November 17, 2021 • 41 mins
For victims of crime and violence, there are many pathways to recovery. Tune-in to hear a conversation between three crime survivors about how organizing for change offered them opportunities for healing. Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice leaders, David Guizar and Megan Hobson join Aswad to discuss organizing and the model of "healing through action."
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episodeof Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 70,000 victims of crimes
across the country.
I'm very excited about the conversation
we're about to have today.
So far we have talked about
the history of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
(00:22):
and we talked about the flagship model
that we advocate for across the country
called Trauma Recovery Centers.
Today, we're going to talk about
why we organize crime survivors.
We're going to talk about what it means
when survivors turn healing into action.
You know, this is such animportant conversation for me
because organizing was the foundation
(00:42):
for my journey to recover
from being a victim of gun violence.
When I came to deterrencewith the fact that
I wasn't going to be able toplay basketball professionally,
I decided that I wanted to give back.
I decided that I wantedto speak for my friends
who are no longer here.
I decided that I wanted to speak for all
victims of violent crime.
(01:02):
So I went on to graduate fromthe School of Social Work
at the University of Connecticut
and ended up studyingcommunity organizing.
That connection for me was so clear.
You know, going fromdealing with something that
wasn't my choice, to dedicatemy life to organizing people,
to get the chance to have more choices.
More choices to experience safety
(01:23):
and stop the cycle of violence.
More choices to heal and morechoices to build a community
of survivors from across the country.
(01:51):
We're going to hearfrom two amazing leaders
of Crime Survivors Safety and Justice
two of the people that havemade an immense difference
in their states to advocatefor new safety solutions.
We will use the phrase survivorleaders throughout 'cause
that's what these two individuals are.
And my two guests really embody
that in a way that's absolutely inspiring.
(02:14):
For many survivors, organizing
is part of the healing journey.
So let's hear from two individuals
who are leading that work.
We have David Guizarwho is a crime survivor
and founding member of Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice,
who's from Los Angeles, California,
and we also have Megan Hobson,
a crime survivor and chapter coordinator
of the Crime Survivor Safetyand Justice Miami chapter.
(02:36):
So let's jump into it.
So Megan, tell us about your story,
your journey to becominga survivor organizer.
- Thank you Aswad,
and thank you for havingme on this podcast
for this episode.
So, I became a survivor at the age of 16.
I was shot in a drive-by shooting
here in Miami Gardens, Florida.
(02:56):
And I was a high schooler at the time,
I was in the 11th grade with dreams, hopes
of becoming a pediatric oncologist.
I had big dreams of becoming this doctor,
even though I knewabout all the years that
lied ahead of me withthe work and, you know,
(03:16):
the shooting it happened right before
the end of the school year.
So school would get out andin June you would graduate.
And in May it's like the end of the year.
So my shooting tookplace in April of 2012.
And all of the things that Ithought I was gonna be doing
it just changed in that moment.
(03:38):
And from that moment on I was surviving
and without actuallycalling myself a survivor,
I was surviving.
I didn't feel like a victim, always.
I was, I knew that therewas something I needed to do
to differentiate thedifference between a victim
of gun violence, anysurvivor of gun violence.
And so originally my journey
(03:59):
was just to let people understand that,
see me as that and understandthat that means that I
have a different way oflooking at my life now.
I ended up becoming a part of a project.
It was called "SHOT 101Survivors of Gun Violence".
It was a photo book.
It was the first photobook that I'd ever seen
that highlighted andused the word survivor.
(04:21):
And that was about threeyears after my shooting.
So I say that to say it was a long time,
even though I was sharingmy story for me to really
go on the forefront of my story and say,
I'm a survivor in a bold way.
And I ended up becomingthe cover of that book
and just going and talking locally
in my community aboutwhat trauma recovery was
(04:42):
and the importance of it.
And that's how I ended up with
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
I met Savash there at that book release,
and I was just so moved by the work
the way in which he talks about
how we were centered inthe survivor's experience.
Like everything about that to me is
survivor organizing like that's organizing
(05:04):
and elevating and upliftingthe survivors experience
and using that to push
whatever the change isthat we are envisioning.
And so that's what I was doing.
I just saw myself doing it now with CSSJ
and so I have been healing through action,
I would say, with the organizationfor the past four years.
It's different because ittakes me beyond advocacy.
(05:25):
It's no longer just aboutgoing to the Capitol.
It's about working on the legislation
and then taking it to the Capitol
and then seeing how it really helps.
And then coming back and talkingto my community about it.
And then outside of that,
holding space for my survivorcommunity to come and share
and heal together.
So for me, that's beenmy journey of healing
(05:45):
and now I'm able to, I'm in a position
I feel like to help othersin my community heal.
And so it's been all right,
but it's been a interesting one.
So thank you for the question.
- No, thank you, Megan.
And Megan, I wanna takeyou back a little bit.
I remember meeting youalmost four or five years ago
for the first time.
You know, I came to Miami,
(06:05):
we met at a localrestaurant and for me it was
a life-changing experience because
I was able to connectwith someone, you know,
who's a survivor of gunviolence like myself.
And I remember, you know, just meeting you
and when we talked about ourexperiences and, you know,
the physical trauma that we went through,
the psychological traumathat we went through,
(06:26):
but we're able to kind of bond
over that experience of being a survivor.
And we've been connected.
We'd love to hear fromyou, how was it, you know,
meeting another survivor of gun violence
and being able to, you know,
someone that you can relate to that often
we don't get to, you know,
talk to other survivors
who've survived gun violence.
And what was the impactand kind of, you know,
what were you thinkingabout when the two of us,
(06:49):
you know, met as survivor leaders?
- Yeah, so, oh, man, so likea trip through memory lane.
So I definitely rememberthat conversation.
We sat in that restaurant and I feel like
it was so profound to havea conversation with you
because it was from a male's perspective.
So one, yes, you weretalking to me about things
(07:09):
that I deeply resonatedwith, but then two,
I was hearing it froma male's perspective.
I was hearing it from someone
who is actively doing this work
'cause it's not just asurvivor who was like,
I just survived my experience,but I don't talk about it.
It was someone who was really
actively working acrossthe country to bring spaces
like what I was trying to bring to Miami
(07:30):
and making them a reality.
So I felt reallyempowered in that meeting.
And I just remember I was22 years old at the time
and I was just like, you asked me,
so what do you do every day?
What is your life like?
And I said, this is it.
I talk to survivors every day
and I hold spaces for them inwhatever way they are needing.
(07:51):
And that's my life.
I said, I live by what itis, which is my experience.
And so yeah, our relationshipfrom there, it was always,
I think, affirming to see you in a space
and to know that ourexperience is similar.
And even when we wouldgo and be in Tallahassee,
to even being in meetings with you
and know there's two peoplewho have survived gun violence
(08:13):
at this table and we're changing things.
It felt really good,
and it still feels verygood, you know? So--
- Yeah, healing throughaction, that's what it's about.
- Yeah.- So David, David Guizar
you are from Los Angeles.
David we would love to hear from you.
You know, please tell us alittle bit about your story
and about your healing journey
(08:34):
and what it means from your perspective
to be a survivor organizer
and also a founding member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
- Cool, cool, yes, hi everyone.
My name is David Guizar,
I am, as you mentionedAswad, I'm from Los Angeles
and you know, in 1983, my oldestbrother Oscar was murdered.
(08:56):
And I remember, you know,
just how tragic that wholeexperience was as a young kid,
10 years old, you know, justdoing my thing that morning.
You know, helping out our family,
decorate a car with littlepaper flowers for a quinceanera.
(09:19):
And you know, my sister-in-law,
she just popped out of nowhere.
I haven't really seen her in a while.
And she was like, "Hey, your mom".
And I was like, you know,
kind of let her know howto get into the apartment.
And then she was able to get there.
And I was in the parking lot,
I could hear my mom right behind me.
(09:39):
And so to be able tohear my mom, you know,
like scream out like thatloud, like, "No, no, no".
And just cry, and I was like, damn!
Like what happened?
Right, so I went inside and, and yeah,
so at a very young age, man, I, you know,
lived through that experienceof seeing, you know,
(10:02):
that impact of that trauma,you know, with my mom.
And I think I just went like,
unlike auto mode, you know, to not,
you know, feel likewhat I was experiencing
in terms of sadness and,you know, the need to cry
(10:24):
and all of that.
I just felt like, you know,when I reflect on that
I was in shock, right?
I was in shock.
I was in disbelief thatthat was happening.
So I didn't think I would growup to be like 18 years old.
You know, my brother wasmurdered when he was 17.
So for me to get to 18, 19,20, it was just like, wow!
(10:46):
Like I'm making it through this, right?
So that really haunted me, youknow, that whole experience.
And just the experienceof seeing so many fallen
people in my community.
Shortly after losing my brother,
I think within months, another young man
was murdered at a placethat we had just moved into.
(11:11):
And I remember, you know,
just trying to help and holding this guy
and he ended up not makingit through that shooting,
you know, so very direct, you know,
right there in the midst of it, you know?
But I began to kinda liketalk about it, you know?
And even though I wasn't well,
(11:31):
I think it really opened up aspiritual element in my life
that has taken some timeto mature, you know?
- David, can you talk alittle bit about, you know,
your, you know, you becoming, you know,
a member of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
and from your perspective, like, you know,
(11:52):
you've organized survivors, you know,
for years in California,
now you're doing it across the country.
Can you talk a little bit, you know,
what does survivor organize mean to you?
- As a founding member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice
in 2012, I was invited by agood friend of mine, Aqeela,
(12:14):
you know, Sherrills to be a part of
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
you know, a couple of months later
my brother Gilbert, youknow, was murdered as well.
And that was really, really devastating.
So I walked into to that situation,
(12:39):
you know, fresh of losing another brother,
fresh of reliving a lot oftheir trauma in my family
from a different angle, right?
Being older, I quickly learnedthat accessing services
and the support that my family needed,
(13:04):
not just in my household,
but my brother given thathe was older and he had,
he has children that they needed services.
And I was finding thesethings out in the moment.
So my, that experience and my experience
of being at the table with other survivors
(13:25):
in the formation of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice
grew into, you know,
sharing my story from adifferent perspective,
a perspective of what happened,
what has been missing, and how can we
as a collective advocate
(13:45):
for the support that isneeded in our community.
I have heard you Aswadshare about, you know,
your incident, right?
Of that the young man who shot you
had been shot four years before.
And what could have it looked like
if he would have been helped, right?
In my assessment of the youngman that shot my brother,
(14:09):
Gilbert, in 2012,
he ended up shooting my brother over like
the stupidest thing, you know?
Real minor, something that wecould easily deflate our ego
and walk away from.
And he unfortunately madethe mistake of doing that.
He's now in prison.
My brother is no longer with us physically
(14:31):
and his kids miss him a lot,
and there's a lot ofuntreated trauma, you know?
So that's why advocacy is important.
That's why sharing my story is important.
That's why I know that I'mnot the only one, right?
When I'm listening to Meganand her sharing of her story
in Miami, and I'm like in LA
and you are out therein Michigan, Connecticut
(14:55):
in those different areas.
It's like, man, we sharethe same, you know,
similar elements of our experiences
are tied together, you know?
- Yeah, thanks, David.
So let's talk about that, right?
You know, talk about, youknow, each of us, you know,
have, you know, been through experiences,
but all of us have kind of, you know,
(15:16):
taken those experiencesto being able to help
you know, organize otherpeople and help train leaders
to change policies.
So you all have, you know,
trained other survivorsacross the country,
in your communities asorganizers, and also as advocates.
And you also have worked topass a legislative reforms
in your states.
So Megan, you know, you are currently the
(15:38):
Crime Survivor for Safety and Justice
Chapter Coordinator for the Miami chapter.
So tell us what is like, you know,
what are some of the thingsthat you do within your chapter
and what have you seen,
some of the impact you've seen emerge
from your work with survivors in Miami?
- Miami is such a unique city in itself.
There's a lot of thingsthat happen in Miami.
(15:59):
I think violence here is something that
many of us have normalized,honestly and unfortunately,
because we are somewhatdesensitized to it.
And I think it's because manyof my members have found it
as a way to cope.
And so knowing that whenI became the coordinator,
I wanted to be very intentional
that my members were able to access
(16:23):
whatever tools we canaccess on a community level
that would be helpful for wherethey're at in their journey
and helpful for what theyneed right now to heal.
And some examples of thatis myself and my colleague,
Trenesse oftentimes wouldget together in a room
and really sit and think like,
(16:44):
who are some people in the community
that we could bring together right now
based on their skillset.
We would think of psychologists,
we would think of people who are using
trauma informed approachesof having conversation,
like conscious conversationswith our survivors.
I developed a curriculumwith our members where
annually we'd have an event,
and the theme was healing comes in waves.
(17:06):
And we would go out by the beach.
'Cause we are surroundedby water here in Miami.
We are fortunate to have that.
And so we went out to thebeach and we would just sit
and have meditations,
and we will write love lettersto ourselves as survivors
and love letters to our lovedones as on Valentine's day.
Or we would have momentswhen we go out there
(17:27):
and we light a candle duringNational Crime Victims'
Rights Week for one of our loved ones.
And when we're on the beach
and we're having thoselike moments together
as a joint community,
what we really get to seeand experience is that
looking back at us is areflection of our journey,
that's what the waves represent.
(17:49):
That sometimes, youknow, the tides are high,
sometimes it's low.
Sometimes you are on the top of the wave
and you're riding it.
And you're just, that'swhat it feels like.
You're floating above your healing journey
or you're somewhere in between struggling.
And so our members come together
and they utilize that space to really
look at their healing journeyfrom a different lens.
(18:11):
And outside of that,
we have a lot of timeswhere we just come together
and think of ways we can heal.
We've had healing through expression.
So we've had dance or we've had painting.
We've had spoken word.
Movement that would belike a mindful movements
or just like shaking andmoving around jittering.
Why we do them in our chapters is because
(18:33):
our members don't haveaccess to therapy sometimes.
And they don't, maybe theydon't want to be in the space.
They're not in the space right now
where they wanna talk to a therapist.
Talk therapy is not for everyone.
But what I have found
through the work we do in our chapter is
it means something whensomeone looks to you
and unlike people whowalk past you day to day
and you can say, oh,
(18:53):
they don't know anythingabout what it's like to be me.
Your inner space wheresomeone looking at you
might actually know whatit's like to be where you are
in your journey.
And so rather than havingthe right words to say
because sometimes thereare none, you're just there
and you are not alone.
And you know that in that moment.
'Cause you're in a roomsurrounded by people
who are just like you survivingand choosing to do it daily.
(19:15):
And so with each, you know,
opportunity to get with more members,
you learn more things.
Or sometimes in smaller spaces,
you learn more about an experience.
When it comes to how we do legislation,
a lot of that comes out ofpolicy retreats that we have
where we think about our experience.
So sometimes it's gettingour community leaders
(19:36):
in a space and saying,like David said earlier,
what is it that youneeded in the aftermath
that you didn't have access to?
And if you could do something different,
what would that be?
And that might changebased on how you, you know,
I've been probably doingthis for five years
and maybe it doesn't feel good.
I don't feel like theseare a wins anymore.
How do you lift that up
and still encourage themto keep going in the work?
(19:59):
You do so by saying, we'reall here in this time.
And just because we thinkthat we're not doing anything,
we have to remind eachother of all that we've done
for each other along the way.
So the support has been oneof the most rewarding things
I think about our chapter here.
- Yeah, and I think like, you know,
that peer to peer support that we provide,
(20:20):
that community that we provide
the opportunities todo different activities
whether it's meetings and healing vigils
and going to Survivor Speak, you know,
like the benefits of being part of this,
this community, you know,
you can't put a price on that.
You know, you can't puta price on, you know,
connecting with other survivors
who you're going to havea lifetime connection
(20:42):
and a relationship with,
but also you're, you know,through this process, you know,
we're gonna help train you,you know, to be a leader,
to change policies,
to bring those resources in communities.
David would love to hearfrom you about, you know,
about the trainings thatyou are facilitating.
Like what do you talkabout in those trainings?
What are some of the content?
And also what, how has the trainings
(21:05):
that you've been doing how hasit impacted the participants?
- You know, part of therole that I've I've served
in is facilitating thebuilding a network of leaders
to win new safety priorities, right?
So with the buildingand network of leaders
element of our training, you know,
(21:25):
it gives us the opportunityto reflect on that timeline
of where we started doingour advocacy, right?
In California, we talked about SB 580,
that gave us the opportunityto work on California
coming out of a deficit,financial deficit,
(21:47):
had a surplus in victim'scompensation, right?
So we talked about how weworked with a champion,
Senator Leno, to bring this bill alive
that had already beenvetoed to bring it back,
and we ourselves went toadvocate and say like,
(22:07):
hey, I need trauma recovery.
I need a trauma recoverycenter in my community.
It provided the funds
for the first three traumarecovery centers, right?
And then we rolled out Prop 47
that gave us an opportunity to reduce
incarceration of low level crimes,
(22:30):
petty theft, receiving stolen property,
possession of drugs for use
and things of that nature, right?
To name a few.
And that set off areduction in incarceration
in our prison system
and it also led tosavings of costs, right?
(22:52):
And then that money was redistributed
through a very sophisticatedsystem within the state
for that money to makeits way back available.
So I think that the trainingis important because
people get to step backand see themselves.
And I think that the activitywithin our curriculum
(23:14):
that really hits home,
is when we do thelandscape analysis, right?
In the landscape analysis,
the survivor being in themiddle in a rounded, you know,
counter like clockwise,
we're able to see what thesystems that are in place
that could respond to usat a time of need, right?
The school district, Iwas 10 years old, Megan,
(23:36):
when my brother was murdered.
I went to school and Iwas walking like a zombie,
like, where do I go to?
Right, so we talk about howdid that school district
respond to my need?
How did you know, children's services,
family services, respond orprobation or parole, right?
So I think it gives usa lens for people to
(24:00):
put themselves in the middleand evaluate and assess
how that system has worked for them,
or has not and how do we activate members
to even create ideas for different laws?
- Cool, so David,
you were just talkingabout policies, right?
And the impact of how survivors, you know,
(24:22):
work to advocate for moretrauma recovery centers,
advocate for things like Proposition 47.
Megan, you worked on a historic bill
in the state of Florida in 2019,
the most expansive criminaljustice bill in Florida
in the past 20 years withthe passing of HB 7125.
(24:43):
So what's the story of that bill HB 7125?
And what was it like to see the bill
created from a room of survivors
is now in statue to better help survivors
in state of Florida?
- Oh, man, so that isdefinitely like, that was,
I think one of the highlightsof that year for me, 2019.
It was just a passing of HB 7125.
(25:05):
And a little over 20of our survivor leaders
come together in Miami for three days.
And we just really, like I said earlier
we sat down and talked aboutsome of the things that
we really wish we had andlike when we were healing
or that we knew about in theaftermath of our experiences
and when we came togetherand really showed that out
(25:27):
as survivor leaders,
that we came and brought ourexperience to that space.
But we also came and brought
all the experience of the stories
that we hold space for in our community.
So like for me,
I was in that space thinking of myself
as a survivor of gun violence,
of my mom and my sisterand what it is that they,
that I wish people knew about them
and what they would need as asurvivor of this same crime.
(25:49):
We took it a step further.
I thought about the survivors
that I'm often on thephone with late at night,
who just, it's just needing totalk to someone or, you know,
they're on the phonesaying I'm up researching
all this stuff.
'Cause a lot of times survivors feel like
they have to be their own advocate.
They feel like they haveto advocate for their self
and their loved one toget any sense of healing.
(26:11):
And so, we brought thoseexperiences together
and over three days wedid several activities
that we was like, you know,
if we could have our ownlaw, what would that be?
You know, if we could thinkabout something in our after,
in our experience and applythat to make sure that
the experience withsomeone else is easier,
what would that thing be?
(26:31):
And we went, we were in about five groups
and over those three days,
we really were able to comeup with some concrete things
that ended up becomingwhat was on our agenda
for HB 7125 and the passing of that,
it being historic in itself,
the first of its kind in 20years, that's a big deal,
(26:53):
but it felt good to knowthat survivors did this.
We did this.
We came together and no onecould have done this better
than we did, because this is about us.
Oftentimes survivors aremissing from these conversation
when it relates to what do survivors need?
Someone saying what we need
and they haven't experienced it.
(27:13):
And so knowing that this wassomething that was passed,
but it was coming from just our pain
that just showed us how wecould transform anything
in our experience intosomething different.
And with us bringing it together,
we were able to highlightsome of those issues
and we removed some of those barriers
that were restricting our survivors
from getting access to resources.
(27:36):
One of those barriers was the timeline,
reporting time prior tothe passing of HB 7125,
you had about 72 hoursto report your crime
and you would get resourcesup to I believe a year.
And when we went to Tallahasseewith our survivor leaders,
we went from taking 25leaders to like 45 leaders
(27:58):
from Miami alone to goand talk about this.
And all of them said, we need more time.
And so, you know, wedid, we got more time.
So we moved it from 72 hours.
I believe you have a year now to report
and you have all men can receive services
up to three years after victimization.
And that in itself,
(28:20):
if you don't understandhow big of a deal it is
just think about in the aftermathof any of our experiences.
David, like you said,you went back to school.
For me, I didn't go back to school,
but when I returned the next year,
I was going to therapy andgoing to school at the same,
like, you know, course of time.
And I wasn't thinking aboutfilling out a form to go
and get some victim's compensation.
(28:43):
I don't even think people realize that
I just became a victim yesterday.
I'm not even comfortable, you know,
filling out a form sayingthat this is who I am.
This is not me.
And so now we have time forsurvivors to really take us,
take a moment to process whathas just happened to them
and then actually move into a space
where they can utilizesome of those resources
(29:05):
that are now accessible to them.
And we also removed barriersthat will allow people
who are living with previous convictions,
who are returning citizensand should be able to work
and reduce the cycles of crimeand not having to go back
and do anything just toput food on the table.
We made it where they'reable to get certifications
(29:27):
to do things like simplycutting hair, being a barber,
just giving people anopportunity to reclaim
normalcy in their lifeand purpose in their life
or whatever that looks like.
That's what that feltlike when it came to that
being a win for us.
The journey to doingthat I think, you know,
so many of our leadersin California as well,
(29:48):
because we had to really pull on and say,
hey, things that areworking in other places,
we should see how it couldwork for us, you know?
And so having another modelor a sister model to go off of
was really important inthat process as well.
And knowing our legislators
and having real conversations with them.
So it was all necessary and it was good.
(30:09):
It was a good run.
- And it is just sopowerful, just like how,
you know, survivors, you know,
in that room in Florida came together
and looked at the barriers,but offered solutions to those.
And so being able to passthat bill in Florida,
being able to pass the billswe've worked on in California
and across the country, notonly survivors are working to,
(30:31):
you know, remove barriersto victim compensation,
not only survivors areadvocating for more services
for survivors, moretrauma recovery centers,
protections for survivors, butsurvivors are also, you know,
really elevating their voice
as it relates to criminal justice reform.
So Megan, you just talked about how
that bill in Florida HB 7125,
(30:52):
not only removed barriers
and increased accessservices for survivors,
but also those comingout of the justice system
being able to help thoseindividuals access jobs, right?
And so that is important.
Like that is safety.
That's public safety in that.
And that's ensuring that survivors
are at the center of conversation.
So David we would love to hear for you,
(31:13):
what is your vision forsafety in this country?
- First of all,
people need to be treatedlike humans, right?
I think at the core ofwhat we're speaking about
when something was missing in our lives.
I remember when I wantedto get some information
(31:36):
around victim services at thedistrict attorney's office
after my brother was murdered,
I couldn't get that.
You know, when I wanted toget some help for my mom,
after my brother Gilbert was murdered,
I couldn't get that, right?
And it really inspired meto continue to do the work.
(31:57):
And unfortunately, we're seeingthis part of my vision as
the aftermath, we know thatthings like that happen.
In a way of prevention,
there's definitely needsto be more investment
in our communities,urban communities, right?
There needs to be aninvestment of parks and regs.
(32:20):
There needs to be an academicinvestment for our schools
in our afterschool programs,enrichment programs.
There needs to be aninvestment in law enforcement
needing to have coping skills
and the skill set to betterdeal with the community that is
(32:45):
there to protect and to serve.
The approach needs to be holistic, right?
Mental health, emotional health.
There's needs to be a verycomprehensive approach
to what public safety looks like.
It needs to be safety for all.
(33:06):
It needs to be equitable.
There's a real need fornutrition in our communities.
Man, you know, a healthy bodyis a healthy mind, you know?
So I mean, there's just so you know,
safety is multilayered man.
And I think that thebeginning of this conversation
(33:28):
is opening up that imagination
for people to really becreative and insightful
of how beautiful life can be.
Men we used to play baseball.
Baseball is my first passion, you know?
And what a broomstick and rocks man.
That was how we got downand we had innocent fun.
(33:48):
You know what I mean?
We need to provide those typeof environments for children,
for families to be ableto laugh and enjoy, right?
We know that victimizationis way more than
what we've share, which is gun violence.
We know that there's sexual assault,
we know that there's domestic violence,
(34:08):
we know that there are somany different elements
of harm that exists,
and that our networkhas grown into, right?
That we speak to that,
that we're bigger than the gun violence
that has happened in our experiences
and that we're respectful of that process,
and we learn that inclusivenessis important for this work.
(34:32):
And so, that is the type of adapting that
public safety needs tobe open to, you know?
- Yeah, but thank you, David.
One thing that I,
that you didn't share about what safety,
your vision for safetywas incarceration, right?
So for those of you who are, you know,
listening to today's podcast, you know,
(34:52):
when you talk tosurvivors, there's services
there's more programs for youth
there's mental health treatment,
drug treatment there's all of those things
that we have taken awayfrom communities for decades
to invest in criminal justice systems.
We're not safer.
You know what safety is,
is more investments in a lot of things,
(35:13):
and it's not just on incarceration.
So David thank you somuch for sharing of how,
what safety looks like toyou and what safety look like
to all of us, which isbeing able to, you know,
to be outside in our communityand playing little things
like baseball, right?
Things that bring us joy.
And that's how we have to getour communities back to where
our children and youthand communities are safe
(35:36):
'cause that's what safety looks like.
Safety is not just locking people up
and throwing away the key.
Megan, before we closetonight, I wanna hear from you,
Megan and David with closing remarks,
but Megan, what does healingthrough action mean to you?
- When we talk about the cycle of crime,
we have to also think aboutall the people who are
(35:57):
affected by this cycle.
And sometimes though I mightnever know what it's like to be
the one who pulls the trigger,
I know what it is like to beon the other side of the gun.
And so, I think healingthrough action is about
having that conversation,
reaching across to someonewho might be on the other side
and saying, I don't knowwhat it's like to be you,
but I want to understandwhat made you do that?
(36:17):
What is it that you needed?
You know, taking these same questions
that we asked our survivor members,
what I see and I have donethis gone into, you know,
Everglades Correctionalhere in Miami-Dade,
and just talk to some ofthese brothers in blue about
what is it that made youdo what you did, right?
And if you could apologizeto someone, you know,
if you hurt somebody and you don't know,
(36:37):
but you could apologizeto them, would you?
And you know, me notknowing who I was, you know,
not knowing who shotme, who that person is,
I allowed that.
I allowed that conversation
and that opportunity of forgiveness
to be brought into the forefrontof both of our experiences.
Healing isn't linear altogether.
For everyone it looks different.
(36:57):
There's no carbon copy.
There's no right or wrong.
It's just what works for you.
And as long as you're doing something
and not just sitting there and saying,
I'm a victim and you know,that's all I'll ever be.
I feel like when it comes to that,
there are no victims, that's a volunteer.
And I choose to not be avolunteer to my victim experience.
So I definitely think that
(37:19):
that's what healingthrough action is for me
and continuously havingconversations in our community
that will let people know that
we survivors wanna be heard and seen
and know that we're safe
and know that the peoplewho are supposed to at least
care about how we heal in our community,
that they're doing those things.
So for my members, that'swhat it looks like.
And so long as that's whatthey want and they need,
I'm working with that, you know?
(37:40):
So that's what it lookslike to me (chuckles).
- Thank you so much, Meg.
And you David,
what does healing throughaction mean to you?
- It's the pause, you know?
Obviously we spoke in context of
what it means to be a survivor leader,
(38:01):
as we were getting ready
to jump into this beautifulconversation this afternoon,
you asked us to pause, right?
To take that deep breath,
and if we're gonna be able to continue
and be efficient in what we're doing,
(38:22):
you know, we need to pause, right?
And take care of ourselves.
- Thank you so much,David, thank you, Megan.
In the United States alone,
there are many survivors just like us.
In fact, there is anabout 66 million people
or victims of a crimein the last 10 years.
And half of them werevictims of violent crime.
(38:44):
So that's about 31 million Americans
have been a victim of a crimeand tens of millions like us,
you know, aren't receivingthe help in the healing
and the support that theyneed, and this must change.
And you all as survivor leadersare working to change that.
So just wanna thank youall so much for joining
(39:06):
today's episode, you know,
the opportunity to hear fromyou all as survivor leaders
in organizing, but most importantly
how survivors are coming together to heal
and also change policies as well.
Once again, thank youso much David and Megan
for being with us here today.
For those of you who are listening,
you want to get involved with
(39:27):
Crimes Survivors for Safety and Justice,
join a local chapter.
You can go to our website at www.cssj.org
to join Megan's chapter in Miami
or to join David's chapter in Los Angeles.
We have over 40 chaptersacross the country and growing.
So we're always looking for volunteers,
always looking forleaders across the country
(39:49):
to help us be part of chapters,
but also to help us launchmore chapters as well.
You can also text theword survivor right now.
So text the word survivor to 97779
to join our Crimes SurvivorsSafety and Justice.
As always it has been apleasure to talk with you,
David and Megan.
(40:09):
Thank you all so much
for being the guests on today's episode
of Crime Survivors Speak.
If you want to tune into the podcast,
you can go to cssj.org/podcasts
where you can watch this video.
You also can listen tothe podcasts on Spotify,
Amazon, PlayList, iTunes,
(40:30):
and all streaming platform to listen more
to crimes survivorsfrom across the country
that are healing through action.
When survivors speak, change happens.
Thank you all.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national networkof 70,000 victims of crimes
across the country.
I'm very excited about the conversation
we're about to have today.
So far we have talked about
the history of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
(00:22):
and we talked about the flagship model
that we advocate for across the country
called Trauma Recovery Centers.
Today, we're going to talk about
why we organize crime survivors.
We're going to talk about what it means
when survivors turn healing into action.
You know, this is such animportant conversation for me
because organizing was the foundation
(00:42):
for my journey to recover
from being a victim of gun violence.
When I came to deterrencewith the fact that
I wasn't going to be able toplay basketball professionally,
I decided that I wanted to give back.
I decided that I wantedto speak for my friends
who are no longer here.
I decided that I wanted to speak for all
victims of violent crime.
(01:02):
So I went on to graduate fromthe School of Social Work
at the University of Connecticut
and ended up studyingcommunity organizing.
That connection for me was so clear.
You know, going fromdealing with something that
wasn't my choice, to dedicatemy life to organizing people,
to get the chance to have more choices.
More choices to experience safety
(01:23):
and stop the cycle of violence.
More choices to heal and morechoices to build a community
of survivors from across the country.
(01:51):
We're going to hearfrom two amazing leaders
of Crime Survivors Safety and Justice
two of the people that havemade an immense difference
in their states to advocatefor new safety solutions.
We will use the phrase survivorleaders throughout 'cause
that's what these two individuals are.
And my two guests really embody
that in a way that's absolutely inspiring.
(02:14):
For many survivors, organizing
is part of the healing journey.
So let's hear from two individuals
who are leading that work.
We have David Guizarwho is a crime survivor
and founding member of Crime Survivors
for Safety and Justice,
who's from Los Angeles, California,
and we also have Megan Hobson,
a crime survivor and chapter coordinator
of the Crime Survivor Safetyand Justice Miami chapter.
(02:36):
So let's jump into it.
So Megan, tell us about your story,
your journey to becominga survivor organizer.
- Thank you Aswad,
and thank you for havingme on this podcast
for this episode.
So, I became a survivor at the age of 16.
I was shot in a drive-by shooting
here in Miami Gardens, Florida.
(02:56):
And I was a high schooler at the time,
I was in the 11th grade with dreams, hopes
of becoming a pediatric oncologist.
I had big dreams of becoming this doctor,
even though I knewabout all the years that
lied ahead of me withthe work and, you know,
(03:16):
the shooting it happened right before
the end of the school year.
So school would get out andin June you would graduate.
And in May it's like the end of the year.
So my shooting tookplace in April of 2012.
And all of the things that Ithought I was gonna be doing
it just changed in that moment.
(03:38):
And from that moment on I was surviving
and without actuallycalling myself a survivor,
I was surviving.
I didn't feel like a victim, always.
I was, I knew that therewas something I needed to do
to differentiate thedifference between a victim
of gun violence, anysurvivor of gun violence.
And so originally my journey
(03:59):
was just to let people understand that,
see me as that and understandthat that means that I
have a different way oflooking at my life now.
I ended up becoming a part of a project.
It was called "SHOT 101Survivors of Gun Violence".
It was a photo book.
It was the first photobook that I'd ever seen
that highlighted andused the word survivor.
(04:21):
And that was about threeyears after my shooting.
So I say that to say it was a long time,
even though I was sharingmy story for me to really
go on the forefront of my story and say,
I'm a survivor in a bold way.
And I ended up becomingthe cover of that book
and just going and talking locally
in my community aboutwhat trauma recovery was
(04:42):
and the importance of it.
And that's how I ended up with
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
I met Savash there at that book release,
and I was just so moved by the work
the way in which he talks about
how we were centered inthe survivor's experience.
Like everything about that to me is
survivor organizing like that's organizing
(05:04):
and elevating and upliftingthe survivors experience
and using that to push
whatever the change isthat we are envisioning.
And so that's what I was doing.
I just saw myself doing it now with CSSJ
and so I have been healing through action,
I would say, with the organizationfor the past four years.
It's different because ittakes me beyond advocacy.
(05:25):
It's no longer just aboutgoing to the Capitol.
It's about working on the legislation
and then taking it to the Capitol
and then seeing how it really helps.
And then coming back and talkingto my community about it.
And then outside of that,
holding space for my survivorcommunity to come and share
and heal together.
So for me, that's beenmy journey of healing
(05:45):
and now I'm able to, I'm in a position
I feel like to help othersin my community heal.
And so it's been all right,
but it's been a interesting one.
So thank you for the question.
- No, thank you, Megan.
And Megan, I wanna takeyou back a little bit.
I remember meeting youalmost four or five years ago
for the first time.
You know, I came to Miami,
(06:05):
we met at a localrestaurant and for me it was
a life-changing experience because
I was able to connectwith someone, you know,
who's a survivor of gunviolence like myself.
And I remember, you know, just meeting you
and when we talked about ourexperiences and, you know,
the physical trauma that we went through,
the psychological traumathat we went through,
(06:26):
but we're able to kind of bond
over that experience of being a survivor.
And we've been connected.
We'd love to hear fromyou, how was it, you know,
meeting another survivor of gun violence
and being able to, you know,
someone that you can relate to that often
we don't get to, you know,
talk to other survivors
who've survived gun violence.
And what was the impactand kind of, you know,
what were you thinkingabout when the two of us,
(06:49):
you know, met as survivor leaders?
- Yeah, so, oh, man, so likea trip through memory lane.
So I definitely rememberthat conversation.
We sat in that restaurant and I feel like
it was so profound to havea conversation with you
because it was from a male's perspective.
So one, yes, you weretalking to me about things
(07:09):
that I deeply resonatedwith, but then two,
I was hearing it froma male's perspective.
I was hearing it from someone
who is actively doing this work
'cause it's not just asurvivor who was like,
I just survived my experience,but I don't talk about it.
It was someone who was really
actively working acrossthe country to bring spaces
like what I was trying to bring to Miami
(07:30):
and making them a reality.
So I felt reallyempowered in that meeting.
And I just remember I was22 years old at the time
and I was just like, you asked me,
so what do you do every day?
What is your life like?
And I said, this is it.
I talk to survivors every day
and I hold spaces for them inwhatever way they are needing.
(07:51):
And that's my life.
I said, I live by what itis, which is my experience.
And so yeah, our relationshipfrom there, it was always,
I think, affirming to see you in a space
and to know that ourexperience is similar.
And even when we wouldgo and be in Tallahassee,
to even being in meetings with you
and know there's two peoplewho have survived gun violence
(08:13):
at this table and we're changing things.
It felt really good,
and it still feels verygood, you know? So--
- Yeah, healing throughaction, that's what it's about.
- Yeah.- So David, David Guizar
you are from Los Angeles.
David we would love to hear from you.
You know, please tell us alittle bit about your story
and about your healing journey
(08:34):
and what it means from your perspective
to be a survivor organizer
and also a founding member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice.
- Cool, cool, yes, hi everyone.
My name is David Guizar,
I am, as you mentionedAswad, I'm from Los Angeles
and you know, in 1983, my oldestbrother Oscar was murdered.
(08:56):
And I remember, you know,
just how tragic that wholeexperience was as a young kid,
10 years old, you know, justdoing my thing that morning.
You know, helping out our family,
decorate a car with littlepaper flowers for a quinceanera.
(09:19):
And you know, my sister-in-law,
she just popped out of nowhere.
I haven't really seen her in a while.
And she was like, "Hey, your mom".
And I was like, you know,
kind of let her know howto get into the apartment.
And then she was able to get there.
And I was in the parking lot,
I could hear my mom right behind me.
(09:39):
And so to be able tohear my mom, you know,
like scream out like thatloud, like, "No, no, no".
And just cry, and I was like, damn!
Like what happened?
Right, so I went inside and, and yeah,
so at a very young age, man, I, you know,
lived through that experienceof seeing, you know,
(10:02):
that impact of that trauma,you know, with my mom.
And I think I just went like,
unlike auto mode, you know, to not,
you know, feel likewhat I was experiencing
in terms of sadness and,you know, the need to cry
(10:24):
and all of that.
I just felt like, you know,when I reflect on that
I was in shock, right?
I was in shock.
I was in disbelief thatthat was happening.
So I didn't think I would growup to be like 18 years old.
You know, my brother wasmurdered when he was 17.
So for me to get to 18, 19,20, it was just like, wow!
(10:46):
Like I'm making it through this, right?
So that really haunted me, youknow, that whole experience.
And just the experienceof seeing so many fallen
people in my community.
Shortly after losing my brother,
I think within months, another young man
was murdered at a placethat we had just moved into.
(11:11):
And I remember, you know,
just trying to help and holding this guy
and he ended up not makingit through that shooting,
you know, so very direct, you know,
right there in the midst of it, you know?
But I began to kinda liketalk about it, you know?
And even though I wasn't well,
(11:31):
I think it really opened up aspiritual element in my life
that has taken some timeto mature, you know?
- David, can you talk alittle bit about, you know,
your, you know, you becoming, you know,
a member of Crime Survivorsfor Safety and Justice,
and from your perspective, like, you know,
(11:52):
you've organized survivors, you know,
for years in California,
now you're doing it across the country.
Can you talk a little bit, you know,
what does survivor organize mean to you?
- As a founding member
of Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice
in 2012, I was invited by agood friend of mine, Aqeela,
(12:14):
you know, Sherrills to be a part of
Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice,
you know, a couple of months later
my brother Gilbert, youknow, was murdered as well.
And that was really, really devastating.
So I walked into to that situation,
(12:39):
you know, fresh of losing another brother,
fresh of reliving a lot oftheir trauma in my family
from a different angle, right?
Being older, I quickly learnedthat accessing services
and the support that my family needed,
(13:04):
not just in my household,
but my brother given thathe was older and he had,
he has children that they needed services.
And I was finding thesethings out in the moment.
So my, that experience and my experience
of being at the table with other survivors
(13:25):
in the formation of CrimeSurvivors for Safety and Justice
grew into, you know,
sharing my story from adifferent perspective,
a perspective of what happened,
what has been missing, and how can we
as a collective advocate
(13:45):
for the support that isneeded in our community.
I have heard you Aswadshare about, you know,
your incident, right?
Of that the young man who shot you
had been shot four years before.
And what could have it looked like
if he would have been helped, right?
In my assessment of the youngman that shot my brother,
(14:09):
Gilbert, in 2012,
he ended up shooting my brother over like
the stupidest thing, you know?
Real minor, something that wecould easily deflate our ego
and walk away from.
And he unfortunately madethe mistake of doing that.
He's now in prison.
My brother is no longer with us physically
(14:31):
and his kids miss him a lot,
and there's a lot ofuntreated trauma, you know?
So that's why advocacy is important.
That's why sharing my story is important.
That's why I know that I'mnot the only one, right?
When I'm listening to Meganand her sharing of her story
in Miami, and I'm like in LA
and you are out therein Michigan, Connecticut
(14:55):
in those different areas.
It's like, man, we sharethe same, you know,
similar elements of our experiences
are tied together, you know?
- Yeah, thanks, David.
So let's talk about that, right?
You know, talk about, youknow, each of us, you know,
have, you know, been through experiences,
but all of us have kind of, you know,
(15:16):
taken those experiencesto being able to help
you know, organize otherpeople and help train leaders
to change policies.
So you all have, you know,
trained other survivorsacross the country,
in your communities asorganizers, and also as advocates.
And you also have worked topass a legislative reforms
in your states.
So Megan, you know, you are currently the
(15:38):
Crime Survivor for Safety and Justice
Chapter Coordinator for the Miami chapter.
So tell us what is like, you know,
what are some of the thingsthat you do within your chapter
and what have you seen,
some of the impact you've seen emerge
from your work with survivors in Miami?
- Miami is such a unique city in itself.
There's a lot of thingsthat happen in Miami.
(15:59):
I think violence here is something that
many of us have normalized,honestly and unfortunately,
because we are somewhatdesensitized to it.
And I think it's because manyof my members have found it
as a way to cope.
And so knowing that whenI became the coordinator,
I wanted to be very intentional
that my members were able to access
(16:23):
whatever tools we canaccess on a community level
that would be helpful for wherethey're at in their journey
and helpful for what theyneed right now to heal.
And some examples of thatis myself and my colleague,
Trenesse oftentimes wouldget together in a room
and really sit and think like,
(16:44):
who are some people in the community
that we could bring together right now
based on their skillset.
We would think of psychologists,
we would think of people who are using
trauma informed approachesof having conversation,
like conscious conversationswith our survivors.
I developed a curriculumwith our members where
annually we'd have an event,
and the theme was healing comes in waves.
(17:06):
And we would go out by the beach.
'Cause we are surroundedby water here in Miami.
We are fortunate to have that.
And so we went out to thebeach and we would just sit
and have meditations,
and we will write love lettersto ourselves as survivors
and love letters to our lovedones as on Valentine's day.
Or we would have momentswhen we go out there
(17:27):
and we light a candle duringNational Crime Victims'
Rights Week for one of our loved ones.
And when we're on the beach
and we're having thoselike moments together
as a joint community,
what we really get to seeand experience is that
looking back at us is areflection of our journey,
that's what the waves represent.
(17:49):
That sometimes, youknow, the tides are high,
sometimes it's low.
Sometimes you are on the top of the wave
and you're riding it.
And you're just, that'swhat it feels like.
You're floating above your healing journey
or you're somewhere in between struggling.
And so our members come together
and they utilize that space to really
look at their healing journeyfrom a different lens.
(18:11):
And outside of that,
we have a lot of timeswhere we just come together
and think of ways we can heal.
We've had healing through expression.
So we've had dance or we've had painting.
We've had spoken word.
Movement that would belike a mindful movements
or just like shaking andmoving around jittering.
Why we do them in our chapters is because
(18:33):
our members don't haveaccess to therapy sometimes.
And they don't, maybe theydon't want to be in the space.
They're not in the space right now
where they wanna talk to a therapist.
Talk therapy is not for everyone.
But what I have found
through the work we do in our chapter is
it means something whensomeone looks to you
and unlike people whowalk past you day to day
and you can say, oh,
(18:53):
they don't know anythingabout what it's like to be me.
Your inner space wheresomeone looking at you
might actually know whatit's like to be where you are
in your journey.
And so rather than havingthe right words to say
because sometimes thereare none, you're just there
and you are not alone.
And you know that in that moment.
'Cause you're in a roomsurrounded by people
who are just like you survivingand choosing to do it daily.
(19:15):
And so with each, you know,
opportunity to get with more members,
you learn more things.
Or sometimes in smaller spaces,
you learn more about an experience.
When it comes to how we do legislation,
a lot of that comes out ofpolicy retreats that we have
where we think about our experience.
So sometimes it's gettingour community leaders
(19:36):
in a space and saying,like David said earlier,
what is it that youneeded in the aftermath
that you didn't have access to?
And if you could do something different,
what would that be?
And that might changebased on how you, you know,
I've been probably doingthis for five years
and maybe it doesn't feel good.
I don't feel like theseare a wins anymore.
How do you lift that up
and still encourage themto keep going in the work?
(19:59):
You do so by saying, we'reall here in this time.
And just because we thinkthat we're not doing anything,
we have to remind eachother of all that we've done
for each other along the way.
So the support has been oneof the most rewarding things
I think about our chapter here.
- Yeah, and I think like, you know,
that peer to peer support that we provide,
(20:20):
that community that we provide
the opportunities todo different activities
whether it's meetings and healing vigils
and going to Survivor Speak, you know,
like the benefits of being part of this,
this community, you know,
you can't put a price on that.
You know, you can't puta price on, you know,
connecting with other survivors
who you're going to havea lifetime connection
(20:42):
and a relationship with,
but also you're, you know,through this process, you know,
we're gonna help train you,you know, to be a leader,
to change policies,
to bring those resources in communities.
David would love to hearfrom you about, you know,
about the trainings thatyou are facilitating.
Like what do you talkabout in those trainings?
What are some of the content?
And also what, how has the trainings
(21:05):
that you've been doing how hasit impacted the participants?
- You know, part of therole that I've I've served
in is facilitating thebuilding a network of leaders
to win new safety priorities, right?
So with the buildingand network of leaders
element of our training, you know,
(21:25):
it gives us the opportunityto reflect on that timeline
of where we started doingour advocacy, right?
In California, we talked about SB 580,
that gave us the opportunityto work on California
coming out of a deficit,financial deficit,
(21:47):
had a surplus in victim'scompensation, right?
So we talked about how weworked with a champion,
Senator Leno, to bring this bill alive
that had already beenvetoed to bring it back,
and we ourselves went toadvocate and say like,
(22:07):
hey, I need trauma recovery.
I need a trauma recoverycenter in my community.
It provided the funds
for the first three traumarecovery centers, right?
And then we rolled out Prop 47
that gave us an opportunity to reduce
incarceration of low level crimes,
(22:30):
petty theft, receiving stolen property,
possession of drugs for use
and things of that nature, right?
To name a few.
And that set off areduction in incarceration
in our prison system
and it also led tosavings of costs, right?
(22:52):
And then that money was redistributed
through a very sophisticatedsystem within the state
for that money to makeits way back available.
So I think that the trainingis important because
people get to step backand see themselves.
And I think that the activitywithin our curriculum
(23:14):
that really hits home,
is when we do thelandscape analysis, right?
In the landscape analysis,
the survivor being in themiddle in a rounded, you know,
counter like clockwise,
we're able to see what thesystems that are in place
that could respond to usat a time of need, right?
The school district, Iwas 10 years old, Megan,
(23:36):
when my brother was murdered.
I went to school and Iwas walking like a zombie,
like, where do I go to?
Right, so we talk about howdid that school district
respond to my need?
How did you know, children's services,
family services, respond orprobation or parole, right?
So I think it gives usa lens for people to
(24:00):
put themselves in the middleand evaluate and assess
how that system has worked for them,
or has not and how do we activate members
to even create ideas for different laws?
- Cool, so David,
you were just talkingabout policies, right?
And the impact of how survivors, you know,
(24:22):
work to advocate for moretrauma recovery centers,
advocate for things like Proposition 47.
Megan, you worked on a historic bill
in the state of Florida in 2019,
the most expansive criminaljustice bill in Florida
in the past 20 years withthe passing of HB 7125.
(24:43):
So what's the story of that bill HB 7125?
And what was it like to see the bill
created from a room of survivors
is now in statue to better help survivors
in state of Florida?
- Oh, man, so that isdefinitely like, that was,
I think one of the highlightsof that year for me, 2019.
It was just a passing of HB 7125.
(25:05):
And a little over 20of our survivor leaders
come together in Miami for three days.
And we just really, like I said earlier
we sat down and talked aboutsome of the things that
we really wish we had andlike when we were healing
or that we knew about in theaftermath of our experiences
and when we came togetherand really showed that out
(25:27):
as survivor leaders,
that we came and brought ourexperience to that space.
But we also came and brought
all the experience of the stories
that we hold space for in our community.
So like for me,
I was in that space thinking of myself
as a survivor of gun violence,
of my mom and my sisterand what it is that they,
that I wish people knew about them
and what they would need as asurvivor of this same crime.
(25:49):
We took it a step further.
I thought about the survivors
that I'm often on thephone with late at night,
who just, it's just needing totalk to someone or, you know,
they're on the phonesaying I'm up researching
all this stuff.
'Cause a lot of times survivors feel like
they have to be their own advocate.
They feel like they haveto advocate for their self
and their loved one toget any sense of healing.
(26:11):
And so, we brought thoseexperiences together
and over three days wedid several activities
that we was like, you know,
if we could have our ownlaw, what would that be?
You know, if we could thinkabout something in our after,
in our experience and applythat to make sure that
the experience withsomeone else is easier,
what would that thing be?
(26:31):
And we went, we were in about five groups
and over those three days,
we really were able to comeup with some concrete things
that ended up becomingwhat was on our agenda
for HB 7125 and the passing of that,
it being historic in itself,
the first of its kind in 20years, that's a big deal,
(26:53):
but it felt good to knowthat survivors did this.
We did this.
We came together and no onecould have done this better
than we did, because this is about us.
Oftentimes survivors aremissing from these conversation
when it relates to what do survivors need?
Someone saying what we need
and they haven't experienced it.
(27:13):
And so knowing that this wassomething that was passed,
but it was coming from just our pain
that just showed us how wecould transform anything
in our experience intosomething different.
And with us bringing it together,
we were able to highlightsome of those issues
and we removed some of those barriers
that were restricting our survivors
from getting access to resources.
(27:36):
One of those barriers was the timeline,
reporting time prior tothe passing of HB 7125,
you had about 72 hoursto report your crime
and you would get resourcesup to I believe a year.
And when we went to Tallahasseewith our survivor leaders,
we went from taking 25leaders to like 45 leaders
(27:58):
from Miami alone to goand talk about this.
And all of them said, we need more time.
And so, you know, wedid, we got more time.
So we moved it from 72 hours.
I believe you have a year now to report
and you have all men can receive services
up to three years after victimization.
And that in itself,
(28:20):
if you don't understandhow big of a deal it is
just think about in the aftermathof any of our experiences.
David, like you said,you went back to school.
For me, I didn't go back to school,
but when I returned the next year,
I was going to therapy andgoing to school at the same,
like, you know, course of time.
And I wasn't thinking aboutfilling out a form to go
and get some victim's compensation.
(28:43):
I don't even think people realize that
I just became a victim yesterday.
I'm not even comfortable, you know,
filling out a form sayingthat this is who I am.
This is not me.
And so now we have time forsurvivors to really take us,
take a moment to process whathas just happened to them
and then actually move into a space
where they can utilizesome of those resources
(29:05):
that are now accessible to them.
And we also removed barriersthat will allow people
who are living with previous convictions,
who are returning citizensand should be able to work
and reduce the cycles of crimeand not having to go back
and do anything just toput food on the table.
We made it where they'reable to get certifications
(29:27):
to do things like simplycutting hair, being a barber,
just giving people anopportunity to reclaim
normalcy in their lifeand purpose in their life
or whatever that looks like.
That's what that feltlike when it came to that
being a win for us.
The journey to doingthat I think, you know,
so many of our leadersin California as well,
(29:48):
because we had to really pull on and say,
hey, things that areworking in other places,
we should see how it couldwork for us, you know?
And so having another modelor a sister model to go off of
was really important inthat process as well.
And knowing our legislators
and having real conversations with them.
So it was all necessary and it was good.
(30:09):
It was a good run.
- And it is just sopowerful, just like how,
you know, survivors, you know,
in that room in Florida came together
and looked at the barriers,but offered solutions to those.
And so being able to passthat bill in Florida,
being able to pass the billswe've worked on in California
and across the country, notonly survivors are working to,
(30:31):
you know, remove barriersto victim compensation,
not only survivors areadvocating for more services
for survivors, moretrauma recovery centers,
protections for survivors, butsurvivors are also, you know,
really elevating their voice
as it relates to criminal justice reform.
So Megan, you just talked about how
that bill in Florida HB 7125,
(30:52):
not only removed barriers
and increased accessservices for survivors,
but also those comingout of the justice system
being able to help thoseindividuals access jobs, right?
And so that is important.
Like that is safety.
That's public safety in that.
And that's ensuring that survivors
are at the center of conversation.
So David we would love to hear for you,
(31:13):
what is your vision forsafety in this country?
- First of all,
people need to be treatedlike humans, right?
I think at the core ofwhat we're speaking about
when something was missing in our lives.
I remember when I wantedto get some information
(31:36):
around victim services at thedistrict attorney's office
after my brother was murdered,
I couldn't get that.
You know, when I wanted toget some help for my mom,
after my brother Gilbert was murdered,
I couldn't get that, right?
And it really inspired meto continue to do the work.
(31:57):
And unfortunately, we're seeingthis part of my vision as
the aftermath, we know thatthings like that happen.
In a way of prevention,
there's definitely needsto be more investment
in our communities,urban communities, right?
There needs to be aninvestment of parks and regs.
(32:20):
There needs to be an academicinvestment for our schools
in our afterschool programs,enrichment programs.
There needs to be aninvestment in law enforcement
needing to have coping skills
and the skill set to betterdeal with the community that is
(32:45):
there to protect and to serve.
The approach needs to be holistic, right?
Mental health, emotional health.
There's needs to be a verycomprehensive approach
to what public safety looks like.
It needs to be safety for all.
(33:06):
It needs to be equitable.
There's a real need fornutrition in our communities.
Man, you know, a healthy bodyis a healthy mind, you know?
So I mean, there's just so you know,
safety is multilayered man.
And I think that thebeginning of this conversation
(33:28):
is opening up that imagination
for people to really becreative and insightful
of how beautiful life can be.
Men we used to play baseball.
Baseball is my first passion, you know?
And what a broomstick and rocks man.
That was how we got downand we had innocent fun.
(33:48):
You know what I mean?
We need to provide those typeof environments for children,
for families to be ableto laugh and enjoy, right?
We know that victimizationis way more than
what we've share, which is gun violence.
We know that there's sexual assault,
we know that there's domestic violence,
(34:08):
we know that there are somany different elements
of harm that exists,
and that our networkhas grown into, right?
That we speak to that,
that we're bigger than the gun violence
that has happened in our experiences
and that we're respectful of that process,
and we learn that inclusivenessis important for this work.
(34:32):
And so, that is the type of adapting that
public safety needs tobe open to, you know?
- Yeah, but thank you, David.
One thing that I,
that you didn't share about what safety,
your vision for safetywas incarceration, right?
So for those of you who are, you know,
listening to today's podcast, you know,
(34:52):
when you talk tosurvivors, there's services
there's more programs for youth
there's mental health treatment,
drug treatment there's all of those things
that we have taken awayfrom communities for decades
to invest in criminal justice systems.
We're not safer.
You know what safety is,
is more investments in a lot of things,
(35:13):
and it's not just on incarceration.
So David thank you somuch for sharing of how,
what safety looks like toyou and what safety look like
to all of us, which isbeing able to, you know,
to be outside in our communityand playing little things
like baseball, right?
Things that bring us joy.
And that's how we have to getour communities back to where
our children and youthand communities are safe
(35:36):
'cause that's what safety looks like.
Safety is not just locking people up
and throwing away the key.
Megan, before we closetonight, I wanna hear from you,
Megan and David with closing remarks,
but Megan, what does healingthrough action mean to you?
- When we talk about the cycle of crime,
we have to also think aboutall the people who are
(35:57):
affected by this cycle.
And sometimes though I mightnever know what it's like to be
the one who pulls the trigger,
I know what it is like to beon the other side of the gun.
And so, I think healingthrough action is about
having that conversation,
reaching across to someonewho might be on the other side
and saying, I don't knowwhat it's like to be you,
but I want to understandwhat made you do that?
(36:17):
What is it that you needed?
You know, taking these same questions
that we asked our survivor members,
what I see and I have donethis gone into, you know,
Everglades Correctionalhere in Miami-Dade,
and just talk to some ofthese brothers in blue about
what is it that made youdo what you did, right?
And if you could apologizeto someone, you know,
if you hurt somebody and you don't know,
(36:37):
but you could apologizeto them, would you?
And you know, me notknowing who I was, you know,
not knowing who shotme, who that person is,
I allowed that.
I allowed that conversation
and that opportunity of forgiveness
to be brought into the forefrontof both of our experiences.
Healing isn't linear altogether.
For everyone it looks different.
(36:57):
There's no carbon copy.
There's no right or wrong.
It's just what works for you.
And as long as you're doing something
and not just sitting there and saying,
I'm a victim and you know,that's all I'll ever be.
I feel like when it comes to that,
there are no victims, that's a volunteer.
And I choose to not be avolunteer to my victim experience.
So I definitely think that
(37:19):
that's what healingthrough action is for me
and continuously havingconversations in our community
that will let people know that
we survivors wanna be heard and seen
and know that we're safe
and know that the peoplewho are supposed to at least
care about how we heal in our community,
that they're doing those things.
So for my members, that'swhat it looks like.
And so long as that's whatthey want and they need,
I'm working with that, you know?
(37:40):
So that's what it lookslike to me (chuckles).
- Thank you so much, Meg.
And you David,
what does healing throughaction mean to you?
- It's the pause, you know?
Obviously we spoke in context of
what it means to be a survivor leader,
(38:01):
as we were getting ready
to jump into this beautifulconversation this afternoon,
you asked us to pause, right?
To take that deep breath,
and if we're gonna be able to continue
and be efficient in what we're doing,
(38:22):
you know, we need to pause, right?
And take care of ourselves.
- Thank you so much,David, thank you, Megan.
In the United States alone,
there are many survivors just like us.
In fact, there is anabout 66 million people
or victims of a crimein the last 10 years.
And half of them werevictims of violent crime.
(38:44):
So that's about 31 million Americans
have been a victim of a crimeand tens of millions like us,
you know, aren't receivingthe help in the healing
and the support that theyneed, and this must change.
And you all as survivor leadersare working to change that.
So just wanna thank youall so much for joining
(39:06):
today's episode, you know,
the opportunity to hear fromyou all as survivor leaders
in organizing, but most importantly
how survivors are coming together to heal
and also change policies as well.
Once again, thank youso much David and Megan
for being with us here today.
For those of you who are listening,
you want to get involved with
(39:27):
Crimes Survivors for Safety and Justice,
join a local chapter.
You can go to our website at www.cssj.org
to join Megan's chapter in Miami
or to join David's chapter in Los Angeles.
We have over 40 chaptersacross the country and growing.
So we're always looking for volunteers,
always looking forleaders across the country
(39:49):
to help us be part of chapters,
but also to help us launchmore chapters as well.
You can also text theword survivor right now.
So text the word survivor to 97779
to join our Crimes SurvivorsSafety and Justice.
As always it has been apleasure to talk with you,
David and Megan.
(40:09):
Thank you all so much
for being the guests on today's episode
of Crime Survivors Speak.
If you want to tune into the podcast,
you can go to cssj.org/podcasts
where you can watch this video.
You also can listen tothe podcasts on Spotify,
Amazon, PlayList, iTunes,
(40:30):
and all streaming platform to listen more
to crimes survivorsfrom across the country
that are healing through action.
When survivors speak, change happens.
Thank you all.
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