Another Small Town Murder

This episode covers the murder of Paige Doherty.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Laura and Angel and this is Craig Divers.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, everybody, Welcome to today's Patreon episode. Everyone, So, are
you ready just to get stuck in air? What's it
called a small town murder? We're in the UK, let's
dive in, let's dive in. So Page docker A was
born on the eighteenth of April two thousand. She lived

(00:40):
in Whitecrook, Clydebank, Glasgow, Scotland.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
That's well, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
We're in Scotland. So in twenty sixteen, she was fifteen.
She was popular and fun loving teenager. She lived with
her mum, Pamela, and her stepdad Andrew, and three siblings.
She was described as bubbly, helpful and popular. She was
a typical teenager. She liked to go out with their friends,
should be on her phone all the time, and she

(01:09):
loved the camera. Her cousin said that if there was
a camera about, Page would be there pouting constantly. So
on the Friday, the eighteenth of March twenty sixteen, Page
stayed over at her best friend Lauren's house and they
both got up early to go at their Saturday jobs.
So they were still at school during the week and
both of them had jobs on Saturday. Yeah, so Lauren

(01:34):
she was still getting ready, but Paige was ready to go.
So Lauren's moment had made her a pat lunch, so
she got that. Gave Lauren a cuddle as she left
the house. So usually, as there were typical teenagers, there
were be in contact throughout the day, like on social
media and text just.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Because sort of back was the forwards.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yes, but Saturday went on, Lauren she started to get
started to get a bit worried because she hadn't heard
from Page. And I said, it was it was just
so unusual that Lauren even phoned, and she phoned her mom,
her mom, and well I don't know if she phoned
her particular lot, she was just on the phone in

(02:17):
her mom Anyway, she mentioned how weird it was that
she'ld you know that Page hadn't been in contact. So
she text Page's mom, Pama, asking if she had heard
from her, but Pama said no, you know, she'd probably
just been busy at work and hairdressers, you know, so
she can't be on her phone all the time obviously

(02:38):
day Yeah, I mean, I mean, she said, usually they
would be in contact during the day, but it can't
be that constant because obviously she's going to be doing
whatever she does in the hair dressers, like washing hair
and yeah, but she hadn't heard from her at all.
But as I said, Pama just said that she was
probably just busy, so and and Pamela her mum. She

(03:04):
just thought maybe Paige didn't have her charger with her
and maybe her phone had had ran out or something
like that. And she said that to Lauren as well,
you know, she's like Mamber, she just doesn't have her charger.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
And Lauren was like, oh, you're right, maybe she left
her charger at my house, you know, so it's right, okay, then.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, there could be an obvious explanation.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, but by six pm, Page hadn't returned home from
her job at the hairdressers. But still her parents weren't
too concerned. Her stepdad had already decided that she was
grounded when she did get home, like he just assumed
that she'd gone off somewhere that work without telling them so,
and it was like, no, you know, that's not okay, Like,
if you're going to go off after work, then at

(03:43):
least just said a text to him.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
And let us know.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
So he was like he was kind of more right,
she's grounded, you know, rather than you know, they still
didn't think that anything.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
I think in most cases, you don't think something bad's
gonna happen. It's just not like it could be just
deciding to go somewhere, or the phone planeted battery, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, yeah, of course, and I said, like, she's a teenager,
you know, and yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
There's plenty of times when you know, when my kids
we were teenagers, there was plenty of times I didn't
know where they were and they hadn't text me to
say they were going to be late or whatever, so
they'd get a bulk and when they got home. But
you know, as more time went by, pages friends were
getting more and more worried, so they started posting on
social media to see if anyone knew where Shu was.

(04:27):
One of our one of our friends had like center
a text which said where are you Paige?

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Get home?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
And the text message was actually read, but it was
never answered, And that was so out of character because
if Paige read a text, she always replies straight away
same yes, because I just think it's read, not to.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Try to unless I've been distracted.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, well I mean, like sometimes you can't help it,
but you know, I.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
Hate that, like you that you just leave your phone open. Yeah,
it's like red red, red, red red, but you're not
You're looking at your phone. You're not there.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
So is the evening wre on With no contact from Page.
Pama or Mum eventually found out from Page's boyfriend that
Page hadn't even turned up to work. The owner of
the salon said that they didn't even really notice till
about lunchtime that she hadn't been in, you know, and
from that, I'm just a shaman Saturday and a salon.
It must be really busy and nobody sort of really

(05:24):
paid attention, you know, and then it's like, oh, wait
a minute, like where's Page. Yeah, and they had tried
phoning her and sending our messages, but they hadn't got
a reply.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
So Pama, she.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Said, as soon as she found out that the page
hadn't turned out her work, she knew it was like
write something's definitely sort of character for our page. Hated
letting people down, and she wouldn't just not show up.
That's just she would never do that. So Pama phoned
the place. So nothing to indicate a crime had taken place,
police logged the cause of missing person's case. So police

(06:01):
said that there are over eighty people per day missing
in Scotland and roughly a third of that will be
under sixteens, so that's quite a lot.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
So it's so basically what they're shame.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
For that is it's quite common for teenagers to be
missing and out of contact with the family, and nothing
un towards happened, yeah to basic you know, and there
wasn't anything which struck the place as being particularly particularly
unusual in relation to Page being missing. You know.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, they just thought we'd probably just another teen just yeah,
you know, she's gone off somewhere, just not being in contact.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
She'll turn up soon, yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
So as the day drew to an end, those closest
to Page were asking, like, how could a fifteen year
old girl just disappear without a trace on the way
to saturday job.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
So, because that's.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
She that's where she was headed, because we know that
from her staying at her friend's house.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, that's where she was, That's where she was going,
that's you know, she left her friends said bye, I'm
going to work.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, and then that was nothing.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
So The following day, Pages family put out an appeal
for any information to her whereabouts. The tight knit community,
they all rally drowned and like you know, started going
out looking for her, and they put those posts all
over social media. And I actually remember sharing a post
on Facebook and seeing Page on the news.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, So we did our bit by share in yes,
and our friends put missing posters all around the area,
and they were getting on buses and asking drivers if
they had seen her, because she would have been getting
the bus to work.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
I should have mentioned that, but she was just nowhere
to be found.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
So, as I said before, Pama knew that something had
happened to Page straight away, and she she even asked
the police, when when are you going to start searching
ditches for a body?

Speaker 3 (07:48):
She knew, Yeah, she knew her daughter.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
She knew that she would come home if she could,
and she obviously couldn't. But the police told her that
they still they had no believe that her daughter had
come to any harm, because well, it's true, she's just
nobody's heard from her, but there was nothing to indicate
the evidence. Yeah, and nine times out of ten missing
teen's come home. She told them that she knew that

(08:13):
Page wasn't coming home, so they needed to look for
a body.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah, that's I mean, she shouts, the knew daughter and
she just knew that.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
She just knew that something to happened to her, and
as she'd motherly instinct. So more time passed and everyone
was just getting more and more worried, and the police
did start to get more concerned because she wasn't just
not in touch where her family, she wasn't in touch
where their friends either, And as someone who was always
on social media and always in contact with people, it
was it was strange that she had just gone completely silent.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (08:44):
That's why I think that you know, the place they
need to take notice of, like the family and friends,
of what they're saying about a person, because they know
that person best. So if she's not prone to doing
all these things, then what they're saying is probably right
that you know something has happened to her.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Well, they know what's what's what?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
You know, if it's out of character for somebody, they
know that.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
And I think it's very telling, especially with teenagers, that
they're not in contact with their friends. I mean, you
know what it's like to be a teenager, you don't
always get on with your parents. You don't tell your
parents everything, well maybe something do. I certainly didn't, so
I would if I might, you know, just go off somewhere.
But I would still be in contact with my friends,

(09:26):
like you just sometimes you just that's just the way
things are sometimes, you know, that's just teens, you know,
as I said, like, that's just the way they are.
And but for a team not to be in contact
who is always in contact with their friends, then that's
pretty telling to me. So Blase started doing house to
house inquiries to retrace pages last moments from the morning

(09:49):
that she went missing. So on the Sunday morning, officers
visited several local businesses. So basically from what I can
see from a like on YouTube and that, like, so
she was a walk to work, and there's like a
sort of row of shops, but they're sort of set

(10:09):
back from the pavement, so yeah, they're quite the big payment.
And I said, there's a row of shops next to
each other, so she'd have to walk past those shops
to get to the bus stop. So there was an
owner of a newsagent's and he told them that he
had seen page on the Saturday morning, she'd been walking
past eight point fifteen and he shouted our right, Page,

(10:32):
and she shouted back, yeah, I'm a right, I'll see
you later on because obviously they said it's a small
net community, you.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Know, they'll know each other. And then she went into
the nearby Delhi.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
So the deli was it was called Delicious Delhi and
John Leatham was the owner. So he told officers that
Page was a regular customer and she had popped in
and gets something from her Sorry, Yeah, she was a regular,
and she popped in to get something for her breakfast
on that Saturday morning as normal, that's what she usually did.

(11:04):
She popped in for a breakfast and then went and
got the bus to go to work. So you know,
that was the same as any other Saturday and Page
and Lauren and they also got the bus to school,
so they would pop in like to the Daly during
the week for breakfast. So like, you know, he was
well known to Page, and so he knew for definite
that was definitely Paige, you know, like because because he knew,

(11:27):
so that was the sort of last positive sight and Rover.
So now that they'd pinpointed Page at the local shops.
On the Saturday morning, police turned an attention to the
bus route which she would have taken to work. They
interviewed the bus driver and everyone who was on the
bus that Page was supposed to be taken, but nobody
had seen her. She hadn't gotten that bus, and by

(11:49):
Monday there'd been no positive sightings and people were getting
desperate and priority priorities shift. A Major Incidant Room was
established at Clydebank Police Station, as by that time Page
was a high risk missing person, so while it was
still a missing person's case, police now had to consider
the possibility that if Page was found, she might not

(12:10):
be alive, so officers were dispatched to the family home
to take statements and to search the house. But about
quarter to one in the afternoon, while police were searching
the house elsewhere, a body was found in an area
just off Great Western Road. The body of what they

(12:30):
first thought was a young woman about twenty years old,
was lying on her back with her arms crossed over
her chest, and there had been some effort to try
and conceal her. But it was just like a bit
of grash. It was like basically out the side of
a road. It sounded like quite a busy road, because
Great Western road sounds like a yeah, and you know
like if you sort of look off to the side

(12:52):
of the road and maybe see trees and bushes and
things like that, it's sort of like that area. So
she tried there had been a bit ever to try
and conceal her sort of like that, but not really much.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
So, while the body was still at the crime scene
for forensic scientists were called into uncovered clues as to
the identity of the victim, how she died, who could
be responsible. So Dr Nave Stevenson said that this was
a young girl, not a twenty year old like the
first thought. She was very pretty and she had amongst
the worst injuries she'd ever seen. So she had very

(13:26):
serious injuries to her neck and her upper body. She
had a lot of blood staining on her body and
very little blood staining around her body. So that suggested
that she wasn't attacked in that area, should be killed
somewhere else, and that's just where she should have been taken.
So Page's family were informed, but at this point they
still didn't know if it was Paige or if it

(13:46):
was someone else. Her friends saw news articles on Facebook.
But because they said the news article said it was
a young woman, not a girl, no one thought it
was Paige, Like as I said, like they thought if
it was Page, then she would have been described as
a young girl because you know, she was only fifteen.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
But then it's hard sometimes to judge ages. Yeah, I know,
so she might have looked older than an actually age.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, and I mean like a with a body and
that's obviously been damage and all the wounds and the
bloods and all that kind of stuff, it would be
hard to can see how old somebody was. But yeah,
they you know, they expected we described as a young girl.
So it's like, no, that's a young woman, you know,
somebody else. But Pages parents were asked to go to

(14:32):
the Morgan they identified the body as as Pages.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
Well imagine, like I thought, wonder how it must feel
to go to identify a body actually isn't like.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I know, because like you would feel relief that it
wasn't your child or whatever, but then you'd be like, well,
where is my child because my child's still missing, And
then you would feel guilty as well, because you'd be relieved,
but I think you'd be feeling guilty that that's somebody
else's child.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
Or quite a horrific experience to have to go to
anybody anyway.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
But yeah, yeah, I mean I really hope I would
never have to have to do that, because yeah, I
mean it would I think it would be it would
be her, her and a horrific experience.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
What, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
So the close knit community were in shock because there
was a child killer amongst them, and they were terrified
because this murderer was on the looks. So straight Away
Place went to the media. I asked to ask them,
I don't know what's wrong to a straight Away Place
went to the media to ask the public for help.
And the hunt was on to find this person obviously

(15:44):
as soon as possible. So the trouble was, at first
there were absolutely no suspects, like none at all, No
one knew who would have done this to a fifteen
year old child, and like the streets in the community
were bare because people were so scared.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, because they didn't know who the killer was.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because I said, it was a small community, yeah, a
tight knit community, and they're like.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
It's somebody in our community.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yet something in our.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Community, So you know, they were scared and they didn't
know who the killer was or like if they would
strike again, So they were probably scared to let their
children out.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
And yeah, not they found the person.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
They look I mean, they looked into the pages background
and there was just nothing to indicate any motive, you know,
like anybody who had a grudge against her or you know,
or any underlying issue that would make her a target.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
There was just nothing.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
So when police received the result of the postmartem, it
revealed details of a frantic attack which pointed towards an
extremely violent and callous killer. There were sixty one stab
wounds to Page's body. Forty three of them were to
the head and neck area, and the significant injury to
our body was to the left hand side of our neck.

(17:00):
And beyond the stab wounds they were eighty five cuts
made by a slashing movement. So yeah, I mean that's yeah,
I mean, like sixty one stab wounds and eighty five slashing. Yeah,
that's absolutely horrendous. That's really violent, that's brutal. So with

(17:21):
no solid lead, so the police went back to the
place where she was last sighted and re examined statements
from key witness John Leatham, who had served Page at
the deli on Saturday morning before she left to get
the bus to work, and they also re examined CCTV
footage of the shops to establish pages next movements. But
what they realized was that John Latham had lied. So

(17:43):
I'm not sure how they missed it the first time
they checked the CCTV. I don't know if they maybe
just didn't look long enough. I mean maybe when the
first time they checked the CCTV, they were just looking
at sort of when she first appeared, like they've seen
her walking past, but maybe they didn't check further on.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Maybe we think they.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Would want to see where what roots she went or
what directions she went.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
I really don't know because on the on CCTV you
can actually watch it on YouTube, so you see Page
enter the deli, but you don't see her coming back out.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
So that's what I mean, like.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Surely they wouldn't noticed that before some I really don't
know that.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
You think that they go, right, right, she went in there, great,
but then you think, well, we don't know what's happened
to her after that? So where, like CCTV, where has
she went? Because that gives us a chance to see
what roots's baby.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Went, unless sorry just got you off there, Unless they didn't.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Maybe maybe I've kind of not read it properly.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
And when I said they've re examined CCTV CCTV footage,
maybe they hadn't examined that well yet.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Maybe they'd examined other CCTV. I don't know. I don't know.
There's no point in trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Basically, they looked at the CCTV and they saw the
page didn't come back out of the deli. And what
you do see is a while what.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
What's wrong with me?

Speaker 4 (19:14):
The day?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
What you do see is a while later you see
John Lathan running from the shop and soon after returned
to the shop with his car. Then you see him
carrying something out to his car and put it in
the book, which police assumed was Paige's body. So thirty
one year old John Lathum was arrested and the whole

(19:38):
community was in shock. He had always seemed like you
were really friendly. He spoke to everyone.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Who came out the deli. He was married, he had
a child.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
He you know, he would always see hell lot of
people when he was out and about, because you know,
everybody knew him. You knew everybody else, you know, you
know the local shop owners and stuff. It's you know,
especially at deli because there you go. I mean that
is you said, like you know Page and Lauren, they
would go in and get their breakfast before they went school.
Page would go and get a breats more she went
to work. You know, people need food. It's going for

(20:10):
the lunch.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
A deli is a good place to go because it's
always fresh and not like those not not like you
know in the supermarkets you get prepackaged stuff and all
that's probably freshly made.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
So he'd opened the Delicious Deli in twenty thirteen, and
he'd moved to a flat nearby in twenty fifteen with
his new wife and baby. It was a well respected
business man. He had built the deli up from nothing
and done it's done really well with it. So he
was a loving dad and husband and it was hard
working and a big part of the close knit community.

(20:43):
You know, get company. Do you know what I found
about this is sorry just to go. We're sitting on
a bed and there's a new mattress on it that the.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Mattres seems to go down at the end. If you
sit at that end, it sort of like sinks down,
but at this end it's fine, it comes up side. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
So in custody, John Luthum maintained his innocence and I
watched some footage of the police interview and he was
adamant that they would find no forensic evidence linking him
to Page as murder and when and when asked if
he did kill Page, he said no comment. So the
forensics team were called into the Deli. They got warrants

(21:24):
for his flat around the corner and his car as
well as well as for the Deli. So doctor Nave Stevenson,
who had examined Page's body at the scene, also examined
the Delhi. She first looked for any obvious bloodstaining in
the kitchen area and she didn't see any. She then
went into the office area and there was no obvious
bloodstain in there either. If there had been an assault

(21:46):
in that room, she would have expected to find something,
but everyone was clean, nate, and tidy and just didn't
look like there had been any kind of disturbance there. So,
with no sign of a crime having taken place inside
the Delhi, the police where Baffld so they did question
if Page was still alive when she was taken from

(22:06):
the shop and being murdered elsewhere.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Right, Okay, so I'm still thinking that he took her
from the shop.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
But where was she actually murdered? But then compelling new
evidence came to light. John Leatham's shop owner neighbor came forward,
came forward with.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Let's speak against that.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I'm really sorry everybody, Like I'm probably really annoying you
by now, I do apologize. So yeah, so this shop
owner neighbor came forward with new information which appeared to
support the police theory that Page had been killed in
the shop. So I think this was the man who
owned the news agents. But it was like not just

(22:52):
a newsagents. It's like a you know, one of those
shops that has sort of a bit of everything, No,
like a like a sort of grocery bit as well,
like maybe like a day to day you know how
we got the day to day shop that's got like
you can buy bits and pieces for your who, she
can get your lottery ticket, you can get your the
news agents. Like I think it was like a shot

(23:12):
like that, And I'm assuming that he only came forward
after John had been arrested because at the time when
what I'm about to tell you, when it happened, he
would never thought that John was the murder because I said,
like he was a great guy.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
He was blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
But he said that he had definitely seen Page on
Saturday morning. He described what she was wearing, so place
knew that it was heard that he had seen. As
I said before, they'd said hello to each other, and
he saw her going into the deli. Within five minutes
of her going into the deli, the shut of the
deli shutters were down right Then later on at half
past nine, because that was I think that's court past day,

(23:53):
he said that he'd seen it. So but later on
at half past nine, he was outside the shop talking
to a lad, a lady from the hairdresser's next door,
and they both saw John Lathan come.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Out of the deli.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
And they asked what he had on his nose, and
the hairdresser was like, is that blood on your nose?
And John says, oh, yeah, you know, I've just had
a nose bleed, and then went back into the deli
and the o they just went back into their shops
and didn't think anything of it, yeah, and I said, like.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know that's true, you wouldn't miss it together.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And then just after ten am, John went into the
news agent, which, as I said before, it must be
one of these bigger ones. It sells food and house
household stuff as well, and he bought he bought black
bin bags, bleach and antibacterial wipes.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, exactly, which again you ta could take a murderer aside.
You could be thinking he's just buying it because he
runs a deli, so yeah, clean. At the time, they
didn't know anything had happened to Page. I just thought
that's what it was.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, I was just buying some cleaning stuff because obviously,
you know you need to keep it clean. Absolutely, So
with this information, place re examined, re examined the deli,
so obviously, like the first time they looked at it,
I think they were just sort of they didn't do
the normal, like the proper look. They were kind of
just sort of looking about and didn't find anything. But

(25:16):
this time, like they lifted the floorboards, there was blood
staining found between the floorboards, there was some blood staining
on a small oven, and also between the.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Fridge and freezer.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
There have been a lot more blood in the area,
but it had been cleaned up. The illumino must have
done that yet, so from Dr Stevenson's description of the
blood at the scene, they could definitely say now that yes,
this was the murder scene and this this is where
Page died.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
And likely to be the guy.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
But yeah, so the police had they had their man,
they had their man yet, and they had the evidence.
But what they didn't have was a motive because you know,
as we've said before, like Page just didn't have any enemies.
There was nobody that seemed to.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Well that seems crazy because i mean, you know, I'm
thinking myself, I went into like a deli. I go
in and I'd ask for what I want and then
the person would serve me get it, and I'd go,
I don't understand what.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know, we had a bit of small top because
they were serving you. But what what How did that
cross that line and then become a murder and not
even just a murder, And it's such a brutal murder.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
That it was as if somebody was really angry.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
It was you know, like like I mean, I said,
how would you get that angry? I mean, I'm hoping.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
We'll get we will get his version of events. But
you know, yeah, I mean that's it.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
You're not You're not going to get any work that.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Unfortunately, So at the police station, an officer said, quote,
I'm going to charge you, John lythan of Delicious Deli
that you did repeatedly attack, strike and stab the deceased
to the face, neck and arms, and you did murder her.
Do you understand the charges? What she said?

Speaker 3 (27:01):
He did.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
And then he was asked then asked if he had
anything to say, and he just said no. So, however,
when John appeared in court, he finally gave a glimpse
into what had driven.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Him to kill.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
So it was one of the first times that he
had appeared in court since he had been arrested. It
was completely intended that he would go to trial, so
it was a complete shock that he actually played guilty
at that hearing. So anyway, so his account of that
Saturday morning, remember his account, because we don't have the
other person's account because you know, they murdered her. So

(27:37):
he was preparing and serving Page with food. So they
had a conversation about work while he was you know,
getting her food ready. She asked if he had any
jobs available, and he took her into the back office
to take down her details, as he said he could
offer her a part time job. But when taking her details,
he realized that she was only fifteen. And I'm thinking,

(27:58):
but you must have known roughly what you she was
before that, because she was coming in every morning and
go to school.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
Oh yeah, exactly. So I mean you might not know
exactly because you can still be at school at sixteen,
right enough?

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, or older?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
But yeah, I mean, but because she was fifteen, he
told her can't give her a job, which I'm not
quite sure about because she's fifteen. L she'd allowed to
have a job at fifteen.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Because she had started a job, and the yeah, it's
not like she'd be serving anything you know that's age related,
like you know, cigarettes and all that sort of thing.
Severely shot, isn't that.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, I don't know. If I don't think there's any
rules on.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
That you can't work in some capacity, I.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Would think so anyway, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
He decides that he didn't want to give Yeah, he
said that he couldn't give her a job, and he
said Page then threatened to tell her mum and other
members of her family that he had inappropriate, inappropriately touched
her right. So they both stood up and Page started screaming,
and he immediately reacted by grabbing it a knife which

(28:55):
was on a shelf in the back office, and stabbed
her repeatedly.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Remember that's his version of events.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Everyone who knew Page could venture for the type of
person she was, and she just wouldn't destroy a family
just because she wanted a job and thought that she
didn't even wanted to. She already had a job, she
was happy in her job, and not one single person
of her family or friends said that she wasn't happy

(29:24):
in her job, that she was looking for another job.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So it's very unlikely that she was asking for a job.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
But even if she was asking for a job, it's
very unlikely that that was the version of events.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Oh yeah, exactly. It doesn't seem quite right. And I
mean why would that cause the.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Anger as well? I mean, like, i mean, I'm sure
that would make you angry because I'd be like, oh
what the hell? You know, like you're fifteen, like you know,
but you would think a grown ass man would be like,
do you know what?

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Alphone your mum?

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Because knew he knew her mum as well, I'm just
going to tell her right now that what's just happened,
so that you know, so that you can't go to
accuse me.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
And but then the type of person, as you said,
the page sounds like, I mean, I mean, it doesn't
sound like her at all. It doesn't sound like her.
I mean, I know you can't say for definitely because
we don't know.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
No, of course not, and you don't know, but I mean,
you know, I don't know what that's the problem though,
you know, you've only got his version of events, and
he is going to make it sound like she was
doing something bad.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, of course, because he's trying to justify.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
To try and justify why. I mean, nothing can find
of course, not his reaction, but.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
You know, yeah, I mean, like as you said, he
don't wonder if something did happened, because what what would
why would on earth would he just go all mad
and just start stabbing this poor little girl. I mean, well,
maybe she made advances towards her and she refused. Maybe
she did start screaming because he was actually trying trying
it a mother, and she got scared because remember she's

(30:57):
almost fifteen and he's thirty one.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
So to me, I mean, I mean, this is just me.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Speculating, but if a thirty one your old man was
trying to come on to me, I would be a
bit whoa. Yeah, yeah, that would scare me. So said, like,
we don't know, we don't know, there could be any
amount of you know, there could be anything. But and
it's like there was no evidence to support his must

(31:23):
have followed him through the back though then yeah, because
for the details, well not necessarily, he could have dragged
her through the back.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
I don't know, he could have made up some excuse
for her to come through.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
The back because obviously, as you said, I mean, you know,
you know, if any other customers might have came.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Just we're never going to know because he's never going
to say. I mean, that's his version of the events.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
And yeah, I mean maybe there was some kind of
offer of a job, you know, or maybe he's sort
of said, well, I'm not looking right now, but well
I don't I don't know. There's no point in could
we could speculating and think of these Yeah, at the
end of the day, she was a fifteen year old girl.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
He's a thirty one year old man.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
He somehow managed to get her in the back office
and he brutally murdered her. And it doesn't it doesn't
matter really what the reason was for her being there
or doing that. At the end of the day, what
he did was absolutely horrific and nothing's going to justify it,
absolutely nothing. So as I said, like, of course, there
was there was no evidence to support that, and it

(32:27):
wasn't accepted by the crown. With no history of mental
illness and no previous convictions, it seemed that on the
nineteenth of March twenty sixteen, John Leutham just snapped after
killing Page, he put her body in his car and
continued his day as normal. So that's why I remember,
I said on the CCTV he ran, he'd obviously that

(32:50):
was just trying the corner, so he obviously ran to
get his car, put her in the.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Page in the Baity's car and and cleaned up.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
But he must have just like sort of cleaned up
a bit, because he opened the shutter, served customers as
usually until the end of the day, and I think
he went back and like cleaned it properly. Well, yeah,
so he went home, so yeah, so he finished his day,
just went on his normal and then he went home
and put page His body in his garden shed. And

(33:22):
he even took his wife and his child out for
the day on like on the next thing, on Sunday
went for a jolly day family day out while this
fifteen year old body was in his garden shed. How
can you do that? And on the Monday he realized that,
you know, he had to dispose of Page's body, and
that's when he took out of the side of Great

(33:42):
Western Road and left her there. So on the twelfth
of October twenty sixteen, John Lathan was sentenced to twenty
seven years in prison, but he appealed and in twenty
seventeen this was reduced to twenty three years. And I mean,
why why reduce it? Like, I'm sorry about twenty seven years?

Speaker 4 (34:04):
Was fine, Like I don't understand how been through the
courts and stuff like that, and that's what they've judged,
Like and you go, oh, yeah, let's appeal it. Then
somebody goes, ohright, so let's be nice to him and
give me at least four years.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Letter or whatever.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, and on, Like to me, I think it's cheeky
to even ask to appeal it. It's like what so
you don't think that you what you've done is bad
enough for that sentence.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
That's to me.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I'd be like, not add four years on any sentence,
because give more. Sometimes it does happen.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
So, as I mentioned earlier, Page loved to pout in
front of the camera, and after our death of Page Book,
a Facebook page called Power for Page was set up
and there was also a hashtag with the same name. Yeah,
and our family and friends urged anyone and everyone to
send in their self ways to the page with themselves
pouting as a tribute to Page.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Then my daughters actually did it. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I remember it anyway. There's also a charity set up
called pages Promise. So the description on the website, which
is pages Promise dot pages Promise dot com, says pages
Promise is a charitable organization set up honoring Page dockert Ay,
who was taken too soon in March twenty sixteen. We
aim to help other families and similar circumstances as we expand.

(35:23):
We want to offer financial assistance to families towards funeral
costs or expenses, incourage well off.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Work to cover bills.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Our aim is to help families or anyone who is
going through tragic circumstances and needs to gain peace and
harmony in their life. The organization offers self defense classes
for children, and Bishop Briggs and Clyde Bank retreats for
families who have lost the loved one suddenly and through
tragic circumstances, and they build and maintain memorial gardens with

(35:51):
the names of young people who have lost their lives. Yeah, so,
if anyone wants to check out the website, it's pages
promise all onward dot com.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
So thank you for listening, Thanks for listening, and see
you next time.