):
That's that's really good for me.
Looking back at your younger self, you're right.
Yeah, I'm fine. You're good.
Yeah, I'm good. Looking back at younger Sandra,
what would you say to her today?Oh God, I'm just so proud of
her. I'm proud of who she is and how
far she's come and that she's never let anything stand in her

(31:05):
way. And yeah, that she's a super, a
superwoman for, for being where she is right now.
Awesome. Yeah.
That's very proud of her. That's beautiful.
Yeah. Let's talk photography.
I don't want to get you too emotional today.
Got to get back. We're going to go back to the
high right? Go for it, do you?

(31:25):
Remember the first time when youpicked up your camera or some
anything, just click, you're a teacher, you had your babies.
I know you picked it up after you had your kids.
You got married, had kids, and then.
So one of my best friends was pregnant at the time, and I
remember she gave birth and she's like, do you want to take
photos of my baby? And I had no idea what I was

(31:48):
doing. I was like, literally put this
baby on the bed and tried to find some light somewhere in the
house. But it was just that moment of
doing that that I was like, I think I need to do this.
And everybody in my circle at the time was like, you have to
do this, you have to do this. So I was like, OK, no problem.

(32:11):
So yeah, my husband was like, you want to do this?
I'm like, yeah, let's do this. So took me to JB Hi Fi at the
time. Bought me that 60 DI remember?
Why did we all start out with the 60D?
Honestly, what was what was it their marketing back then?
It must have been, Yeah. It was a pretty cool camera at
the time, came with two lenses and stuff like that.
So yeah, so we'd bought that andI actually started more in the

(32:36):
events before I even started in newborns, but that's what led me
to that. So I was at the time, I was a
few of my friends, we had started a little business called
Theresa Party and. I was a.
Photographer, one was a stylist and one was the liaison girl,
and we were going around doing, you know, setups.

(32:58):
Wow. Yeah, at parties and engagements
and all that sort of stuff. So just what, you know, half the
stuff that they were doing now, but we were doing that back then
and that's awesome. And that's how a lot of my
stuff. It's a good name.
Theresa Party, yeah, it started to become viral as well because
all of the vendors, you know what it's like.
Yeah. So back then it was even huger

(33:19):
than at what it is now in terms of, you know, viral.
The MID growth is way bigger. It's so much harder now.
Party ideas. I don't know if you've ever
heard of that. No.
Anyway, so she was quite huge inAmerica as a party Blogger.
OK, who would like, you know, share everybody's like, you
know, themed birthday parties orthemed, you know, whatever it
was events. And she shared some of our stuff

(33:42):
at the time. And then the the following just
started even growing more and more until we just, you know, we
just we, we got too busy in our lives.
So then that sort of like stopped and then I continued on
to just grow this business. So my Instagram page actually
started as a personal page before I even like became,

(34:05):
became a photography page. And then it just slowly started
shifting. And I used to just post
everything. You know, it's like back when we
first started, it was just like post a bit of my life, post a
bit of this, post a bit of that until I found the newborns.
And that's when everything changed for me.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I just, I took a few courseswith some photographers who came

(34:28):
from America at the time as well, and they did some
workshops and they obviously like it's like I said before,
where they teach you what they teach you or show you and
demonstrate. However, it all then comes down
to how you just put your spin oneverything and make it your own.
So at the time the Angertis thing was the thing and I aced

(34:48):
it at the time and. No idea what you're talking
about, but yeah, carry. On Yeah, the whole perfect baby
in a bucket with the perfect. Hand, Yeah, yeah, OK.
And you know, the perfect role and everything.
The wrapping. Full of the Cabbage patch shot.
The cabbage patch shots, so likeall of those, you know, the
potato sacks. And so I then became that person

(35:08):
who then started teaching it to other people and I started
running workshops. And you're like teaching like
how to actually like get to those poses and get.
The poses done. Because you do workshops,
workshops still to this. Day, right?
Yeah, actually going to New Zealand in October.
Oh, it's big. Queenstown and Auckland.
Yeah, yeah. That's so excited.
That's. Mad.
So yeah. And it just kind of, it just

(35:30):
blew up. It was incredible.
So it took me to places like India, Brazil, Bahrain,
Netherlands. It took me everywhere like I was
running some. To teach the workshops.
To teach the workshops and some like conferences and you know,
it was full on. I think I travelled in a span of

(35:51):
about four years, like I was on an aeroplane more than I was
here. So it's pretty cool, yeah.
OK, so we've talked pretty much I, I, I'm gathered that everyone
listening to this at this point knows exactly, not exactly, but
like gets the gets the picture. They know about you personally
and business, but how would you define success now?
Success is returning clients. Like for me to see that I'm

(36:15):
still getting my clients who have been with me on the journey
right from the time I had no idea what I was doing and found
my work beautiful back then. Yeah.
And still coming and paying me exactly what I need to be paid
at this time with no questions asked and saying to me, book us

(36:38):
in. That's success to me, to know
that the retention rate of the people who have followed me
right from the beginning are still here.
Yeah, that's enough for me to feel do.
You have a payment struggle whenit comes to like the growth of
the business. The growth like you know, price
obviously increases over time naturally.
Well, obviously now I've got thestudio, so my overheads are a

(37:00):
little bit different now and what I used to have as a profit
back for 12 years straight is now being re injected back into
the business. I have no problems with that.
I there are times where I'm like, oh, that money used to
just sit there and we used to goon holidays with it and
whatever. Yeah, However, you know you have
to. Grow, yeah, it's there's
different, there's different objectives and goals.

(37:21):
There's different, yeah, but. I'm wondering more about like
the do you ever struggle with iton a client perspective?
They're like, oh, never, OK, never not like are we paid this
much? But.
Never. OK, yeah, that's what I'm
saying. I feel like my.
Time. A lot of people.
Struggle with so much respect and honour for the work that I
produced. That's awesome.

(37:42):
So I've never had anyone who hasbeen a client from the beginning
who now will turn around and tell me.
But we paid this back five yearsago.
Yeah, I I just don't. Thank God.
I don't get those kind of people.
Become my way. Let's talk about expectation
versus reality. What's one thing that you wish
clients knew before stepping in front of camera ahead of time?

(38:06):
I think to just be themselves, like I feel like they do have
this idea. Well, OK, I wouldn't say that.
I would say maybe only 10% of myclients that I have that you're
talking about right now that will come in and have the whole
like they need to look like a doll because they see certain
things on my page. But they actually, they got

(38:29):
these mums don't like, I don't have mums who overdo it on my
page either. Like I I find that I try to tell
my clients and the mums to just be as natural as possible.
Don't go getting your makeup done, you know, do your own
makeup if you can do your own hair.
The more natural you guys make it, the more you guys are going
to remember these moments forever.
You don't want to look like somebody who you're not either.

(38:51):
So yeah, I definitely do tell them like, just be yourselves
and don't try to think that you're coming to pose.
I just want you to be mom and dad.
That's it. Be mom and dad.
Show me that love that you guys will show at home and what I'm
just going to capture that for. You do you think studio works
better or going to a client's house works better?
I have in every in every realm. So think put your mindset, the

(39:14):
final image, the experience, thethe authentic like is it more
authentic and do you lose authenticity in the studio like
that kind of. I don't think you lose
authenticity because I feel likeI still try to bring as much
emotion into my images as much as I can.
However, the studio, I mean the home surroundings can be so

(39:36):
challenging at times too, where I've gone to do some in home
studio in home sessions and the lighting is just such an issue.
Yeah, clutter is another issue and first time mums are already
so like chaotic in their own mind to try and get that
perfection in their home. I find that they just would

(39:56):
prefer to just come straight outof their house into a space
that's just calm. And done for that.
And then also not even have to worry about what they're going
to wear because ioffer the mum awardrobe in the studio too.
So they come in and everything'salready set.
Their babies are set, they're set.
All they have to do is just their husbands and you know,
it's all ready to go. So I feel like definitely look,

(40:17):
everything's got their pros and cons.
I, I, I love going to clients homes, but again, it just has to
be I'm not, I don't even look atfurnitures or any of that sort
of stuff. I just look for light.
So as long as there's light happy to come out, I'm happy to
do whatever you guys want me to do.
But because I can control my situation in the studio, it just

(40:39):
makes. You guarantee like kind of
better. Yeah, the outcome that I know
I'm being, I'm definitely able to achieve.
I get it. I just, I don't know why my mind
always goes to like sometimes it's nice to have that memory
there. Of course.
No, no, it's definitely. Family's all.
Sentimental being at home, I I, I encourage it all the time and
I'm happy to go out all the time.
How do you protect your creativeenergy as a photographer?

(41:01):
I do a lot of personal projects,so I, you can choose people that
I like. Sometimes I'll be just walking
in the street and I'll just walkup to them and say, hey, I'd
really like to do a shoot with you.
I I really do. That's exactly how it goes down
with me. So I'll see a cute little kid
that just inspires me as I'm walking and I look like a creep,

(41:22):
but I go up to the parents and I'm like, I really, really want
to shoot your child. They just look at me like,
what's wrong? I'm at the top.
So I give them the rundown and they're all more than happy to
come down. And you know, in exchange for
their time, I get to do whateverI want.
I feel like there's no pressure.I don't need to deliver a
gallery for someone and I'm ableto produce things that I love

(41:43):
so. Is that a tool you also use for
like a marketing? I'm assuming naturally it would
be like, you know, if you feel like it's getting mundane or
stale. Yep.
Does it actually work or is it awaste of time it?
Really does work because there'sways to do it.
It's not just I think about not just the photos, I think about
the videography that I'm gettingout of it.

(42:05):
There's all the little aspects that I know will just be
injected, whether it's through my emails that I'm sending out.
Sometimes I don't put everythingup that I always take, but I
choose where it's going to go. So yeah, the personal projects
for me are the most soul fulfilling ones for me.
Have you ever or like you've hada moment where you're still

(42:25):
learning 13 years on about yourself or about work or like,
what are specific moments that you're like, fuck, I wish I did
this earlier or like, I really like this, this way over time
that you can kind of pass on to the younger generation.
Yeah. Look, I always say just don't do
anything that you feel is just right because it has to be done
like I. What do you mean by that?

(42:45):
In the sense like when I starteddoing, I think we were talking
about this before about florals.OK, so I feel like there are
certain things that you do no matter what job you're in.
But when I started in photography and someone would
come and say to me, I really want to have florals done with,
you know, the baby. And I'm not a floral person.

(43:06):
I don't like florals. I'm, I would never put my child
in a bucket of flowers. Like, that's just something I
don't, I would never do. Yeah, I used to get asked to do
that. And I never, ever felt it.
Like, yes, I shot it, I producedit, I gave it to the client,
client loved it, but I just didn't feel it.
And I feel like there are times where you just have to put a

(43:27):
stand to things that you love that will make you love your job
more. So I just feel like, yeah, I
wish I took more of a stand on those sort of things in the
beginning and said to myself, no, like, no, I don't want to do
florals. Like I'm, I'm not going to do it
because it's not what I, I love.So.

(43:49):
And I feel like my, my style wasjust kind of like whatever's on
trend that was happening at the time to try and, you know, get
myself through back then the business.
Yeah. I mean, you know, businesses
work off trends and I get that. But I also think that sometimes
you just got to stick to what you love.
And I feel like no matter what, you'll find someone who's going

(44:10):
to love that, too. Yeah, yeah.
That's how I find. It's a double edged sword that I
feel like sometimes it's a business owner because you want
to say no. Yeah.
But then also sometimes saying no means.
No money. Yeah, yeah.
And I get. It it's hard, yeah.
Have you had clients or like let's talk about that flower
moment. I guess you could say which one?

(44:30):
The flower moment I like you like the obviously was it didn't
naturally just stop or were you did you put your foot down or
like are there moments like thatwhen you just like?
There was a moment, well, the moment that everything shift for
shifted for me was when COVID hit and I then found out I was
pregnant. And I just didn't imagine that

(44:50):
this baby that I'm going to haveis going to be in a bucket.
And I was like, no, I don't wanta bucket, I'm not putting him in
a bucket. And that's when I realised that.
This you stopped doing like. Yeah, yeah.
I stopped doing all of that and I don't know.
What? It's called, it's just called
posing like actual like structural posing.
And I was like, Nah, that's it. I'm done.

(45:10):
And I literally sold everything off, every prop I had, every
bucket I had, every Flaccati, whatever, the rugs, like in
every different colour, every wrap that was pink, blue,
whatever. And I was like, that's it, I'm
done. I'm going back to basics.
And I just want babies to look like babies.

(45:32):
Yeah. Be babies.
Yeah. And Noah was my muse at the
time. And I started documenting him.
And I was also very like, strict, like if the baby's over
2 weeks old, sorry, I'd go to somebody else.
Like I was very like, that's just the way we were trained
when I first started, that this is how it has to be.
I'm like, hold on a second. Babies are beautiful in every

(45:54):
stage, in every form. Yeah, we're.
Talking about this before recording.
Yeah, and I was like when I had Noah and it was COVID and I'm
like, I'm bored, nothing to do. So I started photographing Noah
every week like there was the kid has got a portfolio for
years. He hates me.
But it was like then that it really clicked to me that why am

(46:16):
I putting these restrictions on people to photograph their
babies at certain times when every stage of their life is so
beautiful? So that's when my shift happened
in my business and I got all these models in, started doing
what I wanted, free flowing, andI turned it into a lifestyle

(46:36):
photographer and. That's when.
That's awesome. That's when the first few
clients that I had booked in as soon as the lockdown opened were
my previous clients who have done these photos with.
And I'm like, listen, ABC's happening.
You either stick with me or I'llsend you to somebody who's got

(46:57):
that. Like I'm not going backwards.
That's it. I'm moving forward.
And they're like so. You put your foot down, I put.
My foot down and they were like,no, we trust you.
Those first five clients who hadbooked in were like incomplete,
all of their galleries. And that's when I was like, if
they loved it, everyone. Was so you didn't like publicly
like announce it? I did.

(47:18):
Oh, OK. You.
Did I did I, I rebranded, OK. I did everything like it was
just a full like that's it. I shifted over everything
changed. My mindset changed.
I'm a different person. Yeah, I'm going to change
everything now. Yeah, that's awesome.
This is how I want it to be doneand yeah, and look at it now.
As a dad of two, and we had bothfavours.
I told you this, but I'll say itback on the air because, you

(47:38):
know, it's not fair that we haveconversations, I mean, to the
podcast before recording. Yeah, We didn't do like fresh
out the worm shots because we just didn't feel like it was for
us. Like, just like, let's just
enjoy that. Time.
Let's just enjoy that time and like, professionally,
professionally. We'll get it when the kids are a
little bit more, you know, Yeah,just.

(47:58):
I feel like they can be expressive.
They can give you that little bit of a smile.
Their eyes say a different storythan just like when they're a
newborn, they're just like eating, sleeping.
But Nah, I'll. Let you have that, sorry.
Nah, I know. And it was the best decision
ever. Yeah.
The way his little hand, his little foot.
Yeah, more likely. You know, I just, I captured it.

(48:20):
You captured it. Yeah, OK, but you're a
photographer. Yeah, but you know.
I'll let you have that one, yeah.
But I friends may just put a tripod on.
Just enjoy it. Are you ruining I?
Just wanted I just wanted your reaction.
I just wanted your reaction. I.
Just I can't believe you just said that.
I just wanted you to flip the table.
OK, everybody just go get your phones and start taking your
own. I'm taking the piss.
No, but I'm glad you're doing naturally.

(48:40):
My whole point was that I think it is nicer to get it a little
bit more natural and for the, you know, yeah, for sure.
Like just you're never gonna getthat newborn.
Like we spoke about this like the newborn bubble lasts for
such a short time, you blink andit's gone like.
Yeah, 100%. I still, I know that I'm being a
bit raw now here, but I still remember like the pain in my

(49:01):
breasts when I fed my son, my oldest son, he's now 18, he's
driving his own car, he's livinghis life.
Like you don't want to miss those moments in the beginning
1000. For me, it's like just
irreplaceable. And I, I started offering the
add ONS of the video now too as well.
So like just the content of having the photos with the with

(49:23):
the video, it just hits differently just to see it and
hear the babies little all little sounds that they make and
you just can't like. Yeah, I feel like every stage of
like a child. Or every stage.
Like every month is like a wholewhole new being.
Yeah, so just document, no matter who you pick, just
document. Never regret it.
I do 2 shoots a year with my family, so I'll do one close to

(49:46):
the beginning of the year and one to the end of the year.
That's awesome. And I love watching their
transitions and how much they grow.
You think, Oh no, it's like in the same year.
What's gonna happen in the same year?
But it's you just don't understand how much they grow.
And especially like watching my boys become men.
And it happens like overnight like.
I say the days go long, but the years go quick.

(50:08):
It's it's just insane. So my biggest, my biggest, you
know, advice to every parent is just exist in your kids lives.
Like I'll have so many moms who come in and be like, no, no, no,
we don't want to be part of them.
Like it's a non negotiable, likeyou're part of it.
Like even if you're not face in it, your hands are going to be
in the photo. Your, you know, your body's
going to be caressing that childlike you need to exist in their

(50:31):
memories. And that's how I look at.
It that's an awesome thing to push your.
Clients. Oh, there's so many that like
really adamant about not being part of the shoot and then I've
given them no choice. And then the messages I receive
after is, you know, just so muchhappiness that I pushed for that
because they are their favouriteimages in the gallery, so.

(50:52):
Have there ever been stories or moments that just never leave
your mind? Oh my God, you're.
Part of so many family lives. So many, like, I think we're
just in the last six months, I have had so many parents who
have come in with like journeys of having, you know, 14 years,
17 years of trying to have a child and this baby.

(51:16):
Just miracle arrives with like failed attempts over and over of
IVF, of miscarriage after miscarriage and then, you know,
being told you're never going tohave children again.
And then these miracle children appear, and that's enough to
keep me in my job. Like seeing these parents and

(51:37):
fathers breaking down in front of me is, yeah, I'm so grateful
to the journeys that I get put on with this.
Yeah, there's a power to document men.
Yeah, there's a true power in it.
Very powerful. Is there one thing career wise
you're still chasing? I think I've achieved everything
I really wanted to achieve. However, I'm a person who
doesn't believe in complacency and I always believe that I I'm

(52:00):
never really there. I always feel like I still do
workshops with other photographers, I still go wanna
get inspired by somebody elses work.
I even love going to watch. I went for a very long time not
following any wedding photography because I just now I
got too busy with what I was doing.
And now I'm just inspired by it again.
Like I love. I look at yours, I look at an

(52:21):
emotion, I look at everyone and I'm like, Oh my God, I'd love to
do this all over again. Like I was like, babe, you want
to like, you know, go free, do our wedding photos again.
Like just, yeah, I, I just get inspired.
By when you're doing 2A year outof out of shoot into it, you
might as well kill me. Like it's over me.
But yeah, I, I, I get inspired by everything.
That's honestly everything I look at on.
Anything that you've learned that to let go of when it comes

(52:44):
to? It's perfection, perfectly
imperfect now that's it. Like I actually look at those
photos that I used to cull out of my gallery that were blurry
or just slightly out of focus. And now I add them.
I'm like, you know what? This there are certain times
where you look at some images and they just tell stories and
it doesn't have to be that perfectly, you know, technically

(53:06):
perfect image anymore. For me, I've let go of that
100%. I enjoy those more than the
actual perfect images. What about?
I'm very curious. I don't think I've ever asked
anyone this question, but what's1 moment in your business that
you'd love to relive again just to feel it?
I would call it so much in my business, but in I was, I was

(53:28):
asked to go to a conference in Brazil maybe just before I had
Noah So in 2019 and funny story,but I got robbed while I was in
the conference. So we were in the conference, we
had our backpack. I got asked to get up and take
some content photos with some ofthe other speakers who were

(53:50):
there. And my husband got up to take
some photos of us. And within seconds, our backpack
that had my laptop and my presentation, the backpack got
swapped over exactly same backpack except my my laptop
wasn't in there anymore. So.
Shit, sorry to hear. Yeah, it was crazy.

(54:10):
I went into full meltdown, told the people that I need to be out
of there. I was like, that's it, I can't
do this. Then I collected myself and I
said, whatever, Sandra, you got this.
You are, you know, you've been doing this for years.
You should be able to get, be able to get up there and do a 90
minute, you know, demonstration,slash talk, all of that.
So got up there, they ended up giving me, I had some stuff on

(54:34):
Google Drive, whatever that I was able to like, you know,
download and, and try to put something together.
And I remember walking out there, an auditorium full of
people, like I'm talking over like 506 hundred people all
there waiting for this demonstration to come out.
And I got out there, told them what had happened to me.

(54:55):
And I was like, OK, we're going to start this off with
positivity. So I put on Justin that can't
can't stop the Feeling song. And I had my full like Ellen
moment, walked in through the crowd.
I've it's all, it's somewhere onmy foot.
But walked through the crowd. The whole crowd was dancing.

(55:15):
It was just such a moment. I'd love to do that all over
again. That's an awesome thing to
relive because I was like waiting to hear the moment of
like, what to relive because I'mlike, we wanna relive being.
Yeah, your backpack stolen. Yeah.
And it was like a moment that I turned from, like, real shitty,
Yeah, to just, like, let go of it.
And the presentation was just incredible.
And yeah, it was, it was a moment where I was like, yeah,

(55:37):
I've got this, man. Like, you know what?
Oh shit, went to. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
To whatever, but I'm like, I'm I've got this, yeah, that's
crazy. And that was a moment where I
was like, you know, nothing's gonna stop me no matter what.
I. Feel like resilience is in your
DNA, like understanding your story now, like what your
parents went through. Yeah.
And here you are. I don't know, struggle of
struggle, Resilience. That's it.

(55:59):
I, I, I'm gonna find a way. I will find a way to to it's
come out on the other side. Yeah, it's awesome.
Do you reckon Dad taught you that?
100%, yeah, yeah, 100% like. I shouldn't discredit your mom
or send mom. No, both of them, like they've,
they've always been like. But even when we were in those
moments, there was always such amoment, like moments of

(56:22):
humbleness about no matter what we were going through that, that
that humbleness was what got us through to the other side that.
Yeah, OK, you're in that same tracksuit for like a year, like,
you know, yeah. So what?
One day you'll have 10 track suits, you know.
And that moment did come. They're build different compared
to us these days, right? Our parents.
Yeah, I think so. We're it's so much tougher they.

(56:44):
Came here with with nothing. So I think every little thing
that they did get was going to be better than what they
originally had. So yeah.
Is there anything that you've never said out loud that you'd
want people to know? Oh, there's a lot of things that
people oh. God, MM.
So yours. You wanted to be on a stage.

(57:05):
Who's your stage? Oh.
My God, in relation to just anything.
Sandra, take the floor. Far out now, this one's a hard
one. One, I hate to play games.
Oh, I just wish people would be just more kinder to each other.
I feel like there is so much people who are ready to like,

(57:26):
make you feel like shit before they make you feel happy and
compliment you on just the little simple things like.
And I would say a lot of it comes from the people who are
within you, like within your circle, people who are meant to
be the people for you. Yet it takes such effort to just

(57:46):
make you feel good about either yourself or your business or a
milestone or whatever it is. It feels like that you have to
hear it from everybody else before you hear it from the
people that you want to hear it from.
And that for me is like, just say it, man.
Like, just say it. Why is it so hard?
Just say it. Be kind.

(58:07):
It's not going to, like, hurt you.
And I'm, yeah, I'm hoping these people just kind of get it.
Well it takes you to that momentof thought like is it work
related? Just life related in general.
I think I, I think I've learned a lot of things along obviously,
maybe in the last two years thatpeople aren't always what they

(58:27):
seem to be. And I, I really am.
If anyone who knows me or has been around me from the time
they've opened their eyes and asa child, people just, I've been
the same person all the time. I think life has changed me to
just be a bit more stronger, whereas I've always let things

(58:49):
go. I've always been the person who
just like, you know, just whatever, let it be.
But now I'm not going to tolerate that anymore.
Like I, I think I'm at a point now where I feel, I don't know
whether it's age. I was just saying age kind of
makes you really realise that I just won't take it anymore.
Yeah, yeah. You're going to step on me, hurt

(59:11):
me, not be kind to me, Then I'm ready to open that door very
wide and let you out. I love that, yeah.
What's one thing that you'd wantto tell your boys or your boys
to learn from you? I guess it's the second part's
probably a little bit better. I think she.

(59:32):
Was a Title I. Constantly say this to them all
the time. Your mother is the epitome of
what hard work is and continues to be.
Nothing is ever going to come toyou unless you actually put
yourself out there. And I've been holding their hand

(59:52):
a lot, especially these last couple of years now to guide
them, to show them to be that person for them in terms of.
You know who to speak to, how tospeak to, when to speak to.
Don't lose an opportunity like the opportunities there all the
time, but make sure you guys jump on to that opportunity

(01:00:14):
because you don't get them all the time.
And I feel like I've, I'm tryingto teach them entrepreneurship
as much as I can because, you know, do we all want to work for
people all our lives? And I've learnt that working for
people's not going to get you anywhere.
I did it for a, a, you know, a big chunk of my life, hated

(01:00:34):
every moment of my life. The minute I took the chance on
myself and believed in what I want and what I want to do and
my skill set, that's when I knewthat, you know, Sky's the limit.
So sick. I love.
That, yeah. So I'm like, you know, there's
such a there's at such a young age, but it proved to me that

(01:00:54):
the amount of speaking that I'vebeen doing with them over the
last couple of years. My oldest son, the minute he
finished his HSE, he was talkingso much about his car, detailing
that he wants to do that. The exam was over the next day,
his logo had been finished, he had opened up an Instagram
account, he had posted about it,he had done a few videos of so

(01:01:17):
it just. Shows me some.
Give your son a plug man. There's people listening to
plugging. Him all the time.
I'm so proud of who and what he's doing right now.
Nothing is hard for him. Nothing.
And I'm trying to instil this inthe other two as well, but the
first kid is watching, he's beenwatching me since he was like,
you know, 6 'cause I started when Isaac was 2 1/2, Woody was,

(01:01:39):
was about 5 and a half six. And I feel like he's watched
every step of the way. What it's taken to get the
business to where it is right now.
And continuing. I, I don't stop the hustle.
My hustle is a never ending hustle.
So I feel like he's learnt that along well.
The both of them have learnt that and they both opened up
little businesses on the side ofwhich.

(01:02:00):
Hotels. So, you know, we're getting,
we're, we're, we're teaching them the ways.
The answer might still be the same, but I always like to put
this perspective. Double the ages that they are
now, Yeah. Has the message changed?
No. No.
No. Is there anything else you'd
want to tell them? Like this was a time capsule and
they were to double their ages in your mind?
And if there's if there's if they were to watch that, just to

(01:02:20):
watch their mum speak again in 2025.
I just feel like just don't everstop.
Like there's no stoppage. Like if you have the dreams to
like, for instance, the my older1, he wants to own a Corvette
now, OK, that's that's his, that's it.
That's his final goal now that he wants to achieve.
But how are you going to achievethat?

(01:02:42):
Do you think that just by working, you know, just average
mediocre, like you're not, you need to be, you need to be on
the, you know, tongue of everyone around you.
Like everyone needs to know who you are.
And I feel like I've given that them, I've given that to them
with the fact that I always say to them, don't think you can get

(01:03:03):
away with anything because everyone knows who your mom is
now. So I use that against them all
the time. I've had them on my social media
since they were little kids. And till this day, they know my
kids before they know me. So it's been a bit of a shit
show for them because they can'tlike, step out of line.
But I didn't realise what I was doing back in the day.
But now it's like, yes, this is perfect.

(01:03:26):
But yeah, like I always say to them, like just never stop.
It's like don't ever let there be that, that, you know, you
just got to keep going. Just.
Got to keep. Love that.
Yeah. I'm gonna grab these cards that
I forgot to put on the table. Excuse me?
I know you've watched the episode, so you know what's
coming. I've forgotten.
You forgot it. I forgot it.
Wow, Sandra. OK everyone, grab your iPhones
and take. That's how it.

(01:03:47):
Feels. Oh, these ones OK, yeah.
Daniel gets my joke. All right.
You better get a good one, all right.
Feel like I need to go through these and take out the ones that
I don't like but you know. You probably should.
I know I. Should.
All right. Read it out loud if you don't
mind. Oh no, I can't do this one.

(01:04:08):
Can you read it out loud? So the question is.
If you could get rid of 1 memory, which one would it be?
You. Didn't need to answer it, you
don't answer it. No, this one is like, there's
too many bad memories, so I'm gonna like OK, next one.

(01:04:30):
Do you regret any of the decisions that you've made?
I have no regrets in my life, soI feel like every look, I
wouldn't call it a regret. I just wish that I would have
started this journey in photography a lot.
Like when I say I love my job, Idon't just love it, I'm actually

(01:04:54):
in love with what I do. Like it's very hard to get to
that point in a career where youhave invested so much of your
mind, body and soul into something that it, it really is
and it defines who I am. I love it.
It speaks so many different languages with me.

(01:05:14):
So my, I wouldn't call it a regret.
I just wish that I was heard at the time of when I wanted to do
it, that I would have learnt back on film in dark rooms,
things that I always wanted to learn but I never got the chance
to because there was that. What's photography going to give

(01:05:35):
you, you know? So I don't call it a regret.
I feel like this is something that I would have loved to start
the journey a lot earlier in my life because I don't.
Sense that would have never given me.
You've had this whole big opening about pushing your
son's. Yeah.
Is it coming from that? That's what it is because I feel
like if you like I knew I loved this from.

(01:05:57):
Such spunted. Yeah.
And I was like, had I been giventhat opportunity, I always think
about the what if. So my what if would have been I
could have been producing moviesmaybe, you know, gone overseas,
you know, even like National Geographic.
Like I always loved that whole aspect of like nature and like I

(01:06:19):
always think about these things,like could I have had those
opportunities, you know, at the time that but then I also
believed that, you know, I'm a person of faith.
So everything that happened in my life, the journey that it
took me led me to this. As well.
I was actually going to wait foryou to finish speaking to say

(01:06:40):
that. Like, don't you feel like that?
You know, it's always easy, easyto say that because you with
hindsight, you're like, oh, you know, I would have been so much
younger. I would have been single.
I would have been, there's so much possibilities, right?
But then one that if you had that opportunity.
Then I may have. Never.
And I could have had it and thenjust like never had gone.
Single. No.
Kids No. Do you know what?
Yeah. Or like, even like, not do as

(01:07:01):
good as what you did with the wisdom and life experience you
have. Exactly.
You know, yeah, I definitely think that.
And we could still have the opportunity.
You never know, you know? Yeah.
You work with kids. Why can't you shoot an A leopard
in the in the wild? Yeah, I feel like, yeah, there's
just those moments where I know that everything that I've been
through, every experience that I've had, every educational

(01:07:25):
journey that I've taken has led me to this moment.
And, you know, not to not to diswhat I do, but I did to some
people. It's still like, oh, she's just
a photographer. Yeah.
But you know what? I'll let that.
I'll let them have that. And I know that what it's given
me is more than I've ever wantedin my life.

(01:07:47):
So. That's a beautiful message and
I. Yeah, I'm really happy with
every twist and turn that it's taken to get me here.
That is such a beautiful message.
Yeah, well, Sandra, it's been sogood to have you on and I.
Love being on, thanks. Thanks for giving us your time.
Thank you so much. And it's been great to get to
know you. I know what a first hangout I.
Know I can't see you again.