October 23, 2024 • 65 mins
A true crime collaboration with the insightful and kind, Nina Innsted, creator and host of the Already Gone podcast. Together we explore the intricate world of missing persons cases, the truth about the rise of disturbing social media scams exploiting missing persons, grim realities faced by families of missing and murdered loved ones, and the critical need to strengthen resources and data to tell the whole story.
Nina covers The Great Lakes region on Already Gone so, as I do, I learned a bit about the area and, well, it is incredible (you can find me rabbit holing aboutthe phenomenon of Great Lakes' shipwrecks).
As October marks Domestic Violence Awareness Month, our conversation takes a close look at the intersection of domestic violence and missing persons and the risks involved for people who are fleeing abusive situations and the need for discretion to protect them and their escape. We discuss the unique challenges for individuals leading non-traditional lifestyles, who are most vulnerable.
We share important resources for anyone who may experience a missing person in their family or circle.
With contributions from fellow podcasters and advocates, this episode is a compelling call to action for greater understanding and support in missing persons cases. More information and resources at CrimeoftheTruestKind.com episode page, and how to follow Nina's work through the Almost Gone podcast and the Missing in Michigan Facebook group.
Nina Innsted
@ninainnsted
@almostgonepod
Missing In Michigan Facebook group
Episode 73: Missing Person Stories, Scams & Support with Nina Innsted of Already Gone podcast
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This podcast has minimal profanity but from time to time you get one or some curse words. This isn't for kids.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anngelle Wood (00:00):
Well, hello, my name is Anngelle Wood, and this
is Crime of the Truest Kind.
Something I have planned inthis new season of the show is
(00:30):
collaboration.
Last week I dropped a bonusepisode in the feed from a show
I guested on over the summerwith UK friends, the Red Rabbit
Hole.
We talked about one of the mostnotorious cases in
Massachusetts, because crime ishistory and sometimes history is
(00:50):
crime.
We talked about the Bordens ofFall River.
We talked about the case and dida mock retrial of sorts on the
guilt or innocence of LizzieBorden Spoiler.
She was acquitted On thisweek's show.
A special collaboration withNina Innsted, the creator and
(01:13):
host of Alrmost Gone, thepodcast.
About Nina.
She is a Michigan native,podcast host, victims advocate,
as well as an administrator forthe Missing in Michigan Facebook
group.
It is a large group with amembership totaling more than
135,000.
Now Nina is well versed inmissing persons cases.
(01:37):
She recently appeared on anotherpodcast called Mind Over Murder
with Bill Thomas, anotherMassachusetts person, and
co-host, Kristen Dilley, wherethey talked about missing person
scams and I learned a greatdeal of new information about
what goes right and wrong whensomebody becomes a missing
person.
I first met Nina last year whenI attended my first True Crime
(02:03):
Podcast Festival in Austin,Texas.
Incidentally, that is alsowhere I first met Bill Thomas.
We bonded over Massachusettsand radio, a story for another
time.
Nina was one of the firstpeople I met at that conference
- me, the newbie podcaster,totally out of my element of
loud rock and roll shows where Iknow almost everyone in that
(02:26):
room.
This was all new territory andNina was so kind and so helpful
from the first moment I walkedover to her holding a plate of
hummus and carrots, probably, ata podcast host mixer.
In this episode, we cover a lotof territory, including this
phenomenon of missing personscams and what they become.
(02:48):
We talk about the starkrealities families face when a
loved one goes missing,challenges in law enforcement's
response and all the barriersthat exist.
Now about Nina.
Her podcast, Already Gone,began in 2016 and covers often
lesser known true crime cases inthe Great Lakes area.
(03:10):
And because I aim to learnsomething on every show, and I
hope you do too.
What are the Great Lakes?
I live in Massachusetts.
We have beautiful lakes and theocean, but the Great Lakes,
they're something.
Lake Superior, Lake Michigan,Lake Huron, Lake Erie and Lake
(03:33):
Ontario those- those five lakesand their connecting channels
form the largest fresh surfacewater system on Earth.
Those rivers and dams thatconnect them create an entire
system about the size of theUnited Kingdom and France
combined.
Eight states border the GreatLakes.
Do you know them?
(03:53):
It's not a test - Illinois,Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota,
New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania,Wisconsin.
What else I learned about theGreat Lakes?
There are a lot of shipwrecks,thousands of shipwrecks.
Exact number is unknown, withsome estimates saying 6,000 to
(04:15):
10,000 well-preserved wrecks inthe cold and fresh water,
keeping many of them intactbelow the surface.
Now, I had heard about this,but now I'm fascinated and the
photos I've seen are incredible.
And now I want to go to theGreat Shipwreck Museum in a
place called Paradise, Michiganin the Upper Peninsula, the UP
(04:38):
as it's known.
I've heard.
I had old friends from there.
Now I could go on for about anhour about how awesome the Great
Lakes are now that I've beenobsessively looking at
shipwrecks in the beautifulwater of the Great Lakes, I'll
rabbit hole on my own time.
We toss around a lot of namesin this conversation - fellow
(04:59):
podcasters, some family membersof missing and murdered people,
various cases, events, advocatesand the like, all of which I
list on the show notes and inthe episode notes at
CrimeOfTheTruestKind.
com.
You can follow Nina onlineNinaInstead.
com.
It's I-N-N-S-T-E-D, @ NinaInstead on Instagram.
(05:25):
The Missing in MichiganFacebook group is linked in the
notes.
You can also search for it -Missing in Michigan.
Already Gone, is on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music,
you know all the places youchoose to listen to your stories
.
Follow Already Gone Pod onFacebook and Instagram.
This is episode 73.
(05:47):
Don't go missing in America.
Al right.
So I like to share some .
Or or data.
I say it different every time.
Blackandmissinginc.
com says in 2023, missingpersons under the age of 18, 53%
(06:11):
were identified as white,including Hispanic.
40% identified as AfricanAmerican, 4% identified as Asian
and Indian, 3% unknown.
50% of missing persons arelabeled female, 50% labeled male
.
I mean that kind of does throwa wrench in.
It's only ladies that disappear.
(06:32):
I don't mean to be smug, but itis a true crime trope.
According to the NationalMissing and Unidentified Persons
Database, also known as NamUs,which is funded by the US
Department of Justice, more than600,000 people go missing every
year.
Approximately 4,400unidentified people are
recovered each year.
(06:52):
Nationwide, there are roughly6.5 missing persons per 100,000
people.
In a Newsweek report, roughly2,300 Americans are reported
missing every day.
In Newsweek's reporting fromFebruary 2024, they say Oklahoma
has the largest percentage ofmissing people in America, with
(07:14):
16 per 100,000 residents,arizona, with 14.2.
On the West Coast, just behindthat, is Oregon, with 12.5 per
100,000 people, followed byWashington State at 10.8.
California has 8.6.
Followed by Washington State at10.8.
California has 8.6.
(07:35):
So, comparatively speaking, newEngland states have some of the
lowest in the US my home stateof Massachusetts 2.7, followed
by the smallest state in theUnion, rhode Island, at 2.6.
And the Great Lakes states alsohave some of the lowest
Wisconsin, illinois, indiana 3.3per 100,000.
Michigan, neenah State, has sixper every 100,000 residents,
(08:00):
but there is no federalrequirement for reporting to
NamUs.
Dr Jesse Goliath from theMississippi Repository for
Missing and Unidentified Personstold Newsweek that the real
figures are higher than thefederal statistics show.
So what they're saying is,without mandatory reporting by
law enforcement, the number ofactual missing persons state by
(08:23):
state is actually much higherthan this data is telling us, or
data.
Nina and I are going to cover alot of ground coming up next in
our conversation.
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(08:46):
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(09:08):
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At CrimeOfTheTruestKind.
com.
I learned pretty quickly when Istarted to meet people and
(09:28):
really the biggest aha momentwas going to the festival,
looking around and getting asense of what's happening, what
people are like, who have beendoing this for a little while,
and then I started to meetpeople.
You know, I started to meetfamilies and hearing from
families and that that waseverything.
Nina Innsted (09:48):
Yeah, that was truly everything.
It gives you a lot ofperspective.
Anngelle Wood (09:50):
It sure does.
How did it start for you,because you've been at it for
quite a bit.
Nina Innsted (09:57):
So in 2015, my daughter developed agoraphobia,
which means she didn't want toleave the house.
She was eight or nine andwouldn't go to school.
I couldn't leave her home alonebecause she was too little.
So I had to quit my job, whichI was fine with.
I was ready to leave teachingand stay home with her and I was
(10:18):
listening to podcasts so that Iwouldn't go crazy from a lack
of adult content you know adultinteraction and called my
husband one day and he's like,how's it going?
And I'm like, oh, it's allright, you know what?
I think I want to start apodcast.
And he came home with amicrophone A few months later I
(10:38):
started the podcast.
Anngelle Wood (10:38):
What brought you to this format?
What was it about crime thatattracted you?
Nina Innsted (10:48):
I'm dating myself here, but when I was a little
girl, like a toddler, theOakland County child killer was
killing kids in Oakland Countywhere I lived and took a girl
from my neighborhood.
So there's always been thisstranger danger serial killer
vibe, and he was never caught.
My whole life has beenwondering who the Oakland County
child killer is.
(11:09):
So I've always been interestedin true crime and then growing
up my mom always had the pulpnovels you know, the true crime
ripped from the headlines,paperbacks laying around.
So I did a lot of reading.
Anngelle Wood (11:23):
My beloved Nana, who lived well into her 90s,
smoked like a fiend from whenshe was about 12 years of age.
So I don't know what magic wasinside her, but she used to read
those very graphic detectivemagazines.
Nina Innsted (11:37):
Yeah.
Anngelle Wood (11:38):
And I was a little girl looking over her
shoulder, going I don't knowwhat's happening, but to say I
liked it is seems really morbid,but something stuck.
Nina Innsted (11:49):
Yeah.
Anngelle Wood (11:50):
But my parents didn't seem to have it, or did
they know, who knows?
They didn't have anyreservation, with my Nana
reading these very graphicmagazines.
Yeah, I blame my Nana for atleast planting the seed.
And then it just grew and grewand grew until you know, before
we even knew what true crime was.
Nina Innsted (12:11):
Right.
Anngelle Wood (12:12):
You know we talk about what's big in the news
right now.
There's this new interest inthe Menendez brothers case.
That was true crime.
When that was going on, youknow, when his, when the parents
were murdered by the boys, theydid it People were fascinated
because it was true crime, butwe didn't know what true crime
was.
Nina Innsted (12:29):
Yeah, I remember leaving work to go home and
watch the OJ Simpson verdictcome in.
Anngelle Wood (12:34):
I remember that was bananas.
Yeah, Absolutely bananas.
Let's talk about the missingpersons scams that are cropping
up online.
When I heard your episode withBill and Kristen from Mind Over
Murder, I was like these are thethings.
Nina Innsted (12:54):
I've been talking about People.
Anngelle Wood (12:56):
When you say something to someone and say,
hey, careful, I've gottenpushback from people when they
say, well, I think their familywould really want them found,
and I would gently say,sometimes I would respond and
say, yes, they certainly would.
However, or this child wasmissing and has been located,
(13:20):
this photograph you're passingaround.
I love that you're caring aboutthis missing child.
This child has since been found, about six months ago, and I
didn't know all of those thingsthat you explained that it's the
bait and switch and who iswho's baiting and what they're
(13:41):
switching, because I know thatyou run Missing in Michigan.
Yeah, I run the online, thatamazing resource for people in
the area.
How soon did you figure it outthat this was a game?
Nina Innsted (13:56):
I didn't realize what people were doing.
I just knew they weren't realposts.
You know, the first thing Ilook for is police contact
information or a phone number ofany kind.
Generally these were beingposted with no date, no phone
number and no way to get intouch with someone.
(14:16):
It was just like a panickedflood.
Your feeds, you know, sharewidely, share this post, and
over the last almost six yearsI've seen hundreds, if not
thousands, of missing personsposts.
So I know what they're supposedto look like and I know how the
originating they're supposed tolook like and I know how the
originating poster is supposedto be acting.
(14:39):
And not everybody acts the same.
But you know there's a prettystandard set of things to look
for and I just wasn't seeingthem.
So I'm like this isn't this,doesn't.
This just doesn't seem right.
And then I try and track down.
You know I would message theperson or look at their profile
and go that's a fake profile.
So I would just know we'redeleting it, that's not
(15:00):
legitimate.
But then I realized what theywere doing is they were creating
these posts of a missing childor a found dog or a missing
grandpa and getting people toshare them widely, and then the
post would suddenly convert toproperty for rent or for sale or
an office availability, youknow, some sort of sales related
(15:21):
post.
And it's just so disappointingthat people take advantage of
people's good nature and peoplewanting to help with something
like that.
Anngelle Wood (15:30):
People just don't understand.
They don't understand what's atstake like that.
People just don't understand.
They don't understand what's atstake.
You see them in yard sale postsMissing dog and I have five
dogs so I'm very concerned.
And then you think, hmm, whyare they posting this in a yard
(15:51):
sale page?
Because it's going to turn intosomething else.
You know.
Nothing tugs at yourheartstrings like somebody's
missing little child.
Nina Innsted (15:56):
Exactly, you worry , we worry about kids.
I you know, look out for otherpeople's kids all the time, as
people should.
So when you see that a child ismissing, it strikes at the
heart of you and you're like, oh, I've got to help, I've got to
share this, do what I can tosupport this family in an
upsetting time and then to beduped by some scammer who's
(16:18):
looking to sell something isjust gross.
Anngelle Wood (16:21):
It's abominable, but that's the nature of,
unfortunately, the internet, ashas been evidenced.
I'm sure, throughout yourcourse, your journey into true
crime and advocacy your journeyinto true crime and advocacy,
which is a big driver for youand is a big driver for me, as
(16:41):
I'm learning you want to do asmany of the right things as you
possibly can to help families,and I recently had an interview
with a family member of a womanwho went missing and they found
deceased and unsolved.
I'm hoping to support thatfamily more, but what I learned
about their case and so manyothers is they have absolutely
(17:06):
no idea what to do, how to do it, who to reach out to.
They knew this family inparticular.
No-transcript, and their localpolice department says she's 23
(17:47):
years old.
no, we're not going to take areport which is so frustrating
have we not moved on from thatplace where police officers tell
family members you have to waitbefore we'll accept a report?
Is that still happening?
Nina Innsted (18:04):
So in my experience, I've worked with a
lot of police departments andI'm on the phone with the police
several times a week, you know,because I'll get a missing
persons report and then I'll andlet them know that I've got a
post on Facebook that they'rewelcome to share, that we're
getting the person out on socialmedia, and it really varies
(18:28):
from department to department.
The reaction I get Sometimesit's oh my gosh, great thanks
for helping, and other timesit's like I'm not even going to
tell you that there's a missingpersons report, it's none of
your business.
So the culture at variouspolice departments determines
the reaction they're going toget, that a family is going to
get when they file a report orattempt to file a report that
(18:51):
comes from the leadership of thedepartment.
Anngelle Wood (18:54):
There's no rule among police forces at anywhere.
They can decide whether theywill or they won't.
Yeah, the question came up whenyou were saying that Nina was.
Is that also the case with amissing person who gets added
into, say, one of the databases,one of the clearinghouses for
(19:15):
missing folks?
It's something that, as Iunderstand it, law enforcement
has to do, that A family membercan't go to NamUs and add their
loved one, correct?
Nina Innsted (19:27):
As far as I know, namus cannot be edited by just
anyone.
Best practice would be for alaw enforcement agency, after
someone's been missing for 7 to14 days, that they would go and
enter the person into NamUs.
Now you look at a smallerdepartment where they don't have
missing persons, but once everycouple of years they may not
(19:49):
even know what to do.
I believe they can reach out toNamUs and get support in keying
their person in, but as far asI know there is no uniformity
from state to state, county tocounty whether or not someone
gets keyed in to NamUs.
I have also had the experienceof calling a department here in
(20:09):
Georgia where they have amissing person listed like a
long-term missing on theirdepartment webpage and me
calling to ask about it and themgoing.
We don't have any missingpersons.
What are you talking aboutabout it and them going?
We don't have any missingpersons.
What are you talking about?
So again, it comes down to theculture of the department and
(20:31):
then also the experiences of thedepartment.
I expect Atlanta PD to do amuch better job at keying people
into NamUs than I would alittle two-car department in
rural Georgia to car departmentin rural Georgia.
Anngelle Wood (20:47):
One of the things I want to do with this
conversation is help arm peoplewith the information, the steps
that they can take.
Now, of course, you have saidall law enforcement
organizations are differentlocal versus some of the state,
police, etc.
What are some of the basicthings we can arm people with on
how to do this?
Now I know that you have saidbe very careful of sharing your
(21:11):
own personal contact informationbecause of the nature of the
internet and people will calland say, oh, I have them, but
you have to give me money.
That happens, unfortunatelythat's called extortion Against
the law.
Nina Innsted (21:29):
Still happens.
Anngelle Wood (21:33):
Still happens all the time.
If I were, to say, make aninfographic of some of the steps
that an average citizen whofinds that they're in this
situation, what are the firstthree, four, five steps that we
can guide them with in yourexperience?
Nina Innsted (21:51):
So the first thing you should do is notify law
enforcement, make a call to lawenforcement or, better yet, go
into the station and file areport.
If they will not take a reportif it's a city department, go to
the county.
Ask the county sheriff to makea report.
If they will not take a reportif it's a city department, go to
the county.
Ask the county sheriff to makea report.
If the county sheriff won'ttake it, go to the state police.
Your loved one is missing.
(22:11):
This is out-of-characterbehavior for them.
If they are a child or a senioror medically compromised, you
don't have to wait 24 hours.
If they are missing, they aremissing.
You need to get on the radar oflaw enforcement as soon as
possible.
You need to cast a wide net,which means calling everyone you
(22:32):
know and asking have you seenthis person?
Have you seen this person?
Social media is great forgetting the word out.
You should have a person's name, a good photo, date and
location last seen and the bestway to contact law enforcement.
Or, if you have to contactyourself, you can create a quick
(22:54):
email address.
You know missinggenie123 atgmailcom.
You don't have to put yourphone number out there.
It's not safe to put your phonenumber out there.
Even on Facebook, there will bepeople that don't respect
boundaries and just want tomessage you to get the scoop.
They just want to get thelowdown and I find that really
(23:17):
irritating because it's wastingthe person's time Getting the
word out to law enforcement,calling all of your contacts to
see if they have had any contactwith your missing person and
using social media judiciouslyto get the word out about your
missing person.
There are organizations likeMissing in Michigan, in several
(23:38):
states, in several regions, likethe city of Toledo in Ohio.
It's not very big but there isa Toledo missing persons page.
Angie who runs that isfantastic.
There are neighborhood groupsthat you can make your post in.
I would not use the yard salegroup, but most communities have
a Facebook group that you canmake a post in.
Anngelle Wood (23:59):
One of the things that has come up for me and I
have gotten some pushback onlineand I'm sure you have a great
deal of experience in thisregard Somebody goes missing.
There is a pretty big swell ofinformation People are
distributing that this personwas last seen on the side of the
(24:21):
road.
Person was last seen on theside of the road.
This is the only information weknow.
They're missing.
Get the call out and they arereported to the area law
enforcement agency and lawenforcement is a part of this
and there becomes such like agroundswell of information about
this missing person and thenthe missing person is located,
(24:43):
whether it be they're found andthey're injured or not.
The public then has a lot ofquestions.
Yes, what I try to say topeople when they're like what
happened?
What happened?
I say very unpopular thingslike we don't have a right to
know what happened after this ifthe family doesn't want us to
(25:07):
know.
There comes a place where thefamily can say no more, no,
we're not going to make comments, or the police, can you know
the law enforcement will sharepossibly a statement from the
family that says please respectour privacy, we're dealing with
this, no other information isgoing to come out.
Nina Innsted (25:26):
And I fully support that.
I often know the circumstancesof how someone was found, if
they were taken into custody, ifthey were found in hospital, if
they were found as an angel, ifthey just showed up back at
home.
The two things you need to knowis that they were found safe or
they were found as an angel,and other than that, it's really
(25:46):
up to the family what, ifanything, they would like to
share.
Anngelle Wood (26:04):
You don't have a right to know.
We don't have a right to knowanything that happened beyond
what may have already come outand then the sleuths pick that
up and oftentimes can make thecase worse for the family
members.
But I've tried to say that insome instances where we may
never know, we know this personis safe and back with their
families.
We may never know when it comesto children particularly.
(26:25):
I want to wipe all that out.
Nina Innsted (26:27):
But if it isn't adults.
So I totally get wanting toknow.
I want to know.
I've had people go missing inthe families, just like we found
them.
They're safe.
You can take it down and I'mlike super curious, but it's not
my business.
I did my part.
I was a good neighbor, a goodcommunity member, and that's it.
You're not entitled to thedetails.
(26:49):
I get that that's frustratingand I get that we have a natural
curiosity or we get invested inthe story.
But it's not our right to know,but it is that person's right
to privacy, the desire to know.
I get being curious, I getbeing invested, but the best
course of action is to respectthe wishes of the family.
Anngelle Wood (27:11):
We truly don't know what's going to happen to
that family after that.
Again, we don't have to know,we don't have a right to know,
but that family could be goingthrough a whole nother
experience, whether it's they'rein the hospital and that person
is injured or worse, and theyjust don't want to flood the
(27:33):
Internet sphere with any moreinformation because at that
point they're trying to protectthat person.
Hopefully.
Nina Innsted (27:38):
Well, or the person checked themselves into
rehab and didn't tell theirfamily, or the person is fleeing
a domestic violence situation,and sharing the status of where
they are or how they were foundcould put them back in danger.
It's better to just be gratefulthat they were found and let it
go.
Anngelle Wood (27:57):
You raised some very important points.
It wasn't a traditionaldisappearance, we'll say, if
there's such thing as atraditional, they weren't
kidnapped, they didn'ttemporarily lose their memory.
(28:21):
Something very serious was isto try to escape a domestic
violence situation.
Time is of the essence forfolks and leaving.
I mean it is October, it isDomestic Violence Awareness
Month.
We should really talk aboutthis.
Nina Innsted (28:36):
Yes.
Anngelle Wood (28:36):
We should be shouting this from the rooftops
that how truly dangerous it isfor someone in an abusive
situation to leave.
It's the most dangerous timeand if they decide they're going
to slip out under the radar andit becomes a very big public
thing.
(28:56):
Keeping that information quietafter the fact probably becomes
that much more difficultinformation quiet after the fact
probably becomes that much moredifficult.
Nina Innsted (29:09):
Well, and that's another reason why it's really
important to have a policereport and a police contact,
because that way you know thatthe person who's looking for the
missing person is acting ingood faith.
Anngelle Wood (29:16):
Another great point to add to it that abuser
could be the one who's floodingthe information right?
That didn't even really occurto me until right about now.
Maybe that person that is likethis person's missing call me.
I need to know immediately.
They could be the one that'shunting them down.
Lack of a more appropriate term.
Nina Innsted (29:37):
Yeah, that's trying to track the person down,
absolutely.
The other thing that I tellfamilies and I come across this
more often than you think issomeone who lives a
non-traditional lifestyle.
Maybe they're transient, maybethey're struggling with
addiction, maybe they'reestranged from their family, but
they have a friend or a networkof friends that they're close
(29:59):
with, that they keep in contactwith.
These people go missing andpeople that are unhoused go
missing and people that haveaddiction issues go missing and
people that have warrants gomissing.
It's not uncommon and I wouldnever turn away someone who was
missing just because of theirlifestyle or their background,
(30:20):
and I get it.
Well, hello, my name is Anngelle Wood, and this
is Crime of the Truest Kind.
Something I have planned inthis new season of the show is
(00:30):
collaboration.
Last week I dropped a bonusepisode in the feed from a show
I guested on over the summerwith UK friends, the Red Rabbit
Hole.
We talked about one of the mostnotorious cases in
Massachusetts, because crime ishistory and sometimes history is
(00:50):
crime.
We talked about the Bordens ofFall River.
We talked about the case and dida mock retrial of sorts on the
guilt or innocence of LizzieBorden Spoiler.
She was acquitted On thisweek's show.
A special collaboration withNina Innsted, the creator and
(01:13):
host of Alrmost Gone, thepodcast.
About Nina.
She is a Michigan native,podcast host, victims advocate,
as well as an administrator forthe Missing in Michigan Facebook
group.
It is a large group with amembership totaling more than
135,000.
Now Nina is well versed inmissing persons cases.
(01:37):
She recently appeared on anotherpodcast called Mind Over Murder
with Bill Thomas, anotherMassachusetts person, and
co-host, Kristen Dilley, wherethey talked about missing person
scams and I learned a greatdeal of new information about
what goes right and wrong whensomebody becomes a missing
person.
I first met Nina last year whenI attended my first True Crime
(02:03):
Podcast Festival in Austin,Texas.
Incidentally, that is alsowhere I first met Bill Thomas.
We bonded over Massachusettsand radio, a story for another
time.
Nina was one of the firstpeople I met at that conference
- me, the newbie podcaster,totally out of my element of
loud rock and roll shows where Iknow almost everyone in that
(02:26):
room.
This was all new territory andNina was so kind and so helpful
from the first moment I walkedover to her holding a plate of
hummus and carrots, probably, ata podcast host mixer.
In this episode, we cover a lotof territory, including this
phenomenon of missing personscams and what they become.
(02:48):
We talk about the starkrealities families face when a
loved one goes missing,challenges in law enforcement's
response and all the barriersthat exist.
Now about Nina.
Her podcast, Already Gone,began in 2016 and covers often
lesser known true crime cases inthe Great Lakes area.
(03:10):
And because I aim to learnsomething on every show, and I
hope you do too.
What are the Great Lakes?
I live in Massachusetts.
We have beautiful lakes and theocean, but the Great Lakes,
they're something.
Lake Superior, Lake Michigan,Lake Huron, Lake Erie and Lake
(03:33):
Ontario those- those five lakesand their connecting channels
form the largest fresh surfacewater system on Earth.
Those rivers and dams thatconnect them create an entire
system about the size of theUnited Kingdom and France
combined.
Eight states border the GreatLakes.
Do you know them?
(03:53):
It's not a test - Illinois,Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota,
New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania,Wisconsin.
What else I learned about theGreat Lakes?
There are a lot of shipwrecks,thousands of shipwrecks.
Exact number is unknown, withsome estimates saying 6,000 to
(04:15):
10,000 well-preserved wrecks inthe cold and fresh water,
keeping many of them intactbelow the surface.
Now, I had heard about this,but now I'm fascinated and the
photos I've seen are incredible.
And now I want to go to theGreat Shipwreck Museum in a
place called Paradise, Michiganin the Upper Peninsula, the UP
(04:38):
as it's known.
I've heard.
I had old friends from there.
Now I could go on for about anhour about how awesome the Great
Lakes are now that I've beenobsessively looking at
shipwrecks in the beautifulwater of the Great Lakes, I'll
rabbit hole on my own time.
We toss around a lot of namesin this conversation - fellow
(04:59):
podcasters, some family membersof missing and murdered people,
various cases, events, advocatesand the like, all of which I
list on the show notes and inthe episode notes at
CrimeOfTheTruestKind.
com.
You can follow Nina onlineNinaInstead.
com.
It's I-N-N-S-T-E-D, @ NinaInstead on Instagram.
(05:25):
The Missing in MichiganFacebook group is linked in the
notes.
You can also search for it -Missing in Michigan.
Already Gone, is on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music,
you know all the places youchoose to listen to your stories
.
Follow Already Gone Pod onFacebook and Instagram.
This is episode 73.
(05:47):
Don't go missing in America.
Al right.
So I like to share some .
Or or data.
I say it different every time.
Blackandmissinginc.
com says in 2023, missingpersons under the age of 18, 53%
(06:11):
were identified as white,including Hispanic.
40% identified as AfricanAmerican, 4% identified as Asian
and Indian, 3% unknown.
50% of missing persons arelabeled female, 50% labeled male
.
I mean that kind of does throwa wrench in.
It's only ladies that disappear.
(06:32):
I don't mean to be smug, but itis a true crime trope.
According to the NationalMissing and Unidentified Persons
Database, also known as NamUs,which is funded by the US
Department of Justice, more than600,000 people go missing every
year.
Approximately 4,400unidentified people are
recovered each year.
(06:52):
Nationwide, there are roughly6.5 missing persons per 100,000
people.
In a Newsweek report, roughly2,300 Americans are reported
missing every day.
In Newsweek's reporting fromFebruary 2024, they say Oklahoma
has the largest percentage ofmissing people in America, with
(07:14):
16 per 100,000 residents,arizona, with 14.2.
On the West Coast, just behindthat, is Oregon, with 12.5 per
100,000 people, followed byWashington State at 10.8.
California has 8.6.
Followed by Washington State at10.8.
California has 8.6.
(07:35):
So, comparatively speaking, newEngland states have some of the
lowest in the US my home stateof Massachusetts 2.7, followed
by the smallest state in theUnion, rhode Island, at 2.6.
And the Great Lakes states alsohave some of the lowest
Wisconsin, illinois, indiana 3.3per 100,000.
Michigan, neenah State, has sixper every 100,000 residents,
(08:00):
but there is no federalrequirement for reporting to
NamUs.
Dr Jesse Goliath from theMississippi Repository for
Missing and Unidentified Personstold Newsweek that the real
figures are higher than thefederal statistics show.
So what they're saying is,without mandatory reporting by
law enforcement, the number ofactual missing persons state by
(08:23):
state is actually much higherthan this data is telling us, or
data.
Nina and I are going to cover alot of ground coming up next in
our conversation.
Please support Crime of theTruest Kind, and there are a
number of ways you can do so.
Listen to the show, tell yourfriends about it, share it on
social media, post a link on oneof your favorite Facebook
(08:46):
groups?
Are you on Reddit?
Leave a five-star rating andreview on Apple Podcasts.
Go to the merch store, buy somemerch.
Drop a tip in the jar.
You will be giving the dogs abone.
They are obsessed and about tostart yelling at me for more
treats.
Become a patron on Patreon withfour tiers starting at just $1.
(09:08):
All links atcrimeofthechewestkindcom.
At CrimeOfTheTruestKind.
com.
I learned pretty quickly when Istarted to meet people and
(09:28):
really the biggest aha momentwas going to the festival,
looking around and getting asense of what's happening, what
people are like, who have beendoing this for a little while,
and then I started to meetpeople.
You know, I started to meetfamilies and hearing from
families and that that waseverything.
Nina Innsted (09:48):
Yeah, that was truly everything.
It gives you a lot ofperspective.
Anngelle Wood (09:50):
It sure does.
How did it start for you,because you've been at it for
quite a bit.
Nina Innsted (09:57):
So in 2015, my daughter developed agoraphobia,
which means she didn't want toleave the house.
She was eight or nine andwouldn't go to school.
I couldn't leave her home alonebecause she was too little.
So I had to quit my job, whichI was fine with.
I was ready to leave teachingand stay home with her and I was
(10:18):
listening to podcasts so that Iwouldn't go crazy from a lack
of adult content you know adultinteraction and called my
husband one day and he's like,how's it going?
And I'm like, oh, it's allright, you know what?
I think I want to start apodcast.
And he came home with amicrophone A few months later I
(10:38):
started the podcast.
Anngelle Wood (10:38):
What brought you to this format?
What was it about crime thatattracted you?
Nina Innsted (10:48):
I'm dating myself here, but when I was a little
girl, like a toddler, theOakland County child killer was
killing kids in Oakland Countywhere I lived and took a girl
from my neighborhood.
So there's always been thisstranger danger serial killer
vibe, and he was never caught.
My whole life has beenwondering who the Oakland County
child killer is.
(11:09):
So I've always been interestedin true crime and then growing
up my mom always had the pulpnovels you know, the true crime
ripped from the headlines,paperbacks laying around.
So I did a lot of reading.
Anngelle Wood (11:23):
My beloved Nana, who lived well into her 90s,
smoked like a fiend from whenshe was about 12 years of age.
So I don't know what magic wasinside her, but she used to read
those very graphic detectivemagazines.
Nina Innsted (11:37):
Yeah.
Anngelle Wood (11:38):
And I was a little girl looking over her
shoulder, going I don't knowwhat's happening, but to say I
liked it is seems really morbid,but something stuck.
Nina Innsted (11:49):
Yeah.
Anngelle Wood (11:50):
But my parents didn't seem to have it, or did
they know, who knows?
They didn't have anyreservation, with my Nana
reading these very graphicmagazines.
Yeah, I blame my Nana for atleast planting the seed.
And then it just grew and grewand grew until you know, before
we even knew what true crime was.
Nina Innsted (12:11):
Right.
Anngelle Wood (12:12):
You know we talk about what's big in the news
right now.
There's this new interest inthe Menendez brothers case.
That was true crime.
When that was going on, youknow, when his, when the parents
were murdered by the boys, theydid it People were fascinated
because it was true crime, butwe didn't know what true crime
was.
Nina Innsted (12:29):
Yeah, I remember leaving work to go home and
watch the OJ Simpson verdictcome in.
Anngelle Wood (12:34):
I remember that was bananas.
Yeah, Absolutely bananas.
Let's talk about the missingpersons scams that are cropping
up online.
When I heard your episode withBill and Kristen from Mind Over
Murder, I was like these are thethings.
Nina Innsted (12:54):
I've been talking about People.
Anngelle Wood (12:56):
When you say something to someone and say,
hey, careful, I've gottenpushback from people when they
say, well, I think their familywould really want them found,
and I would gently say,sometimes I would respond and
say, yes, they certainly would.
However, or this child wasmissing and has been located,
(13:20):
this photograph you're passingaround.
I love that you're caring aboutthis missing child.
This child has since been found, about six months ago, and I
didn't know all of those thingsthat you explained that it's the
bait and switch and who iswho's baiting and what they're
(13:41):
switching, because I know thatyou run Missing in Michigan.
Yeah, I run the online, thatamazing resource for people in
the area.
How soon did you figure it outthat this was a game?
Nina Innsted (13:56):
I didn't realize what people were doing.
I just knew they weren't realposts.
You know, the first thing Ilook for is police contact
information or a phone number ofany kind.
Generally these were beingposted with no date, no phone
number and no way to get intouch with someone.
(14:16):
It was just like a panickedflood.
Your feeds, you know, sharewidely, share this post, and
over the last almost six yearsI've seen hundreds, if not
thousands, of missing personsposts.
So I know what they're supposedto look like and I know how the
originating they're supposed tolook like and I know how the
originating poster is supposedto be acting.
(14:39):
And not everybody acts the same.
But you know there's a prettystandard set of things to look
for and I just wasn't seeingthem.
So I'm like this isn't this,doesn't.
This just doesn't seem right.
And then I try and track down.
You know I would message theperson or look at their profile
and go that's a fake profile.
So I would just know we'redeleting it, that's not
(15:00):
legitimate.
But then I realized what theywere doing is they were creating
these posts of a missing childor a found dog or a missing
grandpa and getting people toshare them widely, and then the
post would suddenly convert toproperty for rent or for sale or
an office availability, youknow, some sort of sales related
(15:21):
post.
And it's just so disappointingthat people take advantage of
people's good nature and peoplewanting to help with something
like that.
Anngelle Wood (15:30):
People just don't understand.
They don't understand what's atstake like that.
People just don't understand.
They don't understand what's atstake.
You see them in yard sale postsMissing dog and I have five
dogs so I'm very concerned.
And then you think, hmm, whyare they posting this in a yard
(15:51):
sale page?
Because it's going to turn intosomething else.
You know.
Nothing tugs at yourheartstrings like somebody's
missing little child.
Nina Innsted (15:56):
Exactly, you worry , we worry about kids.
I you know, look out for otherpeople's kids all the time, as
people should.
So when you see that a child ismissing, it strikes at the
heart of you and you're like, oh, I've got to help, I've got to
share this, do what I can tosupport this family in an
upsetting time and then to beduped by some scammer who's
(16:18):
looking to sell something isjust gross.
Anngelle Wood (16:21):
It's abominable, but that's the nature of,
unfortunately, the internet, ashas been evidenced.
I'm sure, throughout yourcourse, your journey into true
crime and advocacy your journeyinto true crime and advocacy,
which is a big driver for youand is a big driver for me, as
(16:41):
I'm learning you want to do asmany of the right things as you
possibly can to help families,and I recently had an interview
with a family member of a womanwho went missing and they found
deceased and unsolved.
I'm hoping to support thatfamily more, but what I learned
about their case and so manyothers is they have absolutely
(17:06):
no idea what to do, how to do it, who to reach out to.
They knew this family inparticular.
No-transcript, and their localpolice department says she's 23
(17:47):
years old.
no, we're not going to take areport which is so frustrating
have we not moved on from thatplace where police officers tell
family members you have to waitbefore we'll accept a report?
Is that still happening?
Nina Innsted (18:04):
So in my experience, I've worked with a
lot of police departments andI'm on the phone with the police
several times a week, you know,because I'll get a missing
persons report and then I'll andlet them know that I've got a
post on Facebook that they'rewelcome to share, that we're
getting the person out on socialmedia, and it really varies
(18:28):
from department to department.
The reaction I get Sometimesit's oh my gosh, great thanks
for helping, and other timesit's like I'm not even going to
tell you that there's a missingpersons report, it's none of
your business.
So the culture at variouspolice departments determines
the reaction they're going toget, that a family is going to
get when they file a report orattempt to file a report that
(18:51):
comes from the leadership of thedepartment.
Anngelle Wood (18:54):
There's no rule among police forces at anywhere.
They can decide whether theywill or they won't.
Yeah, the question came up whenyou were saying that Nina was.
Is that also the case with amissing person who gets added
into, say, one of the databases,one of the clearinghouses for
(19:15):
missing folks?
It's something that, as Iunderstand it, law enforcement
has to do, that A family membercan't go to NamUs and add their
loved one, correct?
Nina Innsted (19:27):
As far as I know, namus cannot be edited by just
anyone.
Best practice would be for alaw enforcement agency, after
someone's been missing for 7 to14 days, that they would go and
enter the person into NamUs.
Now you look at a smallerdepartment where they don't have
missing persons, but once everycouple of years they may not
(19:49):
even know what to do.
I believe they can reach out toNamUs and get support in keying
their person in, but as far asI know there is no uniformity
from state to state, county tocounty whether or not someone
gets keyed in to NamUs.
I have also had the experienceof calling a department here in
(20:09):
Georgia where they have amissing person listed like a
long-term missing on theirdepartment webpage and me
calling to ask about it and themgoing.
We don't have any missingpersons.
What are you talking aboutabout it and them going?
We don't have any missingpersons.
What are you talking about?
So again, it comes down to theculture of the department and
(20:31):
then also the experiences of thedepartment.
I expect Atlanta PD to do amuch better job at keying people
into NamUs than I would alittle two-car department in
rural Georgia to car departmentin rural Georgia.
Anngelle Wood (20:47):
One of the things I want to do with this
conversation is help arm peoplewith the information, the steps
that they can take.
Now, of course, you have saidall law enforcement
organizations are differentlocal versus some of the state,
police, etc.
What are some of the basicthings we can arm people with on
how to do this?
Now I know that you have saidbe very careful of sharing your
(21:11):
own personal contact informationbecause of the nature of the
internet and people will calland say, oh, I have them, but
you have to give me money.
That happens, unfortunatelythat's called extortion Against
the law.
Nina Innsted (21:29):
Still happens.
Anngelle Wood (21:33):
Still happens all the time.
If I were, to say, make aninfographic of some of the steps
that an average citizen whofinds that they're in this
situation, what are the firstthree, four, five steps that we
can guide them with in yourexperience?
Nina Innsted (21:51):
So the first thing you should do is notify law
enforcement, make a call to lawenforcement or, better yet, go
into the station and file areport.
If they will not take a reportif it's a city department, go to
the county.
Ask the county sheriff to makea report.
If they will not take a reportif it's a city department, go to
the county.
Ask the county sheriff to makea report.
If the county sheriff won'ttake it, go to the state police.
Your loved one is missing.
(22:11):
This is out-of-characterbehavior for them.
If they are a child or a senioror medically compromised, you
don't have to wait 24 hours.
If they are missing, they aremissing.
You need to get on the radar oflaw enforcement as soon as
possible.
You need to cast a wide net,which means calling everyone you
(22:32):
know and asking have you seenthis person?
Have you seen this person?
Social media is great forgetting the word out.
You should have a person's name, a good photo, date and
location last seen and the bestway to contact law enforcement.
Or, if you have to contactyourself, you can create a quick
(22:54):
email address.
You know missinggenie123 atgmailcom.
You don't have to put yourphone number out there.
It's not safe to put your phonenumber out there.
Even on Facebook, there will bepeople that don't respect
boundaries and just want tomessage you to get the scoop.
They just want to get thelowdown and I find that really
(23:17):
irritating because it's wastingthe person's time Getting the
word out to law enforcement,calling all of your contacts to
see if they have had any contactwith your missing person and
using social media judiciouslyto get the word out about your
missing person.
There are organizations likeMissing in Michigan, in several
(23:38):
states, in several regions, likethe city of Toledo in Ohio.
It's not very big but there isa Toledo missing persons page.
Angie who runs that isfantastic.
There are neighborhood groupsthat you can make your post in.
I would not use the yard salegroup, but most communities have
a Facebook group that you canmake a post in.
Anngelle Wood (23:59):
One of the things that has come up for me and I
have gotten some pushback onlineand I'm sure you have a great
deal of experience in thisregard Somebody goes missing.
There is a pretty big swell ofinformation People are
distributing that this personwas last seen on the side of the
(24:21):
road.
Person was last seen on theside of the road.
This is the only information weknow.
They're missing.
Get the call out and they arereported to the area law
enforcement agency and lawenforcement is a part of this
and there becomes such like agroundswell of information about
this missing person and thenthe missing person is located,
(24:43):
whether it be they're found andthey're injured or not.
The public then has a lot ofquestions.
Yes, what I try to say topeople when they're like what
happened?
What happened?
I say very unpopular thingslike we don't have a right to
know what happened after this ifthe family doesn't want us to
(25:07):
know.
There comes a place where thefamily can say no more, no,
we're not going to make comments, or the police, can you know
the law enforcement will sharepossibly a statement from the
family that says please respectour privacy, we're dealing with
this, no other information isgoing to come out.
Nina Innsted (25:26):
And I fully support that.
I often know the circumstancesof how someone was found, if
they were taken into custody, ifthey were found in hospital, if
they were found as an angel, ifthey just showed up back at
home.
The two things you need to knowis that they were found safe or
they were found as an angel,and other than that, it's really
(25:46):
up to the family what, ifanything, they would like to
share.
Anngelle Wood (26:04):
You don't have a right to know.
We don't have a right to knowanything that happened beyond
what may have already come outand then the sleuths pick that
up and oftentimes can make thecase worse for the family
members.
But I've tried to say that insome instances where we may
never know, we know this personis safe and back with their
families.
We may never know when it comesto children particularly.
(26:25):
I want to wipe all that out.
Nina Innsted (26:27):
But if it isn't adults.
So I totally get wanting toknow.
I want to know.
I've had people go missing inthe families, just like we found
them.
They're safe.
You can take it down and I'mlike super curious, but it's not
my business.
I did my part.
I was a good neighbor, a goodcommunity member, and that's it.
You're not entitled to thedetails.
(26:49):
I get that that's frustratingand I get that we have a natural
curiosity or we get invested inthe story.
But it's not our right to know,but it is that person's right
to privacy, the desire to know.
I get being curious, I getbeing invested, but the best
course of action is to respectthe wishes of the family.
Anngelle Wood (27:11):
We truly don't know what's going to happen to
that family after that.
Again, we don't have to know,we don't have a right to know,
but that family could be goingthrough a whole nother
experience, whether it's they'rein the hospital and that person
is injured or worse, and theyjust don't want to flood the
(27:33):
Internet sphere with any moreinformation because at that
point they're trying to protectthat person.
Hopefully.
Nina Innsted (27:38):
Well, or the person checked themselves into
rehab and didn't tell theirfamily, or the person is fleeing
a domestic violence situation,and sharing the status of where
they are or how they were foundcould put them back in danger.
It's better to just be gratefulthat they were found and let it
go.
Anngelle Wood (27:57):
You raised some very important points.
It wasn't a traditionaldisappearance, we'll say, if
there's such thing as atraditional, they weren't
kidnapped, they didn'ttemporarily lose their memory.
(28:21):
Something very serious was isto try to escape a domestic
violence situation.
Time is of the essence forfolks and leaving.
I mean it is October, it isDomestic Violence Awareness
Month.
We should really talk aboutthis.
Nina Innsted (28:36):
Yes.
Anngelle Wood (28:36):
We should be shouting this from the rooftops
that how truly dangerous it isfor someone in an abusive
situation to leave.
It's the most dangerous timeand if they decide they're going
to slip out under the radar andit becomes a very big public
thing.
(28:56):
Keeping that information quietafter the fact probably becomes
that much more difficultinformation quiet after the fact
probably becomes that much moredifficult.
Nina Innsted (29:09):
Well, and that's another reason why it's really
important to have a policereport and a police contact,
because that way you know thatthe person who's looking for the
missing person is acting ingood faith.
Anngelle Wood (29:16):
Another great point to add to it that abuser
could be the one who's floodingthe information right?
That didn't even really occurto me until right about now.
Maybe that person that is likethis person's missing call me.
I need to know immediately.
They could be the one that'shunting them down.
Lack of a more appropriate term.
Nina Innsted (29:37):
Yeah, that's trying to track the person down,
absolutely.
The other thing that I tellfamilies and I come across this
more often than you think issomeone who lives a
non-traditional lifestyle.
Maybe they're transient, maybethey're struggling with
addiction, maybe they'reestranged from their family, but
they have a friend or a networkof friends that they're close
(29:59):
with, that they keep in contactwith.
These people go missing andpeople that are unhoused go
missing and people that haveaddiction issues go missing and
people that have warrants gomissing.
It's not uncommon and I wouldnever turn away someone who was
missing just because of theirlifestyle or their background,
(30:20):
and I get it.
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