November 20, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode, we sit down with Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick to discuss the need for restorative forms of justice that center healing for survivors. Rafiah shares how the tragic loss of her son inspired her to create Rodney’s Village, a nonprofit dedicated to preventing violence and supporting teenage parents. While reflecting on the power of storytelling as advocacy, Aswad and Rafiah recount a powerful moment they shared at this year’s March on Washington and explore how moments of solidarity fuel the fight for survivor-centered policies. Listen in to hear the moment Aswad announces an exciting milestone: CSSJ will be opening a new chapter in Rafiah’s home state of Tennessee to provide survivors with the support, services, and trainings to advocate for meaningful change. Join us for an inspiring conversation about resilience, community, and reimagining justice.
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Episode Transcript
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Aswad Thomas (00:01):
Welcome to Crime Survivors Speak podcast.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the national director of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a growing nationalnetwork, over 200,000 victims
of crime across the country.
If you haven't already subscribed to thepodcast, you can do that and stay up to
(00:21):
date on our latest episodes by going toYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and
other streaming services by clickingthe link on your screen or going to
the website at www.cssj.org/podcast.
Oh man.
One thing I love about this podcastis being able to talk to the amazing
(00:42):
survivor leaders across the country.
So today we are thrilled to welcomeRafiah Mohammad-McCormick to the podcast.
Rafiah is a dedicated victims advocatefrom Tennessee who's committed
to removing barriers to victimcompensation and also supporting
violence prevention initiatives as well.
Rafiah is so passionate aboutrestorative justice and also the power
(01:06):
of redemption to prevent future violenceand heal communities impacted by trauma.
Rafiah serves as the Director ofCommunity Outreach for Tennesseans
for Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
She's also the founder ofRodney's Village, a nonprofit
currently in its launch phase.
Additionally, Rafiah plays a vitalrole in Mothers Over Murder, a flagship
(01:30):
program of Nashville Peacemakers thatuplifts survivors of violent crime.
So we're excited to learn more about allof the amazing work that you do, Rafiah.
So welcome to the CrimeSurvivors Speak podcast.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: I'm so happy to be here. (01:43):
undefined
Aswad Thomas (01:44):
I'm so happy to have you on.
Let's dive into it.
To begin, I love for you to share how youfirst got involved with Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice and how has thecommunity supported you in Tennessee.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (02:00):
Definitely.
I first got involved with CSSJ,Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice, back in June of 2022.
Somebody had sent me a webinar thatI might be interested in watching
that you, Aswad, were hosting backthen and when I listened to that
webinar, I was just totally enthralled.
(02:23):
I had been sitting in circle with mygrief support group, Mothers Over Murder.
And I was applying for victimscompensation probably around 2021.
And I remember that a lot of themoms in our group had told me, don't
even waste my time trying to apply.
Everybody gets denied.
So when I heard about this webinar,when I listened to it, and heard about
(02:45):
the legislation that was being doneacross other states, I was so excited.
And at the same time,I found my community.
A lot of survivors of violentcrimes, specifically other mothers
that have lost their childrenhave not found that space of
restorative justice andfocusing on redemption.
(03:06):
And so I had felt likea unicorn at that time.
And so when I heard the webinarand read Aswad's story, I felt
like I had found my space.
Aswad Thomas (03:15):
Awesome.
You shared that you foundyour survivor community.
Would you tell us as much as you'recomfortable sharing about your survivor
story that led you to your victimadvocacy work, especially the critical
work you do around restorative justice.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (03:31):
I think I found that space toward redemption
and rehabilitation and restoration alot earlier than many survivors and
this might sound crazy but even thoughI lost my son so tragically, the
things that surrounded it made me feellike God set me on that trajectory.
(03:51):
But I lost Rodney July 9th of 2020.
It was in my own backyard.
I had just came home from work.
It was shortly after people werereturning to work after COVID.
We had just finishedbeautifying the backyard.
And so Rodney had a few friendsover to take a dip in the pool
(04:12):
and sit around the fire pit.
And when I came home, I was like,hey, y'all just keep it quiet.
I'm going to take a quick nap.
At that time, I did a lot of work globalmanufacturing, so I had clients across
the globe and sometimes I would be upat earliest 4 o'clock in the morning
and on the phone as late as midnighttalking to somebody overseas and so
(04:33):
I frequently would take a nap afterwork just to be prepared if I had some
stuff to do or meetings that night.
And I woke up to the gunshots.
jumped up, knew exactly whatthey were, even though I had not
heard gunfighter in many years.
living in the hood, but that hadbeen many decades ago, 25 years
(04:54):
ago, when Rodney was a little kid.
So, I hadn't heard gunshots in along time, but I knew what they were.
And I jumped up, ran into thebackyard, and separated Rodney from
the young person that shot him notrealizing that Rodney had been shot.
Didn't know what was going on.
Everybody else had fled from the backyard.
When I separated them,Rodney fell to the ground.
(05:18):
And when the young man reached down toretrieve his weapon is at that point when
I realized that Rodney had been shot.
My first instinct, of course, wasto cover Rodney up to make sure
that he didn't get shot again.
And at that moment, I locked eyeswith the boy that shot Rodney.
And I remember saying, please don't.
(05:41):
And I remember him, his response beingsomething, ma'am, with a look of remorse
before he fled through the backyard.
And even as we navigated the criminalproceedings for the next year that
look never left me, even throughmy anger at him, at the system, at
(06:03):
some points even wanting vengeance.
It was that look that never leftme and ultimately in dealing
with a system sentence that wefelt like we had no control over.
I requested a restorative pieceto be added into his sentence.
Restorative sentencing wasn'teven an option in our area.
(06:26):
So I had to convince, the districtattorney to accept the sentence.
I had to convince him to propose it tothe defense attorney because they had
already made their decision on whatsentence that they were going to agree on.
And the young man accepted the proposaldespite his defense attorney recommending
(06:50):
him not to accept it because what he didis ultimately put himself in a position
where an ally organization of minewould be part of his sentencing plan
and would be giving progress reportsto the people that was incarcerating
him as well as his parole officer.
Of course, you ask, whydid this happen to us?
(07:11):
The answer for me kept coming back thatI was supposed to do something with this.
That it didn't happen by accident.
so I've been focused on using my voiceto change that trajectory, change that
narrative for victims that feel thatthe value of their lives or their loved
(07:32):
one's lives is measured by how longthat sentence is for the person that has
harmed them and moving them away fromthat piece and instead looking at what
can we do to encourage that individualto give back what they've taken.
Aswad Thomas (07:49):
Thank you for sharing your process of forgiveness, knowing
the importance of rehabilitation, butalso recognizing the remorse in the
eyes of that young man and how thatreally helped you in some way, right?
(08:13):
And also in some wayhelped that young man.
And as you were talking, each episode I'malways reflecting on my own experiences.
And I remember that same experiencesof talking to my district attorney.
it was a teenager thatwas involved in my shoot.
And I remember asking the districtattorney if I could go talk to
that young man that had shot me.
(08:36):
And I remember the DA saying, no, we don'tallow our victims to talk to perpetrators.
And for me I just wanted totalk to that young man to see
what he was going through.
What led up to that shooting,but I also wanted to let him
know that I wasn't angry.
Right.
And I remember just thinking aboutand hearing from the DA how much time
(08:57):
that young man would be facing, whichis about 40 years or more in prison.
I remember going to the DA andasking them, repeatedly, if you
all can offer him a plea deal.
After me begging the DA to offer it tohim I think that's when my healing started
knowing that, that teenager wouldn'tbe sentenced to 40 years in prison.
(09:17):
And he ended up taking that plea deal.
He spent about nine yearsin prison for my shooting.
And that's what I wantedout of the justice system.
I wanted accountability.
For sure, but I also knew that I wantedthat young man to come home one day and to
be a productive member in society as well.
And I think when you talkto crime victims, we all
have different perspectives.
(09:38):
And we all want a better justicesystem, which will really
drive all of our work as well.
So many survivors like you, out of yourpain, your trauma, your, not getting
support, start amazing organizations.
Your organization Rodney's Village is suchan amazing tribute to your son's legacy.
(10:00):
Can you tell us more about thevision behind your nonprofit and
how it's helping to cultivatecommunity support for young parents?
And also what are some of the mostcritical skills or systems of support that
you think can break the cycle of violencethat you provide at Rodney's Village?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: Oh, yeah, definitely. (10:18):
undefined
The idea of Rodney's Village it cameabout shortly after his death when
I decided to retire from my careerand do something in the community.
The vision started there but I didn'tknow what I wanted to do with it.
I just knew that coming from my ownbackground in my career, we focused on
root cause analysis and problem solving.
(10:38):
And I could see that the things thatwere being done weren't working.
And so when I was thinking about whatI wanted to do at Rodney's Village,
I didn't just want to come up withsomething that just dealt with the
grief, or dealt with the aftermath.
I wanted to do something thatfocused on the potential root causes
(10:58):
of violence in our communities.
And our goal is to stop the violenceby cultivating the community.
We believe that begins with empoweringyoung parents, many of whom are
navigating parenthood withoutsufficient support or resources.
We see these young parents.
And I was a teenage parent.
(11:19):
Rodney was a product of a teenageparent and the young person that
killed Rodney was a teenage parent.
And so I looked at those commonalitiesand that became my focus with
Rodney's Village, that we focusedon those parents that were age 16
to 22 years old by equipping themwith the skills and resources that
they need to raise healthy families.
(11:39):
We want to help them break thosecycles of violence and basically
create safer and more supportivecommunities in our cohort format.
We have a 12 week program wherewe bring parents together.
We take 12 participants,which is six couples.
Now, they have to be ina relationship anymore.
We focus on teaching them how toparent in a healthy environment, how
(12:02):
to co parent in a healthy environment,encouraging them to form a support system
with the other members in the cohort,helping them with conflict resolution,
emotional intelligence, financialliteracy, and workforce development.
We try to foster those connections andencourage those young parents to support
each other because we believe thatcommunity care and collective growth are
(12:26):
what's essential to breaking the isolationthat often leads to destructive behaviors.
With Rodney's Village, we believethat focusing on healthy parenting, I
remember I used to cuss my kids out.
Something horrible.
I was a teenage parent.
I, even though I had good parents,my parents didn't cuss me out, I
was angry, you know, I was poor.
(12:47):
My parents was mad at me because Ihad got pregnant at an early age.
I was already feeling isolated.
And the first thing back then,this was in the era of beginning
to remove corporal punishment.
Can't hit your kids.
Man, our custom poll key isout so bad, it was horrible.
But we know now that diminishes ourchildren's value of who they are.
(13:08):
They also, it prevents them frombeing able to resolve conflict
appropriately, because it's a form oftoxicity and it's a form of violence.
Even though I had transformed mylife over the last 25 years and I
think the life of Rodney as well.
There's so much of that still out there.
So we talk about emotional intelligence,a lot of people confuse emotional IQ
(13:31):
with actual IQ, but a lot of individuals,they, no matter how smart they are, based
off of the things that they have dealtwith in their life and their inability
to process and comprehend also dictateshow they react to certain situations.
You ever find yourself talking tosomebody that should know better?
(13:52):
And you'd be like, okay, thisperson, they're a good student, for
the most part, what they used tosay, common sense ain't so common.
I think that's what we're talkingabout when we're talking about
Aswad Thomas (14:01):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: emotional intelligence. (14:01):
undefined
And if people don't know how to feedtheir kids, if they struggling to get
access to those resources they can't geta job or they have to get a mediocre job.
Both parents are working,who's raising our children.
I remember, as soon as my oldest wasold enough, I was leaving her at home
(14:22):
alone, with the rest of the kids, whileI worked because child care was so high.
And the community, we needto be supporting them.
Not only we want to incorporate thatvillage mentality inside this cohort,
but we want to instill in our communitiesthat this ain't a them problem.
This is an all of us problem.
And we need to be supporting theseyoung people to the best of our ability
(14:47):
to be able to raise their childrenin the best possible environment.
And to do that, they are goingto need support from all of us.
Aswad Thomas (14:55):
Organizations like Rodney's Village and the services that
you all provide, that is so importantto actually violence prevention, right?
When you're helping people get accessto the basic things that we need.
in life . When you give young parentswho deserve the support that they need
(15:15):
to raise healthy children all of thatis like forms of violence prevention.
It's how you stop the cycles of violenceSo the Alliance for Safety and Justice
and Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice, we do a lot of different
reports we survey victims of crimeacross the country and ask them questions
of what safety looks like, to them.
In September of this year, we releasedanother report called Crime Survivors
(15:38):
Speak 2024, and what made this reportunique because it was the largest
commission survey of violent crimevictims in the nation and asking them
what the safety looks like to them.
So some of the key findings we found fromthis report, we actually talked to victims
of violent crime by a three to one margin,victims believe that the most effective
(16:03):
way to reduce crime is to create more jobsand housing instead of long sentences.
In this report, more than two andthree victims believe that mental
health and addiction treatment orjob training and placement are more
effective strategies to stop repeatcrimes than long sentences, right?
(16:27):
By nearly two to one margin, victims ofviolence prefer investments in prevention.
Crisis assistance in communities over morespending on arrest and punishment as well.
And through your work in Tennessee,seeking out alternatives to justice
outside of the justice system'susual punitive approaches has been
(16:51):
an important part of your journey.
What do you think needs to happenfor more communities in Tennessee
and also across the country to adoptrestorative justice practices as a way
of addressing and preventing violence?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (17:06):
Thank you for asking that, and I do want to also thank
CSSJ for the resources that y'all providewith those type of manuals and surveys
because I use those when I'm speaking tolawmakers, when I'm speaking to people in
the community, when people need data tohelp them make the right decisions or at
least, buy into what you're talking about.
(17:26):
So I really appreciate them.
In Tennessee I'm in the Nashville area.
Nashville does now have juvenilerestorative justice practices
that are part of their juvenilejustice sentencing protocol not
as much focused on violent crimes.
I do believe they have done twomurders now, or two crimes that
(17:49):
resulted in a person's death.
We're trying to get them to a spaceof moving this into the adult system.
We got a ways to go.
You are so right.
The victims that are here oncethey're given that language, it's
nothing for them to buy into it.
There was a book,
Until We Reckon, where there was anexample saying, if you've only been
(18:11):
given this choice of hamburger, you'regonna think it's the greatest hamburger.
And for too long, they've only beengiven the choice of more policing, and
being told that policing is what willkeep them safe, but I think our victims
voices need to be the one to lead theway in changing that mindset around
justice, where it's focused on healingand restoration and preventing harm,
(18:32):
moving us from locking them up and tounderstanding that repairing the harm is
how we prevent it from happening again.
Education and awareness.
storytelling advocacy is oneof my main means of advocacy.
And so giving a platform for victimsto be able to share their story and be
(18:54):
able to be uplifted because once theystart to feel empowered, it also enables
them to start finding peace as well.
Of course, they need the opportunityto express how they have been impacted.
And like you said in the survey,most victims just want to be heard.
I want to be acknowledgedthat I have been harmed.
And then that way, we can, once we getthat part, then we can focus on what
(19:18):
needs to happen in order for them tofeel like the person has taken account.
We need to create a supportiveinfrastructure Like I said before if
victims know that those are the optionsthat are out there, they're going to
want to do restorative justice practices.
It allows you to be able to find peace.
(19:38):
It allows you to feel that how you'vebeen impacted or harmed or how your loved
one has been harmed was not all in vain.
You changed the life of thatperson that done harm to you.
Now I think.
One of the main things is that we havegot to be able to organize our victims and
(19:59):
our survivors to be able to be involvedwith policy reform and in communication
with their lawmakers and legislators.
And so that's one of the thingsI really love about CSSJ is
because a lot of victims didn'teven know that that's an option.
I always tell them, jokingly allthe time, I'm like, there is no
bars on the Capitol building.
(20:19):
You are allowed to go in.
And as much as possible, I try to takethem in that space, and being able to
do this victims compensation work wasa big way of allowing them to do that.
And many individuals who had never beeninside the Capitol building, had never
sat inside of a legislator's office,had never seen what hearings look like.
Understanding that your voice doesn'thave to just look like voting.
(20:43):
You can actually have a partof this legislative process.
I think that's very importantas well when we're talking about
adopting or restorative practices.
We have to do a betterjob of really showing how
restorative justice is working.
So that we can get thatcommunity buy in and that trust.
There are some players out there thatare unfortunately very tough on crime,
(21:11):
very pro guns all in our street that arestarting to treat terms like restorative
justice as like being the new woke.
And so we have to do a really good jobof showing and getting community buy
in that restorative practices work.
Showing them that it works.
Showing how those peopleare able to give back.
(21:31):
Showing how the recidivism rate is so low.
We've been able to show, for example,that organization that's been in
our Nashville juvenile system, theyhave like a 99 percent success rate.
Aswad Thomas (21:44):
Wow.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (21:46):
Those type of things, we just have to keep giving
them the platforms to move people awayfrom the attractiveness of retribution.
Aswad Thomas (21:54):
And like the solutions are there, right?
They're simple.
It's like helping victims,restorative justice, building strong
communities, investing in healing.
Helping people get accessto jobs and housing.
Like those are all of the evidence basedsolutions and programs that work, right?
So for a organization to have a 99 percentsuccess rate, how do we actually invest
(22:21):
in more of those types of programs?
Not only just for juveniles, butfor adults across the country.
But you also mentioned, yougave us a teaser there, right?
About the victim compensation, work.
So excited to hear more from you aboutthe role that you've played which has
been an important role in advocating forvictim compensation reforms in Tennessee.
(22:46):
What are some of the barriersthat you face or the families
who you work with face?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: Yeah, definitely. (22:49):
undefined
I think I alluded to earlier that whenI would sit in circle with these other
mothers, and there was about 25 of us,out of those 25 mothers, I think three
had got approved for victims compensation.
And so I'm like, wait a minute,that's 75 percent denial.
And so I went to go and look at our stats.
(23:10):
After I watched your webinar, I took ourvictims compensation, what we call it,
criminal injuries compensation policyhere in Tennessee, and I don't know
if you remember this, but I took itand I did like this little comparative
analysis like you do when you buy a car.
Aswad Thomas (23:26):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (23:27):
And identified these are legislation that we did
in each one of these states and thenhighlighted where in our criminal injuries
bill policy could we be able to make achange if we were able to change that
legislation inside of our own city.
CSSJ and ASJ, they all provideda resource of giving somebody
to help me with the research.
(23:48):
I don't know if I'm allowed toshout her out, but Andi Gentile.
She helped me.
We would be on the phone all the time.
She would lead me in the directionof how to pull that data from the DOJ
website that state data, and findingout that Tennessee had a 70 plus percent
denial rate of people who had actuallyapplied for victims compensation.
(24:13):
Finding out that 90 percentof victims don't even apply,
because they're discouraged.
And I was like, Oh my God.
The only thing that you have in placeis this reimbursement based policy.
Reimbursement.
Keyword reimbursement.
So I had to have some type of resourcesfirst to be able to pay for these
(24:33):
things and then I get reimbursed back.
And even with that, you'redenying 70 percent of us and that
was just not acceptable to me.
So we found out at thattime, we had 48 hours.
One of the things we were able tochange is moving us from being one
of the worst of the 50 states inregards to victims only having 48
hours to report a crime to police.
(24:55):
We were able to move that up to 14 days.
Aswad Thomas (24:57):
Wow.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (24:59):
We were also able to enhance eligibility
for funeral expense reimbursementsto extended family members.
In fact, it's in the policy.
Third degree of consanguination, which islike, great grandmother, uncles, cousins.
As we know, in marginalized communitiesthat are disproportionately impacted
by crime, a lot of those people aredependent on extended family members
(25:20):
to help them pay, and so now theycan get reimbursements when those
family members are paying out ofpocket to help with burial services.
We're also able to open upreimbursement for mental health
expenses to anyone in the householdof the person who was victimized.
We were able to educate our sponsorsand co sponsors that the people
(25:40):
inside the household are alsotraumatized when something happens
to an individual, whether they'rekilled or harmed in some other way.
That mentally impacts everybody inthe household, and so now they are
also able to get those reimbursements.
But we still got a lot of work to do.
One of the main issues inTennessee, as many of our
(26:02):
victims are denied compensationdue to this culpability piece.
I have a mother whose son was killed.
This is just an example.
He was sitting on the front porchand somebody down the street five
houses down was shooting up a house,but he gun with a switch on it.
(26:22):
And so he lost control of the weapon andher son was killed by a stray bullet.
Aswad Thomas (26:28):
Wah.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (26:29):
And she was denied compensation because they said that
her son was suspected of being in a gang.
And she went and got like 400 signaturesto say otherwise and still was denied
but when we're talking about language,and especially in communities that have
high police presence and a lot of policeinteraction, everybody that lives in
(26:53):
the neighborhood could have in theirfile suspected gang member or suspected
drug user or suspected drug dealer.
Anybody who has any type of contactwith the police could have that
ultimately in their police report.
And them being able to use thatto deny our victims support
with their expenses that they'veincurred is just, is disgraceful.
(27:16):
Also, especially when looking at theSurvivor Bill of Rights that CSSJ came
up with, it really fell in line with somethings that I'm hearing from a lot of
victims here is that, needing more timeoff work than normally, being able to
put something in place so that you're notdependent on employers that have a heart
(27:37):
because most likely, even if they have aheart, their bottom line says otherwise
or what they think is their bottom line.
They're not beingallowed time off of work.
They're not being able to say,hey, I just can't do this today.
You know, I'm traumatized.
I'm dealing with whatever andnot being forced to come in.
And also a big one that we findis most people cannot relocate.
(27:59):
Either due to not even having thefinancial resources to relocate,
but being able to get out of leases,without having to be dealing with
potential credit ramificationsand evictions on your record.
And that's a big deal,
that our survivors have to deal with.
So we still have a long way to gohopefully within the next year.
(28:22):
We're making some changes, and of course,we want to extend it past those 14 days.
We want to join the states who areable to just have that open ended
time frame.
Aswad Thomas (28:33):
Wow, that's amazing.
You know, you came to a webinar andthank you whoever shared that information
with you, and, learned about thework of CSSJ, and being part of this
community, and getting trained, and,as part of that, you changed victim
compensation in the state of Tennessee.
Which is amazing.
So congratulations to you, theorganization and all the survivors
(28:55):
and advocates that played a huge roleextending that time limit, getting
more family members opportunitiesto apply, being able to include
mental health as an expense.
That's huge.
As you talked about morework has to be done.
And I think you're also doing that work.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthese regional convenings that
you've been hosting to help educatepeople about this new law change?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (29:17):
Yeah, so as you remember the stat that I used
earlier of 90 percent of victims don'teven apply because they are either
unaware or discouraged from applying.
The organization that we did thisbill with is called Tennesseans for
Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
We honor life through theabolishment of the death penalty.
Our mission is to supportvictims and to focus on community
(29:40):
based violence prevention.
And so we were previously workingon legislative work for things
related to the death penalty.
And fortunately due to a moratorium onthe death penalty, it allowed us to focus
on some legislation in, in this area.
And so when this came up, it was aa fantastic way for us to be able
(30:00):
to bring more victims advocacyorganizations to the table.
A lot of the organizationsthat legislators use to be our
voices are organizations thatservice primarily white victims.
But a lot of your on the ground, inthe hood victims organizations, we
(30:21):
all get together in the church and cryand share our tears and, we march when
somebody else gets shot or killed.
We were able to bring thoseorganizations to the table.
And that was a big deal.
The next step was, after we passed thisbill, okay, now I got 90 percent of
people that don't even know about it.
How do we reach them?
We partnered with Tennesseans forAlternatives to the Death Penalty.
(30:44):
We were able to partner them with theorganization that has saved my life,
Mother's Over Murder.
They were able to come togetherand host this, we call it,
the Healed People Campaign.
So we're basically a tour.
that's going acrossTennessee to educate victims.
We kicked off in Memphis a couple ofmonths ago and we're going to be in
(31:08):
Chattanooga on November 14th and 15th.
And so day one of that conference,it looks like a victims workshop
where we have the directorsfrom the Treasury Department.
These are the individualswhere the criminal injuries
compensation policy is housed.
We have those individuals that areactually providing training to these
(31:28):
victims that probably would not havereceived these resources in any other
way, and they show them how to apply andwhat type of documentation is required
to be able to ensure they get approved.
In addition, they talk them throughwhat the appeals process looks
like if they are in fact denied.
But not only are we having thoseindividuals educate those victims,
(31:49):
but in the same time, we have a panelwhere those victims are speaking their
truths, talking about, the good andbad of what it looked like when they
applied for victims compensation.
So that's our way of using thesesurvivors and their stories to do
more work in informing our treasurydirectors and being more trauma informed.
we kicked it off in Memphis, becauseI was sitting in the legislation all
(32:13):
the time while we were working on thisvictims compensation bill, and I was
constantly hearing about these bills thatwere trying to be passed to over police
and over incarcerate our juveniles,um, coming up with more crimes that
they can charge juveniles and adults.
And I was like, what the heck?
And they kept using Memphis as thejustification behind this legislation.
(32:36):
And I was like, you know what?
It feels horrible.
Our voices are being hijacked and thepolicies that are being passed are
harming our children in our communities.
And the second day of the conferencewe call it Bringing the Calvary.
We are the Calvary, reimagining publicsafety, and here in this space, we
uplift the voices of our community basedviolence preventers and interveners,
(33:01):
and the work that they're doing,bringing them together in a collective.
Also, educating the communityon what does that look like?
What does public safety look likewhen you start to imagine it?
And there's an exercise that we dowhere we have them close their eyes
and envision what a neighborhoodlooks like when you feel safe.
(33:21):
And nobody ever answers that it'spolice riding up and down their streets.
We'll be ending that conference in 2025in Nashville and hopefully by that time,
we will have enough research and supportto be able to present some other bills
to the legislator and being able to kickoff the next session in Tennessee with
(33:45):
some more bills that support victims.
Aswad Thomas (33:47):
Healed people bringing in the cavalry.
When you actually bring together agovernment, survivors, community leaders
public safety, community violenceintervention, criminal justice reform
organizations to not only gather moreperspectives on these issues, but look at
(34:08):
what actually could happen as it relatesto re-imagining public safety and helping
survivors in preventing crime as well.
And so, you know, you talkabout the collaboration between
community and government.
I think it's incredible that you sawthe importance of not only passing the
law but making sure that people areeducated about it, hear from those in
(34:29):
the Department of Treasury on how toaccess the program, just once again,
I love having these conversationswith with individuals like you Rafiah.
That's really why we foundedour organization is really to
partner and uplift up leaderslike you across the country.
And as part of that, I'm still ona level 10 coming out of our Crime
(34:52):
Survivors Speak March on Washington.
And so September 23rd and 24th, wehosted a first ever Crime Survivors
Speak March on Washington bringingtogether thousands of survivors,
hundreds of organizations across thecountry to our nation's capital in D.C.
for a welcome reception whichwas beautiful, at Union Station.
(35:15):
I was blown away at how many people wasat that welcome reception that Monday,
which is also our travel day as well.
And then the following day we hosteda march, a rally at the National
Mall and at the Capitol and alsoamazing healing festival as well.
As we're planning the March on Washingtonevent I'm sitting next to Jonathan
Lewis, who's our managing director atCrime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
(35:37):
We're going over all thepartners and what states that's
committing and was coming to DC.
And I'm looking over the listand I said, I don't see Rafiah.
So I said, Jonathan, call Rafia.
So Jonathan picked up the phone and thiswas probably two weeks before the March
on Washington event, . We'd have no buses,no survivors from Tennessee currently part
(35:58):
of the event, but Rafiah we called youand said, Hey we're hosting this March
on Washington, uh, event, and we needyou to bring a hundred survivors, right?
Thought we were crazy
when we said that,
but Rafiah, man it was incredibleto see that, in less than two
weeks you've organized buses fromacross the state of Tennessee and
(36:20):
got survivors and organizations andadvocates to be part of the historic
Crime Survivors Speak March on Washington.
We'd love to hear, a little bit aboutwhat that day was like, for you and
the survivors that you brung to theevent and why was that important?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (36:36):
I do have to point out that the reason why Tennessee
wasn't on there, why I wasn't on there isbecause I wasn't in the organizing space,
I was in spaces of sharing my story andtalking to legislators and talking to
the 25 mothers that's in my group, but Ididn't have no big ginormous community.
I was like, I don't know if we're gonnabe able to get all these people, but
we went to the Memphis conference,
(36:57):
And so I said, to those people, I said,we're going to Washington, there's this
opportunity, I know this is late notice.
We got a week to sign up.
We got a week to sign up and we'renot talking about just signing up for
a bus trip, me and Juan Pablo wereon the phone every day, all day long.
(37:17):
Break of dawn to end of thenight, but they showed up.
We had about 70 people from Memphis.
We had 30 survivors from Nashville.
They were on high, they'restill calling me every day.
Statements like, I'm finally free.
I've been holding on tothis pain for 30 years.
I'm finally free, orwhat's our next steps?
When is CSSJ coming to Tennessee?
(37:39):
They are excited.
And we're not going to lose that momentum.
And this is one of the beautifulthings that we saw in DC.
It was predominantly victims of color.
Aswad Thomas (37:49):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (37:50):
And so when we're talking about uplifting these
voices of victims, we're talking aboutuplifting the voices of victims who are
disproportionately impacted by crime.
Those are the voices that shouldbe used to determine what the
appropriate legislation are.
And so they, whoo, they are excitedand it feels good for that excitement.
Thank you so much Man, that was God.
(38:11):
You calling, that was God.
All them people showing up was God.
We got there.
We showed out.
We only, it was only a hundredof us, but I swear, I think
we was the loudest out there.
Aswad Thomas (38:20):
Tennessee was definitely representing and he said only a hundred
while other states and other partnershad months of planning this event,
you all literally had two weeks.
And I think it's just a testamentto, who you are as a person.
And how you are justsuch an inspiring leader.
(38:40):
It wasn't surprising to us thatRafiah will be organizing the hundred
survivors and not only organizingthem, but getting them on that long
bus ride from Tennessee to be part ofthis amazing event in DC and you can
watch the event is on our website at
www.cssj.org to watch a replay of theevent if you weren't a part of that.
(39:01):
And, in the new year, hopefullyour Right to Heal B ill or, the
official name is Survivor Bill ofRights will be introduced as federal
legislation we're hoping in January.
So more to come on, the policy prioritiesthat we were calling on in D.C.
After we had that amazing Marchon Washington, I'm going to share
(39:22):
something that most people do not know.
I remember immediately after theevent was over, a mom came
up to me whose son was murdered.
She came up to me and she did notagree with what we were calling
for as part of our DC event andadvocating for prevention programs and
(39:46):
rehabilitation for people that cause harm.
And it was a very tough conversationfor me because I know what she's going
through and I agree that there needsto be accountability and justice.
And you were right there listening to theconversation and Rafiah you stepped in.
That meant so much for me for you tostep into that conversation, but I would
(40:08):
love to just hear, why did you stepin to support me in that conversation?
Why did you step in to provide yourperspective as another mother that
lost a child to violence and why are weadvocating for those types of policies?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: I could feel her pain. (40:22):
undefined
I was like, Oh my God, Ijust was called over there.
God just sent me to her as amother who had lost my own child.
And I tell people all the time, thisis not a pain marathon where we go try
(40:43):
to say who has lost the most or who'swas most horrific, but I do know that
not only losing my son, but holding myson while he told me that he was dying
sometimes gives me credibilityin people at the beginning of
their healing journey and have notbeen able to find that piece yet.
(41:05):
And so I felt called to atleast share those pieces with
her, then I stepped back.
I'm never going to force feed.
Finding peace is a journey.
Forgiveness is a journey.
And she needed to be heard.
She needed to feel heard.
You know, I only want to sharejust enough to not take away from
(41:31):
her being able to say her piece.
She's on my mind.
Every day I pray for her.
Aswad Thomas (41:35):
I thank you because I needed you in that moment 'cause
I saw her pain, her frustration.
I saw the need to get justice for her son.
For me doing this work across the countryand meeting with so many mothers and
parents that have lost children to gunviolence and meeting with other survivors,
(41:57):
that's the hardest part of this work thatwe do at Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice is meeting with survivors acrossmany different victim experiences that
don't have no justice, meeting with somany survivors that don't have any access
to healing are being denied but also beingdisregarded and disrespected for decades.
(42:20):
And I've been thinking about her.
Since that is one of the reasons whyI get up every day to do this work
for survivors and families like her.
So Rafiah, I just want to just thankyou for supporting me in that moment.
And you just don't know how muchthat meant to me to have you
there, not only to support me, butalso to support that mother as well.
(42:42):
And we send her love and support.
We also send her strength as she seekjustice for her child as we do for many
survivors across the country that'sgoing through that experience of losing a
loved one and getting no justice as well.
So the survivors in Tennesseeare like, what's next, right?
In our organization, how do you thinkTennessee would benefit from building a
(43:06):
statewide chapter of Crime Survivors forSafety and Justice, not only to support
survivors across the state, but reallyto build a network of survivors that
are engaging in organizing in advocacy?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (43:18):
We could definitely benefit for a chapter here.
They're ready to be uplifted.
They're ready to be engaged.
They want to show up.
And this gives them an opportunity toget a better way of being organized
and getting more information.
Like I said, a lot of times whenwe're talking about survivor groups
(43:38):
that are just on the ground, a lotof times those organizations are
started just out of somebody's pain.
I got pain.
I'm trying to heal.
I'm going to bring some more peopleand we're going to heal together.
But a lot of them don't havethe resources and the knowledge
yet on what that looks like.
Or they think that, getting involvedin legislative work and policy work and
(44:00):
organizing in those spaces is somethingthat is a big undertaking and this
allows them to be able to see it's not.
It's not.
I joke with Ms.
Clemmie all the time.
Ms.
Clemmie who is the CEO and founder ofMothers Over Murder Nashville Peacemakers.
Mothers Over Murder isher flagship program.
But she always joke all the time,they tried to get me to the statehouse
(44:20):
many years ago, and the only personthat can get me back here is Rafiah.
Oh my God, she was like, come in hereand talk to who, I ain't doing it.
And being able to bring them in there andsitting in the galleys and just seeing
how that process worked, having themspeak with legislators, I created, one
pagers, for them to be able to go in andtalk about what we were fighting for.
(44:43):
And those are things that they had noidea how to do, so I definitely think
that Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice not only could help them with
the ways of having that support, throughother people that are in community,
help prioritize healing, what thatrehabilitation looks like, peer support.
That's the best ways that you can putone foot in front of the other and be
(45:06):
able to see a light at the end of thetunnel from what you've gone through.
So, we are over here prayingthat CSSJ in Tennessee is
something that is up and coming.
I think it's definitely a good way for usto be a part of changing that narrative
that has been given to our victims voicesand saying these are the things we want
(45:27):
and us being able to say what we want.
Yes, we want crime to be addressed,that centers on those survivors
and the priorities of healing andthe prevention over punishment.
CSSJ in Tennessee could leadto landmark policy changes that
actually make our community safer.
(45:48):
So we're over here praying.
Aswad Thomas (45:50):
Your prayers have been answered.
I can say this now, Rafiah thatwe are, um, extremely excited to
partner with you all to bring CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice
to Tennessee and we have a goal.
Yes, we have a goal in mind tolaunch Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice Tennessee in March of 2025and so excited to work with you all.
(46:15):
Our team will be in touch with you andother leaders of what that will look like.
Which will include more training.
We're developing toolkits,resources, developing campaign
strategies, to use as templates.
But yes, we're excited and thank youfor helping us see what this volunteer
model of Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice looks like as a first step to
(46:38):
launch our model in more states as well.
It's been a pleasure getting to know youand just seeing your leadership impact
policies and laws related to crimevictims, policies and laws related to
the death penalty, related to violenceprevention, related to criminal justice
reform, related to helping young parents.
And my last question before we wrapup today's episode is what advice
(47:00):
would you give to others who may bestruggling to find purpose after tragedy,
or who will want to turn their paininto meaningful action like you have?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (47:11):
First off, don't rush the healing process.
Give yourself grace to grieve.
Acknowledge your feelings.
Find your people.
I was blessed that my bestfriend, unfortunately lost her
child right before I lost mine.
And so we've been ableto do this walk together.
But sharing our stories just reallyhelps you get through that time.
(47:34):
And it leads to you finding your voice.
What does that look like?
Don't feel like you got to go and justcome out with something that's a bang.
When we're talking about our lovedone, we feel like we got to go do
something that's like ginormous.
Start small, volunteering, writing,speaking out, those things will
lead to bigger changes over time.
(47:56):
And continuously, no matter whatalways focus on your healing.
Stay open to change.
What's your vision of how youfind your purpose may change.
I had no idea what Rodney's Villagewas going to look like when I first
had the vision of Rodney's Villagebut I took the last four years and
I've been in community, volunteering,speaking with other people to get an
(48:20):
idea of what that culminated to be.
Honoring your loved ones canbe through all kinds of ways.
It can be through advocacy work, itcan be through community service,
it can be through painting.
One of my old friends, I didn't knowshe had lost her son, but she reached
out to me yesterday she was an oldco-worker from many years back and, um,
she follows me on Facebook and reachedout to me last night about how she's
(48:43):
been following my story and that helpedher find her purpose through painting.
Just like there's the steps to grieving,there's the steps to forgiveness,
and there's the steps to findingyour purpose through your pain.
Thank you so much for having me here.
I appreciate that.
Aswad Thomas (48:59):
Of course, no, we, appreciate you.
I'm looking forward tous partnering together.
if you are out there listeningespecially if you are in Tennessee
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justiceis coming to your state in 2025.
We'll also support Rafiah's workat Rodney's Village which is
also part of Mothers Over Murderand also support Tennesseans for
Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
(49:21):
Rafiah, thank you so muchfor joining us here today.
I'm excited, uh, to continue to seethe amazing work that you are doing.
To all of our listeners, thankyou so much to everyone for
listening to today's episode.
To become a member of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice,
or join our email list, you canvisit the website at www.cssj.org.
(49:45):
Soon you will be able to sign up to becomea member of the Tennessee chapter as well.
So stay tuned about more updatesand where we're going to be
developing chapters in 2025.
Remember you can.
Tune into all podcast episodes onYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and other streaming platforms.
We are healing through actionand Rafiah, When Survivors Speak.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (50:09):
Change Happens.
Aswad Thomas (50:10):
There we go.
Thank you all so much.
Talk to y'all soon.
Welcome to Crime Survivors Speak podcast.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the national director of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a growing nationalnetwork, over 200,000 victims
of crime across the country.
If you haven't already subscribed to thepodcast, you can do that and stay up to
(00:21):
date on our latest episodes by going toYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and
other streaming services by clickingthe link on your screen or going to
the website at www.cssj.org/podcast.
Oh man.
One thing I love about this podcastis being able to talk to the amazing
(00:42):
survivor leaders across the country.
So today we are thrilled to welcomeRafiah Mohammad-McCormick to the podcast.
Rafiah is a dedicated victims advocatefrom Tennessee who's committed
to removing barriers to victimcompensation and also supporting
violence prevention initiatives as well.
Rafiah is so passionate aboutrestorative justice and also the power
(01:06):
of redemption to prevent future violenceand heal communities impacted by trauma.
Rafiah serves as the Director ofCommunity Outreach for Tennesseans
for Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
She's also the founder ofRodney's Village, a nonprofit
currently in its launch phase.
Additionally, Rafiah plays a vitalrole in Mothers Over Murder, a flagship
(01:30):
program of Nashville Peacemakers thatuplifts survivors of violent crime.
So we're excited to learn more about allof the amazing work that you do, Rafiah.
So welcome to the CrimeSurvivors Speak podcast.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: I'm so happy to be here. (01:43):
undefined
Aswad Thomas (01:44):
I'm so happy to have you on.
Let's dive into it.
To begin, I love for you to share how youfirst got involved with Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice and how has thecommunity supported you in Tennessee.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (02:00):
Definitely.
I first got involved with CSSJ,Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice, back in June of 2022.
Somebody had sent me a webinar thatI might be interested in watching
that you, Aswad, were hosting backthen and when I listened to that
webinar, I was just totally enthralled.
(02:23):
I had been sitting in circle with mygrief support group, Mothers Over Murder.
And I was applying for victimscompensation probably around 2021.
And I remember that a lot of themoms in our group had told me, don't
even waste my time trying to apply.
Everybody gets denied.
So when I heard about this webinar,when I listened to it, and heard about
(02:45):
the legislation that was being doneacross other states, I was so excited.
And at the same time,I found my community.
A lot of survivors of violentcrimes, specifically other mothers
that have lost their childrenhave not found that space of
restorative justice andfocusing on redemption.
(03:06):
And so I had felt likea unicorn at that time.
And so when I heard the webinarand read Aswad's story, I felt
like I had found my space.
Aswad Thomas (03:15):
Awesome.
You shared that you foundyour survivor community.
Would you tell us as much as you'recomfortable sharing about your survivor
story that led you to your victimadvocacy work, especially the critical
work you do around restorative justice.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (03:31):
I think I found that space toward redemption
and rehabilitation and restoration alot earlier than many survivors and
this might sound crazy but even thoughI lost my son so tragically, the
things that surrounded it made me feellike God set me on that trajectory.
(03:51):
But I lost Rodney July 9th of 2020.
It was in my own backyard.
I had just came home from work.
It was shortly after people werereturning to work after COVID.
We had just finishedbeautifying the backyard.
And so Rodney had a few friendsover to take a dip in the pool
(04:12):
and sit around the fire pit.
And when I came home, I was like,hey, y'all just keep it quiet.
I'm going to take a quick nap.
At that time, I did a lot of work globalmanufacturing, so I had clients across
the globe and sometimes I would be upat earliest 4 o'clock in the morning
and on the phone as late as midnighttalking to somebody overseas and so
(04:33):
I frequently would take a nap afterwork just to be prepared if I had some
stuff to do or meetings that night.
And I woke up to the gunshots.
jumped up, knew exactly whatthey were, even though I had not
heard gunfighter in many years.
living in the hood, but that hadbeen many decades ago, 25 years
(04:54):
ago, when Rodney was a little kid.
So, I hadn't heard gunshots in along time, but I knew what they were.
And I jumped up, ran into thebackyard, and separated Rodney from
the young person that shot him notrealizing that Rodney had been shot.
Didn't know what was going on.
Everybody else had fled from the backyard.
When I separated them,Rodney fell to the ground.
(05:18):
And when the young man reached down toretrieve his weapon is at that point when
I realized that Rodney had been shot.
My first instinct, of course, wasto cover Rodney up to make sure
that he didn't get shot again.
And at that moment, I locked eyeswith the boy that shot Rodney.
And I remember saying, please don't.
(05:41):
And I remember him, his response beingsomething, ma'am, with a look of remorse
before he fled through the backyard.
And even as we navigated the criminalproceedings for the next year that
look never left me, even throughmy anger at him, at the system, at
(06:03):
some points even wanting vengeance.
It was that look that never leftme and ultimately in dealing
with a system sentence that wefelt like we had no control over.
I requested a restorative pieceto be added into his sentence.
Restorative sentencing wasn'teven an option in our area.
(06:26):
So I had to convince, the districtattorney to accept the sentence.
I had to convince him to propose it tothe defense attorney because they had
already made their decision on whatsentence that they were going to agree on.
And the young man accepted the proposaldespite his defense attorney recommending
(06:50):
him not to accept it because what he didis ultimately put himself in a position
where an ally organization of minewould be part of his sentencing plan
and would be giving progress reportsto the people that was incarcerating
him as well as his parole officer.
Of course, you ask, whydid this happen to us?
(07:11):
The answer for me kept coming back thatI was supposed to do something with this.
That it didn't happen by accident.
so I've been focused on using my voiceto change that trajectory, change that
narrative for victims that feel thatthe value of their lives or their loved
(07:32):
one's lives is measured by how longthat sentence is for the person that has
harmed them and moving them away fromthat piece and instead looking at what
can we do to encourage that individualto give back what they've taken.
Aswad Thomas (07:49):
Thank you for sharing your process of forgiveness, knowing
the importance of rehabilitation, butalso recognizing the remorse in the
eyes of that young man and how thatreally helped you in some way, right?
(08:13):
And also in some wayhelped that young man.
And as you were talking, each episode I'malways reflecting on my own experiences.
And I remember that same experiencesof talking to my district attorney.
it was a teenager thatwas involved in my shoot.
And I remember asking the districtattorney if I could go talk to
that young man that had shot me.
(08:36):
And I remember the DA saying, no, we don'tallow our victims to talk to perpetrators.
And for me I just wanted totalk to that young man to see
what he was going through.
What led up to that shooting,but I also wanted to let him
know that I wasn't angry.
Right.
And I remember just thinking aboutand hearing from the DA how much time
(08:57):
that young man would be facing, whichis about 40 years or more in prison.
I remember going to the DA andasking them, repeatedly, if you
all can offer him a plea deal.
After me begging the DA to offer it tohim I think that's when my healing started
knowing that, that teenager wouldn'tbe sentenced to 40 years in prison.
(09:17):
And he ended up taking that plea deal.
He spent about nine yearsin prison for my shooting.
And that's what I wantedout of the justice system.
I wanted accountability.
For sure, but I also knew that I wantedthat young man to come home one day and to
be a productive member in society as well.
And I think when you talkto crime victims, we all
have different perspectives.
(09:38):
And we all want a better justicesystem, which will really
drive all of our work as well.
So many survivors like you, out of yourpain, your trauma, your, not getting
support, start amazing organizations.
Your organization Rodney's Village is suchan amazing tribute to your son's legacy.
(10:00):
Can you tell us more about thevision behind your nonprofit and
how it's helping to cultivatecommunity support for young parents?
And also what are some of the mostcritical skills or systems of support that
you think can break the cycle of violencethat you provide at Rodney's Village?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: Oh, yeah, definitely. (10:18):
undefined
The idea of Rodney's Village it cameabout shortly after his death when
I decided to retire from my careerand do something in the community.
The vision started there but I didn'tknow what I wanted to do with it.
I just knew that coming from my ownbackground in my career, we focused on
root cause analysis and problem solving.
(10:38):
And I could see that the things thatwere being done weren't working.
And so when I was thinking about whatI wanted to do at Rodney's Village,
I didn't just want to come up withsomething that just dealt with the
grief, or dealt with the aftermath.
I wanted to do something thatfocused on the potential root causes
(10:58):
of violence in our communities.
And our goal is to stop the violenceby cultivating the community.
We believe that begins with empoweringyoung parents, many of whom are
navigating parenthood withoutsufficient support or resources.
We see these young parents.
And I was a teenage parent.
(11:19):
Rodney was a product of a teenageparent and the young person that
killed Rodney was a teenage parent.
And so I looked at those commonalitiesand that became my focus with
Rodney's Village, that we focusedon those parents that were age 16
to 22 years old by equipping themwith the skills and resources that
they need to raise healthy families.
(11:39):
We want to help them break thosecycles of violence and basically
create safer and more supportivecommunities in our cohort format.
We have a 12 week program wherewe bring parents together.
We take 12 participants,which is six couples.
Now, they have to be ina relationship anymore.
We focus on teaching them how toparent in a healthy environment, how
(12:02):
to co parent in a healthy environment,encouraging them to form a support system
with the other members in the cohort,helping them with conflict resolution,
emotional intelligence, financialliteracy, and workforce development.
We try to foster those connections andencourage those young parents to support
each other because we believe thatcommunity care and collective growth are
(12:26):
what's essential to breaking the isolationthat often leads to destructive behaviors.
With Rodney's Village, we believethat focusing on healthy parenting, I
remember I used to cuss my kids out.
Something horrible.
I was a teenage parent.
I, even though I had good parents,my parents didn't cuss me out, I
was angry, you know, I was poor.
(12:47):
My parents was mad at me because Ihad got pregnant at an early age.
I was already feeling isolated.
And the first thing back then,this was in the era of beginning
to remove corporal punishment.
Can't hit your kids.
Man, our custom poll key isout so bad, it was horrible.
But we know now that diminishes ourchildren's value of who they are.
(13:08):
They also, it prevents them frombeing able to resolve conflict
appropriately, because it's a form oftoxicity and it's a form of violence.
Even though I had transformed mylife over the last 25 years and I
think the life of Rodney as well.
There's so much of that still out there.
So we talk about emotional intelligence,a lot of people confuse emotional IQ
(13:31):
with actual IQ, but a lot of individuals,they, no matter how smart they are, based
off of the things that they have dealtwith in their life and their inability
to process and comprehend also dictateshow they react to certain situations.
You ever find yourself talking tosomebody that should know better?
(13:52):
And you'd be like, okay, thisperson, they're a good student, for
the most part, what they used tosay, common sense ain't so common.
I think that's what we're talkingabout when we're talking about
Aswad Thomas (14:01):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: emotional intelligence. (14:01):
undefined
And if people don't know how to feedtheir kids, if they struggling to get
access to those resources they can't geta job or they have to get a mediocre job.
Both parents are working,who's raising our children.
I remember, as soon as my oldest wasold enough, I was leaving her at home
(14:22):
alone, with the rest of the kids, whileI worked because child care was so high.
And the community, we needto be supporting them.
Not only we want to incorporate thatvillage mentality inside this cohort,
but we want to instill in our communitiesthat this ain't a them problem.
This is an all of us problem.
And we need to be supporting theseyoung people to the best of our ability
(14:47):
to be able to raise their childrenin the best possible environment.
And to do that, they are goingto need support from all of us.
Aswad Thomas (14:55):
Organizations like Rodney's Village and the services that
you all provide, that is so importantto actually violence prevention, right?
When you're helping people get accessto the basic things that we need.
in life . When you give young parentswho deserve the support that they need
(15:15):
to raise healthy children all of thatis like forms of violence prevention.
It's how you stop the cycles of violenceSo the Alliance for Safety and Justice
and Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice, we do a lot of different
reports we survey victims of crimeacross the country and ask them questions
of what safety looks like, to them.
In September of this year, we releasedanother report called Crime Survivors
(15:38):
Speak 2024, and what made this reportunique because it was the largest
commission survey of violent crimevictims in the nation and asking them
what the safety looks like to them.
So some of the key findings we found fromthis report, we actually talked to victims
of violent crime by a three to one margin,victims believe that the most effective
(16:03):
way to reduce crime is to create more jobsand housing instead of long sentences.
In this report, more than two andthree victims believe that mental
health and addiction treatment orjob training and placement are more
effective strategies to stop repeatcrimes than long sentences, right?
(16:27):
By nearly two to one margin, victims ofviolence prefer investments in prevention.
Crisis assistance in communities over morespending on arrest and punishment as well.
And through your work in Tennessee,seeking out alternatives to justice
outside of the justice system'susual punitive approaches has been
(16:51):
an important part of your journey.
What do you think needs to happenfor more communities in Tennessee
and also across the country to adoptrestorative justice practices as a way
of addressing and preventing violence?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (17:06):
Thank you for asking that, and I do want to also thank
CSSJ for the resources that y'all providewith those type of manuals and surveys
because I use those when I'm speaking tolawmakers, when I'm speaking to people in
the community, when people need data tohelp them make the right decisions or at
least, buy into what you're talking about.
(17:26):
So I really appreciate them.
In Tennessee I'm in the Nashville area.
Nashville does now have juvenilerestorative justice practices
that are part of their juvenilejustice sentencing protocol not
as much focused on violent crimes.
I do believe they have done twomurders now, or two crimes that
(17:49):
resulted in a person's death.
We're trying to get them to a spaceof moving this into the adult system.
We got a ways to go.
You are so right.
The victims that are here oncethey're given that language, it's
nothing for them to buy into it.
There was a book,
Until We Reckon, where there was anexample saying, if you've only been
(18:11):
given this choice of hamburger, you'regonna think it's the greatest hamburger.
And for too long, they've only beengiven the choice of more policing, and
being told that policing is what willkeep them safe, but I think our victims
voices need to be the one to lead theway in changing that mindset around
justice, where it's focused on healingand restoration and preventing harm,
(18:32):
moving us from locking them up and tounderstanding that repairing the harm is
how we prevent it from happening again.
Education and awareness.
storytelling advocacy is oneof my main means of advocacy.
And so giving a platform for victimsto be able to share their story and be
(18:54):
able to be uplifted because once theystart to feel empowered, it also enables
them to start finding peace as well.
Of course, they need the opportunityto express how they have been impacted.
And like you said in the survey,most victims just want to be heard.
I want to be acknowledgedthat I have been harmed.
And then that way, we can, once we getthat part, then we can focus on what
(19:18):
needs to happen in order for them tofeel like the person has taken account.
We need to create a supportiveinfrastructure Like I said before if
victims know that those are the optionsthat are out there, they're going to
want to do restorative justice practices.
It allows you to be able to find peace.
(19:38):
It allows you to feel that how you'vebeen impacted or harmed or how your loved
one has been harmed was not all in vain.
You changed the life of thatperson that done harm to you.
Now I think.
One of the main things is that we havegot to be able to organize our victims and
(19:59):
our survivors to be able to be involvedwith policy reform and in communication
with their lawmakers and legislators.
And so that's one of the thingsI really love about CSSJ is
because a lot of victims didn'teven know that that's an option.
I always tell them, jokingly allthe time, I'm like, there is no
bars on the Capitol building.
(20:19):
You are allowed to go in.
And as much as possible, I try to takethem in that space, and being able to
do this victims compensation work wasa big way of allowing them to do that.
And many individuals who had never beeninside the Capitol building, had never
sat inside of a legislator's office,had never seen what hearings look like.
Understanding that your voice doesn'thave to just look like voting.
(20:43):
You can actually have a partof this legislative process.
I think that's very importantas well when we're talking about
adopting or restorative practices.
We have to do a betterjob of really showing how
restorative justice is working.
So that we can get thatcommunity buy in and that trust.
There are some players out there thatare unfortunately very tough on crime,
(21:11):
very pro guns all in our street that arestarting to treat terms like restorative
justice as like being the new woke.
And so we have to do a really good jobof showing and getting community buy
in that restorative practices work.
Showing them that it works.
Showing how those peopleare able to give back.
(21:31):
Showing how the recidivism rate is so low.
We've been able to show, for example,that organization that's been in
our Nashville juvenile system, theyhave like a 99 percent success rate.
Aswad Thomas (21:44):
Wow.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (21:46):
Those type of things, we just have to keep giving
them the platforms to move people awayfrom the attractiveness of retribution.
Aswad Thomas (21:54):
And like the solutions are there, right?
They're simple.
It's like helping victims,restorative justice, building strong
communities, investing in healing.
Helping people get accessto jobs and housing.
Like those are all of the evidence basedsolutions and programs that work, right?
So for a organization to have a 99 percentsuccess rate, how do we actually invest
(22:21):
in more of those types of programs?
Not only just for juveniles, butfor adults across the country.
But you also mentioned, yougave us a teaser there, right?
About the victim compensation, work.
So excited to hear more from you aboutthe role that you've played which has
been an important role in advocating forvictim compensation reforms in Tennessee.
(22:46):
What are some of the barriersthat you face or the families
who you work with face?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: Yeah, definitely. (22:49):
undefined
I think I alluded to earlier that whenI would sit in circle with these other
mothers, and there was about 25 of us,out of those 25 mothers, I think three
had got approved for victims compensation.
And so I'm like, wait a minute,that's 75 percent denial.
And so I went to go and look at our stats.
(23:10):
After I watched your webinar, I took ourvictims compensation, what we call it,
criminal injuries compensation policyhere in Tennessee, and I don't know
if you remember this, but I took itand I did like this little comparative
analysis like you do when you buy a car.
Aswad Thomas (23:26):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (23:27):
And identified these are legislation that we did
in each one of these states and thenhighlighted where in our criminal injuries
bill policy could we be able to make achange if we were able to change that
legislation inside of our own city.
CSSJ and ASJ, they all provideda resource of giving somebody
to help me with the research.
(23:48):
I don't know if I'm allowed toshout her out, but Andi Gentile.
She helped me.
We would be on the phone all the time.
She would lead me in the directionof how to pull that data from the DOJ
website that state data, and findingout that Tennessee had a 70 plus percent
denial rate of people who had actuallyapplied for victims compensation.
(24:13):
Finding out that 90 percentof victims don't even apply,
because they're discouraged.
And I was like, Oh my God.
The only thing that you have in placeis this reimbursement based policy.
Reimbursement.
Keyword reimbursement.
So I had to have some type of resourcesfirst to be able to pay for these
(24:33):
things and then I get reimbursed back.
And even with that, you'redenying 70 percent of us and that
was just not acceptable to me.
So we found out at thattime, we had 48 hours.
One of the things we were able tochange is moving us from being one
of the worst of the 50 states inregards to victims only having 48
hours to report a crime to police.
(24:55):
We were able to move that up to 14 days.
Aswad Thomas (24:57):
Wow.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (24:59):
We were also able to enhance eligibility
for funeral expense reimbursementsto extended family members.
In fact, it's in the policy.
Third degree of consanguination, which islike, great grandmother, uncles, cousins.
As we know, in marginalized communitiesthat are disproportionately impacted
by crime, a lot of those people aredependent on extended family members
(25:20):
to help them pay, and so now theycan get reimbursements when those
family members are paying out ofpocket to help with burial services.
We're also able to open upreimbursement for mental health
expenses to anyone in the householdof the person who was victimized.
We were able to educate our sponsorsand co sponsors that the people
(25:40):
inside the household are alsotraumatized when something happens
to an individual, whether they'rekilled or harmed in some other way.
That mentally impacts everybody inthe household, and so now they are
also able to get those reimbursements.
But we still got a lot of work to do.
One of the main issues inTennessee, as many of our
(26:02):
victims are denied compensationdue to this culpability piece.
I have a mother whose son was killed.
This is just an example.
He was sitting on the front porchand somebody down the street five
houses down was shooting up a house,but he gun with a switch on it.
(26:22):
And so he lost control of the weapon andher son was killed by a stray bullet.
Aswad Thomas (26:28):
Wah.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (26:29):
And she was denied compensation because they said that
her son was suspected of being in a gang.
And she went and got like 400 signaturesto say otherwise and still was denied
but when we're talking about language,and especially in communities that have
high police presence and a lot of policeinteraction, everybody that lives in
(26:53):
the neighborhood could have in theirfile suspected gang member or suspected
drug user or suspected drug dealer.
Anybody who has any type of contactwith the police could have that
ultimately in their police report.
And them being able to use thatto deny our victims support
with their expenses that they'veincurred is just, is disgraceful.
(27:16):
Also, especially when looking at theSurvivor Bill of Rights that CSSJ came
up with, it really fell in line with somethings that I'm hearing from a lot of
victims here is that, needing more timeoff work than normally, being able to
put something in place so that you're notdependent on employers that have a heart
(27:37):
because most likely, even if they have aheart, their bottom line says otherwise
or what they think is their bottom line.
They're not beingallowed time off of work.
They're not being able to say,hey, I just can't do this today.
You know, I'm traumatized.
I'm dealing with whatever andnot being forced to come in.
And also a big one that we findis most people cannot relocate.
(27:59):
Either due to not even having thefinancial resources to relocate,
but being able to get out of leases,without having to be dealing with
potential credit ramificationsand evictions on your record.
And that's a big deal,
that our survivors have to deal with.
So we still have a long way to gohopefully within the next year.
(28:22):
We're making some changes, and of course,we want to extend it past those 14 days.
We want to join the states who areable to just have that open ended
time frame.
Aswad Thomas (28:33):
Wow, that's amazing.
You know, you came to a webinar andthank you whoever shared that information
with you, and, learned about thework of CSSJ, and being part of this
community, and getting trained, and,as part of that, you changed victim
compensation in the state of Tennessee.
Which is amazing.
So congratulations to you, theorganization and all the survivors
(28:55):
and advocates that played a huge roleextending that time limit, getting
more family members opportunitiesto apply, being able to include
mental health as an expense.
That's huge.
As you talked about morework has to be done.
And I think you're also doing that work.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthese regional convenings that
you've been hosting to help educatepeople about this new law change?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (29:17):
Yeah, so as you remember the stat that I used
earlier of 90 percent of victims don'teven apply because they are either
unaware or discouraged from applying.
The organization that we did thisbill with is called Tennesseans for
Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
We honor life through theabolishment of the death penalty.
Our mission is to supportvictims and to focus on community
(29:40):
based violence prevention.
And so we were previously workingon legislative work for things
related to the death penalty.
And fortunately due to a moratorium onthe death penalty, it allowed us to focus
on some legislation in, in this area.
And so when this came up, it was aa fantastic way for us to be able
(30:00):
to bring more victims advocacyorganizations to the table.
A lot of the organizationsthat legislators use to be our
voices are organizations thatservice primarily white victims.
But a lot of your on the ground, inthe hood victims organizations, we
(30:21):
all get together in the church and cryand share our tears and, we march when
somebody else gets shot or killed.
We were able to bring thoseorganizations to the table.
And that was a big deal.
The next step was, after we passed thisbill, okay, now I got 90 percent of
people that don't even know about it.
How do we reach them?
We partnered with Tennesseans forAlternatives to the Death Penalty.
(30:44):
We were able to partner them with theorganization that has saved my life,
Mother's Over Murder.
They were able to come togetherand host this, we call it,
the Healed People Campaign.
So we're basically a tour.
that's going acrossTennessee to educate victims.
We kicked off in Memphis a couple ofmonths ago and we're going to be in
(31:08):
Chattanooga on November 14th and 15th.
And so day one of that conference,it looks like a victims workshop
where we have the directorsfrom the Treasury Department.
These are the individualswhere the criminal injuries
compensation policy is housed.
We have those individuals that areactually providing training to these
(31:28):
victims that probably would not havereceived these resources in any other
way, and they show them how to apply andwhat type of documentation is required
to be able to ensure they get approved.
In addition, they talk them throughwhat the appeals process looks
like if they are in fact denied.
But not only are we having thoseindividuals educate those victims,
(31:49):
but in the same time, we have a panelwhere those victims are speaking their
truths, talking about, the good andbad of what it looked like when they
applied for victims compensation.
So that's our way of using thesesurvivors and their stories to do
more work in informing our treasurydirectors and being more trauma informed.
we kicked it off in Memphis, becauseI was sitting in the legislation all
(32:13):
the time while we were working on thisvictims compensation bill, and I was
constantly hearing about these bills thatwere trying to be passed to over police
and over incarcerate our juveniles,um, coming up with more crimes that
they can charge juveniles and adults.
And I was like, what the heck?
And they kept using Memphis as thejustification behind this legislation.
(32:36):
And I was like, you know what?
It feels horrible.
Our voices are being hijacked and thepolicies that are being passed are
harming our children in our communities.
And the second day of the conferencewe call it Bringing the Calvary.
We are the Calvary, reimagining publicsafety, and here in this space, we
uplift the voices of our community basedviolence preventers and interveners,
(33:01):
and the work that they're doing,bringing them together in a collective.
Also, educating the communityon what does that look like?
What does public safety look likewhen you start to imagine it?
And there's an exercise that we dowhere we have them close their eyes
and envision what a neighborhoodlooks like when you feel safe.
(33:21):
And nobody ever answers that it'spolice riding up and down their streets.
We'll be ending that conference in 2025in Nashville and hopefully by that time,
we will have enough research and supportto be able to present some other bills
to the legislator and being able to kickoff the next session in Tennessee with
(33:45):
some more bills that support victims.
Aswad Thomas (33:47):
Healed people bringing in the cavalry.
When you actually bring together agovernment, survivors, community leaders
public safety, community violenceintervention, criminal justice reform
organizations to not only gather moreperspectives on these issues, but look at
(34:08):
what actually could happen as it relatesto re-imagining public safety and helping
survivors in preventing crime as well.
And so, you know, you talkabout the collaboration between
community and government.
I think it's incredible that you sawthe importance of not only passing the
law but making sure that people areeducated about it, hear from those in
(34:29):
the Department of Treasury on how toaccess the program, just once again,
I love having these conversationswith with individuals like you Rafiah.
That's really why we foundedour organization is really to
partner and uplift up leaderslike you across the country.
And as part of that, I'm still ona level 10 coming out of our Crime
(34:52):
Survivors Speak March on Washington.
And so September 23rd and 24th, wehosted a first ever Crime Survivors
Speak March on Washington bringingtogether thousands of survivors,
hundreds of organizations across thecountry to our nation's capital in D.C.
for a welcome reception whichwas beautiful, at Union Station.
(35:15):
I was blown away at how many people wasat that welcome reception that Monday,
which is also our travel day as well.
And then the following day we hosteda march, a rally at the National
Mall and at the Capitol and alsoamazing healing festival as well.
As we're planning the March on Washingtonevent I'm sitting next to Jonathan
Lewis, who's our managing director atCrime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
(35:37):
We're going over all thepartners and what states that's
committing and was coming to DC.
And I'm looking over the listand I said, I don't see Rafiah.
So I said, Jonathan, call Rafia.
So Jonathan picked up the phone and thiswas probably two weeks before the March
on Washington event, . We'd have no buses,no survivors from Tennessee currently part
(35:58):
of the event, but Rafiah we called youand said, Hey we're hosting this March
on Washington, uh, event, and we needyou to bring a hundred survivors, right?
Thought we were crazy
when we said that,
but Rafiah, man it was incredibleto see that, in less than two
weeks you've organized buses fromacross the state of Tennessee and
(36:20):
got survivors and organizations andadvocates to be part of the historic
Crime Survivors Speak March on Washington.
We'd love to hear, a little bit aboutwhat that day was like, for you and
the survivors that you brung to theevent and why was that important?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (36:36):
I do have to point out that the reason why Tennessee
wasn't on there, why I wasn't on there isbecause I wasn't in the organizing space,
I was in spaces of sharing my story andtalking to legislators and talking to
the 25 mothers that's in my group, but Ididn't have no big ginormous community.
I was like, I don't know if we're gonnabe able to get all these people, but
we went to the Memphis conference,
(36:57):
And so I said, to those people, I said,we're going to Washington, there's this
opportunity, I know this is late notice.
We got a week to sign up.
We got a week to sign up and we'renot talking about just signing up for
a bus trip, me and Juan Pablo wereon the phone every day, all day long.
(37:17):
Break of dawn to end of thenight, but they showed up.
We had about 70 people from Memphis.
We had 30 survivors from Nashville.
They were on high, they'restill calling me every day.
Statements like, I'm finally free.
I've been holding on tothis pain for 30 years.
I'm finally free, orwhat's our next steps?
When is CSSJ coming to Tennessee?
(37:39):
They are excited.
And we're not going to lose that momentum.
And this is one of the beautifulthings that we saw in DC.
It was predominantly victims of color.
Aswad Thomas (37:49):
Yep.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (37:50):
And so when we're talking about uplifting these
voices of victims, we're talking aboutuplifting the voices of victims who are
disproportionately impacted by crime.
Those are the voices that shouldbe used to determine what the
appropriate legislation are.
And so they, whoo, they are excitedand it feels good for that excitement.
Thank you so much Man, that was God.
(38:11):
You calling, that was God.
All them people showing up was God.
We got there.
We showed out.
We only, it was only a hundredof us, but I swear, I think
we was the loudest out there.
Aswad Thomas (38:20):
Tennessee was definitely representing and he said only a hundred
while other states and other partnershad months of planning this event,
you all literally had two weeks.
And I think it's just a testamentto, who you are as a person.
And how you are justsuch an inspiring leader.
(38:40):
It wasn't surprising to us thatRafiah will be organizing the hundred
survivors and not only organizingthem, but getting them on that long
bus ride from Tennessee to be part ofthis amazing event in DC and you can
watch the event is on our website at
www.cssj.org to watch a replay of theevent if you weren't a part of that.
(39:01):
And, in the new year, hopefullyour Right to Heal B ill or, the
official name is Survivor Bill ofRights will be introduced as federal
legislation we're hoping in January.
So more to come on, the policy prioritiesthat we were calling on in D.C.
After we had that amazing Marchon Washington, I'm going to share
(39:22):
something that most people do not know.
I remember immediately after theevent was over, a mom came
up to me whose son was murdered.
She came up to me and she did notagree with what we were calling
for as part of our DC event andadvocating for prevention programs and
(39:46):
rehabilitation for people that cause harm.
And it was a very tough conversationfor me because I know what she's going
through and I agree that there needsto be accountability and justice.
And you were right there listening to theconversation and Rafiah you stepped in.
That meant so much for me for you tostep into that conversation, but I would
(40:08):
love to just hear, why did you stepin to support me in that conversation?
Why did you step in to provide yourperspective as another mother that
lost a child to violence and why are weadvocating for those types of policies?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick: I could feel her pain. (40:22):
undefined
I was like, Oh my God, Ijust was called over there.
God just sent me to her as amother who had lost my own child.
And I tell people all the time, thisis not a pain marathon where we go try
(40:43):
to say who has lost the most or who'swas most horrific, but I do know that
not only losing my son, but holding myson while he told me that he was dying
sometimes gives me credibilityin people at the beginning of
their healing journey and have notbeen able to find that piece yet.
(41:05):
And so I felt called to atleast share those pieces with
her, then I stepped back.
I'm never going to force feed.
Finding peace is a journey.
Forgiveness is a journey.
And she needed to be heard.
She needed to feel heard.
You know, I only want to sharejust enough to not take away from
(41:31):
her being able to say her piece.
She's on my mind.
Every day I pray for her.
Aswad Thomas (41:35):
I thank you because I needed you in that moment 'cause
I saw her pain, her frustration.
I saw the need to get justice for her son.
For me doing this work across the countryand meeting with so many mothers and
parents that have lost children to gunviolence and meeting with other survivors,
(41:57):
that's the hardest part of this work thatwe do at Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice is meeting with survivors acrossmany different victim experiences that
don't have no justice, meeting with somany survivors that don't have any access
to healing are being denied but also beingdisregarded and disrespected for decades.
(42:20):
And I've been thinking about her.
Since that is one of the reasons whyI get up every day to do this work
for survivors and families like her.
So Rafiah, I just want to just thankyou for supporting me in that moment.
And you just don't know how muchthat meant to me to have you
there, not only to support me, butalso to support that mother as well.
(42:42):
And we send her love and support.
We also send her strength as she seekjustice for her child as we do for many
survivors across the country that'sgoing through that experience of losing a
loved one and getting no justice as well.
So the survivors in Tennesseeare like, what's next, right?
In our organization, how do you thinkTennessee would benefit from building a
(43:06):
statewide chapter of Crime Survivors forSafety and Justice, not only to support
survivors across the state, but reallyto build a network of survivors that
are engaging in organizing in advocacy?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (43:18):
We could definitely benefit for a chapter here.
They're ready to be uplifted.
They're ready to be engaged.
They want to show up.
And this gives them an opportunity toget a better way of being organized
and getting more information.
Like I said, a lot of times whenwe're talking about survivor groups
(43:38):
that are just on the ground, a lotof times those organizations are
started just out of somebody's pain.
I got pain.
I'm trying to heal.
I'm going to bring some more peopleand we're going to heal together.
But a lot of them don't havethe resources and the knowledge
yet on what that looks like.
Or they think that, getting involvedin legislative work and policy work and
(44:00):
organizing in those spaces is somethingthat is a big undertaking and this
allows them to be able to see it's not.
It's not.
I joke with Ms.
Clemmie all the time.
Ms.
Clemmie who is the CEO and founder ofMothers Over Murder Nashville Peacemakers.
Mothers Over Murder isher flagship program.
But she always joke all the time,they tried to get me to the statehouse
(44:20):
many years ago, and the only personthat can get me back here is Rafiah.
Oh my God, she was like, come in hereand talk to who, I ain't doing it.
And being able to bring them in there andsitting in the galleys and just seeing
how that process worked, having themspeak with legislators, I created, one
pagers, for them to be able to go in andtalk about what we were fighting for.
(44:43):
And those are things that they had noidea how to do, so I definitely think
that Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice not only could help them with
the ways of having that support, throughother people that are in community,
help prioritize healing, what thatrehabilitation looks like, peer support.
That's the best ways that you can putone foot in front of the other and be
(45:06):
able to see a light at the end of thetunnel from what you've gone through.
So, we are over here prayingthat CSSJ in Tennessee is
something that is up and coming.
I think it's definitely a good way for usto be a part of changing that narrative
that has been given to our victims voicesand saying these are the things we want
(45:27):
and us being able to say what we want.
Yes, we want crime to be addressed,that centers on those survivors
and the priorities of healing andthe prevention over punishment.
CSSJ in Tennessee could leadto landmark policy changes that
actually make our community safer.
(45:48):
So we're over here praying.
Aswad Thomas (45:50):
Your prayers have been answered.
I can say this now, Rafiah thatwe are, um, extremely excited to
partner with you all to bring CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice
to Tennessee and we have a goal.
Yes, we have a goal in mind tolaunch Crime Survivors for Safety and
Justice Tennessee in March of 2025and so excited to work with you all.
(46:15):
Our team will be in touch with you andother leaders of what that will look like.
Which will include more training.
We're developing toolkits,resources, developing campaign
strategies, to use as templates.
But yes, we're excited and thank youfor helping us see what this volunteer
model of Crime Survivors for Safety andJustice looks like as a first step to
(46:38):
launch our model in more states as well.
It's been a pleasure getting to know youand just seeing your leadership impact
policies and laws related to crimevictims, policies and laws related to
the death penalty, related to violenceprevention, related to criminal justice
reform, related to helping young parents.
And my last question before we wrapup today's episode is what advice
(47:00):
would you give to others who may bestruggling to find purpose after tragedy,
or who will want to turn their paininto meaningful action like you have?
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (47:11):
First off, don't rush the healing process.
Give yourself grace to grieve.
Acknowledge your feelings.
Find your people.
I was blessed that my bestfriend, unfortunately lost her
child right before I lost mine.
And so we've been ableto do this walk together.
But sharing our stories just reallyhelps you get through that time.
(47:34):
And it leads to you finding your voice.
What does that look like?
Don't feel like you got to go and justcome out with something that's a bang.
When we're talking about our lovedone, we feel like we got to go do
something that's like ginormous.
Start small, volunteering, writing,speaking out, those things will
lead to bigger changes over time.
(47:56):
And continuously, no matter whatalways focus on your healing.
Stay open to change.
What's your vision of how youfind your purpose may change.
I had no idea what Rodney's Villagewas going to look like when I first
had the vision of Rodney's Villagebut I took the last four years and
I've been in community, volunteering,speaking with other people to get an
(48:20):
idea of what that culminated to be.
Honoring your loved ones canbe through all kinds of ways.
It can be through advocacy work, itcan be through community service,
it can be through painting.
One of my old friends, I didn't knowshe had lost her son, but she reached
out to me yesterday she was an oldco-worker from many years back and, um,
she follows me on Facebook and reachedout to me last night about how she's
(48:43):
been following my story and that helpedher find her purpose through painting.
Just like there's the steps to grieving,there's the steps to forgiveness,
and there's the steps to findingyour purpose through your pain.
Thank you so much for having me here.
I appreciate that.
Aswad Thomas (48:59):
Of course, no, we, appreciate you.
I'm looking forward tous partnering together.
if you are out there listeningespecially if you are in Tennessee
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justiceis coming to your state in 2025.
We'll also support Rafiah's workat Rodney's Village which is
also part of Mothers Over Murderand also support Tennesseans for
Alternatives to the Death Penalty.
(49:21):
Rafiah, thank you so muchfor joining us here today.
I'm excited, uh, to continue to seethe amazing work that you are doing.
To all of our listeners, thankyou so much to everyone for
listening to today's episode.
To become a member of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice,
or join our email list, you canvisit the website at www.cssj.org.
(49:45):
Soon you will be able to sign up to becomea member of the Tennessee chapter as well.
So stay tuned about more updatesand where we're going to be
developing chapters in 2025.
Remember you can.
Tune into all podcast episodes onYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and other streaming platforms.
We are healing through actionand Rafiah, When Survivors Speak.
Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick (50:09):
Change Happens.
Aswad Thomas (50:10):
There we go.
Thank you all so much.
Talk to y'all soon.
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