More from our sold out live in March. We have decades worth of unsolved mysteries and forgotten tragedies in our own backyards. In this continuation of our show at Off Cabot in Beverly, Mass, in March, we plunge into the case of Beryl Atherton—a 47-year-old schoolteacher brutally murdered in her Marblehead home during a 1950 Nor'easter, her throat cut in the sign of a cross. Decades later, her killer remains unidentified and her story largely untold. Beyond the details of these chilling cases lies a deeper exploration of how society treats victims of violent crime. Too often, especially with female victims, their characters become posthumously dissected and villainized—a disturbing pattern that continues from Elizabeth Short (the Black Dahlia, who grew up just miles away in Medford) to modern cases. This victim-blaming serves as a psychological buffer, allowing us to believe such horrors only happen to people who somehow "deserve" it.
Audience members are welcome to share their connections to local crimes. We know these aren't just stories; they're lived experiences that have shaped neighborhoods and families across generations. Most importantly, this episode introduces the work of a new Massachusetts-based victim advocacy coalition formed alongside documentary filmmaker Melanie McLaughlin and forensic anthropologist Dr. Anne-Marie Myers. Our mission exemplifies what I call "everyday advocacy"—sharing accurate information, supporting grieving families, and refusing to sensationalize tragedy at the expense of human dignity.
We learn from these unfiltered conversations is the importance of advocacy. The stories we tell about victims shape how we understand not just crime, but humanity itself.
• Case of Beryl Atherton, a 47-year-old Marblehead teacher murdered in her home during a Nor'easter in 1950
• Discussion of how crime victims are often villainized posthumously, particularly women
• Introduction of a new Massachusetts-based victim advocacy coalition with Anngelle, documentary filmmaker Melanie McLaughlin, and forensic anthropologist Dr. Ann Marie Miers (MMMPAC)
• Open Q&A covering lesser known cases and the controversy around the Karen Reid murder case and its impact on our communities.
More about this show at crimeofthetruestkind.com.
Have a case, location for a show, ask a questiont? Reach out at crimeofthetruestkind@gmail.com and join our growing community of everyday advocates.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anngelle Wood (00:00):
Well, hello, my name is Angelle Wood and this is
Crime of the Truest Kind.
Welcome back.
(00:37):
This is part two of tworecorded live on Thursday, march
13th 2025, at Off Cabot inBeverly, massachusetts.
Off Cabot has become a welcomehome for the show and we will be
back.
This is part two of the liveshow.
If you have not listened topart one, please go back and
listen to episode 82.
While you're there, listen toall the back catalog of Crime of
(01:00):
the Truest Kind.
But this is the second half ofthe live show.
Now, keep in mind it's a liveshow and I welcome crowd
participation.
We try to get everyone on mic.
That proves difficult.
This is part two True CrimeNorth Shore.
This is episode 83.
Send me an email anytime.
Case suggestionscrimeofthetruestkind at gmailcom
(01:21):
.
Truest kind at gmailcom.
Beryl Atherton is a case that Idon't know.
If a lot of people know aboutthis, because it happened so
long ago and there is a bookthat I have not read, so I
haven't.
I haven't dug enough into hercase yet to to present it in an
(01:43):
episode, but there's a book thatwas written, murder and
Marblehead, by Harry Christensenand Rich Santasano.
Sorry, rich, it chronicles herstory and I do plan on reading
it, but her story is horrendousand I'll tell you a little bit.
I'll tell you what I know andsomething that I pulled during
(02:05):
my research earlier.
It was a Saturday night ofThanksgiving weekend in 1950.
A savage Nor'easter batteredthe coast.
We've all gone through theNor'easter right, the Nor'easter
.
In a place like Marblehead itwas probably particularly windy.
Beryl was a single woman.
They called her a spinster thenRemember, the language has
changed.
(02:25):
Today we call her a woman.
She was a spinster.
She was.
I believe she was 47.
She was a teacher in Marblehead.
During this stormy nightsomebody entered her home,
attacked her, strangled her inher kitchen.
They cut her throat in the signof the cross, which is
(02:48):
particularly morbid.
Right, but of course we alsoread things into this.
Was somebody truly like I don'tknow, a devil worshiper,
because this predated satanicpanic by a number of decades?
But I'm sure that flipped a lotof people out.
When she was found they had noidea where to look.
(03:09):
She lived in what they called arundown clapboard cottage at 57
Sewell Street in the old townarea of Marblehead.
Those of you who are familiarwith the area it might make
sense.
She was 47, tall, painfullythin.
This writer called her no closefriends, that they knew of no
known enemies.
(03:30):
I mean, she was a teacherAnybody had.
Well, this is going back a lotof years.
I can't imagine anybody in herewas familiar with her at school
.
Her father was a clergyman whoonce lived with her in that
house.
She didn't do a whole lot.
She went to get her hair done.
She went to get her hair done,she went to the movies.
She taught in Marbleheadschools for more than 25 years.
She was murdered in her homeand that's all we know about
(03:55):
what happened to this woman wholived alone, who was a teacher
minding her own business, and itbecame one of Marblehead's most
infamous maybe cases unsolved.
What in the world happened toBeryl Atherton?
I am going to get that book andI'm going to read it and then I
(04:16):
will.
My plan is to write an episodebased on her case, because I
didn't know about her case priorto starting to really research
more North Shore stuff.
Is anybody familiar with hercase?
Yeah, it's one of thosemysteries.
(04:38):
It's one of those North Shoremysteries.
It's a Marblehead mystery.
Who in the world was sheinvolved with somebody?
We simply don't know, becauseit was 1950.
We really don't know anythingabout her life or really what
she did.
Well, how do they make her outin the book?
(04:59):
Come on, well, what would youexpect?
See what happens to victims ofviolent crime.
(05:22):
They're made out to be likedeplorable people.
When are we going to stopre-victimizing people who have
been victimized?
This is a woman that probablydidn't fucking do anything.
She probably went to school andtook care of her wonderful
school children and came homewho knows?
(05:44):
I mean, there was no Tinderthen she couldn't hook up.
I think the book would anger me, wouldn't it?
I think the book might piss meoff.
Yeah, yep, his co-author waslike, let's throw this in there,
(06:09):
let's say that she was just ahound dog.
I mean, come on, she's not hereto defend herself.
Yeah, yeah, milkman, yeah yeah,they had no way to track
(06:37):
anything.
I mean, today, if any one of usgoes missing and I really never
want to do an episode on any ofyou Today, if anybody goes
missing and I really never wantto do a, I never want to do an
episode on any of you today If,if anybody goes missing, we have
a digital footprint, we canpretty much figure out
everything.
You know, if you're, if you getin a car accident, we can figure
(06:57):
out what your car did right upuntil the moment.
Right, we can pretty muchfigure, I mean, if anything
happens to me, not going to lie,everything is laid out,
everything I've done, everywhereI've been.
Everybody knows my dogs looklike everybody knows what they
did from moment to moment.
Everything about our lives,generally speaking, is has a
(07:19):
digital footprint.
We don't know what she wasdoing.
Like if, if this book suggeststhat she was going into town and
doing all the things based onwhat?
Yeah, that's a good point, yep,that's a good point.
(07:51):
Yep, right, right, villainizedin this way, it often suggests
that it's a way for people tofeel a little bit more
comfortable, like they're not atrisk because that person who
(08:12):
was abducted or hurt or murderedwas up to no good anyway.
So, as long as I feel like I'mon the straight and narrow, so
to speak, nothing like this willhappen to me.
We know that's wrong.
Yeah, and they want to take theresponsibility off the person
(08:34):
who committed the crime to say,well, she, obviously, we've seen
it in in rape cases.
Right, we've seen how peopleare villainized, right, people,
victims of crime are villainizedto be like, well, you were
clearly doing something wrong.
So what did you think was goingto happen?
I mean, it's part ofvictimology, we know that to see
(08:54):
what somebody's lifestyle waslike, it's part of an
investigation, of course.
But the blame goes solely on theperpetrator of the crime, even
if you were.
Look, we've seen a number ofcases where murder victims are
sex workers.
They don't deserve to be killedany more than a school teacher.
(09:17):
Yes, they're in a dangerousprofession, but they're often
victimized.
We see that all the time.
We heard it with um the the.
You know many serial killers.
The Green River serial killertalked about it.
(09:38):
That's why he selected them,because he thought nobody cares.
Nobody cares about them.
Well, that's not true, butthey're just in a different
situation.
No, you're right, you're right.
It takes sort of theresponsibility off everybody
else to look out for each other,right?
Well, she was obviously doingsomething wrong.
So Beryl Atherton was obviouslyup to no good.
So somebody came to her houseand what's that?
(10:01):
Yeah, right, right, right,right, right.
Somebody was what's that?
Yeah, right, right, right,right.
Somebody was judging jury forher, right?
Yeah, no, you're right, you'reright.
Advocacy is key.
I have, I have, I got this bagof skeleton keys and I thought
(10:22):
about what am I going to do withthis, this bag of skeleton keys
?
And I thought, ah, advocacy iskey to all of this.
When I say that, what I mean isit is what makes us empathetic,
it's what makes us understandthis a little bit better.
It helps us to really recognizewhat maybe a victim or a family
(10:48):
has gone through, what is goingthrough.
That's really how I've changedin all this.
I sat at the top of the showwhere I was this you know, radio
DJ, going to rock and rollshows and interviewing famous
people and getting laughs on theradio and then I entered into
this true crime world and I wasstill a little.
(11:09):
I mean, look, you've been here,you've heard me.
You know that I make jokes, Isidebar a lot, I'm I'm goofy
about things, but never, neverabout somebody who has been
victimized in this way.
There's a there's a balance,right.
So one of the things I havebeen involved in most recently
(11:36):
is starting aMassachusetts-based victim
advocacy coalition with a coupleof other women who are in the
space, one of whom is MelanieMcLaughlin, who made the
documentary called have you SeenAndy.
If you have not watched haveyou Seen Andy, it is streaming
on Max.
It is a documentary about AndyPuglisi, who disappeared in 1976
from Lawrence, the publicswimming pool.
She was his childhood friend.
(11:57):
They knew each other for onesummer the last summer that he
was here and she made adocumentary about her experience
and her investigation into hisdisappearance and she won an
Emmy for it.
She is part of this coalition.
Another person who's a part ofthis coalition is Dr Anne-Marie
(12:17):
Myers, who is from here.
She actually lives here on theNorth Shore and she is a
forensic anthropologist who hasworked on a number of very
familiar cases Very familiarcases.
She's worked on the Molly Bishcase.
She worked on the Sarah Pryorcase.
She worked on the Holly MollyBish case.
She worked on the Sarah Pryorcase.
She worked on the HollyPerenian case.
She worked on the Whitey Bulgercase.
(12:37):
She was part of the team whorecovered his victims.
She was digging in the beachesand pulling victims out of the
sand and she testified at histrial and helped send him to
prison.
He was subsequently beaten todeath in jail.
But hmm, karma's a bitch.
And on the Whitey Bulger tip,it depends on who you talk to
(13:01):
and where you talk to them,because he's still like a folk
hero.
To a lot of people he likepulled women's teeth out with
pliers, but some people think hewas amazing and did wonderful
things and he helped bringheroin to South Boston.
So this organization, it's acoalition, a volunteer coalition
, for those of us who just wantto support families.
(13:22):
We do events.
If you're interested, you cansign up to our mailing list.
We'll be having events whereeveryday advocates are invited
to join us.
Everyday advocates are all ofyou, who somebody goes missing,
you share a flyer or you talkabout a case that you're
familiar with.
I mean, everyday advocacy isquite easy Just be factual and
(13:49):
share information and supportfamilies who are going through
something like this.
And advocacy is even just likeyou said.
The book is about her, aboutBeryl Atherton being villainized
quite a bit.
Advocacy is about saying that'sreally unfair to say that about
her when you truly don't know.
But also, at the same time, asa woman, what if she was seeing
(14:16):
a couple of people at the sametime?
I don't think so, but maybewhat if she was, for an example,
I know that was taboo in the1950s, but similar to Elizabeth
Short, who some people don'teven know.
The Black Dahlia has a name.
Elizabeth Short is from Medford, massachusetts.
(14:36):
She grew up right around hereand she became the Black Dahlia
in death because of how she wasfound.
How she was found, she wasizedand I actually have one episode
out about her case and there's asecond one coming about what
(14:58):
happens?
But I I want to humanize peoplein these situations because she
is one of the most famousinfamous murder victims,
unsolved cases in the UnitedStates history and people call
her a prostitute and she, shewasn't.
She wasn't.
Um, yeah, yep, yeah, right,right, there's that.
(15:29):
You know, we see the memesonline.
It's like teach your son.
You know you can teach yourdaughter to behave a certain way
and dress a certain way, buthow about we talk to our sons
about how we could be better atthis?
Right?
This is a list of the cases Ihad really tried to talk about
tonight and I got through mostof them.
(15:52):
Lisa Boy is a little boy whodisappeared from Revere I want
to talk about tonight and I gotthrough most of them.
Lee Savoy is a little boy whodisappeared from Revere.
I want to talk about him.
The Elliott Chamber Fires ofBeverly I have not even cracked
the surface of but much of thisstuff there's information
available online.
If you decide you want to digdeeper on these cases and learn
some more about them, please do.
I probably will get the book onBeryl Atherton, though it might
(16:13):
piss me off.
I recently got a book in themail from a publisher about a
Rockport case some Rockportmurders, I think it's simply
called Murder in Rockport.
I don't know anything about thecase.
It's going back, you know, evenfar like into the 30s, I think.
But I'm gonna dig into it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(16:33):
Here is where a member of thestudio audience studio audience,
like we're on television here amember of the audience chimed
in when I was talking about thisvery old murder from Rockport
who had a relative who was veryfamiliar with the case.
And these things happen when weall get together.
(16:56):
Is that right?
That's really interesting.
So did he talk about this casea lot when you were a kid?
No, oh yeah, oh yeah.
(17:18):
Oh, I imagine that it wasprobably.
I imagine it's probablydifficult.
I imagine it's probablydifficult for him to kind of
bring that stuff home, rightyeah, yeah.
Audience member 1 (17:27):
I spoke to a retired judge who told me he was
an explorer with the RockportPolice Department back then and
he told me who the suspect was,but they just didn't have the
(17:48):
evidence and what they do havethe evidence.
There were two murders.
And when they moved, had theevidence and what they do have
for evidence.
There were two murders, yeah,Okay.
And when they moved from theold police station down in the
dark square area in Rockport upto 39 Broadway, this judge, who
was just a kid at the time, wentto the chief of police with
(18:11):
another police officer and saidChief, what do you want to do
with all this evidence for themurders?
And the chief told them he saidbring it to the quarry over at
Hullabit Point State Park.
Throw it in the quarry, becauseall that's going to do is just
bring back bad memories topeople.
Audience member 2 (18:30):
Wow.
Audience member 1 (18:31):
So that was back in 1939.
Anngelle Wood (18:36):
It's incredible, isn't it?
Audience member 1 (18:37):
It is, it's crazy.
Anngelle Wood (18:39):
People know yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Audience member 1 (18:44):
Yeah, yeah, that book that you mentioned
about the murders in Rockport.
The authors are going to bedoing a talk about it at the
Rockport Public Library in April.
I would love to go to that.
I don't know the date, but ifyou looked up the Rockwood
Public Library they wouldprobably have the date on that.
Anngelle Wood (19:03):
Yeah, I would like to.
I'd be really interested inhearing what they have to say
about it.
I really would Thank you forthat, though.
Thank you Well, thank you, OffCabot.
I do a podcast.
Please listen to it.
Please email me if you havecase ideas.
If you have any informationthat comes to you later and
(19:25):
something you want to tell meabout, please email it.
Everything's at the websitecrimeofthetruestkindcom.
We can do an open Q&A ifanybody wants to ask questions
or talk about anything.
I always save a little time forthe end.
It's 9 o'clock.
Audience member 3 (19:43):
I have a quick question, yeah, over here.
Anngelle Wood (19:48):
I can't see you right here.
Audience member 3 (19:50):
Oh hi Hi.
Um, I was just wondering whenthat part two is going to drop
on.
Uh, the black Dahlia uh, nextweek.
Anngelle Wood (19:57):
Um, because I was going to get it out tomorrow
but I uh had a massive project Ihad to finish.
But it'll be out next week.
Audience member 3 (20:06):
That was really well done.
I I first heard about her likeback in the seventies when I
read one of those HollywoodBabylon books.
Yeah, and.
I knew nothing about her untilI moved to Medford, Right Um.
But I will say you did miss oneperson when you talked about
the history of Medford.
One of the most famous missingpeople also lived in Medford
Amelia Earhart.
(20:26):
Who Amelia?
Anngelle Wood (20:28):
Earhart, that's right, she lived on.
Audience member 3 (20:29):
Brook Street.
Anngelle Wood (20:30):
That's right, that's an important one, that's
a really important one.
Audience member 1 (20:33):
Thank you.
Audience member 4 (20:37):
Can you go back to the Lois Centofani story
?
Yeah, you want me to.
You want to read about it?
Nope, the picture of theGeneral Edwards Bridge that you
actually have a corner of thepiece of Jacob's Ladder parking
lot in that picture.
Are you kidding the lowerright-hand corner?
(20:59):
You go over the GE Bridge.
You look at a point of pines.
Is that spit opposite?
That's the start of Jacob'sLadder.
That's the parking lot.
Anngelle Wood (21:11):
That's incredible .
Audience member 4 (21:12):
Yeah, just to let you know.
Audience member 2 (21:14):
The best place we'd never remember.
Anngelle Wood (21:21):
Wow, no, that's cool.
I didn't know that.
That's great news.
Thank you.
No, I had no idea that's whereit was.
I just had the bird's eye viewof the area where she was found.
Yes, yes, that's veryinteresting.
(21:43):
It gets my red flags up.
Somebody else had a question.
Audience member 5 (21:48):
I'm right over here.
I'm amazed at all the 70s.
I mean I grew up in the 70s andI've had people say, oh, it
wasn't that bad, but we didn'thave the Internet.
I started reading Schoenbergerwhen I was in my single digits
so I was aware that stuff wasgoing on, but you didn't hear it
on the news.
But a lot of these bars andstuff I mean I went to.
(22:10):
I was 13 years old hangingaround outside of a bar because
I liked the band.
Yeah, you know, it was adifferent time for all of us and
a lot of it was good because wewent everywhere and did
anything, but I mean dangeroustoo.
But I was wondering I knowyou're close with the Marie
family if there's any updates oryou know I know there's been
(22:31):
some different things.
Anngelle Wood (22:31):
I love her podcast and you know they are
very guarded with information,but since Julie released Media
Pressure the first season ofMedia Pressure about Mara they
have gotten a number of new tipsand information.
Audience member 5 (22:49):
And I know Freddie just passed away
recently Freddie passed away.
That's horrible.
He was young, I mean, you know.
Anngelle Wood (22:55):
He was in his 50s .
He was very young.
Audience member 5 (22:57):
Yeah, the family's been through a lot.
That's a case that's close tomy heart, that you know.
The family's been through a lot.
Anngelle Wood (23:02):
That's a case that's close to my heart, that
family they're really wonderfulpeople and they have been abused
quite a bit as a result oftheir missing sister and it's
not fair.
Audience member 5 (23:12):
They tore that tree down too, which I
think is upsetting.
There's no reason to have donethat.
Anngelle Wood (23:17):
The town was, well, the people who own the
property?
I don't think the people.
I could be wrong, I'm not sure.
Well, the people who own theproperty, I don't think.
I don't think the people Icould be wrong.
I'm not sure if the people whoown the property when they took
the tree down were the samepeople who own the property when
mara had the accident.
I don't know, um, but I thoughtthat was cruel, yeah, that they
took the tree down, becausethat's the only like real.
(23:39):
They, they don't have a gravesite, they don't, they don't
have anything to remember, to goand sort of remember her.
They go there and every yearthere's a vigil, and there was
just one this past february.
But I've just felt it was crueland I don't can't really say
why the people did it.
Audience member 5 (23:57):
They just didn't want the attention yeah,
I love your podcast and Ihaven't heard the dahlia when
I'm waiting for second pot tocome out.
But yeah, you're doing a greatjob, thank you.
Anngelle Wood (24:07):
Thank you for coming.
I'm so happy you came again andyou give me some great
information.
Next question Sure.
Thank you everybody for coming.
I'm happy to answer yourquestions or share your stories.
Audience member 2 (24:20):
I was just wondering if you've ever heard
of the Karen Floss case inBeverly from 1968.
Anngelle Wood (24:27):
I don't know anything about it.
What can you tell me?
Audience member 2 (24:30):
She was 14 years old, murdered in Cooney
Field in Beverly In Beverly.
Wow, right behind Hertz Stadium, right behind the football, the
high school football stadium,wow, I mean the murderer was
found, but it was.
I was about 11 when it happened.
(24:53):
She was 14.
And it's just that had to havea big impact on you.
It's something that's likehaunted me my whole life.
So, karen Floss, I willabsolutely look up her story,
the guy that killed her wasRonnie Hutchinson.
Anngelle Wood (25:10):
What do you know about that?
Did they release anyinformation about associated
with this person and why he didthis?
Audience member 2 (25:17):
Probably he raped and killed her 14 years
old.
He was a ne'er-do-well aroundBeverly.
Everybody knew him, so it waseasy to find him and figure out
who did it.
But it was 1968, karen Floss.
Anngelle Wood (25:42):
Got it.
Audience member 2 (25:43):
Thank you.
Does anyone else have aquestion or something they want
to talk about?
Anngelle Wood (25:50):
Go in once.
Karen Reed Okay, let's talkabout Karen Reed, all right, so
here's what I think about KarenReed.
I don't think they're evergoing to be able to prove that
she did that.
I don't know.
(26:13):
I don't actually know.
I don't follow it nearly asclosely as a lot of people do,
but watching, I watched some ofthe beginning of the first trial
and I just thought I, I called,I called it.
I said this is going to be ahung jury.
I called it like two weeks inand I'm not.
(26:34):
I'm no, you know, I don't know.
I know very little about law.
You know the inner workings oflaw and trials and et cetera.
But I said there's no way thatthere, I cannot see them finding
her guilty because they provednothing.
She doesn't even know.
(27:00):
It's just so bananas, andthere's just all these attention
from all of these other peoplearound the case.
I just truly don't believe thatthey're going to find.
I think if they, they're goingto go take her to trial again
and I think the same thing isgoing to happen.
I don't think they're evergoing to find her guilty of
(27:22):
killing him.
I don't Whether she did it ornot, I don't know.
I don't know.
All of it is just too bizarre.
They have made this into all ofthe players involved, have made
it so messy and murky that youactually forget there's a dead
guy, you forget that a man died.
(27:45):
You forget because it's beenmade as sort of a mockery the
whole thing.
So my feeling is this I don'tthink they're ever going to find
her guilty.
I don't.
I'd be surprised if they.
I'd be surprised.
And there's just so much thatcontinues to go on.
What do you think I?
Audience member 2 (28:05):
think that state police are all corrupt.
The judge is in on it and Idon't think they have to prove
her guilty.
I think they'll put her away nomatter what.
Anngelle Wood (28:20):
I do watch the Sandra Birchmore case a little
bit more closely and that'sassociated because it's Canton,
Stoughton and the StoughtonPolice Department.
That story is absolutelyhorrible, the fact that that
young girl went through what shewent through, and it's overlap.
Absolutely.
She was groomed by policeofficers More than one.
Audience member 2 (28:40):
No, I mean Ken Reed, she's—i think she's
innocent, she's factuallyinnocent.
More than one.
No, I mean Ken Reed, I thinkshe's innocent, she's factually
innocent, oh.
Anngelle Wood (28:47):
It makes us look as Massachusetts people.
I mean, we're North Shore,south Shore there's always this
rivalry but it makes all of uscollectively look like idiots.
That's how I see it.
I'm like we look so stupid.
Audience member 6 (29:02):
If she wasn't a beautiful woman, this
wouldn't have been on Peoplemagazine.
I think that's part of it?
Anngelle Wood (29:08):
I think that's part of it.
You know, I do feel for KarenReid a little bit Because you
know, whatever was going on withtheir relationship, he died and
she never got a chance to mournhim.
If she is or not, it's not upto me to say A crazy girlfriend.
Audience member 6 (29:22):
Yeah, and is that a capital offense?
Yeah, yeah.
Anngelle Wood (29:28):
Yes, I think there are a lot of people
associated with that case thatare.
Hmm, what about?
Audience member 2 (29:34):
people being afraid of other people.
Anngelle Wood (29:36):
Yes, there's a lot of fear around that case
Absolutely, absolutely Corrupt.
Yeah, we did say that.
Oh, nepotism, how they're alllike covering, they're all
taking care of each other.
Yeah, yes, oh yeah In myopinion, yeah, in my opinion.
Audience member 6 (30:08):
I really what you think, do you?
I don't think they'll ever findher guilty.
I don't think they will because, um, and she was the fbi
cleared the cops, oh, the fbicleared the cops of any
wrongdoing in that case.
But then again, do we trustthose cops?
You know, that's the wholething, isn't?
Anngelle Wood (30:28):
that like investigating themselves.
Audience member 6 (30:29):
It's very well known in that community.
Everybody knows everybody.
They cover for everybody.
Nothing would be moreconvenient than to find the fall
person.
She was a handy little fallperson right there and her
boyfriend the one they killed.
He could have very well been onto something that was going on
(30:55):
in the town, and what aconvenient way to get him off
the trail of any wrongdoing thatwas going on with the other
cops.
Anngelle Wood (31:07):
Just take the attention away and oh, look it
over here.
It's like the squirrel effect,oh look.
Audience member 6 (31:14):
Yes, Nobody pay attention to this.
And when they had her, theysaid she's going to be the
perfect one.
We're going to pin it on her.
She's going to be the perfectone.
That's my opinion.
Now, I know everybody differson the opinion and some people
want to see her go straight tohell.
I know they do, and a lot ofpeople feel that way.
Anngelle Wood (31:32):
That's not really how I feel.
I just feel like I feel bad.
I do have compassion for herbecause she did lose someone she
loved and I have compassion forthe O'Keeffe family big time
and those kids that he wastaking care of.
That have nobody now Right.
They have not proven.
I'm not a juror, thank God, butthey haven't proven to me she
did it.
Audience member 6 (31:51):
I think she's going to get off.
My last person I just wanted tojust bring up was a young man
named Brian Lopez that wasmurdered in Lynn.
Okay, I'm from Lynn, so Iidentify with a lot of the cases
that have happened in Lynn andmy husband, who's older than me,
remembers Lois Senefani.
I remember little Jesus, youknow, in the city.
(32:13):
But Brian Lopez also wasmurdered recently last summer
this was no, not two years agolast summer.
I recognize the name.
He was walking to school in themorning.
He was diverted somehow duringthe day on the way to school,
ended up going up, they think,towards Lynn Woods, because he
(32:35):
had gone there before just toget away from things, and they
found him in the reservoir.
Okay, they pulled him out ofthe.
They had the news media wasthere, they had the cops were
all blocking the area.
But the word on the street isWith the local community and on
(32:57):
the local Facebook page is thatthe police never let the parents
see the body.
They told them they had thewhole thing locked down and they
would never let them see thebody and they said it was
because he was too much adisfigurement and a lot of
(33:19):
people think it's being coveredup, and this was last summer and
, to be honest with you, I don'teven believe they actually
pulled the body out of thatreservoir.
Anngelle Wood (33:28):
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I know what you're talkingabout.
I'm going to look that up.
Look it up.
Audience member 6 (33:32):
I'm going to read that I'm going to read
about it.
You know what I'm talking about.
It was pull from the Lynn WoodsReservoir.
Anngelle Wood (33:45):
Now, were they really pulled out for the Lynn
Reservoir?
The open Q&A gets reallyinteresting and people bring all
sorts of information and greatquestions and bring up other
cases, some of which I have noknowledge of whatsoever.
The Karen Reed case comes upevery single time I am out doing
(34:07):
a show.
It has generated a great dealof interest and here we are.
Trial number two has begun.
What will become of the KarenReed case I don't know.
But I will say this I don'tfollow it religiously like a lot
of people do and I understandpeople's interest in the case,
(34:31):
and I will say what I havealways said A man is dead.
John O'Keefe died.
Whether he was beaten up bysomeone, I don't know.
Whether he was hit by a caraccidentally or on purpose, I
(34:52):
don't know but I know that hehas been lost in this story and
that is a crime of the truestkind.
And those children that he wastaking care of without parents
and now without their uncle,their guardian, their caregiver,
(35:13):
their surrogate father, andthat so many other people have
been implicated in this, it isbananas and that people are
getting rich and famous off hisname.
I can't tell you if Karen Reiddid it or she didn't.
It's really up to whether theprosecution or the defense tells
(35:35):
the better story.
And this case is so polarizing,like politics.
There are people who believeshe's guilty, throw her in jail,
and others who said she's beentotally railroaded.
Where do you fall?
I advocate for all people.
I don't point fingers andvilify people.
(35:57):
Victims of crime are just thatthey are victims In these
stories.
In talking to people who livein these communities, it is
incredibly interesting andenlightening.
I have been working on findinga venue on the South Shore and I
can imagine what people aregoing to want to talk about.
(36:18):
I am not invested in the KarenReed case.
That's not to say I'm notinterested in following some of
the updates as they roll out.
I don't know every singleplayer in the case.
You're not coming to listen tomy podcast to hear about the
Karen Reed trial, and I get that.
(36:39):
I'm here to do so much more.
I have much more informationand knowledge about Sandra's
case.
I really look forward tojustice for Sandra Birchmore.
Thank you for listening.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind.
(37:00):
Massachusetts and New Englandcrime stories and history and
advocacy.
Follow Crime of the Truest Kindonline at Crime of the Truest
Kind online Crime of the TruestKind dot com.
Tell your friends come to alive show.
(37:21):
Nico's here.
Hi.
Online crimeofthetruestkindcom.
Tell your friends, Come to alive show.
Nico's here.
Hi.
I'll be back at Off Cabot inSeptember.
More live shows to come.
Say bye, Nico, I must be going.
Lock your goddamn doors.
We'll be right back.
(37:46):
We'll see you next time.
Well, hello, my name is Angelle Wood and this is
Crime of the Truest Kind.
Welcome back.
(00:37):
This is part two of tworecorded live on Thursday, march
13th 2025, at Off Cabot inBeverly, massachusetts.
Off Cabot has become a welcomehome for the show and we will be
back.
This is part two of the liveshow.
If you have not listened topart one, please go back and
listen to episode 82.
While you're there, listen toall the back catalog of Crime of
(01:00):
the Truest Kind.
But this is the second half ofthe live show.
Now, keep in mind it's a liveshow and I welcome crowd
participation.
We try to get everyone on mic.
That proves difficult.
This is part two True CrimeNorth Shore.
This is episode 83.
Send me an email anytime.
Case suggestionscrimeofthetruestkind at gmailcom
(01:21):
.
Truest kind at gmailcom.
Beryl Atherton is a case that Idon't know.
If a lot of people know aboutthis, because it happened so
long ago and there is a bookthat I have not read, so I
haven't.
I haven't dug enough into hercase yet to to present it in an
(01:43):
episode, but there's a book thatwas written, murder and
Marblehead, by Harry Christensenand Rich Santasano.
Sorry, rich, it chronicles herstory and I do plan on reading
it, but her story is horrendousand I'll tell you a little bit.
I'll tell you what I know andsomething that I pulled during
(02:05):
my research earlier.
It was a Saturday night ofThanksgiving weekend in 1950.
A savage Nor'easter batteredthe coast.
We've all gone through theNor'easter right, the Nor'easter
.
In a place like Marblehead itwas probably particularly windy.
Beryl was a single woman.
They called her a spinster thenRemember, the language has
changed.
(02:25):
Today we call her a woman.
She was a spinster.
She was.
I believe she was 47.
She was a teacher in Marblehead.
During this stormy nightsomebody entered her home,
attacked her, strangled her inher kitchen.
They cut her throat in the signof the cross, which is
(02:48):
particularly morbid.
Right, but of course we alsoread things into this.
Was somebody truly like I don'tknow, a devil worshiper,
because this predated satanicpanic by a number of decades?
But I'm sure that flipped a lotof people out.
When she was found they had noidea where to look.
(03:09):
She lived in what they called arundown clapboard cottage at 57
Sewell Street in the old townarea of Marblehead.
Those of you who are familiarwith the area it might make
sense.
She was 47, tall, painfullythin.
This writer called her no closefriends, that they knew of no
known enemies.
(03:30):
I mean, she was a teacherAnybody had.
Well, this is going back a lotof years.
I can't imagine anybody in herewas familiar with her at school
.
Her father was a clergyman whoonce lived with her in that
house.
She didn't do a whole lot.
She went to get her hair done.
She went to get her hair done,she went to the movies.
She taught in Marbleheadschools for more than 25 years.
She was murdered in her homeand that's all we know about
(03:55):
what happened to this woman wholived alone, who was a teacher
minding her own business, and itbecame one of Marblehead's most
infamous maybe cases unsolved.
What in the world happened toBeryl Atherton?
I am going to get that book andI'm going to read it and then I
(04:16):
will.
My plan is to write an episodebased on her case, because I
didn't know about her case priorto starting to really research
more North Shore stuff.
Is anybody familiar with hercase?
Yeah, it's one of thosemysteries.
(04:38):
It's one of those North Shoremysteries.
It's a Marblehead mystery.
Who in the world was sheinvolved with somebody?
We simply don't know, becauseit was 1950.
We really don't know anythingabout her life or really what
she did.
Well, how do they make her outin the book?
(04:59):
Come on, well, what would youexpect?
See what happens to victims ofviolent crime.
(05:22):
They're made out to be likedeplorable people.
When are we going to stopre-victimizing people who have
been victimized?
This is a woman that probablydidn't fucking do anything.
She probably went to school andtook care of her wonderful
school children and came homewho knows?
(05:44):
I mean, there was no Tinderthen she couldn't hook up.
I think the book would anger me, wouldn't it?
I think the book might piss meoff.
Yeah, yep, his co-author waslike, let's throw this in there,
(06:09):
let's say that she was just ahound dog.
I mean, come on, she's not hereto defend herself.
Yeah, yeah, milkman, yeah yeah,they had no way to track
(06:37):
anything.
I mean, today, if any one of usgoes missing and I really never
want to do an episode on any ofyou Today, if anybody goes
missing and I really never wantto do a, I never want to do an
episode on any of you today If,if anybody goes missing, we have
a digital footprint, we canpretty much figure out
everything.
You know, if you're, if you getin a car accident, we can figure
(06:57):
out what your car did right upuntil the moment.
Right, we can pretty muchfigure, I mean, if anything
happens to me, not going to lie,everything is laid out,
everything I've done, everywhereI've been.
Everybody knows my dogs looklike everybody knows what they
did from moment to moment.
Everything about our lives,generally speaking, is has a
(07:19):
digital footprint.
We don't know what she wasdoing.
Like if, if this book suggeststhat she was going into town and
doing all the things based onwhat?
Yeah, that's a good point, yep,that's a good point.
(07:51):
Yep, right, right, villainizedin this way, it often suggests
that it's a way for people tofeel a little bit more
comfortable, like they're not atrisk because that person who
(08:12):
was abducted or hurt or murderedwas up to no good anyway.
So, as long as I feel like I'mon the straight and narrow, so
to speak, nothing like this willhappen to me.
We know that's wrong.
Yeah, and they want to take theresponsibility off the person
(08:34):
who committed the crime to say,well, she, obviously, we've seen
it in in rape cases.
Right, we've seen how peopleare villainized, right, people,
victims of crime are villainizedto be like, well, you were
clearly doing something wrong.
So what did you think was goingto happen?
I mean, it's part ofvictimology, we know that to see
(08:54):
what somebody's lifestyle waslike, it's part of an
investigation, of course.
But the blame goes solely on theperpetrator of the crime, even
if you were.
Look, we've seen a number ofcases where murder victims are
sex workers.
They don't deserve to be killedany more than a school teacher.
(09:17):
Yes, they're in a dangerousprofession, but they're often
victimized.
We see that all the time.
We heard it with um the the.
You know many serial killers.
The Green River serial killertalked about it.
(09:38):
That's why he selected them,because he thought nobody cares.
Nobody cares about them.
Well, that's not true, butthey're just in a different
situation.
No, you're right, you're right.
It takes sort of theresponsibility off everybody
else to look out for each other,right?
Well, she was obviously doingsomething wrong.
So Beryl Atherton was obviouslyup to no good.
So somebody came to her houseand what's that?
(10:01):
Yeah, right, right, right,right, right.
Somebody was what's that?
Yeah, right, right, right,right.
Somebody was judging jury forher, right?
Yeah, no, you're right, you'reright.
Advocacy is key.
I have, I have, I got this bagof skeleton keys and I thought
(10:22):
about what am I going to do withthis, this bag of skeleton keys
?
And I thought, ah, advocacy iskey to all of this.
When I say that, what I mean isit is what makes us empathetic,
it's what makes us understandthis a little bit better.
It helps us to really recognizewhat maybe a victim or a family
(10:48):
has gone through, what is goingthrough.
That's really how I've changedin all this.
I sat at the top of the showwhere I was this you know, radio
DJ, going to rock and rollshows and interviewing famous
people and getting laughs on theradio and then I entered into
this true crime world and I wasstill a little.
(11:09):
I mean, look, you've been here,you've heard me.
You know that I make jokes, Isidebar a lot, I'm I'm goofy
about things, but never, neverabout somebody who has been
victimized in this way.
There's a there's a balance,right.
So one of the things I havebeen involved in most recently
(11:36):
is starting aMassachusetts-based victim
advocacy coalition with a coupleof other women who are in the
space, one of whom is MelanieMcLaughlin, who made the
documentary called have you SeenAndy.
If you have not watched haveyou Seen Andy, it is streaming
on Max.
It is a documentary about AndyPuglisi, who disappeared in 1976
from Lawrence, the publicswimming pool.
She was his childhood friend.
(11:57):
They knew each other for onesummer the last summer that he
was here and she made adocumentary about her experience
and her investigation into hisdisappearance and she won an
Emmy for it.
She is part of this coalition.
Another person who's a part ofthis coalition is Dr Anne-Marie
(12:17):
Myers, who is from here.
She actually lives here on theNorth Shore and she is a
forensic anthropologist who hasworked on a number of very
familiar cases Very familiarcases.
She's worked on the Molly Bishcase.
She worked on the Sarah Pryorcase.
She worked on the Holly MollyBish case.
She worked on the Sarah Pryorcase.
She worked on the HollyPerenian case.
She worked on the Whitey Bulgercase.
(12:37):
She was part of the team whorecovered his victims.
She was digging in the beachesand pulling victims out of the
sand and she testified at histrial and helped send him to
prison.
He was subsequently beaten todeath in jail.
But hmm, karma's a bitch.
And on the Whitey Bulger tip,it depends on who you talk to
(13:01):
and where you talk to them,because he's still like a folk
hero.
To a lot of people he likepulled women's teeth out with
pliers, but some people think hewas amazing and did wonderful
things and he helped bringheroin to South Boston.
So this organization, it's acoalition, a volunteer coalition
, for those of us who just wantto support families.
(13:22):
We do events.
If you're interested, you cansign up to our mailing list.
We'll be having events whereeveryday advocates are invited
to join us.
Everyday advocates are all ofyou, who somebody goes missing,
you share a flyer or you talkabout a case that you're
familiar with.
I mean, everyday advocacy isquite easy Just be factual and
(13:49):
share information and supportfamilies who are going through
something like this.
And advocacy is even just likeyou said.
The book is about her, aboutBeryl Atherton being villainized
quite a bit.
Advocacy is about saying that'sreally unfair to say that about
her when you truly don't know.
But also, at the same time, asa woman, what if she was seeing
(14:16):
a couple of people at the sametime?
I don't think so, but maybewhat if she was, for an example,
I know that was taboo in the1950s, but similar to Elizabeth
Short, who some people don'teven know.
The Black Dahlia has a name.
Elizabeth Short is from Medford, massachusetts.
(14:36):
She grew up right around hereand she became the Black Dahlia
in death because of how she wasfound.
How she was found, she wasizedand I actually have one episode
out about her case and there's asecond one coming about what
(14:58):
happens?
But I I want to humanize peoplein these situations because she
is one of the most famousinfamous murder victims,
unsolved cases in the UnitedStates history and people call
her a prostitute and she, shewasn't.
She wasn't.
Um, yeah, yep, yeah, right,right, there's that.
(15:29):
You know, we see the memesonline.
It's like teach your son.
You know you can teach yourdaughter to behave a certain way
and dress a certain way, buthow about we talk to our sons
about how we could be better atthis?
Right?
This is a list of the cases Ihad really tried to talk about
tonight and I got through mostof them.
(15:52):
Lisa Boy is a little boy whodisappeared from Revere I want
to talk about tonight and I gotthrough most of them.
Lee Savoy is a little boy whodisappeared from Revere.
I want to talk about him.
The Elliott Chamber Fires ofBeverly I have not even cracked
the surface of but much of thisstuff there's information
available online.
If you decide you want to digdeeper on these cases and learn
some more about them, please do.
I probably will get the book onBeryl Atherton, though it might
(16:13):
piss me off.
I recently got a book in themail from a publisher about a
Rockport case some Rockportmurders, I think it's simply
called Murder in Rockport.
I don't know anything about thecase.
It's going back, you know, evenfar like into the 30s, I think.
But I'm gonna dig into it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(16:33):
Here is where a member of thestudio audience studio audience,
like we're on television here amember of the audience chimed
in when I was talking about thisvery old murder from Rockport
who had a relative who was veryfamiliar with the case.
And these things happen when weall get together.
(16:56):
Is that right?
That's really interesting.
So did he talk about this casea lot when you were a kid?
No, oh yeah, oh yeah.
(17:18):
Oh, I imagine that it wasprobably.
I imagine it's probablydifficult.
I imagine it's probablydifficult for him to kind of
bring that stuff home, rightyeah, yeah.
Audience member 1 (17:27):
I spoke to a retired judge who told me he was
an explorer with the RockportPolice Department back then and
he told me who the suspect was,but they just didn't have the
(17:48):
evidence and what they do havethe evidence.
There were two murders.
And when they moved, had theevidence and what they do have
for evidence.
There were two murders, yeah,Okay.
And when they moved from theold police station down in the
dark square area in Rockport upto 39 Broadway, this judge, who
was just a kid at the time, wentto the chief of police with
(18:11):
another police officer and saidChief, what do you want to do
with all this evidence for themurders?
And the chief told them he saidbring it to the quarry over at
Hullabit Point State Park.
Throw it in the quarry, becauseall that's going to do is just
bring back bad memories topeople.
Audience member 2 (18:30):
Wow.
Audience member 1 (18:31):
So that was back in 1939.
Anngelle Wood (18:36):
It's incredible, isn't it?
Audience member 1 (18:37):
It is, it's crazy.
Anngelle Wood (18:39):
People know yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Audience member 1 (18:44):
Yeah, yeah, that book that you mentioned
about the murders in Rockport.
The authors are going to bedoing a talk about it at the
Rockport Public Library in April.
I would love to go to that.
I don't know the date, but ifyou looked up the Rockwood
Public Library they wouldprobably have the date on that.
Anngelle Wood (19:03):
Yeah, I would like to.
I'd be really interested inhearing what they have to say
about it.
I really would Thank you forthat, though.
Thank you Well, thank you, OffCabot.
I do a podcast.
Please listen to it.
Please email me if you havecase ideas.
If you have any informationthat comes to you later and
(19:25):
something you want to tell meabout, please email it.
Everything's at the websitecrimeofthetruestkindcom.
We can do an open Q&A ifanybody wants to ask questions
or talk about anything.
I always save a little time forthe end.
It's 9 o'clock.
Audience member 3 (19:43):
I have a quick question, yeah, over here.
Anngelle Wood (19:48):
I can't see you right here.
Audience member 3 (19:50):
Oh hi Hi.
Um, I was just wondering whenthat part two is going to drop
on.
Uh, the black Dahlia uh, nextweek.
Anngelle Wood (19:57):
Um, because I was going to get it out tomorrow
but I uh had a massive project Ihad to finish.
But it'll be out next week.
Audience member 3 (20:06):
That was really well done.
I I first heard about her likeback in the seventies when I
read one of those HollywoodBabylon books.
Yeah, and.
I knew nothing about her untilI moved to Medford, Right Um.
But I will say you did miss oneperson when you talked about
the history of Medford.
One of the most famous missingpeople also lived in Medford
Amelia Earhart.
(20:26):
Who Amelia?
Anngelle Wood (20:28):
Earhart, that's right, she lived on.
Audience member 3 (20:29):
Brook Street.
Anngelle Wood (20:30):
That's right, that's an important one, that's
a really important one.
Audience member 1 (20:33):
Thank you.
Audience member 4 (20:37):
Can you go back to the Lois Centofani story
?
Yeah, you want me to.
You want to read about it?
Nope, the picture of theGeneral Edwards Bridge that you
actually have a corner of thepiece of Jacob's Ladder parking
lot in that picture.
Are you kidding the lowerright-hand corner?
(20:59):
You go over the GE Bridge.
You look at a point of pines.
Is that spit opposite?
That's the start of Jacob'sLadder.
That's the parking lot.
Anngelle Wood (21:11):
That's incredible .
Audience member 4 (21:12):
Yeah, just to let you know.
Audience member 2 (21:14):
The best place we'd never remember.
Anngelle Wood (21:21):
Wow, no, that's cool.
I didn't know that.
That's great news.
Thank you.
No, I had no idea that's whereit was.
I just had the bird's eye viewof the area where she was found.
Yes, yes, that's veryinteresting.
(21:43):
It gets my red flags up.
Somebody else had a question.
Audience member 5 (21:48):
I'm right over here.
I'm amazed at all the 70s.
I mean I grew up in the 70s andI've had people say, oh, it
wasn't that bad, but we didn'thave the Internet.
I started reading Schoenbergerwhen I was in my single digits
so I was aware that stuff wasgoing on, but you didn't hear it
on the news.
But a lot of these bars andstuff I mean I went to.
(22:10):
I was 13 years old hangingaround outside of a bar because
I liked the band.
Yeah, you know, it was adifferent time for all of us and
a lot of it was good because wewent everywhere and did
anything, but I mean dangeroustoo.
But I was wondering I knowyou're close with the Marie
family if there's any updates oryou know I know there's been
(22:31):
some different things.
Anngelle Wood (22:31):
I love her podcast and you know they are
very guarded with information,but since Julie released Media
Pressure the first season ofMedia Pressure about Mara they
have gotten a number of new tipsand information.
Audience member 5 (22:49):
And I know Freddie just passed away
recently Freddie passed away.
That's horrible.
He was young, I mean, you know.
Anngelle Wood (22:55):
He was in his 50s .
He was very young.
Audience member 5 (22:57):
Yeah, the family's been through a lot.
That's a case that's close tomy heart, that you know.
The family's been through a lot.
Anngelle Wood (23:02):
That's a case that's close to my heart, that
family they're really wonderfulpeople and they have been abused
quite a bit as a result oftheir missing sister and it's
not fair.
Audience member 5 (23:12):
They tore that tree down too, which I
think is upsetting.
There's no reason to have donethat.
Anngelle Wood (23:17):
The town was, well, the people who own the
property?
I don't think the people.
I could be wrong, I'm not sure.
Well, the people who own theproperty, I don't think.
I don't think the people Icould be wrong.
I'm not sure if the people whoown the property when they took
the tree down were the samepeople who own the property when
mara had the accident.
I don't know, um, but I thoughtthat was cruel, yeah, that they
took the tree down, becausethat's the only like real.
(23:39):
They, they don't have a gravesite, they don't, they don't
have anything to remember, to goand sort of remember her.
They go there and every yearthere's a vigil, and there was
just one this past february.
But I've just felt it was crueland I don't can't really say
why the people did it.
Audience member 5 (23:57):
They just didn't want the attention yeah,
I love your podcast and Ihaven't heard the dahlia when
I'm waiting for second pot tocome out.
But yeah, you're doing a greatjob, thank you.
Anngelle Wood (24:07):
Thank you for coming.
I'm so happy you came again andyou give me some great
information.
Next question Sure.
Thank you everybody for coming.
I'm happy to answer yourquestions or share your stories.
Audience member 2 (24:20):
I was just wondering if you've ever heard
of the Karen Floss case inBeverly from 1968.
Anngelle Wood (24:27):
I don't know anything about it.
What can you tell me?
Audience member 2 (24:30):
She was 14 years old, murdered in Cooney
Field in Beverly In Beverly.
Wow, right behind Hertz Stadium, right behind the football, the
high school football stadium,wow, I mean the murderer was
found, but it was.
I was about 11 when it happened.
(24:53):
She was 14.
And it's just that had to havea big impact on you.
It's something that's likehaunted me my whole life.
So, karen Floss, I willabsolutely look up her story,
the guy that killed her wasRonnie Hutchinson.
Anngelle Wood (25:10):
What do you know about that?
Did they release anyinformation about associated
with this person and why he didthis?
Audience member 2 (25:17):
Probably he raped and killed her 14 years
old.
He was a ne'er-do-well aroundBeverly.
Everybody knew him, so it waseasy to find him and figure out
who did it.
But it was 1968, karen Floss.
Anngelle Wood (25:42):
Got it.
Audience member 2 (25:43):
Thank you.
Does anyone else have aquestion or something they want
to talk about?
Anngelle Wood (25:50):
Go in once.
Karen Reed Okay, let's talkabout Karen Reed, all right, so
here's what I think about KarenReed.
I don't think they're evergoing to be able to prove that
she did that.
I don't know.
(26:13):
I don't actually know.
I don't follow it nearly asclosely as a lot of people do,
but watching, I watched some ofthe beginning of the first trial
and I just thought I, I called,I called it.
I said this is going to be ahung jury.
I called it like two weeks inand I'm not.
(26:34):
I'm no, you know, I don't know.
I know very little about law.
You know the inner workings oflaw and trials and et cetera.
But I said there's no way thatthere, I cannot see them finding
her guilty because they provednothing.
She doesn't even know.
(27:00):
It's just so bananas, andthere's just all these attention
from all of these other peoplearound the case.
I just truly don't believe thatthey're going to find.
I think if they, they're goingto go take her to trial again
and I think the same thing isgoing to happen.
I don't think they're evergoing to find her guilty of
(27:22):
killing him.
I don't Whether she did it ornot, I don't know.
I don't know.
All of it is just too bizarre.
They have made this into all ofthe players involved, have made
it so messy and murky that youactually forget there's a dead
guy, you forget that a man died.
(27:45):
You forget because it's beenmade as sort of a mockery the
whole thing.
So my feeling is this I don'tthink they're ever going to find
her guilty.
I don't.
I'd be surprised if they.
I'd be surprised.
And there's just so much thatcontinues to go on.
What do you think I?
Audience member 2 (28:05):
think that state police are all corrupt.
The judge is in on it and Idon't think they have to prove
her guilty.
I think they'll put her away nomatter what.
Anngelle Wood (28:20):
I do watch the Sandra Birchmore case a little
bit more closely and that'sassociated because it's Canton,
Stoughton and the StoughtonPolice Department.
That story is absolutelyhorrible, the fact that that
young girl went through what shewent through, and it's overlap.
Absolutely.
She was groomed by policeofficers More than one.
Audience member 2 (28:40):
No, I mean Ken Reed, she's—i think she's
innocent, she's factuallyinnocent.
More than one.
No, I mean Ken Reed, I thinkshe's innocent, she's factually
innocent, oh.
Anngelle Wood (28:47):
It makes us look as Massachusetts people.
I mean, we're North Shore,south Shore there's always this
rivalry but it makes all of uscollectively look like idiots.
That's how I see it.
I'm like we look so stupid.
Audience member 6 (29:02):
If she wasn't a beautiful woman, this
wouldn't have been on Peoplemagazine.
I think that's part of it?
Anngelle Wood (29:08):
I think that's part of it.
You know, I do feel for KarenReid a little bit Because you
know, whatever was going on withtheir relationship, he died and
she never got a chance to mournhim.
If she is or not, it's not upto me to say A crazy girlfriend.
Audience member 6 (29:22):
Yeah, and is that a capital offense?
Yeah, yeah.
Anngelle Wood (29:28):
Yes, I think there are a lot of people
associated with that case thatare.
Hmm, what about?
Audience member 2 (29:34):
people being afraid of other people.
Anngelle Wood (29:36):
Yes, there's a lot of fear around that case
Absolutely, absolutely Corrupt.
Yeah, we did say that.
Oh, nepotism, how they're alllike covering, they're all
taking care of each other.
Yeah, yes, oh yeah In myopinion, yeah, in my opinion.
Audience member 6 (30:08):
I really what you think, do you?
I don't think they'll ever findher guilty.
I don't think they will because, um, and she was the fbi
cleared the cops, oh, the fbicleared the cops of any
wrongdoing in that case.
But then again, do we trustthose cops?
You know, that's the wholething, isn't?
Anngelle Wood (30:28):
that like investigating themselves.
Audience member 6 (30:29):
It's very well known in that community.
Everybody knows everybody.
They cover for everybody.
Nothing would be moreconvenient than to find the fall
person.
She was a handy little fallperson right there and her
boyfriend the one they killed.
He could have very well been onto something that was going on
(30:55):
in the town, and what aconvenient way to get him off
the trail of any wrongdoing thatwas going on with the other
cops.
Anngelle Wood (31:07):
Just take the attention away and oh, look it
over here.
It's like the squirrel effect,oh look.
Audience member 6 (31:14):
Yes, Nobody pay attention to this.
And when they had her, theysaid she's going to be the
perfect one.
We're going to pin it on her.
She's going to be the perfectone.
That's my opinion.
Now, I know everybody differson the opinion and some people
want to see her go straight tohell.
I know they do, and a lot ofpeople feel that way.
Anngelle Wood (31:32):
That's not really how I feel.
I just feel like I feel bad.
I do have compassion for herbecause she did lose someone she
loved and I have compassion forthe O'Keeffe family big time
and those kids that he wastaking care of.
That have nobody now Right.
They have not proven.
I'm not a juror, thank God, butthey haven't proven to me she
did it.
Audience member 6 (31:51):
I think she's going to get off.
My last person I just wanted tojust bring up was a young man
named Brian Lopez that wasmurdered in Lynn.
Okay, I'm from Lynn, so Iidentify with a lot of the cases
that have happened in Lynn andmy husband, who's older than me,
remembers Lois Senefani.
I remember little Jesus, youknow, in the city.
(32:13):
But Brian Lopez also wasmurdered recently last summer
this was no, not two years agolast summer.
I recognize the name.
He was walking to school in themorning.
He was diverted somehow duringthe day on the way to school,
ended up going up, they think,towards Lynn Woods, because he
(32:35):
had gone there before just toget away from things, and they
found him in the reservoir.
Okay, they pulled him out ofthe.
They had the news media wasthere, they had the cops were
all blocking the area.
But the word on the street isWith the local community and on
(32:57):
the local Facebook page is thatthe police never let the parents
see the body.
They told them they had thewhole thing locked down and they
would never let them see thebody and they said it was
because he was too much adisfigurement and a lot of
(33:19):
people think it's being coveredup, and this was last summer and
, to be honest with you, I don'teven believe they actually
pulled the body out of thatreservoir.
Anngelle Wood (33:28):
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I know what you're talkingabout.
I'm going to look that up.
Look it up.
Audience member 6 (33:32):
I'm going to read that I'm going to read
about it.
You know what I'm talking about.
It was pull from the Lynn WoodsReservoir.
Anngelle Wood (33:45):
Now, were they really pulled out for the Lynn
Reservoir?
The open Q&A gets reallyinteresting and people bring all
sorts of information and greatquestions and bring up other
cases, some of which I have noknowledge of whatsoever.
The Karen Reed case comes upevery single time I am out doing
(34:07):
a show.
It has generated a great dealof interest and here we are.
Trial number two has begun.
What will become of the KarenReed case I don't know.
But I will say this I don'tfollow it religiously like a lot
of people do and I understandpeople's interest in the case,
(34:31):
and I will say what I havealways said A man is dead.
John O'Keefe died.
Whether he was beaten up bysomeone, I don't know.
Whether he was hit by a caraccidentally or on purpose, I
(34:52):
don't know but I know that hehas been lost in this story and
that is a crime of the truestkind.
And those children that he wastaking care of without parents
and now without their uncle,their guardian, their caregiver,
(35:13):
their surrogate father, andthat so many other people have
been implicated in this, it isbananas and that people are
getting rich and famous off hisname.
I can't tell you if Karen Reiddid it or she didn't.
It's really up to whether theprosecution or the defense tells
(35:35):
the better story.
And this case is so polarizing,like politics.
There are people who believeshe's guilty, throw her in jail,
and others who said she's beentotally railroaded.
Where do you fall?
I advocate for all people.
I don't point fingers andvilify people.
(35:57):
Victims of crime are just thatthey are victims In these
stories.
In talking to people who livein these communities, it is
incredibly interesting andenlightening.
I have been working on findinga venue on the South Shore and I
can imagine what people aregoing to want to talk about.
(36:18):
I am not invested in the KarenReed case.
That's not to say I'm notinterested in following some of
the updates as they roll out.
I don't know every singleplayer in the case.
You're not coming to listen tomy podcast to hear about the
Karen Reed trial, and I get that.
(36:39):
I'm here to do so much more.
I have much more informationand knowledge about Sandra's
case.
I really look forward tojustice for Sandra Birchmore.
Thank you for listening.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind.
(37:00):
Massachusetts and New Englandcrime stories and history and
advocacy.
Follow Crime of the Truest Kindonline at Crime of the Truest
Kind online Crime of the TruestKind dot com.
Tell your friends come to alive show.
(37:21):
Nico's here.
Hi.
Online crimeofthetruestkindcom.
Tell your friends, Come to alive show.
Nico's here.
Hi.
I'll be back at Off Cabot inSeptember.
More live shows to come.
Say bye, Nico, I must be going.
Lock your goddamn doors.
We'll be right back.
(37:46):
We'll see you next time.
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