July 22, 2022 • 51 mins
In the United States, 1 in 3 people will experience domestic violence in their lives, but very few victims receive the support or resources they need to heal.
The guests on our podcast today, Kimesha Coleman and Shari Ware, are two leaders who are stepping forward to interrupt cycles of harm and destigmatize the shame of domestic violence by providing much-needed support for victims.
In this episode, we talk about the racial disparities that often determine how the justice system responds to victims of domestic violence, the need for funding and programming to be made accessible to under-served communities, and how real accountability can disrupt cycles of abuse and make a massive impact on public safety.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
- Welcome to this week's episodeof Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the national director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 76,000 victims of crime
from across the country.
The Crime Survivors Speak podcast
is about who victims of crimeare and a safety solution
and the model programs that we,
(00:21):
we as survivors want to seemove across this country
to get us towards real safety for all.
I am thrilled to share this mic
with our CSJ members and partners.
You know, everydaypeople impacted by crime
who are moving from healing to action
and winning real change forcommunities across the country.
In today's episode, we'lltalk about domestic violence
(00:43):
and how we can better supportsurvivors and families.
♪ And when the worldgets a little too hard ♪
♪ Wipe your eyes your eyesput away your sorrow ♪
♪ When it's war I'llbe leading the charge ♪
♪ And I'll be stillfighting for you tomorrow ♪
- Although there havebeen substantial progress
(01:06):
in reducing domestic violence,
for decades millions ofAmericans have lived in daily,
silent fear within their own homes.
In addition, every yearmillions of children
are exposed to domestic violence.
You know, domestic violence isprevalent in every community
and affects everyone regardless of age,
socioeconomic status, sexual orientation,
(01:28):
gender, race and religionor any nationality.
For generations domesticviolence has been common,
but very challenging to talk about.
It brings up so muchshame and it's personal
and it often affects families.
In fact, most people haveexperienced domestic violence.
81 million Americans will experience
(01:50):
intimate partner violenceor domestic violence
during their lifetime.
That's one in three people.
An average of 20 peopleis physically abused
by intimate partners every minute.
In the United States morethan 10 million adults
experience domestic violence annually.
We must change that.
And so I'm looking forwardto today's conversation
(02:11):
with two survivors of domestic violence
to share their experiences and solutions
to open up pathways to solve this issue.
Kimesha Coleman fromDallas, Texas joins me.
Kimesha is an award-winning author
held by her first book title,
"He Loves Me Not (02:25):
Buried Tears of Betrayed Love"
and recently released a new book
titled "Pretty On Pretty Off."
She's also an empowerment coach
and self-esteem enhancement expert.
Kimesha is known forworking with survivors
and serve as the chapter coordinator
of the Dallas, Texas chapter
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
(02:46):
Next we have Shari Warefrom Detroit, Michigan.
Shari is the CEO and survivor advocate
for Still StandingAgainst Domestic Violence
and the Redeemed Batterer'sIntervention Program.
Still Standing is a faith-based
Christ centered nonprofit agency
serving men, women and children
who have been impactedby domestic violence.
As an advocate, Shari provides one to one
(03:08):
culturally sensitive services
to men, women and children in need.
Shari not only helps womenthrough Still Standing,
but since 2012, she also workedto redeem those responsible
as over 800 men have gone through
her rehabilitation program, Redeem.
So welcome Kimesha and Shari.
So let's talk about thecycle of domestic violence.
(03:30):
Shari, what is domestic violence?
- Aswad, thank you so much for having me.
So domestic violenceis a purposeful pattern
of assaultive and coercive behaviors
that adults and adolescents use
against their intimate partners
and those can be currentor former partners.
And sometimes they use those behaviors
(03:53):
against other family members,
causing economic, physicaland psychological harm.
- And Shari, would love to hearmore about your experiences.
So what was the impact ofdomestic violence on you
and its effect on other crimevictims who experienced it?
- I would say that while goingthrough domestic violence,
(04:15):
the impact changed my life dramatically
from a confident, outgoing,happy-go-lucky person
to a person with low self-esteem.
I became confused.
I was timid, fearful and withdrawn.
I became a person who hada hard time speaking up
about what was going on withinmy marriage and my household.
(04:38):
I didn't even recognize myself.
I didn't know who I was.I had lost my identity.
I never called the policeor told my family members
what was going on andwhat was happening to me
in fear of my husband going to jail
and my family members judging me
and also talking negative about him.
(04:58):
I was terrified of what myhusband would've done to me
after he was released from jail.
And talking with the womenwho are in my program
and also with the women
who are in a domesticviolence shelter in Detroit,
the effect on other crime, of victims,
are sometimes the same aswhat I experienced years ago.
One of my clients said tome, "If he comes for me,
(05:21):
he is going to get what he came for."
That I didn't understand
because I would never ever think that
or try to even fight back.
And what she didn't realize
is that she was not only putting herself,
but her children in more danger with that,
you know, with sayingthat we're fighting back.
(05:42):
She didn't look at herself asa victim of domestic violence.
But other women in the group also,
it impacted them the sameway that it impacted me.
Some don't talk about it.
They prefer to keep theviolence silent and hidden
and they continue to live in fear
because of theembarrassment and the shame.
(06:04):
And some of them even thinkthat they are the reason
why they are in a domesticviolence relationship.
- Thank you, Shari.
You know, studies suggestthat there is a relationship
between, you know,intimate partner violence
and depression and also suicidal behavior.
Kimesha, can you share your experience
of being a victim of domestic violence
and what was the impactof domestic violence
(06:26):
on you and your family?
- Well thank you, Aswad.
I grew up around domestic violence
so I experienced my motherbeing beaten by my stepfather,
screaming and pleading for her life.
So not only was I a victim,
(06:48):
I also witnessed my mother being abused
and it was very traumatic as a child
to hear your mother scream for her life.
And I remember maybe when I was 10,
waking up that morning andfinding her next to the couch,
(07:08):
trembling and cleaning offher face, fixing her suit.
I had to become her parent
and the impact pretty much conditioned me
or normalized domesticviolence in a sense.
(07:29):
I experienced teen dating violence
and also domestic violence,
controlling me and taking my car,
being scratched in my eyesuntil they were bloodshot red
and having to miss workbecause of these incidents.
It was almost like you wasliving inside of a horror movie
(07:51):
and you were the main character,
something that you neverwanna be in a horror movie.
Domestic violence caused meand my mother to have PTSD.
My mother also sufferedwith bipolar, schizophrenia
(08:11):
which are forms of mental illnesses.
Because of the lack of resources,
the lack of knowledge of domestic violence
and the impact of domestic violence,
no one sought out, youknow, there was no help.
No one even thought to ask for help
to see if there wereany resources available.
(08:33):
So you step into this cycle of violence
and you know that it's wrong,
but even when help does show up,
back in the '90s nothing was done.
They just say pack a bagand go to a friend's house.
But even though I haverelocated into another space,
(08:55):
my mental and emotionalstate has not changed.
So the impact of domesticviolence is so horrific
it can transform you froma normal female woman
to a mentally ill personthat is unfunctional,
(09:20):
unable to work, unable to feed yourself,
unable to pay your bills.
It is that traumatic.
- Domestic violence have impacted
you and your family's life for decades.
So you mentioned, youknow, these experiences
that you've experiencedat age of 10 years old
(09:41):
and seeing your mom asurvivor of domestic violence,
you know, in pain and hurtingwith little to no support
and, you know, fastforward, we are in 2021.
And these same experiencesof women across the country
is happening on a daily basis,
especially with the COVID-19 pandemic
(10:03):
has also just increased domesticviolence in communities.
Kimesha, would love to hearfrom you a little bit more,
you know, thinking when you were a child,
also when you also wentthrough your experience
of being a victim of domestic violence.
What was the justice systemresponse to you and your family?
- There was no justice.
(10:23):
Like I mentioned before,
when the police would show up,
it was pack a bag andgo to a friend's house
or another family member.
There were no charges, no arrest.
And even in a case on my behalf,
I was arrested for defending myself
(10:44):
even though I was the one beat up.
So we have come a long way,
but we have a long way to go
when it comes to domestic violence.
They do not see us as humans with rights.
As a woman, we have rights.We're not a piece of property.
(11:04):
Just picking up your bags
does not make me feel safe and secure
because again, there isemotional, there is the mental.
There's also the physicalabuse that takes place.
And you do want some type of justice,
but justice never comes.
(11:25):
You may get a court date.You may not get a court date.
But when you lay down at night
and believe that you are safe,
hope that you're safe in your own bed,
laying next to someonethat say they love you
(11:48):
only to be woken up
to blows to the head or being strangled.
My mother was cut right above her eye
where my stepdad, he cut her.
Where is my justice?
- Thank you for sharing that, Kimesha.
Not only just really speakingto the psychological effects
(12:11):
of being a survivor of domestic,
but also the physicaleffects of that that often...
You know, that's not ascar that just goes away.
You know, that's a scar that you live with
and you often have to see
every day people look in the mirror.
Shari, what about you?
You know, what was the justice response
when you were a victimof domestic violence?
(12:34):
- I am really, I don'twanna say surprised,
but like shocked that Kimesha's response
is the same as mine becausethere was no justice
and it was, you know, pack a bag,
tell the man to pack a bag
and, you know, leave fortwo days and cool off.
(12:54):
Sometimes he would, sometimes he wouldn't.
And then on top of that,
we were raised that whathappens in the house
stays in the house.
You don't go out tellinganybody that, you know,
your mother is being abused in the house.
And my mom was the same way as the victim
who told me that if he comes for me,
(13:15):
he's going to get exactlywhat he has come to get
because she fought back
and she did not see herself as a victim
because she fought back.
So we were taught not tocall the police, you know,
Black women don't callthe police on Black men
because we were afraid ofwhat the police would do
to that man even though that man
(13:35):
is almost about to kill us with his hands.
And so we all, even as kids,I was paralyzed with fear.
You know, I was always crying.
I couldn't figure out whyI was always such a crybaby
and it was because there was no help.
You know, where could wego? Who could we tell?
And especially if the police
(13:57):
who are supposed to serve and protect
didn't serve and protect,what are we to do?
And so, you know, you couldn'ttell your family and friends.
You just had to be quiet.
And so I think whathappens in the house stays
(14:18):
and happened, I learned to lie.
I learned how to protect the abuser.
And then also it led me to getinto an abusive relationships
and also an abusive marriagebecause of that upbringing.
And it just led to devastation.
(14:39):
So no justice was served atall by the justice system.
- Wow and that's, it's terrible.
You know, here you are,Kimesha, from Texas
and Shari, you are in Michigan
but will share those same experience.
And Kimesha, I know youwork with so many survivors
not only in Texas, but across the country.
You know, is that the norm,
(14:59):
especially for a woman of color?
Is that the norm of the justice system,
a response to survivorsthat you work with?
- Normally that is the norm.
You have to be pretty much dying
to get some type of response.
The catch-22, if you docall and you have children,
(15:25):
they wanna call CPS on you
because there's violence inside the home
so that's what is going on right now.
And I did some research on my own
where this is what's happening
in the Black and Latino community
versus the white community.
They're being sent over tomental health counselors
(15:48):
while our children arebeing taken away from us
because we are involved in adomestic violence situation.
- Those are the racial disparities, right?
So Kimesha, you mentionedthat, you know, for survivors
and, you know, AfricanAmerican, Latino women
who have children in the home,
we know that domestic violenceimpacts the entire family.
(16:10):
And that's consistent with alldifferent victim experiences
that often when if weexperience crime and violence,
the response is the justicesystem or incarceration
or access to services.
But in our communities whenwe experience those things,
it's not that same responseof getting access to services.
It's actually more punitiveis what I heard from you,
(16:32):
Kimesha, from thatresearch that you shared.
And we know like since theCOVID pandemic, you know,
that even makes it more difficultfor victims to seek help,
you know, health systems and shelters,
you know, are becomingoverloaded, especially.
I continue to hear that from you, Shari.
Over the years, it's just like, you know,
there isn't enough beds inshelters in a major city
(16:54):
like Detroit.
You know, y'all haveyour own organizations
where, you know, funding hasbeen cut to organizations
which also is making it more difficult
for victims to accessthings like medical care,
shelter, mental health services,
but most important, like the basic needs.
Shari, I would love tohear what do survivors need
to heal and recover, Shari?
(17:14):
- From just a personal standpoint,
first of all, I think thatsurvivors need family and friends
who have empathy and compassion
because sometimes familymembers get tired of,
you know, listening to us.
They get tired of helpingus and they just get tired,
but we need them to haveempathy and compassion.
I also believe that what helped me
(17:35):
was open lines of communication.
Survivors need access to resources
that can be drawn on by a person
in order to function effectively
because when we have endured trauma,
we need those resources
and when they are not available to us,
it makes it so much harderfor us to just function
in our everyday lives.
(17:56):
We need those resourcesto be without hurdles
and without red tape.
And most of all, survivorsneed community members
who are aware andrecognize domestic violence
when it happens.
When you see something, say something.
Survivors need safeand affordable housing.
They need to be able to getout of a lease without penalty
(18:18):
when fleeing a domestic situation.
And last but not least, weneed trauma recovery centers
that have removed barriersto health and stability.
We need it to be focusedon healing communities
and interrupting cycles of violence.
Survivors can receive respectful,
compassionate and effective mental health
(18:38):
and medical services.
And these are the necessaryservices that I believe
that survivors need toheal and to recover.
- And thank you, Shari.
Kimesha, would love to hear from you.
You are over there in Dallas.
What do survivors need?
And would also love to hearwhat's currently available
for victims in Dallas, or, you know,
also what are some of thechallenges that you see?
(19:01):
- The shelters in the community.
I know I had to travelacross town 30, 45 minutes
because there were no bedsaccessible on my side of town.
Going over to the northside just to obtain shelter.
Counseling is very, very important.
(19:25):
A trauma specialist insidethat shelter is key.
A lot of times women aregetting some type of counseling,
but I don't think it's in depth enough
to resolve some of those psychological
and mental issues going on.
(19:46):
So mental health, substanceabuse facilities in the area
and those trauma recoverycenters are very key resources
that domestic violence survivors need
to get the necessary help healing.
And like she said, compassion.
(20:08):
Most of time we are blamed
for putting ourselves in a situation.
No one goes out and looks at a guy and say
oh, he looks like a great woman beater.
Nobody does that. He doesn'tpresent himself as that.
Taking the blame off the victim
should be a part of those resources,
(20:30):
letting that individual knowthat it's not their fault
and that's a part of their recovery
so the cycle of violencestops right there.
Educating that individualand their family members
about relationships.
This is not normal.
Violence is not a normal partof a healthy relationship.
(20:51):
It doesn't make it work better.
- I heard from the two of you, you know,
safe housing, transportation,you know, to get services.
I heard mental health services,
things like trauma recovery centers.
You know, over the past few years,
there's been a increase infunding for domestic violence.
(21:11):
Think about VOCA increase in 2015
that increased the cap from 757 million
to almost $2.3 billion
for organizations who areworking with survivors,
especially domestic violence.
Through the American Rescue Plan,
there are millions ofdollars coming into states
and communities for survivors.
(21:33):
I would love to hear from the two of you.
Shari, I know you run an organization,
Still Standing Against Domestic Violence
and Kimesha, you're on theground working with survivors.
Do you all think that the fundingthat's coming into states,
are those reaching thecommunities that are most hard?
Shari, start with you.
- Aswad, no, those funds are not.
(21:56):
They're not even tricklingdown into the underserved
to the people who are onthe margins of society.
They're not available there.
And currently in the city of Detroit,
you know, we have a lot of organizations
that provide domestic violence services.
However, there are gaps in the system.
(22:17):
There are also gaps and overlap
with the domestic violence organizations
that provide this service
because we are all working in silos.
And so there seems tobe like a competition.
Instead of us making room foreverybody, we are competing.
I have found that fundingresources are difficult to obtain
(22:40):
and it's not because themoney is not available.
Because the entity thathas control over the money
does not see the populationthat I serve as victims
or crime survivors,
they don't see us fit toreceive any of those fundings.
None of the money and theiroutreach and the services.
They just don't reach us,especially me at Still Standing.
(23:01):
I fund things out of my pocket
and the funding is just not available.
And if it is available,
the red tape and the restrictions
that you can use thatmoney for is so restrictive
that it really does notservice our survivors.
We can't pay their rent,
we can't pay their lightsor their water bill.
(23:21):
We can't buy their kids a pair of shoes.
We can't help them to get atire, you know, for their car.
We can't help them to get coatsor hats and gloves and boots
because that money that is supposed to be
for crime survivors, it's not available.
It just has too many restrictions
on what we can do with that.
(23:42):
Now we can get them a bus card,
but we can't get them a cardto go to the grocery store
so we can buy them a gas card,
but most of the people that we service,
they ride public transportation.
So we can't get them an Uber,can't get them a taxi cab
and so it's really like pointless.
(24:02):
If we cannot use those funds to be able
to effectively and efficientlyhelp the crime survivors,
what's the point?
- Thanks, Shari. What about you, Kimesha?
You know, do you think the funds
that are coming fromthe federal government
and at the state level for victim service,
are they reaching communities in Dallas,
especially communities hithard by crime and violence?
(24:24):
- No, I ask why.
I talk to a lot of grassroot organizations
like Shari herself
who fund their programsout of their own pockets
and really don't even waste any time
even asking for the funding
because the funding is not obtainable.
There is like she said, so much red tape
and that was one of my situations.
(24:45):
I didn't have time to fill out paperwork.
There were people who were in need.
I would rather comeout of my pocket myself
to get the funding to help those people
who wanted and needed the help
instead of trying to fill out a packet,
wait for that packet to get approved
and that funding is part ofthe lifeline to justice, right?
(25:08):
If we don't get the necessaryhealing, the recovery,
we're gonna be stuck inthat cycle of repeating
the same relationships,engaging in violence,
self-medicating to numb out
and escape from whatwe feel on the inside.
I believe that it's set upin a way to discourage us
(25:32):
so those underserved communities,
the brown and the Blackcommunities do not get the help.
They stay in suffering.They stay oppressed.
- Yeah and that unaddressedtrauma as you mentioned,
leads to so many other health issues,
but also, you know, for so many people,
(25:55):
it leads them to come incontact with the justice system.
I know there are so manysurvivors across the country
who are just like youwho've turned, you know,
your pain to power, who, you know,
who are survivors of domestic violence
and started your ownorganizations and went on to,
you know, have so many amazing careers.
So let's talk about y'all's leadership.
You both have startedorganizations, you know,
(26:16):
to be a channel for our solutions.
Kimesha, would love to hear from you.
You became a author, youare a self-esteem coach,
an empowerment speaker.
How did you get started in doing that
and what have you learned along the way?
- How did I get started?
I started because when I was going
through my counseling sessions,
(26:38):
I said there are otherwomen and teens out there
just like me who need thisinformation, who need the help.
And I just wanted toshare, I wanted to help.
And I said that to my counselor,
thinking I was gonna startlike two, three years later.
He was like no, start now.
I was like now?
(26:58):
You know, and I go to church that Sunday
and there's an ad in thebrochure for mentors.
So I started out mentoring unwed teens
and then I moved into thedomestic violence shelters
and emergency crisis centers,
mentoring domestic violence survivors.
(27:20):
And that's how I started,just really sharing tips,
encouraging them,holding them accountable,
being their support.
- Kimesha, for years,out of your experiences
and, you know, wantingto help other survivors,
like you provided thatpeer to peer support
that so many survivorsand families needed.
(27:41):
You actually, you know,went to those shelters
and worked with teens.
So you've been a victimservice provider for years.
Administrators who oversee funding,
they don't see the workthat you are doing.
They don't invest in thework that you're doing
and I think that's important.
You know, there are so manypeople across this country
who are, you know,doing such amazing work.
(28:01):
And Shari, you foundedStill Standing and Redeem.
Would love to hear fromyou, a three part question.
So how did you get started?
And also what have been thebarriers to services and funding
for smart organizations like yours
and what have you learned along the way?
- Okay well I got started in 2007
(28:24):
and the crazy thing is isthat I did not identify
with being a domestic violence victim.
And like Kimesha said, back in the '90s,
you know, I thought it, you know,
it wasn't called domesticviolence back then.
It was called a domestic dispute.
It was a family thingand so you handled it.
And so I moved fromWichita, Kansas to Detroit
(28:47):
and I started going
to obtain my associate'sdegree in criminal justice
and within that program,
I met a lady who had adomestic violence organization.
At that particular time, Iwas doing process serving
where I was serving PPOs topeople and serving civil suits.
And so she asked me if she could hire me
(29:07):
to serve her PPOs for herclients in her organization
and so I began to do that andI began to just shadow her.
And I started doing researchon what domestic violence was
and what it looked like and I was floored
because I was a victim anddidn't even realize it.
During that time thatI was going to school,
I met two other people whohad similar backgrounds as me.
(29:30):
One was sexual assault.
The other one was sexualassault and domestic violence.
And so we began to talk about, you know,
helping those people who were just like us
and since we were goinginto criminal justice,
you know, we thought hey,you know, this is it.
We can really help change people's lives.
And so we all came and satdown at my dining room table,
also my daughter as well,
(29:50):
because she is a childsurvivor of domestic violence.
And so the four of us satat my dining room table
and we came up with this planthat we were going to start
to help victims of domestic violence.
And that's what we started doing.
So I started volunteeringfor different organizations,
domestic violence organizations,
just to get a feel and the education
(30:11):
of what domestic violence was all about.
So I worked for the GoodwillIndustries of Greater Detroit.
They didn't have any women services there
and so the lady who I had metwhile I was going to school
went to Goodwill's and asked them,
they have a all men's program.
Why didn't they have women's services?
They said well, you know,they'd never had the need to
(30:34):
so she agreed that we would work for them
for a dollar a month.
You pay us a dollar a month
and let us come up with the curriculum
and the services for women.
And once that takes off,
then you can start to payus a salary and it blew up.
So I became a mentor and a coach
for those women who werein domestic violence
(30:56):
and sexual assault relationships.
Also, we only have one domesticviolence shelter in Detroit
and a lady at my churchasked me to come there
and share my testimony.
And I shared my testimony with the ladies
who were in the shelterand that was in 2011
and I've been going to thatshelter every week since 2013,
(31:20):
providing resources for thoseladies who are in the shelter
and I started what wecall an aftercare program.
So when those ladiescome out of the shelter,
then they come to theStill Standing organization
and we provide, you know, basic needs.
If they need GED,
if they need to learnhow to build a resume.
We also do a financial literacy class
that's called Financial Peace University
(31:41):
that helps them to learnhow to save and budget.
I've done that from 2007 until 2012.
And then the RedeemedBattering Intervention Program
was birthed.
That I was terrified.
I was terrified to thinkthat I could even begin
(32:02):
to help men who use violenceand abusive behaviors
and I almost died at the hand of a man.
That was one assignment that Ialmost just turned my back on
because of my fear.
But when I decided tostart doing research,
I started going to conferencesand it seems like emails
just started popping intomy email box of, you know,
(32:23):
they're having a training over here,
they're having a conference over there.
So I began to walk down that journey
of helping men who havechosen to use violence
and abusive behaviors.
So I have a contractwith 36 district courts.
They send the majority oftheir men who are charged
with intimate partnerviolence to my program
and I help them to be transformed
(32:43):
by the renewing of their minds.
I help them to relearnbecause we cannot unlearn
the violence that wemay have grown up with,
that we have seen and thatwe have even experienced,
but I can help them to relearn.
I could also help them torebuild their thought processes
and to replace what they have built.
And so that program has really taken off,
(33:05):
but some of the barriers that I have seen
with the women on the Still Standing side,
funding is the biggestbarrier because like Kimesha,
I'm gonna pay for it out of my pocket.
I'm not going to wait for somebody to say
well you need to fill out this,you need to apply for that.
No because by that time,that woman could be in danger
and her children could be in danger too
so I'm going to fund whateverI need to fund for that lady.
(33:29):
Now for the men, there's a big stigma
because these are mostly men of color
and nobody wants to help men of color
who use violence and/or abusive behaviors.
And that to me is just,
that is the biggest barrierthat I am facing right now.
And so this year I have decided
(33:51):
that I'm going to push helping the men
who use violence and abusive behaviors
because we can continue totalk about domestic violence
and victims of domestic violence
and the cycle of domestic violence,
but if we don't begin to help the men
and I'm not only just saying just men
because we also have women who use force.
I have a group for those women as well.
(34:13):
But the statistics saythat 95% of the people
who use battering or violentand abusive behaviors are men.
So we have to start helping the men.
You know, we wanna lookat men and we wanna say
what's wrong with you
when the question shouldbe what happened to you.
So when I ask those menwhat happened to them,
(34:36):
90% of the men that I service
are returning citizensor justice involved men
and they are also victimsof domestic abuse,
sexual abuse, they grewup in alcoholic homes,
they grew up in drug riddenhomes and they have been abused.
And so creating that safe space for them
(34:56):
to be able to come in andshare what happened to them,
the transformation is amazing.
And along the way, I havelearned that we are humans,
that no matter what we have done,
we are not our worst mistake.
And especially for men,I want them to know
(35:17):
that they are lovable andthat they are redeemable.
And for women, that theyare not the only ones
that have gone through this
and even though me doing thework and I did not identify
with being a victim and I almost died,
I can understand the womenbecause I have been there too,
but to be able to talk tothem and allow them to express
(35:38):
what they have went through
and how they feel about certain things,
it has taught me tojust be more empathetic
and more compassionate than I already am.
- Wow and Shari, that is so unique
to hear about your organization
not only work with women and children,
(35:59):
but also are working withmen that have caused harm.
Like for me, like that is public safety.
That is working with individualswho have caused harm,
individuals who have been victimized.
That is a form of public safety
that we don't invest inmuch across the country.
So as you know, there aremany key stakeholders,
(36:20):
you know, who arelistening to this podcast.
There are models, provenmodels, that work.
Shari, for you, you know,you work with survivors
and you work with peoplewho have caused harm.
You know, what would a traumainformed justice system
look like to you?
- It would include a whole lot of training
the staff to be welcomingand non-judgmental
(36:41):
and modifying physical environments
to create a sense of safety,
to help ensure thattrauma survivors benefit
from judicial interventions.
Treating individuals whothey come in contact with
with dignity and respect,
that all criminal justicesystem professionals
will be trained on howto understand trauma,
its effects and the manifestations
(37:03):
and will approach all interactions
through a trauma informed lens.
And because trauma is so prevalent,
trainings that provide opportunities
for all justice personnel
to explore their own experience of trauma
because if you can't help yourself,
if you don't know the traumasthat you have within yourself,
how can you help somebodythat comes before you
(37:26):
that has traumas?
So I would require that thattrauma informed justice system,
that every single person
would go through training
to experience their ownexperience of trauma
and that may help themto better understand
their own trauma andparticipants' behavior
and would also create asafe and healing environment
for all.
(37:47):
So the judges would be trauma informed.
They will expect the presence of trauma
and take care not to replicate it
and understand that it may affect
court participants' feelings and behaviors
and the trauma informedjudges, the court personnel,
attorneys, courtcoordinators, case workers
and even treatment providers
will ensure an individualized approach
(38:09):
that maximizes opportunities
for a positive treatment outcome
and the trauma informed justice systems,
the whole goal for me will beto fully engage participants
by minimizing perceived threats,avoiding retraumatization
and providing resources andsupporting healing and recovery.
- Simple solutions.
Listening to survivors, youknow, communication, empathy,
(38:35):
but also training for allindividuals in the justice system
and being trauma informed.
But one thing that you mentioned
that I think we often don'thear about is providing training
for people to recognize theirown trauma as a key step
cause many of us, you know,many judges, you know,
court personnel, even law enforcement
(38:55):
have experienced trauma in their life
and that went unresolved.
And so providing that trainingwhich will better help them
meet the needs of survivorsand getting access to services,
but also preventingdomestic violence as well
so thank you so much, Shari.
There are so many solutionsand you all are the experts
and that's who we need to be listening to,
(39:16):
people who have experiencedbeing survivors,
but also who are offeringso many solutions,
you know, to help stop the violence.
Kimesha, you know, for you, you know,
what are the solutionsin domestic violence
and support survivors?
What would be availableat the community level
for survivors?
- So here in Dallas County,we currently have 15 shelters
(39:39):
including the transitional housing.
So we definitely need more shelters.
You know, we're talkingabout 22,000 reported cases
in Dallas County.
15 shelters is not gonna meet that demand.
So we definitely need more shelters.
(40:00):
We need more mental health providers,
again, in those immediate communities,
underserved communities.
Education is a great piece too.
I know Shari mentioned training,
educating not only the officials,
but our teachers and ourpastors because again,
(40:22):
it's happening in the home andwhere are the people going?
They going to school andthey going to church.
Being able to identify that is very key.
Identifying with domestic violence
and having the conversation
or the first steps on an individual level,
getting that person to openup and say I need help,
(40:44):
until we start to have those conversations
in the home, at the schools,in the church, on the street,
the cycle will continue.
So instead of normalizingdomestic violence,
we need to normalize ahealthy relationship.
What does that look like?
(41:05):
No one has the right to hit you,
to call your name, to demeanyou in any type of way.
Speaking up and sayingthat you have experienced
domestic violence,
whether it's been a mixture of physical,
mental and emotional or just physical,
speaking up is the firstpoint of accountability
(41:26):
and actually reporting the incident.
Even if you don't think it's serious,
you have the right to speak up.
You have the right to feelsafe in your own home.
Not holding that person accountable
gives them the okay to do it again
and we don't want that to happen.
(41:48):
Speaking up is saying hey, I'm a person.
I have rights, I havefeelings, I deserve to be here
and I deserve to feel safe.
So don't hesitate to standup for what you believe in,
for what you feel that is rightand what is rightfully yours
and that's to feel safe in your own home.
(42:12):
- Shari, what would it meanto hold someone accountable?
- So you guys know that Ihold the men accountable
every single day that they sit before me
and so I just have asimple solution for them.
So to hold them accountable
would mean holding themaccountable for their actions,
their thoughts, theirwords and their deeds
towards other people
(42:33):
that are negative orviolent and/or abusive.
And it also involves themtaking responsibility
for their own actions andbeing able to explain why
and I keep it just as simple as that.
You have to be accountablefor everything that you do,
even your thought process.
And if your thought processand your self-talk is negative,
(42:55):
nine times out of 10 you'regoing to act out with negative.
So you have to be accountable for that.
Explain why you arebehaving in those manners.
- And that's how we, youknow, continue to decrease
domestic violence in communities,
by holding people accountable.
But most importantly,ensuring survivors get access
(43:16):
to the resource andservices that they need.
And both of you have workedwith survivors for decades.
You all talked about, you know,
the gaps, the barriers that exist.
You also offered up somany different solutions.
I would love to hear from you all
and think about thesurvivors and the families
that you all work with.
You know, what would it meanto help survivors' recovery?
(43:38):
If you could have a magic wand
that exists for you to do everything
that you could for asurvivor, what would that be?
What services would you provideand what would be the impact
that will have on a survivor and family
to help them recover?
Shari, let's start with you.
- Wow, you're giving me that magic wand?
- Yep, giving you the magic wand.
(44:00):
- That, the impact of just beingable to see people to live,
to be able to freely move about,
to not have to live in fear,to not have to live with lack,
could you imagine a worldwhere there was no violence,
where there were free flowing resources,
(44:20):
where people were ableto access those resources
when they needed andalso share with others?
That would be like heaven.
It would just be a place thatwould be filled with love
and peace and laughter,
where families, the man,the woman, the children,
you know, the grandmothers, the grandpas,
(44:40):
family would be family.
And you would be able toshare that with your neighbor,
share that with others,
that we are not hurting or harming people
with the words coming out ofour mouth or with our hands.
That impact would be, itwould just be amazing.
- What about you, Kimesha?
If you had that magic wand,what services would you provide
(45:04):
and what would be the impact
that would help survivors recover?
- When it comes to recovery,
I found that a lot ofsurvivors just wanna be heard.
I wanna get this story out.I wanna talk about this pain.
So when you think about recovery,
again, it's having thecompassion to listen
(45:25):
and understand what thisperson is going through
because it's hard when youmix in violence and love.
That's a hard love storyto try to understand,
but having the compassionand understanding
and just allowing thatperson to express themself,
allow them to draw out that picture
(45:47):
of what they went throughand not be judged,
not be condemned because Ididn't leave the first time.
It took me seven times or 17 times.
Allowing them to be free mentally
from the bondage of domestic violence.
(46:08):
Healing is so key to the recovery,
yet it is the one thing thatwe are missing, the healing.
- And that's what, you know,the joys of this podcast
is to help people heal.
So many people acrossthe country, you know,
(46:29):
who will listen to you all'sstory, listen to you all's work
will be like you, Kimesha,who say maybe I can,
you know, start sharing orstart work with survivors
two years from now.
There are survivors who are listening
who's gonna start that journey tomorrow.
All right and the same for you, Shari,
just, you know, think about, you know,
your organization of notonly working with survivors,
but working with peoplewho have caused harm.
(46:51):
When we think about safety,when we think about a community,
you know, these are the things
that we have to listen to each other.
We have to ensure that there's a community
that can wrap its arm around each other.
And most important, we have toinvest in these communities.
You know, we've took somany billions of dollars,
so many resources away from communities
(47:14):
and invested more intocriminal justice system
that haven't made us any safer.
So now is the time to reverse that.
You know, we need to take money
out of the criminal justice system
and invest more in communities
so all survivors can get the support
and services that they need to heal,
but also making sure thatpeople who have caused harm,
that they're receiving themental health services,
(47:36):
the trauma recovery services,
to help them heal andalso getting them access
to jobs and housing whichalways as you all know,
reduce so much stressthat people go through
when they're not able toprovide stability and safety
for their family.
And, you know, we have somany people across the country
that have experienced domestic violence
(47:56):
or working to support survivors
listening to today's podcast.
For closer remarks, Kimesha and Shari,
Kimesha, I'll start with you.
Is there anything thatyou would like to share
with survivors that may be listening?
What's that one thing or twothat you would like to share
with survivors that are listening today?
- Well I often say thatwe don't have an epidemic
(48:19):
of domestic violence.
We have a epidemic of the lack of love.
The love for yourself andthe love for one another
is the key to solving orresolving domestic violence.
Once you learn how to love yourself,
you can properly love someone else.
(48:39):
- Love is the way to go.
What about you, Shari?
- I would tell survivorsthat they are not alone
and that there is helpavailable if they want it.
I would also tell thosewho are causing harm
that they are also not alone
(49:00):
and there is also helpavailable if they want it.
- Love and you're not alone,there's help available
and so many other solutionsthat you all shared today
so thank you so much Kimesha and Shari
for sharing your stories
and how you've channeledyour pain into power.
Thank you for the work that you're doing,
(49:21):
not only in your respectivecities and states,
but also across the country
as leaders of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice.
And thank you everyone who are tuning in
listening today's podcast.
For more informationabout domestic violence,
you can visit organizations
like Still StandingAgainst Domestic Violence.
You also can go to coachingbykimesha.com.
(49:43):
You also can find more resources available
by the National CoalitionAgainst Domestic Violence
at www.ncadv.org
or visit the Domestic Violence Hotline
at www.hotline.org.
If you are immediatedanger, please call 911.
(50:04):
For more help, you can also call
the national Domestic ViolenceHotline at 1-800-799-7233.
Or you can text the word start to 88788.
And also to become a member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
join our email list.
Visit the website at www.cssj.org
(50:24):
or you can text us right now
by texting the word survivor to 97779.
Remember, you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcast, Spotify andother streaming platforms.
We are healing through action.
And again, thank you, Shari andKimesha for joining us today
because we know that whensurvivors speak, change happens.
(50:50):
♪ And when the worldgets a little too hard ♪
♪ Wipe your eyes your eyesput away your sorrow ♪
♪ When it's war I'llbe leading the charge ♪
♪ And I'll be stillfighting for you tomorrow ♪
- Welcome to this week's episodeof Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the national director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 76,000 victims of crime
from across the country.
The Crime Survivors Speak podcast
is about who victims of crimeare and a safety solution
and the model programs that we,
(00:21):
we as survivors want to seemove across this country
to get us towards real safety for all.
I am thrilled to share this mic
with our CSJ members and partners.
You know, everydaypeople impacted by crime
who are moving from healing to action
and winning real change forcommunities across the country.
In today's episode, we'lltalk about domestic violence
(00:43):
and how we can better supportsurvivors and families.
♪ And when the worldgets a little too hard ♪
♪ Wipe your eyes your eyesput away your sorrow ♪
♪ When it's war I'llbe leading the charge ♪
♪ And I'll be stillfighting for you tomorrow ♪
- Although there havebeen substantial progress
(01:06):
in reducing domestic violence,
for decades millions ofAmericans have lived in daily,
silent fear within their own homes.
In addition, every yearmillions of children
are exposed to domestic violence.
You know, domestic violence isprevalent in every community
and affects everyone regardless of age,
socioeconomic status, sexual orientation,
(01:28):
gender, race and religionor any nationality.
For generations domesticviolence has been common,
but very challenging to talk about.
It brings up so muchshame and it's personal
and it often affects families.
In fact, most people haveexperienced domestic violence.
81 million Americans will experience
(01:50):
intimate partner violenceor domestic violence
during their lifetime.
That's one in three people.
An average of 20 peopleis physically abused
by intimate partners every minute.
In the United States morethan 10 million adults
experience domestic violence annually.
We must change that.
And so I'm looking forwardto today's conversation
(02:11):
with two survivors of domestic violence
to share their experiences and solutions
to open up pathways to solve this issue.
Kimesha Coleman fromDallas, Texas joins me.
Kimesha is an award-winning author
held by her first book title,
"He Loves Me Not (02:25):
Buried Tears of Betrayed Love"
and recently released a new book
titled "Pretty On Pretty Off."
She's also an empowerment coach
and self-esteem enhancement expert.
Kimesha is known forworking with survivors
and serve as the chapter coordinator
of the Dallas, Texas chapter
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
(02:46):
Next we have Shari Warefrom Detroit, Michigan.
Shari is the CEO and survivor advocate
for Still StandingAgainst Domestic Violence
and the Redeemed Batterer'sIntervention Program.
Still Standing is a faith-based
Christ centered nonprofit agency
serving men, women and children
who have been impactedby domestic violence.
As an advocate, Shari provides one to one
(03:08):
culturally sensitive services
to men, women and children in need.
Shari not only helps womenthrough Still Standing,
but since 2012, she also workedto redeem those responsible
as over 800 men have gone through
her rehabilitation program, Redeem.
So welcome Kimesha and Shari.
So let's talk about thecycle of domestic violence.
(03:30):
Shari, what is domestic violence?
- Aswad, thank you so much for having me.
So domestic violenceis a purposeful pattern
of assaultive and coercive behaviors
that adults and adolescents use
against their intimate partners
and those can be currentor former partners.
And sometimes they use those behaviors
(03:53):
against other family members,
causing economic, physicaland psychological harm.
- And Shari, would love to hearmore about your experiences.
So what was the impact ofdomestic violence on you
and its effect on other crimevictims who experienced it?
- I would say that while goingthrough domestic violence,
(04:15):
the impact changed my life dramatically
from a confident, outgoing,happy-go-lucky person
to a person with low self-esteem.
I became confused.
I was timid, fearful and withdrawn.
I became a person who hada hard time speaking up
about what was going on withinmy marriage and my household.
(04:38):
I didn't even recognize myself.
I didn't know who I was.I had lost my identity.
I never called the policeor told my family members
what was going on andwhat was happening to me
in fear of my husband going to jail
and my family members judging me
and also talking negative about him.
(04:58):
I was terrified of what myhusband would've done to me
after he was released from jail.
And talking with the womenwho are in my program
and also with the women
who are in a domesticviolence shelter in Detroit,
the effect on other crime, of victims,
are sometimes the same aswhat I experienced years ago.
One of my clients said tome, "If he comes for me,
(05:21):
he is going to get what he came for."
That I didn't understand
because I would never ever think that
or try to even fight back.
And what she didn't realize
is that she was not only putting herself,
but her children in more danger with that,
you know, with sayingthat we're fighting back.
(05:42):
She didn't look at herself asa victim of domestic violence.
But other women in the group also,
it impacted them the sameway that it impacted me.
Some don't talk about it.
They prefer to keep theviolence silent and hidden
and they continue to live in fear
because of theembarrassment and the shame.
(06:04):
And some of them even thinkthat they are the reason
why they are in a domesticviolence relationship.
- Thank you, Shari.
You know, studies suggestthat there is a relationship
between, you know,intimate partner violence
and depression and also suicidal behavior.
Kimesha, can you share your experience
of being a victim of domestic violence
and what was the impactof domestic violence
(06:26):
on you and your family?
- Well thank you, Aswad.
I grew up around domestic violence
so I experienced my motherbeing beaten by my stepfather,
screaming and pleading for her life.
So not only was I a victim,
(06:48):
I also witnessed my mother being abused
and it was very traumatic as a child
to hear your mother scream for her life.
And I remember maybe when I was 10,
waking up that morning andfinding her next to the couch,
(07:08):
trembling and cleaning offher face, fixing her suit.
I had to become her parent
and the impact pretty much conditioned me
or normalized domesticviolence in a sense.
(07:29):
I experienced teen dating violence
and also domestic violence,
controlling me and taking my car,
being scratched in my eyesuntil they were bloodshot red
and having to miss workbecause of these incidents.
It was almost like you wasliving inside of a horror movie
(07:51):
and you were the main character,
something that you neverwanna be in a horror movie.
Domestic violence caused meand my mother to have PTSD.
My mother also sufferedwith bipolar, schizophrenia
(08:11):
which are forms of mental illnesses.
Because of the lack of resources,
the lack of knowledge of domestic violence
and the impact of domestic violence,
no one sought out, youknow, there was no help.
No one even thought to ask for help
to see if there wereany resources available.
(08:33):
So you step into this cycle of violence
and you know that it's wrong,
but even when help does show up,
back in the '90s nothing was done.
They just say pack a bagand go to a friend's house.
But even though I haverelocated into another space,
(08:55):
my mental and emotionalstate has not changed.
So the impact of domesticviolence is so horrific
it can transform you froma normal female woman
to a mentally ill personthat is unfunctional,
(09:20):
unable to work, unable to feed yourself,
unable to pay your bills.
It is that traumatic.
- Domestic violence have impacted
you and your family's life for decades.
So you mentioned, youknow, these experiences
that you've experiencedat age of 10 years old
(09:41):
and seeing your mom asurvivor of domestic violence,
you know, in pain and hurtingwith little to no support
and, you know, fastforward, we are in 2021.
And these same experiencesof women across the country
is happening on a daily basis,
especially with the COVID-19 pandemic
(10:03):
has also just increased domesticviolence in communities.
Kimesha, would love to hearfrom you a little bit more,
you know, thinking when you were a child,
also when you also wentthrough your experience
of being a victim of domestic violence.
What was the justice systemresponse to you and your family?
- There was no justice.
(10:23):
Like I mentioned before,
when the police would show up,
it was pack a bag andgo to a friend's house
or another family member.
There were no charges, no arrest.
And even in a case on my behalf,
I was arrested for defending myself
(10:44):
even though I was the one beat up.
So we have come a long way,
but we have a long way to go
when it comes to domestic violence.
They do not see us as humans with rights.
As a woman, we have rights.We're not a piece of property.
(11:04):
Just picking up your bags
does not make me feel safe and secure
because again, there isemotional, there is the mental.
There's also the physicalabuse that takes place.
And you do want some type of justice,
but justice never comes.
(11:25):
You may get a court date.You may not get a court date.
But when you lay down at night
and believe that you are safe,
hope that you're safe in your own bed,
laying next to someonethat say they love you
(11:48):
only to be woken up
to blows to the head or being strangled.
My mother was cut right above her eye
where my stepdad, he cut her.
Where is my justice?
- Thank you for sharing that, Kimesha.
Not only just really speakingto the psychological effects
(12:11):
of being a survivor of domestic,
but also the physicaleffects of that that often...
You know, that's not ascar that just goes away.
You know, that's a scar that you live with
and you often have to see
every day people look in the mirror.
Shari, what about you?
You know, what was the justice response
when you were a victimof domestic violence?
(12:34):
- I am really, I don'twanna say surprised,
but like shocked that Kimesha's response
is the same as mine becausethere was no justice
and it was, you know, pack a bag,
tell the man to pack a bag
and, you know, leave fortwo days and cool off.
(12:54):
Sometimes he would, sometimes he wouldn't.
And then on top of that,
we were raised that whathappens in the house
stays in the house.
You don't go out tellinganybody that, you know,
your mother is being abused in the house.
And my mom was the same way as the victim
who told me that if he comes for me,
(13:15):
he's going to get exactlywhat he has come to get
because she fought back
and she did not see herself as a victim
because she fought back.
So we were taught not tocall the police, you know,
Black women don't callthe police on Black men
because we were afraid ofwhat the police would do
to that man even though that man
(13:35):
is almost about to kill us with his hands.
And so we all, even as kids,I was paralyzed with fear.
You know, I was always crying.
I couldn't figure out whyI was always such a crybaby
and it was because there was no help.
You know, where could wego? Who could we tell?
And especially if the police
(13:57):
who are supposed to serve and protect
didn't serve and protect,what are we to do?
And so, you know, you couldn'ttell your family and friends.
You just had to be quiet.
And so I think whathappens in the house stays
(14:18):
and happened, I learned to lie.
I learned how to protect the abuser.
And then also it led me to getinto an abusive relationships
and also an abusive marriagebecause of that upbringing.
And it just led to devastation.
(14:39):
So no justice was served atall by the justice system.
- Wow and that's, it's terrible.
You know, here you are,Kimesha, from Texas
and Shari, you are in Michigan
but will share those same experience.
And Kimesha, I know youwork with so many survivors
not only in Texas, but across the country.
You know, is that the norm,
(14:59):
especially for a woman of color?
Is that the norm of the justice system,
a response to survivorsthat you work with?
- Normally that is the norm.
You have to be pretty much dying
to get some type of response.
The catch-22, if you docall and you have children,
(15:25):
they wanna call CPS on you
because there's violence inside the home
so that's what is going on right now.
And I did some research on my own
where this is what's happening
in the Black and Latino community
versus the white community.
They're being sent over tomental health counselors
(15:48):
while our children arebeing taken away from us
because we are involved in adomestic violence situation.
- Those are the racial disparities, right?
So Kimesha, you mentionedthat, you know, for survivors
and, you know, AfricanAmerican, Latino women
who have children in the home,
we know that domestic violenceimpacts the entire family.
(16:10):
And that's consistent with alldifferent victim experiences
that often when if weexperience crime and violence,
the response is the justicesystem or incarceration
or access to services.
But in our communities whenwe experience those things,
it's not that same responseof getting access to services.
It's actually more punitiveis what I heard from you,
(16:32):
Kimesha, from thatresearch that you shared.
And we know like since theCOVID pandemic, you know,
that even makes it more difficultfor victims to seek help,
you know, health systems and shelters,
you know, are becomingoverloaded, especially.
I continue to hear that from you, Shari.
Over the years, it's just like, you know,
there isn't enough beds inshelters in a major city
(16:54):
like Detroit.
You know, y'all haveyour own organizations
where, you know, funding hasbeen cut to organizations
which also is making it more difficult
for victims to accessthings like medical care,
shelter, mental health services,
but most important, like the basic needs.
Shari, I would love tohear what do survivors need
to heal and recover, Shari?
(17:14):
- From just a personal standpoint,
first of all, I think thatsurvivors need family and friends
who have empathy and compassion
because sometimes familymembers get tired of,
you know, listening to us.
They get tired of helpingus and they just get tired,
but we need them to haveempathy and compassion.
I also believe that what helped me
(17:35):
was open lines of communication.
Survivors need access to resources
that can be drawn on by a person
in order to function effectively
because when we have endured trauma,
we need those resources
and when they are not available to us,
it makes it so much harderfor us to just function
in our everyday lives.
(17:56):
We need those resourcesto be without hurdles
and without red tape.
And most of all, survivorsneed community members
who are aware andrecognize domestic violence
when it happens.
When you see something, say something.
Survivors need safeand affordable housing.
They need to be able to getout of a lease without penalty
(18:18):
when fleeing a domestic situation.
And last but not least, weneed trauma recovery centers
that have removed barriersto health and stability.
We need it to be focusedon healing communities
and interrupting cycles of violence.
Survivors can receive respectful,
compassionate and effective mental health
(18:38):
and medical services.
And these are the necessaryservices that I believe
that survivors need toheal and to recover.
- And thank you, Shari.
Kimesha, would love to hear from you.
You are over there in Dallas.
What do survivors need?
And would also love to hearwhat's currently available
for victims in Dallas, or, you know,
also what are some of thechallenges that you see?
(19:01):
- The shelters in the community.
I know I had to travelacross town 30, 45 minutes
because there were no bedsaccessible on my side of town.
Going over to the northside just to obtain shelter.
Counseling is very, very important.
(19:25):
A trauma specialist insidethat shelter is key.
A lot of times women aregetting some type of counseling,
but I don't think it's in depth enough
to resolve some of those psychological
and mental issues going on.
(19:46):
So mental health, substanceabuse facilities in the area
and those trauma recoverycenters are very key resources
that domestic violence survivors need
to get the necessary help healing.
And like she said, compassion.
(20:08):
Most of time we are blamed
for putting ourselves in a situation.
No one goes out and looks at a guy and say
oh, he looks like a great woman beater.
Nobody does that. He doesn'tpresent himself as that.
Taking the blame off the victim
should be a part of those resources,
(20:30):
letting that individual knowthat it's not their fault
and that's a part of their recovery
so the cycle of violencestops right there.
Educating that individualand their family members
about relationships.
This is not normal.
Violence is not a normal partof a healthy relationship.
(20:51):
It doesn't make it work better.
- I heard from the two of you, you know,
safe housing, transportation,you know, to get services.
I heard mental health services,
things like trauma recovery centers.
You know, over the past few years,
there's been a increase infunding for domestic violence.
(21:11):
Think about VOCA increase in 2015
that increased the cap from 757 million
to almost $2.3 billion
for organizations who areworking with survivors,
especially domestic violence.
Through the American Rescue Plan,
there are millions ofdollars coming into states
and communities for survivors.
(21:33):
I would love to hear from the two of you.
Shari, I know you run an organization,
Still Standing Against Domestic Violence
and Kimesha, you're on theground working with survivors.
Do you all think that the fundingthat's coming into states,
are those reaching thecommunities that are most hard?
Shari, start with you.
- Aswad, no, those funds are not.
(21:56):
They're not even tricklingdown into the underserved
to the people who are onthe margins of society.
They're not available there.
And currently in the city of Detroit,
you know, we have a lot of organizations
that provide domestic violence services.
However, there are gaps in the system.
(22:17):
There are also gaps and overlap
with the domestic violence organizations
that provide this service
because we are all working in silos.
And so there seems tobe like a competition.
Instead of us making room foreverybody, we are competing.
I have found that fundingresources are difficult to obtain
(22:40):
and it's not because themoney is not available.
Because the entity thathas control over the money
does not see the populationthat I serve as victims
or crime survivors,
they don't see us fit toreceive any of those fundings.
None of the money and theiroutreach and the services.
They just don't reach us,especially me at Still Standing.
(23:01):
I fund things out of my pocket
and the funding is just not available.
And if it is available,
the red tape and the restrictions
that you can use thatmoney for is so restrictive
that it really does notservice our survivors.
We can't pay their rent,
we can't pay their lightsor their water bill.
(23:21):
We can't buy their kids a pair of shoes.
We can't help them to get atire, you know, for their car.
We can't help them to get coatsor hats and gloves and boots
because that money that is supposed to be
for crime survivors, it's not available.
It just has too many restrictions
on what we can do with that.
(23:42):
Now we can get them a bus card,
but we can't get them a cardto go to the grocery store
so we can buy them a gas card,
but most of the people that we service,
they ride public transportation.
So we can't get them an Uber,can't get them a taxi cab
and so it's really like pointless.
(24:02):
If we cannot use those funds to be able
to effectively and efficientlyhelp the crime survivors,
what's the point?
- Thanks, Shari. What about you, Kimesha?
You know, do you think the funds
that are coming fromthe federal government
and at the state level for victim service,
are they reaching communities in Dallas,
especially communities hithard by crime and violence?
(24:24):
- No, I ask why.
I talk to a lot of grassroot organizations
like Shari herself
who fund their programsout of their own pockets
and really don't even waste any time
even asking for the funding
because the funding is not obtainable.
There is like she said, so much red tape
and that was one of my situations.
(24:45):
I didn't have time to fill out paperwork.
There were people who were in need.
I would rather comeout of my pocket myself
to get the funding to help those people
who wanted and needed the help
instead of trying to fill out a packet,
wait for that packet to get approved
and that funding is part ofthe lifeline to justice, right?
(25:08):
If we don't get the necessaryhealing, the recovery,
we're gonna be stuck inthat cycle of repeating
the same relationships,engaging in violence,
self-medicating to numb out
and escape from whatwe feel on the inside.
I believe that it's set upin a way to discourage us
(25:32):
so those underserved communities,
the brown and the Blackcommunities do not get the help.
They stay in suffering.They stay oppressed.
- Yeah and that unaddressedtrauma as you mentioned,
leads to so many other health issues,
but also, you know, for so many people,
(25:55):
it leads them to come incontact with the justice system.
I know there are so manysurvivors across the country
who are just like youwho've turned, you know,
your pain to power, who, you know,
who are survivors of domestic violence
and started your ownorganizations and went on to,
you know, have so many amazing careers.
So let's talk about y'all's leadership.
You both have startedorganizations, you know,
(26:16):
to be a channel for our solutions.
Kimesha, would love to hear from you.
You became a author, youare a self-esteem coach,
an empowerment speaker.
How did you get started in doing that
and what have you learned along the way?
- How did I get started?
I started because when I was going
through my counseling sessions,
(26:38):
I said there are otherwomen and teens out there
just like me who need thisinformation, who need the help.
And I just wanted toshare, I wanted to help.
And I said that to my counselor,
thinking I was gonna startlike two, three years later.
He was like no, start now.
I was like now?
(26:58):
You know, and I go to church that Sunday
and there's an ad in thebrochure for mentors.
So I started out mentoring unwed teens
and then I moved into thedomestic violence shelters
and emergency crisis centers,
mentoring domestic violence survivors.
(27:20):
And that's how I started,just really sharing tips,
encouraging them,holding them accountable,
being their support.
- Kimesha, for years,out of your experiences
and, you know, wantingto help other survivors,
like you provided thatpeer to peer support
that so many survivorsand families needed.
(27:41):
You actually, you know,went to those shelters
and worked with teens.
So you've been a victimservice provider for years.
Administrators who oversee funding,
they don't see the workthat you are doing.
They don't invest in thework that you're doing
and I think that's important.
You know, there are so manypeople across this country
who are, you know,doing such amazing work.
(28:01):
And Shari, you foundedStill Standing and Redeem.
Would love to hear fromyou, a three part question.
So how did you get started?
And also what have been thebarriers to services and funding
for smart organizations like yours
and what have you learned along the way?
- Okay well I got started in 2007
(28:24):
and the crazy thing is isthat I did not identify
with being a domestic violence victim.
And like Kimesha said, back in the '90s,
you know, I thought it, you know,
it wasn't called domesticviolence back then.
It was called a domestic dispute.
It was a family thingand so you handled it.
And so I moved fromWichita, Kansas to Detroit
(28:47):
and I started going
to obtain my associate'sdegree in criminal justice
and within that program,
I met a lady who had adomestic violence organization.
At that particular time, Iwas doing process serving
where I was serving PPOs topeople and serving civil suits.
And so she asked me if she could hire me
(29:07):
to serve her PPOs for herclients in her organization
and so I began to do that andI began to just shadow her.
And I started doing researchon what domestic violence was
and what it looked like and I was floored
because I was a victim anddidn't even realize it.
During that time thatI was going to school,
I met two other people whohad similar backgrounds as me.
(29:30):
One was sexual assault.
The other one was sexualassault and domestic violence.
And so we began to talk about, you know,
helping those people who were just like us
and since we were goinginto criminal justice,
you know, we thought hey,you know, this is it.
We can really help change people's lives.
And so we all came and satdown at my dining room table,
also my daughter as well,
(29:50):
because she is a childsurvivor of domestic violence.
And so the four of us satat my dining room table
and we came up with this planthat we were going to start
to help victims of domestic violence.
And that's what we started doing.
So I started volunteeringfor different organizations,
domestic violence organizations,
just to get a feel and the education
(30:11):
of what domestic violence was all about.
So I worked for the GoodwillIndustries of Greater Detroit.
They didn't have any women services there
and so the lady who I had metwhile I was going to school
went to Goodwill's and asked them,
they have a all men's program.
Why didn't they have women's services?
They said well, you know,they'd never had the need to
(30:34):
so she agreed that we would work for them
for a dollar a month.
You pay us a dollar a month
and let us come up with the curriculum
and the services for women.
And once that takes off,
then you can start to payus a salary and it blew up.
So I became a mentor and a coach
for those women who werein domestic violence
(30:56):
and sexual assault relationships.
Also, we only have one domesticviolence shelter in Detroit
and a lady at my churchasked me to come there
and share my testimony.
And I shared my testimony with the ladies
who were in the shelterand that was in 2011
and I've been going to thatshelter every week since 2013,
(31:20):
providing resources for thoseladies who are in the shelter
and I started what wecall an aftercare program.
So when those ladiescome out of the shelter,
then they come to theStill Standing organization
and we provide, you know, basic needs.
If they need GED,
if they need to learnhow to build a resume.
We also do a financial literacy class
that's called Financial Peace University
(31:41):
that helps them to learnhow to save and budget.
I've done that from 2007 until 2012.
And then the RedeemedBattering Intervention Program
was birthed.
That I was terrified.
I was terrified to thinkthat I could even begin
(32:02):
to help men who use violenceand abusive behaviors
and I almost died at the hand of a man.
That was one assignment that Ialmost just turned my back on
because of my fear.
But when I decided tostart doing research,
I started going to conferencesand it seems like emails
just started popping intomy email box of, you know,
(32:23):
they're having a training over here,
they're having a conference over there.
So I began to walk down that journey
of helping men who havechosen to use violence
and abusive behaviors.
So I have a contractwith 36 district courts.
They send the majority oftheir men who are charged
with intimate partnerviolence to my program
and I help them to be transformed
(32:43):
by the renewing of their minds.
I help them to relearnbecause we cannot unlearn
the violence that wemay have grown up with,
that we have seen and thatwe have even experienced,
but I can help them to relearn.
I could also help them torebuild their thought processes
and to replace what they have built.
And so that program has really taken off,
(33:05):
but some of the barriers that I have seen
with the women on the Still Standing side,
funding is the biggestbarrier because like Kimesha,
I'm gonna pay for it out of my pocket.
I'm not going to wait for somebody to say
well you need to fill out this,you need to apply for that.
No because by that time,that woman could be in danger
and her children could be in danger too
so I'm going to fund whateverI need to fund for that lady.
(33:29):
Now for the men, there's a big stigma
because these are mostly men of color
and nobody wants to help men of color
who use violence and/or abusive behaviors.
And that to me is just,
that is the biggest barrierthat I am facing right now.
And so this year I have decided
(33:51):
that I'm going to push helping the men
who use violence and abusive behaviors
because we can continue totalk about domestic violence
and victims of domestic violence
and the cycle of domestic violence,
but if we don't begin to help the men
and I'm not only just saying just men
because we also have women who use force.
I have a group for those women as well.
(34:13):
But the statistics saythat 95% of the people
who use battering or violentand abusive behaviors are men.
So we have to start helping the men.
You know, we wanna lookat men and we wanna say
what's wrong with you
when the question shouldbe what happened to you.
So when I ask those menwhat happened to them,
(34:36):
90% of the men that I service
are returning citizensor justice involved men
and they are also victimsof domestic abuse,
sexual abuse, they grewup in alcoholic homes,
they grew up in drug riddenhomes and they have been abused.
And so creating that safe space for them
(34:56):
to be able to come in andshare what happened to them,
the transformation is amazing.
And along the way, I havelearned that we are humans,
that no matter what we have done,
we are not our worst mistake.
And especially for men,I want them to know
(35:17):
that they are lovable andthat they are redeemable.
And for women, that theyare not the only ones
that have gone through this
and even though me doing thework and I did not identify
with being a victim and I almost died,
I can understand the womenbecause I have been there too,
but to be able to talk tothem and allow them to express
(35:38):
what they have went through
and how they feel about certain things,
it has taught me tojust be more empathetic
and more compassionate than I already am.
- Wow and Shari, that is so unique
to hear about your organization
not only work with women and children,
(35:59):
but also are working withmen that have caused harm.
Like for me, like that is public safety.
That is working with individualswho have caused harm,
individuals who have been victimized.
That is a form of public safety
that we don't invest inmuch across the country.
So as you know, there aremany key stakeholders,
(36:20):
you know, who arelistening to this podcast.
There are models, provenmodels, that work.
Shari, for you, you know,you work with survivors
and you work with peoplewho have caused harm.
You know, what would a traumainformed justice system
look like to you?
- It would include a whole lot of training
the staff to be welcomingand non-judgmental
(36:41):
and modifying physical environments
to create a sense of safety,
to help ensure thattrauma survivors benefit
from judicial interventions.
Treating individuals whothey come in contact with
with dignity and respect,
that all criminal justicesystem professionals
will be trained on howto understand trauma,
its effects and the manifestations
(37:03):
and will approach all interactions
through a trauma informed lens.
And because trauma is so prevalent,
trainings that provide opportunities
for all justice personnel
to explore their own experience of trauma
because if you can't help yourself,
if you don't know the traumasthat you have within yourself,
how can you help somebodythat comes before you
(37:26):
that has traumas?
So I would require that thattrauma informed justice system,
that every single person
would go through training
to experience their ownexperience of trauma
and that may help themto better understand
their own trauma andparticipants' behavior
and would also create asafe and healing environment
for all.
(37:47):
So the judges would be trauma informed.
They will expect the presence of trauma
and take care not to replicate it
and understand that it may affect
court participants' feelings and behaviors
and the trauma informedjudges, the court personnel,
attorneys, courtcoordinators, case workers
and even treatment providers
will ensure an individualized approach
(38:09):
that maximizes opportunities
for a positive treatment outcome
and the trauma informed justice systems,
the whole goal for me will beto fully engage participants
by minimizing perceived threats,avoiding retraumatization
and providing resources andsupporting healing and recovery.
- Simple solutions.
Listening to survivors, youknow, communication, empathy,
(38:35):
but also training for allindividuals in the justice system
and being trauma informed.
But one thing that you mentioned
that I think we often don'thear about is providing training
for people to recognize theirown trauma as a key step
cause many of us, you know,many judges, you know,
court personnel, even law enforcement
(38:55):
have experienced trauma in their life
and that went unresolved.
And so providing that trainingwhich will better help them
meet the needs of survivorsand getting access to services,
but also preventingdomestic violence as well
so thank you so much, Shari.
There are so many solutionsand you all are the experts
and that's who we need to be listening to,
(39:16):
people who have experiencedbeing survivors,
but also who are offeringso many solutions,
you know, to help stop the violence.
Kimesha, you know, for you, you know,
what are the solutionsin domestic violence
and support survivors?
What would be availableat the community level
for survivors?
- So here in Dallas County,we currently have 15 shelters
(39:39):
including the transitional housing.
So we definitely need more shelters.
You know, we're talkingabout 22,000 reported cases
in Dallas County.
15 shelters is not gonna meet that demand.
So we definitely need more shelters.
(40:00):
We need more mental health providers,
again, in those immediate communities,
underserved communities.
Education is a great piece too.
I know Shari mentioned training,
educating not only the officials,
but our teachers and ourpastors because again,
(40:22):
it's happening in the home andwhere are the people going?
They going to school andthey going to church.
Being able to identify that is very key.
Identifying with domestic violence
and having the conversation
or the first steps on an individual level,
getting that person to openup and say I need help,
(40:44):
until we start to have those conversations
in the home, at the schools,in the church, on the street,
the cycle will continue.
So instead of normalizingdomestic violence,
we need to normalize ahealthy relationship.
What does that look like?
(41:05):
No one has the right to hit you,
to call your name, to demeanyou in any type of way.
Speaking up and sayingthat you have experienced
domestic violence,
whether it's been a mixture of physical,
mental and emotional or just physical,
speaking up is the firstpoint of accountability
(41:26):
and actually reporting the incident.
Even if you don't think it's serious,
you have the right to speak up.
You have the right to feelsafe in your own home.
Not holding that person accountable
gives them the okay to do it again
and we don't want that to happen.
(41:48):
Speaking up is saying hey, I'm a person.
I have rights, I havefeelings, I deserve to be here
and I deserve to feel safe.
So don't hesitate to standup for what you believe in,
for what you feel that is rightand what is rightfully yours
and that's to feel safe in your own home.
(42:12):
- Shari, what would it meanto hold someone accountable?
- So you guys know that Ihold the men accountable
every single day that they sit before me
and so I just have asimple solution for them.
So to hold them accountable
would mean holding themaccountable for their actions,
their thoughts, theirwords and their deeds
towards other people
(42:33):
that are negative orviolent and/or abusive.
And it also involves themtaking responsibility
for their own actions andbeing able to explain why
and I keep it just as simple as that.
You have to be accountablefor everything that you do,
even your thought process.
And if your thought processand your self-talk is negative,
(42:55):
nine times out of 10 you'regoing to act out with negative.
So you have to be accountable for that.
Explain why you arebehaving in those manners.
- And that's how we, youknow, continue to decrease
domestic violence in communities,
by holding people accountable.
But most importantly,ensuring survivors get access
(43:16):
to the resource andservices that they need.
And both of you have workedwith survivors for decades.
You all talked about, you know,
the gaps, the barriers that exist.
You also offered up somany different solutions.
I would love to hear from you all
and think about thesurvivors and the families
that you all work with.
You know, what would it meanto help survivors' recovery?
(43:38):
If you could have a magic wand
that exists for you to do everything
that you could for asurvivor, what would that be?
What services would you provideand what would be the impact
that will have on a survivor and family
to help them recover?
Shari, let's start with you.
- Wow, you're giving me that magic wand?
- Yep, giving you the magic wand.
(44:00):
- That, the impact of just beingable to see people to live,
to be able to freely move about,
to not have to live in fear,to not have to live with lack,
could you imagine a worldwhere there was no violence,
where there were free flowing resources,
(44:20):
where people were ableto access those resources
when they needed andalso share with others?
That would be like heaven.
It would just be a place thatwould be filled with love
and peace and laughter,
where families, the man,the woman, the children,
you know, the grandmothers, the grandpas,
(44:40):
family would be family.
And you would be able toshare that with your neighbor,
share that with others,
that we are not hurting or harming people
with the words coming out ofour mouth or with our hands.
That impact would be, itwould just be amazing.
- What about you, Kimesha?
If you had that magic wand,what services would you provide
(45:04):
and what would be the impact
that would help survivors recover?
- When it comes to recovery,
I found that a lot ofsurvivors just wanna be heard.
I wanna get this story out.I wanna talk about this pain.
So when you think about recovery,
again, it's having thecompassion to listen
(45:25):
and understand what thisperson is going through
because it's hard when youmix in violence and love.
That's a hard love storyto try to understand,
but having the compassionand understanding
and just allowing thatperson to express themself,
allow them to draw out that picture
(45:47):
of what they went throughand not be judged,
not be condemned because Ididn't leave the first time.
It took me seven times or 17 times.
Allowing them to be free mentally
from the bondage of domestic violence.
(46:08):
Healing is so key to the recovery,
yet it is the one thing thatwe are missing, the healing.
- And that's what, you know,the joys of this podcast
is to help people heal.
So many people acrossthe country, you know,
(46:29):
who will listen to you all'sstory, listen to you all's work
will be like you, Kimesha,who say maybe I can,
you know, start sharing orstart work with survivors
two years from now.
There are survivors who are listening
who's gonna start that journey tomorrow.
All right and the same for you, Shari,
just, you know, think about, you know,
your organization of notonly working with survivors,
but working with peoplewho have caused harm.
(46:51):
When we think about safety,when we think about a community,
you know, these are the things
that we have to listen to each other.
We have to ensure that there's a community
that can wrap its arm around each other.
And most important, we have toinvest in these communities.
You know, we've took somany billions of dollars,
so many resources away from communities
(47:14):
and invested more intocriminal justice system
that haven't made us any safer.
So now is the time to reverse that.
You know, we need to take money
out of the criminal justice system
and invest more in communities
so all survivors can get the support
and services that they need to heal,
but also making sure thatpeople who have caused harm,
that they're receiving themental health services,
(47:36):
the trauma recovery services,
to help them heal andalso getting them access
to jobs and housing whichalways as you all know,
reduce so much stressthat people go through
when they're not able toprovide stability and safety
for their family.
And, you know, we have somany people across the country
that have experienced domestic violence
(47:56):
or working to support survivors
listening to today's podcast.
For closer remarks, Kimesha and Shari,
Kimesha, I'll start with you.
Is there anything thatyou would like to share
with survivors that may be listening?
What's that one thing or twothat you would like to share
with survivors that are listening today?
- Well I often say thatwe don't have an epidemic
(48:19):
of domestic violence.
We have a epidemic of the lack of love.
The love for yourself andthe love for one another
is the key to solving orresolving domestic violence.
Once you learn how to love yourself,
you can properly love someone else.
(48:39):
- Love is the way to go.
What about you, Shari?
- I would tell survivorsthat they are not alone
and that there is helpavailable if they want it.
I would also tell thosewho are causing harm
that they are also not alone
(49:00):
and there is also helpavailable if they want it.
- Love and you're not alone,there's help available
and so many other solutionsthat you all shared today
so thank you so much Kimesha and Shari
for sharing your stories
and how you've channeledyour pain into power.
Thank you for the work that you're doing,
(49:21):
not only in your respectivecities and states,
but also across the country
as leaders of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice.
And thank you everyone who are tuning in
listening today's podcast.
For more informationabout domestic violence,
you can visit organizations
like Still StandingAgainst Domestic Violence.
You also can go to coachingbykimesha.com.
(49:43):
You also can find more resources available
by the National CoalitionAgainst Domestic Violence
at www.ncadv.org
or visit the Domestic Violence Hotline
at www.hotline.org.
If you are immediatedanger, please call 911.
(50:04):
For more help, you can also call
the national Domestic ViolenceHotline at 1-800-799-7233.
Or you can text the word start to 88788.
And also to become a member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
join our email list.
Visit the website at www.cssj.org
(50:24):
or you can text us right now
by texting the word survivor to 97779.
Remember, you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcast, Spotify andother streaming platforms.
We are healing through action.
And again, thank you, Shari andKimesha for joining us today
because we know that whensurvivors speak, change happens.
(50:50):
♪ And when the worldgets a little too hard ♪
♪ Wipe your eyes your eyesput away your sorrow ♪
♪ When it's war I'llbe leading the charge ♪
♪ And I'll be stillfighting for you tomorrow ♪
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