March 16, 2023 • 59 mins
An adventurous, self-reliant girl moves to Anchorage to start the next stage of her life. Less than a week later, she's gone. It took years and a brother's betrayal for the killer to receive his due.
Sources:
Klinkhart, G. (2014) Finding Bethany (https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Bethany-Glen-Klinkhart/dp/0985351136/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1FM84542VSFVI&keywords=finding+bethany&qid=1678999306&sprefix=finding+bethany%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-1)
https://www.adn.com/books/article/finding-bethany-details-detectives-quest-solve-horrific-murder/2014/07/20/
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24831943
https://www.alaskastar.com/2017-01-13/former-detective-shares-thoughts-crime-personal-safety
https://www.frontiersman.com/news/lawson-draws-99-years/article_d21b98e0-cace-5983-aeea-f5eea9a06570.html
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
The hour arrives.
Kind of An unusual time of day,but the man is very eager.
He gathers supplies.
Who knows how long he could be.
If it works out right, he couldbe away for a while.
He finished his dressing,looking in the mirror.
He looked good for his age,slicked back hair.
He was happy to be a large man,tall, almost 300 pounds, gut
(00:26):
protruding over his belt, buthis powerful build is what makes
him so successful with theladies.
Marcy (00:34):
Welcome to Crime Raven; true crimes, real life stories
from law enforcement and issuescrime fighters face.
This podcast highlights crimesresearched by retired Detective
Sergeant Mark Rein, usingpublicly available information,
court records and personalrecollections.
Content may be graphic,disturbing, or violent.
Listener discretion is advised.
(00:56):
Suspects are considered innocentuntil found guilty in a court of
law.
One of the places that you canlisten to Crime Raven is on
Audible.
With an Audible membership, youcan access podcasts, audiobooks,
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To support Crime Raven, Audibleis allowing our listeners to try
it for free for 30 days if youvisit
(01:18):
audibletrial.com/crimeraven.
That's free access for 30 daysat audibletrial.com/crimeraven.
We'll also put the link in theshow notes.
Mark (01:47):
She breezed into his life an unexpected radiant beauty.
The man's breath caught as theyspoke, his chest tight with
excitement he could barelycontain.
She asked him her question.
He caved to her, giving her asweet deal, but that was the
business.
The rest was pleasure.
She tried to leave.
(02:08):
She knew he was a busy man,didn't want to keep him from his
work, but he couldn't help butpulling her back, extending the
conversation.
He was in her thrall, or maybeshe was in his, he was older.
She might be out of his league,but he has to try.
The man poured on the charm andshe said, yes, they have a date.
(02:32):
She would call him later for thedetails.
When she departed, the man knewhe would be worthless for the
rest of the day, maybe for theweek.
He felt a little embarrassed athimself.
It wasn't like he hadn't had abeautiful young woman before.
In his life, the man hadexperienced the highest highs
then the lowest lows when itcame to his dalliances.
(02:53):
But with this, it felt likedestiny was calling.
So lucky to have been where hewas when he was.
He'd never experienced thatfeeling before.
It was like cosmic gratitude.
The man was right.
He wandered through his work therest of the day, unable to
concentrate, fantasizing aboutthe date he had made.
He closed his eyes and thoughtabout her lithe, youthful body,
(03:14):
her dark hair, piercing eyes,and the smile.
He melted again, thinking of hersmile.
She was alluring, but it wasn'tjust the beauty.
There was something else abouther.
For one, so young, so small.
Her self-assurance, her poisewas remarkable.
Most young girls were wary,maybe even intimidated around
him.
Not her.
(03:35):
She seemed like a full speedahead, in your face, as
confident as they come kind ofgirl.
A girl like that with qualitiesso rare.
He found her simplyirresistible.
And so with just that briefinitial contact, they have a
date.
He was excited, like he hadn'tbeen in years, maybe decades.
He floated through his dailyroutine with a fresh spring in
(03:56):
his step.
People he worked with knewsomething was up, wondered about
it, but the man kept his secret.
He didn't want to jinx it.
Besides, everybody knew hisrecent breakup had been hard.
He hasn't been himself.
He didn't want his coworkers tothink of him as a crazy, erratic
guy, so he was going to keepeverything under wraps.
Marcy (04:20):
The girl starts her day as most days- full of
appreciation.
This day was particularly good,though.
She was loving her new life, thenew city, the new apartment, the
new job that just fell into herlap.
The world seems brighter, fullof boundless potential.
She is a whistle while you workkind of person.
(04:41):
Having grown up on a homestead,hard work is something to take
pride in, something youembraced.
That might be where thethankfulness came from.
Life had a way of rewarding hardwork beyond the warm glow of
accomplishment.
She knew that hard work had puther where she was today on a
path to college and thenmedical.
(05:03):
The vibrant new city, the newapartment overlooking the ocean
were her tangible rewards.
She secretly always wanted theocean to be part of her life.
Ever since her year crewing on asmall sailboat around the South
Pacific, the land lover, countrygirl had fallen in love with the
sea, and its wonder.
Its adventure.
Just catching sight of it madeher feel fulfilled.
(05:25):
And now a double blessing.
The ocean view apartment camewith a job, not an aspirational
position, just a menial job tohelp make rent.
Nothing more.
The girl stood at the doorway tothe vacant apartment building
next to hers.
Very aware that she was at athreshold.
The trailhead to the rest of herlife.
She was in this new city forcollege and her path would not
(05:47):
end until she could call herselfdoctor.
She wanted to help people.
Nothing was gonna distract herfrom that goal.
Not the job she left behind,certainly not the boyfriend.
She opened the door to thebuilding.
Her new job was to clean inside.
Renovation is scheduled tostart.
Her new boss really seemed tolike her.
(06:09):
She would show them her workethic.
Maybe she could make some realmoney.
The girl set to work with asmile focused not on where she
was, but on where she inevitablywould be.
The world was her oyster.
The hour arrives.
Kind of An unusual time of day,but the man is very eager.
(06:29):
He gathers supplies.
Who knows how long he could be.
If it works out right, he couldbe away for a while.
He finished his dressing,looking in the mirror.
He looked good for his age,slicked back hair.
He was happy to be a large man,tall, almost 300 pounds, gut
protruding over his belt, buthis powerful build is what makes
him so successful with theladies.
Mark (06:51):
On the way out the door, he grabs his pistol and throws
the rest of his supplies intothe Mercedes.
He drives north and parks thewhite s u v where he thinks no
one will notice it.
He wants this element ofsurprise.
He watches for a few minutes,but sees no activity.
If his girl is where she'ssupposed to be, she's inside
doing the job he asked her todo.
(07:13):
He walks up and opens the doorwith his master key.
All is quiet as he steps intothe common entry.
The individual apartment doorsare open for easy access.
All the residents having eithertransferred to one of their
other properties or evicted inthe anticipation of the
renovation project.
The man still listens for anysound.
After a few seconds of silence,he's rewarded by a scraping,
(07:36):
dragging sound somewhereupstairs and further into the
building.
With directed focus, he can hearsomeone walking, moving around
up there.
He steps quietly in thatdirection.
He finds his girl as expected inan apartment doing the job he
hired her to do.
The scraping sound is a largerubber made trash can.
(07:57):
She drags it across the floor,pile to pile, cleaning the rooms
of debris, and then sweeping.
Marcy (08:05):
The girl was trucking right along.
She secretly hoped that they hada lot of work like this.
She liked the solitude and gaveher time to think and to plan.
She turned seeing the buildingmanager standing at the
threshold of the apartment.
He's leaning against the doorjam, just staring at her.
The girl is so startled, shephysically jerks and cries out
(08:25):
places, a hand over her mouth toobscure the grin that breaks
into her face.
"Oh gosh, you scared me."
Mark (08:31):
The man put on his most charming smile.
He strikes up a conversation.
How does she like the apartment?
How does she like the job?
He doesn't know her so it'snatural for him to fire off
question after question.
He's her boss, so she can't verywell not answer up.
He doesn't even hear most ofwhat she says except for her
mother isn't expected untiltomorrow or is it next week?
(08:52):
Who gives a shit?
All that matters is now.
As the girl prattles on the manthinks about how much he hates
women.
They have only one thing hewants.
That and he wants them to benice about it.
No, he demands, they show him alittle respect.
The man stares at the girl.
She's small.
She looks like easy prey.
That Self-confidence he sensesis a worry in the back of his
(09:15):
head, but in the front of hishead, it makes him angry.
He wants to destroy that abouther.
The man realizes the girl hasstopped talking and is just
looking at him from 10 feetaway.
Her look's expectant.
He shakes back to the presentminute.
A what?
Marcy (09:30):
Oh, I just wanted to know if there's anything else you
wanted me to do.
Mark (09:33):
The man chuckles to himself.
The start of a grin.
The smile flattens and turnsinto a sneer.
Yeah.
I want you to strip.
Marcy (09:42):
She frowns.
Questioning.
Sure she needs, wantsclarification.
What?
Mark (09:48):
Take all your clothes off.
Marcy (09:51):
The girl's face changes.
She now looks at him intensely.
She recognizes him for thepredator that he is.
She shakes her head,"No!"looking from side to side,
scanning for an exit, the man isblocking the only easy way out.
As she moves towards one wall isif she's going to go around him.
(10:14):
The man pulls out a pistol.
Mark (10:16):
You're gonna do as I tell you.
Marcy (10:20):
The girl pauses for an instant, calculating, then tries
to blow past the man.
She's quick, but in the tightquarters, near the door, his
meaty paws grab her, slam herbackwards.
Her head fractures The drywall.
Mark (10:33):
He considers just shooting her, But that would end the fun.
Instead he pistol whips acrossyour head as it comes out of the
wall.
The man throws the stunned girlto the ground and falls on top
of her.
He sets the pistol off the sideabove her head and begins
ripping off her clothes.
The girl's still in shock at thecataclysmic turn of her life
When she struggles, the manbeats the fight out of her.
(10:54):
He takes his rage out on hersmall body as he rapes her.
In the end, she sobs quietly andit fulfills him.
The man couldn't articulate whyhe did what he does next, but it
is her strength that makes himnot trust her.
He would rather she just crawloff and disappear.
He knows her well enough nowthat she won't do that.
(11:17):
While he is still pinning herdown, the man reaches over,
grabs the pistol, pulls itclose, and pushing it up against
her ribs, pulls the trigger.
Marcy (11:40):
On the morning of May 4th, 2003, two calls came into
police Dispatch Center inAnchorage, Alaska.
The first was a building fire.
An unoccupied condominium wasburning in the bootlegger's cove
neighborhood, a desirable areaof the city, right up against
the waters of the cook inlet.
The second call was from amother.
(12:00):
Her 21 year old daughter wasmissing from her newly rented
apartment on M Street.
A paper delivery driver on herroute made the first call.
The fire.
Firefighters got there in timeto save the structure.
The Blaze had gutted thebuilding but hadn't destroyed
it, probably because it wasbeing renovated and wasn't
filled with flammable personalproperty.
(12:23):
The second call, the 21 year oldmissing from her apartment on M
Street was called in by LindaCarrera.
She told the police call takerthat her daughter, Bethany
Carrera, had moved into theapartment just a few days
before.
The family home was over twohours north in Talkeetna where
she had traveled from thatmorning.
(12:44):
They'd had plans to do someshopping together in the city.
What had alarmed the mother wasthat Bethany was a very
responsible person, not the typeto miss a meeting or disappear
without letting people knowwhere she was going.
Also concerning, Linda founditems of Bethany's personal
property still in the apartmentthat Bethany would've taken with
(13:05):
her if she were gonna be gonefor a significant time.
It didn't take long for someoneat a p d dispatch to realize
that the fire and the M Streetmissing call were one building
apart.
The dispatch supervisor calledthe homicide supervisor,
Sergeant Scott Jesson anddiscussed the incidents with
him.
(13:25):
At the Anchorage PoliceDepartment they tracked missing
person reports in the homicideunit.
Most reports do not get animmediate call out.
Linda Carre's effect on the calltaker had been significant.
It didn't sound like the usualmissing person report.
That coupled with the unusualearly morning, building fire
next door was suspicious.
(13:48):
Sergeant Jesson agreed.
He sent Detective GlennKlinghardt to assess the
situation.
What the detective found when hewent to the M Street apartment,
was indeed suspicious.
The fire scene next door wasstill smoldering.
They hadn't completed an arsoninvestigation, but the good news
was they hadn't found a body.
(14:09):
Bethany Carre's mother was stillat the apartment trying to come
up with a game plan to find herdaughter.
From conversations with her anda survey of the property still
in the apartment, it seemed thatBethany had vanished taking
nothing with her.
Bethany Carrero was raised onher family's homestead in
Talkeetna, Alaska.
(14:30):
The little town has a full-timepopulation of about a thousand
and was the longtime home to thedemocratically elected mayor,
stubbs the cat.
The town's airstrip is afavorite departure point to
access Denali and other peaks inremote areas of the national
park.
Growing up in a tight-knitfamily life in the remote town
(14:52):
without indoor plumbing orcentral heat was demanding.
Bethany could take care ofherself.
Even at her young age, bethanyhad already traveled to foreign
countries and sailed around theSouth Pacific on her own.
Recently she'd worked for aregional air carrier from Nome,
Alaska.
She quit that job and moved toAnchorage to go to college and
(15:13):
pursue a career in medicine.
When Bethany arrived inAnchorage, she wasted no time in
finding the M Street apartment.
She impressed the manager thereand they offered her a job
cleaning and maintaining theirbuildings.
The same company owed severalproperties along M Street,
including the one that caughtfire.
(15:34):
When Bethany's missing turnedfrom one day into two, it was
clear something was very wrong.
The entire Carrara family andmany from the Talkeetna
community converged on Anchoragefor a massive overland search.
Many volunteers from out of townpitched tents on grassy patches
in Bootlegger's Cove.
(15:55):
The carras coordinated thesearch and the effort to get the
word out.
The missing person flyerfeaturing Bethany's face became
a fixture at the front ofstores, coffee shops, and
utility poles across the city.
While the searchers covered thebases for a lost person or
accidental death, investigatorsstarted their search on the bet
(16:17):
that Bethany's disappearance wasa criminal act.
The detectives consideredthemselves lucky that the pool
of people Bethany knew inAnchorage was small.
They spent some time lookinginto the usual suspects.
Bethany had a boyfriend who wasa pilot with a regional air
carrier she had just quit.
(16:39):
The boyfriend was significantlyolder and separated from a wife
who, for the usual reasons,didn't like Bethany.
The boyfriend had an alibi.
He was flying his air route whenBethany disappeared.
As for the estranged wife, shelived in a remote location and
there was no evidence linkingher to the disappearance.
(17:00):
Those two people with solidalibis comprised what
investigators would consider theusual suspects.
Since Bethany wasn't havingconflict with any of her family,
nor had she had any recentcontact with them, that left
detectives with twopossibilities.
The small pool of known recentassociates, and worst of all
random suspects.
(17:22):
Detectives could not reach thebuilding manager who hired
Bethany, but found a number fromMichael Lawson, her husband, who
was also an employee of the samereal estate holding company.
Two detectives went to LawsonSouth Anchorage residence and
met with them.
Lawson, a tall, heavyset man inhis fifties, explained that he,
(17:43):
his brother, Bob and his wifeall worked for the same
construction and propertyholding company.
The week prior, lawson's wifesuddenly quit her job, demanded
a divorce, and caught a plane tothe lower 48.
Lawson said the lastconversation he had with Bethany
was over the phone the daybefore she went missing.
(18:03):
She had a problem accessing abuilding because of a mixup with
keys.
Lawson assumed that she'd workedit out because he hadn't heard
anymore from her.
When asked where they were onSaturday, both brothers said
that they were at the house,watching NASCAR races almost all
day.
(18:23):
Lawson only went out once to anearby gas station to buy
smokes.
The officers came away with anuneasy feeling.
The responses seemed rehearsed.
Lawson was too slick and actedtoo familiar.
Younger brother Bob looked toLawson before answering, and
Lawson spoke as if reinforcing astory to Bob.
(18:48):
These things stood out to theinvestigators as unusual.
To them, first contact with theLawson brothers was suspicious
and creepy and in detectivework, feelings like that are
always worthy of follow up.
As the media circus around themissing young woman in
Bootlegger's Cove gatheredsteam, tips began pouring into
(19:10):
the a APD homicide unit.
Most were unhelpful.
Some had to be investigated, butthe early focus turned toward
Lawson at least until they couldexclude him.
Detective Klinkhart made asurprise visit to the
construction site where Lawsonwas working.
Lawson seemed flustered andnervous by the unexpected
contact, but he attempted to becordial and allowed the
(19:32):
detectives to perform a cursorysearch of his vehicle.
The car, a white Mercedes, s uv, was dirty on the outside from
driving around muddyconstruction sites and unkept on
the inside with debristhroughout.
Detectives didn't find anythingbut came away from the meeting
with the same gut feeling ofsuspicion.
(19:55):
That evening, one employee whoworked with Lawson at the
construction site reached out todetectives.
He said that immediatelyfollowing the police visit,
Lawson began acting strangely.
He started talking about hislack of interaction with the
missing girl, almost like he wastrying to convince everyone of
what he was saying.
He also spoke about BethDisparagingly calling her a
(20:18):
bitch.
Lawson had then left theconstruction site and when he
returned a few hours later, hehad had the car cleaned.
According to the informant, thecar had been detailed and was
now spotless inside and out.
A check of Lawson's criminalhistory revealed that he had
spent a year in prison in thelower 48 for raping a young
(20:39):
woman.
In fact, he'd not complied withhis requirement to register as a
convicted sex offender.
Detectives notified Lawson thatthey would arrest him if he
didn't register immediately.
This discovery cemented Lawson'sPlace as the Prime suspect.
The Anchorage Fire DepartmentArson Investigator initially
(21:00):
ruled the fire next door toBethany's apartment as an
electrical problem.
The Bureau of Alcohol, tobaccoand Firearms volunteered to fly
up their arson investigator fora second opinion.
Within the week, the ruling onthe fire was reversed.
It was arson.
The Blaze started with anaccellerant.
(21:23):
While interviewing peopleperipheral to the Lawson
Brothers detectives discoveredtwo other potential rapes.
In the first one, the teenagedaughter of an employee claimed
that Lawson raped her.
When the family confrontedLawson, Bob covered for him
saying the girl was making upher story.
That event happened in the cityof Fairbanks and was never
(21:44):
officially reported.
The second event was an accountfrom a young female bartender at
a place Lawson frequented.
The bartender said that Lawsoninvited her and a friend to go
bowling after her shift.
They agreed, but on the wayLawson said that he needed to
stop by his office.
Once there, the three wentinside.
(22:06):
According to the woman, Lawsonpulled a gun on them and told
both ladies to take off theirclothes.
As they disrobed, anotheremployee came into the business.
Lawson put away the gun andtried to play it off as if he'd
been joking.
The women knew better.
They fled, but did not reportthe incident.
(22:27):
As more and more data andinformation was revealed, the
investigation surrounding Lawsonkicked into high gear.
The cell phone analysis cameback.
It disputed the Lawson brothersaccount of having been home all
day.
In fact, Lawson's phone washitting on a cell tower near
Bethany's apartment around thetime she disappeared.
(22:48):
Lawson called Bob, who wasinitially at their residence in
South Anchorage.
Then Bob's phone also movednorth towards his brothers.
The phones returned to the SouthAnchorage home, and then
traveled north out of the citywhere the signal was lost.
The road they headed north onwas the George Parks Highway,
which ultimately led to the Cityof Fairbanks, some 350 miles
(23:13):
through mostly undevelopedwilderness.
A few hours after the phonesignal disappeared, it picked
back up, headed south, andreturned to the Lawson
residence.
Detective Klinghardt interpretedthe cell data as indicative that
the two Lawsons met up aftersome event on M Street.
He hypothesized they tookBethany from either her
(23:34):
apartment or the adjacentproperty and took her south to
their house.
Then they took the long drivenorth.
Considering the time that thephone signal dropped and the
time they reacquired it, gaveinvestigators an idea of the
furthest possible distancetraveled.
The problem was that if ifdetective Klinkhart's theory of
(23:56):
the crime was correct, Thepotential search area was more
than a hundred miles.
The investigators turned up theheat on the Lawson Brothers.
They executed search warrants onhis car and residence.
They put him under surveillance.
They placed a tracker on hiscar.
The informant who worked at theconstruction company wore a wire
(24:18):
and recorded conversations.
They interviewed all of Lawson'sclose contacts, including his
ex-wife and girlfriends.
After the search warrants,Lawson hired an attorney and
refused to answer questions.
Bob became uncooperativerefusing to budge from the
initial story.
(24:38):
Weeks after Bethany Carre'sdisappearance, investigators
thought they knew what hadhappened to her, but they
couldn't prove it.
What they had was an enormouspile of circumstantial evidence,
no Bethany and nostraightforward way to get over
the impasse.
Weeks, then months went by withno progress.
(25:01):
As the primary investigationlanguished, the detectives plan
to focus on Bob.
During their dealings with him,detectives sensed that if either
of the brothers had aconscience, it was Bob.
It was Bob who cleaned up messesas Lawson went through life like
a bull in a China shop.
People enjoyed dealing with Bobover his hothead older brother.
(25:23):
The Lawsons had a history ofkeeping their business only
marginally afloat.
Detective Klinkhart suspectedthat if they scrutinized their
finances, they might find someleverage.
To accomplish this, he took thecase to federal investigators.
After analyzing the Lawson'sbusiness financials, federal
(25:45):
agents determined that theLawsons had violated various
laws, mostly involving theapplications for business loans.
The brothers were charged underthe US code for fraud.
The arrest was a big showy raidon the Lawson House.
As they impounded Lawson'sMercedes they handcuffed each
brother at gunpoint asdetectives and agents rushed
(26:08):
into the house search warrant inhand.
Lawson was remanded into jailwhile they took Bob to the FBI
office for an interview.
Once there, agents laid out thefinancial case in black and
white.
They clarified that Bob wasfacing significant time in
prison, but there was a way outfor him.
(26:31):
At that point, detectiveKlinkhart began his presentation
of the evidence in BethanyCarreras disappearance.
He told Bob that he knew aboutwhat Lawson had done and that
Bob had been covering for hisbrother for years.
He appealed for Bob to do theright thing.
And told him if he did, hewouldn't be going to prison.
(26:54):
In the end, Bob did do the rightthing.
He confessed that DetectiveSuspicions were correct.
On the Saturday in question hisbrother had called him and asked
for his help at the M Streetproperty.
When Bob arrived there, he foundBethany laying naked on the
floor of one room in the vacantbuilding.
Bethany was dead in a pool ofher own blood.
(27:17):
Lawson had shot her in the sideof the chest.
Bob said they didn't talk muchabout what happened to Bethany.
He was stunned into silence.
He and Lawson wrapped Bethanyinto plastic, placed her in the
back of the Mercedes and drovesouth to their house to drop off
Bob's vehicle.
From there, the brothers drove acouple of hours north on the
(27:39):
parks highway.
Lawson's initial intent was todrive the seven hours north to
dispose of the body inFairbanks, but the further they
drove, the more nervous hebecame.
The body had begun to smell andLawson was afraid the state
troopers might pull them over.
They began to look for a turnoutwhere they could dump the body.
(28:02):
It was May, but there werealready people camping along the
Parks highway.
Finally, they found anunoccupied gravel pit where they
could drive a short distanceaway from the road..
Once they stopped, the brotherscarried Bethany's body into the
woods.
They tried to dig a grave, butthe ground was still frozen just
below the surface.
(28:23):
They threw the body down anembankment and fled back to
Anchorage.
Once home Lawson told Bob to goto the apartment complex and set
fire to it, which Bob did.
During the discussion of times,detective Klinghardt determined
that the fire Bob set could nothave been the blaze that was
discovered burning early onSunday morning.
(28:46):
He surmised that Lawson musthave returned to the building
later and re-lit the fire.
The newspaper delivery driverwho called in the fire
corroborated this.
She said there was a white s u vparked nearby.
The driver, a man appeared to bewatching the building burn.
Bob agreed to show detectivesthe dump site and led them to
(29:08):
the location.
By that time, it was in themiddle of winter.
Several feet of snow covered theground preventing an immediate
search.
While the investigators waitedfor spring thaw, they took steps
to strengthen their case.
Bob agreed to make recordedphone conversations with Lawson,
who was still in prison.
(29:29):
During the recordedconversations, Lawson was cagey.
He didn't wanna talk to hisbrother about the crime.
but also wanted Bob not tocooperate with the police.
Bob said he was having problemsliving with what they had done
and wanted to understand whathad happened.
Lawson told Bob that Bethany hadwalked in on him as he was
(29:50):
cutting up a package of cocaine.
He was holding her at gunpointwhen the gun went off and
accidentally shot her.
Bob asked why the girl wasnaked.
Lawson said he made her strip soshe couldn't run away.
When they were done running thewires against Lawson, detectives
had him saying many suspiciousthings and a few statements
(30:13):
directly showing his culpabilityin murdering Bethany Carrera.
In May, the ground, had clearedat the body dump site.
Detectives, crime scene, andsearch teams converged on the
location.
They searched the area forseveral days.
In the end, they discoveredBethany's skeletal remains
(30:35):
scattered across the forestfloor where animals had dragged
them.
They also recovered manyclothing items and distinct
jewelry known to belong toBethany.
The site turned out to be only40 miles from the Talkeetna
homestead where Bethany grew up.
They notified her family as thesearch was wrapping up.
(30:59):
Family members responded to thelocation to talk to people who
recovered their daughter and tothank them.
With the search complete Lawsonwas charged with the murder of
Bethany Carrera.
As the trial approached, Bobfelt increasingly guilty for
assisting in the investigation.
(31:20):
One day, shortly before he wasto testify, he parked his car in
the garage at his home, closedthe garage door, and left the
engine running.
Bob left a note saying hecouldn't bear to testify against
his brother.
Bob's suicide left a hole in theprosecution case.
Without his testimony, the judgewould exclude from consideration
(31:42):
much of the firsthand account ofthe events.
Luckily, statements on the wirewere allowed in.
At trial, the prosecutionpresented as much as it could of
the theory that Lawsonintentionally attacked and
murdered Bethany Carrera.
The defense tactic was to admitthat Lawson had shot Bethany,
(32:04):
but to say it was a completeaccident.
They explained the coverup as amisguided attempt to avoid the
consequences.
The jury deliberated for fourdays and convicted Lawson of
second degree murder.
Because of the lack oftestimony, they acquitted him of
(32:24):
arson and kidnapping.
After the main trial, in aseparate hearing, the jury was
asked whether to convict Lawsonof a felon in possession of a
firearm.
They did after learning thefelony conviction was for a
prior rape.
That prior rape had beenexcluded from the main trial.
(32:49):
Anchorage Judge John Sutich hadaccess to all of the information
that was suppressed at trial.
At sentencing, he told Lawsonthat he was undoubtedly guilty
of murder in the first degreeand much more.
The judge said he was determinedto issue a sentence,
commensurate it with the truenature of his crime, and gave
(33:11):
Lawson 99 years.
Mark, why did you pick this caseto do an episode?
Mark (33:31):
This is a landmark case in my career.
I wasn't the case officer, but Ihelped in certain parts and it
was the first major case thatoccurred after I went to the a
detective.
The case had a huge impact onAnchorage.
There's a lot of interest in itin the media.
It caught public attention.
I've talked about the case ofSophie Sergi, a young woman who
is murdered at the University ofAlaskan in Fairbanks.
(33:54):
And her case was similar ineffect for that city.
Almost a cautionary tale.
What can happen to girls andyoung women in a state where
people like to think ofthemselves as having an
old-fashioned sensibility,people helping people and being
neighborly.
These cases, if they don'tshatter that fallacy, they
certainly damage it
Marcy (34:16):
and it should be damaged.
The fact that alaska has dismalstatistics on victimization of
women, and there are a lot ofstories like Bethany's.
Another one that comes to mind,when we moved to Anchorage, the
city was covered with billboardsthat said, who killed Bonnie?
Asking for information about therape and murder of Bonnie Craig.
(34:36):
Bonnie was a college freshmanwho disappeared while she was
walking to class one morning andwas later recovered in the water
of McKee Creek, which is a parksouth of Anchorage.
Mark (34:46):
Yeah.
Mentioning Bonnie Craig bringsback a lot of memories.
I wanted to cover this crimebecause that had an impact on
the city.
It also had an impact on thepath of my career.
I was the, of the samegeneration of cop as the lead
homicide detective here, GlenKlink Cartt.
His experience with the case andsome of the things that happened
afterwards influenced where Ichose to go in the department
(35:09):
and what I did.
While I'm on the topic of GlenKlinkhart he wrote a book about
this investigation.
The book is called findingBethany.
While the case was going on, Iwas generally aware of what was
happen.
As it was in progress.
But reading Klink' book anaccount of what happened,
brought back a lot of memoriesand filled in some of the blanks
I was missing.
It's a good book an authenticcount of a homicide
(35:30):
investigation.
He also talks candidly about thetoll the job can take on
investigators.
So if you're interested in thatkind of thing, I'd recommend the
book.
Marcy (35:39):
We'll put a link to it in the show notes as well.
Bethany was only in Anchoragefor four days before this
happened to her.
Mark (35:49):
Yeah there's an urban rural split in Alaska which I
guess is true of a lot of statesthat have remote areas.
People in the rural areascommonly refer to the city as
Los Anchorage.
The implication there is thatthe city is dangerous, violent
crime is rampant.
Gang members lurk on everystreet corner waiting to kill
you or steal your car.
The city dwellers commonly thinkthe opposite.
(36:10):
They're certain that in ruralAlaska death is waiting behind
every tree.
The cold can kill you.
The animals can kill you.
And if those don't, somebackwards anti-social weirdo is
waiting to kidnap you and takeyou to a shack in the wilderness
and to do God knows what.
The thing about Bethany's case,as it spoke directly to the
stereotype, it was shameful thata young woman from Talkeetna
(36:32):
only lasted four days beforesome big city animal destroyed
her.
The rural town bar barely atown.
Talkeetna.
Those people, her community camedown en massed to search the
city for her.
Marcy (36:53):
I wanna take just a little moment to talk about
Talkeetna, cuz it's a reallyneat, very small community.
It's the taking off point forthose that climbed Denali.
It's on the road system, which alot of Alaska's not, but it
remains a tight community feelwhich can be unusual.
And for more than 20 years,Talkeetna's mayor to Stubbs the
(37:16):
cat who held office in a perchon the counter of a general
store.
And when he passed away theyelected a new cat mayor of
Talkeetn had called Denali.
Talkeetna was even theinspiration for the nineties TV
series, Northern Exposure, ifyou ever watched that one.
Mark (37:32):
A lot of the, a lot of the people live there close to the
land hunting and fishingsubsistence lifestyle for a lot
of them.
Any supplies require a longhaul.
You have to go down to town,probably, two or more hours.
Winters are harsh, snow is deep.
It's, they have brutal cold andwind up there.
Her family built their housefrom the ground up using local
resources.
(37:53):
And, in a place like that, whatcan't be resourced locally has
to be shipped for a long way,barged or flown up to the port
of Anchorage and driven up theParks highway up to the whatever
road you have on the up to theHomestead House site.
In a community, in a situationlike this, you have to rely on
your family and your communityto survive.
Marcy (38:14):
That's why so many of them came to Anchorage to search
for her.
A lot of them knew the familyand they were searching for a
member of their community.
Mark (38:24):
I gotta look at search headquarters while it was going
on.
I was a fairly new detectiveworking in burglary.
I didn't get pulled into thiscase until days or weeks after
it started.
What I remember is I had to godowntown to the courthouse and
like the lieutenant said, Hey,you're going outta the
courthouse.
Take this over to atf to thefire scene.
Some piece of equipment orsomething I had to take down
(38:44):
there.
And the M Street location, mostof downtown Anchorage is up on a
bluff above the ocean, and MStreet is down the slope.
So as I came over and lookeddown and there's just a huge
search area there.
I met with a female ATF agentwho showed me around next door.
I'm looking down the street.
Some of the search team guyswere down there.
They're camping out, there'scampers everywhere, and it just
(39:06):
it made an impression on mebecause I was surprised at how
big the search was.
I knew about the investigation,but honestly, going down there
and seeing how integrated thesearch was and all the parts and
stuff really got me in tune thatit was a big case for the
department, but I hadn't beeninvolved in it yet.
And years later, when I had theopportunity to integrate the
civilian search team as part ofmy investigative support
(39:27):
operations in my unit I jumpedto the chance because I saw the
value in that, of their abilityto search.
When I went down there andlooked looked at the scene for
the Bethany Carrera case,
Marcy (39:39):
You and I talked about how fortunate it was that
Bethany's mother caught theattention of the call taker when
she called to report Bethanymissing.
You wanna talk about why thatis?
Mark (39:51):
Yeah, we've talked about this from past cases.
Like Mindy Schloss people,particularly adults who are
reported missing regularly mostof the time they show up fine.
The difference between takingthe information over the phone
and just waiting to see if aperson shows up often depends on
the judgment of the person whotook the call.
I'm not disparaging dispatchersat all.
Sometimes a reporter canunderplay the seriousness of a
(40:13):
situation or, maybe it doesn'tseem like that big a deal over
the phone.
In Bethany's case, the motherwas really worried, the call
taker thought the situationneeded follow up a S A P.
this was passed on to asupervisor who sent out a
detective to take a look.
The detective immediately sensedthis case was different than
your usual adult going missing,on the weekend, people go out
(40:35):
and party, go missing for acouple days.
That's not that unusual.
And for a case that turned outto be worst case scenario, this
was as good as we could havedone in terms of response.
Marcy (40:47):
I actually remember when I was in the dispatch academy,
they spent a quite a lot of timetalking about listening to your
gut and recognizing your gut.
And I think that was a truebenefit here, that the call
taker listened to her gut andrecognized that something needed
follow up.
And then Detective Linhart alsorecognized something just wasn't
(41:07):
right, even before he could puthis finger on what it was.
People listening to their gut inthis situation all along the way
really led to solving this.
Mark (41:17):
Like I said, best case scenario.
And we didn't always have that.
There are cases in my careerwhere we didn't have that kind,
the kind of response that shouldhave happened right away.
But like I said, there's a lotof cases that you just, they
just don't seem they don't standout in terms of suspicious, at
least not immediately.
Marcy (41:37):
Okay.
Let's talk about the a f D fireinvestigation.
Mark (41:42):
Yeah.
I worked regularly with membersof Anchorage fire department my
entire career.
And despite good natured rivalrybetween the two departments, I
think there's a lot of mutualrespect and I certainly have
very good memories of workingwith the medics and
firefighters.
That being said it doesn't meanthat performance doesn't fall
short from time to time.
The initial ruling here that thefire in the apartment building
(42:04):
on M Street that it wasn't arsonwas an embarrassment for their
department.
Here's a fire that was started,but with accelerant twice it was
white gas and the can was foundin the apartment building later.
When ATF came in and took over,they brought up a guy who was a
nationwide recognizedspecialist, and they immediately
said, yeah, this is arson.
They had the equipment.
(42:25):
When I went to meet with the atfrepresentative, the lady showed
me this brand spanking new at TFvehicle they were very proud of.
And actually that's part of thereason why they were excited to
be part of this case, is becausethey wanted to use their new
toys.
Which is, ironically myexperience with almost every
federal agency.
The feds were more than happy totake their toys out for us.
When ATF came in and basicallythey had chemical testing and
(42:48):
stuff, we're immediately able toshow with no problem that there
was a accelerant used in a firein arson.
Marcy (42:54):
But how did the ATF actually get initially involved
in this?
Mark (42:59):
The main problem is I don't think there was a lot of
confidence in the initialruling.
Most cops don't believe incoincidence.
You have two buildings rightnext door to one another.
It's a quiet.
Weekend morning.
A pretty young woman who livesalone in a building next door
disappears, and right next doorthere's a fire, an unexplained
fire.
(43:19):
Both buildings have the sameowner, it stinks.
It's highly suspicious.
So there needed to be an asecond opinion.
It just happened that ATF wasthere and volunteered.
I wanna mention the AnchoragesFire Department has since made
changes to their investigationunit.
They brought additional peopleand made some improvements in
expertise.
(43:39):
One investigator they hiredstarted out as a police officer
with my department and movedover there as the arson
investigator.
Marcy (43:47):
what was the purpose of the fire if it wasn't to dispose
of the body?
Mark (43:53):
Lawson had a prior rape conviction.
He knew, and probably from hisown case, and definitely from
the cases of the other cons hewas spending time with, that
forensics was nailing people.
There was a lot of focus at thattime on new processing
techniques.
DNA was becoming increasinglyreliable.
One of the most populartelevision shows on TV at the
(44:13):
time was csi.
And that although that showedexaggerates the abilities in
forensic science, a lot ofcrooks were becoming at that
time hyper-vigilant of what theywere leaving behind at crime
scenes.
The fire of the scene was forone simple reason to destroy
trace evidence.
Bethany had bled there.
There were probably other bodyfluids, hairs, fibers that could
(44:34):
have been recovered if theyhadn't been destroyed by the
fire.
Marcy (44:38):
So was the fire an effective tactic?
Mark (44:41):
Yes and no.
It did destroy trace evidence,but it also did something that
was very bad for the Lawsons.
It pinpointed the scene of thecrime.
It's funny when I think aboutthe fire in this case, I'm
reminded of what happened withMartin in one of our early
episodes.
He set fire to the murder scenein our murder on Main Street
episode.
I'm convinced that he didn't tryto set the fire again in the
(45:04):
evening because he wasn'tsuccessful in burning down the
house the first time, and hedidn't wanna draw attention in
the evening.
Since in the evening he hadkilled two more people.
He opted to move those bodiesaway from the murder scene to
distract away from the scene.
in this case, the second firethat Lawson lit was successful
at destroying evidence.
Yes.
But it also punctuated theseriousness of the missing
(45:25):
person case.
From next door.
I will say that had he not litthat fire I think that there
would've been indication of thescene of exactly what happened.
This was a sexual assault.
I don't think there's any doubtabout that.
There's a reason he did it.
When he did it, where he did it.
He knew she would be therealone.
But a lot of evidence of thathad been destroyed when he set
(45:45):
the fire.
So when he was convicted ofmurder two.
Just like the judge said,looking at all the evidence, he
was guilty of the wholeenchilada, murder, one, rape,
kidnapping, everything.
The fire kept him from being,from that being clearer.
Marcy (46:02):
It didn't take long for the focus of the investigation
to turn to Lawson, though.
Mark (46:08):
There just weren't many likely suspects.
The ones that were there werefar away, ex-boyfriend off
flying somewhere, accountable.
The his wife, who's a potentialsuspect is also very far away.
You're really shoestring it totry and find a suspect.
And the worst of all is just aguy who bumbled by and did it,
right?
Maybe a burglar.
So an unknown, a completeunknown.
(46:29):
And that's worst case scenarioif you're trying to investigate
this crime.
Once it was known that Lawsonwas a sex offender who had
committed unreported sexassaults in Alaska.
He's the predator in the water.
He's the one you have to focuson until you can absolutely rule
him out or put him behind bars.
Marcy (46:49):
One of the things that profilers often talk about is
that sometimes these cycles ofviolence are spurred on by
events in killer's, personallives, and Lawson's wife had
just dropped everything,including him and run away from
him outta state.
Do you think that influenced hisattack on Bethany?.
Mark (47:10):
Yeah, I think that's a stressor that may have
contributed to him wanting toattack her.
I don't think we really knowwhat caused the wife from just
dropping everything and leaving.
She was apparently so scared shedidn't wanna say anything about
him.
Marcy (47:23):
You mentioned that you were pulled in to help on this
case a little bit later in thecase.
Mark (47:29):
In big cases where people are needed Manpower Available
detectives are poached fromother units.
I think my partner got pulled inearlier.
Maybe I had court going orsomething a case that I couldn't
break away from.
But my first involvement wasmobile surveillance.
And mobile surveillance is manintensive.
And that's before we put thebird dog on.
(47:51):
We were following him andwatching his car.
In some of my later units, viceunit and drugs I did following
and mobile surveillance all thetime.
But this case was really myfirst experience with that.
Marcy (48:03):
Wait, what's Bird Dog?
Mark (48:04):
It's a mobile tracker that you attach to a car.
The authority for that is underby sealed search warrant.
Marcy (48:10):
How did the surveillance go?
Mark (48:12):
It went okay for a while.
A lot of guys like me at thetime were inexperienced, so
after a few days, Lawson knew hewas being followed.
He started doing what we callheat checks.
Speed through alleys, turningdown dead ends and waiting for
people to.
Try and see where he is going.
Once he saw, he started likewaving at people, flipping
people off once he spotted acouple cops, he was really
(48:34):
paranoid.
So everyone, even remotely coplooking, got the one finger
salute as he was driving around.
I got it.
I think that it was hediscovered the tale sometime on
my weekend, and I came back formy weekend and he saw me sitting
on the side of a road.
I wasn't directly following,they call it a dance with
vehicles that follow him.
I see him and he's flipping meoff and I don't even think he
(48:56):
knows I'm a cop.
He knows what he's done, he'sknows he is murdered a girl.
And this guy's driving aroundangry, trying to flip cops off.
That's who he was.
But after the bird dog went on,he's followed less.
But the case officers wanted tokeep the pressure on him.
That's what the thinking was.
So we did intermittent followingand some of that was obvious so
(49:17):
he always thought he was beingfollowed.
Marcy (49:19):
Brother bob seems pretty pitiful.
Was he really just always hisbrother's cleanup guy or do you
think he actually had a role inthe attack on Bethany?
Mark (49:28):
No, it's pretty clear from the phone evidence that Lawson
called Bob at their home andtheir house was like 20 minutes
south.
Bob was Michael's fixer.
He was a reasonable personableguy and he covered for Michael's
rape when he raped a teenager inFairbanks convincing the parents
that their daughter was lying,which is horrible.
But That's what Bob was about.
Bob was about covering for hisbig brother.
Marcy (49:49):
Talk about the rapes that were never reported to police.
Mark (49:53):
That's one of the most extraordinary things I thought
about in this.
I didn't know all the details ofthis investigation.
Reading the book really fleshedout some things, it's
extraordinary.
there's three victims there thatwent unreported.
When I was a supervisor of theSexual Assault unit I read every
report that we got that was evenremotely sex related, hundreds
of them.
(50:13):
And I remember at the timethinking about the estimates of
only maybe a quarter of allrapes and sexual attempts are
reported.
So you know, the teenager inFairbanks.
the two ladies, Lawson, held ita gunpoint and told the strip
that that was an attempted rape.
These are emblematic of what, wenever hear about the, that
missing, that unknown number.
(50:36):
And there they are in thisinvestigation.
They start the investigation andboom, we encounter people that
have had this guy do somethingto them.
Marcy (50:44):
You told me that the bartender's account of the rape
attempt was how you decided toapproach writing the crime
against Bethany in thenarrative.
Mark (50:53):
Yeah, I think that's how it went down.
If you think about thebartender's accounts, basically
he had them alone.
And what did he do?
He whipped out his pistol andtold him the strip.
So that's how I wrote it.
I think he had a fantasy, and hetried it once, it didn't work
and.
He tried it again.
He knew that nobody was it's hisbuilding, right?
Nobody's gonna walk in on himthis time.
And I don't think that Bethanyreacted the way he expected.
(51:15):
One of the things that Bob saidwas that Michael was open about
his hatred for women.
He talked about them in thecrudes terms.
This is, was backed up by theinformant who stepped forward
from the business.
Who was suspicious of Michaelbecause of the way he was
talking about her, hisderogatory language.
I think that Bethany didn'tcower.
think she wasn't sub submissiveenough for him.
(51:36):
Didn't live up to what he hadfantasized it would be like.
And that made him angrier andthat's why he killed her.
And this also conclusion in hisbook that that detective
Klinkhart came to when he lookedat all the evidence.
Marcy (51:50):
You've talked about how much you respected detective
Klinkhart's end plan in thiscase?
Mark (51:56):
One day several weeks after I was doing the
surveillance on Lawson I wassitting at my desk and Detective
Klinkhart comes into our office.
The homicide unit's, a differentroom across the hall a little
bit.
And sometimes in the detectiveswhen you need a break, you get
up and walk around.
You might go into one of theother units.
There are lots of differentunits, but actually now they
(52:18):
mention it.
There are two units that wereexceptions that nobody ever went
into on the walkabout just tosee what was going on.
The first unit nobody walkedaround was in financial crimes.
And you can probably guess whyno one wanted to go in there to
shoot the shit.
The second was cyber crimesbecause you didn't wanna see
what they were looking at andyou definitely didn't want to
hear the details of what theywere looking at.
(52:40):
Back to clink.
Walking in I'm at my desk.
and he plunks down across fromme, and I asked him how the case
was going.
And you're almost afraid to ask.
I knew there hadn't been anymajor changes.
Nobody had been charged.
And that after the time lapsed,that wasn't good.
He told me that theinvestigation was almost at the
end of the road.
Everybody knew Bethany was dead.
(53:03):
Everybody knew who had killedher, but there was just no way
to close the case, withoutgetting a cooperative, without
getting the information just toput it over the top.
And he told me he'd come up witha plan that relied on Bob Lawson
having a conscience and a littlebit of a spine.
Marcy (53:19):
That's what I went over in the investigation part,
arresting both of those brotherson criminal discrepancies in the
financial disclosures on theirloan applications.
Right?
Mark (53:28):
Yeah.
And that's basically whatKlinkhart laid out for me.
And I think, know, he came overto just hash it out with
somebody who hadn't beeninvolved in the planning and see
what I thought.
At the time, honestly, the ideaof Bob Lawson, having a
conscience and coming forwardseemed like a long shot.
He'd protected his brother.
We all knew that.
And in talking to him, Iremember having being worried
about the effect the case washaving on Clink and how if he
(53:50):
didn't close this casepositively that was gonna have a
heck of an effect on him.
My history with Clink car washe's the detective that took the
Susan Bailey murder to trialthat I detailed in an earlier
episode.
That was a case I wasemotionally invested in because
it had languished for a coupleof years, he picked it up and I
could see he cared about it asmuch as I did.
The Bethany case was a big casefor the city, and I knew Glenn
(54:12):
had become close to the family,and that increases the emotional
weight for him with this case.
Marcy (54:22):
But his plan worked.
Bob talked.
Mark (54:25):
Yes.
And what a relief that was foreveryone.
Marcy (54:29):
Bob showed them where they dumped the body, but it
couldn't be recovered untilspring.
That must have been excruciatingfor the family.
Mark (54:40):
Yeah.
That was the part that I didn'tknow until I recently read the
book.
I knew they knew where she was.
But I didn't know that Glentrusted the family.
He told them that Bethany wasdead but he swore them to
secrecy about it.
He couldn't tell them where shewas or the details of her death.
he asked them to trust him andhe told them that the case may
(55:00):
depend on them, keeping it asecret.
The wire, finding the body.
All that came after the familyknew Bethany was dead.
And they kept that secretbecause they trusted him and he
trusted them.
And what a burden that must havebeen.
Marcy (55:17):
Bob killed himself and a whole bunch of the evidence was
excluded because he wasn't thereto testify to it.
Mark (55:24):
Basically all of his observations at the scene he
wasn't there to test, to testifyabout them, so they weren't
admitted.
Marcy (55:30):
At some level, the jury saw passed the bullshit and
convicted him at least of murdertwo, instead of totally buying
his, I accidentally killed her.
And I have no idea how ithappened.
Mark (55:41):
After the main trial, the jurors were appalled to learn
about Lawson's past, they tookno time in convicting him of
felon in possession.
The reason for the fell inpossession charge after, because
if they had admitted it beforethe jurors would've, it would've
been prejudicial.
The jurors would've known he hada prior felony arrest.
Marcy (55:59):
I can't believe they're not allowed to know he had a
prior similar conviction.
It's just amazing to me thatthey weren't allowed to know
that.
once they did consider the felonand possession charge, they
pretty much were able to come tothe conclusion that probably he
should have gotten the murderone conviction plus this, plus
the rape.
Mark (56:19):
Yeah.
Okay, so things are excludedbecause of the rules of court,
right?
You can't tell because ofsomebody's prior contacts.
Say I had a felony convictionand that doesn't necessarily
mean maybe I had a propertycrime felony, but that doesn't
necessarily mean I did a rapelater.
But that prior felony couldprejudice the jury's judgment on
the current case.
(56:40):
So it's gotta all be evidence inthe current case.
So these rules exclude a wholebunch, and sometimes you come
away with some wacky rulingsthat make prosecution almost
impossible.
I went to trial on a case whereI literally had to draw with a
pencil, a shotgun.
we lost a gun related chargebecause, the jury didn't wanna
(57:01):
rely on we actually recoveredthe shotgun, but because of the
way we recovered it we lost itin evidence.
And here I am drawing a shotgun,and the jury thought it was,
crazy.
So they didn't go with thatcharge.
But anyway, so it's all based onthe rules of court and yeah.
Without the testimony of Bob thesexual assault, her being naked
wasn't backed up there was somereference to it on the tape, but
(57:22):
wasn't backed up.
A lot of those kind of chargeswent by the wayside.
But afterwards, after the trialis over and he's convicted, all
the information is clear to thejudge and the judge saw through
it.
He, the judge knew.
Like everybody, everybodyknowing all the facts here, know
exactly why she was attacked.
He wasn't cutting up cocaineearly in the morning, miles from
(57:42):
his house in a vacant building.
He knew where she was gonna be.
He attacked her because he knewshe was gonna be there and he
wanted to do something to her.
And everybody knew it once allthe facts are known.
That's exactly what happened.
The trial judge saw throughLawson's bullshit.
He knew what this was about.
Lawson was a monster in thedarkness attracted to Bethany's
(58:03):
light.
The good thing is now he can'thurt any more women.
Marcy (58:12):
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(58:35):
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Check our website atcrimeraven.com crime Raven
(58:59):
hosted by Mark Rein and MarcyRein is written and directed by
mark Rein and edited andproduced by Marcy Rein And it's
a 3 Little Birds, LLCproduction.
The hour arrives.
Kind of An unusual time of day,but the man is very eager.
He gathers supplies.
Who knows how long he could be.
If it works out right, he couldbe away for a while.
He finished his dressing,looking in the mirror.
He looked good for his age,slicked back hair.
He was happy to be a large man,tall, almost 300 pounds, gut
(00:26):
protruding over his belt, buthis powerful build is what makes
him so successful with theladies.
Marcy (00:34):
Welcome to Crime Raven; true crimes, real life stories
from law enforcement and issuescrime fighters face.
This podcast highlights crimesresearched by retired Detective
Sergeant Mark Rein, usingpublicly available information,
court records and personalrecollections.
Content may be graphic,disturbing, or violent.
Listener discretion is advised.
(00:56):
Suspects are considered innocentuntil found guilty in a court of
law.
One of the places that you canlisten to Crime Raven is on
Audible.
With an Audible membership, youcan access podcasts, audiobooks,
and original content.
To support Crime Raven, Audibleis allowing our listeners to try
it for free for 30 days if youvisit
(01:18):
audibletrial.com/crimeraven.
That's free access for 30 daysat audibletrial.com/crimeraven.
We'll also put the link in theshow notes.
Mark (01:47):
She breezed into his life an unexpected radiant beauty.
The man's breath caught as theyspoke, his chest tight with
excitement he could barelycontain.
She asked him her question.
He caved to her, giving her asweet deal, but that was the
business.
The rest was pleasure.
She tried to leave.
(02:08):
She knew he was a busy man,didn't want to keep him from his
work, but he couldn't help butpulling her back, extending the
conversation.
He was in her thrall, or maybeshe was in his, he was older.
She might be out of his league,but he has to try.
The man poured on the charm andshe said, yes, they have a date.
(02:32):
She would call him later for thedetails.
When she departed, the man knewhe would be worthless for the
rest of the day, maybe for theweek.
He felt a little embarrassed athimself.
It wasn't like he hadn't had abeautiful young woman before.
In his life, the man hadexperienced the highest highs
then the lowest lows when itcame to his dalliances.
(02:53):
But with this, it felt likedestiny was calling.
So lucky to have been where hewas when he was.
He'd never experienced thatfeeling before.
It was like cosmic gratitude.
The man was right.
He wandered through his work therest of the day, unable to
concentrate, fantasizing aboutthe date he had made.
He closed his eyes and thoughtabout her lithe, youthful body,
(03:14):
her dark hair, piercing eyes,and the smile.
He melted again, thinking of hersmile.
She was alluring, but it wasn'tjust the beauty.
There was something else abouther.
For one, so young, so small.
Her self-assurance, her poisewas remarkable.
Most young girls were wary,maybe even intimidated around
him.
Not her.
(03:35):
She seemed like a full speedahead, in your face, as
confident as they come kind ofgirl.
A girl like that with qualitiesso rare.
He found her simplyirresistible.
And so with just that briefinitial contact, they have a
date.
He was excited, like he hadn'tbeen in years, maybe decades.
He floated through his dailyroutine with a fresh spring in
(03:56):
his step.
People he worked with knewsomething was up, wondered about
it, but the man kept his secret.
He didn't want to jinx it.
Besides, everybody knew hisrecent breakup had been hard.
He hasn't been himself.
He didn't want his coworkers tothink of him as a crazy, erratic
guy, so he was going to keepeverything under wraps.
Marcy (04:20):
The girl starts her day as most days- full of
appreciation.
This day was particularly good,though.
She was loving her new life, thenew city, the new apartment, the
new job that just fell into herlap.
The world seems brighter, fullof boundless potential.
She is a whistle while you workkind of person.
(04:41):
Having grown up on a homestead,hard work is something to take
pride in, something youembraced.
That might be where thethankfulness came from.
Life had a way of rewarding hardwork beyond the warm glow of
accomplishment.
She knew that hard work had puther where she was today on a
path to college and thenmedical.
(05:03):
The vibrant new city, the newapartment overlooking the ocean
were her tangible rewards.
She secretly always wanted theocean to be part of her life.
Ever since her year crewing on asmall sailboat around the South
Pacific, the land lover, countrygirl had fallen in love with the
sea, and its wonder.
Its adventure.
Just catching sight of it madeher feel fulfilled.
(05:25):
And now a double blessing.
The ocean view apartment camewith a job, not an aspirational
position, just a menial job tohelp make rent.
Nothing more.
The girl stood at the doorway tothe vacant apartment building
next to hers.
Very aware that she was at athreshold.
The trailhead to the rest of herlife.
She was in this new city forcollege and her path would not
(05:47):
end until she could call herselfdoctor.
She wanted to help people.
Nothing was gonna distract herfrom that goal.
Not the job she left behind,certainly not the boyfriend.
She opened the door to thebuilding.
Her new job was to clean inside.
Renovation is scheduled tostart.
Her new boss really seemed tolike her.
(06:09):
She would show them her workethic.
Maybe she could make some realmoney.
The girl set to work with asmile focused not on where she
was, but on where she inevitablywould be.
The world was her oyster.
The hour arrives.
Kind of An unusual time of day,but the man is very eager.
(06:29):
He gathers supplies.
Who knows how long he could be.
If it works out right, he couldbe away for a while.
He finished his dressing,looking in the mirror.
He looked good for his age,slicked back hair.
He was happy to be a large man,tall, almost 300 pounds, gut
protruding over his belt, buthis powerful build is what makes
him so successful with theladies.
Mark (06:51):
On the way out the door, he grabs his pistol and throws
the rest of his supplies intothe Mercedes.
He drives north and parks thewhite s u v where he thinks no
one will notice it.
He wants this element ofsurprise.
He watches for a few minutes,but sees no activity.
If his girl is where she'ssupposed to be, she's inside
doing the job he asked her todo.
(07:13):
He walks up and opens the doorwith his master key.
All is quiet as he steps intothe common entry.
The individual apartment doorsare open for easy access.
All the residents having eithertransferred to one of their
other properties or evicted inthe anticipation of the
renovation project.
The man still listens for anysound.
After a few seconds of silence,he's rewarded by a scraping,
(07:36):
dragging sound somewhereupstairs and further into the
building.
With directed focus, he can hearsomeone walking, moving around
up there.
He steps quietly in thatdirection.
He finds his girl as expected inan apartment doing the job he
hired her to do.
The scraping sound is a largerubber made trash can.
(07:57):
She drags it across the floor,pile to pile, cleaning the rooms
of debris, and then sweeping.
Marcy (08:05):
The girl was trucking right along.
She secretly hoped that they hada lot of work like this.
She liked the solitude and gaveher time to think and to plan.
She turned seeing the buildingmanager standing at the
threshold of the apartment.
He's leaning against the doorjam, just staring at her.
The girl is so startled, shephysically jerks and cries out
(08:25):
places, a hand over her mouth toobscure the grin that breaks
into her face.
"Oh gosh, you scared me."
Mark (08:31):
The man put on his most charming smile.
He strikes up a conversation.
How does she like the apartment?
How does she like the job?
He doesn't know her so it'snatural for him to fire off
question after question.
He's her boss, so she can't verywell not answer up.
He doesn't even hear most ofwhat she says except for her
mother isn't expected untiltomorrow or is it next week?
(08:52):
Who gives a shit?
All that matters is now.
As the girl prattles on the manthinks about how much he hates
women.
They have only one thing hewants.
That and he wants them to benice about it.
No, he demands, they show him alittle respect.
The man stares at the girl.
She's small.
She looks like easy prey.
That Self-confidence he sensesis a worry in the back of his
(09:15):
head, but in the front of hishead, it makes him angry.
He wants to destroy that abouther.
The man realizes the girl hasstopped talking and is just
looking at him from 10 feetaway.
Her look's expectant.
He shakes back to the presentminute.
A what?
Marcy (09:30):
Oh, I just wanted to know if there's anything else you
wanted me to do.
Mark (09:33):
The man chuckles to himself.
The start of a grin.
The smile flattens and turnsinto a sneer.
Yeah.
I want you to strip.
Marcy (09:42):
She frowns.
Questioning.
Sure she needs, wantsclarification.
What?
Mark (09:48):
Take all your clothes off.
Marcy (09:51):
The girl's face changes.
She now looks at him intensely.
She recognizes him for thepredator that he is.
She shakes her head,"No!"looking from side to side,
scanning for an exit, the man isblocking the only easy way out.
As she moves towards one wall isif she's going to go around him.
(10:14):
The man pulls out a pistol.
Mark (10:16):
You're gonna do as I tell you.
Marcy (10:20):
The girl pauses for an instant, calculating, then tries
to blow past the man.
She's quick, but in the tightquarters, near the door, his
meaty paws grab her, slam herbackwards.
Her head fractures The drywall.
Mark (10:33):
He considers just shooting her, But that would end the fun.
Instead he pistol whips acrossyour head as it comes out of the
wall.
The man throws the stunned girlto the ground and falls on top
of her.
He sets the pistol off the sideabove her head and begins
ripping off her clothes.
The girl's still in shock at thecataclysmic turn of her life
When she struggles, the manbeats the fight out of her.
(10:54):
He takes his rage out on hersmall body as he rapes her.
In the end, she sobs quietly andit fulfills him.
The man couldn't articulate whyhe did what he does next, but it
is her strength that makes himnot trust her.
He would rather she just crawloff and disappear.
He knows her well enough nowthat she won't do that.
(11:17):
While he is still pinning herdown, the man reaches over,
grabs the pistol, pulls itclose, and pushing it up against
her ribs, pulls the trigger.
Marcy (11:40):
On the morning of May 4th, 2003, two calls came into
police Dispatch Center inAnchorage, Alaska.
The first was a building fire.
An unoccupied condominium wasburning in the bootlegger's cove
neighborhood, a desirable areaof the city, right up against
the waters of the cook inlet.
The second call was from amother.
(12:00):
Her 21 year old daughter wasmissing from her newly rented
apartment on M Street.
A paper delivery driver on herroute made the first call.
The fire.
Firefighters got there in timeto save the structure.
The Blaze had gutted thebuilding but hadn't destroyed
it, probably because it wasbeing renovated and wasn't
filled with flammable personalproperty.
(12:23):
The second call, the 21 year oldmissing from her apartment on M
Street was called in by LindaCarrera.
She told the police call takerthat her daughter, Bethany
Carrera, had moved into theapartment just a few days
before.
The family home was over twohours north in Talkeetna where
she had traveled from thatmorning.
(12:44):
They'd had plans to do someshopping together in the city.
What had alarmed the mother wasthat Bethany was a very
responsible person, not the typeto miss a meeting or disappear
without letting people knowwhere she was going.
Also concerning, Linda founditems of Bethany's personal
property still in the apartmentthat Bethany would've taken with
(13:05):
her if she were gonna be gonefor a significant time.
It didn't take long for someoneat a p d dispatch to realize
that the fire and the M Streetmissing call were one building
apart.
The dispatch supervisor calledthe homicide supervisor,
Sergeant Scott Jesson anddiscussed the incidents with
him.
(13:25):
At the Anchorage PoliceDepartment they tracked missing
person reports in the homicideunit.
Most reports do not get animmediate call out.
Linda Carre's effect on the calltaker had been significant.
It didn't sound like the usualmissing person report.
That coupled with the unusualearly morning, building fire
next door was suspicious.
(13:48):
Sergeant Jesson agreed.
He sent Detective GlennKlinghardt to assess the
situation.
What the detective found when hewent to the M Street apartment,
was indeed suspicious.
The fire scene next door wasstill smoldering.
They hadn't completed an arsoninvestigation, but the good news
was they hadn't found a body.
(14:09):
Bethany Carre's mother was stillat the apartment trying to come
up with a game plan to find herdaughter.
From conversations with her anda survey of the property still
in the apartment, it seemed thatBethany had vanished taking
nothing with her.
Bethany Carrero was raised onher family's homestead in
Talkeetna, Alaska.
(14:30):
The little town has a full-timepopulation of about a thousand
and was the longtime home to thedemocratically elected mayor,
stubbs the cat.
The town's airstrip is afavorite departure point to
access Denali and other peaks inremote areas of the national
park.
Growing up in a tight-knitfamily life in the remote town
(14:52):
without indoor plumbing orcentral heat was demanding.
Bethany could take care ofherself.
Even at her young age, bethanyhad already traveled to foreign
countries and sailed around theSouth Pacific on her own.
Recently she'd worked for aregional air carrier from Nome,
Alaska.
She quit that job and moved toAnchorage to go to college and
(15:13):
pursue a career in medicine.
When Bethany arrived inAnchorage, she wasted no time in
finding the M Street apartment.
She impressed the manager thereand they offered her a job
cleaning and maintaining theirbuildings.
The same company owed severalproperties along M Street,
including the one that caughtfire.
(15:34):
When Bethany's missing turnedfrom one day into two, it was
clear something was very wrong.
The entire Carrara family andmany from the Talkeetna
community converged on Anchoragefor a massive overland search.
Many volunteers from out of townpitched tents on grassy patches
in Bootlegger's Cove.
(15:55):
The carras coordinated thesearch and the effort to get the
word out.
The missing person flyerfeaturing Bethany's face became
a fixture at the front ofstores, coffee shops, and
utility poles across the city.
While the searchers covered thebases for a lost person or
accidental death, investigatorsstarted their search on the bet
(16:17):
that Bethany's disappearance wasa criminal act.
The detectives consideredthemselves lucky that the pool
of people Bethany knew inAnchorage was small.
They spent some time lookinginto the usual suspects.
Bethany had a boyfriend who wasa pilot with a regional air
carrier she had just quit.
(16:39):
The boyfriend was significantlyolder and separated from a wife
who, for the usual reasons,didn't like Bethany.
The boyfriend had an alibi.
He was flying his air route whenBethany disappeared.
As for the estranged wife, shelived in a remote location and
there was no evidence linkingher to the disappearance.
(17:00):
Those two people with solidalibis comprised what
investigators would consider theusual suspects.
Since Bethany wasn't havingconflict with any of her family,
nor had she had any recentcontact with them, that left
detectives with twopossibilities.
The small pool of known recentassociates, and worst of all
random suspects.
(17:22):
Detectives could not reach thebuilding manager who hired
Bethany, but found a number fromMichael Lawson, her husband, who
was also an employee of the samereal estate holding company.
Two detectives went to LawsonSouth Anchorage residence and
met with them.
Lawson, a tall, heavyset man inhis fifties, explained that he,
(17:43):
his brother, Bob and his wifeall worked for the same
construction and propertyholding company.
The week prior, lawson's wifesuddenly quit her job, demanded
a divorce, and caught a plane tothe lower 48.
Lawson said the lastconversation he had with Bethany
was over the phone the daybefore she went missing.
(18:03):
She had a problem accessing abuilding because of a mixup with
keys.
Lawson assumed that she'd workedit out because he hadn't heard
anymore from her.
When asked where they were onSaturday, both brothers said
that they were at the house,watching NASCAR races almost all
day.
(18:23):
Lawson only went out once to anearby gas station to buy
smokes.
The officers came away with anuneasy feeling.
The responses seemed rehearsed.
Lawson was too slick and actedtoo familiar.
Younger brother Bob looked toLawson before answering, and
Lawson spoke as if reinforcing astory to Bob.
(18:48):
These things stood out to theinvestigators as unusual.
To them, first contact with theLawson brothers was suspicious
and creepy and in detectivework, feelings like that are
always worthy of follow up.
As the media circus around themissing young woman in
Bootlegger's Cove gatheredsteam, tips began pouring into
(19:10):
the a APD homicide unit.
Most were unhelpful.
Some had to be investigated, butthe early focus turned toward
Lawson at least until they couldexclude him.
Detective Klinkhart made asurprise visit to the
construction site where Lawsonwas working.
Lawson seemed flustered andnervous by the unexpected
contact, but he attempted to becordial and allowed the
(19:32):
detectives to perform a cursorysearch of his vehicle.
The car, a white Mercedes, s uv, was dirty on the outside from
driving around muddyconstruction sites and unkept on
the inside with debristhroughout.
Detectives didn't find anythingbut came away from the meeting
with the same gut feeling ofsuspicion.
(19:55):
That evening, one employee whoworked with Lawson at the
construction site reached out todetectives.
He said that immediatelyfollowing the police visit,
Lawson began acting strangely.
He started talking about hislack of interaction with the
missing girl, almost like he wastrying to convince everyone of
what he was saying.
He also spoke about BethDisparagingly calling her a
(20:18):
bitch.
Lawson had then left theconstruction site and when he
returned a few hours later, hehad had the car cleaned.
According to the informant, thecar had been detailed and was
now spotless inside and out.
A check of Lawson's criminalhistory revealed that he had
spent a year in prison in thelower 48 for raping a young
(20:39):
woman.
In fact, he'd not complied withhis requirement to register as a
convicted sex offender.
Detectives notified Lawson thatthey would arrest him if he
didn't register immediately.
This discovery cemented Lawson'sPlace as the Prime suspect.
The Anchorage Fire DepartmentArson Investigator initially
(21:00):
ruled the fire next door toBethany's apartment as an
electrical problem.
The Bureau of Alcohol, tobaccoand Firearms volunteered to fly
up their arson investigator fora second opinion.
Within the week, the ruling onthe fire was reversed.
It was arson.
The Blaze started with anaccellerant.
(21:23):
While interviewing peopleperipheral to the Lawson
Brothers detectives discoveredtwo other potential rapes.
In the first one, the teenagedaughter of an employee claimed
that Lawson raped her.
When the family confrontedLawson, Bob covered for him
saying the girl was making upher story.
That event happened in the cityof Fairbanks and was never
(21:44):
officially reported.
The second event was an accountfrom a young female bartender at
a place Lawson frequented.
The bartender said that Lawsoninvited her and a friend to go
bowling after her shift.
They agreed, but on the wayLawson said that he needed to
stop by his office.
Once there, the three wentinside.
(22:06):
According to the woman, Lawsonpulled a gun on them and told
both ladies to take off theirclothes.
As they disrobed, anotheremployee came into the business.
Lawson put away the gun andtried to play it off as if he'd
been joking.
The women knew better.
They fled, but did not reportthe incident.
(22:27):
As more and more data andinformation was revealed, the
investigation surrounding Lawsonkicked into high gear.
The cell phone analysis cameback.
It disputed the Lawson brothersaccount of having been home all
day.
In fact, Lawson's phone washitting on a cell tower near
Bethany's apartment around thetime she disappeared.
(22:48):
Lawson called Bob, who wasinitially at their residence in
South Anchorage.
Then Bob's phone also movednorth towards his brothers.
The phones returned to the SouthAnchorage home, and then
traveled north out of the citywhere the signal was lost.
The road they headed north onwas the George Parks Highway,
which ultimately led to the Cityof Fairbanks, some 350 miles
(23:13):
through mostly undevelopedwilderness.
A few hours after the phonesignal disappeared, it picked
back up, headed south, andreturned to the Lawson
residence.
Detective Klinghardt interpretedthe cell data as indicative that
the two Lawsons met up aftersome event on M Street.
He hypothesized they tookBethany from either her
(23:34):
apartment or the adjacentproperty and took her south to
their house.
Then they took the long drivenorth.
Considering the time that thephone signal dropped and the
time they reacquired it, gaveinvestigators an idea of the
furthest possible distancetraveled.
The problem was that if ifdetective Klinkhart's theory of
(23:56):
the crime was correct, Thepotential search area was more
than a hundred miles.
The investigators turned up theheat on the Lawson Brothers.
They executed search warrants onhis car and residence.
They put him under surveillance.
They placed a tracker on hiscar.
The informant who worked at theconstruction company wore a wire
(24:18):
and recorded conversations.
They interviewed all of Lawson'sclose contacts, including his
ex-wife and girlfriends.
After the search warrants,Lawson hired an attorney and
refused to answer questions.
Bob became uncooperativerefusing to budge from the
initial story.
(24:38):
Weeks after Bethany Carre'sdisappearance, investigators
thought they knew what hadhappened to her, but they
couldn't prove it.
What they had was an enormouspile of circumstantial evidence,
no Bethany and nostraightforward way to get over
the impasse.
Weeks, then months went by withno progress.
(25:01):
As the primary investigationlanguished, the detectives plan
to focus on Bob.
During their dealings with him,detectives sensed that if either
of the brothers had aconscience, it was Bob.
It was Bob who cleaned up messesas Lawson went through life like
a bull in a China shop.
People enjoyed dealing with Bobover his hothead older brother.
(25:23):
The Lawsons had a history ofkeeping their business only
marginally afloat.
Detective Klinkhart suspectedthat if they scrutinized their
finances, they might find someleverage.
To accomplish this, he took thecase to federal investigators.
After analyzing the Lawson'sbusiness financials, federal
(25:45):
agents determined that theLawsons had violated various
laws, mostly involving theapplications for business loans.
The brothers were charged underthe US code for fraud.
The arrest was a big showy raidon the Lawson House.
As they impounded Lawson'sMercedes they handcuffed each
brother at gunpoint asdetectives and agents rushed
(26:08):
into the house search warrant inhand.
Lawson was remanded into jailwhile they took Bob to the FBI
office for an interview.
Once there, agents laid out thefinancial case in black and
white.
They clarified that Bob wasfacing significant time in
prison, but there was a way outfor him.
(26:31):
At that point, detectiveKlinkhart began his presentation
of the evidence in BethanyCarreras disappearance.
He told Bob that he knew aboutwhat Lawson had done and that
Bob had been covering for hisbrother for years.
He appealed for Bob to do theright thing.
And told him if he did, hewouldn't be going to prison.
(26:54):
In the end, Bob did do the rightthing.
He confessed that DetectiveSuspicions were correct.
On the Saturday in question hisbrother had called him and asked
for his help at the M Streetproperty.
When Bob arrived there, he foundBethany laying naked on the
floor of one room in the vacantbuilding.
Bethany was dead in a pool ofher own blood.
(27:17):
Lawson had shot her in the sideof the chest.
Bob said they didn't talk muchabout what happened to Bethany.
He was stunned into silence.
He and Lawson wrapped Bethanyinto plastic, placed her in the
back of the Mercedes and drovesouth to their house to drop off
Bob's vehicle.
From there, the brothers drove acouple of hours north on the
(27:39):
parks highway.
Lawson's initial intent was todrive the seven hours north to
dispose of the body inFairbanks, but the further they
drove, the more nervous hebecame.
The body had begun to smell andLawson was afraid the state
troopers might pull them over.
They began to look for a turnoutwhere they could dump the body.
(28:02):
It was May, but there werealready people camping along the
Parks highway.
Finally, they found anunoccupied gravel pit where they
could drive a short distanceaway from the road..
Once they stopped, the brotherscarried Bethany's body into the
woods.
They tried to dig a grave, butthe ground was still frozen just
below the surface.
(28:23):
They threw the body down anembankment and fled back to
Anchorage.
Once home Lawson told Bob to goto the apartment complex and set
fire to it, which Bob did.
During the discussion of times,detective Klinghardt determined
that the fire Bob set could nothave been the blaze that was
discovered burning early onSunday morning.
(28:46):
He surmised that Lawson musthave returned to the building
later and re-lit the fire.
The newspaper delivery driverwho called in the fire
corroborated this.
She said there was a white s u vparked nearby.
The driver, a man appeared to bewatching the building burn.
Bob agreed to show detectivesthe dump site and led them to
(29:08):
the location.
By that time, it was in themiddle of winter.
Several feet of snow covered theground preventing an immediate
search.
While the investigators waitedfor spring thaw, they took steps
to strengthen their case.
Bob agreed to make recordedphone conversations with Lawson,
who was still in prison.
(29:29):
During the recordedconversations, Lawson was cagey.
He didn't wanna talk to hisbrother about the crime.
but also wanted Bob not tocooperate with the police.
Bob said he was having problemsliving with what they had done
and wanted to understand whathad happened.
Lawson told Bob that Bethany hadwalked in on him as he was
(29:50):
cutting up a package of cocaine.
He was holding her at gunpointwhen the gun went off and
accidentally shot her.
Bob asked why the girl wasnaked.
Lawson said he made her strip soshe couldn't run away.
When they were done running thewires against Lawson, detectives
had him saying many suspiciousthings and a few statements
(30:13):
directly showing his culpabilityin murdering Bethany Carrera.
In May, the ground, had clearedat the body dump site.
Detectives, crime scene, andsearch teams converged on the
location.
They searched the area forseveral days.
In the end, they discoveredBethany's skeletal remains
(30:35):
scattered across the forestfloor where animals had dragged
them.
They also recovered manyclothing items and distinct
jewelry known to belong toBethany.
The site turned out to be only40 miles from the Talkeetna
homestead where Bethany grew up.
They notified her family as thesearch was wrapping up.
(30:59):
Family members responded to thelocation to talk to people who
recovered their daughter and tothank them.
With the search complete Lawsonwas charged with the murder of
Bethany Carrera.
As the trial approached, Bobfelt increasingly guilty for
assisting in the investigation.
(31:20):
One day, shortly before he wasto testify, he parked his car in
the garage at his home, closedthe garage door, and left the
engine running.
Bob left a note saying hecouldn't bear to testify against
his brother.
Bob's suicide left a hole in theprosecution case.
Without his testimony, the judgewould exclude from consideration
(31:42):
much of the firsthand account ofthe events.
Luckily, statements on the wirewere allowed in.
At trial, the prosecutionpresented as much as it could of
the theory that Lawsonintentionally attacked and
murdered Bethany Carrera.
The defense tactic was to admitthat Lawson had shot Bethany,
(32:04):
but to say it was a completeaccident.
They explained the coverup as amisguided attempt to avoid the
consequences.
The jury deliberated for fourdays and convicted Lawson of
second degree murder.
Because of the lack oftestimony, they acquitted him of
(32:24):
arson and kidnapping.
After the main trial, in aseparate hearing, the jury was
asked whether to convict Lawsonof a felon in possession of a
firearm.
They did after learning thefelony conviction was for a
prior rape.
That prior rape had beenexcluded from the main trial.
(32:49):
Anchorage Judge John Sutich hadaccess to all of the information
that was suppressed at trial.
At sentencing, he told Lawsonthat he was undoubtedly guilty
of murder in the first degreeand much more.
The judge said he was determinedto issue a sentence,
commensurate it with the truenature of his crime, and gave
(33:11):
Lawson 99 years.
Mark, why did you pick this caseto do an episode?
Mark (33:31):
This is a landmark case in my career.
I wasn't the case officer, but Ihelped in certain parts and it
was the first major case thatoccurred after I went to the a
detective.
The case had a huge impact onAnchorage.
There's a lot of interest in itin the media.
It caught public attention.
I've talked about the case ofSophie Sergi, a young woman who
is murdered at the University ofAlaskan in Fairbanks.
(33:54):
And her case was similar ineffect for that city.
Almost a cautionary tale.
What can happen to girls andyoung women in a state where
people like to think ofthemselves as having an
old-fashioned sensibility,people helping people and being
neighborly.
These cases, if they don'tshatter that fallacy, they
certainly damage it
Marcy (34:16):
and it should be damaged.
The fact that alaska has dismalstatistics on victimization of
women, and there are a lot ofstories like Bethany's.
Another one that comes to mind,when we moved to Anchorage, the
city was covered with billboardsthat said, who killed Bonnie?
Asking for information about therape and murder of Bonnie Craig.
(34:36):
Bonnie was a college freshmanwho disappeared while she was
walking to class one morning andwas later recovered in the water
of McKee Creek, which is a parksouth of Anchorage.
Mark (34:46):
Yeah.
Mentioning Bonnie Craig bringsback a lot of memories.
I wanted to cover this crimebecause that had an impact on
the city.
It also had an impact on thepath of my career.
I was the, of the samegeneration of cop as the lead
homicide detective here, GlenKlink Cartt.
His experience with the case andsome of the things that happened
afterwards influenced where Ichose to go in the department
(35:09):
and what I did.
While I'm on the topic of GlenKlinkhart he wrote a book about
this investigation.
The book is called findingBethany.
While the case was going on, Iwas generally aware of what was
happen.
As it was in progress.
But reading Klink' book anaccount of what happened,
brought back a lot of memoriesand filled in some of the blanks
I was missing.
It's a good book an authenticcount of a homicide
(35:30):
investigation.
He also talks candidly about thetoll the job can take on
investigators.
So if you're interested in thatkind of thing, I'd recommend the
book.
Marcy (35:39):
We'll put a link to it in the show notes as well.
Bethany was only in Anchoragefor four days before this
happened to her.
Mark (35:49):
Yeah there's an urban rural split in Alaska which I
guess is true of a lot of statesthat have remote areas.
People in the rural areascommonly refer to the city as
Los Anchorage.
The implication there is thatthe city is dangerous, violent
crime is rampant.
Gang members lurk on everystreet corner waiting to kill
you or steal your car.
The city dwellers commonly thinkthe opposite.
(36:10):
They're certain that in ruralAlaska death is waiting behind
every tree.
The cold can kill you.
The animals can kill you.
And if those don't, somebackwards anti-social weirdo is
waiting to kidnap you and takeyou to a shack in the wilderness
and to do God knows what.
The thing about Bethany's case,as it spoke directly to the
stereotype, it was shameful thata young woman from Talkeetna
(36:32):
only lasted four days beforesome big city animal destroyed
her.
The rural town bar barely atown.
Talkeetna.
Those people, her community camedown en massed to search the
city for her.
Marcy (36:53):
I wanna take just a little moment to talk about
Talkeetna, cuz it's a reallyneat, very small community.
It's the taking off point forthose that climbed Denali.
It's on the road system, which alot of Alaska's not, but it
remains a tight community feelwhich can be unusual.
And for more than 20 years,Talkeetna's mayor to Stubbs the
(37:16):
cat who held office in a perchon the counter of a general
store.
And when he passed away theyelected a new cat mayor of
Talkeetn had called Denali.
Talkeetna was even theinspiration for the nineties TV
series, Northern Exposure, ifyou ever watched that one.
Mark (37:32):
A lot of the, a lot of the people live there close to the
land hunting and fishingsubsistence lifestyle for a lot
of them.
Any supplies require a longhaul.
You have to go down to town,probably, two or more hours.
Winters are harsh, snow is deep.
It's, they have brutal cold andwind up there.
Her family built their housefrom the ground up using local
resources.
(37:53):
And, in a place like that, whatcan't be resourced locally has
to be shipped for a long way,barged or flown up to the port
of Anchorage and driven up theParks highway up to the whatever
road you have on the up to theHomestead House site.
In a community, in a situationlike this, you have to rely on
your family and your communityto survive.
Marcy (38:14):
That's why so many of them came to Anchorage to search
for her.
A lot of them knew the familyand they were searching for a
member of their community.
Mark (38:24):
I gotta look at search headquarters while it was going
on.
I was a fairly new detectiveworking in burglary.
I didn't get pulled into thiscase until days or weeks after
it started.
What I remember is I had to godowntown to the courthouse and
like the lieutenant said, Hey,you're going outta the
courthouse.
Take this over to atf to thefire scene.
Some piece of equipment orsomething I had to take down
(38:44):
there.
And the M Street location, mostof downtown Anchorage is up on a
bluff above the ocean, and MStreet is down the slope.
So as I came over and lookeddown and there's just a huge
search area there.
I met with a female ATF agentwho showed me around next door.
I'm looking down the street.
Some of the search team guyswere down there.
They're camping out, there'scampers everywhere, and it just
(39:06):
it made an impression on mebecause I was surprised at how
big the search was.
I knew about the investigation,but honestly, going down there
and seeing how integrated thesearch was and all the parts and
stuff really got me in tune thatit was a big case for the
department, but I hadn't beeninvolved in it yet.
And years later, when I had theopportunity to integrate the
civilian search team as part ofmy investigative support
(39:27):
operations in my unit I jumpedto the chance because I saw the
value in that, of their abilityto search.
When I went down there andlooked looked at the scene for
the Bethany Carrera case,
Marcy (39:39):
You and I talked about how fortunate it was that
Bethany's mother caught theattention of the call taker when
she called to report Bethanymissing.
You wanna talk about why thatis?
Mark (39:51):
Yeah, we've talked about this from past cases.
Like Mindy Schloss people,particularly adults who are
reported missing regularly mostof the time they show up fine.
The difference between takingthe information over the phone
and just waiting to see if aperson shows up often depends on
the judgment of the person whotook the call.
I'm not disparaging dispatchersat all.
Sometimes a reporter canunderplay the seriousness of a
(40:13):
situation or, maybe it doesn'tseem like that big a deal over
the phone.
In Bethany's case, the motherwas really worried, the call
taker thought the situationneeded follow up a S A P.
this was passed on to asupervisor who sent out a
detective to take a look.
The detective immediately sensedthis case was different than
your usual adult going missing,on the weekend, people go out
(40:35):
and party, go missing for acouple days.
That's not that unusual.
And for a case that turned outto be worst case scenario, this
was as good as we could havedone in terms of response.
Marcy (40:47):
I actually remember when I was in the dispatch academy,
they spent a quite a lot of timetalking about listening to your
gut and recognizing your gut.
And I think that was a truebenefit here, that the call
taker listened to her gut andrecognized that something needed
follow up.
And then Detective Linhart alsorecognized something just wasn't
(41:07):
right, even before he could puthis finger on what it was.
People listening to their gut inthis situation all along the way
really led to solving this.
Mark (41:17):
Like I said, best case scenario.
And we didn't always have that.
There are cases in my careerwhere we didn't have that kind,
the kind of response that shouldhave happened right away.
But like I said, there's a lotof cases that you just, they
just don't seem they don't standout in terms of suspicious, at
least not immediately.
Marcy (41:37):
Okay.
Let's talk about the a f D fireinvestigation.
Mark (41:42):
Yeah.
I worked regularly with membersof Anchorage fire department my
entire career.
And despite good natured rivalrybetween the two departments, I
think there's a lot of mutualrespect and I certainly have
very good memories of workingwith the medics and
firefighters.
That being said it doesn't meanthat performance doesn't fall
short from time to time.
The initial ruling here that thefire in the apartment building
(42:04):
on M Street that it wasn't arsonwas an embarrassment for their
department.
Here's a fire that was started,but with accelerant twice it was
white gas and the can was foundin the apartment building later.
When ATF came in and took over,they brought up a guy who was a
nationwide recognizedspecialist, and they immediately
said, yeah, this is arson.
They had the equipment.
(42:25):
When I went to meet with the atfrepresentative, the lady showed
me this brand spanking new at TFvehicle they were very proud of.
And actually that's part of thereason why they were excited to
be part of this case, is becausethey wanted to use their new
toys.
Which is, ironically myexperience with almost every
federal agency.
The feds were more than happy totake their toys out for us.
When ATF came in and basicallythey had chemical testing and
(42:48):
stuff, we're immediately able toshow with no problem that there
was a accelerant used in a firein arson.
Marcy (42:54):
But how did the ATF actually get initially involved
in this?
Mark (42:59):
The main problem is I don't think there was a lot of
confidence in the initialruling.
Most cops don't believe incoincidence.
You have two buildings rightnext door to one another.
It's a quiet.
Weekend morning.
A pretty young woman who livesalone in a building next door
disappears, and right next doorthere's a fire, an unexplained
fire.
(43:19):
Both buildings have the sameowner, it stinks.
It's highly suspicious.
So there needed to be an asecond opinion.
It just happened that ATF wasthere and volunteered.
I wanna mention the AnchoragesFire Department has since made
changes to their investigationunit.
They brought additional peopleand made some improvements in
expertise.
(43:39):
One investigator they hiredstarted out as a police officer
with my department and movedover there as the arson
investigator.
Marcy (43:47):
what was the purpose of the fire if it wasn't to dispose
of the body?
Mark (43:53):
Lawson had a prior rape conviction.
He knew, and probably from hisown case, and definitely from
the cases of the other cons hewas spending time with, that
forensics was nailing people.
There was a lot of focus at thattime on new processing
techniques.
DNA was becoming increasinglyreliable.
One of the most populartelevision shows on TV at the
(44:13):
time was csi.
And that although that showedexaggerates the abilities in
forensic science, a lot ofcrooks were becoming at that
time hyper-vigilant of what theywere leaving behind at crime
scenes.
The fire of the scene was forone simple reason to destroy
trace evidence.
Bethany had bled there.
There were probably other bodyfluids, hairs, fibers that could
(44:34):
have been recovered if theyhadn't been destroyed by the
fire.
Marcy (44:38):
So was the fire an effective tactic?
Mark (44:41):
Yes and no.
It did destroy trace evidence,but it also did something that
was very bad for the Lawsons.
It pinpointed the scene of thecrime.
It's funny when I think aboutthe fire in this case, I'm
reminded of what happened withMartin in one of our early
episodes.
He set fire to the murder scenein our murder on Main Street
episode.
I'm convinced that he didn't tryto set the fire again in the
(45:04):
evening because he wasn'tsuccessful in burning down the
house the first time, and hedidn't wanna draw attention in
the evening.
Since in the evening he hadkilled two more people.
He opted to move those bodiesaway from the murder scene to
distract away from the scene.
in this case, the second firethat Lawson lit was successful
at destroying evidence.
Yes.
But it also punctuated theseriousness of the missing
(45:25):
person case.
From next door.
I will say that had he not litthat fire I think that there
would've been indication of thescene of exactly what happened.
This was a sexual assault.
I don't think there's any doubtabout that.
There's a reason he did it.
When he did it, where he did it.
He knew she would be therealone.
But a lot of evidence of thathad been destroyed when he set
(45:45):
the fire.
So when he was convicted ofmurder two.
Just like the judge said,looking at all the evidence, he
was guilty of the wholeenchilada, murder, one, rape,
kidnapping, everything.
The fire kept him from being,from that being clearer.
Marcy (46:02):
It didn't take long for the focus of the investigation
to turn to Lawson, though.
Mark (46:08):
There just weren't many likely suspects.
The ones that were there werefar away, ex-boyfriend off
flying somewhere, accountable.
The his wife, who's a potentialsuspect is also very far away.
You're really shoestring it totry and find a suspect.
And the worst of all is just aguy who bumbled by and did it,
right?
Maybe a burglar.
So an unknown, a completeunknown.
(46:29):
And that's worst case scenarioif you're trying to investigate
this crime.
Once it was known that Lawsonwas a sex offender who had
committed unreported sexassaults in Alaska.
He's the predator in the water.
He's the one you have to focuson until you can absolutely rule
him out or put him behind bars.
Marcy (46:49):
One of the things that profilers often talk about is
that sometimes these cycles ofviolence are spurred on by
events in killer's, personallives, and Lawson's wife had
just dropped everything,including him and run away from
him outta state.
Do you think that influenced hisattack on Bethany?.
Mark (47:10):
Yeah, I think that's a stressor that may have
contributed to him wanting toattack her.
I don't think we really knowwhat caused the wife from just
dropping everything and leaving.
She was apparently so scared shedidn't wanna say anything about
him.
Marcy (47:23):
You mentioned that you were pulled in to help on this
case a little bit later in thecase.
Mark (47:29):
In big cases where people are needed Manpower Available
detectives are poached fromother units.
I think my partner got pulled inearlier.
Maybe I had court going orsomething a case that I couldn't
break away from.
But my first involvement wasmobile surveillance.
And mobile surveillance is manintensive.
And that's before we put thebird dog on.
(47:51):
We were following him andwatching his car.
In some of my later units, viceunit and drugs I did following
and mobile surveillance all thetime.
But this case was really myfirst experience with that.
Marcy (48:03):
Wait, what's Bird Dog?
Mark (48:04):
It's a mobile tracker that you attach to a car.
The authority for that is underby sealed search warrant.
Marcy (48:10):
How did the surveillance go?
Mark (48:12):
It went okay for a while.
A lot of guys like me at thetime were inexperienced, so
after a few days, Lawson knew hewas being followed.
He started doing what we callheat checks.
Speed through alleys, turningdown dead ends and waiting for
people to.
Try and see where he is going.
Once he saw, he started likewaving at people, flipping
people off once he spotted acouple cops, he was really
(48:34):
paranoid.
So everyone, even remotely coplooking, got the one finger
salute as he was driving around.
I got it.
I think that it was hediscovered the tale sometime on
my weekend, and I came back formy weekend and he saw me sitting
on the side of a road.
I wasn't directly following,they call it a dance with
vehicles that follow him.
I see him and he's flipping meoff and I don't even think he
(48:56):
knows I'm a cop.
He knows what he's done, he'sknows he is murdered a girl.
And this guy's driving aroundangry, trying to flip cops off.
That's who he was.
But after the bird dog went on,he's followed less.
But the case officers wanted tokeep the pressure on him.
That's what the thinking was.
So we did intermittent followingand some of that was obvious so
(49:17):
he always thought he was beingfollowed.
Marcy (49:19):
Brother bob seems pretty pitiful.
Was he really just always hisbrother's cleanup guy or do you
think he actually had a role inthe attack on Bethany?
Mark (49:28):
No, it's pretty clear from the phone evidence that Lawson
called Bob at their home andtheir house was like 20 minutes
south.
Bob was Michael's fixer.
He was a reasonable personableguy and he covered for Michael's
rape when he raped a teenager inFairbanks convincing the parents
that their daughter was lying,which is horrible.
But That's what Bob was about.
Bob was about covering for hisbig brother.
Marcy (49:49):
Talk about the rapes that were never reported to police.
Mark (49:53):
That's one of the most extraordinary things I thought
about in this.
I didn't know all the details ofthis investigation.
Reading the book really fleshedout some things, it's
extraordinary.
there's three victims there thatwent unreported.
When I was a supervisor of theSexual Assault unit I read every
report that we got that was evenremotely sex related, hundreds
of them.
(50:13):
And I remember at the timethinking about the estimates of
only maybe a quarter of allrapes and sexual attempts are
reported.
So you know, the teenager inFairbanks.
the two ladies, Lawson, held ita gunpoint and told the strip
that that was an attempted rape.
These are emblematic of what, wenever hear about the, that
missing, that unknown number.
(50:36):
And there they are in thisinvestigation.
They start the investigation andboom, we encounter people that
have had this guy do somethingto them.
Marcy (50:44):
You told me that the bartender's account of the rape
attempt was how you decided toapproach writing the crime
against Bethany in thenarrative.
Mark (50:53):
Yeah, I think that's how it went down.
If you think about thebartender's accounts, basically
he had them alone.
And what did he do?
He whipped out his pistol andtold him the strip.
So that's how I wrote it.
I think he had a fantasy, and hetried it once, it didn't work
and.
He tried it again.
He knew that nobody was it's hisbuilding, right?
Nobody's gonna walk in on himthis time.
And I don't think that Bethanyreacted the way he expected.
(51:15):
One of the things that Bob saidwas that Michael was open about
his hatred for women.
He talked about them in thecrudes terms.
This is, was backed up by theinformant who stepped forward
from the business.
Who was suspicious of Michaelbecause of the way he was
talking about her, hisderogatory language.
I think that Bethany didn'tcower.
think she wasn't sub submissiveenough for him.
(51:36):
Didn't live up to what he hadfantasized it would be like.
And that made him angrier andthat's why he killed her.
And this also conclusion in hisbook that that detective
Klinkhart came to when he lookedat all the evidence.
Marcy (51:50):
You've talked about how much you respected detective
Klinkhart's end plan in thiscase?
Mark (51:56):
One day several weeks after I was doing the
surveillance on Lawson I wassitting at my desk and Detective
Klinkhart comes into our office.
The homicide unit's, a differentroom across the hall a little
bit.
And sometimes in the detectiveswhen you need a break, you get
up and walk around.
You might go into one of theother units.
There are lots of differentunits, but actually now they
(52:18):
mention it.
There are two units that wereexceptions that nobody ever went
into on the walkabout just tosee what was going on.
The first unit nobody walkedaround was in financial crimes.
And you can probably guess whyno one wanted to go in there to
shoot the shit.
The second was cyber crimesbecause you didn't wanna see
what they were looking at andyou definitely didn't want to
hear the details of what theywere looking at.
(52:40):
Back to clink.
Walking in I'm at my desk.
and he plunks down across fromme, and I asked him how the case
was going.
And you're almost afraid to ask.
I knew there hadn't been anymajor changes.
Nobody had been charged.
And that after the time lapsed,that wasn't good.
He told me that theinvestigation was almost at the
end of the road.
Everybody knew Bethany was dead.
(53:03):
Everybody knew who had killedher, but there was just no way
to close the case, withoutgetting a cooperative, without
getting the information just toput it over the top.
And he told me he'd come up witha plan that relied on Bob Lawson
having a conscience and a littlebit of a spine.
Marcy (53:19):
That's what I went over in the investigation part,
arresting both of those brotherson criminal discrepancies in the
financial disclosures on theirloan applications.
Right?
Mark (53:28):
Yeah.
And that's basically whatKlinkhart laid out for me.
And I think, know, he came overto just hash it out with
somebody who hadn't beeninvolved in the planning and see
what I thought.
At the time, honestly, the ideaof Bob Lawson, having a
conscience and coming forwardseemed like a long shot.
He'd protected his brother.
We all knew that.
And in talking to him, Iremember having being worried
about the effect the case washaving on Clink and how if he
(53:50):
didn't close this casepositively that was gonna have a
heck of an effect on him.
My history with Clink car washe's the detective that took the
Susan Bailey murder to trialthat I detailed in an earlier
episode.
That was a case I wasemotionally invested in because
it had languished for a coupleof years, he picked it up and I
could see he cared about it asmuch as I did.
The Bethany case was a big casefor the city, and I knew Glenn
(54:12):
had become close to the family,and that increases the emotional
weight for him with this case.
Marcy (54:22):
But his plan worked.
Bob talked.
Mark (54:25):
Yes.
And what a relief that was foreveryone.
Marcy (54:29):
Bob showed them where they dumped the body, but it
couldn't be recovered untilspring.
That must have been excruciatingfor the family.
Mark (54:40):
Yeah.
That was the part that I didn'tknow until I recently read the
book.
I knew they knew where she was.
But I didn't know that Glentrusted the family.
He told them that Bethany wasdead but he swore them to
secrecy about it.
He couldn't tell them where shewas or the details of her death.
he asked them to trust him andhe told them that the case may
(55:00):
depend on them, keeping it asecret.
The wire, finding the body.
All that came after the familyknew Bethany was dead.
And they kept that secretbecause they trusted him and he
trusted them.
And what a burden that must havebeen.
Marcy (55:17):
Bob killed himself and a whole bunch of the evidence was
excluded because he wasn't thereto testify to it.
Mark (55:24):
Basically all of his observations at the scene he
wasn't there to test, to testifyabout them, so they weren't
admitted.
Marcy (55:30):
At some level, the jury saw passed the bullshit and
convicted him at least of murdertwo, instead of totally buying
his, I accidentally killed her.
And I have no idea how ithappened.
Mark (55:41):
After the main trial, the jurors were appalled to learn
about Lawson's past, they tookno time in convicting him of
felon in possession.
The reason for the fell inpossession charge after, because
if they had admitted it beforethe jurors would've, it would've
been prejudicial.
The jurors would've known he hada prior felony arrest.
Marcy (55:59):
I can't believe they're not allowed to know he had a
prior similar conviction.
It's just amazing to me thatthey weren't allowed to know
that.
once they did consider the felonand possession charge, they
pretty much were able to come tothe conclusion that probably he
should have gotten the murderone conviction plus this, plus
the rape.
Mark (56:19):
Yeah.
Okay, so things are excludedbecause of the rules of court,
right?
You can't tell because ofsomebody's prior contacts.
Say I had a felony convictionand that doesn't necessarily
mean maybe I had a propertycrime felony, but that doesn't
necessarily mean I did a rapelater.
But that prior felony couldprejudice the jury's judgment on
the current case.
(56:40):
So it's gotta all be evidence inthe current case.
So these rules exclude a wholebunch, and sometimes you come
away with some wacky rulingsthat make prosecution almost
impossible.
I went to trial on a case whereI literally had to draw with a
pencil, a shotgun.
we lost a gun related chargebecause, the jury didn't wanna
(57:01):
rely on we actually recoveredthe shotgun, but because of the
way we recovered it we lost itin evidence.
And here I am drawing a shotgun,and the jury thought it was,
crazy.
So they didn't go with thatcharge.
But anyway, so it's all based onthe rules of court and yeah.
Without the testimony of Bob thesexual assault, her being naked
wasn't backed up there was somereference to it on the tape, but
(57:22):
wasn't backed up.
A lot of those kind of chargeswent by the wayside.
But afterwards, after the trialis over and he's convicted, all
the information is clear to thejudge and the judge saw through
it.
He, the judge knew.
Like everybody, everybodyknowing all the facts here, know
exactly why she was attacked.
He wasn't cutting up cocaineearly in the morning, miles from
(57:42):
his house in a vacant building.
He knew where she was gonna be.
He attacked her because he knewshe was gonna be there and he
wanted to do something to her.
And everybody knew it once allthe facts are known.
That's exactly what happened.
The trial judge saw throughLawson's bullshit.
He knew what this was about.
Lawson was a monster in thedarkness attracted to Bethany's
(58:03):
light.
The good thing is now he can'thurt any more women.
Marcy (58:12):
Please rate and review Crime Raven wherever you listen.
It helps us get better and ithelps other listeners find us.
Also, if you email us ascreenshot of your review or
send us a question or a case,we'll send you a promo code for
$10 off our very coolmerchandise.
Send them tocrimeravenpodcast@gmail.com.
(58:35):
And if we use your question oryour case in an episode, we'll
send you a free Crime Ravent-shirt.
Remember, email us atcrimeravenpodcast@gmail.com.
Thank you for listening.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to Crime Raven, so you
don't miss an episode Pleaserecommend us to your friends
too.
Check our website atcrimeraven.com crime Raven
(58:59):
hosted by Mark Rein and MarcyRein is written and directed by
mark Rein and edited andproduced by Marcy Rein And it's
a 3 Little Birds, LLCproduction.
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