New England's Unsolved & Serial Killer Hysteria, with Bob Ward of Boston 25 News

Veteran crime reporter Bob Ward of Boston 25 News joins me for a candid conversation about the recent online hysteria surrounding a New England serial killer after 12 people have been recovered around Massachusetts and Rhode Island. 

Drawing from his nearly three decades as host of "New England's Unsolved," Bob shares the profound impact of covering cases like Theresa Corley's 1978 murder—a young woman he personally knew before her death. This intimate connection frames a deeper discussion about the responsibility journalists carry when amplifying victims' stories.

The conversation turns to the troubling social media frenzy claiming a serial killer is responsible for recent bodies discovered throughout New England. While acknowledging the region's history with serial predators, we agree that there is cause for concern about how unfounded speculation harms legitimate investigations and re-traumatizes families. 

"It's very tempting to think that one bad guy or two bad guys are responsible for all this evil, "but I just don't think life works that way."  -Bob Ward

We spotlight numerous cases deserving attention—Melanie Melanson, Debra Melo, Bruce Crowley, Reina Morales Rojas—whose families continue waiting for answers while internet sleuths chase shadows.

• The justice system often fails victims' families by providing few updates while requiring them to repeatedly relive trauma at parole hearings

• Online speculation about a "New England serial killer" diverts resources from legitimate investigations

• Internet misinformation is causing real harm, from false confessions to wrongful accusations

• True crime advocacy should focus on supporting families and respecting victims rather than sensationalizing cases

Join us at Middlesex County Superior Court on Monday, May 12th at 10am for the arraignment in Charlene Rosemond's murder case, whose family has waited 16 years for justice.

Other cases included: Andy Puglisi, Beth Brodie, Jeffrey Curley, Janet Downing, Colleen Ritzer, Shaun Ouillette, Miguel Oliveras, New Bedford Highway murders, Boston Strangler, Henry Bedard, Jr, Deanna Cremin, Bruce Crowley, Brittany Tee, Maura Murray, Shannan Gilbert, Lonene Rogers "Lonnie's Law"

Up next, the history of serial killers in New England.

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Episode Transcript

Anngelle Wood (00:00):
Well, hello.

(00:00):
My name is Anngelle Wood, andthis is Crime of the Truest Kind
.
It's always an exciting week inthe headlines, isn't it?

(00:26):
I talk about this a lot.
I tap out often from the chaosthat's swirling around us and I
recommend it.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind.
I talk about Massachusetts andNew England crime stories.
I talk about history, generally,and always advocacy- focused.

(00:47):
I am always on the side of thevictims and their families and
in this true crime space that Ihave found myself in, I do
believe some people don't wantthat, that being the advocacy
part.
I think some people are drawnto true crime because they like

(01:09):
the sensationalism of it, and Isay this all the time.
I don't sit here and clutch mypearls and tell everybody
they're doing everything wrong.
I watch the documentaries.
I watch the documentaries, Iread the books, the serial
killer docs.
Yeah, if I were to say you know, the true crime on the fringe

(01:30):
is where it gets weird, I don'tactually think that the weird
stuff is on the fringes.
I think the weird stuff in truecrime is right smack dab in the
middle, and those of us who aretrying to work for the greater
good may be the ones on thefringes.
That's how I feel about ittoday.
Trying to work for the greatergood may be the ones on the
fringes.
That's how I feel about ittoday.
When I prepare an episode ofCrime of Truest Kind, I'm

(01:51):
constantly reading andresearching to find more
information, so I'm alwayswriting scripts.
I have a number of scripts thatare in various stages of
completion.
For this week's show, I hadplanned to do something
completely different and Ichanged course, as I often do.
You've probably heard me saythis a lot.

(02:13):
My background is in live radio.
You learn to fly by the seat ofyour pants.
Sometimes those best laid plansget thrown out the window for
something else that has hit thewire, so to speak.
That's what I did this week.
I have a script that's nearlycomplete about the history of

(02:34):
serial killers in New England,because, yes, they have and do
exist.
If you've spent any timelistening to my show, you know
that I love New England history,I love researching it, I love
reading about it, I love tellingyou about it, so much so that I
often have to stop myself fromtelling you too much before you

(02:58):
totally tune me out.
On this week's show I talk toreporter Bob Ward.
He's from Massachusetts.
I love my mass hole friends.
He kid mass native Emersongraduate.
He worked at WJAR-TV inProvidence, then WMUR-Chillin'

(03:29):
09 in Manchester, Then he landedat Boston 25 News in 1996.
One year to go to the big 3-0.
I hope he gets more than a penand a windbreaker.
That might be a little insidebaseball but I spent more than
20 years in radio in Boston andI have a collection of ski
jackets, ballpoint pens and acopious amount of bumper

(03:51):
stickers, a MassachusettsAssociated Press Award, the Mass
State Police Superintendent'sCommendation Award, the FBI
Director's Community LeadershipAward in recognition from the
Molly Bush Center and Foundationfor his reporting on missing

(04:13):
children.
Bob also served on the Board ofDirectors for the Garden of
Peace, a memorial to the victimsof homicide.
As host of New England'sUnsolved, the long-running

(04:42):
investigative series on Boston25 News, he shines a light on
cases across New England,covering missing persons and
cold cases, to amplify theirstories, to generate new tips
and hopefully get people talkingthe people we need to talk.
Bob and I had a couple ofconversations this week, one of
which will be on Boston 25 Newsnext week.
We talk about that questionthat we see continuously those
of us who follow a lot of newsand true crime feeds Is there a
serial killer in New England?
We know that there have been,and on the next show I will

(05:08):
break all of that down.
This is episode 86, NewEngland's Unsolved, with Bob
Ward of Boston 25 News.
I find that this is a selectivefrenzy.

(05:28):
There are a lot of missingpeople, some for years, decades
Maura Murray, Deborah Mello,Reina Morales Rojas, Melanie
Melanson, Brittany T, BruceCrowley it's a very long list.
We talk a lot about these casesin our conversation.

(05:50):
There is a contagious hysteria.
It is a common phenomenon inthe world of missing and
murdered people, People with ahunger to exploit tragedy for
sensationalist purposes.
There are people who claim tobe someone who has been missing.
This wastes valuable resourcesIn crime cases like this, in the

(06:10):
ensuing chaos that people seemto love.
This narrative, thisperpetuation, this rumor and
speculation, will cause peopleto report innocent people.
They have a weird neighbor wholooked at them.
Funny.
They don't like their boss,they split up with someone and
now they are reported as apossible serial murderer.
It's real.
It also affects how lawenforcement might respond to

(06:33):
such claims.
I'll say it again.
So many cases, Cases I hopepeople learn about and put some
energy into.
We live in a world where peopleare trying to get internet
famous on other people'sheartache.
There still are good ones outthere.
I know it sounds very PBS, butlook for the helpers.
In the first part of myconversation with Bob, we talk

(06:55):
about a number of crime casesthat I'm familiar with and that
he has covered and the impact ofthose crime cases.
I really enjoy talking withsomebody like Bob Ward Because
he's been in it.
He's been talking to families,he's been learning this
information, he's been going todetectives, he's in parole
hearings, he's covering trials.

(07:17):
It may seem really glamorous tosome people, but it's hard work
and it's important work.
We talk about the impact notonly on the families who are
most affected by this, but theimpact that it has on us.

Bob Ward (07:38):
When you do take the time to meet the families and
really talk to them, it kind ofchanges you, definitely changes
your approach to these storiesand what's going on.

Anngelle Wood (07:48):
I have Julie Murray and the Murray's to thank
for a lot of my sort of crashcourse in this, because I've
learned a lot through their I'llsay journey, because it's been
21 years that they've.
They had no idea what they weredealing with and when Mara went
missing it wasn't like it isnow.

(08:10):
They were trying to figure itout as they went along.
Facebook had, like launchedthat week, so it wasn't even
that they could go to socialmedia and do the things that we
do now.
That family's been through somuch and talk about people
hijacking their story andexploiting them.
Oh my, they have a coalition,which is something that we're

(08:31):
trying to do in Massachusetts,where we're starting sort of a
chapter of it, if you will.
We didn't know what to do.
We don't know where to go.
They try to report their lovedone missing.
They're told that, oh, they'renot missing, They'll be home.

(08:51):
You know these same storiesover and over and over again.
I've met families of murderedloved ones.
To where they're.
Oh my God, what do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
And more recently, you see thejustice for Beth.
Mm-hmm you see the justice forBeth.
One year ago her teen killerwent up for parole.

Bob Ward (09:07):
Her family was, I mean , understandably furious and
hurt and freaked out becausethey were told that kid was
never going to get out.
I think the way theygrandfathered in all of those
cases was really probably thecruelest thing that the state
has done in a very, very longtime.
It's just unfathomable how thathappened and on that decision or

(09:30):
the yeah, I think the initialdecision came from the SJC came
on Christmas Eve.
Then there were a couple ofcourt rulings.
You know the decision to do itretroactively and grandfather
everybody in so that thesepeople that the families thought
they didn't have to think aboutanymore.
Not only did these perpetratorsget a parole hearing, they get
them every five years or less.

(09:52):
So Bob Curley's you know Bob,well, bob, this isn't the same
thing.
Because James Charles James wasconvicted of second degree.
He was always going to get aparole hearing, but his first
parole hearing five years ago itwas COVID, so it wasn't in
person, it was all remote and Icovered it and I listened to it.
But the problem was that theparole board I don't know why

(10:15):
took over a year to make adecision.
They had a five-year setbackbut they were already a year
into it.
So now Bob Curley all of asudden finds himself having to
go to the parole board.
June he's got another parolehearing.
It felt like we just did that.
Philip Chisholm same thing.
He couldn't get life, no parole.

(10:37):
And so the judge, who laterbecame an SGAC justice.
He tried to stack the penaltiesas long as he could to spare
the family.
But 40 years I think it's 40years Philip Chisholm gets a
parole hearing and you know theparents of the victim are.
They said, you know we're notgoing to have to deal with this,

(10:57):
but my, our two children will,you know, brother and sister.
And that's going to be their.
They're going to be my our ageand they're going to going to be
there.
They're going to be my our ageand they're going to have to be
doing parole hearings everycouple of years.
And for what, to what end?
You know and you see whathappened to that danvers teacher
, colleen ritzer, brutal it's socruel to see this.

Anngelle Wood (11:17):
One nice thing that comes of this is I see the
families come together.
I went to Beth Brodie'skiller's hearing and that was
eye-opening.
He just gets to sit there andtalk.

Bob Ward (11:30):
Yeah.

Anngelle Wood (11:30):
Talk and talk, and talk, and talk and talk and
I see his family's just likebeyond devastated, and it was
nice that other families, likeJanet Downing's family was there
.
I met her son and I havesubsequently had sort of a
online friendship, if you will,with her daughter, and I've had
communication with ShaunOuiellette, the little boy from
Canton who was murdered back inthe 80s.

(11:50):
I've had communication with hisyounger brother, half-brother
Rod Matthews.
He's going to get out, if he'snot out already.
That's heartbreaking.

Bob Ward (12:00):
It is really heartbreaking.
I know I've covered all thoseparole hearings and I'll
probably cover Jane's when hecomes up.
The fact is he's a relativelyyoung man and I could see a time
where he does get out andpeople forget how heinous Jeff
Curley's murder was.
But he's entitled to it.
I mean it was second degreemurder.
The jury didn't get firstdegree.

(12:21):
I don't know.
I didn't cover the trial.
I wish I did, but I know thatin his case and he was the
mastermind of the whole JeffCurley thing he had a different
lawyer than Sicari and it wasRobert Jubinville who sat on the
governor's counsel for I don'tknow how long he had the case
moved out to.
I believe it was WorcesterCounty and that's where his

(12:41):
trial was.
Sicari stayed in Middlesex andSakari got life, no parole.
But Janes got it moved, gotsecond degree.
I think it was 25 or 30 yearsto life.
It's just brutal because thatmurder, when you think about it,
that murder brought the statewithin one vote of the death
penalty, bringing it back, andthe main person behind it is at

(13:05):
some point he might get out, whoknows and when Bob's not around
to fight it.
You know it's his children, youknow will they have that same
fight?
It just really doesn't make anysense to me.
My heart breaks for all of them.
Beth Brody's brother I workedwith him a lot and I was at that
hearing too, and you knowyou're right.
You sit there and everything isabout the person seeking parole

(13:28):
and the family doesn't get tospeak until the very end.
It's about two hours in, maybethree hours in, Everybody's
tired.
They just want to roll itthrough as fast as they can, and
it makes you wonder how muchthe parole board weighs.
What the families even have tosay.
It's sort of like a judge atsentencing when the victim's
families have the right to speak.

(13:49):
The judge has already made uphis mind and what the sentence
is going to be, and it's all.
It's a formality and I just Ihope I'm never in the position
to have to wonder you know whydo I bother doing this?

Anngelle Wood (14:01):
I wish we didn't have to do this as much as as I
have.
Really, I've grown as a personin this space I don't know what
to call it.
It's something that I have putmyself into and then it became
something completely differentand unexpected that I found
these families and the sufferingthat they've gone through and I

(14:23):
just want to help somehow.
So, when all of these thingsare hitting the news and you
know there's so much for us totalk about, Bob, because you're,
you're, you know, we have.
We're not from the same area,but we are and we were not.
Our career paths aren't thesame, but they kind of are,
because you grew up around hereand you went to college in

(14:44):
Boston and you were lucky enoughto be able to stay in Boston,
and me too, you know, I'm fromNorthern Massachusetts, in
Southern New Hampshire a littlebit, and then I went to college
in Boston and I got lucky enoughto be hired at Boston radio
stations and we have this greathistory, but we live in this
amazing place.
And to talk with someone whoknows the history of some of

(15:05):
these things and I guess for meto say I've studied them sounds
a little strange, but I do awhole lot of reading about this
stuff and to be able to talkabout these things.
I mean, I think we couldprobably do hours and hours and
hours about all of these cases.
I know we want to talk aboutthe subject at hand, the serial
killer situation, this frenzy,but I want to ask you a little

(15:28):
bit about your connection toTheresa Corley, because I know
that you know her from yourearlier days.
Tell me a little bit about howyou know her and how you came to
understand her case.

Bob Ward (15:42):
Sure, when I was a teenager, probably 16 years old,
I worked my first part-time jobregular part-time job, where
I'm not mowing lawns orsomething, babysitting,
something like that.
I was at Star Market inFranklin, massachusetts, and I
was a bag boy and she was hiredaround the same time I was.
She was a cashier.

(16:03):
She was hired around the sametime I was.
She was a cashier and she wastwo years older than me.
I remember that.
So she was to me at the time.
She was an older woman.
Right, she was from Bellingham,which was the next town over,
and back then, even though itwas one town away, they might as
well have had a wall up betweenthe two towns because the
Franklin kids didn't reallyassociate with the Bellingham

(16:24):
kids.
Nothing out of spite oranything, it's just the way the
social situation was back then.
So I, you know, I just going towork and I was kind of
intrigued by her.
She was very friendly, she wasfunny, a little flirtatious, and
it was just.
You know, she was one of thosepeople that was you'd go to work
and a part-time job like thatand you're going to hang around

(16:47):
for four or five hours.
It was a nice person to workwith and you know, one day she
didn't work there anymore.
One day she left and she got ajob, uh, somewhere else.
She was putting herself throughcollege I think she just
started junior college and soshe was doing something else.
She was on another path.
More people come in your life,moves on Well.

(17:08):
Shortly after she left, a fewmonths after she left, it was
Christmas time, and the reason Iremember that is they had a
Christmas party at Star Market,and just before that I think we
were getting ready for it, ormaybe I was still at work, I
don't remember.
But around that same time oneof the other employees told me.

(17:29):
She said to me did you hearabout Teresa Corley?
Do you remember that girl?
And I said sure, and what shedid is?
She just kind of put her headdown, whispered, and she did
this.
She put her finger across herthroat and I said what are you
talking about?
And she said she's dead.
And you know I was shocked andI said what happened to her and

(17:50):
she said she was murdered.
I just remember the moment,just being shocked by the whole
thing.
There was a Christmas party acouple of days later and it cast
a pall over the whole thing.
As you might imagine, some ofher really close friends were
working with us at Star Market.
I don't think they were at theChristmas party.
You just got this sense ofdread.

(18:11):
I did go to her wake and I wentto her funeral and I saw her.
It was an open casket.
It was just a horrific thingand all we heard was that she
was out hitchhiking, she gotpicked up and she was murdered.
The end and it was awful.
You know we thought about it alot and it was just terrible.

(18:36):
But you know, time goes on.
You know I go off to collegeand I start my career and do
other things and every now andthen I would hear from somebody
who remembered Theresa and wouldsay something about the case
and I got the sense that it wasstill unsolved.
When I worked in Providence,rhode Island, from I think it
was 88 to 96, there was a murderin Woonsocket, doreen Picard.

(19:00):
That happened at around thesame time as Teresa and the
Woonsocket Call was reportingabout potential ties to the two
cases.
I was also working in theBedford Highway killings case
that would have been 89-90.
And they were finding murderedwomen along the sides of roads
in the New Bedford area andoccasionally someone would write

(19:22):
something about how Teresa'scase, even though it's a few
years earlier, could somehow beconnected, and I would always
ask about it and I was alwaystold that case is different.
These cases are something else.
When I was working at, I startedworking in Boston in 96.

(19:42):
In 1999, the station asked mewe're going into a ratings
period and they wanted somespecial reports done and the
general manager had asked me toprofile four unsolved cases.
It could be anything, whateveryou want to do, and I chose
Teresa as one of the first onesbecause I wanted to know what

(20:04):
happened to her and through that.
That is kind of what started meon this journey on what became
New England's Unsolved.
But also it was veryinformative just working here.
Her one case taught me so muchabout how crimes are
investigated, how people aretreated, how cold cases are

(20:26):
dealt with by a districtattorney, what it's like to be
questioned by the police,because at one time the state
police came right here to myhouse and talked to me and there
was like a moment there when Ithought they were accusing me of
something.
It was all of that.
All of that just really, reallyhelped, and to this day.
You know, I just I can't believeher case isn't solved To this

(20:50):
day.
I think it should have beensolved in 1979.
If this happened, if thishappened today, I do believe it
would have been solved prettyquickly.
But it was a different age, itwas a different time.
I think it could still besolved, but they're going to
need a couple of lucky breaks.
One of the saddest things for mewas I had been pushing for an
exhumation for Teresa.

(21:11):
I went privately to meet withthe district attorney.
I brought a lawyer with me andI made the case that you should
think about exhuming her bodybecause she was raped and there
may be DNA underneath herfingernails and the reason that
was even necessary was there wasa rape kit done on her.
But the rape kit was lost in afire flood.

(21:33):
I don't know what reallyhappened, but the rape kit
doesn't exist.
Bottom line rape kit doesn'texist.
So I had a meeting with the DA,agreed to privately meet and
made my case and they wouldn'tdo it.
They said it was too expensive,they didn't think they would
get anything out of it, andevery time I talked to the
family I kept saying you know, Ireally think the exhumation,
exhumation and Jerry Hood, whois Teresa's sister.

(21:56):
She finally pushed for it.
When she realized it wasn'tgoing to happen, she started
raising money to do it herselfand in the 11th hour the state
police came to their senses andthey said we will take care of
this, because Jerry not only wasgoing to exhume the body, she
was going to send it out ofstate to have it examined.
Luckily, cooler heads prevailed.

(22:17):
They did the exhumation and Iwas in the cemetery with Jerry
and her other sister, linda, andwe were watching as the casket
came out of the ground.
You know, I knelt at the sideof that casket and at the open
casket and there it was again infront of me.
It was chilling.
Jerry told me the saddest thingI think I ever heard.

(22:40):
She said Teresa was buried inher prom dress high school prom
dress because we couldn't affordto have a prom dress.
And she said I wore that samedress to my prom and that's what
Teresa is in right now.

Anngelle Wood (22:56):
Wow.

Bob Ward (22:57):
Isn't that something?
And all of that, just it'shumbling to be.
You know that they would acceptme to be there for that moment.
You know it was just surreal tobe standing there and watch
that happen, watch that casketcome out of the ground.
So I always keep that with me.
I just gave a talk at StonehillCollege about a month ago.
They had me in and I talkedabout Teresa and a couple of

(23:21):
other cases.
But I almost always when I speakto groups, talk about Teresa's
case.
And I've talked to prosecutors,I've talked to state police and
I'll say I challenged them.
I said you're the ones thatinvestigate these things.
Is there something here thatnobody is thinking of?
Can you put your minds to this?
And it worked once One timethere was somebody who worked in

(23:44):
the ME's office.
She lived in Bellingham, hadnever heard of the case, wow.
And so she went and got thefile and said I'm going to see
if there's something here we cantest.
And it's just frustratinglyslow to get progress on cold
cases and you really needdedicated investigators to look
into things because they've gota lot of other cases they need

(24:04):
to look at.
And you know it's just a sadfact of life that if these cases
don't get resolved fairly, youknow, within a year or two, the
danger of them going stone coldis very, very high.

Anngelle Wood (24:16):
It's incredibly important for families to keep
pushing because one else isgoing to Right.

Bob Ward (24:24):
I always tell them that.
Don't be shy.
Take out your calendar andwhatever you feel comfortable
with every 30 days, every sixmonths, whatever it is, just
write down.
You're going to be callingwhoever is the victim advocate,
if it's a prosecutor, if it'sstate police and you're probably
going to get an attitude backbecause they don't want to talk
to you.
But you have to do that.

(24:45):
They do it and they talk aboutit.
It ticks them off and I know itdoes, because they have these
conversations and I think lawenforcement could do a much
better job handling and talkingto the victims and I think
that's what the New Hampshire wewere talking about.
You know the event up in NewHampshire.
They've done two of them so far.
It was the same thing.
They felt like they could notget.

(25:06):
Nobody would take their calls,so nobody would listen, and now
they're just supposed to carryon with their lives and live
their lives like it was before.
That's impossible.
You can't do that.
So that's one thing I wouldlove to see improve on law
enforcement is the way victims'families are treated.
Sometimes some officers aregreat.

(25:27):
I don't mean to paint everybodywith a broad brush.
Some of them could use somehelp there and have a liaison or
somebody that can talk to them.

Anngelle Wood (25:36):
So many families have said to me or I've heard
them say an advocate, we canhave an advocate, and I don't
know how to drive that pointacross.

(26:19):
But you know we need to shiftsome resources somehow to see
how we better serve familiesFrom law enforcement's point of
view.

Bob Ward (26:29):
They have a case that they want to make an arrest and
they want to prosecute, so theyhave to keep the facts of the
case pure.
They can't let it get out.
The families want to knoweverything that's in that file.
Well, those are two completelyopposite viewpoints, and
something has to be done whereyou can at least talk to each

(26:49):
other.
You can't share the contents ofthe file, but I think you can
have a discussion with thefamily to at least let them know
if work is being done, whatwork might be done and how it's
going to happen, and then behonest with them.
We tried this, this and thisand we're not having a lot of
luck.
Let's be realistic here,because in the absence of that,

(27:13):
a lot of families start thinkingwell, the cops either at best
don't care or they're allcorrupt.

Anngelle Wood (27:20):
We've heard that word a lot.

Bob Ward (27:21):
You hear it almost every day Cops are all corrupt.
They're only in it forthemselves and they're not
interested when I know for afact that's not true.
I'm not saying there isn'tcorruption, but I'm saying for
the vast majority of the casesthat I've gone through you see
some very well-meaningdetectives that do put in the
time and do care and they do goand talk to families when they

(27:43):
can.
But it does get to that pointalmost inevitably every single
time family wants to say Xamount of time has gone by.
Let me look at the file.
Just cannot do that.

Anngelle Wood (27:56):
They won't and I know of a.
There's a woman in anotherstate, believe in Pennsylvania,
whose mother went missing many,many, many years ago and one of
the legislative things thatshe's working on is in her state
and I wish we could do thisfederally, but in her state
she's trying to get legislationpassed that if a case is X

(28:17):
amount of years old say like 25or years more cold, old and cold
that family members can getaccess to those files.
I'm behind her.
I really hope that she can getthat passed and maybe we can
start working on some of thisother legislative stuff.
I mean, in Massachusetts welive in a great place but we

(28:38):
have a long way to go right.
I know Theresa Corley's casehas been majorly impactful for
you.
There are a couple of othercases that have impacted you
over the course of these yearsthat you have been doing New
England Unsolved.

Bob Ward (28:52):
Sure, I mean, there's so many.
I hesitate to name them becauseI'll exclude something that I'm
just not thinking of at themoment and I don't want anybody
to think that I've forgotten,but there have been so many.
Everybody knows about MollyBish and Holly Peranin.
At least everybody knows aboutMolly Bish and Holly Peranin.
At least I hope they all knowabout those cases.
And it's hard to think of thosetwo young people being snatched

(29:16):
and murdered in centralMassachusetts in very bucolic
places where, honestly it's acliche, these things don't
happen here.
Well, they don't, but they did.
And you know I've done a lot ofstories about the suspect in the
Molly Bish case, rodney Stanger, and you know the connections

(29:39):
that he had to that area andwhat he was capable of and
everything are just incredible.
Holly Peranin I was just intouch with the family a few
weeks ago because her motherjust passed.
Yeah, and it's, it's, it's justso sad.
And I've been to their home andI've interviewed Molly's dad,
holly's dad and her cousins andthe pain is you can just see it

(30:04):
on their faces.
The same with Molly Bish andI've gotten to know John and
Maggie and Heather and they'rejust regular people thrust into
these horrible situations.
You mentioned Maura Murray.
I've gotten to know the Murrayfamily, the same thing and how
frustrating they're spread allover the place.
And Maura's case is way up inNew Hampshire, almost.

(30:27):
You know, one spinning distanceof Canada, and you know how
hard it is for them to keepgoing back and forth and
advocate.
And there are a lot of otherfamilies who maybe you know I've
covered the cases but theydon't get a lot of attention and
people forget about them.
But I'll still get peoplereaching back out to me and
saying you know, thank you fordoing this.

(30:48):
Do you think we can dosomething else?
And they all impact me in someway.
I just did Henry Bedard's storyfor the second time this year
and I talked to his dad.
I've had people today.
It just ran last night, thestory ran last night and I have
people today telling me howtouched they were to see Henry's
father, who's 92 years old nowand is justifiably concerned.

(31:11):
He's never going to know whokilled his son in 1974.
And even though the case is 50years old, for a dad who's 92,
it might as well have happenedyesterday, because things don't
change.
Things don't change and HenryBedard Sr has a good group of
investigators who are lookinginto this and are devoted to

(31:32):
this, trying to find Henry Jr'skiller.
It all kind of builds uptogether and you know, every now
and then Facebook is great withthose Facebook memories my
Facebook page still has that aswell and every now and then a
story will kick up that Ihaven't covered in a while
because some of them getresolved and you just see how.

(31:53):
You know, I read what I wroteback in the time and I'm
reminded of what these familiesare going through.
So it's just really, really.
I feel blessed to do the work,as much as it, as depressing as
it can be.
It is the one thing that I dothat I feel like really makes a
difference and helps me go towork every day.

Anngelle Wood (32:15):
You absolutely are making a difference, because
you know I think we touched onit earlier in our conversation
that you have to find a way.
You can't just go on air everysingle night and, just you know,
pluck the same stories over andover again, because that's not
what you.
You have people to answer toand in a perfect world we could

(32:36):
just go on and talk abouteverything we wanted every
single night.
But you have to have sort of anangle.
I know it does sound verycorporate or however, anybody
wants to receive that, but youhave to have an angle and it's
important that we are payingattention to the developments in
the case and that we are alittle bit closer to it.
And that's when, you know, Itry to keep a close eye on the

(32:56):
anniversaries, right?
That's when we can.
We can do a little bit morewith when the anniversaries are
coming.
I have a couple of things inthe works that I will tell you
about regarding a couple of caseanniversaries in the
not-too-distant future.
A case that recently astoundedeven her own family was the
arrest of someone who's nowbeing charged with the murder of

(33:20):
Charlene Rosemond In some waythe Everett family.
Charlene has been 16 yearsalmost to the day.
Charlene has been 16 years.
Almost to the day.
Her sister Rose who's wonderful, who I've struck up a bit of a
friendship with she got a callout of the blue getting on a
plane.
They called her to say here'swhat's happening.
For years they thought that noone was looking into her

(33:41):
sister's case.
They can't tell you they'relooking into it.
I guess they didn't want that.
They're looking into it.
I guess they didn't want that.
But to say you know, 16 yearsis a very long time for families
to be wondering and hoping theyhad an idea all along.
But they can't go after thepeople.
It's amazing that this break inthe cases come and it's a long

(34:03):
way to trial.
But the arraignment's Mondayand I'm going to.
I'm going to do my best to bethere.

Bob Ward (34:07):
I'll probably see you there.
I've gotten to know them aswell and I was blown away by
that.
I had just done a story abouther case and Deanna Cremin,
Right, Because the city councilhad a resolution about, you know
, just basically urging the DA,which was Mary and Ryan, to not
give up on these cases andwanted to profile both, to not

(34:28):
give up on these cases andwanted to profile both.
And as that is being done, asthat resolution is coming out,
there's an arrest in Charline'scase and Deanna's case, sadly,
is still unsolved.
Her mom has been talking toCatherine Cremin for all these
years, decades now, and I'm justtouched by I, you just I'm just

(34:49):
touched by the resiliency andthe strength.
I don't know where she finds itand she also lost her.
Her other daughter died not toolong ago and it's just a.
It's just hard to believe howpeople, how resilient they can
be and how strong they can be tocarry on with their lives, when
somebody close to them has beenmurdered and decades go by and
there's no arrest and you startthinking that everybody out

(35:10):
there must have had something todo with it or everybody knows.
They're just not telling youand it's a terrible, terrible
weight to carry.
So we'll see.
I know, and I know about two ofthe big anniversaries coming up
next month the 25th anniversary, because those happened back to
back.
It's hard to believe that thosethings are still going on.

Anngelle Wood (35:30):
Debbie Mello and Molly Bish it's a week apart
between Deborah and Molly,deborah's family, her sister's
family and the Bish family.
You know they did the rightthing.
They teamed up to support eachother and I really see a lot of
that with the families and I'dlove to be able to bring more of
those families together so theyfeel like they're not alone.

Bob Ward (35:48):
Right.
I know Heather Bish is veryactive in the victims community
and trying to make sure thatvictims' rights are respected.
She's got all the credibilityin the world because of what her
family's going through.

Anngelle Wood (36:00):
You touched on some really important points
there, Bob, when you said thatit's really painful and the
resiliency of these families gothrough.
And that is one of the biggestthings I think about now that we
have found ourselves in thischurning frenzy of the Internet,

(36:21):
and that's really when they sayeveryone's talking about.
Is there a serial killer in NewEngland?
Who's everybody the internet?
Now we're up to 12 peoplereportedly found over the course
of the last couple of months,Not all of which I'm going to

(36:41):
list here, but I will certainlywrite about it 12 families who
now have to deal with this newson top of their missing and or
murdered loved one.
So they're finding people, someof whom are not identified.
So that poses a lot ofquestions for me.

(37:01):
I always try to drive home themessage that families in this
situation really should havetheir DNA in the databases.
When somebody is found, thechance is greater that they'll
be connected with their families.
You've been covering thispotential.
Is there a New England serialkiller?
Let's unpack that a little bit.

(37:23):
I know that there are a lot ofpeople who have gone missing.
We see the numbers and when welook at the databases it's not
everyone who's missing.
I've gone through and pulledsome numbers.
Just this afternoon I waspulling through In New England
747 missing persons cases inNamUs.

(37:44):
That's not everybody that'smissing.
Those are just the people whohave been entered into NamUs.
That's not everybody that'smissing.
Those are just the people whohave been entered into NamUs and
we break it down with, oddly,right now, 222 missing people in
Massachusetts and Connecticutrespectively.
We have the same number rightnow.
That's bananas.
Rhode Island the littlest state35.

(38:05):
New Hampshire has 62 people.
I'm sorry 61 now because AmandaGrazuski was found.
She was a part of that, sothankfully she was found in
Derry in March.
She was missing for five years.
Maine has 149 listed on NamUs.
Unidentified is a whole nothercan of worms.

(38:25):
So when we're seeing peopletalk about, oh, there is
definitely a serial killer, ifyou try to in any way bring a
little bit of common sense to it, people just want to tell you
that you don't know what you'retalking about.
I don't spend a lot of time inthose groups, bob.
For all of those reasons andmore, I think a lot of things
about this People.

(38:46):
They want to be part of thishysteria, they like to inject
themselves into it and you know,just regular folks like to do
that because they like to feellike they're part of something
and maybe there's a little bitof the citizen detective and
we've seen that and we've talkedabout this.
We've seen that and it can workfor the good.

(39:09):
But oftentimes it just muddiesthe waters.

Bob Ward (39:12):
Absolutely can muddy the waters because it's taking
time away from any investigationthat's going to take place.
It can move detectives intoanother area when they should be
paying attention to this.
They're now being pulled overhere and that can definitely be
a problem.
It's very tempting to thinkthat one bad guy or two bad guys

(39:35):
are responsible for all thisevil that's taking place all
around us.
It's a very enticing idea, andI wish life worked that way,
because that would mean that wecould solve a big problem very
simply by just finding thisserial killer or one or two
other people and bring them inand find justice and somehow

(39:56):
restore the balance toeverything.
And I just don't think lifeworks that way.
Now I do think that there havebeen serial killers that have
gone through New England andMassachusetts that have not been
brought to, that have gonethrough New England and
Massachusetts that have not beenbrought to justice.
I absolutely believe that Someof them are famous, like the
highway killings in New Bedford,which is still unsolved.

(40:18):
And then there's some otherones that you know.
I look at them and think, boy,you have to think that there's
something else to this than justa bunch of isolated murders,
because of the types of victimsthey are when the case happened
and how unusual something is.
But I try to resist for themost part.
I try to resist linking toomany things together because it

(40:39):
just takes away from theattention, away from the
individual cases that have takenplace.
I remember when Molly Bish wastaken, a lot of people looked at
Holly Peranin and thought,because of the names and the
fact they were both blonde, bothfemale and taken 10 years apart
, that aha, it must be the sameperson.
And while I agree you cannotrule that out, I don't think you

(41:04):
should be so invested that youcan't look at the other
possibilities.
And I think that's the dangerof linking everything together,
because if you're only lookingfor one, you might not be
looking for any.
And I do respect people lookinginto it and having an interest
in this.
I really do.
I mean, I look at the Facebookgroup and I kind of watch to see
what they're talking about andtrying to see well, do they have

(41:26):
a point here, is somethinggoing on?
To see what they're talkingabout and trying to see.
Well, do they have a point hereIs something going on In this
particular case that's takingplace right now.
What I mean is, from the wayI'm looking at it is from the
beginning of March until now.
Those cases I think that'swhere the 12 are.
I'm not really convinced thatthat's all the work of one or
two people, a serial killer.

(41:46):
And I know that theMassachusetts cases from the
research I've done.
Those cases are separate andthere are.
They've made an arrest in oneof them.
Another one is a suicide.
There are answers to those.
I don't know enough about allof the Connecticut cases and

(42:09):
some of those are kind of closetogether and so who knows, maybe
a serial killer struck a coupleof places, but the ones near us
in Massachusetts right now itdoes not appear to be the case.
But you always have to belooking, you always have to
watch because you know, in NewBedford I remember when that got

(42:31):
started it didn't take long forpolice in New Bedford to start
stitching it together that therewas a serial killer because the
bodies of women were beingfound.
But these are marginalizedwomen that were found actually
not in New Bedford but on thehighways around there and they
were found.
I think they were found one ata time.
I think maybe a couple of themwere found close together.

Anngelle Wood (42:55):
There's an MO to people like this generally you
know ties together.
Right, we see it with the GilgoBeach slash.

Bob Ward (43:03):
Long.

Anngelle Wood (43:04):
Island serial killer case.
Right, we see that when theywere looking for one person,
they were looking for the womanShannon, and they ended up
finding several victims all inthis area of this lovely but
also secluded area of LongIsland and they started to

(43:27):
connect them and subsequently,after they did make an arrest,
they've connected more peoplethat have been found.
So, yes, and I think people seethat case and they think
there's a level not for everyone, but there's a level of
excitement among certain kindsof people to where they're like
what's the next thing I canfixate on and be fascinated with

(43:50):
, Because you know, there are alot of other pretty major crime
cases going on around us in thegreater Boston area that stems
outside into other parts of NewEngland.
Yes any time someone goesmissing and any time a body is
recovered, that is cause formajor concern.

(44:12):
But the first thing should notbe to suggest it's a serial
killer and we need to go and getsomeone because, as I've said
through many conversations aboutthis, this is going to
unfortunately encourage certainkinds of people to just start
dropping dimes on people.
My neighbor is a bit weird.

(44:34):
My neighbor is kind of goofyand tall, you know.
I think about how they describethe man who was arrested for
the Gilgo Beach murders.
They called him Shrek or anogre.

Bob Ward (44:44):
Right, right, he was weird looking right.

Anngelle Wood (44:47):
He was weird, looking big and very
identifiable Right.
But I think about all of thethings that could sidetrack the
investigations, because thereare several in their response to
legitimate reports, right, wealways say we need people to

(45:09):
talk, we need tips, drop ananonymous tip, all of these
things to encourage people.
We've seen cases with rewardsand, surprisingly sidebar, not a
lot of cases are solved throughrewards.
I did not know that.

Bob Ward (45:23):
Yeah, I know it's the strangest thing, isn't it?

Anngelle Wood (45:25):
It really is.

Bob Ward (45:27):
I know Whitey Bulger was found with a reward, but I
think he's the exception, notthe rule.

Anngelle Wood (45:33):
Oh my gosh.
I could go on and on about thatstory, but you know this whole
fascination with serial killers.

Bob Ward (45:39):
That just occurred to me that you go back to the 60s
and the Boston Strangler, yes,and all those cases, yes, and
all those cases.
And there's a good amount ofevidence to suggest that, yes,
desalvo killed people, but notall of them, and they were all
lumped together and it was sortof out of expedience for
politics at the time.

(46:00):
Try to find the quote unquoteBoston Strangler.
Imagine that the BostonStrangler might not have ever
existed.
So I know there's DNA in theDeSalvo case that ties him to
one of the murders, but you knowthe other ones.
There's so much written aboutthat that we just don't know.
And there's a case where thefile is still sealed.
You know, after all, this timeit's still in the state archives

(46:23):
and we can't go look at it.
You know we can't see what theyhad, so we don't know what else
is in there.
But so the Boston Stranglercase.
So in its day it's just likethis conversation we're having.
These women were found in theirapartments strangled.
And is there a serial killer?
The Phantom Fiend, I think, iswhat they called him back in the
day, or is it something else?

(46:45):
And I was just a little boywhen all that was going on.
But I've done stories on it andit's intriguing to think about
it that even the BostonStrangler may not have just been
one person.
It might've been unrelatedcases that for whatever reason
were kind of lumped together.
When I was covering the highwaykillings in New Bedford it

(47:05):
always struck me that they werealways focused on the 11 women
in that case in a certaingeographical space Well
Providence, rhode Island, isjust down the road.
There was one victim found inMarion, which is Plymouth County
, and that was the only one thatwas found outside the area.
The DA had to meet with the DAin Plymouth County, o'malley,

(47:25):
ron Pena and William O'Malley.
They met and O'Malley agreed toinclude it was just so strange,
had agreed to include thatvictim from Marion into the case
of the highway killings.
But I remember asking Ron Penayou know what about these other
cases down in Rhode Island?
There were women found on theside of the road around the same

(47:46):
time and he said we're onlyfocusing on this right now.
We're not making an appealbeyond the New Bedford area.
A lot of reasons, you know why.
These things are kind of theway they are.
But serial killers don't stayin one jurisdiction they can go
wherever they want.
Obviously they're not payingattention to county lines, which
is, you know, thejurisdictional lines in
Massachusetts.
So that's why I say I don'twant to like completely discount

(48:09):
what people are coming up with,but so far I am skeptical about
linking all of these casestogether.
I think and a lot of that isbased on what I know about the
cases locally for us that theydo not seem to be related to
each other at all, that they donot seem to be related to each
other at all.

Anngelle Wood (48:27):
I do hope that some good comes of this.
I do hope that people who havethis level of interest in
do-gooding, or however you wantto term it there are a lot of
missing people, there are a lotof unsolved murders it would be
wonderful if people could takesome of those resources, take

(48:50):
some of that energy and put itinto some of these other cases,
because we know I mean, I canname so many cases off the top
of my head just in this generalvicinity Melanie Melanson from
Woburn.
Deborah Mello from Taunton,brittany T, who's been missing
just a short period of time,just a short period of time,
just very recently, just withinthe last few weeks.
A man from Mansfield I don'tknow how he pronounces it Eric

(49:12):
Wien, missing for several weeks.
His family thought he was inBoston.
His car was found in SouthKingstown, rata Island.
He is nowhere to be found.
His family's doing whateverthey can to get the word out.
They're asking people who haveproperties on the water in South
Kingstown to look at your ringcameras, see if there's anything

(49:32):
that resembles this man.
He's young, 30 something.
His family says he does traveland sometimes he does travel
solo, but it's not like him tobe out of touch and his phone
has been off since the beginningof April.
So these are some reallypressing cases.
Brittany T.
Just a few years ago, there's awoman that went missing from

(49:53):
East Boston.
A Salvadoran woman, who wasonly in the States a couple of
months, named Reina MoralesRojas, disappeared off the
streets of Somerville.
She took a rideshare,reportedly from East Boston to
Somerville, never seen again.
The public didn't even knowabout it because right at that
time well, not really right atthat time she went missing on

(50:15):
November Thanksgiving weekend of2022,.
I believe I'll have to doublecheck the dates.
And we only found out aboutRaina being missing because Anna
Walsh went missing at thebeginning of January and we know
how that took on a life of itsown and, by the way, everybody

(50:36):
deserves that level of attention.
And we only found out aboutRaina publicly because the
police didn't release thatinformation to the public until
like mid-January.

Bob Ward (50:45):
I remember this.
I remember this very clearly.
But I also know that there wereI think the FBI was looking
into that as well and I hadsources on this and I was
covering Anna Walsh and then Iwas getting calls on the other
case.
I was trying to find out what Icould and direct our resources

(51:07):
as well to cover that, and wedid, and then Anna Walsh turned
into Lindsay Clancy real quick,absolutely Right after that.

Anngelle Wood (51:15):
Yes, it was just a matter of weeks when, when the
story of Lindsay, clancy andDuxbury and murdering allegedly
murdering her three kids.

Bob Ward (51:24):
Yeah.

Anngelle Wood (51:24):
Going to go to trial sometime this year, I
believe I know that she's.

Bob Ward (51:27):
I think it's the end of the year.

Anngelle Wood (51:28):
She's in Tewksbury State Hospital now
because she really doesn't.
She's going to need lifelongcare.
Another question mark case thatI have asked a detective about,
when I saw them at there wasthe Massachusetts State Police
Unresolved Cases Unit and theBoston Police Department's
Unsolved Cases Unit differentnames and I'm getting them wrong

(51:48):
, but when I see detectives Itry to ask them questions and
see what they can tell me.
I asked about this man fromoriginally from Groveland, which
is where I grew up.
His name is Bruce Crowley.
He was living in Malden,working in Revere, went to
Provincetown at the end ofDecember, right at that same

(52:09):
time that Anna Walsh wentmissing.
I believe the timeline.
I believe it's the sametimeline he disappeared.
He was last seen by theinnkeeper in P-Town, said he was
meeting a friend for dinner.
Never returned to the inn tocollect his things.
His car was found in a parkinglot.
Bruce Crowley, no one has anyidea what happened to him.

(52:31):
Not a thing.
The last stories I've been sortof sort of on reddit trying to
find information, see if there'sanything new reached out to a
family member.
They didn't get back to me.
That's okay.
That happens a lot yeah but wesee these cases and those are
the things that get to me.
It's like we don't have anyother information.
This person's missing and notanother.

(52:54):
We don't hear another thingabout it.

Bob Ward (52:55):
Right, they go quiet real fast but the reality is we
don't hear another thing aboutit.
Right, they go quiet real fast,but the reality is people don't
just disappear into thin air.
Something had to happen to them, whether natural causes or
someone did something to them.
There is an answer, and it'svery frustrating to hear these
cases and have no resolution.
I cannot imagine being a familymember wondering what happened

(53:18):
to their loved one, who walkedout the door one day and never
to be seen again, and no storyabout what happened, absolutely
nothing.
We were talking earlier todayabout.
Miguel Olivares is the Bostonboy, young man I should say
disappeared up in Portland,maine, and that happened in 2006

(53:39):
, I believe I've been coveringthe story since 2007.
Most people have not heardabout him and his mother calls
me constantly and asks you know,can you do another story?
Can we do something else?
Well, finally they got theattention of the FBI and the
state police in Maine actuallydid do some work on this.
But you know, one personretires, takes a while for

(54:02):
somebody else to take over thecase and get brought up to speed
, but now you know there's a$10,000 reward, fbi is involved
and I think people behind barsare talking.
So let's see what happens.
But look how much time went byand how many years she was
asking people to help MyrnaGonzalez, miguel's mom, and how

(54:23):
many people you know she's beenpressed please look for my son.
And they never found him.
He was walking out of a cluband was never seen again.
And they have him on videotape,you know, walking out of the
club.
Well, where did he go?
In Portland Maine.
It's not like he's out in themiddle of nowhere.
It was Portland Maine, an urbanarea up in Maine, and he's not
from Maine, he's from Boston.

(54:43):
So there's no reason for him todisappear and no reason for him
to take off.
And he was.
I don't think.
I don't know if he was 30 yearsold, but he was a young, young
man.
It's very, very frustrating.
Was he a victim of a serialkiller?
No, he wasn't.
He wasn't.
He was a victim of didn't OD.
I don't believe he OD'd.
Somebody wanted him dead andthey killed him and they got rid

(55:05):
of the body.
But that's one case.
But it's not a traditional TedBundy kind of serial killer that
people like to think of.
But who knows if that killertook out his or her aggression
against someone else and killedsomeone else.
That is very possible, but wejust don't know.

Anngelle Wood (55:21):
We know when we look at.
You know, the decades of crimes, particularly in this area,
which I focus a lot of my timeon, and I have learned a lot
about the real life story behinda lot of these cases.
The real life story behind alot of these cases and one of

(55:42):
the one of these cases that hasresonated with me, because I
grew up in Groveland and Ididn't know the story growing up
until I became an adult is thelittle boy Andy Puglisi, who
disappeared from the public poolin Lawrence in 1976.
He was just 10 years old.
I have learned through, youknow, melanie
Perkins-McLaughlin's wonderfuldocumentary that she produced a

(56:03):
number of years ago called haveyou Seen Andy, and if it weren't
for Melanie's work, I don'tthink anybody would truly know
about Andy's case the way weknow about it, and I have
learned that we hear it on, youknow, on the TV shows, and
people don't really want tobelieve.
It's true, but there are, therewere, networks of child

(56:25):
predators.
It's different now.
There are networks of childpredators, but now we have the
Internet that works in a verydifferent way.
We have reason to believe anumber of these children who
were missing acrossMassachusetts and et cetera,

(56:45):
were in fact pulled intonetworks like this and there are
a number of bad actors behindthese things.
So when we're talking aboutlike serial things, serial
crimes, it's very different thanthese serial things that were
happening with children,particularly in the 1970s.
I know what happens.
It's happened since thebeginning of time.
You know children are harmed,unfortunately.
I think Andy's case could verywell be the work of these kinds

(57:09):
of organizations and I'velearned a lot.
I still have a lot more tolearn and that has led me to
basically training in advocacynow at this point.
But I do believe, because Ihave seen the work that people
like Melanie have done or hasdone up until now, that there
were these networks and ofcourse, we saw it on the big

(57:31):
screen when we learned aboutSpotlight, learned about
Spotlight.
The Bartholomew wrote thisseries about the clergy and it
was horrible information, but itwas true information about
child sexual abuse and the levelthat people would go to do
these things and it's horrible.
It's horrible information.
It happens and I can look atthis information they're talking

(57:57):
about.
They meaning these people onthe Internet who are talking
about it and breathing life intothese rumors and speculation.
I can see where they would sayoh well, you know it could
happen, it sure could happen.
So we need to believe.
We need to believe thesestories.
We've been telling you sincethe 70s that this could happen
and still is happening.

(58:18):
You know, I do have to look atit both ways.
I do agree with you, bob, thatis it possible?
Yeah, it is.
Are all of these 12?
No, I wish people would spendsome more time looking at all of
these other cases that camebefore.

Bob Ward (58:37):
Yeah, I mean, the main thing is I do this every day.
I try not to form an opinionthat I marry myself to, and then
if I'm proven wrong, I have tosave face.
So I just hang on to theprevious theory.
That's what I think is the realconcern here.
But I think people who educatethemselves and have a real,

(58:57):
genuine interest in somethinglike this and want to try to do
the right thing but always keepan open mind, I think can be a
very valuable thing, and I aminterested in what they come up
with, because people do findthings that somebody else might
not.
They might see a connectionthat someone else might not.

(59:18):
But as far as this, what's goingon right now, I'm very
skeptical about all of thesebeing somehow the work of one or
two people.
I just don't think that's thecase, but maybe a couple of them
that I'm not up to speed on.
I can't profess to be an experton every single one of these
individual cases.
Who knows?

(59:38):
I just know that in Connecticutlaw enforcement has gone out of
its way to say that their casesare not connected.
The Rhode Island case thefamily itself of that victim has
said do not conclude this withall the others because there is
a suspect here and we wantjustice.
And that's just pulling awayfrom the work that needs to be
done.

(59:59):
The DA out in Hamden County hehas also said that their case
that has been so far tied intothis recent body of a woman that
was found there.
He's saying it is an isolatedcase, it's not related to the
others.
So just keep that in mind asyou consider the possibilities.
The others.

(01:00:20):
So just keep that in mind asyou consider the possibilities.
And I also am hearing frompeople that there are some young
people who are freaked out bythis to the point where they
won't go for a hike in the woodsbecause, they think there's
going to be somebody out there,and that's when I think it goes
too far.
Take a deep breath, enjoy yourlife, pay attention to this, but
don't let it consume you.
Jack Levin is a criminologist atNortheastern University and I

(01:00:42):
haven't talked to him in a while, but he's written books about
serial killers and he told meonce that in the western part of
the United States, particularlyCalifornia, I think during the
60s and 70s, there were so manyserial killers out there they
were numbering them.
They didn't give them names,they were just numbered, and he
studied all those and he saidit's odd that you don't see the

(01:01:03):
same phenomenon here, becausepeople are people, but it's kind
of the whole serial killingthing.
For the most part there arealways exceptions to everything,
but for the most part that's aphenomenon on the West Coast and
I think that may be a functionof there's more land out there.
People are further apart thanin the East Coast where we're
all kind of living on top ofeach other.

(01:01:25):
But, like I said before, I meanthere are definitely
Massachusetts serial killersthat have gone through that have
not been punished and some ofthem have not I don't think have
gotten the attention theydeserve.
What's going on right now?
I still have to be convinced.

Anngelle Wood (01:01:40):
Yes, we definitely need to be discerning
in the things that we spend ourtime reading.
They don't tell the truth onthe internet.
There's no gatekeeping ongroups.

Bob Ward (01:01:51):
No, it's the Wild West .
It really is.

Anngelle Wood (01:01:54):
I mean, I read something on Facebook.
I mean, I read something onFacebook.

(01:02:21):
I'm a friend with this womanwho is involved very much, has
involvement in the Bear findingthemselves in about this and
said some of the things thatpeople were claiming in some of
these groups that they were thechild of so-and-so victim or
they were a survivor ofso-and-so.
None of it's true, but thereare people that will believe
that and perpetuate that andthere are people who will read

(01:02:43):
that and perpetuate it.
So you know we talk about sortof the water cooler chatter.
You know that we used to havepre phones and scrolling and et
cetera, although there is alittle bit of that for people
who work in an office together,I suppose.

Bob Ward (01:02:56):
Yeah.

Anngelle Wood (01:02:57):
They perpetuate the stuff.
Well, I heard it's not reallyunlike politics, Bob, but I
heard and oh, someone said so.
They take that as fact andunfortunately, I've seen that
with so many of these cases, somany of these cases, these
families have to see thisinformation that people are
saying about their loved onesand they're just victimized over

(01:03:20):
and over and over again.
So I always am careful to saythis to people.
I don't sit on this perch ofsanctimony and say you're all
doing things wrong.
I watched Netflix, the serialkiller documentaries, I got the
books.
I get it.
I get it.
However, this is real life andthere were real families behind
these things that you're.

(01:03:41):
You're trying to createconnections where they don't
exist and it's really harmfulfor people.

Bob Ward (01:03:48):
And a couple of weeks ago, when the story first
started gaining momentum,somebody wrote into, I think,
the Facebook group, the NewEngland serial killer Facebook
group.
Somebody wrote into, I think,the Facebook group, the New
England Serial Killer Facebookgroup.
You know a post that soundedlike they were confessing to the
murders and they buried bodies.
I think it was in Rhode Islandand people had to decipher what

(01:04:12):
the writer was saying by takingthe initials of the first letter
of each paragraph and stitchingit together.
And you know that all got sentout to the police in
Narragansett, rhode Island.
They took time to go look intoit.
They had cadaver dogs out there.
There was nothing there.
And then that person who wrotethe post said well, that was
satire, I didn't mean that to beanything more than what it was.
See, and this is how it canjust avalanche down inside of a

(01:04:34):
hill.
And that's the downside of this, in addition to people also
saying I think here's adescription and I think it looks
like that guy that lives overthere.
Oh, and here's his name.
Oh, we should go to his workand people, we need to take
action.
It can turn into mob justice ifit's unchecked.

Anngelle Wood (01:04:55):
People are being doxxed on the internet their
personal information and theirphotos and their children, and
it becomes so much more thanjust a conversation about
curiosities about crime cases.

Bob Ward (01:05:10):
Yeah, and that's why I caution people.
It's good to look into it, it'sgood to be interested, but
there should be a limit to itand don't get married to your
position because you could bewrong and chances are you are
wrong.
Look, I do this, I get paid forthis, I do this as my job.
I can't tell you how many timesthat what I personally felt did
not put on television or out inthe media anywhere but what I

(01:05:32):
thought turned out to becompletely wrong.
You know the difference is Ididn't voice that.
You know I might inform me as Itry to figure out.
What am I going to do for astory?
Am I going to go aftersomething?
But I never.
It never rose to the level ofsomebody being falsely accused,
somebody being outed, and thatnever happened.

(01:05:54):
But I've just learned that youhave to understand that we don't
have access to the files.
Nobody does so what we can seeon these cases is relatively
superficial to other things andI've had that happen time and
time again where I'll go andtalk to an investigator and I've
got I'm lucky in that I havequite a few of them who feel
comfortable talking to me knowthat I'm not going to turn

(01:06:16):
around and put everything outthere, because they're telling
me things to help understand whysuch a case is moving in the
direction that it is movingwhere they're coming from.
And it's just really for context, and I can't tell you how many
times I've been blown away byyou know some information that
they might have that I neverheard before because it wasn't

(01:06:37):
revealed, because they're tryingto investigate a case.
All of that needs to beremembered, that what we see is
just a very small percentage ofwhat actually is out there and
what might be contained in afile.
Now, sometimes, if you talk tothe same people the police are
talking to, you will find outthat information.
That can definitely happen Alot of times.
You know what a source tells apolice officer or detective

(01:07:01):
we're not going to know unlessthat case ever goes to trial.
Sometimes it's best to step outof the way and let the police
do their job.

Anngelle Wood (01:07:08):
Yeah, because our intentions could be really good
, but we could really step in it.

Bob Ward (01:07:12):
Yeah, there's no doubt .
Yeah, exactly, you don't meanto step in it, but all of a
sudden you find yourself kneedeep in it and that's not a
great place to be.
So I'm a Gemini, so I'm alwayslike this side and that side.
So in this particular thingwith the serial killer, I'm in
the middle, probably overtowards the side.

(01:07:33):
I'm definitely skeptical.
I think skepticism is a goodtrait to have.
When you're looking atinformation that's unchecked and
unverified on the internet, youhave to be skeptical, but you
have to keep an open mind.
So I do respect that people areinterested in this.
I do understand why people areso interested in this.
I just hope they take theirinterest and their enthusiasm

(01:07:55):
and keep it in check forthemselves and just remember
that, as you say, these are realcases with real people and real
families, and the people sayingall this on a keyboard, on a
computer they're not the onesthat are going to have to go up
to a family and knock on theirdoor and say can I talk to you
about your case Because I thinksomething else is going on.
That's a very difficultconversation to have, and be

(01:08:16):
standing face to face with afamily member is not an easy
thing to do.

Anngelle Wood (01:08:20):
If more people had to see family members face
to face, I promise you theywould not see the things that
they say about families on theair.

Bob Ward (01:08:26):
Yes, yes, I know there's some horrific things
that are being said aboutvarious families in the news
right now, and I think it'shorrible, absolutely horrible.
Yes, it's the age that we're in.
You know, I do believe in thependulum swinging back and forth
in society, so maybe it'sswinging hard over to this side.
Maybe it'll start coming backthe other way.
I hope so.

Anngelle Wood (01:08:44):
Well, I really enjoy talking with you about
these things and maybe we cantouch base and have an update in
a bit.
Yeah absolutely.
Thank you so much.

Bob Ward (01:08:55):
You got it, Anngelle, thank you.

Anngelle Wood (01:08:56):
Talk to you later have a great night.

Bob Ward (01:08:57):
You too.

Anngelle Wood (01:09:02):
Thank you, Bob Ward.
I'm a big fan of his work.
He really does try to advocatefor families in these situations
.
We covered a great deal there,A lot of cases we spoke of, Some
with varying degrees offamiliarity with listeners.
I understand that I'll postmore of that information in the

(01:09:24):
show notes atcrimeofthetruestkindcom so you
can get a better handle of thosecases that you're unfamiliar
with.
Cool, and you heard me mentionthat this coming Monday, May
12th, the person who has beenarrested for the murder of
Charlene Rosemond will bearraigned in Middlesex County
Superior Court 10 am.

(01:09:44):
I plan to be there.
Let's show up for her 16 years.
Her family has been waiting forthis.
Thank you to the show supporters.
To the show supporters you helpfund my trips to AdvocacyCon
and victim advocacy training,and the True Crime Podcast

(01:10:07):
Festival is coming up in July.
I'm reminded I need to buy myticket because I haven't yet
Support the show.
Become a patron four tiersstarting at just one dollar.
You can drop a tip in the jar.
You will be giving the dogs abone.
I have a lot of dogs and theydo need a lot of bones.
Tell people about the show.
Follow it on social media atCrime of the Truest Kind.
Leave a five-star rating andreview.

(01:10:28):
On Apple Podcasts.
I got a new one the other day.
I'm sorry I forgot to read itto you.
I will catch up with you nexttime.
New live show's coming.
There's new merch on thewebsite.
I will let you know when theNew England serial killer piece
airs on Boston 25 News.
I spoke to Bob about that thesame day.

(01:10:48):
We did this interview Very busy.
Thank you for listening.
I gotta go Lock your goddamndoors.
We'll be right back.
We'll see you next time.