January 27, 2023 • 33 mins
Jonathon Lewis has spent his career organizing folks from marginalized communities to demand a greater voice in policy making. From working on the Obama campaign in Ohio to advocating for teachers and educational equality in his home state of Texas, Jonathon is now the National Training Director for CSSJ, where he works to provide survivors leaders with the tools to build a new movement of safety, justice, and healing. In this conversation, Jonathon talks about the lessons he's learned in his career as an organizer, what it's like to bring survivors to the capitol to speak with legislators for the first time, and the launch of CSSJ's brand new Leadership Academy, which will provide formal training for survivors who want to take their stories to legislators and the media, and help train other survivors back in their local chapters and communities. For anyone who wants to learn how to build healing through action, this episode is not to be missed.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episodeof "Crime Survivors Speak".
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 100,000 victims of crime
across the country.
To stay up-to-date on the latest episodes,
you can do that on YouTube,Apple Podcast, Spotify
and other streaming platforms
(00:21):
by clicking the link on yourscreen or going to the website
at www.cssj.org/podcast.
I'm so excited about today's conversation.
We're joined by someone wholoved the great state of Texas.
In fact, someone whohas extensive experience
as an organizer.
(00:42):
Across the country he's also served as
the National Training Director
for Crime Survivor for Safety and Justice.
Prior to joining CSSJ,
Jonathon was an advocate
for teachers and educationalequity in Louisiana
where he coached and provided strategies
for teachers and former teachers
to change education policieslocally and statewide.
(01:05):
Jonathon has also worked asa progressive policy advocate
in Washington DC and was thedeputy youth vote director
with the Obama campaign in Ohio.
So we got a lot to cover with Jonathon
about his organizing andhis advocacy experience.
So thank you so much forbeing with us today, Jonathon.
Thank you, thank you for having me.
(01:27):
Cool, so let's dive into it.
So Jonathon, to begin, tell us about
what inspired you to pursue a career
in organizing in advocacy.
Yeah, great question.
So I started in my collegiate year.
I remember going to SamHouston State University
where I became a member of NAACP
(01:51):
and honestly, I didn't knowwhat I was getting into.
I remember just seeing abunch of people around campus
wearing these NAACP T-shirts
and I said, "Man, Iwanna be a part of that,"
which led me to joinone Thursday afternoon.
And from there, that wasa part of my advocacy
organizing efforts that started.
(02:12):
And interesting enough,
that was around the same time that
the election was happening in 2008.
And so, that was a lot oforganizing taking place
on campus through NAACP.
Little did I know thatthat will be the time
I would get super-involved byjoining on the state level,
joining on a national leveland the regional level.
(02:33):
And that just took offmy career in organizing
in issue campaigns.
And so, I remember just becominga youth state president.
I was a officer on my college campus
as the financial secretary.
I remember being the treasurer
and then I was this youth state president
for our youth and collegedivision in Texas.
And then being hired on
(02:55):
for the National Office in Baltimore,
which led me to to move to the east coast.
And so, right after undergrad
I started doing just issue-basedcampaigns through NAACP,
but not only that, evenin Texas, through NAACP
we did a lot of issue-based campaigns.
Like one, textbooks.
We had a moment where thestate of Texas was planning to
(03:18):
eliminate certain history outta textbooks,
which is coming full circle now,
where they're talkingabout that once again.
In addition to that, we weredoing voting midterm elections,
making sure people turned out to vote,
getting pledges as wellfor people to vote.
And so, that jump-startedmy career and organizing,
doing advocacy, and that led my heart
(03:40):
and saw the impact thatit had on community,
that it had on my community
and people who justwanted to be connected,
who wanted more information.
So from there, there was a journey
of just always doing advocacy,
doing issue-based campaigns,and then electoral campaigns.
So that was my jumpstart.
Just amazing, a great experience
coming out of grad school,
(04:00):
doing issue educationcampaigns, organizing,
electoral advocacy, andworking on those campaigns.
And also you mentionedyour work at the NAACP.
How did you find out about
Crime Survivors For Safety and Justice?
Yeah, interesting story.
So interesting, come full circle.
So I'm hired on to work forNAACP in Baltimore or Maryland.
(04:25):
So I moved to the East Coast
two months aftergraduating from undergrad.
And I remember justwalking around the office,
just meeting people for the first time,
and particularly ourcriminal justice director,
which was Robert Rooks.
And so, I just rememberjust always trying to see
what Robert was doing,
because my undergrad majorwas criminal justice.
(04:45):
And so meeting Robert, we workedon some campaigns together,
particularly our Troy Davis campaign,
and that led us to drawcloser and work together.
Eventually, I kept tryingto get into Robert's team
and Robert ended up leavingand moving to California
for a greater opportunity.
And so, eight years later,
Robert and I connected back
(05:06):
at NAACP National Convention in Baltimore
and they had a former staff reception.
And I ended up talking toRobert for a little bit,
who then started telling me about his work
that he was doing in the workthat they were building out
with Crime Survivors Safety and Justice
in the Alliance for Safety and Justice,
which interested enough,
he talked about you as well a lot
and was sharing likehe wanted us to connect
(05:28):
and that was the startingpoint of our connection.
And one day Robert call and was like,
"Hey, wanna offer you the job?"
And that was the start ofme getting involved with
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice
and been here now going onfive years, October 2nd.
Thank you for just one,trusting us as an organization
(05:49):
just to join the team
and just like that commonthread with Robert Rooks,
for those of you whodon't know Robert Rooks.
So Robert Rooks is the co-founder
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
also the co-founder of theAlliance for Safety and Justice.
And just like Jonathon,
I got my introduction to the organization
through Robert Rooks as well.
Jonathon, I remember theconversations that you and I had
(06:12):
before you were part of the organization
and I remember talkingwith you about the work
and a question that people ask me,
how did I get into the work?
And I often share myexperience as a survivor.
And I remember asking you that question,
have you ever been a survivor?
Have you ever been a victim of a crime?
And I think you shared that
(06:32):
you haven't thought about that as much,
or you may share thatmaybe I'm not a survivor,
but I remember,
I think it was probablya few days after you came
to that realizationthat you was a survivor.
Can you talk about yourexperience as a survivor?
Yeah, interesting enoughthat you asked me that.
So you and Robert bothasked me that question.
I remember just saying,"No, I'm not a survivor."
(06:53):
When I think about survivors,I thought about SVU,
of watching "Law & Order".
And so, I remember you,
you shared just a bunch ofmaterial with me via email.
And I remember goingthrough the information
and reading this and thinking to myself,
"Oh, I am a crime survivor,"
but in my community,
that's not often what we callourselves or how we identify.
(07:15):
And I remember just thinkingabout every incident
where I've been a victim of a crime,
one, starting with me and my best friend
walking in our community
and just four blocks frommy house being robbed,
thinking that I was gonna die
and that this where myparents would find me
four blocks from my house.
Another incident whereI was in the barbershop
at an even younger age, me and my brother
(07:36):
and two guys were in there.
They literally tried to rob the barber,
but not only did they try to rob him,
they literally shot the gun at him
and me sitting there havingto be a seven-year-old
trying to identify theseindividuals to the police,
but even in those incidents
and never offered any type of services,
(07:56):
never thought about meidentifying as a crime victim.
And so, it was those incidentsalone where I had experienced
those things with the whole array of other
crime victim experiences I hadexperienced in my community.
And so, those are two that just,
I remember telling you all about,
I actually am a crime victim
and never thought to connect the dots.
(08:17):
And so, those were thosemoments that connected me
to this work and that Ishare in my stories each day
when I'm connecting with crimevictims across the country.
Thank you for sharing at time,
many of us come to that realization
of being a survivor or evenbeing impacted by trauma.
So you joined Crimes Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
(08:38):
our membership have grown over the years.
That's a testament to yourleadership and this work as well.
But for the first, what yearor two of you joining us,
you've literally traveledthe entire country with me
helping to train survivorsto connect with other members
around this work.
I'm curious to hear from you,
what was that experience like for you
(08:58):
of going from doing issue education work,
equity education work, voter engagement
to now transitioning toorganizing survivors?
What was that experience likefor you traveling the country
and doing this type oforganizing with survivors?
What are some of the thingsthat you've noticed from
talking with survivors across the country?
(09:19):
Yeah, let me just say,
when we were travelingthe country together,
I had no idea what I was doing.
I could honestly say I justknew that I was coming to learn,
I was coming to a flyaround the country with you
and learn as much as I can.
And I totally appreciatethat whole moment,
me being able to follow you,
(09:40):
listen to what you weredoing and soak it all up.
And so, I can say today,
just seeing how we have built this out,
y'all's vision has been trulytransformational for me.
Just thinking about that.
And so, traveling withyou was, it was different.
It was in the sense of me like,
(10:00):
okay, I'm learning this butI'm not sure what's going on.
But not thinking about,
we're about to build somethingmassive across the country.
And I was in it, I saw it,
but I didn't really know at first.
But today, I can say that I am glad
I was a part of thejourney, I'm glad I'm here,
which is a testament tome staying here this long.
(10:20):
I have not been at any job no more than
two and a half years.
For me it's more sojust, I love this work,
I love y'all vision of what you all have
for Crime SurvivorsFor Safety and Justice.
And I love that we are doingsomething totally different
that most organizationsdon't do, never seen,
most people haven't even seen.
And so, just to be a part ofthis has been truly amazing
(10:43):
and inspiring to me.
You talk about the vision that we've had,
but now you're setting your own vision,
right through your leadership
as our national training director.
So now you are takingthe lead to facilitate
and lead trainers frommembers and understanding
our theory of change, our model,
the legislative andpolicy advocacy process
(11:05):
for survivors who are interestedin talking with legislators
or being trained or to telltheir stories in public spaces.
What are some of the keytakeaways that you try to teach
in your training ofsurvivors to develop them
as advocates and as leaders?
Yeah, honestly, most ofour survivors are leaders
within their own community.
(11:27):
And so, it is not hardto just identify them,
it's more so of just giving them the tools
that they never have.
And I'm fortunate that we are organization
that have the tools to give people
to actually just showcase their leadership
that they already had.
In addition to that,
I think that a lot ofpeople who are introduced
(11:48):
to doing advocacy workwith us is always amazed.
They're thinking aboutsafety, public safety,
totally different now.
And so, I'm happy thatmy vision to them is
I wanna train you on how to advocate,
how to talk to legislators,
how to just share your story in a way
(12:09):
that feels good to you.
And so, giving them those tools
and helping them throughthat process has been
just a tremendous blessing for me,
because oftentimes, as youand I have often shared,
we hear people all the time say,
"I've never been to the state capital,"
which is also can bemind-blowing sometimes for me,
but also just a humblingexperience to know
(12:32):
I have made a change in somebody's life,
a place that can be an houraway they've never been,
they've never been to alegislator office in the capital,
they've never been to the state capital.
They never see the otherpeople that come there
that advocate all the time.
So it is a great feeling, I love it.
Which now has turned me to think about
what is the division of trainings?
(12:53):
How do we take people to the next step
and the next level in this process?
So once they've gonethrough our three trainings
that we created, how dowe go to the next level?
You said something that is so important
for the survivors thatwe are working with,
and majority of 'em arein those communities
that are most harmed by violence
are those same communitythat are least supported
(13:15):
by the justice system.
And many of the survivorswho you are training
across the country, as you mentioned,
never been to the state capital before.
Even if that state capitalis 10 minutes away,
majority of survivors in our network
have never been to the capital,
especially to advocate for policies
around their own experience.
So we'll love to hear from you.
So you're training survivorsin their local communities,
(13:36):
you're training them to go to the capital
to meet with legislators as well.
So what goes into the process for you
of coordinating those legislative visits,
of identifying those survivorsto speak with legislators
and what goes through the process
of ensuring that survivorsaren't prepared enough
(13:57):
to empower them to tell theirstories with legislators?
I think about a couple of things
oftentimes in our communities,
particularly communities of color,
are crime survivors who'vehave experienced harm
and repeat harm, have no ideawhat does that even look like?
What to even say?
Is there a law that helped me
(14:18):
and what I'm dealing with right now?
And so, in preparing for those,
we have to go in and share with people
what's even possible first,
'cause people have beenoperating in a space of,
I have no idea what to say,
I don't even know if there'sa law that can help me
and what my victimization is.
And if it is a law, who do I talk to?
(14:39):
And so, preparing crimevictims for legislative visits
or advocacy training,there's a process where one,
I take them through who is yourlegislators in the community
at the state capital, shall I say?
Here's the information of what is possible
that we can see past, butnot only what's possible,
how does this affectyou and your community
(15:01):
as a crime survivor?
And oftentimes, we seepeople who are like,
"Wow, I wish I had this
when I had experienced my victimization."
We take it a step further, all right,
how do you share your story?
Let's practice that,
because sharing yourstory is so important,
which most legislators have never seen
or only seen probably one or two
or just a certain group of people.
(15:21):
And so, them sharing their story,
oftentimes, it's their first time,
it's their first time
sharing it with another crime survivors.
But that helped them in theprocess to understand that
I can share my story the bestway that feels good to me
and I can share my story with someone
who I know can change policythat helps me and my community.
(15:42):
So folks are being trainedin local communities,
trained how to one,
knowing who their legacy legislators are,
and who are the peoplethey're gonna be meeting with,
training them around, sharing their story
as they walk into that legislator'soffice or that hearing.
So for you in doing this training,
what in your mind is the ideal outcome
(16:04):
of these legislative visitsand what are the outcomes
that you may want to a avoid as well?
Yeah, so the ideal outcomesthat I want people to get
is one, feeling safe, right?
Feeling safe to share their story,
feeling safe to go to the capital
and making sure that legislatorheard that person's story,
(16:27):
but also what they're asking for.
That is the biggest thing I push.
Please share your story,
but if you don't go in there without a ask
it's you are just meeting just to meet.
And we wanna see changein our communities.
So that is my biggest outcome.
My other outcome that Idon't often say is that
I want people to be comfortable to go back
without us collectivelyas an organization.
I want them to build thatrelationship on their own,
(16:49):
but I also want them to go back
and galvanize more andmore crime survivors
in their community to bring back to say,
"Hey, we got people who will listen to us
at the state capital,
our legislators who wevote in each election,
and they can changethe things that we need
in order to make sure ourcommunities are safer."
Oftentimes, I'm hopingthat they don't go in there
and experience a bad legislative meeting
(17:13):
or they don't go in there and ask for
what they actually want.
Those are my top twothings that I hope that
a crime survivor never have to experience.
Only because that canmake somebody feel like,
well, what's the purpose?
Why do I come back here if nothing happens
or if this person'snot gonna listen to me?
But oftentimes, it can be a thing where
people are actually fired upand energized by disrespect
(17:38):
and making sure they goout and move and organize
more crime survivors.
And that has happened before, right?
And what you just mentioned,I think people mightn't have
the best experience in alegacy legislative visits,
but the times when they come back and say,
"I'm more fired up than ever now,
I really want to make these changes,"
(17:59):
because of what so manysurvivors go through
of being disrespected, feelin disregard from legislators,
from law enforcement, fromfolks who are in power.
And I think when youthink about the training
that you've been doingover the past few years,
just like the impact we've had.
So since you've came onboardand joined our organization,
(18:19):
we've trained thousands ofleaders across the country
in understanding the legislative process,
understanding our model,
organizing, storytelling, communication.
Even with the COVID pandemic,
you've now started to train survivors
in understanding Zoom.
So we've trained thousandsof members across the country
and the impact that we've had so far,
which I think is thetestament to your leadership,
(18:42):
has been, we've passedover 50 legislative bills.
We've been able to helpmove about $1.3 billion
out of the justice systeminto more prevention,
more mental health, more trauma recovery.
We've in fact, we've launched40 trauma recovery centers,
we've passed just dozens ofreforms to remove barriers
(19:03):
to victim services andincreased access to services
and then reforms to helprehabilitate individuals
incarcerated and remove barrierswhen people are coming home
out of the justice system,
because of the training,
because of the advocates we've developed,
we've seen the impact inlegislatures across the country
(19:23):
of when survivors voices areat the center of policy-making,
that's when we can create safe communities
and we can make sure people heal as well.
I wanted to touch on twothings that you're building
for not only our organization,
but building for justcommunities and survivors
across the country.
So now you're building thisnew training curriculum,
(19:44):
the tagline that you said, it's like,
we wanna build skills,we wanna build community
and wanna build power.
For folks who are listeningwho might be interested
in learning how to be
a skillful and effectiveorganizer or advocate,
what would you say are someof the guiding principles
for mobilizing peopletowards a common goal
(20:07):
like changing the justice system?
A lot of that has todo with just listening.
Most communities that has been impacted by
crime and violence, itstart with listening.
Oftentimes, we know crime victims
have experienced victimizationand no one listened to them.
And so, to be able toorganize those individuals,
you have to start by listening.
(20:28):
That's what makes a greatorganizer listening first,
asking that person what is the need?
'Cause the person's closest to the problem
have the solution, which we often say.
And so, through ourcurriculums that we have,
we are developing and havedeveloped at this point
a skill of listening,learning how to listen,
(20:48):
learning how to organize
other individuals through listening.
Like how does your listeningbecome your superpower?
Not to become thatperson who does the work
for that individual,
but allowing those individualsor crime survivors,
shall I say, to be theleaders, be their own leader.
They have their own storythat they wanna share,
they can organize other crimevictims in their community.
(21:08):
And so, those are some of the skills
and some of the powerin building community
that we say in our taglineof what we're moving towards.
My vision now is we havebeen training people
for the past four years.
Now let's move intowhat are other trainers
that can help ourmembers, even new members,
(21:31):
existing members that cantake them to the next level
in this work.
So if I'm no longerhere today or tomorrow,
this is something that willforever stand with them
and that they can continue toorganize in their community.
So build the skill, buildcommunity and build power
is the next evolution of our work
(21:51):
at Crimes Survivors Safety and Justice
into just the trainingand leadership development
that Jonathon is leading out there.
So if you're interested in joining CSSJ,
go to our website rightnow and become a member.
One thing that we do offer asa organization to our members
are these free trainings.
To build those skills tobuild a community of survivors
and to build power as well.
(22:13):
So Jonathon, so that's the new curriculum
that you're developing,
which some will be led by our staff
also is a train the trainer model as well.
We're gonna train leadersto take this curriculum
and also train more membersto kind of really build
that base of survivors andadvocates across the country.
The second thing thatyou are also working on,
as our national training directly,
(22:34):
you work directly notonly with our members,
but you also work withour staff to help them
become more effective advocates.
And I know you're in aprocess of developing
a new Leadership Academy training program
to help build that new pipelineof leaders who can help win
safety priorities in our state.
Can you talk a little bit about
the Leadership Academy trainingand what are your goals
(22:57):
for this Leadership Academy training?
I'm glad you asked me
'cause this is one thingI'm super-excited about
and just to give background about
what is the LeadershipAcademy and my thought process
of what the Leadership Academy is,
what it was intended for is
we know there's a numberof leaders within chapters,
our local chapters whoare contributing every day
(23:18):
in different ways to make sure the chapter
is flowing or functioning better.
And so, what we wanted to do
through our Leadership Academy was
well what are the skillsthat this individual may need
to make sure we create greatgatherings, great meetings,
but how do we make sure that this person
or these individuals can makesure the chapter keep going
(23:40):
if something was to happen
or to eventually become thenext leader within that chapter.
And so, I'm excited aboutthat because as you mentioned,
we're training the next group of leaders.
And what makes me so happy isthat as I was talking through
the curriculum for the Leadership Academy,
we essentially just set it up to where
at the end I won't give too much,
(24:00):
because I want peopleto be excited about it
when we come to their state,
essentially we're gonnagive them some materials
and they basically have tocreate a great chapter meeting
or a great gathering rightwithin their chapter.
And they can be mostcreative way possible,
whether that's dancing, singing, however.
So I'm giving you some little hints
of what we're looking for,
but how do they make sure achapter meeting is so great
(24:23):
that people wanna come back,
that it draw more people to that chapter?
Essentially, it's almost like church.
If you go to church,if your church is dead,
people are not gonna come.
But what are the thingsthat you're putting in place
to make sure your leadership is good
that more people wanna cometo that church each Sunday?
And so, I go to church often,
so that was my referenceto how I'm looking at
(24:46):
how our gatherings are becoming more,
they're building morepower, building community,
more people are coming.
And so, those are some ofthe things that we hope
people will get out ofthe Leadership Academy.
And so yeah, I'm excited about it.
That's pretty cool.
So not only are we just trainingfolks to go to the capital
and to talk with the media,
(25:08):
but also just training peopleon how to build that community
in their local neighborhoods,in their local communities.
I think that is so importantfor so many survivors.
Now we often feel alone,
we often feel isolated andI think through our model,
the beauty when survivors come together
across victim experiences as well.
So excited for you to be kicking off
(25:28):
the Leadership Academyin the state of Florida
that I know you're gonna betraveling across the country
over these next few months.
You're gonna go to Texas
and you're going to goto California, Michigan,
Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania.
So you're gonna be developingthese pipeline of leaders
in states across the country.
Once again, if you are listening today,
become a member andthe opportunity for you
(25:49):
to not only get trainedbut potentially one day
join this Leadership Academy,
which is a two to three-day training.
We also will be training peopleliving with past convictions
as well as part of thisLeadership Academy,
which is a prettygroundbreaking and exciting.
Yeah, can I say something else to that?
Of course.
What comes to mind is thatwe do such great work,
(26:10):
of course on staff, butparticularly our members
who are doing the work eachyear, going to the capital,
doing press, talking to media,
we wanna make sure throughthese Leadership Academies that
we're building more leadersand they're being able to
make sure that that informationis disseminated back
into community to drive more people back
to chapter meetings.
(26:30):
Now, thank you for sharing that Jon
and it's all connected,
it's all connected and it'skind of connected back to
your early experience.
And so, curious to hear from you
what did you learn from yourprevious work in politics
and how did it feel to bepart of that massive effort
around President Obama'scampaign a few years ago?
(26:52):
Yeah, that was my first electoral campaign
that I had worked on.
I was in the state of Ohio.
And so, that was a huge deal,'cause it was a swing state.
And because PresidentObama had won in 2008,
the goal was for him to win again in 2012.
And so, the pressure wason in the state of Ohio,
because that was a key state for us.
(27:14):
And I'll never forget,
I didn't know how bigthe campaign was in Ohio
until we had a all-statewidemeeting in Columbus.
We went to the ConventionCenter, that's how big it was.
And there was almost athousand staff alone working
in the state of Ohio thatdidn't include the volunteers
who were knocking doors every day.
(27:35):
So that was telling to me
the impact that I was makingand all these other individuals
was super-important.
And so, it felt good for me,
'cause I know I hadknocked on a lot of doors,
but one thing I really did was,
which I'll never forget towards the end,
I was coordinating transportation with
local bus companies orchurches who had vans
(27:57):
and literally people were calling
who wanted a ride to the poll.
This was before Uber and Lyft was out.
And those individuals wouldcall and I would set up time
for these churches or other companies
who lended their vehiclesto go pick up people
and literally take them to the poll.
That was a huge impact,
'cause I went on a ride along with one
and just listening tothose individuals share
(28:19):
why it was so important forthem to get out and vote,
why they had to go vote.
And so happy that we hadoffered that service,
that was forever lasting in my heart.
And so to this day, Istill have people in Ohio,
particularly Cleveland,
that I am still connected to on Facebook.
A lot of staff that didn't live in Ohio
that I'm still connected to.
So that was a lasting impact on my life
(28:41):
that I'll never forget.
And that's what it's about.
It's about organizingand building leadership.
If you are a survivor,
if you wanna join acommunity of survivors,
you want to potentially goto these amazing trainings
that we offer, join us right now,
go to the website at www.cssj.org
(29:01):
to become a member andyou'll get information
about upcoming trainingopportunities in your area,
which could be in person
or we also offer trainingopportunities online as well.
Jonathon, my last question for you
before we close today's episode,
you think about our chapters.
There are survivors in that room
around different victim experiences.
(29:23):
There are organizations in that room
that work on different issues.
And so, how do you inspirelarge groups of people
to work together?
And how do you also breakthrough any barriers
that might show up?
One thing that comes to mindis starting with one-on-one.
We say this over and over,
you've drilled this in a lot of our staff.
(29:46):
It's just a part of organizing
one-on-one meetings changes things.
One, because when you can have
a one-on-one meeting withsomeone, you know their why,
you know their self-interest,
you understand why they'reshowing up for that work,
and you can move andnavigate around that person
without causing tension,
versus when you don't havethose individual conversations,
(30:09):
you don't know why that person is there,
you don't know what moves that person,
what's their self-interest.
And so, you're justoperating in a space of
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do
and they should do what they wanna do
when it ultimately,
you both are trying toget to the same goal,
you just haven't talked about
how the two are organizations,
are individuals of thoseorganizations should work together.
(30:32):
And so, I often say for large groups,
it has to start with a sitdown of what's our why?
Why are you here?
Why are you doing this work?
Because then it humanizes the other person
on both sides.
You understand why they showup for this work every day
and why they go so hard.
So when they do something,you don't see it as a threat,
you see it as passion.
(30:53):
And oftentimes in our work,
I often don't have to say much,
because the members in thatroom are gonna just do it.
I spend most of my time listening.
We have members and leaders that show up
in a way that oftentimes Idon't have to say anything.
And just experienced this ina training in Philadelphia.
One individual came and she kept saying
(31:13):
how she do this work every day.
She do it every day, who are we?
Why we are doing this?
And I remember just sitting there
and just the members in the room
shared their stories, we openedup and shared our stories
and it literally shifted her whole mood.
And I remember when itshifted her whole mood,
she stayed for the entiremeeting versus leaving,
(31:35):
and she said she wasn'tgonna be there long.
She's like, "I'm gonnaleave. I won't stay long,
but we already do this."
And literally, becauseeveryone shared their story
of why they was in that room,she stayed the whole meeting,
she did most of the talking.
And so, it just starts withjust people sharing their why,
why they're there.
And then that creates
this group of people who work together,
because everyone know,I know I'm saying a lot,
(31:57):
but hopefully that resonatesfor people who are listening
and understand why one-on-onemeetings is so important.
And that can be in any realm of work.
So even your coworkers,
that makes a big differencein when you understanding
why people show up forthe work that they do.
One-on-ones, getting to know people,
getting to know theirwhy, and sharing stories,
(32:20):
to build that communityamongst each other,
which is so critical to allthe work that we are doing.
It's so critical to ourdaily lives as well.
Jonathon, just wanna thank you so much.
Thank you for your leadership with CSSJ.
Thank you for dedicatingthousands of hours
traveling this country,training survivors,
(32:40):
and for your vision inhelping to build out
this new curriculum training,the Leadership Academy
and your vision.
What you are doing is helpingto build the next pipeline
of leaders to win new safety for all.
So thank you so much,Jonathon, for joining us today.
Thank you.
And once again,
thank you so much toeveryone for listening
to today's episode.
(33:02):
A reminder that as Jonathon talked about,
it's important to get involvedin elections this year.
We are running our Heal to Vote campaign.
Go to our website, www.cssj.org/vote.
Join the Heal to Vote campaign.
Take the pledge,
mobilize other survivorsin your community.
Once again, if you want to become a member
(33:23):
of Crime Survivors for Safetyand Justice or our email list,
visit our website at www.cssj.org
to join the local chapter nearyou or our national network.
And you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcast, Spotify, andother streaming platforms.
Remember, we are healing through action.
(33:45):
And we know this every time,
is that when survivorsspeak, change happens.
(upbeat music)
Welcome to this week's episodeof "Crime Survivors Speak".
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 100,000 victims of crime
across the country.
To stay up-to-date on the latest episodes,
you can do that on YouTube,Apple Podcast, Spotify
and other streaming platforms
(00:21):
by clicking the link on yourscreen or going to the website
at www.cssj.org/podcast.
I'm so excited about today's conversation.
We're joined by someone wholoved the great state of Texas.
In fact, someone whohas extensive experience
as an organizer.
(00:42):
Across the country he's also served as
the National Training Director
for Crime Survivor for Safety and Justice.
Prior to joining CSSJ,
Jonathon was an advocate
for teachers and educationalequity in Louisiana
where he coached and provided strategies
for teachers and former teachers
to change education policieslocally and statewide.
(01:05):
Jonathon has also worked asa progressive policy advocate
in Washington DC and was thedeputy youth vote director
with the Obama campaign in Ohio.
So we got a lot to cover with Jonathon
about his organizing andhis advocacy experience.
So thank you so much forbeing with us today, Jonathon.
Thank you, thank you for having me.
(01:27):
Cool, so let's dive into it.
So Jonathon, to begin, tell us about
what inspired you to pursue a career
in organizing in advocacy.
Yeah, great question.
So I started in my collegiate year.
I remember going to SamHouston State University
where I became a member of NAACP
(01:51):
and honestly, I didn't knowwhat I was getting into.
I remember just seeing abunch of people around campus
wearing these NAACP T-shirts
and I said, "Man, Iwanna be a part of that,"
which led me to joinone Thursday afternoon.
And from there, that wasa part of my advocacy
organizing efforts that started.
(02:12):
And interesting enough,
that was around the same time that
the election was happening in 2008.
And so, that was a lot oforganizing taking place
on campus through NAACP.
Little did I know thatthat will be the time
I would get super-involved byjoining on the state level,
joining on a national leveland the regional level.
(02:33):
And that just took offmy career in organizing
in issue campaigns.
And so, I remember just becominga youth state president.
I was a officer on my college campus
as the financial secretary.
I remember being the treasurer
and then I was this youth state president
for our youth and collegedivision in Texas.
And then being hired on
(02:55):
for the National Office in Baltimore,
which led me to to move to the east coast.
And so, right after undergrad
I started doing just issue-basedcampaigns through NAACP,
but not only that, evenin Texas, through NAACP
we did a lot of issue-based campaigns.
Like one, textbooks.
We had a moment where thestate of Texas was planning to
(03:18):
eliminate certain history outta textbooks,
which is coming full circle now,
where they're talkingabout that once again.
In addition to that, we weredoing voting midterm elections,
making sure people turned out to vote,
getting pledges as wellfor people to vote.
And so, that jump-startedmy career and organizing,
doing advocacy, and that led my heart
(03:40):
and saw the impact thatit had on community,
that it had on my community
and people who justwanted to be connected,
who wanted more information.
So from there, there was a journey
of just always doing advocacy,
doing issue-based campaigns,and then electoral campaigns.
So that was my jumpstart.
Just amazing, a great experience
coming out of grad school,
(04:00):
doing issue educationcampaigns, organizing,
electoral advocacy, andworking on those campaigns.
And also you mentionedyour work at the NAACP.
How did you find out about
Crime Survivors For Safety and Justice?
Yeah, interesting story.
So interesting, come full circle.
So I'm hired on to work forNAACP in Baltimore or Maryland.
(04:25):
So I moved to the East Coast
two months aftergraduating from undergrad.
And I remember justwalking around the office,
just meeting people for the first time,
and particularly ourcriminal justice director,
which was Robert Rooks.
And so, I just rememberjust always trying to see
what Robert was doing,
because my undergrad majorwas criminal justice.
(04:45):
And so meeting Robert, we workedon some campaigns together,
particularly our Troy Davis campaign,
and that led us to drawcloser and work together.
Eventually, I kept tryingto get into Robert's team
and Robert ended up leavingand moving to California
for a greater opportunity.
And so, eight years later,
Robert and I connected back
(05:06):
at NAACP National Convention in Baltimore
and they had a former staff reception.
And I ended up talking toRobert for a little bit,
who then started telling me about his work
that he was doing in the workthat they were building out
with Crime Survivors Safety and Justice
in the Alliance for Safety and Justice,
which interested enough,
he talked about you as well a lot
and was sharing likehe wanted us to connect
(05:28):
and that was the startingpoint of our connection.
And one day Robert call and was like,
"Hey, wanna offer you the job?"
And that was the start ofme getting involved with
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice
and been here now going onfive years, October 2nd.
Thank you for just one,trusting us as an organization
(05:49):
just to join the team
and just like that commonthread with Robert Rooks,
for those of you whodon't know Robert Rooks.
So Robert Rooks is the co-founder
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
also the co-founder of theAlliance for Safety and Justice.
And just like Jonathon,
I got my introduction to the organization
through Robert Rooks as well.
Jonathon, I remember theconversations that you and I had
(06:12):
before you were part of the organization
and I remember talkingwith you about the work
and a question that people ask me,
how did I get into the work?
And I often share myexperience as a survivor.
And I remember asking you that question,
have you ever been a survivor?
Have you ever been a victim of a crime?
And I think you shared that
(06:32):
you haven't thought about that as much,
or you may share thatmaybe I'm not a survivor,
but I remember,
I think it was probablya few days after you came
to that realizationthat you was a survivor.
Can you talk about yourexperience as a survivor?
Yeah, interesting enoughthat you asked me that.
So you and Robert bothasked me that question.
I remember just saying,"No, I'm not a survivor."
(06:53):
When I think about survivors,I thought about SVU,
of watching "Law & Order".
And so, I remember you,
you shared just a bunch ofmaterial with me via email.
And I remember goingthrough the information
and reading this and thinking to myself,
"Oh, I am a crime survivor,"
but in my community,
that's not often what we callourselves or how we identify.
(07:15):
And I remember just thinkingabout every incident
where I've been a victim of a crime,
one, starting with me and my best friend
walking in our community
and just four blocks frommy house being robbed,
thinking that I was gonna die
and that this where myparents would find me
four blocks from my house.
Another incident whereI was in the barbershop
at an even younger age, me and my brother
(07:36):
and two guys were in there.
They literally tried to rob the barber,
but not only did they try to rob him,
they literally shot the gun at him
and me sitting there havingto be a seven-year-old
trying to identify theseindividuals to the police,
but even in those incidents
and never offered any type of services,
(07:56):
never thought about meidentifying as a crime victim.
And so, it was those incidentsalone where I had experienced
those things with the whole array of other
crime victim experiences I hadexperienced in my community.
And so, those are two that just,
I remember telling you all about,
I actually am a crime victim
and never thought to connect the dots.
(08:17):
And so, those were thosemoments that connected me
to this work and that Ishare in my stories each day
when I'm connecting with crimevictims across the country.
Thank you for sharing at time,
many of us come to that realization
of being a survivor or evenbeing impacted by trauma.
So you joined Crimes Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
(08:38):
our membership have grown over the years.
That's a testament to yourleadership and this work as well.
But for the first, what yearor two of you joining us,
you've literally traveledthe entire country with me
helping to train survivorsto connect with other members
around this work.
I'm curious to hear from you,
what was that experience like for you
(08:58):
of going from doing issue education work,
equity education work, voter engagement
to now transitioning toorganizing survivors?
What was that experience likefor you traveling the country
and doing this type oforganizing with survivors?
What are some of the thingsthat you've noticed from
talking with survivors across the country?
(09:19):
Yeah, let me just say,
when we were travelingthe country together,
I had no idea what I was doing.
I could honestly say I justknew that I was coming to learn,
I was coming to a flyaround the country with you
and learn as much as I can.
And I totally appreciatethat whole moment,
me being able to follow you,
(09:40):
listen to what you weredoing and soak it all up.
And so, I can say today,
just seeing how we have built this out,
y'all's vision has been trulytransformational for me.
Just thinking about that.
And so, traveling withyou was, it was different.
It was in the sense of me like,
(10:00):
okay, I'm learning this butI'm not sure what's going on.
But not thinking about,
we're about to build somethingmassive across the country.
And I was in it, I saw it,
but I didn't really know at first.
But today, I can say that I am glad
I was a part of thejourney, I'm glad I'm here,
which is a testament tome staying here this long.
(10:20):
I have not been at any job no more than
two and a half years.
For me it's more sojust, I love this work,
I love y'all vision of what you all have
for Crime SurvivorsFor Safety and Justice.
And I love that we are doingsomething totally different
that most organizationsdon't do, never seen,
most people haven't even seen.
And so, just to be a part ofthis has been truly amazing
(10:43):
and inspiring to me.
You talk about the vision that we've had,
but now you're setting your own vision,
right through your leadership
as our national training director.
So now you are takingthe lead to facilitate
and lead trainers frommembers and understanding
our theory of change, our model,
the legislative andpolicy advocacy process
(11:05):
for survivors who are interestedin talking with legislators
or being trained or to telltheir stories in public spaces.
What are some of the keytakeaways that you try to teach
in your training ofsurvivors to develop them
as advocates and as leaders?
Yeah, honestly, most ofour survivors are leaders
within their own community.
(11:27):
And so, it is not hardto just identify them,
it's more so of just giving them the tools
that they never have.
And I'm fortunate that we are organization
that have the tools to give people
to actually just showcase their leadership
that they already had.
In addition to that,
I think that a lot ofpeople who are introduced
(11:48):
to doing advocacy workwith us is always amazed.
They're thinking aboutsafety, public safety,
totally different now.
And so, I'm happy thatmy vision to them is
I wanna train you on how to advocate,
how to talk to legislators,
how to just share your story in a way
(12:09):
that feels good to you.
And so, giving them those tools
and helping them throughthat process has been
just a tremendous blessing for me,
because oftentimes, as youand I have often shared,
we hear people all the time say,
"I've never been to the state capital,"
which is also can bemind-blowing sometimes for me,
but also just a humblingexperience to know
(12:32):
I have made a change in somebody's life,
a place that can be an houraway they've never been,
they've never been to alegislator office in the capital,
they've never been to the state capital.
They never see the otherpeople that come there
that advocate all the time.
So it is a great feeling, I love it.
Which now has turned me to think about
what is the division of trainings?
(12:53):
How do we take people to the next step
and the next level in this process?
So once they've gonethrough our three trainings
that we created, how dowe go to the next level?
You said something that is so important
for the survivors thatwe are working with,
and majority of 'em arein those communities
that are most harmed by violence
are those same communitythat are least supported
(13:15):
by the justice system.
And many of the survivorswho you are training
across the country, as you mentioned,
never been to the state capital before.
Even if that state capitalis 10 minutes away,
majority of survivors in our network
have never been to the capital,
especially to advocate for policies
around their own experience.
So we'll love to hear from you.
So you're training survivorsin their local communities,
(13:36):
you're training them to go to the capital
to meet with legislators as well.
So what goes into the process for you
of coordinating those legislative visits,
of identifying those survivorsto speak with legislators
and what goes through the process
of ensuring that survivorsaren't prepared enough
(13:57):
to empower them to tell theirstories with legislators?
I think about a couple of things
oftentimes in our communities,
particularly communities of color,
are crime survivors who'vehave experienced harm
and repeat harm, have no ideawhat does that even look like?
What to even say?
Is there a law that helped me
(14:18):
and what I'm dealing with right now?
And so, in preparing for those,
we have to go in and share with people
what's even possible first,
'cause people have beenoperating in a space of,
I have no idea what to say,
I don't even know if there'sa law that can help me
and what my victimization is.
And if it is a law, who do I talk to?
(14:39):
And so, preparing crimevictims for legislative visits
or advocacy training,there's a process where one,
I take them through who is yourlegislators in the community
at the state capital, shall I say?
Here's the information of what is possible
that we can see past, butnot only what's possible,
how does this affectyou and your community
(15:01):
as a crime survivor?
And oftentimes, we seepeople who are like,
"Wow, I wish I had this
when I had experienced my victimization."
We take it a step further, all right,
how do you share your story?
Let's practice that,
because sharing yourstory is so important,
which most legislators have never seen
or only seen probably one or two
or just a certain group of people.
(15:21):
And so, them sharing their story,
oftentimes, it's their first time,
it's their first time
sharing it with another crime survivors.
But that helped them in theprocess to understand that
I can share my story the bestway that feels good to me
and I can share my story with someone
who I know can change policythat helps me and my community.
(15:42):
So folks are being trainedin local communities,
trained how to one,
knowing who their legacy legislators are,
and who are the peoplethey're gonna be meeting with,
training them around, sharing their story
as they walk into that legislator'soffice or that hearing.
So for you in doing this training,
what in your mind is the ideal outcome
(16:04):
of these legislative visitsand what are the outcomes
that you may want to a avoid as well?
Yeah, so the ideal outcomesthat I want people to get
is one, feeling safe, right?
Feeling safe to share their story,
feeling safe to go to the capital
and making sure that legislatorheard that person's story,
(16:27):
but also what they're asking for.
That is the biggest thing I push.
Please share your story,
but if you don't go in there without a ask
it's you are just meeting just to meet.
And we wanna see changein our communities.
So that is my biggest outcome.
My other outcome that Idon't often say is that
I want people to be comfortable to go back
without us collectivelyas an organization.
I want them to build thatrelationship on their own,
(16:49):
but I also want them to go back
and galvanize more andmore crime survivors
in their community to bring back to say,
"Hey, we got people who will listen to us
at the state capital,
our legislators who wevote in each election,
and they can changethe things that we need
in order to make sure ourcommunities are safer."
Oftentimes, I'm hopingthat they don't go in there
and experience a bad legislative meeting
(17:13):
or they don't go in there and ask for
what they actually want.
Those are my top twothings that I hope that
a crime survivor never have to experience.
Only because that canmake somebody feel like,
well, what's the purpose?
Why do I come back here if nothing happens
or if this person'snot gonna listen to me?
But oftentimes, it can be a thing where
people are actually fired upand energized by disrespect
(17:38):
and making sure they goout and move and organize
more crime survivors.
And that has happened before, right?
And what you just mentioned,I think people mightn't have
the best experience in alegacy legislative visits,
but the times when they come back and say,
"I'm more fired up than ever now,
I really want to make these changes,"
(17:59):
because of what so manysurvivors go through
of being disrespected, feelin disregard from legislators,
from law enforcement, fromfolks who are in power.
And I think when youthink about the training
that you've been doingover the past few years,
just like the impact we've had.
So since you've came onboardand joined our organization,
(18:19):
we've trained thousands ofleaders across the country
in understanding the legislative process,
understanding our model,
organizing, storytelling, communication.
Even with the COVID pandemic,
you've now started to train survivors
in understanding Zoom.
So we've trained thousandsof members across the country
and the impact that we've had so far,
which I think is thetestament to your leadership,
(18:42):
has been, we've passedover 50 legislative bills.
We've been able to helpmove about $1.3 billion
out of the justice systeminto more prevention,
more mental health, more trauma recovery.
We've in fact, we've launched40 trauma recovery centers,
we've passed just dozens ofreforms to remove barriers
(19:03):
to victim services andincreased access to services
and then reforms to helprehabilitate individuals
incarcerated and remove barrierswhen people are coming home
out of the justice system,
because of the training,
because of the advocates we've developed,
we've seen the impact inlegislatures across the country
(19:23):
of when survivors voices areat the center of policy-making,
that's when we can create safe communities
and we can make sure people heal as well.
I wanted to touch on twothings that you're building
for not only our organization,
but building for justcommunities and survivors
across the country.
So now you're building thisnew training curriculum,
(19:44):
the tagline that you said, it's like,
we wanna build skills,we wanna build community
and wanna build power.
For folks who are listeningwho might be interested
in learning how to be
a skillful and effectiveorganizer or advocate,
what would you say are someof the guiding principles
for mobilizing peopletowards a common goal
(20:07):
like changing the justice system?
A lot of that has todo with just listening.
Most communities that has been impacted by
crime and violence, itstart with listening.
Oftentimes, we know crime victims
have experienced victimizationand no one listened to them.
And so, to be able toorganize those individuals,
you have to start by listening.
(20:28):
That's what makes a greatorganizer listening first,
asking that person what is the need?
'Cause the person's closest to the problem
have the solution, which we often say.
And so, through ourcurriculums that we have,
we are developing and havedeveloped at this point
a skill of listening,learning how to listen,
(20:48):
learning how to organize
other individuals through listening.
Like how does your listeningbecome your superpower?
Not to become thatperson who does the work
for that individual,
but allowing those individualsor crime survivors,
shall I say, to be theleaders, be their own leader.
They have their own storythat they wanna share,
they can organize other crimevictims in their community.
(21:08):
And so, those are some of the skills
and some of the powerin building community
that we say in our taglineof what we're moving towards.
My vision now is we havebeen training people
for the past four years.
Now let's move intowhat are other trainers
that can help ourmembers, even new members,
(21:31):
existing members that cantake them to the next level
in this work.
So if I'm no longerhere today or tomorrow,
this is something that willforever stand with them
and that they can continue toorganize in their community.
So build the skill, buildcommunity and build power
is the next evolution of our work
(21:51):
at Crimes Survivors Safety and Justice
into just the trainingand leadership development
that Jonathon is leading out there.
So if you're interested in joining CSSJ,
go to our website rightnow and become a member.
One thing that we do offer asa organization to our members
are these free trainings.
To build those skills tobuild a community of survivors
and to build power as well.
(22:13):
So Jonathon, so that's the new curriculum
that you're developing,
which some will be led by our staff
also is a train the trainer model as well.
We're gonna train leadersto take this curriculum
and also train more membersto kind of really build
that base of survivors andadvocates across the country.
The second thing thatyou are also working on,
as our national training directly,
(22:34):
you work directly notonly with our members,
but you also work withour staff to help them
become more effective advocates.
And I know you're in aprocess of developing
a new Leadership Academy training program
to help build that new pipelineof leaders who can help win
safety priorities in our state.
Can you talk a little bit about
the Leadership Academy trainingand what are your goals
(22:57):
for this Leadership Academy training?
I'm glad you asked me
'cause this is one thingI'm super-excited about
and just to give background about
what is the LeadershipAcademy and my thought process
of what the Leadership Academy is,
what it was intended for is
we know there's a numberof leaders within chapters,
our local chapters whoare contributing every day
(23:18):
in different ways to make sure the chapter
is flowing or functioning better.
And so, what we wanted to do
through our Leadership Academy was
well what are the skillsthat this individual may need
to make sure we create greatgatherings, great meetings,
but how do we make sure that this person
or these individuals can makesure the chapter keep going
(23:40):
if something was to happen
or to eventually become thenext leader within that chapter.
And so, I'm excited aboutthat because as you mentioned,
we're training the next group of leaders.
And what makes me so happy isthat as I was talking through
the curriculum for the Leadership Academy,
we essentially just set it up to where
at the end I won't give too much,
(24:00):
because I want peopleto be excited about it
when we come to their state,
essentially we're gonnagive them some materials
and they basically have tocreate a great chapter meeting
or a great gathering rightwithin their chapter.
And they can be mostcreative way possible,
whether that's dancing, singing, however.
So I'm giving you some little hints
of what we're looking for,
but how do they make sure achapter meeting is so great
(24:23):
that people wanna come back,
that it draw more people to that chapter?
Essentially, it's almost like church.
If you go to church,if your church is dead,
people are not gonna come.
But what are the thingsthat you're putting in place
to make sure your leadership is good
that more people wanna cometo that church each Sunday?
And so, I go to church often,
so that was my referenceto how I'm looking at
(24:46):
how our gatherings are becoming more,
they're building morepower, building community,
more people are coming.
And so, those are some ofthe things that we hope
people will get out ofthe Leadership Academy.
And so yeah, I'm excited about it.
That's pretty cool.
So not only are we just trainingfolks to go to the capital
and to talk with the media,
(25:08):
but also just training peopleon how to build that community
in their local neighborhoods,in their local communities.
I think that is so importantfor so many survivors.
Now we often feel alone,
we often feel isolated andI think through our model,
the beauty when survivors come together
across victim experiences as well.
So excited for you to be kicking off
(25:28):
the Leadership Academyin the state of Florida
that I know you're gonna betraveling across the country
over these next few months.
You're gonna go to Texas
and you're going to goto California, Michigan,
Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania.
So you're gonna be developingthese pipeline of leaders
in states across the country.
Once again, if you are listening today,
become a member andthe opportunity for you
(25:49):
to not only get trainedbut potentially one day
join this Leadership Academy,
which is a two to three-day training.
We also will be training peopleliving with past convictions
as well as part of thisLeadership Academy,
which is a prettygroundbreaking and exciting.
Yeah, can I say something else to that?
Of course.
What comes to mind is thatwe do such great work,
(26:10):
of course on staff, butparticularly our members
who are doing the work eachyear, going to the capital,
doing press, talking to media,
we wanna make sure throughthese Leadership Academies that
we're building more leadersand they're being able to
make sure that that informationis disseminated back
into community to drive more people back
to chapter meetings.
(26:30):
Now, thank you for sharing that Jon
and it's all connected,
it's all connected and it'skind of connected back to
your early experience.
And so, curious to hear from you
what did you learn from yourprevious work in politics
and how did it feel to bepart of that massive effort
around President Obama'scampaign a few years ago?
(26:52):
Yeah, that was my first electoral campaign
that I had worked on.
I was in the state of Ohio.
And so, that was a huge deal,'cause it was a swing state.
And because PresidentObama had won in 2008,
the goal was for him to win again in 2012.
And so, the pressure wason in the state of Ohio,
because that was a key state for us.
(27:14):
And I'll never forget,
I didn't know how bigthe campaign was in Ohio
until we had a all-statewidemeeting in Columbus.
We went to the ConventionCenter, that's how big it was.
And there was almost athousand staff alone working
in the state of Ohio thatdidn't include the volunteers
who were knocking doors every day.
(27:35):
So that was telling to me
the impact that I was makingand all these other individuals
was super-important.
And so, it felt good for me,
'cause I know I hadknocked on a lot of doors,
but one thing I really did was,
which I'll never forget towards the end,
I was coordinating transportation with
local bus companies orchurches who had vans
(27:57):
and literally people were calling
who wanted a ride to the poll.
This was before Uber and Lyft was out.
And those individuals wouldcall and I would set up time
for these churches or other companies
who lended their vehiclesto go pick up people
and literally take them to the poll.
That was a huge impact,
'cause I went on a ride along with one
and just listening tothose individuals share
(28:19):
why it was so important forthem to get out and vote,
why they had to go vote.
And so happy that we hadoffered that service,
that was forever lasting in my heart.
And so to this day, Istill have people in Ohio,
particularly Cleveland,
that I am still connected to on Facebook.
A lot of staff that didn't live in Ohio
that I'm still connected to.
So that was a lasting impact on my life
(28:41):
that I'll never forget.
And that's what it's about.
It's about organizingand building leadership.
If you are a survivor,
if you wanna join acommunity of survivors,
you want to potentially goto these amazing trainings
that we offer, join us right now,
go to the website at www.cssj.org
(29:01):
to become a member andyou'll get information
about upcoming trainingopportunities in your area,
which could be in person
or we also offer trainingopportunities online as well.
Jonathon, my last question for you
before we close today's episode,
you think about our chapters.
There are survivors in that room
around different victim experiences.
(29:23):
There are organizations in that room
that work on different issues.
And so, how do you inspirelarge groups of people
to work together?
And how do you also breakthrough any barriers
that might show up?
One thing that comes to mindis starting with one-on-one.
We say this over and over,
you've drilled this in a lot of our staff.
(29:46):
It's just a part of organizing
one-on-one meetings changes things.
One, because when you can have
a one-on-one meeting withsomeone, you know their why,
you know their self-interest,
you understand why they'reshowing up for that work,
and you can move andnavigate around that person
without causing tension,
versus when you don't havethose individual conversations,
(30:09):
you don't know why that person is there,
you don't know what moves that person,
what's their self-interest.
And so, you're justoperating in a space of
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do
and they should do what they wanna do
when it ultimately,
you both are trying toget to the same goal,
you just haven't talked about
how the two are organizations,
are individuals of thoseorganizations should work together.
(30:32):
And so, I often say for large groups,
it has to start with a sitdown of what's our why?
Why are you here?
Why are you doing this work?
Because then it humanizes the other person
on both sides.
You understand why they showup for this work every day
and why they go so hard.
So when they do something,you don't see it as a threat,
you see it as passion.
(30:53):
And oftentimes in our work,
I often don't have to say much,
because the members in thatroom are gonna just do it.
I spend most of my time listening.
We have members and leaders that show up
in a way that oftentimes Idon't have to say anything.
And just experienced this ina training in Philadelphia.
One individual came and she kept saying
(31:13):
how she do this work every day.
She do it every day, who are we?
Why we are doing this?
And I remember just sitting there
and just the members in the room
shared their stories, we openedup and shared our stories
and it literally shifted her whole mood.
And I remember when itshifted her whole mood,
she stayed for the entiremeeting versus leaving,
(31:35):
and she said she wasn'tgonna be there long.
She's like, "I'm gonnaleave. I won't stay long,
but we already do this."
And literally, becauseeveryone shared their story
of why they was in that room,she stayed the whole meeting,
she did most of the talking.
And so, it just starts withjust people sharing their why,
why they're there.
And then that creates
this group of people who work together,
because everyone know,I know I'm saying a lot,
(31:57):
but hopefully that resonatesfor people who are listening
and understand why one-on-onemeetings is so important.
And that can be in any realm of work.
So even your coworkers,
that makes a big differencein when you understanding
why people show up forthe work that they do.
One-on-ones, getting to know people,
getting to know theirwhy, and sharing stories,
(32:20):
to build that communityamongst each other,
which is so critical to allthe work that we are doing.
It's so critical to ourdaily lives as well.
Jonathon, just wanna thank you so much.
Thank you for your leadership with CSSJ.
Thank you for dedicatingthousands of hours
traveling this country,training survivors,
(32:40):
and for your vision inhelping to build out
this new curriculum training,the Leadership Academy
and your vision.
What you are doing is helpingto build the next pipeline
of leaders to win new safety for all.
So thank you so much,Jonathon, for joining us today.
Thank you.
And once again,
thank you so much toeveryone for listening
to today's episode.
(33:02):
A reminder that as Jonathon talked about,
it's important to get involvedin elections this year.
We are running our Heal to Vote campaign.
Go to our website, www.cssj.org/vote.
Join the Heal to Vote campaign.
Take the pledge,
mobilize other survivorsin your community.
Once again, if you want to become a member
(33:23):
of Crime Survivors for Safetyand Justice or our email list,
visit our website at www.cssj.org
to join the local chapter nearyou or our national network.
And you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcast, Spotify, andother streaming platforms.
Remember, we are healing through action.
(33:45):
And we know this every time,
is that when survivorsspeak, change happens.
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