September 7, 2023 • 34 mins
In the mid to late 1800s, John Humphrey Noyes became a believer in perfectionism. He would eventually found two different communities of his own, the most well-known being in Oneida, New York which became known as the Oneida Community. They would practice free love and male continence. They would start an eugenics experiment later on in their existence. They would eventually dissolve the cult community and become a manufacturing company most well known for their silverware.Sources for this episode:
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(00:00):
Welcome to Crime on My Coffee.This podcast contains graphic descriptions and adult content
mature audiences only. Please Hi,y'all, and welcome to Crime with My
(00:31):
Coffee. I'm your fabulous hostess withthe Mostess, June, and I'm Suzanne.
We're gonna tell you some stories you'veheard, some of you haven't,
and some you'll wish you hadn't,all with a Texas twang. Well,
welcome back, guys, Welcome back, glad you could join us, absolutely,
and if you're here for the firsttime, go back and pick one
(00:53):
to listen to. We got plentyto choose from, lots of different kinds
of stories, and I'm sure you'llfind one you're gonna enjoy hopefully. Yes,
yes, Well, before we getstarted today, I would like to
give out my sincerest of apologies toall of you listeners. You were totally
(01:15):
getting this late. It's one hundredpercent my fault. The husband and I
went out of town at the endof last week. We left Friday Saturday.
We were supposed to stop by hisparents on our way home and then
come home. It's not quite sorry, but I didn't go quite as planned.
(01:36):
Didn't go quite as planned. Wegot about halfway to his parents' house
and our truck started overheating and actingup, so we pulled over let it
cool off, and then realized itwas dripping transmission fluid. So we got
the truck to his parents' house luckily, and then it just started dumping transmission
(01:57):
fluid everywhere. So it took usa couple of days at his parents' house
to be able to get our truckback to our town to get it to
our mechanic for them to look atit. And we didn't get home until
we were supposed to record two daysago, three days ago at this point,
yeah, and you were not home. No, I wasn't home.
(02:21):
And because it was just supposed tobe like a one night, two day
trip, I didn't take any ofmy recording stuff to record. No,
sorry, guys, I promise weare going to get this recorded tonight.
I am going to get it editedand I will get it out to you
as soon as it's done being edited, I swear, which because you are
the bomb, am I be alate night, but you'll get nice,
(02:46):
very nice. So with that beingsaid, what's in your mug? Well,
am my mug because it's still reallyreally hot, and we are doing
this at a different time. Ijust, you know, hadn't been home
from work very long. I actuallyhave a mocha frappuccino from Starbucks. It's
(03:10):
so hot, it's so hot.But whether or not the frappuccino, right,
oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, Butit's it's really good. I like
it. I like it hot,but I like it frappacciode, you know.
So, And what's in your mug. It's been a heck of a
weekend. It's been a heck ofa start to the week. And so
(03:35):
I'm drinking army of dark chocolate withDunkin Donuts extra extra creamer in it because
I needed the comfort. This isdefinitely something that you needed. I get
it for sure. And I don'tknow whether to cry or laugh about the
truck. You know, I wouldwait till you get the diagnostics back on
it, for sure, and thendecide whether you're gonna cry or laugh.
(04:00):
Yeah, fingers crossed, fingers crossed. But all right, Well, I
have something for us today. Nice, I'm ready. Are you ready for
it? It's not an episode thatwe normally would do. There there is
no murder, Okay, I'm aboutit and I'm ready, then there's no
(04:20):
murder. Okay. Well, beforebefore we get started, let me ask
you a question. Okay, you'veheard of Oneida. You know I have
the silver Ware company. Do youhappen to know if that's what you have
in your kitchen right now? Idon't know. I'm going to say no,
(04:43):
Okay, Well, I have anIda in my kitchen right now,
one of their much cheaper sets,but an Oneida set nonetheless? Okay,
Okay, I don't Yeah, I'mpretty sure min is not. But well,
did you have to double check?Maybe? Did you? Did you
know that the Oneida Sila where startedout as a side hustle for a sex
(05:04):
cult, uh, back in theeighteen hundreds. No, and I don't
even see how that correlates with eachother. But well today I'm going to
tell you. Okay, okay,all right, then I'm ready. I'm
(05:26):
definitely that's weird. That's so weird, I know, and it gets even
weirder the more you learn about it. It's crazy, okay, Okay.
Well. September third, eighteen eleven, Yes, eighteen eleven. John Humphrey
Noyez was born in Battleboro, Vermont. He was the son of a well
(05:49):
to do New England businessman who endedup serving in the US House of Representatives.
The dad did not John Humphrey Noyas. Okay. He was also the
cousin of the nineteenth president Rutherford B. Hayes. Oh okay, all right,
now, he was a redheaded introvertby all accounts. In eighteen thirty
(06:12):
he graduated from Dartmouth College. Hisoriginal plan for his life was to pursue
some sort of career down the lawpath. Okay, But he only studied
law for about a year before hismother, who was this super religious lady,
noticed that pretty much basically her sonwas just like way big mad because
(06:39):
he didn't have a way to dealwith his sexual frustrations or anything. So
she sent her virginal son to atent revival in eighteen thirty one. At
this tent revival, he got allswept up in the religious fervor of evangelist
Charles Finney and decided to all throughhis course and become a minister instead.
(07:03):
Oh okay, so he enrolls atAndover Theological Seminary in Massachusetts. He did
end up later transferring to Yale.While he was at Yale, he finally
decided he found what he was goingto zero in on what his personal beliefs
(07:24):
were, Okay, and he proclaimedhimself a perfectionist. He was a total
hardcore believer in perfectionism. Okay,what is that you ask? That is
the idea that it is possible foran individual to become free of sin in
(07:46):
this life through religious conversion and willpower. He believed that God could not expect
the impossible from his subjects, andso therefore the perfection that he demanded was
not only attainable, but it couldbe super easily accomplished by an inner sense
(08:07):
of salvation. Okay, not whatI know of as a perfectionist, not
how we use that word today.For sure, it's definitely not. It's
definitely not. He also was convincedthat the rapture had already occurred, that
(08:28):
Jesus Christ had already come back toearth. This had happened in the year
seventy a d. Saints and sinnershave been living separately for generations upon generations
upon generations. Because he was prettysold on the idea that Christ was going
to come back within one generation ofhis death, so it had to be
by seventy a D. That's whenit happened. Okay. Yeah, so
(08:50):
now sin, you no longer haveto fear sin. It's fine, okay.
In eighteen thirty six, he organizeda group of Bible Communists, as
they called themselves, in Putney,Vermont. In eighteen thirty seven, he
wrote this letter that he became knownfor, the battle Axe Letter, where
(09:15):
he advocated for free love. Hewas the original hippie, That's what I
was just fixing to say. Hecreated the Six Days, yes, but
he created them in the eighteen forties. It's fine, eman. Yeah.
See, he thought that since Christtaught that there would be no marriage in
(09:39):
heaven, there's not really a placefor monogamous marriage on earth either. Really,
that was pretty much what this letter, this battle Axe Letter says.
Okay, So in eighteen forty six, the Putney group adopted the principle of
complex marriage, which means that allof his followers were married to each other,
(10:05):
all the men were married to allof the women, and all of
the women were married to all ofthe men. Instead of a simple marriage,
which is just a monogamous marriage.Okay, okay. They were encouraged
to sleep with anyone they wanted towithin their group and just a year later,
in eighteen forty seven, they wererun out of Putney because of these
(10:28):
radical practices. Right Noyas had beenarrested for adultery and he ended up jumping
bail on this charge and fleeing thearea. So his family and his followers
they all went west. They wentto Oneida, New York, and in
eighteen forty eight they founded a newgroup, the Oneida Perfectionists Community. Okay,
(10:52):
here they lived on I read twodifferent things. I read fourteen acres
and I read thirty three acres.But either way, either way, that's
a lot of land I'm looking for, you know, ten acres and I'd
be happy, Oh may too,I'd be more than happy. But you
know, right, so, yeah, you know, fourteen acres. How
(11:15):
many ways in his group do weknow? I don't know exactly how many
were in his group when they migratedto Oneida, but I do know that
at the height of the Oneida PerfectionistCommunity, at their top level of membership,
enrollment, whatever you want to callit, right, there was just
(11:37):
over three hundred people. Okay,I want to say the top number was
like three hundred and seven or threehundred and eight, like just barely three
hundred people. Okay. So anyway, so they're on fourteen or thirty three
acres of land, and they decidedthat this was going to be as close
as they could get to eaton.They made sure that they had tree shaded
(11:58):
yards and lawns and gardens, andit was just this beautiful property. And
they started to build the the whatis it called the Oneida Community Mansion House.
Nice? Can I live there?Because it sounds amazing. The answer
to that question is possibly, oh, okay. So, but they began
(12:18):
to build the Oneida Community Mansion Housein eighteen sixty one. Over the next
seventeen years until eighteen seventy eight,they would build this into an eventual ninety
three thousand square foot mansion in fourdifferent phases of building. Wow, definitely
(12:39):
a mansion. Oh that's a castle. Oh my good one. Well,
I mean I'm gonna google the squarefootage of Buckingham Palace right now. Oh
you know, that's a good comparisonright there, because you think they're gonna
get close. Oh, they're noteven close. The square footage of Buckingham
(13:03):
Palace is eight hundred and thirty thousandsquare feet, okay, which makes it
one of the smallest of the Europeanpalaces. Wow. Does it looks small
to me? At all eight hundredand thirty thousand square feet? Yes?
Oh wow, I'm pretty sure that'smore than the square footage in my town.
(13:26):
I was thinking the same thing.It's very very big. Wow.
Anyway, so yeah, not evenclose to the size of Buckingham Palace.
But ninety three thousand square feet,this thing is giant, enormous. Wait
now yeah, wow, okay,but now so it's ninety three thousand yes,
(13:50):
and Buckingham Palaces eight hundred and thusthousand. Wow. But still either
way, both of those places arevery very big and big enough for a
lot of people to live. AndI'm sure it was more than one story,
so you could get everybody that livedin Oneida in their community in the
(14:16):
mansion. Yes, they all livedin this mansion as one single family.
Wow. So this community, theydid all sorts of different things to support
themselves. They they believed that inorder to get as close to Heaven on
Earth as they could, which wasthe whole goal, because once you got
(14:37):
to Heaven on Earth, then likeyou were in heaven, like it wasn't
there was nothing between you and heavenanymore. You were there. But they
had different things, but they believedthat it was all basically kind of communism
essentially. They eventually reached like Isaid, and they eventually reached a maximum
of about three hundred members at itshighest point. It was organized into forty
(15:01):
eight different departments that carried on thedifferent activities of the settlement. These activities
were overseen by twenty one committees,and everyone in the community was expected to
pull their weight to help support thefamily as a whole. The women were
expected to work alongside the men,and they even wore their hair in short
(15:24):
haircuts. Yeah, because you know, if you're working, gets all in
your face, you get all sweaty. And they wore pants. Wow,
they are trend setters in the eighteenhundred trend setters shocking well. They had
(15:46):
several different economic ventures such as farming, sawmilling, blacksmithing, and silk production.
Okay, they hit a high pointwhen they had somebody joined their community
from the outside. He come inand he said, hey, look,
I invented this super awesome thing.Check it out. They checked it out.
(16:07):
They started producing this in mass Itwas a steel trap and they sold
this steel trap to It was themain trap used by the Hudson's Bay Company
among other trappers throughout the US,to trap beavers so that they could then,
you know, skin these beavers selltheir fur, etc. Okay,
(16:32):
Well, eventually the fur trade diedout, so they're not really selling all
that many steel traps anymore. Theymoved on to other ventures. They invented
things like the lazy susan. Ohcool, I love those things I have.
I only have one in my housebecause the sun stole the daughters,
so I only have one. ButI love those things. Right, A
(16:52):
great set in the middle of yourtable, put everything on it, spinning
around. Wonderful. But they alsoinvented the mouse traps. Mmm, got
some of those in my garage tome too, Me to know. I'm
just saying. They are most famousand most well known for their Civil War
(17:15):
m This is about the time theybegin their Civil War production line. Noyas
didn't want people to be having sexall the time and everyone having babies all
willy nilly. The women didn't wantto spend most of their lives pregnant and
having kids and pop them out andeverything, so they came up. I
(17:36):
know, me neither so they cameup with a form of birth control that
wasn't really used back in the day, and it seemed to be pretty successful
for this particular community. They calledit Male continents. Basically, what it
boils down to is it's the pulloutmethod. Okay, if you if you
(18:00):
can do it right, then Iguess it works. Yeah. And in
order for the men in their community, what for the most part, yeah,
for the most part, in orderfor the men in their community to
become well versed in this, theywould take the postman a puzzle women or
just women forty and over, andthey would pare them up with the adolescent
(18:26):
boys to help the boys learn,because this learning experience would keep the chances
of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy muchlower because the woman was over forty or
she was Postman a puzzle and couldn'thave babies anymore. Right. But they
also would pair, I know,but they but they also would pair the
(18:51):
older men who had been doing thisand we're a little more experienced with this
with the younger girls or ladies,I know anything that. So guys can
be perverts, that's all it boilsdown to. Whatever will say pervert,
(19:11):
I mean it's a great idea andit's very logical. But you now,
I will say, in and amongstmy research, I did read that this
particular community was fairly focused on awoman's sexual not desire, happiness. What's
(19:32):
the word satisfaction? There we go, that's the word. They were pretty
well focused on the women being moresatisfied than the men. Wow, for
the most part, I like it. In eighteen sixty nine, the Oneida
community began a eugenics experiment. Thatis, you know, the most simple
(20:00):
way that I can explain eugenics tosomeone who doesn't really quite understand what it
is is to go back to WorldWar two, go back to Hitler,
to where he wanted a superior raceof blonde hair, blue eyed people.
Yes, everybody else he thought wasnothing and didn't need to be here.
(20:22):
They were worms below what he wanted. So that's basically what eugenics is,
in its simplest form of explanation thatI could put into words. All right,
So, but this eugenics experiment thatNoyez started, he called it stirpiculture.
Pretty sure I'm saying that right,I'm not one hundred percent positive A
(20:44):
thank you nailed it. I thinkso too, but they wanted spiritually and
physically perfect children, so people startedbeing told who to pair up with in
order to produce these superior children.Okay. They even built a new wing
onto this community mansion. They namedit the Children's House, so where after
(21:11):
the kids were born they would gostay in these nurseries and dormitories instead of
with their parents. After the kidshad reached about a year old, once
they were fully weaned and were walkingon their own, they were shipped away
from their parents and raised in thiscommunity dorm type setting. Okay. This
experiment would eventually lead to the birthof fifty eight children that were born to
(21:36):
couples that were chosen by a committeeon the basis of their spiritual qualities.
M okay. Oh, and onething I forgot to write down in my
notes that I did read about thewhole pull up method that they used for
birth control. It seemed to workpretty well. Because I want to read,
I want to say that I readthat they only had eight or somewhere
between three and twelve unwanted planned pregnanciesin the thirty two years that they were
(22:03):
this particular community. Wow, that'spretty good ratio there. I want to
say the number I read was actuallyeight, but it's somewhere between three and
twelve. Wow, just to besafe, wow, okay, okay,
yeah, yeah, yes it workedfor them. Well. This community also
held these sort of criticism sessions orcures as they would call them to where,
(22:29):
you know, and it was theentire community as a whole would attend
these things, and one person wouldget up on the stage and they would
be criticized by everybody for whatever itwas that they had done wrong, so
they roasted them basically. Yeah,okay, I'm sure it was pretty nerve
wracking for the person up on stage. Yeah, but I also feel like
(22:52):
it was probably and I as doother people that I read, it's probably
pretty therapeutic because people were able toget out their feelings of guilt, They
were able to get out their feelingsof aggression towards these other people without it
being a fight or you know,turning physical or anything like that. Okay,
(23:14):
okay, I mean it sounds likethey got some really good ideas going
on and seemed to be working exactly. And as these these roast sessions would
get bigger and larger and the communitygrew, they started to hold them in
front of a committee instead of thewhole community. Like the whole community community
(23:34):
I believe could still go. Theyjust weren't part of the roasting. It
was just this this board of committeemembers, Okay, that would do the
roasting. Okay. Oh, bythe way, Noyez was head of that
too, of course, Yeah,of course, I mean why wouldn't he
be if he started all this andrun all this. Of course he would
(23:57):
be in everything. Yeah. Absolutely. But this way of shaming the people
in their community, it only enforcedthe social control that NOI has had over
all these people. And they sawit as a and it's been seen as
a highly as being highly successful forpromoting community cohesion. Sounds like it.
(24:25):
Yeah, I gave him that.Yeah. Well, because of the children's
house practices where kids were not raisedby their parents, they were raised by
you know a handful of people thatran the nurseries and the dormitories and stuff.
The next generation of the Oneida perfectionistcommunity they started to want the romantic
(24:45):
love, the courtship, the monogamousmarriages, and thus began the downfall of
the Oneida community. Dounds like it. In June of eighteen seventy nine,
Noyas fled to Canada because he wasafraid of criminal charges being brought against him
(25:06):
for sex related crimes. The followingmonth, in August of eighteen seventy nine,
the members began to pair off intomonogamous marriages and basically just ended the
whole complex marriages scenario they had goingon. Okay, the Oneida Perfectionist community
(25:27):
was a successful Ish community for thirtytwo years. I read that it was
actually described as like the singular successfuleugenics experiment as well. Okay, but
for thirty two years they were considereda successful Ish community. In January of
(25:51):
eighteen eighty one, they turned themselvesinto a manufacturing corporation. They became Oneida
Company Limited, which is now knownsimply as Oneida Limited, and they focused
on the production of silverware pretty muchbasically exclusively. At that time, when
(26:11):
they turned themselves into this company,their holdings were valued at over six hundred
thousand dollars. Wow, which tome is a lot of dollars. But
when you translate that from eighteen eightydollars to twenty twenty three dollars, that
would be about eighteen million dollars today. That's a lot. That's a lot.
(26:38):
I mean even just the thousands ofdollars is a yet yeah wow.
Yeah. Now when they switched allthis, he had already gone, right,
Yes, he was already gone.So they just took it upon themselves
to continue on because they were kindof doing the silverware ish anyway. I'm
(27:03):
pretty sure I understand it correctly,but I'm not one hundred percent positive.
I think the way that worked outis when he ran off to Canada,
he left his son in charge.His son was going to be the new
head guru guy, and his sonwas like, but Dad, I don't
believe in all this crazy crap.So here's what we're gonna do. Okay,
community people, Lets I'll just dowhat we want to do. Let's
(27:26):
turn this into a company. Let'smake some profit for it. Yay capitalism,
even though that's what we originally foundedthis community to be against. But
you know, let's do this,okay, all right? Yeah yeah.
So in nineteen fourteen, they addeda lounge to the community mansion house that
they could use as a meeting spaceand for accommodations for their salesmen and managers.
(27:49):
And in nineteen eighty seven they startedto make even more changes to the
community house. They started renovations tomake private apartments, museum, a museum,
and eight bed and breakfast rooms ortourists. This house has been inhabited
by someone continuously since it was firstbuilt in eighteen what sixties sixty one?
(28:15):
Eighteen sixty one is when I saidit they started building it. So eighteen
sixty one eighteen sixty two. Somebodyhas lived in this house since then.
Wow, And it's a bed andbreakfast and a bed and breakfast? Is
it like Grandma's though I don't haveno idea being neither. I have no
idea, but yeah, that's mycase. That's what I got for you
(28:37):
this week. I told you itwas weird and like nothing we have ever
done before. And I had noidea that the silverware in my kitchen you
freaking I have purved silverwareware. Yeah. I don't think that that's what I
have, But you have purved silverware, Yeah I do. I'm glad that
(29:00):
you did this because I really hadno idea either me neither. Wow,
it's really cool. I really learneda lot today. So yeah, that's
so we don't know. Once,he often moved, we have no idea
when he passed away. I didread when he passed away. I want
(29:25):
to write it was just a coupleof years after he left. Okay,
it wasn't long. And when heleft, he left by self. He
need to leave with one of histhree hundred wives or you know anything.
I'm I'm not one hundred percent sureon that. I just read that he
fled to Canada to avoid any chargesbeing brought against him. Yeah, okay,
it didn't say if he took anybodywith him or not. Okay,
(29:48):
uh uh, well, what doyou know? Yeah, And his whole
free love concept came from so hebefore he got married to his wife,
his first wife, his legal wife, he met a lady, fell in
love with her, and then Ithink he went off to college and then
(30:10):
she married somebody else and he waslike, oh, but I still love
you, and she's like, dude, let me alone. I'm married,
and he was like, oh no, but we're spiritually married. We're married
in the spiritual sense, so youwill always be my wife. And then
he met his wife and got marriedto her, and then he had the
hots for some other lady and thenthat's when he was like, oh,
free love, let's be hippies.Before hippie is a word. Exactly.
(30:33):
I just want to sleep with everybody, so free love to everybody. And
I want to say I read onlyin one of my things that I read
that he and his wife, andhis brothers and their wives, or his
sisters and their husbands, or theoriginal founders of the Putney group. Hm.
(30:57):
Well it was a family affair fromthe beginning. Evidently, Yeah,
sounds like it. That's crazy,crazy, crazy, And I will never
be able to pass up the silverwareand maybe not giggle a little bit saying,
(31:18):
especially when you see see PERV silverwarenow exactly, Wow, that's really
crazy. So, husband, whenyou listen to this, you can think
my mother that I now call itPERV silverware. It is all her faults.
That's exactly what it is, PERVsilverware. That's where it came from
the burbs. Well, thank youvery much for sharing. That was very
(31:41):
informative and something that I absolutely didnot know. But now I know.
It's one of those little things that'sgoing to set in the back of my
brain until I get a chance touse it. It's I'm gonna pass this
along. Awesome. I think youshould I have been telling the husband I
(32:01):
told my mother in law, myfather in law. I told my daughter
in law because she was over todayand I was like, oh my gosh,
we're gonna talk about a freaking sexcult side hustle that lives in my
kitchen. Yeah. Yeah, absolutelycrazy. That's great. That is greatness,
(32:21):
and I love it. I amabout it, and I'm here for
it. And I don't think Iown any And well, just wait till
Christmas to do I want to do? I just wait till Christmas. Wait
till Christmas. I'll make sure everybodyhas some some PERV silverware and their gifts
at Christmas. Well, you knowwhat, we can't give them PERV silverware.
(32:44):
We have to give them one pieceof it. That way, everybody
has to get together to make aset. Yeah duh, the only way
to keep it pervy. You geta spoon to stir your coffee with.
Oh, thank you very much,appreciate. Next, old sister gets a
knife to spread the peanut, butterand jelly on her kids sandwiches with.
(33:05):
Okay, okay, A single sister, my recently single sister gets a fork
to eat her spaghetti with. Yeahyeah, or comb her hair with orp
It's fine. Yes, we coulddo that. She would. She would
really would. That's funny. That'sa sad part about it. She really
(33:28):
would. I love her though.She's awesome, she's so cool. But
yeah, that's that's what I gotfor you this week. I thought it
was insane and it lived in myhead rent free, and so now it
can live in all of your head'srent free. To go tell somebody because
this is crazy. Yeah, now, no knew this. When when you're
at somebody's house, you're gonna noticethey're silverware. You're gonna notice what kind
(33:52):
of silverware they have. You're gonnabe looking. They're gonna be going,
what are you doing? Well?You know, oh you your silverware actually
started. By the way, mymother in law has three sets of one
and eye to silver aware. Ohshe said she has two for sure,
she thinks she has three. WellI'm pretty sure I don't have any,
(34:14):
but I'm so curious. I'm gonnahave to go check. So thank you
for sharing, and I guess untilnext time, guys, we'll talk to
you later, Okay, bye bye,
Welcome to Crime on My Coffee.This podcast contains graphic descriptions and adult content
mature audiences only. Please Hi,y'all, and welcome to Crime with My
(00:31):
Coffee. I'm your fabulous hostess withthe Mostess, June, and I'm Suzanne.
We're gonna tell you some stories you'veheard, some of you haven't,
and some you'll wish you hadn't,all with a Texas twang. Well,
welcome back, guys, Welcome back, glad you could join us, absolutely,
and if you're here for the firsttime, go back and pick one
(00:53):
to listen to. We got plentyto choose from, lots of different kinds
of stories, and I'm sure you'llfind one you're gonna enjoy hopefully. Yes,
yes, Well, before we getstarted today, I would like to
give out my sincerest of apologies toall of you listeners. You were totally
(01:15):
getting this late. It's one hundredpercent my fault. The husband and I
went out of town at the endof last week. We left Friday Saturday.
We were supposed to stop by hisparents on our way home and then
come home. It's not quite sorry, but I didn't go quite as planned.
(01:36):
Didn't go quite as planned. Wegot about halfway to his parents' house
and our truck started overheating and actingup, so we pulled over let it
cool off, and then realized itwas dripping transmission fluid. So we got
the truck to his parents' house luckily, and then it just started dumping transmission
(01:57):
fluid everywhere. So it took usa couple of days at his parents' house
to be able to get our truckback to our town to get it to
our mechanic for them to look atit. And we didn't get home until
we were supposed to record two daysago, three days ago at this point,
yeah, and you were not home. No, I wasn't home.
(02:21):
And because it was just supposed tobe like a one night, two day
trip, I didn't take any ofmy recording stuff to record. No,
sorry, guys, I promise weare going to get this recorded tonight.
I am going to get it editedand I will get it out to you
as soon as it's done being edited, I swear, which because you are
the bomb, am I be alate night, but you'll get nice,
(02:46):
very nice. So with that beingsaid, what's in your mug? Well,
am my mug because it's still reallyreally hot, and we are doing
this at a different time. Ijust, you know, hadn't been home
from work very long. I actuallyhave a mocha frappuccino from Starbucks. It's
(03:10):
so hot, it's so hot.But whether or not the frappuccino, right,
oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, Butit's it's really good. I like
it. I like it hot,but I like it frappacciode, you know.
So, And what's in your mug. It's been a heck of a
weekend. It's been a heck ofa start to the week. And so
(03:35):
I'm drinking army of dark chocolate withDunkin Donuts extra extra creamer in it because
I needed the comfort. This isdefinitely something that you needed. I get
it for sure. And I don'tknow whether to cry or laugh about the
truck. You know, I wouldwait till you get the diagnostics back on
it, for sure, and thendecide whether you're gonna cry or laugh.
(04:00):
Yeah, fingers crossed, fingers crossed. But all right, Well, I
have something for us today. Nice, I'm ready. Are you ready for
it? It's not an episode thatwe normally would do. There there is
no murder, Okay, I'm aboutit and I'm ready, then there's no
(04:20):
murder. Okay. Well, beforebefore we get started, let me ask
you a question. Okay, you'veheard of Oneida. You know I have
the silver Ware company. Do youhappen to know if that's what you have
in your kitchen right now? Idon't know. I'm going to say no,
(04:43):
Okay, Well, I have anIda in my kitchen right now,
one of their much cheaper sets,but an Oneida set nonetheless? Okay,
Okay, I don't Yeah, I'mpretty sure min is not. But well,
did you have to double check?Maybe? Did you? Did you
know that the Oneida Sila where startedout as a side hustle for a sex
(05:04):
cult, uh, back in theeighteen hundreds. No, and I don't
even see how that correlates with eachother. But well today I'm going to
tell you. Okay, okay,all right, then I'm ready. I'm
(05:26):
definitely that's weird. That's so weird, I know, and it gets even
weirder the more you learn about it. It's crazy, okay, Okay.
Well. September third, eighteen eleven, Yes, eighteen eleven. John Humphrey
Noyez was born in Battleboro, Vermont. He was the son of a well
(05:49):
to do New England businessman who endedup serving in the US House of Representatives.
The dad did not John Humphrey Noyas. Okay. He was also the
cousin of the nineteenth president Rutherford B. Hayes. Oh okay, all right,
now, he was a redheaded introvertby all accounts. In eighteen thirty
(06:12):
he graduated from Dartmouth College. Hisoriginal plan for his life was to pursue
some sort of career down the lawpath. Okay, But he only studied
law for about a year before hismother, who was this super religious lady,
noticed that pretty much basically her sonwas just like way big mad because
(06:39):
he didn't have a way to dealwith his sexual frustrations or anything. So
she sent her virginal son to atent revival in eighteen thirty one. At
this tent revival, he got allswept up in the religious fervor of evangelist
Charles Finney and decided to all throughhis course and become a minister instead.
(07:03):
Oh okay, so he enrolls atAndover Theological Seminary in Massachusetts. He did
end up later transferring to Yale.While he was at Yale, he finally
decided he found what he was goingto zero in on what his personal beliefs
(07:24):
were, Okay, and he proclaimedhimself a perfectionist. He was a total
hardcore believer in perfectionism. Okay,what is that you ask? That is
the idea that it is possible foran individual to become free of sin in
(07:46):
this life through religious conversion and willpower. He believed that God could not expect
the impossible from his subjects, andso therefore the perfection that he demanded was
not only attainable, but it couldbe super easily accomplished by an inner sense
(08:07):
of salvation. Okay, not whatI know of as a perfectionist, not
how we use that word today.For sure, it's definitely not. It's
definitely not. He also was convincedthat the rapture had already occurred, that
(08:28):
Jesus Christ had already come back toearth. This had happened in the year
seventy a d. Saints and sinnershave been living separately for generations upon generations
upon generations. Because he was prettysold on the idea that Christ was going
to come back within one generation ofhis death, so it had to be
by seventy a D. That's whenit happened. Okay. Yeah, so
(08:50):
now sin, you no longer haveto fear sin. It's fine, okay.
In eighteen thirty six, he organizeda group of Bible Communists, as
they called themselves, in Putney,Vermont. In eighteen thirty seven, he
wrote this letter that he became knownfor, the battle Axe Letter, where
(09:15):
he advocated for free love. Hewas the original hippie, That's what I
was just fixing to say. Hecreated the Six Days, yes, but
he created them in the eighteen forties. It's fine, eman. Yeah.
See, he thought that since Christtaught that there would be no marriage in
(09:39):
heaven, there's not really a placefor monogamous marriage on earth either. Really,
that was pretty much what this letter, this battle Axe Letter says.
Okay, So in eighteen forty six, the Putney group adopted the principle of
complex marriage, which means that allof his followers were married to each other,
(10:05):
all the men were married to allof the women, and all of
the women were married to all ofthe men. Instead of a simple marriage,
which is just a monogamous marriage.Okay, okay. They were encouraged
to sleep with anyone they wanted towithin their group and just a year later,
in eighteen forty seven, they wererun out of Putney because of these
(10:28):
radical practices. Right Noyas had beenarrested for adultery and he ended up jumping
bail on this charge and fleeing thearea. So his family and his followers
they all went west. They wentto Oneida, New York, and in
eighteen forty eight they founded a newgroup, the Oneida Perfectionists Community. Okay,
(10:52):
here they lived on I read twodifferent things. I read fourteen acres
and I read thirty three acres.But either way, either way, that's
a lot of land I'm looking for, you know, ten acres and I'd
be happy, Oh may too,I'd be more than happy. But you
know, right, so, yeah, you know, fourteen acres. How
(11:15):
many ways in his group do weknow? I don't know exactly how many
were in his group when they migratedto Oneida, but I do know that
at the height of the Oneida PerfectionistCommunity, at their top level of membership,
enrollment, whatever you want to callit, right, there was just
(11:37):
over three hundred people. Okay,I want to say the top number was
like three hundred and seven or threehundred and eight, like just barely three
hundred people. Okay. So anyway, so they're on fourteen or thirty three
acres of land, and they decidedthat this was going to be as close
as they could get to eaton.They made sure that they had tree shaded
(11:58):
yards and lawns and gardens, andit was just this beautiful property. And
they started to build the the whatis it called the Oneida Community Mansion House.
Nice? Can I live there?Because it sounds amazing. The answer
to that question is possibly, oh, okay. So, but they began
(12:18):
to build the Oneida Community Mansion Housein eighteen sixty one. Over the next
seventeen years until eighteen seventy eight,they would build this into an eventual ninety
three thousand square foot mansion in fourdifferent phases of building. Wow, definitely
(12:39):
a mansion. Oh that's a castle. Oh my good one. Well,
I mean I'm gonna google the squarefootage of Buckingham Palace right now. Oh
you know, that's a good comparisonright there, because you think they're gonna
get close. Oh, they're noteven close. The square footage of Buckingham
(13:03):
Palace is eight hundred and thirty thousandsquare feet, okay, which makes it
one of the smallest of the Europeanpalaces. Wow. Does it looks small
to me? At all eight hundredand thirty thousand square feet? Yes?
Oh wow, I'm pretty sure that'smore than the square footage in my town.
(13:26):
I was thinking the same thing.It's very very big. Wow.
Anyway, so yeah, not evenclose to the size of Buckingham Palace.
But ninety three thousand square feet,this thing is giant, enormous. Wait
now yeah, wow, okay,but now so it's ninety three thousand yes,
(13:50):
and Buckingham Palaces eight hundred and thusthousand. Wow. But still either
way, both of those places arevery very big and big enough for a
lot of people to live. AndI'm sure it was more than one story,
so you could get everybody that livedin Oneida in their community in the
(14:16):
mansion. Yes, they all livedin this mansion as one single family.
Wow. So this community, theydid all sorts of different things to support
themselves. They they believed that inorder to get as close to Heaven on
Earth as they could, which wasthe whole goal, because once you got
(14:37):
to Heaven on Earth, then likeyou were in heaven, like it wasn't
there was nothing between you and heavenanymore. You were there. But they
had different things, but they believedthat it was all basically kind of communism
essentially. They eventually reached like Isaid, and they eventually reached a maximum
of about three hundred members at itshighest point. It was organized into forty
(15:01):
eight different departments that carried on thedifferent activities of the settlement. These activities
were overseen by twenty one committees,and everyone in the community was expected to
pull their weight to help support thefamily as a whole. The women were
expected to work alongside the men,and they even wore their hair in short
(15:24):
haircuts. Yeah, because you know, if you're working, gets all in
your face, you get all sweaty. And they wore pants. Wow,
they are trend setters in the eighteenhundred trend setters shocking well. They had
(15:46):
several different economic ventures such as farming, sawmilling, blacksmithing, and silk production.
Okay, they hit a high pointwhen they had somebody joined their community
from the outside. He come inand he said, hey, look,
I invented this super awesome thing.Check it out. They checked it out.
(16:07):
They started producing this in mass Itwas a steel trap and they sold
this steel trap to It was themain trap used by the Hudson's Bay Company
among other trappers throughout the US,to trap beavers so that they could then,
you know, skin these beavers selltheir fur, etc. Okay,
(16:32):
Well, eventually the fur trade diedout, so they're not really selling all
that many steel traps anymore. Theymoved on to other ventures. They invented
things like the lazy susan. Ohcool, I love those things I have.
I only have one in my housebecause the sun stole the daughters,
so I only have one. ButI love those things. Right, A
(16:52):
great set in the middle of yourtable, put everything on it, spinning
around. Wonderful. But they alsoinvented the mouse traps. Mmm, got
some of those in my garage tome too, Me to know. I'm
just saying. They are most famousand most well known for their Civil War
(17:15):
m This is about the time theybegin their Civil War production line. Noyas
didn't want people to be having sexall the time and everyone having babies all
willy nilly. The women didn't wantto spend most of their lives pregnant and
having kids and pop them out andeverything, so they came up. I
(17:36):
know, me neither so they cameup with a form of birth control that
wasn't really used back in the day, and it seemed to be pretty successful
for this particular community. They calledit Male continents. Basically, what it
boils down to is it's the pulloutmethod. Okay, if you if you
(18:00):
can do it right, then Iguess it works. Yeah. And in
order for the men in their community, what for the most part, yeah,
for the most part, in orderfor the men in their community to
become well versed in this, theywould take the postman a puzzle women or
just women forty and over, andthey would pare them up with the adolescent
(18:26):
boys to help the boys learn,because this learning experience would keep the chances
of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy muchlower because the woman was over forty or
she was Postman a puzzle and couldn'thave babies anymore. Right. But they
also would pair, I know,but they but they also would pair the
(18:51):
older men who had been doing thisand we're a little more experienced with this
with the younger girls or ladies,I know anything that. So guys can
be perverts, that's all it boilsdown to. Whatever will say pervert,
(19:11):
I mean it's a great idea andit's very logical. But you now,
I will say, in and amongstmy research, I did read that this
particular community was fairly focused on awoman's sexual not desire, happiness. What's
(19:32):
the word satisfaction? There we go, that's the word. They were pretty
well focused on the women being moresatisfied than the men. Wow, for
the most part, I like it. In eighteen sixty nine, the Oneida
community began a eugenics experiment. Thatis, you know, the most simple
(20:00):
way that I can explain eugenics tosomeone who doesn't really quite understand what it
is is to go back to WorldWar two, go back to Hitler,
to where he wanted a superior raceof blonde hair, blue eyed people.
Yes, everybody else he thought wasnothing and didn't need to be here.
(20:22):
They were worms below what he wanted. So that's basically what eugenics is,
in its simplest form of explanation thatI could put into words. All right,
So, but this eugenics experiment thatNoyez started, he called it stirpiculture.
Pretty sure I'm saying that right,I'm not one hundred percent positive A
(20:44):
thank you nailed it. I thinkso too, but they wanted spiritually and
physically perfect children, so people startedbeing told who to pair up with in
order to produce these superior children.Okay. They even built a new wing
onto this community mansion. They namedit the Children's House, so where after
(21:11):
the kids were born they would gostay in these nurseries and dormitories instead of
with their parents. After the kidshad reached about a year old, once
they were fully weaned and were walkingon their own, they were shipped away
from their parents and raised in thiscommunity dorm type setting. Okay. This
experiment would eventually lead to the birthof fifty eight children that were born to
(21:36):
couples that were chosen by a committeeon the basis of their spiritual qualities.
M okay. Oh, and onething I forgot to write down in my
notes that I did read about thewhole pull up method that they used for
birth control. It seemed to workpretty well. Because I want to read,
I want to say that I readthat they only had eight or somewhere
between three and twelve unwanted planned pregnanciesin the thirty two years that they were
(22:03):
this particular community. Wow, that'spretty good ratio there. I want to
say the number I read was actuallyeight, but it's somewhere between three and
twelve. Wow, just to besafe, wow, okay, okay,
yeah, yeah, yes it workedfor them. Well. This community also
held these sort of criticism sessions orcures as they would call them to where,
(22:29):
you know, and it was theentire community as a whole would attend
these things, and one person wouldget up on the stage and they would
be criticized by everybody for whatever itwas that they had done wrong, so
they roasted them basically. Yeah,okay, I'm sure it was pretty nerve
wracking for the person up on stage. Yeah, but I also feel like
(22:52):
it was probably and I as doother people that I read, it's probably
pretty therapeutic because people were able toget out their feelings of guilt, They
were able to get out their feelingsof aggression towards these other people without it
being a fight or you know,turning physical or anything like that. Okay,
(23:14):
okay, I mean it sounds likethey got some really good ideas going
on and seemed to be working exactly. And as these these roast sessions would
get bigger and larger and the communitygrew, they started to hold them in
front of a committee instead of thewhole community. Like the whole community community
(23:34):
I believe could still go. Theyjust weren't part of the roasting. It
was just this this board of committeemembers, Okay, that would do the
roasting. Okay. Oh, bythe way, Noyez was head of that
too, of course, Yeah,of course, I mean why wouldn't he
be if he started all this andrun all this. Of course he would
(23:57):
be in everything. Yeah. Absolutely. But this way of shaming the people
in their community, it only enforcedthe social control that NOI has had over
all these people. And they sawit as a and it's been seen as
a highly as being highly successful forpromoting community cohesion. Sounds like it.
(24:25):
Yeah, I gave him that.Yeah. Well, because of the children's
house practices where kids were not raisedby their parents, they were raised by
you know a handful of people thatran the nurseries and the dormitories and stuff.
The next generation of the Oneida perfectionistcommunity they started to want the romantic
(24:45):
love, the courtship, the monogamousmarriages, and thus began the downfall of
the Oneida community. Dounds like it. In June of eighteen seventy nine,
Noyas fled to Canada because he wasafraid of criminal charges being brought against him
(25:06):
for sex related crimes. The followingmonth, in August of eighteen seventy nine,
the members began to pair off intomonogamous marriages and basically just ended the
whole complex marriages scenario they had goingon. Okay, the Oneida Perfectionist community
(25:27):
was a successful Ish community for thirtytwo years. I read that it was
actually described as like the singular successfuleugenics experiment as well. Okay, but
for thirty two years they were considereda successful Ish community. In January of
(25:51):
eighteen eighty one, they turned themselvesinto a manufacturing corporation. They became Oneida
Company Limited, which is now knownsimply as Oneida Limited, and they focused
on the production of silverware pretty muchbasically exclusively. At that time, when
(26:11):
they turned themselves into this company,their holdings were valued at over six hundred
thousand dollars. Wow, which tome is a lot of dollars. But
when you translate that from eighteen eightydollars to twenty twenty three dollars, that
would be about eighteen million dollars today. That's a lot. That's a lot.
(26:38):
I mean even just the thousands ofdollars is a yet yeah wow.
Yeah. Now when they switched allthis, he had already gone, right,
Yes, he was already gone.So they just took it upon themselves
to continue on because they were kindof doing the silverware ish anyway. I'm
(27:03):
pretty sure I understand it correctly,but I'm not one hundred percent positive.
I think the way that worked outis when he ran off to Canada,
he left his son in charge.His son was going to be the new
head guru guy, and his sonwas like, but Dad, I don't
believe in all this crazy crap.So here's what we're gonna do. Okay,
community people, Lets I'll just dowhat we want to do. Let's
(27:26):
turn this into a company. Let'smake some profit for it. Yay capitalism,
even though that's what we originally foundedthis community to be against. But
you know, let's do this,okay, all right? Yeah yeah.
So in nineteen fourteen, they addeda lounge to the community mansion house that
they could use as a meeting spaceand for accommodations for their salesmen and managers.
(27:49):
And in nineteen eighty seven they startedto make even more changes to the
community house. They started renovations tomake private apartments, museum, a museum,
and eight bed and breakfast rooms ortourists. This house has been inhabited
by someone continuously since it was firstbuilt in eighteen what sixties sixty one?
(28:15):
Eighteen sixty one is when I saidit they started building it. So eighteen
sixty one eighteen sixty two. Somebodyhas lived in this house since then.
Wow, And it's a bed andbreakfast and a bed and breakfast? Is
it like Grandma's though I don't haveno idea being neither. I have no
idea, but yeah, that's mycase. That's what I got for you
(28:37):
this week. I told you itwas weird and like nothing we have ever
done before. And I had noidea that the silverware in my kitchen you
freaking I have purved silverwareware. Yeah. I don't think that that's what I
have, But you have purved silverware, Yeah I do. I'm glad that
(29:00):
you did this because I really hadno idea either me neither. Wow,
it's really cool. I really learneda lot today. So yeah, that's
so we don't know. Once,he often moved, we have no idea
when he passed away. I didread when he passed away. I want
(29:25):
to write it was just a coupleof years after he left. Okay,
it wasn't long. And when heleft, he left by self. He
need to leave with one of histhree hundred wives or you know anything.
I'm I'm not one hundred percent sureon that. I just read that he
fled to Canada to avoid any chargesbeing brought against him. Yeah, okay,
it didn't say if he took anybodywith him or not. Okay,
(29:48):
uh uh, well, what doyou know? Yeah, And his whole
free love concept came from so hebefore he got married to his wife,
his first wife, his legal wife, he met a lady, fell in
love with her, and then Ithink he went off to college and then
(30:10):
she married somebody else and he waslike, oh, but I still love
you, and she's like, dude, let me alone. I'm married,
and he was like, oh no, but we're spiritually married. We're married
in the spiritual sense, so youwill always be my wife. And then
he met his wife and got marriedto her, and then he had the
hots for some other lady and thenthat's when he was like, oh,
free love, let's be hippies.Before hippie is a word. Exactly.
(30:33):
I just want to sleep with everybody, so free love to everybody. And
I want to say I read onlyin one of my things that I read
that he and his wife, andhis brothers and their wives, or his
sisters and their husbands, or theoriginal founders of the Putney group. Hm.
(30:57):
Well it was a family affair fromthe beginning. Evidently, Yeah,
sounds like it. That's crazy,crazy, crazy, And I will never
be able to pass up the silverwareand maybe not giggle a little bit saying,
(31:18):
especially when you see see PERV silverwarenow exactly, Wow, that's really
crazy. So, husband, whenyou listen to this, you can think
my mother that I now call itPERV silverware. It is all her faults.
That's exactly what it is, PERVsilverware. That's where it came from
the burbs. Well, thank youvery much for sharing. That was very
(31:41):
informative and something that I absolutely didnot know. But now I know.
It's one of those little things that'sgoing to set in the back of my
brain until I get a chance touse it. It's I'm gonna pass this
along. Awesome. I think youshould I have been telling the husband I
(32:01):
told my mother in law, myfather in law. I told my daughter
in law because she was over todayand I was like, oh my gosh,
we're gonna talk about a freaking sexcult side hustle that lives in my
kitchen. Yeah. Yeah, absolutelycrazy. That's great. That is greatness,
(32:21):
and I love it. I amabout it, and I'm here for
it. And I don't think Iown any And well, just wait till
Christmas to do I want to do? I just wait till Christmas. Wait
till Christmas. I'll make sure everybodyhas some some PERV silverware and their gifts
at Christmas. Well, you knowwhat, we can't give them PERV silverware.
(32:44):
We have to give them one pieceof it. That way, everybody
has to get together to make aset. Yeah duh, the only way
to keep it pervy. You geta spoon to stir your coffee with.
Oh, thank you very much,appreciate. Next, old sister gets a
knife to spread the peanut, butterand jelly on her kids sandwiches with.
(33:05):
Okay, okay, A single sister, my recently single sister gets a fork
to eat her spaghetti with. Yeahyeah, or comb her hair with orp
It's fine. Yes, we coulddo that. She would. She would
really would. That's funny. That'sa sad part about it. She really
(33:28):
would. I love her though.She's awesome, she's so cool. But
yeah, that's that's what I gotfor you this week. I thought it
was insane and it lived in myhead rent free, and so now it
can live in all of your head'srent free. To go tell somebody because
this is crazy. Yeah, now, no knew this. When when you're
at somebody's house, you're gonna noticethey're silverware. You're gonna notice what kind
(33:52):
of silverware they have. You're gonnabe looking. They're gonna be going,
what are you doing? Well?You know, oh you your silverware actually
started. By the way, mymother in law has three sets of one
and eye to silver aware. Ohshe said she has two for sure,
she thinks she has three. WellI'm pretty sure I don't have any,
(34:14):
but I'm so curious. I'm gonnahave to go check. So thank you
for sharing, and I guess untilnext time, guys, we'll talk to
you later, Okay, bye bye,
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