July 9, 2024 • 23 mins
In this episode, Anthony DiMartino dives into his journey into criminal justice reform, highlighting the transformative power of survivor stories to drive policy change. He reveals the secrets to building strong relationships with legislators through shared values, active listening, and showing up consistently. By centering the voices of those most impacted, Anthony shares effective strategies for achieving long-term policy change that empowers survivors. He tackles the challenges of navigating misinformation and fear mongering, particularly around Proposition 47, and showcases its positive impact on community reinvestment and trauma recovery centers. With key lessons from successful advocacy, Anthony emphasizes the importance of valuing every individual and maintaining a long-term perspective. Tune in for an inspiring discussion on leveraging personal experiences for impactful civic engagement and legislative success.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aswad Thomas (00:01):
Welcome to
Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director of Crime
Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national network of 200,000
victims of crime across the country.
And if you haven't already subscribed
to stay up to date on the latest
episodes, you can do that on
YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
other streaming services by clicking
(00:22):
the link on your screen or going
to the website at www.cssj.org.
Today, I have another
amazing guest with me.
We're joined by Anthony DiMartino.
Anthony is the director of government
affairs at the Californians for Safety
& Justice, where he leads legislative
and budget advocacy efforts in the
(00:43):
California capital and also across
the state and local communities.
Anthony comes from a background in
social work and also social welfare.
Anthony is extremely experienced and
deeply knowledgeable advocate for passing
criminal justice reform, but also passing
a lot of survivor centered policies.
So for anyone interested in learning the
real behind the scenes work of passing
(01:05):
legislation and policy change, this
episode is going to be full of important
information, motivation to help you
get started in that advocacy journey.
Anthony, thank you so much for
joining today's conversation.
Anthony DiMartino (01:18):
Thank you
so much Aswad and thank you for
that beautiful introduction.
I really do appreciate that
and I'm humbled to be here.
Aswad Thomas (01:24):
Awesome.
So let's get right into it.
So Anthony, can you share some of
the experiences that led you to
join Californians for Safety and
Justice and become deeply involved in
reforming the criminal justice system?
Anthony DiMartino (01:35):
Yeah, when I was
thinking about this question, the
first thing that came to mind, and
it's probably the most transformative
experience that I had was in undergrad
and college at the University of Redlands.
I participated as a volunteer in a
program that went into the local juvenile
hall, and it was my first time ever
going into a locked facility setting.
(01:55):
Prior to that, I had worked with youth out
in community, but I had never gone into
a locked facility and the very first time
I ever went in, I was just so emotionally
disturbed and traumatized by seeing
young folks that looked like me, right?
Mostly black and brown kids, boys locked
in cells, cages, and it broke my heart.
And that first time I went in, I had an
(02:18):
interaction with a young man that really
drove home the point of experiences and
systems and how I very easily could have
been a kid caught up in that experience
and how my life may look different.
And so after leaving the hall that
day, I vowed to do everything in my
power to change societal conditions
(02:39):
so that we didn't have any need
for cages for kids and adults, and
that led me to pursue my master's
in social welfare after undergrad.
And I've always had just, I think, a
deep compassion and empathy for folks.
And I was really drawn to criminal justice
work and then Californians for Safety
and Justice because I always say that
all the failures in society that we have.
(03:01):
Whether it's, we don't provide
affordable housing, we don't have
good paying jobs, we don't have access
to health care or good education.
All of those failures, we always end up
criminalizing folks on the back end, and
we have a bloated criminal justice system.
So as someone that cares about social
justice across the board, working on
criminal justice reform issues, criminal
legal issues, provides me an opportunity
(03:22):
to connect all those dots, and really
make a case for better investments in
all of those other areas as well, and
Californians for Safety and Justice
to me was an org I met right away
when I started as a staffer at the
California State Assembly, and I loved
that they organized crime survivors
and people living with old convictions,
and that they recognize there's a ton
(03:43):
of overlap in those two worlds, and
that they brought both groups together
to advocate for safety and justice.
Aswad Thomas (03:51):
Thank you, Anthony.
You and I have had many conversations
over the years, and just hearing you talk
about that experience of working in a
local facility really brought me back to
when I was pursuing my master's degree.
And my first internship was at the
Connecticut Juvenile Training School.
And just like you, I had that same
experience of seeing young black
(04:11):
and brown boys, right in those
units and just feeling really
heartbroken after leaving that day.
And I remember just like you,
I kind of left that facility.
And said, man, I want to make this
change, which really led me to doing
the work that I'm doing today, which
is similar to the work that you have
been doing, the work that Californians
for Safety and Justice is doing.
So thank you so much for sharing that and
(04:32):
kind of what led you to doing this work.
Anthony, as someone who's deeply involved
in not only criminal justice, but.
deeply involved in advocating
for survivor centered policies.
Can you share some example of how
you've been able to effectively use the
personal stories of survivors to drive
meaningful policy change with legislators?
Anthony DiMartino (04:52):
Yeah, for sure.
And thanks Aswad for sharing your story.
Really just speaks to, like I
said, the connections we all have.
I think the story that really
comes to mind for me in regards to
making sure survivors are centered
and their stories are uplifted.
We've had this bill that we've been
working on for quite a while now, actually
back to the summer of 2020, George Floyd.
We introduced a bill with some of
(05:14):
our partners to try to make sure that
individuals that have been harmed or
families that have lost loved ones
to police use of force are eligible
to apply for victims compensation
here in the state of California.
For the most part, they are not eligible
for some technical reasons and some
reasons around police reporting.
(05:34):
So it's been a big fight
for us for several years.
The first year we introduced that
bill, it didn't make it because of the
price unfortunately attached to it.
And then the next year we brought
it back and we had some really great
success and we were getting close to
the finish line with the bill and we
weren't certain if we got the bill to the
governor, if the governor would sign it.
And so we were getting close to the
deadline to get the bill to the governor
(05:55):
and scheduled a call with the governor's
top legislative person, deputy, and
another person in their office and had
a few of our survivors on the Zoom that
have been affected by police violence.
And one woman shared her story of losing
her partner to police use of force.
And the whole Zoom was just emotional.
(06:17):
You could just feel the compassion
and the care for this individual.
And after that call, it was pretty
certain that if we got the bill to the
governor, the governor would sign it
and that the story did a whole lot to
really drive home the need for the bill.
Unfortunately, we didn't get the
bill off the last floor vote.
We're still working on it to this day.
But the power of that story, the power
(06:37):
of that experience, the emotion behind
it, the trauma moved some of the key
folks in the governor's office to feel
strongly about supporting the bill.
In that bill, we've had many powerful
conversations with members and staffers
where they've heard from loved ones
that have been affected by this issue.
Aswad Thomas (06:53):
Thank you for sharing that.
And for many people out
there that are listening.
Many of the legislators who you've talked
to in law enforcement don't see people,
especially victims and families impacted
by the use of force by police, are often
aren't seen as, as crime victims, right?
But go through that same process of
(07:14):
grieving, that same process of depression
and hurt and anger and that isolation, go
through the same traumatic experiences.
That's groundbreaking legislation that
you all are working on in California,
right, to ensure that people harmed,
families who lose loved ones to police
violence also get access to compensation.
(07:35):
It's huge.
So thank you for sharing
that story, but also for your
leadership these past few years.
Can you provide insights into how
advocates can establish and nurture
relationships with legislators to gain
support for survivor centered policies,
even if those legislators are folks you
may disagree with on many other issues?
Anthony DiMartino (07:54):
Yeah, that's
a great question, and I think
not even just relevant to policy
work, but I like to think about
relationships change the world.
Day to day, your relationship with
yourself, relationship with others.
So, I take it very seriously
in the work that I do.
How CSSJ shows up in the Capitol
when we're interacting with the
scheduler or the intern or the chief
of staff or the legislator themselves.
(08:16):
I think three things come to mind for me.
Always thinking about like shared values.
I think that's another big reason why
CSJ was an organization I was excited
to join when I left my previous job.
Thinking about the shared
values really of safety, right?
Everyone can relate to and wants
safety for their communities.
And starting from that place with
(08:37):
an individual legislator, a staffer,
even if you, they may not be
completely supportive of all of our
policies or be on the opposite side.
It's, it's hard to argue with the notion
that we all want and deserve safety.
So finding those different shared
values that you may have with the
individual you're trying to talk to,
whatever the issue is, starting from
that place and trying to build from
(08:58):
there is something I highly recommend.
Second, I think trying to do
more listening than talking.
If they're a good legislator,
I think they're doing a lot of
listening, but they also like to talk.
They're an elected official because they
want to represent their community, and
representing their community usually means
they have to speak up, and so getting them
to talk and feel like they're really being
heard by you, and that you can reflect
(09:18):
back to them what you're hearing, is a
really tremendous opportunity, right?
And making sure that folks feel
heard, whether you agree or you
don't, just feeling heard makes you
feel appreciated, and people will
remember how you made them feel.
And lastly, I think nurturing relationship
means being consistent and being
true to your word and to yourself.
So in this work, I've really had to
(09:39):
learn to say, I don't know when I don't.
And also to learn, like, I'll
get back to you, being consistent
with that and not over promising,
but over delivering when I can.
And always saying like, if I
don't know something, I don't
know, but I'll get back to you.
And so making sure I just show up for
those folks when I say I'm going to,
shows that we can be dependable and
counted on and that our survivors are
going to show up and show out and support.
Aswad Thomas (10:00):
We all want to be safe, so
establishing shared values are important.
Anthony, you also mentioned do
more listening than talking, right?
So as you're listening and active
listening, being able to repeat back what
you heard so that they feel that they're
being listened to and heard as well.
And just, I think most importantly,
be consistent and true to your
words and also true to yourself.
That's extremely important in organizing
(10:22):
in advocacy in local communities.
Also the work that you're doing
every day in state capitals as well.
Anthony, as you talked about the bill
that you all are working on in California,
advocating, it takes a lot of time to have
significant policy changes, also requires
that consistency, that persistence.
And we know that policy
takes a while, right?
So what strategies have you found
(10:44):
to be effective in working towards
policy change over time, especially in
a context of criminal justice reform
and survivor centered initiatives?
Anthony DiMartino (10:54):
Yeah, It
always goes back to centering the
individuals closest to the problem.
That's something that especially
this year, we're really trying
to put a big emphasis on.
COVID's still around and impacts
of COVID and the pandemic and
being kept in the house for years.
The effects of that specifically on
(11:14):
organizing and showing up and the
strategies that we can employ to be
successful, we're definitely impacted.
And the struggle has been really real
to get people comfortable in showing
up and even get them to a place
to where they can be in the halls.
And I think that's something that
the last few years it's shown and
it's given legislators and staff
(11:35):
not a false sense of folks aren't
watching, but there just hasn't been
that same presence in the Capitol.
And so a strategy we're really trying
to deploy is having our survivors and
our Time Done members in the Capitol at
least monthly and making sure they're
seen in the halls with their shirts.
They're doing literature drops.
They're meeting with legislators
(11:56):
and staff and just reminding
folks like, Hey, we're here.
This is what we care about.
We're your constituents.
Staffers really do appreciate that.
It breaks the monotony of everyday being
a staffer and legislators really want to
talk to people that have the stories and
that have been affected by these things,
and they want to hear about what the
needs are, they want to hear what the
successes are, and so uplifting survivors
(12:19):
and people that have been impacted,
that's, I think, the greatest strategy.
And then also, like, for them, the
individuals themselves, the survivors,
pulling back the curtain on like how
things work, right, and empowering them
so that they know better how they can
be successful and navigate the process.
And they can take that back to the
community and educate folks on how to
get involved, which then turns into
(12:40):
local power, which then turns into
elections and being able to hold folks
accountable and or run for office.
So I think just at the end of
the day, making sure we have
those folks at the table.
Coming to the Capitol as frequently
as possible and reminding them that
this is their house, their building,
that they can exercise their power
here and they have some agency and
control over the situation is to me
(13:03):
the greatest strategy that we can have.
Aswad Thomas (13:05):
And California has
been one of the leading States,
thanks to Californians for Safety
and Justice and Crime Survivor for
Safety and Justice in the state in the
passing of historic criminal justice
reforms and passing the historic
victim service reforms and expanding
things like trauma recovery centers.
In 2024, of course, we're going into
our presidential election this year
is something we always see around
(13:27):
important national, as well as
state and local elections, is this
rise in tough on crime rhetoric.
This has happened in places like
Washington DC, Louisiana, and
also there in California as well.
And I know you and the team and
advocates and organizations across the
country have been dealing a lot with
fear mongering and also misinformation
(13:48):
from opponents of Proposition 47.
Can you talk a little bit about
what's happening in the conversation
around Proposition 47 and how folks
can learn to navigate that kind of
misinformation when they're filling
out their ballots this November?
Anthony DiMartino (14:04):
So Proposition 47
passed in, in 2014 here in California.
And I think even before the passage of
it, there was misinformation about it.
So this isn't something new.
But to your point, Aswad, it's a part
of a larger narrative across the country
(14:24):
that frankly doesn't line up with what
the data and the research shows us.
Something I appreciate about Californians
for Safety and Justice and the Alliance.
We poll, right?
And we know that folks don't necessarily
feel safe, which doesn't align with what
the data tells us around safety and crime.
And so the narrative plays a big
(14:44):
part in driving how people do feel.
And also the conflation of other
issues, especially in California, right?
When it comes to substance use and
homelessness, which is an issue that
often gets conflated with feelings of
disorganization and safety and so folks
on the other side that would like to see
Prop 47 repealed or undermined, they've
(15:05):
been pushing this narrative for a long
time since like I said before even the
passage but it's really taken more root
because of the larger narratives across
the country on tough on crime and trying
to depict certain places as not being
well run or safe for political agendas.
And so we are facing a strong
backlash right now, especially
(15:26):
in the spaces of criminalization
of substance uses and theft when
it specifically comes to Prop 47.
Try to get good information
is the work we're doing and
some of our partners, right?
And we're constantly trying to
report out what's actually happening.
I do think the media in California over
the last several months have really
tried to take a deep dive and really
(15:48):
dispel fact from fiction on issues
around Prop 47 and crime in general,
and then state legislators have become
more vocal, elected leaders like the
governor and the leader of the State
Assembly and the leader of the Senate.
They've been more vocal with their
comments in regards to what the direction
of the state is when it comes to issues
related to Prop 47 and what can be done.
(16:10):
So I think over the next several weeks
and months, really paying attention
to what some of the state leaders
are saying and groups like us can
direct folks to what the facts are
out in the landscape on Prop 47.
Aswad Thomas (16:22):
If you are following what's
happening in California and want to get
real accurate information, you can follow
Californians for Safety and Justice
social media, real accurate information.
So follow Californians for Safety and
Justice on Instagram at Safe and Just.
Anthony, I wanted to just back up
a little bit about Proposition 47.
Can you talk a little bit about what
(16:43):
has been the impact of Proposition 47
for local communities and survivors?
What resources out there have
been saved that's being reinvested
into communities in the passing
of that historic reform in 2014?
And why is it important to continue to
sustain those resources and keep people
from going into the justice system?
Anthony DiMartino (17:03):
Yeah, I think
Proposition 47 did a couple things that
a lot of people don't know about, right?
When most people hear Prop 47 now,
they immediately think about theft.
And Prop 47 did several things,
and the biggest thing that I like to
talk about is the savings component.
The state has seen this year
included roughly 800 million dollars
saved over the passage of Prop 47.
(17:24):
So a little less than the last decade,
800 million has gone back into schools,
the creations of trauma recovery centers
and resources in community to help folks
that are dealing with substance abuse,
mental health issues, homelessness.
And just to really drive the
point home, just a little over
a decade ago, California only
had one trauma recovery center.
(17:45):
And now we're at 22, mostly
been funded by Prop 47 savings.
And so that's trauma recovery centers
serving crime survivors in community,
very little strings attached, just
being able to really support folks
on their healing journey and have
just great successful results.
And the same thing in the reentry,
mental health, substance abuse,
homelessness space, right?
(18:06):
We've seen the evaluations of those
programs have been funded over the last
several years and have just gotten great
results in serving folks that have, you
know, struggled with those challenges.
So if we start to roll back Prop 47,
we'll see definite rollbacks in the
savings, which then will trickle down
and hurt all these communities and
programs that have been funded through
(18:27):
the savings over the last several years.
Aswad Thomas (18:29):
Just incredible, over 800
million dollars saved being reinvested
back into communities, more schools,
re-entry programs, substance abuse, mental
health, and also the establishment of 22
trauma recovery centers in California.
And like, those are the things that
help stop the cycle of violence.
Those are the things
that helps people heal.
(18:49):
Those are the things that help people
get back to work for stability.
So if you want to get involved, once
again, if you are living in California,
you have family in California.
Please, please join Californians for
Safety and Justice and follow the social
media pages to really find out the great
work that has been happening over a
decade in California and the importance
(19:10):
of sustaining those efforts to really
save resources that goes back into
things that actually keep us all safe.
Anthony, reflecting on your experience
in advocating for numerous bills,
signed into law bills that you all
are currently working on, what are
some of the key lessons you've learned
from successful advocacy efforts?
(19:31):
And are there any common strategies
you've seen that work well that
other advocates and survivors who
are listening today can learn from?
Anthony DiMartino (19:39):
Everyone matters.
I think this is a lesson really
probably I learned just as a kid that's
served me well in general in life.
But when I say it in this context, like
everyone in a legislator's office matters.
The tendency can be sometimes for
folks that are not as experienced or
may not know how the process works,
(20:00):
they assign value to certain staffers
in the office or certain legislators.
And I like to take the approach that every
single person in the office, every single
person that works in the space that may
be an advocate or maybe on the other side
of the issue, they all matter and deserve
some level of respect and attention.
And so it may not, completely end
(20:21):
in a bill getting signed right
then and there or that year.
But people will remember that you paid
attention and that you cared about
details and that you paid attention to
individuals who may not have played the
biggest role but they played a role.
Because there's a lot of, in this work,
in the advocacy space, in the legislative
process, there's a lot of folks that
have their fingerprints on a bill
(20:44):
going through the process, or a budget
advocacy going through the process.
And so every little moment matters
and is an opportunity for you to build
rapport, build a relationship with
those folks that have their fingerprints
on the policy or on the budget.
And then I think having a longer
term view, the day to day can be
very consuming and tough at times.
(21:05):
There's some things that you just can't
control and so when there's those days
that are tough and something doesn't
seem like it's going right, I try to
take a step back and remind myself of
the things we've accomplished and look at
the bigger picture and know that some of
these issues have been issues for a long
time and it's okay that I may not solve
the problem that day, or I may not be the
(21:26):
person that ever solves the problem, but
at the end of the day, doing my best in
working to build a more positive world.
I think that strategy of just recentering
and reminding yourself that you're doing
your best and you're controlling what you
can control in this work is a strategy,
at least for me to keep myself successful
and engaged and passionate about the work.
Aswad Thomas (21:44):
There we go, y'all,
y'all heard the blueprint from the
one and only Anthony Dimartino.
Anthony, been a pleasure talking with you.
You've dropped so many lessons
and knowledge and gems, right?
For those who are interested in
getting involved in advocacy or for
those who are actively involved,
as you mentioned, everyone matters.
Every moment matters.
(22:05):
When there are days that are tough
that we all have, right, every
day, every week is a challenge.
So just being able to just take a
step back and just remind ourselves
what those long term goals are.
So Anthony, thank you so much for
being a guest on today's episode.
Anthony DiMartino (22:19):
Thank you so much.
And thank you to everyone that's out there
listening and doing their best every day.
Appreciate you all.
Aswad Thomas (22:24):
So thank you so much for
everyone for listening to today's episode.
Our membership is growing.
We are over 200,000 members.
If you're not a member,
you can become a member.
We want you to be part
of our healing community.
So go to cssj.org to join a local
chapter near you or a national network.
Remember, you can stream episodes of
the Crime Survivors Speak podcast on
YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and
(22:46):
other streaming platforms as well.
As we always say, we are
healing through action.
And when survivors speak, change happens.
Talk to you all on the next episode.
Welcome to
Crime Survivors Speak.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Director of Crime
Survivors for Safety and Justice.
We are a national network of 200,000
victims of crime across the country.
And if you haven't already subscribed
to stay up to date on the latest
episodes, you can do that on
YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
other streaming services by clicking
(00:22):
the link on your screen or going
to the website at www.cssj.org.
Today, I have another
amazing guest with me.
We're joined by Anthony DiMartino.
Anthony is the director of government
affairs at the Californians for Safety
& Justice, where he leads legislative
and budget advocacy efforts in the
(00:43):
California capital and also across
the state and local communities.
Anthony comes from a background in
social work and also social welfare.
Anthony is extremely experienced and
deeply knowledgeable advocate for passing
criminal justice reform, but also passing
a lot of survivor centered policies.
So for anyone interested in learning the
real behind the scenes work of passing
(01:05):
legislation and policy change, this
episode is going to be full of important
information, motivation to help you
get started in that advocacy journey.
Anthony, thank you so much for
joining today's conversation.
Anthony DiMartino (01:18):
Thank you
so much Aswad and thank you for
that beautiful introduction.
I really do appreciate that
and I'm humbled to be here.
Aswad Thomas (01:24):
Awesome.
So let's get right into it.
So Anthony, can you share some of
the experiences that led you to
join Californians for Safety and
Justice and become deeply involved in
reforming the criminal justice system?
Anthony DiMartino (01:35):
Yeah, when I was
thinking about this question, the
first thing that came to mind, and
it's probably the most transformative
experience that I had was in undergrad
and college at the University of Redlands.
I participated as a volunteer in a
program that went into the local juvenile
hall, and it was my first time ever
going into a locked facility setting.
(01:55):
Prior to that, I had worked with youth out
in community, but I had never gone into
a locked facility and the very first time
I ever went in, I was just so emotionally
disturbed and traumatized by seeing
young folks that looked like me, right?
Mostly black and brown kids, boys locked
in cells, cages, and it broke my heart.
And that first time I went in, I had an
(02:18):
interaction with a young man that really
drove home the point of experiences and
systems and how I very easily could have
been a kid caught up in that experience
and how my life may look different.
And so after leaving the hall that
day, I vowed to do everything in my
power to change societal conditions
(02:39):
so that we didn't have any need
for cages for kids and adults, and
that led me to pursue my master's
in social welfare after undergrad.
And I've always had just, I think, a
deep compassion and empathy for folks.
And I was really drawn to criminal justice
work and then Californians for Safety
and Justice because I always say that
all the failures in society that we have.
(03:01):
Whether it's, we don't provide
affordable housing, we don't have
good paying jobs, we don't have access
to health care or good education.
All of those failures, we always end up
criminalizing folks on the back end, and
we have a bloated criminal justice system.
So as someone that cares about social
justice across the board, working on
criminal justice reform issues, criminal
legal issues, provides me an opportunity
(03:22):
to connect all those dots, and really
make a case for better investments in
all of those other areas as well, and
Californians for Safety and Justice
to me was an org I met right away
when I started as a staffer at the
California State Assembly, and I loved
that they organized crime survivors
and people living with old convictions,
and that they recognize there's a ton
(03:43):
of overlap in those two worlds, and
that they brought both groups together
to advocate for safety and justice.
Aswad Thomas (03:51):
Thank you, Anthony.
You and I have had many conversations
over the years, and just hearing you talk
about that experience of working in a
local facility really brought me back to
when I was pursuing my master's degree.
And my first internship was at the
Connecticut Juvenile Training School.
And just like you, I had that same
experience of seeing young black
(04:11):
and brown boys, right in those
units and just feeling really
heartbroken after leaving that day.
And I remember just like you,
I kind of left that facility.
And said, man, I want to make this
change, which really led me to doing
the work that I'm doing today, which
is similar to the work that you have
been doing, the work that Californians
for Safety and Justice is doing.
So thank you so much for sharing that and
(04:32):
kind of what led you to doing this work.
Anthony, as someone who's deeply involved
in not only criminal justice, but.
deeply involved in advocating
for survivor centered policies.
Can you share some example of how
you've been able to effectively use the
personal stories of survivors to drive
meaningful policy change with legislators?
Anthony DiMartino (04:52):
Yeah, for sure.
And thanks Aswad for sharing your story.
Really just speaks to, like I
said, the connections we all have.
I think the story that really
comes to mind for me in regards to
making sure survivors are centered
and their stories are uplifted.
We've had this bill that we've been
working on for quite a while now, actually
back to the summer of 2020, George Floyd.
We introduced a bill with some of
(05:14):
our partners to try to make sure that
individuals that have been harmed or
families that have lost loved ones
to police use of force are eligible
to apply for victims compensation
here in the state of California.
For the most part, they are not eligible
for some technical reasons and some
reasons around police reporting.
(05:34):
So it's been a big fight
for us for several years.
The first year we introduced that
bill, it didn't make it because of the
price unfortunately attached to it.
And then the next year we brought
it back and we had some really great
success and we were getting close to
the finish line with the bill and we
weren't certain if we got the bill to the
governor, if the governor would sign it.
And so we were getting close to the
deadline to get the bill to the governor
(05:55):
and scheduled a call with the governor's
top legislative person, deputy, and
another person in their office and had
a few of our survivors on the Zoom that
have been affected by police violence.
And one woman shared her story of losing
her partner to police use of force.
And the whole Zoom was just emotional.
(06:17):
You could just feel the compassion
and the care for this individual.
And after that call, it was pretty
certain that if we got the bill to the
governor, the governor would sign it
and that the story did a whole lot to
really drive home the need for the bill.
Unfortunately, we didn't get the
bill off the last floor vote.
We're still working on it to this day.
But the power of that story, the power
(06:37):
of that experience, the emotion behind
it, the trauma moved some of the key
folks in the governor's office to feel
strongly about supporting the bill.
In that bill, we've had many powerful
conversations with members and staffers
where they've heard from loved ones
that have been affected by this issue.
Aswad Thomas (06:53):
Thank you for sharing that.
And for many people out
there that are listening.
Many of the legislators who you've talked
to in law enforcement don't see people,
especially victims and families impacted
by the use of force by police, are often
aren't seen as, as crime victims, right?
But go through that same process of
(07:14):
grieving, that same process of depression
and hurt and anger and that isolation, go
through the same traumatic experiences.
That's groundbreaking legislation that
you all are working on in California,
right, to ensure that people harmed,
families who lose loved ones to police
violence also get access to compensation.
(07:35):
It's huge.
So thank you for sharing
that story, but also for your
leadership these past few years.
Can you provide insights into how
advocates can establish and nurture
relationships with legislators to gain
support for survivor centered policies,
even if those legislators are folks you
may disagree with on many other issues?
Anthony DiMartino (07:54):
Yeah, that's
a great question, and I think
not even just relevant to policy
work, but I like to think about
relationships change the world.
Day to day, your relationship with
yourself, relationship with others.
So, I take it very seriously
in the work that I do.
How CSSJ shows up in the Capitol
when we're interacting with the
scheduler or the intern or the chief
of staff or the legislator themselves.
(08:16):
I think three things come to mind for me.
Always thinking about like shared values.
I think that's another big reason why
CSJ was an organization I was excited
to join when I left my previous job.
Thinking about the shared
values really of safety, right?
Everyone can relate to and wants
safety for their communities.
And starting from that place with
(08:37):
an individual legislator, a staffer,
even if you, they may not be
completely supportive of all of our
policies or be on the opposite side.
It's, it's hard to argue with the notion
that we all want and deserve safety.
So finding those different shared
values that you may have with the
individual you're trying to talk to,
whatever the issue is, starting from
that place and trying to build from
(08:58):
there is something I highly recommend.
Second, I think trying to do
more listening than talking.
If they're a good legislator,
I think they're doing a lot of
listening, but they also like to talk.
They're an elected official because they
want to represent their community, and
representing their community usually means
they have to speak up, and so getting them
to talk and feel like they're really being
heard by you, and that you can reflect
(09:18):
back to them what you're hearing, is a
really tremendous opportunity, right?
And making sure that folks feel
heard, whether you agree or you
don't, just feeling heard makes you
feel appreciated, and people will
remember how you made them feel.
And lastly, I think nurturing relationship
means being consistent and being
true to your word and to yourself.
So in this work, I've really had to
(09:39):
learn to say, I don't know when I don't.
And also to learn, like, I'll
get back to you, being consistent
with that and not over promising,
but over delivering when I can.
And always saying like, if I
don't know something, I don't
know, but I'll get back to you.
And so making sure I just show up for
those folks when I say I'm going to,
shows that we can be dependable and
counted on and that our survivors are
going to show up and show out and support.
Aswad Thomas (10:00):
We all want to be safe, so
establishing shared values are important.
Anthony, you also mentioned do
more listening than talking, right?
So as you're listening and active
listening, being able to repeat back what
you heard so that they feel that they're
being listened to and heard as well.
And just, I think most importantly,
be consistent and true to your
words and also true to yourself.
That's extremely important in organizing
(10:22):
in advocacy in local communities.
Also the work that you're doing
every day in state capitals as well.
Anthony, as you talked about the bill
that you all are working on in California,
advocating, it takes a lot of time to have
significant policy changes, also requires
that consistency, that persistence.
And we know that policy
takes a while, right?
So what strategies have you found
(10:44):
to be effective in working towards
policy change over time, especially in
a context of criminal justice reform
and survivor centered initiatives?
Anthony DiMartino (10:54):
Yeah, It
always goes back to centering the
individuals closest to the problem.
That's something that especially
this year, we're really trying
to put a big emphasis on.
COVID's still around and impacts
of COVID and the pandemic and
being kept in the house for years.
The effects of that specifically on
(11:14):
organizing and showing up and the
strategies that we can employ to be
successful, we're definitely impacted.
And the struggle has been really real
to get people comfortable in showing
up and even get them to a place
to where they can be in the halls.
And I think that's something that
the last few years it's shown and
it's given legislators and staff
(11:35):
not a false sense of folks aren't
watching, but there just hasn't been
that same presence in the Capitol.
And so a strategy we're really trying
to deploy is having our survivors and
our Time Done members in the Capitol at
least monthly and making sure they're
seen in the halls with their shirts.
They're doing literature drops.
They're meeting with legislators
(11:56):
and staff and just reminding
folks like, Hey, we're here.
This is what we care about.
We're your constituents.
Staffers really do appreciate that.
It breaks the monotony of everyday being
a staffer and legislators really want to
talk to people that have the stories and
that have been affected by these things,
and they want to hear about what the
needs are, they want to hear what the
successes are, and so uplifting survivors
(12:19):
and people that have been impacted,
that's, I think, the greatest strategy.
And then also, like, for them, the
individuals themselves, the survivors,
pulling back the curtain on like how
things work, right, and empowering them
so that they know better how they can
be successful and navigate the process.
And they can take that back to the
community and educate folks on how to
get involved, which then turns into
(12:40):
local power, which then turns into
elections and being able to hold folks
accountable and or run for office.
So I think just at the end of
the day, making sure we have
those folks at the table.
Coming to the Capitol as frequently
as possible and reminding them that
this is their house, their building,
that they can exercise their power
here and they have some agency and
control over the situation is to me
(13:03):
the greatest strategy that we can have.
Aswad Thomas (13:05):
And California has
been one of the leading States,
thanks to Californians for Safety
and Justice and Crime Survivor for
Safety and Justice in the state in the
passing of historic criminal justice
reforms and passing the historic
victim service reforms and expanding
things like trauma recovery centers.
In 2024, of course, we're going into
our presidential election this year
is something we always see around
(13:27):
important national, as well as
state and local elections, is this
rise in tough on crime rhetoric.
This has happened in places like
Washington DC, Louisiana, and
also there in California as well.
And I know you and the team and
advocates and organizations across the
country have been dealing a lot with
fear mongering and also misinformation
(13:48):
from opponents of Proposition 47.
Can you talk a little bit about
what's happening in the conversation
around Proposition 47 and how folks
can learn to navigate that kind of
misinformation when they're filling
out their ballots this November?
Anthony DiMartino (14:04):
So Proposition 47
passed in, in 2014 here in California.
And I think even before the passage of
it, there was misinformation about it.
So this isn't something new.
But to your point, Aswad, it's a part
of a larger narrative across the country
(14:24):
that frankly doesn't line up with what
the data and the research shows us.
Something I appreciate about Californians
for Safety and Justice and the Alliance.
We poll, right?
And we know that folks don't necessarily
feel safe, which doesn't align with what
the data tells us around safety and crime.
And so the narrative plays a big
(14:44):
part in driving how people do feel.
And also the conflation of other
issues, especially in California, right?
When it comes to substance use and
homelessness, which is an issue that
often gets conflated with feelings of
disorganization and safety and so folks
on the other side that would like to see
Prop 47 repealed or undermined, they've
(15:05):
been pushing this narrative for a long
time since like I said before even the
passage but it's really taken more root
because of the larger narratives across
the country on tough on crime and trying
to depict certain places as not being
well run or safe for political agendas.
And so we are facing a strong
backlash right now, especially
(15:26):
in the spaces of criminalization
of substance uses and theft when
it specifically comes to Prop 47.
Try to get good information
is the work we're doing and
some of our partners, right?
And we're constantly trying to
report out what's actually happening.
I do think the media in California over
the last several months have really
tried to take a deep dive and really
(15:48):
dispel fact from fiction on issues
around Prop 47 and crime in general,
and then state legislators have become
more vocal, elected leaders like the
governor and the leader of the State
Assembly and the leader of the Senate.
They've been more vocal with their
comments in regards to what the direction
of the state is when it comes to issues
related to Prop 47 and what can be done.
(16:10):
So I think over the next several weeks
and months, really paying attention
to what some of the state leaders
are saying and groups like us can
direct folks to what the facts are
out in the landscape on Prop 47.
Aswad Thomas (16:22):
If you are following what's
happening in California and want to get
real accurate information, you can follow
Californians for Safety and Justice
social media, real accurate information.
So follow Californians for Safety and
Justice on Instagram at Safe and Just.
Anthony, I wanted to just back up
a little bit about Proposition 47.
Can you talk a little bit about what
(16:43):
has been the impact of Proposition 47
for local communities and survivors?
What resources out there have
been saved that's being reinvested
into communities in the passing
of that historic reform in 2014?
And why is it important to continue to
sustain those resources and keep people
from going into the justice system?
Anthony DiMartino (17:03):
Yeah, I think
Proposition 47 did a couple things that
a lot of people don't know about, right?
When most people hear Prop 47 now,
they immediately think about theft.
And Prop 47 did several things,
and the biggest thing that I like to
talk about is the savings component.
The state has seen this year
included roughly 800 million dollars
saved over the passage of Prop 47.
(17:24):
So a little less than the last decade,
800 million has gone back into schools,
the creations of trauma recovery centers
and resources in community to help folks
that are dealing with substance abuse,
mental health issues, homelessness.
And just to really drive the
point home, just a little over
a decade ago, California only
had one trauma recovery center.
(17:45):
And now we're at 22, mostly
been funded by Prop 47 savings.
And so that's trauma recovery centers
serving crime survivors in community,
very little strings attached, just
being able to really support folks
on their healing journey and have
just great successful results.
And the same thing in the reentry,
mental health, substance abuse,
homelessness space, right?
(18:06):
We've seen the evaluations of those
programs have been funded over the last
several years and have just gotten great
results in serving folks that have, you
know, struggled with those challenges.
So if we start to roll back Prop 47,
we'll see definite rollbacks in the
savings, which then will trickle down
and hurt all these communities and
programs that have been funded through
(18:27):
the savings over the last several years.
Aswad Thomas (18:29):
Just incredible, over 800
million dollars saved being reinvested
back into communities, more schools,
re-entry programs, substance abuse, mental
health, and also the establishment of 22
trauma recovery centers in California.
And like, those are the things that
help stop the cycle of violence.
Those are the things
that helps people heal.
(18:49):
Those are the things that help people
get back to work for stability.
So if you want to get involved, once
again, if you are living in California,
you have family in California.
Please, please join Californians for
Safety and Justice and follow the social
media pages to really find out the great
work that has been happening over a
decade in California and the importance
(19:10):
of sustaining those efforts to really
save resources that goes back into
things that actually keep us all safe.
Anthony, reflecting on your experience
in advocating for numerous bills,
signed into law bills that you all
are currently working on, what are
some of the key lessons you've learned
from successful advocacy efforts?
(19:31):
And are there any common strategies
you've seen that work well that
other advocates and survivors who
are listening today can learn from?
Anthony DiMartino (19:39):
Everyone matters.
I think this is a lesson really
probably I learned just as a kid that's
served me well in general in life.
But when I say it in this context, like
everyone in a legislator's office matters.
The tendency can be sometimes for
folks that are not as experienced or
may not know how the process works,
(20:00):
they assign value to certain staffers
in the office or certain legislators.
And I like to take the approach that every
single person in the office, every single
person that works in the space that may
be an advocate or maybe on the other side
of the issue, they all matter and deserve
some level of respect and attention.
And so it may not, completely end
(20:21):
in a bill getting signed right
then and there or that year.
But people will remember that you paid
attention and that you cared about
details and that you paid attention to
individuals who may not have played the
biggest role but they played a role.
Because there's a lot of, in this work,
in the advocacy space, in the legislative
process, there's a lot of folks that
have their fingerprints on a bill
(20:44):
going through the process, or a budget
advocacy going through the process.
And so every little moment matters
and is an opportunity for you to build
rapport, build a relationship with
those folks that have their fingerprints
on the policy or on the budget.
And then I think having a longer
term view, the day to day can be
very consuming and tough at times.
(21:05):
There's some things that you just can't
control and so when there's those days
that are tough and something doesn't
seem like it's going right, I try to
take a step back and remind myself of
the things we've accomplished and look at
the bigger picture and know that some of
these issues have been issues for a long
time and it's okay that I may not solve
the problem that day, or I may not be the
(21:26):
person that ever solves the problem, but
at the end of the day, doing my best in
working to build a more positive world.
I think that strategy of just recentering
and reminding yourself that you're doing
your best and you're controlling what you
can control in this work is a strategy,
at least for me to keep myself successful
and engaged and passionate about the work.
Aswad Thomas (21:44):
There we go, y'all,
y'all heard the blueprint from the
one and only Anthony Dimartino.
Anthony, been a pleasure talking with you.
You've dropped so many lessons
and knowledge and gems, right?
For those who are interested in
getting involved in advocacy or for
those who are actively involved,
as you mentioned, everyone matters.
Every moment matters.
(22:05):
When there are days that are tough
that we all have, right, every
day, every week is a challenge.
So just being able to just take a
step back and just remind ourselves
what those long term goals are.
So Anthony, thank you so much for
being a guest on today's episode.
Anthony DiMartino (22:19):
Thank you so much.
And thank you to everyone that's out there
listening and doing their best every day.
Appreciate you all.
Aswad Thomas (22:24):
So thank you so much for
everyone for listening to today's episode.
Our membership is growing.
We are over 200,000 members.
If you're not a member,
you can become a member.
We want you to be part
of our healing community.
So go to cssj.org to join a local
chapter near you or a national network.
Remember, you can stream episodes of
the Crime Survivors Speak podcast on
YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and
(22:46):
other streaming platforms as well.
As we always say, we are
healing through action.
And when survivors speak, change happens.
Talk to you all on the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.