July 2, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of Crime Survivors Speak, survivor advocate and community leader Elle Travis joins Aswad Thomas for a powerful conversation about survival, systemic failure, and the urgent need for change. A survivor of sexual violence, Elle shares how her own experience—compounded by the Detroit rape kit backlog and harmful biases within the justice system—led her to found Hands on Healing Detroit, a grassroots organization that supports survivors and uplifts community healing. Together, Elle and Aswad explore how Black women are often denied their status as victims, how trauma and victimization are deeply interconnected, and why true justice must include both accountability and care. Elle offers a message of resilience, reminding survivors that they are not alone—and that healing is not only possible, but powerful.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Crime Survivor Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national network of over 200,000victims of crime from across the country.
If you haven't already subscribed tostay up to date on the latest episodes,
you can do that on YouTube, ApplePodcasts, Spotify, and other streaming
(00:23):
services by clicking the link on yourscreen or going to the website at
www.cssj.org/ podcast.
Another amazing guestfor you all here today.
I'm talking with someone from my hometown.
Our guest today is Elle Travis.
Elle is a survivor, advocate and acommunity leader, based in Michigan.
(00:47):
Elle, after overcoming personal traumaand system involvement, Elle now dedicates
her life to supporting others throughhealing, access to services, things
like victim compensation, reentry,and also survivor-centered justice.
She's a passionate voice for change,working to break cycles of harm
and build safer, more compassionatecommunities in her hometown of Detroit.
(01:11):
Elle is also the founder ofHands On Healing Detroit.
And guess what, y'all, I knowyou all are not surprised.
Elle also serve as the CSSJDetroit chapter coordinator.
Elle, welcome to the podcast.
Hi Aswad, thank you for having me.
It's awesome to have you on today,and thank you for taking time out of
your busy schedule to speak with us.
(01:33):
So Elle, before we get into your story,your advocacy work, your organization, can
you tell us a little bit about what bringsyou joy these days or something in your
daily life that helps you stay grounded?
These days, I'm a grandma.
My grandson will be four monthstomorrow, and he is just, he
(01:58):
is the bee's knees, Aswad.
I'm, like parenthood bringsyou a certain level of joy.
I thought that was it until I sawhim and that's just joy every day.
Like I'm smiling right nowjust thinking about him.
Outside of that, daily grounding.
I do meditation, I do yoga.
(02:21):
And since I've been practicing yoga,I guess I'm a yogi, if you will.
I notice a big difference inmood every day, being able to
handle our daily volatility.
Those things really help.
That's awesome.
congratulations on becoming a grandmother.
And also, as you mentioned,those self-care practices.
(02:44):
I'm looking forward to you one dayfacilitating one of our Wellness
Wednesdays activities and takingsurvivors through meditation or yoga.
I wanna transition to hearing alittle bit more about your story.
Unfortunately, like far too manysurvivors of sexual assault, you
experienced the dual traumas of sexualviolence followed by the justice
(03:05):
system's failure to provide you with thesafety and accountability you deserve.
Can you tell us more about yourstory and how that happened?
Sure.
Well, I'm a survivor, of sexual assault.
When I filed my report and had my, sexualassault evidence kit, or a rape kit done,
(03:27):
the Detroit police, failed to take mykit to the testing facility to start the
investigation process as per protocol.
My kit was taken to a warehouse and justsat there with many other rape kits.
I'm a survivor of what's knownas the National Rape Kit Backlog.
(03:49):
Here in Detroit, it's the DetroitRape Kit Backlog, where I'm part of
a class of 11,341 other survivorsdiscarded by law enforcement.
I'm part of a class of almost 500,000men and women across the country.
So, the end result is ourcommunities pay for it because
(04:12):
we're overrun with predators.
Wow.
And, thank you for sharing.
I wanted to back up to make surethat our audience heard you.
So you are a. Survivor of sexual assault.
When you went to get yourrape kit done, that kit wasn't
taken to an actual facility.
(04:34):
It was taken to a warehouse.
I think this happened in 2009where over 11,000, 11,341, rape
kits were not tested in Detroit.
And then across the country there areover 500,000 men and women who's part
(04:55):
of this horrible rape kit backlog.
Since then, I think the state of Michiganhas tried to test most of the rape kits.
Through that testing, there's been
efforts to prosecute some of theoffenders implicated by the DNA evidence
because of the testing, which has alsoresulted in convictions and justice
(05:15):
for many survivors but, not you?
Yes.
I believe from our conversations,the man who sexually assaulted you
was acquitted in 2017, despite beingimplicated as a serial offender.
Can you tell us more about whatthat process was like for you and
also the many survivors who waspart of that horrible experience of
(05:35):
not having their rape kit tested.
My serial rapist is currently free.
He was found not guilty, despite havingmultiple rape kits sharing his DNA.
There are many loopholes including thestatute of limitations here in Michigan,
regarding sexual assault at that time.
(05:57):
Because of that loophole, many kidsdidn't even get tested or, you know, some
survivors never even got to go throughthe legal process that I went through.
But going through the legal process asa sexual assault survivor and connected
(06:19):
to the rape kit backlog, I was basicallyblamed for not only my sexual assault, but
why it took so long to get tocourt because the court proceedings
didn't start until 10 years after myactual sexual assault by this man.
And, I would also add, I'm amultiple sexual assault survivor.
(06:43):
My last two sexual assaults werethe ones I reported to the police.
So those two
instances had me with two separaterape kits in the Detroit backlog.
Both of my rapists are free.
This situation geneticallyidentified almost a thousand serial
(07:05):
rapists with DNA connections to 39other states outside of Detroit.
I should say.
Only about 1% of that populationis actually incarcerated now
after the court proceedings.
So the numbers stand around almost 300.
When I came outta court in 2017, therewere only 62 rapists incarcerated.
(07:30):
I knew that majority would endup on the street still with us.
So that was actually my catalystand why I started speaking
out and became who I am today.
Eight years ago, a couple of days ago, wasthe day that my verdict came in which said
not guilty on three counts, which allowedhim to be free, and tomorrow will be eight
(07:53):
years since my serial rapist was released.
I'm just grateful that I've been able tofight and make major changes that will
help people to not have my experience.
Wow.
Just your commitment to beinga voice for so many survivors,
(08:15):
not just in Detroit, not just inMichigan, but across the country.
And I believe also, as you mentioned,this is not just a Detroit issue.
I remember a few years ago Cleveland,as well, and a lot of major
cities experience this backlog, right?
especially, victims especially who areAfrican American or black, survivors
(08:35):
are often denied even the recognitionof being, a survivor, often denied.
access to support andprotection that they deserve.
Especially black women who are often,hypersexualized and disbelieved when
they experience, sexual violence.
That bias shows up everywhere, evenin institutions meant to protect us.
(08:58):
So Elle, can you share how thatdynamic showed up in your own
experience and how it shaped theway you were treated as a survivor.
Everything you said, that's exactlywhat opened the door for the
National rape kit backlog to happen.
First and foremost, sexual assault,intimate partner violence or domestic
(09:21):
violence, especially in our communities,aren't taken very seriously.
Because of these biases and mentalities,when we do report, we're often blamed
or treated as the criminal versus thevictim, which was my case personally.
(09:41):
I was treated like I essentiallyassaulted myself or, a lot of us were
treated like we were prostitutes ortold directly by law enforcement that
we were prostitutes, homeless or crazy.
Just a major dismissal of us as a wholeand our testimony of what happened to us.
(10:08):
Due to the criminalization but thehypersexualization on the other end,
black women can't be victims and thatdoes go through all of the system.
I remember even before my notificationphone call, I was doing my own follow
up regarding my sexual assaultslike you shared with your situation.
(10:29):
When we come out of the hospital afterhaving our sexual assault evidence
kits done in these interviews andthings, there is still a crime scene
when it comes to sexual assault.
Our bodies are the crime scene, so wehave to deal with multiple levels of
intrusion and violation, and this isafter the sexual assault has already
(10:52):
occurred 'cause we don't want whathappened to us to happen to anybody else.
And that's why we take the steps ofreporting and go through these extra
intrusions to help somebody elsenot end up where we currently are.
But when you're dismissed,that doesn't happen.
And then you watch in real timethe same situation you endured
(11:16):
continue to happen in your community.
That's why I do a lot of work inharm reduction and trauma informed
interactions with the community, because
these things play a factor in why we don'tget properly serviced in these areas.
To reduce harm, I speak with lawenforcement, hospital-based systems.
(11:41):
I believe in informed person-centered,survivor-centered interactions
in all of these spaces.
Anywhere where there's a connectionor involvement with a survivor.
It should be trauma informed, and youshould be trying to have as least harmful
interaction with this person as possiblebecause they're already distraught.
(12:06):
Why would you want to make that worse?
Out of your direct experience,you're now starting to fill the
gap in supporting other survivors,even providing training to law
enforcement and other victim services.
Most recently, you foundedyour own organization called
Hands On Healing Detroit.
(12:26):
Can you tell us a little bit about,what made you develop that organization?
Also, could you talk about,what are some of the services
that you provide to survivors?
Hands On Healing was born out ofme already being in the community
doing the work, providing services.
I provide services in the community,for survivors of all crime.
(12:50):
Given the area I'm in beingon the east side of Detroit,
gun violence, intimate partnerviolence, of course, sexual assault.
I mainly provide leads and referrals tosupport services, wraparound services,
such as food, clothing, workforcedevelopment training or things like
(13:12):
that so they could start reapplying forjobs, any service in the community that
helps survivors regain their footing,you know, and help them back on the
path to self-sufficiency and wholeness.
I provide those by wayof leads and referrals.
I also do case management forcertain clients to help them or
(13:39):
support them as they rebuild, kindof hold them accountable as they
take the steps to rebuild in theaftermath of crime and trauma.
I currently have about fiveprogram participants that I
do work with, case management.
I'm also CP certified, so that'sthe address confidentiality program.
(14:02):
I'm certified through the MichiganAttorney General and that is a extra
safety mechanism for those who want toconceal their address from the public.
This program actually would've
helped me tremendously if it had beenavailable while I was going through
(14:25):
my court process and in the aftermathwith my serial rapist being free.
Once you go through a court case, allof your information becomes public.
So I still deal with harassment and thingslike that from my rapist and his family.
So this program, the ACP program,will actually help survivors not have
(14:48):
to experience harassment and havefull safety and protection at home.
Wow.
that's incredible.
So you founded this organization providingleads and referrals, basic needs like
food, clothing, wraparound services,helping people access jobs, you know,
(15:08):
through workforce, development, helpingsurvivors on their path to recovery.
And also providing case management,also, you know, helping survivors
get support from the ACP program.
I'm curious with this work that you'redoing in your organization, are you
supported by the state of Michigan,whether it is state or local funding.
(15:29):
How are you doing such tremendous work?
I'm actually unfunded.
I don't receive anysupport from the state.
I do accept in kind donations, whichhelp a lot, especially in crisis
situations where I might have to payfor a hotel room for the night, for
(15:49):
a IPV survivor, escaping a domesticsituation or a sexual assault survivor
who doesn't feel safe returning home.
A lot of people think that sexualassaults happen out in public
and a stranger did it, and it'sin the public space and things.
(16:10):
Most sexual assaults happen eitherin the person's home or in a very
close proximity to a person's home.
So, once you lose that sense ofsafety where you're supposed to
find your peace, it's hard fora lot of people to return there.
I do also provide crisis interventionservices, like I said, such as emergency
(16:33):
hotel rooms, so in kind donations.
But outside of that, I'mout of my own pocket.
So if you are listening, if you areout there in Michigan, please reach out
to support this amazing organization,called Hands On Healing Detroit.
Please reach out to Elle and Ellewill share her contact information
before we wrap up today's episode.
(16:54):
Elle, just incredible work that youare doing providing direct services,
but also, knowing you the past fewyears, you are one of the leading
survivor advocates in the state ofMichigan and across the country.
So I wanna talk a little bitabout your leadership in this
work and your advocacy as well.
You've taken your lived experience andturned it into leadership, in advocacy.
(17:16):
Can you talk about how you got involvedin advocacy and what motivated you
to speak out and support others?
I just did it.
I came outta court.
I was actually still crying andshook up from the verdict, but my
first thought was, what if thiswas to happen to my daughter?
(17:39):
At the time, my daughter was 15 years old.
She had only been 15 for roughlyabout a month, and I had her at 15.
So it was a whole full circletype moment and I just really
was like, what would I do?
Once I realized, of course I can'tprotect her from experiencing things,
(18:03):
so I'm like, I can't protect her.
But if something like this were toever happen to her, I can make sure
that what she's going to need exists.
Because when I came outtacourt, it didn't exist.
Trauma recovery centers.
Even the status of the Crime Victim'sCompensation Act here in Michigan,
(18:24):
there were a lot of things incomplete disarray causing bigger gaps
of care for survivors like myself.
So once I came with thatrealization, it was like the
least I could do is speak out.
And I started speaking out tobring awareness in the community
(18:46):
that, hey, we have predators here.
Hide your kids, protect them thebest you can, protect yourself.
But also, like I said, those who havealready been impacted, we need support
services to help us rebuild our lives, tohelp us if we need to relocate or whatever
(19:07):
we may need to heal from this situation.
And that's what started my advocacy, asa survivor rights advocate and activist,
also a community based activist advocate.
It even led to policy work.
So I'm also a policy advocate.
Any way that my story and my experiencecan be utilized to help make sure that
(19:36):
things like this don't continue to happen.
That's basically what I do especiallywhen it comes to harm reduction backlog
reform, prison reentry and reform, becauseall of those areas also impact survivors.
Every area needs to be done in thebest way possible, so it has a more
(20:03):
positive impact on our communitiesand on survivors themselves.
And that's all I do.
That's my focus.
I want to follow up onsomething that you just said.
You know many people, when theyhear that survivors and victims are
also advocating for criminal justicereform and rehabilitation, many
(20:23):
people are surprised about that.
Your work often centers on creating spacefor those who've been incarcerated to
find healing and community after release.
Why is that part of the survivor movementof helping those who have came in contact
with the justice system, why is that soimportant for you in the work that you do?
(20:47):
It's important for a number of reasons.
The main reason is, most perpetratorsof crime are also victims themselves.
Once a person is victimized, if they don'tget the proper services, counseling, other
support services that they need directlyafter that instance happens, pathways to
(21:13):
healing, be it self-medication or, youknow, walling it up or retaliation, all
of these lead to now that same personthat was a victim is now also a criminal
because they perpetrated a crime in theaftermath of their own victimization.
(21:35):
Once I realize personally, evenwith things like sexual assault,
domestic violence, all of thesethings, most of our perpetrators,
they were also sexually assaulted.
They were also more than likely asecondhand survivor of domestic violence.
(21:57):
Once you realize that the perpetratorsof crime are also victims themselves,
and then they were victimized alsoby the system, because they don't
get the help and support that theyneed once they're incarcerated.
If they get the help and support thatthey need when they come back into
(22:18):
our communities, it is better foreverybody because they're less likely
to continue down that path of cryingbecause now they have skills, they could
go to work and support their families,
which is also another way howvictims end up becoming criminals.
Even if it is, selling drugs or robberyafter you're victimized by a crime,
(22:45):
you can't work, you can't supportyour family, and you don't have these
support services or access to them.
That creates a desperation becausenow you're in poverty, which
poverty also is a form of trauma.
Which leads to crime and down that, youknow, crime and victimization cycle.
(23:07):
So in an effort to break the cycle, we allneed resources, whether you're on the one
end as a returning citizen, or if you'restill in the community as a survivor.
If we all have the resources that we need,
it'll be less likely for victims to end upbecoming perpetrators of crime, and it'll
(23:28):
be less likely for returning citizenswhen they return into our communities
for them to keep up the perpetuation ofthis cycle of crime and victimization.
Elle, you just gave us acrime policy workshop on the
failures of the justice system.
(23:49):
And you talked about, one of thefoundational problems with the way
crime policy has been built in thiscountry is that it, it has never been
designed to protect all people from harm.
Most people who come in contact with thejustice system often have been victims
themselves far before they even camein contact with the justice system.
(24:13):
And solutions to stop this cycleof violence, the solution to stop
over-incarceration is by simplyhelping people heal and recover,
which prevents crime from happening.
Being able to make surepeople got housing, jobs,
things that promote economic stabilityare like the simple solutions to
help us stop crime and violence inall communities The simple solutions
(24:38):
that's needed to prevent incarcerationand also to prevent crime as well.
I have two more questions for you.
Thinking about the survivors who you'vebeen able to connect with from the
rape kit backlog, in April, you hostedyour second event, as part of the
voices from the backlog event seriesto celebrate and honor those survivors
(25:02):
affected by the rape kit backlog.
Can you tell us a little bit about thatevent and why was it important for you to
have that event again for the second time?
Thank you for bringing that up.
The event was amazing.
I don't know if you saw any of thepress coverage, but it was phenomenal.
(25:22):
There were several survivors.
There were storytelling sessions.
We did a healing vigil.
I also unveiled 11,341 seashells, whichis the Detroit Rape Kit backlog here.
I started collecting thoseseashells after the first voices
(25:44):
from the backlog in April, 2019.
To finally show that publiclywas an amazing feeling in itself.
I also had keepsake gifts for survivors.
So the purpose of the event was just tohonor and celebrate survivors of sexual
assault and survivors of the DetroitRape Kit backlog, because we haven't been
(26:10):
acknowledged, we haven't been seen, heard.
There has been no accountability, truly.
Everyone has their own level of impact.
By the grace of God, I was ableto come through it with enough
strength to do everything thatI've done in this eight years.
(26:32):
But some people are addictedto heavy drugs and narcotics.
A lot of people have overdosed.
The suicide rate in our littleniche community is extremely high.
The incarceration rate and our samelittle niche community is actually
(26:53):
higher than the conviction ratefor that of our serial rapist.
They're about 3% of survivorsconnected to the rape kit
backlog that are incarcerated,where there's really only about
roughly 1.5% of our rapists andserial rapists incarcerated.
(27:14):
So the importance of this event forme is I know several survivors of
the backlog that are no longer here.
They're deceased.
I felt to do this event, to honor us,to empower us, to connect us with other
resources that now exist in the communitythat can help further our healing
(27:38):
journey and the effort to save lives.
So less of us feel that aloneto where it's like, I don't
want to be here no more.
I'm also a suicide survivor myself.
My last suicide attemptwas January of 2020.
So I know that struggle personally,and I felt this event, although most
(28:03):
people might say it was small orinsignificant, it helped save a life.
It help show a survivor that they're notalone and that somebody cares about them
enough to not only fight and advocate forthem, but to give them this little moment.
I had a comedian there becauselaughter is medicine and in my
(28:26):
opinion, it is the best medicine.
So why not have this event we can set,you know, this heavy thing down for three
hours and just love on each other, enjoyeach other, laugh and eat some good food.
Yes.
Amazing, amazing media coverageand also just, I just appreciate
partnering with you, in this work,not just on the legislative work, but
(28:49):
building community with survivors.
And also, it was an honor for CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice to
help sponsor and partner on that event.
I know it's gonna be an annual event.
CSCJ will continue to helpsupport that event, as well.
So just, Elle, thank you so much for allthe incredible work that you are doing.
My last question, for those that arelistening to this episode, for those
(29:11):
who know your story, know your work,those who don't know you, what message
do you most want other survivors,especially those who feel overlooked
or unheard to take from your story.
You are not alone, even at yourloneliest you're not alone.
(29:35):
We've all been there.
Stay grounded, stay prayerful andkeep that fight within yourself.
That fire is going to get youthrough the darkest moments that
come with healing and recovery.
(29:55):
A lot of people don't want to talkabout healing and recovery is dark,
is ugly, is scary, but it is worth it.
So never let anybody discount or notvalidate your healing and your story.
You matter, and your healing matters.
(30:16):
Thank you, thank you so much, Elle.
Wise words from someone that have,you know, taken her pain and, and made
it her purpose, not only for herself,her family, but for so many survivors
and communities across the stateof Michigan and across the country.
Elle, there may be people whoare listening to this episode
(30:38):
and want to support your work.
We hope there are foundations andorganizations that can help support your
work through funding and also donations.
How can people connect with youand support your work in Detroit?
They can connect with me through email.
My email isiamelle@handsonhealingdetroit.org,
(31:03):
or through Facebook.
My Facebook information is Travis IamElle.
Healing With Purpose is my healingcommunity that I constructed on Facebook.
they'll see a picture, and ifthose are ways that they can
(31:23):
connect with me also via telephone.
My organizational phone number is248-794-0067 and that's a Hands
On Healing Detroit's phone number.
So thank you so much Elle.
If you all want to support Elle's work,make sure you get in contact, with
(31:46):
her to support the amazing work she'sdoing on behalf of Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice, but also mostimportantly, for starting an amazing
organization, Hands On Healing Detroit.
Elle, thank you so much.
It's been a wonderful conversationto get to know you a little bit more,
but also, for you to inspire others.
(32:07):
In this, work.
thank you so much for joiningus on this episode of the
Crime Survivors Speak podcast.
If you haven't already, you canbecome a member of the Crime
Survivor For Safety and JusticeDetroit chapter that's led by Elle.
You can go to our website atwww.cssj.org, or you can join a chapter
(32:29):
near you or our national network.
Remember, you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, andother streaming platforms as well.
We are always healing through action.
And as we end each of these episodes, ElleI want to test you with this saying, when
(32:50):
survivors speak.
Change happens.
There you go.
When survivor speak, changehappens and change is happening.
Thank you all so much forjoining today's episode.
We'll talk to you soon.
I'm looking forward to more ofthese conversations with amazing
survivor leaders across the country.
Thank you.
Talk to you later.
Welcome to Crime Survivor Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national network of over 200,000victims of crime from across the country.
If you haven't already subscribed tostay up to date on the latest episodes,
you can do that on YouTube, ApplePodcasts, Spotify, and other streaming
(00:23):
services by clicking the link on yourscreen or going to the website at
www.cssj.org/ podcast.
Another amazing guestfor you all here today.
I'm talking with someone from my hometown.
Our guest today is Elle Travis.
Elle is a survivor, advocate and acommunity leader, based in Michigan.
(00:47):
Elle, after overcoming personal traumaand system involvement, Elle now dedicates
her life to supporting others throughhealing, access to services, things
like victim compensation, reentry,and also survivor-centered justice.
She's a passionate voice for change,working to break cycles of harm
and build safer, more compassionatecommunities in her hometown of Detroit.
(01:11):
Elle is also the founder ofHands On Healing Detroit.
And guess what, y'all, I knowyou all are not surprised.
Elle also serve as the CSSJDetroit chapter coordinator.
Elle, welcome to the podcast.
Hi Aswad, thank you for having me.
It's awesome to have you on today,and thank you for taking time out of
your busy schedule to speak with us.
(01:33):
So Elle, before we get into your story,your advocacy work, your organization, can
you tell us a little bit about what bringsyou joy these days or something in your
daily life that helps you stay grounded?
These days, I'm a grandma.
My grandson will be four monthstomorrow, and he is just, he
(01:58):
is the bee's knees, Aswad.
I'm, like parenthood bringsyou a certain level of joy.
I thought that was it until I sawhim and that's just joy every day.
Like I'm smiling right nowjust thinking about him.
Outside of that, daily grounding.
I do meditation, I do yoga.
(02:21):
And since I've been practicing yoga,I guess I'm a yogi, if you will.
I notice a big difference inmood every day, being able to
handle our daily volatility.
Those things really help.
That's awesome.
congratulations on becoming a grandmother.
And also, as you mentioned,those self-care practices.
(02:44):
I'm looking forward to you one dayfacilitating one of our Wellness
Wednesdays activities and takingsurvivors through meditation or yoga.
I wanna transition to hearing alittle bit more about your story.
Unfortunately, like far too manysurvivors of sexual assault, you
experienced the dual traumas of sexualviolence followed by the justice
(03:05):
system's failure to provide you with thesafety and accountability you deserve.
Can you tell us more about yourstory and how that happened?
Sure.
Well, I'm a survivor, of sexual assault.
When I filed my report and had my, sexualassault evidence kit, or a rape kit done,
(03:27):
the Detroit police, failed to take mykit to the testing facility to start the
investigation process as per protocol.
My kit was taken to a warehouse and justsat there with many other rape kits.
I'm a survivor of what's knownas the National Rape Kit Backlog.
(03:49):
Here in Detroit, it's the DetroitRape Kit Backlog, where I'm part of
a class of 11,341 other survivorsdiscarded by law enforcement.
I'm part of a class of almost 500,000men and women across the country.
So, the end result is ourcommunities pay for it because
(04:12):
we're overrun with predators.
Wow.
And, thank you for sharing.
I wanted to back up to make surethat our audience heard you.
So you are a. Survivor of sexual assault.
When you went to get yourrape kit done, that kit wasn't
taken to an actual facility.
(04:34):
It was taken to a warehouse.
I think this happened in 2009where over 11,000, 11,341, rape
kits were not tested in Detroit.
And then across the country there areover 500,000 men and women who's part
(04:55):
of this horrible rape kit backlog.
Since then, I think the state of Michiganhas tried to test most of the rape kits.
Through that testing, there's been
efforts to prosecute some of theoffenders implicated by the DNA evidence
because of the testing, which has alsoresulted in convictions and justice
(05:15):
for many survivors but, not you?
Yes.
I believe from our conversations,the man who sexually assaulted you
was acquitted in 2017, despite beingimplicated as a serial offender.
Can you tell us more about whatthat process was like for you and
also the many survivors who waspart of that horrible experience of
(05:35):
not having their rape kit tested.
My serial rapist is currently free.
He was found not guilty, despite havingmultiple rape kits sharing his DNA.
There are many loopholes including thestatute of limitations here in Michigan,
regarding sexual assault at that time.
(05:57):
Because of that loophole, many kidsdidn't even get tested or, you know, some
survivors never even got to go throughthe legal process that I went through.
But going through the legal process asa sexual assault survivor and connected
(06:19):
to the rape kit backlog, I was basicallyblamed for not only my sexual assault, but
why it took so long to get tocourt because the court proceedings
didn't start until 10 years after myactual sexual assault by this man.
And, I would also add, I'm amultiple sexual assault survivor.
(06:43):
My last two sexual assaults werethe ones I reported to the police.
So those two
instances had me with two separaterape kits in the Detroit backlog.
Both of my rapists are free.
This situation geneticallyidentified almost a thousand serial
(07:05):
rapists with DNA connections to 39other states outside of Detroit.
I should say.
Only about 1% of that populationis actually incarcerated now
after the court proceedings.
So the numbers stand around almost 300.
When I came outta court in 2017, therewere only 62 rapists incarcerated.
(07:30):
I knew that majority would endup on the street still with us.
So that was actually my catalystand why I started speaking
out and became who I am today.
Eight years ago, a couple of days ago, wasthe day that my verdict came in which said
not guilty on three counts, which allowedhim to be free, and tomorrow will be eight
(07:53):
years since my serial rapist was released.
I'm just grateful that I've been able tofight and make major changes that will
help people to not have my experience.
Wow.
Just your commitment to beinga voice for so many survivors,
(08:15):
not just in Detroit, not just inMichigan, but across the country.
And I believe also, as you mentioned,this is not just a Detroit issue.
I remember a few years ago Cleveland,as well, and a lot of major
cities experience this backlog, right?
especially, victims especially who areAfrican American or black, survivors
(08:35):
are often denied even the recognitionof being, a survivor, often denied.
access to support andprotection that they deserve.
Especially black women who are often,hypersexualized and disbelieved when
they experience, sexual violence.
That bias shows up everywhere, evenin institutions meant to protect us.
(08:58):
So Elle, can you share how thatdynamic showed up in your own
experience and how it shaped theway you were treated as a survivor.
Everything you said, that's exactlywhat opened the door for the
National rape kit backlog to happen.
First and foremost, sexual assault,intimate partner violence or domestic
(09:21):
violence, especially in our communities,aren't taken very seriously.
Because of these biases and mentalities,when we do report, we're often blamed
or treated as the criminal versus thevictim, which was my case personally.
(09:41):
I was treated like I essentiallyassaulted myself or, a lot of us were
treated like we were prostitutes ortold directly by law enforcement that
we were prostitutes, homeless or crazy.
Just a major dismissal of us as a wholeand our testimony of what happened to us.
(10:08):
Due to the criminalization but thehypersexualization on the other end,
black women can't be victims and thatdoes go through all of the system.
I remember even before my notificationphone call, I was doing my own follow
up regarding my sexual assaultslike you shared with your situation.
(10:29):
When we come out of the hospital afterhaving our sexual assault evidence
kits done in these interviews andthings, there is still a crime scene
when it comes to sexual assault.
Our bodies are the crime scene, so wehave to deal with multiple levels of
intrusion and violation, and this isafter the sexual assault has already
(10:52):
occurred 'cause we don't want whathappened to us to happen to anybody else.
And that's why we take the steps ofreporting and go through these extra
intrusions to help somebody elsenot end up where we currently are.
But when you're dismissed,that doesn't happen.
And then you watch in real timethe same situation you endured
(11:16):
continue to happen in your community.
That's why I do a lot of work inharm reduction and trauma informed
interactions with the community, because
these things play a factor in why we don'tget properly serviced in these areas.
To reduce harm, I speak with lawenforcement, hospital-based systems.
(11:41):
I believe in informed person-centered,survivor-centered interactions
in all of these spaces.
Anywhere where there's a connectionor involvement with a survivor.
It should be trauma informed, and youshould be trying to have as least harmful
interaction with this person as possiblebecause they're already distraught.
(12:06):
Why would you want to make that worse?
Out of your direct experience,you're now starting to fill the
gap in supporting other survivors,even providing training to law
enforcement and other victim services.
Most recently, you foundedyour own organization called
Hands On Healing Detroit.
(12:26):
Can you tell us a little bit about,what made you develop that organization?
Also, could you talk about,what are some of the services
that you provide to survivors?
Hands On Healing was born out ofme already being in the community
doing the work, providing services.
I provide services in the community,for survivors of all crime.
(12:50):
Given the area I'm in beingon the east side of Detroit,
gun violence, intimate partnerviolence, of course, sexual assault.
I mainly provide leads and referrals tosupport services, wraparound services,
such as food, clothing, workforcedevelopment training or things like
(13:12):
that so they could start reapplying forjobs, any service in the community that
helps survivors regain their footing,you know, and help them back on the
path to self-sufficiency and wholeness.
I provide those by wayof leads and referrals.
I also do case management forcertain clients to help them or
(13:39):
support them as they rebuild, kindof hold them accountable as they
take the steps to rebuild in theaftermath of crime and trauma.
I currently have about fiveprogram participants that I
do work with, case management.
I'm also CP certified, so that'sthe address confidentiality program.
(14:02):
I'm certified through the MichiganAttorney General and that is a extra
safety mechanism for those who want toconceal their address from the public.
This program actually would've
helped me tremendously if it had beenavailable while I was going through
(14:25):
my court process and in the aftermathwith my serial rapist being free.
Once you go through a court case, allof your information becomes public.
So I still deal with harassment and thingslike that from my rapist and his family.
So this program, the ACP program,will actually help survivors not have
(14:48):
to experience harassment and havefull safety and protection at home.
Wow.
that's incredible.
So you founded this organization providingleads and referrals, basic needs like
food, clothing, wraparound services,helping people access jobs, you know,
(15:08):
through workforce, development, helpingsurvivors on their path to recovery.
And also providing case management,also, you know, helping survivors
get support from the ACP program.
I'm curious with this work that you'redoing in your organization, are you
supported by the state of Michigan,whether it is state or local funding.
(15:29):
How are you doing such tremendous work?
I'm actually unfunded.
I don't receive anysupport from the state.
I do accept in kind donations, whichhelp a lot, especially in crisis
situations where I might have to payfor a hotel room for the night, for
(15:49):
a IPV survivor, escaping a domesticsituation or a sexual assault survivor
who doesn't feel safe returning home.
A lot of people think that sexualassaults happen out in public
and a stranger did it, and it'sin the public space and things.
(16:10):
Most sexual assaults happen eitherin the person's home or in a very
close proximity to a person's home.
So, once you lose that sense ofsafety where you're supposed to
find your peace, it's hard fora lot of people to return there.
I do also provide crisis interventionservices, like I said, such as emergency
(16:33):
hotel rooms, so in kind donations.
But outside of that, I'mout of my own pocket.
So if you are listening, if you areout there in Michigan, please reach out
to support this amazing organization,called Hands On Healing Detroit.
Please reach out to Elle and Ellewill share her contact information
before we wrap up today's episode.
(16:54):
Elle, just incredible work that youare doing providing direct services,
but also, knowing you the past fewyears, you are one of the leading
survivor advocates in the state ofMichigan and across the country.
So I wanna talk a little bitabout your leadership in this
work and your advocacy as well.
You've taken your lived experience andturned it into leadership, in advocacy.
(17:16):
Can you talk about how you got involvedin advocacy and what motivated you
to speak out and support others?
I just did it.
I came outta court.
I was actually still crying andshook up from the verdict, but my
first thought was, what if thiswas to happen to my daughter?
(17:39):
At the time, my daughter was 15 years old.
She had only been 15 for roughlyabout a month, and I had her at 15.
So it was a whole full circletype moment and I just really
was like, what would I do?
Once I realized, of course I can'tprotect her from experiencing things,
(18:03):
so I'm like, I can't protect her.
But if something like this were toever happen to her, I can make sure
that what she's going to need exists.
Because when I came outtacourt, it didn't exist.
Trauma recovery centers.
Even the status of the Crime Victim'sCompensation Act here in Michigan,
(18:24):
there were a lot of things incomplete disarray causing bigger gaps
of care for survivors like myself.
So once I came with thatrealization, it was like the
least I could do is speak out.
And I started speaking out tobring awareness in the community
(18:46):
that, hey, we have predators here.
Hide your kids, protect them thebest you can, protect yourself.
But also, like I said, those who havealready been impacted, we need support
services to help us rebuild our lives, tohelp us if we need to relocate or whatever
(19:07):
we may need to heal from this situation.
And that's what started my advocacy, asa survivor rights advocate and activist,
also a community based activist advocate.
It even led to policy work.
So I'm also a policy advocate.
Any way that my story and my experiencecan be utilized to help make sure that
(19:36):
things like this don't continue to happen.
That's basically what I do especiallywhen it comes to harm reduction backlog
reform, prison reentry and reform, becauseall of those areas also impact survivors.
Every area needs to be done in thebest way possible, so it has a more
(20:03):
positive impact on our communitiesand on survivors themselves.
And that's all I do.
That's my focus.
I want to follow up onsomething that you just said.
You know many people, when theyhear that survivors and victims are
also advocating for criminal justicereform and rehabilitation, many
(20:23):
people are surprised about that.
Your work often centers on creating spacefor those who've been incarcerated to
find healing and community after release.
Why is that part of the survivor movementof helping those who have came in contact
with the justice system, why is that soimportant for you in the work that you do?
(20:47):
It's important for a number of reasons.
The main reason is, most perpetratorsof crime are also victims themselves.
Once a person is victimized, if they don'tget the proper services, counseling, other
support services that they need directlyafter that instance happens, pathways to
(21:13):
healing, be it self-medication or, youknow, walling it up or retaliation, all
of these lead to now that same personthat was a victim is now also a criminal
because they perpetrated a crime in theaftermath of their own victimization.
(21:35):
Once I realize personally, evenwith things like sexual assault,
domestic violence, all of thesethings, most of our perpetrators,
they were also sexually assaulted.
They were also more than likely asecondhand survivor of domestic violence.
(21:57):
Once you realize that the perpetratorsof crime are also victims themselves,
and then they were victimized alsoby the system, because they don't
get the help and support that theyneed once they're incarcerated.
If they get the help and support thatthey need when they come back into
(22:18):
our communities, it is better foreverybody because they're less likely
to continue down that path of cryingbecause now they have skills, they could
go to work and support their families,
which is also another way howvictims end up becoming criminals.
Even if it is, selling drugs or robberyafter you're victimized by a crime,
(22:45):
you can't work, you can't supportyour family, and you don't have these
support services or access to them.
That creates a desperation becausenow you're in poverty, which
poverty also is a form of trauma.
Which leads to crime and down that, youknow, crime and victimization cycle.
(23:07):
So in an effort to break the cycle, we allneed resources, whether you're on the one
end as a returning citizen, or if you'restill in the community as a survivor.
If we all have the resources that we need,
it'll be less likely for victims to end upbecoming perpetrators of crime, and it'll
(23:28):
be less likely for returning citizenswhen they return into our communities
for them to keep up the perpetuation ofthis cycle of crime and victimization.
Elle, you just gave us acrime policy workshop on the
failures of the justice system.
(23:49):
And you talked about, one of thefoundational problems with the way
crime policy has been built in thiscountry is that it, it has never been
designed to protect all people from harm.
Most people who come in contact with thejustice system often have been victims
themselves far before they even camein contact with the justice system.
(24:13):
And solutions to stop this cycleof violence, the solution to stop
over-incarceration is by simplyhelping people heal and recover,
which prevents crime from happening.
Being able to make surepeople got housing, jobs,
things that promote economic stabilityare like the simple solutions to
help us stop crime and violence inall communities The simple solutions
(24:38):
that's needed to prevent incarcerationand also to prevent crime as well.
I have two more questions for you.
Thinking about the survivors who you'vebeen able to connect with from the
rape kit backlog, in April, you hostedyour second event, as part of the
voices from the backlog event seriesto celebrate and honor those survivors
(25:02):
affected by the rape kit backlog.
Can you tell us a little bit about thatevent and why was it important for you to
have that event again for the second time?
Thank you for bringing that up.
The event was amazing.
I don't know if you saw any of thepress coverage, but it was phenomenal.
(25:22):
There were several survivors.
There were storytelling sessions.
We did a healing vigil.
I also unveiled 11,341 seashells, whichis the Detroit Rape Kit backlog here.
I started collecting thoseseashells after the first voices
(25:44):
from the backlog in April, 2019.
To finally show that publiclywas an amazing feeling in itself.
I also had keepsake gifts for survivors.
So the purpose of the event was just tohonor and celebrate survivors of sexual
assault and survivors of the DetroitRape Kit backlog, because we haven't been
(26:10):
acknowledged, we haven't been seen, heard.
There has been no accountability, truly.
Everyone has their own level of impact.
By the grace of God, I was ableto come through it with enough
strength to do everything thatI've done in this eight years.
(26:32):
But some people are addictedto heavy drugs and narcotics.
A lot of people have overdosed.
The suicide rate in our littleniche community is extremely high.
The incarceration rate and our samelittle niche community is actually
(26:53):
higher than the conviction ratefor that of our serial rapist.
They're about 3% of survivorsconnected to the rape kit
backlog that are incarcerated,where there's really only about
roughly 1.5% of our rapists andserial rapists incarcerated.
(27:14):
So the importance of this event forme is I know several survivors of
the backlog that are no longer here.
They're deceased.
I felt to do this event, to honor us,to empower us, to connect us with other
resources that now exist in the communitythat can help further our healing
(27:38):
journey and the effort to save lives.
So less of us feel that aloneto where it's like, I don't
want to be here no more.
I'm also a suicide survivor myself.
My last suicide attemptwas January of 2020.
So I know that struggle personally,and I felt this event, although most
(28:03):
people might say it was small orinsignificant, it helped save a life.
It help show a survivor that they're notalone and that somebody cares about them
enough to not only fight and advocate forthem, but to give them this little moment.
I had a comedian there becauselaughter is medicine and in my
(28:26):
opinion, it is the best medicine.
So why not have this event we can set,you know, this heavy thing down for three
hours and just love on each other, enjoyeach other, laugh and eat some good food.
Yes.
Amazing, amazing media coverageand also just, I just appreciate
partnering with you, in this work,not just on the legislative work, but
(28:49):
building community with survivors.
And also, it was an honor for CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice to
help sponsor and partner on that event.
I know it's gonna be an annual event.
CSCJ will continue to helpsupport that event, as well.
So just, Elle, thank you so much for allthe incredible work that you are doing.
My last question, for those that arelistening to this episode, for those
(29:11):
who know your story, know your work,those who don't know you, what message
do you most want other survivors,especially those who feel overlooked
or unheard to take from your story.
You are not alone, even at yourloneliest you're not alone.
(29:35):
We've all been there.
Stay grounded, stay prayerful andkeep that fight within yourself.
That fire is going to get youthrough the darkest moments that
come with healing and recovery.
(29:55):
A lot of people don't want to talkabout healing and recovery is dark,
is ugly, is scary, but it is worth it.
So never let anybody discount or notvalidate your healing and your story.
You matter, and your healing matters.
(30:16):
Thank you, thank you so much, Elle.
Wise words from someone that have,you know, taken her pain and, and made
it her purpose, not only for herself,her family, but for so many survivors
and communities across the stateof Michigan and across the country.
Elle, there may be people whoare listening to this episode
(30:38):
and want to support your work.
We hope there are foundations andorganizations that can help support your
work through funding and also donations.
How can people connect with youand support your work in Detroit?
They can connect with me through email.
My email isiamelle@handsonhealingdetroit.org,
(31:03):
or through Facebook.
My Facebook information is Travis IamElle.
Healing With Purpose is my healingcommunity that I constructed on Facebook.
they'll see a picture, and ifthose are ways that they can
(31:23):
connect with me also via telephone.
My organizational phone number is248-794-0067 and that's a Hands
On Healing Detroit's phone number.
So thank you so much Elle.
If you all want to support Elle's work,make sure you get in contact, with
(31:46):
her to support the amazing work she'sdoing on behalf of Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice, but also mostimportantly, for starting an amazing
organization, Hands On Healing Detroit.
Elle, thank you so much.
It's been a wonderful conversationto get to know you a little bit more,
but also, for you to inspire others.
(32:07):
In this, work.
thank you so much for joiningus on this episode of the
Crime Survivors Speak podcast.
If you haven't already, you canbecome a member of the Crime
Survivor For Safety and JusticeDetroit chapter that's led by Elle.
You can go to our website atwww.cssj.org, or you can join a chapter
(32:29):
near you or our national network.
Remember, you can tune into allpodcast episodes on YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, andother streaming platforms as well.
We are always healing through action.
And as we end each of these episodes, ElleI want to test you with this saying, when
(32:50):
survivors speak.
Change happens.
There you go.
When survivor speak, changehappens and change is happening.
Thank you all so much forjoining today's episode.
We'll talk to you soon.
I'm looking forward to more ofthese conversations with amazing
survivor leaders across the country.
Thank you.
Talk to you later.
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