Love You to Pieces in Wisconsin

The serpent planned her satanic, drug-fueled date night, and a Green Bay family will never be the same.

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Episode Transcript

Marcy (00:01):
Welcome to Crime Raven.
True crimes, real life storiesfrom law enforcement, and issues
crime fighters face.
This podcast highlights crimesresearched by retired detective
sergeant Mark Rein.,
using publicly available information, court records, and
personal recollections.
While we often cannot knowexactly what was said or thought

(00:23):
during the commission of crimes,narratives are based on our
research.
Listener discretion is advised.
Suspects are innocent untilfound guilty in a court of law.
Lamia was a creature ofdarkness.
This hadn't always been true.

(00:45):
Sunlight touched her childhoodfrom time to time, but the grind
of living every day in thisshitty world had almost crushed
her.
Lamia responded in the only wayshe could.
She learned.
She had witnessed her mother'sdaily beatdown as alcohol demons
stole her away, piece by fuckingpiece.

(01:06):
Life lesson one, the people whoshould protect you won't.
They're too weak.
Lesson two, the world is full ofmonsters, some lurking in the
shadows while others hide inplain sight.
They are waiting to consume you.
Years back, Lamia's mindshattered.

(01:26):
Part of her was still the child,weak in the same ways her mother
had been weak, broken by thosewho exploit vulnerability.
She hated that part of herself.
The girl who cowered and shookas she curled up in a tight ball
in her bed, praying that no handwould touch her.
But then there was the other.

(01:47):
The Lamia that forged her life'slessons into armor, shielding
her heart with barbed wire andcold steel.
That Lamia spit oaths back atthat weak little girl.
Warming herself by the heat ofthe words, revenge, retaliation,
retribution, reprisal.

(02:08):
For months Lamia had fantasizedabout her boy.
Not the rough one, the youngone, the quiet one, the one who
when she raised her voice wouldflinch and then do her bidding.
It was so comfortable, sofamiliar, like an old pair of
jeans that slide on and becomepart of your body.
Wrapped around her littlefinger, since they were kids,

(02:31):
she'd strung that boy along foryears.
She was sworn to another man,but that night, With the dog
locked away, the cat would play.
In the dream, even though it hadbeen a while, Lamia and her boy
followed the ritual.
They would set out in search ofdrugs.

(02:53):
Appropriately, they would smokethe bitch, and sundry other
delights.
then, Lamia would take care ofher boy.
Grooming was part of thefantasy.
Trimming.
His Auburn locks both giddy fromintimate touch and the smoke and
the anticipation.
When the time felt right, theboy and Lamia would bid farewell

(03:16):
to friends and slip off into thecold, dark night.
They would end up at his place.
It wasn't perfect.
She thought of it as his pitunderground, but not private
enough.
But with all her wanting, Lamiawas beyond caring.
Once they arrived, they would beunable to shed clothes quickly

(03:36):
enough as they descended.
There would be frantic kissingand fondling as they collapsed
onto the familiar bed.
The boy would break theirembrace, fumble around, And
finally, find the chain.
Holding it up, light scatteringoff the stainless steel rings,
he would wear a quizzicalexpression.
Lamia would pull the chain tautbetween her white knuckled

(03:59):
fists.
The boy, slipped away in his ownfantasy, wouldn't notice the
grip, or her face, as he assumedthe position.
Lammy would mount the boy'snaked back as if to ride,
slinging the chain overhead torein the beast in.
She would own him.
So began the best part of thedream.

(04:20):
Instead of the familiar, playfulgiddy up bitch, Lamia was
stronger, more forceful in thisfantasy.
She pulled and the chain bit theboy's throat.
Feeling sudden, intensepressure, his body stiffened in
alarm.
Lamia wrapped the boy's torsowith her bare legs, anticipating
an epic struggle.
She was not disappointed.

(04:40):
The boy bucked, trying to toss,but her hands and legs held
fast.
She countered his moves,pressing down with her weight.
He pulled, she resisted.
She felt his chest spasm, tryingto suck air.
Unable to shut his rider or drawbreath.
The boy finally collapsed ontothe bed.
Lamia maintained her grip, butshe shifted to watch.

(05:04):
The boy's face was a mask ofpanic, eyes wide, mouth a gaping
hole.
She felt and heard chokedwheezes.
She saw blood and frothy foam.
The face, initially brilliantred, shifted to blue, then
purple.
Lamia, transfixed, absorbedevery detail of her boy's final
minutes.
When she released the pressureon the chain, blood surged from

(05:26):
his throat.
She watched the body shudder,felt the bladder release, heard
the final heartbeat.
What she witnessed exhilaratedand aroused her.
Lamia's fantasy was not merelyto watch her lover die in her
arms.
The experience would drive herwild with lust.
She would grind her naked bodyagainst his.

(05:48):
She would play with him, suckhim, use toys on him, in him.
And as the fantasy grew stale,she would pull from deeper,
darker places.
She would retrieve knives.
Lamia would cut her boy.
Tentatively at first, a slashhere and there.

(06:09):
And then she would focus on theprecious parts.
Slicing, sawing and storing.
Trophies, memorabilia to savor.
Following an orgy of passionatebutchery, Lamia would Saptive
energy would collapse, coil intothe bed at the bottom of the
pit, and slip into oblivion.

(06:33):
Lamia woke slowly.
Disorientation under narcoticfog was a familiar sensation.
Where was she?
It was dark.
Light filtered down from narrowpanes high on one wall.
She stared at the ceiling,allowing her mind to clear, and
as it did, reality surged backlike a wave crashing onto the

(06:54):
beach.
Eyes wide, Lamia rolled in thebed, throwing back the blanket,
her memory filling in detailsnot seen in the dim light.
The boy, her friend, lay besideher, headless.
The exhilaration of the nightwas gone, replaced with fear,
amplified by adrenaline.
Lamia struggled to controlpanic.

(07:16):
Her immediate reaction was torun, to burst from the basement,
and escape into the sunlight.
Run home.
Now, oriented, she looked acrossthe room to the open stairwell.
It was full daylight up there.
She focused her hearing.
A TV.
A murmur of a voice.
Creaking board.

(07:36):
There were people up there.
The basement was completelyopen.
No doors.
Lamia collapsed back flat on thebed.
Heart crashing against ribs,caught between fight and flight.
She instinctively knew that ifshe simply ran away, her life
was over.
She struggled to control herbreath and relax her body.

(07:58):
After a few minutes, calmer,Lamia looked around.
She reminded herself that shewas a predator.
She was in a tight spot, but nottrapped.
Last night, Lamia lived herfantasy.
Now she had to survive it.
She took inventory of hersurroundings and made a plan.

(08:19):
She gathered the knives andstarted cutting.

Mark (08:28):
2.
30 a.
m.
on Wednesday, February 23rd,2022.
It was a cold winter night inGreen Bay, Wisconsin.
The house at 829 Stony BrookLane is in a quiet neighborhood
on the city's west side.
The homeowner, Tara Picanich, isasleep next to her boyfriend in
the second floor loft, When shehears sounds below.

(08:50):
Movement, maybe the screen doorbanging on the side of the
house.
Tara figures it's her son, Chad,or it could be the girl.
They've been flopping in thebasement for the last couple of
days.
Either way, this early morningwake up isn't Tara's first.
Shad hasn't outgrown the partylife, so she worries.
But at 24, he's an adult and shedoesn't want to drive him away.

(09:15):
Tara gets up because it's stillher house.
And Mama Bear is going to checkon her kid.
As Tara descends the main floor,she hears car noises in the
street.
Then everything's silent night,not a creature stirring.
She walks to the side door,probably the one that woke her
up.
She looks out the girl's car isgone, but the light's still on
in the basement.

(09:36):
She pauses at the top of thestairs, directing her hearing
downward.
In the stillness, she needs toknow the answer to the question,
Who's in my house?
Tara's semi finished basement isnot unusual, in that it's a bit
cluttered.
It's the kind of place where youdrop things when you don't want
them lying around in the livingroom, But there's still room for

(09:58):
a bed and some furniture Goingdown there Tara scans the
familiar mess and she sees noone she nearly trips over a
black five gallon bucket at thebase of the stairs.
There's a towel coveringwhatever's inside.
She's a little annoyed, assumingthey've been using the bucket as
a toilet again to avoid havingto come upstairs.
She pulls the towel back.

(10:22):
Steve Hendricks is Tara'sboyfriend.
He barely registered herslipping out of bed.
Then he hears her yelling.
What is she saying?
Call 9 1 1?
Why?
The words he hears coming up thestairs seem nonsensical.
So bizarre.
He can't just call the cops andrepeat whatever the hell she's
saying.

(10:42):
He has to look.
But even then, standing over thebucket, still foggy from sleep,
he doesn't know what the fuckhe's looking at.
The 9 1 1 operator can hear theuncertainty in Steve's voice.
The dispatcher says, okay, tellme what's happening there.
I have no clue what's happeninghere.

(11:04):
My girl swears she's found thesevered head of her son in the
basement.
In a bucket.
The dispatcher.
Did you go down there?
I went down there and I can'ttell what the fuck is.
Pardon my language, I'm a littlefreaked out.
Steve hands the phone to Tara,who confirmed in the emotionless

(11:24):
tone of someone deep in shockthat when she pulled back the
towel from the bucket, She waslooking at her son's disembodied
head..
The first officers to arrivewere highly skeptical.
Police officers working nightshifts see humanity at its
worst.
Fights, shootings, drunks, carcrashes.
But a severed head seemed alittle far out.
They were in Wisconsin, theCheese State.

(11:46):
This wasn't Syria.
so when the pale but normallooking woman in her
nightclothes directed them tothe stairwell, down they went.
The basement looked likethousands of others.
The walls were clean.
It wasn't a dungeon drippingwith gore.
But there was a bucket.
The officers took turns standingover, peering down in disbelief.

(12:06):
And they confirmed with eachother.
There was a head in there.
They could see wavy matted brownhair, the side of a pale face,
blood coat at the bottom of thebucket.
Yeah, this was real.
It took a moment to break thespell.
This was a crime scene.
considerations flooded back in.
They called for help, clearedthe rest of the basement,

(12:27):
finding no one.
It takes time for the discoveryof a body to transition into a
full blown homicideinvestigation.
In this case, additional patrolofficers responded, the entire
house and backyard had to becleared and locked down.
The victim's mother and herboyfriend were taken away for
interviews.
One by one, crime scene anddetectives would arrive.

(12:48):
They gathered on the peripherylike carrion birds as they
assessed their job in the frigidmorning air.
One of the first tasks was toclarify the situation.
The witnesses gave separatestatements that were simple and
consistent.
Shad Thurian was Picanich's 24year old son.
Most of the time he lived at hisfather's home, but would
sometimes come to visit her, dolaundry, shower, stay overnight

(13:12):
in the basement.
For two days prior to the policecall, Shad had been staying in
the basement with a not tooserious girlfriend named Taylor.
Tara and her boyfriend had justseen Taylor briefly, but they
knew she was down there the goldminivan she was driving had been
parked out in front the entiretime.
When Tara described that morningsequence of events to

(13:33):
detectives, she noted that thegold minivan was gone before she
went down into the basement.
She mentioned that she wasirritated that they were using a
bucket instead of a bathroom.
And when asked about that, shesaid that they had an operating
shower, a stall in the bathroom,but no toilet.
Both Tara and her boyfriend saidthat things seemed normal.
There was no indication therewas anything wrong before the

(13:54):
discovery.
Tara didn't know much aboutTaylor.
Just that she and her son hadbeen friends through high
school.
She was seemingly another freespirit who had not grown the
party phase.
So these witness interviews gavedetectives the basis from which
to start their investigation.
Taylor was an obvious person ofinterest and it didn't take long
to come up with her full name.

(14:15):
Tara confirmed from a photo thatthe person they were looking for
is named Taylor Shabiznis, wholived in the apartment on Green
Bay's east side.
This background informationallowed detectives to complete
affidavits for search warrants,and with those in hand, the
scene work could begin.
After search warrants, one ofthe investigative priorities was

(14:35):
to locate and interviewTaylorshire Business.
A plainclothes officer in anunmarked vehicle was sent to get
eyes on the apartment on EastmanAvenue.
Once there, he spotted the goldChrysler minivan in the parking
lot.
It was owned by Shibusiness'sroommate, Scott Tomes.
The officer walked past theunoccupied car.
He He noted large boxes in theback seat, but nothing of

(14:55):
immediate concern.
Later that cold morning, beforethe winter sun had risen, He
Uniformed police approached theapartment.
They caught Taylor off guardjust by luck intercepting her as
she was walking out of thebuilding.
She's a medium sized woman withpale skin and long dark hair.
She seemed stunned as severalofficers surrounded her.
They gave her commands and shecomplied.

(15:17):
the officer who stepped forwardto cuff Taylor noticed that her
hands were covered with driedblood.
Looking around, they realizedthere were faint bloody
footprints in the snow leadingfrom the minivan into the
apartment.
Scene Processing always startswith overall photographs, which
documents the items in theiroriginal location before any
searching is done.
Then there's the investigatorwalkthrough, a survey that

(15:40):
informs decisions on how best tohandle the task.
Cheese State.
This wasn't Syria.
So when the pale but, so whenthe pale but normal looking
woman in her nightclothesdirected them to the stairwell,
down they went.
The basement looked likethousands of others.
The walls were clean.
It wasn't a dungeon drippingwith gore.

(16:01):
But there was a bucket.
The officers took, the officerstook turns standing over,
peering down in disbelief.
And they confirmed with eachother.
There was a head in there.
They could see wavy matted brownhair, the side of a pale face,
blood coat at the bottom of thebucket.
Yeah, this was real.

(16:21):
It took a moment to break thespell.
This was a crime scene.
Tactical considerations floodedback in.
They called for help, clearedthe rest of the basement,
finding no one.
It takes time for the discoveryof a body to transition into a
full blown homicideinvestigation.
In this case, additional patrolofficers responded, the entire

(16:43):
house and backyard had to becleared, the entire house and
backyard had to be cleared andlocked down.
The victim's mother and herboyfriend were taken away for
interviews.
One by one, crime scene anddetectives people would arrive.
They gathered on the peripherylike carrion birds as they
assessed their job in the frigidmorning air.

(17:18):
Wow, ten o'clock, Ethan justmade it.
One of the first tasks was toclarify the situation.
The witnesses gave separatestatements that were simple and
consistent.
Shad Thurian was Picanich's 24year old son.
Most of the time he lived at hisfather's home, but would

(17:38):
sometimes come to visit her, dolaundry, shower, stay overnight
in the basement.
For two days prior to the policecall, Shad had been staying in
the basement with a not tooserious girlfriend named Taylor.
Shad Tara and her boyfriend hadjust seen Taylor briefly, but

(18:03):
they knew she was down there,uh, her gold minivan or the gold
minivan she was driving had beenparked out in front the entire
time.
When Tara described that morningsequence of events to
detectives, she noted that itwas the gold, the gold minivan
was gone before she went downinto the basement.

(18:43):
She mentioned that she wasirritated that they were using
the bucket as a, as a Shementioned that she was irritated
that they were using a bucketinstead of a bathroom.
And when asked about that, shesaid that they had an operating
shower, a stall in the bathroom,but no toilet.
Both Tara and her boyfriend saidthat she had seemed normal.

(19:08):
Both Tara and her boyfriend saidthat things seemed normal.
Uh, there was no indicationthere was anything wrong before
the discovery.
Um, Tara didn't, Tara didn'tknow much about Taylor.
Just as, just that Tara didn'tknow much about Taylor.
Just that she and her son hadbeen friends through high
school.
She was seemingly another free,she, she was seemingly another

(19:29):
free spirit who had not grownthe party phase.
So these witness interviews gavedetectives the basis from which
the basis from which to starttheir investigation.
Taylor was an obvious person ofinterest and it didn't take long
to come up with her full name.
T Tera.
Tara confirmed from a photo thatthe person they were looking for

(19:52):
is named Taylor Shabiznis, wholived in the apartment on Green
Bay's east side.
Her background information, thebackground information that
witnesses provided, provided allof this background information,

(20:14):
all this background information,uh, allowed the detectives to
complete affidavits and searchwarrants, uh, so that the scene.
All this background informationallowed detectives to complete
affidavits for search warrants,and with those in hand, the
scene work could begin.

(20:37):
After search warrants, one ofthe investigative priorities was
to locate and interviewTaylorshire Business.
A plainclothes officer in anunmarked car was sent to get
eyes on the apartment on EastmanAvenue.
A plainclothes officer in anunmarked vehicle was sent to get
eyes on the apartment on EastmanAvenue.
Once there, he spotted the goldChrysler minivan in the parking
lot owned by Shibusiness's Oncethere, he spotted the gold

(21:02):
Chrysler minivan in the parkinglot.
It was owned by Shibusiness'sroommate, Scott Tomes.
The officer walked past theunoccupied car.
He noted large boxes He notedlarge boxes in the back seat,
but nothing of immediateconcern.
Later that cold morning, beforethe winter sun had risen, He
Uniformed police approached theapartment.

(21:24):
They caught Taylor off guardjust by luck intercepting her as
she was walking out of thebuilding.
She's a medium sized woman withpale skin and long dark hair.
She seemed stunned as severalofficers surrounded her.
They gave her commands and hecomplied.
They gave her commands and shecomplied.

(21:44):
The officer who stepped forward,the officer who stepped forward
to cuff Taylor noticed that herhands were covered with dried
blood.
Looking around, they realizedthere were faint bloody
footprints in the snow leadingfrom the minivan into the
apartment.

(22:05):
Back at the crime scene, achoreographed dance was
beginning.
Detectives and scene techs arethe norm, but for this one, the
police were assisted by aforensic doctor and a state
medical legal investigator.
Processing always starts withoverall photographs, the
documentation, and theiroriginal location.
The documentation of items intheir relo The document

(22:28):
Processing Scene processingProcessing always starts with
overall photographs, whichdocuments the items in their
original location before anysearching is complete, before
any searching is done.
Then there's the investigatorwalkthrough, a survey that
informs decisions on how best tohandle the task.

(22:50):
Then the hard part begins.
It's like peeling an onion.
Discrete areas are meticulouslysearched, combed for evidence,
with every new find photographedin place, and items of interest
documented and packaged.
Initially, all the investigatorshad was a head in a bucket, but
as they started moving thingsaround, the room told them the
gruesome story.

(23:11):
It turned out the head was notthe only thing in the bucket.,
it also contained an entiresevered scrotum and two small
knives.
The blankets on the bedconcealed a blood soaked
mattress.
A teal plastic coat on the floornear the bed contained the
torso.
Flayed and eviscerated, looseintestines coiled around the
bloody mass.
There were more body partsscattered around the basement.

(23:32):
Some were in a pink Under Armourbackpack.
some wrapped in plastic shoppingbags and stuffed into a Jimmy
Choo duffel.
Which also held bloody Lysolwipes.
A serrated flesh encrusted breadknife.
And two smaller knives that weretwisted and broken.
all the knives matched a set inthe upstairs kitchen.
As the body parts were examined,it became obvious that the

(23:53):
dismemberment had been crudelydone.
The joints were hacked, theflesh jaggedly sliced.
Along with concealment, therehad been an attempt to clean up
the room.
Used cleaning products, Cloroxwipes, blood stained towels had
been used and hurriedly stashedalong with the body parts.
The shower stall had been rinsedand squeegee, but there were
telltale stains in the grout andaround the drain.

(24:15):
Crime scene text theorized thatmost of the body fluids were
initially contained by the largeplastic tote, which was then
drained directly into theshower.
That was why there wasn't bloodeverywhere.
All around the room,interspersed with the evidence
of homicide, lay signs of lowend drug use.
a broken glass pipe, a butanetorch, a green baggie with meth

(24:36):
residue.
Late in the process, as thescene operation was wrapping up,
the investigators took inventoryof the recovered body.
They discovered some of theparts were missing.
Early in the process, the sceneprognosticators formed a working
theory that the killer had beentrying to avoid detection by
cleaning up and attempting toremove the body from the house
piece by piece.

(24:59):
The assumption was that the planhad been interrupted and
abandoned when Tara Picanichbegan stirring two floors above.
That theory and the fact thatsignificant body parts were
missing made searching theChrysler minivan a priority.
The vehicle had been impoundedto the police evidence lot.
Inside investigators found partsof Shad Therian's right and left

(25:20):
legs packed into a cardboardbox.
Like the other pieces, they'vebeen hacked up, not cleanly cut.
Inexplicably, the right femurhad been completely defleshed.
By the time she was picked up,the detectives who were tasked
with interviewing Taylor's showbusiness had done some homework.
She was a drug user with acriminal record, including a

(25:40):
recent conviction for eludingand resisting arrest.
In fact, she was supposed to beunder ankle monitor in home
confinement.
But she had cut that off.
She would eventually have beensent back to prison, but that
hadn't happened yet.
For that morning's arrest,Shabesnes had answered the
patrol officers questionsappropriately.
They thought she was actingnormally, given the

(26:01):
circumstances.
Seated in the small windowlessinterview room, Shabesnes seemed
calm.
The detectives stepped in,introduced themselves, they
exchanged pleasantries.
The chitchat moved into theMiranda warning, and she agreed
to talk to them.
They started easy withbackground and timeline.

(26:22):
Shabizness, who is 25, had knownShad since middle school, and
they'd been boyfriend girlfriendfor two years during high
school.
Since graduation in 2016, theyhad an ongoing friends with
benefits type sexualrelationship.
Two days prior, around 9.
30 p.
m.
on Friday, February 21st,Shabusiness borrowed her friend

(26:42):
Scott's minivan to pick up Shadand another friend, A.
J.
The group then found a dealerand bought a hundred bucks in
meth.
After that, they went to Scott'sapartment, where all four of
them smoked marijuana, meth, andinjected trazodone.
Later in the evening, Shabiznesscut Shad's hair, and she and

(27:04):
Shad parted ways with theirfriends in search of crack.
None of the contacts had anyCoke to sell, so the pair drove
over to Shads mom's house.
The story this far had taken awhile to get outta she business.
She had been vague and evasive,clearly not eager to get down to
details.
So in the interview, it took amore direct route, telling her

(27:25):
they'd found Shad's head in thebasement.
She replied, that's fucked up.
After that, to everyone'ssurprise, she became more
focused, the detectives askedquestions, and Taylor Chabisnes
answered.
She said, it had just been herand Chad in the basement.
When they arrived, the mom'sboyfriend answered the door, let

(27:46):
them in this was two days prior.
It had just been her and Shad inthe basement, they hadn't gone
anywhere since.
Downstairs, she and Shad, quote,smoked the bitch.
Meaning crystal meth.
Shad got out a couple of metalchoke chains, the kind commonly
used for large dogs.
Shebizness explained that theyplayed around with choking
during sex in the past, sothat's part of their foreplay.

(28:09):
She had gotten up on Shad'sback, riding him with the chain
around his neck.
She said, I was riding him likea donkey.
She started pulling the chainharder, telling the detectives,
I just didn't stop, I don't knowwhy.
Unable to breathe, Shad beganstruggling, collapsing on the
floor with Shabizness on top ofhim.
She described the changes Shadwent through as he died over the

(28:29):
next several minutes.
Shabizness didn't stop.
She began playing with Shad'sbody.
She described cuddling him,grinding him, sucking him,
stroking him.
She used a sex toy on him.
Then she had an idea.
It was the middle of the night.
She crept upstairs and chose anassortment of knives from the
kitchen.
Back down continue to have sexwith Shad's body, but now it

(28:49):
involved the knives.
One of the detectives broke inasking clarifying questions
about when the sex acts hadended and the mutilation began.
She said, quote, I was suckingand cutting.
She business decided that shewanted to keep parts of Shad's
body.
She found the bucket.
She was worried about making ahuge mess, so she positioned the
body over the bed with the headhanging off, sliding the storage

(29:11):
tote below, begin hackingthrough the neck.
By the time the head and hisscrotum lay in the bucket, the
effects of meth and adrenalinewere wearing off.
Completely exhausted, she passedout on the bed.
Shebizna said she woke hourslater, next to Shad's headless
body.
She could see the glow ofdaylight from the windows above,

(29:31):
could hear people moving aroundupstairs.
She described the feeling as aliving nightmare.
The basement was open, therewere no doors, and fearing
discovery at any minute, shestarted taking apart the body
piece by piece.
She wrapped some of the flesh ingrocery bags, and she complained
that it took forever.
So long, in fact, that shenodded off several times during
the process.

(29:53):
Her plan was to pack everythingout in containers during the
second night cleaning enough toavoid immediate discovery.
To this end she business,drained the bodily fluids into
the tote, which were then poureddown the shower drain.
parts went into the backpack andthe duffles.
The torso and guts went into thetote.
She used bleach wipes and towelsto mop up what she could.

(30:13):
Shebusiness described that bythe second night she was feeling
paranoid, but lazy.
By early morning, she had onlymoved a couple of things into
the van.
When she heard movementupstairs, so she fled, bemoaning
the loss of her favorite parts,saying at one point, I forgot
the head.
I wanted the head.
And later, I like the head, Ican't believe I left it there.
And she remembered that she hadput it in a black bucket with a

(30:35):
blanket on top right by thestairs so she wouldn't forget
it.
During Shibusiness story, thedetectives interjected to direct
and clarify part of herstatement.
She confirmed that the onlytools she used for dismember
were knives taken from thekitchen.
She complained about havingtrouble with the small knives,
but she said the serrated breadknife worked great.
Adding that.
The detectives would've funtrying to find all the organs

(30:58):
when she business was asked whyshe did it, her response was,
you ever love something so muchthat you kill it?
She didn't want shad to be dead,but admitted that she never
tried to get him help after hestopped breathing.
During the interview.
The detectives at the policestation were in communication
with their team members at thescene.
Where the process was wellunderway based on ship
businesses revelations theyseized two long silver choke

(31:22):
chains and a flesh coloreddildo.
Shabesnes interviews called fora look into her past.
Here's what investigators found.
Her name growing up was TaylorDenise Coronado.
She lived with her father,brother, and mother, Marla, who
died in 2009 from cirrhosis ofthe liver, a complication of
chronic alcohol abuse.
The death was unexpected.

(31:43):
Marla, the mom, just didn't wakeup one morning.
Shabesnes, who was 11 years oldand in the 7th grade at the
time, became unstable andattempted suicide.
All these problems contributedto issues at school.
So then the single fathershipped business off to Texas
for a year to live with theirgrandparents she continued to
have mental health issues in theyears that followed.

(32:04):
And while undergoing treatmentshe was diagnosed with Attention
Deficit Disorder, AttentionDeficit Hyperactivity Disorder,
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,and Bipolar.
In early 2020, Shibiznis had ababy boy and married the father,
Warren Shabow.
She changed her legal name fromCoronado to Shibiznis, a name
she prefers to Shabow.

(32:26):
The following years weredifficult.
Warren Shabow was arrested andwent to federal prison for
distribution of methamphetamine.
Shibiznis brother was killed ina motorcycle accident and her
father, Arturo Coronado, put inprison for raping a 13 year old
family member.
So for charges, Shibiznis wascharged with first degree
intentional homicide, mutilationof a corpse, third degree sexual

(32:47):
assault.
She was held at Brown County
Jail with a 2 million dollarscash bail.
The facts of the case were sensational, but largely held
only local attention.
The quiet lasted until during anearly court hearing, Shabiza
suddenly attacked her defensecounsel.
Even in handcuffs, she was ableto elbow the man's head.
A bailiff jumped on her, pinningher to the ground, but the

(33:08):
ensuing wrestling match lastedseveral minutes.
The dramatic video, plus detailsof the murder were enough to
draw national attention.
After that assault, the CountySheriff increased security.
He added deputies and requiredChabis's to be shackled and leg
irons during court appearances.
Preparing for trial, SherBusiness attorney filed pro
forma motions to excludeevidence seized during searches

(33:29):
of her phone, the van, theapartment.
These requests were denied bythe court, as was a change of
venue request based on the highlevel of publicity the case was
garnering.
There was one successful motionto suppress.
A search of Shabia's cell phonerevealed she had a search
history and information onsatanism.
The jury would not be allowed tosee that information.

(33:51):
One of the interesting pretrialchallenges from the defense was
a request to dismiss a thirddegree sexual assault charge.
The defense asserted that upuntil Chad's death, the sex had
been consensual.
After the death, a body is nolonger a person, so sexual
assault should not apply.
The judge shot this motion downagreeing with the prosecution

(34:11):
that the victim did not giveconsent to be murdered during
sex and a dead body is unable togive consent.
The obvious defense challenge tothis case was competency.
This came in two parts.
The first was she a business toohigh during and after the
murder, was she too high tounderstand that she was killing
Shad Therian or was she too highto understand that it was wrong?

(34:33):
The other thing is, was she toohigh to waiver Miranda rights
and give a voluntary statement?
The second thing was morecomplicated.
Was she a business insane?
Was she mentally competent?
On the drug impairment question,the court ruled that she
business was coherent enough towaive the Miranda warning and
give a statement.
The interview that was filmedsupported this finding, as did

(34:54):
the testimony of theinterviewing detectives, who
said she did not appear to behigh and clearly answered
appropriately most of theirquestions.
Additionally, on March 3rd,while in jail, Shibisnus called
a friend, and on that facility'srecorded line, the friend asked
her if she made the mistake oftalking to the police because
she was high, and Shibisnusdenied being under the influence

(35:14):
of drugs while doing theinterview.
As far as the mental competencyquestion each side hired its own
psychologist.
Shabiznis underwent multipleevaluations.
In the end, the defense assertedthat she was not competent in
citing the very nature of thecrime, her past diagnosis of
psychological issues, and someof her inappropriate recent

(35:35):
behavior, like assaulting herattorney in court.
The psychologist for the state'sopinion was that Shabiznis was
fit to stand trial.
She acknowledges that Shabazzushad past depression and suicidal
ideation, but neither wereindicative of severe mental
illness.
The doctor listed examples ofhow, quote, she has the ability

(35:57):
to control herself when it's inher interest and referred to
this as volitional conduct.
The doctor said that it wasinconsistent with patients
experiencing true psychosis.
Dismissed Chabisnes complaintsof amnesia and hallucinations
based on the defendant's ownstatements, which are
inconsistent and oftencontradictory.
In summary, the prosecution'spsychologist found that

(36:17):
Chabisnes was feigning symptoms.
Her actions and descriptionswere consistent on how Chabisnes
felt someone with mental healthillness might act.
which is very different thanwhat it actually looks like in
reality.
So the judge hearing these twosides, found her competent to
stand trial.

(36:37):
At the trial, the prosecutionbrought an Avalanche of
witnesses.
They put on AJ who corroboratedyour business account of the
dope run they took and whathappened at his apartment.
She gave him a haircut.
AJ said he didn't noticeanything unusual about what your
business or shad theory and didthat night and didn't even know
about the murder until almost aweek later, the prosecution put

(36:58):
on a bunch of patrol officers,detectives, scene and evidence
technicians who brought intocourt and submitted a mountain
of evidence.
There were the confessioninterviews.
There were the scene photos,which are gruesome, and other
physical evidence.
Some of the evidence wassurprising.
In a search of her business cellphone, they found that she was

(37:20):
enamored with the serial killerJeffrey Dahmer.
Some of the testimony isdifficult to hear.
The medical examiner gave adetailed analysis of the
autopsy.
Death was caused by manualstrangulation, by ligature,
consistent with the dog chokechain found on the scene.
The head, even after death, hadindications of asphyxia,

(37:41):
petechial hemorrhages, bloodstill pooled in parts of the
face, causing the purple tint.
He said that the strangulationwas forceful, with bruising
throughout the musculature ofthe neck.
The doctor also describedhaphazard cutting of the body
start and stop type wounds ofthe dismemberment and
evisceration.
All the cuts were non heerratic, indicating they were

(38:02):
postmortem.
Most of the cuts were done usingthe serrated bread knife.
He also said, The skin andmuscles of the back were flayed
off the torso, exposing theribcage.
In the summary statement, thedoctor said, quote, We have
decapitation, we havedismemberment, we have
transection of the torso.
Subsequently, internally, thebody had been eviscerated.

(38:24):
In other words, we have enteredinside the body through various
cuts through the abdomen andbetween the ribs where the
victim's organs have beenremoved.
One by one, the defense didn'thave the prosecution's mountain
of evidence, the claim of mentalincompetence had been denied.
So defense based their phase ofthe trial.

(38:44):
on uncertainty and emotionalappeal.
No one saw what happened in thebasement, so no one really
knows.
Nobody ever actually sawShabizness driving the minivan
after the murder.
Maybe one of the friends, AJ orScott, the roommate, knows
something.
There was no open accusationthere, but the defense attorney

(39:05):
told the jury it's, justsomething to take into account.
Could this have been a simpleaccident?
Maybe the actual death wasunintentional.
Shibizna's father, ArturoCoronado, is currently serving a
12 year sentence for sexualassault of a child.
He came to the trial wearing hisorange jumpsuit, handcuffed and
shackled.

(39:26):
He testified that Shibizna'smental state had been fragile
ever since the deaths of hermother and brother.
She'd been briefly hospitalizedfor bad postpartum depression.
Mainly, Coronado blamed thehusband, Warren, and his drugs
for exacerbating his daughter'sproblems.
Warren Chabot had no part in thetrial, but released statements
of support from prison.

(39:48):
Quote, I know what she's beingaccused of is not who she is.
Not only has her addictionplayed a big role, but so does
her mental background, as wellas postpartum depression.
I just want my wife to get help,professional help, she deserves.
I just hope one day my wife willmake it home because she doesn't
deserve to be locked up forever.
The jury felt otherwise.

(40:09):
They convicted Taylor shebusiness of all charges after
deliberating for less than anhour.
They also found that she was notmentally ill and knew that
killing Shad Thurian was wrong.
At the sentencing hearing, twomembers of Shad Thurian's family
spoke.
The Kelly Therian, Shad's uncle,directed his scorn at Shabazzus,
saying it was, quote, the mostcowardly thing you could do,

(40:30):
take advantage of Shad'sfriendship to kill him.
I will pray that you meet thesame fate as your idealistic
Jeffrey Dahmer.
Michael Therian, Shad's father,said to her, Taylor, I forgive
you for what you did to my son.
You made a bad choice.
Shad was a wonderful child, too.
I believe everyone makes badchoices, maybe not to this

(40:52):
scale, but it does no good tohate you.
The defense attorney spoke onShabazz's behalf saying she's
not a monster to make the pleathat at the age 25
rehabilitation should be theultimate goal.
Before passing the sentence, thejudge asked Shabazz if she
wanted to say anything.
She replied, no, there isn't.

(41:14):
Brown County Circuit JudgeThomas Walsh said of the crime,
the offense in this case can'tbe overstated.
You seem to run out ofsuperlatives.
Where the victim's remains arecut up, these actions are
foreign.
They shock the community.
There aren't really words forit.
He sentenced your business tolife in prison without the
possibility of parole.

Marcy (41:39):
Let's talk about the victim in this case.
You mentioned that this was aparticularly hard case to write.

Mark (41:45):
Yeah, so my purpose in the first part of these.
is write a fictionalrepresentation based on the
evidence that gets as close aspossible to the reality of the
crime.
Now, this approach can seemgratuitous at times, and I try
and avoid that, but this one wasparticularly horrific.
It was the definition ofgratuitous.

Marcy (42:05):
You called the victim a kid, even though he's 24.

Mark (42:09):
Yeah, he was a kid in many respects.
Like a lot of young people, hehadn't worked his way to a full
adulthood.
He's still partying with drugabuse.
He's flopping at friends housesand with parents.
It's not that unusual a story.
Most people who start off likethis later, find their adult
selves.
Get into their real lives So Ifeel for him.
I feel for the family that lovedhim.

(42:30):
He had a mother, he had a dad, asister, an extended family.
He worked on and off for hisgrandfather's business.
For them, particularly hismother, this was an absolute
nightmare.
There are many people who areyoung who go through the, sex,
drugs, and rock and roll phase.
Then they get their shittogether and, move on to a more
productive phase of life.

Marcy (42:51):
Brains aren't fully developed until about 25 years
old.
And the last thing that developsis the part of the brain that
helps people understand causeand effect and have good
judgment.
I do want to be careful not tonormalize drug use.
Plenty of people avoid thisphase.
You did.

Mark (43:08):
Yeah, I was never into drugs.
But my time in the Marines is alittle alcohol soaked and the
same with college.
But I was never in a situationwhere I had the freedom to just
let it all go.
But if I hadn't kept myself on apath, if I hadn't made
commitments hung around the townwhere I had graduated high
school, with nothing to do,anything's possible.
Yeah, I think we all knowpeople, brothers, sisters,

(43:30):
friends, who have been at onepoint, the wild child.
When you're young, you feelimmortal.
Maybe you don't think about therisky behavior catching up to
you.
But the fact is that people inevery age group, they're
permanently lost to drugs.
More fentanyl deaths.
You can never recover if youdie.
But, this victim in this caseshould have been allowed to live
and he ran into a monster.

Marcy (43:52):
As far as monsters go, a woman killing and dismembering a
man seems very unusual.

Mark (43:59):
Yeah, this is why I picked this case.
Men doing this kind of thing,although obviously very rare
it's much more common thanfemale.
This case came to my attentionwhen I was watching the news and
the media report that a womanhad attacked her defense
attorney which isn't unusual.
But then I heard the lady cut upher boyfriend and left his parts
all over the house.

Marcy (44:19):
And you said to yourself, wait, I have to know more.

Mark (44:22):
Yeah, that's the investigator in me.
I'm always asking why,particularly in very unusual
circumstances.
In this, I had to know themotive.
The media blamed it on meth.
I worked in narcotics.
Dismemberment is not a commondrug thing.

Marcy (44:36):
is a dump a body kind of thing.

Mark (44:38):
Yeah.
And, so yes, you could havedismemberment to dump a body.
And I guess it has been involvedin narcotics cases, homicides or
even maybe even overdoses.
But this offender, in this newsstory it's reporting as
reportedly his girlfriend.
And that's an unusual thing.
I had to know more.
We're talking about this casebecause it turned out to be

(44:59):
interesting.
Yeah.

Marcy (44:59):
Why did you name her Lamia?

Mark (45:05):
Okay so anyone listening may wonder how I choose names
for the narratives.
Part of it was, I didn't want tosay the name Shibbusiness over
and over again.
In general, I like to find amoniker that fits other than the
common name.
You may have heard the idiom,there's nothing new under the
sun.

Marcy (45:24):
Is that Shakespeare?

Mark (45:25):
It does sound like him, but it's actually biblical.
Basically that phrase, as I'mrelating it to this criminal
behavior, references fact thatpeople are generally motivated
for a relatively small list ofreasons.

Marcy (45:37):
Like greed.

Mark (45:38):
Greed is, I think, the number one motive.
But also anger, jealousy,revenge.
There are several.
So I write these narratives as afictionalized version of the
crime based on real evidence.
I focus on motivation and try tofind a historical representative
for the nickname, becausethere's nothing new under the
sun.

Marcy (45:57):
So where does Lamia actually come from?

Mark (45:59):
Lamia is a Greek goddess, part woman, part snake.
She eats babies.
She seduces men leading there totheir destruction.
Lamia, like our villain here, isa product of human influence.
Nurture more than nature.

Marcy (46:14):
Let's talk about the scene.

Mark (46:16):
Okay.
Imagine being the mother in thiscase.
It's almost beyondcomprehension.

Marcy (46:21):
Yeah, finding a loved one that's collapsed in the living
room or something is shocking,but it's immediately
understandable.

Mark (46:28):
But this two in the morning, it's a nightmare.

Marcy (46:31):
The 911 call is amazing.
The callers cannot believewhat's happening.
And the dispatcher is totallytrying to figure it out.

Mark (46:38):
When I was a patrol officer, I worked night shift
for several years.
I never went ahead in a bucket.
But I saw many other shockingthings.
shift is its own animal.
Things happen that seem divorcedfrom the rest of the civilized
world.

Marcy (46:53):
When officers are sent to a call that's going to turn out
to be a big incident, do youusually have a sense of that
ahead of time?

Mark (47:00):
Sometimes.
dispatch with lots of detail,maybe multiple callers saying
something like there's been ashooting.
You pretty much know then it'sgoing to be a major incident.
occasionally you get there andit's nothing.
The person who's breaking intothe house in the middle of the
night turns out to be thehomeowner.
Those loud bangs weren'tgunshots.
The guy running from the scenein the middle of the night was

(47:21):
actually delivering thenewspaper.
But sometimes you get to ascene, and someone's shot, and
maybe the shooting's not overyet.

Marcy (47:29):
You go into calls with an open mind, then.

Mark (47:32):
Yeah, or you try to.
But a head in the bucket call?
Every cop is going to beskeptical.

Marcy (47:38):
And the police officers on this call could not believe
what they were seeing.

Mark (47:43):
Yeah, the body cam I watched took me back to patrol
days.
One officer said, looking down,Dude, is that real?
And the officer, too, says,That's real, dog.

Marcy (47:56):
Then the big response starts.
Go through the stages of a majorcrime scene call up.

Mark (48:02):
So as far as what I found, Green Bay did it just like my
department would have in a lotof departments.
Initially, additional patrolofficers would be called in to
clear and lock down the scene.
Witnesses are taken to thestation for interview if they'll
go.
That also gets them out of theway, out of the scene.
Crime scene detectives in thescene team units are activated

(48:26):
and some respond to the scene,depending on the call, some
maybe go to the hospital, maybesome go to the station.
It all depends on the layout thehow everything's gone down and
what's happening.

Marcy (48:37):
You have experience getting those middle of the
night calls.

Mark (48:41):
Yeah, as a case detective, was called out by the unit
supervisor and later as asergeant I did the calling I'd
triage cases over the phone andsend out, all of or part of my
team based on how big the callwas.
Sometimes we'd handle the crimescene within the unit if it
wasn't all that complicated.
Sometimes part or all the crimescene team would be requested to
come out.

Marcy (49:01):
Investigators got a search warrant for the house,
even though the owner wastotally cooperative.
Why go through all that effort?

Mark (49:08):
Starting out an investigation, you don't know
everything.
You may not know who the suspectis or if they might have legal
reason to object to any searchyou're doing.
So to avoid the court challengeyou obtain that search warrant.
Still like to have consent, butthe warrant is a CYA thing.
Conversely, in a case, if you,if it's a serious case and you
show up and there's somebodythat could consent and they

(49:30):
refuse to do so, that'spotentially a red flag worth
investigating.
Why is that happening?

Marcy (49:35):
Talk a little bit about why, when experts get involved
in a case.
This one had a medical legalexpert, a forensic doctor, the
chief of operations with thestate lab.
How common is it to have allthose guys?

Mark (49:49):
It's important to recognize that in these units,
the experienced detectives areexperts.
Most of these cases theyencounter are well within their
ability to handle that.
Even in this one, I would hazardto say that the detectives and a
rep from the ME's office couldhave done the job adequately
without any additional sceneexperts.

Marcy (50:07):
There would have been an autopsy by a pathologist, even
if none of the experts hadactually responded to the scene.

Mark (50:13):
Yeah, that's correct.
And that's why I'm saying thiscould have been handled just by
them, but in special, unusual,interesting cases, you know, the
kind of cases you write books onexperts will leave their, the
comfort of their offices andventure out into the field.
At my department, all of themajor crime units had resources
they could and would contact forthese unusual or problematic

(50:34):
cases where we had havequestions answered.
Like in sexual assault, I workclosely with the supervisor of
our district attorney andspecial assaults unit.
We had nurse examiners whoworked with all the victims and
we had access to medical doctorswho could advise and testify in
complicated cases.
And homicide and other units hadthe same kind of, team effort.

Marcy (50:54):
An officer was sent to watch the Eastman Avenue
apartment, Shibusiness place.
Why not just go in and pick herup right away?

Mark (51:03):
So in in a case like this, beginning with a 911 call,
you're starting from zero.
It takes time to gain enoughknowledge to proceed
intelligently the patrolofficers arrived at the scene
and probably got, the basicstory but maybe not enough
information to get the fullsearch warrant affidavit and to
get that, To flesh everythingout so that you can go forward

(51:24):
intelligently, it takes time.
So it's common for someone to goin, like in this case, you got
somebody in plainclothes in anunmarked car, to go in and scout
and watch a location.
I supervise an investigativesupport unit and we would do
this.
Like I said, you go in, you justpark your car and observe, see

(51:44):
what you can see.
Maybe you can see somethingimportant to the case and
confirm, maybe you confirm theperson you're looking for is
there.
And you're not going to tip yourhand by using a marked unit or
an obvious detective card.
I love doing that work and mydetectives and I were often able
to find targets, get informationwithout spooking the quarry.

Marcy (52:05):
Let's talk about the effects of poly drug use.
Do you think that was partiallyresponsible for this crime?

Mark (52:12):
It sounds like they were doing crazy drug combos here.
Stimulants, depressants.
I'd expect erratic behavior.
But lots and lots of people dothat and never kill anybody,
much less what happened in thiscase.
I think, based on what I'veseen, the role of drugs here is
the standard thing.
They lessen inhibition.

Marcy (52:30):
Like with alcohol and the term liquid courage.

Mark (52:33):
Yeah, it's the same thing with other drugs too.
To, to a lesser or greaterextent.
I firmly believe that's the roledrugs played here.

Marcy (52:40):
I think mental health had to play a part too, even though
it wasn't enough to have herfound incompetent to stand
trial.

Mark (52:48):
Yeah, for sure.
There are red flags all over herlife.
Look at the crime.
You think she did what she didspur of the moment?
No, this was her fantasy put inmotion, which is why I wrote
that.
Domination, subjugation,mutilation.
She's interested in JeffreyDahmer who killed and mutilated
for sexual gratification andkept parts of his victim.

(53:08):
The question is, how didShabiznis get there?
Look at her life.
Mom killed herself with alcohol.
She lived with her dad who wouldlater go to prison for raping a
girl about the same ageShabiznis was when her mother
died.

Marcy (53:22):
Do you think she was victimized?

Mark (53:24):
Yeah, I'm very suspicious.
She was neglected.
And sexual abuse by someoneseems very likely.
This crime speaks of pent uprage, a desire for retribution.

Marcy (53:37):
What's your opinion of how the investigation was
conducted on the whole?

Mark (53:41):
Yeah, I think they did a good job.
It was complete.
As I read the the scenario ofwhat happened, what she did, I'm
thinking of avenues that shecould put up as her defense, or
defense attorneys could put upas a defense.
Thank you.
These interviewers got damningstatements and they covered what
I consider all of the avenues ofescape I could think of.
I think the best way she couldhave defended herself with

(54:03):
everything already done at thescene was that she claimed it
was accidental death and thatshe panicked and cut up and
dismembered the body.
The investigators obviously sawthat defense and were patient
and, took her statement andsewed up those excuses tight.

Marcy (54:20):
With the confession, the case seems like a slam dunk.

Mark (54:24):
Yeah, but they still covered everything both with
physical evidence, withcorroborative evidence.
Unfortunately, there are many.
Places in less professionaldepartments where, you get a
confession plus cursory evidenceseen processing, it'd be
considered complete.
And you would have holes in thiscase then that a defense
attorney might be able toexploit.
But in this case, they coveredtheir bases.

Marcy (54:47):
While we're talking about confessions, here we have
another suspect who didsomething horrible, at least
initially claiming that sheblacked out or couldn't remember
what was happening.

Mark (54:56):
Yeah, it's just like the others.
Before she broke and decided totell everything she had that I
don't remember.
I don't remember.
I don't remember.
just like the others, they know,obviously later you hear from
her statement that she rememberseverything.
But she doesn't want to describeit because she doesn't want to
have to explain it.

Marcy (55:14):
Why do you think she eventually talked?

Mark (55:16):
I personally, I think she's a deep well of need.
I've seen in interviews wherePeople I'm bringing in, they
want to have a good relationshipwith me.
And my call is that in thiscase, your business like the
attention from the cops, she waswilling to cooperate.
Well, That attention lasted.
The other thing is think abouther experience here.

(55:37):
It's, it's an amazingexperience, which he did.
Maybe she just wanted to talk tosomeone about it.
One thing about this is that.
Everybody, my experience,everybody minimizes, right?
But she didn't, she just told itstraight.
And I think that was, she toldit straight because she wanted
to shock them.

(55:58):
She wanted their full attention.
She wanted to keep theirattention and wanted to impress
them.

Marcy (56:04):
You had mentioned something in your analysis of
this case about statementanalysis.

Mark (56:12):
Yeah, so you're looking at body language and how they say
things.
One of the famous things instatement analysis is they have
a homicide.
Suspect, how does that personrefer to the subject.
If we suspect the person's dead,is the subject referring to the
person as being dead?
Using past tense and so forth.

(56:32):
So watch these interviews withan eye toward statement analysis
which, especially what she wasdoing with her body while she's
talking.
The interviewers did a good jobof asking open ended questions
and Shabazzus, when she startedto give detailed answers, she
did things that indicatetruthfulness.
For example, as she wasrecounting the incident, she
made hand gestures that wereappropriate to the story she was

(56:55):
telling.
She said in motion, choking.
She said in motion cutting andseemed very natural and
consistent with a person who'stelling the truth from memory.

Marcy (57:05):
It seems odd that she would be so forthcoming during
the police interrogation andthen turn around and behave like
she did in court.

Mark (57:12):
Yeah, she isn't a cause and effect person.
She didn't realize when she wasgiving it all up, what that
meant long term.
She only fully realized laterthe hole she dug for herself as
she spent time in jail.
And then she got angry and whenshe gets into court in public,
she lashes out.

Marcy (57:32):
So speaking about court, you were surprised that the
sexual assault count was upheldand that she was convicted
basically of sexually assaultinga corpse.

Mark (57:42):
Yes, I was involved in a case, a murder that involved
sexual assault where there was aconviction for the homicide but
not the sex.
But I was happy to see that itwas rightly decided here.
The motive of this murder waspartially sex based and I think
it's appropriate that we assumethe victim would not have
consented to sex at any pointduring or after his murder.

(58:04):
Consent can be a, consent can bea slippery issue.
And in general, I'd agree that acorpse cannot be sexually
assaulted.
That's why there are often othercharges pertaining to misconduct
with a body.
The facts of this case aredifferent than, say, the average
case of necrophilia if thatmakes any sense.

Marcy (58:23):
Talk about how you think the defense attorney did in this
case.

Mark (58:27):
I think he did well, considering what he had to work
with.
To be fair, that poor guy had tosay something.
The confession video wascompelling enough, but you have
a ton of physical evidence thatmatches, her detailed
descriptions.
That's hard to overcome.

Marcy (58:41):
But you think he could have done more?
I don't know.

Mark (58:43):
Yeah, I think you should have gone harder at the
accidental death assertion andexplain that she business is
weird.
She's unstable.
She didn't really mean to killShad during sex She really was
trying to cover up an accidentwhen she started cutting him up
and, to explain the detailedconfession, he could have said,
she was telling the cops whatshe thought they wanted to hear.

(59:04):
I was recently reading anarticle that talked about how
female cannibalism has come upin several TV shows For example,
there's a show called YellowJackets that has cannibalism.
The defense could have usedexamples from the media and made
this assertion that it's a ithad an effect on the defendant's
impressionable mind.

(59:26):
Not that she would do it forthat reason, just as she was
reasonably trying to cover upwhat was actually an explainable
accidental death.

Marcy (59:33):
And one thing we haven't talked about yet is bail or
arrest reform in relation tothis case.
So in this is a crime that couldhave been prevented had she not
been allowed out of jail basedon the nature of her recent
prior conviction.

Mark (59:50):
Yeah, there's a stage of drug addiction category of user
who I used to refer to as afiend.
The fiend functions like ananimal searching for food.
Yeah.
In this example, food is dope.
They'll do whatever they need todo to get it.
These people have burned throughtheir friends and families as a
source of money, so they'll doanything.

(01:00:11):
A degrading sex act, asenselessly bold crime, a
senselessly violent crime.
This makes them particularlydangerous to citizens because,
they can see you as standingbetween them and survival.
This is where you get thosevideos of security guards
outside of stores being run overby a driver who has run a cart
of stolen stuff out of thestore.

(01:00:33):
Fiends steal things they knowthey can sell or barter for
drugs or cash to buy drugs.
And these people don't have alot of imagination or a lot of
time to get their drugs to plantheir crimes.
So they repeat their favoritecrime over and over until
they're caught and put behindbars.
I learned the, this the hard wayas a baby detective, I got a guy
out of jail to work as aninformant on a drug case.

(01:00:55):
The guy was connected and I hada specific target.
What I didn't know, what Ididn't understand was this guy
was a fiend.
I get him out.
He immediately took off,immediately started a crime
spree.
Patrol officers are seeing myguy on surveillance videos and
are asking the question why thehell did he get out so fast?
It's me.
I got him out.
It was on me.

(01:01:16):
So I spent the next two weekstracking that guy down so I
could put him back in jail.

Marcy (01:01:20):
Okay, but how does this relate to bail reform?

Mark (01:01:23):
So a few years back, bail reform effort came along and
lawmakers embraced it.
For some the attraction wassaving on jail funding.
Others, stigmatize offenders pretrial.
That's what was attractive tothem.
I wasn't against the effort onsome low end, non violent
offenders, but this has toexclude the fiends.
Many of the bail reform effortsfailed a year or two after they

(01:01:45):
were enacted because of publicoutcry.
The problems, in my opinion,were the fiends.
In my jurisdiction, the effortwhich was made in the state law,
was repealed within a year ortwo.
And the problem here was thecitizens and businesses were
sometimes being re victimized bythe same offenders, same day,
after being released on low orno bail.

(01:02:06):
Or maybe the police had issued asummons after catching them,
And, they go right back intocrime.
In some more serious crimes,there were so many ankle monitor
inmates running around and thecontractors that were paid to
track them, they couldn'tthere's no one to hunt those
people down when they absconded.
So, these repeat offenderseventually get picked up on an

(01:02:27):
arrest warrant for violations ofthe conditions of release, but
they can do a lot of damage inthe interim.
And this is what this basicallywhat happened in this case, she
would have been eventually.
pick back up for cutting herankle monitor off.
But look what she did for bailreform to be successful.
There has to be a mechanism toidentify these kinds of
offenders are just going tocontinue crime sprees and

(01:02:49):
victimizations if they aren't injail.
We need to get all of thesepeople the drug fiends off the
street and keep them off thestreet I'm not against.
Rehabilitation efforts, But somepeople just don't, it's not
successful.
And you have a lot of peoplevictimized because of it.

Marcy (01:03:06):
So you're saying that based on what the police and
courts knew about Shabizna'srecent criminal convictions, she
should never have been let outeven with an ankle monitor.

Mark (01:03:15):
Yeah, exactly.
To bring this back to

Marcy (01:03:17):
to bring this back to Shad Therian, he was 24.
Shad was an artist.
He deserved to live a long andhappy life.
His family misses him very much.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review CrimeRaven on Apple Podcasts and tell

(01:03:39):
your friends about us.
Check out our website atcrimeraven.
com where you can find our merchand our email.
Crime Raven is hosted by MarkRyan and Marcy Ryan.
It's written and directed byMark Ryan and edited and
produced by Marcy Ryan and it'sa Three Little Birds LLC
production.