The Circleville Writer

The town of Circleville started receiving anonymous letters, but who was writing them?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
To divers. I'm Laura and am jil. I'm welcome to
today's picture on episode Hello everybody, welcome back. Today is
a mysterious one. Oh sterious. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
So when word are we YESA and the title the
circle will writer? Okay, not too much to get away there,
but do you want to dive in?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Let's dive in. So this case happened in the town
of Circleville, which is in Ohio, USA. Okay. So the
population recorded in the twenty twenty census was thirteen thousand,
nine hundred and twenty seven so not a massive place.
It's just like a small town. Yeah, small tower. So
we're heading back to nineteen seventy six when the town

(01:01):
was suddenly hit with all these anonymous letters threatening to
expose the secrets of the people who lived there. So
Mary Gillespie seemed to be the main target of the
letter writer and she lived in Circleville with her husband
Drawn and their two children, and she was a school
bus driver. So she received a letter one day telling

(01:22):
her to end her affair with the school superintendent, Gordon Massey.
It read, missus Gillespie, stay away from Massie. Don't lie
when questioned about knowing him, I know where you live.
I've been observing your house and know you have children.
This is no joke. Please take it serious. Everyone concerned

(01:44):
has been notified and everything will be over soon. And
it was signed the Circle Will writer. So the postmark
on the envelope was from Columbus, Ohio, which is about
twenty five miles away from Circleville. So of course Mary
was a bit shaken up, but she decided not to

(02:06):
send it about to her husband, Rawn or anyone else
with that matter, and she hoped it would just be
one off, someone played a stupid joke or something, and
she wouldn't hear from them again. So Mary wasn't the
only one getting similar messages. Other women were receiving letters
accusing Gordon Massey of having affairs left right and center.
So I think they weren't. Well, they say the were.

(02:29):
Whether they were or not, I don't know sure, but
they said the were. And as I said, like, you know,
this letter writer was according to him, accusing him of
having affairs left right and center. He was married with
one child and he received a letter too, but it
was sent to the school, not his home addressed or why,
and I don't know exactly what it said in that letter,

(02:50):
but it was along the lines of like stop having
affairs and to stop being inappropriate with the women bus drivers,
as he was stopping them from doing their jobs properly.
It was also that also said that he shouldn't be
preying on another man's girl and to go and find
a pimple faced wrr and to quote leave my girls alone. Okay,

(03:15):
And I just thought a pimple faced whore? Are you
talking about a school girl? Because I thought school girls
like spots, you know, like when they're like puberty what
And to leave my girls alone? Like how are they
your girls? Yeah? Exactly? Like weird? Yeah. So Mary continued
receiving letters over the next couple of weeks with the
same kind of message. One letter she got said, lady,

(03:39):
this is your last chance to report him. Sounds a
bit immature of these letters. I know you're a pig,
and we'll prove it and shame you out of Ohio.
A pig sneaks around and meets other women's husbands behind
their backs, causes families and homes and marriages to suffer.
And she was told to tell her husband drawn about
the affair, otherwise they would do it for her, so

(04:00):
many didn't want to tell ron As I said before,
you know, she denied having an affair, So she was like, well,
why would I tell my husband or a bit an
affair that I'm not having? And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I mean, I mean, I suppose she probably doesn't want
any well, no doubt, because I think myself like if
I was generally not had an affair with someone, and
then I.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Was you don't want to plant that seed in your
husband's mind exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
So I was like, would you say because what they
don't know won't hurt them type thing?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
But then it's on the same talking.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
I'm like, but if somebody's trying to say I've done
something that I'm not, I kind of want to defend
myself as well. And I don't know or do I
be open and honest to my husband that somebody's trying
to accuse me?

Speaker 1 (04:40):
And oh see the way that I see it. I
just think that if I received if I was the one,
like if my husband, if John had got a letter
like that accusing him I own affair and he came
clean with me and said, look, somebody sending me this letter.
They're accusing me have an affair, bah blah, I be
kind of thinking, well, I didn't think you were having
an affair before, but now I'm kind of wondering. Yeah,

(05:01):
Like so I can understand why she wouldn't want to
say anything.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
But then on the flip side of that, I think
it's like with me and justin obviously we have like
such a I would open relationship and.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
What people do.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
But I think, you know, if I ever got something that,
I'd be like, look at this like somebody, and like,
I know I've not done anything wrong, so you know,
would he maybe, I don't know, would you appreciate that more?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Because if something else came.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
If it happened again and he found out and then
be like, well why didn't you tell me?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Like why are you hiding that? And I'm like, you know,
I could have told you. There's different ways you can't.
I mean, don't get wrong, I don't think there's maybe
any right or wrong answer to that. I should have
dealt with that. It's just like you're.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
All different in personal opinions of how you would Yeah,
and everybody's marriage is different.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
And as you said, like, I mean I would want
to tell John if I was innocent, But then I
would be worried because I'd be thinking, well, is he
going to think I'm not an affair now? Because why
would that person be saying that I'm having an affair
if I'm not, And is that going to open up
a whole card of worms when really it might not
go any further. But then if we did find out
that I haven't told them, then see.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Maybe I can understand, maybe like the first time when
she first got the first letter, But if she's been
sort of the main kind of target and she's had
more than one, then I don't know. Is that maybe
when you, if you are genuinely innocent, would you look
to go Actually, I've not told you the first time
because I thought it would just go away some stupid person.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know, mucking around. But now I'm a bit worried.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Because somebody keeps sending me these letters. Obviously the contents
of it isn't true.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I don't know. It's a difficult one really, but wasn't true.
We're talking about if she's innocent, that's true, I don't know.
But then if she is guilty, then it will probably
look better on her if she did say, I look
this person saying this, but it's not true. I don't know,
there's no right or wrong way.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
It's one of those things unless you're actually presented with
that situation, so you don't know how you would deal
with it.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, I mean she said that she didn't want to
tell them because it wasn't true, and she just hope
that this letter writer would just give up and leave
her alone. You know, she was obviously just burying her
hand head in the sand, no reaction, and they might
get bored and alone. But of course they didn't stop,
and Ron soon received a letter and it said, mister Gillespie,
your wife is seeing Gordon Massy. You should catch them

(07:23):
together and kill them both. He doesn't deserve to live.
Like he doesn't deserve to live because takes two tang
with that. So at this point it seems like somebody's
got a vendetta against Gordon Massy. Yeah, because I think it.
What's but we're not going to think that later, not
just him any confused, Okay, I'll just carry on. Yeah,

(07:46):
So a couple of weeks later he received another letter saying, Gillespie,
you have had two weeks and done nothing. You're a pig.
Make her admit admit the truth and inform the school board.
If not, I will brood cast it on cbe posters, signs,
billboards until the truth comes out. Only pigs ride motorcycles,

(08:08):
good hunting, and your red and white truck on your
way to work. I followed him for weeks since last
summer and have seen her meet him with him several times. Now, Yeah,
it sounds ready, and I'm not quite sure what he's
talking about. What they're talking about. So, because it says
only pigs ride motorcycles, so I think that's talking about

(08:31):
Gordon Massi that he must ride a motorcycle. And then
he's talk about good hunting in your read and white truck,
so he ron obviously drives a red and white truck.
And that's whybe to say, I'm watching you, I know
what you drive. And he's saying that. This person's saying
that they followed Gordon Massi for weeks last summer and
seeing them meeting up. But it does sound very childish,

(08:53):
doesn't that. Definitely are you thinking a manner of woman
by this point, well.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
He's writing the letters, Yeah, but I was. I was
definitely thinking the man out that you just point out
to me, I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Actually is it. I don't know. I was just wondering. No,
I don't know. I was just wondering because when we're
not gonna find out, that's why it's mysterious.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, So I was just wondering if you had any thoughts. Well,
I mean, you know, it's you look at it two ways.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's could have been a you know, a woman that's
been upset by this Gordon massy Well his wife or
his wife, and she's trying to I could be a
mistress probably know, yeah, I mean, if an affair with
somebody else she's now trying to make you know, because
she doesn't want to be the one caught has been
the mistress. Maybe she's trying to make it out like
it's somebody else he's having an affair with because he's.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
You know, I don't obviously upset in some way. So
it could be women. See, well, I don't know. I
was just wondering if you had any thoughts. You don't
have to have any thoughts. I was just wondering if
you did. Well, now you're making me think. But now now,
now that's what I'm thinking. Oh okay, so the letter Sorry.
The writer also sent a letter to the schools of
vice principal telling him about the alleged affair. And it

(10:00):
also said why I get the school behole That means
the bus driver and stuff. And he's the superintendent member.
So this is the vice So this person's obviously wanting.
I'm sacked. It said, quote, I shall send you a
proof about driver number six two nine one seven. So
this is this person knew Mary's driver number, which I thought,

(10:23):
that's not something you would any Tom, Dick or Harry
would know. Is it somebody's driver number a school kid? Well,
sure it must be something something to do with someday
that's got something to do with the school. Maybe I
just don't see unless you specifically went look as because
she's probably got a driver's number. It will be displayed somewhere. Yeah,

(10:45):
like that some easily could see it, Yeah, but actually
take note of it and know where it is. So yeah,
so it said, I'll said you proof about driver number
six two nine one seven. She has a she has
a child in school there. Now I shall prove this shortly.
I expect him to be discharged. You'll see that. I'm
telling them too. So this person's wanting. Gordon Massey sacked

(11:07):
a child at school? No, she has many. That's Mary's
driver number. She's the bus driver. I remember. So it's
saying i'll send you a proof about Mary, that she's
having an affair with Gordon Massy. I don't know why
they have to prove that the child being in school,
I don't know, but I expect him to be discharged.
So this person is wanting Gordon Massie sacked. Are you

(11:29):
keeping it hat? If you if you're getting lost? So
Gordon Massey works at the school too, he's a superintendent.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I thought Rob was a superintendent. No, Ron is her husband,
but I thought he also was the superintendent. Garden is
the super garden?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Is right? There's a many and honor married some of that.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
The letter writer is telling her to stop her affair
with the superintendent Gordon Massey. She is a school bus driver.
He's the superintendent on the school. I hope everybody else
is keeping up easy to get to get confused, No,
that's right, but I would rather you ask me, because
if you're getting confused, then maybe your listeners are getting confused.
So so the Gillespies continued to get letters saying things

(12:12):
like I know what car you drive, I know where
your kids go to school. Understandably, they were shaking. So
who was this person and what like what were they
trying to achieve? Really? What was their end goal here? Yeah?
And Gordon Massy, the superintendent of the school, he was
also receiving more letters where he was threatened that if
he didn't end the affair, the writer would slash his

(12:32):
tires and cut the brakes on his car. And as
I said earlier, other women were getting similar letters about
Gordon Massy, but also other people in the town were
also getting letters about other secrets they had, like maybe
other people who were having affairs or maybe does this
person know then that all these people have all these secrets.

(12:53):
A lady whistledown or gossip girl, do you know who
these people are? Whistled Down is from Bridgerton and she writes,
she writes like a newsletter, and she knows like everybody's secrets,
but nobody knows who she is. And gossip girl, gossip
girl is girl. Well there's a person who is gossip girl.

(13:16):
Who's who's how unidentified? Write you find it? Who is
an end But yes, a person who knows everybody's secrets?
And hey, gossip girl here and you know, did I
saw so and so and so and so do so anyway? Yeah,
so that's like this person. So this person seemed to
know everybody's secrets and was threatening to expose them. So

(13:38):
it wasn't only just the Gillespie family and Gordon Massey
that we're getting it. There was other people getting stuff about.
I don't know, maybe they had a corrupt business, or
maybe somebody stolen something, or you know, they're having a
lesbian affair or something like that. So all the letters
were postmarked Columbus and I said earlier, and the writing

(14:02):
was always the same and black capital letters, so it
looked like it was just one person that was writing them.
So Mary and Ron only told three people about the letters.
So they told ron sister Karen and her husband Paul
fresh Hour. So it was Carol fresh Air and Paul
Fresher and also Paul's sister. So one night Mary and
Ron asked the three that would come round so that

(14:23):
just so that they could like talk about discuss it,
try and come up with some theories as to who
it would be. So Mary thought that she knew who
it was, so she said that she thought it was
this guy called David Longberry, and he was also a
school bus driver, and he had previously asked her out,
but she had said no because she was married with kids.
So and she had said since then he'd sort of

(14:45):
acted weird with her, kind of resentful life. He was
pissed off because he was rejected. Yeah, she was fucking
married with kids. That's a really good excuse to be rejected.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, if you were single and rejected, then I can
understand maybe a bit more about it.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Know somebody's or they tell you the kids, You're like, yeah, yeah,
that's a good excuse. Yeah, totally, I totally understand why
you're saying no. And you don't need to take that personally,
well exactly because there's nothing to new with you. That's
the fact that she's married with kids. So the fire
with them decided that, you know, yeah, I think they
all kind of thought, yeah, he is the writer. Definitely,
he is the writer. So they thought, I don't know,

(15:23):
it could be I told you, we don't know who
the writer is, So anybody who comes up in this,
we're not going to know if they are or not.
So they decided they were going to write a letter
to him. So Ron's brother in law, Paul, he wrote
the letter, and he told David that they knew it
was him who was writing the threatening a letter to
Mary and Ron and warned to stop. And the letters

(15:46):
did stop. So they were like next one, they all
breathe a sigh of relief that their ordeal had finally
come to an end. So there's suspicions were right in
their heads that they're not. Yeah, it was until a
couple of weeks later the letter started to but this
time they were they got worse. So one of them said,
it's your daughter's turn to pay for what you've done.

(16:07):
I shall come out there and put a bullet in
that little girl's head. And this little girl on the
question was Tracy, who was only twelve years old. And
then you could say, like, did the guy that they
wrote the letter to the wait a.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Couple of weeks because he was then he annoyed that
they almost have sent a letter. And then that's why
I started again. I would think, so, like I don't know,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
So. And then many noticed some signs on the side
of the road on our bus route, like handwritten signs
on the side, you know, and they were accusing Gordon Massy.
I actually say it's here Gordon Massive, correct, And they

(16:51):
were accusing Gordon Massey of having a sexual relationship with Tracy,
the twelve year old. So not only I had this
person was accusing them of have an extra marital affairs,
they were now accusing like they'll call them a pedophile now,
And of course Ron and Mary were horrified that this
person was now targeting their daughter. And the way I

(17:15):
was thinking though I was, I was thinking myself, but
why are you naming that child even if that was true,
which there's no evidence that it was. To I don't,
I don't think it was true. Well, Tracy said, there wasn't.
And obviously she's an adult now. So there, if you're

(17:36):
calling somebody a periophile, if that's what they are, fine,
call them a pedifile, but you do not name the child,
twelve year old child. It is so obviously, as I said,
they were horrified. So Ron would get up early every
morning and drive around town to take down all the
signs before people like started getting up and going to work,

(17:56):
and of course before Tracy went to school, because at
this point they wouldn't have told Trace no better like
obviously when she got older. But yeah, the police hopeless.
I don't know when they phone them, because like, I
don't know if they've phoned them by this point, but
they did at some point, and they were hopeless. So

(18:17):
his brother, Ron's brother in law, Paul fresh Hour said, quote,
Ron was devastated and distraught. He didn't get much sleep
during that period of time in his life. He was
frantic and would drive around for an hour or two
in the morning before his shift began, looking for any
obscene posted signs. Ron worked very hard to figure out
what it was really all about and to have the

(18:37):
problem solved. So I think he mustn't have believed the
letters then he obviously I don't know he doesn't. I
don't think he believed them, but I think they when
the five of them all got together and they all
just I think they all kind of just want to
put aside what the letters were saying, and they just
want more, wanted to concentrate on to find out who
was doing it and to stop to stop them. So

(18:59):
I don't think he will. I mean, he might have
had doubts. I don't know, but and especially now that
it's on the target and his daughter obviously he's got
more reason you want to, you know, find out who
this is and get stopped. So, as you can imagine,
the family were like stressed to the max, and Ron
suggested that Mary go away for a couple of days,

(19:19):
just get away from it all. So she went to Florida.
We're on sister Karen and a couple of other friends.
While she was away, on Friday, the nineteenth of August
nineteen seventy seven, Ron was at home with the kids,
just chilling out and the phone rang. So his daughter
said later that when he heard the voice at the
other end of the phone, his face changed. It was

(19:41):
like he recognized the voice and he listened to what
the person had to say. Then he slammed down the phone,
grabbed his gun, told the kids he was going to
confront the circle. Well, let her write our So obviously
I had told the kids about it. I don't know
if they knew specifically, because I don't see what they
would get out of telling a twelve year old that
she was targeted because more than maybe they were exactly,

(20:04):
but they must have told him about you know this,
somebody was writing nasty letters. So yeah, so he told
them he was going to confront the circle will letter write,
and he stormed out the door, got on his truck
and drove away. Unfortunately, thirty five year old Ron Gillespie
never came home. His truck was found hours later. He
had crashed into a tree. He wasn't wearing a seat belt,

(20:25):
and he'd been ejected from the car and was dead
at the scene. He had been traveling a high speed
and had missed the turn and went straight into the tree.
The police were called and when they arrived they found
his gun and they determined that one shot had been
fired from it. After the odd autopsy, they found that
the alcohol in his body was about twice the legal limit,

(20:47):
so it was ruled as an accident duty drunk driver.
But that seems strange to everyone who knew him, because
they all agreed that Ron wasn't a big drinker. He
would have the occasional beer or whatever, but he wasn't
a drink. Her and his kids said that they didn't
think he was drunk when he left the house. So
of course, of course it was possible that he was drunk,

(21:09):
but it just seemed really unlikely, and a lot of
his close friends and family thought that this was some
sort of cover up, as they just didn't believe that
he would drink that much in the first place, never
mind then getting a car and driving the state that state.
It was just that makes sense. Yeah, it was just like, no,
he would never do that. I mean, they get me wrong.

(21:31):
If you've been targeted with these letters and are going
to about your daughter and whatnot, and then you get
a phone call from that person, you might you might
do something you thought you exactly, you might do something.
I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
I mean, I know that people would say, oh, my
loved one would never do that, but that doesn't mean
they couldn't in the circumstances that have led them to
the moment that's happened, Like something might have triggered it.
They could act totally character and do something they've never
done just because you think you know them and you

(22:02):
know they're not like that on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
And normal circumstance. But this isn't.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
But when it's not a normal I don't think you
can predict what everybody's capable of, to be quite honest.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
So we don't know because it could have been a
cover up. So well, we'll get any facts well, yeah,
he died. Well it's not great. Great. Yeah, So to
this day, no one knows what happened from him leaving

(22:35):
his house to crash in his car, Like and who
did he fire the gun at or what did he
fire the gun at, Like could have fired on the
impact of the crash, like on its own. I don't know,
Like was he being chased? Was that why he was
driving so fast? Like did someone run him off the road?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
But then to me, it's like he was heading somewhere
because if he got a phone call and said he
he specifically said to the girls these kids that you know,
I'm going to confront the killer.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
So he was had a purpose of where he was going.
But he could have already been there and found that
killer because it was likely hours later that his truck
was found, so he could have found that person confronted them.
He obviously didn't mustn't have shot them because nobody came
forward with a bullet wound unless he missed, and then
he could have been chased by this person. We don't know.
This is just like, you know what people are saying

(23:24):
that what happened, Why was he driving to why did this?
You know, why did that happen because he knew these
roads so well, he lived there and he'd lived there.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Like, where does the alcohol said coming in? Like, wasn't
a big drinker, he didn't seem drunk.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
So did he drink between when he left the house? Yeah? Like,
or did you know they did something? Whatever happened?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Say if it was hours later he left the house,
did he confront the said person?

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Did something happen?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Did it cause him to go and drink because he
was so traumatized?

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Or I don't know, I mean, but surely there would
be some evidence of him meeting meeting with the person,
like somebody was badly beat up or shot or that
person was not necessarily it might not have that might
not be a violent Maybe he killed the person. And
because they don't know who the person is, well, I

(24:21):
think they would have looked done it if anybody had
turned up dead, though, they would have noticed that somebody
was if they noticed that somebody was missing, and somebody
know all those secrets. Has to be somebody who's in
the so people would know was missing. Like, it can't
be just somebody who nobody knows ending about it. Oh,
we're going right. So the letters and signs stopped after

(24:44):
Ron's death, and people wondered, did the person get fright
after his death as they didn't mean it to go
that far, or did they get what they wanted hre
was it wrong to teach me a lesson? No, you'd
put me off the I was gonna say. Or did
they get what they wanted to teach me a lesson?

(25:05):
Even though, like because if she was having an affair
where they trying to teach her lesson by sending the
letters and splitting up her marriage, but then her husband
died and they were like, yeah, you know, I don't
know if maybe it was wrong. Well it wasn't because
the letters are are going to continue. We're not anywhere
near the end of the story yet. So then he
didn't actually kill the person either. It had still continued

(25:27):
the same person. It was only one person. Paul fresh Air,
Ron's brother in law, just couldn't believe that his death
had been an accident. He kept on or on it
at the place, telling them that it was something more sinister.
He told them that Ron knew those roads like the
back of his hands, and he thought this was murder.
He also told the place that this wouldn't have happened

(25:50):
if they had taken the reports of the letters and
the signs more seriously. So obviously they must, they must
be reported, but they've just not really done anything. But
if you remember, if you think about it this back
in nineteen seventy six, simty seven, there was any stocking
laws or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
So and because no crime has been committee as such,
then I.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Guess no, there isn't there was done. And he even
accused them of being in cahoots with the letter writer
and they were covering up Ron's murder and they faked
the blood alcohol results. That's what Paul fresh Hour was
she thought he thought the police were doing that. Yeah,
they thought they were accusing the police of being in
hoots with the letter writer and they were covering up

(26:29):
Ron's murder, and they faked the blood saying that he
was he was a drunk divan, when actually maybe he wasn't.
It was some like somebody murdered him. So Paul, who
was an army vet and a former prison guard, wanted
to help in the investigation, but of course the police
wouldn't let him. But he was that mad and that
convinced that Ron had been murdered and this is his

(26:52):
brother in law. You know. He was like, I know,
I'm like, he's been murdered. Yeah, Bally members are not
always wrong, you know. Then the letter started again. This
time the sheriff received one, and even the letter writer
was accusing him of being involved in a cover up.
But they were saying that it was Mary Gillespie and

(27:14):
Gordon Massey who had killed Ron or had someone kill
kill Ron so that they could finally be together. That's
what the letter writer was saying, lens to go to
to make that happen. It's happened in the bath plenty
people have done that more.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
But then you just think, christ, if that was true
and these you know, they wanted to be together.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
The word well, yeah, that's what we say about all
the murders, when people murdered their husband or wife so
they can be being somebody else. The letter writer also
wrote about the corner Ray Carroll and accused him of
faking the autopsy and also accused him of being a

(27:59):
pediphy well, which was actually true. Ten years later, he
was exposed as a serial sexual abuser. So it kind
of me. She wondered, like, oh, does this letter write
write or no things? Because that actually turned out to
be true. How do they know, I don't know. Watch Gossop,
Kroll or Bridget and then we get you some tips.

(28:20):
Well you've watched them, so tell me. My memory sucks.
I can't even remember. So the letter the letters kept
from watching people and just being there all the time,
just a very sad life of you just constantly in
other people's business. Well, if you've got the time to
be writing all these letters and you got a job
or like family of your own or what. The letters

(28:42):
kept arriving, and over the years they would be sent
to schools, government offices, local businesses, just accusing them the
sating the next thing, and just threatening to expose them.
And I never ran all the secrets right may it
was still still I am the main targeting. By nineteen
eighty three, she had thirty nine letters. One day she
confessed that she did have an affair with Gardon Massy,

(29:04):
but it didn't start until after Ron's death. Communiely not
really sure what the point was because unless she thought
the letter writer would now stop, and she did like back,
maybe oh, she's like, well I did, so you can
stop writing now my husband. She's not got her husband
to lose anymore because he's already gone. I just don't

(29:24):
see the point. Why would she say that? And she
still denied that she had. She still denied that she'd
had an affair when the letter writer first accused her.
But I just find that, really, somebody's accused you of
this and has ultimately led to your husband death, and
then you then you decide to go and have an
affair with the person that you were accused of having
an affair within in the first place.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, because to me, like, wouldn't that look obvious that
you probably were having an affair beforehand?

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Or and the guy's married and got a kid, and
you're widow, didn't got two kids like you know, don't,
so it makes me wonder they probably were having I mean,
we don't know for sure, but we don't know for sure.
So the signs were still appearing on Mary's bush route
and she would regularly have to stop the bus to

(30:11):
take them down. And on the seventh of February nineteen
eighty three, after having dropped all the kids off all
the kids off, she spotted one which said something obscene.
I don't know what said, but apparently it was really
bad about her daughter and Gordon Massey, So she went
over here. So I think the point being that it
was so obscene that the letter the person who had

(30:33):
written it knew for definite that she would get up
and go and take that sign down. There's a reason
for it. So she went over over to it and
saw that it was stuck like on a normal signpost.
But she looked down and where the post went into
the ground, she saw a wire and she like cleared
the grass away around it, and she saw a small

(30:53):
wooden box. So she ripped down the sign, picked up
the box and took it back to her bus. So
she drove home and carefully opened the box and there
was a gun inside pointing right at her face. So
basically whoever had done this had tried to make a
booby trap. The wire was wrapped around the trigger, so
the gun was meant to go off when the box

(31:14):
was opened. But luckily whoever done this didn't do a
very good job. But if it had worked, maybe would
have been shot right in the face. So I think
that's why the sign was so obscene. So the letter
writer knew for a fact there's no way which she
would just let that one go, so she took the
box and the gun to the place, and they sent

(31:35):
the gun off to forensics, and they figured out the
serial number of the gun as the person had tried
to file it off but hadn't done a very good job.
They quickly traced the gun to its owner. By now,
this was seven years after Mary received that first letter.
This has been going on for seven years. So after
all these years, they eventually had a name. Now, let

(31:58):
me see if you can guess. Can you think it anybody?
This person has been mentioned? No, Ron, No, the police
superintendent guy, the police that the brother in law did
the brother in law, Paul Fresher. Yeah, Paul Fresher, Ron's

(32:21):
brother in law, the one who had insisted that Ron's
death was a murder, the one who wrote a letter
to that first guy that they suspected, and the one
who want to help on the investigation in it Ron's death.
So on the twenty fifth of February nineteen eighty three,
the sheriff took Paul to the police station for questioning,
and his wife, Karen so Run's sister, Mary's sister in law,

(32:46):
and his wife Karen or ex wife by now, was
also questioned. So they've splat by now, they'd been through
a nasty divorce as she had cheated on Paul as
she accused him of being abusive. He had kept the
house and got got custody of their children, so she
had lost everything and she was now living in a
trailer on Mary's property. Right, but she did convert to

(33:08):
the place that yes, Paul was the letter writer and
that it had taken its toll on their marriage. She
told them that when they were still married, she had
found a letter that was ripped and she did see
the name Gillespie on it, so she looked around the
house to see if there were any more, and she
said that she did find more, but when asked to
hand them over, she told the police that she'd gotten

(33:30):
rid of them.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So she's saying, yes, I think my husband or ex husband, Yeah,
is the letter.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Writ Yeah, she said. She's basically saying she didn't w first,
but then she found a letter. She found more letters
that took us toll, mamage, she cheated on him, he
was being abusive when they split up, and she's lost
their rim. Okay. So meanwhile, at the police station, Paul
denied that he was the writer and or the attempted
murderer because that's basically the writer. As I said before,

(34:00):
they can't real jo ending about the letters. So he's
basically been pulled at the polication for attempted murder because
of the gun, and he was he was cooperating, cooperative operative.
That sounded weird with the investigators. He was asked if
he had a gun, and Paul said yes, but it
had been stolen recently and he believed that he was

(34:23):
being framed. He gave a he was given a polygraph test,
but he failed. At the sheriff wanted a sample of
Paul's handwriting, so he actually gave him one of the
circle letters to copy, which I don't think is the
way to do it. I don't think that's quite how
you're supposed to do it, and I think you're supposed
to use a handwriting expert. But after comparing the writ

(34:45):
and the sheriff determined that Paul's writing was a perfect
match with a Circle Will letter writer, and obviously, because
the Circle Will writer was the assumed was the same
person as the attempted murderer, they arrested him. So when
on trial, the court heard that Pollard taken the day
off on the day of the baby trap incident, and
at the gun the box and the box at the

(35:09):
gun in was I know what I'm sorry to say here, right,
the box that the gun was in. Right, they were
saying that it was the box. It was one that
held chalking it and originally it held chalking it And
he would have had easy access to one of those
boxes at his work in a brewery in Columbus. Remember Columbus.

(35:31):
Where's Columbus. Oh my god, Columbus is where the letters
were postmarked. Oh yes, yes, that's right. And I knew
that I didn't. Yeah, So they're like he so was
he posting them? He was using a box that chalk

(35:54):
had been in from his work, and you know these
letters were coming for come up Columbus and that's where
he worked. Makes sense, so yeah, of it. So along that,
along with the failing of the polygraph, that convinced the
court that he was guilty. However, the jury was never
told that another bus driver had spotted a tall man
with sandy brown hair standing near the baby trap sign

(36:17):
about twenty minutes before Mary got there, and apparently was
peeing next to his car, Lovely Lovely, which was a
yellow el Camino. Paul had dark hair and much shorter
than the man that this bus driver had seen, and
he didn't have a car match in that description. So
even though this has been reported, the police didn't even
bother to try and find the man or the vehicle.

(36:39):
But Paul's ex wife, Karen, she was dating a man
that matched that description, and although he didn't have that
kind of car either, but her brother did so I
don't know how popular these yellow elk whatever they are,
one that's quite close. So the defense was pointing the

(37:01):
finger at Karen because she would be the one who
had a lot to gain by Paul being in prison.
She would get our kids back, her house back. But
the jury obviously didn't agree, and Paul was found guilty
of attempted murder, and he was given the maximum sentence
of seven to twenty five years in prison, which I thought,
how is that a maximum sentence? Surely twenty five years

(37:24):
is the maximum sentence, not between seven and twenty five.
Can just make a number between exactly, So there you go.
He was put in prison for attempted murder. So there
we have it. After all these years and hundreds of letters,
they had caught the letter writer and an attempted murderer
or had they obviously this would not be a mystigious

(37:46):
Why if that was it, Well, Dicken has been quite
mysterious so far, I guess. Well, yeah, obviously more to go. Yeah,
because now that Paul was in prison, you would think
that the letters would stop if he was the letter
right or surely the would have stopped, but they didn't,
so they kept being sent being sent as normal.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
So Paul, then that makes the real person done then
because if they're that and they know about people's lives
and stuff, surely they wouldn't know what's happened to Paul.
Been in the newspapers at the time or whatever, or
the local community they would all know about it.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
So there's your scapegoat that you just got away with.
So why would you keep going because they obviously haven't
finished yet. They still want to keep going. So Paul
was put on a pen and paper ban in prison,
but the letters were still being sent. He was then
putting a solid, solid confinement, so it could have been
sending the letters, but yet the residents of Circle Wells

(38:41):
were still receiving them. Things like two women having an affair,
someone having a CRP business. As I said earlier, you know,
just pedophiles, people are having extra marital affairs. How could
Paul even know these things, never mind sending letters about
them while he was in prison. You know, he's not
going to know what's going on unless somebody was telling
them what was going on, you know, like you wouldn't

(39:01):
know all that even if he was sending letters. And
plus the letters were still marked Columbus and the original
place where the walls came from, and Paul was in
prison about an hour and a half away from Columbus.
And then the letters that came to prison would well,
I don't know if they used to be I mean,
I know now they say, hm, yeah, well I'll not
be that over there, but whatever, it will say the

(39:22):
prison name on the envelope, so you would know that
they were coming from prison. So it's definitely not him
that was sending them.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
No, definitely, And normally they would be all checked before.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, well, well and they were doing that as well,
like when they you know, when they did let them
have a pen and paper, they were obviously reading the
letters before they were sent out. So he wasn't sending letters.
So he even got a letter himself that. It was
like it was sent to the prison and it said, quote, now,
when are you going to believe you aren't getting out
of there? I told you two years ago when we

(39:54):
set them up, they stay set up. Don't you listen
at all? So I don't really understand what that letter means,
but it looks like the letter writer is making out
that two of them are involved. So it's saying, I
don't know what two years ago has to do with
this person.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, now they're like almost gloating about what I told
you two years ago or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
So now you're this is when we set them up,
like when they said who when up what? So I'm
not really sure, but that to me that there's two
people involved, that's what this letter writer is making out.
But it's always been believed that there was only one writer,
one letter writer, and the letters are always written exactly
the same, so were the signs. So unless two people

(40:41):
have identical handwriting, I mean there was only one person,
you'd still be two people involved just one letter. Oh yeah,
that's they've said that, but I mean there could have
been two being involved, but there's definitely only one letter writer.
I mean, they've kind of stood by that, so there
would have to be two people involved if Paul, but

(41:02):
he was he wasn't the letter writer though, because the
letters were still getting sent out and so he even
if he was involved, he wasn't the one actually putting
benty paper, or there could be a copy cat making out.
There was always two the Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Also true because there's been that before where there's been
like a murderer and then they've charged or founder mystery
is awarning there's like a copycat killer that tries to
do the same sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Do what came out to my mind there Pretty Little Liars,
because you had the first day and then you had
the second day and then I dicking emys, there was
I remember because the first one was yeah, and then
then for the spoilers on Pretty Little Lives years old anyway, Yeah,

(41:58):
but there was more more than one. Although the person
was a all the way through it, there was more
than one, and I can think of at least four offhand. Yeah,
that it was. But we're not gonna get any Pretty
Little Liars right on Netflix? Right? Can we go back?
You can watch things that you've never seen before instead

(42:20):
of going back and watching brittle liars anyway, So Paul
served ten years for attempted murder and was released on
parole in nineteen ninety four. And for all of those
ten years people were still receiving letters. So all in all,
that had been going on for eighteen years. But strangely
the letters just stopped when Paul got out of prison,

(42:42):
and they did stop this time. I'm not sitting about
three times before they stopped. They stopped when he came
out of prison, and he maintained his innocence for the
rest of his life. But just before, just before he
was released, the TV program Unsolved Mysteries What to Do
in episode on the Circle Will letters, and they reached

(43:03):
out to, you know, people who had received them, and
like people in Circle Will, Paul included, and he agreed
to it because he wanted to get across his side
and tell people that he wasn't the writer. But and
so before they actually got to film, Unsort of Mysteries
received their own letter telling them not to come to
Circle Will. The letter read quote forget Circleville, Ohio. Do

(43:28):
nothing to hurt Sheriff Radcliffe. If you come to Ohio,
you l sickos will pay the Circle Will writer.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
End quote I mean to me, it's like, because some
of these letters obviously don't make sense now, but do
they not make sense on purpose? Like is this person
trying to come across as like stupid and writing random stuff?

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Well that's wondered, like because nobody knows who it is,
so some people are like, is it some really intelligent
person that's trying to come across?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I was at first like, was it like a school
kid or something which went back when they started? Yeah,
but I just said if it went on for yeously
grown up?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, but yeah, the letters still sound quite immature, so
you know, is only doing that on purpose? The kid
be where are we? So of course, like the Unsolved
Mysteries Crew still watch to do like you're right, like
we're going to stop. Then that letter probably just made
them even more curious. So a woman called Pam, who

(44:27):
was a family friend of Paul and Karen when they'd
been married, said that she was going to take part,
but Karen was furious and told her not to remember
Karen's Paul's x yfe. Pam still did it, but she
claimed that Karen sat across the road and watched everyone

(44:47):
who went in and wherever they were filming. She watched
everyone who went in and out with the place and
took photos of them too. So that makes you wonder
if she was taking notes for a reason about who's
taken by you know, maybe there might be her coops
with it. So remember how Paul had said that his

(45:09):
gun had been stolen and said that he'd been framed. Well,
he thought that it was his own son, Mark, who
had stolen from his mum Karen, so that she could
set Paul up. And apparently because I was like, well,
you accuse of your own son, But apparently he had
mentioned a couple of friends that his gunn had been stolen,
and that was before the instant because I was thinking, oh,

(45:31):
he's just trying to get out explaining his imagine blaming
your own son. But he'd actually mentioned it beforehand, that is,
so why would you unless he was setting that up
of course, that somebody has stolen his gun. But he
didn't tell like once he was arrested, he didn't tell
anyone that he thought his son it'd stolen because it's
his son. He didn't want to get'm in trouble her

(45:53):
loyally to his son. So his son Mark actually took
his own life in two thousand and two, and of
course the gossips of circle will wondered if you've done
it at guilt. He never visited his dad in prison,
and when a family friend asked, he said he just couldn't.
He couldn't go and visit on and Karen's like, oh,
but he suffered with depression for a long time.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
So you know, yeah, see or something like that about
the whole You know, why wouldn't you go and see
your dad in prison? I know it's not an easy
and probably situation to have because you don't going to
have to go and visit somewhere in prison. But as
your dad, and yeah, they had an all right relationship.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
But he's they've got divorced, and it looks like he's
took his mom's side and maybe if he's stolen the
gun for his mom, and how could you face your
dad after that? You know, if you've done that for
your mum, stole the gun and set your dad up,
you couldn't go and visit him in prison, could you?
So that would explain why he couldn't go with him

(46:53):
all along? Was the gun never meant to go off?
I don't know, I don't know, well, yeah, it was
supposed to go off, but then that because.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Obviously he's feeling guilty with the fact he's dad obviously
ended up in prison for attended murder. If the gun
had gone off and it had been murder, I mean,
that would have been even more years.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
What's your point? What did the point have to do
with the sun? Anyway, when Paul left prison, he went
to the FBI and asked him to investigate the case,
but the FBI never responded, but recently one of their

(47:33):
star profilers agreed to examine the Circle letters on the
TV program forty Hours. So she believes that there was
only one letter writer and she thinks they were female
pretending to be male. She examined ninety eight of the
letters and she found words in the grammar revealing She
said she thinks that the writer was not very highly educated.

(47:57):
Paul Fresher was obviously male, so she thinks it was
somebody female and he had a master's degree and it
was the manager and his job what, she you know,
had to be quite you know, intelligent for so she
doesn't think that he's the writer. The profiler also said
that the writer may have been suffering from a personality disorder,

(48:18):
and that they knew right from wrong but simply chose wrong.
So she thought in their everyday life they were probably
a bit of a bully and a bit maybe a
bit intimidating, and to people who knew Paul, that just
wasn't him. Like when when the profile profiler was asked
if she thought Paul was the writer, she said she
couldn't rule him out, but she had her doubts, and
she thinks it could well have been someone else and

(48:40):
not him.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Right, which would add up considering the letters still happened
when he was in prison and he didn't have access
to pen paper and the postmark was still from Buddy
Columbus where he wasn't in prisons.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Well, see, I don't think he is, but there is
going to be something else that's going to make you wonder.
But we'll just kill Why don't say that so interestingly?
She also thinks that the letter writer and the person
who set the booby trapper two different people. See, they
didn't necessarily have to be the same person. Everybody just
assumed that they were the same person. She doesn't think

(49:17):
that the writer would have risked exposure by setting up
a trap in such a public place. It was always
assumed that the letter writer and the booby trap setter
with the same person. But I think what she's saying
is that so like the letter writer put up the
sign because it was in the letter writer's writing letter
writers writing, but then along came someone else and set

(49:42):
the trap. But then that's quite like to set the
writer up for murder. Then how would they know, like
were they outlooking for signs like Ron had done?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Well, I mean and sees an opportunity because it's quite
a coincidence that they would know a sign was going
to be put up.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
But this has been going on for seven years, remember
regularly like most days. I think, so this person if
this person knows everything or well no, because that's not
the letter writer. But yeah, it would be easy enough
to think. See what I didn't think it is, why
is somebody not waiting for this letter writer to go
and put them up? Like why they why is the
time not taking turns and camping out where these letters

(50:25):
signs are going on?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
It would be the same bushroom, yeah that Mary takes
every time she drives the bus.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, like five days a week, So why not undercover
people like as well? The police say so the community
had done it though, Yeah, you could have easially like
just stationed yourself at certain parts. You'd think with that
many people getting letters, they'll be like coming together and say, right,
come on, we're going to find out who's doing that
figure out anyway. So yeah, so I don't think. I

(50:55):
don't know this is what she that's just her opinion.
She's just saying that she thinks that the side been up,
the persons came along and set up. I mean, this
person could know could have been watching the letter writer
for a while. They couldn't known who. They could have
figured out a long time agoing to been watching them.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Why why is Mary such the target over everybody else,
like selling on all the people in the communities had
these letters.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Why is she because they route to get her always
the target? Or what's she done had an affair regard
of Massy? Apparently I don't know. Yeah, So basically this
profile is saying that she doesn't think that Paul was
the writer, and she doesn't think that Paul is the

(51:38):
attempted murderer either. However, a handwriting expert who didn't know
the story of the letters was given forty eight letters
to examine and to compare the letters that Paul had
written to like friends in the past, and she said
that she would get up in court and swear on
the Bible that all those letters were written by one person,

(51:58):
and that one person was Paul Fresher. So you've got
a handwriting experts saying yep, and you've got a profiler
saying nope.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
But then how the hell he explained the ones when
he was in prison? Well, I don't know, but this
is the bit that was talking about earlier that we
would get to. Forty eight hours also revealed that investigators
found Paul's fingerprints on twelve of the letters which were
sent while he was in prison. So a theory is
that he wrote hundreds of letters and someone else posted.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Them while he was in prison. But why was his
fingerprints only on twelve of them? Now? Was he careless? Well? Well, yeah,
my theory isn't that. I just think for some reason,
I've got you know, you can't really accuse people. But
I'm thinking, Karen, and I'm thinking, did they have a
notepad at home that he's touched or something like that,

(52:52):
and that's why it's only on twelve of them, Like
he's maybe went through this notepad and his fingers. I mean,
she managed to match the letters, so she's not known
that his fingerprints are on it. It's just that the
letter the letters were the same handwriting before and when
Paul was in prisons. So how is so she's writing them?

(53:12):
So she writing the letters and well that's she's the
letter writer. No, I don't think he's done anything at all. Oh,
but that's why his fingerprints because it's obviously because it
was came from their house, his fingerprints could have and
they gave him one of the circle of letters to copy.
So who knows how the fingerprints could have got on them.
But they're doing stupid things like that. But yeah, and yeah,

(53:38):
if he was the writer, then they could have been careless.
But they would have to be written before he went
to prison, because those were sent out while he was
in they were received while he was in prison, before
he went to prison. That's what I just said. This
just said it, and you just repeated me. I don't

(53:58):
think he is anyway, we'll get what we're nearly done.
So yeah, I mean, as I said, like ethery is
that he wrote hundreds of letters and someone else posted
the mouse in prison. In one article that I read
on Untolved Mysteries, it's been suggested that they were at
least three letter writers, and none of them were Paul.

(54:20):
But they have they've all got the same writing, so
it can't be. But I'm just telling you what I read.
And one was believed to be the son of Gordon Massey.
Another was David Longberry, the guy who asked Mary out origin. Yeah,
he actually raped in an eleven year old girl in
nineteen o nine and he ran. He went on the
run to avoid prosecution and later committed suicide. And the other

(54:41):
was Karen. That was the three suspects. But I don't
but as I said, like, I think it's only one
person because the writingsult saying. I feel like it's between
Paul and Katon, both of them. That's what I just said.
Are you just repeating everything I'm saying. I I know
you say that, I just re saying it. I'm saying that.

(55:04):
Lou So martin Yan, who founded his own investigation firm,
actually received letters as well. But he believes that Paul
is innocent. He said, quote, I believe he was wrongly convicted,
and I have a pretty strong suspicion that he may
have been framed. I've been investigating this case on and
off for thirty years, and every time I think I
have it figured out, something else comes up, and then

(55:26):
I have to go back and start all over again.
It's just one heck of a mystery. See.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
The only thing, the only person that was surely what
a frame is the anox.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
So sorry, I was just well, I was just about
to I've got one paragraph left and then yep. So
Paul died on the twenty eighth of June twenty twelve,
when he was seventy, and as I said before, he
still denied being the writer, and even said in an
interview quote, when I'm dead and in my grave, people
are going to believe I'm sending those letters. End quote.

(55:58):
There's a letter stopping. Well, the stop when they came
out prison. So why did the stop when he came
out prison? I just think Karen, But why did they
start in the first place? Though? Unless she was having
an affair with Gardon Massie. Well, this is what I mean,
because I remember that's what I said at the start.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I was like, has somebody else had an affair with
Gardon Massie? But they don't want to be known that
it was them that had the affair? But then why
do I to all these other people though, just.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
To throw them off the scent? Maybe so that other
people are getting letters.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Maybe I don't know, but I just I feel like
I feel like she because because then I'm thinking, well,
why it was maybe targeted so much?

Speaker 1 (56:38):
And then to me it had to be or has
to be because it's someone close to her, like that's
her sister in law. Why target her more than anybody else?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Like what what what makes her so special over all
these other people in the communities that have had letters.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Maybe maybe they had some beef. They were sister in laws,
so maybe they had other beef as well. Maybe they
she didn't like her. Maybe there could be maybe she
thought that many fancied her husband, Paul, You know what
I mean. You don't know. Maybe they didn't have an affair,
so she was maybe was the one getting all the
letters and Paul was the one who was getting set up.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Maybe it was a vendetta to get them both. Yeah,
I don't somehow Ron was colaral damage.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yeah, I have no idea what happened with Paul because sorry,
like you say that he knew, he recognized the voice
the voice, so he would know, and if it was
his sister that had formed, then that would maybe explain
why he didn't actually do anything because that was his sister.
You know what, I don't know what. Maybe maybe he
fired the garden a sort of warning shot because they

(57:44):
were having a hated argument, but it wouldn't actually shoot
her because it was his sister. And then he's driving
off in such a rage. He could have been drunk,
He could have had a drink word. They could have
been like. He could have been like, look, sit with
and explain what you've been doing. So they sat and
drank and then he's went off in her rage. Yeah,
I think it's her. I do. But the only thing

(58:06):
that the only thing that it puts a slight niggle
of doubt. It's just the fingerprints on twelve of those letters.
But otherwise I might say.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
It could have easily been a pad of paper or
whatever that he's touched at some point that she's later written.
It's just a total coincidence that they found fingerprints on
on it.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Because she might not because if it.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Was Karen, she would have she would have been careful
for her own fingerprints, but not.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Probably really known. Aready on it?

Speaker 2 (58:35):
It's on it, so maybe you know, and then then
that's how it's been picked up because it's she's not
thought about it.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's her, right, that's what I think.
Do you know this is the first one that we've
actually came to said, right, that's what we think.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
But I've said, I mean, you do obviously have to
wonder the motive, but it normally it is something like
that that there's been affairs or there's been something, and
then you of the whole community thing that it does
seem weird why you would send all these letters on other people.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
But as you said, could it just be the throne
of the Senate or yeah, just so it's not only
many that's being targeted. Mary was definitely more targeted than everybody. Yes, yet,
so that's why I think it's got to be something
the doser, Yeah, because why would she be the main
target if it wasn't something directly with her? So yeah,
so I think we'll believe it at that. If anybody

(59:25):
has anything, let us know, ye and thanks for lasting, Yeah,
and we'll see next time.