2023 Year End Lists

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to crime Pedia podcast. Iam your host this week I am Cherry
and with me as always is myco host, they Lovely Morgan. Hello,
how are you too? Hello,Yes, I'm well, thank you.
So this as usually we do bringyou true crime cases every week,
usually unsolved cases. However, thisweekend I've been away, so we have

(00:25):
not been recording, but we wantedto give you an episode anyway, because
I know what it's like when yourpodcast that you always listen to doesn't have
an episode week. It drives menuts. How dare they take a break
when I'm trying to listen. It'sannoying, especially especially when we do have
a break coming up here in afew weeks. So of course that's right,
Yeah, we've got Christmas break comingup. So we wanted to bring

(00:47):
you an episode nonetheless, and wewanted it to still be true crime related.
So what we're going to do isthis week we're going to talk to
you about some of the top thingsin twenty twenty three that we can recommend
to you for twenty twenty four.Now, if you don't if you are
a listener and you enjoy immersing yourselfin the world of true crime or you
know someone that is some of thesewill be quite good for you for Christmas

(01:08):
presents, So you might help youout a little bit for this year for
Christmas. So first of all,I'm going to talk to you about things
to do. So this year Iwent to see a stage show that was
hosted by the lovely David Swindle,who's a Scottish detective who caught Peter Tobin.
Is a very good friend of ours, and I went to see him

(01:30):
at the theater in his traveling theatershow, which is now he's done over
one hundred shows now on his own, just up on stage talking about the
cases that he's been a part of, talking about other cases, and it's
a fully immersive thing. It's justone man on stage. He does have
screens up so you've got like picturesyou can see in videos you can watch

(01:53):
with him, and he talks youthrough things, but he basically talks you
through cases that he's worked on fromstart to finish. He teached. He
tells you how they work together tocatch the person, how they started piecing
together evidence, especially in the PeterTobin case, very clever, how they
started to piece different piece of evidencetogether to build up this case to then
actually have enough to take it toarrest him. So that's really good.

(02:16):
He's done over one hundred shows we'vethere's still lots and lots of shows coming
up. He's got I think he'sgoing through until like May next year.
He's all over the place. He'sbeen in Scotland, he's been in Ireland.
He's been down south in Devon,he's been up north in Newcastle,
he's been everywhere, London, everywhere. And it's well worth it. I

(02:36):
highly recommend it. It's absolutely brilliant, really good. I feel like every
time I go on Instagram he issomewhere New for sure. Yes he is.
Yeah he is. He's always somewhereNew. I don't know how he
does it. I really don't knowhow he does it. He's done such
a good job. Yeah, wellhe's not the only one we have.
One of our other friends is aboutyeah. Takes down on to stage.

(03:00):
Yeah yeah. Colin Sutton's got hisMan Hunter tour and he's going to theaters
all over the country. He's obviouslyformer detective and former a senior investigating officer.
He caught Levi Bellfield, amongst othernasty individuals. Highly highly skilled and
highly lovely, very very lovely man. And he's going to do the same

(03:22):
thing. He's going to be talkingyou through cases, talking to you through
people that's names you'll recognize. Theremight be some people's name that you don't
recognize that he's going to talk toyou about. If you've ever seen his
TV program Manhunter, it's on SkyI think it's on Sky, and that
shows you some of the cases thathe's worked on. They will talk you
through how amongst other detectives, howthey piece things together to solve those cases

(03:46):
or some that didn't get solved,you know, because we know that not
every single case gets solved, butit is always nice to when you watch
a program like that, to havea resolution at the end, to know
that the bad person got caught andthe family got justice. Sadly, we
know that isn't always the case.But yes, that's two of our two
of our friends getting on the roadand doing tours. Also Sally and John

(04:08):
from True Crime Investigators UK. Theyare both doing tours now and they are
Yeah, they're both so. Sallyand John have got a podcast, True
Crime Investigators UK, and they areboth former detectives. But Sally was injured
in the job and she then wenton to be a CPS lawyer. So
she is a very very clever woman, very clever, and she's always a

(04:32):
great source for me if I've gotquestions about things. And they their latest
series podcast series is brilliant. Ilistened to it. I binge the whole
lot. It's like three or fourepisodes of the same story, but it's
they teach, They tell you fromstart to finish, and it's excellent.
You know that those two know exactlywhat they're doing. And they are now

(04:53):
doing a tour around the country andthey're going to talking about cases that they've
worked on and sort of like policeprocedure and how things get done. And
I think that's always really interesting toget behind the scenes from former police officers.
So if you can catch them,I haven't got the dates to hand,
but if you just google it,I'm sure you'll find it. But
they're both highly recommended to listen to. I love listening to those two.

(05:14):
It's crazy thinking about how these typesof things, these detectives and investigators,
how they can translate their work intoa stage show. Yeah, you wouldn't
think it would work, but itdoes. Oh. It really does.
Yeah, it does. I meanI saw I went to see David's and
it's like a two and a halfhour show. It's like I think it's

(05:34):
like, yeah, I think it'slike a hunt. Like it's an hour
and ten minutes, then you havea break, and then like another hour
and ten minutes. It's a lot. And he talks about some really well
known serial killers. He talks aboutRed and Fred and Rose West. He
talks about just goes through everything andhow they were caught and things, the

(05:56):
personality and the psychology of those kindsof people and the behavior and how they
get away with, you know,Dennis Nielsen, how they get away with
being in plain sight and people notrealizing. I mean, you think Dennis
Nilsen, everyone said what nice guyhe was when he was sort of sleeping
with bodies and murdering people, sleepingwith them and then trying to flush them
down the toilet and stuff. Yetpeople thought he was a lovely guy.

(06:19):
What was the most interesting thing thatyou learned from David's show? Do you
know? Honestly, I think themost interesting thing for me is the behind
the scenes is how it affects thepolice person. I mean, you kind
of forget that they are police,but they are people. They are fathers,

(06:42):
they are mothers, you know,they are human beings. And it
kind of like he was saying aboutthat when there's children involved, and you,
naturally we're the same, naturally don'tlike to talk about cases where there's
kids involved. But they have tosee, you know, they have to
see the brutality. They have tosee it with their own eyes. And
once you see things like that,you can't unsee them. And it's very
interesting to me how it affects themas people because you kind of get you

(07:08):
kind of feel like they're infallible.They're the police, they're used to this,
that's their job, that's what theydo. You don't hear much about
the downside to it for them personally. And it was very interesting when he
talked about how it has affected andhow it's made him the way he is
and how he is cautious about certainthings. And it's true. I mean,
I'm not a policewoman, but sincedoing this job with you, there

(07:31):
are certain things that I make sureI do and make sure I don't do,
and there are certain things that youknow, there's certain things that have
affected me in cases that we've coveredand things that we've looked at, and
it's I think that's the thing Ilearned most is that, you know,
you forget the fact that they areactually people. The police officer are actually

(07:53):
people doing a job. It's justa job. You know, it's a
very important job, but it istheir job, and it takes over it
takes over their lives. That's veryinteresting aspect of it. And I wonder
if Colin will have some kind ofaspect of that within his show too.
Oh, I'm sure it will.I'm sure. Yeah. So, since

(08:18):
we're doing this, let me askyou this, what do you think was
the biggest true crime story of twentytwenty three? Oh? I think,
without a doubt it's going to haveto be the Nicola Bully case. Nicola
Bully. If you don't know thatstory, if you're not English, if
you don't know that story, it'sthe story of a lady who went missing

(08:41):
near a river and her phone andher dog lead and her dog was found
on a bench near this river.And Nicola adopt her children off at school
and then usually walked her dog aroundthis field and then she went missing and
they couldn't find her and then theycalled in a friend of ours who is
is called Peter. He's an underwatersearching specialist with his team, And there

(09:07):
was a lot of a lot ofthings that happened in that case that made
it, you know, into thenews, and it was a huge case
here for twenty twenty three and it'sstill on going. They just had the
inquest into that, They just hadan inquiry into police behavior and police procedure
in that, and it's carrying on. It's not going to stop there.
So they did eventually sadly find Nicholas'sbody in the river. It was confirmed

(09:28):
that it was actually her, butthey still don't know how she got into
the river. They don't know whetherit was suicide, they don't know whether
it was murder. It's undetermined stillas far as I know. But people
have got their opinions all over theplace in true crime in the true crime
world as to what happened and howit happened. So I think that would
be the biggest case here for us. About what about there? What do

(09:50):
you think is the biggest case there? I think we've had a pretty a
pretty significant year when it comes toyou really began the year with the Idaho
murders, right, and then yeah, the arrest of Brian Cohlberger. So
I think for most of the yearthat's probably what's been dominating the headlines.

(10:13):
That's true. But then you alsohad the Alex Murder murder. Yeah,
his trial and him being found guilty. So to just explain those because if
you're not if you're not familiar theIdaho murders, just just explain that that
was some It was it was collegestudents when they were living in a house.
It wasn't was it on a wasit on campus or were they just

(10:35):
outside of camp? It was justoutside of campus, so it was considered
off campus housing. But yeah,I mean it's if right, it was
right, I mean really it's it'sit's just a house that was it just
outside of campus, so it wasn'towned by the university anything. So this
happened in the University of Idaho lastNovember when for you as the Idaho students

(11:00):
were found murdered in there the homethat they rented together or three of them
lived together, and then one wasa was a boyfriend and what was it.
It was just so this happened inthe end of November twenty twenty two.
Then about a month later, policearrested a man named Brian Kohlberger,
who was a PhD candidate student atthe University of Washington State University. And

(11:26):
so so that has really that's beenI would say, probably the biggest story
over the course of the year.Yeah, right, you do have the
trial. He still hasn't been chargedyet, as we still got the we
still got the trial to come.Yeah, he's been charged, but he's
still he's still is going to haveto face trial. So he's still in

(11:48):
custody and that's supposed to occur sometimenext year, I believe next year.
Yeah. I keep feeling feeling Ifeel like it keeps getting pushed back.
So I don't know exactly when it'sgoing to start, but it's supposed to
be. In twenty two four,we had the trial Alex Murda, who
was accused of murdering his wife,Margaret and son Paul. Oh what I

(12:11):
say? What I say? DidI say wife and wife and son?
Oh? We had let me sayagain. Yeah, So who was on
trial for the murders of his wife, Margaret and his son Paul. If
you remember he can. He maintainedthat he had nothing to do with their
deaths. Yeah, time got histrial, Star wrote last February, So

(12:33):
February twenty yeah three. It feelslike it would just happened not too long
ago. So yeah, so hewent on trial and then he ended up
being found guilty of those murders andnow is going to be spending the rest
of his life in jail unless heappeals and somehow gets through those those appeals.
And I think the the other bigstory, which kind of it's kind

(12:56):
of fallen off a little bit sincesince it came out, was the rest
of the Long Island serial killer.Yeah, they'll be killer, right,
Yeah, Which isn't that I've heardthat that's going to be pushed back.
That's supposed to be twenty four,isn't it. But I've heard that that
was supposed to be summer twenty twentyfour, But that's most likely to be
pushed back even further into autumn,maybe winter of twenty twenty four, the

(13:20):
same as Abby and Libby's, youknow, the girls that were killed down
the Hill. If you've listened tothat podcast or if you've listened to True
Crime Garage, they covered that casequite extensively. Nick obviously wrote a book
about that case, and so thatone. I understand that was due to
be early part of twenty twenty three, but I understand now that's going to

(13:43):
be pushed. I've heard a fewwhispers about that probably going to be pushed
to late twenty twenty four. Yes, that's correct. Another one, so
yeah, I mean, yeah,we've had some really big, key,
big cases. You have cases thatI've occurred over the passion. It's definitely
even a be an interesting year.And then then we have all these big

(14:03):
trials that are set for twenty twentyfourth, and next year is going to
be, yeah, just a bigI believe next year is going to be
full of like I mean hopefully insort of from from a from an interested
kind of person's viewpoint, I hopethat we're able to watch the trials.
I'm hoping that we will be ableto do that. I mean we also

(14:24):
had here, we had the wehad some I mean we've now only just
started televising some trials here. It'snot been something that we generally do as
a country, I mean not allof ours, or we don't have like
a court TV in England that coverthe British cases. But we have we
have it has now we have gotcases that you're able to watch, so

(14:48):
that that's another thing that's been quitequite a big We have more stringent privacy
laws over there too, Yes,yeah, I agree, which makes it
more difficult for trials to be onTV. Yeah, I mean, but
I do think that it would beI do think it would be interesting.
I mean, I that the casein England of Lucy let Be, which

(15:09):
was a nurse that killed newborn babies. If you it's a very disturbing,
very upsetting case because again as aas an adult, it involves children.
It involves children that are defenseless,they can't defend themselves against this woman.
And I listened to the whole ofthat. I listened to all of the

(15:33):
trial transfer, all of the trialupdates. I listened to every single episode.
I think there was a there wasa podcast about it that one of
our one of our listeners actually saidto me, have you heard it?
And I said, no, Ihaven't actually, and she said, it's
really you should. You should listento it. I think you will.
It'll be something that you would findinteresting. And I did. I listened
to the news coverage of it,and it's basically, they've put it into

(15:56):
a podcast. It's two reporters thatevery day, the end of the trial
days, they come back and theybasically download everything. They're only allowed to
tell you what was given in court, so that it's fair, that there's
a fair trial. They're not givingaway anything that hasn't already been talked about
in court. So at the endof every day they come out and they
tell you what happened that day.And that was really really interesting because if

(16:21):
I was and I'm trying to listenas a potential jury member, and I
listened to it, and I'm thewhole way through guilty, guilty, guilty.
But when I watch the news,you look at her and you think
she surely not. Surely, surelyit's a mistake. Surely this is just
something that went wrong, and surelythat this woman's innocent. But when I

(16:41):
listened to the trial, and Ihighly recommend it, go and find it,
The Trial of Lucy let be it. You just listen to it and
you can't believe what you're hearing.You just cannot believe that this is real
because it sounds like something you'd belistening to in an audio book, sounds
like it's it's completely made up andit's very very sad because it is very

(17:04):
true and a lot of children diedat her hands, and with further children
that were affected by her but didn'tactually die. But it's just it and
that's that was another huge case forus in England this year. Huge.
Yeah, it's been a wild year. Just absolute monster. You look at
her, you just yeah, youlook at her and you just think.

(17:27):
But when you listen to it andyou listen to her she denies ever doing
it, then they must say thatshe denies it. But when you listen
to it and you listen to whatthe prosecution's case is, you kind of
sit there and go, ah,I see what I see what she's thinking.
I see why she's done it.I can see what her You can

(17:48):
almost hear the cogs kind of goingaround as to if she does this,
this happens, if she does this, this happens. You can kind of
see how it's playing out. Andit's very pcologically from a psychological point of
view. It's a very interesting listenif psychology is something that interests you.
So you've mentioned now two podcasts thatyou've listened to. Yeah, yeah,

(18:14):
but those two make your list offavorites. I think so, Yeah,
I definitely think so. I definitelythink particularly the Trial of Lucy. I'd
like to listen to podcasts that areobviously informative. I like to listen to
podcasts that are for me police proceduralbased or courtroom you know, a courtroom
based. I like the factual kindof podcast. I do like to listen

(18:37):
to what other people think, likewhen I listen to podcasts like You and
I, where you do have adiscussion about things. So I think it's
not going to change very much fromlast year. Anatomy of Murder with Anna
Sega NICOLASI brilliant. She's a formerprosecutor and the guy that she does it
with is a former I think he'sa former police police deputy. That absolutely

(19:03):
brilliant. I love it because they'veboth got background in police in and law.
They talk about the cases, theypresent the whole case to you so
you can hear it. But there'salways have a solution, so that's the
way you get your fix of likeyou've got your solution kind of fix.
Court Junkie as always is always inmy top ten of podcasts because I love
the fact that Jillian just literally givesyou the downloads of the court cases.

(19:27):
I would say, I would sayMusic City nine one one is one that
I never miss every week. Inever miss Brandon's show. It's very interesting
to me. The whole aspect ofright there happening crime that you can hear
unfolding, that's very interesting. SoI would highly recommend that one. And
yeah, I think I would.I would definitely recommend. I would definitely

(19:48):
recommend the trial of Lucy let Befor this year. It's a very very
interesting case and true crime investigators twoof our friends Sally and John. Theirs
tend to be over a few episodesone case over a few episodes. I
think they've got like three or fouron there. But again, very police
procedural based, lots of information andthat that fascinates me. So if if

(20:11):
I had to give you those,I would I would say those you don't
do. But you don't do podcaststoo much, do you. It's normally
you know, don't listen to crimepodcasts. I don't mostly, and I've
said this before mostly because like whenI would listen to podcast would be a
new way to work on my wayto work. But since i've been work

(20:33):
from home, that time has hasgone. So yeah, I don't listen
to a whole lot of podcast thesedays. Yeah, I mean there's things
just me, but like I justhaven't got to them because you know,
I that time when I would like, oh here, I want to put
this on. I don't have thattime like I wouldn't. But then also

(20:53):
you quite like you kind of likehistorical Like you like historical stuff too,
don't you kind of into your likehistory and that kind of stuff. So
quite a lot of stuff that youlisten to isn't true crime based exactly,
it's true like like I've I wouldsay one of my favorite when I when
I have listened it's Twisted Britain becauseyou know you have a little bit of

(21:17):
both, right, well we do, yeah, yeah that I love Babin
Ali. Yeah, but they're bothabsolutely amazing storytellers as well. They are
like, yeah, you're right,they're very interesting stories. And you can
tell that they that they find itinteresting, right, So you if you're
listening to a podcast and you cantell that they're just kind of they're doing

(21:41):
it because they feel like this isthis is a way to make money or
to become famous or whatever. Youcan you can get that from people.
Yeah, yeah, and you canhear it because they're they're not telling a
story, they're just like they're reading, right, there's no passion, there's
no passion. But with like Boband Now you can tell like they really
enjoy what they enjoy hanging out andthey enjoy telling the stories to each other

(22:03):
and to worse. So that's that'sabsolutely one of one of my favorite just
because it's uh, you know,is crime related right a lot of times,
and there's a lot of historical storiesthat they're telling us. So that's
one. And it's like, Ithink, isn't it isn't it the only
podcast that's recorded in the pub?I think it's the only podcast where they

(22:26):
actually record in a real pub.Does it? It doesn't affect It doesn't
affect the quality of it. ButI mean, like it's the only like
factor like true crime one that's recordingthe pub. I mean, there might
be some fun in the pub,but I don't think any any other true
crime podcast I know records in apub. It doesn't affect it. They

(22:47):
sound, it sounds brilliant. Wasit the oldest pub in Sterling, Scotland?
Yeah, like Sterling. Isn't thatwhere Andy Murray's from? Isn't he
from Sterling? I don't know bySterling. We had to make that up.
Yeah, that's where it comes from. Sterling, right, Everyone's Scottish
from Sterling. Surely everyone I've talkingabout is from where Bob and Ali come

(23:11):
from. The Proclaimers Sterling? Yeah, everyone, everyone, all the Scottish
dudes from Sterling. There's no othercity in Scyling that matter. Just yeah,
that's right. So other recommendations I'vegot for you if you like books.
So I've read a lot of booksthis year. You know, if
you if you go onto good Reads, you can set yourself like a target

(23:33):
of books to read in a year. And so I did that again this
year because I did it last yearand I didn't know anything about it last
year, and I did a twentytwenty two last year, I read fifty
four books in twenty twenty two andthis year, fo Yeah, this year
I set myself a goal of seventybooks and I'm currently at sixty five.
So I've got five more books toread before the end of end of December.

(23:57):
I've got two on the go atthe moment, so you know,
I'm doing two at the minute.If I put one book as my goal,
I would be hard pressed to hitthat one. That one book in
a year. You have done sixtyfive this year so far. Wow.
Okay, so you bake you makeup for me. Okay, Yeah,

(24:17):
we're collectively, we're doing good.Collectively. Collectively, we're going to hit
seventy this year. Everybody, We'regoing to hit seventy books this year.
Collectively. Yeah, because we're alreadyIf I'm on sixty five and you're on
one, we're already on. We'reonly on sixty six. We'll do it.
We're nearly there. Yeah, we'redoing really good. We are go
ass. So I'm going to giveyou recommended reads for twenty twenty three or

(24:40):
twenty twenty four. This is whatI've been reading in twenty three that you
could get as Christmas presents for peoplein twenty four if they are if they
like this kind of thing. Soin no particular order, because I would
really be hard pressed to put themat number one. First one, if
you're into murder investigation and please procedurelike me, then the murder investigation team.
How Scotland Yard really catches killers?By Stephen Keo, not just because

(25:03):
he's a friend of ours, butalso because he is a highly fascinating man.
Another former detective from Scotland yard whoactually talks you through the procedure from
start to finish. So in thisbook, he will first talk about the
crime. He'll talk about the phonecall that comes through, he talks about
the team that get dispatched, howthat team is chosen, why that team

(25:25):
is chosen. He then talks aboutwhat they do when they very first get
on scene. And I like thathe talks you through as a detective what
he's looking at. So although you'vegot the crime scene right in front of
you, he's also looking further afield, so he's not just looking at where
they found the person. He's alsolooking like at the wider area. And
I found that procedure from him reallyreally interesting. And then he talks about

(25:49):
cases other cases related that like that, and things that are why he does
certain things, why they do things, why they don't do certain things,
mistakes that are made, and whathe's learnt from them and things like that,
And that was a really interesting Thatwas a really interesting read. So
if you want to get hold ofthat one, I highly recommend that if
you've got someone in your life,if it's not you, or someone in

(26:11):
your life that really enjoys kind oflike the detective real detective stories. Still
on the theme of detectives, abook called No Comment from Jess MacDonald.
Now she entered the Met Police's detectivescheme. So she's got a degree.
And as you know, if you'rein England at the moment, if you
want to train as a detective,you don't have to be a police officer

(26:34):
first of all. So you dodo police training, but you don't do
like your standard two years as anon the beat Bobby. You can go
into the direct entry detective. Now, this this is a book about what
she wishes she had known before shedid the job. This was a very
interesting book because to me, thiswas very she was very, very stressed.

(26:59):
It was a very stressful job.And this wasn't more about This wasn't
more about the cases exactly, althoughshe does talk about the cases and the
crimes that she went to. It'smore about how she was treated in the
workplace, how her job her,what she was expected to do, how
she clashed with a senior investigating officer, and how that made her job quite

(27:25):
hard, what it was like enteringas a degree student, what it was
like, some of the things thatshe had to do when she entered in.
So there's a process. If ever, you if you've never been,
if you've never worked in a policeforce, to actually get a job within
a police force is a it's avery very lengthy process. I'm talking like

(27:48):
months and months and months from thestart that you apply to the point that
you actually get given the yes,you've got the job. And she talks
all about that, she talks aboutthe things she had to do. It
wasn't a height restriction then, obviouslybecause that got scrapped ages ago. But
that's again another police procedureal one.But this is more about the internal workings
of the police force, which wasquite an interesting interest in read. Then

(28:15):
I think the next three I'm goingto do five for you. The next
three stitch up Stitched Up by doctorshihead Yusef. I hope I've said his
name right, because I probably don'tand everyone says his name wrong. So
I apologize, sir doctor yusif hewas a prison doctor and we met him
at crime con Absolutely lovely man,really nice guy, and his book is

(28:37):
very eye opening because it talks toyou about the humanization of people in prison.
He talks to you about being aprison doctor and the things that he
experienced and cases that he talks about, and he talks about procedures in prisons
and how the whole being a doctorin prison works. Very very interesting behind

(29:00):
the scenes look into the life ofa prison doctor. Probably not a job
I think I would want, ifI'm honest. It sounds to me like
a very very hard job, bothemotionally physically. And that was a That
was a really really good book.I really enjoyed his book. I read
that very quickly. The other one, well, I'd like to say,

(29:22):
if it depends if you've got apretty strong stomach, this is a good
one. It's a book called CorruptBodies by a guy called Peter Everett,
and this is the tales of aLondon mark he became a It's weird because
I've read a few books this yearby pathologists, and I've read a few
books by undertakers and funeral directors andsomething. There's like a running thread through

(29:48):
all of them. All of thesepeople have it have it set that they
want to work with the dead,they want they want to do that job.
Some of them fell into it byaccidents, some of them were like
Gung Ho from university that they definitelywanted that career path. And I think
it takes a certain person and acertain personality to be able to work in

(30:10):
that field. And this book,he tells you it from the not really
from the It does talk about cases, he does talk about his actual work.
But this again is a little bitlike Jess's book in where he talks
about back in the day, Ithink it was like in the nineteen fifties
or something like that, and hetalks about how they would like it would

(30:33):
be very corrupt the whole like deathindustry was so corrupt, and there wasn't
the rules, and there wasn't theregulations that we have in nowadays death industry.
There are a lot of rules nowadaysabout you know, people's belongings,
say about people's family, about bodyparts. You can't sell body parts anymore,
whereas back in the day they usedto sell body parts to different places,

(30:57):
and it was one of those thingthat was done but was just ignored.
And that I was like, Ifound that very very eye opening.
So that was a really good bookand my Last One for You is a
book that I absolutely I really,I don't know what I don't think.
Enjoyed is the word. I devouredthis book because I found it really really

(31:18):
interesting. It's called Sorry for YourLoss, and it's by a lady called
Kate Marshall, and she worked ina North of England NHS hospital in the
mortuary and she worked in breathment services. And this book talks to you about
what happens when your loved one istaken to the mortuary, because it's kind

(31:41):
of one of those things we don'tknow a lot about, like death services
are very taboo, especially in England. It's something that we don't talk about.
And she basically explains everything. Sheexplains what happens, but she tells
it because she's there and she's dealingwith people's family members and heartbreaking because it's
not just old people. It's notjust old people that the mortuary deals with.

(32:05):
It's pregnant women that have just losttheir babies, it's miscarriages, it's
stillborn children, it's infants that havedied, it's people's mums. Like she
explains it in such a way thatyou kind of get to the end of
the book, and you think,oh my god, those people do such
an amazing job. How difficult istheir job in that they're constantly consoling in

(32:27):
breathment services, They're constantly consoling people. Their job is constantly people that have
just lost somebody at their worst point. No no matter how they've died,
they've just lost a family member,and that's who they deal with every single
day, multiple times a day.You don't get a happy cut, you
know, and a happy outcome withtheir job because it's always lost. And

(32:50):
she speaks to you and she explainsabout how that makes her feel, and
how she sat with a lady whohad passed away because her daughter didn't want
her mum to be on an Shedidn't want to be honest, she said,
kept saying, I don't want itto be in a fridge on her
own, and so this lady satwith her mum to make sure. But
the book also talks about the COVIDpandemic and what happened during COVID and how

(33:13):
people were dying all over the placeof a highly infectious disease and how the
mortuary staff had to deal with thatbecause obviously at that point they were inundated
with death, and obviously they were. It was at a point where you
couldn't go and visit your loved onesbecause they died of COVID and it was
highly infectious, and at that timenobody knew what was going on, and
so all these things got canceled.Nobody could go and visit in the mortuary,

(33:36):
in the chapel of rest. Andit was just a fascinating book on
a topic that we know nothing aboutreally in general society. It's a taboo
subject that no one talks about.And it was really interesting to really really
interesting to read. So I highlyrecommend that one too. It's not a
bloodthirsty, gory, full of awfuldetails, not that kind of book.

(34:00):
It's just very very interesting. Soyeah, they're my top reads for twenty
twenty three into twenty twenty four.Oh good, very interesting, very interesting.
Yeah. So yeah, So Ithink I think it's always it's always
good to have recommendations from people,particularly at true crime recommendations. If that's
because you tend to listen to thesame podcasts every week, and you tend

(34:23):
to listen, I'm the same.I'm guilty of doing exactly the same.
You tend to listen and read thesame kind of stuff. So it's always
good to have a recommendation for somebodyon a book that or a series or
something that you might not necessarily havewatched. I mean, you've watched some
documentary series this year, haven't youthat you would recommend. Yeah, So

(34:45):
there are definitely some series in documentariesin i'll call them shows or that over
the past year that I've really reallyenjoyed and I did find myself watching.
You know, there are a fewthat I that I would watch. There

(35:06):
were multiple shows based on it,so I think one of my favorite ones
the past year was a show thatwas on It was like a limited series
that was on HBO Max called Loveand Death. Okay, I don't know
if if you saw this one ornot. This one this one's was it
was. I guess you would callit a mini series, right, So

(35:31):
it was kind of starred Elizabeth Olsen, who played Candy Montgomery. I don't
know if you know the Candy Montgomerystory, but no, it doesn't like
it. Candy Mounttgomery was a wasa church going woman who ended up having
an affair with with a man whoattended their church and would later be arrested

(35:54):
and tried in the murder, theaxe murder of her h her affair partner's
wife. Oh so okay, sothe true story base. Yeah, that's
a true story. You know.So I can't remember exactly when this happened.

(36:15):
I want to say this probably happened. Was either was it in the
eighties, Like I'm gonna say,uh see, I'm stuck on it right
now, mid eighties, I'm gonnasay, right. Yeah, So she
had a she had an affair withwith another prisoner at the church. At
some point they break it off andshe, you know, she says that

(36:37):
that the murder occurred in self defense. So basically the show is about is
how the two began their affair,what went on, how it ended.
It gets into the murder, andthis is one of those things where it's
kind of like did she do it? Did she? Did she do it?
On? Did she murder them?Was it was an accident? Was

(36:59):
it self defense? And it goesinto the trial. So yeah, so
that one was really good. Therewas another one that came out the year
of twenty twenty two, just calledCandy. I think that one started started
Jessica Biel, which I started watchingthat, but it was it was pretty
much the same. Yeah, SoI don't want to say that it was
any better or any worse, butit was kind of one of those things

(37:22):
where once you watch one of them, you really don't need to watch both.
Yeah, so that one was reallygood. There was another show which
I see. What's interesting is Idon't know what you have access to over
there, so some of these,yeah, may not even have heard.
So there was one film. Therewas a three three episode documentary show that

(37:45):
was called Murder and Bighorn. Sobasically it's a documentaries that that that basically
covered i'll just call it the epidemicof missing and murdered Indigenous women and Big
Horton County, Monte. So basicallythere's they have a lot of interviews with

(38:05):
with families and law enforcement and itbasically sheds light on on what what has
happened out there in Bighorn County,Montana and trying to seek, you know,
figure out you know, what happenedand and too you know, try
to try to you know, bringthe truth of the matter to surface.

(38:28):
So yeah, so it was veryinteresting. I mean, we've talked about
that before. I feel like Indigenouswomen it's underrepresented isn't it industry? Oh?
Absolutely, Yeah, So it's definitelya very very important story to tell.
So that one was really a goodone. I think that one was
on Paramount. Plus, if I'mnot mistaken, we get that in England,

(38:49):
so that to look out for,we can get we can get Paramount.
So that's that's a good one tolook out for. Yeah, so
definitely check that one out. Iwill put on the Murder Murders, which
is the Southern Southern Scandal, whichwas on Netflix, and I'm going to
put that one on because when histrial was going to start, I'll be

(39:13):
the first one to ment I didn'tknow the story in itself. I didn't
know the whole story. So thatwas probably one of the it was interesting
because it it kind of it wasin depth when it wasn't, they didn't
drag on. So I think thatwas one another three part docu series that
covered the the story and how howwe got to where we were at that

(39:37):
time, which was the trial ofAlex Murda. Did you catch did you
catch the show called The Hatchet WieldingHitchhiker by chance? Did you have to
see that one? No? Youhaven't seen this one. So this one
was on Netflix. This was abouta a hitch hiker, happy go lucky

(39:57):
hitch hiker that went viral after hewas forced to use a hatchet to stop
a man from committing a brutal crime. So he had witnessed a man,
uh basically, he was he wasgoing to kill another man, and this
guy he was a bystander. Hehappened to see what was going on and
he ended up wielding a hatchet andand and stopping the man from causing any

(40:23):
death or or serious harm to anothercomplete stranger. So it was his story.
But then as you go, asa story continues, it kind of
gets darker and darker and darker untilthe truth about this hitchhiker kind of came
to the surface, Like what typeof person he really was? Yeah,

(40:49):
very interesting. So the story abouta good samaritan who ended up himself not
being such a good samaritan. Howabout that? That sounds really interest And
I love to look and see ifwe got that on Netflix. What was
that one called the hitchhik that wasthe hatchet wielding hitchhiker. Yeah, I
love a look for that. Thatsounds quite interesting. That one was really

(41:10):
good. I at some point inthe year I was. I get obsessed
with certain stories or stern certain things. And one thing that I always come
back to and I always get obsessedwith is the Brand Davidians, the Waco.
The Waco tragedy, Yeah, wherethe Branch Davidian sect ended up having

(41:35):
a fifty one day stand off orsiege against them. Yeah, fifty one
days. That was with the DavidKoresh And after fifty one days, there
was attempted breach into their compound andthe compound ended up in flames and I
don't remember how many how many peoplehad died and how many people from the
Brandavidians died, but numerous deaths fromthat, yeah, so they were Actually

(42:00):
there were at least two different showsthat I watched the past year which I
really enjoyed. So the first onewas on Netflix. It's called Waco American
Apocalypse. So that was a docuseries which basically talked about the Branch Davidians,
what led to the the fifty oneday siege, what occurred during the

(42:21):
siege. So it was very indepth, very interesting. The other what
I watched was a it was likeit was a mini series which was on
Showtime in Paramount plus called Waco TheAftermath, Aftermath, which is it was
a scripted limited series, and soit really covered a few different things.

(42:42):
It covered the aftermath of the siegeand what happened to the survivors, So
I know that there were at leastI think there were maybe even five survivors
who ended up getting you know,charged and put on trial for their participation
in it. But then it alsocovered how David Koresh rose to power within

(43:05):
the Branch Davidians. And it alsocovered how what it happened to the Branch
Davidians led to Timothy McVeigh, theOklahoma City bomber. Yeah, how that
helped radicalize him, and how allthe events led ultimately to the Oklahoma City
bombing. So wow, that's anotherreally good I really enjoyed that one.

(43:30):
Yeah. So yeah, I meanthose were those were a few of them.
I feel like there were so manyothers that I watch. I mean,
I think most people probably watched Painkiller. Painkiller was my favorite. See
you're a watcher, I'm the reader. You're a more visual, more visual
visual mark because I haven't watched thatmany docuseries. I haven't watched that many

(43:50):
sort of true crime kind of stuffthis year, whereas like I think for
you, it's a more visual thing. Is it's the same. Like my
husband's the same. He would muchrather watch something than he would say down
and read about it. I don'tknow. It's funny, isn't it?
How how it works like that?I am visual learner. Yeah, so
that's I mean, I I that'show I am able to absorb information.

(44:14):
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, that's I would rather sit down and
watch something. Yeah, And thenI don't know, I have a hard
time. I have a hard timevisualizing books. I guess a little bit.
Yeah, if that makes sense.So that's you know, that's it,

(44:35):
isn't it. There's lots of differentways to stuff that you're interested in.
There's lots of different ways to digestthat kind of information, which is
really good. Why I wanted todo this this week is that people people
do ask me a lot for recommendationson things, and so it's really nice
to be able to recommend things,you know, books for myself to recommend,
and you know, like docuseries foryou to recommend. It is very
interesting to hear what other people liketo listen to. And it's is a

(45:00):
question that we get asked, askedquite a lot of stuff. Obviously,
we need to mention Murder in thetwenty first because we featured in that show
this year. We were on thepremiere episode of that talking about the Natalie
Bollinger case. So there's that wehave to obviously recommend because it is actually
a really good show. You couldn'tget it in England. Yeah, I
couldn't get it in England, buta friend of mine, thank in the

(45:22):
US, recorded it for me andthen sent it to me so I could
watch it, and that was thatwas a really interesting show to be part
of, telling a very important storyof a young lady who was murdered.
And even watching that back, evenwatching it and watching Natalie's mum and watching
Natalie's grandma talk about it, stillmade me feel really sad and really sick

(45:46):
hearing them, hearing them talk again. Even though we you know, we
did it a lot. I thinkthat that case will always be a case
that's a bit special to us becausewe were the first people that Natalie and
her grandma Wether ever spoke to abouther and it was an absolute privilege for
us to be able to tell theirstory and we are you know we will

(46:08):
always be very very proud of thatand always close to Natalie's parents. It
was yeah, very very sad,very sad story, but we were honored
to be part of that show.So that would be another show we would
recommend. So with that, Ithought I could end this episode of our

(46:34):
list, our favorite things, whateveryou want to call it, with what
might be my favorite dumb criminal thatI have come across. Okay, and
maybe my favorite dumb criminal story thatthat I've ever told. Maybe that is
a high accolade. Okay, giveme the dumb criminal for this week.

(46:58):
Okay, all right, So Idon't know if you've heard you've heard this
story, but this story is absolutelyamazing. It involves Taco Bell, a
franchise owner, a wife of thefranchise owner, and employees. Okay,
okay, So a former Taco Bellemployee is currently suing the restaurant chain and

(47:28):
the franchise owner after reportedly wentn't seenexcessive drinking and open sex at a holiday
party hosted at a Taco Bell storelast year. Employees having sex or partygoers
these are employees in yeah, yes, okay, so this is the former

(47:53):
employee filed complaint with the Superior SuperiorCourt of Los Yeah again, would you
like to try and get your wordsout again properly? Yes? Man?
So. This former employee filed acomplaint with the Superior Court of California,
Los Angeles last month, claiming thatthe company fostered a hostile work environment and

(48:16):
retaliated against her and issued a wrongfulconstructive termination, among other damages. Right
now. According to the complaint,this former employee stated that her former supervisor
invited her to a pot luck styleholiday party at December on December eighteenth,
twenty twenty two, where alcohol wasserved. Okay, so let me just

(48:38):
say this, wrong with that ifyou if you are having a holiday party,
an employee holiday party at your placeof employment, and your place employment
is a Taco bell or any restaurant, right, but they're like, Hey,
we're gonna make this pot luck,so we're not going to eat the
food here, so bring your own. I'll tell you a lot about the

(49:00):
quality of food that they're serving atthat establishment. Right. Well, but
I wouldn't thought. I wouldn't havethought that. I would have thought,
well, maybe they just don't wantto cook that night, and everyone brings
food and then everyone shares it.It's like then nobody has to have to
do this. True, that istrue. That's how naive I am now.
Prior to attending now, this formeremployee says she believed that the company

(49:22):
had approved the party, and shedecided to bring a bowl of quacamole for
the event. Okay now, whenwhen she arrived, she knows that her
supervisor had covered both storefront windows andsecurity cameras with wrapping paper. Excessive amounts
of alcohol were also pro poorly servedto employees by the supervisor. Okay now,

(49:45):
around midnight, this former employee,who had been socializing outside the restaurant
for a short while, walked backinto the restaurant and witnessed her coworker having
sex with his wife in front ofeveryone at the party. Whoa Two colleagues,
which included the former employee super advisor, were simultaneous simultaneously kissing their colleague's

(50:07):
wife amid the sex act. Afterwitnessing the sexual activity inside the restaurant,
the former employee ran outside, feelingshocked, disgusted, and outraged by what
she saw. She returned shortly Shereturned, She went back. She returned
inside shortly after to retrieve her guacamollibowl, which was being used by someone

(50:30):
at the party to vomit in.I would have left that bowl. I
would have just gone. I mean, come on, I mean, people
have people get too drunk at officeparties, don't they. There's always somebody
that goes way over the top.You just leave, Yes, you don't
like it, just go just gohome. Now, So, after she
complained to her supervisor about the ordeal, a colleague threatened to fight her,

(50:53):
although no physical altercation occurred. Thisis insane. This is insane. Now.
She would end up reporting this incidentto Taco Bells Human resources. Yeah,
and later a poorted the incident tothe franchise owner on December twenty first.
According to the lawsuit, the supervisorand two staffers, which include the

(51:14):
employee engaging in the sex act,were terminated after the company issued investigation.
Now things turn for the worst whenthe former employee claims she received an on
an onslaught of threats from Taco bellemployees. Oh dear, they like the
sex there. That's not apparent thing. Who does unlock a little guack molan,

(51:38):
little sex, come on voment,guacamole vomit And now I mean,
come on, is I mean youjust leave? Wouldn't you? You just
leave? It's highly inappropriate. Butthe fact, I mean, I get
that, the fact they covered upthe windows because if you haven't a private
party and everyone's you know, gettinga bit drunk, fair enough, But
the security cameras being wrapped up makesme think this is kind of pre planned.

(52:00):
Oh yeah, you know, itkind of makes it seem like it's
pre panned. I mean I wouldhave think I would have just like handed
in my notice and said, likethat really isn't for me. Guys,
you know, have fun see later. Could you imagine if they were serving
taco bell that night, Yeah,the gastro issues, everyone's gonna be having

(52:22):
he about the way you think.This is what I don't understand. Right,
So, so this happens, right, there's people having a good time,
probably doing stuff they shouldn't be doingon you know, on on the
table at your place, on thetable, in your guacamoli ball or whatever.
But then she's, you know,but then she's saying that these coworkers

(52:43):
are like rain her. She saidthat she received at least one text message
from a female coworker who said,and I quote, baby girl, I
want to break your face and thenI don't give a fuck about your car.
This was after her the former employee'scar had her back window broken out.
Why I'm so angry with her,Like because she reported it. Maybe

(53:07):
maybe that's why, because like I'mguessing this must have been a new job.
They must do this at that TacoBell every year because they all seem
fine with it. So maybe itwas pre planned. Maybe like this year
it was like Shirley and Tom.Next year it's gonna be Mikencera. Maybe
the turns and no one's kind oflike pre emptied that she's going to be
mad about it. Like, girl, you messed up our sex party.
Yeah, Christmas messed up our Christmasparty? Well yeah, so unbelievable.

(53:34):
Like I don't know, Like,well, I wonder if it would go
through and whether it be a successfulcase or not. Yeah, I don't
know. I don't think i'd liketo work on that one. Imagine being
a lawyer on that one. Jeez, that would be a lot of work
for Yeah, that's a sticky one. Oh well, thank you for well

(54:00):
that act is gross. Yeah,So if you're anywhere near, if you're
invited to attack a bell Christmas party, Maybe turn it down unless that's your
thing, or at least go prepared, Dan Pedro, go prepared. If
you're invited to a San Pedro Tacobell party, just know what you're getting
in for. Just know your guacamulibul might get used for vomit. Maybe

(54:24):
use a disposable bowl so you don'thave to take it home again. I
feel like holiday work parties are area it's a big liability. I think
next week's crime Pedia extra should bework party stories. Let's do that so

(54:47):
our next week is otherwise we're goingto talk about this. We could talk
about this all night. Next week'scrime Pedia Extra definitely should be workplace stories.
So if you're listening to this andyou want to tell us about a
work playstory. Maybe it's horrific,maybe it's just gross, send it through
to us. You can send themon Instagram. You can send it through
to us via email. It's veryeasy. Cherry at Crimepedia podcast dot com

(55:09):
or Morgan at crimepediapodcast dot com.Send us over your workplace stories and we
will chat about them next week onour crime Pedia Episode Extra episode, which
you can find in Patreon. Youcan join it for as like small as
two dollars a month, I think, whatever our lowest tier is, and
it gives you access to all ofour episodes that are kind of a little

(55:29):
bit like this one, where wedo go off topic and we do talk
about things other than to crime.So today's episode will give you a kind
of insight into what our poor patreonsare usually subjected to over on Patreon.
We will be back next week,though never fear. We'll have a proper
episode back again. It was completelymy fault this week because I was away,
So we'll have a proper episode backand I'll be with you with a

(55:49):
new true crime episode. So fornow, be nice and bye.