November 6, 2024 • 61 mins
Our live shows have become something special. We have enjoyed hosting them and plan many more in the year ahead because it is important to share empathetic storytelling, to keep these stories alive as time passes and victims of these stories are being forgotten about. Special thanks to Sean and Stephanie and the Brodie family.
Episode page: https://www.crimeofthetruestkind.com/post/ep74northshorecases
Join us for a captivating journey as we navigate true crime with some of the North Shore of Massachusetts' most perplexing crime cases with compassion and advocacy. In this episode, recorded live on October 10, 2024 at Off Cabot in Beverly, Mass, we take an emotional exploration of some of the most poignant crime stories covered by Crime of the Truest Kind, and others we are learning about. Our live events offer a sence of community, where stories and insights are shared in an intimate setting.
Shedding light on the cases of Marcia Biancardi, a Beverly teenager killed by her own mother, Martha Brailsford, a talented Salem artist whose life ended in 1991, by someone she called a friend, a focus on the pressing issue of domestic violence with stories of young mother Nayeli Nieves of Salem killed and discarded by her partner, 14-year-old girl Amy Carnevale of Beverly, lured and brutally murdered by someone she thought she loved, Beth Brodie, from my hometown of Groveland, whose kindness was taken advantage of by a former classmate whose obsession turned deadly, and Kristen Gove Crowley, a beautiful young woman stalked by two men who decided they would take what they wanted from her, following her to her Peabody home and attacking her in the woods and leaving her to die.
Other cases we intend to cover: Claire Gravel, Beverly. Caleigh Harrison, Rockport, Michael O’Gorman, Gloucester, Lois Centofanti, Lynn, Jesus De La Cruz, Lynn, Susan Taraskiewicz, Saugus, Dickson “Joel” De Los Reyes, Revere, Elaine Donahue, Revere, Leigh Savoie, Revere, Henry Bedard Jr, Swampscott, Leanne Redden, Lynn, Beryl Atherton, Marblehead
These tragedies highlight the enduring impact on families in our communities and how we honor these victims, we say their names, and advocate for empathy, awareness, and change.
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This podcast has minimal profanity but from time to time you get one or some curse words. This isn't for kids.
Music included in episodes from Joe "onlyone" Kowalski, Dug McCormack's Math Ghosts and Shredding by Andrew King
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anngelle Wood (00:00):
Well, hello, my name is Anngell Wood and this is
Crime of the Truest Kind.
(00:23):
Well, to say it has been aninteresting couple of weeks is
quite the understatement.
Our live shows have becomepretty great.
What I mean is they're special,intimate, interactive, a meetup
of listeners and I don't knowlocal crime aficionados.
People bring their own stories,which are also great to hear.
(00:48):
I met several people at thelast Off Cabot show who had
connections to some of the casesthat I spoke about, including
the family members of one of thecases included in the show.
I had a few moments.
We felt some feelings.
I went back and forth with whatI should include and what should
(01:12):
go out of this live showsegment, starting with the
inaudible parts of the recordingthat weren't intended for
sharing.
I did some editing to make it alittle bit more palatable to
you, the listener.
It's heavy subject matter butimportant information to share,
(01:32):
and the shows are really lovelyand I've enjoyed doing them.
So I have split this in twoparts.
I have included thepresentation and the second half
is the Q&A where we were ableto capture almost all of the
(01:55):
audio, which is tough with aroom full of people.
Information about all of thecases I cover, posted at
crimeofthetruestkindcom on theepisodes page, including the
slides that were used as part ofthe presentation.
If you want the entire feed,it's available for patrons on
Patreon unedited, in all itsglory.
(02:17):
Thank you to all our patrons onPatreon, including Lisa
McColgan, superstar EP, and ourfriends who support via.
Give the dog a bone, drop a tipin the jar.
You are truly and actuallygiving my spoiled dogs a bone.
(02:39):
My name is Angelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind Massachusetts and New
England crime stories.
Follow the show at Crime of theTruest Kind, tell your friends
about it, share it on socialmedia, leave a five star rating
and review on Apple podcasts.
I would be most appreciative.
(03:00):
Would be most appreciative.
People ask me pretty regularlywhen a new live show will be
scheduled.
Nothing for the remainder ofthis year.
I definitely have new things instore for 2025, including other
locations, and I welcome yoursuggestions.
I split the live show in twoparts.
(03:23):
This is part one, thepresentation.
Part two, you will see, is thebonus, including the Q&A.
Episode 74, North Shore CrimeCases recorded live at Off Cabot
in Beverly, Massachusetts.
(04:00):
(Applause) I should add thatChris is the set designer and I
did not bring these feathersfrom home, but you are
extraordinary.
Never forget it.
All right, well, thank youeverybody for being here, and so
many of you have never been toOff Cabot before.
Thank you for coming it before.
(04:26):
Thank you for coming.
I have been doing this forabout three and a half years and
I started to do live shows andit's worked out.
You seem to be pretty into it.
Yeah, you're all here, so thatsays something A little bit
about me.
For those of you who aren'taware, I do a podcast.
(04:46):
I talk about New England crimestories.
There's a little history thrownin there, because I like that a
little snark, try to keep thatto a minimum.
I can sometimes make some jokes, but never at the expense of
the victims or their families.
I can make fun of perpetrators,I can make fun of anything
(05:07):
associated with that, but neverat the expense of anybody who's
directly involved with any ofthese things, because, keep in
mind, these are some of theworst days of people's lives, so
I'm very mindful about that.
I started my career on radio.
Everybody here seems to be ofthe age where you know what
radio is.
Thank you for being here.
(05:29):
You might have children orgrandchildren that say what's
radio.
Well, we know we're a specialgroup of people.
I worked at a radio stationWFNX.
Some of you here on the NorthShore might know that I worked
at a station called WBCN RIP,wbcn.
(05:49):
It is no more.
I worked for a radio stationthat does still exist, but
before they played Billy Joel.
I like Billy Joel, but it was athing.
Wzlx is still in existence.
So I've done all these thingsand my passion for radio has
shifted.
I mean, I love my time inexistence.
So I've done all these thingsand my passion for radio has
shifted.
I mean, I love my time in radio.
I loved it was great, but radiois very different.
(06:12):
And when I started podcasting alot of the things that I
learned in my radio life, theycame in very handy.
When I decided to try this truecrime thing Researching,
writing, you know, theproduction stuff came pretty
easily.
I'm not afraid to talk on a micand I love New England, so
(06:34):
being able to do all of thesethings together it was really
great.
And then I started learningabout advocacy and what that is,
because when I first starteddoing true crime I was probably
like a lot of you, I consumedall of it.
I love, you know nonfiction,read the books, watched the
(06:55):
documentaries I still do Netflix, all of these things but I
didn't really understandeverything that it entailed, and
when I say that I mean theimpact of what happens to the
people that are in these stories.
These are not our stories.
We borrow these stories and weshould take very good care of
(07:15):
them.
So when I talk about thesecases, I do it very, I try to do
it very respectfully and I tryto learn from all of it.
So am I the kind of podcasterwho wants to crack a case?
Well, sure, I would love to beable to help a case, but I'm not
an investigator, I'm definitelynot a cop, surprise but I care
(07:41):
about it, but I care about it.
So I try to learn and I havesurrounded myself with a lot of
other very knowledgeable andinteresting people in this true
crime space who have taught methings, particularly how to
advocate for other people.
So if I can share anything withyou and I'll give you a little
(08:02):
call to action, a littletake-home when we're done but if
I can share anything with allof you who are interested in
true crime, like I am, because Ireally am, I'm not going to
pretend that I'm some stuffysanctimonious person.
I watch all the shit on Netflix.
I will tell you what I do.
I watch it all.
My husband says really Can wenot watch a murder show tonight?
He's right there rolling sound.
(08:23):
Thank you, Paul Gallo, but I dolike it.
And I do want to say this aboutadvocacy we can all be advocates
every single one of us in thisroom because you can share some
information on the Internet.
Somebody's missing.
(08:44):
The most important thing we cando is try to get attention on
that case immediately, to try tofind that person, because we
know it's very serious at thestart of whatever it is.
However, whatever the detailsare surrounding that person's
disappearance we're not reallysure yet, but we really try to
get the word out and hopefullyit turns out the way we hope it
(09:06):
does that that person is found,they come back to their family
and then that information can goaway forever and as civilians
we are not obligated, or noone's obligated, to tell us what
happened to that person.
So I feel like I am getting alittle sanctimonious right now
and I don't mean to.
But you are all advocates inthis room.
You can all help be a part ofsupporting that family
(09:29):
supporting that missing person.
We all want the right thing tohappen.
We want that person to comehome safely and if that entails
us never hearing another thingabout it, well, that's the right
of the family to not tell uswhat happened.
A child went missing.
They were found, you don't needto know why.
That kid's safe.
End of discussion.
And people have said to meonline I've said okay, well, we
(09:52):
don't need to know.
Well, I do, I was very investedin this and I shared the thing.
Thank you for doing that.
But now we're going to let thefamily deal with what they're
dealing with.
So you're all advocates in thisroom.
That means if something happensto someone and you really care
about it, we want you to takeaction and try to help that
family.
Thanks, you're all advocates.
Thank you for coming.
(10:12):
Good night.
Well, thank you for being here.
When I talked about this date, Ihad some people ask me what I
was going to talk about and Isaid, well, what do you want to
talk about?
Because I'll talk aboutwhatever you want, as long as
(10:32):
it's, you know, relevant to whatI do on the show and relevant
to, you know, new England.
And we will do a Q&A at the end.
If you have any questions, youwant to hear about anything, you
want to talk about stuff, we'llopen it up to you.
And I got some feedback aboutwell, you're on the North Shore,
maybe you should talk aboutNorth Shore cases.
I'm like, great idea, let's doit.
So this is my podcastMassachusetts and New England
(10:54):
True Crime Regional History,advocacy Focus.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
If you did not know, I do apodcast.
Now you know this story Ilearned about over the last
couple of days.
I was not aware of this casebased in Beverly, Massachusetts,
in 1990.
Has anyone in here heard thecase of Marcia Biancardi?
Are you from Beverly?
(11:15):
Yeah, so you probably heardthis growing up.
Right, it happens on 39Livingstone Street, which is
about a five-minute drive fromwhere we sit right now.
Marsha Susan Biancardi was 16years old.
She died February 14, 1990.
(11:35):
When word reached her highschool over the PA, remember
when they did that in highschool, when all of the
announcements came over the PAand staff and students learned
that she died.
They were shocked, of course,but even more confused when they
learned that they were sayingthat it was at her own hand that
(11:56):
she hurt herself and herfriends were like there's
absolutely no way.
There's no way that thathappened.
There's no way that she didthis.
She was 16.
She was cheering, she wasstarting to sing in the choral
group or the choir, whateverthey called it in Beverly High
in 1990.
(12:17):
They just knew there's no waythis happened.
And for those of you who grew upin the 80s, did your hair look
like this?
Because mine did.
I have the pictures to prove it.
They couldn't figure out forthe life of them what happened.
(12:40):
And why, why, how, how, how,how.
I mean that's the questions allof us would ask, right, if our
friend, we learned this aboutour friend and then we feel
guilty and did we miss the signs?
And things were very differentin 1990 about what we thought
about this and what we called it, and the language has changed
and all of these things.
The questions loomed about howMarcia this you know, probably
(13:06):
petite 16-year-old girl couldhave taken a shotgun and shot
herself in her abdomen.
There are all the questionsassociated with that how she did
that, how she reached thetrigger.
She had no gunpowder residue onher hands.
I'm not CSI, but we've seenenough episodes to know like you
check their hands and you gounder there.
(13:26):
But police suspected somethingbecause just the nature of the
case and Audrey, Marcia's sistertold friends right after this
that she was afraid.
She was afraid of her mom At14,.
She was witness to a great dealof trauma and the words that
she shared with her friends madeit back to authorities.
(13:48):
And, of course, authoritieswere already on top of this and
they were investigating it.
And you see the cover of theDaily Evening Item, which is
confusing.
Is it night or day?
What do you want it to be?
I think they have since changedit right.
Well, you figured out that themom was charged.
The relationship between motherand older daughter was hard, 16
(14:12):
years old.
I remember when I was 16 yearsold.
I'm sure I was an asshole, butwhat was also going on is there
was problems with the parents'marriage.
It was very stressful and themom was dealing with mental
health issues and I'm not evengoing to begin to try to laundry
list what they were.
(14:33):
We're thinking probably abipolar situation or something
like that.
Again, the language wasdifferent then.
I believe a number of reportssaid manic depression.
We don't call it that anymore.
Susan Bian cardi was just 42.
Imagine this for a minute.
42 seems so young to getarrested and go to prison, and
(14:54):
that's what happened to Susan Bincardi.
She was charged withfirst-degree murder.
She faced life in prison.
Her surviving daughter stood byher mother because she believed
that her mom was very sick andshe thought that if she could
get her mom help, maybe thatwould change the situation and
she would still have her mom.
(15:15):
The defense used the insanityclaim, which doesn't really work
in court, much does it.
She was found they were thejury the first trial.
The jury rejected that claim.
She was sentenced to life inprison and then that was
overturned.
There was a new trial based onwhere they gave her a second
(15:41):
chance based on the instructionsthat were given to the jury on
the first trial.
As I understand it, the jurywasn't aware of the fact that to
say that she's not guilty byreason of mental defect or
insanity, that she wasn't goingto walk free because nobody on
(16:02):
this jury wanted her to just gohome and continue life, who
would she?
She murdered her child and Ishould also add that she also
tried to shoot her youngerdaughter, who was 14 at the time
, audrey, but there was amisfire.
So, audrey, imagine that for amoment the trauma of her seeing
(16:22):
what happened with her sisterand then her mother making the
same attempt on her, and thenthe mom she witnessed her mom
trying to do the same to herselfTwo misfires.
But it's very traumatic forthis child.
She was re -sentenced.
She was sent to the mentalhealth unit at MCI Framingham.
(16:45):
Her first bid for parole wasdenied in 2007 because she did
not seem sorry, she didn'tremember.
She claimed she didn't rememberany of it, she didn't seem
remorseful.
But then in 2010, she wasgranted parole and, like a lot
of Massachusetts people do, shemoved to Florida.
(17:07):
I think I believe she's stillalive.
Where the other daughter is, Idon't know.
She has a right to privacy, soI didn't try to dig too terribly
much into that.
So I had never heard the storybefore until I started
researching for this showtonight.
Beverly 1990.
Beverly 1990.
This is one of the cases that Igot a request for.
(17:31):
This is one of the cases thatwas.
I get a lot of requests to talkabout Martha Brailsford and
we're going to do that.
Martha, a talented artist,lived in Salem, was she?
Oh, so you knew her well.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
She seems amazing.
I mean, she seems like anincredibly talented lady.
(17:54):
Did you know this other personresponsible?
Oh my gosh, I know, I knowthat's good news, right, and he
did that a lot, didn't he?
He got a lot of chances at that, didn't he?
They were friends, they werefriendly, right, and he
convinced her to go sailing onhis I think anybody that has a
(18:18):
big boat that boat's probablypretty magnificent.
July 12, 1991,.
The man's name was ThomasMaimone, did I get it right?
He was 46.
Pretty young guy, engineer,living in Salem, worked for
Parker Brothers Games Boardgames.
We all know what board gamesare.
(18:39):
We're a mature, smart, kindpeople.
She agreed she went on the boatfor a sail.
Now we won't really know muchelse that happens, because the
only information that we reallyhave is from the perpetrator,
and he has been called apathological liar in just about
(19:00):
everything that I've read abouthim.
She was last seen boarding his28 foot sailboat counterpoint at
the Salem Willows at the pier.
Her husband came home from workthat Friday night.
She wasn't there.
It looked like she hadn't beenthere for a while.
I mean, we know each other'shabits, right?
(19:21):
You live with somebody for along time, you know what they do
.
There was no sign that she hadbeen home.
He knew Maimone went toquestion him, knew that they had
seen each other earlier thatday.
He agreed yeah, I saw her, butI haven't seen her since.
He said he had seen her butdenied anything past that.
(19:47):
Then Maimone was questioned bypolice and I got this.
You know you can't see.
Oh, you can.
I pulled this little map fromone of the archives where you
see the willows and then you seeeventually where she will be
found.
When questioned by police, hefirst said that the weather
turned rough and Martha got offat Winter Island and whatever he
(20:13):
did, he sailed on his merry way, I don't know.
Six days passed and Martha wasfound by a lobsterman fishing
off the coast of Marblehead.
She was unrecognizable due toshe had been in the water for a
week.
She appeared to have been naked.
She had a diving belt aroundher body with an anchor tied
(20:34):
around her ankle.
Investigators believe she waskilled because she refused this
man's advances.
Now this man had reportedly, asI understand it had had taken
other women for sales that lived.
Another one of his.
(20:54):
Pardon, any misspellings?
There's no spell check on thisprogram.
Another explanation was that arogue wave hit the boat.
The mast hit Martha and shefell overboard.
I don't know, I've never saileda sailboat surprise in Salem
Harbor, but does a rogue wavejust well up in Salem Harbor?
(21:19):
Anybody here who's nautical canplease tell me that that's the
case.
Again, he was called apathological liar.
He spun several versions, onceclaiming to have pulled her out
of the water after she haddrowned.
At one point he said he hadgiven her CPR.
(21:42):
Again, we can't believeanything he says.
Any true account of this.
He never shared with you knowwhatever he told investigators.
He never spoke to her familyabout what really happens.
Why would he?
He never told the courts whatreally happens.
In February 1993, he wasconvicted of second-degree
murder and sentenced to lifewith the chance of parole.
(22:05):
He continued his lies and anyattempts at release failed.
You know he would make allkinds of excuses before the
parole board.
They do that.
That's their M.
O.
I didn't do anything.
It wasn't my fault.
I wasn't involved.
There was a rogue wave.
They did not let him out and hedied in prison in 2017.
(22:30):
Several books and movies havebeen made about Martha's story.
I have not watched any of them.
I don't know if you can vouchfor anything that has come out
about her story that may befactual.
I have a hard time sometimesreading these things because
they can be a bit exploitative.
Would you agree?
I don't know what became of herhusband.
(22:53):
Maybe he's still in the area,I'm not sure.
Maybe you know better than I do.
I do know this that she trustedhim enough to get on the
sailboat with him and he wasn'tworthy of any of that.
He wasn't worthy of any of thattrust.
(23:13):
October is Domestic ViolenceAwareness Month.
It's something that ispervasive in our society.
Still, there is help availablefor anyone who's dealing with
this.
It's very important that I addthat there are ways where you
can get help to get out of it.
I hope that nobody in this roomwhere you can get help to get
out of it.
I hope that nobody in this roomright now is affected by it,
(23:36):
but I am sure that every singleone of us knows somebody who is
affected by it and we canadvocate for them.
Resources available locallyJane Doe Inc.
You can go to their website.
Janedoeorg Resources here inthe North Shore.
Go to their website, Janedoe.
org.
Resources here in the NorthShore.
In Salem it's HAWC HealingAbuse, working for Change.
(23:59):
I don't know if many peopleheard the story of Nayeli Nieves
.
She died last year in Salem, 20years old.
It is believed that she waskilled on or around August 5th
inside her 12 Pope Streetapartment.
Family members were concernedwhen they hadn't heard from her
(24:20):
after about a week.
A man named Pablo Vicente, 33years old, her boyfriends and
father of her two kids I knowwhat you're thinking she was 20,
he was 33.
What the actual fuck?
Because I said the exact samething.
He admitted to killing her.
(24:46):
He admitted to keeping her bodyin the apartment for a series
of days, about three days,before wrapping her up, bringing
her out to the dumpster andthrowing her away.
Her family would rather thatnot be the case.
(25:09):
Her family is still looking forher.
It's been over a year and shehas not been found.
Yes, it poses a lot ofquestions.
Nayeli Nieves has not beenfound.
Her children were ages 3 and 18months.
They were taken into statecustody.
He has been held charged withher murder.
(25:34):
I don't know the status of itright now, one of the things
that I think I've.
I had another slide of her andI think I lost it.
Sorry that we know about twoprior instances of domestic
violence in this relationship,one of which happened in Salem,
(25:55):
one of which happened in LowellI believe the most recent one
had been April of that yearApril of 2023, where he was
arrested and held.
Prosecutors wanted him, theywanted bail to be revoked, but
the judge refused and let him go.
Her family says if they wouldhave just held him, maybe there
(26:17):
was a chance we could havegotten her out of this Didn't
work, and now she's gone andshe's missing and her children
don't have a mom.
She was very young.
I know there are a lot ofquestions surrounding that, but
we know that sometimes, as hardas we try to work to get
something, to get somebody outof something, they think that's
(26:39):
where they should be and that'swhy we need to talk about it and
make sure people know thatthere's a way out.
Even at 20 years old with twolittle children, there is a way
out and there's a there.
It's hard, but there's a wayout.
Look her up, learn more abouther.
She mattered.
We know this one right.
(27:03):
I always get a little emotional, sorry.
This is a tough one becausethis is another young woman.
Amy Carnevale lived in Beverly.
She went to Beverly High, shewas a cheerleader, she was on
her way.
She was a kid.
She met this boy.
(27:24):
They started dating.
You know, I don't know.
I don't have an experiencebeing 14 years old and being
feeling I was madly in love withsomebody and thought we're
going to be together forever.
At 14, I think I was stillroller skating and I don't know,
probably watching cartoons.
I mean I, you know, um, theyhad this on again, off again,
(27:46):
association.
I don't want to call it arelationship because when you're
that age, there's, there'snothing really.
I don't know, I don't reallyfeel like you have any idea what
romantic love is.
Maybe, I mean maybe in theolden days, when people got
married at that very young age.
I don't know what her familyknew.
I don't know what her familyknew about what was going on.
She was very young, but nobodyelse is responsible for what
(28:09):
happened to her.
But the person who harmed herAmy's not responsible.
Her family's not responsible,as much as they may feel
responsibility.
Of course, I don't blameanybody, but the person who did
this.
She met a boy in school namedJamie Fuller.
(28:30):
He was 16.
They had this on and offassociation and he had been
pretty open about his intent.
He had planned to hurt her andtold people about it.
And then he acted on that plan.
August 23rd 1991, he lured Amyaway from her home under the
(28:50):
guise of wanting a haircut andyes, it was 1991, and he had a
mullet.
You can see it in the research,but it was 1991.
But she was very talented andshe was really interested in
being a hairstylist and that washer dream at that age was to do
(29:12):
that, and he knew that.
So he used that information tolure her and she agreed to go
see him.
She agreed to give him ahaircut and he and some of his
friends.
She came to their house.
He and some friends were thereat his house in Beverly and then
he somehow got her to go on awalk.
(29:37):
They went into the woods.
He stabbed her viciously many,many, many times, details of
which came out.
The brutality in what he did isjust unspeakable.
She was 14 years old.
He was very young, too 16.
I can't put myself in thatmindset.
(29:58):
Who could?
And her pleas angered him.
So he brutalized her even moreand he left her there.
He left her there and thenreturned to France.
His friends didn't think hewould actually do it.
He's like oh, I did it.
Basically, come and see what Idid.
(30:19):
They returned, wrapped up herbody, put her in the car and
drove her to Shoe Ponds, wherethey weighted her down and
dumped her in the water.
She was missing.
Her family was concerned.
Now, of course, he denied anyinvolvement in that he would be
arrested, charged, convicted oflife in prison, without the
(30:42):
chance of parole, at 16 yearsold.
And then his mother and herboyfriend concocted a plan to
break him out of prison.
They all got caught.
Yes, he had some idea where Idon't know who thought of it
they're all brain surgeons,clearly he had some idea where I
(31:03):
know I'll get hurt and we'llhave to go to the, they'll have
to take me out and go to thehospital and then you can
intervene and then you can stealme and we can and we can go
away to wherever you thoughtthey would go.
They failed, they all gotcaught.
The mom went to jail, theboyfriend clearly got in trouble
(31:34):
too.
But it doesn't stop there.
You think here, you think thisguy's going to go to prison
forever and he's never going toget out.
And then the MassachusettsSupreme Judicial Court changed
the ruling on juvenile lifers,and this is something that I've
learned quite a lot about overthe last several months.
(31:55):
Jamie Fuller became eligible forparole.
He went before the parole boardthis year.
He was denied in August, rightaround the anniversary of Amy's
murder Not the same day butwithin days of the anniversary
(32:15):
of her murder.
He was denied but he won't.
I guarantee you he's not goingto stop trying, because that's
what these people do.
So this is beth.
Today is her birthday.
Her brother is here.
I knew this was going to happen.
(32:42):
I've talked about her case.
You've probably heard it.
I hope you've listened to it.
If you haven't, please go back.
Her case is not as high profileas Amy's was.
I know that they talked aboutit.
I know it was in the press, butit doesn't make it any less
(33:04):
impactful or any less cruel.
In the fall of 1992, she was ahappy girl going to high school
cheerleading Pentucket,pentucket.
Anybody go to Pentucket, notyou.
She had been acquaintances withthis boy named Richard Baldwin.
They had spent some timetogether, but they weren't
(33:26):
boyfriend and girlfriend, as thepress would at the time would
have you believe, because itmakes for a good story, right,
boyfriend kills his girl.
No, that wasn't the case at all.
The boy had gone to school withBeth and other.
You know Beth's sister, sopeople knew.
(33:46):
People knew him in the circleright.
They had a neighbor that knewthem, they, they had a mutual
friend, the neighbor.
But then Baldwin moved away.
He had a shitty family We'veheard that story.
Right, he was depressed,whatever the case.
And then he and Beth had hungout.
They didn't date, they were notboyfriend and girlfriend.
(34:08):
And then they had spent sometime together, beth Baldwin and
the neighbor.
They went to the mallRockingham Mall, I think right
the day before, on November 17th.
(34:28):
He had, for whatever reason,developed some sort of idea in
his head that they had arelationship.
They didn't.
I can't stress that enough.
They were not boyfriend andgirlfriend.
Beth, smart as a whip, shedidn't.
She wasn't into it.
She's like let's just befriends.
She was a kid.
(34:50):
I mean, none of us were intoromantic love then.
We didn't know what romanticlove was right If you were
romantically in love withsomeone at 15 years old.
Okay, he wasn't romantically inlove, by the way, he was
demented.
(35:19):
So in his head he orchestrated aplot he was going to drive from
Peabody to Groveland, go to theneighbor's house, have the
neighbor who was mutual friends,have Beth come over so they
could talk.
I don't know what he think.
What he thought he was going toget from it was he going to get
closure?
I mean, you're fucking 16.
What kind of closure is thereright?
What he thought he was going toget from it Was he going to get
closure?
I mean, you're fucking 16.
What kind of closure is thereright?
It was all a ruse to get Bethto come over.
(35:42):
He premeditated this.
He got her alone and he tookout a baseball bat and he hit
her with the baseball batViolently, brutally.
She did not make it.
Her family had to see thisUnforgivable.
He admitted that he did it.
(36:03):
He left the neighborhood inGroveland.
The high school was very close,pentucket was very close.
He went over there.
I guess he ate pills, drankbooze and was supposedly going
to kill himself, had secondthoughts, went into the school,
(36:25):
talked to some of the staffersthere.
The principal, I think, calledthe ambulance.
He went to Hale Hospital.
At the time Hale Hospitaldoesn't exist anymore and he was
asking questions like has ithit the news yet?
Because somewhere in thedemented minds of these people,
(36:45):
these perpetrators, I think theyfeel like there's fame at stake
.
Right, they do these things.
We see it oftentimes with massshooters in schools and
otherwise.
They feel like they're going togo out in a blaze of glory,
like they're going to go down inhistory as some I don't know
what they think they're going togo down in history as.
(37:08):
He was arrested, he was charged,he was convicted.
He was charged, he wasconvicted.
He was given a life sentencewithout the chance of parole.
But much like what happens withJamie Fuller in Beverly in the
Amy Carnevale case, he couldthen go up for parole.
(37:31):
He went up for parole.
He went up for parole this year.
I was there with Beth's familyThank you for including me and I
listened to this boy-now-mandefinitely arrested development
because he's been in prisonsince he was 16 years old.
(37:52):
Just go on and on and I hope younever have to go to a parole
hearing ever.
I wish this on none of you.
I wish none of this evertouches your life in a personal
way where you have to thinkabout this at night.
But these perpetrators, theseconvicted killers, get to sit
(38:16):
there before the parole board.
It's five or six people andthey get to just talk and talk
and talk and kind of like whatI'm doing now, but I'm a good
person and they just get to talk.
And I'm watching this and I'mthinking I can't even believe
what I'm witnessing right now.
(38:37):
You know, trying to, it'severybody's fault and this
happened.
And then he talks about, heuses some you know, spirituality
with his ancestors.
I'm like that's?
Do you just read a book anddiscover that because that might
work?
I don't think so.
It didn't work.
He goes on and on and on andthe family gets to speak.
Unbelievable the impact.
(39:01):
You can't walk away from that.
The same, I'm happy to say.
He did not get parole.
He had had a couple ofopportunities.
The timeline is that he had hada chance a few years ago and he
(39:23):
didn't.
He didn't take the opportunity,thankfully, but it wasn't
without putting the Brodies andBeth's family through living
hell In this parole hearing.
It's astounding Because they'reasking him questions Well, did
you do this?
He didn't do anything.
(39:44):
These people don't generally doanything to prepare for their
parole hearing.
For their parole hearing theyneed to have had established
some kind of plan torehabilitate.
I don't know.
I don't think prison is theplace for rehabilitation for
people with violent tendencieslike this.
(40:05):
That's a whole otherconversation for us to have.
This person is clearly ill.
Those kinds of actions thatdoesn't cross my mind ever.
Someone makes me mad.
That stuff doesn't cross mymind ever, but one of the things
that so he was denied,thankfully, and he will have a
(40:26):
chance again eventually, andI'll be there again eventually,
and I'll be there again.
Happy birthday, Beth.
There's a lot of things thatbother me about this and I take
it very personally.
Who do you think you are tomake this decision for these
(40:46):
women?
You have no right.
I didn't plan on coming up hereand crying before you, but,
having a vulnerable moment, Ishould go back to making jokes.
Who do these people think theyare to make these choices for
women?
And I am talking about?
You know, all of the storiesthat I prepared for today are
(41:09):
about women.
I do definitely research andcover cases about children and
men, but this stuff isparticularly it's close to my
heart because of the nature ofthese things.
These girls, these women, hadlives to live.
They had dreams to fulfill,dreams that they didn't even
(41:32):
know about yet.
You know Beth, she didn't evenhave a chance to be Beth.
We knew Beth, as I didn't.
I didn't know her, but I'vecome to know her and she's
helped me be a better advocate.
I just don't understand why.
I mean, I know there's a lot offactors involved, but the fact
(41:53):
that someone took her agencyfrom her.
She didn't get to choose thatday.
What would happen if she wouldlive to be 16, if she got to get
her braces off, if she wasgonna go to that concert or
watch her favorite show?
Somebody took that choice awayfrom her.
(42:14):
It's unforgivable.
I've talked to her family.
Sean is here, her brother and Ilike to.
When I talk about these peopleand these stories, I like to
kind of imagine what their lifemay have been like.
I try to write a story for them.
(42:35):
You know somebody like Beth.
She'd be like a prosecutor.
You know what I mean.
She'd be putting thesemotherfuckers in jail.
She would be because she wasreally smart.
She was shy, but she was young.
She would have been kick-ass.
I know for a fact.
(42:57):
It's just tough to know thatthese boys now men were so
broken, for whatever reason.
That's not up to us to decide.
Bad families yes, a lot of uscome from bad families, but I'm
not going to hurt anybody.
We've all gotten angry, we'veall felt wronged or, you know,
(43:21):
we've all had our hearts broken.
We've all been in love.
We've had our hearts broken.
We've lost people.
People have come and gone fromour lives, but we don't react
this way.
So there's something wrong.
Clearly there's something wrongwith these boys.
Now, men, they're where theybelong.
They're in prison.
(43:42):
They should stay there.
This is a case that I coveredvery early in the podcast.
This is like episode five orsix.
Kristen Crowley lived inPeabody.
She was a young woman, she was27.
This happened in 1996.
(44:03):
On the night of June 1st, twoex-Marines and former roommates
lied to their girlfriend this ishow I wrote it, so I just kind
of pulled this from my scriptLied to their girlfriends and
headed to the local strip clubwhere they spent hours drinking
and propositioning the dancers.
It was the golden banana, youbet, did they?
(44:26):
Well, it seems right.
They left.
They failed to convince any ofthe women who worked at the club
to leave with them.
They happened upon thisstunning young woman, kristen.
They were at that localconvenience store and I've
driven by this a bunch of timesand there's a store like the
(44:49):
Golden Bananas here on Route 1.
And there's a gas station slashconvenience store right here
and I think, I think that's theone it was.
And so since I've done thiscase, people have messaged me
and said, yeah, I was workingthere that night and they just
wanted to share their story.
It was nothing that I includedin the podcast or anything.
But you know, subsequently theywere like I was there and these
(45:10):
guys, and she wasn't doinganything wrong.
It's like clearly she wasn'tdoing anything wrong, but they
made it out that she was doingsomething wrong and I'll explain
.
These men saw her.
She was very striking, gorgeouswoman.
You know.
One of the guys looked at theother guy and said, oh, that
looks like the girl that wasjust at the club.
Within an hour of them seeingher, she was dead.
(45:31):
They spotted her at the gasstation, followed her.
She got her items, drove to hercondo in Peabody.
These men followed her.
They accosted her.
They dragged her out of her car.
She fought and she fought hard.
She fought for her life.
They dragged her into the woods.
They tried to sexually assaulther.
(45:55):
Remember, they had beendrinking at the club for a long
time.
They beat her with a rock andleft her there.
A large boulder and a two-poundrock were found near her.
Both were covered entirely withblood.
There were pieces of her hair,very obvious signs of a struggle
.
Her cause of death was blunttrauma to the head and neck,
(46:16):
resulting in multiple skullfractures, jaw fractures and
severe this is my language, notthe language that came from the
report severe injury to herbrain.
She had defensive wounds on herhands.
She fought like hell againstthese men.
But one of the things, manythings, bother me about this
(46:37):
case, everything I talked aboutbeth and amy and all of these
women beforehand come into play.
So the men they were found, youknow, located, implicated,
arrested, charged.
He got 15 years to life, a mannamed timothy dykens, convicted
of first degree murder.
All of this is made worse bythe way that she was written
(47:02):
about in the news.
It was called the strippermurder, the dancer murder.
Like she became a non-personfrom that point on.
She became a headline.
She didn't have a name.
She was the stripper, she wasthe girl who left the club.
So to clarify and it was reallyimportant for me to and I talked
(47:23):
to a couple of reporters, itwas a woman from Salem News that
I spoke to at length about thisI said you know, they
disparaged her in the media,calling her a stripper and et
cetera.
This reporter's response tothat was and I still don't
really know how I feel about it,but it hurts to say it out loud
the reason why she's dead isbecause she fought back so hard.
And I said are you fuckingkidding me?
(47:46):
She fought for her life andthat's the reason why she's dead
, not these two guys that left astrip club because they were
horned out and attacked herbecause she was beautiful.
But that reporter actually hasdone a great deal of work.
I don't really like thatresponse at all because I don't
feel like she did anything todeserve anything that happened
to her.
She just walked into a store toget you know, doritos, mountain
(48:08):
Dew and probably a pack ofbutts.
The truth is that she had donesome parties.
She was recently married.
She came from a good family.
Her family was devastated whenthis happened.
They couldn't understand it.
All of the unfathomable thingsthat occur when you lose a loved
(48:29):
one, especially so brutally,that occur when you lose a loved
one especially so brutally.
But again, this is another caseof these men deciding what was
going to happen to her thatnight.
She fought and she lost becauseof these men deciding that they
wanted to take from her whatshe didn't want to give them.
(48:53):
So Keegan died trying to beparoled.
Oh, that's too bad, dykens.
I don't really know whathappened to him.
I believe he's still in jail.
I'm going to use my line Ticktock, motherfucker, because your
time is coming.
I don't want any of thesepeople to get out of prison.
They're unworthy for society.
(49:15):
Have you rehabilitated?
Very personal feelings that I'msharing with you.
Clearly, I don't know, if youattack a woman and smash her
head in with a rock, that youare rehabilitatable.
Maybe that's just me.
Of course, I need to shareimportant information about
RAINN, National Sexual AssaultHotline.
(49:38):
I understand, having been inthis true crime space, as we
call it.
I understand there are, youknow, we hear the word safe
spaces and triggers.
Those words have beenbastardized, those words have
been stolen from us tomanipulate, but there are really
.
People do experience triggers.
(49:58):
People do need these safespaces.
I talk to families and I sayyou know what, if you tell me
today you want to talk about itand tomorrow you don't, we're
not gonna.
I talked to a woman veryrecently, her sister, Charline
Rosemond, was you want to talkabout it and tomorrow you don't,
we're not going to.
I talked to a woman.
Very recently her sister,Charline Rosemond, was murdered
(50:20):
and found in Somerville in a carin a parking lot, been there
for six days.
We can't figure out why a womanwas shot in the back of the
head and left in a car thatstayed in a parking lot in
Somerville, massachusetts, forsix days and nobody figured it
out.
I don't know, have you everbeen to Somerville?
You know that you can't park inSomerville and a car sat there
for six days with a dead womaninside.
(50:42):
I don't understand any of this.
And the authorities believe shewas there the whole time that
she had been missing from herfamily and they found her
eventually.
Her sister and I spoke veryrecently.
I just put out two episodesabout her case unsolved and her
sister said she's like I want totalk about it and I want people
to know about my sister's story.
(51:03):
But it brings me to a placewhere I have to kind of psych
myself up for it because I know,you know, she could be doing
really well and he could bringher down again.
And I said totally understandif you decide at any point we do
this interview and you say Idon't, I don't want you to do
anything with this, we don'tbecause it triggers things in
(51:23):
you.
It's been 15 years since hersister was murdered.
People know what happened butthey won't talk, they won't tell
.
We need to talk about thesecases.
We need to tell people, we needto express to people that there
are families hurting and ifthere's some way we can let them
(51:44):
know whether it's let them knowor really let authorities know
that you know something, know orreally let authorities know
that you know something, even ifyou think that that little bit
of information is not relevant.
We don't know everything theauthorities know.
So you could connect a dot ordraw a line to something that
the authorities know about orconfirm something that the
(52:06):
authorities already know about.
I can't say that we're allgoing to be.
I mean, I would love to saywe're going to solve crimes.
I would love that, I would liketo be a small cog in the wheel
of solving somebody's pain.
But it's not about that.
I think for some true crimecreator people, it is about, you
know, trying to solve the case.
(52:27):
I'm not a cop, I'm not areporter.
I'm somebody who writes storiesand I research and I read and I
care and I never want to causemore pain to somebody or a
family.
But I got to try every time Ido something like this, because
this stuff it's like thesnowball effect.
I want everybody who isinterested in these subject
(52:51):
matters because I know sometimeswhen I say, oh yeah, I do a
true crime podcast, some peoplego, hmm, because some of it is
very gross.
Right, we know some of it isvery gross.
We've heard the stories.
There was an incident not allthat long ago where there was a
true crime creator that had aYouTube channel and somehow got
(53:11):
access to autopsy photos of achild, took those autopsy photos
of a child and put it behindtheir Patreon paywall and we're
like buy into my Patreon and seethese pictures.
Stop, first of all, you havesomeone's child autopsy photos.
(53:32):
Shame on you.
Well, sometimes people getaccess to them.
Okay, you're going to show themto everybody and make people
pay for them.
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
They go in trouble.
I don't know what the status isof them now and I got to be
honest with you.
I don't know a lot of I have.
I have one friends who we kindof started out together and she
(53:56):
she started doing to do aYouTube channel.
She's, she's incredible, she'ssmart, she's, she's resourceful
and she digs in and she'sfactual and she's legitimate
can't speak to.
I mean, you can tell me,otherwise I'm.
I don't sit and watch a lot ofYouTube stuff, but some of this
stuff is just very gross andopportunistic and exploitative
(54:18):
and I don't want to be like that.
But you know, when you see astory like that where someone is
using someone's pain and wecould accuse everybody you could
accuse me of using someone'spain I can handle it right.
I work really hard to not bethat person.
When I started the show and Isaid you know, these stories
aren't ours, we're borrowingthese stories and it's like when
(54:43):
I brought my puppy home, shewas this big and I thought
you're like a little baby birdand I'm going to break you.
You have to be very carefulwith these stories because
there's so much more at stakewith these people, these
families, these lives and I hopenone of you ever.
And I'm sorry that you lostyour friends, I'm sorry that you
(55:03):
even know the pain of this andBeth Brody's family.
I'm sorry.
It's been a long time.
I hope that you've learned andhealed and it makes you
compassionate too.
It's not a game and that's howI try to look at this.
I started very differently.
I started being a radio DJwhere everything was a joke and
(55:24):
everything was.
I just want to get the laughand I still do want to get the
laugh, but not at the expense ofany of these people or any of
these emotions or any of thesecases.
I hope that comes off when I dothis, right.
I hope you recognize that whenyou listen to me.
So there are a number of othercases that I listed that I had
(55:49):
hoped to get to.
I just couldn't, I justcouldn't, I just couldn't.
Claire Gravel, Beverly.
Callie Harrison, Rockport.
Callie Harrison is the littlegirl who went missing from the
beach.
She was a toddler.
They're not entirely sure whathappened.
We think now I mean, it's beena lot of years we think now that
(56:11):
she probably got washed away inthe ocean on the beach.
Some of these names might seemmore familiar than others, like
Jesus de la Cruz, a little boyfrom Lynn who disappeared.
No idea what happened to thatlittle boy.
No one knows still, at leastnot publicly.
The story of Colleen Ritzer.
(56:32):
We, a lot of us, have heard thestory of Colleen.
She was killed.
She was a Danvers High Schoolmath teacher.
She was killed by a student.
The student was arrested, tried, convicted and is now just
recently, this week, trying toget a new trial.
Imagine that.
(56:52):
So so many of these cases Iwanted to try to cover today.
But we'll do this again If youwant me to come back, if you
have stuff you want me to cover,if there's something I don't
know about that I've never heardabout, tell me.
Tell me, I'm happy to do it.
Thank you, listen to thepodcast.
(57:13):
If you're into that, follow theshow, contact me.
Thank you to off cabot forhosting.
Thank you to everybody here.
Thank you to that.
We're not done yet.
We're gonna open it up to someQ&A.
We can talk about whatever youwant.
If there's a case that wehaven't touched on, if there's
something you want to add towhat we've talked about, there's
something on the podcast thatyou heard.
If, if there's another casethere was a lot of interest in
(57:34):
some of the other high-profilecases if you want to talk about
them.
But I thank you for being here.
I thank you for indulging me alittle bit and watching me cry
and make jokes at the same timeAt the back.
I want to point out, at the backof the table.
There's stickers and there'ssome other cases that you know
definitely require attention,some that I've covered, some
that I have not.
(57:55):
Yet Some people have asked meabout merch.
I don't carry t-shirts andthings like, but I do have a lot
of stuff on the website.
So if you go to Crime of theTruest Kind.
com and hit the store, my storewill pop up.
If you use the code VIP, youget a discount.
(58:16):
And just like that, that's whatone of our live shows sounds
like.
Give or take some tears.
Comingup up, the The bonus Q&A
portion of the show from October10th at Off Cabot in Beverly,
Massachusetts.
You can find the slides fromthe show at crimeofthetruestkind
(58:37):
.
com crimeofthetruestkindcom.
Go to the episode page, episode74.
Thank you to everybody whoparticipated in the Q&A and
thank you to Sean and Stephanieand the family of Beth Brodie.
We cover even more cases in theQ&A, so go now and listen to
(58:58):
the bonus segment number two.
I'm going to go and, yes, lockyour goddamn doors.
Well, hello, my name is Anngell Wood and this is
Crime of the Truest Kind.
(00:23):
Well, to say it has been aninteresting couple of weeks is
quite the understatement.
Our live shows have becomepretty great.
What I mean is they're special,intimate, interactive, a meetup
of listeners and I don't knowlocal crime aficionados.
People bring their own stories,which are also great to hear.
(00:48):
I met several people at thelast Off Cabot show who had
connections to some of the casesthat I spoke about, including
the family members of one of thecases included in the show.
I had a few moments.
We felt some feelings.
I went back and forth with whatI should include and what should
(01:12):
go out of this live showsegment, starting with the
inaudible parts of the recordingthat weren't intended for
sharing.
I did some editing to make it alittle bit more palatable to
you, the listener.
It's heavy subject matter butimportant information to share,
(01:32):
and the shows are really lovelyand I've enjoyed doing them.
So I have split this in twoparts.
I have included thepresentation and the second half
is the Q&A where we were ableto capture almost all of the
(01:55):
audio, which is tough with aroom full of people.
Information about all of thecases I cover, posted at
crimeofthetruestkindcom on theepisodes page, including the
slides that were used as part ofthe presentation.
If you want the entire feed,it's available for patrons on
Patreon unedited, in all itsglory.
(02:17):
Thank you to all our patrons onPatreon, including Lisa
McColgan, superstar EP, and ourfriends who support via.
Give the dog a bone, drop a tipin the jar.
You are truly and actuallygiving my spoiled dogs a bone.
(02:39):
My name is Angelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind Massachusetts and New
England crime stories.
Follow the show at Crime of theTruest Kind, tell your friends
about it, share it on socialmedia, leave a five star rating
and review on Apple podcasts.
I would be most appreciative.
(03:00):
Would be most appreciative.
People ask me pretty regularlywhen a new live show will be
scheduled.
Nothing for the remainder ofthis year.
I definitely have new things instore for 2025, including other
locations, and I welcome yoursuggestions.
I split the live show in twoparts.
(03:23):
This is part one, thepresentation.
Part two, you will see, is thebonus, including the Q&A.
Episode 74, North Shore CrimeCases recorded live at Off Cabot
in Beverly, Massachusetts.
(04:00):
(Applause) I should add thatChris is the set designer and I
did not bring these feathersfrom home, but you are
extraordinary.
Never forget it.
All right, well, thank youeverybody for being here, and so
many of you have never been toOff Cabot before.
Thank you for coming it before.
(04:26):
Thank you for coming.
I have been doing this forabout three and a half years and
I started to do live shows andit's worked out.
You seem to be pretty into it.
Yeah, you're all here, so thatsays something A little bit
about me.
For those of you who aren'taware, I do a podcast.
(04:46):
I talk about New England crimestories.
There's a little history thrownin there, because I like that a
little snark, try to keep thatto a minimum.
I can sometimes make some jokes, but never at the expense of
the victims or their families.
I can make fun of perpetrators,I can make fun of anything
(05:07):
associated with that, but neverat the expense of anybody who's
directly involved with any ofthese things, because, keep in
mind, these are some of theworst days of people's lives, so
I'm very mindful about that.
I started my career on radio.
Everybody here seems to be ofthe age where you know what
radio is.
Thank you for being here.
(05:29):
You might have children orgrandchildren that say what's
radio.
Well, we know we're a specialgroup of people.
I worked at a radio stationWFNX.
Some of you here on the NorthShore might know that I worked
at a station called WBCN RIP,wbcn.
(05:49):
It is no more.
I worked for a radio stationthat does still exist, but
before they played Billy Joel.
I like Billy Joel, but it was athing.
Wzlx is still in existence.
So I've done all these thingsand my passion for radio has
shifted.
I mean, I love my time inexistence.
So I've done all these thingsand my passion for radio has
shifted.
I mean, I love my time in radio.
I loved it was great, but radiois very different.
(06:12):
And when I started podcasting alot of the things that I
learned in my radio life, theycame in very handy.
When I decided to try this truecrime thing Researching,
writing, you know, theproduction stuff came pretty
easily.
I'm not afraid to talk on a micand I love New England, so
(06:34):
being able to do all of thesethings together it was really
great.
And then I started learningabout advocacy and what that is,
because when I first starteddoing true crime I was probably
like a lot of you, I consumedall of it.
I love, you know nonfiction,read the books, watched the
(06:55):
documentaries I still do Netflix, all of these things but I
didn't really understandeverything that it entailed, and
when I say that I mean theimpact of what happens to the
people that are in these stories.
These are not our stories.
We borrow these stories and weshould take very good care of
(07:15):
them.
So when I talk about thesecases, I do it very, I try to do
it very respectfully and I tryto learn from all of it.
So am I the kind of podcasterwho wants to crack a case?
Well, sure, I would love to beable to help a case, but I'm not
an investigator, I'm definitelynot a cop, surprise but I care
(07:41):
about it, but I care about it.
So I try to learn and I havesurrounded myself with a lot of
other very knowledgeable andinteresting people in this true
crime space who have taught methings, particularly how to
advocate for other people.
So if I can share anything withyou and I'll give you a little
(08:02):
call to action, a littletake-home when we're done but if
I can share anything with allof you who are interested in
true crime, like I am, because Ireally am, I'm not going to
pretend that I'm some stuffysanctimonious person.
I watch all the shit on Netflix.
I will tell you what I do.
I watch it all.
My husband says really Can wenot watch a murder show tonight?
He's right there rolling sound.
(08:23):
Thank you, Paul Gallo, but I dolike it.
And I do want to say this aboutadvocacy we can all be advocates
every single one of us in thisroom because you can share some
information on the Internet.
Somebody's missing.
(08:44):
The most important thing we cando is try to get attention on
that case immediately, to try tofind that person, because we
know it's very serious at thestart of whatever it is.
However, whatever the detailsare surrounding that person's
disappearance we're not reallysure yet, but we really try to
get the word out and hopefullyit turns out the way we hope it
(09:06):
does that that person is found,they come back to their family
and then that information can goaway forever and as civilians
we are not obligated, or noone's obligated, to tell us what
happened to that person.
So I feel like I am getting alittle sanctimonious right now
and I don't mean to.
But you are all advocates inthis room.
You can all help be a part ofsupporting that family
(09:29):
supporting that missing person.
We all want the right thing tohappen.
We want that person to comehome safely and if that entails
us never hearing another thingabout it, well, that's the right
of the family to not tell uswhat happened.
A child went missing.
They were found, you don't needto know why.
That kid's safe.
End of discussion.
And people have said to meonline I've said okay, well, we
(09:52):
don't need to know.
Well, I do, I was very investedin this and I shared the thing.
Thank you for doing that.
But now we're going to let thefamily deal with what they're
dealing with.
So you're all advocates in thisroom.
That means if something happensto someone and you really care
about it, we want you to takeaction and try to help that
family.
Thanks, you're all advocates.
Thank you for coming.
(10:12):
Good night.
Well, thank you for being here.
When I talked about this date, Ihad some people ask me what I
was going to talk about and Isaid, well, what do you want to
talk about?
Because I'll talk aboutwhatever you want, as long as
(10:32):
it's, you know, relevant to whatI do on the show and relevant
to, you know, new England.
And we will do a Q&A at the end.
If you have any questions, youwant to hear about anything, you
want to talk about stuff, we'llopen it up to you.
And I got some feedback aboutwell, you're on the North Shore,
maybe you should talk aboutNorth Shore cases.
I'm like, great idea, let's doit.
So this is my podcastMassachusetts and New England
(10:54):
True Crime Regional History,advocacy Focus.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
If you did not know, I do apodcast.
Now you know this story Ilearned about over the last
couple of days.
I was not aware of this casebased in Beverly, Massachusetts,
in 1990.
Has anyone in here heard thecase of Marcia Biancardi?
Are you from Beverly?
(11:15):
Yeah, so you probably heardthis growing up.
Right, it happens on 39Livingstone Street, which is
about a five-minute drive fromwhere we sit right now.
Marsha Susan Biancardi was 16years old.
She died February 14, 1990.
(11:35):
When word reached her highschool over the PA, remember
when they did that in highschool, when all of the
announcements came over the PAand staff and students learned
that she died.
They were shocked, of course,but even more confused when they
learned that they were sayingthat it was at her own hand that
(11:56):
she hurt herself and herfriends were like there's
absolutely no way.
There's no way that thathappened.
There's no way that she didthis.
She was 16.
She was cheering, she wasstarting to sing in the choral
group or the choir, whateverthey called it in Beverly High
in 1990.
(12:17):
They just knew there's no waythis happened.
And for those of you who grew upin the 80s, did your hair look
like this?
Because mine did.
I have the pictures to prove it.
They couldn't figure out forthe life of them what happened.
(12:40):
And why, why, how, how, how,how.
I mean that's the questions allof us would ask, right, if our
friend, we learned this aboutour friend and then we feel
guilty and did we miss the signs?
And things were very differentin 1990 about what we thought
about this and what we called it, and the language has changed
and all of these things.
The questions loomed about howMarcia this you know, probably
(13:06):
petite 16-year-old girl couldhave taken a shotgun and shot
herself in her abdomen.
There are all the questionsassociated with that how she did
that, how she reached thetrigger.
She had no gunpowder residue onher hands.
I'm not CSI, but we've seenenough episodes to know like you
check their hands and you gounder there.
(13:26):
But police suspected somethingbecause just the nature of the
case and Audrey, Marcia's sistertold friends right after this
that she was afraid.
She was afraid of her mom At14,.
She was witness to a great dealof trauma and the words that
she shared with her friends madeit back to authorities.
(13:48):
And, of course, authoritieswere already on top of this and
they were investigating it.
And you see the cover of theDaily Evening Item, which is
confusing.
Is it night or day?
What do you want it to be?
I think they have since changedit right.
Well, you figured out that themom was charged.
The relationship between motherand older daughter was hard, 16
(14:12):
years old.
I remember when I was 16 yearsold.
I'm sure I was an asshole, butwhat was also going on is there
was problems with the parents'marriage.
It was very stressful and themom was dealing with mental
health issues and I'm not evengoing to begin to try to laundry
list what they were.
(14:33):
We're thinking probably abipolar situation or something
like that.
Again, the language wasdifferent then.
I believe a number of reportssaid manic depression.
We don't call it that anymore.
Susan Bian cardi was just 42.
Imagine this for a minute.
42 seems so young to getarrested and go to prison, and
(14:54):
that's what happened to Susan Bincardi.
She was charged withfirst-degree murder.
She faced life in prison.
Her surviving daughter stood byher mother because she believed
that her mom was very sick andshe thought that if she could
get her mom help, maybe thatwould change the situation and
she would still have her mom.
(15:15):
The defense used the insanityclaim, which doesn't really work
in court, much does it.
She was found they were thejury the first trial.
The jury rejected that claim.
She was sentenced to life inprison and then that was
overturned.
There was a new trial based onwhere they gave her a second
(15:41):
chance based on the instructionsthat were given to the jury on
the first trial.
As I understand it, the jurywasn't aware of the fact that to
say that she's not guilty byreason of mental defect or
insanity, that she wasn't goingto walk free because nobody on
(16:02):
this jury wanted her to just gohome and continue life, who
would she?
She murdered her child and Ishould also add that she also
tried to shoot her youngerdaughter, who was 14 at the time
, audrey, but there was amisfire.
So, audrey, imagine that for amoment the trauma of her seeing
(16:22):
what happened with her sisterand then her mother making the
same attempt on her, and thenthe mom she witnessed her mom
trying to do the same to herselfTwo misfires.
But it's very traumatic forthis child.
She was re -sentenced.
She was sent to the mentalhealth unit at MCI Framingham.
(16:45):
Her first bid for parole wasdenied in 2007 because she did
not seem sorry, she didn'tremember.
She claimed she didn't rememberany of it, she didn't seem
remorseful.
But then in 2010, she wasgranted parole and, like a lot
of Massachusetts people do, shemoved to Florida.
(17:07):
I think I believe she's stillalive.
Where the other daughter is, Idon't know.
She has a right to privacy, soI didn't try to dig too terribly
much into that.
So I had never heard the storybefore until I started
researching for this showtonight.
Beverly 1990.
Beverly 1990.
This is one of the cases that Igot a request for.
(17:31):
This is one of the cases thatwas.
I get a lot of requests to talkabout Martha Brailsford and
we're going to do that.
Martha, a talented artist,lived in Salem, was she?
Oh, so you knew her well.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
She seems amazing.
I mean, she seems like anincredibly talented lady.
(17:54):
Did you know this other personresponsible?
Oh my gosh, I know, I knowthat's good news, right, and he
did that a lot, didn't he?
He got a lot of chances at that, didn't he?
They were friends, they werefriendly, right, and he
convinced her to go sailing onhis I think anybody that has a
(18:18):
big boat that boat's probablypretty magnificent.
July 12, 1991,.
The man's name was ThomasMaimone, did I get it right?
He was 46.
Pretty young guy, engineer,living in Salem, worked for
Parker Brothers Games Boardgames.
We all know what board gamesare.
(18:39):
We're a mature, smart, kindpeople.
She agreed she went on the boatfor a sail.
Now we won't really know muchelse that happens, because the
only information that we reallyhave is from the perpetrator,
and he has been called apathological liar in just about
(19:00):
everything that I've read abouthim.
She was last seen boarding his28 foot sailboat counterpoint at
the Salem Willows at the pier.
Her husband came home from workthat Friday night.
She wasn't there.
It looked like she hadn't beenthere for a while.
I mean, we know each other'shabits, right?
(19:21):
You live with somebody for along time, you know what they do
.
There was no sign that she hadbeen home.
He knew Maimone went toquestion him, knew that they had
seen each other earlier thatday.
He agreed yeah, I saw her, butI haven't seen her since.
He said he had seen her butdenied anything past that.
(19:47):
Then Maimone was questioned bypolice and I got this.
You know you can't see.
Oh, you can.
I pulled this little map fromone of the archives where you
see the willows and then you seeeventually where she will be
found.
When questioned by police, hefirst said that the weather
turned rough and Martha got offat Winter Island and whatever he
(20:13):
did, he sailed on his merry way, I don't know.
Six days passed and Martha wasfound by a lobsterman fishing
off the coast of Marblehead.
She was unrecognizable due toshe had been in the water for a
week.
She appeared to have been naked.
She had a diving belt aroundher body with an anchor tied
(20:34):
around her ankle.
Investigators believe she waskilled because she refused this
man's advances.
Now this man had reportedly, asI understand it had had taken
other women for sales that lived.
Another one of his.
(20:54):
Pardon, any misspellings?
There's no spell check on thisprogram.
Another explanation was that arogue wave hit the boat.
The mast hit Martha and shefell overboard.
I don't know, I've never saileda sailboat surprise in Salem
Harbor, but does a rogue wavejust well up in Salem Harbor?
(21:19):
Anybody here who's nautical canplease tell me that that's the
case.
Again, he was called apathological liar.
He spun several versions, onceclaiming to have pulled her out
of the water after she haddrowned.
At one point he said he hadgiven her CPR.
(21:42):
Again, we can't believeanything he says.
Any true account of this.
He never shared with you knowwhatever he told investigators.
He never spoke to her familyabout what really happens.
Why would he?
He never told the courts whatreally happens.
In February 1993, he wasconvicted of second-degree
murder and sentenced to lifewith the chance of parole.
(22:05):
He continued his lies and anyattempts at release failed.
You know he would make allkinds of excuses before the
parole board.
They do that.
That's their M.
O.
I didn't do anything.
It wasn't my fault.
I wasn't involved.
There was a rogue wave.
They did not let him out and hedied in prison in 2017.
(22:30):
Several books and movies havebeen made about Martha's story.
I have not watched any of them.
I don't know if you can vouchfor anything that has come out
about her story that may befactual.
I have a hard time sometimesreading these things because
they can be a bit exploitative.
Would you agree?
I don't know what became of herhusband.
(22:53):
Maybe he's still in the area,I'm not sure.
Maybe you know better than I do.
I do know this that she trustedhim enough to get on the
sailboat with him and he wasn'tworthy of any of that.
He wasn't worthy of any of thattrust.
(23:13):
October is Domestic ViolenceAwareness Month.
It's something that ispervasive in our society.
Still, there is help availablefor anyone who's dealing with
this.
It's very important that I addthat there are ways where you
can get help to get out of it.
I hope that nobody in this roomwhere you can get help to get
out of it.
I hope that nobody in this roomright now is affected by it,
(23:36):
but I am sure that every singleone of us knows somebody who is
affected by it and we canadvocate for them.
Resources available locallyJane Doe Inc.
You can go to their website.
Janedoeorg Resources here inthe North Shore.
Go to their website, Janedoe.
org.
Resources here in the NorthShore.
In Salem it's HAWC HealingAbuse, working for Change.
(23:59):
I don't know if many peopleheard the story of Nayeli Nieves
.
She died last year in Salem, 20years old.
It is believed that she waskilled on or around August 5th
inside her 12 Pope Streetapartment.
Family members were concernedwhen they hadn't heard from her
(24:20):
after about a week.
A man named Pablo Vicente, 33years old, her boyfriends and
father of her two kids I knowwhat you're thinking she was 20,
he was 33.
What the actual fuck?
Because I said the exact samething.
He admitted to killing her.
(24:46):
He admitted to keeping her bodyin the apartment for a series
of days, about three days,before wrapping her up, bringing
her out to the dumpster andthrowing her away.
Her family would rather thatnot be the case.
(25:09):
Her family is still looking forher.
It's been over a year and shehas not been found.
Yes, it poses a lot ofquestions.
Nayeli Nieves has not beenfound.
Her children were ages 3 and 18months.
They were taken into statecustody.
He has been held charged withher murder.
(25:34):
I don't know the status of itright now, one of the things
that I think I've.
I had another slide of her andI think I lost it.
Sorry that we know about twoprior instances of domestic
violence in this relationship,one of which happened in Salem,
(25:55):
one of which happened in LowellI believe the most recent one
had been April of that yearApril of 2023, where he was
arrested and held.
Prosecutors wanted him, theywanted bail to be revoked, but
the judge refused and let him go.
Her family says if they wouldhave just held him, maybe there
(26:17):
was a chance we could havegotten her out of this Didn't
work, and now she's gone andshe's missing and her children
don't have a mom.
She was very young.
I know there are a lot ofquestions surrounding that, but
we know that sometimes, as hardas we try to work to get
something, to get somebody outof something, they think that's
(26:39):
where they should be and that'swhy we need to talk about it and
make sure people know thatthere's a way out.
Even at 20 years old with twolittle children, there is a way
out and there's a there.
It's hard, but there's a wayout.
Look her up, learn more abouther.
She mattered.
We know this one right.
(27:03):
I always get a little emotional, sorry.
This is a tough one becausethis is another young woman.
Amy Carnevale lived in Beverly.
She went to Beverly High, shewas a cheerleader, she was on
her way.
She was a kid.
She met this boy.
(27:24):
They started dating.
You know, I don't know.
I don't have an experiencebeing 14 years old and being
feeling I was madly in love withsomebody and thought we're
going to be together forever.
At 14, I think I was stillroller skating and I don't know,
probably watching cartoons.
I mean I, you know, um, theyhad this on again, off again,
(27:46):
association.
I don't want to call it arelationship because when you're
that age, there's, there'snothing really.
I don't know, I don't reallyfeel like you have any idea what
romantic love is.
Maybe, I mean maybe in theolden days, when people got
married at that very young age.
I don't know what her familyknew.
I don't know what her familyknew about what was going on.
She was very young, but nobodyelse is responsible for what
(28:09):
happened to her.
But the person who harmed herAmy's not responsible.
Her family's not responsible,as much as they may feel
responsibility.
Of course, I don't blameanybody, but the person who did
this.
She met a boy in school namedJamie Fuller.
(28:30):
He was 16.
They had this on and offassociation and he had been
pretty open about his intent.
He had planned to hurt her andtold people about it.
And then he acted on that plan.
August 23rd 1991, he lured Amyaway from her home under the
(28:50):
guise of wanting a haircut andyes, it was 1991, and he had a
mullet.
You can see it in the research,but it was 1991.
But she was very talented andshe was really interested in
being a hairstylist and that washer dream at that age was to do
(29:12):
that, and he knew that.
So he used that information tolure her and she agreed to go
see him.
She agreed to give him ahaircut and he and some of his
friends.
She came to their house.
He and some friends were thereat his house in Beverly and then
he somehow got her to go on awalk.
(29:37):
They went into the woods.
He stabbed her viciously many,many, many times, details of
which came out.
The brutality in what he did isjust unspeakable.
She was 14 years old.
He was very young, too 16.
I can't put myself in thatmindset.
(29:58):
Who could?
And her pleas angered him.
So he brutalized her even moreand he left her there.
He left her there and thenreturned to France.
His friends didn't think hewould actually do it.
He's like oh, I did it.
Basically, come and see what Idid.
(30:19):
They returned, wrapped up herbody, put her in the car and
drove her to Shoe Ponds, wherethey weighted her down and
dumped her in the water.
She was missing.
Her family was concerned.
Now, of course, he denied anyinvolvement in that he would be
arrested, charged, convicted oflife in prison, without the
(30:42):
chance of parole, at 16 yearsold.
And then his mother and herboyfriend concocted a plan to
break him out of prison.
They all got caught.
Yes, he had some idea where Idon't know who thought of it
they're all brain surgeons,clearly he had some idea where I
(31:03):
know I'll get hurt and we'llhave to go to the, they'll have
to take me out and go to thehospital and then you can
intervene and then you can stealme and we can and we can go
away to wherever you thoughtthey would go.
They failed, they all gotcaught.
The mom went to jail, theboyfriend clearly got in trouble
(31:34):
too.
But it doesn't stop there.
You think here, you think thisguy's going to go to prison
forever and he's never going toget out.
And then the MassachusettsSupreme Judicial Court changed
the ruling on juvenile lifers,and this is something that I've
learned quite a lot about overthe last several months.
(31:55):
Jamie Fuller became eligible forparole.
He went before the parole boardthis year.
He was denied in August, rightaround the anniversary of Amy's
murder Not the same day butwithin days of the anniversary
(32:15):
of her murder.
He was denied but he won't.
I guarantee you he's not goingto stop trying, because that's
what these people do.
So this is beth.
Today is her birthday.
Her brother is here.
I knew this was going to happen.
(32:42):
I've talked about her case.
You've probably heard it.
I hope you've listened to it.
If you haven't, please go back.
Her case is not as high profileas Amy's was.
I know that they talked aboutit.
I know it was in the press, butit doesn't make it any less
(33:04):
impactful or any less cruel.
In the fall of 1992, she was ahappy girl going to high school
cheerleading Pentucket,pentucket.
Anybody go to Pentucket, notyou.
She had been acquaintances withthis boy named Richard Baldwin.
They had spent some timetogether, but they weren't
(33:26):
boyfriend and girlfriend, as thepress would at the time would
have you believe, because itmakes for a good story, right,
boyfriend kills his girl.
No, that wasn't the case at all.
The boy had gone to school withBeth and other.
You know Beth's sister, sopeople knew.
(33:46):
People knew him in the circleright.
They had a neighbor that knewthem, they, they had a mutual
friend, the neighbor.
But then Baldwin moved away.
He had a shitty family We'veheard that story.
Right, he was depressed,whatever the case.
And then he and Beth had hungout.
They didn't date, they were notboyfriend and girlfriend.
(34:08):
And then they had spent sometime together, beth Baldwin and
the neighbor.
They went to the mallRockingham Mall, I think right
the day before, on November 17th.
(34:28):
He had, for whatever reason,developed some sort of idea in
his head that they had arelationship.
They didn't.
I can't stress that enough.
They were not boyfriend andgirlfriend.
Beth, smart as a whip, shedidn't.
She wasn't into it.
She's like let's just befriends.
She was a kid.
(34:50):
I mean, none of us were intoromantic love then.
We didn't know what romanticlove was right If you were
romantically in love withsomeone at 15 years old.
Okay, he wasn't romantically inlove, by the way, he was
demented.
(35:19):
So in his head he orchestrated aplot he was going to drive from
Peabody to Groveland, go to theneighbor's house, have the
neighbor who was mutual friends,have Beth come over so they
could talk.
I don't know what he think.
What he thought he was going toget from it was he going to get
closure?
I mean, you're fucking 16.
What kind of closure is thereright?
What he thought he was going toget from it Was he going to get
closure?
I mean, you're fucking 16.
What kind of closure is thereright?
It was all a ruse to get Bethto come over.
(35:42):
He premeditated this.
He got her alone and he tookout a baseball bat and he hit
her with the baseball batViolently, brutally.
She did not make it.
Her family had to see thisUnforgivable.
He admitted that he did it.
(36:03):
He left the neighborhood inGroveland.
The high school was very close,pentucket was very close.
He went over there.
I guess he ate pills, drankbooze and was supposedly going
to kill himself, had secondthoughts, went into the school,
(36:25):
talked to some of the staffersthere.
The principal, I think, calledthe ambulance.
He went to Hale Hospital.
At the time Hale Hospitaldoesn't exist anymore and he was
asking questions like has ithit the news yet?
Because somewhere in thedemented minds of these people,
(36:45):
these perpetrators, I think theyfeel like there's fame at stake
.
Right, they do these things.
We see it oftentimes with massshooters in schools and
otherwise.
They feel like they're going togo out in a blaze of glory,
like they're going to go down inhistory as some I don't know
what they think they're going togo down in history as.
(37:08):
He was arrested, he was charged,he was convicted.
He was charged, he wasconvicted.
He was given a life sentencewithout the chance of parole.
But much like what happens withJamie Fuller in Beverly in the
Amy Carnevale case, he couldthen go up for parole.
(37:31):
He went up for parole.
He went up for parole this year.
I was there with Beth's familyThank you for including me and I
listened to this boy-now-mandefinitely arrested development
because he's been in prisonsince he was 16 years old.
(37:52):
Just go on and on and I hope younever have to go to a parole
hearing ever.
I wish this on none of you.
I wish none of this evertouches your life in a personal
way where you have to thinkabout this at night.
But these perpetrators, theseconvicted killers, get to sit
(38:16):
there before the parole board.
It's five or six people andthey get to just talk and talk
and talk and kind of like whatI'm doing now, but I'm a good
person and they just get to talk.
And I'm watching this and I'mthinking I can't even believe
what I'm witnessing right now.
(38:37):
You know, trying to, it'severybody's fault and this
happened.
And then he talks about, heuses some you know, spirituality
with his ancestors.
I'm like that's?
Do you just read a book anddiscover that because that might
work?
I don't think so.
It didn't work.
He goes on and on and on andthe family gets to speak.
Unbelievable the impact.
(39:01):
You can't walk away from that.
The same, I'm happy to say.
He did not get parole.
He had had a couple ofopportunities.
The timeline is that he had hada chance a few years ago and he
(39:23):
didn't.
He didn't take the opportunity,thankfully, but it wasn't
without putting the Brodies andBeth's family through living
hell In this parole hearing.
It's astounding Because they'reasking him questions Well, did
you do this?
He didn't do anything.
(39:44):
These people don't generally doanything to prepare for their
parole hearing.
For their parole hearing theyneed to have had established
some kind of plan torehabilitate.
I don't know.
I don't think prison is theplace for rehabilitation for
people with violent tendencieslike this.
(40:05):
That's a whole otherconversation for us to have.
This person is clearly ill.
Those kinds of actions thatdoesn't cross my mind ever.
Someone makes me mad.
That stuff doesn't cross mymind ever, but one of the things
that so he was denied,thankfully, and he will have a
(40:26):
chance again eventually, andI'll be there again eventually,
and I'll be there again.
Happy birthday, Beth.
There's a lot of things thatbother me about this and I take
it very personally.
Who do you think you are tomake this decision for these
(40:46):
women?
You have no right.
I didn't plan on coming up hereand crying before you, but,
having a vulnerable moment, Ishould go back to making jokes.
Who do these people think theyare to make these choices for
women?
And I am talking about?
You know, all of the storiesthat I prepared for today are
(41:09):
about women.
I do definitely research andcover cases about children and
men, but this stuff isparticularly it's close to my
heart because of the nature ofthese things.
These girls, these women, hadlives to live.
They had dreams to fulfill,dreams that they didn't even
(41:32):
know about yet.
You know Beth, she didn't evenhave a chance to be Beth.
We knew Beth, as I didn't.
I didn't know her, but I'vecome to know her and she's
helped me be a better advocate.
I just don't understand why.
I mean, I know there's a lot offactors involved, but the fact
(41:53):
that someone took her agencyfrom her.
She didn't get to choose thatday.
What would happen if she wouldlive to be 16, if she got to get
her braces off, if she wasgonna go to that concert or
watch her favorite show?
Somebody took that choice awayfrom her.
(42:14):
It's unforgivable.
I've talked to her family.
Sean is here, her brother and Ilike to.
When I talk about these peopleand these stories, I like to
kind of imagine what their lifemay have been like.
I try to write a story for them.
(42:35):
You know somebody like Beth.
She'd be like a prosecutor.
You know what I mean.
She'd be putting thesemotherfuckers in jail.
She would be because she wasreally smart.
She was shy, but she was young.
She would have been kick-ass.
I know for a fact.
(42:57):
It's just tough to know thatthese boys now men were so
broken, for whatever reason.
That's not up to us to decide.
Bad families yes, a lot of uscome from bad families, but I'm
not going to hurt anybody.
We've all gotten angry, we'veall felt wronged or, you know,
(43:21):
we've all had our hearts broken.
We've all been in love.
We've had our hearts broken.
We've lost people.
People have come and gone fromour lives, but we don't react
this way.
So there's something wrong.
Clearly there's something wrongwith these boys.
Now, men, they're where theybelong.
They're in prison.
(43:42):
They should stay there.
This is a case that I coveredvery early in the podcast.
This is like episode five orsix.
Kristen Crowley lived inPeabody.
She was a young woman, she was27.
This happened in 1996.
(44:03):
On the night of June 1st, twoex-Marines and former roommates
lied to their girlfriend this ishow I wrote it, so I just kind
of pulled this from my scriptLied to their girlfriends and
headed to the local strip clubwhere they spent hours drinking
and propositioning the dancers.
It was the golden banana, youbet, did they?
(44:26):
Well, it seems right.
They left.
They failed to convince any ofthe women who worked at the club
to leave with them.
They happened upon thisstunning young woman, kristen.
They were at that localconvenience store and I've
driven by this a bunch of timesand there's a store like the
(44:49):
Golden Bananas here on Route 1.
And there's a gas station slashconvenience store right here
and I think, I think that's theone it was.
And so since I've done thiscase, people have messaged me
and said, yeah, I was workingthere that night and they just
wanted to share their story.
It was nothing that I includedin the podcast or anything.
But you know, subsequently theywere like I was there and these
(45:10):
guys, and she wasn't doinganything wrong.
It's like clearly she wasn'tdoing anything wrong, but they
made it out that she was doingsomething wrong and I'll explain
.
These men saw her.
She was very striking, gorgeouswoman.
You know.
One of the guys looked at theother guy and said, oh, that
looks like the girl that wasjust at the club.
Within an hour of them seeingher, she was dead.
(45:31):
They spotted her at the gasstation, followed her.
She got her items, drove to hercondo in Peabody.
These men followed her.
They accosted her.
They dragged her out of her car.
She fought and she fought hard.
She fought for her life.
They dragged her into the woods.
They tried to sexually assaulther.
(45:55):
Remember, they had beendrinking at the club for a long
time.
They beat her with a rock andleft her there.
A large boulder and a two-poundrock were found near her.
Both were covered entirely withblood.
There were pieces of her hair,very obvious signs of a struggle
.
Her cause of death was blunttrauma to the head and neck,
(46:16):
resulting in multiple skullfractures, jaw fractures and
severe this is my language, notthe language that came from the
report severe injury to herbrain.
She had defensive wounds on herhands.
She fought like hell againstthese men.
But one of the things, manythings, bother me about this
(46:37):
case, everything I talked aboutbeth and amy and all of these
women beforehand come into play.
So the men they were found, youknow, located, implicated,
arrested, charged.
He got 15 years to life, a mannamed timothy dykens, convicted
of first degree murder.
All of this is made worse bythe way that she was written
(47:02):
about in the news.
It was called the strippermurder, the dancer murder.
Like she became a non-personfrom that point on.
She became a headline.
She didn't have a name.
She was the stripper, she wasthe girl who left the club.
So to clarify and it was reallyimportant for me to and I talked
(47:23):
to a couple of reporters, itwas a woman from Salem News that
I spoke to at length about thisI said you know, they
disparaged her in the media,calling her a stripper and et
cetera.
This reporter's response tothat was and I still don't
really know how I feel about it,but it hurts to say it out loud
the reason why she's dead isbecause she fought back so hard.
And I said are you fuckingkidding me?
(47:46):
She fought for her life andthat's the reason why she's dead
, not these two guys that left astrip club because they were
horned out and attacked herbecause she was beautiful.
But that reporter actually hasdone a great deal of work.
I don't really like thatresponse at all because I don't
feel like she did anything todeserve anything that happened
to her.
She just walked into a store toget you know, doritos, mountain
(48:08):
Dew and probably a pack ofbutts.
The truth is that she had donesome parties.
She was recently married.
She came from a good family.
Her family was devastated whenthis happened.
They couldn't understand it.
All of the unfathomable thingsthat occur when you lose a loved
(48:29):
one, especially so brutally,that occur when you lose a loved
one especially so brutally.
But again, this is another caseof these men deciding what was
going to happen to her thatnight.
She fought and she lost becauseof these men deciding that they
wanted to take from her whatshe didn't want to give them.
(48:53):
So Keegan died trying to beparoled.
Oh, that's too bad, dykens.
I don't really know whathappened to him.
I believe he's still in jail.
I'm going to use my line Ticktock, motherfucker, because your
time is coming.
I don't want any of thesepeople to get out of prison.
They're unworthy for society.
(49:15):
Have you rehabilitated?
Very personal feelings that I'msharing with you.
Clearly, I don't know, if youattack a woman and smash her
head in with a rock, that youare rehabilitatable.
Maybe that's just me.
Of course, I need to shareimportant information about
RAINN, National Sexual AssaultHotline.
(49:38):
I understand, having been inthis true crime space, as we
call it.
I understand there are, youknow, we hear the word safe
spaces and triggers.
Those words have beenbastardized, those words have
been stolen from us tomanipulate, but there are really
.
People do experience triggers.
(49:58):
People do need these safespaces.
I talk to families and I sayyou know what, if you tell me
today you want to talk about itand tomorrow you don't, we're
not gonna.
I talked to a woman veryrecently, her sister, Charline
Rosemond, was you want to talkabout it and tomorrow you don't,
we're not going to.
I talked to a woman.
Very recently her sister,Charline Rosemond, was murdered
(50:20):
and found in Somerville in a carin a parking lot, been there
for six days.
We can't figure out why a womanwas shot in the back of the
head and left in a car thatstayed in a parking lot in
Somerville, massachusetts, forsix days and nobody figured it
out.
I don't know, have you everbeen to Somerville?
You know that you can't park inSomerville and a car sat there
for six days with a dead womaninside.
(50:42):
I don't understand any of this.
And the authorities believe shewas there the whole time that
she had been missing from herfamily and they found her
eventually.
Her sister and I spoke veryrecently.
I just put out two episodesabout her case unsolved and her
sister said she's like I want totalk about it and I want people
to know about my sister's story.
(51:03):
But it brings me to a placewhere I have to kind of psych
myself up for it because I know,you know, she could be doing
really well and he could bringher down again.
And I said totally understandif you decide at any point we do
this interview and you say Idon't, I don't want you to do
anything with this, we don'tbecause it triggers things in
(51:23):
you.
It's been 15 years since hersister was murdered.
People know what happened butthey won't talk, they won't tell
.
We need to talk about thesecases.
We need to tell people, we needto express to people that there
are families hurting and ifthere's some way we can let them
(51:44):
know whether it's let them knowor really let authorities know
that you know something, know orreally let authorities know
that you know something, even ifyou think that that little bit
of information is not relevant.
We don't know everything theauthorities know.
So you could connect a dot ordraw a line to something that
the authorities know about orconfirm something that the
(52:06):
authorities already know about.
I can't say that we're allgoing to be.
I mean, I would love to saywe're going to solve crimes.
I would love that, I would liketo be a small cog in the wheel
of solving somebody's pain.
But it's not about that.
I think for some true crimecreator people, it is about, you
know, trying to solve the case.
(52:27):
I'm not a cop, I'm not areporter.
I'm somebody who writes storiesand I research and I read and I
care and I never want to causemore pain to somebody or a
family.
But I got to try every time Ido something like this, because
this stuff it's like thesnowball effect.
I want everybody who isinterested in these subject
(52:51):
matters because I know sometimeswhen I say, oh yeah, I do a
true crime podcast, some peoplego, hmm, because some of it is
very gross.
Right, we know some of it isvery gross.
We've heard the stories.
There was an incident not allthat long ago where there was a
true crime creator that had aYouTube channel and somehow got
(53:11):
access to autopsy photos of achild, took those autopsy photos
of a child and put it behindtheir Patreon paywall and we're
like buy into my Patreon and seethese pictures.
Stop, first of all, you havesomeone's child autopsy photos.
(53:32):
Shame on you.
Well, sometimes people getaccess to them.
Okay, you're going to show themto everybody and make people
pay for them.
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
They go in trouble.
I don't know what the status isof them now and I got to be
honest with you.
I don't know a lot of I have.
I have one friends who we kindof started out together and she
(53:56):
she started doing to do aYouTube channel.
She's, she's incredible, she'ssmart, she's, she's resourceful
and she digs in and she'sfactual and she's legitimate
can't speak to.
I mean, you can tell me,otherwise I'm.
I don't sit and watch a lot ofYouTube stuff, but some of this
stuff is just very gross andopportunistic and exploitative
(54:18):
and I don't want to be like that.
But you know, when you see astory like that where someone is
using someone's pain and wecould accuse everybody you could
accuse me of using someone'spain I can handle it right.
I work really hard to not bethat person.
When I started the show and Isaid you know, these stories
aren't ours, we're borrowingthese stories and it's like when
(54:43):
I brought my puppy home, shewas this big and I thought
you're like a little baby birdand I'm going to break you.
You have to be very carefulwith these stories because
there's so much more at stakewith these people, these
families, these lives and I hopenone of you ever.
And I'm sorry that you lostyour friends, I'm sorry that you
(55:03):
even know the pain of this andBeth Brody's family.
I'm sorry.
It's been a long time.
I hope that you've learned andhealed and it makes you
compassionate too.
It's not a game and that's howI try to look at this.
I started very differently.
I started being a radio DJwhere everything was a joke and
(55:24):
everything was.
I just want to get the laughand I still do want to get the
laugh, but not at the expense ofany of these people or any of
these emotions or any of thesecases.
I hope that comes off when I dothis, right.
I hope you recognize that whenyou listen to me.
So there are a number of othercases that I listed that I had
(55:49):
hoped to get to.
I just couldn't, I justcouldn't, I just couldn't.
Claire Gravel, Beverly.
Callie Harrison, Rockport.
Callie Harrison is the littlegirl who went missing from the
beach.
She was a toddler.
They're not entirely sure whathappened.
We think now I mean, it's beena lot of years we think now that
(56:11):
she probably got washed away inthe ocean on the beach.
Some of these names might seemmore familiar than others, like
Jesus de la Cruz, a little boyfrom Lynn who disappeared.
No idea what happened to thatlittle boy.
No one knows still, at leastnot publicly.
The story of Colleen Ritzer.
(56:32):
We, a lot of us, have heard thestory of Colleen.
She was killed.
She was a Danvers High Schoolmath teacher.
She was killed by a student.
The student was arrested, tried, convicted and is now just
recently, this week, trying toget a new trial.
Imagine that.
(56:52):
So so many of these cases Iwanted to try to cover today.
But we'll do this again If youwant me to come back, if you
have stuff you want me to cover,if there's something I don't
know about that I've never heardabout, tell me.
Tell me, I'm happy to do it.
Thank you, listen to thepodcast.
(57:13):
If you're into that, follow theshow, contact me.
Thank you to off cabot forhosting.
Thank you to everybody here.
Thank you to that.
We're not done yet.
We're gonna open it up to someQ&A.
We can talk about whatever youwant.
If there's a case that wehaven't touched on, if there's
something you want to add towhat we've talked about, there's
something on the podcast thatyou heard.
If, if there's another casethere was a lot of interest in
(57:34):
some of the other high-profilecases if you want to talk about
them.
But I thank you for being here.
I thank you for indulging me alittle bit and watching me cry
and make jokes at the same timeAt the back.
I want to point out, at the backof the table.
There's stickers and there'ssome other cases that you know
definitely require attention,some that I've covered, some
that I have not.
(57:55):
Yet Some people have asked meabout merch.
I don't carry t-shirts andthings like, but I do have a lot
of stuff on the website.
So if you go to Crime of theTruest Kind.
com and hit the store, my storewill pop up.
If you use the code VIP, youget a discount.
(58:16):
And just like that, that's whatone of our live shows sounds
like.
Give or take some tears.
Comingup up, the The bonus Q&A
portion of the show from October10th at Off Cabot in Beverly,
Massachusetts.
You can find the slides fromthe show at crimeofthetruestkind
(58:37):
.
com crimeofthetruestkindcom.
Go to the episode page, episode74.
Thank you to everybody whoparticipated in the Q&A and
thank you to Sean and Stephanieand the family of Beth Brodie.
We cover even more cases in theQ&A, so go now and listen to
(58:58):
the bonus segment number two.
I'm going to go and, yes, lockyour goddamn doors.
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