EP194: The Lipstick Killer

THANK YOU TO APPLE SUBSCRIBER CAITLAN P AND HER SISTER NIKITA FOR SUGGESTING THIS CASE!

!In June 1946, 17-year-old William Heirens was arrested for burglary. During his lengthy interrogation which lasted six days, he confessed to some unsolved murders in the Chicago area, including one of a six-year-old girl. William eventually was convicted and died in prison. Listen to this week's story and decide for yourself If he was guilty of the crimes he was convicted of.

Join us on Facebook and IG: @HARDCORETRUECRIME Web: www.crimesandconsequences.com--------------->Get ad-free early releases of each episode, plus over 170 exclusive Members Only episodes by going to Patreon.com/tntcrimes or joining our Apple Channel on the Apple Podcast App.

SOURCES:
1) William Heirens Case: the 1940S Lipstick Killer by Shayne Regula
2) The Frightening Aspect of William Heirens' Story: a Vicious Killer Beneath the Façade of Normalcy by King Vecchia
3) Murderpedia
4) https://www.crimelibrary.org/serial_killers/predators/heirens/bibli_8.html
5) https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/us/william-heirens-the-lipstick-killer-dies-at-83.html
6) https://allthatsinteresting.com/william-heirens-lipstick-killer
7) https://www.crimetraveller.org/2015/07/william-heirens-the-lipstick-killer/
8) https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3496&context=jclc

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This episode may contain content of agraphic nature, including descriptions of physical and
sexual violence against adults, children,and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Tanya and I'mTalia, and we are Crimes and Consequences,
a true crime podcast. Ay Tanya, Hi Talia. Welcome back everybody

(00:38):
to this week's episode of Crimes andConsequences. This is an oldie goodie.
Yes, you may have heard ofthem as the lipstick Killer. I have
never heard of this one. Really, yeah, it seems like there's probably
a few lipstick killers there probably,Well, this is about William George Harron's

(00:59):
I'm a give you a little background. Okay, okay, I'm ready before
I do, though, everybody knowshit the like subscribe, follow love,
need more, button, need more, whatever it is on your favorite app.
And with that, we're going todive into this. All right,
let's do it. See. Ikind of like the older ones that because
there's I don't know what the wordis, but there's something interesting about killers

(01:26):
that aren't in our time, Likeit just shows that there were killers.
Yeah, like throughout time. Probablythere's weirdos everywhere at anytime, anytime in
our in our human existence. Okay, so let me tell you about William
George Harrens. He was born innineteen twenty eight, he was on the
eve of the Great Depression, andhe was raised in Evans, still in

(01:49):
Illinois. He came from a povertystricken home and his parents they argued all
the time. They had no money. Yeah, I know, they probably
just were yeah, yeah, fuck, I know. At the age of
elemon, William claims to have witnesseda couple will say making love. Oh
no, that's a nice term.Yeah. When he told his mother,

(02:14):
she would tell him that all sexwas dirty and he would get a disease.
Did he ever tried it as aresult. One time, when he
was a little older, he waskissing a girlfriend and he just burst into
tears and started vomiting right in frontof her, voiting because it's dirty.

(02:34):
It's dirty, and it's you're gonnaget a disease. It's gross. Gross.
As a child, he was prettyquiet and he spent most of his
time alone. When he became ateen, he just took to the streets
in search of what we'll call cheapentertainment. Are you being nice? And
unfortunately that included petty theft. Hewas just kind of what's the word,

(02:59):
a little hoodlum? Yeah, yeah, so it's an old term, right,
he's a hoodlum. When he wastwelve, he worked at a grocer
store, so he actually had alegit job. One day, he accidentally
short changed himself, so the registerwas a little off and I think he
had to pay for it. Ohshit, Yeah, he was messed up
on the whole change to someone.So he ended up stealing a single dollar

(03:24):
bill from an apartment by reaching throughthe crack in a chain door. And
he's twelve, and after that itall went downhill. Yeah. He soon
graduated to stealing larger amounts of moneyand then later personal items from people.
That's so creepy. Eventually William hadhimself a small collection of stolen items that

(03:47):
ranged from the expensive to the moremundane. He had things like cameras,
cocktail shakers. Oh they're probably likesterling silver or something, guns gone,
yeah, and even handkerchiefs. Youwhy, why do you want someone's handkerchief?
It's the thrill that I told you. That was his form of entertainment.

(04:12):
Then he really began like taking robbinghome. Seriously. He would look
for apartments that forgot to lock theirdoors. He would then check to make
sure like no one's home and sneakin, and he'd steal anything that had
any sort of value. And he'syoung, so that a lot of things
may have seemed like they had value, but most of the time he was

(04:32):
hunting for wallets and purses or anycash. At thirteen, he was arrested
for breaking into a local building's basementand when he was arrested, he was
carrying a loaded gun. Oh shit, it's not a good start. No,
So the police ended up searching theheron's home and that revealed more weapons
hidden in a refrigerator. Come on, now, nobody found it. And

(04:58):
I don't know. Maybe they Ihad to come on, they're poor as
hell. Maybe he's in a baglooked like meat and dashed in the produce
store behind some cucumbers or something,and they also found some in the loft
they had the attic. William admittedto a string of burglaries. He's like,
yeah, I did it, andhe was sent to what I believe

(05:19):
is called the balt School of WaywardBoys. Wayward change the name. Nobody
wants to be like, yeah,I go to that Wayward Boys school.
Where school you go to, Iknow, something different? But he was
there for several months. He claimedthat he stole mostly for fun and it

(05:39):
was a way to release tension.Okay. He described it as a hobby
for him, something to do whilehis parents were busy fighting with each other.
Yeah, okay, blame the parents. They're so they're busy fighting.
What else could I do? Whatelse could I do? I couldn't just
go out and like play baseball withmy friends. No, I needed to
go rap. I got to releasethis tension. I got to release his

(06:00):
tension. Not long after he wasreleased from the Wayward Boys School, he
was arrested again. Oh no,This time he was sentenced to three years
at what I believe is called SaintBede's Academy, and that was operated by
benedictin Monksh Yeah during this time andsent to a nunnery right. Yes.
Yes. During his time at theschool, he stood out because he was

(06:24):
really an exceptional student. He wasvery smart. He was released when he
was sixteen, and he had suchgood test scores that he was able to
enroll at the University of Chicago.Really, yeah, he's sixteen, He's
wasting his life. Now he's not. He's going to school. Okay,
he was wasting his life met withthe months before he got sentenced to live

(06:46):
with the monks. Yeah, nowwe know what to do with our kids.
While the school proved to be goodfrom academically, it didn't really hell
with his what we'll call bad streak. In other words, he was still
stealing. Yeah, he's getting histhrills. He's still getting his thrills.
As a matter of fact, hewas seventeen years old when he was at

(07:06):
the University of Chicago and he gotarrested again. Oh shit, Well,
yam can't stay out of trouble,no, because he likes the thrillsoutely.
On June twenty six, now we'rein nineteen forty six, he was robbing
an apartment when he was spotted byanother neighbor who called the police. Police
fired after William pulled out a gun. Oh no, yeah, and they

(07:30):
managed to fire off two shots.But it was a hit over his head
and there was a nearby flower pot. Oh, and it broke and it
ended up rendering him unconscious. Sothe flower pot fell on I guess that's
kind of crazy. It's like ina movie that happened to me once.
Actually, well, no one wasshooting a gun, but I was sitting

(07:50):
on my parents' deck and flower potfell and hit me right. Yeah,
that explains a lot, now Iunderstand. It hurt like a son of
a bed. Let me just tellyou long term effects. But I didn't
fall unconscious, so I must haveknocked his ass. Real guid. He
was arrested and taken to the CookCounty Jail in Illinois. At first he

(08:13):
was just a thief. They didn'tknow that he would end up being the
lipstick killer. Let's take a lookback some shall we. Let's do that.
Three terrible murders took place just fivemonths earlier, between June of nineteen
forty five in January of nineteen fortysix, so that's an eight month span.

(08:39):
Chicago was on the alert, butthe rest of the country was as
well. So let me tell youabout the first one. It's June fifth,
nineteen forty five, forty three yearold Josephine Ross, who was three
times divorced. She was unemployed.She lived with her daughters Mary, Jane,
Jacqueline, and I don't know whereher other daughter is. They lived

(09:00):
in Kenwood Avenue apartments in the EdgewoodDistrict, which is located in Chicago's North
Side. Her body was discovered atone thirty that afternoon when Jacqueline came home.
She usually she went to work andshe would come home for lunch.
She found the apartment she lived inwith her mom turned upside down. The
drawers were pulled out, chairs wereknocked over, and newspapers were unfurled across

(09:26):
the floor. She ran to hermother's bedroom and then she saw something she
would never forget. Josephine was sprawledacross to her bed. Her throat was
gashed many times and there were multiplestabbings. Her head was wrapped in a
dress. Blood was spewed across theroom. It was on the walls,

(09:48):
the drapes, the furniture, Itsoaked the mattress, and there was an
adjoining room several articles of women's clothingin undergarments. They lean this pool of
bloody water in the bathtop. Ohthat's weird. The only thing missing from
the house was some change. Really, no fingerprints were found, only dark

(10:15):
hairs that were in Josephine's hands.Who was clutching these dark hairs that indicated
to authorities that she was struggling withthis intruder who eventually killed her, so
she ripped his hair out. Josephinehad a fiance, but he had an
alibi. They questioned all her formerex husbands because she had three right and

(10:37):
her former boyfriends, and they allhad alibis, so the police had no
suspects. There was a witness whosaw a man loitering around the apartments and
running from the scene, and hehad a dark complexion and he was wearing
a white sweater and dark pants,but they weren't able to locate them.
Next, we have this honorably dischargedfrom the US Navy named Francis Brown.

(11:01):
Francis Brown was petite, brown haired, and demure. She lived in room
six one one at the Pine Crestapartment building on Pine Grove Avenue, not
far from where Josephine Ross had lived, and she was home alone on the
evening of December tenth, nineteen fortyfive. She arrived a little late.

(11:22):
It was about nine thirty. Franciswas told by a desk clerk, because
remember she's running a room, thata man had entered the foyer earlier asking
for her. When the man wasinformed that she was out, the man
left. According to the clerk,Francis seemed to have been expecting the caller

(11:43):
the person the man there. Hernude body was discovered the following morning by
Martha Ingalls. She was a housemaid, curious s twoy francis radio was playing
really loud at nine am and whyher door was a jar. Martha peeked
into room six one one and shefound Francis's bed splattered with blood and a

(12:07):
trail leading to the bathroom. Oh. She found Frances stretched over the bathtub,
her head wrapped in her pajamas,a butcher knife rammed into her neck,
and a bullet hole in her skull. Oh my gosh. No valuables
were taken, but there was amessage written in lipstick on the wall of

(12:33):
her apartment and it read as followsquote for Heaven's sake, catch me before
I kill more. I can't controlmyself. Wow. I feel like we've
had that before. And one ofour Patrion episodes we had a killer yea
uh huh, and he's like,I'm not going to stop and it was

(12:54):
on a mirror and I think Idid. It was something like the title
had to do with mirror or something. Yeah. Yeah, we've done so
many guys, I know un togetherat some time. I mean, I
remember it, but I don't rememberthe name. Please found a bloody fingerprint
smudged on the door jam of theentrance, and an earlier witness, his
name was George Weinberg, came forwardto report that he did hear a gunshot

(13:16):
at like four am. And additionally, of course there's that night clerk.
She'd been stationed in the lobby ofthe building. She reported a nervous man.
He was about thirty five forty yearsold. She thought he wade maybe
one hundred and forty pounds. Hegot off the elevator, fumbled for the
door to the street, and heleft. Now next, we have a

(13:37):
beautiful six year old named Susanne Degnan. She went to bed Sunday evening and
this is January sixth, nineteen fortysix. She spent the whole day earlier
with her family. She went tobed. Her parents were Jim and Helen
and they had a happy family.They lived at Thorndale and Kenmore in the
Edgewater district. They had two daughters, Susanne and Betty. They shared a

(14:01):
huge, huge turn of the sentrykind of home. They shared it with
another family, one of those bighomes. They occupied the first floor,
and then the people named the Flynn'shad the upstairs floor. During the night,
the only sounds that household heard werethe momentary barking of the Flynn's dogs,
which wasn't unusual. I mean,I have dogs, they barget flies,

(14:26):
and they heard some men talking inthe street. Cecilia Flynn thought one
of the men had said something like, this is the best looking building around.
Helen, Susanne and Betty's mom atone point sat up in bad She
woke her husband up. She explainedshe thought she'd heard Susanne crying. The
couple listened for a few minutes andthen they hear anything, so they went

(14:50):
back to sleep. So it's themorning. Now it's January seventh. Jim
Dad went to wake up his daughter'sfor school. He thought it was odd
that Susanne's door was closed, sinceshe was afraid of the dark and she
always kept her door open. Sohe peeks inside her bedroom and her window
is fully raised. The curtains wereblowing just like you see in the movie.

(15:11):
Yeah, the cold breeze, andSuzanne was nowhere to be seen.
She couldn't be found. The rustof the family gets up. They're looking
everywhere. They're in the looking inthe closets, they looked on the fire
escape. They woke up the Flintsand asked them if they could search their
part of the home. And that'swhen they began to panic because Suzanne was

(15:33):
not in the house. And she'ssix and she's taken from a window.
Right. That's brazen, right,because in the nature of this crime,
we have a child that's disappeared.The police department dug into this case with
fervor. There was a new policecommissioner's name was John Prendaghast, and he

(15:54):
became personally involved like this meant something. The Degnan apartment, according to this
author, her name is Dolors Kennedy, she wrote this book, was immediately
quote filled with police from the area, eager to resolve the disappearance of Suzanne

(16:15):
Degnan. On the floor of Suzanne'sbedroom, they found what they thought was
a discarded tissue. But it wasn't, Tanya, Oh was it? It
was a ransom note? Oh shit, really a ransom note. It was
probably blown from the bed because thewindow was open in the wind and it

(16:36):
read quote get twenty thousand ready inweight and weight is spelled wrong for word?
Do not notify FPI or police billsin fives and tents. Yeah,
that's a lot of five sutents.On the backside was a warning burned this
for her safety. Oh that's ominous, dude. You can't even spell weight,

(16:59):
right. You think you're going toget away with nappy? Bring it
for ransom and don't don't notify thepolice. Oops, already did that.
Who's not going to notify the pol? They always notify the police. Come
on. Exactly outside the apartment,police found a seven foot ladder that,
when held upright, reached to thesill of the girl's window. Oh godamn
it did say she was on thefirst floor, But that's fine. The

(17:22):
ladder, police learned, had beenstolen from a nursery several blocks away.
Investigators spread throughout the ear They're searching, they're asking questions, They're hoping to
find a witness or something. Therewas an anonymous call that suggested they search
the local sewers. Shit the sewers. Oh shit, But before I tell

(17:45):
you more, I'm gonna take aquick break. That evening detective Lee O'Rourke
and Harry Benois did just that.They searched the sewers, noticing that a
sewer her cover a nearby Wilthrop Avenuelooked misplaced. They flashed their light into

(18:06):
the well. It's not really awell, it's a sewer, yeah,
and they found what looked like thehead of a golden haired dow No,
it wasn't a doll's head. Beforethat evening ended the rest of Suzanne because
it was just her head. Ohshit. Her legs and torso were found

(18:29):
scattered in the debris of other sewers. Are you kidding me? Her arms
weren't found for several weeks. Ohmy god, who fucking does that?
Well, we know, but itlooks like Jesus Christ. A basement washtub
below one of the apartments off ofWilthrop Avenue proved to be the place of
dismemberment. So he brought her intoan apartment like a laundry room, right,

(18:56):
and he just cut her up?What the fuck? Like, what
the fuck is that? Yah?Yeah? And it's like, how are
you not worried that someone's gonna walk? Yeah? They found blood, pieces
of human flesh, and blond hairsin the dream. Oh poor little Susianne.
I don't know what the fuck issex? What a matter of people?

(19:18):
I hate people do. Chicago's greatestmanhunt and perhaps one of the most
intensive ever conducted in the nation atthe time it was on. Yeah,
police had the task of trying topluck the killer out of a city of
four million. It's a long timeago, guys. Yeah, this isn't
like DNA, And yeah, Ireally feel for cops back that it had

(19:41):
to because I can't even imagine.They worked around the clock. This is
a quote from an author, LucyFreeman. They worked around the clock,
often driving their own cars and usingtheir own time a police work day and
night. They questioning potential suspects.They interviewed more than eight hundred people.
They gave lie detect her tests toone hundred and seventy geez. The crime

(20:03):
Laboratory compared seven thousand sets of handwritingwith a ransom note. Can you imagine
the tedious job that was. Now, we have computers to put it in
and see, but these people hadto do it all manual. The police
received over five thousand, two hundredand fifty tips from all over the world,

(20:23):
and they investigated three thousand, onehundred and fifty three of them.
Geez police believed the kidnapper slash killermust have driven a car the few blocks
to the place of dismemberment, soSuzanne had been put in a car.
She was seventy four pounds and carryingher through the streets would have probably caused
too much attention. But I don'tknow. With him, I don't either.

(20:47):
These streets weren't empty. Even inthe late hours, there were still
people. Witnesses had seen a womanin the vicinity carrying a large bundle in
both her arms. Near the Degnenhome, she got into what seemed to
be an awaiting automobile where a baldingman sat behind the wheel. Another witness
he was a seresman on Furlow hesaw a large, dark man carrying a

(21:10):
shopping bag, but the couple andthe man with the bag they were never
identified. The author I talked about, Dolores Kennedy said quote. The most
promising suspects were arrested, and uponthose arrest State's Attorney William J. Towey
and Chief of Detectives Walter G.Storms would tell the press that this time
they had found the killer. Inevitablythe suspect would end up passing a lie

(21:33):
detector test or I have an alibi, and police were forced to admit that
the fingerprints that they did have didn'tmatch, so they were basically leading the
public un to believe all we gothim this time, and then it would
just fall Yeah, a janitor.Sixty five year old Hector Berber was arrested
on suspicion. So they actually arrivedat he worked in the apartment building where

(21:57):
the Degnans lived, and the sinkwhere Suzanne was believed to be dismembered.
That was in an area that hefrequented a lot, and the grimy state
of the ransom note because it wasdirty, suggested it could be a janitor.
Really, if janitors have dirty hands. Okay, okay, don't you

(22:22):
think that's a stretch. That's abig stretch. That's a big stretch.
The police were so confident that theytold the press, quote, this is
the man. Oh, despite thediscrepancies between his profile and the one that
they had developed originally, which statedthat the killer had skills of a surgeon.
Oh oh yeah, that's right,because she wasn't dismembered, or was

(22:47):
at least a butcher. They justfelt confident he was the one because the
notes dirty and janitors, I guessare dirty. I guess all the janitors
obviously never looked dirty. All right, right, he doesn't go home and
wash his hands. Come on,he was an older and you know he's
sixty five. I guess as theelderly. It doesn't seem so old to
me. He was beaten by thepolice. Oh no, under questioning for

(23:08):
forty eight hours. Damn. Hesuffered injuries, including a separated shoulder,
oh out of him, and hestill didn't confess. Yeah. Wow.
He got a lawyer through the janitorunion, and he was released on a
writ of habeas corpus. You knowwhat he had to say about this experience

(23:30):
said quote, Oh, they hangme up. They blindfolded me. I
can't put up my arms, they'restill sore. They had handcuffs on me
for hours and hours. They threwme in the cell again. I was
blindfolded. They handcuffed my hands behindmy back and pulled me up on bars
until my toes touched the floor.I know, eat, I go to

(23:51):
hospital. Oh I'm so sick anymore, and I would have ended up confessing
to anything Oh that's some human violationright there. Fucking shitty, that's how
they did it back in the day. Though. Yeah, he's lucky he
held his ground right because he needbe hanged. Probably probably he ended up
spending ten days in the hospital.Oh shit, what it's a long time,

(24:15):
so longed in. You can't dothat shit, not anymore. No,
not they do. But it wasdetermined that Hector, sorry, couldn't
write English well enough to even bythe crude standards of a ransom note for
him to have written it like hecouldn't read or write. He sued the

(24:36):
Chicago Police Department. He sued forfifteen thousand, and you know what the
judge did, what gave him twentywow wow, which would be a lot
of money today less what a ransomnote was for was for twenty grand Oh
well he didn't write it, yeah, exactly. Five thousand dollars of the
twenty thousand awarded to Hector was givento his wife, as the police had

(25:00):
tried to pressure her to implicate herhusband in the murder. They were laying
on the pressure, fucking ing aswinner turned into springs. Her time is
going by. Yeah, police hadtheir theories, they had lots of them,
but they had no concrete leads.The ransom note had been sent to
the FBI laboratories, and I toldyou there were fingerprints that were found.

(25:25):
Most of the prints belonged to thefamily members and the policemen who handled it,
because he's back then his hands weredirty, No, just kidding,
Yeah, who knows whose hands weredirty? But a few smudged prints hadn't
been identified. Thomas Laffey, theChicago Police Department's expert, spent a lot
of time trying to match them withthousands and thousands of files, but he

(25:48):
couldn't. That had to be frustratingas all hell. Right, at some
point you're like, guys get blurry, and you're like yeah, they're like,
oh, I can't look at anymore fingerprints. They also, I'm
sure they all start to look thesame. Right. The search seemed impossible,
But then something changed. A collegestudent named none other than William Harrins
turned up out of nowhere, andthe spotlight of suspicion was turned on him

(26:14):
with full force. So now I'mgoing to go back over the night he
was caught, which I did talkto you about earlier. Remember the flower
Oh yeah, yes, so he'sabout eighteen. Now it's June twenty six,
nineteen forty six. William was arrestedon attempted burglary charges because someone saw

(26:37):
him breaking into an apartment and hefled and the buildings janitor nice pursued him,
blocked his path out of the building. Up. Yeah, hello hero,
janitor, Hero not dirty hands.William, though, ended up pointing
the gun he was carrying the oldjanitor and said, quote, let me
get out, or I'll let youhave it in the guts. Oh okay,

(27:00):
go ahead. Then surface police gothe doors right there. Yes,
I will not block. The janitorstopped chasing him. Yeah, William made
his way to this nearby building.He was Lena lay low, but someone
spotted him and they called the police, and I described it a little bit
before. But two officers closed infrom two different directions, and William was

(27:22):
trapped brandishing a revolver. He pointsthe barrel at one of the officers.
Now, one of the reports saythat he pulled the trigger and the gun
misfired. The police stay he pulledit twice in a misfired. William's versions
a little bit different. He saidhe was just basically bluffing with a gun

(27:42):
and the cops charged after him.A scuffle resulted and it ended only when
an off duty police officer dropped threeflower pots on William's head, so they
had fired after Adam. One ofthe flower pats fell down, and then

(28:02):
the officer threw some nice at hishead. At least two nice because they
are total three that he said.According to William, you remember drifting into
consciousness only when he was being questioned. The police had it taken him to
Bridewell Hospital, which is right bythe Cook County Jail. He says policemen
were threatening him. They were pushinghim, they probably were, and then

(28:26):
punching him. Yes, given whatwe know, they probably were. And
they were jabbing him in the bodyand he felt his hands being pushed onto
an inkpat. Oh, they're gettinghis finger pricked. He would know because
he's been arresting quite a few rights. He claims he was drifting in and
out of consciousness, and then thequestioning became more intense. They were demanding

(28:48):
to know how he did it,to say how he did it, and
that they knew he did it.At one point, someone allegedly punched him
in the testicles, causing him tonear vomit. They also burned him with
ether. Really, m, howdo you burn someone with either poor ether?
Oh? Okay, let's liquid likealcohol? Yeah, I think I

(29:11):
think right. Thought it was like, Oh, I guess it is like
chloroform or whatever. They did itwow allegedly yeah. William later said he
was interrogated around the clock for sixconsecutive days, being beaten and abused by
police, and he was not allowedto eat or drink in six days.
Yes, I don't know if Ibelieve that. I wasn't allowed to see

(29:33):
his parents for four days, andhe was also refusing an opportunity to have
a lawyer for all those six days. Now I would normally say I don't
believe it, but given what weknow about one janitor, yeah, I
don't know. I don't know.So this gets even crazier too. Psychiatrists
doctor Haynes and Roy Rinker gave himsodium pentathal truth serm. Okay, they

(29:57):
didn't have a warrant, his parentsdidn't consent. But he's eighteen, so,
oh he's not quite eighteen, that'swhy. And then on the truth
serum he was interrogated for three hours. Oh, they were going to get
this guy under the influence of thedrug. The authorities claimed, William spoke
of an alternate personality named George Merman. Okay, okay, and it was

(30:21):
George Merman that committed the murders.William claimed that he recalled little of the
drug induced interrogation, which is probablyfucking true. I mean, I don't
know. I've never had truth serum. Please. No, I've had a
lot. I've had a lot ofthings, but I haven't had that.
It might be fun I don't know. What William actually said is in dispute

(30:41):
as the original transcripts disappeared. Weshouldn't laugh. It's not funny. If
it wasn't true, it'd be funny. Yeah. Right, on his fifth
day and custody, William was givena lumbar puncture. Oh without anesthesia.
Oh no, it's like a spinaltap. Oh, this is making me

(31:03):
like moments later, I don't Idon't even know why. He was driven
to police headquarters for a polygraph test. They tried for a few minutes to
administer the test, but he wasin such obvious pain that the test had
to be rescheduled. Why would theygive him a lumber it's a spinal tap.
I don't know. I don't knoweither. Well, it was nineteen
forty six. They were doing allkinds where they were just making sure he

(31:26):
was healthy, giving him a physical. Sure, we'll go with that.
Eventually, the polygraph was administered andauthorities announced that the results were inconclusive.
On July second, nineteen forty six, he was transferred to the Cook County
Jail, where he was placed inthe infirmary to recover from his injuries.

(31:48):
His various injuries. Police things seemsso wrong about william claims that he was
taking the rap for George. Psychologistexplained that it's a time that William made
up his duo personality like normal childrenmake up imaginary friends. He did it
to keep his diabolical deeds separate fromthe person he is, you know,

(32:10):
like was me, it was George. It was the evil too, yeah,
Sullia. He tried to portray himselfas the average son student. He
dated nice girls, and he wentto church. But then authorities were skeptical
of William's claims and suspected that hewas laying the groundwork for an insanity But

(32:37):
the confession earned widespread publicity with thepress transforming Merman to murder man, George
Merman, George to murder murder man. Oh that's clever. So handwriting analysis
did not definitively link William's handwriting tothe lipstick message really lipsticks, I remember,

(33:00):
right with lipstick? I don't knowif it is in my handwriting,
right, I don't know. Pleaseclaim that the fingerprints, though matched a
print discovered in the scene of FrancisBrown's murder. It was first reported as
a bloody smudge, remember, butnow it's a last fingerprint match. Furthermore,
a fingerprint of the small left fingerwas allegedly connected to William on the

(33:23):
ransom note. There were nine pointsof comparison at the time. Williams supporters
pointed out the FBI handbook regarding fingerprintidentification and it required twelve points of comparison
to have a positive match, butnine's close enough. Later, Chief of

(33:43):
Detectives Walter Storms confirmed that the bloodysmudge left on the door jam as I
said, was Williams. Police didsearches of William's home without a warrant,
and he lived in the college dormstoo, and they found other items that
got a lot of publicity. Theyfound a scrap book containing pictures of Nazi
officials that belonged to a war veterannamed Harry Gold. And he got it

(34:08):
when he burglarized Harry Gold, whichwas the same night Suzanne Dagnim was killed.
Gold lived by the dagnanms. Oh, so that puts William in the
area. Yeah. In addition,the police found in William's possession a stolen
copy of Psychopathia Sexual Sexualists. I'mnot sure how to say it. Yeah,

(34:32):
I yep, okay, And itwas stolen. The press focused on
it and started to depict this youngburglar as a real life mister Hyde.
The police also found a stolen medicalkit among his possessions. They announced that
the medical instruments couldn't be linked tothe murders because there was no trace of
biological material like blood, skin,and hair. But it was a big

(34:53):
sensation that they found some medical kind. He probably just stole them. There
was no biological material of anybody foundon William well, of course, and
on any of his clothes. Themedical tools were too small to really be
used for any real dissection. Pleasebelieve that William actually used the medical tools

(35:17):
because they were tiny to alter warbonds he stole. I I don't know
how you do that, but okay, apparently he could do that. Back
then, a gun was found inhis possession and they linked that to the
shooting. A cult police positive revolverhad been stolen in a burglary at the

(35:38):
apartment of some guy named Guy onDecember third, nineteen forty five. Two
nights later, bullet went through theclosed eighth floor apartment where Marian Caldwell lived
and it wounded her. William hadthat gun in his possession, so now
we know he has a god andhe is shot somebody. According to the

(35:59):
Chicago Police Department, the bullet thatinjured Marian was linked through ballistics. A
man named George I can't pronounce hislast name, so I'm not going to
He was an active soldier made astatement the day after the murder of Suzanne
that he saw this figure walking inthe direction of the Degnan's residence with a
shopping bag. Remember I mentioned thatHe said he was about five feet five

(36:21):
nine inches, saw way to hunthim, seventy pounds, about thirty five
years old, and he was wearinga fedora and a dark overcoat. But
it was too dark for George tomake out the facial features. When the
police showed him a photo of Williamon July eleventh, he couldn't identify him.
Okay, so we don't really haveanything linking him to the murder.

(36:43):
Just days later, on July sixteenth, during a hearing, George, who
couldn't identify him on the eleventh,pointed at William and said, quote,
that's the man I saw, okay, and he made a positive identification.
This sounds a little shady to me. No, no, no. The
Chicago press stated that this solidified thecase against William. I mean, now

(37:05):
we have an eye, which right, and that helped him get his indictment.
A little spoiler alert That testimony waslater discredited. Oh all right,
so my shadiness alert. Yes,it's true. It was later discredited.
A radio newscast reported on the ChicagoTribune scoop of the confession which William heard

(37:28):
in his cell. A radio newscastreported on the Chicago Tribune scoop of the
confession which William heard in his cell. He was incredulous, stating quote,
I didn't confess to anybody, Honestly, my god, what are they going
to pin on me next Williams lawyerspressured him to take a plea bargain.
That's probably a smart because at thispoint they're just there to the deal,

(37:53):
which was a topic behind closed doormeetings. As we know, stated that
william would serve one life sentence ifhe confessed to the murders of Josephine Ross,
Francis Brown, and Suzanne Tegnan.And let's not forget that he did
shoot somebody else, but that's justa footnote except to her. Yeah,

(38:15):
right. With the help of hislawyers, they began drafting a confession using
the Chicago Tribune article as a guidequote. As it turned out, the
Tribune article was very helpful as itprovided me with a lot of details I
didn't know. My attorneys rarely changedanything out right, but I couldn't tell
by their faces if I had madea mistake, or they would say,

(38:37):
now, Bill, is that whatreally happened that way? Then I would
change my story because obviously it wentagainst what was known in the Tribune.
So he had to do a confession. And then this article. Yes,
because he made a confession and itwent against what the Tribune said, So

(38:58):
he changed his confession to match thenewspaper, this all sounds really, really
shady. Both William and his parentssigned a confession. The parties agreed to
the date of July thirtieth for Williamto make his official court confession. On
that date, the defense went tothe prosecutor's office, where there were several
reporters. They were gathered around toask William questions, and the prosecutor himself

(39:22):
made a speech. William looked bewilderedand gave a noncommittal answer to report his
questions. He later blamed the prosecutor, saying, quote, it was the
prosecutor himself. After assembling all theofficials, including attorneys and policemen, he
began a preamble about how long everyonehad waited to get a confession from me,

(39:44):
but at last the truth was goingto be told. He kept emphasizing
the word truth, and I askedhim if he really wanted the truth.
He assured me that he did.Now the prosecutor made a big deal about
hearing the truth. Now I wasforced to lie to save myself. It
made me angry, so I toldhim the truth and everyone got really upset.

(40:07):
Yeah, because I feel like whathe told them isn't what they wanted
to hear, so the prosket withdrewthe previous agreement sentence of one life term
with a few minor charges, andchanged to three terms to run consecutively and
threaten William with the death penalty.You want to go to trial. Yeah,

(40:28):
you want to go to a trialbecause if you do and you loose,
I'm gonna kill you. Yeah.They threatened to charge him with a
murder of someone named a Stealcaree,even though William was attending the Gobalt School
for Wayward Boys in Indiana at thetime. William's own attorneys were really angry
at their client for the plea bargain. The Chicago Tribunes headline ride quote mute

(40:52):
heron's faces trial killer spurns mother's ferventplea to talk. Prosecutor announced that he
would press ahead to try William withthe deaths of Susanne and Francis. William
agreed with a new plea agreement.So William publicly confessed in the prosecutor's office,

(41:13):
and he talked, answered questions.He even re enacted parts of the
murderer. He did. Yes thathe confessed too. One of the police
officers that was really nice. Tohim before changed his opinion on William and
believed he was culpable when he heardhow familiar William was with victim Francis Brown's

(41:34):
apartment the way he described it andre enacted the murderer. William says he
just confessed to save his life.I don't know, I don't know.
In his confession, William stated thathe disposed of the hunting knife, which
he had used to cut up Susanne, on an elevated subway track near the
scene of the murder. The policenever searched the track, so he could

(41:58):
have it's probably still sitting there.When the reporters heard about this, they
inquired to the trek crew if they'dfound a knife. They had found a
knife on the tracks, and theykept it in a storage room, So
these reporters were like, fuck,yeah, we got a story here.
The reporters determined that the knife belongedto Guy Roderick, which I told you

(42:20):
he'd stolen from a guy named Guy. Oh yeah, yeah. What he
had stolen before was the Colt policetwenty two caliber gun, which was found
in William's possession on July thirty first. He positively identified the knife as his
William acknowledged that he threw the knifethere from the train, claiming he didn't
want his mother to see it.Okay, okay. He took full responsibility

(42:44):
for the three murders. In Augustseventh of nineteen forty six, as I
said, the prosecution had him reenactthe crime previously if some of the victims.
He re enacted the crime of Suzanne'sin public again in front of the
press. So that's two he reenacted, because one was Francis's murder.
On September fourth, William's parents andthe victims families attending the Chief Justice,

(43:09):
Justice Ward presided and William admitted hisguilt on burglary and murder charges. That
night, William tried to hang himselfand his south. He timed it to
coincide with the shift change of theprison guards, but he was discovered before
he died. Apparently he was justrealized he's so fucked. Yeah. Regarding

(43:30):
the murders, he said, quote, everyone plead I was guilty. If
I weren't alive, I thought Icould avoid being a judge guilty by the
law and thereby gained some victory.But I wasn't successful even at that.
Before I walked out into the courtroom. My counsel told me to just enter
the plea of guilty and keep mymouth shot. Afterwards, I didn't even
have a trial. Well, that'swhat happens because you took and took a

(43:52):
deal out. I'm just staying,don't cry about not having a trial and
when you're taking a plea deal.On September fifth, after further evidence was
written into the record and the prosecutionand defense made some closing statements for the
sentencing, he was sentenced to threelife terms. He was transferred to Statesville

(44:12):
Prison from the Cook County Jail.Sheriff Michael McAuley asked William if Susanne suffered
when she was killed, and Williamanswered, quote, I can't tell you
if she suffered. I didn't killher. Tell mister Dagnan to please look
after his other daughter because whoever killedSusanne is still out there. Stop it,
dude. Soon after all this arrestand stuff, his parents and younger

(44:38):
brother changed their last names to Hell. His parents divorced. Can you blame
him? No? So he washoused at Stateville Prison and Julia, Illinois,
where he learned several trades, includingtelevision and radio repair. He became
the first prisoner in Illinois history toearn a four year college degree. On

(44:59):
February six, nineteen seventy two,got a Bachelor's of Arts. He also
aided other prisoners educational progress by helpingthem earn their GEDs, and he became
what is commonly known as a jailhouselawyer. In nineteen seventy five, he
was transferred to a minimum security correctionalcenter in Vienna, Illinois, and then

(45:22):
he was transferred to another minimum securityin nineteen ninety eight. He resided in
the hospital work because he suffered fromdiabetes and I left him with some swollen
legs and limited eyesight. He endedup being confined to a wheelchair. He
tried really hard to get clemency,but he died in twenty twelve with the
age of eighty three. Oh damn, he spent all that time. So

(45:45):
let me tell you what's happened asfar as the case goes and the things
of his innocence. The first personthat really supported his innocence besides his family
or friends was Josephine Ross's daughter MaryJane. She just didn't believe he did
it. Really, there were twentynine inconsistencies with William's confession and the facts

(46:09):
of the crime. Oh, that'snot good. Twenty nine. He actually
had two polygraph exams. Both weredeclared inconclusive. However, in looking back
at them now, it seems asif most people believe that he passed them.
Really, as far as handwriting evidencegoes, that's been examined even by

(46:34):
the FBI, and they concluded thatthe two messages, one was in lipstick
and one was at ransom note didn'tmatch each other with the handwriting and they
didn't match williams. Oh damn thatfingerprint evidence the door jam that's with a
smudge. Now, no, doesn'treally remember the only nine out of twelve
points. Yeah, that's not enoughthey've decided. And I was talking about

(47:00):
the confession, like the twenty nineand consistencies. We know, we know
that a lot of people are wronglyconvicted on false confession. And as I
said, some of the details theydidn't match right. And since they beat
up Hector the janitor, and theydid that to him, he was only
like seventeen year old boy. Hemay have caved and just confessed so they

(47:24):
would stop doing what they were doing. I don't know, there's a lot
of people that believe he's innocent becausehe was just a thief. Yeah,
but then there's a gun he shotat that woman and it matched. So
I don't know. But there wereother suspects, yeah, and you know
about them. Yeah. One wasRichard Russell Thomas. He was a male

(47:45):
nurse. He sometimes posed as asurgeon. Oh. He wasn't from Chicago,
though he lived in Phoenix, Arizona. However, he was in Chicago
when Suzanne was murdered, and hehad been imprisoned for Arizona for molesting one
of his daughters. So yeah,he had previously been convicted of extortion,

(48:08):
so that kind of goes with theransom note, right, and his handwriting
was said to be quote very similarto that of the ransom note. He
and he also even confessed to killingSusanne. He confessed, but then he
recanted it after William was arrested.He's like, oh wait, never was
signed. Yeah, He's like,I didn't William did, Yeah, so

(48:31):
maybe someone else did it. Idon't know for Susanne at least, right,
because he just said they said thatthe lipstick didn't match. I don't
know, But then what are theodds of all that happening, because I
was thinking too when you were tellingme about these victims. It seems kind
of strange that he kills a sixyear old and then he kills like two
grown women, right right, Likekillers don't usually vary up their victims and

(48:53):
going through like the window and kidnapping. That's taking her and kidnapping and remembering
versus. Yeah, exactly right.The other one's like, oh, slit
her throat and whatever. So Idon't know. This is making me feel
kind of uneasy. There might havebeen two killers. Yeah, it might
have been. I don't know.I don't know, but we'll never know.

(49:13):
I'll never know because William got convictedof it and he served till he
was eighty three years old. Yeahthat's a long ass time. Maybe he
killed some of them, Yeah,maybe he did. Who knows? I
don't. I don't either, Butthat's the story of William Harrons. Harrons.
So I want to thank you guysall take the time, listen to
us, reach out to us byemail, contact at crumbs Consequence dot com,

(49:35):
and let us know did he doit? Yeah? What do you
think? I don't know. Idon't know. Either. I'd like to.
I'd like to say, oh,yeah, I'm glad the asshole's burning
in hid but I don't know.Sure, I mean, I can't.
I can't say that. I know, right, I don't like that.
I don't either. I'd like tobe able to say some of the horrible
human being. Yeah, I don'tknow if he was, I don't know.

(49:55):
Okay, all right, and youwant to do the close, sure
I can do that. You canfind us on social media at Facebook and
Instagram and at Hardcore True Crime.Sorry fucked that all up, but you
get what I mean. And thenif you would like to join our Patreon
where you get an extra weekly episodeand you can get this episode early release

(50:21):
and add free, go to Patreondot com slash TNT Crimes. You can
also find it information about it onour website, Crimes and Consequences dot com.
Or you can subscribe through your Applepodcast app if that's the way you
listen, and you will have accessto so many episodes. So if you
can't get enough of us, dowhat you can't tell? We've done so

(50:44):
many, so many, so many, so any time to go home?
It is until our next episode.Don't kill each other by