May 2, 2025 • 39 mins
In EP267, we examine the deeply unsettling case of Cary Stayner, the Yosemite Killer. On the surface, Cary seemed quiet--reserved, even overlooked. But behind that silence was a storm of inner torment, obsession, and darkness. What makes his story even more chilling is the irony: Cary Stayner, was the brother of Steven Stayner (who we discussed in EP266), a national hero who survived a childhood abduction. While the world watched one brother's trauma unfold in the headlines, the other battled invisible demons--ones that would eventually erupt in brutal violence. This is not just the story of a killer- it's the story of unresolved trauma, twisted fantasies, and the shadow legacy of a family marked by tragedy.
SOURCES:
1) Sund details frantic hunt for wife, daughter: Father-husband testifies during Stayner’s preliminary hearing into slayings of 3 Yosemite visitors
2) CBS News: The Yosemite Murders -- in photos
3)Crime Library: Cary Stayner and the Yosemite Murders
4) CBS Sacramento: 25 years later: FBI agent shares how he got Cary Stayner to confess to Yosemite killings
5) SF Gate: Overshadowed All His Life / Low-key Cary Stayner took back seat to kidnapped brother
6) 20/20 Episode: Evil in Eden
SOURCES:
1) Sund details frantic hunt for wife, daughter: Father-husband testifies during Stayner’s preliminary hearing into slayings of 3 Yosemite visitors
2) CBS News: The Yosemite Murders -- in photos
3)Crime Library: Cary Stayner and the Yosemite Murders
4) CBS Sacramento: 25 years later: FBI agent shares how he got Cary Stayner to confess to Yosemite killings
5) SF Gate: Overshadowed All His Life / Low-key Cary Stayner took back seat to kidnapped brother
6) 20/20 Episode: Evil in Eden
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this
(00:37):
is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore
true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you?
I'm doing great? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I am doing fucking fabulous because it's Saturday, Saturday, the weekend,
and here we are recording on a weekend. We love
you guys so much. Yes, of course, gosh, I have
to tell you. I'm gonna put it on there. Maybe
I'll just have a little post on the Patreon. I
(01:09):
have the best incense, Like I'm an incense girl. I
like to have my house smelling like a holy Indian
temple at all times, you know, between pachuli and sage
and frankincense. I found this box of the stick and
it's the good sticks. It's not the bad sticks brand.
I think Satya and they have nineteen sixties pechuli. That's
(01:34):
what it's called. Nineteen or sixties pachuli. Tanya. I can't
help but I feel like my ankles get wings and
I'm just like happily like, oh, my gosh, I can
hear Mama's in the papas. I'm like, oh, my previous
life is just coming through. So that's what I got
(01:55):
going on. What about you? Nice?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Nice? I have done jack shit today. I'm happy about
that preach. I like, I think that my daughter and
I are gonna go get some ramen for dinner. My
husband is working tonight, so I think we're gonna go
get some ramen for dinner. So that's what I have
in store. So nice. Last week I told the story
(02:20):
of Stephen Stainer, Yes, and I alluded that that was
like part one. It was part one of a two
part series about the Stainer brothers, because Stephen not only
had a crazy story, but his brother Carrie also had
a crazy story. And Carrie is a little bit younger
than Stephen, but they both went in very different directions.
(02:43):
So before I get started, I would just like to
remind everyone to hit the subscriber follow button on whatever
AF you're listening to. And my story begins. In February
of nineteen ninety nine, forty two year old Carol's son
and her fifteen year old daughter, Julie Taken, family friend
and sixteen year old Sylvina Palazzo to a vacation at
(03:05):
Yosemite National Park. Sylvina had come from Argentina as a
foreign exchange student. Carol had participated in a student exchange
program when she was young, and she met Sylvina's mother
during her time there. She rented a red Pontiert Grand
Prix for three to four hour drive to Yosemite National Park,
wanting to share the beautiful scenery and activities with the teenagers.
(03:28):
They were going to stay the night and make the
drive back the next day, where they planned to meet
Carol's husband Gens. Well it's actually YenS, but it's spelled Gens.
You know, Jay sounds like a why. They were going
to meet him at the San Francisco airport to return
the rental car, but they never showed up. YenS made
frantic calls to the airport, the hotel, and their neighbors.
(03:52):
No one had seed them or had any information on
where they could be. Eventually he called the sheriff and
the police. He thought they possibly had gotten maybe into
a car wreck while driving back. It was February and
there was still a good amount of snow and ice
lingering in Yosemite Park. He said, the thought of violence
or other criminal activities hadn't really crossed his mind at
(04:14):
that point. Days turned into weeks with no new leads.
The Palazzos family came from Argentina to join the search
for their daughter. It was the largest search that had
taken place in Yosemite history. Carol, Julie and Sylvina planned
to stay near Yosemite at a rustic lodge in a
prime location just seven miles outside the main entrance gate
(04:37):
of the park called Cedar Lodge. The lodge was made
of several buildings, an outdoor pool and hot tub, and
detached restaurant. When law enforcement arrived at Cedar Lodge to
conduct interviews, you know, gathering information, they toured around the
grounds and had all the rooms opened up for them
to search by the properties maintenance man. Flyers with the
(04:59):
women's pictures and a photo of the car were in
the news and hung up in the surrounding areas. On
March eighteenth, nineteen ninety nine, so this is maybe like
five weeks, a man named James Power stumbled upon a car,
a Pontiac Grand Prix, while on a hike in Yosemite,
about one hundred miles from the Cedar lodge in a
(05:20):
secluded area about one hundred yards north of Highway one
oh eight. The vehicle had been set on fire and
had been burnt so thoroughly that there was no paint, rubber, plastic,
or upholstery left. The hiker called, yeah, I know, it's
quite a thorough.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Job and right in the middle of nowhere in Yosemite.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right right. Hiker called the California Highway Patrol to report
the location. When they arrived the following day, investigators opened
the trunk and found the remains of two bodies burnt
beyond identification. Evidence surround the car was collected. They had
found the keys to the car, shoes, a personal CD player,
(05:58):
and a camera. Within the pictures that had been taken
with the camera, there were shots of Carol, Julie, and Sylvina.
Photos of the ladies hiking through Yosemite ice, skating, and
in their room at the lodge doing handstands and relaxing
like those were all on the camera. When the bodies
that were found in the trunk were eventually identified, they
(06:20):
were found to be Carol's sunnd and Sylvina Palasso. Reports
of the discovery of two of the three women being
found spread across the country with one big question remaining,
where was Julie. With so many unanswered questions and a
killer on the loose, everyone was afraid. Tourism at Yosemite dropped,
(06:41):
with even locals no longer visiting the park, resort, and restaurant.
While spring had always been a time when Yosemite began
blooming with greenery and new life, the spring of nineteen
ninety nine was different. Searchers were combing through the countryside roads,
ditches and the rivers round where the vehicle had been found,
(07:02):
with no sign of Julie. It was in late March
when the authorities finally received another clue. This one was
in the form of a taunting letter. When it was opened,
it showed a note that said, quote we had fun
with this one end quote, with a crudely drawn map underneath.
The map showed Highway one twenty, the Don Pedro Reservoir,
(07:23):
and a place called Vista Point with an X marked
close by. Searchers began feeling hope that with this clue
they might find Julie alive. The investigation moved to the
area shown on the map and a cadaver dog was
brought in. It was about forty miles from where the
car was found. The dog only needed ten seconds to
find Julie's body. Oh my gosh, she had been raped
(07:46):
and her throat was slit. Over the course of several weeks,
a task force made of FBI agents and other law
enforcement officers was created to begin rounding up suspects consisting
of sex offenders, drug users, and next convicts with a
history of violent offenses, focusing on people that would have
been familiar with the area. It was stated in Newsweek quote,
(08:09):
the FBI believes that the killer knows the area of
abandoned gold mines well enough to hide the car off
a spur road where locals dump old refrigerators, cars, and
washing machines, and well enough to know that the smell
of a burning car would likely not attract attention because
the air often reeks from people burning their garbage end quote.
(08:31):
It was mid April when the FBI announced the key
players in the Sightseer slings had been arrested and were
in jail on unrelated charges. Forty two year old Michael
mick Larwick had been a longtime matthewser who grew up
near the area where the bodies of Carol and Sylvina
had been found arrested on March sixteenth after he'd allegedly
(08:54):
shot a Modesto police officer, which led to a fourteen
hour standoff. His long criminal rine didn't vode well for
him during his lengthy FBI interview. Larwick's half brother, thirty
two year old Eugene Rufus Dykes, had also been taken
into custody due to an unrelated parole violation connected to
(09:14):
one of his previous charges. Those previous charges included sex
and weapons convictions. He was presumed to also have been
involved in the women's disappearances. Other ex convicts the FBI
presumed to be key players included Billy Joe Strange, a
thirty nine year old parole working at the Cedar Lodge
(09:35):
restaurant who'd been arrested when his parole officer went to
visit him and allegedly smelled alcohol on his breath. Many
people actually rushed to his defense, calling the FBI's suspicion
a travesty. So just to put that in there.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They're so desperate to to try to find somebody to
pin it on, Yet to.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Pin it on. Also taken into custody was Darryl Grace
Stephens at fifty five years old. Stranger's roommate mister Stevens
had been convicted in nineteen seventy eight for rape and robbery.
He was jailed on March fourteenth for failing to register
as a sex offender. By the summer of nineteen ninety nine,
(10:17):
after the announcement of the arrests, tourists began returning to
the park and things were beginning to go back to normal.
Five months had passed with no other murders. People were
feeling safe, believing that the predators were in custody. About
nineteen miles from the Cedar Lodge on the western side
of the park is an area called Foresta. Looking from
(10:38):
some of the mountainous ridges above, you will see a
place the locals called Big Meadow, where an old house
referred to as the Grand Cabin sits. At the time,
the cabin was owned by the Park Service and leased
for a dollar a year to the Yosemite Institute, which
runs educational programs throughout the park. During the summer of
nineteen ninety nine, the cabin was occupied by twenty five
(11:00):
six year old Joey Armstrong, employed as a naturalist at
the park, Joey was responsible for educating children about the
nature in Yosemite. Described as sensitive, loving, kind, and smart,
she claimed to have not been afraid while she was
employed there, while law enforcement was hunting for the killer
that spring. Her diary celebrated the day the FBI announced
(11:22):
that they had detained the suspects, stating quote the monsters
are gone end quote. On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine,
Joey was picking up her Toyota Tacoma for a trip
with friends. She never arrived at their meeting spot. Her
friends knew Joey well, so they knew something had to
be wrong. When her friends called Yosemite, the search for
(11:44):
the young woman started immediately. Beginning in the cabin, investigators
found debris on the floor of the bedroom, including broken
sunglasses and a red mechanics hat. It wasn't until the
next day, when the search of the grounds around the
cabin began, that someone spotted what they thought was an
inanimate object bobbing in the water. When they walked over
(12:04):
for a closer look, they found Joey's decapitated body.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh my gosh, I know.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Initially, investigators did not believe the two incidents were related.
When Carol, Julie and Sylvina were killed, everything was cleanly done.
There was no evidence to speak of. The scene of
Joey's murder included a mountain of evidence. The events didn't compare,
and the authorities didn't want to cause panic without knowing
all the facts. Eyewitnesses had spotted a blue and white
(12:35):
International Scout off road suv on the same road Joey
lived on around the time she was murdered. Following the trail,
investigators began searching for the owner to interview as a
possible witness. The man they were looking for was the
helpful maintenance man that had toured law enforcement around the
Cedar Ridge when Carol, Julie and Sylvina had gone missing,
(12:58):
a man by the name of Carrie Stainer, the star
of our show Yes. Unfortunately, the FBI arrived at the
restaurant of the Cedar Lodge announcing they were looking for
the handyman, but he wasn't found a beyond the lookout.
A BOLO alert was put out on the news for him,
and they received a call from a woman named Janet DeMont.
(13:21):
She informed them that she'd seen and had a conversation
with the man they were looking for. When asked where,
she told them he was at a resort called Laguna
dal Soul. Laguna Del Soul is around a two hour
drive north of Yosemite, just like any other resort with
camping cabins, shuffle board, volleyball, a restaurant and bar. What
(13:42):
sets this resort apart is the fact that it's also
a nudist colony.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Oh, hiding among the nids.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, the nids. When the FBI arrived to question the witness,
the manager welcomed them inside, saying, quote, you'll be able
to recognize him because he's the only one in clothes.
I guess clothing was optional.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, you don't blend, Carrie. You're gonna want to blend.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You need to take clothes off, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Real.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
As the agents approached him, Carrie stood up and put
his hands in the air. He didn't ask any questions
about why they were looking for him or what the
questions were related to. The agents told him he was
wanted for an interview and convinced the man to ride
with one of them back to the FBI field office
in Sacramento, two hours away. The other agent drove behind
(14:31):
in a separate vehicle. During the drive, sitting in the
front seat next to agent Jeffrey Reinick, Carrie was soft
spoken and cooperative, described in much the same way as
he was when he was interviewed for information in the
case from that spring. He was helpful. The drive was
long enough that the two men began to talk. Rhyinick
said about the time he spent with Stainer driving. He
(14:54):
said this, during that time we got to know each other.
We were two guys that didn't know each other, that
were stuck doing something that we really didn't want to
be doing, and so we were making the best of it.
We were just talking about us. The agent, recognizing Carrie's
last name, asked him if he was related to Stephen Stainer,
the childhood gone missing at seven years old. You know
(15:16):
the story that I told you last week.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As Carrie opened up about how upsetting it was that
the man Parnell who had kidnapped Stephen, it was upsetting
that he had gotten off so easily, Carrie became emotionally flustered,
and he questioned the lenient sentence recounted by Nick. He said,
he went to prison for seven years, and yet they
(15:39):
held Stephen for seven years and he felt that was
really not right, and I agreed with him. I had
no problem. I agree with you, Yes, recalled right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Carrie was the oldest of delberton Ky's five children, and
he was born on August thirteenth, nineteen sixty one, making
him a leo. Such a leo that right smack dab
in the middle of this middle. Friends said he was nice, quiet, creative,
and extremely smart. It was said he looked after his siblings.
(16:13):
At three years old, Carrie was diagnosed with trichotillomania, a
condition which causes him to compulsively pull out his hair.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Although he was put on medication for the condition, it
continued to affect him through high school, leading to bald spots,
forcing him to always wear a hat, and caused him
to be subject to severe bullying because kids are dicks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
They are kids are dicks, and God forbid you have
something like this, right, No, right, I mean you can't
even have a freckle or a mole let alone a
condition that you know, Yeah, you're doing your best to
deal with. Sometimes I pull my hair out.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oka he causes noticeable catches. Yes, exactly, It's hard. Despite
the teachers. I noticed that Carrie was exhibiting higher than
average intelligence. He was moved to accelerated classes in junior
high Also known as a talented cartoonist, being showcased in
the school newspaper, he was ultimately voted most creative in
(17:14):
his senior class. After Stephen's disappearance, the entire family dynamic shifted.
His father became an emotional rock and his mother became
extremely distant, raising her children almost an autopilot. Both parents
became colder to the children that they were still raising.
Carrie felt abandoned and neglected through it all. Carrie said
(17:36):
that he would go out for walks at night and
look at the stars, wishing on one of them for
Stephen to come home, and then Stephen came back. When
his brother returned, Stephen was practically a stranger, being forced
to share a room. The teens didn't get along. Carrie
felt he'd been put on the shelf when Stephen disappeared,
but it was even more pronounced when Stephen returned, confirming
(17:58):
his place in the background of his family, making him
even more frustrated by the publicity surrounding his brother. After
graduating high school in nineteen seventy nine, Carrie was lost.
When he was overwhelmed or needed space, he would drive
out on Highway one oh four into Yosemite in his
pale blue and white nineteen seventy two International Scout and
(18:19):
disappeared into the woods and smoked weed.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, Carrie had emotional difficulties, some that people knew about,
and some he kept to himself. Beginning as young as
seven years old, Carrie said he had begun fantasizing about
abducting and murdering women. He was also found to have
exposed himself to a friend of one of his sisters
as a teenager, while the girl was staying over at
(18:45):
their house. Carrie had crept under the cot she was
sleeping in and reached up to touch her breasts. When
she told him to go away, he left the room,
only to reappear later fully nude, prompting her to tell
him to leave a second time. When other boys age
started dating, Carrie did not. He was believed to be
the cliche, quiet, artistic type. Girls want to go out
(19:07):
with the tall, dark, athletic boy who had brooding hazel eyes,
but Carrie would never oblige. In nineteen eighty nine, Stephen
passed away and shortly after, in nineteen ninety, Carrie's uncle
that he'd been living with was shot and killed in
the home they shared together. And the family has.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Some gosh, that is so much for one family.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
One family, that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's just yeah, it's to take it all in. I
don't even know, like I put it myself in their
mom's place, you know, like with Stephen gone. And then
how last week we were talking about, you know, like
the reacclamation into the family after being gone so long,
he came back right before school started and bad a boom,
(19:51):
bat a bang right back in school, right, you know.
So that's just a lot of people going through a
lot of things at the same time.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Wow, that is Carrie's emotions began to boil. In the
early nineties. Carrie was working as a window installer at
a glass company after graduating high school. He developed a
fantasy that he was going to ram a truck into
the shop, killing everyone there, and then setting the place
on fire. He had some crazy, intrusive thoughts.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
That is crazy, the only kind of violent. I remember
when I was married and I didn't want to be
married anymore, and I remember being like at this right
turn on the street, and I thought, man, if they
someone could just hit the driver's side because he was driving,
you know, this would just work out. I would be,
you know, safe from the impact. And she hadn't no
(20:45):
longer married. So Steve would like, well, I can kind
of relate to violent thoughts like that. But that was
many many moons ago, yes, long time ago. But how
do you just have these thoughts of just like I'm seven,
what'd you say? He was thinking about killing and raping
women already already? I know, what do you watch? I
(21:05):
don't eat. But it's hard what he was going through
at that time. Who knows?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, who knows. Opening about his potential violent breakdown to
his friends, they noticed his cry for help and took
him to a mental health care center and got him checked,
but soon after, Carrie checked himself out, preferring to take
refuge in Yosemite. Soon after, Carrie went into work to
pick up his paycheck and never return there for a shift,
(21:32):
telling the owner he was thinking about moving. Struggling for
decades to control his impulses, he ended up taking a
job at the Cedar Lodge in nineteen ninety seven as
a maintenance man. Yosemite had always provided him with serenity
going up there to smoke pot and sun bathed naked.
He was a highly regarded employee, to the extent that
(21:53):
the owner would send his own kids out to help
Carrie with the hotel maintenance and learn from him. With
all the compliments that he got. Not all the people
he came across had the wold pulled over their eyes. However,
Tricia Howtis and her husband ran the restaurant at the lodge.
Their daughter enjoyed swimming in the pool during the summer months,
(22:14):
and she described how Carrie would stand and stare at
their daughter while she was swimming, to the point that
it would freak the girl out. She described him as
cold and hateful. Tricia once even confronted Carrie saying, quote,
if you go toward my daughter ever, I will destroy you.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
That's mama, bear right there.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, don't you like your kid?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Exact right.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
None of this was known to the FBI agents at
the point they went to collect Carrie at the Nudest Colony.
He wasn't suspected of murder. The emotional connection the agent
built with the man was genuine, and they built a bond.
While talking about his brother, but Carrie was still manipulative.
On the drive, Agent Ryanik kept looking over at Carrie
(22:58):
and would say occasionally, quote, you look just like Billy
Jack end quote, asking him if he ever saw the
nineteen seventy one movie, Carrie would repeatedly deny having seen it.
They also connected over a song in it called One
Tin Soldier. Eventually, Carrie, Jeff, and the agent that had
been following behind reached the Sacramento office for an interview,
(23:18):
and before they walked in the door, Carrie stopped and
said this line from the movie quote, I'm gonna take
this right foot and I'm gonna whoop you that side
of your face. There's not a damn thing you can
do about it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Both men laughed as they walked in. But the fact
that for the whole two hour car ride Carrie had
denied seeing the movie and then could stand there and
quote that line is a small window into the manipulation. Yes, like,
why are you lying about it? It's just fucking weird,
it is, But.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's a good peek into someone who's fucking with you,
you know. It's just like, oh, I see, and it
does kind of remind me of the quote did you
ever watch kingo QUI means oh yeah. Remember Carrie wanted
to get something inscribed that romantic that Doug had said
to her, and it was the Eric Estrata movie with
(24:09):
this monkey that he ends up saying, you didn't just
save my life brown eyes. It's what Eric Strata said
to the monkey. Doug said to Carrie, you made my
life saving or something like that. Fucky love that show.
But but the quoting and mm hmmm, it is a
(24:30):
good window into the because I bet you he sent
something like, come on, man, I know you saw it.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You have to have seen it, you know, right, yeah,
especially since he looks like the person is yes, it
can't be the check it out just for that, right right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I can't believe I'm the first one telling you you
look like this.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Right in the field office, the agents and Carrie were
sitting in a room together eating pizza in the episode
of twenty twenty titled Evil and Eden. Because this is
like an episode that made out of the story. The
agent side quote as a general rule, when law enforcement
are interrogating a suspect, they don't order a pizza end quote.
(25:10):
But this was an interview, non interrogation either of the
agents knew who they were bringing in. Carrie did, however,
and while the agents were trying to decide where to
start their interview, Carrie opened up and said, this is
going to be my last meal as a free man.
I can give you closure. The agents asked what closure,
and he said, quote, I can answer questions for you
(25:32):
about Joey and more dangling a confession. Carrie began his
negotiation with three requests. First, a reward had been offered
for information leading to the capture of the killer of
Joey Armstrong. Carrie wanted his family to receive the reward money. Second,
he wanted to end up in federal prison near his family.
(25:54):
And lastly, he wanted child pornography pictures of young girls.
Just a couple of images, but a stack, is what
he said.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's he wanted a stack of child porn for the reward, to.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Go to his family, yes, and to end up in
federal prison. So Agent Ryanick says to him, well, you
have to pick one. Which one of those three things
do you want? And he chose the child porn.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
To get the discussion moving, the agents didn't say no
and quote, you never say no. To them. You basically
put them off, saying we're going to get to that.
I know you want it. I'd like you to have it,
but you move it down the ladder end quote to
buy some time after that. Carrie Stainer's confession began on
July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine. Carrie had left the
(26:43):
Cedar Lodge in his blue and white International Scout and
taken a back road known mostly to the workers, into foresta.
This was something he regularly did. He genuinely enjoyed getting
out into nature to relieve his stress. He got out
of his truck and was walking, looking around and throwing
rocks in the water. He wasn't hunting for anyone. An
opportunity simply presented itself. He happened to look and notice
(27:06):
a petite blonde girl moving in and out of the
grand cabin. It looked like she was probably alone. Joey,
excited about the trip she had planned with her friends,
was going in and out of the house, pecking up
her truck and getting ready to leave. As Carrie watched,
he decided to get a little closer to get a
better look. He went back to his truck to pull
a green backpack out of the back seat. This was
(27:27):
Carrie's murder kit. Inside held a twenty two revolver, a
large knife, and a roll of duct tape. Approaching her,
he began to make conversation, looking behind her and into
the cabin. He wanted to make sure no one else
was there. Quote. She stepped up on the porch and
she was talking to me, and that's when I pulled
(27:49):
out the gun and put it to her head. She
turned around and freaked out, and I told her go inside.
End quote. He used the gun to direct her into
the house and into the bedroom, where he began binding
her with the duct tape and stuffing a gag in
her mouth. The large athletic man had a difficult time
subduing the petite woman. She fought back with everything in
her and he barely was able to win the struggle,
(28:11):
but in the end he was able to constrain her
arms with the tape. Using the gun again, he guided
her to his car, picking her up and tossing her
into the back seat before he drove away. While he
was driving, she continued to fight back, Carrie said, quote.
She started going crazy, just jumping all over the place
in the back of the truck. I really couldn't control
(28:31):
her end quote. She flung herself out through the window
onto the road in front of a barn. I slammed
the truck into park, and I jumped out, and she
got up off the ground and started running. Carrie didn't
expect this much of a fight. His fantasies never included
any resistance. He gave chase, eventually catching up to her,
after which he took the knife out of his back
(28:52):
pocket and slit her throat. At the end of this confession,
and without giving the kiddy porn to the now confessed killer,
the investigation gators still weren't sure what the quote and
more end quote portion of Carrie's confession entailed, or if
they would ever find out. Attempting to coax it out
of him, Jeff told the man, quote, you look better.
You need to get the rest off your chest.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
There was a long dramatic pause before Carrie said, Okay,
let's do it. In February nineteen ninety nine, Carrie had
been working at the Cedar Lodge for two years. It
was not the busy season, so he'd been laid off
until tourism picked up in the spring. The area was
deserted in the winter. February fifteenth was Monday, so many
of the guests had left after Valentine's weekend. Carol, Julie
(29:38):
and Sylvina's room, number five oh nine was far from
the lobby, in a secluded, dark corner of the lot.
The ladies had gone out to eat and went to
the front desk to rent Jerry McGuire to watch in
their room. It was determined that the final picture taken
on the camera found in the woods of Carol and
Sylvina sitting on the beds in the hotel room was
(29:58):
taken about twenty minutes before Carrie knocked on the door.
Carrie had been planning for years. He repeatedly played out
scenarios in his mind. When he was walking to his
room that night above the restaurant, he noticed there was
a red car in the parking lot of the five
hundred building, all by itself. The curtains to the windows
were open, and when he walked by he could see
(30:19):
women inside, three women. Noting there were no men around,
he knocked on the door and when Carol answered, he
told her that there was a leak in a room
upstairs and he needed to access their bathroom to make
the repair. Carol answered absolutely not right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
The girls were in their pajamas and they were settling
in for the night. When Carrie told her that if
she didn't let him in, they would have to move
to another room because the leak couldn't continue. She relented.
Carrie said, quote, they let me in. I went to
the bathroom and checked the fans where I told them
the leak probably would be. When I came out of
the bathroom, I pulled my gun out and I told
them I wanted the money and keys to the car,
(31:00):
directed Julie and Sylvina into the bathroom and used the
duct tape to bind Carol before he strangled her with
a rope so he kills.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
The adult first.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
When he was done, he wrapped her up and put
her in the trunk of the red Pontiac rental car.
Then he went back to the hotel room and released
the teenagers from the bathroom, sexually assaulting them. Sylvina resisted.
After she attempted to fight back, Carrie took her back
into the bathroom and strangled her. He said, quote. The
Paloso girl couldn't speak very good English and was crying
(31:31):
a lot and Julie was very calm, She was very cooperative.
She did everything I told her to, no tears, know nothing, unquote.
Knowing seeing the body of her young friend lifeless would
panic Julie. Carrie moved her into the neighboring room, Room
five ten while he wrapped Sylvina's body and put her
in the trunk with Carol. Then he went back to
(31:52):
collect Julie, telling her to get in the car. It
was getting pretty late, probably five o'clock or so in
the morning. I told Julie we had to get someplace
to go and I wouldn't harm her, so I put
her in the car. Her hands were duct taped in
front of her. I wrapped a pink blanket around her,
and I just drove. I didn't know where I was going.
I didn't know what I was going to do. I
(32:12):
took Julie out of the car. I carried her down
the pathway an agent Ryan had clarified that he was
carrying her like a groom carries a bride, and I
laid out the blanket. I guess I knew what I
was going to do because I had the knife with me,
and I slid her throat, saying after he killed her.
He stood on the mountain marveling at the beautiful view
of the rising sun.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
What a fucking asshole, I know. I also find it's
very monstrous. I guess too as a serial killer to
give a victim review. Oh she went ham, she was
going crazy. She did everything I told her to do. Oh,
she wasn't good in her English. Shut the fuck up.
(32:53):
Nobody wants your opinion. Nobody wants you here.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You don't need Yeah, I don't need your commentary.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Thank you, dick.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
The next time Carrie was seen, he was one hundred
miles from the Cedar Lodge in a town called Sierra Village,
when he used a payphone to call a cab. His
explanation to the driver was that he had come from
Yosemite with some other people and they left him stranded
there with no way back. The red Pontiac would eventually
be found just a short walk from where the driver
picked him up. After that confession, quite nonchalantly, Carrie added, quote,
(33:25):
I'd been gone most of the day off the property.
I was at my girlfriend's house, and I guess this
girlfriend and her two daughters were my original intended victims.
End quote. Okay, Carrie's girlfriend was a waitress in the
restaurant at the Cedar Lodge in nineteen ninety eight. Her
two daughters were in their preteens. They loved him and
(33:45):
felt safe around him, describing him as handsome and warm.
They said they felt he was like a big teddy bear.
The day after Valentine's Day was the day he planned
to kill his girlfriend and rape and kill her daughters.
But while he was at her house there was another
person there too, so he had to abandon his plan.
But he said he was really amped up, quote unquote.
(34:10):
He got back to the resort late and thought that
he could calm down if he soaked in hot tub.
He went down to the hot tub and it was dirty,
and he was frustrated and annoyed. So he was taking
a walk around the property when he saw Carol and
the girls in the number five hundred building. The authorities
arrested thirty seven year old Carrie Stainer in July nineteen
ninety nine. Stainer accompanied law enforcement into Yosemite to help
(34:32):
them find the murder weapon he used on Julie, as
well as the duct tape. They also found his watch.
He was sentenced to life in prison without parole for
Joey Armstrong's murder after pleading guilty to premeditated first degree murder, felony,
first degree murder, kidnapping resulting in death, and attempted aggravated
sexual assault. He pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity
(34:56):
to the murders of Carol, Julie and Sylvena, but he
was victed a first degree murder with special circumstances in
one count of kidnapping. It was sentenced to death on
August twenty seventh, two thousand and two. He is in
San Quentin Prison right now.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Awaiting his execution.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Waiting his execution, but California has put a stay on
all executions, so he'll never be executed. Probably. But he
also did not get his kitty porn. Well, Yes, Sage
asking the FBI agents for kitty porn with a straight face. Yeah,
I can't even believe these guys, these men and women,
the officers.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
They must hear some crazy shit shit that you know,
would you really need to contain ourselves? Good cop, bad Cop.
I just got done watching the other guys. And when
Will Ferrell gets confused about the bad cop, good cop,
so it's bad he does bad cop, bad cop. That's
would be me. I'd be like, I'm always bad cop.
Let me be bad cop.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I know. I'm like, Okay, I want three things. I
want family to have the money I want I forget
what the second one was, and I want kitty porn. Okay,
well you can only pick one. Okay, then I want
the porn you're asking the FBI, Like, okay, I just
do you.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Know your audience? Yeah, you know who you're asking your venue.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
For, like a Playboy magazine or something.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
No, yeah, something just fucking piggish and illegal.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Like the FBI is gonna hand over some illegal shit
to you, our fucking evidence lacker for all the fucking
kitty porn that we've rounded up over the years, and
let me just sport through and pick up some good
ship for you.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Like really, what, sure, Carrie? Sure?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Hold on?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, that get fucked. It's Winton. Well that is crazy
about both brothers. Two tragedies in one family. Oh and
then the one the uncle, Yes, who even knows. We
just know about three and they are very horrific, you know, terrible,
Like I'm glad you found this story. I had no
(36:59):
idea that lightning could strike twice, you know in a way,
like I.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
What you always think, right, Like, this is what I
think about plane crashes. Okay, I always think, Okay, if
there was one recent, I'm gonna get on the plane
and I'll be fine. Because there was one that was recent.
Ye it's been a few years or whatever. I'm like, ooh,
it could happen to me. I know it's a stupid thought,
but those are my thoughts. But I just am like,
how can one family have such a horrific story more
(37:31):
than once? Yes, completely different, right, but newsworthy and horrific
and mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, so many victims, including that whole family, you know,
just amazing. But yeah, thanks for bringing it, Ninja.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
You're welcome. You're welcome. So thank you everyone for listening
to this week's episode. Before you sign off, please hit
the subscriber follow button on whatever. After you're listening to,
you can go to our website. You can also listen there.
It's Crimes Anddconsequences dot com. We have merchandise. I know
we're gonna be redoing some of it, so we're working
(38:08):
on it. And if you really enjoy the episodes that
Shannon and I do, we have a Patreon. It is
Patreon dot com, slash tnt Crimes. You can also subscribe
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you get all of the weekly episodes that we published
for free. You get those early release and you get
(38:29):
one episode a week in addition to the ones we
release for free. So if you're really enjoying the podcast,
consider that for a very low price a month, you
can do that.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
For great stories and entertainment. We are considering tasing around
some ideas in the boardroom with one of the videos,
maybe quarterly.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, episode we're in like bondage wear and it will
be called Crimes and Consequences and Tips and that should
be a good show. I just made that up. I'm
in a mood right now.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know, we're really yeah, we're hurting for subscribing.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We're really scrambling for some creativity and.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Go a different route.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, really spice it up, all right, my friend?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
All right, my friend, I will see you later and
thank you all for listening again. So until next week.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Until next week, I love you, girl, See you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
You bye.
This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this
(00:37):
is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore
true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you?
I'm doing great? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I am doing fucking fabulous because it's Saturday, Saturday, the weekend,
and here we are recording on a weekend. We love
you guys so much. Yes, of course, gosh, I have
to tell you. I'm gonna put it on there. Maybe
I'll just have a little post on the Patreon. I
(01:09):
have the best incense, Like I'm an incense girl. I
like to have my house smelling like a holy Indian
temple at all times, you know, between pachuli and sage
and frankincense. I found this box of the stick and
it's the good sticks. It's not the bad sticks brand.
I think Satya and they have nineteen sixties pechuli. That's
(01:34):
what it's called. Nineteen or sixties pachuli. Tanya. I can't
help but I feel like my ankles get wings and
I'm just like happily like, oh, my gosh, I can
hear Mama's in the papas. I'm like, oh, my previous
life is just coming through. So that's what I got
(01:55):
going on. What about you? Nice?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Nice? I have done jack shit today. I'm happy about
that preach. I like, I think that my daughter and
I are gonna go get some ramen for dinner. My
husband is working tonight, so I think we're gonna go
get some ramen for dinner. So that's what I have
in store. So nice. Last week I told the story
(02:20):
of Stephen Stainer, Yes, and I alluded that that was
like part one. It was part one of a two
part series about the Stainer brothers, because Stephen not only
had a crazy story, but his brother Carrie also had
a crazy story. And Carrie is a little bit younger
than Stephen, but they both went in very different directions.
(02:43):
So before I get started, I would just like to
remind everyone to hit the subscriber follow button on whatever
AF you're listening to. And my story begins. In February
of nineteen ninety nine, forty two year old Carol's son
and her fifteen year old daughter, Julie Taken, family friend
and sixteen year old Sylvina Palazzo to a vacation at
(03:05):
Yosemite National Park. Sylvina had come from Argentina as a
foreign exchange student. Carol had participated in a student exchange
program when she was young, and she met Sylvina's mother
during her time there. She rented a red Pontiert Grand
Prix for three to four hour drive to Yosemite National Park,
wanting to share the beautiful scenery and activities with the teenagers.
(03:28):
They were going to stay the night and make the
drive back the next day, where they planned to meet
Carol's husband Gens. Well it's actually YenS, but it's spelled Gens.
You know, Jay sounds like a why. They were going
to meet him at the San Francisco airport to return
the rental car, but they never showed up. YenS made
frantic calls to the airport, the hotel, and their neighbors.
(03:52):
No one had seed them or had any information on
where they could be. Eventually he called the sheriff and
the police. He thought they possibly had gotten maybe into
a car wreck while driving back. It was February and
there was still a good amount of snow and ice
lingering in Yosemite Park. He said, the thought of violence
or other criminal activities hadn't really crossed his mind at
(04:14):
that point. Days turned into weeks with no new leads.
The Palazzos family came from Argentina to join the search
for their daughter. It was the largest search that had
taken place in Yosemite history. Carol, Julie and Sylvina planned
to stay near Yosemite at a rustic lodge in a
prime location just seven miles outside the main entrance gate
(04:37):
of the park called Cedar Lodge. The lodge was made
of several buildings, an outdoor pool and hot tub, and
detached restaurant. When law enforcement arrived at Cedar Lodge to
conduct interviews, you know, gathering information, they toured around the
grounds and had all the rooms opened up for them
to search by the properties maintenance man. Flyers with the
(04:59):
women's pictures and a photo of the car were in
the news and hung up in the surrounding areas. On
March eighteenth, nineteen ninety nine, so this is maybe like
five weeks, a man named James Power stumbled upon a car,
a Pontiac Grand Prix, while on a hike in Yosemite,
about one hundred miles from the Cedar lodge in a
(05:20):
secluded area about one hundred yards north of Highway one
oh eight. The vehicle had been set on fire and
had been burnt so thoroughly that there was no paint, rubber, plastic,
or upholstery left. The hiker called, yeah, I know, it's
quite a thorough.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Job and right in the middle of nowhere in Yosemite.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right right. Hiker called the California Highway Patrol to report
the location. When they arrived the following day, investigators opened
the trunk and found the remains of two bodies burnt
beyond identification. Evidence surround the car was collected. They had
found the keys to the car, shoes, a personal CD player,
(05:58):
and a camera. Within the pictures that had been taken
with the camera, there were shots of Carol, Julie, and Sylvina.
Photos of the ladies hiking through Yosemite ice, skating, and
in their room at the lodge doing handstands and relaxing
like those were all on the camera. When the bodies
that were found in the trunk were eventually identified, they
(06:20):
were found to be Carol's sunnd and Sylvina Palasso. Reports
of the discovery of two of the three women being
found spread across the country with one big question remaining,
where was Julie. With so many unanswered questions and a
killer on the loose, everyone was afraid. Tourism at Yosemite dropped,
(06:41):
with even locals no longer visiting the park, resort, and restaurant.
While spring had always been a time when Yosemite began
blooming with greenery and new life, the spring of nineteen
ninety nine was different. Searchers were combing through the countryside roads,
ditches and the rivers round where the vehicle had been found,
(07:02):
with no sign of Julie. It was in late March
when the authorities finally received another clue. This one was
in the form of a taunting letter. When it was opened,
it showed a note that said, quote we had fun
with this one end quote, with a crudely drawn map underneath.
The map showed Highway one twenty, the Don Pedro Reservoir,
(07:23):
and a place called Vista Point with an X marked
close by. Searchers began feeling hope that with this clue
they might find Julie alive. The investigation moved to the
area shown on the map and a cadaver dog was
brought in. It was about forty miles from where the
car was found. The dog only needed ten seconds to
find Julie's body. Oh my gosh, she had been raped
(07:46):
and her throat was slit. Over the course of several weeks,
a task force made of FBI agents and other law
enforcement officers was created to begin rounding up suspects consisting
of sex offenders, drug users, and next convicts with a
history of violent offenses, focusing on people that would have
been familiar with the area. It was stated in Newsweek quote,
(08:09):
the FBI believes that the killer knows the area of
abandoned gold mines well enough to hide the car off
a spur road where locals dump old refrigerators, cars, and
washing machines, and well enough to know that the smell
of a burning car would likely not attract attention because
the air often reeks from people burning their garbage end quote.
(08:31):
It was mid April when the FBI announced the key
players in the Sightseer slings had been arrested and were
in jail on unrelated charges. Forty two year old Michael
mick Larwick had been a longtime matthewser who grew up
near the area where the bodies of Carol and Sylvina
had been found arrested on March sixteenth after he'd allegedly
(08:54):
shot a Modesto police officer, which led to a fourteen
hour standoff. His long criminal rine didn't vode well for
him during his lengthy FBI interview. Larwick's half brother, thirty
two year old Eugene Rufus Dykes, had also been taken
into custody due to an unrelated parole violation connected to
(09:14):
one of his previous charges. Those previous charges included sex
and weapons convictions. He was presumed to also have been
involved in the women's disappearances. Other ex convicts the FBI
presumed to be key players included Billy Joe Strange, a
thirty nine year old parole working at the Cedar Lodge
(09:35):
restaurant who'd been arrested when his parole officer went to
visit him and allegedly smelled alcohol on his breath. Many
people actually rushed to his defense, calling the FBI's suspicion
a travesty. So just to put that in there.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They're so desperate to to try to find somebody to
pin it on, Yet to.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Pin it on. Also taken into custody was Darryl Grace
Stephens at fifty five years old. Stranger's roommate mister Stevens
had been convicted in nineteen seventy eight for rape and robbery.
He was jailed on March fourteenth for failing to register
as a sex offender. By the summer of nineteen ninety nine,
(10:17):
after the announcement of the arrests, tourists began returning to
the park and things were beginning to go back to normal.
Five months had passed with no other murders. People were
feeling safe, believing that the predators were in custody. About
nineteen miles from the Cedar Lodge on the western side
of the park is an area called Foresta. Looking from
(10:38):
some of the mountainous ridges above, you will see a
place the locals called Big Meadow, where an old house
referred to as the Grand Cabin sits. At the time,
the cabin was owned by the Park Service and leased
for a dollar a year to the Yosemite Institute, which
runs educational programs throughout the park. During the summer of
nineteen ninety nine, the cabin was occupied by twenty five
(11:00):
six year old Joey Armstrong, employed as a naturalist at
the park, Joey was responsible for educating children about the
nature in Yosemite. Described as sensitive, loving, kind, and smart,
she claimed to have not been afraid while she was
employed there, while law enforcement was hunting for the killer
that spring. Her diary celebrated the day the FBI announced
(11:22):
that they had detained the suspects, stating quote the monsters
are gone end quote. On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine,
Joey was picking up her Toyota Tacoma for a trip
with friends. She never arrived at their meeting spot. Her
friends knew Joey well, so they knew something had to
be wrong. When her friends called Yosemite, the search for
(11:44):
the young woman started immediately. Beginning in the cabin, investigators
found debris on the floor of the bedroom, including broken
sunglasses and a red mechanics hat. It wasn't until the
next day, when the search of the grounds around the
cabin began, that someone spotted what they thought was an
inanimate object bobbing in the water. When they walked over
(12:04):
for a closer look, they found Joey's decapitated body.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh my gosh, I know.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Initially, investigators did not believe the two incidents were related.
When Carol, Julie and Sylvina were killed, everything was cleanly done.
There was no evidence to speak of. The scene of
Joey's murder included a mountain of evidence. The events didn't compare,
and the authorities didn't want to cause panic without knowing
all the facts. Eyewitnesses had spotted a blue and white
(12:35):
International Scout off road suv on the same road Joey
lived on around the time she was murdered. Following the trail,
investigators began searching for the owner to interview as a
possible witness. The man they were looking for was the
helpful maintenance man that had toured law enforcement around the
Cedar Ridge when Carol, Julie and Sylvina had gone missing,
(12:58):
a man by the name of Carrie Stainer, the star
of our show Yes. Unfortunately, the FBI arrived at the
restaurant of the Cedar Lodge announcing they were looking for
the handyman, but he wasn't found a beyond the lookout.
A BOLO alert was put out on the news for him,
and they received a call from a woman named Janet DeMont.
(13:21):
She informed them that she'd seen and had a conversation
with the man they were looking for. When asked where,
she told them he was at a resort called Laguna
dal Soul. Laguna Del Soul is around a two hour
drive north of Yosemite, just like any other resort with
camping cabins, shuffle board, volleyball, a restaurant and bar. What
(13:42):
sets this resort apart is the fact that it's also
a nudist colony.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Oh, hiding among the nids.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, the nids. When the FBI arrived to question the witness,
the manager welcomed them inside, saying, quote, you'll be able
to recognize him because he's the only one in clothes.
I guess clothing was optional.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, you don't blend, Carrie. You're gonna want to blend.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You need to take clothes off, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Real.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
As the agents approached him, Carrie stood up and put
his hands in the air. He didn't ask any questions
about why they were looking for him or what the
questions were related to. The agents told him he was
wanted for an interview and convinced the man to ride
with one of them back to the FBI field office
in Sacramento, two hours away. The other agent drove behind
(14:31):
in a separate vehicle. During the drive, sitting in the
front seat next to agent Jeffrey Reinick, Carrie was soft
spoken and cooperative, described in much the same way as
he was when he was interviewed for information in the
case from that spring. He was helpful. The drive was
long enough that the two men began to talk. Rhyinick
said about the time he spent with Stainer driving. He
(14:54):
said this, during that time we got to know each other.
We were two guys that didn't know each other, that
were stuck doing something that we really didn't want to
be doing, and so we were making the best of it.
We were just talking about us. The agent, recognizing Carrie's
last name, asked him if he was related to Stephen Stainer,
the childhood gone missing at seven years old. You know
(15:16):
the story that I told you last week.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As Carrie opened up about how upsetting it was that
the man Parnell who had kidnapped Stephen, it was upsetting
that he had gotten off so easily, Carrie became emotionally flustered,
and he questioned the lenient sentence recounted by Nick. He said,
he went to prison for seven years, and yet they
(15:39):
held Stephen for seven years and he felt that was
really not right, and I agreed with him. I had
no problem. I agree with you, Yes, recalled right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Carrie was the oldest of delberton Ky's five children, and
he was born on August thirteenth, nineteen sixty one, making
him a leo. Such a leo that right smack dab
in the middle of this middle. Friends said he was nice, quiet, creative,
and extremely smart. It was said he looked after his siblings.
(16:13):
At three years old, Carrie was diagnosed with trichotillomania, a
condition which causes him to compulsively pull out his hair.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Although he was put on medication for the condition, it
continued to affect him through high school, leading to bald spots,
forcing him to always wear a hat, and caused him
to be subject to severe bullying because kids are dicks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
They are kids are dicks, and God forbid you have
something like this, right, No, right, I mean you can't
even have a freckle or a mole let alone a
condition that you know, Yeah, you're doing your best to
deal with. Sometimes I pull my hair out.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oka he causes noticeable catches. Yes, exactly, It's hard. Despite
the teachers. I noticed that Carrie was exhibiting higher than
average intelligence. He was moved to accelerated classes in junior
high Also known as a talented cartoonist, being showcased in
the school newspaper, he was ultimately voted most creative in
(17:14):
his senior class. After Stephen's disappearance, the entire family dynamic shifted.
His father became an emotional rock and his mother became
extremely distant, raising her children almost an autopilot. Both parents
became colder to the children that they were still raising.
Carrie felt abandoned and neglected through it all. Carrie said
(17:36):
that he would go out for walks at night and
look at the stars, wishing on one of them for
Stephen to come home, and then Stephen came back. When
his brother returned, Stephen was practically a stranger, being forced
to share a room. The teens didn't get along. Carrie
felt he'd been put on the shelf when Stephen disappeared,
but it was even more pronounced when Stephen returned, confirming
(17:58):
his place in the background of his family, making him
even more frustrated by the publicity surrounding his brother. After
graduating high school in nineteen seventy nine, Carrie was lost.
When he was overwhelmed or needed space, he would drive
out on Highway one oh four into Yosemite in his
pale blue and white nineteen seventy two International Scout and
(18:19):
disappeared into the woods and smoked weed.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, Carrie had emotional difficulties, some that people knew about,
and some he kept to himself. Beginning as young as
seven years old, Carrie said he had begun fantasizing about
abducting and murdering women. He was also found to have
exposed himself to a friend of one of his sisters
as a teenager, while the girl was staying over at
(18:45):
their house. Carrie had crept under the cot she was
sleeping in and reached up to touch her breasts. When
she told him to go away, he left the room,
only to reappear later fully nude, prompting her to tell
him to leave a second time. When other boys age
started dating, Carrie did not. He was believed to be
the cliche, quiet, artistic type. Girls want to go out
(19:07):
with the tall, dark, athletic boy who had brooding hazel eyes,
but Carrie would never oblige. In nineteen eighty nine, Stephen
passed away and shortly after, in nineteen ninety, Carrie's uncle
that he'd been living with was shot and killed in
the home they shared together. And the family has.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Some gosh, that is so much for one family.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
One family, that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's just yeah, it's to take it all in. I
don't even know, like I put it myself in their
mom's place, you know, like with Stephen gone. And then
how last week we were talking about, you know, like
the reacclamation into the family after being gone so long,
he came back right before school started and bad a boom,
(19:51):
bat a bang right back in school, right, you know.
So that's just a lot of people going through a
lot of things at the same time.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Wow, that is Carrie's emotions began to boil. In the
early nineties. Carrie was working as a window installer at
a glass company after graduating high school. He developed a
fantasy that he was going to ram a truck into
the shop, killing everyone there, and then setting the place
on fire. He had some crazy, intrusive thoughts.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
That is crazy, the only kind of violent. I remember
when I was married and I didn't want to be
married anymore, and I remember being like at this right
turn on the street, and I thought, man, if they
someone could just hit the driver's side because he was driving,
you know, this would just work out. I would be,
you know, safe from the impact. And she hadn't no
(20:45):
longer married. So Steve would like, well, I can kind
of relate to violent thoughts like that. But that was
many many moons ago, yes, long time ago. But how
do you just have these thoughts of just like I'm seven,
what'd you say? He was thinking about killing and raping
women already already? I know, what do you watch? I
(21:05):
don't eat. But it's hard what he was going through
at that time. Who knows?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, who knows. Opening about his potential violent breakdown to
his friends, they noticed his cry for help and took
him to a mental health care center and got him checked,
but soon after, Carrie checked himself out, preferring to take
refuge in Yosemite. Soon after, Carrie went into work to
pick up his paycheck and never return there for a shift,
(21:32):
telling the owner he was thinking about moving. Struggling for
decades to control his impulses, he ended up taking a
job at the Cedar Lodge in nineteen ninety seven as
a maintenance man. Yosemite had always provided him with serenity
going up there to smoke pot and sun bathed naked.
He was a highly regarded employee, to the extent that
(21:53):
the owner would send his own kids out to help
Carrie with the hotel maintenance and learn from him. With
all the compliments that he got. Not all the people
he came across had the wold pulled over their eyes. However,
Tricia Howtis and her husband ran the restaurant at the lodge.
Their daughter enjoyed swimming in the pool during the summer months,
(22:14):
and she described how Carrie would stand and stare at
their daughter while she was swimming, to the point that
it would freak the girl out. She described him as
cold and hateful. Tricia once even confronted Carrie saying, quote,
if you go toward my daughter ever, I will destroy you.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
That's mama, bear right there.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, don't you like your kid?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Exact right.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
None of this was known to the FBI agents at
the point they went to collect Carrie at the Nudest Colony.
He wasn't suspected of murder. The emotional connection the agent
built with the man was genuine, and they built a bond.
While talking about his brother, but Carrie was still manipulative.
On the drive, Agent Ryanik kept looking over at Carrie
(22:58):
and would say occasionally, quote, you look just like Billy
Jack end quote, asking him if he ever saw the
nineteen seventy one movie, Carrie would repeatedly deny having seen it.
They also connected over a song in it called One
Tin Soldier. Eventually, Carrie, Jeff, and the agent that had
been following behind reached the Sacramento office for an interview,
(23:18):
and before they walked in the door, Carrie stopped and
said this line from the movie quote, I'm gonna take
this right foot and I'm gonna whoop you that side
of your face. There's not a damn thing you can
do about it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Both men laughed as they walked in. But the fact
that for the whole two hour car ride Carrie had
denied seeing the movie and then could stand there and
quote that line is a small window into the manipulation. Yes, like,
why are you lying about it? It's just fucking weird,
it is, But.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's a good peek into someone who's fucking with you,
you know. It's just like, oh, I see, and it
does kind of remind me of the quote did you
ever watch kingo QUI means oh yeah. Remember Carrie wanted
to get something inscribed that romantic that Doug had said
to her, and it was the Eric Estrata movie with
(24:09):
this monkey that he ends up saying, you didn't just
save my life brown eyes. It's what Eric Strata said
to the monkey. Doug said to Carrie, you made my
life saving or something like that. Fucky love that show.
But but the quoting and mm hmmm, it is a
(24:30):
good window into the because I bet you he sent
something like, come on, man, I know you saw it.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You have to have seen it, you know, right, yeah,
especially since he looks like the person is yes, it
can't be the check it out just for that, right right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I can't believe I'm the first one telling you you
look like this.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Right in the field office, the agents and Carrie were
sitting in a room together eating pizza in the episode
of twenty twenty titled Evil and Eden. Because this is
like an episode that made out of the story. The
agent side quote as a general rule, when law enforcement
are interrogating a suspect, they don't order a pizza end quote.
(25:10):
But this was an interview, non interrogation either of the
agents knew who they were bringing in. Carrie did, however,
and while the agents were trying to decide where to
start their interview, Carrie opened up and said, this is
going to be my last meal as a free man.
I can give you closure. The agents asked what closure,
and he said, quote, I can answer questions for you
(25:32):
about Joey and more dangling a confession. Carrie began his
negotiation with three requests. First, a reward had been offered
for information leading to the capture of the killer of
Joey Armstrong. Carrie wanted his family to receive the reward money. Second,
he wanted to end up in federal prison near his family.
(25:54):
And lastly, he wanted child pornography pictures of young girls.
Just a couple of images, but a stack, is what
he said.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's he wanted a stack of child porn for the reward, to.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Go to his family, yes, and to end up in
federal prison. So Agent Ryanick says to him, well, you
have to pick one. Which one of those three things
do you want? And he chose the child porn.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
To get the discussion moving, the agents didn't say no
and quote, you never say no. To them. You basically
put them off, saying we're going to get to that.
I know you want it. I'd like you to have it,
but you move it down the ladder end quote to
buy some time after that. Carrie Stainer's confession began on
July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine. Carrie had left the
(26:43):
Cedar Lodge in his blue and white International Scout and
taken a back road known mostly to the workers, into foresta.
This was something he regularly did. He genuinely enjoyed getting
out into nature to relieve his stress. He got out
of his truck and was walking, looking around and throwing
rocks in the water. He wasn't hunting for anyone. An
opportunity simply presented itself. He happened to look and notice
(27:06):
a petite blonde girl moving in and out of the
grand cabin. It looked like she was probably alone. Joey,
excited about the trip she had planned with her friends,
was going in and out of the house, pecking up
her truck and getting ready to leave. As Carrie watched,
he decided to get a little closer to get a
better look. He went back to his truck to pull
a green backpack out of the back seat. This was
(27:27):
Carrie's murder kit. Inside held a twenty two revolver, a
large knife, and a roll of duct tape. Approaching her,
he began to make conversation, looking behind her and into
the cabin. He wanted to make sure no one else
was there. Quote. She stepped up on the porch and
she was talking to me, and that's when I pulled
(27:49):
out the gun and put it to her head. She
turned around and freaked out, and I told her go inside.
End quote. He used the gun to direct her into
the house and into the bedroom, where he began binding
her with the duct tape and stuffing a gag in
her mouth. The large athletic man had a difficult time
subduing the petite woman. She fought back with everything in
her and he barely was able to win the struggle,
(28:11):
but in the end he was able to constrain her
arms with the tape. Using the gun again, he guided
her to his car, picking her up and tossing her
into the back seat before he drove away. While he
was driving, she continued to fight back, Carrie said, quote.
She started going crazy, just jumping all over the place
in the back of the truck. I really couldn't control
(28:31):
her end quote. She flung herself out through the window
onto the road in front of a barn. I slammed
the truck into park, and I jumped out, and she
got up off the ground and started running. Carrie didn't
expect this much of a fight. His fantasies never included
any resistance. He gave chase, eventually catching up to her,
after which he took the knife out of his back
(28:52):
pocket and slit her throat. At the end of this confession,
and without giving the kiddy porn to the now confessed killer,
the investigation gators still weren't sure what the quote and
more end quote portion of Carrie's confession entailed, or if
they would ever find out. Attempting to coax it out
of him, Jeff told the man, quote, you look better.
You need to get the rest off your chest.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
There was a long dramatic pause before Carrie said, Okay,
let's do it. In February nineteen ninety nine, Carrie had
been working at the Cedar Lodge for two years. It
was not the busy season, so he'd been laid off
until tourism picked up in the spring. The area was
deserted in the winter. February fifteenth was Monday, so many
of the guests had left after Valentine's weekend. Carol, Julie
(29:38):
and Sylvina's room, number five oh nine was far from
the lobby, in a secluded, dark corner of the lot.
The ladies had gone out to eat and went to
the front desk to rent Jerry McGuire to watch in
their room. It was determined that the final picture taken
on the camera found in the woods of Carol and
Sylvina sitting on the beds in the hotel room was
(29:58):
taken about twenty minutes before Carrie knocked on the door.
Carrie had been planning for years. He repeatedly played out
scenarios in his mind. When he was walking to his
room that night above the restaurant, he noticed there was
a red car in the parking lot of the five
hundred building, all by itself. The curtains to the windows
were open, and when he walked by he could see
(30:19):
women inside, three women. Noting there were no men around,
he knocked on the door and when Carol answered, he
told her that there was a leak in a room
upstairs and he needed to access their bathroom to make
the repair. Carol answered absolutely not right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
The girls were in their pajamas and they were settling
in for the night. When Carrie told her that if
she didn't let him in, they would have to move
to another room because the leak couldn't continue. She relented.
Carrie said, quote, they let me in. I went to
the bathroom and checked the fans where I told them
the leak probably would be. When I came out of
the bathroom, I pulled my gun out and I told
them I wanted the money and keys to the car,
(31:00):
directed Julie and Sylvina into the bathroom and used the
duct tape to bind Carol before he strangled her with
a rope so he kills.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
The adult first.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
When he was done, he wrapped her up and put
her in the trunk of the red Pontiac rental car.
Then he went back to the hotel room and released
the teenagers from the bathroom, sexually assaulting them. Sylvina resisted.
After she attempted to fight back, Carrie took her back
into the bathroom and strangled her. He said, quote. The
Paloso girl couldn't speak very good English and was crying
(31:31):
a lot and Julie was very calm, She was very cooperative.
She did everything I told her to, no tears, know nothing, unquote.
Knowing seeing the body of her young friend lifeless would
panic Julie. Carrie moved her into the neighboring room, Room
five ten while he wrapped Sylvina's body and put her
in the trunk with Carol. Then he went back to
(31:52):
collect Julie, telling her to get in the car. It
was getting pretty late, probably five o'clock or so in
the morning. I told Julie we had to get someplace
to go and I wouldn't harm her, so I put
her in the car. Her hands were duct taped in
front of her. I wrapped a pink blanket around her,
and I just drove. I didn't know where I was going.
I didn't know what I was going to do. I
(32:12):
took Julie out of the car. I carried her down
the pathway an agent Ryan had clarified that he was
carrying her like a groom carries a bride, and I
laid out the blanket. I guess I knew what I
was going to do because I had the knife with me,
and I slid her throat, saying after he killed her.
He stood on the mountain marveling at the beautiful view
of the rising sun.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
What a fucking asshole, I know. I also find it's
very monstrous. I guess too as a serial killer to
give a victim review. Oh she went ham, she was
going crazy. She did everything I told her to do. Oh,
she wasn't good in her English. Shut the fuck up.
(32:53):
Nobody wants your opinion. Nobody wants you here.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You don't need Yeah, I don't need your commentary.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Thank you, dick.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
The next time Carrie was seen, he was one hundred
miles from the Cedar Lodge in a town called Sierra Village,
when he used a payphone to call a cab. His
explanation to the driver was that he had come from
Yosemite with some other people and they left him stranded
there with no way back. The red Pontiac would eventually
be found just a short walk from where the driver
picked him up. After that confession, quite nonchalantly, Carrie added, quote,
(33:25):
I'd been gone most of the day off the property.
I was at my girlfriend's house, and I guess this
girlfriend and her two daughters were my original intended victims.
End quote. Okay, Carrie's girlfriend was a waitress in the
restaurant at the Cedar Lodge in nineteen ninety eight. Her
two daughters were in their preteens. They loved him and
(33:45):
felt safe around him, describing him as handsome and warm.
They said they felt he was like a big teddy bear.
The day after Valentine's Day was the day he planned
to kill his girlfriend and rape and kill her daughters.
But while he was at her house there was another
person there too, so he had to abandon his plan.
But he said he was really amped up, quote unquote.
(34:10):
He got back to the resort late and thought that
he could calm down if he soaked in hot tub.
He went down to the hot tub and it was dirty,
and he was frustrated and annoyed. So he was taking
a walk around the property when he saw Carol and
the girls in the number five hundred building. The authorities
arrested thirty seven year old Carrie Stainer in July nineteen
ninety nine. Stainer accompanied law enforcement into Yosemite to help
(34:32):
them find the murder weapon he used on Julie, as
well as the duct tape. They also found his watch.
He was sentenced to life in prison without parole for
Joey Armstrong's murder after pleading guilty to premeditated first degree murder, felony,
first degree murder, kidnapping resulting in death, and attempted aggravated
sexual assault. He pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity
(34:56):
to the murders of Carol, Julie and Sylvena, but he
was victed a first degree murder with special circumstances in
one count of kidnapping. It was sentenced to death on
August twenty seventh, two thousand and two. He is in
San Quentin Prison right now.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Awaiting his execution.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Waiting his execution, but California has put a stay on
all executions, so he'll never be executed. Probably. But he
also did not get his kitty porn. Well, Yes, Sage
asking the FBI agents for kitty porn with a straight face. Yeah,
I can't even believe these guys, these men and women,
the officers.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
They must hear some crazy shit shit that you know,
would you really need to contain ourselves? Good cop, bad Cop.
I just got done watching the other guys. And when
Will Ferrell gets confused about the bad cop, good cop,
so it's bad he does bad cop, bad cop. That's
would be me. I'd be like, I'm always bad cop.
Let me be bad cop.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I know. I'm like, Okay, I want three things. I
want family to have the money I want I forget
what the second one was, and I want kitty porn. Okay,
well you can only pick one. Okay, then I want
the porn you're asking the FBI, Like, okay, I just
do you.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Know your audience? Yeah, you know who you're asking your venue.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
For, like a Playboy magazine or something.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
No, yeah, something just fucking piggish and illegal.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Like the FBI is gonna hand over some illegal shit
to you, our fucking evidence lacker for all the fucking
kitty porn that we've rounded up over the years, and
let me just sport through and pick up some good
ship for you.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Like really, what, sure, Carrie? Sure?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Hold on?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, that get fucked. It's Winton. Well that is crazy
about both brothers. Two tragedies in one family. Oh and
then the one the uncle, Yes, who even knows. We
just know about three and they are very horrific, you know, terrible,
Like I'm glad you found this story. I had no
(36:59):
idea that lightning could strike twice, you know in a way,
like I.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
What you always think, right, Like, this is what I
think about plane crashes. Okay, I always think, Okay, if
there was one recent, I'm gonna get on the plane
and I'll be fine. Because there was one that was recent.
Ye it's been a few years or whatever. I'm like, ooh,
it could happen to me. I know it's a stupid thought,
but those are my thoughts. But I just am like,
how can one family have such a horrific story more
(37:31):
than once? Yes, completely different, right, but newsworthy and horrific
and mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, so many victims, including that whole family, you know,
just amazing. But yeah, thanks for bringing it, Ninja.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
You're welcome. You're welcome. So thank you everyone for listening
to this week's episode. Before you sign off, please hit
the subscriber follow button on whatever. After you're listening to,
you can go to our website. You can also listen there.
It's Crimes Anddconsequences dot com. We have merchandise. I know
we're gonna be redoing some of it, so we're working
(38:08):
on it. And if you really enjoy the episodes that
Shannon and I do, we have a Patreon. It is
Patreon dot com, slash tnt Crimes. You can also subscribe
through Apple Podcasts, and what you get with that is
you get all of the weekly episodes that we published
for free. You get those early release and you get
(38:29):
one episode a week in addition to the ones we
release for free. So if you're really enjoying the podcast,
consider that for a very low price a month, you
can do that.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
For great stories and entertainment. We are considering tasing around
some ideas in the boardroom with one of the videos,
maybe quarterly.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, episode we're in like bondage wear and it will
be called Crimes and Consequences and Tips and that should
be a good show. I just made that up. I'm
in a mood right now.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know, we're really yeah, we're hurting for subscribing.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We're really scrambling for some creativity and.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Go a different route.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, really spice it up, all right, my friend?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
All right, my friend, I will see you later and
thank you all for listening again. So until next week.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Until next week, I love you, girl, See you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
You bye.
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