American Made

Episode Transcript
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Ashley (00:08):
Welcome to Criminal Adaptations, the show where we
take a look at some of yourfavorite movies and the true
crime stories that inspired them.
I'm Ashley.
I'm a clinical psychologist andforensic evaluator in the state
of Oregon.

Remi (00:21):
And I'm Remy.
I spent over a decade workingin the film and television
industry in Los Angeles,california, and welcome back
everybody for our season threefinale.
Thank you all so much forjoining us and hanging in there
for the past three seasons,which is crazy to me.
How are you doing today, ashley?

Ashley (00:42):
I'm doing good.
We are recording the morning ofThanksgiving, so so much to be
thankful for this year that abit later, and tomorrow is
actually my birthday.

Remi (01:06):
So season finale, Thanksgiving and birthday all in
the next 48 hours, so reallyexciting times we're living in
huh, but I digress.
What are we talking about today, Ashley?

Ashley (01:17):
Today we are talking about American Made, the story
inspired by pilot Barry Seale,starring Tom Cruise.

Remi (01:27):
Had you ever heard of this film before?

Ashley (01:30):
I saw this film once.
As usual, I find myself sayingthis a lot.
It was a long time ago and Idon't remember anything about it
, but I do remember enjoying itwhen I watched it and I think I
was aware at the time that itwas based on a true story.
I think it says that at thebeginning, but I knew nothing
about the real Barry Seale.

Remi (01:52):
I did see this as well a long time ago.
I think I got a screener orsomething.
I didn't see it in theaters.
I do remember that.
But my memory must not be toogreat, because every time I
think back on this I think of ascene with Tom Cruise in an
airplane and he's flying aroundthe back of it.
But that's from the movie theMummy, which actually came out
the same year as this one.

(02:12):
So I think I have my wirescrossed on which movie I'm
actually remembering.
But I have seen this one.
It just didn't leave much of aimpression on me, I guess.
But what about Tom Cruise.
Are you a Tom Cruise fan?
This is probably the first timeand I think we have one other
Tom Cruise movie in the futurewe will be covering.
But what are your thoughts onMr Cruise and his illustrious

(02:34):
career?

Ashley (02:35):
Yeah, the movie we're going to be talking about next
season A Few Good Men, I thinkis more of my style of Tom
Cruise.
I really like his older stuff,when he was still trying a lot
of new things and doing reallydramatic roles.
Now I feel like he just is anaction star and he's perfectly

(02:57):
content with just being anaction star.
I don't like any of the MissionImpossibles.
I did not like the remake ofthe Mummy, or I guess not the
remake.
The second Top Gun was fine,but his stuff like Jerry Maguire
and Rain man and Interview witha Vampire those are all so good

(03:19):
and I just miss him going formovies like that.

Remi (03:24):
I definitely agree.
I think Tom Cruise is a goodactor when he applies himself,
but he's kind of relegatedhimself to glorified stuntman at
this point in his career.
But when I was doing myresearch for this film it had me
wondering a lot about TomCruise's preparation for A Few.
Good Men Because primarily forthis one.

(03:45):
It seems like all of his prepwas learning to fly different
planes.
I don't think he did a lot ofresearch into the real-life
Barry Seal, but I think youngerTom Cruise would have.
So I'm curious if A Few GoodMen Tom Cruise did more research
and actually tried to make thecharacter closer to the real

(04:05):
life counterpart rather thanjust being Tom Cruise.
But time will tell on that one.

Ashley (04:10):
We all know Tom Cruise loves a good airplane, so it's
unsurprising he wanted to do allthe flying for this movie.

Remi (04:18):
There is going to be a lot of airplane talk in this
episode.
Neither one of us know a tonabout planes or piloting or any
of that sort of thing, but thiswas definitely a crash course in
all of that sort of subjectmatter.
But enough dilly-dallying.
Should we jump on in toAmerican Made Ashley?

Ashley (04:38):
Let's do it.

Remi (04:54):
American Made is a 2017 action comedy written by Gary
Spinelli, directed by Doug Lymanand starring Tom Cruise,
domhnall Gleeson, sarah Wright,alejandro Eta and Jesse Plemons.
Jesse Plemons is almost noteven worth mentioning in this
film.
I think he has maybe three orfour lines and possibly two
minutes of screen time.
It is really a waste of Plemons.

Ashley (05:11):
This is before.
I think he really came into hisown.

Remi (05:15):
This is another movie that reminded me of Killers of the
Flower Moon, where I beganthinking to myself should Jesse
Plemons have played Barry?
He seems like he would have donea really good job in that role
and he physically resemblesBarry more than Cruise does in
my opinion Screenwriter GarySpinelli first began working on
American Made during the summerof 2013, and shared the

(05:37):
following statement in thefilm's bonus features regarding
his original inception of theproject.
I was looking for little hiddenpieces of history, small
stories that affected largerglobal events, and I came across
the Mina story and I alwayswanted to do a gangster film.
Goodfellas is one of myfavorite movies and I was always

(05:58):
on the hunt to try and find myversion of that, and once I
started researching CIA'sinvolvement in Mina, the same
name kept popping up.
Was this Barry Seal?
As soon as I found Barry, Iknew I had a movie, and I will
point out right now MinaArkansas is what he is referring
to when he says Mina,originally titled, mina

(06:19):
Spinelli's script ended up beingfeatured on the 2014 Blacklist
as one of the best unproducedscreenplays in all of Hollywood,
until eventually finding itsway into the hands of director
Doug Liman, who had already madea name for himself with his
previous films Swingers, theBourne Identity and Edge of
Tomorrow.
I was actually a pretty big DougLiman fan back in the day.

(06:41):
My fandom has faded a bit inhis later years, but he is
probably one of the directorsthat did get me interested in
film.
To begin with, with his earlierworks like Swingers and Go.

Ashley (06:52):
So fun fact, remy, this film was actually supposed to be
titled Mina, or Mena, howeveryou say it, but it got stalled
in mid-October 2015 after BarrySeale's daughter from his first
of three marriages actually suedUniversal Pictures.
In the suit, she claimed thatSeale's third wife sold his

(07:13):
story rights without courtapproval or consent from Seale's
estate, and I think more so.
What she was upset about wasshe claimed that the story
contained factual inaccuraciesthat damaged Seal's overall
persona.
I think her biggest claims, shesaid, was that they falsely
portrayed him as like a drunkand a reckless pilot.

(07:36):
So for a couple years, the filmwas stalled and the lawsuit
ended up being dismissed by the2017 release date, and they
changed the name from Mina toAmerican Made.

Remi (07:50):
That is surprising to me because, based on this film, it
seems like the filmmakers wentout of their way to portray
Barry in a positive light andnot a negative light.
I'll get into more exampleswhen we're going through the
film, but that is surprising tome.
He does not use drugs in themovie, he does not drink in the

(08:10):
movie and a big part of hismotivation is taking care of his
family.
So it is strange to me that shewould object to how he was
portrayed, because in my opinionhe's probably portrayed better
than he actually was, but timewill tell on that one.
I do know they changed a lot,though.
When Doug Lyman first readSpinelli's screenplay, he

(08:30):
realized once he had gotten tothe end, that he had been
reading a story that he alreadyknew.
In fact, lyman had a personalconnection to the events due to
his father running theinvestigation into the
Iran-Contra affair.
Lyman had been well-versed inthe events since his college
days, but the thought of makingthe story into a film had never

(08:51):
even once occurred to him and apersonal note here I had heard
of the Iran-Contra affair before, but never really could grasp
what it was, until I did thispodcast and really had to do a
deep dive into it.
Now I feel very well-versed inthe Iran-Contra affair.
Lyman has also admitted that hehas a penchant for stories

(09:12):
centered around anti-heroes andspies, and Spinelli's screenplay
served as the perfectopportunity to combine both
interests into a single project.
Lyman had previously lovedworking with
actor-turned-stuntman Tom Cruiseon their 2014 film Edge of
Tomorrow and thought it would befun to cast Cruise as the lead
role of Barry, since Barry Sealwas literally the polar opposite

(09:36):
of Cruise's character Maverickin the Top Gun films.
So sort of as a reverse castingchoice, I guess.
Tickled by the idea, lyman sentCruise the script and on
January 14, 2015, it wasofficially announced that Tom
Cruise and Doug Lyman would bere-teaming for their next
project together.
At the time of his casting, tomCruise was 55 years old, while

(09:59):
the real Barry Seal had beenassassinated when he was only 46
.
Diego Luna, john Leguizamo,michael Pina and Pedro Pascal
were all at one point consideredfor the role of Jorge Ochoa,
before the part ultimately wentto Alejandro Eta, who was
primarily known for his work invideo games.
It does seem funny that theywere considering all these

(10:21):
really big named actors and thenit went to kind of an unknown
actor in the end, but I wouldhave liked to see Michael Pena
or John Leguizamo or PedroPascal in this role honestly.

Ashley (10:32):
I wonder if Pedro Pascal would have gotten it, if that
would have impacted his castingfor Narcos.

Remi (10:39):
Oh, that is a good point, possibly actually because he was
playing the good guy on Narcos,right?
He was not one of the cartelmembers on that show.
Someday we will get to that,I'm sure.
In the original screenplay forAmerican Made, the character of
Barry's wife, lucy, was writtenas little more than an accessory
to the story, but director DougLyman pushed to give Lucy a

(11:00):
more substantial role andinsisted that her character be
more fully fleshed out.
Sarah Wright, who plays Lucy inAmerican Made, is actually
someone I remember working withback in 2008 on the film House
Bunny, and she was very nice.
She is also 21 years youngerthan her on-screen husband, tom
Cruise.
Doug Liman has a long historyof creating strong, dynamic

(11:24):
female characters, sometimeseven surpassing their male
counterparts by ensuring thatevery character is unique and
compelling.
This reputation was one of themany things that excited Sarah
Wright about working on AmericanMade.
Wright also said that she felta personal connection to Lucy,
as they are both originally fromthe South, which allowed her to
draw inspiration for hercharacter from the strong

(11:46):
Southern women she had grown uparound.

Ashley (11:48):
Good for you, Doug Limeman.
I like that.

Remi (11:51):
He does do that in a lot of his films, especially stuff
with Tom Cruise.
I'm noticing he likes to makeTom Cruise look foolish, like in
Edge of Tomorrow.
Emily Blunt is like the coolest, most badass character ever and
Cruise is kind of a bumblingidiot the whole time.
And I like the way that Lymanportrays females in his films.

Ashley (12:10):
But I bet Emily Blunt does not run in front of him,
since Tom Cruise does not allowthat.

Remi (12:16):
I don't think he ran in the movie at all.
I don't think Tom Cruise letsother people run in his movies.
That is Tom Cruise's thing.
You will not take that awayfrom him.

Ashley (12:25):
And for all of you who don't know what we're talking
about, there's a little rumorout there that Tom Cruise has
written in his contract or it'sjust kind of like an unspeakable
thing that in any movie wherehe's running, if someone's
running along with him, they arenot allowed to run in front of
him because he always has to beseen as the fastest.

Remi (12:49):
Little stuff like that that actors put into their
contracts just strikes me as soinsecure that it's hilarious
Like dude who cares.
But whatever makes you happy.
Tom Doug Liman and Tom Cruise'sshared passion for flying
brought a unique authenticity toAmerican Made.
Nearly all of the aerialsequences in the film were shot
practically with real planes andcrews flying in the pilot's
seat.
Lyman admitted that he andcrews were committed to making

(13:12):
the flight scenes as real aspossible, though they didn't
initially grasp just howchallenging that would be.
In fact, lyman later describedthe shoot as one of the most
difficult undertakings of hisentire career, comparing the
experience to essentiallyfilming car chases, but with
airplanes.
I can only imagine howdifficult that would be.
Tom Cruise, a certified pilothimself, took his commitment to

(13:35):
realism to another level byperforming all of his own flight
scenes.
During filming.
To prepare for a pivotal planecrash in the film, cruise
trained extensively with fourdifferent aircrafts,
deliberately crash landing eachone to better understand the
experience firsthand.
In the end, the crash featuredin the film was expertly piloted

(13:57):
by Cruise himself.

Ashley (13:58):
This really is just a practice for Top Gun 2.

Remi (14:02):
I think he made this movie to play around with airplanes.
In all honesty, I don't thinkhe really cared about the story
very much.
I think he made this movie toplay around with airplanes.
In all honesty, I don't thinkhe really cared about the story
very much.
I think this was his excuse tomess around with airplanes and
learn how to fly some new stuffwith his buddy Doug.
But I will say, knowing thatthe flight sequences are all
real does make it moreimpressive when you're watching

(14:23):
a few of the scenes.
Just knowing that oh, theyactually did that, that does
seem really challenging anddifficult.
It adds an appreciation to it,I guess.
But it could have all been donewith CGI very, very easily.
For his role as Barry Seal, tomCruise reportedly gained weight
to better fit the character.
Though Cruise and Seal aresimilar in stature, cruise is

(14:44):
physically quite different fromthe real Barry Seal, who was an
obese man weighing nearly 300pounds.

Ashley (14:51):
Did he gain weight?
I've seen clips of him recentlyin this and the cover.
He does not look like he'sgained weight.

Remi (14:59):
He looks exactly the same as he does in every movie.
I don't think he gained anyweight at all for this.
I think that's bullshit.
Doug Liman and Tom Cruise'spassion for flying extended
beyond shooting the film'sscenes, as they often flew
themselves to and from set usingtheir own planes.
Liman has also stated that theairplane featured in the film
only made it to South Americabecause Cruise had personally

(15:22):
piloted it there.
Cruise additionally flew theentire crew out to the
rainforest in order to shootseveral other scenes on location
.
During filming, tom Cruise,doug Liman and screenwriter Gary
Spinelli all lived together inthe house used for the movie's
set.
Though they all shared thehouse's chores, cruise kept a
separate section of therefrigerator all to himself to

(15:44):
avoid contamination from Lyman'sjunk food.
A little weird, tom.
The trio would spend theirevenings reflecting on the day's
work, brainstorming new ideasand pushing each other
creatively.
Cruise and Lyman also set up aflight simulator in the garage
for a bit of after-hours funbefore bedtime.

Ashley (16:02):
He's obsessed.

Remi (16:03):
The dude loves planes.
If someone likes planes, theyare really into planes.
I've never met someone who waslike kinda into planes.
You are either all in or you'renot in.
Lyman has described AmericanMade as a fun lie based on a
true story, stating we're notmaking a biopic.
Tom Cruise doesn't look likeBarry Seale, but his character

(16:25):
is inspired by the stories welearned about Barry.
Contrary to last week's filmBlow, none of the characters in
American Made are ever seenconsuming cocaine on screen,
which is rare for a movie aboutdrug trafficking.
In August 2015, tom Cruise andthe American Made team arrived
in Colombia to scout filminglocations, visiting Medellin on

(16:46):
August 20th and Santa Marta onAugust 31st.
Filming in Colombia began onAugust 26th and wrapped just a
few weeks later on September11th.
Tragically, on the final day offilming, a twin-engine Piper
Aerostar plane fatally crasheddue to weather conditions while
carrying three American pilotswho were part of the film crew.

(17:07):
Two of the pilots, carlosBurrell and Alan Perwin, lost
their lives, while the third,jimmy Lee Garland, survived but
was left paralyzed.
Notably, just ten minutesbefore the crash, tom Cruise had
flown a similar route in ahelicopter under the same
weather conditions.
Despite their contributions tothe film's aerial sequences.

(17:28):
There was no dedication ormemorial for Burl or Perwin
included in the film.

Ashley (17:33):
That's kind of fucked.

Remi (17:34):
I agree, if someone lost their life during a production,
the least you can do is put inmemory of somewhere in the
credits.
I mean, that costs nothing andit's just the right thing to do.
The incident led to a series oflawsuits, beginning with Alan
Perwin's widow and childrenfiling a wrongful death suit in
April 2016, claiming that theproduction companies had allowed

(17:57):
Carlos Burrell, who wasn'tproperly trained on Aerostar, to
fly the plane.
Carlos Burrell's family alsofiled their own lawsuit later
that same year, alleging thatBurl was pressured into piloting
the aircraft despite warningthe production of his
inexperience.
These legal battles extendedeven further when the producers
of the film filed a counterclaimagainst Perwin's company,

(18:18):
helleblak, alleging that Perwinhad provided a faulty plane and
overstated his credentials.

Ashley (18:24):
Well, here's why there was no dedication.

Remi (18:27):
Carlos Burrell's family settled their case in 2017,
while Alan Perwin's case waslater settled in 2019.
Now, on that somber note, shallwe get into the true story of
Doug Liman's American Maid.

Ashley (18:42):
Yes, as I am depressed for these poor families.

Remi (18:46):
It is a pretty tragic way to start our story, but this did
happen in pre-production so itneeded to be told.
It's important information.
But now into the film AmericanMade.

Domhnall Gleeson (18:59):
We're expanding operations.
Barry the devil, you know thedevil, you know the devil, you
don't the devil.

Remi (19:09):
You know the devil, you don't.
Our story begins in 1978 withpilot Barry Seal, played by Tom
Cruise, behind the wheel of aTWA commercial airline flight,
idling on the runway, currently10th in line for takeoff.
Isn't that the worst whenyou're just sitting on that
runway, currently 10th in linefor takeoff?
Isn't that the worst whenyou're just sitting on that
plane waiting to leave?
I hate that so much 10th inline.

Ashley (19:31):
They got a while to go.

Remi (19:33):
I would be going insane just sitting there.
Once airborne, the uneventfulflight continues on as usual,
with Barry's co-pilot catching afew Z's in the seat next to him
.
Barry, on the other hand, seemsbored with the routine, so
takes the plane off of autopilotso he can take control of the
aircraft personally, jostling afew passengers awake in their

(19:54):
seats during the process.

Ashley (19:55):
Okay, I want to point out here that TWA is the Trans
World Airlines, so this is thesame flight or the same airline
that George Jung's girlfriendwas taking all that pot in her
luggage for, so this airlinereally seems super shady.

Remi (20:13):
TWA really kicked off the cocaine boom by all of this
research we've done.
They really helped a lot of thatget into America and helped a
lot of those pilots findalternate work.
Back home, barry returns fromhis flight to his wife, lucy,
played by Sarah Wright, who isthere waiting for her man with
lovin' on her mind.
But Barry passes out cold beforeLucy can even make a move.

(20:36):
Wah wah, flying is tiring man.
We then watch as a briefmontage showcases the monotony
of Barry's career as a TWAairline pilot, flying from city
to city across America, livingout of suitcases, spending night
after night in a variety ofmundane hotels.
One evening after work at ahotel bar in one of the many

(20:59):
nameless cities Barry frequents,barry is unexpectedly
approached by a man named MontySchaefer, played by Domhnall
Gleeson, who casually mentionsthat he is aware of Barry's side
hustle of smuggling Cubancigars into America during his
weekly trips.
Beyond that, monty also seemsto know a great deal about

(21:19):
Barry's history, including thatBarry graduated first in his
class at the Civil Air Patroland that Barry was the youngest
pilot in TWA history.
It gradually begins to dawn onBarry that the man sitting in
front of him is in fact a CIAagent after Monty opines that
America needs a man like BarrySeale working for them.

Ashley (21:41):
That's what caused him to put those pieces together.
That's quite a leap.

Remi (21:46):
I agree.
I kind of thought it was weirdthat he suddenly leaped to.
This man must be from the CIAbecause he knew information
about me and said America needsme.
I don't know if I wouldimmediately make that jump.
I would think this guy was liketrying to kill me or a hitman
or something like that.
Not CIA.
Barry is then brought to anairplane hangar where Monty

(22:07):
shows Barry the spanking new CIAAerostar plane that he will be
using while under their employ.
Monty explains that Barry wouldtechnically be running a front
company called IndependentAviation Consultants while
flying covert operations for theCIA during his off hours.
Independent AviationConsultants is also CIA only.

(22:29):
Iac.
Barry would be dispatched tospecific locations, primarily in
Central America, in order forthe plane to capture aerial
photographs of hostileterritories.
All of this is, of course,extremely top secret, which
Monty makes abundantly clear toBarry before proceeding any

(22:59):
further.

South of the border, north of the equator,
let's just say enemies ofdemocracy.
Look, the real work is covert.
You understand, covert, soanyone finds out about it,
family, friends, even Lucy.
It's Lucy, right?
Yeah, that's right, that'd be aproblem.

Ashley (23:33):
Now would be a good time to point out, because I still
remember when we realized thismy mind was blown.
Dom hall gleason is brendangleason's son and brendan
gleason is mad eye moody fromharry potter yeah, this still
blows my mind that we never putthis together.

Remi (23:47):
They have the same last name, they are both from Ireland
and, yeah, they just don't lookanything alike and it never
crossed my mind once that theywere related.
But yeah, dom Hill Gleeson andBrendan Gleeson and I just need
to say Dom Hill Gleeson has kindof a nothing role in this, but
he does a pretty good job withwhat he's given, I would say.

(24:07):
After taking the CIA's planefor a single test drive, barry
agrees to Monty's proposal.
When Barry returns home to hiswife, he tells Lucy the cover
story he was given aboutstarting his own business called
the IAC that will supplylogistical support for airports

(24:27):
the IAC that will supplylogistical support for airports.
Lucy is naturally pessimisticabout Barry's career change,
fearing that they would lose anybenefits that they currently
receive from TWA, but Barryreassures his wife that she has
absolutely nothing to worryabout.
Soon after, in October of 1978,barry officially quits his job
at TWA to begin work for the CIA.

(24:47):
Now, in those days the Cold Warwas in full swing and the
Soviets were backing communistinsurgents all over Central
America.
The CIA's plan was to haveBarry's plane capture recon
photos of these insurgents incountries like Guatemala,
honduras and El Salvador, whileoften facing heavy gunfire from

(25:08):
the insurgents below in theprocess.
Needless to say, barry wasfinding his new career far more
exciting than anything he hadever experienced back at TWA,
and so far the CIA couldn't behappier with Barry's exceptional
performance.
Barry and Lucy also welcometheir second child into the
world during this time, so Barryhumbly asks Monty for a raise

(25:31):
so that he can better supporthis growing family.
Monty uncharitably dismissesthe request and assures Barry
that his family will survivewithout the additional income.
Soon Barry is promoted to bagman for the CIA, which entails
dropping off and picking uppayments for a colonel down in
Panama named Noriega who wasselling the agency's intel on

(25:53):
the communists down in CentralAmerica.
An unexpected downside to thispromotion, however, was that
Barry quickly began slippingback into a similarly tiresome
routine that he had sodesperately tried to flee from
back at TWA.
This all changes during afateful trip to Colombia in 1980
.
While stopping to refuel, barryis confronted by a pair of

(26:17):
armed men who we later learn arenone other than Pablo Escobar
and Carlos Lider, who we havelearned about previously from
the film Blow.

Ashley (26:27):
I was surprised to see Carlos Lider's name come up in
this, but it was I'll talk alittle bit later about kind of
the hierarchy of the Medellincartel and Carlos was like fifth
in command.
He was really high up there.

Remi (26:42):
I don't think it ever occurred to me that Carlos was
one of the guys that was thereon the ground level when the
Medellin cartel was firstgetting started.
He was one of the original guysand even when watching the
movie it didn't even clickbecause his name and blow was
Diego.
I don't think it registered tome that that was the same person
at first until you pointed itout and I was like, oh my god, I

(27:05):
just I couldn't believe it.
I thought that Carlos was muchlower on the totem pole than he
actually was in real life.
The two men escort Barry backto a private villa where he is
introduced to the men's businesspartner, jorge Ochoa, being
played by Alejandro Eta, who isawaiting their arrival.
These three men would later godown in history as the founding

(27:27):
members of the Medellin cartel.
Like Monty, jorge seems to knowan awful lot about Barry and
proposes another potentiallylucrative business opportunity
to the notorious pilot.
Have a seat.

Tom Cruise (27:42):
Coffee.
Mr Seale, you know my name,Charlie Gringo, who flies to
Central America every weekTaking pictures very low with
your fancy plane.
Yeah, I mean those photos.
See, I have an aviation companyhere in South America.
Yes, it's the AIC.
I see, yes, sir.

(28:05):
Or is it CIA?
What?
No, no, no, I'm just abusinessman here.
I'm a businessman Imports,exports cattle horses.

Narrator (28:24):
But now, now, God above has blessed this great
country with new riches, Mr Sealand you could help us.

Ashley (28:29):
I would be pissing my pants.

Remi (28:34):
I would be positive that these men were going to murder
me.
If I was picked up randomly ata Colombian airport by two armed
men, then brought into thisroom with this man which you
can't tell by the audio clip butthere are men with guns all
over the place I would bepositive that they were going to
kill me, especially when hementioned that he knew that I
was taking photos for the CIA.
But that is not what happens.

(28:55):
These new riches Jorge speaksof is, of course, cocaine, which
the Colombians have been havinga great deal of difficulty
smuggling into America, forcingthem to consider alternative
means to export their productinto the states.
The Colombians offer Barry agenerous compensation of 2K per
kilo, which would be 2.2 poundsfor him to fly their cocaine

(29:19):
from Medellin, colombia, toMiami, florida.
Barry is interested in theoffer but has safety concerns
regarding the Colombian's short,unpaved dirt runway, surrounded
by trees at a high altitude,that he would be commuting back
and forth from on a regularbasis.
Unfortunately for Barry, he isforced to make do with the

(29:40):
Colombian's lackluster airstripor be killed for refusing their
offer.
Barry theorizes that the reasonso many of the Colombian's
lackluster airstrip or be killedfor refusing their offer.
Barry theorizes that the reasonso many of the Colombian's
other pilots had been caught isbecause they were making their
deliveries by landing directlyin Miami.
So Barry suggests dropping theproduct off at several new
locations around Louisiana wherethe police wouldn't be looking

(30:02):
Before long.
300 pounds in bricks of cocaineare being duct-taped to life
jackets and loaded onto Barry'splane.
After a bumpy takeoff andskimming the tips of a few trees
on his way out, barrysuccessfully gets his plane up
in the air and on its way toLouisiana.
Once Barry has navigatedthrough the airspace to the

(30:22):
various drop zones, he ejectsthe cocaine out of a small hatch
located on the bottom of hisplane, releasing the drugs down
to the muddy swamp waters belowwhere the Columbians have
stationed several men awaitingits delivery.
Barry then lands his plane at alocal airport, checks in with
US Customs and casually walksaway completely scot-free.
Casually walks away completelyscot-free.

(30:46):
During Barry's next meetingwith the Columbians, they all
share a celebratory shot oftequila to commemorate Barry's
success, but the joyous occasionis cut short when the villa is
raided by the Columbian police.
This proves to be only a minorsetback, though, as the
Columbians are all soon released.
A short time later, barry, onthe other hand, has learned from
Monty that his situation is abit more serious than that of

(31:07):
his associates After it isdisclosed that the Louisiana
Police Department have beennotified of Barry's arrest and
plan on raiding Barry's home at6 am the following morning.
Now remember the insurgents thatBarry was tasked with snapping
those photos of before?
Well, as it turns out, thoseinsurgents were actually a bunch
of communists called theSandinistas, who managed to take

(31:30):
control of a little countrycalled Nicaragua, marking the
first successful revolution inCentral America.
President Ronald Reaganstrongly opposed these
Sandinistas and wanted a groupof Nicaraguan freedom fighters
called the Contras to remove theSandinistas from Nicaragua.
But Congress felt that the US'sinvolvement could potentially

(31:50):
lead to another Vietnam andoutright refused Reagan's
request to send aid to theContras.
This is where Barry Seale comesback in.
After arranging for Barry'srelease from jail, monty
suggests that Barry relocate hisfamily to Mena, arkansas,
before their home is raided at 6am.
Not wasting any time, barryhightails it back home from

(32:13):
Columbia, wakes his wife andchildren from their pleasant
slumber and franticallyinstructs his family to begin
packing up their belongings sothey can move to Mena, arkansas
before sunrise.
Up their belongings, so theycan move to Mena, arkansas,
before sunrise.
Though Lucy is perplexed by herhusband's sudden and urgent
mandate to relocate their entirefamily in the dead of night,
she nevertheless still trustsBarry and reluctantly agrees to

(32:36):
go along with his request.

Ashley (32:38):
I think at this point I'd be like I don't think you're
a plane company contractor forairports.

Remi (32:47):
This would be a we're not going anywhere until you tell me
what the fuck is going on typesituation.
You're wanting to move toArkansas in the middle of the
night.
You need to tell me what ishappening, dude.
I'm not just going to blindlygo along with this at this point
.
Are we in danger?
What's happening?
Blindly go along with this atthis point?
Are we in danger?
What's happening?

(33:07):
Once in Mina, which could bestbe described as a sleepy little
town with an exceptionallyminute population, we catch a
brief glimpse of local lawmanSheriff Downing, played by Jesse
Plemons, as Barry and hisfamily pass by the local Polk
County Sheriff's Department ontheir way into town.
I only mention this because Ithought Jesse Plemons' character
would be more of a factor goingforward, but he really isn't.

(33:29):
It's nice to see him, though.
Moments after the Seal familyhave arrived at their remote new
home, Barry is picked up byMonty and driven to a 2,000 acre
airfield which Monty says nowbelongs to Barry.
Monty then unveils Barry'slatest CIA assignment, which
will be flying crates full ofAK-47s into Nicaragua in order

(33:50):
to arm the Contra FreedomFighters to aid in their war
against the Sandinistas.

Ashley (33:56):
So Monty has zero questions about why Barry was
arrested in Colombia with abunch of cocaine smugglers.

Remi (34:16):
That's something that.
I don't understand in this filmis how aware the CIA were about
what Barry was doing with theMedellin cartel.
Because, yeah, he was arrested.
Shouldn't the CIA know that hewas doing some shady stuff?
Just from this alone?
But yeah, I guess they kept himon the payroll and kept him
flying errands for him.
Though Barry is understandablyapprehensive about this latest
task, he still agrees afterbeing presented with a duffel

(34:36):
bag filled to the brim withstacks of cash.

Ashley (34:40):
I guess this counts as the reese he was looking for.

Remi (34:43):
When Barry returns to his new home, he is confronted by
Lucy, who I just noticed, ispregnant with their third child
and is understandably perturbedby her family's unexpectedly
rapid change in accommodations.
Lucy's frustrations quicklydiminish, however, once Barry
reveals his bag full of cash andfinally confesses that he has

(35:05):
been working for the CIA.
So she did start askingquestions about what was going
on, but not until after herentire family had gotten up and
moved to a new state.

Ashley (35:14):
She probably didn't have a lot of time to do it.
I imagine he came in and waslike we gotta go, go, go, go go.

Remi (35:20):
They didn't say anything to each other during the car
ride.
I assume this car ride is acouple hours Like there was no
mention in that car.
Like honey, what is going on?
Explain?

Ashley (35:29):
this, that's true.
That's true.
That would have been an ampletime to have that conversation.

Remi (35:34):
Not long after Barry touches down in Nicaragua with a
plane full of firearms todeliver to the Contras but is
instantly swarmed by the mob offreedom fighters who come across
as an unstructured group ofill-equipped, ragtag misfits who
are all in way over their heads.

Ashley (35:52):
But at least they're not communists.

Remi (35:55):
Undeterred.
The US government continuessending Barry on regular
deliveries to the Contras, oftenincluding boxes of pornography
and liquor along with theadditional firearms.
So that's nice, A little bonus,I guess.

Ashley (36:08):
Gotta keep your troops happy.

Remi (36:09):
During one of Barry's typical trips to Nicaragua, he
is surprised to find that hisold pal, jorge, is also there in
attendance.
Jorge then brings Barry to ameeting with the leader of the
Contras, adolfo Salero.

This is Don Adolfo Calero.
He works for your government onthe revolution to bring down
the Sandinistas.
Jorge tells me you are thecrazy gringo who always delivers
.

Ronald Reagan (36:35):
We have a new business proposition to you, bar
.
You bring your American guns toColombia.
Deliver our cocaine here to theContras.
The Contras take it by fishingboats to Miami.
And everybody's happy.
It's for the war effort, MrSeale.

Remi (36:53):
Turns out that the Contras really weren't all that
interested in going to war andwould much rather make money,
just like everybody else.
Since the Medellin cartelwanted the guns that the Contras
weren't using, the two groupsworked out a little trade
agreement which would be farmore mutually beneficial to both
parties.

(37:13):
For this latest arrangement,Barry would load up the guns in
Mina, bypass any law enforcementusing CIA intel, fly to the
cartel's airstrip in Medellin,drop off the guns, reload the
plane with cocaine, then fly tothe Contra training camp in
Nicaragua.
Next, the Contras would hidethe cocaine in fishing boats to
sail up to Miami while Barry'splane is loaded up with even

(37:36):
more cocaine yet again.
Finally, after a quick stopoverin Panama to refuel under the
protection of General Noriega,Barry continues on to Louisiana
to drop the final load and headon home.

Ashley (37:49):
He is just digging himself a deeper and deeper hole
.
Now, isn't he, wouldn't your?

Remi (37:54):
anxiety levels just be through the roof like 24 hours a
day.
If you were doing shit likethis, I would not be able to
handle it.
I think my hands would neverstop shaking.
I would just constantly beafraid I was going to jail
forever or going to be murderedby the Medellin cartel.
Like in no reality does thisend well for me.
I would be thinking Soon.

(38:14):
The operation has become so bigthat Barry enlists the help of
four more pilots that heplayfully refers to as his
snowbirds to help aid in hisdeliveries.
Things continue like this forsome time until Barry learns
that the CIA will be expandingits operations by utilizing a
portion of his land for trainingpurposes.

(38:35):
Barry is also tasked withbringing the Contra's soldiers
back to America so that they canbe professionally trained to
fight by the US military.

Ashley (38:45):
America so that they can be professionally trained to
fight by the US military.
For the Iran-Contra scandal,the government was training the
Contra soldiers, but I thinkthey were doing it in Nicaragua.
I don't think they werebringing people back here.

Remi (38:56):
They weren't importing them to MENA, arkansas.
That does seem more difficultthan just sending military
people to the Contras.
Barry does as instructed andflies several members of the
Nicaraguan Freedom Fighters backto the small town of Mena,
arkansas, for further training.
An unintended consequence ofthis was that many of the

(39:17):
Contras would flee from theirtraining as soon as they had
arrived in America.
Despite all of this, even moreContras are steadily flown into
Mina as the local sheriff, jessePlemons, is paid to look the
other way by 1982,.
Business is booming and Barryhas been regularly earning a
hefty chunk of change for all ofhis efforts.

(39:38):
Because of his success, barryis even able to renovate his
modestENA home into a lavishpiglet pink colored mini mansion
surrounded by luscious greengrass, decadent water fountains
and a king-size swimming pooladorning the backyard.
Barry also opens up a few morefront corporations to launder
his income, but continues tomake money faster than he could

(40:01):
possibly launder.
What an issue.
At the time, barry had $10million stashed at MENA National
Bank, $12 million in MENA State, $15 million in MENA Trust,
another $40 million stashed inMiami, $20 million in Panama,
plus $7 million in lawn bags, $8million in suitcases, $4

(40:22):
million buried in the woodsbehind his house and 90 pounds
of gold hidden in his closet.

Ashley (40:28):
Where did he get the gold?

Remi (40:30):
They didn't really go into that I assume they were just
giving him gold as tips once ina while.
But I also want to just takethis opportunity to say how much
I love scenes in movies whereit is someone who has too much
money from an illegal enterprisethat they don't know what to do
with it, like they did it inGoodfellas, they did it last
week in Blow, they did it inBreaking Bad.
Just the whole idea of we haveso much money and nowhere to put

(40:53):
it is just such a crazy conceptand I always love those scenes
in movies.

Ashley (40:58):
Yeah, the Breaking Bad one is good when he like rents
out that warehouse.
I think first he tries to putit like underneath his house and
that gets filled, and then helike gets this warehouse and
it's just filled to the brim andhe's like, oh my god, what do
we do?

Remi (41:13):
It's just such a crazy problem to have.
We have so much money but noway to legally be able to spend
this practically.
It's just such an interestingconundrum.
Sometime later, the happyfamily are paid an unexpected
visit by Barry's dim-witted,hillbilly brother-in-law, bubba,
played by Caleb Landry Jones,who will be staying with them

(41:35):
until he can get back on hisfeet.
To help out, barry gives Bubbaa thankless job sweeping up
debris in his airstrip hangers.
But even that proves to be toochallenging for our boy Bubba.
Things only get worse fromthere when Bubba shows up at the
family's house one afternoonwith a 15-year-old girl and a
brand new car he clearlycouldn't afford.

(41:57):
When Barry confronts Bubbaabout where he had gotten the
money from, bubba is honest andadmits that he stole it from
Barry's airstrip hangar.
Barry reprimands Bubba butinevitably lets him off with
just a warning.
One evening, during a night runback to Miami with his Snowbird
crew in 1983, barry and his teamare intercepted by a DEA jet

(42:19):
for violating the air defenseidentification code and are
ordered to land immediately.
In response, barry and his teamslow their planes to a near
crawl, which is one thing thatthe highly equipped
state-of-the-art DEA jet isunable to do.
This delay eventually resultsin the DEA's jet needing to

(42:40):
refuel, giving Barry and hiscrew just the window of
opportunity needed to make theirescape.
Another problem arises when theunusual amount of money being
held at various banks in thesmall town of Mena, arkansas, is
brought to the attention of theFBI, which is something that
wouldn't have even occurred tome.
But yeah, they are just like.
Why is this small town havemillions and millions and

(43:03):
millions of dollars suddenlyappearing in their bank?
Yeah, that would be a huge redflag that I would not have even
thought about.
During another one of Barry'smany runs, barry is intercepted
by the United States BorderPatrol flying into Louisiana.
So Barry lands his plane on asparsely populated neighborhood
road to avoid being captured.
Neighborhood road to avoidbeing captured.

(43:27):
After touching down relativelysafely, barry's plane collides
with a large tree, deploying itsairbags and scattering cocaine
over everything like a glitterbomb.
Barry is miraculously unharmedduring the crash and carefully
exits the plane covered head totoe in cocaine powder, clinging
to a duffel bag full of money.
As a pair of bewilderedneighborhood children watch on
Stumbling to his feet, barryhands the confused children a

(43:49):
few wads of cash, thencommandeers the young boy's bike
to make his escape as policesirens approach in the distance.
This is a great scene, althoughI'm super pessimistic that it
actually happened.
It did not, I knew it.
It is probably one of the bestscenes in the movie, I would say
.
Barry isn't the only one facingheat from the DEA, though, as

(44:11):
the Medellin cartel are soonforced out of Colombia and into
Nicaragua, where the DEA areunable to interfere.
Barry is also informed that forhis next run he is expected to
transport 1,500 kilos of cocaine, which is the most he had ever
done in a single trip.
Back in Mina, Bubba is arrestedwith a suitcase full of cash he

(44:33):
had clearly stolen from hisbrother-in-law.
Barry instructs Bubba to keephis mouth shut while he is in
jail and let Bubba's lawyer doall of the talking for him.
This incident proves to be adistraction from Barry's latest
epic drug run, so the Mediancartel promise to handle Bubba
so that Barry can focus all ofhis efforts on the task at hand.

(44:53):
Now, concerned for hisbrother-in-law's safety, Barry
bails Bubba out of jail, driveshim out to a parked car on a
deserted road, then hands Bubbaa bag which contains a passport,
cash and a first-class one-wayticket to Bora Bora.
Devastated, Bubba exits thevehicle and shambles over to the
parked car positioned up theroad.
After cussing out Barry for histroubles, Bubba enters the car,

(45:16):
drives off, then moments laterexplodes, killing Bubba in the
process.

Ashley (45:20):
Oh no.

Remi (45:22):
The cartel knew Bubba was too much of a risk.
They knew he was going to talk.
They were not going to let himever face trial or get back in
police custody.
So it is very understandablethat that is what went down.

Ashley (45:36):
Poor Bubba.

Remi (45:38):
Back at the CIA.
Monty has been dealing with hisown issues after it is
uncovered that the CIAoperations that he had been
spearheading have primarilyproduced exceedingly less than
ideal results.

Ashley (45:52):
That's the understatement of the century.
Monty's gonna get fired afterthis.

Remi (45:56):
Well, within the past year alone, Monty's CIA operations
have transported 10,500 AK-47 tothe Contras, 5,000 of which
have miraculously found theirway into the hands of the
Medellin cartel.
To top it all off, out of the916 Contras brought into the
United States for trainingpurposes, only about half

(46:19):
returned to Nicaragua tocontinue the fight.
This utter lack of progressinevitably leads to the CIA
calling off Monty's operation,leaving Barry in quite the
precarious predicament.
After getting the bad news,Barry and his crew hastily
attempt to remove any leftovermunitions still on the property,
but are thwarted when Barry'shangar is raided by the DEA, ATF

(46:43):
, FBI and state police allsimultaneously.
Barry is then taken in to speakwith the state's attorney
general, Dana Sabota, who vowsto prosecute Barry to the
fullest extent of the law, untilshe is interrupted by an
unexpected phone call fromGovernor Bill Clinton.
As Barry waits out in thehallway, surrounded by every

(47:03):
form of law enforcementimaginable, he seems unworried
and playfully makes light of theentire situation.

Tom Cruise (47:11):
Do you do that for all of us?
Yes, sir, I would.
I'd get all y'all caddies.
Have them here this afternoon.
What are you trying to do, Seal?
Add another 20 for bribery.
Oh, no, no, no, no, I'm justoffering y'all caddies for your
troubles.
What troubles, Seal?

(47:31):
Well, bring me down here forone.
See, I'm going to walk out ofhere.
I'm going to walk out of here.
I ran a damn thing.

Ashley (47:46):
Any one of you can do about it.
I do not think I would be quiteso cavalier, especially because
that CIA mission is off.
I would be terrified that Iwould just be thrown under the
bus as a scapegoat.

Remi (48:03):
Yeah, his confidence doesn't really make sense in
this scene.
If I were him, I would beshitting bricks because the,
like you said, the CIA operationwas called off.
He doesn't have the CIAcovering his ass anymore.
So if I were him, I would bereally, really scared that I
would be going to jail forever.

Ashley (48:18):
And the whole mission was one that was done without
congressional approval, sothat's an extra reason why the
CIA would not want it to see thelight of day.

Remi (48:29):
Yeah, it was all off the books, so they would not want
this information getting outthat they had been helping Barry
at all.
But seconds later the attorneygeneral exits her office with a
look of disbelief etched acrossher face as she instructs the
agents to set Barry free.
Barry is then met outside by agroup of suited men who escort

(48:50):
Barry onto a private airplane.
Much to his surprise, Barry'sfinal destination turns out to
be the White House for animpromptu meeting with the DEA
and an American colonel namedOliver North.

Ashley (49:04):
That is the guy who was in charge of Iran-Contra.

Remi (49:08):
Yes, he is the guy who took the fall for it, at least
During the meeting.
North and the DEA instructBarry to continue running drugs
for the Median cartel, only thistime with the White House
itself backing him up to gainfurther intel.
In 1984, barry is given a newextra-large military plane by

(49:28):
the US government, equipped withover 50 cameras, to carry out
his latest run into Nicaragua.
Though Barry's mission issuccessful, the photos taken at
the scene are later prominentlyfeatured during a presidential
address from Ronald Reagan, withBarry's face fully visible,
spelling out bad news for Barryand his bros.

(49:48):
To make matters worse, the fedsconduct another raid on Barry's
property, uncovering andconfiscating every last bit of
Barry's hidden millions.
Lucy and the kids move to BatonRouge, louisiana, while Barry
stays in Arkansas and issentenced to a staggering 1,000
hours of community service forhis menagerie of federal crimes.

(50:12):
Free yet again, barry begins aroutine of staying in a
different motel every night, butmust still return every evening
to check in at the sameSalvation Army halfway house for
120 days in a row under judge'sorders.
Unable to flee from the cartel,barry is eventually murdered in

(50:33):
his vehicle by a Colombianhitman armed with a machine gun.
We learn before the closingcredits that Lucy and the kids
settled back in Louisiana andMonty Schaefer got a promotion.
All but one of Barry'sSnowbirds pilots were never seen
or heard from again.
The CIA continued to useBarry's planes to arm the
Contras until one was shot downin Nicaragua.

(50:55):
The ensuing scandal was knownas the Iran-Contra affair, and
here's a quick rundown of theentire scandal, brought to you
through song by Stan Smith fromAmerican Dad.

Stan Smith (51:07):
You see, North secretly sold missiles to a
harmless country called Iran.
That would always be a gratefulally.
Then he gave the profits to theContras Genius.
But the sales were uncovered bythe press.
Reagan and North began tostress Because what they did was

(51:29):
technically high treason.
But it was totally justified.

Remi (51:35):
And that was Doug Liman's American Made.
What do you think, Ashley?

Ashley (51:55):
Well, spoiler alert there are a lot of changes and
discrepancies.
I think that his assertion atthe beginning that it is a story
based on the rumors that weretold about Barry Seale, rather
than the accuracy of BarrySeale's life, is a very true
statement about this film.

Remi (52:06):
So this is more of a tall tale version of Barry Seals'
Escapades, in your opinion.

Ashley (52:12):
Yes, as a little teaser, he never worked for the CIA.

Remi (52:16):
Really, that's a very big change, then, right off the bat.
Okay, well, I'm anxious tolearn how much of this was not
true and if any of it wasactually true.

Ashley (52:26):
Before we get into the post-production stuff which I
know you said there isn't a tonabout.
So what did you think about themovie?

Remi (52:34):
I enjoyed the movie for, like a fun action comedy that it
was, it never once struck methat what I was watching was
based on a true story and thatall of this stuff was factually
accurate.
The whole time I was watchingthis movie, I thought of it as a
Tom Cruise movie.
I did not think of it as a truecrime story.
I did not think of it as abiopic.

(52:55):
I thought of it as a movie TomCruise wanted to do so he could
learn how to fly some new planesand spend some time up in the
air and getting paid for it.
But I did like the movie.
I just know that I am going tobe left wanting a version that
was more faithful after I hearthe facts.

Ashley (53:14):
And I will say, even though Tom Cruise doesn't look
like Barry Seale I mean youalready said the weight
difference is a huge one I thinkhow he portrayed his
personality actually fit prettywell.
Like everyone said, barry waslike very charismatic and
likable and just was superfriendly to everyone he met, and
in the clips that's how he isportrayed.

Remi (53:37):
He definitely comes across as an extremely likable guy in
the film.

Ashley (53:42):
And it's funny.
There's another movie aboutBarry Seale which we didn't
watch.
I had not heard about it untilthis.
It's called Double Crossed withDennis Hopper from 1991.
It's actually an HBO movie, butfrom the little snippet I read
it's also not a very accurateportrayal of his life.
He's really painted as acharacter who's like maligned by

(54:04):
the government and targeted forlittle to no reason, which also
is not the case.

Remi (54:10):
I did almost watch that one when I stumbled across it
just to compare the two, but allthe reviews were very, very bad
and, again, like you said, it'snot very accurate either.
So I chose to not watch thatone because I probably would
have had to purchase it off ofeBay, like I did.
The Positively adventures ofthe alleged Texas cheerleader

(54:31):
murdering mom.

Ashley (54:33):
Maybe one day we'll do a little bonus episode where
we'll both kind of watch it andcompare.

Remi (54:39):
I would be curious.
I do like Dennis Hopper a lotand I think that Dennis Hopper
probably makes more sense asBarry Seal than Tom Cruise does.
But let's get into the littlebit of information I have about
the release of this film.
This is probably one of theshortest sections of the release
that I've ever done.
American Made currently has anapproval rating of 85% on Rotten

(55:03):
Tomatoes, with a criticalconsensus that reads.
American Made's fast and looseattitude, with its real-life
story, mirrors the cavalier anddelightfully watchable energy
Tom Cruise gives off in theleading role.

Ashley (55:18):
That is such a high rating.

Remi (55:21):
Agreed.
I look at this and like thismovie got a higher rating than
Blow.
Come on.
American Maid was the second oftwo Universal Pictures films
starring Tom Cruise releasedthat year, with the first being
the Mummy, which we have alreadymentioned was not very good,
but also has a scene where he'sin a plane and flying around.
American Made ended up grossing$51.3 million in the United

(55:45):
States and Canada and another$83.6 million in other
territories, for a worldwidetotal of $134.9 million against
a production budget of $50million.
So, a decently successful filmthat kind of came and went and
no one talks about anymore andthere's no other information
about after it came out.
Like it seems like this moviecame out and everyone involved

(56:08):
just moved on right away andnever really talked about it
again.
I was surprised at how littlethere was after this film came
out.

Ashley (56:16):
I thought for sure it was going to cost more to make
than it made, just because ofwhat you said about all the
planes and how Tom Cruise waslike purposefully crashing some,
and just his salary alone.
I mean, he's one of the topearning actors ever, at least in
the past couple decades.

Remi (56:35):
That production budget is surprisingly low, I would say.
Anytime I hear a Tom Cruisemovie is coming out, I
automatically assume it costs$100 million, because it just
doesn't seem like he makesmodestly budgeted movies.
But $50 million for this isactually not bad at all, and if
they had spent $100 million onit they would not have turned a

(56:56):
profit in the end.
So good on Lyman for keepingthe production budget down on
this one.
But that was Doug Lyman'sAmerican Made a most likely
fabricated story about areal-life person starring one of
America's most famouscelebrities.
But I'm much more interestednow to find out the truth about

(57:17):
this man and his life and findout that story as opposed to the
Tom Crucified version.
So will you lay that on me,miss Ashley?

Ashley (57:26):
Yeah, get ready to have your mind blown.
Alder Berryman Seal was born inBaton Rouge on July 16th 1939.

(57:53):
His early love of flyingprompted him to pursue lessons
shortly after he started highschool.
Although his mother begged theinstructor not to teach him to
fly because of the potentialdangers involved, the teacher
was so impressed by the teen'snatural talent that he allowed
Seal to fly solo after onlyeight hours of instruction.

Remi (58:11):
talent that he allowed Seal to fly solo after only
eight hours of instruction.
That seems like a very, very,very short amount of time to
allow someone to fly an airplanealone for the first time.

Ashley (58:19):
Especially a 15-year-old kid.

Remi (58:21):
Yeah, I'm questioning this dude's judgment, this teacher.

Ashley (58:25):
In his free time, seal hung around the Baton Rouge
airport talking to pilots inhopes of bumming a ride.
In the Baton Rouge airporttalking to pilots in hopes of
bumming a ride.
His dedication paid off, as hebecame a fully licensed pilot by
the time he was 16 years old.

Remi (58:37):
Is that even allowed today ?
I can't imagine a 16 year oldpiloting my plane.
I would kind of freak the fuckout if they introduced my pilot
and I saw a 16 year old standingthere.

Ashley (58:48):
To fly airplanes where you actually have like
passengers, you have to get acommercial pilot license, so
it's a little different.
These were just kind of likelittle pedal pusher planes.

Remi (58:58):
Okay, okay, my plane.
Ignorance is shining through.

Ashley (59:02):
He graduated from Baton Rouge High School in 1957 and
enrolled at Louisiana StateUniversity for a year.
His withdrawal may or may nothave been related to him
crashing a plane he rented froma chemistry professor.
Although no passengers wereinjured, seale spent a week in
the hospital, had his jaw wiredshut for a month and was fitted

(59:22):
with a metal plate and fivefalse teeth.
A year later his father filed acivil suit against the
professor and rental company,seeking medical damages.
The lawsuit alleged the crashwas the result of engine failure
caused by the wrong type offuel being used.
The suit was dismissed in April1960 after a witness said Seal
instructed him to lie about thefuel issue.

(59:43):
Seal enlisted in the LouisianaNational Guard in August 1961.
He was trained in radiooperating and parachute jumping
and honorably discharged in July1967.
There have been some myths aboutSeale's military career.
For example, he didn't receivespecial forces qualifications,
nor was he a Green Beretstationed in Vietnam.

(01:00:06):
I'm surprised none of thesewere incorporated into American
Made.
After his military discharge,seale joined Transworld Airlines
as a flight engineer andrapidly worked his way up to a
command pilot.
He was one of the youngestpilots for the company, assigned
to a Boeing 707 and beganflying a regular European route.
By all accounts, he was likable, talkative, charismatic and an

(01:00:29):
incredibly skilled pilot one ofthe best most had ever seen.
He was also a bit of anentrepreneur.
Over the years he acquired aTexaco gas station, opened two
flying companies and started tworental sign businesses, but
most of these venturesultimately failed.
Some might also say he was aladies' man.
He married his first wife,barbara Bottoms, in March 1963.

(01:00:51):
Ladies man, he married hisfirst wife, barbara Bottoms, in
March 1963.

Remi (01:00:55):
They had two children together before they divorced in
1971, allegedly because ofdomestic violence, and I am
throwing this out there becauseI learned this in production.
Lucy, his wife in the filmobviously is not based on a
specific wife because he hadthree, but I'm assuming it's an
amalgamation of all of them putinto one character.

Ashley (01:01:13):
That makes sense for something I'll point out later.
Less than a month after thedivorce was finalized, he
married Linda Ross.
This marriage ended about ayear later after she claimed
abandonment.
His third marriage was toDeborah Dubois in November 1974.
They had three children andwere together at the time of his
death in 1986.

(01:01:33):
This is who it sounds like shewas primarily based on.

Remi (01:01:37):
So Barry had five kids total.

Ashley (01:01:39):
He actually had six.
He had another with a childfrom a relationship between
marriages.

Remi (01:01:44):
Wow, okay.

Ashley (01:01:45):
Seal landed himself on the government's radar after he
and seven others were arrestedby US Customs for their
involvement in a plot to smuggleover seven tons of weapons and
explosives to Mexico, orpossibly Cuba, on July 1, 1972.
He was still working as a TWApilot but falsely took medical

(01:02:05):
leave to participate in thescheme.
Although the case was dismisseda few years later, the arrest
did result in him losing his job.
Seal began smuggling marijuanainto the States in early 1976.
He flew his plane into a smallairport near Baton Rouge where
it was serviced by an airportemployee.
During a trip to Honduras inDecember 1976, he met and

(01:02:27):
befriended air trafficcontroller Joe Cooper.
With Cooper's help, heincorporated cocaine and other
drugs into a smuggling operationin 1978.

Remi (01:02:37):
This is a similar path as George Jung so far, starting
with weed and then moving up tococaine.

Ashley (01:02:44):
Marijuana, that gateway drug.

Remi (01:02:46):
Especially if you are a drug smuggler apparently.

Ashley (01:02:49):
The drugs were picked up in Colombia, flown to Honduras
for refueling, transported toSeal's private landing strip in
Baton Rouge and handed off fortransportation to Florida.
In December 1979, he wasarrested at the Honduras airport
.
After the authorities weretipped off to the operation, A
rifle was the only item ofconsequence found on board, but

(01:03:11):
it was enough to trigger anarrest.
Like George Jung, Seal had aknack for recruiting people in
jail or while traveling to joinhis enterprise.
While in prison in Honduras, hemet Emil Camp, a pilot from
Louisiana who was arrested inDecember 1977 for cocaine
smuggling.
Once Seal was released fromprison in June 1980, after
allegedly bribing the judge,Camp became the co-pilot for

(01:03:31):
most of Seal's future smuggling.
Once Seal was released fromprison in June 1980, after
allegedly bribing the judge,Camp became the co-pilot for
most of Seal's future smugglingtrips.
Back home in Baton Rouge, Sealbegan expanding his fleet,
paying cash for his newlyacquired planes and hangars.
His planes were always intip-top shape and equipped with
state-of-the-art electrical andnavigation devices.
With Camp as co-pilot, Sealrecruited and trained his former

(01:03:53):
brother-in-law, William Bottoms, to be his main pilot.
So this is obviously supposedto be Bubba.

Remi (01:04:00):
I kind of wish they had kept the name Bill Bottoms.

Ashley (01:04:03):
Bottoms was a former US Navy mission and plane commander
and flew all the smugglingoperations about 25, for Seal,
starting in the summer of 1980.

Remi (01:04:13):
So Bill, as I'm going to call him, actually could fly a
plane.
He could do more than justsweep up a hangar.

Ashley (01:04:19):
Yeah, he flew for the US Navy.
He was also a very skilledpilot.
He was not a bozo With Will andEmil up in the air.
This left time for Seal to setup the meticulously planned
flights, oversee the recovery ofthe drugs and arrange transport
to Florida.
He kept in constant contactwith his pilots via a private
shortwave radio station nearBaton Rouge.

(01:04:40):
He, or an assistant, monitoredthe flights, used numeric code
to communicate and alerted themif they were being tailed or
surveilled.
To further avoid detection, hispilots fled
lower-than-government aircraftwhile also plotting out the
routes most commonly taken byDEA and US Customs to avoid them
in the air.
This is also a lot like whatGeorge Chung did.

(01:05:01):
The loads were then tossed outof the plane into predetermined
locations in Louisiana, mostoften swampy areas between Baton
Rouge and Lafayette.
See would then have anotherpilot fly a helicopter to
recover the load and take it tosecure locations where it was
transferred to cars for trips toFlorida.
Seal's operation took off afterhe became an employee of the

(01:05:23):
Medellin cartel in 1981.
By 1982, the cartel was led byFabio Ochoa and his son Jorge.
The hierarchy was this theOchoas managed transportation,
pablo Escobar was in charge ofproduction and Carlos Sleater
controlled distribution into thestates.
There are two main origintheories for the cartel.

(01:05:44):
Some argue it was developed inNovember 1981, after Ochoa's
daughter was kidnapped forransom by a revolutionary group
called M19.
Ochoa reportedly organized themurder of dozens of M19 members
before his daughter was releasedin February 1982.
A second prevailing theory isJorge Ochoa formed an
organization of 225 businessmenwhose purpose was to unite and

(01:06:09):
make clear to guerrilla groupsthat the kidnapping of wealthy
Colombians would not betolerated.
Regardless of how the Medellincartel came to be, it was highly
specialized and organized by1982.
Shortly after joining forceswith them, 42-year-old Seale was
transporting on average 300kilos and taking home as much as

(01:06:30):
a half a million dollars perflight.
In the middle of 1982, sealemoved his flight operations to
Mena, arkansas.
As the frequency of flights andnumber of planes started to
attract the attention of theLouisiana State Police and
federal investigators, helearned he was being watched.
After an agent asked him towork undercover on sting
operations, seal declined andwas told he would have

(01:06:52):
detectives on him around theclock until he slipped up enough
to get arrested.
Once in MENA, seal got to workbuilding an airplane hangar on
property owned by Fred Hampton,owner of a company called Rich
Mountain Aviation.
In later years, agents wereconvinced Hampton was
responsible for installingillegal fuel tanks, modifying

(01:07:13):
the cargo hatches of Seal'splanes and changing registration
numbers.
However, since Fred was loyalto Seal and vice versa, they
were never able to obtain enoughinformation to formally charge
him with any wrongdoing.
The Mina hangar was where Sealstored the planes after drug
drops, typically under largetarps to conceal the elaborate

(01:07:34):
avionics in the cockpit.
He also avoided keepinganything in the planes or hangar
that could potentiallyincriminate him, although he
denied ever using MENA foranything other than a storage
space for his planes.
Results of an extensive jointinvestigation by the FBI,
arkansas State Police and IRSrevealed in 2020 that the MENA

(01:07:55):
airport was used for smugglingactivity as early as late 1980
up until March 1984.
Given all the attention Sealreceived to date, it wasn't long
before the FBI noticed he setup shop in MENA and started
surveilling the activity aroundhis hangar.
Noticed he set up shop in Minaand started surveilling the
activity around his hangar.

(01:08:18):
The increased scrutiny wasdirectly tied to the war Ronald
Reagan declared on drugs inearly 1982, which resulted in
the creation of organized crimedrug task forces across key
regions of the United States,including Baton Rouge.
During the first task meetingwith DEA agents assigned to
Louisiana, seal was unanimouslynominated as a target, as the
DEA had informant reportsconfirming he was a drug

(01:08:39):
smuggler.
While Seal knew he was beinginvestigated by authorities in
Louisiana and MENA, he wasunaware he was also part of an
undercover DEA sting operationcalled Operation Screamer, named
after the screamer nightbird ofSouth America and the loud
noises from planes taking offfrom Florida at all hours of the
day.
He had been a target since aninformant introduced him to a

(01:09:03):
Miami DEA agent in April 1981.
Over the next several monthsthey negotiated a deal for Seal
to move 1,200 pounds ofcounterfeit chalk Quaalude
tablets.
In March 1983, he and over 80other pilots were indicted on
conspiracy and distributioncharges in Florida.

(01:09:24):
Seal actually had two separatecases and pay close attention
here because this is going toget pretty confusing, but it's
really important to fullyunderstand everything that
transpires here on out.
In case number one, which I'mgoing to refer to these as case
number one and two from here onout In case number one, seale
was actually the only defendantand he was charged with two

(01:09:47):
counts of possession andconspiracy to distribute
quaaludes.
In case number two, there weremultiple co-defendants, all
charged with additionalpossession with intent to
distribute charges, in additionto one count of using a phone in
the commission of a felony.
So the biggest difference is inthe first case he was charged

(01:10:07):
alone and in the second it was abunch of people, including Seal
.
And so because they're twoseparate cases, they're going to
be two separate trials, twoseparate sentencing hearings,
two separate sentences, butthey're all from this same
Operation Screamer in Florida.
Seal went into hiding forseveral weeks after he was
indicted on those two Floridacases, but he surrendered to

(01:10:28):
federal authorities in FortLauderdale on April 26, 1983 and
was released on a $1.25 millionbond.
Shortly after his courtappearance, he and his attorney
met with a federal prosecutorand shared a little bit about
his involvement with the Ochoafamily, even offering to work
undercover in exchange for afavorable plea deal.

(01:10:51):
After this offer was rejected,seale returned to Baton Rouge
and picked up right where heleft off, despite these pending
legal cases and knowing severalother agencies were itching at
the bit to catch him in the act.
So why was Seale so invested incontinuing his illegal
activities?
Well, for the excitement, ofcourse.

Barry Seal (01:11:11):
The cost of living an exciting life is high.
You can't sit in Baton Rougeand go to work from nine to five
on Monday through Friday and goto the LSU football games on
Saturday night and church onSunday morning and have an
exciting life on Saturday nightand church on Sunday morning and

(01:11:32):
have an exciting life.
That may be exciting to 99% ofthe population, but to me it's
not, and the exciting thing inlife to me is to get into a
life-threatening situation.
Now that's excitement.

Remi (01:11:44):
Maybe he should try skydiving or something.

Ashley (01:11:55):
Barry Seale and George Young have a lot in common.
They are men that like takingrisks and strive and search for
excitement at all costs.

Remi (01:11:59):
They thrive off of it, it seems.

Ashley (01:12:02):
As the Baton Rouge task force concentrated their efforts
on Seal, they decided to try tonab his ground crew and pilots
during a delivery.
The problem was they didn'tknow when or where one of these
would take place.
What they did know is that Sealplanned the deliveries and
flights over public payphones.
Through prior surveillance,they observed Seal using

(01:12:25):
payphones all across Baton Rouge, sometimes as many as five
different ones within an hour.
He always carried a briefcasefull of quarter rolls and as
soon as he got a page on hisbeeper, he headed over to
whatever payphone was closest tohim.

Remi (01:12:40):
It does seem like in movies, especially ones that
take place in the 70s and 80s,all illegal business is done
over payphones.
I'm surprised.
It seems like payphones wouldbe really easy to tap into.

Ashley (01:12:54):
So it's actually harder to get permission to get a
wiretap on a payphone, becauseyou have to figure out one what
payphone to use, and you canonly use wiretaps for specific
conversations with certaintargets and only about whatever
you're trying to get informationabout.

Remi (01:13:16):
So the fact that it was a public phone and could
potentially be recording randompeople's conversations, that
would be a no-no.

Ashley (01:13:20):
That's something they had to deal with later, once
they did get these wiretaps.

Remi (01:13:24):
That makes a lot of sense.

Ashley (01:13:26):
The tale of Seal was kicked into high gear in May
1983, as agents needed to figureout which phones he used most
often to secure permission forwiretaps.
They couldn't just put wiretapson every single payphone in
Baton Rouge and remember, thisis like the time before cell
phones, so payphones wereeverywhere.

Remi (01:13:46):
And pretty popular.

Ashley (01:13:48):
From then on, operation Coin Roll was in full force.
Three to four agents wereassigned to watch Seal around
the clock, something he caughtonto very quickly.
For example, on the very firstday of this, he led his tail to
a church driveway that ended ina cul-de-sac, blocked the exit
with his Cadillac, got out ofhis car to stare down the agents

(01:14:11):
and gave them a disapprovingfinger wave and head shake
before speeding off.
Blocked the exit with hisCadillac, got out of his car to
stare down the agents and gavethem a disapproving finger wave
and head shake before speedingoff.

Remi (01:14:17):
I am shocked that this was not included in the film.
That's pretty badass.

Ashley (01:14:21):
I must say All of the stuff he does to his tail is
just hilarious.

Remi (01:14:25):
Just waving the finger like uh-uh-uh, naughty, naughty.

Ashley (01:14:33):
As the months pass he became increasingly paranoid of
anyone he didn't recognize.
He drove erratically, oftenstopping suddenly to get out of
his car and stare down anyone hethought had been following him
for too long.
At home he often drove his golfcar up and down his dead end
street to find out who wasmonitoring him.
A lot of times too, when he wasleaving restaurants for dinner

(01:14:54):
or whatever he would like, spotwho was following him and he
would just walk up to the car,knock on the window and wave
goodbye to them.
In June 1983, agents started tosuspect Seal was monitoring
their secure radio channel.
To test this theory, a falsebroadcast message ordered all
agents to a nearby Holiday Innfor an emergency meeting.

(01:15:14):
Their suspicions were confirmedwhen Seal immediately jumped in
his car and sped to the hotel,no doubt trying to get a glimpse
of everyone who was followinghim.
With their theory confirmed,another broadcast instructed a
pilot to discontinue overheadobservation of his home.
Seal responded by standing inhis driveway, waving up the
plane with what looked like alarge white bath towel.

(01:15:36):
Although their cover was blownfrom the get-go, a pattern of
telephone use did emerge byOctober 1983.
Over time they learned Seal hada fondness for specific
payphones located within a shortdistance from his residence.
All of them were marked without-of-service signs that he put
on them to make sure that theywere free whenever he needed

(01:15:57):
them.

Remi (01:15:58):
What a shocker.
He's using the phones closestto his residence.

Ashley (01:16:02):
From October 1983 to January 1984, 11 payphones were
tapped but no useful informationmaterialized.
Seale's first trial forOperation Screamer so this is
case number one where he was thesole defendant started on
February 14, 1984.
He was convicted on March 17,with sentencing being set for

(01:16:24):
the end of May.
Knowing he was facing up to 10years in prison, he quickly
contacted the DEA to strike adeal to avoid prison time.
Unlike the prosecutor he triedto work with previously, the DEA
recognized Seal's value.
A few weeks later he signed acooperation letter agreeing to
be an informant.
Shortly after Seal pled guiltyto Florida case number two, the

(01:16:48):
one with several co-defendants,the judge was informed of the
cooperation agreement, so it wasdecided his sentencing would be
put on hold and depend on hisperformance as a confidential
informant.
Despite him now being a keycooperating witness for the DEA
agents in Miami, he remainedunder active investigation in

(01:17:08):
Louisiana and Arkansas, whichhighlights the lack of
coordination between thesedifferent federal agencies.
No one in Louisiana was informedabout the scope of Seale's DEA
involvement or the importance ofhis potential testimony.
Rather, they viewed him as arecently convicted felon who was
still actively involved incocaine smuggling.

(01:17:29):
And when I say activelyinvolved in cocaine smuggling.
I think I say actively involvedin cocaine smuggling.
I think he stopped doing it forthe cartel because he was now
working with the DEA.
But what the agents in Arkansasand Louisiana saw was that he
was still flying planes out ofthe country, so they assumed he
was bringing coke back.
In the months to follow, sealeworked closely with DEA agents

(01:17:51):
in Florida.
He mapped out meeting points,went over favored flight plans
and disclosed secret codes usedby smugglers.
He also helped organize severalcovert missions, with the first
occurring on April 8, 1984.
Until now Seale had anassociate handle all the direct
communication with the cartel.

(01:18:11):
When he did interact with theColumbians, he used an alias of
Ellis McKenzie, someone heworked with previously.
Otherwise the Columbians reallyonly knew him as El Gordo
Spanish for the fat one.

Remi (01:18:26):
Not the gringo who delivers.

Ashley (01:18:28):
Not the crazy gringo or whatever it was.
I'm assuming they changed that,because it would have been
really weird to call Tom Cruisethe fat one.

Remi (01:18:36):
But he gained all that weight for the role.

Ashley (01:18:40):
For this first meeting, Seal flew to Colombia to meet
with Escobar and three Ochoabrothers to discuss plans to
transport 1,500 pounds ofcocaine.
This is when the first hint ofthe cartel's connection to the
Nicaraguan government wasuncovered.
During this initial meeting,Jorge Ochoa told Seal about a
landing strip he acquired,claiming the Sandinista

(01:19:02):
government agreed to build alarger hangar and allow the
strip to be used forinternational drug shipments For
the next month.
Seale frequently spoke to hisColombian contacts and an aide
to the Nicaraguan minister toiron out the details.
However, plans for the flightwere disrupted on May 23rd by
his sentencing hearing forFlorida case number one, so

(01:19:25):
Florida case number two.
That sentencing was postponed,but since the first trial
happened first, they had set thesentencing for this April 23rd
and never changed it.
Because no one from the DEA orthe attorney's office bothered
to tell the judge about Seal'scooperation, he ended up being
sentenced to 10 years in prisonand was immediately taken into

(01:19:47):
custody.
His attorney filed an emergencymotion, which the judge granted
and heard in a closed hearing.
After being told about Seal'sDEA involvement and cooperation
agreement, the judge agreed tolet Seal be released on bond
until his duties were completed.
So he can keep on keeping on,but there is still this 10-year

(01:20:07):
prison sentence hanging abovehis head.

Remi (01:20:09):
It's like a delay in his sentence.

Ashley (01:20:13):
A delay of the start date.
Yeah, a lot of federal courtswill do this if there's some
sort of usually if it's likewhite-collar crimes, things like
that, where the person isn'tseen as like a danger.
There's like a couple casesthat come to mind, like the
Theranos chick.
Elizabeth Holmes is that hername?

Remi (01:20:32):
Yes, that's her.

Ashley (01:20:33):
She got a delay because I think she was pregnant or
something, so she didn't have tostart A lot of times too.
If a couple are sentencedtogether and they have kids in
federal court, if it'swhite-collar, nonviolent crimes,
they will let one parent servetime first and then the next
parent serve time second, so thekids don't get put into like
foster care or something likethat.

Remi (01:20:54):
Oh, actually that's pretty nice.

Ashley (01:20:57):
Five days later, co landed at a remote strip in the
Colombian jungle to pick up the1,500 pounds of cocaine.
He was met by our good oldfriend Carlos Leder, who let him
know he would actually betransporting over twice that
amount, causing the plane to begrossly overweight.

Remi (01:21:14):
I am so surprised that this guy never ran into George
Jung at any point.
It seems like they would havecrossed paths at some point, but
no.

Ashley (01:21:24):
They probably had.
I'm assuming the Median Corpshad even more pilots than this,
so they were probably justmeeting with new people every
single day.
Although Seald didn't think hewould be able to take off,
Carlos insisted he must.
In the end Leader stoodcorrected.
Seald's plane crashed and wascompletely demolished, but

(01:21:44):
thankfully there were no seriousinjuries.
The next transportation attemptoccurred on June 4th.
Seale's plane was loaded with660 kilos of cocaine and stopped
to refuel in Nicaragua.
Shortly after takeoff, theNicaraguan military fired at the
plane, forcing an emergencylanding their takeoff.
The Nicaraguan military firedat the plane, forcing an
emergency landing.
Seale spent a few nights injail until the Nicaraguan

(01:22:06):
government could arrange hisrelease.
He then flew back to the Statesin a plane owned by Escobar.
With instructions to find asuitable mode of transportation,
Seale settled on a C-123military transport plane he
found for sale in Trade-A-Planemagazine.
It's like a big-ass militarycargo plane.
A few days before takeoff, theCIA installed two hidden cameras

(01:22:31):
in the cargo.
This was the only confirmedinteraction between Steele and
the CIA, but more on that a bitlater.
These cameras capturedphotographs of several men,
including Escobar and theNicaraguan minister's aide,
loading 1,500 pounds of cocaineinto the plane on June 25, 1984.

(01:22:51):
Seal landed at an Air Force basewhere the drugs were
transferred into a Winnebagocamper and turned over to his
Colombian contact.
Since the DEA couldn't allowthe drugs to be distributed or
risk blowing Sealals' cover byarresting the driver, they
forced an accident and allowedthe man to escape.
However, he was apprehended bylocal police who were,
unsurprisingly, completelyunaware of the DEA's plan.

(01:23:14):
The circumstances of this man'sarrest and seizure of the drugs
caused several high-rankingcartel members to raise their
eyebrows.
To make matters worse, withindays of his return, Seale's
cover was officially blown whenRonald Reagan gave a televised
speech informing the people ofthe US that the government had

(01:23:34):
evidence that the Nicaraguangovernment was involved in drug
smuggling.
Although Seale was not publiclynamed, it would not have been
difficult for the cartel toconnect the dots.
On national television, thepresident showed photographs of
Escobar and the minister's aideloading the cocaine onto that
plane and mentioned that theywere obtained by an undercover

(01:23:55):
DEA operation, while alsoappealing for financial aid to
expand investigative efforts.

Ronald Reagan (01:24:02):
The Sandinistas have even involved themselves in
the international drug trade.
I know every American parentconcerned about the drug problem
will be outraged to learn thattop Nicaraguan government
officials are deeply involved indrug trafficking.
This picture secretly taken ata military airfield outside
Managua.
Picture secretly taken at amilitary airfield outside

(01:24:26):
Managua shows Federico Vaughn, atop aide to one of the nine
commandantes who rule Nicaragua,loading an aircraft with
illegal narcotics bound for theUnited States.
No, there seems to be no crimeto which the Sandinistas will
not stoop.
This is an outlaw regime.

Ashley (01:24:41):
So really quick clarification.
I think I might have misspoke.
I think this speech that Reagangave was shortly after Seale's
death, but I think kind of thesame message was given by, like,
a military person.
So, regardless of whether itwas Reagan or someone from the
military, these photos wereshown to the public and it was
announced that they hadinformation about connection

(01:25:03):
between the Nicaraguangovernment and the cartel that
they got from an undercover DEAoperation.
So they fucked Seal.

Remi (01:25:10):
Even though his face was not in those photographs, in the
video you just showed me.
Yeah, this would be likesigning his death certificate,
because who else would it be?
You would know who was therethat day.

Ashley (01:25:22):
If you were the colombians, you'd be like that
was tuesday, that was, barry wasthere well, at this point they
would have known him as ellismckenzie or el gordo, but they
do find out his name later,which isn't the government's
fault this time yeah, they wouldbe saying the fat one, that was
the fat one so he's kind ofprotected because they don't

(01:25:43):
know his true name.
but they know what he looks likeand they know where he lives.
Like they know he's based inBaton Rouge, so he wouldn't have
been that hard to track down,despite his cover being somewhat
blown.
Seale was again sent toNicaragua on July 7th 1984 to
deliver $1.5 million to PabloEscobar.
He was sent back after this,seale said he was willing to go,

(01:26:05):
so the DEA let him.

Remi (01:26:07):
He is an adrenaline junkie , I'll give him that.

Ashley (01:26:10):
The original plan was to arrange for another shipment,
but either the DEA or Escobarcalled it off and I've seen it
reported both ways.
But I tend to think Escobar isthe one who put a hold on the
deal due to the cartel'ssuspicion that Seal was
compromised.

Remi (01:26:27):
In the film.
It does show that Pablo isbecoming increasingly more
suspicious of Barry as the filmprogresses.

Ashley (01:26:35):
A more detailed account of that TV broadcast was
published in the WashingtonTimes on July 17th 1984.
So this is what like 10 or sodays after he met with Escobar,
and this publication wouldofficially mark Seals' end as a
cartel cocaine smuggler andundercover DEA informant.
Since the DEA had a heads upabout the article, they were

(01:26:58):
able to arrest several cartelemployees in Miami and issued
indictments against severalhigh-up leaders, including Jorge
Ochoa and Pablo Escobar.
In the indictment, thegovernment alleged that
Escobar's and Ochoa's controlled75% of cocaine being trafficked
into the US.

Remi (01:27:16):
I honestly thought it would be more.

Ashley (01:27:18):
Despite Seale's cover being blown, he still wanted to
work with the DEA.
Since he obviously couldn'tphysically participate, he was
placed in witness protection andtold agents about his
brother-in-law, Bill Bottoms.
In exchange for hisparticipation in the operation,
Bottoms was given full immunityagainst prosecution.
The final sting involvedcoordination of a cocaine

(01:27:39):
shipment from Bolivia to Vegasin January 1985.
And Bottoms continued to workas an undercover informant for
the DEA and FBI until heresigned in 1990.

Remi (01:27:50):
Bottoms was done dirty on the film man.
They do not portray him well atall.

Ashley (01:27:56):
He is very, very loyal to Seal.
He comes up again later and,yeah, he was a very smart man
and he did not get exploded.

Remi (01:28:05):
In the film.
He has basically no redeemingqualities, is a complete idiot
and possible pedophile as well,and definitely does not know how
to fly a plane.

Ashley (01:28:23):
DEA had increased over time, so too did his resentment
against the agents investigatinghim in Louisiana, who were
close to securing an indictmenton charges of possession with
intent to distribute cocaine.
Still unaware of the scope ofhis role with the DEA, including
how he was now a key witness inthe upcoming prosecution of
dozens of high-level cocainesmugglers in Florida and Vegas,
lawyers and agents in BatonRouge made plans to use the

(01:28:44):
Comprehensive Drug AbusePrevention and Control Act,
signed into law by Richard Nixonin 1970, to prosecute Seale.
This act made it possible forthe government to seek a prison
sentence of 20 years to life foranyone who was charged in three
drug cases, by arguing thatthey participated in continuing
a criminal enterprise.

(01:29:04):
Since Seale had those recentguilty convictions in those two
Florida cases, a similar outcomefor a Baton Rouge indictment
would be the third they needed.
Terrified of prison anddesperate to prevent new charges
being filed against him, Sealeand his lawyers launched a
counterattack.
First, his lawyers filedmotions to try to prevent
witnesses from appearing infront of a grand jury by

(01:29:27):
claiming investigative officerswere aware the evidence they had
was erroneous, misleading andcoerced.
They also alleged thatofficials in Baton Rouge were
willing to do anything toconvict Seale, including
instructing witnesses to lie,threatening them if they didn't
cooperate and attempting toplant drugs on him.
Next, Seale participated in twotelevised interviews.

(01:29:49):
The first aired in September1984 and focused on Seale's
claims that he was not a drugsmuggler.

I'm an aviation consultant.
This is another one of theiroverzealous sting operations.
You know this is not aconviction of drug smuggling.
Nobody's ever seen me withdrugs, caught me with drugs.

Ashley (01:30:13):
I'm not a drug smuggler.
The second and most significantTV program was titled Uncle Sam
Wants you and ran over fiveconsecutive nights in
mid-November 1984.
Not only did Seale continue todeny the smuggling accusations,
but he argued the governmenttargeted people they thought
were drug smugglers without anyconcrete basis and would stop at

(01:30:36):
nothing to secure convictions.
The same day the first segmentaired, seals signed a plea
agreement in Baton Rouge, andthis is like really, really
weird.
He signed this plea agreementbefore he was even formally
charged with anything.
He knew it was coming, and sohe and his attorney sat down
with the authorities in BatonRouge and basically said this

(01:30:58):
indictment's coming, I'm goingto plead this way.
Here's the deal they get.

Remi (01:31:02):
A preemptive plea agreement.

Ashley (01:31:04):
Yeah, the agreement required him to fully cooperate
in further investigations sothese are any investigations
being done by the authorities inBaton Rouge, not in Florida
Submit to debriefings andtestify whenever needed and turn
over the primary plane used formany of his drug runs.
In return, seale would pleadguilty to the charges.

(01:31:25):
But in exchange for hiscooperation it was agreed that
when it came time for sentencingthe amount of time he would
receive would not exceedwhatever the maximum sentence
was that he got in either ofthose Florida cases.
So it would merit and be doneconcurrently, since he had
already been sentenced to up to10 years for that those Florida
cases.
So it would mirror it and bedone concurrently.
Since he had already beensentenced to up to 10 years for

(01:31:45):
that first Florida case, batonRouge authorities were convinced
he wouldn't get a sentencereduction and could possibly
even get more time for casenumber two.
This agreement was suitable forall parties.
The DEA was happy as the guiltyplea and set over sentencing
hearing would mean that Seolwould look better on the stand
during his testimony againstdrug traffickers and key

(01:32:07):
international governmentofficials.
Authorities in Baton Rouge werecontent as they were positive.
Seol would serve at least sometime in prison at least seven
years, they thought and lastlyit benefited Seol, since it
meant he would remain free onbond until he was no longer
needed by the DEA, giving himmore time to prove himself
worthy of remaining in society.

(01:32:29):
Seale's first debriefing withthe Baton Rouge Task Force took
place in January 1985.
It quickly became clear that hewas not going to tell agents
anything they didn't alreadyknow, likely because he wanted
to protect those who had workedfor him and hadn't yet come
under the government's radar.
So they weren't really askinghim questions about anyone

(01:32:52):
outside of the states.
They were trying to get hiscrew, and that's information no
one really had, and he waskeeping all that really close to
the hip.
Like George Young, he wanted toprotect those who worked for
him and his efforts weresuccessful, as no one who was
involved in his organization wasever prosecuted.

Remi (01:33:13):
So he didn't rat anybody out in the end.

Ashley (01:33:16):
To make matters worse for the task force, seal was
largely unavailable fordebriefings for most of the year
, since he was the DEA's keywitness in multiple trials and
he surrendered to the USMarshals and becamea federally
protected witness in June 1985.
The only people who knew wherehe was were a few Miami DEA

(01:33:37):
agents and the prosecutingattorneys in Florida and Vegas
who were prepping him fortestimony agents and the
prosecuting attorneys in Floridaand Vegas who were prepping him
for testimony.

Remi (01:33:45):
I could not imagine getting in this deep with all
this DEA, FBI.
Oh my god, this is insanity.

Ashley (01:33:56):
When witness protection was necessary in this case.
As the government learned, ahit had been taken out on Seal
shortly after that Uncle SamWants you segment aired.
Although Seal's goal for theinterview was to lash out
against federal and stateauthorities in Baton Rouge, it
had the unintended consequenceof not only confirming the
cartel's suspicion that he wascompromised, but it was also the
first time they learned histrue identity.

Remi (01:34:16):
That did not work out very well for Barry.

Ashley (01:34:18):
So how did the government learn about the hit?
Well, the same month Seal wentinto witness protection.
Max Mermelstein, a high-levelcocaine distributor, was
arrested in Miami and chargedwith 11 counts related to
cocaine smuggling and agreed tobe a cooperating defendant.
In hopes of a favorablesentence, he told officers the

(01:34:39):
Ochoas contracted him to killSeal in January 1985, offering
him $500,000 if Seal was killedand $1 million if he was brought
back to Columbia alive.
Despite four trips to BatonRouge, Max couldn't find his
target.

Remi (01:34:55):
That is a really, really hefty price tag on Barry's head.
I don't think I've ever heardof a hit that high before.

Ashley (01:35:03):
I think they knew that he was the key witness in
multiple trials, including anyfuture ones that would come out
of the indictments that werealready issued against Escobar
and Ochoa.
So they wanted him out of thepicture and would stop at
nothing to get it done.
Wanted him out of the pictureand would stop at nothing to get

(01:35:25):
it done.
With Seals set to testify inseveral key trials in Miami and
Vegas, his attorneys filed amotion in August 1985 to dispose
of Seals' guilty verdict fromFlorida case number two.
So this is the one he had notbeen sentenced for.
But the sentence would be basedon how he did as a DEA
informant.
And during this hearing manyDEA agents testified in Seale's
favor, highlighting how he wasthe best witness they ever had

(01:35:48):
against cartel membersresponsible for drug smuggling.

Remi (01:35:52):
Like you said, he was a likable dude.

Ashley (01:35:54):
And he did do a really good job for the DEA.
It was the Baton Rouge onesthat he was given the runaround.
They also noted the risks hetook by cooperating, adding that
he would have received thehighest honors possible if he
was actually employed by the DEA.
At the end of the day, thejudge didn't completely throw
out the guilty verdict, butSeale's efforts were rewarded as

(01:36:16):
he was sentenced to five yearsof unsupervised probation.

Remi (01:36:21):
What does that mean?

Ashley (01:36:22):
So supervised probation is when you actively have to
check in with a probationofficer.
Unsupervised probation is youdon't have to check in with
anyone.
Basically, someone just runsyour name through the system and
the only way you get in troubleis if you've been arrested that
same month.
His testimony in Vegas resultedin close to 10 defendants being

(01:36:43):
convicted of cocaine smuggling.
He also provided testimony inMiami, which resulted in
convictions of more drugsmugglers and three top
officials in Turks and Caicoscharged with accepting bribes by
drug smugglers.
His testimony also made itpossible for the government to
file a motion seeking to haveJorge Ochoa extradited to the US

(01:37:03):
after he was arrested in Madridin November 1985.
I'll talk a little bit aboutwhat happens to Jorge Ochoa, but
for all intents and purposes,just remember in your mind right
now that he's in prison inSpain, and both the US and
Colombia filed extradition, soSpain had to decide where to
send him.
In total, seale spent 97 daysin witness protection, during

(01:37:28):
which he was kept in undergroundrooms with little access to the
outdoors and no contact withhis family.
Once his duty to testify wascompleted, he declined further
offers for government protection, wrongfully believing he was
safe as long as Jorge Ochoa wasstill in custody in Spain.
He also reinstated the armedbodyguard he hired a year prior

(01:37:48):
to be with him at all times Tocelebrate his release from
protection.
Seale spoke to the presidentand House members during a
commission on organized crime totalk all about drug smuggling.
This occurred on October 7th1985.
So he actually spoke with thepresident.
They held this commission wherethe president and several
Senate or House members whoevergoes were supposed to be talking

(01:38:12):
and learning about organizedcrime, and Seale was, I think,
the only one they picked to talkabout drug crimes, and everyone
found it very insightful.
Two weeks after this, heappeared before a Florida judge
on a hearing to reduce his10-year prison sentence for
Florida case number one.
The courtroom was filled withfederal employees, including

(01:38:36):
several from that commission,who talked about everything they
learned from Seale during thatmeeting and the federal
employees testified aboutSeale's value to the during that
meeting and the federalemployees testified about
Seale's value to the USgovernment, including how he
cooperated fully, providedtestimony that led to the
convictions of several cartelmembers, put his life in danger
while undercover, recognized theimpact his crimes had on

(01:38:57):
society and would be more usefulout of prison to continue
potential cooperation if andwhen needed.
Against all odds, the judgeagreed and reduced Seal's
sentence to time served plusthree years of probation.

Remi (01:39:11):
Both him and George just get out of these legal
situations not easily, but it'sjust mind-boggling how they kind
of navigate the legal systemand get through it without a
scratch on them.

Ashley (01:39:25):
George Jung just somehow got lucky.
He had really good attorneysthat were like pointing out all
these little loopholes thatcould potentially be highlighted
at a trial.
Barry Seale was just like I'lldo whatever you want me to do.
Hopefully this will pay off.
This sentence reduction outragedauthorities in Baton Rouge,
since it meant the sentence hecould receive there could not be

(01:39:48):
more than five years ofprobation, since it was the most
severe across both Floridacases.
He appeared for his lastsentencing hearing on January
24th 1986.
The judge disagreed that Sealewas a changed man, pointing out
that he smuggled about 17 tonsof cocaine into the States,
netting himself an estimated $25million over his career.

(01:40:10):
Although he felt Seal deservedto spend time in prison, he felt
forced to honor the plea dealall parties had agreed upon.
He ordered Seal to pay $35,000in fines and spend five years on
probation.
The conditions were this hecould not travel outside of
Baton Rouge unless the judgespecifically signed off on it.
He needed to carry a pager atall times and report to his

(01:40:33):
probation officer within onehour of it going off, and he had
to produce a complete financialaccount of any business and
personal expenses on a quarterlybasis.

Remi (01:40:43):
In other words, he was stuck in Louisiana.

Ashley (01:40:46):
And to basically show how he was making his money.
These conditions were all fineand good, but there were two
more that angered his lawyers.
First, the judge told Seal thatnot only could he not have
weapons, but no one around himcould either, even if they had
permits to carry.
His lawyers stressed that therewas a credible hit on his life,
so he needed some sort ofprotection.

(01:41:08):
But the judge made it clearthat if his bodyguards carried
guns and were caught, seal wouldbe viewed as a proxy carrier
and risk having his probationrevoked entirely, with the rest
of the time being converted to aprison sentence.

Remi (01:41:22):
No protection at all.

Ashley (01:41:24):
And this is the one that would ultimately be histamized.

Remi (01:41:29):
What's he going to use?
Like a knife pen, I mean?
Yeah.

Ashley (01:41:32):
Well.
Lastly, the judge ordered Sealto reside at the Salvation Army
Community Treatment Center inBaton Rouge for six months, and
he had to be inside the facilitybetween the hours of 6 pm and 6
am.
The defense again tried tohighlight the danger Seale would
be in if he not only had tolive in a halfway house but
abide by such a predictableschedule.

(01:41:52):
Although several agents fromFlorida and Vegas testified that
they supported this fear, thejudge wouldn't have it.
He did offer an alternative forSeale to go into witness
protection again, but Sealerejected it after learning his
probation conditions wouldremain the same.
He also noted witnessprotection was incredibly
restrictive and would result inhis family being forced to

(01:42:14):
relocate to wherever the USMarshals wanted them to go,
which would interrupt theircomfort and his children's
schooling.
I think another reason Sealerejected this offer is he just
simply didn't recognize thedanger he was in.
This is based on a statementthat he gave in a prior
interview when asked about thecartel's hit.

John.
There's a risk in all covertoperation work.
There's a risk in everythingthat you do in this line of work
.
That's why the pay is so good.
The old saying if you can'tstand the heat, don't work in
the kitchen.
I can take the pressure.

(01:42:53):
I'm not worried about thecontract.

Ashley (01:42:56):
So what do you think, Remy?
Why do you think he didn't wantto go back into witness
protection?

Remi (01:43:03):
you think he didn't want to go back into witness
protection.
From the interview it seemslike he is almost resigned to
his fate, like he seems like heis not worried but still aware
that that threat does exist andis kind of looming over him.
I think he was almost ready toaccept it.
Like this train has gone farenough and has been a crazy ride
and with this judge's mandatebasically serving him up on a

(01:43:25):
silver platter, I think hedidn't want to disturb his
family anymore and thought thiswas probably going to be it for
him and didn't feel like movingwould make much of a difference.

Ashley (01:43:36):
I think he knew they'd get him either way.
In this documentary that'slinked in the show notes there
is a couple interviews with hiswife or widow and she says kind
of the same thing.
She's like he really didn'twant to disturb me and the kids.
His kids were pretty young andhe thought, okay, I just have to
do this for six months.
After six months I can kind ofbe more vigilant and shift up my

(01:44:00):
schedule, but I can do this forsix months.

Remi (01:44:03):
So he was at least optimistic.
Six months only.
I can get through this, but hehas to be in the same location,
same hours, every single night,and they know where he is.
It's only a matter of time.
He's not going to last sixmonths.

Ashley (01:44:17):
Seal began reporting to the Salvation Army in late
January 1986.
Seale began reporting to theSalvation Army in late January
1986.
Around that same time, the IRSissued a $29 million tax lien
against his property and seizedall his furniture, boats, cars
and planes.
This was related to a moneylaundering investigation that

(01:44:37):
began in April 1983.
While on probation, seale'sbrother-in-law, bill Bottoms,
finally convinced him of thedanger he was in.
Each morning, bottoms, or anassociate, met him outside the
halfway house and escorted himback at 6 pm, as those were the
times he was most vulnerable,given the predictability of his
schedule.

Remi (01:44:54):
Bottoms was such a good friend.
It is so fucked up how theyportrayed him.
I still can't get over that.
I'm sorry.

Ashley (01:45:03):
As Seals' fear grew, he and Bottoms made plans to get
him out of the country to ahideout in Costa Rica.
The plan was for Seal to fly tothe Cayman Islands the morning
of February 20th, giving him a12-hour head start before anyone
would notice he was missing Dueto heavy traffic the night
prior.
Bottoms called Seal to let himknow that he would be late to
escort him inside to theSalvation Army.
Seal told him to not worryabout it, since they would be

(01:45:26):
seeing each other tomorrow toexecute their escape plan.
Seal pulled into the SalvationArmy right on time at 6pm on
February 19th 1986.
Before he could even get out ofhis Cadillac, two men walked up
to his window and fired sevenshots from their Uzi machine
guns, killing him instantly.
And this is something thatbrother-in-law, bill Bottoms

(01:45:47):
like, essentially blames himselffor Seale's death Because it
was the one night he wasn'tthere.

Remi (01:45:52):
It was not your fault, Bill.

Ashley (01:45:54):
Miguel Velez was arrested at 11 pm after the taxi
that was driving him to theairport struck a deer.
Bernardo Vasquez was arrestedas soon as his flight landed in
Miami.
Within 48 hours of Seal'smurder, six Colombians involved
in the conspiracy to kill himwere in custody.
Jorge Ochoa and Pablo Escobarwere also charged with

(01:46:15):
conspiracy to commit murder.
So Seal lasted about threeweeks in probation.

Remi (01:46:21):
Honestly, that's longer than I would have expected.

Ashley (01:46:24):
Seale's murder trial began in April 1987.
Three of the six were convictedand sentenced to life in prison
, One was convicted on lessercharges and the last two were
acquitted and deported.
Jorge Ochoa was ultimatelyextradited from Spain to
Colombia in July 1986.
From Spain to Colombia in July1986.

(01:46:47):
He vanished after receiving asuspended sentence for charges
related to falsifying documentsfor importing fighting bulls
from Spain, successfullyavoiding US capture.
It is crazy that Spain chose toextradite him to Colombia when
he was just charged withillegally importing bulls versus
all of the cocaine shit that hewas charged with over here.
The patriarch of the Ochoafamily also evaded the US

(01:47:10):
government and died from kidneyfailure in 2002.
The US did prosecute one Ochoabrother in 2003 by securinga
30-year sentence for cocainetrafficking, after convincing
Colombia to agree to theextradition request.
As for Pablo Escobar, he turnedhimself in to the Colombian
government in June 1991 inexchange for a promise that he

(01:47:31):
would not be extradited to theUnited States and could serve
his time in comfortable prisonquarters.
A year later he escaped aftergetting word he was being moved
to a harsher prison.
He escaped after getting wordhe was being moved to a harsher
prison.
He was in hiding until December1993, when about 500 members of
the Colombian Special Forces,with aid by the US government,

(01:47:54):
surrounded his safe house inMedellin and shot him dead as he
tried to flee over the roof.

Remi (01:47:57):
I've seen footage of this online.
He was living in a very meagerliving space towards the end of
his life.

Ashley (01:48:04):
Always remember that scene in Narcos, when the whole
what two seasons is like builtup on, or is it one?
I can't remember if he dies atthe end of the first or second,
but it's all like him living inthese lavish, gorgeous spaces
and then at the end it's justhim in this little
hole-in-the-wall house andsitting at a table by himself
with his head down.

Remi (01:48:24):
I think there's a meme of sad Pablo Escobar sitting on a
rundown swing set, lookingreally sad.

Ashley (01:48:32):
In early 1986, senator John Kerry launched an
investigation into illegal gunrunning and narcotics
trafficking alleged to beassociated with Contra forces in
the war against the Nicaraguangovernment.
This was known as theIran-Contra scandal.
The Kerry committee identifiedseveral companies contracted by

(01:48:53):
the US government to supplyhumanitarian assistance to
Contra forces.
Four of them had knownconnections to drug smuggling
and this was information thefederal government had before
they contracted these companies.
A handful of contracted CIApilots were also known to be
associated with drug smuggling.
The results of this inquestcaused many to believe that the

(01:49:15):
mission was at best funded byprofits from drug trafficking
and at worst, involved the CIAlooking the other way if cocaine
was being transported into theUS on return flights.
Since Seal was a pilot withknown government ties, this
seems to be why many believed hewas connected to the CIA.
In reality, the only time heever had contact with anyone

(01:49:36):
from the CIA was when theyinstalled those two cameras on
the military cargo plane.
Also, after he died, thismilitary cargo plane did
continue to be used by the CIAfor their stuff they were doing
in Nicaragua and it was shotdown.
So because that plane was usedto capture these photos, it was
purchased by SEAL and since itwas shot down in Nicaragua,

(01:49:59):
people assumed that SEAL wasinvolved with the CIA, when he
wasn't, despite what conspiracytheorists would lead you to
believe, and I guess everyoneinvolved with the making of
American Made.
Seale repeatedly denied havingany connection with the CIA
whenever he testified in court,which was a lot.
There also isn't any evidencethat he ever told people he was

(01:50:20):
a CIA operative, although somesay he did let people think he
was when they asked, since itkept them from asking a lot of
questions about his smugglingactivities.
Seal was buried in Green OaksMemorial Park in Baton Rouge.
He was laid to rest in a skyblue casket with a wreath on top
containing a tiny TWA modelplane.
His gravestone features a planeand the following inscription A

(01:50:44):
rebel adventurer the likes ofwhom, in previous days, made
America great.
And that is the true story ofDoug Liman's American Made.
What do you think, remy?
Pretty different.

Remi (01:50:55):
Lies, all lies.
It's not even close to the truestory whatsoever.
It's not even close to the truestory whatsoever.
It seems like the filmmakerstook the idea of Barry Seale and
just did their own thing withit to make it into a fun Tom
Cruise action comedy.

Ashley (01:51:14):
They took the conspiracy that was developed about him
after his death, that he wasworking for the CIA and also
involved in drug smuggling atthe same time, and that's what
they turned into a movie.

Remi (01:51:25):
And the fact that the CIA was not working with Barry
apparently during all of thisand it is such a big factor in
the film with Domhnall Gleeson'scharacter.
Yeah, the whole movie is utterbullshit.
It's kind of sad because, again, this is a crazy story and I
think a story like this wouldhave made a good dramatic film

(01:51:46):
instead of a action comedy.
Tom Cruise flying planes film,Because the true story is insane
.

Ashley (01:52:05):
But they kind of disregarded all of it to just
make a Tom Cruise movie.
It also reminds me a lot ofSound of Freedom, in that some
could argue that it's actuallykind of irresponsible for you to
make a movie like this and sayit's based on a true story, when
it's all based on conspiracytheories and misinformation.

Remi (01:52:17):
That's a very good point.
You could have made this notbased on a true story and just a
fictional story that wasinspired by Barry Seale, and,
yeah, it would be a lot lessoffensive, as you so eloquently
put it.

Ashley (01:52:31):
Or even like have.
At the beginning like you know,barry Seale was there was no
real CIA ties.
This is what we imagine itwould have been like if those
rumors were true, or somethinglike that.

Remi (01:52:44):
But they provided updates on characters who did not exist.
I know Monty again, dom HillGleeson's character.
He did not exist, but I wasexpecting him to be a composite
of other people in Barry's life.
But yeah, he was justcompletely fabricated.

Ashley (01:53:00):
Yeah, it's a very interesting direction they chose
to go about it.
I didn't even think about that,how they provided updates on a
fake character.

Remi (01:53:08):
They said he got a promotion.

Ashley (01:53:10):
Which I know there's some movies that will like, do
that.
They're kind of like saying,like giving the feel that
they're true, but then theydon't also say at the beginning,
based on a true story, whenit's not.

Remi (01:53:21):
But then they don't also say at the beginning based on a
true story, when it's not, anddid not provide any updates on
what happened to Jorge Ochoa oranyone else.
It literally just provided somerandom made up stuff about
characters that didn't exist.
Lucy didn't exist.
I mean, yeah, it's all justmade up, so why not just make it
a fictional story?
I don't know why you would tryand pretend at all that this was

(01:53:45):
based on a true story.
It may be inspired by, but itis not based on a true story at
all well, shall we get to ourobjection of the week?
Your honor.
I object and why is that, mrreed?
Because it's devastating to mycase.
Overrule gooded, good call.
In case this is your first timehearing this part of the show,

(01:54:06):
our objection of the week is themost frivolous, unnecessary
change made from adaption fromreal life to silver screen.
Usually something that doesn'taffect the plot whatsoever, but
was still changed for unknownreasons.
Ashley, you want to kick it offon this round.

Ashley (01:54:24):
I think it's really hard to not go with just how Bubba
was portrayed.

Remi (01:54:29):
That's too big.
That's too big of a thing.
I would say Bubba was on mylist, but that is such a drastic
change that I almost think it'stoo much.
It has to be more meaninglessthan that.

Ashley (01:54:40):
Okay, then I'm going to choose how.
At the end of the film, thejudge instructed him that he
just had to check into theSalvation Army and not stay
there.

Remi (01:54:52):
That's not a bad one.
I had something partiallyconnected to that.
I had a lot of things, but theone I was thinking of that's
connected to yours was that hewas sentenced to five years of
probation and in the film he wassentenced to 1,000 hours of
community service.

Ashley (01:55:08):
But you also said he still had to go to Salvation
Army to check in.

Remi (01:55:12):
He did, but it didn't seem like he had to stay there.
It seemed like he just had togo and hand out food and stuff
like that and then go back tothe hotel at night.

Ashley (01:55:22):
Oh, like that's where he had to do his community service
.

Remi (01:55:24):
Yes.

Ashley (01:55:26):
Oh.

Remi (01:55:26):
But the other one I had, which I think I'm going to go
with this one, was that therewere only two cameras on his CIA
plane, not 50 cameras.
I understand why they did itfor the film.
It was more for dramaticpurposes and to make Barry
Seale's character feel moreuncomfortable doing the next run

(01:55:46):
because there were all thesecords hanging down and lots of
things that would draw thecartel's attention.
But yeah two cameras, not 50.

Ashley (01:55:54):
I had that one written down as well two.

Remi (01:56:03):
I'll give it to you this time, Ashley.
I'll think that's a good one,and the one that I had that was
piggybacking on yours wasrelated.
So I think his sentencing andwhat he was mandated to do and
just the little details of thatwere changed unnecessarily and
really would not have impactedanything if it was kept accurate
.
But that brings us to the mainevent of our podcast and season
finale main event, no less.

Ashley (01:56:24):
Our verdict.

Narrator (01:56:25):
At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will
deliver a verdict based on thefilm's accuracy.
If the film is an honestportrayal of the events, then it
will earn a not guilty verdict.
If the adaptation is mostlyfactual but creative liberties
were taken for the sake ofentertainment, the film will be
declared a mistrial.
But if the film ultimatelystrays too far from the truth,

(01:56:48):
then it will be condemned asguilty and sentenced to a life
behind bars.

Ashley (01:56:53):
All right, Remy, I kicked us off with the objection
.
Why don't you kick us off withthe verdict?

Remi (01:56:59):
This is probably not a surprise at all and a
disappointment that we're endingthe season this way but I am
giving American Made a big fatguilty verdict.
It is mind-blowing how much theychanged.
This should not have even beenadvertised as based on a true
story.
It is a Tom Cruise movie.

(01:57:21):
It is not based on a true story.
It is a fun Tom Cruise moviewhere he's a good guy and he's
flying planes, doing some coolstunts.
Here and there there's a zerogravity sex scene.
That's kind of neat.
That has nothing to do withanything and it's just kind of a
Hollywood fun movie.
And the real life story remindedme more of something along the

(01:57:42):
lines of Uncut Gems, where thisguy had so much crazy shit going
on in his life that he wasnavigating but still kind of
keeping his cool and there weretimes where it'd get worse and
then it would go back to kind ofevening out again and then get
worse again and his life was aroller coaster man and it was
not as fun and lighthearted of aroller coaster as the film made

(01:58:05):
it out to be.
That plus the CIA not reallybeing involved with him at all.
I could make a list and talkfor like 20 minutes about all
the stuff that they got wrong orchanged or just ignored about
the truth.
But I will just end it withguilty, guilty, guilty.

Ashley (01:58:22):
Yeah, with this it would take less time to make a list
of all the things that wereaccurate versus all the things
they changed.
No doubt it's guilty.
I remember when you had justsat down to watch this, you were
talking about Dom Gleeson'scharacter and mentioned that he
was with the CAA and right offthe bat I was like this is gonna

(01:58:43):
be guilty.
I knew immediately it was gonnago with this angle that he was
with the CIA, based on all theselong rumors about him, and it's
unfortunate.
I think that they could make areally interesting movie about
the real Barry Seale.

Remi (01:58:59):
Who would you recast Barry Seale.
If they were to do the filmtoday, or even, I guess, when
this film was made, who would bea good Barry Seale in your mind
?

Ashley (01:59:09):
Okay, I have two that I could see Mark Ruffalo.

Remi (01:59:12):
I could see that.
I could definitely see Ruffalopulling this off.
He's a great actor.
He could probably put on theweight.
He seems like a dedicated one.
So yeah, I could see thatpretty easily.

Ashley (01:59:22):
Or Jake Gyllenhaal.

Remi (01:59:28):
Jake Gyllenhaal.
I could see him doing it aswell.
Again, I think he would gainthe weight for the role.
He's a little too smooth, Iwould say, but he is such a
brilliant actor I think he couldpull it off.
For my choices, there are threepeople that came to mind.

Ashley (01:59:39):
I could also see Matt Damon doing a really good job.

Remi (01:59:42):
I do think Matt Damon would make an exceptional job.
He wasn't who I picked, but hewould probably be my runner up
for who would play this reallyreally well.
But if this movie was made backin the 80s as a comedy, I would
pick John Candy.
That would be my pick for him.
I think he would do a reallyfun job if they made it just
like you know, a Dan Aykroydtype 80s comedy.
I think John Candy would begreat If it was made maybe five

(02:00:06):
years before.
I think Philip Seymour Hoffmanwould have done a brilliant job
in this role, as he doeseverything.
One actor was sticking out tome who had not really had his
comeback at this time but I dothink could have done a good job
in this role is Brendan Fraser.

Ashley (02:00:22):
Oh yeah, I like Brendan Fraser.

Remi (02:00:25):
I think he could have done a really good job.
He's very likable.
I think he would be able to dothe accent.
He looks similar to himphysically.
I think that Brendan Frasercould have knocked this out of
the park if he was given theopportunity, and it was, of
course, more realistic of aninterpretation.

Ashley (02:00:44):
Well, you get the recasting award, because I think
all three of yours are betterthan mine.

Remi (02:00:49):
Well, matt Damon runner up , though I think Damon would
have also killed it in this role.
But that is it.
First season three.
We did it, we made it to thefinish line and we're not done
folks.
We have season four around thecorner.
We are going to take a bit of abreak.
The holidays are coming up.
We're gonna try and stock up onepisodes, so we are not trying

(02:01:10):
to edit and record all of theseepisodes and get them uploaded
within a matter of days.
We will be back on the lastmonday of january, january 27th,
with a brand new episode.
Should we tell them what we'regoing to be starting next season
off with?

Ashley (02:01:26):
Ashley Sure, and maybe we'll start doing.
What we plan on doing in allfuture episodes is the trailer
of the movie, to give you guys alittle sneak peek of what we're
going to be talking about.
We will be kicking off seasonfour with a movie that's
probably, of all the ones wetalked about so far, maybe other

(02:01:47):
than Scream one I've seen themost and I love, and our first
musical Chicago.
Slick your hair and wear yourbuckle shoes.
And all that jazz.
I hear Thelma has it.
I want a brand new start.
To do that.

(02:02:07):
Roxy wants it.

Tom Cruise (02:02:12):
You got connections, I would have said anything to
get a piece of that Get off.

Narrator (02:02:16):
Yes, billy can fix it.
My client feels that it was thecombination of liquor and jazz
which led to her downfall, butin a city where everyone loves a
legend, there's only room forone.

Remi (02:02:36):
That's Chicago.
You love this movie, ashley.
I know you have spoken about itnumerous times.
You've sang the songs randomlythroughout the house on multiple
occasions.
I am not a musical fanpersonally and I think the first
time I ever saw this movie fromstart to finish was with you,
because I just was never intomusicals and I think I was

(02:02:59):
pretty surprised to find out itis based on a true story, but
I'm going in open-minded.
I've listened to a few of thesongs to get jazzed for the
episode, so to speak, and I'mlooking forward to it.

Ashley (02:03:11):
I think this will be an interesting one again, our first
musical so uncharted territoryand before we leave you, please,
if you like what you're hearing, don't forget to rate, review,
subscribe, tell a friend andalso visit us at Criminal
Adaptations on Instagram, TikTokor shoot us an email at

(02:03:32):
criminaladaptations at gmailcom.

Remi (02:03:34):
And until January 27th court is adjourned.

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