April 23, 2024 • 52 mins
Keith Lyon was a very cute 12 year old boy with a cheeky face and ears that he’d not yet grown into. He lived with his Mother Valda, father Ken and little brother Peter who was 7 in the village of Ovingdean- which is a small village very close to Brighton and Hove in East Sussex. They lived in a pretty large home. The family were a very respectable family and were well liked. On the 4th May 1967 Ken was preparing to play in a concert at the Metropole hotel in Brighton when Police arrived asking to speak with him. That day would change the lives of the Lyon family forever.
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License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/crimepedia--5894684/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:44):
Welcome to crime Pedia podcast. Thisweek, I'm your host, I'm Cherry.
Hello to you, and with meas always is my true crime BFF.
It is Morgan. Hello, Cherry, how are you all good?
Thank you? Now remind me atthe end of the show, I have
some business to tell you about.So don't let me forget before we finish
the show, because I'll forget andthen the business will go out the window.
(01:10):
So I've got a good case foryou today, Morgan, You're going
to be pleased with this one.I've got a pretty good case for you.
I don't need any trigger warnings.I don't think for this case this
week, So how about you putyour feet up, sit back and let
me tell you a story. KeithLyon was a very cute twelve year old
(01:34):
boy with a cheeky face and earsthat he had not yet grown into.
He lived with his mother Vowder,his father Ken and his little brother Peter,
who was seven, in the villageof Ovingdean, which is a small
village very close to Brighton and Hovein East Sussex. They lived in a
pretty large family home and they werea very respectable family, all well liked.
On the fourth of May, nineteensixty seven, Ken was preparing to
(01:56):
play a concert at the Metropol Hotelin Brighton when police survived ask him to
speak with him. That day wouldchange the lives of the Lion family forever.
This is crime Pedia and this isthe murder of Keith Lyon. Okay
Morgan. So, Keith attended Brighton, Hove and Sussex Grammar School. I
know how much you love Brighton,so this is a Brighton based case for
(02:20):
you. He was a very giftedclassical musician and obviously his dad had musical
genes. He was a band leader. His dad was a really popular man.
Everybody knew the family in the area, and Keith was a bright student.
He enjoyed going to school. AndI don't know if the difference over
there in America, but over hereyou have like your normal public schools that
(02:43):
everybody goes to, like your normalschools. Then you have like grammar schools
and private schools. So a grammarschool would be at the end when I
was a kid. I don't knowif it's still the same now, but
when I was a kid, whenyou turned like the last year of primary
school, so say like ten,age ten to eleven, you would take
some exams called the eleven plus,and when you take the eleven plus,
(03:05):
if you scored high enough on it, you would be able to then apply
for grammar school, which is aposher school than the normal kind of like
normal state school kind of thing.If some kids went to private schools and
boarding schools and stuff like that,but a grammar school was like a slightly
more gifted school. When I wasa kid, so I did pass my
eleven plus, but I didn't goto grammar school because Grammar school was an
(03:29):
all girls school in my area,and I did not want to go to
an all girls school, so Ipassed up that opportunity, of course,
not of course, not, ofcourse. So on the fourth of May
in nineteen sixty seven, it wasa day that Peter and Keith got paid
their pocket money. So they werepaid three of four shillings, which is
equivalent to around three pounds in today'smoney. The boys were very excited to
(03:53):
go shop in and spend their money. It was a beautiful day that day.
Keith had been given his money andwas planning to buy a geometry set
for school, so he lived inthe village of oving Dean. As I
said, and if you are fromthat area and I'm not pronouncing it right,
I do apologize on that, butthat's how I'm reading it, That's
how I'm saying it. So Ovingdanonly had a small local shop that didn't
(04:15):
stock things like geometry sets and stufflike that, so it would mean that
he would need to go to anothervillage or another town to go and buy
the set. So he left ataround three pm his home and headed off
to the village of Wooding Dean.Now this was a short walk of about
one and a half miles away.Looking on Google, it says it would
take approximately thirty six minutes to walkthis area, and it would take him
(04:39):
over a bridal way which would goall the way across and then into this
village of Wooding Dean. This areathat he would cross over was known locally
as Happy Valley. That would takehim near Brighton, almost like right on
the coast. You could look outand see the coast is a gorgeous area.
It would have been a lovely walkday because it was such good good
(05:00):
weather. At around four point fifteen, a sixteen year old girl was walking
her dog. Now she was astudent at the private girls school which is
just on just in that area,and the private girls school was called Roe
Deine and it overlooks the English Channel, so you can actually see the sea
from the school. As she approachedthe Bridalway with her dog, which I
(05:23):
think was a black and white Colliefrom what I can remember, she saw
the body of a young boy insome bushes on a grassy bank just off
of the bridalway. As I understandit, it looked like the body had
just been rolled down a bank anda sort of landed haphazardly in a bush,
so she could see from the bridewaydown into the bush where the body
(05:44):
was. The body was the bodyof a young boy and it was heavily
bloodstained. Now she she knew itwas a child because he was wearing a
Brighton Hove and Sussex Grammar school uniform. It was a Saturday, so I'm
not quite sure why the kid wasstill dressed in school uniform because it was
(06:04):
a weekend, but anyway, that'sby the bye. The girl was obviously
very very upset. It was nota very nice scene to come across,
so she ran back to school toraise the alarm or back home, I've
read too different. Back home andback to school. Being a Saturday,
I'm not sure if anybody was atthe school, but it might have been
that something was on at the schooland that's why she ran back to the
(06:27):
school. I also think they werebored in. It was a private girls
school, so I also believe theywere borders there. So it meaned that
they would be staff on site anyway, even on a weekend, which would
mean if she's running back home,that means she's gone back to school.
Okay, that would make sense forit, that would make sense. Yeah,
So police obviously were on scene veryquickly. They cornered off the area
and they started a full investigation.Obviously, this is on first look at
(06:50):
this a heavily blooded child. Itwasn't sure straight away if it was a
murder investigation, but on closer inspectionit was quite obvious that it was.
It was confirmed that the little boywas Keith Lyon. Now he was fully
clothed, but his pockets had beenpulled out as if they had been searched.
So you know, like when youpull the linings of your pocket out,
(07:11):
pockets out, Sorry, you'd getthat like funnily kind of look.
His money was missing, his keyswere also missing. Obviously, as I
mentioned, he was heavily bloodstained andlater at the post mortem they would conclude
that he had had eleven stab woundsto his stomach, back and chest.
There was no sign of a murderweapon at the scene, but the pathologist
(07:32):
had said that it was believed tohave been a long bladed, sharp serrated
knife. Okay, the scale ofthe police investigation was huge. I mean
it was absolutely massive. They setup an incident room nearby at a local
primary school and officers and dogs wereused to search the whole of the local
(07:53):
area like they went in on this. It was. They had so many
officers and search in every where.They searched homes, they searched the schools,
they searched the whole area, likethe whole Happy Valley area. They
used dogs. They also had thismassive it was. It's huge. It's
like a it's a magnetic mind detectorfrom the local I think it's the Army
(08:16):
camp Oldamaston Camp. And this machinewas capable of taking out metal from under
the ground. It would draw themetal up through the earth. So they
use this to comb like the localarea to see if somebody had like thrown
the knife or anything key, hiskeys or anything that it would drag it
back to this magnet. Unfortunately,there was there was nothing that the magnet
(08:41):
managed to find. A few daysafter Keith's murder, a group of boys
were playing in their school, whichis a local boys school. I believe
fitz Herbert's school is a normal kindof I would say state school. It's
the normal school that the local kidswould go to. So it's not a
grammar it's not a posh school,it's not a boarding school. They were
actually playing in the school grounds andthey found a blood stained serrated knife with
(09:05):
a broken tip. Now this thisknife had like a white handle, and
it was I don't know, Idon't know if you have I don't know
if you do it anymore over there. I don't think we do it so
much here. But back when Iwas a kid, sometimes, like on
like cereal packets, say, oron like washing machine packet, or like
with washing powder packets, you couldcollect certain things. They would give you
certain things away, and every timeyou bought them, hopefully you would get
(09:26):
like a different one or the sameones in a set. So this knife
was actually a steak knife, whichwas part of a set that you could
collect through these washing powder boxes,so like mum could every time she did
the washing and bought a new one, she could collect like a set of
six steak knives, which I thoughtwas just like mind blown that they give
away knives, i know, withwashing power. Yeah, with washing powder.
(09:50):
So like yeah, and they did, and it was it was it
was a knife that was you know, vastly produced. It wasn't a special
you know, somebody's special set,and it was something that a lot of
household actually had on this knife.When they did the test in it actually
did match the blood of Keith KeithLyons. So we now know that we've
got the murder weapon. So wasthis in the same area as where his
(10:15):
body was found. No, it'sit's not too far away, but it's
not right right where his body wasfound. But it was found on the
school grounds of the boys school,of the boys' school. Yeah, okay,
so like three schools in the area. You've got the girls' school Rowdine,
You've got fitz Herbert, which isthe boys' school, which is the
(10:35):
local school for like boys and girls, and then you've got the grammar school,
which is the school that la Keithwent to. So he got through,
and then you've got primary schools andstuff like that, all of these
kids ages that is, there's likethe secondary school, so it would be
from eleven upwards. I keep thinkingabout this whole, like his pockets were
(10:56):
were you know, pulled out asin like someone rub machine trying to You
wouldn't imagine like a twelve year oldhaving having money, right, No,
I mean you wouldn't if you're ifdriving past or walking past, you know,
a twelve year old, You're notlike, oh, I'm gonna rob
this person, because this is agood rob. I mean, chances are
they're not gonna have money. Yeah. So to me this this sounds like
(11:20):
this is someone that knew that hehad something on them. That's what it
sounded like to me to start with. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah,
because like you say, you wouldn'texpect a small child to have money,
and he he did have money onhim that day, of course, right,
yeah, but hold that thought.Okay, okay, So the police
(11:41):
decided that they would stage a reconstructionso that but it would not be feasible
to have a small child lie coveredin blood in bushes, you know,
for this to happen. So whatthey did was they went to a local
tailor's and borrowed a wax dummy,dressed it in the identical clothes to what
Keith was wearing that day, andthen staged a reconstruction to see if anybody
(12:01):
would remember this. Now, don'tforget, this is nineteen sixty seven,
so this is BEFORENA, the DNAthat we know now, the DNA processing,
before all of this happened. Thiswas a long time ago, and
the same with reconstructions. Reconstructions werevery different back then. This reconstruction worked
really well though, because two femalewitnesses came forward to say that they saw
(12:26):
four boys fighting near some bushes onthe Bridalway the afternoon of the murder.
They later said that later on thatafternoon they saw three of the US running
across nearby fields. A bus driveralso came forward to say that he was
the driver of the number three busand he had picked up two young males
(12:46):
at Vine's Cross, and that theyhad gone to the nearby Whitehawk estate and
got off at the garage, appearingto be in a very very agitated state.
So these two boys talked non stateto each other, hushed, hushed,
talking the whole of the trip.It's not a very long trip between
the two, but I would sayit's maybe a good ten minutes on the
(13:09):
bus. And apparently he said thatthey were in hushed conversation and he remembered
them because they looked so agitated.Now ever, suggested that people or whoever
was there at the scene, orwhoever it actually killed Keith, would have
been covered in a lot of blood. There was a lot of blood,
and police found that there was evidenceat a local memorial cemetery that somebody viewed
(13:35):
one of the public toilets in thecemetery. Now this was Lawn Memorial Park.
When the police went in there,they had found that somebody had been
in the public toilets cleaning blood offof themselves. They had obviously done this
in a hurry, because the bloodhad splashed all up the walls as the
person was using the sink and thewater. Because of the location of where
(13:58):
the toilets were in the village,the police believed that the person that used
them would be somebody local, becauseyou wouldn't necessarily know that those public toilets
are where they are if you weren'tlocal to the area. So that gave
police quite a good idea that possiblythe perpetrator or perpetrators of this were local
(14:22):
people. Now, there were twotypes of blood found in that toilet,
one of which was Keith's. Theother has not been discovered, but there
were bloody fingerprints which they also tookfrom the toilet. Okay, strange,
(14:43):
isn't it now? A few weekslater, the police received some letters sent
to the local police station, handwrittenletters sent to the local police station saying
and I've read through them, andone of them sort of says, I
know who murdered Keith Lyon, andthen another one said I know who murdered
him, but I can't tell becauseI might get a knife in my back.
(15:05):
And there was no postmark to these. These were hand I think they
were hand delivered. As far asI could read online, I think they
were hand delivered. And the writingthat I read it wasn't very It wasn't
really neat writing. It was capitalizedfrom what I could see, and it
wasn't very neat. So the policesort of weren't sure whether this was a
(15:26):
hoax because there was nothing in theletters that was of any notable difference to
what had been you know, publishedlocally or what had been let out to
the public basically, So they kindof took those they kind of took those
letters with a pinch of salt,because they there was nothing really, I
mean, had they have said,oh, you know, it happened here
(15:46):
and it was at this time andI was present, and it would be
a bit different, but there wasnothing in them that would make you think
that this person knew more than whatthey were saying. See, I don't
know what would be the purpose ofdoing something that saying I know who did
it and just having just been veryvague. I mean a lot of times
like it, let's say it wassomeone who actually committed the murder or had
(16:08):
been a witness, you would youwould think that either the two reasons would
be either to a torment right thepolice and the families, or be you
feel bad about it so you wantto you want to try to help,
but in sending a letter which isabsolutely no help at all. Yeah,
(16:30):
it's you know, you're sending lettersno no hope at all, or no
help at all. It's like,well, what's the point then, So
it's kind of like, I don'tknow, I would I would I mean,
I think I would be take avery hesitant, hesitant approach towards it.
If I, you know, ifI were police, especially if there's
nothing that nothing that really significant youknow, that significant in it, or
(16:52):
there's nothing that indicates, okay,this person is telling the truth. Yeah,
yeah, there's nothing. There's nothinglike there's no sort of key evidence
that they've put in there that youkind of think, oh, yeah,
this person must have been un sceneor you know, this person must know
that because of you know this reason. There's nothing really it was just literally
(17:14):
I know who killed him. Ican't tell because I might get a knife
in my back. That was it. There's nothing like, right that nothing
nothing, let me say, nothingthat was released. Nothing was released to
the public. If there's any otherthings in the letters they didn't say,
that's all they said. Or itcould be a youth, right, that
sounds like very It almost comes acrossas being a childish thing to do.
(17:38):
You know, I agree. Aletter like that, Yeah, where you
know, maybe you can't really comprehendor grasp like what you should do or
can do, or like what thisletter is going to do. I mean,
maybe you know, maybe they justdays felt bad and they just wanted
to send him like, you know, I know what happened, and you
(18:00):
know, I wish I could help, but I'm scared. Yes, it
does sound like something a youth wouldsend. I agree, I agree with
you. I mean there was acoroner's court in question into Keith's death.
Now, this was in December nineteensixty seven. Despite all the hard work
of the police and the investigators,the investigation was still at a standstill.
Police had taken six thousand finger andpalm prints of local kids I think between
(18:26):
the ages of like fourteen and twentyone. They had carried out more than
seventy five thousand house to house inquiries, and they had taken over two thousand
written statements after interviewing like two thousandkids from more than fifteen schools in the
area. So you can see thatthe police's why would they start at fourteen?
(18:49):
I'm not sure unless they've got intelligenceld them. Yeah, but if
it was a thirteen year old ora twelve year old that that was involved
or had done y, yeah,obviously you're not going to have any matches
because yeah, you're saying, okay, we're going to go fourteen to twenty
one. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why it's such a
(19:15):
It's such a strange age to startwith, isn't it. Yeah, I
mean unless there is very specific informationthat they have, like Okay, we
know it's not no one under theage of fourteen, but what information could
they have which would which would allowthem to be completely sure that's the case.
Yeah, I'm not sure, butthat's how they started. And I
(19:37):
also read some I read some somewords from some people locally saying that they
had the parents had to give permissionfor these fingerprints and handprints to be taken.
So some parents wouldn't give permission fortheir children to have their hands done.
So it's not like they fingerprinted everysingle person in the area. They
fingerprinted as many as they could.So there are children and there are youth
(20:00):
that didn't have their fingerprints taken.I mean locally people were talking about likely
suspects. So this is something likeyou just brought up. Why would they
start at a certain age. Therewas a lot of local I say gossip,
but not really gossip him, buta lot of local talking and guesses
about likely suspects in the case.But of course that was just hearsay.
(20:22):
That was just local people Chinese whisperingabout what was going on. There had
been some arrests in the case,but the suspects had been cleared and the
coroner's jury actually returned a verdict ofmurder by person or person's unknown, and
Keith's case subsequently then went cold.So a year passed and on the first
year anniversary of the murder of Keith, his family offered the reward of one
(20:45):
thousand pounds. Now, back innineteen sixty seven, one thousand pounds was
a lot of money. I mean'sstill a lot of money now, but
as far as rewards go, obviouslywe're now used to thousands and thousands of
pounds in reward, but back thenit was one thousand pounds from information leading
to the arrest and conviction of Keith'skiller. Unfortunately, no new evidence despite
(21:06):
that was brought to light. Therewas nothing. There was a glimmer of
hope though in nineteen seventy four,Okay Detective Superintendent Jim Marshall of Sussex Police
announced that new evidence had come tolight. The actual evidence that had come
to light wasn't wasn't publicized it orstill remains a mystery now they still haven't
publicized it. It meant that onceagain, now the investigation was back open
(21:30):
again and there was a lot morepeople interviewed. Things started moving again and
some people were reinterviewed about Keith's murder. Now I submitted a freedom of information
request on this, to which Iwas told again like we did, like
we've heard before, that they wouldonly release a certain amount of information to
(21:51):
me because there were still there arestill people alive that this could upset,
which is their standard kind of phrasethat they use, that there asked people
that still could be to this case, a're upset and Peter's brother, Sorry,
Keith's brother, Peter is actually stillalive today, and I have actually
read in an article that he saidhe he is the person that's still alive.
(22:11):
He is the person that's hurt bythis. He is happy for people
to look into this because he wantsresolution for his brother. But of course
the office will not release any moreinformation other than that we already have.
So I did try, but unfortunatelynot happening. So in two thousand and
(22:32):
two, So we're going now fromthe glimmer of hope in seventy four to
two thousand and two. Whilst cleaningthe evidence room, at a police station.
The evidence from Keith's case was foundin an evidence box or evidence bag.
This included the knife, the clothesthat Keith's wearing that day, a
cigarette butt and a blood stained tissue. Now, following this discovery and what
(22:56):
I guess was further testing because nowwe obviously have the DNA testing in two
thousand and two a much much betterrate than we had in the eighties,
which was still twenty or twelve yearsafter he was murdered, they were able
to retest. They retested it andtwo further men were arrested in connection with
(23:18):
Keith's murder. Now, unfortunately,after four months, police then confirmed again
that these two men were no longersuspects and were now free to go.
Again. They didn't actually say whothese men were. We don't know.
The names were never released. Socrime Watch UK made quite a few appeals
on behalf of Keith's family and youcan watch them. You can go onto
YouTube and you can find them.They are on there and you can actually
(23:41):
see the reconstructions that crime Watch UKdid. They in the mid two thousands,
three men in their fifties were arrestedon suspicion of murder, but They
were later released and eliminated from theinquiry. Again, none of the men
were ever named in the public domain, no record of what led to their
(24:02):
arrests, and in the Crime WatchUK appeals, it's so sad. You
can hear Keith's mum and she talksabout how they found out it was Keith,
and oh, honestly, it's heartbreaking, it's horrible. It's so sad.
You can just see, you cansee how broken she is when she
(24:25):
talks about it. And it's reallysad to hear it in her own words,
you know, because we all knowthat, you know, losing your
child in such a horrific way mustbe, you know, completely awful.
But to actually listen to a mumsit there and tell you exactly how it
was was actually, really it wasreally upsetting. It was awful. Yeah,
(24:52):
that's really oh man, Yeah,it's horrible. She describes, you
know, it is it is shedescribes in it, like how they found
out and how Keith's dad came home, how the police had gone to him
and then he came home, andhow they as a family, you know,
then dealt with the aftermath of itand kind of things that you don't
(25:14):
really think about at the time,things that they didn't think about at the
time, and it was really sad, actually it was. I mean,
police obviously have some kind of DNAevidence. Now we know that that could
link the murderer to the scene.We know that, so we know that
Keith's murderer or murderers could not havecommitted any further crimes, which they would
have had to have their samples taken. So we know from nineteen ninety five
(25:37):
when the DNA database was properly infull swing. We know that they haven't
committed any crimes since then because wehave fingerprints in blood, We also have
DNA from the toilet. We alsohave the DNA from what they found at
the scene, which was later retested, so we know that whoever it is
hasn't committed anymore since then. Okay, well that we know of well that
(26:07):
that they've been arrested for, sowe know that they've not committed stuff and
been charged for it. So it'snot somebody that's in prison already or has
been in the system. We knowthat. We know as far as far
as that they haven't committed any othercrimes anywhere else because there's no DNA link
in them to other crime scenes oranything. So that's that's the one thing
we do know. So where hewas found, was that where he was
(26:30):
murdered or was that just a placewhere he was dumped. They believe that
was where he was murdered police,But so basically police believe that Keith was
attacked on his way to buy thegeometry set. There were no geometry sets
found in the area. Nobody hadcome forward, so their kid had come
home with a new geometry set thatthey didn't know. Possibly they did,
(26:51):
but police believe that he was attackedon the way there and that his them
o was a robbery which then graduatedmurder. There was no sign of the
sexual assault, no attempts to hidethe body. So the question was why
murder him if it was just arobbery to take his money, Like,
why did you have to murder him? Did the situation get out of hand?
(27:14):
Was he fighting back too much?Could the people or person not gain
control of him? Did they killhim because he could identify them. Another
path that police mentioned was that hewas seen as in quotes, a posh
boy from a posh school. Sowould it be that this is a local
rivalry because the kids saw what uniformhe was wearing, they would know that
(27:37):
he would come from a house thathas money, so chances are he would
have money on him, or awatch or a you know something else.
So could it be that he wasapproached by other youths that knew from from
the uniform that this kid was aposh kid from the posh school? Right?
I guess what I'm confused about isyou know when we talk about was
(28:00):
it roadin school? Yeah? Thegirls school? Yeah, so where was
where was the brideway in in inin you know, to where the school
was, because it seems like tome, so the school is would be
the opposite direction of where he wouldhave been walking. So does that mean
(28:22):
that that the girl that found her, that found him the brideaway would have
been like above, so it wouldhave been it's about Yeah, it looks
so not towards the English channel,but towards the other side. So I
guess, so it looks over itlooks over the bridealway, and it looks
(28:44):
from the school. You can lookin the distance and see the channel,
the English channel, so it's gotgood views from there. So yes,
it was above, So she wouldhave walked down onto the bride away from
school. Okay, okay, hmmyeah. I mean to me, I
feel like this is definitely like we'dbe looking at a youth. I just
(29:06):
I don't know, it, justdon't. I don't see an adult like
seeing a twelve year old kid.And I mean we know that there are
there are really sick people out therewho see a vunderable person and will you
know, have yeah, attack them, right, But the thought that or
knowing that they had went through itspockets and souls money. I don't see
(29:30):
an adult going, you know,in their head going okay, let's see
what you know, how much moneythey have on them? Because I agree
they you know, like I said, most of the time you see a
twelve year old, they're not goingto have anything on them, especially in
nineteen sixty seven. I mean,it's not like it's now where you know,
twelve year old is going to bewalking around with an iPhone or whatever
in nineteen sixty seven. What's thechances that a kid is going to have
(29:52):
anything of value on them? Exactly? So I'm the same I'm leaning towards
I'm leaning towards this is you,And I do like the idea that the
police say that he's very identifiable bythe clothing that he's wearing. He's wearing
a posh school uniform, so theyknow what school he goes to, and
you know what kind of kids goto that school. You know that they're
(30:14):
from families that can afford to payfor school, so you know that he's
from a posh a posh house.The other thing, there was one more
thing with this case which I findreally strange. Okay. In two thousand
and six, it was announced thatpolice were looking for a family people that
had emigrated to Canada with their teenageson shortly after the murder. Now,
(30:37):
I couldn't find any names locally whenI was looking in and out of different
forums and different newspaper articles, andthere was nothing to say who the family
were. And I understand that policewere unable to trace this family following the
emigration. Weird, Okay, SoI think that's very so strange and very
(31:00):
telling, because locally, surely peopleknow who that family are. Surely they
know the names. Yeah apparently,yeah, yeah, more more than likely,
Like, oh, my family ismoving to Canada. I mean you
have to know who that is,right, yeah? Yeah, So surely
somebody local could have told the policea surname or something, but police were
(31:23):
unable to trace the family. Now, more than fifty years after Keith's murder,
his brother Peter obviously is still desperateto know what happened, and he
spoke to the Observer newspaper in twentynineteen because in twenty nineteen police were told
that a local man who had becomean alcoholic had confessed his involvement in keith
(31:48):
killing to his mother. Now,his mum had told a health worker in
confidence that her son had confessed thisto her and she didn't know what to
do. Unfortunately, this man hasnow died. Peter says in the article,
like perhaps that this man had becomean alcoholic because he couldn't deal with
(32:09):
what he had done. He couldn'tdeal with the fact that he was part
of something that ended Keith's life.And the person who passed the information that
the mum who passed the information toSussex Police about this or the mom did
it in confidence sorry to the healthworker, and the health worker felt compelled
(32:29):
to pass this on which I'm reallyglad that they did because the hope now
that is if this man's involvement canbe confirmed his associates from school, going
back talking to teachers or other kidsat the school. If he hung around
with a couple of other kids allthe time, we might then get the
names of his school, like hisschool associates, and then start to build
(32:52):
a picture of who these kids mightbe. Because we have witnesses saying that
these three kids were fighting with aboy, that two of them were running
across a field together. The busdrivers sees he's agitated kids looking really worried
and really scared and really vividly talkingto each other, animatedly talking. So
(33:14):
the picture is building up that thisis perhaps, you know, kids that
attacked Keith. They've taken whatever wasin his pockets and his keys, that's
all that was missing, and they'vesort of gone home. So if this
guy has become an alcoholic because ofthe demons that he's got from that,
let's hope that he can be identifiedproperly with police and that that can help
(33:37):
them lead to lead to arrest.But sadly, Keith's father, Ken died
in nineteen ninety one, and Keith'smother, Vowder, also died in nineteen
ninety sorry. In two thousand andfive and they both died, obviously never
knowing who was responsible for Keith's death. They are actually buried very close to
Keith, which is probably a comfortfor Peter, who now lives in New
(33:58):
Zealand. As of today, Keith'scase still remains unsolved and we still don't
know who was responsible. All right, Well, who are the Chierhead bullies
in eighteen sixty seven in the area. Surely the kids, yeah, surely
the adults now must know who theywere at school. They must have heard
(34:19):
about Keith's murder. They must knowthat. You know there were bullies at
the school. I'll tell you whatI did see. There's something really strange
on YouTube. There is this videoof a man called paranormal Paul. Okay,
he actually walks the bridle Path atnight with this like it looks I
don't even know what it is.I'm not I don't really know much about
this. But he has this likemobile phone that he's video in and it's
(34:43):
like this equipment that claims to detectthe sound of spirits, right, and
I couldn't understand a word of whatthese spirits were saying. But in the
he actually puts words captions up andhe's going like, oh, Keith,
you know your brother misses you.We need to know what happened, and
then you'll hear like and then it'llbe like flash up on the screen and
it'll be they stabbed me. Andthen he'll go, Okay, Keith,
(35:07):
are the other spirits? You needto leave us alone. We need to
let Keith speak, and then itgoes back again. He says, Keith,
you know what happens, and thenyou hear again and it's like very
bad comes up on the screen.Honestly, it's the most bizarre thing I've
ever seen. I've never come acrossa case where I've had anything like this
attached to it. But if youwant to have a bizarre five minutes by
(35:28):
all means, go on YouTube.Look for Paranormal Paul and look for Keith
Lyon and you can actually see theBridle Path, though it does give you
a good like a video view ofthe Bridle Path. But okay, honestly,
it's so weird that the whole Idon't know what the device is.
It looks like it looks like aniPhone, but apparently he talks to spirits
and they talk back to him insome language that is not English, there
(35:52):
has to you know, I meanlike this seems like I don't want to
say He's like it should be obvious, like who is involved. I mean
no, I believe I think thesame. I guarantee you the mom of
of whoever you know, one ofthe kids knows it was him, because
(36:13):
taking a steak knife like that,having something missing like that, a mom
knows, right, Yeah, amom would know, like, hey,
where did my state? Because eventhough this is like something that you would
get in a giveaway, you knowhow many knives you do in your cupboard?
Yeah, you know, yeah,exactly, especially if it's a same
(36:34):
you know, yeah, and youknow if your kid's a shithead, right,
I mean you know that. Ohman. The other thing, See,
the thing that really compelled me aboutthis case is I believe this case
is one hundred percent solvable, onehundred percent because kids that went to school
in that school at the same timeas Keith would know who you know other
(37:00):
schools locally, you know the kidsthat kind of stick out. So there's
kids from that you know, there'skids from the girls school, there's kids
from the boys' school that would knowthe other local kids of the same age.
So I know that there is somebodyout there that knows the rumors from
(37:20):
their school, because that kind ofstuff gets out. If if somebody's got
involved in something when you're a kidand they've had a fight somewhere or they've
stolen something, it gets round tothe other kids. You know that that
guy from class whatever three B lastweek robbed stuff out of super drug.
You know that when you're a kid, it's the kind of stuff that gets
talked about in the playgrounds and stuffcan't keep their mouths shut, no,
(37:45):
And so I know one hundred percentthat there are people that remember when they
were at school what the rumors were, and they need to come forward to
police and to say, look,when I was at school, these were
the rumors. These were the kidswe talked about. You need to look
at them because the police haven't gotmagic ones. They need help from people.
(38:07):
And if you don't know, youcan submit intelligence to the police without
having your because of data protection,your details cannot be passed on to anybody
else. So you can submit anonymousfeedback and intelligence to police forces one hundred
(38:30):
percent anonymous. No one can knowthat you did that. There are there
are things in place to make surethat your identity is not known even within
the police, it will be thatit will be protected so that only certain
officers from certain areas can look atthat detail, and you're only allowed to
(38:50):
look at it if you have policingreason to do so, So your identity
is protected. If you have informationon a case like this, any case,
that one thing that you think isreally insignificant could be that the one
thing that can give officers a wholenew avenue to go down. Is so
(39:13):
important that if you see something thatyou say something, because this could this
could actually give this little boys story, you know, a conclusion. It
could help his brother find out whathappened. It's not going to make things
better. There'll be no closure assuch, because I hate that. It
gives you closure, it doesn't.It closes a chapter and allows you to
(39:37):
start another chapter. So yeah,but to have that and not understand what
happened to your brother, to yourson, to your friend, to not
know the what happened is the thehardest thing. Yep, absolutely right.
(39:58):
So yeah, if you went tothat school in that area, or you
know someone that did, get chattingabout it, you know, get that
stuff out there because it's important andmaybe one day I'll be able to do
an update and say we know whathappened to Keith. Yeah, I don't
even need to give you the names, but we know what happened, and
(40:19):
we know you know, we knowwhat happened to him. His brother deserves
to have His brother deserves that phonecall one hundred percent, he really does.
And I hate and ah, Isaw that the picture of the picture
that we have of Keith is lovely. His little face. He's such a
cute kid. He's so cute,and he doesn't deserve he didn't deserve that.
(40:42):
So sad. So that's this week'scase FORUL that well, thank you
for that, and hopefully one daywe can have good news about Keith.
And yeah, in this case,I hope so. So before we get
into our dumb criminal, I justwant to give you this week's business.
We need to say hello to Matthewfrom New Zealand sent me a really lovely
(41:02):
message on Instagram. It's lovely totalk to him. I hope now that
you've caught up on all the episodes, because he said he was catching up
on all our old episodes and he'snoticed the fact that when we very first
started in the beginning, we didn'tdisagree on things. It's like we were
frightened to disagree, whereas now wehave a good old, a good old
ding dong about stuff. So yeah, that is probably true. We obviously
(41:24):
know each other so much better thanwe did in the beginning, so we're
not frightened to upset each other anymorebecause it doesn't really happen. We have
good, healthy discussions instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't happen
often. I mean I think alot of times we're on the same page.
Yeah, even when we do disagree, I mean, it's we're still
friends civil. Yeah. So hegave us five stars on Spotify. So
(41:45):
Matthew from New Zealand, we loveyou. Thank you. I want to
say an absolutely huge, massive welldone to our friend the Celia athlete.
She completed the London Marathon today.She is a legend. Well done to
her. Unfortunately I wasn't able togo and watch her in London this weekend
because I'd love to have gone andsaid hello, she's come all the way
over from America obviously to run it. So well done, You're amazing.
(42:09):
It's a who huge deal. It'sa huge deal. She gives me tips
on running and stuff. We've alsogot Crime Con Scotland happening next weekend in
Glasgow and there will be a lotof really really good stuff going on.
Unfortunately we can't make it, butyou can still go along. It's very
(42:30):
interactive, it's very very good.It's very up close and personal clime Cron
Glasgow, so make sure you getyour tickets if you're in the area.
It's well worth doing. There arelots of podcasters there. There are a
lot of really good speakers this year. I do believe Captain will be there
in Glasgow, so if you're atrue crime garage supporter and you want to
(42:52):
meet the Captain, it's not asbusy as London. So if you want
to meet him, shake his handand have a beer with him, by
all means, got there, I'msure, or see if he looks like
you think he'd look, because wellthat's always really funny. I like to
know what people think. So butwe will both be in London in September.
There are still chances to get yourtickets for Crime Con London September twentieth,
(43:13):
twenty first and twenty second. Youcan just go to the website Crimecon
Dot co dot uk get yourself,choose the tickets that you want. There
are payment plans, you don't haveto do it all in one go.
You can use crime Pedia as yourcode for checkout and that will give you
ten percent off as well. Andwe'll be there doing our thing as usual.
Cocktail in hand. Yeah, talkingtrue crime, Yes, so you
(43:36):
will. I've got new shoes ofcrime Con London. Anybody that's been before
that I've seen knows I love mycrime Con shoes and I have new crime
Con shoes this year and I lovethem. They may or may not have
body parts on them, not real. Are they more comfortable? Are they
more comfortable than some of the othershoes you've worn? No, Morvin,
(43:58):
So they are called cherry shoes fairenough? Yeah so yes, new shoes
for London. So look out forthose. It's very important. Yes,
very good, thank you. Sowith that, do you want to do
a dumb criminal? Let's go.Let's go, Hey, captain stupid poopy
(44:22):
pants, use a dummy and usea piece of sheet. I love it
when he says that. Yeah,so Cherry, this is this is not
the first time we've had a dumbcriminal like this. Okay, and I
don't think. I think anytime thishappens we need to bring it up because
this these might be the dumbest ofthe dumb. Okay, okay, yeah,
(44:44):
yeah. So a Indiana woman isfacing narcotics narcotics charges after she called
nine to one one to report purchasingan inferior batch a methamphetamine and they say
that she wanted to file charges againsther drug dealer. Oh please tell me
(45:04):
that you have audio of like ourfriend Brandon taking this nine one one call.
That would be the ice on thecake for this story. That would
amazing, That would be brilliant.Not I wish I do. I wish
you see if I need to seeif I can find it, but I
do not have the audio. Iwish I could, though, so in
a as a legend of probably probablywill cause Affidavid Sarah Harris, who was
thirty four years old, twice madean open line call to the police emergency
(45:30):
number, which prompted an officer tovisit her residence to ensure that everything was
okay. So she she called twicenine one one, but you know,
wow, did never say anything toThat is life and life and death,
people. Nine one is the lifeand death if you want to report a
bad batch of methamphetamine, call thenon emergency number, Yeah number one Yeah
(45:52):
Now. During the conversation with thepolice, Captain, Harris declared that her
myth was not what it was supposedto be. Drug left her felt The
drug left her feeling as though shewas going to have a heart attack.
Harris said she had snorted a lineof the math and felt something different and
it touched her skin and nostrils.She did now. She noted that that
(46:16):
she and and a friend had smokeda bowl of normal math before she had
obtained the math that led her tocall nine to one one Now, apparently
believing that the local sheriff operated abetter legal better illegal business bureau, requested
that the drug be tested. Shealso declared that she wanted she yes.
(46:39):
She also declares she wanted to turnin turn the person in who provided her
the math. While speaking to thepolice at her home, she made well,
she made the big mistake of handingover the meth that she had talked
about. Uh now. The contestof the small Baggaie, which carried a
red pig design, was field testedand was positive for being methmphetamine. As
(47:04):
a result of Harris providing the narcoticsevidence h a criminal. Uh. She
ended up being charged for meth possession, which is a Class six felony and
carries a maximum of thirty month prisonterm. Excuse me, officer, but
can you please tell tell my drugdealer off? Because not good enough stuff?
(47:27):
So please please sort that out forme. Oh great, okay,
yeah, just wait there, ma'am. Well I just sat that out for
you. I'm really sorry that yourdrugs aren't aren't right? Oh it's crazy,
that is crazy. What She's obviouslyhigh when she did that, so
obviously so there's a criminal. Ohyeah, one, because why would why
(47:52):
would you call the police? Tellme all this information then hand it over
heression of drugs? Not good stuff? Please take it away. I love
that. That was brilliant, Thankyou man. Let me have you heard
about just brings real quick? Haveyou heard about the the gang that's Liverpool's
(48:17):
city center trying to steal food?Yes, particularly food being at Greggs.
I mean, do you have aGregs over there? Do people know what
Gregs is in America? Right?Okay? So so Greggs in England like
a fast food does like pastise,which I think you sometimes called pasties,
(48:37):
but pastise it does like real,real quick kind of grab and go fu.
So it would be like sausage rolls. Past these hot like like hot
stuff. They do sandwiches and coffeeand that kind of stuff. And it's
typically done by people like on theirway to work. They grab stuff like
that. So it's just like acheap, very cheap, very cheap and
cheerful as how I would describe it. Really m hm, there you go.
(49:04):
Yeah. So this gang which hasbeen done XL Gullies, the XL
Gullies has been they've been confronting peopletrying to steal their lunch. There's apparently
one of these seagulls Goals, whichis considered the top level boss said,
(49:28):
we are actually talking about seagulls.We're not talking about a real gang.
It's actually seagulls that we're talking aboutis buds. They are stealing people's lunch.
No, yeah, oh yeah,so they're stealing people's lunch. What
was it? I was just Iwas reading this here. So one person
(49:49):
crime reporter. Oh yeah, thiscrime reporter named Patty Edrich was one of
the victims. Let me just readthis. So they had just purchased a
margarite piece of slides from Gregg's andwith walking back to the office. Now,
he said that I've seen base goodswipes out of people's hands on a
regular basis walking near the town hall, but you'd never think it would happen
(50:10):
to you. Out of nowhere,this monster swooped down, beady yellow eyes
glaring and squared up, wings flapping. Now Patty had two options either throw
the pizza on the floor and surrenderit, surrender it to the hungry beast
it, which would then continue thethrowaway culture that has led to this city
(50:30):
seagull infestation, or deploy evasive tactics. So Patty ended up ducking behind their
colleague put their pizza. I haveactually seen seen seagulls rip food out of
people's hands here. I've actually seenit happen. Yeah, people that are
walking along the street that have theirfood ripped out of their hands by angry
(50:52):
seagulls. It's crazy, you know, I've called there. They are bird
bad birds, bad birds, badbirds, bad birds. So if you're
(51:14):
if you have great keep an eyeout greg the XL gullies. They might
be lurking somewhere around your neighborhood.Someone does need to do something about these
bad boys. Thank you very muchfor joining us this week. It's been
a pleasure. We hope that ifyou are in the area of where Keith's
case took took part, sorry tookyou know, happened, then you might
(51:36):
have some information, have a havea think about it, and if you
know anything, please do say something. Give Keith's brother some kind of ending
to his sad story, and wewill be back in two weeks time.
We'll see you in a fortnight andit'll be Morgan's case next time. So
for now, be nice and bye.
Welcome to crime Pedia podcast. Thisweek, I'm your host, I'm Cherry.
Hello to you, and with meas always is my true crime BFF.
It is Morgan. Hello, Cherry, how are you all good?
Thank you? Now remind me atthe end of the show, I have
some business to tell you about.So don't let me forget before we finish
the show, because I'll forget andthen the business will go out the window.
(01:10):
So I've got a good case foryou today, Morgan, You're going
to be pleased with this one.I've got a pretty good case for you.
I don't need any trigger warnings.I don't think for this case this
week, So how about you putyour feet up, sit back and let
me tell you a story. KeithLyon was a very cute twelve year old
(01:34):
boy with a cheeky face and earsthat he had not yet grown into.
He lived with his mother Vowder,his father Ken and his little brother Peter,
who was seven, in the villageof Ovingdean, which is a small
village very close to Brighton and Hovein East Sussex. They lived in a
pretty large family home and they werea very respectable family, all well liked.
On the fourth of May, nineteensixty seven, Ken was preparing to
(01:56):
play a concert at the Metropol Hotelin Brighton when police survived ask him to
speak with him. That day wouldchange the lives of the Lion family forever.
This is crime Pedia and this isthe murder of Keith Lyon. Okay
Morgan. So, Keith attended Brighton, Hove and Sussex Grammar School. I
know how much you love Brighton,so this is a Brighton based case for
(02:20):
you. He was a very giftedclassical musician and obviously his dad had musical
genes. He was a band leader. His dad was a really popular man.
Everybody knew the family in the area, and Keith was a bright student.
He enjoyed going to school. AndI don't know if the difference over
there in America, but over hereyou have like your normal public schools that
(02:43):
everybody goes to, like your normalschools. Then you have like grammar schools
and private schools. So a grammarschool would be at the end when I
was a kid. I don't knowif it's still the same now, but
when I was a kid, whenyou turned like the last year of primary
school, so say like ten,age ten to eleven, you would take
some exams called the eleven plus,and when you take the eleven plus,
(03:05):
if you scored high enough on it, you would be able to then apply
for grammar school, which is aposher school than the normal kind of like
normal state school kind of thing.If some kids went to private schools and
boarding schools and stuff like that,but a grammar school was like a slightly
more gifted school. When I wasa kid, so I did pass my
eleven plus, but I didn't goto grammar school because Grammar school was an
(03:29):
all girls school in my area,and I did not want to go to
an all girls school, so Ipassed up that opportunity, of course,
not of course, not, ofcourse. So on the fourth of May
in nineteen sixty seven, it wasa day that Peter and Keith got paid
their pocket money. So they werepaid three of four shillings, which is
equivalent to around three pounds in today'smoney. The boys were very excited to
(03:53):
go shop in and spend their money. It was a beautiful day that day.
Keith had been given his money andwas planning to buy a geometry set
for school, so he lived inthe village of oving Dean. As I
said, and if you are fromthat area and I'm not pronouncing it right,
I do apologize on that, butthat's how I'm reading it, That's
how I'm saying it. So Ovingdanonly had a small local shop that didn't
(04:15):
stock things like geometry sets and stufflike that, so it would mean that
he would need to go to anothervillage or another town to go and buy
the set. So he left ataround three pm his home and headed off
to the village of Wooding Dean.Now this was a short walk of about
one and a half miles away.Looking on Google, it says it would
take approximately thirty six minutes to walkthis area, and it would take him
(04:39):
over a bridal way which would goall the way across and then into this
village of Wooding Dean. This areathat he would cross over was known locally
as Happy Valley. That would takehim near Brighton, almost like right on
the coast. You could look outand see the coast is a gorgeous area.
It would have been a lovely walkday because it was such good good
(05:00):
weather. At around four point fifteen, a sixteen year old girl was walking
her dog. Now she was astudent at the private girls school which is
just on just in that area,and the private girls school was called Roe
Deine and it overlooks the English Channel, so you can actually see the sea
from the school. As she approachedthe Bridalway with her dog, which I
(05:23):
think was a black and white Colliefrom what I can remember, she saw
the body of a young boy insome bushes on a grassy bank just off
of the bridalway. As I understandit, it looked like the body had
just been rolled down a bank anda sort of landed haphazardly in a bush,
so she could see from the bridewaydown into the bush where the body
(05:44):
was. The body was the bodyof a young boy and it was heavily
bloodstained. Now she she knew itwas a child because he was wearing a
Brighton Hove and Sussex Grammar school uniform. It was a Saturday, so I'm
not quite sure why the kid wasstill dressed in school uniform because it was
(06:04):
a weekend, but anyway, that'sby the bye. The girl was obviously
very very upset. It was nota very nice scene to come across,
so she ran back to school toraise the alarm or back home, I've
read too different. Back home andback to school. Being a Saturday,
I'm not sure if anybody was atthe school, but it might have been
that something was on at the schooland that's why she ran back to the
(06:27):
school. I also think they werebored in. It was a private girls
school, so I also believe theywere borders there. So it meaned that
they would be staff on site anyway, even on a weekend, which would
mean if she's running back home,that means she's gone back to school.
Okay, that would make sense forit, that would make sense. Yeah,
So police obviously were on scene veryquickly. They cornered off the area
and they started a full investigation.Obviously, this is on first look at
(06:50):
this a heavily blooded child. Itwasn't sure straight away if it was a
murder investigation, but on closer inspectionit was quite obvious that it was.
It was confirmed that the little boywas Keith Lyon. Now he was fully
clothed, but his pockets had beenpulled out as if they had been searched.
So you know, like when youpull the linings of your pocket out,
(07:11):
pockets out, Sorry, you'd getthat like funnily kind of look.
His money was missing, his keyswere also missing. Obviously, as I
mentioned, he was heavily bloodstained andlater at the post mortem they would conclude
that he had had eleven stab woundsto his stomach, back and chest.
There was no sign of a murderweapon at the scene, but the pathologist
(07:32):
had said that it was believed tohave been a long bladed, sharp serrated
knife. Okay, the scale ofthe police investigation was huge. I mean
it was absolutely massive. They setup an incident room nearby at a local
primary school and officers and dogs wereused to search the whole of the local
(07:53):
area like they went in on this. It was. They had so many
officers and search in every where.They searched homes, they searched the schools,
they searched the whole area, likethe whole Happy Valley area. They
used dogs. They also had thismassive it was. It's huge. It's
like a it's a magnetic mind detectorfrom the local I think it's the Army
(08:16):
camp Oldamaston Camp. And this machinewas capable of taking out metal from under
the ground. It would draw themetal up through the earth. So they
use this to comb like the localarea to see if somebody had like thrown
the knife or anything key, hiskeys or anything that it would drag it
back to this magnet. Unfortunately,there was there was nothing that the magnet
(08:41):
managed to find. A few daysafter Keith's murder, a group of boys
were playing in their school, whichis a local boys school. I believe
fitz Herbert's school is a normal kindof I would say state school. It's
the normal school that the local kidswould go to. So it's not a
grammar it's not a posh school,it's not a boarding school. They were
actually playing in the school grounds andthey found a blood stained serrated knife with
(09:05):
a broken tip. Now this thisknife had like a white handle, and
it was I don't know, Idon't know if you have I don't know
if you do it anymore over there. I don't think we do it so
much here. But back when Iwas a kid, sometimes, like on
like cereal packets, say, oron like washing machine packet, or like
with washing powder packets, you couldcollect certain things. They would give you
certain things away, and every timeyou bought them, hopefully you would get
(09:26):
like a different one or the sameones in a set. So this knife
was actually a steak knife, whichwas part of a set that you could
collect through these washing powder boxes,so like mum could every time she did
the washing and bought a new one, she could collect like a set of
six steak knives, which I thoughtwas just like mind blown that they give
away knives, i know, withwashing power. Yeah, with washing powder.
(09:50):
So like yeah, and they did, and it was it was it
was a knife that was you know, vastly produced. It wasn't a special
you know, somebody's special set,and it was something that a lot of
household actually had on this knife.When they did the test in it actually
did match the blood of Keith KeithLyons. So we now know that we've
got the murder weapon. So wasthis in the same area as where his
(10:15):
body was found. No, it'sit's not too far away, but it's
not right right where his body wasfound. But it was found on the
school grounds of the boys school,of the boys' school. Yeah, okay,
so like three schools in the area. You've got the girls' school Rowdine,
You've got fitz Herbert, which isthe boys' school, which is the
(10:35):
local school for like boys and girls, and then you've got the grammar school,
which is the school that la Keithwent to. So he got through,
and then you've got primary schools andstuff like that, all of these
kids ages that is, there's likethe secondary school, so it would be
from eleven upwards. I keep thinkingabout this whole, like his pockets were
(10:56):
were you know, pulled out asin like someone rub machine trying to You
wouldn't imagine like a twelve year oldhaving having money, right, No,
I mean you wouldn't if you're ifdriving past or walking past, you know,
a twelve year old, You're notlike, oh, I'm gonna rob
this person, because this is agood rob. I mean, chances are
they're not gonna have money. Yeah. So to me this this sounds like
(11:20):
this is someone that knew that hehad something on them. That's what it
sounded like to me to start with. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah,
because like you say, you wouldn'texpect a small child to have money,
and he he did have money onhim that day, of course, right,
yeah, but hold that thought.Okay, okay, So the police
(11:41):
decided that they would stage a reconstructionso that but it would not be feasible
to have a small child lie coveredin blood in bushes, you know,
for this to happen. So whatthey did was they went to a local
tailor's and borrowed a wax dummy,dressed it in the identical clothes to what
Keith was wearing that day, andthen staged a reconstruction to see if anybody
(12:01):
would remember this. Now, don'tforget, this is nineteen sixty seven,
so this is BEFORENA, the DNAthat we know now, the DNA processing,
before all of this happened. Thiswas a long time ago, and
the same with reconstructions. Reconstructions werevery different back then. This reconstruction worked
really well though, because two femalewitnesses came forward to say that they saw
(12:26):
four boys fighting near some bushes onthe Bridalway the afternoon of the murder.
They later said that later on thatafternoon they saw three of the US running
across nearby fields. A bus driveralso came forward to say that he was
the driver of the number three busand he had picked up two young males
(12:46):
at Vine's Cross, and that theyhad gone to the nearby Whitehawk estate and
got off at the garage, appearingto be in a very very agitated state.
So these two boys talked non stateto each other, hushed, hushed,
talking the whole of the trip.It's not a very long trip between
the two, but I would sayit's maybe a good ten minutes on the
(13:09):
bus. And apparently he said thatthey were in hushed conversation and he remembered
them because they looked so agitated.Now ever, suggested that people or whoever
was there at the scene, orwhoever it actually killed Keith, would have
been covered in a lot of blood. There was a lot of blood,
and police found that there was evidenceat a local memorial cemetery that somebody viewed
(13:35):
one of the public toilets in thecemetery. Now this was Lawn Memorial Park.
When the police went in there,they had found that somebody had been
in the public toilets cleaning blood offof themselves. They had obviously done this
in a hurry, because the bloodhad splashed all up the walls as the
person was using the sink and thewater. Because of the location of where
(13:58):
the toilets were in the village,the police believed that the person that used
them would be somebody local, becauseyou wouldn't necessarily know that those public toilets
are where they are if you weren'tlocal to the area. So that gave
police quite a good idea that possiblythe perpetrator or perpetrators of this were local
(14:22):
people. Now, there were twotypes of blood found in that toilet,
one of which was Keith's. Theother has not been discovered, but there
were bloody fingerprints which they also tookfrom the toilet. Okay, strange,
(14:43):
isn't it now? A few weekslater, the police received some letters sent
to the local police station, handwrittenletters sent to the local police station saying
and I've read through them, andone of them sort of says, I
know who murdered Keith Lyon, andthen another one said I know who murdered
him, but I can't tell becauseI might get a knife in my back.
(15:05):
And there was no postmark to these. These were hand I think they
were hand delivered. As far asI could read online, I think they
were hand delivered. And the writingthat I read it wasn't very It wasn't
really neat writing. It was capitalizedfrom what I could see, and it
wasn't very neat. So the policesort of weren't sure whether this was a
(15:26):
hoax because there was nothing in theletters that was of any notable difference to
what had been you know, publishedlocally or what had been let out to
the public basically, So they kindof took those they kind of took those
letters with a pinch of salt,because they there was nothing really, I
mean, had they have said,oh, you know, it happened here
(15:46):
and it was at this time andI was present, and it would be
a bit different, but there wasnothing in them that would make you think
that this person knew more than whatthey were saying. See, I don't
know what would be the purpose ofdoing something that saying I know who did
it and just having just been veryvague. I mean a lot of times
like it, let's say it wassomeone who actually committed the murder or had
(16:08):
been a witness, you would youwould think that either the two reasons would
be either to a torment right thepolice and the families, or be you
feel bad about it so you wantto you want to try to help,
but in sending a letter which isabsolutely no help at all. Yeah,
(16:30):
it's you know, you're sending lettersno no hope at all, or no
help at all. It's like,well, what's the point then, So
it's kind of like, I don'tknow, I would I would I mean,
I think I would be take avery hesitant, hesitant approach towards it.
If I, you know, ifI were police, especially if there's
nothing that nothing that really significant youknow, that significant in it, or
(16:52):
there's nothing that indicates, okay,this person is telling the truth. Yeah,
yeah, there's nothing. There's nothinglike there's no sort of key evidence
that they've put in there that youkind of think, oh, yeah,
this person must have been un sceneor you know, this person must know
that because of you know this reason. There's nothing really it was just literally
(17:14):
I know who killed him. Ican't tell because I might get a knife
in my back. That was it. There's nothing like, right that nothing
nothing, let me say, nothingthat was released. Nothing was released to
the public. If there's any otherthings in the letters they didn't say,
that's all they said. Or itcould be a youth, right, that
sounds like very It almost comes acrossas being a childish thing to do.
(17:38):
You know, I agree. Aletter like that, Yeah, where you
know, maybe you can't really comprehendor grasp like what you should do or
can do, or like what thisletter is going to do. I mean,
maybe you know, maybe they justdays felt bad and they just wanted
to send him like, you know, I know what happened, and you
(18:00):
know, I wish I could help, but I'm scared. Yes, it
does sound like something a youth wouldsend. I agree, I agree with
you. I mean there was acoroner's court in question into Keith's death.
Now, this was in December nineteensixty seven. Despite all the hard work
of the police and the investigators,the investigation was still at a standstill.
Police had taken six thousand finger andpalm prints of local kids I think between
(18:26):
the ages of like fourteen and twentyone. They had carried out more than
seventy five thousand house to house inquiries, and they had taken over two thousand
written statements after interviewing like two thousandkids from more than fifteen schools in the
area. So you can see thatthe police's why would they start at fourteen?
(18:49):
I'm not sure unless they've got intelligenceld them. Yeah, but if
it was a thirteen year old ora twelve year old that that was involved
or had done y, yeah,obviously you're not going to have any matches
because yeah, you're saying, okay, we're going to go fourteen to twenty
one. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why it's such a
(19:15):
It's such a strange age to startwith, isn't it. Yeah, I
mean unless there is very specific informationthat they have, like Okay, we
know it's not no one under theage of fourteen, but what information could
they have which would which would allowthem to be completely sure that's the case.
Yeah, I'm not sure, butthat's how they started. And I
(19:37):
also read some I read some somewords from some people locally saying that they
had the parents had to give permissionfor these fingerprints and handprints to be taken.
So some parents wouldn't give permission fortheir children to have their hands done.
So it's not like they fingerprinted everysingle person in the area. They
fingerprinted as many as they could.So there are children and there are youth
(20:00):
that didn't have their fingerprints taken.I mean locally people were talking about likely
suspects. So this is something likeyou just brought up. Why would they
start at a certain age. Therewas a lot of local I say gossip,
but not really gossip him, buta lot of local talking and guesses
about likely suspects in the case.But of course that was just hearsay.
(20:22):
That was just local people Chinese whisperingabout what was going on. There had
been some arrests in the case,but the suspects had been cleared and the
coroner's jury actually returned a verdict ofmurder by person or person's unknown, and
Keith's case subsequently then went cold.So a year passed and on the first
year anniversary of the murder of Keith, his family offered the reward of one
(20:45):
thousand pounds. Now, back innineteen sixty seven, one thousand pounds was
a lot of money. I mean'sstill a lot of money now, but
as far as rewards go, obviouslywe're now used to thousands and thousands of
pounds in reward, but back thenit was one thousand pounds from information leading
to the arrest and conviction of Keith'skiller. Unfortunately, no new evidence despite
(21:06):
that was brought to light. Therewas nothing. There was a glimmer of
hope though in nineteen seventy four,Okay Detective Superintendent Jim Marshall of Sussex Police
announced that new evidence had come tolight. The actual evidence that had come
to light wasn't wasn't publicized it orstill remains a mystery now they still haven't
publicized it. It meant that onceagain, now the investigation was back open
(21:30):
again and there was a lot morepeople interviewed. Things started moving again and
some people were reinterviewed about Keith's murder. Now I submitted a freedom of information
request on this, to which Iwas told again like we did, like
we've heard before, that they wouldonly release a certain amount of information to
(21:51):
me because there were still there arestill people alive that this could upset,
which is their standard kind of phrasethat they use, that there asked people
that still could be to this case, a're upset and Peter's brother, Sorry,
Keith's brother, Peter is actually stillalive today, and I have actually
read in an article that he saidhe he is the person that's still alive.
(22:11):
He is the person that's hurt bythis. He is happy for people
to look into this because he wantsresolution for his brother. But of course
the office will not release any moreinformation other than that we already have.
So I did try, but unfortunatelynot happening. So in two thousand and
(22:32):
two, So we're going now fromthe glimmer of hope in seventy four to
two thousand and two. Whilst cleaningthe evidence room, at a police station.
The evidence from Keith's case was foundin an evidence box or evidence bag.
This included the knife, the clothesthat Keith's wearing that day, a
cigarette butt and a blood stained tissue. Now, following this discovery and what
(22:56):
I guess was further testing because nowwe obviously have the DNA testing in two
thousand and two a much much betterrate than we had in the eighties,
which was still twenty or twelve yearsafter he was murdered, they were able
to retest. They retested it andtwo further men were arrested in connection with
(23:18):
Keith's murder. Now, unfortunately,after four months, police then confirmed again
that these two men were no longersuspects and were now free to go.
Again. They didn't actually say whothese men were. We don't know.
The names were never released. Socrime Watch UK made quite a few appeals
on behalf of Keith's family and youcan watch them. You can go onto
YouTube and you can find them.They are on there and you can actually
(23:41):
see the reconstructions that crime Watch UKdid. They in the mid two thousands,
three men in their fifties were arrestedon suspicion of murder, but They
were later released and eliminated from theinquiry. Again, none of the men
were ever named in the public domain, no record of what led to their
(24:02):
arrests, and in the Crime WatchUK appeals, it's so sad. You
can hear Keith's mum and she talksabout how they found out it was Keith,
and oh, honestly, it's heartbreaking, it's horrible. It's so sad.
You can just see, you cansee how broken she is when she
(24:25):
talks about it. And it's reallysad to hear it in her own words,
you know, because we all knowthat, you know, losing your
child in such a horrific way mustbe, you know, completely awful.
But to actually listen to a mumsit there and tell you exactly how it
was was actually, really it wasreally upsetting. It was awful. Yeah,
(24:52):
that's really oh man, Yeah,it's horrible. She describes, you
know, it is it is shedescribes in it, like how they found
out and how Keith's dad came home, how the police had gone to him
and then he came home, andhow they as a family, you know,
then dealt with the aftermath of itand kind of things that you don't
(25:14):
really think about at the time,things that they didn't think about at the
time, and it was really sad, actually it was. I mean,
police obviously have some kind of DNAevidence. Now we know that that could
link the murderer to the scene.We know that, so we know that
Keith's murderer or murderers could not havecommitted any further crimes, which they would
have had to have their samples taken. So we know from nineteen ninety five
(25:37):
when the DNA database was properly infull swing. We know that they haven't
committed any crimes since then because wehave fingerprints in blood, We also have
DNA from the toilet. We alsohave the DNA from what they found at
the scene, which was later retested, so we know that whoever it is
hasn't committed anymore since then. Okay, well that we know of well that
(26:07):
that they've been arrested for, sowe know that they've not committed stuff and
been charged for it. So it'snot somebody that's in prison already or has
been in the system. We knowthat. We know as far as far
as that they haven't committed any othercrimes anywhere else because there's no DNA link
in them to other crime scenes oranything. So that's that's the one thing
we do know. So where hewas found, was that where he was
(26:30):
murdered or was that just a placewhere he was dumped. They believe that
was where he was murdered police,But so basically police believe that Keith was
attacked on his way to buy thegeometry set. There were no geometry sets
found in the area. Nobody hadcome forward, so their kid had come
home with a new geometry set thatthey didn't know. Possibly they did,
(26:51):
but police believe that he was attackedon the way there and that his them
o was a robbery which then graduatedmurder. There was no sign of the
sexual assault, no attempts to hidethe body. So the question was why
murder him if it was just arobbery to take his money, Like,
why did you have to murder him? Did the situation get out of hand?
(27:14):
Was he fighting back too much?Could the people or person not gain
control of him? Did they killhim because he could identify them. Another
path that police mentioned was that hewas seen as in quotes, a posh
boy from a posh school. Sowould it be that this is a local
rivalry because the kids saw what uniformhe was wearing, they would know that
(27:37):
he would come from a house thathas money, so chances are he would
have money on him, or awatch or a you know something else.
So could it be that he wasapproached by other youths that knew from from
the uniform that this kid was aposh kid from the posh school? Right?
I guess what I'm confused about isyou know when we talk about was
(28:00):
it roadin school? Yeah? Thegirls school? Yeah, so where was
where was the brideway in in inin you know, to where the school
was, because it seems like tome, so the school is would be
the opposite direction of where he wouldhave been walking. So does that mean
(28:22):
that that the girl that found her, that found him the brideaway would have
been like above, so it wouldhave been it's about Yeah, it looks
so not towards the English channel,but towards the other side. So I
guess, so it looks over itlooks over the bridealway, and it looks
(28:44):
from the school. You can lookin the distance and see the channel,
the English channel, so it's gotgood views from there. So yes,
it was above, So she wouldhave walked down onto the bride away from
school. Okay, okay, hmmyeah. I mean to me, I
feel like this is definitely like we'dbe looking at a youth. I just
(29:06):
I don't know, it, justdon't. I don't see an adult like
seeing a twelve year old kid.And I mean we know that there are
there are really sick people out therewho see a vunderable person and will you
know, have yeah, attack them, right, But the thought that or
knowing that they had went through itspockets and souls money. I don't see
(29:30):
an adult going, you know,in their head going okay, let's see
what you know, how much moneythey have on them? Because I agree
they you know, like I said, most of the time you see a
twelve year old, they're not goingto have anything on them, especially in
nineteen sixty seven. I mean,it's not like it's now where you know,
twelve year old is going to bewalking around with an iPhone or whatever
in nineteen sixty seven. What's thechances that a kid is going to have
(29:52):
anything of value on them? Exactly? So I'm the same I'm leaning towards
I'm leaning towards this is you,And I do like the idea that the
police say that he's very identifiable bythe clothing that he's wearing. He's wearing
a posh school uniform, so theyknow what school he goes to, and
you know what kind of kids goto that school. You know that they're
(30:14):
from families that can afford to payfor school, so you know that he's
from a posh a posh house.The other thing, there was one more
thing with this case which I findreally strange. Okay. In two thousand
and six, it was announced thatpolice were looking for a family people that
had emigrated to Canada with their teenageson shortly after the murder. Now,
(30:37):
I couldn't find any names locally whenI was looking in and out of different
forums and different newspaper articles, andthere was nothing to say who the family
were. And I understand that policewere unable to trace this family following the
emigration. Weird, Okay, SoI think that's very so strange and very
(31:00):
telling, because locally, surely peopleknow who that family are. Surely they
know the names. Yeah apparently,yeah, yeah, more more than likely,
Like, oh, my family ismoving to Canada. I mean you
have to know who that is,right, yeah? Yeah, So surely
somebody local could have told the policea surname or something, but police were
(31:23):
unable to trace the family. Now, more than fifty years after Keith's murder,
his brother Peter obviously is still desperateto know what happened, and he
spoke to the Observer newspaper in twentynineteen because in twenty nineteen police were told
that a local man who had becomean alcoholic had confessed his involvement in keith
(31:48):
killing to his mother. Now,his mum had told a health worker in
confidence that her son had confessed thisto her and she didn't know what to
do. Unfortunately, this man hasnow died. Peter says in the article,
like perhaps that this man had becomean alcoholic because he couldn't deal with
(32:09):
what he had done. He couldn'tdeal with the fact that he was part
of something that ended Keith's life.And the person who passed the information that
the mum who passed the information toSussex Police about this or the mom did
it in confidence sorry to the healthworker, and the health worker felt compelled
(32:29):
to pass this on which I'm reallyglad that they did because the hope now
that is if this man's involvement canbe confirmed his associates from school, going
back talking to teachers or other kidsat the school. If he hung around
with a couple of other kids allthe time, we might then get the
names of his school, like hisschool associates, and then start to build
(32:52):
a picture of who these kids mightbe. Because we have witnesses saying that
these three kids were fighting with aboy, that two of them were running
across a field together. The busdrivers sees he's agitated kids looking really worried
and really scared and really vividly talkingto each other, animatedly talking. So
(33:14):
the picture is building up that thisis perhaps, you know, kids that
attacked Keith. They've taken whatever wasin his pockets and his keys, that's
all that was missing, and they'vesort of gone home. So if this
guy has become an alcoholic because ofthe demons that he's got from that,
let's hope that he can be identifiedproperly with police and that that can help
(33:37):
them lead to lead to arrest.But sadly, Keith's father, Ken died
in nineteen ninety one, and Keith'smother, Vowder, also died in nineteen
ninety sorry. In two thousand andfive and they both died, obviously never
knowing who was responsible for Keith's death. They are actually buried very close to
Keith, which is probably a comfortfor Peter, who now lives in New
(33:58):
Zealand. As of today, Keith'scase still remains unsolved and we still don't
know who was responsible. All right, Well, who are the Chierhead bullies
in eighteen sixty seven in the area. Surely the kids, yeah, surely
the adults now must know who theywere at school. They must have heard
(34:19):
about Keith's murder. They must knowthat. You know there were bullies at
the school. I'll tell you whatI did see. There's something really strange
on YouTube. There is this videoof a man called paranormal Paul. Okay,
he actually walks the bridle Path atnight with this like it looks I
don't even know what it is.I'm not I don't really know much about
this. But he has this likemobile phone that he's video in and it's
(34:43):
like this equipment that claims to detectthe sound of spirits, right, and
I couldn't understand a word of whatthese spirits were saying. But in the
he actually puts words captions up andhe's going like, oh, Keith,
you know your brother misses you.We need to know what happened, and
then you'll hear like and then it'llbe like flash up on the screen and
it'll be they stabbed me. Andthen he'll go, Okay, Keith,
(35:07):
are the other spirits? You needto leave us alone. We need to
let Keith speak, and then itgoes back again. He says, Keith,
you know what happens, and thenyou hear again and it's like very
bad comes up on the screen.Honestly, it's the most bizarre thing I've
ever seen. I've never come acrossa case where I've had anything like this
attached to it. But if youwant to have a bizarre five minutes by
(35:28):
all means, go on YouTube.Look for Paranormal Paul and look for Keith
Lyon and you can actually see theBridle Path, though it does give you
a good like a video view ofthe Bridle Path. But okay, honestly,
it's so weird that the whole Idon't know what the device is.
It looks like it looks like aniPhone, but apparently he talks to spirits
and they talk back to him insome language that is not English, there
(35:52):
has to you know, I meanlike this seems like I don't want to
say He's like it should be obvious, like who is involved. I mean
no, I believe I think thesame. I guarantee you the mom of
of whoever you know, one ofthe kids knows it was him, because
(36:13):
taking a steak knife like that,having something missing like that, a mom
knows, right, Yeah, amom would know, like, hey,
where did my state? Because eventhough this is like something that you would
get in a giveaway, you knowhow many knives you do in your cupboard?
Yeah, you know, yeah,exactly, especially if it's a same
(36:34):
you know, yeah, and youknow if your kid's a shithead, right,
I mean you know that. Ohman. The other thing, See,
the thing that really compelled me aboutthis case is I believe this case
is one hundred percent solvable, onehundred percent because kids that went to school
in that school at the same timeas Keith would know who you know other
(37:00):
schools locally, you know the kidsthat kind of stick out. So there's
kids from that you know, there'skids from the girls school, there's kids
from the boys' school that would knowthe other local kids of the same age.
So I know that there is somebodyout there that knows the rumors from
(37:20):
their school, because that kind ofstuff gets out. If if somebody's got
involved in something when you're a kidand they've had a fight somewhere or they've
stolen something, it gets round tothe other kids. You know that that
guy from class whatever three B lastweek robbed stuff out of super drug.
You know that when you're a kid, it's the kind of stuff that gets
talked about in the playgrounds and stuffcan't keep their mouths shut, no,
(37:45):
And so I know one hundred percentthat there are people that remember when they
were at school what the rumors were, and they need to come forward to
police and to say, look,when I was at school, these were
the rumors. These were the kidswe talked about. You need to look
at them because the police haven't gotmagic ones. They need help from people.
(38:07):
And if you don't know, youcan submit intelligence to the police without
having your because of data protection,your details cannot be passed on to anybody
else. So you can submit anonymousfeedback and intelligence to police forces one hundred
(38:30):
percent anonymous. No one can knowthat you did that. There are there
are things in place to make surethat your identity is not known even within
the police, it will be thatit will be protected so that only certain
officers from certain areas can look atthat detail, and you're only allowed to
(38:50):
look at it if you have policingreason to do so, So your identity
is protected. If you have informationon a case like this, any case,
that one thing that you think isreally insignificant could be that the one
thing that can give officers a wholenew avenue to go down. Is so
(39:13):
important that if you see something thatyou say something, because this could this
could actually give this little boys story, you know, a conclusion. It
could help his brother find out whathappened. It's not going to make things
better. There'll be no closure assuch, because I hate that. It
gives you closure, it doesn't.It closes a chapter and allows you to
(39:37):
start another chapter. So yeah,but to have that and not understand what
happened to your brother, to yourson, to your friend, to not
know the what happened is the thehardest thing. Yep, absolutely right.
(39:58):
So yeah, if you went tothat school in that area, or you
know someone that did, get chattingabout it, you know, get that
stuff out there because it's important andmaybe one day I'll be able to do
an update and say we know whathappened to Keith. Yeah, I don't
even need to give you the names, but we know what happened, and
(40:19):
we know you know, we knowwhat happened to him. His brother deserves
to have His brother deserves that phonecall one hundred percent, he really does.
And I hate and ah, Isaw that the picture of the picture
that we have of Keith is lovely. His little face. He's such a
cute kid. He's so cute,and he doesn't deserve he didn't deserve that.
(40:42):
So sad. So that's this week'scase FORUL that well, thank you
for that, and hopefully one daywe can have good news about Keith.
And yeah, in this case,I hope so. So before we get
into our dumb criminal, I justwant to give you this week's business.
We need to say hello to Matthewfrom New Zealand sent me a really lovely
(41:02):
message on Instagram. It's lovely totalk to him. I hope now that
you've caught up on all the episodes, because he said he was catching up
on all our old episodes and he'snoticed the fact that when we very first
started in the beginning, we didn'tdisagree on things. It's like we were
frightened to disagree, whereas now wehave a good old, a good old
ding dong about stuff. So yeah, that is probably true. We obviously
(41:24):
know each other so much better thanwe did in the beginning, so we're
not frightened to upset each other anymorebecause it doesn't really happen. We have
good, healthy discussions instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't happen
often. I mean I think alot of times we're on the same page.
Yeah, even when we do disagree, I mean, it's we're still
friends civil. Yeah. So hegave us five stars on Spotify. So
(41:45):
Matthew from New Zealand, we loveyou. Thank you. I want to
say an absolutely huge, massive welldone to our friend the Celia athlete.
She completed the London Marathon today.She is a legend. Well done to
her. Unfortunately I wasn't able togo and watch her in London this weekend
because I'd love to have gone andsaid hello, she's come all the way
over from America obviously to run it. So well done, You're amazing.
(42:09):
It's a who huge deal. It'sa huge deal. She gives me tips
on running and stuff. We've alsogot Crime Con Scotland happening next weekend in
Glasgow and there will be a lotof really really good stuff going on.
Unfortunately we can't make it, butyou can still go along. It's very
(42:30):
interactive, it's very very good.It's very up close and personal clime Cron
Glasgow, so make sure you getyour tickets if you're in the area.
It's well worth doing. There arelots of podcasters there. There are a
lot of really good speakers this year. I do believe Captain will be there
in Glasgow, so if you're atrue crime garage supporter and you want to
(42:52):
meet the Captain, it's not asbusy as London. So if you want
to meet him, shake his handand have a beer with him, by
all means, got there, I'msure, or see if he looks like
you think he'd look, because wellthat's always really funny. I like to
know what people think. So butwe will both be in London in September.
There are still chances to get yourtickets for Crime Con London September twentieth,
(43:13):
twenty first and twenty second. Youcan just go to the website Crimecon
Dot co dot uk get yourself,choose the tickets that you want. There
are payment plans, you don't haveto do it all in one go.
You can use crime Pedia as yourcode for checkout and that will give you
ten percent off as well. Andwe'll be there doing our thing as usual.
Cocktail in hand. Yeah, talkingtrue crime, Yes, so you
(43:36):
will. I've got new shoes ofcrime Con London. Anybody that's been before
that I've seen knows I love mycrime Con shoes and I have new crime
Con shoes this year and I lovethem. They may or may not have
body parts on them, not real. Are they more comfortable? Are they
more comfortable than some of the othershoes you've worn? No, Morvin,
(43:58):
So they are called cherry shoes fairenough? Yeah so yes, new shoes
for London. So look out forthose. It's very important. Yes,
very good, thank you. Sowith that, do you want to do
a dumb criminal? Let's go.Let's go, Hey, captain stupid poopy
(44:22):
pants, use a dummy and usea piece of sheet. I love it
when he says that. Yeah,so Cherry, this is this is not
the first time we've had a dumbcriminal like this. Okay, and I
don't think. I think anytime thishappens we need to bring it up because
this these might be the dumbest ofthe dumb. Okay, okay, yeah,
(44:44):
yeah. So a Indiana woman isfacing narcotics narcotics charges after she called
nine to one one to report purchasingan inferior batch a methamphetamine and they say
that she wanted to file charges againsther drug dealer. Oh please tell me
(45:04):
that you have audio of like ourfriend Brandon taking this nine one one call.
That would be the ice on thecake for this story. That would
amazing, That would be brilliant.Not I wish I do. I wish
you see if I need to seeif I can find it, but I
do not have the audio. Iwish I could, though, so in
a as a legend of probably probablywill cause Affidavid Sarah Harris, who was
thirty four years old, twice madean open line call to the police emergency
(45:30):
number, which prompted an officer tovisit her residence to ensure that everything was
okay. So she she called twicenine one one, but you know,
wow, did never say anything toThat is life and life and death,
people. Nine one is the lifeand death if you want to report a
bad batch of methamphetamine, call thenon emergency number, Yeah number one Yeah
(45:52):
Now. During the conversation with thepolice, Captain, Harris declared that her
myth was not what it was supposedto be. Drug left her felt The
drug left her feeling as though shewas going to have a heart attack.
Harris said she had snorted a lineof the math and felt something different and
it touched her skin and nostrils.She did now. She noted that that
(46:16):
she and and a friend had smokeda bowl of normal math before she had
obtained the math that led her tocall nine to one one Now, apparently
believing that the local sheriff operated abetter legal better illegal business bureau, requested
that the drug be tested. Shealso declared that she wanted she yes.
(46:39):
She also declares she wanted to turnin turn the person in who provided her
the math. While speaking to thepolice at her home, she made well,
she made the big mistake of handingover the meth that she had talked
about. Uh now. The contestof the small Baggaie, which carried a
red pig design, was field testedand was positive for being methmphetamine. As
(47:04):
a result of Harris providing the narcoticsevidence h a criminal. Uh. She
ended up being charged for meth possession, which is a Class six felony and
carries a maximum of thirty month prisonterm. Excuse me, officer, but
can you please tell tell my drugdealer off? Because not good enough stuff?
(47:27):
So please please sort that out forme. Oh great, okay,
yeah, just wait there, ma'am. Well I just sat that out for
you. I'm really sorry that yourdrugs aren't aren't right? Oh it's crazy,
that is crazy. What She's obviouslyhigh when she did that, so
obviously so there's a criminal. Ohyeah, one, because why would why
(47:52):
would you call the police? Tellme all this information then hand it over
heression of drugs? Not good stuff? Please take it away. I love
that. That was brilliant, Thankyou man. Let me have you heard
about just brings real quick? Haveyou heard about the the gang that's Liverpool's
(48:17):
city center trying to steal food?Yes, particularly food being at Greggs.
I mean, do you have aGregs over there? Do people know what
Gregs is in America? Right?Okay? So so Greggs in England like
a fast food does like pastise,which I think you sometimes called pasties,
(48:37):
but pastise it does like real,real quick kind of grab and go fu.
So it would be like sausage rolls. Past these hot like like hot
stuff. They do sandwiches and coffeeand that kind of stuff. And it's
typically done by people like on theirway to work. They grab stuff like
that. So it's just like acheap, very cheap, very cheap and
cheerful as how I would describe it. Really m hm, there you go.
(49:04):
Yeah. So this gang which hasbeen done XL Gullies, the XL
Gullies has been they've been confronting peopletrying to steal their lunch. There's apparently
one of these seagulls Goals, whichis considered the top level boss said,
(49:28):
we are actually talking about seagulls.We're not talking about a real gang.
It's actually seagulls that we're talking aboutis buds. They are stealing people's lunch.
No, yeah, oh yeah,so they're stealing people's lunch. What
was it? I was just Iwas reading this here. So one person
(49:49):
crime reporter. Oh yeah, thiscrime reporter named Patty Edrich was one of
the victims. Let me just readthis. So they had just purchased a
margarite piece of slides from Gregg's andwith walking back to the office. Now,
he said that I've seen base goodswipes out of people's hands on a
regular basis walking near the town hall, but you'd never think it would happen
(50:10):
to you. Out of nowhere,this monster swooped down, beady yellow eyes
glaring and squared up, wings flapping. Now Patty had two options either throw
the pizza on the floor and surrenderit, surrender it to the hungry beast
it, which would then continue thethrowaway culture that has led to this city
(50:30):
seagull infestation, or deploy evasive tactics. So Patty ended up ducking behind their
colleague put their pizza. I haveactually seen seen seagulls rip food out of
people's hands here. I've actually seenit happen. Yeah, people that are
walking along the street that have theirfood ripped out of their hands by angry
(50:52):
seagulls. It's crazy, you know, I've called there. They are bird
bad birds, bad birds, badbirds, bad birds. So if you're
(51:14):
if you have great keep an eyeout greg the XL gullies. They might
be lurking somewhere around your neighborhood.Someone does need to do something about these
bad boys. Thank you very muchfor joining us this week. It's been
a pleasure. We hope that ifyou are in the area of where Keith's
case took took part, sorry tookyou know, happened, then you might
(51:36):
have some information, have a havea think about it, and if you
know anything, please do say something. Give Keith's brother some kind of ending
to his sad story, and wewill be back in two weeks time.
We'll see you in a fortnight andit'll be Morgan's case next time. So
for now, be nice and bye.
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