Jealousy Kills

This episode covers the murders of Joann Katrinak and her son Alex.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Laura and I'm Jil and this is Kick Divers. Hello, everybody,
Welcome to today's picture on Episodes. So where in the

(00:26):
world are we for today's patre rent? The us of A?
And what's the title? Jealousy Kills? Okay, then yeah, let's
dive in. So. Joanne Marie O'Connor was born on the
eleventh of October nineteen sixty eight in New Jersey, USA.

(00:51):
Her mum was Sarah, her dad was David, and she
was the youngest of four children. Joan was described as fun, likable, beautiful,
and always had She got married fairly young, but that
marriage didn't work out because she accused him of being
abusive and then so they got divorced. Then, when she

(01:11):
was twenty four, she married thirty thirty eight year old
Andrew Katrinak, who she met in a club. He had
worked as a semi pro boxer in Las Vegas when
he was younger, and then later set up his own
construction business. So Juan moved into Andrew's house in Catasa.

(01:33):
Kata saqua. I knew how to say this before because
I looked up the pronunciation. I can't remember now. Kata
saqua Catasaqua, I think that's what Catasaqua, Pennsylvania. And they
had a son called Alex in August nineteen ninety four.

(01:55):
So at the time of this Alex, she was twenty,
Joan was twenty six, and Alex was four months old.
So on the fifteenth to December nineteen ninety four, Joanne
had arranged to go shopping with her mother in law
of Veronica, So that morning, once she got herself and
Alex ready, she called for Veronica to say, right, we're
just leaving and we'll pick you up since so we're

(02:15):
just we're just on our way. Later that day, just
after six pm, Joanne's husband Andy arrived toe from work
to an empty house, which is unusual because Joan and
Alex were always at home waiting for him because you know,
she was a stay of hole mum, so they were
always there. But he wasn't too worried. He wasn't too
worried to start off with, because he knew that she

(02:38):
was shopping with his mum and just thought because it
was nearly Christmas, like everywhere would just be really busy
and it must have taken longer than expected, and you know, yeah,
and he's like, well, she's with my mom. So I
just grabbed him cell a beer, put the telly on,
and he obviously just kind of got caught up in

(02:58):
the telly. And then like a couple hours later, by
eight pm, he was like, where the hell is shit?
So he called his mom, Veronica, because they said they
knew that they were spending the day together. But Veronica said, no,
Johanna Wuld arrived to pick me up. So Veronica said
that she called the house a few times during the
day and she didn't get any answer. So I don't

(03:22):
know what she thought, but she didn't do anything about it,
because I thought maybe she would have phoned her, but
her son, yeah, I don't know. Maybe, I mean because
he was a contractor, maybe he was out working on
a building site and of course nineteen ninety four name
bile phone, so there maybe wasn't a way of getting over,
and she maybe wasn't that worried enough to like phone
the police or anything like that. She's maybe thought, I

(03:43):
don't know, can't we can't say what she thought. So
and his mom and dad came right over because they
were all really worried. Now, So while he was waiting
for his parents and he checked around the house just
to see if there was like sort of any clues
as to where Joanne was. So in the basement he
found the door leading outside open, which was really concerning

(04:06):
because Andy and Joanne never used that door, so well,
it should never have been opened anyway, but the fact
that they never used that door, it's always kept locked,
so that was worrying. The lock had been pried away
from the doorframe, so immediately Andy called the police. Shortly
after two officers arrived so and and Andy's parents are

(04:26):
also arrived by them. So Andy explained to the place
how Joan hadn't turned up for shopping and about the
door being forced open, and he said he was convinced
that Joanne and Alex had been abducted, and the officers
agreed that it was a possibility, although they weren't convinced
that the door was related to Joanne being missing. I
don't know why, but they maybe thought it was staged

(04:48):
because you know, who are you going to go to first, exactly.
So of course it was also a possibility that Joanne
had left in her own and taken Alex with her,
but it was also a possibility that Andy had something
to do with the disappearance. That's the investigat all possibilities
at this point there, but they didn't seem to think
that there was any file play and they left, so

(05:11):
so like so Andy's dad was like, right, okay, well
the police aren't going to Headland, so I'm going to
go out looking. So Andy stayed. I don't know what
his mom did, but Andy stayed home by the phone
and his dad went out searching, and at three am
he found Joanne's car and her car was it was

(05:31):
like part in a car park at the back of
a place called McCarthy's Tavern, which is basically just down
the street from where they lived, and it had been
reversed into the into the parking space. Our keys were
inside on the sea and there's like a can of
mace that she was carried around that was on the
seat as well. So Andy had went down like I did.

(05:53):
He went down and had a look and he was like, nah,
plat phone the place again. So this time they're like,
all right, okay, maybe there is foul play. But the
local force lacked the resources and experience needed to lead
the investigations, so they contacted Pennsylvania State troopers for assistance.
So with the possibility of an abduction, Major Robert Woods

(06:15):
looked to the most likely suspect, Joanne's husband, and so
there was a lot of looking into the family life
and looking at what Andy did on that particular day.
Officers arrived at his house the following day and Andy
told them that overnight he had noticed something else. There
was a cut phone line in the basement. So they

(06:39):
had two separate phone lines in the house. So there
was the one that had been cut that was for
the cordless phone, and the other one was the kitchen phone.
So the other line, I don't know why they talk
to it appeared to investigators whoever cut the line obviously
knew where to look and the knew which want to cut? Yeah,

(06:59):
so bring alarm bell with a bit there doesn't that yeah?
So State place evidence technicians also found a partial bootprint
on the basement floor and two marks on the door
frame where the padlock had been pried off. So as
they checked the rest of the house, they found nothing
to remove suspicion from Andy. In their bedroom, there was

(07:19):
no indication that Joanne had packed any clothes, and he
conferred it all are closed in between the wardrobe and
their suitcases. The suitcases were under the bed where he said,
that's that's where they get done. There was no blood,
no other signs foul play. They dusted for fingerprints, you know,
around the room's entry points, but only found Andy's and

(07:42):
Joans and an Alex room. There was no signs that
he had been taken, like because he'd like his clothes
and stuff, had they been packed or anything like that.
And there was no indication like a struggle or a robbery. So,
you know, obviously it's looking well the moment, he looks
like the only suspect, doesn't he. Yeah. So Joane's car
was taking the state troopers garage and it was processed there.

(08:04):
On the headdress of the driver's seat they found six
dirty blonde hairs. One was partially smeared with our dark
red substance which could have been blood, but nothing immediately
pointed to Joan and Alex's whereabouts. So and the leader investigator,
Trooper Bogie, and he was suspicious of the way that

(08:25):
the car had been found. He said there was a
couple of things that had led Andy because obviously they
asked Andy about the car where it was, you know,
and and Andy said it like his wife, like, my
wife didn't reverse that car into that parking space and them, No,

(08:47):
that's exactly it, because for one, they never used that
car park because they had a car park at the
back of their house, so there was no need to
park the car there because it was that close to
their house, there was no need for it. And two,
she never reversed the car which was parking. She would
always like drive in face face forward because she wasn't
very good at reversing. So and he was like, Nah,
somebody else rest It wasn't HER's going to be him though.

(09:12):
So three days passed with no news of where Joan
and Ads were and his parents they posted flyers all
over the neighborhood and they and just anywhere where they
thought that Joanne could possibly be. With no work from
Joanna or a kidnapper, Troopers dell further in Andy's background.
They found him anxious when he spoke of his former

(09:34):
days as a semipro boxer in Las Vegas. He earned
his living as an instructor when he first moved to Pennsylvania,
and he made good money, but now as a private contractor,
he barely made enough to cover the bills. So troopers
asked to see his financial records, including insurance. Dock him
and here we go, life insurance by statements, more records.

(09:58):
But when they checked, because you're laughing at that, but
you're wrong, didn't have one because when Cheka and they
could see that, Juan, yes, she did have life insurance,
but it was minimal. It was not worth killing a rower. Basically,
you know, it's just minimal life insurance. So on the
day that she disappeared, Andy said that he had been
with his dad building an extension for a client who

(10:21):
lived a few miles away. But the troopers weren't satisfied.
They suspected that he may have still been hiding something.
They demanded that Andy take a lie detective test. So
the first test showed that Andy hadn't been deceptive regarding
Joan and Alex's disappearance, but they needed to be sure,
so they tested them again and again the results were conclusive.

(10:43):
Like Andy was telling the truth about his wife's disappearance,
and he was then cleared as a suspect that you
weren't expecting that, were you? Well, I don't know, because
I thought, I mean, it was too clean cut up,
like you know, as if we were playing sailing here,
So I was thinking there was a bit of twist
that maybe because you were kind of alluding quite a
lot to and I'm like that. By now, Juanne and

(11:05):
Alex had been missing for four days and investigators still
had no solid leads. On the nineteen the December nineteen
ninety four, State Place contacted the FBI for help. Special
Agent Dave wrote from the FBI's and in town office
joined the investigation. So local, state, and federal agencies were
now involved in the search for Joan and Alex because

(11:26):
it just seemed as if they were just like bashed
without trade. Yeah, they were just like God, it's disappaired.
So investigators traveled across Pennsylvania state lines to question Joanne's
ex husband, who lived and work in New Jersey, Michael Jack.
Michael Jack had married Joanne in nineteen ninety one, but

(11:48):
as I said before, they got divorced just a few
months later because apparently Mike was abusive. So investigators thought
maybe Joanne had decided to rekindle the relationship and that's
where she was, okay, But that wasn't the case, and
Mike had a solid alibi for the day that Duan disappeared,
so agents also because they're like, well we're going to

(12:10):
her ex now we'll go to Andy's x so agents
also pursued from Andy's pass People from Andy's past, including
his ex girlfriend Patricia Roarer, know that she was part
just known as Pat. An FBI agent interviewed Pat at
her home in North Carolina, and she too had a
solid alibi for the day that Joan disappeared. So this guy.

(12:32):
The agent headed back to McCarty's tavern, where Joan's car
had been found, and asked around, hoping someone had noticed
her or whoever it was that part car. Everyone that
had been at the bar that day and night was interviewed,
but no one had seen a thing. So again it's
just like what the hell, Yeah, how does a mom
and a kid just just disappear? So obviously they did

(12:58):
like door to door inquiries around the neighborhood and one
director one director, no one neighbor directed them to hand
him a man who rented a room down the street.
He had done repair work in several local homes, and
detectives soon found out that he had a criminal record
for breaking and enter in and he seemed a promising suspect.

(13:19):
So he admitted to the police that he'd done he
had some run ins with the law, but he swore
that he had no knowledge of Joanna and Alex's disappearance.
He agreed to go to the station for further question,
and so down at the police station, he told officers
that he lived and a lean to by a river
near Joanna and his house in the summer months. So

(13:41):
I leaned to that's like a sort of shelter that
you would build against something. So in this case, I
suppose it would be like camping, but instead of a tent,
you've actually built a shelter wood or something like that.
So yeah, in the summer months he lived there. So
the police swirling, okay, think when search that? So the

(14:02):
search to set the shelter for any evidence that Joan
and Alex had been there, but they found nothing and
the handyman was cleared. So another dead end. So where
had Joannon Alex disappeared to? Like, they can't have just
vanished somewhere. So I'm hoping you're going to tell me
eventually it's not one of these unsolved ones that's going
to be left me frustraight, and we'll tough it of

(14:24):
its so frustrated. For frustrated investigators, precious time slipped away.
As the community concern grew, there were hotlines set up
as they asked the public for help. Reports of sightings
poured in. One resident reported seeing Joanne with an unidentified
man near railroad tracks behind her home. She was carrying
a baby and seemed frightened by the man pulling her

(14:46):
further into the woods against her will. So in response,
FBI agents and state police immediately conducted a massive line
search of a four mile stretch near the rail road tracks.
The search continued through the night the scandal area inch
by inch as helicopter circled overhead, but again they found nothing.

(15:07):
So other sightings included Duane being seen on a plane
and then a convenience store, but these didn't check out either.
So by the following spring, so this was December, the
disappears there were still no further forward. There's still no
sign them until the ninth of April. A farmer was
tilling his field in Heidelberg Township, which is fifteen miles

(15:27):
northwest of kata Sack Katasaqua, Catasaqua. Yeah, so yeah, fifteen
miles away he saw what looked like a pile of
clothes at the edge of the field, But when he
walked over to investigated, he realized that he was looking
at the human remains of an adult and a child. Well,

(15:49):
I say a child was a baby? Oh yeah, So
he called the authorities and the FBI and troopers arrived
straight away. Dental records would later confirm what they already suspected.
The bodies were Joan and baby Alex. So Joan was
on her back, and she had still had a bag
on you know, like I don't know what you call it,

(16:10):
Like a baby bag that's got like wipes and mappis
what do you call that? An happy bag? Well, see,
I thought a nappy bag was where you put the
nappy in the bag Once she changed it, I don't
know what that's what I'm saying. I'm like, but you
know she's shelves, had a bag on her shoulder, and
that she carried Alex and stuff, and she'd been shot

(16:32):
once in the head and beating about the face. Well,
she'd been beating about the face and head. So Alex
was faced down on his mum's stomach, dressed in a
blue snow sirt. So the bodies were fifty feet past
the end of a trail that ran through the woods,
and nearby crime scene technicians found a baby bottle and
a rattle into one of the troopers, bobbycon The location

(16:56):
of the items was significant. You could see items that
had fallen the ground almost like as in a sequence,
as if an assault had started and Joanne was out
sort of running away and she was dropping items along
the way. It appeared at the killer had driven up
to the end of the trail and from there had
forced Joanne to walk the remaining fifty feet. Evidence technicians

(17:16):
would spend fifteen hours searching the area, but they found
no shell case, ins, fingerprints, footprints, or a murder weapon, so,
in the hope that they might get some answers from
the forest debris, they collected like leaves and dirt from
beneath the bodies and sent them to the police lab
for a closer examination. So, with the mysterious disappearance officially

(17:37):
deemed a homicide, the case remained under state juristriction, but
the NBI never stopped actively a system. So an autopsy
revealed that Joan had been shot once with a twenty
two caliber bullet and beaten nineteen times with a blunt object,
and the fact that there had been two modes of

(17:58):
attack was a telling clue for Trooper John Kosovar. He said,
quote based on the evidence of empty shell I'm sorry,
based on the absence of empty shell casings and the
fact that the victim had received one shot and numerous
blows to the head led me to believe that the
gun had malfunctioned end quote. So it was like she

(18:18):
was shot once and then the gun's malfunctioned. So then
they've finished finished off by beating around the head. So
that's what he thought. So the medical examiner was unable
to determine exactly how baby Alex was killed, whether he
had been suffocated or left to die of exposure. But
I think the kind of I think it's I think

(18:41):
he was left just to die, Like I think he
just left on his mum and he died. It was December,
and they died in the elements, So that's absolutely horrender us.
No matter how he died, both of them died, absolutely
horrendo US. So police continued to analyze the physical evidence
found at the crime scene, and they found two more
hairs that, when tested, they matched the six hairs found

(19:03):
on the headdress in Joanne's car, so they belonged to
the same person. So, and the substance on one of
them was determined to be human blood containing DNA, consistent
with Juan's. So Joanne's bloody it was So the blood
no sorry because it said the blood Oh sorry. I

(19:26):
thought i'd type so the blood wasn't Joanne's, but I didn't.
The blood was Joan's, but the hair wasn't Joas That's
why I got mixed up there, because I thought it
was reading that the blood wasn't Joan's. The blood was Juan's,
but the hair hair wasn't. Tests proved that they didn't
belong to any of Joanne's family of friends who had
access to the car, because maybe she let her plans

(19:46):
of family being dyed or whatever so that everybody was eliminated.
So this hair must have belonged to the killer. So again,
the police turned to the FBI for help, and they
sent a behavioral profiler from Washington, DC. This was to
help narrow the search for suspects by detailing the type
of person responsible for a crime through that person's behavior characteristics.

(20:10):
So profilers study a variety of crime laid information, including
case reports, geography, timing, and the victim's habits. Then they
would visit the crime scene to try and find clues
to the killer's behavior. So investigators took the profiler to
the place where the bodies were found so that he
could look for anything that might reveal the killer's signature.

(20:32):
So the area was so far from Jane's house that
the profiler was convinced that the killer had been here before,
because like, why take part is somewhere just rather. They
also thought that the killer was male because the attack
had been so brittle and the adduction had taken place
in broad daylight, which offered another hint. The killer would

(20:54):
be somebody who was comfortable being seen in the small
town of Catussaqua. I don't know why, I can't say that,
and someone who perhaps knew the family's habits and the
layout of their house, something known to the family. So
with information from the profiler, the investigators had new direction
in a frustrating case. But troopers needed a name that

(21:17):
fit the profile, and to find that name, they decided
to drive Andy around the Heidelberg township close to where
the bodies were found to try and sort of prompt
his memory of someone who knew this rural area. They asked,
They asked if Joan had they were visited there or
did she have any friends or family members who lived nearby,
But Andy just could think of anyone. So the harry

(21:39):
back and Andy was just like they went back to
the police station and Andy was going to go and
jump in his car, and it was just about to
lay when he remembered something he did know someone who
knew Heidelberg township and also his house. His ex girlfriend,
Pat Roarer. Oh pam hm, so, and she's to marriage

(22:00):
stables in Heidelberg. She had a horse there and she
would look after other horses as well. So he can't
remember what the place was called, but he said that
they could give directions on how you get there. So
as he was telling the officers how to get to
these stables, they were like, he's directing us to the
area where Juan and Alex had been found. So yeah,

(22:24):
so we're Pat's kind of looking a bit but suspended.
They think it was male. So yeah, So Pat and
Andy they had split up in nineteen eighty nine and
she had moved back to North Carolina. Then in the
spring of nineteen ninety one. Before he met Juan, Patt
had visited him unexpectedly after she'd had a fight with
her most recent boyfriend. She just turned up at Andy's door.

(22:46):
So he had felt sorry for her letter stay for
a few days, but it was just purely friendship like
that happened. And after a few days she went back
to North Carolina. And then not long after that and
he met Juan. So Addie then told investigators that something
had happened three days before his wife and son disappeared.
On the twelfth of December, the phone had drag at

(23:08):
their home and Joanne had answered it, and it was
Pat wanted to speak to Addie, and so Joanne said,
was that Pats on the phone? And he was like,
I didn't speak to her, Like what does she want?
So Joanne just went back on the phone and was like, look,
just he doesn't speak to you, like he's married now,

(23:28):
Like just just leave us alone. You know, we've got
a baby, Like just don't call again. And then like
just hung up the phone on her. So he said,
he said that he knew Pat had a temper, but
he dismissed the idea that that she would do something
like that. You know, that's a bit much. But then
the investigation took in an unexpected turn. A second mother

(23:51):
and child were found brutally murdered. Right. They were found
in a changing room in a clothes shop. I mean,
imagine a changing room in a coal shop in nearby college. Well,
would somebody to kill somebody and a change at alerting anybody? Well,
it was just I think it was like a small

(24:11):
sort of shop, like a boutique, Like maybe there wasn't
anybody there, right, So investigators now wondered if a serial
killer was on the loose, preying on mums and children
and Pennsylvania. But they quickly arrested the suspect, who was
the shop owner's son. See, so maybe there was no
in the shop and he was exposure. I didn't want
to see that before, but maybe after he was working there,

(24:35):
and whether he did confess to killing the mother and
mother and child. But he had a solid ALBI from
the day that Juan and Alex were killed. So that
was actually just a massive coinstance. But to me, that
is a massive pointstance, isn't that, Like it's not very
often you're going to find a mother and child murdered.
But yeah, there was two in like similar like close

(24:58):
teacher and non really yeah, yeah, it wasn't him. So
investigators turned back turned back to Andy's ex girlfriend Pat.
She was a long shot though, and she was brunette
and you know that said that the hairs that were
found were like a dirty bond. And of course she
was a woman because the profilers didn't have as a man.

(25:21):
But she was familiar with both the abduction and the
murder site, so obviously she had to be investigating. So
troopers Bob Egan and Joe Kosovart traveled to North Carolina.
The FBI had helped coordinate a meeting with the Lexington
County Sheriff's office office so that together authorities from the
two states would get an interview Pat at her lawyer's office.

(25:44):
So Pat expanded upon her original alibi, and on the
fifteenth of December, of the day of the crime, she
said that she had gone a local tan and salon
and that night she had taken her regular Thursday night
dance lesson at the Cowboys and night Life bar. She
said that she'd worked at the stable in Heidelberg Township,
but she hadn't been back to Pennsylvania, since she'd visited

(26:07):
Andy that time that she'd stayed there three days, and
she also swore that she'd never owned a gun. So
investigators visited the Tan and salon, but the owner of
the salon said, no, she wasn't here that day because
and she knew for sure without even looking at anything,
because the salem was closed that day because it was

(26:27):
her husband's birthday, So she knew a straight away. She's like, no,
that day, that's my husband's birthday. And they were in
a city fifty miles away, and they went shopping, and
she'd even showed them a receipt from something that she'd
bought and musta had in her person. It was like, yeah,
I wasn't here, Yeah, that's where we were. That was
definitely my husband's birthday. The salm was shut, right, So
they're like, I think they would investigate that well, Pat,

(26:50):
Obviously they didn't know because then she went have or
she would't have used that as an albi, would she.
So so then they went to the Cowboys night life
bar and the dance instructor checked the log and book
and it showed that Pat had been there the Thursday
before the murders and the Thursday after the murderers, but
not on the day of the murders. So Pat, you're

(27:11):
signing very bad now. But suspicions. Investigators got Pat's phone
record obviously remembers house phone records, and they showed that
she had used the phone every day of December nineteen
ninety four except from the twelfth to the fifteenth. So

(27:31):
because her alibis didn't check out, she can prove that
she had been in North Carolina and North Carolina because
she hadn't even used her phone, you know. So she'd
used her phone, she used it for three days because
she wasn't there. So her police record that revealed the
history of violence. She had been charged in the past
in a neighboring county forgetting into a fight over a
man at a bar, and she was arrested that night.

(27:53):
It's about telling that she was arrested over a fight
over a man. So you know, it's not sounding good.
So investigators were still missing one key piece of evidence,
and that was the murder weapon. Pat continued to deny
that she'd ever owned a gun, but investigators kept digging
a North Carolina stable. They found one of her ex boyfriends,

(28:15):
Walter Blaylock, and he distinctly remember that Pat had bought
a handgun for fifty dollars at a yard cell. It
was a twenty two caliber twenty two caliber Jennings which
they had used for target shooting and Pat's back garden.
So the last time he had seen it was during
during an argument, she pulled it out and pointed at him.

(28:38):
But she shouldn't should just pointed at him. So he's
like no, and he actually explained something as well. The
gun had a flaw. He described it as being a
piece of junk that often, after the first time he
shot it, it would jam so that you wouldn't be
able to fire a second shot, which would make sense.
So if you remember, Joanne was shot once and then

(29:00):
beating around the head. So the FBI helped coordinate interstate
efforts to secure a probable cause warrant to search Pat's
house for the murder weapon. So they arrived with the
warrant on the twenty fourth of July nineteen ninety five,
and despite a thorough search, they didn't find the gun,
but they did find numerous spent twenty two caliber shell

(29:23):
casings in the pack garden. Don't you remember, Art, Yeah,
she's not very good at like covering her tracks this ship. No,
So the police told her, right, we know you that
you owned the gun, and she's all right, okay, but
my ex boyfriend Water he take it. He took it
when he moved out, which was about a month before
the murders. So the evidence against Pat was growing, but

(29:49):
it was built on circumstantial evidence, and strangely, the only
physical evidence, the hairs from the car and the murder site,
didn't seem to fit as the hairs were dirty blonde
and Pat's hair was brown. So the obvious question was
had her hair been dyed at the time of the
murders not, because they were actually hairs, were not they

(30:10):
would know that they were human hairs. So after after
some more dig in, it was found that Pat had
taken part in a rodeo competition shortly before the murders
and she had won. So the agents were like exactly.
They contacted the event organizers, hoping that photos had been taken,
and of course they were and they said yeah, because

(30:32):
she won, obviously there was going to be so they
said send them a photo of Pat and surprise, surprise,
her hair was dirty blonde. After well, it was that
died one way. I don't know what a natural color was,
so it was dyed one way or another. So the
photograph was given the crime scene the crime lab personnel
and they compared the color of the photograph of the

(30:54):
hair to the color of the hairs that were found
in the car and the murder site, and from that
it was decided that they needed to further investigate those hairs.
So detectives of Detectives obtained a warrant to collect blood
and hair samples from path and if evidence analysts could
match her hair to those from Joan's car and the
murder site, the troopers would be able to arrest her.

(31:16):
But they needed to rely on a test that was
so new that it would take more than a year
for the test to be approved, so until then, the
prime suspect of the double murder would remain free. So
Pennsylvania State Police Lab had determined that Pat's hairs were
microscopic micro microscopically consistent with the recovered hairs, but they

(31:41):
needed more proof. They needed a match at the cellular level,
so they extracted pats DNA sequence from her blood samples
and had attempted to compare it with the DNA and
the hairs from the crime scenes, but there was a
problem making a match. So an agent from the FBI
lab said, quote, when hairs are found a crime scene,

(32:02):
they are normally naturally shed hairs that don't have much
tissue upon the root. And if they don't have much
tissue upon the root, then there's very very little DNA
contained in those hairs, and therefore our experience has shown
us that nuclear DNA analysis will fail. So in this case,
only one of the hairs found that the crime scene
contained enough skin tissue necessary for the nuclear DNA analysis,

(32:27):
but there was a great risk to conduct a test
examine examiners would have to destroy that sample. So if
the test was inconclusive, there was no way to repeat
the process, and obviously they need to they've bang on.
So they needed a way to test the other hairs
that held no skin tissue. A possible solution lay in

(32:48):
a new process being pioneered by the FBI Lab in Washington, DC,
which is mitochondrial DNA testing. This was brand new. This
was the first forensics laboratory in the United States to
bring this new to bring this new analysis online. As
I said before, because the test was so new it
would take more than a year to be certain the

(33:11):
results could be scientifically reliable. So as you probably gathered,
eventually they got their answers, and there was no question
that Pat had left those hairs behind. So in the
early hours of the twenty fourth of June and nineteen
ninety seven, officers turned up at Pat's house and arrested her.

(33:31):
So I didn't mention it before, but when Pat originally
had her blood and her hair take and she was pregnant,
so when the arrested her, her daughter was eighteen months
old by now, she must have known it was coming.
She was been like looking over her shoulder all the
technic and it was a screen of the day that
I get arrested. So a female detective went upstairs with
Pat so that she could get herself and her daughter dressed.

(33:53):
So it was a routine safety precaution, but it yielded
some of the most damaging evidence in the case. The
time that Pat was saying to the baby and getting
herself dressed, the female detective was in the room and
she overheard Pat talking to her daughter, Nicole, And what
the detective overheard her saying was Nicole, if I had

(34:14):
known that I was going to get caught. I would
never have brought you into this world. So she's basically
confessing to her daughter, her eighteen month old daughter, and
the police woman heard it. Well, that was a been
dumbing it. So the detective went, she was like, oh, okay,
get the notebook out, wrote it down straightaway, so she
got word for word. So obviously that was very damaging. Yeah, definitely.

(34:38):
So Pat was flown to Pennsylvania to face murder charges
and preparing for the trial. Prosecutor's piece together the terrifying
events of Juan and Alex's last day. So on the
thirteen of December nineteen ninety four, Pat had broken into
the basement of the Catchnac's house knowing that and she
must have been watching, so she knew that Andy was

(34:58):
out and Joanne was in the house alone with Alex.
So Pat was in the basement and she could hear
Joane on the phone to her mother in law saying
she was that she was just about to leave. She
heard her hung up, handing out the phone, and then
when she hung up the phone, Pat cut the phone
line so that she went to call for help. So
at that point she must have been planning on going upstairs,

(35:20):
but that's not what happened, because then she heard Joanne
carrying Alex outside, and obviously she had no idea that
Pat was in the basement. So Pat heard Joanne leave,
so she so she ran outside to catch up with her.
So Joanne was putting Alex in the car and she
didn't so she didn't see Pat sneak up behind her

(35:40):
carrying a twenty two caliber gun. She first forced Duane
at gunpoint to get in the driver's seat, and Pat
got in the back with Alex and forced Joanne to drive.
So Pat directed Joanne to an obscure horse trail in
Heidelberg Township, and she told her to get out of
the car and get the baby out as well, or

(36:01):
with a gun pointed at her head, so Pat forced
her further into the woods, and on the way Joanne
dropped Alex rattle and then his bottle. She forced Duanne
down on her knees and fired the gun, but of
course it dammed, so that's why she started beating her
around head with the gun. So yeah, and as I

(36:21):
said before, it's not certain whether she suffocated Alex or
just left him. He died slowly of exposure. She had
her own little girl eventually, I mean, how would she
feel if that had been her? But she obviously didn't
think of that at the time because she wasn't pregnant.
She didn't have a baby at that time. But even
if you don't have a pregnant even if you're not
pregnant or a mother, And why would you do that
to a baby that, I mean, leaving it, leaving him

(36:46):
to die is just as bad as suffocating. I'm in
fact if it's probably worse, because if we'd suffocated on
he would have died straight away, But if you left
him die, he would have died slowly long it would
have taken exactly. And then so then after that, patro
to mccartis's tavern and parked Joanne's car there and made

(37:07):
her way back to North Carolina, obviously thinking that she
wasn't going to get caught because she made up those
lies and thinking, I don't she thought she had a
good alibi. Yeah, So the jury found pat Roller guilty
of two counts of kidnapping and two counts of first
degree murder, and she was sentenced to life in prison
with no chance of par I take it. She didn't

(37:30):
give any reasons, but she was jealous, jealous because her
she phoned Andy and want to speak to him, and
that was his wife told him, no, he's married, now,
he's got a child. Now, don't phone us to get like,
don't force you again. And she also took offense to
that and decided to get rid of her and her baby,

(37:51):
which I don't know what she thought she was going
to achieved by that, because if she wanted Andy, then
she wasn't going to get him back that way, was she?
Well exactly, so deluse now. Yeah, So that's it. So
there you go. There's a Patreon episode of The Fortnite
So thank you for listening and we will be back soon.

(38:12):
Thanks for listening. Bye,