May 27, 2025 • 18 mins
This discussion took a bit longer than expected so we made it into its own episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Crime divers I'm Laura and I'm Jill, and
welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Today's mysterious episode. Hello everyone, My voice candy cracked of
it there when I said Hello. No, I didn't say hello,
I said it's Jill or whatever I said kind of
cracked a bit. Anyway, Hello, Introduce yourself. My name is Jill.
I'm the host True Crime podcast. So before we get
(00:43):
into the episode, Laurel, have forgotten this last mysterious one
that we did. Can you remember what that one was?
Was that about the two girls that went mister And
what did we say at the end of that episode
that you will let them know if you found out
any information? No, you we both said that we would
(01:05):
look up theories of what happened to them. So and
what you didn't. So what's your theory? Then? What theories
did you find?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I've got a theory that you might have looked at us,
and you've got some well.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Not really to be perfully honest, right, so you know,
just to refresh everybody's memory, it was Chris Kremer's and
Lusan Frun. They were in Panama. They went for a
hike in the jungle and they were they disappeared, and
then later the parts of their bodies were fixed. Yes,
(01:39):
so I started to look and like, I actually only
remember just to and I was like, oh shit, we've
got an episode to record tomorrow, so I better have
a look. And there. It was kind of quite a
bit overwhelming because it's such a mysterious case. It was
like theories here, there, and everywhere, but a lot of
(02:00):
it was just people arguing on the internet about what
actually happened, so, you know, people being people. Yeah, so
I just didn't really know where to start. So a
lot of the theories are that the girls just got
lost and Chris had an accident and died, and then
Lisan start to death, but they're just the people that
were saying this. Didn't have any theories as to the bones,
(02:21):
like you know, how come where's the rest of their
bones and all the rest of it. So most theories
did involve the girls being murdered, right, So a lot
of them seem to think that they were murdered quite quickly,
and it was actually the murderers who used the phones
and took call those weird pictures, so it wasn't actually
them because and it's actually quite.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well still because I mean, remember that the bag was
found next to the stream, in the river whatever it was,
so to me about how that was placed there, it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah I think that was place there. But what I
was going to say was if the photos that were taken,
they weren't actually taken, the mysterious ones, the ones in
the dark, they weren't taken till I think it was
like a week after. So why were they if they
were doing it to.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Try and stage something like because we said that they
were trying to catch attention, Yeah, why was.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It a week later? Why was it not straight away?
But what I did notice was actually meant to look
this up, Emma, I forgot because you know it's me.
I think I got something wrong as well, because well,
actually I'll tell you that in a minute. Okay, So basically,
so I did see a recommendation for a podcast called
Lost in Parama, which is a deep dive into the case.
So if you're interested in finding out more info, obviously
(03:34):
that's going to have way more and more I research.
So now we get that listen, but I've written here
I think I'm going to listen to it because I'm
intrigued by this case. But I actually did listen to
the first episode last night, so the host well two
a man of women. They actually went to Panama and
retraced the girl's steps for this podcast, and from what
(03:55):
I got from the first episode, I think the theory
that they're looking at is murder. And there was one woman,
a local there that they spoke and you actually hear
it on the podcast, and she actually said that I
don't know if you remember the which you call him,
the guide, the guide Felicia I think his name was.
(04:20):
He was supposed to be taking them for a hike
the next game day, and it was actually him that
reported them missing. This woman and the local that they
spoke to said that he told her to keep her
mouth shut, that she wasn't not to speak to anybody,
which but yeah, but and what they've said is sorry.
I would have got the photos that the girls got
(04:45):
to their destination at the top of the trail wherever
they were going, and the photo proved it. It was like
one o'clock in the afternoon or something. But I'm sure
I said and that the taxi driver had said it
wasn't until later. So if I've got that wrong, I'll apologize. Yeah,
I mean, if you're said, if you're I'm going to
listen to that. I think it's like seven episodes or something.
So I just listened to the first one and I was,
(05:07):
it's really a record. It's going to be really interesting,
and it's going to have a lot more detail obviously
than what yeah, because we said.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
We tell the sort of relevant details, but we won't
go like to well we can't.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean if we went and I mean they've done
seven episodes, I mean was quite lot. You know, we
can't do seven episodes on every case that we're coming off.
So but I did know the dog Blue, Remember I said,
I didn't know who the dog belonged to. The dog
actually belonged to a local pizza restaurant owner or his
son or something like that. And Blue would go up
(05:41):
that trail every day. He would just chum anybody. Yeah,
anybody who was going up, he would just turn them up.
But he would always make sure that they came back down.
He would also come back down with him as well.
And that's the only time that he's actually came back
down without anybody with them. But it's not actually he said,
the guy who owned could Blue is Blues past now,
not that you could speak anyway, but the owner said
(06:01):
that he is not. It's not actually confirmed that Blue
went with them with Lutan and Chris is just assumed
because it came back with nobody and they were the
only ones that never came back. But yeah, if you're
interested in this case, I reckon you should go and
give this podcast a listen. But I did see one theory. Eh, sorry,
(06:24):
it's called lost in Parama just in case. Yeah, I
did see one theory on Reddit by user Adrigo seventy two,
and I don't know, they might be sort of on
the right track. So they said, I think they're English.
Isn't their first language, so I had to decipher a
couple of buits. So they think that the girls encountered
(06:44):
foul play by either being surprise or by someone of
trusting the bad people. So the trusted somebody the ship
and they were abducted. No rescue team was able to
locate them injured or uninjured, but lost the following days.
I don't know, that doesn't quite she said, No, they
(07:05):
was able to locate there as if they were lost.
So if they were, they were either killed instantly or
kept and abused for a while, then killed. Then the
perpetrators deleted the revealing picture on the computer. Because remember
there was one picture that was deleted, and then they
made ninety more in the night to distract and derail
the investigation. The girl's body bodies must have been buried
(07:27):
in a special chemical called lie. Farmers use this chemical
speed up deco composition of corpses. Since only thirty plus
bones of the girls were later found bleached and considering
the short amount of time they were exposed to the elements,
no where the decom composition has gone this far. Someone's
done it.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And then that's when it could animal have picked it
up and moved the bones around.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, the bones had no signs of abrasions or animal scavenging.
How come there was no skulls that were found and
the rest of the stuff. But there's no such big
animals in Panama that could eat a skull. That's that's
their I don't know if that's true or not. As
I said, this is I think the question is not
whether it was an accident two girls lost in a jungle,
but who killed these innocent girls. I pray that the
(08:12):
murderers will be found and brought to justice. And I
actually did read another one where they said that there's
huts along somewhere near the trail or something like that,
and they actually did mention it in the podcast as well,
that sometimes local people, if it was getting darkly, were
just going stay in the whole overnight rather than traveling
the trail in the dark. So it's thought that maybe
they've been kept there in one of the huts and
(08:35):
something's happened to them. And then I mean, what I mean,
I don't know about the the backpack is of why
was that placed? You know, if somebody had done it, murdered,
then why did they not just get rid of the evidence.
So I don't know, but I mean, I still think
it's definitely I think it's definitely been helped. And I'm
(08:59):
interested to see what this podcast. Ye now, you just
went listeners, you know, she just did there. She just went,
I think I'm gonna have to go and listen to that.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
She put her hand to her pucket. No, we've still
got a case to do exactly, but I think I'll
listened to it. I'm wondering if they's got any theories
as well, because to be honest, it's out of all
the mysterious ones that you've done. I think this one's
this one is the one that's probably gripped me the most,
just because there doesn't I think with the other mysterious
(09:31):
ones there tends to be maybe more theories. I think
that's what the problem is here. There isn't some many
theories so that you can't really kind of work out
and you're like, well, maybe this happened, but then you're like, oh,
but how did that happen? It doesn't connect, No, it
doesn't connect. But I just found it interesting that they
actually took the trail and they without going too much
because there's no point we keep going on about this
first episode. But just the last thing I'm going to
(09:52):
say is they walked up to the summit or whatever
it was, and it doesn't actually tell you that that's
it's not clear that that's the end of the trail,
So really at that bit you should turn around and
come back. But judging from the girls photographs that were
they were taking of each other and everyone, they actually
went a different way. They went down a different way,
so maybe I don't know if they were thinking that
(10:14):
it kind of looked background you go around like in
a circle kind of thing, especially.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
If they didn't have a guide, and obviously they were
out exploring. They probably just thought, oh, it's you know, yes,
we go that way, and you.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Know it should be clearly marked though, and there's not
so nice people around the exactly, and they went They
actually went down that the people in the podcast, They
went down the way that they would have went, and
it actually it was starting to get a bit dark,
so they actually turned round and went back. So with
something's happened, and they said it was quite treacherous the
(10:45):
terrain there as well, so something could have happened. But
what they can understand is if one of them got hurt,
why did the other one not go for help? Unless
they just didn't know where they were. They don't want
to leave the person or not, but they know how
to go back, the people on the podcast, and maybe
they didn't know what to leave each other. But surely
another thing is but sorry, a second episode on this one.
(11:09):
I don't know. I might just look at this as
separate the phones, right. I noticed this in the theories
as well. Why didn't the girls, as you said before,
you'd said, why did they not like send a text message?
And then it might not send straight away, but when
they got a signal that we'd all but I was thinking,
we'll be videos. Why did they not take a video
(11:29):
on the phones or on the camera and if something
had happened to them, because it's assuming that, assuming that
they didn't die straight away, and but they were lost
and they maybe were like, well, this isn't he going anywhere?
Why did they not leave a message on their phones
for these are these are these girls aren't stupid? These
(11:50):
girls are like you know, they're they're university students and
what that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Maybe it's like something that's maybe something that's happened very
quickly that they've not had an opportunity to do so
if they have been.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, But what I'm saying is if the theory of
the fact that they got lost and they were alive
for days, why haven't they if they think, right, something's
going to happen to me. I want to tell my
mum and dad or whoever what's happened. So I would
I'm not saying I would, because you don't know what
you would do, but I would. You would think that
they'd be like, look, if we find this phone, then
(12:22):
we died and this you know, Chris had an accident
and blah blah blah and sort of tell them what happened.
So that's what was making me think that maybe they
were all those times that they tried the emergency. Yeah,
but they're saying that they think the murderers did that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
But then like with the murderers smart enough to try
and dial the because their lands and they tried to
dial the emergency, surely a murderer from local to there,
have they got the brains to go and do that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I couldn't see the murders local. Well, I guess there's
that as well. But how do they know they were Dutch?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I mean, it depends what happened, Like they did they
talk very much to the accent. You know, we're able
to tell that they were from there while there were
the phone their home land emergen services.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
When they're not unless that's already in their phones, would
it be like I don't have them, I don't have
that enough phone. But like if you I've never phoned,
I'm lying. I actually have phoned the emergency services off
my phone, but I think I just telled nine nine night.
But is there something in your phone that you can
just tell emergency services, not unless you saved it. Are
you sure? I'm much sure, but I don't think so because
(13:25):
on your phone, don't you have emergency And if you've
not got a signal and it says emergency services only,
I don't know. So I'm actually just one drone. But
then the phones were manufactured in the UK, because I remember, No,
it wasn't the phone manufactured in the UK. It was
the camera that was manufactured in the UK. Oh really.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Mmm? I mean again, it's you could go into circles
because there's so many f spats and maybe isn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I'm going where I think they were murdered quite soon
or kept captain quite soon. I'm thinking if they were
still alive, I do think that they would have done
more with their phones, and that too, and why didn't
(14:18):
the phone? Because I'm sure there's a thing I should
have wrote all this down. Here's you thinking I didn't
get many theories? I'm sure. I'm sure I read something
saying that one of them, one of the phones, they
actually looked up the host family, Miriam, the Whost family,
They looked up her number on WhatsApp? But why did
they not phone her then? Because you instead of phone
(14:40):
on nine nine one one, whatever the number is not
instead of phoning them, But would that be a good
idea of try and get in contact with the host
family as well and say, look, we're lost, Like can
you send out like search and rescue?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
If you're not familiar with the country and you've got
a contact that you also familiar with in that country,
then maybe you would phone them. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
See so, but if they were if they were captured
or murdered quite quickly, that and then it would be
the murderers that were staging the rest of it, and
it would explain why the wrong pin number.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's just mental because if somebody went to all that
length to like was the actual intent of murder? Was
it just Oh, there's two girls and they've taken opportunity
or because they've.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Not at the opportunity opportunistic.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That's a lot of planning and covering to do for
something that you've maybe just done in the heat.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Of the moment. Don't you think No, No, because they
didn't plan anything, because they've just done it. They've took
an opportunity and done it, and they've had plenty of time. Seriously,
they've had plenty of time to think about what they're
going to do afterwards. M true. And I was going
to say something else, but you coffin, it's just totally
(16:03):
What was I going to say, Ah, no idea, that's
gonna bug me. I think it was something to do
with oh see, you put me off. It was gonna
be something interesting. I'm oh, nah, Actually, do you know what.
I think we'll just put this as a separate episode
(16:23):
because that's sixteen minutes. Yeah, and we want to get
on to the next episode. Maybe there might be some
of our listeners might not want to listen to this
bit like theories, because I've obviously put the title that's theories. Yes. Well,
well actually it's just Jill and Laura rambling and lot
of coffin. Yeah, very much. Well that's really bugging me.
(16:45):
What I was going to say, what did you say beforehand?
We're talking about the host family, not phone in the
host family.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And did we get past that because we're saying that
phoning about somebody that you know like makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Rather than because you're not in a familiar country. But
I was like, well, no, you were saying about staging
it and stuff. Yeah, because I'm saying there's not a
lot of effort.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If somebody, if they've just been killed in a heat
wment by somebody that's taking an opportunity, it seems like
an awful lot of you know, obviously stuff to go
on stage stuff afterwards, Like you think they were just
disposed of the.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Bodies quickly and then not have to do all that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Why did they want to make it look like that
they were trying to get help or they were you know,
looking like they were lost or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Why would the murderer want to do that?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Like, if you were a murderer, surely you just want
to you've done the murderer, surely you want to just
dispose of the bodies and cover it up.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Why why give you know, things.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Like that for people to kind of do theories of
it if it's them that's actually staged it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's still that will come back to me. I
thought that would helps, but it still come back to me. Anyway.
We'll just leave that there, And because I could probably
sit here for a good an a half hour or
something like talking about it, but let's not because our
listeners don't really want to listen to U quote rambling on.
But yeah, as I said, lost in Parama sounds like
(18:13):
as I said, I want to listen to the first episode,
but it does sound quite good, and maybe we'll get
somethings for there, and a lot of is so trying
hard not to cough. But let me just warn you now,
if you're listening to this, we're about to record the
next mysterious episode, so Lata will probably still be coughing
in that one. I'm just warning you now I have
a major, big cough in a second. Right, Okay, we'll
stop right, so thanks for listening. We'll be back in
(18:36):
a minute. Bye.
Welcome to Crime divers I'm Laura and I'm Jill, and
welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Today's mysterious episode. Hello everyone, My voice candy cracked of
it there when I said Hello. No, I didn't say hello,
I said it's Jill or whatever I said kind of
cracked a bit. Anyway, Hello, Introduce yourself. My name is Jill.
I'm the host True Crime podcast. So before we get
(00:43):
into the episode, Laurel, have forgotten this last mysterious one
that we did. Can you remember what that one was?
Was that about the two girls that went mister And
what did we say at the end of that episode
that you will let them know if you found out
any information? No, you we both said that we would
(01:05):
look up theories of what happened to them. So and
what you didn't. So what's your theory? Then? What theories
did you find?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I've got a theory that you might have looked at us,
and you've got some well.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Not really to be perfully honest, right, so you know,
just to refresh everybody's memory, it was Chris Kremer's and
Lusan Frun. They were in Panama. They went for a
hike in the jungle and they were they disappeared, and
then later the parts of their bodies were fixed. Yes,
(01:39):
so I started to look and like, I actually only
remember just to and I was like, oh shit, we've
got an episode to record tomorrow, so I better have
a look. And there. It was kind of quite a
bit overwhelming because it's such a mysterious case. It was
like theories here, there, and everywhere, but a lot of
(02:00):
it was just people arguing on the internet about what
actually happened, so, you know, people being people. Yeah, so
I just didn't really know where to start. So a
lot of the theories are that the girls just got
lost and Chris had an accident and died, and then
Lisan start to death, but they're just the people that
were saying this. Didn't have any theories as to the bones,
(02:21):
like you know, how come where's the rest of their
bones and all the rest of it. So most theories
did involve the girls being murdered, right, So a lot
of them seem to think that they were murdered quite quickly,
and it was actually the murderers who used the phones
and took call those weird pictures, so it wasn't actually
them because and it's actually quite.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well still because I mean, remember that the bag was
found next to the stream, in the river whatever it was,
so to me about how that was placed there, it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah I think that was place there. But what I
was going to say was if the photos that were taken,
they weren't actually taken, the mysterious ones, the ones in
the dark, they weren't taken till I think it was
like a week after. So why were they if they
were doing it to.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Try and stage something like because we said that they
were trying to catch attention, Yeah, why was.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It a week later? Why was it not straight away?
But what I did notice was actually meant to look
this up, Emma, I forgot because you know it's me.
I think I got something wrong as well, because well,
actually I'll tell you that in a minute. Okay, So basically,
so I did see a recommendation for a podcast called
Lost in Parama, which is a deep dive into the case.
So if you're interested in finding out more info, obviously
(03:34):
that's going to have way more and more I research.
So now we get that listen, but I've written here
I think I'm going to listen to it because I'm
intrigued by this case. But I actually did listen to
the first episode last night, so the host well two
a man of women. They actually went to Panama and
retraced the girl's steps for this podcast, and from what
(03:55):
I got from the first episode, I think the theory
that they're looking at is murder. And there was one woman,
a local there that they spoke and you actually hear
it on the podcast, and she actually said that I
don't know if you remember the which you call him,
the guide, the guide Felicia I think his name was.
(04:20):
He was supposed to be taking them for a hike
the next game day, and it was actually him that
reported them missing. This woman and the local that they
spoke to said that he told her to keep her
mouth shut, that she wasn't not to speak to anybody,
which but yeah, but and what they've said is sorry.
I would have got the photos that the girls got
(04:45):
to their destination at the top of the trail wherever
they were going, and the photo proved it. It was like
one o'clock in the afternoon or something. But I'm sure
I said and that the taxi driver had said it
wasn't until later. So if I've got that wrong, I'll apologize. Yeah,
I mean, if you're said, if you're I'm going to
listen to that. I think it's like seven episodes or something.
So I just listened to the first one and I was,
(05:07):
it's really a record. It's going to be really interesting,
and it's going to have a lot more detail obviously
than what yeah, because we said.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
We tell the sort of relevant details, but we won't
go like to well we can't.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean if we went and I mean they've done
seven episodes, I mean was quite lot. You know, we
can't do seven episodes on every case that we're coming off.
So but I did know the dog Blue, Remember I said,
I didn't know who the dog belonged to. The dog
actually belonged to a local pizza restaurant owner or his
son or something like that. And Blue would go up
(05:41):
that trail every day. He would just chum anybody. Yeah,
anybody who was going up, he would just turn them up.
But he would always make sure that they came back down.
He would also come back down with him as well.
And that's the only time that he's actually came back
down without anybody with them. But it's not actually he said,
the guy who owned could Blue is Blues past now,
not that you could speak anyway, but the owner said
(06:01):
that he is not. It's not actually confirmed that Blue
went with them with Lutan and Chris is just assumed
because it came back with nobody and they were the
only ones that never came back. But yeah, if you're
interested in this case, I reckon you should go and
give this podcast a listen. But I did see one theory. Eh, sorry,
(06:24):
it's called lost in Parama just in case. Yeah, I
did see one theory on Reddit by user Adrigo seventy two,
and I don't know, they might be sort of on
the right track. So they said, I think they're English.
Isn't their first language, so I had to decipher a
couple of buits. So they think that the girls encountered
(06:44):
foul play by either being surprise or by someone of
trusting the bad people. So the trusted somebody the ship
and they were abducted. No rescue team was able to
locate them injured or uninjured, but lost the following days.
I don't know, that doesn't quite she said, No, they
(07:05):
was able to locate there as if they were lost.
So if they were, they were either killed instantly or
kept and abused for a while, then killed. Then the
perpetrators deleted the revealing picture on the computer. Because remember
there was one picture that was deleted, and then they
made ninety more in the night to distract and derail
the investigation. The girl's body bodies must have been buried
(07:27):
in a special chemical called lie. Farmers use this chemical
speed up deco composition of corpses. Since only thirty plus
bones of the girls were later found bleached and considering
the short amount of time they were exposed to the elements,
no where the decom composition has gone this far. Someone's
done it.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And then that's when it could animal have picked it
up and moved the bones around.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, the bones had no signs of abrasions or animal scavenging.
How come there was no skulls that were found and
the rest of the stuff. But there's no such big
animals in Panama that could eat a skull. That's that's
their I don't know if that's true or not. As
I said, this is I think the question is not
whether it was an accident two girls lost in a jungle,
but who killed these innocent girls. I pray that the
(08:12):
murderers will be found and brought to justice. And I
actually did read another one where they said that there's
huts along somewhere near the trail or something like that,
and they actually did mention it in the podcast as well,
that sometimes local people, if it was getting darkly, were
just going stay in the whole overnight rather than traveling
the trail in the dark. So it's thought that maybe
they've been kept there in one of the huts and
(08:35):
something's happened to them. And then I mean, what I mean,
I don't know about the the backpack is of why
was that placed? You know, if somebody had done it, murdered,
then why did they not just get rid of the evidence.
So I don't know, but I mean, I still think
it's definitely I think it's definitely been helped. And I'm
(08:59):
interested to see what this podcast. Ye now, you just
went listeners, you know, she just did there. She just went,
I think I'm gonna have to go and listen to that.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
She put her hand to her pucket. No, we've still
got a case to do exactly, but I think I'll
listened to it. I'm wondering if they's got any theories
as well, because to be honest, it's out of all
the mysterious ones that you've done. I think this one's
this one is the one that's probably gripped me the most,
just because there doesn't I think with the other mysterious
(09:31):
ones there tends to be maybe more theories. I think
that's what the problem is here. There isn't some many
theories so that you can't really kind of work out
and you're like, well, maybe this happened, but then you're like, oh,
but how did that happen? It doesn't connect, No, it
doesn't connect. But I just found it interesting that they
actually took the trail and they without going too much
because there's no point we keep going on about this
first episode. But just the last thing I'm going to
(09:52):
say is they walked up to the summit or whatever
it was, and it doesn't actually tell you that that's
it's not clear that that's the end of the trail,
So really at that bit you should turn around and
come back. But judging from the girls photographs that were
they were taking of each other and everyone, they actually
went a different way. They went down a different way,
so maybe I don't know if they were thinking that
(10:14):
it kind of looked background you go around like in
a circle kind of thing, especially.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
If they didn't have a guide, and obviously they were
out exploring. They probably just thought, oh, it's you know, yes,
we go that way, and you.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Know it should be clearly marked though, and there's not
so nice people around the exactly, and they went They
actually went down that the people in the podcast, They
went down the way that they would have went, and
it actually it was starting to get a bit dark,
so they actually turned round and went back. So with
something's happened, and they said it was quite treacherous the
(10:45):
terrain there as well, so something could have happened. But
what they can understand is if one of them got hurt,
why did the other one not go for help? Unless
they just didn't know where they were. They don't want
to leave the person or not, but they know how
to go back, the people on the podcast, and maybe
they didn't know what to leave each other. But surely
another thing is but sorry, a second episode on this one.
(11:09):
I don't know. I might just look at this as
separate the phones, right. I noticed this in the theories
as well. Why didn't the girls, as you said before,
you'd said, why did they not like send a text message?
And then it might not send straight away, but when
they got a signal that we'd all but I was thinking,
we'll be videos. Why did they not take a video
(11:29):
on the phones or on the camera and if something
had happened to them, because it's assuming that, assuming that
they didn't die straight away, and but they were lost
and they maybe were like, well, this isn't he going anywhere?
Why did they not leave a message on their phones
for these are these are these girls aren't stupid? These
(11:50):
girls are like you know, they're they're university students and
what that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Maybe it's like something that's maybe something that's happened very
quickly that they've not had an opportunity to do so
if they have been.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, But what I'm saying is if the theory of
the fact that they got lost and they were alive
for days, why haven't they if they think, right, something's
going to happen to me. I want to tell my
mum and dad or whoever what's happened. So I would
I'm not saying I would, because you don't know what
you would do, but I would. You would think that
they'd be like, look, if we find this phone, then
(12:22):
we died and this you know, Chris had an accident
and blah blah blah and sort of tell them what happened.
So that's what was making me think that maybe they
were all those times that they tried the emergency. Yeah,
but they're saying that they think the murderers did that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
But then like with the murderers smart enough to try
and dial the because their lands and they tried to
dial the emergency, surely a murderer from local to there,
have they got the brains to go and do that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I couldn't see the murders local. Well, I guess there's
that as well. But how do they know they were Dutch?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I mean, it depends what happened, Like they did they
talk very much to the accent. You know, we're able
to tell that they were from there while there were
the phone their home land emergen services.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
When they're not unless that's already in their phones, would
it be like I don't have them, I don't have
that enough phone. But like if you I've never phoned,
I'm lying. I actually have phoned the emergency services off
my phone, but I think I just telled nine nine night.
But is there something in your phone that you can
just tell emergency services, not unless you saved it. Are
you sure? I'm much sure, but I don't think so because
(13:25):
on your phone, don't you have emergency And if you've
not got a signal and it says emergency services only,
I don't know. So I'm actually just one drone. But
then the phones were manufactured in the UK, because I remember, No,
it wasn't the phone manufactured in the UK. It was
the camera that was manufactured in the UK. Oh really.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Mmm? I mean again, it's you could go into circles
because there's so many f spats and maybe isn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I'm going where I think they were murdered quite soon
or kept captain quite soon. I'm thinking if they were
still alive, I do think that they would have done
more with their phones, and that too, and why didn't
(14:18):
the phone? Because I'm sure there's a thing I should
have wrote all this down. Here's you thinking I didn't
get many theories? I'm sure. I'm sure I read something
saying that one of them, one of the phones, they
actually looked up the host family, Miriam, the Whost family,
They looked up her number on WhatsApp? But why did
they not phone her then? Because you instead of phone
(14:40):
on nine nine one one, whatever the number is not
instead of phoning them, But would that be a good
idea of try and get in contact with the host
family as well and say, look, we're lost, Like can
you send out like search and rescue?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
If you're not familiar with the country and you've got
a contact that you also familiar with in that country,
then maybe you would phone them. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
See so, but if they were if they were captured
or murdered quite quickly, that and then it would be
the murderers that were staging the rest of it, and
it would explain why the wrong pin number.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's just mental because if somebody went to all that
length to like was the actual intent of murder? Was
it just Oh, there's two girls and they've taken opportunity
or because they've.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Not at the opportunity opportunistic.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That's a lot of planning and covering to do for
something that you've maybe just done in the heat.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Of the moment. Don't you think No, No, because they
didn't plan anything, because they've just done it. They've took
an opportunity and done it, and they've had plenty of time. Seriously,
they've had plenty of time to think about what they're
going to do afterwards. M true. And I was going
to say something else, but you coffin, it's just totally
(16:03):
What was I going to say, Ah, no idea, that's
gonna bug me. I think it was something to do
with oh see, you put me off. It was gonna
be something interesting. I'm oh, nah, Actually, do you know what.
I think we'll just put this as a separate episode
(16:23):
because that's sixteen minutes. Yeah, and we want to get
on to the next episode. Maybe there might be some
of our listeners might not want to listen to this
bit like theories, because I've obviously put the title that's theories. Yes. Well,
well actually it's just Jill and Laura rambling and lot
of coffin. Yeah, very much. Well that's really bugging me.
(16:45):
What I was going to say, what did you say beforehand?
We're talking about the host family, not phone in the
host family.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And did we get past that because we're saying that
phoning about somebody that you know like makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Rather than because you're not in a familiar country. But
I was like, well, no, you were saying about staging
it and stuff. Yeah, because I'm saying there's not a
lot of effort.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If somebody, if they've just been killed in a heat
wment by somebody that's taking an opportunity, it seems like
an awful lot of you know, obviously stuff to go
on stage stuff afterwards, Like you think they were just
disposed of the.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Bodies quickly and then not have to do all that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Why did they want to make it look like that
they were trying to get help or they were you know,
looking like they were lost or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Why would the murderer want to do that?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Like, if you were a murderer, surely you just want
to you've done the murderer, surely you want to just
dispose of the bodies and cover it up.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Why why give you know, things.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Like that for people to kind of do theories of
it if it's them that's actually staged it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's still that will come back to me. I
thought that would helps, but it still come back to me. Anyway.
We'll just leave that there, And because I could probably
sit here for a good an a half hour or
something like talking about it, but let's not because our
listeners don't really want to listen to U quote rambling on.
But yeah, as I said, lost in Parama sounds like
(18:13):
as I said, I want to listen to the first episode,
but it does sound quite good, and maybe we'll get
somethings for there, and a lot of is so trying
hard not to cough. But let me just warn you now,
if you're listening to this, we're about to record the
next mysterious episode, so Lata will probably still be coughing
in that one. I'm just warning you now I have
a major, big cough in a second. Right, Okay, we'll
stop right, so thanks for listening. We'll be back in
(18:36):
a minute. Bye.
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