January 29, 2025 • 41 mins
Nubia Barahona was a ten-year-old little girl with blonde hair and hazel eyes who was brutally murdered before she reached her eleventh birthday. Her time on this planet was filled with horrors and abuse so terrible that many people could not even imagine it. Everyone that was put in place to help her ended up letting her down at every turn. Some people did the right thing, but it was just never enough.
SOURCES:
1) The Misery Machine Podcast--The Case of Nubia Barahona
2) Associated Press: Police: Inmates attack man accused in girl’s torture death
3) The Murder of Nubia Barahona Wikipedia Page
4) NBC Miami: Jorge Barahona, charged in 2011 twin murder-abuse case, incompetent to stand trial
5) Find a Grave: Nubia Docter Barahona
SOURCES:
1) The Misery Machine Podcast--The Case of Nubia Barahona
2) Associated Press: Police: Inmates attack man accused in girl’s torture death
3) The Murder of Nubia Barahona Wikipedia Page
4) NBC Miami: Jorge Barahona, charged in 2011 twin murder-abuse case, incompetent to stand trial
5) Find a Grave: Nubia Docter Barahona
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hi this is Shannon, and we are.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you. I'm doing pretty good.
How are you today? What is this day seven of
the winter of the Arctic winter blast? So I'm doing okay,
how about you? Yeah, It's it's fabulous. You know. I'm
sitting here in my basement and thankfully it's not freezing
(01:06):
cold down here. Yes, you know, we have like the
dehumidifiers and stuff, so I think that helps. But yeah,
my home office is in my basement. So yeah, this
weather blows. It's giving seasonal depression. Big Oh my goodness,
all the gray and now we're waking up to negative seven,
negative twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I think of like Siberia and how this is.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
The norm, Like, oh, you know, and I'm always like,
I need to prepare better with my clothes. Yeah, yeah,
I don't layer, I don't do the stuff I know
better to do, and then complain. Wow, I really need
to assess my goals. In life, Jamon means to do
an inventory. Yeah, I know. So I'm a horrific, horrific, horrific,
(01:51):
horrific story of child abuse today. So I just wanted
to give everybody that warning that if this is something
you're particularly sensitive, you may want to hip it. It's
just everybody failed this child. It's just I hate stories
like this, but her story needs to be told, so yes,
before I get into it, though, I just like to
remind everyone hit the subscriber follow button on whatever app
(02:13):
you're listening to, and the story today, I'm going to
tell you about a girl named Nubia. Nubia had a
twin brother and his name was Victor. They obviously were
fraternal twins and they were born May twenty six, two
thousand and Spokane, Washington. Throughout their lives, they were very close.
Their bond was very strong. She always looked out for him,
(02:36):
and they were born to Victor Bustillo and Sandra Doctor. However,
it wasn't exactly a happy family. Their mom suffered from
drug and alcohol abuse. Their biological mom and she had
four other kids before Nubia and Victor were born, but
all of her children had been removed from her custody
by the Department of Children and Families, so she didn't
(02:59):
have custody of a neighbor children. Nubia was born with
a medical condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, meaning her body
could not respond well distress or regulate salt and potassium levels,
and she really struggled to develop properly. Due to this condition.
She was supposed to be placed in a medical foster home,
(03:19):
but her biological mom claimed that she was sober and
she had custody therefore of the twins on and off
for about three years. In two thousand and three, they
were finally removed from their mother's care and placed with
their father, who was a fisherman. It was decided that
he would be able to give them a safe and
happy home. Seemed to love their dad and had positive
(03:42):
interactions with him, but in two thousand and four he
was charged with sexual battery of a child and Victor
and Nubia were removed from his care as well. Oh
my gosh, the child was a little girl in his neighborhood,
but he also pleaded guilty to touching the twins at
some point, so he ended up having his PRONO rights terminated.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Terminated.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, So after they left their dad, the twins were
placed in foster care with Jorgey and Carmen Barrahona in Miami, Florida.
Jorge owned a pest control business and Carmen was a homemaker.
Carmen had two biological children from a previous marriage who
were now grown, one son and a daughter. Her son, Renee,
(04:23):
had moved out on his own, but he said they
were completely normal growing up, and you know, his mom worked.
When he was little, he used to visit his mom
all the time, but once she got together with Jorgey,
his visits started to happen less and less because Jorge
creeped him out like gaps of creeps. Carmen's daughter, Jennifer,
still lived with her when she remarried and said that
(04:44):
Jorge was very controlling. She said he would get angry
if her mom did not answer the phone at her
desk when she was supposed to be at work. At
the time that Nubia and Victor were staying with them,
the Barrahonas had two other foster children in their home.
Was George, who was autistic and a year older than
the twins, and a girl I'm going to call her JB,
(05:06):
who was younger than them. However, problems started shortly after
the twins were placed in the home. A nurse reported
that Nubia was missing doctor's appointments because her adopted parents
didn't want to take her and these appointments were necessary
to care for her condition she had that medical condition.
The twins missed dunist appointments as well. Caseworkers were supposed
(05:26):
to be visiting every week, but they did not always
show up as scheduled, and when they did, they wouldn't
always speak to the kids. Due to these things, the
nurse recommended that the Barahonas not be allowed to adopt
the twins, So this is on record, okay, okay. In
two thousand and five, when the twins were in kindergarten,
Nubia told someone at school that her dad was molesting her.
(05:48):
They didn't know if she met her biological dad or
adopted dad, so DCF investigated and decided that she met
her birth father, Victor, since he had already admitted to
doing that and she was no longer in his care.
The DCF closed the case and they did not bother
investigating Orge. There was another Yes, I'm sorry, it's just
(06:09):
so fucking botherso that you're right, this is the very
first How dare.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You assume it's assume it's just.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Her biological If it's a man, it needs to be investigated.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
End of story.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Oh yeah, and she's five. Yeah, oh oh you wanst
me your okay, we're not going to investigate orgey oh,
not even investigated, not even question it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That is so fucking lazy, exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That's somebody just not doing.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The job that they are supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It's okay, it's in. This whole story is infuriating. It's
just it's disgusting. So there was another incident where Nubia
hit Peter Pants at school and when the teacher called
Carmen to bring her a change of clothes, Nubia panicked
and told the teacher that Carmen would hit her on
the bottom of the feet with a shoe. Then she
locked herself in the bathroom and cried. During this time,
(07:02):
the twins aunt and uncle, Anna and Isidrou were working
behind the scenes to get custody of the twins, and
these are biological Aunt and uncle. They had three grown children,
a big house, and plenty of love to share. Anna
was a stay at home mom and Isidrou was a teacher.
They filed all the necessary paperwork and were approved by
(07:24):
the state of Florida, but the Barrahonahs were not willing
to give up their victims. In two thousand and six,
Nubia's school found a large bruise on our face and
called DCF to report it because they suspected child abuse,
so the Barrahonahs were told to bring Nubia to an
appointment in Miami with the Department of Health's Child protection team.
(07:45):
No one seemed to care that the family didn't bother
showing up until a week later, when the bruise had
mostly disappeared. They told the state doctors that she got
the bruise from a fall, and the doctors agreed with
that story. More complaints came in two thousand and seven
when the school reported that Nubia was very thin, always hungry,
and had a bad smell. When the DCF investigated those claims,
(08:06):
the Barrahonahs insisted that this was not a hygiene problem
or neglect, but it was caused by her medical condition,
so once again the DCF dropped the investigation. When Nubia
was seven, the Barrahonahs put her on a medical bus
and sent her to one of her medical appointments all
by herself. She's seven, okay, wow. She was expected to
(08:28):
find her way to the doctor's office and get to
the appointment without help, which is ridiculous, as you know.
I mean, you've had you know, seven year olds, right,
I don't know how a healthy kid would manage to
get there. But she's got this medical condition. So she
did make it. But when she got there, she told
the doctors that she was afraid something terrible would happen
to her, and she said she wanted to kill herself.
(08:49):
This poor little girl, at the age of seven was
already contemplating suicide. Already suicidal. All right, That just says everything.
Where is this coming from home? This is coming from
the house, gotta be right. Yeah, So you're thinking maybe
this would cause someone to stand up and take notice, right,
But no, the doctors just decided she's depressed, and the
(09:11):
Foster Review panel told the Barahonas to send her to therapy,
which they never did, and the DCF still did nothing
to make them take better care of Nubia, as the
twins were still not officially adopted. The Barrahonas are still
fostering them because they're not officially adopted. They had a
guardian ad litem named Paul Newman who was appointed by
(09:35):
the court. A guardian ad litem is an attorney who
is appointed by a court to be the children's attorney
okay out for their best interest. It was his job
to look out, like I said, for the best interests
of the kids, and he didn't believe the stories that
Jorge and Carmen were telling him. He reviewed all the reports,
spoke to the staff members at the school that the
(09:56):
twins were attending. He spoke to the DCF caseworker, he
talked to Anna in Isidro, and he even went to
the school to visit the twins at lunchtime. Mister Newman
concluded that the children were not safe with the Barrahonahs
and he did not believe that they should be allowed
to adopt the twins. He even spoke out against Torgey
(10:17):
and Carmen at a pre adoption hearing in September two
thousand and seven. Some staff members from the kids' school
also spoke out at the hearing about the various incidents
that had happened throughout the time the kids had been attending.
The judge in charge ordered a psyche veil on Nubia,
but that didn't happen for five more months. When the
Barrahonahs started the adoption process in two thousand and eight,
(10:38):
they claimed that mister Newman was going quote behind their
backs and interfering with the adoption. They said they had
a personality conflict with him and that this is why
he was accusing them of neglect. They wrote letters to
people saying that they were quote raising their children with
love as any mother and father would do end quote.
(10:59):
I mean they even wrote to the governor of Florida
at the time, Charlie crist I mean they were at
this campaign. Okay, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Finally, on February twelfth,
two thousand and eight, Nubia was given the court ordered
psyche val. However, the woman giving the evaluation, whose name
was doctor Archer, did not have access to most of
the vital information related to the abuse or the reports
(11:21):
from the school. What she did have was a report
saying that the twins were excelling in school, which is
a lie because they had to repeat the first grade
for performing so badly.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Another sign, Another sign I mean first graders right right.
The details about doctor Archer's meeting with Nubia are not
recorded anywhere, but it was very brief. In the meeting,
she filed a report saying that the twins had bonded
with their foster parents and removing them from the home
would cause undue harm. She said that the adoption quote
(11:54):
was clearly in their best interest and should proceed with
no further delay end quote. According to neighbors, the Barahona's
house became a fortress in two thousand and nine. They
had high fences installed, a be Aware of Dog sign
went up, they had an electronic gate at the front entrance,
and surveillance cameras were installed. At this time, the four
(12:17):
kids started missing a lot of school because they still
had those other children right, so an employee went to
the house on The employee of DCF went to the
house to check on things. When they arrived, they noticed
that the gate was open and Jorgees truck was in
the driveway, but no answer at the door, so a
letter was dropped off. After that visit, Carmen made sure
(12:38):
to contact the school and she told them that Nubia
needed a medical procedure, which is why the kids were absent.
The school staff started to notice that the other two
adopted children, George and JB, were definitely getting treated better
than the twins for some reason. They would show up
clean and fed, but the twins were always dirty and hungry.
It also did not escape their nose when Carmen took
(13:01):
cupcakes to school for George's birthday, but when it was
time for the twins' birthday a month later, she didn't
do anything. Against all objections. Though the adoption for the
twins was finalized on May twenty ninth, two thousand and nine,
the adoption didn't seem to improve the lives of the twins. Instead,
it had the opposite effect, as you can imagine, because
now these kids are theirs, right, nobody's going to come
(13:24):
checking on them. This could be due to the fact
that in twenty ten, the neighbor said that Jorgees started
to visibly change. He was looking dishovel and started acting paranoid.
At school, Nubia's smell got so bad that the other
kids started to complain, so the school counselor stepped in.
She decided to meet with Nubia a few times a week,
(13:45):
and when she found out that Nubia was stealing food
from others because she was hungry. She made sure that
the girl was given a snack twice a day. Other
than her poor hygiene and the fact that she was
always hungry, Nubia never talked about the abuse, even after
meeting with the councilor at least twenty times. She said
she loved her mom and dad. Carmen or Hey, Nubia
(14:07):
had missed two weeks of school in May and one
in June. She asked the head of the PTA if
she would make cupcakes for her in Victor's tenth birthday,
and the woman agreed, but when she brought them in,
the twins were nit school Sadly, when Nubia returned, she
was losing her hair, she was jittery, always hungry, and
her absences were racking up. Carmen said she had a
(14:29):
medical procedure, but the note she provided was not from
the regular doctor. On June ninth, the council reported suspecting
abuse to the DCF. When the department spoke to the Barahonas,
they said that the changes were caused by her medical
condition and the medication she was taking for it. Once again,
the people at DCF believed them and dropped the case.
(14:51):
Don't like look into what medications, no doctor's or any Yeah,
a child is losing her hair and is starving. This
is so horrible. I don't even want to fucking hear
not one. Well, we didn't know. It was right in
your fucking face the whole time. She was in your
face the whole time. She is, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And then she's not even telling people like twenty two.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Oh no, I love my parents. This kid has been
beaten and degraded. I would and she wants to kill
herself at seven. Now, be kids right at the house.
They don't run, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So this is awful.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yep, I know it's it's so sad. It's just I
hate these stories.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I hate all.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
During Halloween that year, Nubia looked sick and too thin
in the family photo. After this incident, the twins were
removed from public school to be homeschooled, and by Christmas time,
only George JB. And Victor were in the family picture,
so Nubia wasn't even in a family picture. Wow. On
February time, twenty eleven, DCF got a call from a
(16:00):
therapist who was treating Carmen's granddaughter, Alessandra, who was six
at the time and she had witnessed the abuse. She
told her therapist that when she went to visit her grandma,
she saw Nubia and Victor in the bathtub and they
were tied up. They were only untied when it was
time to eat, and she was not allowed to talk
to them when she went into the bathroom. She was
(16:22):
scared of her grandma, and Carmen told her not to
tell anyone how the twins were being treated because it
was a quote family secret end quote. Alessandra later talked
about her memories from that time. She said, quote, the
twins would be stripped naked and forced to walk around
the living room end quote. Jorgey would force everyone to watch,
and he even tried to drown Victor in the pool once.
(16:44):
She said that she even witnessed Jorge and Carmen wrap
a rope around Victor's neck and choke him until he fainted.
A DCF employee named Andrea Fleary was sent out to investigate,
but when she got there, Carmen told her that Jorge
and the twins had moved out had tried to tell
Andrea about a secret, but Carmen said he was quote
low functioning end quote and sent him to watch TV.
(17:08):
Andrew made an egregious error by not checking the house
and taking Carmen at her word. She never laid eyes.
Please fuck a lazy bitch. Oh, I made an egregious mistake.
M exactly how fucking dare you? Oh you're fucking lazy bitch.
I know exactly what you did. And there's another child
(17:28):
in the house trying to tell him something, trying to
tell her something.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh exactly, low functioning.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, don't bother what you can feel people's fucking energy.
This Carmen bitch ain't selling nobody. Oh my gosh, terrible.
Between this bitch and the psychologist that Nubia saw that
didn't have any information and highly recommended the adoption. Nail
on the coffin. This is the second nail on the coffin.
(17:57):
What else? Exactly terrible? So Andrea never laid eyes on
the kids to make sure they were safe, and she
didn't check the bathtub. There's another child that came, you know, Alessandra,
and she's like, the kids are in the bathtub. She
doesn't bother to go look.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, and you can call the police.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
CPS can call the police as for an escort, a
standby for things if they feel all threatened or anything.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Fucking call them.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yep, oh yeah, get a load of this. So what
Andrea did do was she lied on the paperwork. She
checked two boxes. Once said she had notified the police,
which she didn't do, and the other box said that
the twins were safe. She skipped her investigation at nine
pm on that Friday night, and when asked why later,
she said, DCF doesn't work on weekends.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Really really wow mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah. On February twelfth, Orge took Victor to visit his
sister Laura, which was a shock as she had not
seen or talked to Jorge for three years. Laura noticed
that Victor had a cut on his lip was deep
enough to need stitches, and Orgey told her that he
and Carmen had broken up so he didn't have a
(19:07):
place to stay. He told her that Nubia was gone
because she ran away from the hotel that they were
staying at, and she obviously asked for more information, so
he changed the story and said Nubia was with Carmen.
Laura noticed that Victor had bruises and marks on his
wrists like he had been tied up, so she had
her other brother, Julio, called DCF. They told him they
(19:28):
would look into it in about twenty four hours. The
person that took a statement did not know that Andrea
Leary had been sent out to look at the twins
to make sure that they were safe. Since Julio was
not a monster like his brother. He was not satisfied
with an answer, so he went to the police. They
just gave him the number to DCF. He called again
and left a message this time, but when they called
(19:48):
him back, they told him to call the police. What's
a big run around? Yeah, So during this run around
from everyone that should have helped, Orge had already left
his sister's house with Victor. Laura continued when you to
call DCF, and went to three different police stations to
try to get some help or to put on an
amber alert or something, but the police said they couldn't
help her. Andrea Fleary called Laura back on Monday the fourteenth,
(20:11):
but it was already too late. At five am that morning,
road ranger Thomas Butler noticed a red Toyota pickup truck
on the shoulder of the freeway. It was on the
northbound side of I ninety five between Palm Beach Lakes
Boulevard and forty fifth Street in West Palm Beach. When
the truck had not moved for over two hours, he
(20:32):
called the police. West Palm Beach Fire Rescue responded to
the call and found Jorgey, who was fifty three at
the time, on the ground outside of the truck, and Victor,
who was still in the cab of the truck. When
the rescuers arrived, both Jorgey and Victor were awake, but
Victor was convulsing with seizures. Decontamination procedures were started because
(20:53):
the fireman smelled something strong when he got too close
to the truck, and there was a bunch of plastic
containers in the bat of the truck that had comicals.
Some of the bottles were missing labels, but the truck
had the name CJ. Pest Control on it, which was
the name of Jorge's business, so the investigators thought the
chemicals were pesticides. At first. One of the bottles held
(21:13):
a form of acid, which made the firefighters question the
situation for a minute, because why would an exterminator need acid.
State troopers were sent to cjpest control, but they were
not able to get a hold of anyone. They learned
that Victor was covered in acid. Little Victor was covered
in acid and it soaked the carpet in seats, which
made the air poisonous. He and Jorgey were taken to
(21:35):
separate hospitals to be treated for their injuries. Victor was
taken at Saint Mary's Medical Center first, but he was
transferred two days later to Jackson Memorial Hospital's Burn Center
in Miami. He had severe internal reactions from breathing in
the toxic fumes from the truck and had chemical burns
over large parts of his body. During his examination, the
(21:57):
doctors found a lot of injuries that seemed to be
from previous as at some point Victor had a broken
collar bone and a broken arm. He had scars on
his button, lower stomach, and rope marks on both of
his wrists. While Victor was in the hospital, mister Newman,
the attorney, went to visit him. At first, Victor could
barely speak, but only two weeks later he was healed
(22:17):
enough to be released, and he was talking about cartoons,
Pokemon cards, and cheeseburgers. Victor was released on March second,
twenty eleven, and placed in a therapeutic foster home. The
foster parents have additional training to deal with trauma and
provide an environment where kids can begin to heal. That's
what that means to be therapeutic foster. Due to all
(22:40):
the chemicals laying around, a city has Matt Team and
the state Department of Environmental Protection showed up to decontaminate
the whole area where that truck was. A deep contractor
was in the bed of the truck sorting through everything
when he found a black garbage bag. When he opened it,
he found human remains. The FBI was called in and
(23:01):
they helped clear the way so that the county forensic
investigators could safely examine the body. At eight thirty pm
on Tuesday, the body was taken to the Medical Examiner's
office for an autopsy. They didn't release the identity for
two days, but it was finally known that the body
belonged to Nubia. She was badly decomposed and her body
was covered in pinesaal, gasoline, liquid, chlorine, chlorine tablets, and draino.
(23:27):
The autopsy results concluded that Nubia was beaten to death.
She died on February eleventh, twenty eleven, the same day
that DCF employ Andrea Fleary was sent to the house
to investigate a call to their abuse hotline, but instead
lied on the paperwork and said the kids were safe
without even seeing them. The police report said that Jorge
allegedly quote repeatedly punched and beat Nubia, who screamed and
(23:51):
cried until she was dead end quote. Later they spoke
to Victor and he confirmed the story. He said he
last saw Nubia on February eleventh. They were naked and
had been tied up in the bathtub for a few days.
When Jorge took Nubia to one of the bedrooms, he
then heard sounds of Orgete punching and beating her for
a long time. He said he heard her screams, but
(24:13):
then she stopped making noise and he thought she was dead.
When he asked Carmen where Nubia was, she said they
sent her to California. Once Nubia's body was found, Alessandra,
who was Carmen's granddaughter, if you remember, she was removed
from the care of her mother, Jennifer Perez and placed
with her father, Yovanni Perez. A judge essentially banned not
(24:34):
only Jennifer, but any member of her family from having
any contact with the little girl. A member of DCF
said that Alessandra should no longer be with her mother
because quote the mother, Jennifer Perez, not only psychologically abused
the child by exposing her to the torture of the twins,
but also threatened the child over and over to keep
quiet and encouraged her to be complicit in the deception,
(24:55):
including a calculated effort by the mother to keep the
child from disclosing it to DCF officials end quote. Well,
when she did disclose it, nobody fucking did anything. So that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When the story became known to the public, it pissed
off the citizens of Florida, as you can imagine, their
anger was aimed at the Department of Children and Families
and the way they handled or didn't handle the twins case.
There was a hearing and a judge named Cindy Liederman,
who was furious at Andrea Fleary's actions, spoke to her
(25:27):
about the investigation. Andrea told her that when George tried
to talk to her about the abuse, it was late
at night. Liederman responded to her with, quote, so we
don't do investigations on weekends, Is that what you're trying
to tell me? And quote Andrea had said she stopped
her investigation at nine pm because quote, we don't do
investigations on weekends. End quote. The DCF secretary David Wilkins
(25:49):
tried to defend Andrea, saying she was just nervous during
the hearing. He said, quote, we do investigations twenty four
to seven. We have employees who work weekends. We have
employees who worked now end quote. Initially miss Fleury was
given paid administrative leave, but then she was eventually fired.
When mister Wilkins was asked how they ignored all the
signs of Nubia's abuse, he claimed, quote the medical conditions
(26:11):
of the children complicated the decision making of our investigators.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Oh, so it's the children's medical conditions fault. Ultimately you're
blaming the children.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Not yeah, right for people criticizing the department, he said, quote,
these people have been deceiving the system for quite a
long time. End quote. So I guess you know, they
were just another you know, uh, oh, they were a
victim of these people, of Carmen and Jorges's deception. Okay, yeah,
oh right, they're the victim. He did create a panel
(26:42):
of professional individuals to look into how the case was handled,
and the words they use and describe their findings were
quote inept end quote, and a quote failure of common
sense and listening end quote. Yes, some very fucking basic things.
Listening and common sense. Right, yeah, I hate thee Sometimes
(27:05):
I just hate people, oh for sure. Oh yeah, I
hate people. They're just He himself criticized the DCF abuse
hotline by calling it a quote low cost call center
end quote. When he referenced one of the calls that
reported the barahonas, he said, quote, they have a low
cost call center mentality. You don't want to get off
(27:25):
the phone. In this situation, you could tell the operator
wanted to get off the phone because he's measured by
how long his call is end quote. He says. Measurements
are these, I know, Yeah, your metrics are you trying
to if you're helping? Yeah, and if you victim tackle bell,
we gotta get him in. We have thirty seconds skin me, right,
(27:48):
I know exactly, He says. He plans to make changes
and correct these situations which hopefully happened, so these atrocities
like this can possibly we stop next time. The head
of the Guardian ad LTEM program from Miami Dade County,
Sonia Fair, was questioned about why the twins were adopted
even though their guardian ADLTA, Mister Newman, had objections. Said
(28:10):
they did everything they could at the time, but the
judge that was in charge of the adoption heard other
evidence and decided to place them with the Barahonas I mean,
I don't blame him. I don't blame mister Newman.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
He tried.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Gosh Porgey was arrested on February sixteenth, twenty eleven, on
child abuse charges against Victor, and he was moved from
the Columbia Hospital to the Palm Beach County Jail. While
they had him in custody, he waved his Miranda rights
and confessed that he was so upset by the death
of his daughter at Nubia that he drove to Palm
Beach County planning to commit suicide by setting himself on fire.
(28:43):
He said he chose the spot on I ninety five
so that he would be easily found. Then he gave
Victor sleeping pills, and when Victor fell asleep with his
head in his Orgees lap, he poured gas over his
own head. When he tried to light it, he could
not do it because he didn't want to take Victor
with him. They had found a red gas tank in
his truck, but it had been filled with acid, and
(29:05):
when the police asked him why he was not as
burned as Victor, he said some of the gas must
have splashed on him. Yeah, okay, yeah. The police investigation
found that Jorge's story did not line up with Victor's injuries,
and once they found the old injuries that Victor had,
they figured out that the kids were being abused. When
they asked Jorge about it, he said the twins were
(29:26):
trying to poison everyone with rat poison, so he had
to punish them. He also said he thought that Nubia
was putting baby oil in his drinks, which was odd
because the police had taken custody of a bag that
he left at his sister's house and inside of it
was baby oil, used tape, and a pump that a
man might get at a sex shop. Oh yeah, I'm
grossed out, fucking gross, right, he claimed that he would
(29:49):
punish them by taping their hands and feet with clear
packing tape, and he would have them sit in a
corner of the dining room, or he would take them
into the bathroom and close the door to pray for
them to accept Jesus. However, when they spoke to the children,
they had vastly different stories. According to the kids, the
abuse started as soon as the twins moved in. Jorge
would beat, punch, and restrain them. He would take their
(30:11):
wrists and ankles and put them in the tub for days.
When he did not want them to fight back, he
gave them sleeping pills or allergy meds, and they were
only allowed to eat once a week.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
When they were allowed to eat, it was only milk
and bread, but the rest of the family ate regular meals.
Carmen's granddaughter asked her once why they were only allowed
milk and bread, and she said it was because it's
what they deserve. If there were any leftovers or scraps
from the regular meals, they would be given to the
dog rather than let the twins have them. According to George,
Jorgey was the worst and he hurt them the most,
(30:45):
but Carmen would also hurt Nubia. Later, when Victor was
put into his new foster home after the death of
his sister, he started to open up to his new mom.
He saw a picture of water and remembered that Jorge
would sometimes pour ice water or bleach over them and
Nubia while they were tied up in the bathtub. He
said that their homeschooling only lasted two days. Then the
(31:05):
beating started to be constant. Jorge shaved both of their
heads and would use tape or wire on them, but
the wire would cut Nubia's feet. She would then force
to put them into pine salt or chlorox. He showed
his mom how he would be tied up. Sometimes he
was hog tied or forced to crouch into a ball.
He listed some of the horrific things that were done
(31:26):
to him at the hands of Jorge Marahona, including hot
sauce being poured in his eyes, nose, and mouth. His
eyes were glut shut, he was forced to eat a cockroach,
his mouth was taped, he was beaten with a mop handle,
and jorgeb would put a plastic bag over his head
and choke him until it passed out. Multiple times. Wow
hell is not good enough.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Right, And I know I've heard, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I do have a hope that in prison, like there's
that hierarchy, like you don't fuck with kids and they
find out you've heard it child. Oh yeah, he's getting that.
It was same with her, you don't write. While in jail,
Orgey was told he had to go to a hearing
for his felony child abuse charged, so he tried to
(32:11):
hurt himself by jumping backwards off of the sink in
his cell and landing on his head. They didn't examine
determine he was competent to go before a judge, but
he refused to cooperate with the deputies, so he didn't
show up for that hearing. His mail was set for
one million dollars at the hearing, and he tried to
hurt himself again. This time. He was sent to the
hospital for a CT scan, but sent back to jail
(32:32):
and put in the mental health unit. Carmen Barahona was
questioned and initially she told the investigators that her and
Jorge had been separated for six months, but that was
a lie because they had never been apart. Now other
two adopted children were removed from the home and temporarily
given to her mother before going back to foster care.
She tried to lie and say that she didn't know
(32:53):
what was happening under her own ruff. Then she said
that Jorge was crazy and that he would threaten her
if she said anything. She did it admit to witnessing
Jorge putting the twins in the corner and tying them
up with tape a few times. In February, she filed
for our divorce from Jorge, and she was arrested in
charge with first degree murder. On March fifth. She was
held without bond, and together the couple was indicted on
(33:16):
eighteen charges, one count of first degree murder, eight counts
of child abuse resulting in great bodily harm, one count
of child neglect resulting in great bodily harm, six counts
of child neglect to no great harm, one count of
child neglect no great bodily harm, and one count of
mutilating a dead body. They both faced the death penalty
if convicted, and they both pleaded not guilty. On February
(33:39):
twenty first, twenty twenty, Carmen Barahona changed her plea to
guilty for first degree murder and multiple counts of aggravated
child abuse. She also got a plea deal to testify
against Horge. She received life in prison, but if she
goes back on her word, she could still face the
death penalty. As of July twenty fourth, Jorge Barahonists still
(34:00):
has not gone to trial for his heinous crimes against
his children. And that's why they're saying, you know, Carmen,
if she goes back on her word for testifying. She
took this plea four years ago, right almost five, So
he still hasn't gone to trial. He has managed to
postpone his trial longer than poor Nubia was alive. His
trial was originally supposed to begin on September twenty eighth,
(34:23):
twenty fifteen, but his attorneys requested more time. On February
twenty six, twenty twenty, Orges lawyers requested to have his trial.
They delayed again because they found out about Carmen's deal
and because of the COVID pandemic at the time. The
reason for Jorgees incarceration. He was attacked, like you said,
five other inmates in the Miami Dade County jail while
(34:45):
he was sleeping on March first, twenty twenty one. According
to a police report, the inmates had messed with the
surveillance cameras, so the attack was not recorded. After the attack,
he had bruises on his face, a cut in his nose,
and a nosebleed. His injuries were nothing compared to what
he put those twins through. Right, I'm like, oh gosh,
in my opinion, where they went easy. I mean absolutely
(35:07):
Da got beaten to death. Not that I'm condoning it, no,
gosh no, But I'm not against it. I mean not
against the street justice at all. For a five against
one fight, the damage could have been much worse. The
five men were charged with battery by a detainee and
their ages were between twenty and twenty nine. As another
(35:28):
way to postpone his trial, Jorge fired his legal team
in August of twenty twenty one, so the judge had
to appoint a new one. Then to add insult to injury.
On March first, twenty twenty four, Judge Andreel Wolfson had
decided that Jorge Barahona is not competent to stand trial
based on an evaluation done by three psychologists. Two out
(35:49):
of the three said he was incompetent enough to be
admitted to a mental health institution. So he was admitted
to a facility for treatment, and if his condition improves
and he is able to stand trial, he will be
turned to Miami Dade County Corrections and his trial were resumed.
A state attorney named Catherine Fernandez Rundel said, quote, I
regret that the horrific case against Jorge Barrahona is yet
(36:10):
again delayed. The psychologist's opinions that he cannot assist his
new attorney in mounting his own legal defense is frustrating
to all. Hopefully he will be found to be competent
to stand trial soon and this case will finally move forward,
providing justice for Nubia and her twin brother Victor.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
End quote.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
No amount of money will bring Nubia back or take
the horrors Victor lived through away. But in April of
twenty seventeen, he was awarded three point seventy five million
dollars in a settlement with the Florida Department of Children
and Families since they quote poorly handled the case of
the Barrahona twins end quote, and the department quote had
many red flags they did not pay attention to end quote,
(36:51):
so we can hope that his future will at least
be brighter. Nubia's final resting place is at Hillcrest Memorial
Park in West Palm Beach, Florida, and hopefully when she
will receive the justice she deserves.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
He definitely deserves. Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Can't even believe twenty eleven. What fucking we're fourteen years
in our justice system? This is what we're settling for?
Is this what we're settling for? I don't like our
justice system. I don't know why it was postponed to
begin with for so long. I understand how did we
get to the point where we're ten years later in
twenty twenty one. He's firing like, why didn't the trial
(37:28):
take place? And I know they were delays because of
COVID blah blah blah, But yeah, you said he was
arrested in twenty eleven. Don't give me a fucking We
got a full dock at bullshit for fourteen fucking years.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And now he's not competent to stand trial? Fuck right off.
It irritates me to no end when I hear like this, because,
like you said, this is our justice system.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Now, this is unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I don't even fucking care, you know, I get to
the point where I could just like fucking you know,
drive down to Fuckings Staid and like fucking crack some
skulls or something.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right, Oh exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I want to see what happened to Andrea Fleary. I
want to know. I want to know what happened to
everybody who filled this child.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yes, these children who has a hand in it, has.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
There's you know what's that they're complicit in it. Russell Crowe,
he started in It reminds me of the movie. It's
called The Pope's Exorcist, and it's so good. But I
do remember, like in the beginning, Leah Ill'll they'll have
like a saying on there that you just kind of read,
and I remember something. The end sentence was, your sins
(38:38):
will find you. I think, you know, to me, it's
just another way of saying karma, right, Karma is a bitch.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
But you know, when you're raised Catholic and the Lord
is used against you in many ways, when someone says
your sins will find you, we know that's true.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah right, oh yeah, he like I said, Hell's too
good for Jorge? How could you do this? To a child?
How could you treat children like? And Carmen like, is
she just afraid of poorgey? Like, oh, she's fucking complicit.
How do you I don't even say. It's not even
natural as a mom for me to not want to
protect young girls, young boys. You're sending your six year
(39:16):
old over to grandma's house and your fucking six year
old is seeing all this shit, and she comes, she
tells you, and be like, oh, she don't tell anybody?
Are you fucking kidding me? You're in the six year
old is the lonely one with a fucking moral compass?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Right? I know that this is wrong.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
To know that this is wrong and to fucking say
something I don't know, it just fucking pisses me off.
This poor child, these poor kids. We have done fucking
child abuse stories and I I just don't know. I can't.
There's fucking monsters out there, I swear, the most innocent
among us, and.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's who you target with such darkness.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, mom wearing bleach, making her soak her feet in
fucking cuts? Yes, Like, what the fuck on shore? You?
I know? I just oh my god, so.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Well, thank you?
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I mean, you're right, We're absolutely standing for a Nubia's
justice and Victor is saying, Victor's just all the kids,
all the kids. So so thank you for bringing this
so we can welcome. We're on our mind and hope
for the best. Yeah, what we can do, but you know,
he becomes competent to stand trial and takes his ass
out of the mental facility and goes to fucking prison
(40:32):
and get in his ass. And so anyway, thank you
Shannon for listening, and thank you for anyone that hung
in there and listened to us this week. Don't forget
to hit the subscribe button or follow button if you'd
like to hear more episodes from Shannon and I or
from Talia and I from way back when. You can
join our Patreon it's p e A t R e
o n dot com slash t n T Crimes, or
(40:55):
you can go on the Apple podcast app and you
can join there and you'll get one episode a week
if you join our first degree and you get one
new episode a week that we don't release to the public.
So anyway, go to our website Crimes Andconsequences dot com.
You can listen there, or you can find out more
information about joining Patreon. Or joining Apple. And I think
(41:17):
that's all the business for today. So thank you Shannis.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Oh well, thank you Tanya. I love it.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And until our next episode, I love you and i'll
see you later. I love you, love you, Bye.
This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hi this is Shannon, and we are.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you. I'm doing pretty good.
How are you today? What is this day seven of
the winter of the Arctic winter blast? So I'm doing okay,
how about you? Yeah, It's it's fabulous. You know. I'm
sitting here in my basement and thankfully it's not freezing
(01:06):
cold down here. Yes, you know, we have like the
dehumidifiers and stuff, so I think that helps. But yeah,
my home office is in my basement. So yeah, this
weather blows. It's giving seasonal depression. Big Oh my goodness,
all the gray and now we're waking up to negative seven,
negative twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I think of like Siberia and how this is.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
The norm, Like, oh, you know, and I'm always like,
I need to prepare better with my clothes. Yeah, yeah,
I don't layer, I don't do the stuff I know
better to do, and then complain. Wow, I really need
to assess my goals. In life, Jamon means to do
an inventory. Yeah, I know. So I'm a horrific, horrific, horrific,
(01:51):
horrific story of child abuse today. So I just wanted
to give everybody that warning that if this is something
you're particularly sensitive, you may want to hip it. It's
just everybody failed this child. It's just I hate stories
like this, but her story needs to be told, so yes,
before I get into it, though, I just like to
remind everyone hit the subscriber follow button on whatever app
(02:13):
you're listening to, and the story today, I'm going to
tell you about a girl named Nubia. Nubia had a
twin brother and his name was Victor. They obviously were
fraternal twins and they were born May twenty six, two
thousand and Spokane, Washington. Throughout their lives, they were very close.
Their bond was very strong. She always looked out for him,
(02:36):
and they were born to Victor Bustillo and Sandra Doctor. However,
it wasn't exactly a happy family. Their mom suffered from
drug and alcohol abuse. Their biological mom and she had
four other kids before Nubia and Victor were born, but
all of her children had been removed from her custody
by the Department of Children and Families, so she didn't
(02:59):
have custody of a neighbor children. Nubia was born with
a medical condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, meaning her body
could not respond well distress or regulate salt and potassium levels,
and she really struggled to develop properly. Due to this condition.
She was supposed to be placed in a medical foster home,
(03:19):
but her biological mom claimed that she was sober and
she had custody therefore of the twins on and off
for about three years. In two thousand and three, they
were finally removed from their mother's care and placed with
their father, who was a fisherman. It was decided that
he would be able to give them a safe and
happy home. Seemed to love their dad and had positive
(03:42):
interactions with him, but in two thousand and four he
was charged with sexual battery of a child and Victor
and Nubia were removed from his care as well. Oh
my gosh, the child was a little girl in his neighborhood,
but he also pleaded guilty to touching the twins at
some point, so he ended up having his PRONO rights terminated.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Terminated.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, So after they left their dad, the twins were
placed in foster care with Jorgey and Carmen Barrahona in Miami, Florida.
Jorge owned a pest control business and Carmen was a homemaker.
Carmen had two biological children from a previous marriage who
were now grown, one son and a daughter. Her son, Renee,
(04:23):
had moved out on his own, but he said they
were completely normal growing up, and you know, his mom worked.
When he was little, he used to visit his mom
all the time, but once she got together with Jorgey,
his visits started to happen less and less because Jorge
creeped him out like gaps of creeps. Carmen's daughter, Jennifer,
still lived with her when she remarried and said that
(04:44):
Jorge was very controlling. She said he would get angry
if her mom did not answer the phone at her
desk when she was supposed to be at work. At
the time that Nubia and Victor were staying with them,
the Barrahonas had two other foster children in their home.
Was George, who was autistic and a year older than
the twins, and a girl I'm going to call her JB,
(05:06):
who was younger than them. However, problems started shortly after
the twins were placed in the home. A nurse reported
that Nubia was missing doctor's appointments because her adopted parents
didn't want to take her and these appointments were necessary
to care for her condition she had that medical condition.
The twins missed dunist appointments as well. Caseworkers were supposed
(05:26):
to be visiting every week, but they did not always
show up as scheduled, and when they did, they wouldn't
always speak to the kids. Due to these things, the
nurse recommended that the Barahonas not be allowed to adopt
the twins, So this is on record, okay, okay. In
two thousand and five, when the twins were in kindergarten,
Nubia told someone at school that her dad was molesting her.
(05:48):
They didn't know if she met her biological dad or
adopted dad, so DCF investigated and decided that she met
her birth father, Victor, since he had already admitted to
doing that and she was no longer in his care.
The DCF closed the case and they did not bother
investigating Orge. There was another Yes, I'm sorry, it's just
(06:09):
so fucking botherso that you're right, this is the very
first How dare.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You assume it's assume it's just.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Her biological If it's a man, it needs to be investigated.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
End of story.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Oh yeah, and she's five. Yeah, oh oh you wanst
me your okay, we're not going to investigate orgey oh,
not even investigated, not even question it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That is so fucking lazy, exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That's somebody just not doing.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The job that they are supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It's okay, it's in. This whole story is infuriating. It's
just it's disgusting. So there was another incident where Nubia
hit Peter Pants at school and when the teacher called
Carmen to bring her a change of clothes, Nubia panicked
and told the teacher that Carmen would hit her on
the bottom of the feet with a shoe. Then she
locked herself in the bathroom and cried. During this time,
(07:02):
the twins aunt and uncle, Anna and Isidrou were working
behind the scenes to get custody of the twins, and
these are biological Aunt and uncle. They had three grown children,
a big house, and plenty of love to share. Anna
was a stay at home mom and Isidrou was a teacher.
They filed all the necessary paperwork and were approved by
(07:24):
the state of Florida, but the Barrahonahs were not willing
to give up their victims. In two thousand and six,
Nubia's school found a large bruise on our face and
called DCF to report it because they suspected child abuse,
so the Barrahonahs were told to bring Nubia to an
appointment in Miami with the Department of Health's Child protection team.
(07:45):
No one seemed to care that the family didn't bother
showing up until a week later, when the bruise had
mostly disappeared. They told the state doctors that she got
the bruise from a fall, and the doctors agreed with
that story. More complaints came in two thousand and seven
when the school reported that Nubia was very thin, always hungry,
and had a bad smell. When the DCF investigated those claims,
(08:06):
the Barrahonahs insisted that this was not a hygiene problem
or neglect, but it was caused by her medical condition,
so once again the DCF dropped the investigation. When Nubia
was seven, the Barrahonahs put her on a medical bus
and sent her to one of her medical appointments all
by herself. She's seven, okay, wow. She was expected to
(08:28):
find her way to the doctor's office and get to
the appointment without help, which is ridiculous, as you know.
I mean, you've had you know, seven year olds, right,
I don't know how a healthy kid would manage to
get there. But she's got this medical condition. So she
did make it. But when she got there, she told
the doctors that she was afraid something terrible would happen
to her, and she said she wanted to kill herself.
(08:49):
This poor little girl, at the age of seven was
already contemplating suicide. Already suicidal. All right, That just says everything.
Where is this coming from home? This is coming from
the house, gotta be right. Yeah, So you're thinking maybe
this would cause someone to stand up and take notice, right,
But no, the doctors just decided she's depressed, and the
(09:11):
Foster Review panel told the Barahonas to send her to therapy,
which they never did, and the DCF still did nothing
to make them take better care of Nubia, as the
twins were still not officially adopted. The Barrahonas are still
fostering them because they're not officially adopted. They had a
guardian ad litem named Paul Newman who was appointed by
(09:35):
the court. A guardian ad litem is an attorney who
is appointed by a court to be the children's attorney
okay out for their best interest. It was his job
to look out, like I said, for the best interests
of the kids, and he didn't believe the stories that
Jorge and Carmen were telling him. He reviewed all the reports,
spoke to the staff members at the school that the
(09:56):
twins were attending. He spoke to the DCF caseworker, he
talked to Anna in Isidro, and he even went to
the school to visit the twins at lunchtime. Mister Newman
concluded that the children were not safe with the Barrahonahs
and he did not believe that they should be allowed
to adopt the twins. He even spoke out against Torgey
(10:17):
and Carmen at a pre adoption hearing in September two
thousand and seven. Some staff members from the kids' school
also spoke out at the hearing about the various incidents
that had happened throughout the time the kids had been attending.
The judge in charge ordered a psyche veil on Nubia,
but that didn't happen for five more months. When the
Barrahonahs started the adoption process in two thousand and eight,
(10:38):
they claimed that mister Newman was going quote behind their
backs and interfering with the adoption. They said they had
a personality conflict with him and that this is why
he was accusing them of neglect. They wrote letters to
people saying that they were quote raising their children with
love as any mother and father would do end quote.
(10:59):
I mean they even wrote to the governor of Florida
at the time, Charlie crist I mean they were at
this campaign. Okay, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Finally, on February twelfth,
two thousand and eight, Nubia was given the court ordered
psyche val. However, the woman giving the evaluation, whose name
was doctor Archer, did not have access to most of
the vital information related to the abuse or the reports
(11:21):
from the school. What she did have was a report
saying that the twins were excelling in school, which is
a lie because they had to repeat the first grade
for performing so badly.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Another sign, Another sign I mean first graders right right.
The details about doctor Archer's meeting with Nubia are not
recorded anywhere, but it was very brief. In the meeting,
she filed a report saying that the twins had bonded
with their foster parents and removing them from the home
would cause undue harm. She said that the adoption quote
(11:54):
was clearly in their best interest and should proceed with
no further delay end quote. According to neighbors, the Barahona's
house became a fortress in two thousand and nine. They
had high fences installed, a be Aware of Dog sign
went up, they had an electronic gate at the front entrance,
and surveillance cameras were installed. At this time, the four
(12:17):
kids started missing a lot of school because they still
had those other children right, so an employee went to
the house on The employee of DCF went to the
house to check on things. When they arrived, they noticed
that the gate was open and Jorgees truck was in
the driveway, but no answer at the door, so a
letter was dropped off. After that visit, Carmen made sure
(12:38):
to contact the school and she told them that Nubia
needed a medical procedure, which is why the kids were absent.
The school staff started to notice that the other two
adopted children, George and JB, were definitely getting treated better
than the twins for some reason. They would show up
clean and fed, but the twins were always dirty and hungry.
It also did not escape their nose when Carmen took
(13:01):
cupcakes to school for George's birthday, but when it was
time for the twins' birthday a month later, she didn't
do anything. Against all objections. Though the adoption for the
twins was finalized on May twenty ninth, two thousand and nine,
the adoption didn't seem to improve the lives of the twins. Instead,
it had the opposite effect, as you can imagine, because
now these kids are theirs, right, nobody's going to come
(13:24):
checking on them. This could be due to the fact
that in twenty ten, the neighbor said that Jorgees started
to visibly change. He was looking dishovel and started acting paranoid.
At school, Nubia's smell got so bad that the other
kids started to complain, so the school counselor stepped in.
She decided to meet with Nubia a few times a week,
(13:45):
and when she found out that Nubia was stealing food
from others because she was hungry. She made sure that
the girl was given a snack twice a day. Other
than her poor hygiene and the fact that she was
always hungry, Nubia never talked about the abuse, even after
meeting with the councilor at least twenty times. She said
she loved her mom and dad. Carmen or Hey, Nubia
(14:07):
had missed two weeks of school in May and one
in June. She asked the head of the PTA if
she would make cupcakes for her in Victor's tenth birthday,
and the woman agreed, but when she brought them in,
the twins were nit school Sadly, when Nubia returned, she
was losing her hair, she was jittery, always hungry, and
her absences were racking up. Carmen said she had a
(14:29):
medical procedure, but the note she provided was not from
the regular doctor. On June ninth, the council reported suspecting
abuse to the DCF. When the department spoke to the Barahonas,
they said that the changes were caused by her medical
condition and the medication she was taking for it. Once again,
the people at DCF believed them and dropped the case.
(14:51):
Don't like look into what medications, no doctor's or any Yeah,
a child is losing her hair and is starving. This
is so horrible. I don't even want to fucking hear
not one. Well, we didn't know. It was right in
your fucking face the whole time. She was in your
face the whole time. She is, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And then she's not even telling people like twenty two.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Oh no, I love my parents. This kid has been
beaten and degraded. I would and she wants to kill
herself at seven. Now, be kids right at the house.
They don't run, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So this is awful.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yep, I know it's it's so sad. It's just I
hate these stories.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I hate all.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
During Halloween that year, Nubia looked sick and too thin
in the family photo. After this incident, the twins were
removed from public school to be homeschooled, and by Christmas time,
only George JB. And Victor were in the family picture,
so Nubia wasn't even in a family picture. Wow. On
February time, twenty eleven, DCF got a call from a
(16:00):
therapist who was treating Carmen's granddaughter, Alessandra, who was six
at the time and she had witnessed the abuse. She
told her therapist that when she went to visit her grandma,
she saw Nubia and Victor in the bathtub and they
were tied up. They were only untied when it was
time to eat, and she was not allowed to talk
to them when she went into the bathroom. She was
(16:22):
scared of her grandma, and Carmen told her not to
tell anyone how the twins were being treated because it
was a quote family secret end quote. Alessandra later talked
about her memories from that time. She said, quote, the
twins would be stripped naked and forced to walk around
the living room end quote. Jorgey would force everyone to watch,
and he even tried to drown Victor in the pool once.
(16:44):
She said that she even witnessed Jorge and Carmen wrap
a rope around Victor's neck and choke him until he fainted.
A DCF employee named Andrea Fleary was sent out to investigate,
but when she got there, Carmen told her that Jorge
and the twins had moved out had tried to tell
Andrea about a secret, but Carmen said he was quote
low functioning end quote and sent him to watch TV.
(17:08):
Andrew made an egregious error by not checking the house
and taking Carmen at her word. She never laid eyes.
Please fuck a lazy bitch. Oh, I made an egregious mistake.
M exactly how fucking dare you? Oh you're fucking lazy bitch.
I know exactly what you did. And there's another child
(17:28):
in the house trying to tell him something, trying to
tell her something.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh exactly, low functioning.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, don't bother what you can feel people's fucking energy.
This Carmen bitch ain't selling nobody. Oh my gosh, terrible.
Between this bitch and the psychologist that Nubia saw that
didn't have any information and highly recommended the adoption. Nail
on the coffin. This is the second nail on the coffin.
(17:57):
What else? Exactly terrible? So Andrea never laid eyes on
the kids to make sure they were safe, and she
didn't check the bathtub. There's another child that came, you know, Alessandra,
and she's like, the kids are in the bathtub. She
doesn't bother to go look.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, and you can call the police.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
CPS can call the police as for an escort, a
standby for things if they feel all threatened or anything.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Fucking call them.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yep, oh yeah, get a load of this. So what
Andrea did do was she lied on the paperwork. She
checked two boxes. Once said she had notified the police,
which she didn't do, and the other box said that
the twins were safe. She skipped her investigation at nine
pm on that Friday night, and when asked why later,
she said, DCF doesn't work on weekends.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Really really wow mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah. On February twelfth, Orge took Victor to visit his
sister Laura, which was a shock as she had not
seen or talked to Jorge for three years. Laura noticed
that Victor had a cut on his lip was deep
enough to need stitches, and Orgey told her that he
and Carmen had broken up so he didn't have a
(19:07):
place to stay. He told her that Nubia was gone
because she ran away from the hotel that they were
staying at, and she obviously asked for more information, so
he changed the story and said Nubia was with Carmen.
Laura noticed that Victor had bruises and marks on his
wrists like he had been tied up, so she had
her other brother, Julio, called DCF. They told him they
(19:28):
would look into it in about twenty four hours. The
person that took a statement did not know that Andrea
Leary had been sent out to look at the twins
to make sure that they were safe. Since Julio was
not a monster like his brother. He was not satisfied
with an answer, so he went to the police. They
just gave him the number to DCF. He called again
and left a message this time, but when they called
(19:48):
him back, they told him to call the police. What's
a big run around? Yeah, So during this run around
from everyone that should have helped, Orge had already left
his sister's house with Victor. Laura continued when you to
call DCF, and went to three different police stations to
try to get some help or to put on an
amber alert or something, but the police said they couldn't
help her. Andrea Fleary called Laura back on Monday the fourteenth,
(20:11):
but it was already too late. At five am that morning,
road ranger Thomas Butler noticed a red Toyota pickup truck
on the shoulder of the freeway. It was on the
northbound side of I ninety five between Palm Beach Lakes
Boulevard and forty fifth Street in West Palm Beach. When
the truck had not moved for over two hours, he
(20:32):
called the police. West Palm Beach Fire Rescue responded to
the call and found Jorgey, who was fifty three at
the time, on the ground outside of the truck, and Victor,
who was still in the cab of the truck. When
the rescuers arrived, both Jorgey and Victor were awake, but
Victor was convulsing with seizures. Decontamination procedures were started because
(20:53):
the fireman smelled something strong when he got too close
to the truck, and there was a bunch of plastic
containers in the bat of the truck that had comicals.
Some of the bottles were missing labels, but the truck
had the name CJ. Pest Control on it, which was
the name of Jorge's business, so the investigators thought the
chemicals were pesticides. At first. One of the bottles held
(21:13):
a form of acid, which made the firefighters question the
situation for a minute, because why would an exterminator need acid.
State troopers were sent to cjpest control, but they were
not able to get a hold of anyone. They learned
that Victor was covered in acid. Little Victor was covered
in acid and it soaked the carpet in seats, which
made the air poisonous. He and Jorgey were taken to
(21:35):
separate hospitals to be treated for their injuries. Victor was
taken at Saint Mary's Medical Center first, but he was
transferred two days later to Jackson Memorial Hospital's Burn Center
in Miami. He had severe internal reactions from breathing in
the toxic fumes from the truck and had chemical burns
over large parts of his body. During his examination, the
(21:57):
doctors found a lot of injuries that seemed to be
from previous as at some point Victor had a broken
collar bone and a broken arm. He had scars on
his button, lower stomach, and rope marks on both of
his wrists. While Victor was in the hospital, mister Newman,
the attorney, went to visit him. At first, Victor could
barely speak, but only two weeks later he was healed
(22:17):
enough to be released, and he was talking about cartoons,
Pokemon cards, and cheeseburgers. Victor was released on March second,
twenty eleven, and placed in a therapeutic foster home. The
foster parents have additional training to deal with trauma and
provide an environment where kids can begin to heal. That's
what that means to be therapeutic foster. Due to all
(22:40):
the chemicals laying around, a city has Matt Team and
the state Department of Environmental Protection showed up to decontaminate
the whole area where that truck was. A deep contractor
was in the bed of the truck sorting through everything
when he found a black garbage bag. When he opened it,
he found human remains. The FBI was called in and
(23:01):
they helped clear the way so that the county forensic
investigators could safely examine the body. At eight thirty pm
on Tuesday, the body was taken to the Medical Examiner's
office for an autopsy. They didn't release the identity for
two days, but it was finally known that the body
belonged to Nubia. She was badly decomposed and her body
was covered in pinesaal, gasoline, liquid, chlorine, chlorine tablets, and draino.
(23:27):
The autopsy results concluded that Nubia was beaten to death.
She died on February eleventh, twenty eleven, the same day
that DCF employ Andrea Fleary was sent to the house
to investigate a call to their abuse hotline, but instead
lied on the paperwork and said the kids were safe
without even seeing them. The police report said that Jorge
allegedly quote repeatedly punched and beat Nubia, who screamed and
(23:51):
cried until she was dead end quote. Later they spoke
to Victor and he confirmed the story. He said he
last saw Nubia on February eleventh. They were naked and
had been tied up in the bathtub for a few days.
When Jorge took Nubia to one of the bedrooms, he
then heard sounds of Orgete punching and beating her for
a long time. He said he heard her screams, but
(24:13):
then she stopped making noise and he thought she was dead.
When he asked Carmen where Nubia was, she said they
sent her to California. Once Nubia's body was found, Alessandra,
who was Carmen's granddaughter, if you remember, she was removed
from the care of her mother, Jennifer Perez and placed
with her father, Yovanni Perez. A judge essentially banned not
(24:34):
only Jennifer, but any member of her family from having
any contact with the little girl. A member of DCF
said that Alessandra should no longer be with her mother
because quote the mother, Jennifer Perez, not only psychologically abused
the child by exposing her to the torture of the twins,
but also threatened the child over and over to keep
quiet and encouraged her to be complicit in the deception,
(24:55):
including a calculated effort by the mother to keep the
child from disclosing it to DCF officials end quote. Well,
when she did disclose it, nobody fucking did anything. So that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When the story became known to the public, it pissed
off the citizens of Florida, as you can imagine, their
anger was aimed at the Department of Children and Families
and the way they handled or didn't handle the twins case.
There was a hearing and a judge named Cindy Liederman,
who was furious at Andrea Fleary's actions, spoke to her
(25:27):
about the investigation. Andrea told her that when George tried
to talk to her about the abuse, it was late
at night. Liederman responded to her with, quote, so we
don't do investigations on weekends, Is that what you're trying
to tell me? And quote Andrea had said she stopped
her investigation at nine pm because quote, we don't do
investigations on weekends. End quote. The DCF secretary David Wilkins
(25:49):
tried to defend Andrea, saying she was just nervous during
the hearing. He said, quote, we do investigations twenty four
to seven. We have employees who work weekends. We have
employees who worked now end quote. Initially miss Fleury was
given paid administrative leave, but then she was eventually fired.
When mister Wilkins was asked how they ignored all the
signs of Nubia's abuse, he claimed, quote the medical conditions
(26:11):
of the children complicated the decision making of our investigators.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Oh, so it's the children's medical conditions fault. Ultimately you're
blaming the children.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Not yeah, right for people criticizing the department, he said, quote,
these people have been deceiving the system for quite a
long time. End quote. So I guess you know, they
were just another you know, uh, oh, they were a
victim of these people, of Carmen and Jorges's deception. Okay, yeah,
oh right, they're the victim. He did create a panel
(26:42):
of professional individuals to look into how the case was handled,
and the words they use and describe their findings were
quote inept end quote, and a quote failure of common
sense and listening end quote. Yes, some very fucking basic things.
Listening and common sense. Right, yeah, I hate thee Sometimes
(27:05):
I just hate people, oh for sure. Oh yeah, I
hate people. They're just He himself criticized the DCF abuse
hotline by calling it a quote low cost call center
end quote. When he referenced one of the calls that
reported the barahonas, he said, quote, they have a low
cost call center mentality. You don't want to get off
(27:25):
the phone. In this situation, you could tell the operator
wanted to get off the phone because he's measured by
how long his call is end quote. He says. Measurements
are these, I know, Yeah, your metrics are you trying
to if you're helping? Yeah, and if you victim tackle bell,
we gotta get him in. We have thirty seconds skin me, right,
(27:48):
I know exactly, He says. He plans to make changes
and correct these situations which hopefully happened, so these atrocities
like this can possibly we stop next time. The head
of the Guardian ad LTEM program from Miami Dade County,
Sonia Fair, was questioned about why the twins were adopted
even though their guardian ADLTA, Mister Newman, had objections. Said
(28:10):
they did everything they could at the time, but the
judge that was in charge of the adoption heard other
evidence and decided to place them with the Barahonas I mean,
I don't blame him. I don't blame mister Newman.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
He tried.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Gosh Porgey was arrested on February sixteenth, twenty eleven, on
child abuse charges against Victor, and he was moved from
the Columbia Hospital to the Palm Beach County Jail. While
they had him in custody, he waved his Miranda rights
and confessed that he was so upset by the death
of his daughter at Nubia that he drove to Palm
Beach County planning to commit suicide by setting himself on fire.
(28:43):
He said he chose the spot on I ninety five
so that he would be easily found. Then he gave
Victor sleeping pills, and when Victor fell asleep with his
head in his Orgees lap, he poured gas over his
own head. When he tried to light it, he could
not do it because he didn't want to take Victor
with him. They had found a red gas tank in
his truck, but it had been filled with acid, and
(29:05):
when the police asked him why he was not as
burned as Victor, he said some of the gas must
have splashed on him. Yeah, okay, yeah. The police investigation
found that Jorge's story did not line up with Victor's injuries,
and once they found the old injuries that Victor had,
they figured out that the kids were being abused. When
they asked Jorge about it, he said the twins were
(29:26):
trying to poison everyone with rat poison, so he had
to punish them. He also said he thought that Nubia
was putting baby oil in his drinks, which was odd
because the police had taken custody of a bag that
he left at his sister's house and inside of it
was baby oil, used tape, and a pump that a
man might get at a sex shop. Oh yeah, I'm
grossed out, fucking gross, right, he claimed that he would
(29:49):
punish them by taping their hands and feet with clear
packing tape, and he would have them sit in a
corner of the dining room, or he would take them
into the bathroom and close the door to pray for
them to accept Jesus. However, when they spoke to the children,
they had vastly different stories. According to the kids, the
abuse started as soon as the twins moved in. Jorge
would beat, punch, and restrain them. He would take their
(30:11):
wrists and ankles and put them in the tub for days.
When he did not want them to fight back, he
gave them sleeping pills or allergy meds, and they were
only allowed to eat once a week.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
When they were allowed to eat, it was only milk
and bread, but the rest of the family ate regular meals.
Carmen's granddaughter asked her once why they were only allowed
milk and bread, and she said it was because it's
what they deserve. If there were any leftovers or scraps
from the regular meals, they would be given to the
dog rather than let the twins have them. According to George,
Jorgey was the worst and he hurt them the most,
(30:45):
but Carmen would also hurt Nubia. Later, when Victor was
put into his new foster home after the death of
his sister, he started to open up to his new mom.
He saw a picture of water and remembered that Jorge
would sometimes pour ice water or bleach over them and
Nubia while they were tied up in the bathtub. He
said that their homeschooling only lasted two days. Then the
(31:05):
beating started to be constant. Jorge shaved both of their
heads and would use tape or wire on them, but
the wire would cut Nubia's feet. She would then force
to put them into pine salt or chlorox. He showed
his mom how he would be tied up. Sometimes he
was hog tied or forced to crouch into a ball.
He listed some of the horrific things that were done
(31:26):
to him at the hands of Jorge Marahona, including hot
sauce being poured in his eyes, nose, and mouth. His
eyes were glut shut, he was forced to eat a cockroach,
his mouth was taped, he was beaten with a mop handle,
and jorgeb would put a plastic bag over his head
and choke him until it passed out. Multiple times. Wow
hell is not good enough.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Right, And I know I've heard, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I do have a hope that in prison, like there's
that hierarchy, like you don't fuck with kids and they
find out you've heard it child. Oh yeah, he's getting that.
It was same with her, you don't write. While in jail,
Orgey was told he had to go to a hearing
for his felony child abuse charged, so he tried to
(32:11):
hurt himself by jumping backwards off of the sink in
his cell and landing on his head. They didn't examine
determine he was competent to go before a judge, but
he refused to cooperate with the deputies, so he didn't
show up for that hearing. His mail was set for
one million dollars at the hearing, and he tried to
hurt himself again. This time. He was sent to the
hospital for a CT scan, but sent back to jail
(32:32):
and put in the mental health unit. Carmen Barahona was
questioned and initially she told the investigators that her and
Jorge had been separated for six months, but that was
a lie because they had never been apart. Now other
two adopted children were removed from the home and temporarily
given to her mother before going back to foster care.
She tried to lie and say that she didn't know
(32:53):
what was happening under her own ruff. Then she said
that Jorge was crazy and that he would threaten her
if she said anything. She did it admit to witnessing
Jorge putting the twins in the corner and tying them
up with tape a few times. In February, she filed
for our divorce from Jorge, and she was arrested in
charge with first degree murder. On March fifth. She was
held without bond, and together the couple was indicted on
(33:16):
eighteen charges, one count of first degree murder, eight counts
of child abuse resulting in great bodily harm, one count
of child neglect resulting in great bodily harm, six counts
of child neglect to no great harm, one count of
child neglect no great bodily harm, and one count of
mutilating a dead body. They both faced the death penalty
if convicted, and they both pleaded not guilty. On February
(33:39):
twenty first, twenty twenty, Carmen Barahona changed her plea to
guilty for first degree murder and multiple counts of aggravated
child abuse. She also got a plea deal to testify
against Horge. She received life in prison, but if she
goes back on her word, she could still face the
death penalty. As of July twenty fourth, Jorge Barahonists still
(34:00):
has not gone to trial for his heinous crimes against
his children. And that's why they're saying, you know, Carmen,
if she goes back on her word for testifying. She
took this plea four years ago, right almost five, So
he still hasn't gone to trial. He has managed to
postpone his trial longer than poor Nubia was alive. His
trial was originally supposed to begin on September twenty eighth,
(34:23):
twenty fifteen, but his attorneys requested more time. On February
twenty six, twenty twenty, Orges lawyers requested to have his trial.
They delayed again because they found out about Carmen's deal
and because of the COVID pandemic at the time. The
reason for Jorgees incarceration. He was attacked, like you said,
five other inmates in the Miami Dade County jail while
(34:45):
he was sleeping on March first, twenty twenty one. According
to a police report, the inmates had messed with the
surveillance cameras, so the attack was not recorded. After the attack,
he had bruises on his face, a cut in his nose,
and a nosebleed. His injuries were nothing compared to what
he put those twins through. Right, I'm like, oh gosh,
in my opinion, where they went easy. I mean absolutely
(35:07):
Da got beaten to death. Not that I'm condoning it, no,
gosh no, But I'm not against it. I mean not
against the street justice at all. For a five against
one fight, the damage could have been much worse. The
five men were charged with battery by a detainee and
their ages were between twenty and twenty nine. As another
(35:28):
way to postpone his trial, Jorge fired his legal team
in August of twenty twenty one, so the judge had
to appoint a new one. Then to add insult to injury.
On March first, twenty twenty four, Judge Andreel Wolfson had
decided that Jorge Barahona is not competent to stand trial
based on an evaluation done by three psychologists. Two out
(35:49):
of the three said he was incompetent enough to be
admitted to a mental health institution. So he was admitted
to a facility for treatment, and if his condition improves
and he is able to stand trial, he will be
turned to Miami Dade County Corrections and his trial were resumed.
A state attorney named Catherine Fernandez Rundel said, quote, I
regret that the horrific case against Jorge Barrahona is yet
(36:10):
again delayed. The psychologist's opinions that he cannot assist his
new attorney in mounting his own legal defense is frustrating
to all. Hopefully he will be found to be competent
to stand trial soon and this case will finally move forward,
providing justice for Nubia and her twin brother Victor.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
End quote.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
No amount of money will bring Nubia back or take
the horrors Victor lived through away. But in April of
twenty seventeen, he was awarded three point seventy five million
dollars in a settlement with the Florida Department of Children
and Families since they quote poorly handled the case of
the Barrahona twins end quote, and the department quote had
many red flags they did not pay attention to end quote,
(36:51):
so we can hope that his future will at least
be brighter. Nubia's final resting place is at Hillcrest Memorial
Park in West Palm Beach, Florida, and hopefully when she
will receive the justice she deserves.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
He definitely deserves. Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Can't even believe twenty eleven. What fucking we're fourteen years
in our justice system? This is what we're settling for?
Is this what we're settling for? I don't like our
justice system. I don't know why it was postponed to
begin with for so long. I understand how did we
get to the point where we're ten years later in
twenty twenty one. He's firing like, why didn't the trial
(37:28):
take place? And I know they were delays because of
COVID blah blah blah, But yeah, you said he was
arrested in twenty eleven. Don't give me a fucking We
got a full dock at bullshit for fourteen fucking years.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And now he's not competent to stand trial? Fuck right off.
It irritates me to no end when I hear like this, because,
like you said, this is our justice system.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Now, this is unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I don't even fucking care, you know, I get to
the point where I could just like fucking you know,
drive down to Fuckings Staid and like fucking crack some
skulls or something.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right, Oh exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I want to see what happened to Andrea Fleary. I
want to know. I want to know what happened to
everybody who filled this child.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yes, these children who has a hand in it, has.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
There's you know what's that they're complicit in it. Russell Crowe,
he started in It reminds me of the movie. It's
called The Pope's Exorcist, and it's so good. But I
do remember, like in the beginning, Leah Ill'll they'll have
like a saying on there that you just kind of read,
and I remember something. The end sentence was, your sins
(38:38):
will find you. I think, you know, to me, it's
just another way of saying karma, right, Karma is a bitch.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
But you know, when you're raised Catholic and the Lord
is used against you in many ways, when someone says
your sins will find you, we know that's true.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah right, oh yeah, he like I said, Hell's too
good for Jorge? How could you do this? To a child?
How could you treat children like? And Carmen like, is
she just afraid of poorgey? Like, oh, she's fucking complicit.
How do you I don't even say. It's not even
natural as a mom for me to not want to
protect young girls, young boys. You're sending your six year
(39:16):
old over to grandma's house and your fucking six year
old is seeing all this shit, and she comes, she
tells you, and be like, oh, she don't tell anybody?
Are you fucking kidding me? You're in the six year
old is the lonely one with a fucking moral compass?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Right? I know that this is wrong.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
To know that this is wrong and to fucking say
something I don't know, it just fucking pisses me off.
This poor child, these poor kids. We have done fucking
child abuse stories and I I just don't know. I can't.
There's fucking monsters out there, I swear, the most innocent
among us, and.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's who you target with such darkness.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, mom wearing bleach, making her soak her feet in
fucking cuts? Yes, Like, what the fuck on shore? You?
I know? I just oh my god, so.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Well, thank you?
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I mean, you're right, We're absolutely standing for a Nubia's
justice and Victor is saying, Victor's just all the kids,
all the kids. So so thank you for bringing this
so we can welcome. We're on our mind and hope
for the best. Yeah, what we can do, but you know,
he becomes competent to stand trial and takes his ass
out of the mental facility and goes to fucking prison
(40:32):
and get in his ass. And so anyway, thank you
Shannon for listening, and thank you for anyone that hung
in there and listened to us this week. Don't forget
to hit the subscribe button or follow button if you'd
like to hear more episodes from Shannon and I or
from Talia and I from way back when. You can
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(40:55):
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can join there and you'll get one episode a week
if you join our first degree and you get one
new episode a week that we don't release to the public.
So anyway, go to our website Crimes Andconsequences dot com.
You can listen there, or you can find out more
information about joining Patreon. Or joining Apple. And I think
(41:17):
that's all the business for today. So thank you Shannis.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Oh well, thank you Tanya. I love it.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And until our next episode, I love you and i'll
see you later. I love you, love you, Bye.
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