Auto Focus

Episode Transcript
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Remi (00:08):
Welcome to Criminal Adaptations, the show where we
take a look at some of yourfavorite movies and the true
crime stories that inspired them.
I'm Remy.
I spent over a decade workingin the film and television
industry in Los Angeles,California.

Ashley (00:21):
And I'm Ashley.
I'm a clinical psychologist andforensic evaluator in the state
of Oregon.

Remi (00:26):
And welcome back everyone for another episode of Criminal
Adaptations.
And happy late Halloween toeveryone.
I think we're gonna try andplan out maybe a Halloween
episode or holiday episodes nextyear, but we didn't really have
the dates planned for thisseason, so maybe next year.
But we hope you all had a happyHalloween.

Ashley (00:49):
And we also hope that everyone is coping well with the
upcoming election which, by thetime this airs, will be
tomorrow.

Remi (00:57):
Thankfully, that will be over soon and we have a little
bit of good news that we wouldlike to share with everyone.
It's a personal update from us.
We got engaged, we went toHawaii and, yeah, we decided it
was time to tie the knot andmake everything official.
We don't have a date yet oranything, but, yes, me and my

(01:18):
co-host are going to be wed.

Ashley (01:20):
Our first recording as a soon toto-be-troved couple.

Remi (01:26):
That was a complicated way of saying it, but yes, I.

Ashley (01:29):
I know, and I hope I said it right.
I'm not really sure, but todistract listeners, remy, what
are we talking about today?

Remi (01:35):
Well, Ashley, have you ever heard of a show called
Hogan's Heroes?

Ashley (01:40):
I think maybe I had heard the name before, but I
definitely knew nothing aboutwhat it was about until this
story.

Remi (01:47):
Same here.
I knew a bit about it from mydad.
I think he used to watch itback in the day.
But we are talking about thestar of that show today, Mr Bob
Crane.
And in case you don't know,Hogan's Heroes was a sitcom
about a World War II POW camp.

Ashley (02:07):
Something that doesn't sound funny at all, but was a
smash hit apparently.

Remi (02:12):
This show was a huge hit.
Apparently.
It was like the Office or Parksand Rec back in the day, which
is very unbelievable to me thata show literally starring people
playing Nazis was a huge hitback in the day.
But the star of this show had abit of a sordid past.
That is what we are going to befocusing on today.

Ashley (02:33):
That, interestingly, didn't start until he was cast
as the lead in Hogan's Heroes.

Remi (02:39):
This story is a bit of a warning on the dangers of fame
and how it can pull you down, Iwould say but had you ever heard
of this film, the filmAutofocus, which is what we are
here to discuss today?

Ashley (02:54):
I had only heard about it from you mentioning it that
you had seen it before, evenwell before we thought about
doing this podcast.
You had mentioned it because weboth like Willem Dafoe and you
had said that you saw this movieand it was nuts.

Remi (03:09):
Big Willem Dafoe fans over here.
He is an amazing actor.
It is a travesty that he hasnot been nominated or won an
Academy Award at this point, butI think he will someday.
This is one of his earlierfilms before he had made it big
with the Spider-Man movies, buthe is.
He will someday.
This is one of his earlierfilms before he had made it big
with the Spider-Man movies, buthe is a brilliant actor.
Poor Things is amazing.

(03:30):
His Lighthouse performanceastonishing.
This guy is so good and in thismovie he's no different.
But I had seen this film a long, long time ago, I want to say
back when I was a teenager.
One of my co-workers atStarbucks actually recommended
it to me, so I ended up checkingit out and I think I rented it

(03:51):
from Blockbuster Video.
That's how long ago that was,but it always stuck out in my
mind.
I don't think I had watched itsince, but it definitely made an
impact.

Ashley (04:00):
And a bit of a unique viewer warning.
This episode does dealprimarily with sexual content.
I don't know how graphic youget into it.
When you talk about the movieRemy probably more than I do I
kind of hunch a lot, but it wasa big part of this man's life
and thus is depicted in the filmheavily.

(04:20):
So if that is not somethingyou're into, it's not like rape
or sexual assault or anything.
It's really just BDSM, s&m,alternative sex practice, stuff
that this guy was into.
But if that's not your jam,then this will not be the
episode for you.

Remi (04:34):
Bob Crane was indeed a sex addict and the film does go
into a lot of that.
But it is a rated R film andnot an NC-17 film, so they
really never get too graphic.
But we will be discussing a lotof details and the ins and outs
no pun intended of the truestory and all of the exploits

(04:56):
Bob Crane got up to.
But with that, should we justdive right in, or was there
anything else you wanted to getinto beforehand?

Ashley (05:03):
No, I think that's it.
Let's talk about this movie.

Remi (05:07):
Autofocus is a 2002 film directed by Paul Schrader and
starring Greg Kinnear and WillemDefoe, with a screenplay by
Michael Gerbosi.
Taxi driver screenwriter PaulSchrader, who had previously
worked on films about such otherreal-life characters as Patty
Hearst and Jake LaMotta, hadsince grown tired of constantly

(05:28):
being offered biopics and had astanding mandate to refuse any
more offers in the genre.
That all changed, however,after Schrader was convinced to
read the script for Autofocus byhis agent and was immediately
riveted by the subject matter.

Ashley (05:43):
Wait.
So this director wrote TaxiDriver and Raging Bull.

Remi (05:46):
He did yes, he is primarily known more as a
screenwriter, but he directed Ibelieve it was American Gigolo
and a few other films as well.

Ashley (05:57):
I haven't seen Raging Bull but I know you've said it
was really good.
But Taxi Driver is great.

Remi (06:03):
Taxi Driver is probably in my top 10 favorite films of all
time.
It's brilliant and it'sextremely well written, and Paul
Schrader is a talented guy.
After reading the script,schrader commented that it was a
story that would have beenworth telling had it been
fictional, and was all the moreinteresting because it was
historical.
That seems to be a runningtrend, with a lot of these true

(06:24):
crime stories being made intofilms.
People read the screenplay andare just astonished that this is
actually a true story.
The original screenplay, whichwas based on Robert Graysmith's
book the Murder of Bob Crane,primarily focused on Crane's
murder and the events thathappened afterwards, so Schrader
decided to do his own researchinto Crane's life.

(06:44):
To fill in the majority of thestory, schrader went on to
interview several people who hadknown both Bob Crane and John
Carpenter personally, includingBob Crane Jr, scotty Crane,
richard Dawson's son, markDawson, and John Carpenter's
widow Diana, along with severalother people.

Ashley (07:02):
Do you know who Richard Dawson is along?

Remi (07:04):
with several other people.
Do you know who Richard Dawsonis?
He was one of the co-stars fromHogan's Heroes.
I only know this because of theautofocus film that I watched
the other day.
But he was British.
That's about as much as I knowfrom him.
And didn't he do a talk show ora game show or something later
on?

Ashley (07:18):
Oh, he sure did.
He's the infamous kissing hostfrom Family Feud.

Remi (07:22):
That's who this guy is.
I knew that name sounded sofamiliar.
Oh, wow.
Okay, that puts it in aslightly different perspective.
Now For the lead role of BobCrane.
Schrader offered the part tothe former Talk Soup host, Greg
Kinnear, who had been nominatedfor Best Supporting Actor for as
Good as it Gets just five yearsprior.

(07:43):
Kinnear had been a fan of theTV series Hogan's Heroes during
his childhood and accepted therole due to its intriguing story
and complex characterrelationships, and I also heard
in an interview with Schraderthat he purposefully casted
Kinnear because of his formerexperience on the show Talk Soup

(08:03):
.
I guess it reminded him a lotof Bob Crane, his demeanor and
performance on that old show.
It's still on today.
I think it's a very differentshow now, but that was even
before my time.
I never remembered seeing thisguy hosting Talk Soup.

Ashley (08:17):
Bob Crane was also a radio show host before he got
into Hogan's Heroes, so he wasknown for his personability, so
I could see him, the director,making some parallels here.

Remi (08:29):
And Greg Kinnear as well did have radio experience.
He actually worked as the hostof a radio show in Greece when
he was a teenager.
Just a little bit of side infothere, in preparation for the
role, kinnear learned how toplay the drums and watched every
single episode of Hogan'sHeroes, along with any other
media appearance Bob Crane hadever made.

Ashley (08:50):
That's 168 episodes.

Remi (08:53):
Yeah, it is a lot.
This is back in the day when aseason was like 24 episodes or
something like that.
So yeah, this ran for a whileand there were a lot of episodes
.
That so yeah, this ran for awhile and there were a lot of
episodes.
But Kinnear has stated thatwatching the film Superdad was
by far the most challengingaspect of all of his research.
I have not seen Superdad, but Iwatched the trailer and I think

(09:15):
that's enough for me.
Willem Dafoe, who Schraderdescribed as an avant-garde
experimental theater actor, hadpreviously worked with the
director on the 1992 film LightSleeper, which I have never
heard of or seen.
Schrader chose to cast Defoe inthe supporting role of John
Carpenter to further thejuxtaposition between the two
actors, and I think it paid offwell in the final product.

(09:38):
There are two very, verydifferent styles of acting going
on here, and Dafoe is just sogood at being like creepy but
kind of sexual.
He has a weird way of doingthings, but he's just so good.
Dafoe has said that he had somedifficulty mastering the
technical lingo for hischaracter and even attempted to
read a 50-page book explainingthe intricacies of video cameras

(10:01):
, but ultimately fell asleep inthe process and I probably would
have done the same thing.
I worked for a camera rentalplace back in LA for a while and
it is like learning anotherlanguage If you're not into it,
it is very, very difficult topick up.

Ashley (10:16):
And this guy, John Carpenter, was an expert in
video equipment.
So the amount you would have tolearn to even get to a fraction
of what this guy knew would bedaunting in and of itself.

Remi (10:27):
Willem Dafoe and Greg Kinnear, who both have blue eyes
in real life, wore browncontacts for the film.
Dafoe wore them to give hischaracter, john, a hint of
Native American heritage, whileKinnear wore them to better
resemble Bob Crane.
Kinnear mentioned in the DVDcommentary that he had to start
wearing his contacts a weekbefore filming just to get used

(10:48):
to them enough to not bedistracted during his scenes,
and he has advised any actors toavoid having contacts for a
feature film role becauseapparently they're super
uncomfortable.

Ashley (10:59):
As a side note here, remy actually bought the DVD of
this movie because he couldn'tfind a lot about pre and post
production, and he saw that theDVD came with the DVD commentary
, which, for our listeners whohaven't ever watched a DVD
commentary, it's a whole runthrough of the movie with
different people that wereinvolved talking about it as the

(11:20):
movie goes, and in this case itwas Greg Kinnear and Willem
Dafoe.
So you'll have to let us knowif you like the extra fun
details that we were able to addin for this episode.

Remi (11:31):
I must say I do miss DVD commentaries.
I used to watch them back infilm school a lot and they seem
to have kind of gone away withstreaming and all that stuff.
But it is cool to just hear theactors or the filmmakers
literally sitting in a roomwatching the movie and just
saying like, oh yeah, that guywas a friend of this person.
This day was really cold.
That's why we're not in thepool during this scene, like

(11:53):
little things like that.
It's a very interesting behindthe scenes peek from people that
were there.

Ashley (11:58):
I know I was in and out of the room as you were watching
this and one thing I overheardwas I think it was Willem Dafoe
was like oh, this is my favoritescene coming up, and it was
just with like the wind blew andGreg Kinnear's hair stood
straight up and he's like, ha ha, look how stupid you look.
And it just seemed like theywere having just a really fun
time like shooting the shit.

Remi (12:18):
And the actors definitely notice a lot of things about
their performance that normalpeople wouldn't.
And in that scene that you'retalking about, literally Greg
Kinnear's hair just is blown upin the wind and it kind of looks
like a peacock or something andWillem Dafoe just thought that
was the most hilarious thing inthe world and Greg Kinnear was
just.
I can't believe they used thattake and this and that and in

(12:40):
all honesty, I did not catchthat at all the first time I was
watching it.
I think that's something thatjust people who are really,
really focusing in on theirperformance pick up on.
Robert David Crane, bob Crane'sonly son from his first
marriage to Anne Crane, workedas a technical advisor on the
film, contributing many of thekey details scene to scene.

(13:01):
Robert even loaned Kinnear hisfather's original brown leather
jacket worn by Bob Sr on theshow Hogan's Heroes to use
during the film.
Robert also has a cameo in thefilm as a reporter interviewing
Bob Crane about his successfulmarriage, which is ironic to say
the least.
But with that should we diveinto the feature film Autofocus.

Ashley (13:24):
Yeah, let's do it.

Remi (13:41):
After a surprisingly upbeat song over the opening
credits, our story begins in1964 at a radio station in Los
Angeles where we are firstintroduced to Bob Crane, played
by Greg Kinnear, who iscurrently working as a DJ in a
similar vein as Ryan Seacrestfrom American Idol.
After the show, bob heads offto a meeting with his agent,
lenny, played by Ron Liebman, todiscuss any new potential
acting opportunities.

(14:01):
Though Bob has his sights seton a career in feature films,
lenny instead offers Bob thelead role in an upcoming TV
series called Hogan's Heroes,which would essentially be a
sitcom that takes place in aGerman POW camp during World War
II.
Naturally, bob feels that theentire concept of a comedy

(14:22):
centered around Nazis with alaugh track to be a potential
career killer, but neverthelessstill agrees to read over the
script for consideration.
That weekend, bob and his wife,anne, played by Rita Wilson,
who is married to Tom Hanks inreal life, along with their
three children, attend Sundaychurch services at the historic

(14:43):
Los Angeles California temple onSanta Monica Boulevard, which I
actually used to drive by on myway to work on a semi-regular
basis, and it is massive.
It's a very impressive church.
After church, the familyreturns home to enjoy a
delicious meal where we learnthat Bob has reconsidered his
agent's proposal to star in theTV series after reading the

(15:04):
script and now seems genuinelyexcited at the prospect of
playing the lead character,colonel Robert E Hogan.
His wife, anne, however, stillconsiders the premise of a
Holocaust sitcom to be inextremely bad taste and advises
her husband against taking therole, and I think that is
probably good advice.

(15:25):
This sounds like a terribleidea for a show.
Before bed, bob jams out on hisdrum set as he considers his
options, before inevitablydeciding to listen to his wife's
warning about not taking onsuch a controversial project.
When Bob finally joins his wifein bed, he is surprised to
learn that Anne had read overthe script since their last

(15:45):
conversation and reluctantlyadmits that she actually did
find much of the material to berather amusing.
With this change of heart, annegives Bob her blessing to do
the show, despite her initialtrepidations.
Bob is later introduced to theother cast members during their
first table read, which is apre-production event where the

(16:06):
cast and crew read the scriptaloud together.
After years of working in radio, bob's initial reading comes
across as overly animated and heis advised by the director to
tone down his performance forthe show.
We then cut to the filming ofthe pilot episode of Hogan's
Heroes, giving us our very firstglimpse into the actual tone of
the pilot episode of Hogan'sHeroes, giving us our very first
glimpse into the actual tone ofthe series.

Hogan's Heroes clip (16:26):
Now my leniency is a legend right Wrong
.
What do you mean?
You've got a reputation touphold.
You know that.
I mean you're running the mostbrutal prison in Germany.
I amIn the world.
You rank third, right behindDevil's Island and Alcatraz.
Third, ah,and you're the toughest
commandant in GermanyI am.
Oh,in the last words was killed a
kaiser today?
It is kill Clink!kill, clink.

(16:50):
I like that.
You must not show weakness.
You must punish the men, cancelthe football game.
You run a tough camp.
That is my dutya
goodsoldier
again.

Ashley (17:01):
I cannot believe this show was such a smash hit.

Remi (17:05):
It had its moments, I guess.
But yeah, the subject matter isso out there.
And that, of course, was a clipfrom the original Hogan's
Heroes, which I have never seena full episode of but always got
the impression that Hogan wassort of a Ferris Bueller type,
while the Nazi Colonel Klink wasmore like the tragically uncool

(17:26):
principal that was alwaystrying to catch Ferris skipping
school.
Before the show's premiere, cbsholds a poolside press junket
for Hogan's Heroes with theentire cast in full wardrobe,
including the Nazis.
Bob sits down for an interviewfor a radio show with a man
named Mel Rosen, played by EdBegley Jr, where we learn that

(17:47):
Bob abstains from alcohol bychoice.
The interview ends ratherabruptly, however, when it is
revealed that the reporter isJewish and finds the premise of
Hogan's Heroes to be extremelyoffensive.
Offensive and a little sidenote here there was originally
going to be a drunken Hitler atthe CBS press party, but they

(18:09):
ultimately chose to cut thescene from the final film.

Ashley (18:11):
I don't have this in my part, but at this press party
CBS transformed this entirehotel into a replica of a
prisoner of war camp.
So there were people walkingaround dressed as Nazi guards,
there really was a drunkenHitler impersonator and at one
point a World War I plane flewover the swimming pool and
dropped leaflets promoting theshow.

Remi (18:34):
Wow, cbs really went all out for that production.
That's pretty impressive, butwas Hitler even on the show?
It seems weird to have Hitlerthere because as far as I know,
he wasn't a character on Hogan'sHeroes.

Ashley (18:47):
I think it was just because he's the leader of the
Nazi party and to kind of showthat it's not glorifying what
the Nazis did, but like makingthem out as buffoons.
That's the exact word I wasgoing to say.

Remi (19:05):
I was going to say.
After the uncomfortableinterview, Bob moseys over to
the pool and is brieflypropositioned by a beautiful
girl who is enticed by theprospect of sleeping with the
star of a new TV series.

Ashley (19:13):
This girl should hold her horses, because there are a
lot of failed pilots out there,and by pilots I mean the first
episode of a new series, notthose who fly planes.

Remi (19:23):
Back at home, anne confronts Bob about a stack of
adult magazines she found hiddenin their garage, but Bob
insists that he had onlypurchased the magazines because
of his interest in photography.
Likely story Anne admits thatshe had seen the magazines
before and chose to ignore them,but now insists that Bob remove

(19:44):
them from the house, to whichhe agrees.
Hogan's Heroes premiered onFriday, september 17, 1965 at
8.30pm, and when the Nielsenratings were released just four
days later, hogan's Heroes wasthe number one new show on
television and had reachednumber five out of 98 other
primetime series Simultaneously.

(20:06):
As the show's success continuesto grow, the initial
controversy surrounding theseries also begins to fade.
Having worked on many sitcomsmyself, I'd just like to
highlight that one of thebenefits of working on a
multi-camera show like this isthat it's probably the closest
thing in show business toworking a regular nine-to-five

(20:26):
job Mondays through Fridays.
For example, a typical shootingday for a show like how I Met
your Mother would often lastless than eight hours to film
almost an entire episode, whilesingle camera shows like the
Office can take significantlylonger to film because you have
to redo the setups foreverything and it just takes a
lot longer.

(20:46):
But for a show like this, itgives you a lot of free time on
your nights and weekends, whichwill come into play in just a
bit.
For Hogan's Heroes, mondayswere used for blocking and stage
positioning, tuesdays were forfilming exteriors, wednesdays
and Thursdays were for filminginteriors, then, fridays,
everyone would have a tablereading for the following week's

(21:07):
script.
One day, while strollingthrough the studio's backlot,
Bob casually strikes up aconversation with a man named
John Carpenter, played by WillemDafoe, who is installing some
hi-fi equipment.
In one of his co-stars'trailers, john boasts that he
can wire just about anything andproves his point by
demonstrating the pitch-perfectsound system he installed

(21:29):
himself in his very own sportscar.
After Bob mentions his interestin photography, john
enthusiastically suggests thatBob look into a brand new type
of camera called a VTR, whichbasically utilizes the same
process as photography, only forhome video recording, which did
not exist up until that point.

(21:49):
John himself is at theforefront of this new technology
, working for Sony as a pioneerand a salesman for its eventual
widespread use across the UnitedStates.
Before parting ways, john givesBob his business card and
suggests that he stop by a placecalled Salome's for a drink.
Later, to continue theirconversation, bob decides to
take John up on his offer, butis a bit surprised when he

(22:12):
arrives at Salome's and it turnsout to be a burlesque club.
Bob sees that John has alreadyarrived and is sharing a drink
with one of his fellow Hogan'sHeroes co-stars, richard Dawson,
played by Michael E Rogers.
The trio settle into one of thebooths to enjoy the show, but
it isn't long before Bob isrecognized by the drummer from

(22:33):
the house band, who asks for anautograph and comments on how he
had always enjoyed Bob'simpromptu drum solos back when
he was still on the radio.
One thing leads to another,until Bob is invited up on stage
to join the house band on drumsduring the next performer's
provocative act, to which Bobgleefully obliges.
And I wanted to get a clip ofsome of the drum solos that Bob

(22:58):
has in the movie, but thereweren't any online and I
actually couldn't find any ofthe real Bob Crane doing any as
well.
But apparently he was a veryaccomplished drummer.

Ashley (23:07):
Yes, he was very into drumming starting at a young age
, and you said that Greg Kinnearactually learned how to play
the drums for this.

Remi (23:14):
He did learn how to play the drums for this film, but he
said he never quite had it down.
So he tried his best, but Ithink he only had like two
months or something like that,which is not enough time to
master a musical instrument.

Ashley (23:27):
So any of the crazy drum solos are probably a double.

Remi (23:30):
Most likely, yeah.
Sometime later we find Bobcatching up with his family's
minister over lunch at Norm'sDiner, which I have also been to
.
This film is just full of LAspots that are really well known
to locals around town.
As the two enjoy their meals,bob confides that he has been
continuing to regularly play thedrums at burlesque shows all

(23:53):
over town without his wifeAnne's knowledge.

Ashley (23:56):
Slippery slope, Bob, slippery slope.

Remi (23:59):
Their conversation is briefly interrupted when an
attractive, starstruck femalefan recognizes Bob and asks for
a photo.
Bob is, of course, happy tocomply, as this type of
attention has now become aregular occurrence for him,
which he relishes every momentof.
Once the fan has left, bobreturns to his conversation,
where the minister cautions Bobabout the risks and temptations

(24:22):
that come with leading this kindof a double life.
One night after a performanceat the Classic Cat Club, bob is
sought out backstage by JohnCarpenter, who has to remind Bob
of who he is exactly.
After refreshing his memory, bobintroduces John to a pair of
burlesque dancers he had beenchatting with, and they all
agree to head on over to John'splace to check out some of his

(24:45):
new electronic equipment.
After arriving back at his home, john explains the intricate
details of his variouselectronics, including the VTR
camera, as Bob hangs on hisevery word, utterly fascinated
by this new technology.
Their female companions, on theother hand, are clearly very
bored by all the tech talk andsuggest putting on some music to

(25:08):
lighten the mood.
As Bob and John pour the girlssome drinks back in the kitchen,
john candidly inquires as towhich one of the girls Bob
intends on sleeping with thatnight and Bob responds by
spiking his own grapefruit juicewith a heavy pour of vodka.
And I am under the impressionthat Bob does not drink like
ever, and the fact that he isdoing so now is sort of a big

(25:32):
deal.

Ashley (25:32):
That's a nice little touch.
They added he rarely, rarely,rarely, ever drank, but when he
did, it was only vodka.

Remi (25:40):
This man had no problems with substance abuse or anything
like that.
It was just sexual addiction,which is, I think, kind of rare
in the entertainment industry.
Usually alcoholism or drugabuse and things like that also
accompany this sort of thing,but not Bob.
Once John and one of the girlshave made their way back to his
bedroom, bob and the remaininggirl awkwardly make conversation

(26:04):
, as Bob momentarily considersthe consequences his actions
could potentially have on hismarriage.
Should he decide to proceed.
After hesitating at first, bobdoes eventually relent and ends
up having sex with the exoticdancer.
During the second season ofHogan's Heroes, actress Cynthia
Lynn, who played Helga on theshow, was replaced by Patty

(26:26):
Olsen, who in this film isplayed by Maria Bello as the
character Hilda, helga Hilda.
They were pretty much dressedexactly the same too.
Not much of a difference inthese characters.

Ashley (26:36):
They were meant to be the same.
I don't know why they changedthe name, probably so people
wouldn't comment that it was adifferent actress, but they were
supposed to be the samecharacter.

Remi (26:46):
And, for reference, both of these female characters that
the two actresses portrayed looka lot like the woman from the
label of the non-alcoholic beerSt Paulie's Girl, if anyone has
ever seen those.
By the end of the second season,Hogan's Heroes was rated 17th
by the Nielsen ratings, and asBob's celebrity status continues
to grow additionally, so doeshis fan base.

(27:09):
Bob has also become a regularfixture around LA playing the
drums at burlesque clubs allover town, with John now acting
as Bob's permanent wingman,regularly recruiting women from
the audience for some late-nightfunny business back at his
place after the show.
Once there, the two men playout a carefully orchestrated

(27:29):
pickup routine involving thereenactment of popular Hogan's
Heroes scenes for the women'samusement.
This eventually leads into asexy photo shoot with Bob as the
cameraman, inevitablyculminating in copious amounts
of copulation, secretly beingrecorded on a hidden VTR camera.
And on a personal side notehere I just want to point out

(27:50):
that Willem Dafoe is totallyripped in these scenes, most
likely because he was filmingSpider-Man around the same time
as this, and it's just reallyunexpected to see him cut in all
of these scenes.

Ashley (28:03):
Yeah, whenever you see him, he's usually very, very
thin.

Remi (28:07):
I know he had a shirtless transformation scene in
Spider-Man, so I'm assuming hebulked up and was working out
for that scene specifically andit just happened to carry over
into this film.

Ashley (28:18):
Good timing, since he's probably at least partially nude
for a good portion of this.

Remi (28:23):
Anyway, at first Bob is totally clueless about John's
recordings, but once it isrevealed to him, Bob couldn't be
more excited to continuefilming their escapades.
The two men would often end upwatching the videos back
together late into the evening,long after the girls had already
departed.
Bob even purchases his own VTRcamera, which John helps to

(28:44):
install in Bob's home, under thepretext that the camera will be
used for recording home moviesof Bob's family and you'll
probably go into this in thetrue story.
But as far as I know, he didn'tdo this stuff in his own home,
it was primarily at hotels andJohn's house, as far as the film
portrayed it.

Ashley (29:06):
John's house as far as the film portrayed it Later.
He does do it in his house, butit's when he's touring, so it's
not his permanent residence.
It's these apartments that hewould rent out as he's touring
this dinner theater circuit.

Remi (29:15):
Okay, that makes a bit more sense.
Bob also begins having anaffair with his new co-star,
Patty, while he continuessleeping with other women on a
near-nightly basis.
Despite all of this, Bob isstill somehow viewed by the
public as an upstanding familyman who has been faithfully
married to his high schoolsweetheart for the past 15 years

(29:37):
.
Pr is quite a powerful thing.

Ashley (29:40):
And there's no social media, so there's no way for
people to really know that allthis is going on, unless it's
covered by a news story.

Remi (29:49):
And I also don't think that tabloids and things like
that were quite as big back thenas they were today.
They still existed, but notlike they do now.
Doors and has begun to questionher husband's loyalty due to
his constant neglect andcomplete lack of interest in
showing her any kind of physicalaffection.

(30:10):
And I think that is usually awarning sign that someone may be
cheating on their spouse whenthe physical intimacy just
ceases at a certain point.
I think that is a warning signfor some people, not everyone.
One night, while watching theirhidden camera footage back
together, bob happens to noticethat John had been fingering his
butthole during one of theirgroup sex parties.

(30:31):
Appalled that the rogue digitdid not belong to one of their
female companions, bob lashesout and calls John a pervert
before storming out of the house, vowing never to see him again.
Meanwhile, vtr technology hascontinued to improve and in time
Sony develops a new type ofcamera capable of recording in
color.

Ashley (30:51):
Game changer.

Remi (30:53):
Well, unfortunately, during one of Sony's
presentations of this newtechnology to potential
investors, it is revealed thatJohn is, in fact, colorblind and
unable to properly adjust thecolor settings for the new VTRs

(31:17):
resulting in John's terminationfrom the company from Tokyo,
every network, and you pull astunt like this, John leave, I'm
fired.

Auto Focus Clip (31:26):
Yeah, get out.
You can't do that.
It's done.
I've got the contacts.
Who do you think, got you thecelebrities?
I sold Vidicons to TommySmothers, dick Martin, bob Crane
.
I sold a VTO to Elvis.
Do I need to call security?

Ashley (31:48):
That really, really, really sucks.
I didn't see anything in mynotes or research of this about
him being colorblind, but thatdoesn't mean that it wasn't true
.
There's very little out thereabout John Carpenter Very, very,
very little.
So I'm going to operate underthe assumption that this is true
, and it does seem in the videohow it's portrayed that he

(32:09):
didn't know.

Remi (32:10):
This scene was actually added while they were already
filming the movie.
It was a bit of informationthat they found out about John
very, very late and PaulSchrader thought it was a key
bit of information to includeabout the character.
So they wrote up this scene andfilmed it kind of last minute

(32:30):
to include in the film and I dothink it adds a lot to the
character.
Despite Bob's promise never tospeak with John again, he is
soon eating his words afterBob's home VTR malfunctions and
he is forced to call John tocome over and fix it.
During the repairs, johnapologizes to Bob about the
incident and the two make amends, resulting in John inviting Bob

(32:53):
to a party up in the HollywoodHills later that evening.
And if you have been to LA orlived in LA, you know those
Hollywood Hills parties arecrazy.
At the party, naked women areeverywhere and free love is
running rampant as Bob playfullymingles with a few of his fans.
Before long, bob has his trustycamera out and is snapping

(33:16):
photos of all the lovely ladiesaround him.
Bob even begins a new pickuproutine that night, called the
Smile Photo, which involves Bobtaking pictures of women as they
flash the camera after askingthem to smile, how romantic.
That is something that reallystuck out to me.
From having not seen this moviefor a really long time.

(33:38):
I remember Greg Kinneardelivering that smile to all the
girls and it's so sleazy butfriendly.
It's a really good balance hemanages in this film, greg
Kinnear.
I know we've been saying WillMifo is outstanding, and
rightfully so, but Greg Kinnear,I think this is probably one of
his best performances.
In my opinion, bob alsodelivers the following monologue

(34:01):
, which I was unable to find aclip of, unfortunately, so we'll
be reading verbatim.
I'm a normal red-bloodedAmerican man.
I like to look at naked women.
I love breasts, any kind.
I love them.
Boobs, bazooms, balloons, bags,bazongas.
The bigger the better.
Nipples like udders, nippleslike saucers Big, pale, rosy,

(34:25):
brown nipples, little bitty babynipples Real or fake, what's
the difference?
I like tits.
Who's kidding who?
Tits are great.
Such a classy guy, bob.

Ashley (34:36):
Props to you for getting through that with a straight
face.
That is absolutely absurd.

Remi (34:42):
I really, really, really wanted to find a clip so I
didn't have to read it myself,but I think that tells you again
a lot about what's going on inthis character's head.
He's very one-track minded.
As time rolls on, bob and Pattycontinue to grow closer and
even begin having frequentdiscussions about Bob leaving
his wife Anne so that he andPatty can get married someday.

(35:04):
Patty also divulges that she isfully aware that Bob has been
sleeping with other women andholds no ill will towards Bob's
sexual proclivities, as long ashe is honest with her from that
point forward.
As long as he is honest withher from that point forward.
Sometime later, during aconversation between John and
Richard Dawson on the Hogan'sHeroes set, we learn a bit more

(35:25):
about Bob and John'srelationship, as well as Bob's
concerning lack of discretionregarding his infidelities
gentlemen,
I don't push, but you gottadraw her out, get her to talk
about herself, listen to herproblems, act like you give a
shit just to get her clothes off.
And then not even that.
That's life with the ladies.
Bobby just comes in with thatcrooked smile and gets his

(35:49):
strike on the frickin' lineevery time.
Bob's gotta be careful.
What do you mean?
I warned him.
He shows me his car full ofnudie pictures of him getting
sucked off.
I said Bob, you're a big star.
What happens if you get pulledover by the cops?
He did it on a virgin marriage.
He's standing right there.

(36:10):
If he could,richard, you are so
bad.

Ashley (36:13):
This is another part of the story that I omitted from my
portion.

Remi (36:18):
Because your original draft was 17 pages long.

Ashley (36:22):
Yes, that is why At the beginning, when Willem Dafoe is
explaining how he has to work toget women and Bob Crane, it
just comes naturally to him.
That was a dynamic that wasgoing on whenever he was with
Crane and Dawson because theywere famous, and a theory later
to help provide a potentialmotive.
Part of it was that there was ajealousy component because he

(36:45):
was kind of always the third orsecond fiddle to these famous
men.

Remi (36:50):
Celebrities garner attention.
People have seen their facesand the actors many times don't
know them.
So it can be a very, verypowerful, alluring thing being
known nationally from atelevision show or any type of
fame.
It's appealing to people.
People want to talk tocelebrities, people want to hang

(37:10):
out with them and party withthem.
Bob has also begun showing upto set, looking noticeably
haggard from his frequent latenight partying and while
shooting a scene.
One day Bob hallucinates thathe is actually a prisoner of war
, talking with real life Nazisabout his sex addiction, leading
to an orgy between Bob and theother cast members of Hogan's

(37:33):
Heroes, as John recordseverything from the sidelines
and Bob's family also watches.

Ashley (37:41):
I think this scene is supposed to represent two things
One, how preoccupied he hasbecome about sex, and two, how
there was internal discontentbetween his desire for these
recurrent sexual conquests andhis religion and view of himself
as a loving family man.

Remi (38:02):
And from the DVD commentary.
Both actors agreed that thisscene didn't turn out how
everyone wanted it to turn out.
But I think this scene couldhave worked if it was done a
little bit more realistic andless silly than it was.
But I appreciate the thoughtbehind the scene, but it doesn't
really work.
Upon returning home that night,bob discovers that his wife

(38:24):
Anne had found another secretstash of Bob's pornographic
magazines along with a box ofPolaroids from Bob's many
extramarital dalliances.
After their divorce, bobrelinquishes his house, car and
full custody of their childrenover to Anne, then marries Patty
not long after and I didn'tinclude this because I didn't

(38:45):
realize it was happening, butthey got married on the set of
Hogan's Heroes.
Bob and Patty did.

Ashley (38:50):
So romantic again.

Remi (38:52):
By the time Bob and Patty are expecting their first child
from the result of a leakyvasectomy, hogan's Heroes
officially comes to an end onJuly 4th 1971, after six seasons
and 168 episodes.
That is a lot of programming.
Unfortunately, this also meansthat Bob is now unemployed and

(39:13):
drowning in debt due to hisrecent divorce and ever-growing
family.
Bob continues going out withJohn on their late-night
sexcapades, despite their pickuproutines growing more and more
stale over time.
During one scene, john evenattempts to pick up a woman by
showing her his LED watch, whichhas an electronic face

(39:34):
depicting a digital animation oftwo people having sex.
You know what?

Ashley (39:47):
time it is, it's fuck time.
I mean, I guess you gottaappreciate that the man isn't
beating around the bush now, ishe?

Remi (40:06):
He's really going for it.
I mean, I could never imaginetrying to pick up a woman like
that.
But John has his style.
I guess he's not famous, so hereally has to be blunt about
what he's looking for.
And on a side note, that LEDwatch that John uses to entice
women in the scene is inspiredby an actual watch sold in the
back of pornographic magazinesin the 1970s to 1980s from a
company called Leisure TimeProducts.

(40:26):
However, unlike the watch inthe film, the original was
analog and retailed for themodern equivalent of $150.

Ashley (40:35):
Who would buy that?

Remi (40:37):
People buying watches that they see in the back of porno
magazines.
Back in the 70s apparentlyMaybe it was an untapped watch
market, I don't know Around thistime Bob is introduced to the
world of S&M by a dominatrix andgoes on to describe the
experience to John on camera asif it were a transcendent

(40:57):
experience.
Bob's acting career, on theother hand, still leaves much to
be desired.
So Bob reluctantly accepts arole performing with a traveling
dinner theater in asophisticated sex comedy called
Beginner's Luck.
Shortly after Bob's new gighits the road, he is joined by
John, along with cases uponcases of new filming equipment,

(41:19):
complete with the latesttechnology, which John calls a
videocassette Soon.
The two men have adapted theirold pickup routine for the
dinner theater crowd whoattended Bob's live performances
outside of LA, and the newroutine seems to be going pretty
well for them.
Bob has also begun toying withthe idea of producing his own

(41:41):
big-budget sex film and evenpurchases himself a
state-of-the-art penile implantto make his penis look slightly
thicker for his on-screenperformance.

Ashley (41:52):
That is some dedication.

Remi (41:54):
Agreed, but these plans are put on an indefinite hold.
However, after Disney offersBob the lead role in a new film
called Superdad, just asproduction begins, the National
Enquirer releases a series ofphotographs they took of Bob
patroning a local topless bar.
Bob's agent, lenny, firmlyadvises his client to keep a

(42:17):
lower profile and to be morediscreet now that Bob is working
for a family company likeDisney.
But old Bob still ain't worriedand just continues on having
his orgies without a damn carein the world.

Ashley (42:30):
I am actually shocked that Disney didn't pull the plug
on this, no matter how far theywere in production.

Remi (42:35):
I thought that's what the scene was leading to, was that
he was going to be fired fromthis film.
But no, they kept him, and Iguess this was one of the few
bits of photographs that got outabout him.
It's just him at a strip club.
There are a lot worse photos ofthis guy floating around, so he
should have felt very luckythat that was the only stuff

(42:56):
that they caught him on cameradoing.
Superdad is eventually releasedafter being delayed for nearly
a year, only to utterly flop atthe box office.
But on a funny side note, avery young Kurt Russell played
the daughter's boyfriend, bart,in the original Superdad film.
Bob continues returning to theroad and the world of dinner

(43:17):
theater after the film's failure, but Patty protests claiming
that Bob is never home anymoreand when he is home he's always
downstairs editing his sex tapeswhich is kind of funny that he
was editing his sex tapes too.
In response, bob half-heartedlyagrees to his wife's demands and
remains gainfully unemployedwithout access to his traveling

(43:38):
celebrity pickup routine.
John still pays Bob regularvisits during this time to show
off the latest and greatestinnovations in video recording
technology and to, of course,masturbate together while
watching old videotapes andreminiscing about the good old
days and, believe it or not,this was the scene that
convinced Willem Dafoe to do themovie.
And, believe it or not, thiswas the scene that convinced

(43:58):
Willem Dafoe to do the movie Intime.
Bob does eventually return foranother tour in dinner theater,
but with far less sexual successthan he had had previously.
Down but not out, bob has thebright idea to start editing
together his sex tapes toinclude random video clips from
Hogan's Heroes to screen forwomen with the intention of
getting them in the mood.
Because Hogan's Heroes toscreen for women with the

(44:19):
intention of getting them in themood.

Ashley (44:20):
Because Hogan's Heroes is what these women need.

Remi (44:24):
Something else I learned from the video commentary is
apparently the real videos thatBob Crane edited together had
clips from all sorts of popculture shows like Johnny Carson
, Saturday Night Live, like tonsof different stuff spliced
together with all the sex stuff.
But for the film they could notget the rights to anything, so

(44:44):
they could only include clipsfrom Hogan's Heroes and stock
footage, basically, andapparently Greg Kinnear was very
upset that they could not getthe rights to anything and he
thought the video that they usedin the film was really bad.
They could not get the rightsto anything.

Ashley (44:59):
And he thought the video that they used in the film was
really bad.
I didn't include this either,but when the police do get their
hands on his tapes that arefound in his apartment after his
murder spoiler alert they didfind intermingled with his sex
tapes like random video programsthat he taped, just like we
would in the old days when wewanted to see a show and
couldn't catch it, or when weknew it was going to be

(45:20):
something that we might want torewatch later.

Remi (45:23):
Bob Crane probably would have had a good editing career
on YouPorn today if he was stillalive.
But Bob doesn't stop there andfor a lark Bob creates a
separate tape with footage ofJohn carefully edited together
to imply that John is secretlygay.

Ashley (45:39):
Well, that's not very nice.

Remi (45:41):
I think it was because of the finger in the butthole thing
.
Bob never let that go.
When John is shown the tape,john takes Bob's insinuation
personally, leading to a verbalconfrontation.
As tensions run high, bobseizes the opportunity to remind
John that the only reason heever got laid was entirely due

(46:02):
to Bob's celebrity status.
I mean, it's true, but youshouldn't say it.
As the years continue, pattyfinally files for divorce after
a violent altercation and BobCrane desperately clings to
whatever stagnant fame he stillhas left.
Clings to whatever stagnantfame he still has left.
Outside of Bob's perpetualdinner theater role as Paul

(46:22):
Burnett in Beginner's Luck, bobhas been unable to secure any
other acting work outside of acelebrity guest spot on a local
Canadian cooking show which goespoorly after.
Bob makes repeated sexualinnuendos while commenting on an
audience member's breast size.
With his career now seeminglyin ruins, bob pays his old
friend Lenny one final visit ina desperate plea to find more

(46:46):
work.

I was wondering if you'd set some meetings up
for me.
Get in circulation a game show.
Do you remember the reaction Igot on Password?
I know Password is, you know,not on the air, no more, but
maybe Hollywood Squares, youknow something, just to get into
the public's eye.
Don't look like that.
Hey, I'm not talking about PaulLynn Square.

(47:12):
Any square is fine,we've talked about this, the
image problem,oh,
If I were to send you out again,I'd have to be able to tell
people you're a new .
Well, tell them, sex is normal,it's good for you, I'm normal.

Ashley (47:29):
This is a really good depiction of addiction.
Despite the negative impactsthat his sex addiction is having
on his personal life and hiscareer, he still isn't fully
ready to give it up because hehasn't quite yet hit rock bottom
.

Remi (47:47):
He still thinks that what he's doing is perfectly normal
and other people are unfairlyjudging him for these things.
I personally think that this isone of the most emotional parts
of the entire film.
Greg Kinnear does a stupendousjob in this scene, and you

(48:08):
really feel bad for Bob.
He really thinks that he isstill a good person and he's not
doing anything wrong, and hedoesn't understand why his life
is falling apart.
He just can't see the truthright in front of him, even when
everyone is telling him.

Ashley (48:26):
And I do want to point out here that we are in no way
saying that his alternative sexpractices are.
What is problematic, it's thefrequency at which he is
pursuing these things and thenegative impact it's having on
his life that is making thethings he is doing problematic.

Remi (48:44):
I think I have heard somewhere that it really becomes
an addiction when it starts tonegatively affect other areas of
your life that aren't a part ofthat, and that is clearly
what's going on with Bob, andhas been for a long, long time.

Ashley (49:01):
Yeah, big, big big part of diagnosing any sort of use
disorder or addiction is thatthe substance, which in this
case sex, is having asignificant negative impact on
someone's life and functioningor is causing them a high level
of distress, and in this bothare true.

(49:22):
While it's not distressing tohim in the moment, the
consequences of it is what iscausing him the distress and
impairment.

Remi (49:29):
Dejected Bob next attempts to reconnect with his estranged
teenage son, robert, from hisprevious marriage to Anne, but
the conversation feels strainedafter so many years of
separation and ends with apromise from Bob to turn his
life around for his son.
With no career, no family andno money, the only person that

(49:51):
Bob can turn to now is his oldfriend, john.
That is until it slowly beginsto dawn on Bob that John may be
the root of all of his problemsand soon comes to the conclusion
that he will need to separateJohn from his life as well.
As Bob and John sit leeringlyin the corner booth of a

(50:12):
sparsely populated discotheque,one night, bob breaks the news
that he plans on quitting dinnertheater once and for all in an
attempt to get his career backon track.
Bob additionally tells Johnoutright that he thinks that
they should take a break fromtheir routine together, but John
does not take the news verywell.

There, I said it.
What am I like?
A drag, a drag on your career.
Who's always been there for youwhen you were moping
complaining?
Oh, oh, oh, john, john, nobodywants to hire me Flying around
the country whenever you calledhauling your shit from the
airport, taking seconds.
I'm a drag.
Well, you're a fucking loser.

(50:55):
Bob Crane's a loser!I ain't a loser! Bob Crane ain't
a loser! It's you who broughtBob Crane down.
Bob Crane is a good guy.
Bob, let's not do this, please.

Ashley (51:08):
I will say I think it is a little unfair for Bob to say
that John dragged him down.
John didn't make him doanything he didn't want to do,
but together, together, theirfriendship is clearly toxic.

Remi (51:22):
Agreed.
It is a toxic relationship andin addiction, when people are
trying to get clean and sober,one of the biggest steps is
cutting ties with those peoplethat you used to share your
addiction with, which is clearlywhat Bob is trying to do here.
Later that very same night, asBob Crane lay sleeping in bed, a

(51:44):
shadowy figure quietly slipsinto Bob's Arizona hotel room
undetected.
Then, in a brutal act ofviolence, the mystery assailant
bludgeons Bob to death with anearby tripod, before vanishing
back into the night.
The Scottsdale police arecalled in the following morning
and through voiceover, bobreflects on how poorly his

(52:05):
murder investigation was handled.
John Carpenter was, of course,the prime suspect, but since the
crime had occurred before theinnovation of modern DNA testing
, the local police departmentchose not to prosecute after
claiming that they didn't have astrong enough case.
14 years later, a new districtattorney finally took the case

(52:26):
to trial, but by then much ofthe evidence had been lost to
time, resulting in John'sacquittal.
John Carpenter passed away froman apparent heart attack just
four years later, and that wasPaul Schrader's autofocus.
What do you think, ashley?

Ashley (52:42):
I really enjoyed the clips of this that you showed me
.
It seems that both actorsreally gave it their all and
embodied these characters thatthey were portraying, and I also
am astounded by the amount ofattention to detail and research
that went into this.
I have a feeling that the factthat they spoke to Bob's two

(53:04):
sons and had the older one, whowas the one that had the closest
relationship with him, justbecause of age he was about 27.

Remi (53:12):
Robert, the son Robert, I believe.

Ashley (53:14):
He was about 27 when his dad was murdered.

Remi (53:27):
He was about 27 when his dad was murdered and I think
having him involved in thisreally gave them a lot of inside
scoop into both of these men.
For Greg Kinnear and WillemDafoe is brilliant here In that
scene that we just played foryou all.
He has so much emotion on hisface when he's talking to Bob.
He's yelling at him, but hisface is so sad, he's so good.

(53:49):
I've said it a million times inthis episode because I probably
won't get another chance totalk about Willem Dafoe again,
but yeah, the acting in thismovie is amazing.
My only complaint is that itkind of ends rather abruptly.
Bob Crane dies and there'smaybe a paragraph of voiceover
and then that's it the end.
I was left wanting more.

(54:10):
I didn't think that the storywas fully over when they ended
it, but I still think the filmwas, for the subject matter,
pretty tastefully done and had abalance of drama and comedy.
That is a difficult tightropeto walk and I think it pulled it
off and I really do enjoy thisfilm and recommend it for anyone

(54:31):
out there who feels comfortablewatching this sort of thing.

Ashley (54:34):
The tastefully done was also something I was going to
point out.
This could have turned intoNC-17 really tacky, really,
really, really, really easily,and it sounds like that was
completely avoided, which inpart has to be due to the
director.

Remi (54:52):
I have a little bit of behind the scenes stuff here For
the beginning half of the film,stuff here For the beginning
half of the film.
The majority of the women thatthey hired for the roles of the
women that Bob and John weresleeping with were porn stars
modern day porn stars becausethey were more willing to be
naked and that sort of thing.
But Willem Dafoe actuallycommented that none of the women

(55:16):
looked like real women from the70s.
They all had breast implants,they all had cosmetic surgery
and Willem Dafoe was prettyadamant about we need to get
women that look like they werefrom the 70s.
They can't all be beautiful,they can't all just be porn
stars.
And after Willem Dafoe hadbrought that to the director's
attention, there is a differencein women throughout the rest of

(55:38):
the film.
They look more like everydaywomen instead of porn stars.
And I guess it was also veryimportant to Greg Kinnear to
emphasize that this guy wasn'tjust having sex with beautiful
women every single night, he washaving sex with any woman.
And though it was brought intothe film late, I do admire the
fact that Willem Dafoe foundthat necessary to point out and

(56:02):
they did correct it, even thoughit was halfway through
production.

Ashley (56:05):
And even though it was halfway through production, I
think it's probably pretty finebecause of his fame.
He was primarily with womenthat he would meet at exotic
dance clubs or burlesque clubsor sex workers, and then it was
when he started going on thedinner theater tour circuit that
he was in all of these citiesand it was just really whoever

(56:27):
he could pick up at the localwatering hole that night.

Remi (56:31):
Now that you mentioned it, that is when the difference
takes place is when he startsdoing dinner theater and
traveling the country outside ofLos Angeles.
So it does make sense withinthe context of the film too.
Well, with that, are you readyto get into the release part of
this film?

Ashley (56:47):
Yes, I sure am.

Remi (56:49):
Autofocus premiered at the Toronto International Film
Festival before going on to havea limited release on just 11
screens in the United States.
When all was said and done, thefilm had earned just $2.7
million at the global box office, against a $7 million budget,

(57:10):
in stark contrast to anotherWillem Dafoe film released that
same year called Spider-Man.
This movie actually came out, Ithink, six months before
Spider-Man hit the scene andofficially made Willem Dafoe a
big name actor.

Ashley (57:26):
When it's playing on only 11 theater screens, you
can't expect a large return.

Remi (57:32):
This movie really went under the radar when it was
released and I am surprised thatthis movie didn't get any
Academy Award nominations,especially in the acting
category.
But the film currently holds anapproval rating of 71% on
Rotten Tomatoes, with a criticalconsensus that reads Kinnear
and Defoe help make thisdownward spiral of one man's

(57:55):
life a compelling watch.
Paul Schrader went on to benominated for the Golden
Seashell at the San SebastianInternational Film Festival,
while Willem Dafoe was nominatedfor Best Supporting Actor by
the Chicago Film CriticsAssociation.
One person who was not a fan ofthe film, however, was Bob

(58:15):
Crane's other son, scotty, whohas made repeated public
statements throughout the yearslambasting the film for being
inaccurate.

Ashley (58:24):
Which take what he says with a grain of salt, because he
was seven years old when hisfather died, so of course he's
not going to know a lot aboutwhat was going on, and anything
he really is going to know isgoing to come from his mom.

Remi (58:39):
Well, in an October 2002 article, scotty claimed that his
father had not been a regularchurchgoer and had actually only
attended three church servicesin the past 12 years, including
his own funeral.
Scotty also alleges thatdirector Paul Schrader included

(59:00):
the S&M scene based onSchrader's own personal
experiences, and that there wasnever any evidence that Bob
Crane had ever engaged in S&M.
I will let you tell me if thatpart is true later.
Scotty additionally contendedthat his father didn't become
close friends with JohnCarpenter until around 1975, and

(59:21):
that Crane's struggles with sexaddiction, as well as his habit
of recording the encounters,may have actually started as
early as 1956, long before hisfather had become famous.
I'm going to call bullshit onthat one, because John was the
electronics guy.
You mean to tell me Bob startedthis before meeting John.
I find that hard to believe.

Ashley (59:41):
Again.
He was seven when his dad died.

Remi (59:44):
Well, much of Scotty's bitterness towards the film
could also be due to the factthat Scotty and his mother had
written their own script for afilm based on Crane's life
called F-Stop, which is a cameraterm and a sex term as well.
Double entendre very clever,but once autofocus was announced
, all interest in Scotty'sscript seemed to dissipate.

Ashley (01:00:08):
I read that they had two running titles that they were
willing to go with F-Stop orTake Off your Clothes and Smile.
I'll say F-Stop was a bitbetter.

Remi (01:00:18):
It should have been take off your clothes and smile, but
okay, they're both not greattitles, but that was Paul
Schrader's autofocus and thestory of a sitcom celebrity's
tragic downward spiral intoaddiction and murder.
It's a pretty insane story and,again, I did not know a lot

(01:00:38):
about Bob Crane before, but Iknow a lot of people who were
fans of the real Bob Crane weredevastated to find out that all
of this stuff was going on.
I know a lot of the stuff Iread online.
People who were fans of BobCrane try watching this movie
and many of them can't getthrough it because it depicts
someone that they were such abig fan of in this light and it

(01:01:01):
can be difficult to separate anactor from the character that
they are playing on screen, andI think that this is one of the
more interesting examples of aperson's on-screen presence
being the total opposite of whothey were off-screen.
But that's only the movie sideof things, ashley.

(01:01:22):
I want to know what reallyhappened.
Can you shed some light on thetrue story of Bob Crane?
I sure can so that was of course, the real Hogan's Heroes theme

(01:02:02):
from the old TV show, but I justwant to point out that in
autofocus the producers refusedto pay CBS any royalties to use
the original Hogan's Heroestheme song.
So in the film it's actuallyjust a generic ripoff, and Greg
Kinnear and Will Nifo were nothappy about that either.
But, ashley, take it awayplease.

Ashley (01:02:22):
Robert Edward Crane was born in Waterbury, connecticut,
on July 13th 1928.
He became interested in musicat a young age and by the time
he was 11, he was playing thedrums in a musical group and
organizing local drum and bugleparades with his neighborhood
friend.
In high school he played on theorchestra, marching and jazz

(01:02:43):
bands, in addition to youthorchestra programs for the
Norwalk and Connecticut Symphony.
He spent two years in theConnecticut Army National Guard
before he was honorablydischarged in 1950.
The year prior he married hishigh school sweetheart, anne.
The couple remained married for21 years and had three children
together Robert David DeborahAnne and Karen Leslie Crane

(01:03:07):
started his career as a radiopersonality at a New York
station in 1950.
Shortly after he moved to adifferent one in Connecticut and
stayed there for six years.
In 1956, he received a phonecall from a top-rated CBS-owned
station in LA.
Turns out his radio show inConnecticut was so popular that
it was impacting the ratings ofhis former New York station.

(01:03:29):
So the executives called LA andtold them they knew just the
man for the open position.
In LA.
Crane scored guests likeMarilyn Monroe, frank Sinatra
and Bob Hope.
He had a personality made forthe spotlight.
He was affable, funny, laidback, outgoing, friendly,
professional and sober.

Remi (01:03:49):
A likable guy as he is described as in the movie.

Ashley (01:03:52):
It wasn't long before his radio show was number one
rated and he became known as theking of the LA airwaves.
And here's a little clip of aradio spot of Bob Crane

Bob Crane (01:04:07):
oh boy, with that enthusiastic opening there from
Roger Gallagher, I don't knowwhere we go from here.
A very happy, good evening.
This is Bob Crane, and actuallyI do know where we're going
from here.
We have Bobby Troop in the livegroup with us again tonight.
We have Lynn Franklin to singand our in-person guest, jerry
Wald, who we'll be getting to injust a moment.
Before we do anything, though,I better introduce myself in, as

(01:04:28):
much as I have only been outhere on the West Coast for about
three and a half years.
We did a show back east and wewere sent out here.
We moved out, we being myfamily, my wife and son and my
mother-in-law.
It was the usual package dealwhen you come to California and
you know, living back there is acompletely different way of
life.
Unless you have lived inCalifornia, you don't know what
it's like out here.

Ashley (01:04:49):
Crane wanted to be an actor as much as he wanted to be
on the radio.
For the first few years heagreed to every personal
appearance presented to himwhich panned out as he was
offered guest appearances onprograms like the Ed Sullivan
Show, alfred Hitchcock Presentsand the Tonight Show.

Remi (01:05:06):
So he was a working actor basically.

Ashley (01:05:09):
And a lot of these, like on the Tonight Show and stuff
he would play the drum.
He also started guest hostingJohnny Carson's TV game show
called who Do you Trust.
In 1962, he convinced aproducer to give him a single
episode guest spot on the DickVan Dyke Show.
After seeing his performance,donna Reed offered him a
recurring role on her program,the Donna Reed Show.

(01:05:31):
Crane left the show two yearslater due to a pay dispute, but
not long after he was cast asthe lead on a new show CBS was
developing Hogan's Heroes.
From April to August 1965,crane worked two jobs.
He woke up at dawn to be in thestudio in time for the 6 am
radio show taping.
Then it was straight over tothe Hogan's Heroes set to film

(01:05:53):
the day's scenes.

Remi (01:05:54):
I want to point out again this is exactly like Ryan
Seacrest.
He does his radio show in themorning and then goes off to do
American Idol at night.
So a lot of similarities, Ifeel, between those two.

Ashley (01:06:06):
It sounds so grueling personality types.

Remi (01:06:19):
yeah, you just have to be everywhere.
It's all about exposure andgetting yourself out there.
And yeah, I just couldn'timagine being on this much,
having to have this personalityall day, every day, but it came
really naturally to Bob.

Ashley (01:06:29):
During these months.
Rarely was he home before seveno'clock and even if he was, he
studied the next day's scriptbefore he passed out.
This schedule persisted untilthe show premiered in September
1965, but he continued to be thefirst person on set and the
last to leave throughout theshow's production.
Hogan's Heroes was an overnightsensation.

(01:06:49):
Out of 98 primetime programs itranked fifth, and first of all
the new shows that premieredthat year.
By the end of the first seasonit was the ninth most popular
show and the sixth for CBS.
Crane's performance scored himtwo Emmy nominations for
Outstanding ContinuedPerformance by an Actor in a
Comedy Series in 1966 and 1967.

(01:07:10):
Now the show certainly wasn'twithout its critics.
For the first year, the networkreceived hate mail from three
primary groups people of Jewishdescent, germans and the
American Nazi Party.
But it fizzled out after thefirst season.

Remi (01:07:24):
Probably one of the very few things those three groups
have ever agreed upon.

Ashley (01:07:29):
Random fact, there were three cast members of the show
Robert Cleary, Werner Klempererand John Banner.
They had direct ties to WorldWar II.
Two fled to the States asrefugees and another was
interned in a concentration campfor three years.
Crane's newfound fame wasn'twithout problems.
It impacted his marriage and hestarted to seek out sexual

(01:07:51):
outlets like pornography,nightclubs and exotic dancers in
search for relief from hisheavy workload.
He also started having anaffair with his co-star Cynthia
Lynn, who was replaced after thefirst season with Patricia
Olsen.

Remi (01:08:05):
That part was left out.
He only had the affair withPatty in the film.

Ashley (01:08:09):
Patty moved to LA with her daughter while in the
process of getting a divorce in1963 and enrolled in acting
classes.
She is one of the few luckyones who got work right away in
a Frank Sinatra and Dean Martinfilm, followed by several other
small roles, before being hiredon to Hogan's Heroes.
Crane didn't seem upset aboutthe casting change and set his

(01:08:30):
sights on his new co-star.
The couple married on the setof the show, with co-star
Richard Dawson serving asCrane's best man in October 1970
, just four months after hisdivorce from Anne was finalized.
Patty retired from acting aftertheir son, robert Scott, was
born in 1971.
They also adopted a daughtersoon after.

(01:08:50):
Patty wasn't the only personthat Hogan's Heroes brought into
Crane's stratosphere.
People were often minglingaround the open set, which is
how Richard Dawson came tointroduce Crane to his friend,
john Henry Carpenter.
Carpenter was born in LA onJune 24, 1928.
After he retired from the army,he took a job marketing video
tech, became an expert in thefield and was hired as a

(01:09:13):
regional sales manager for Sonywhen it was first introduced to
the US market.
The trio shared two commoninterests video equipment and
women.
Carpenter maintained afriendship with both men after
the relationship between Craneand Dawson started to sour
something he hid from both ofthem In March 1970, cbs CEO Bill

(01:09:34):
Paley.
Do you remember who Bill Paleyis?
Remy Bill.

Remi (01:09:36):
Paley.
Do you remember who Bill Paleyis?
Remy Babe, Paley's husband.
Coming back to the Swans andTruman Capote it all comes full
circle.

Ashley (01:09:44):
Somehow every road leads back to Truman Capote,
tangentially.
Right, I mean, it's kind ofcrazy at this point.
We've had so many referencesback, it's nuts.
Well, during this month, billwent to a program meeting to
discuss the future of thenetwork.
Profits were down, ads werebeing sold at half price and
Congress's recent ban oncigarette TV advertising

(01:10:06):
resulted in tremendous revenuelosses Per the board.
Cbs had become a network forthe aging.
The audience was primarilycomprised of older, rural, lower
SES audiences, which wasunattracted to advertisers who
wanted to market to youngerpeople with more buying power.

Remi (01:10:23):
I believe that CBS has that same reputation still today
.

Ashley (01:10:28):
As a result, the president of the company called
for a complete overhaul of theprimetime schedule, which
included cutting shows that hadbeen on the air for a while,
since it meant the audienceswere naturally older and they
were also more expensive toproduce due to annual salary
increases.
At the end of the 1971 season,hogan's Heroes and other

(01:10:48):
award-winning shows such as theEd Sullivan Show, lassie and the
Beverly Hillbillies werereplaced with new programs like
On the Family and the Mary TylerMoore Show, replaced with new
programs like All in the Familyand the Mary Tyler Moore Show.
After six seasons and 168episodes, it left the network on
April 4th 1971.
Crane flailed for a bit afterthe show was canceled.
He was still being offeredplenty of roles, but most were

(01:11:11):
similar to his character onHogan's Heroes, so he turned
them down to avoid beingtypecast.
In 1972, he briefly returned toradio doing Big Band and Frank
Sinatra specials.
He also hosted local shows,taped radio spots, did stage
work and recorded someunsuccessful pilots, but his
image remained the same.
Despite his reduced work, hecontinued to receive royalty

(01:11:34):
checks from Hogan's heroes.
You see, crane was smart.
In lieu of annual raises, heasked for a profit percentage
increase and higher royaltyrates, while the other actors
were only paid residuals for thefirst 10 reruns by 1976, his
royalties were sometimes as highas six figures.

Remi (01:11:53):
That is a very, very smart move by Bob.
What is the old saying?
Take the gross, not the net.

Ashley (01:11:59):
Yeah, so it took him a while to start getting enough
money to live on off of thesechecks, but when he did, these
royalty checks continuedthroughout the rest of his life.

Remi (01:12:10):
Many sitcom actors.
There is a certain episodelevel that you need to get to.
It might be different withstreaming these days, but many
actors can literally live off ofone role they played on a TV
show from the royalty checksthat they'll be receiving for as
long as that show is playing.
They're going to be getting acheck, so it is a pretty amazing

(01:12:33):
continuous source of income foractors.

Ashley (01:12:36):
I know.
The big one that comes to mindis the Friends actors.
They all banded togetherbecause they insisted that they
were all on the same playingfield, and so they all
negotiated their contractstogether to always include these
royalty payments.
And I don't know how much theymake, but I know it's a lot
because Friends is everywhere.
In 1973, Crane purchased therights to a theater production

(01:12:58):
called Beginner's Luck and begantouring it through the windmill
dinner theater chain.

Remi (01:13:03):
So he actually owned the rights to Beginner's Luck.

Ashley (01:13:06):
Yeah, he purchased it and he was really the one to be
kind of the face of it.
He was the star and, like theunofficial director.

Remi (01:13:14):
That puts that whole thing in a little bit of a different
perspective for me, knowing thetruth, the show toured all
across the states in month-longresidencies from 1973 until his
death in 1978.

Ashley (01:13:27):
The production premiered in Scottsdale, Arizona, on June
26, 1973.
While there, he had a sexualrelationship with 19-year-old
Brenda Broyles and I say hername because I'm going to
mention her again later.
At the time she was a sexworker and an aspiring model in
the process of getting a divorce.
Shortly after their interaction, some people said Crane seemed

(01:13:49):
on high alert, constantlylooking over his shoulder.
Out of fear, her estrangedhusband hired someone to follow
him.
The situation was sonerve-wracking for him that he
was reluctant to return to thecity for a second run five years
later.

Remi (01:14:02):
I want to just add that in many of the interviews with
Greg Kinnear regarding this film, they would ask him if he
thought that John had killed Bob, and he always answered the
same.
I think he had a lot of enemies, he slept with a lot of women
that were married and he did alot of things to a lot of people

(01:14:23):
that John is the number onesuspect, but there are a lot of
other people who were very madat Bob.

Ashley (01:14:29):
Or had reason to be mad, at the very least.
In between theater stints,Crane continued to take up
acting gigs.
Most notably, NBC premiered theBob Crane Show in March 1975,
but it was canceled after 13episodes and three months later.
He also starred in two floppedDisney movies 1974's Superdad

(01:14:50):
and 1976's Gus.

Remi (01:14:52):
They did not bring up Gus in the film.
I wonder what Gus was about.

Ashley (01:14:56):
I looked up the ratings on Rotten Tomatoes and both
flopped.

Remi (01:15:01):
From what I saw of Superdad, I can't imagine that
Gus was any better.

Ashley (01:15:06):
Throughout these years, crane started getting some bad
press for his off-screenactivities.
Stories circulated about hishigh sexual appetite,
alternative sex practices andhow frequently he was seen
chatting up women in clubs andbars.
His sexual exploits were commonknowledge within his social
circle.
As he was pretty open about hisprivate life, a typical night

(01:15:27):
consisted of him going out todinner, often with friends, and
seeking out women for casualsexual encounters.
He reportedly had a dominatrixin San Francisco, paid for the
construction of several sexdungeons, although his son,
scotty, later disputed this, asyou mentioned, and took out ads
on swinger club mailing listsacross the country.
If he liked a response, hewould catch the first flight and

(01:15:50):
meet with them.
Given his love of videoequipment, he had a large
collection of homemadepornographic movies and photo
albums with Polaroid pictures ofwomen in various states of
address.
It was not uncommon for him toshow his houseguests this
material describing in detailwhere the women were from and
what sex acts he did with themOn tour.

(01:16:10):
His rented apartments were barebones, with the exception of
his camera equipment, videos,photo albums and elaborate photo
development lab he constructedin the bathroom.

Remi (01:16:21):
This guy is just falling deeper and deeper and deeper
into this.

Ashley (01:16:26):
It was described that if you walked into his apartment
you would see those things andotherwise everything else was in
a suitcase.
There were no personal photosof friends or family, it was
just anything having to do withvideo and sex, and everything
else was stored away.

Remi (01:16:42):
Yeah, he was clearly obsessed and that's all he could
focus on.

Ashley (01:16:45):
John Carpenter's job as a video sales and repairman
meant he was pretty much free totravel whenever he wanted.
He arranged his schedule tomatch Crane's so that he did a
repair job where Beginner's Luckwas touring, charged the trip
to his company card and spenthis free time with Crane, often
staying with him in two-bedroomrental apartments.
Crane got while on tour,although he was married and also

(01:17:08):
had a 15-year-old girlfriendnamed Rita.
He was an active participantduring all the swinger parties
and orgies.
There were also Polaroids andvideos depicting sex acts
involving the men and otherwomen.
Creighton's marriage to Pattywas also having serious problems
during this time.
By the mid-1970s, they werehaving frequent screaming

(01:17:28):
matches, some of which turnedviolent.

Remi (01:17:30):
Did he hide this from Patty?
I don't know if that wasclarified.

Ashley (01:17:35):
I don't think he like broadcasted it to her, but I do
think it was common knowledge.

Remi (01:17:41):
Like she knew of it, but she may not have known the
extent.

Ashley (01:17:45):
Possibly I'm not really sure what she did or didn't know
, but at least at the beginningof their relationship she did
know and per Carpenter.
So take this with a grain ofsalt she was okay with, like the
group sex stuff, but it was theone-on-one affairs that she
didn't want him to do becausethat seemed like it would be an
opportunity for him to develop amore intimate connection.

(01:18:06):
Per Crane's side of the family,patty, was controlling,
physically abusive and hated hisfirst family.
In her filing for divorce inlate 1977, she reportedly
alleged that Crane harassed,slapped and screamed at her,
accused him of showingsix-year-old Scotty pornography,
said he forced her to make asex tape and claimed his oldest

(01:18:28):
daughter was a sex worker, brokeScotty's arm and may have had a
sexual relationship with herfather.
Obviously, everyone except forPatty denied every aspect of
these claims.
Obviously, everyone except forPatty denied every aspect of
these claims.
Most said that she was thephysical aggressor and she did
make a sex tape with him.
Crane says that she did itcompletely willingly because she
knew that he would be into it.

(01:18:49):
Crane started 1978 in New Yorkas a guest on a show called
Celebrity Cooks.
During the taping he allegedlymade tasteless jokes about women
and his death before tearfullytalking about his deteriorating
marriage.
However, the producers of theshow and the staff denied these
accusations after his death andinsisted that they would have

(01:19:09):
stopped the taping if anythinglike that happened.
Regardless of what went down,the episode never saw the light
of day as it was set to air afew weeks after his death.
The next few months went on asusual.
Crane continued to tour withBeginner's Luck, fielded
constant phone calls from Pattyand attended a premiere of an
X-rated film with Carpenter.
While there, they approachedthe promoter to talk about

(01:19:31):
producing adult films.
49-year-old Crane and the castof Beginner's Luck arrived in
Scottsdale for a month-longstint on June 5th 1978.
Around this time his accountanttold him he was on shaky
financial ground, which didn'tmake much sense since he was
making anywhere from $100,000 to$250,000 annually, which
included his royalties fromHogan's Heroes.

(01:19:52):
In March 1981, close to threeyears after Crane's murder, his
accountant pled no contest tostealing $75,000 from his client
, was ordered to pay $108,000 inrestitution to the estate and
was sentenced to a year of jailplus five years of probation.
Despite this upsetting financialnews, crane was in the process

(01:20:12):
of making several positive lives.
He had accepted the end of hismarriage and was not interested
in Patty's reconciliationattempts.
He was also weeks away fromsigning a contract with ABC for
a movie of the week and waspreparing to move into a house
with 27-year-old son.
Robert Carpenter arrived inScottsdale early evening on July
25, 1978, a day after his 50thbirthday.

(01:20:34):
Crane picked him up from theairport and drove him to his
motel that was half a block awayfrom the apartment that Crane
picked him up from the airportand drove him to his motel that
was half a block away from theapartment that Crane had rented.
So this was kind of unusual.
It was the first time theystayed in separate places.
Usually, whenever Carpenterwould come and visit, they would
stay together, but this timeCrane insisted that Carpenter
get his own place.

Remi (01:20:53):
Is there any mention of a falling out between the two?

Ashley (01:20:57):
I'll get to that shortly , but this fact that they
weren't staying together is kindof indication of Crane's
intention to separate himself.
Wednesday, june 28th 1979started out like any other.
Carpenter went with Crane to aphoto shoot at 10 am, then spent
the afternoon swimming inCrane's pool while Crane was
with another woman.

(01:21:17):
Both men went to the showing ofBeginner's Luck that night.
The cast would later recallthat Crane seemed low-energy and
as if something were botheringhim.
A group left the theater around10 o'clock for drinks, as was
their custom.
First Crane needed to drop hiscar off at a service station,
since his tire was flat.
Upon inspection, after Craneand Carpenter left in

(01:21:39):
Carpenter's rental car, theservice attendant noticed that
the tire valve was almostcompletely off, leaving him to
think that it had been tamperedwith.
He was so suspicious that hestopped work on the vehicle.
Investigators would latersuspect that the tire was
purposefully flattened in anattempt to strand Crane alone in
the parking lot.
After drinks the two menbriefly went back to Crane's

(01:22:01):
apartment around 11 and leftagain for his favorite hangout
spot around 1145, after a heated20-minute phone call with Patty
.
While there they met a fewwomen and plans were made to
meet another at a differentlocation.
Crane and Carpenter separatedwith their dates shortly after
one.
This is also something that waspointed out.
That was unusual.

(01:22:21):
Usually when they went to pickup women, they stayed together
the whole night, but this timeCrane insisted that he was going
to go off with his date awayfrom Carpenter.
They both hung out separatelywith their dates for a bit, with
both returning to theirrespective homes alone sometime
around 2 and 2.30 in the morning.
There's no question thatCarpenter was the last person to
talk to Crane, but no one willever know how that conversation

(01:22:43):
went.
Per Carpenter.
He called Crane to briefly talkabout what happened when they
separated.
He also said he told Crane thathe would get himself to the
airport in the morning for hisflight back home to LA, since he
knew Crane had an afternoonspeaking engagement scene is in

(01:23:05):
the film with Willem Dafoetalking to Bob Crane on the
phone and John is gropinghimself while he is talking to
Bob on the phone, based on laterinterviews with Robert.
During Carpenter's visit toScottsdale, crane called his son
and told him that he was tiredof Carpenter always hanging
around and intended to severtheir friendship, at least for a
while.
The fact that all meetingsbetween the two after June 28th
were crossed out in Crane's datebook provided some cooperation

(01:23:28):
of this.
This led investigators tobelieve that the last
conversation between the two menwas far from a friendly one.
The next morning Carpenterchecked out of his motel around
8.30 in the morning.
The motel manager later toldpolice that he seemed agitated,
nervous and in a rush.
When he returned his rental car, he said it needed to be
repaired due to issues with thebrake and interior lights.

(01:23:50):
Around 2pm Crane's co-star,victoria Berry, arrived at his
apartment to check on him, sincehe missed a television luncheon
at noon, which was unlike him.
She was a bit surprised to findthat the door was unlocked,
since he was notorious foralways locking the deadbolt and
knob almost instinctivelywhenever he went in or out of
his house.
At first nothing seemed out ofthe ordinary.

(01:24:13):
There was no sign of a struggleor forced entry.
But that all changed when shewent into the blood-ridden
bedroom.
Laying in the bed was a manwith an electrical cord tied
around his neck and beaten sobadly that his face was
unrecognizable.
Police arrived at the scene 20minutes later.
They quickly determined thecord around Crane's neck was cut
.
From his video equipment theyalso noticed a long, thin stain

(01:24:36):
of blood on the sheet, whichalmost looked like the murder
weapon had been wiped clean.
Robbery was quickly ruled outas a motive, since nothing
seemed to be missing and none ofthe neighbors that were home
heard anything out of theordinary.
The autopsy was started at thescene, which is highly unusual.
While shaving a portion ofCrane's head to get a closer
look at the wounds, the examinerbrushed a darker hair into the

(01:24:59):
later discarded clippings.
This process was captured onvideo, but it would be a dozen
years before anyone realizedthat this hair had existed.
A white, flaky substance wasalso found on Crane's inner
thigh, which they presumed wasdried semen, but it was not
preserved or tested for unclearreasons.
The examiner determined Cranedied from blunt force trauma to

(01:25:22):
the head and that the ligaturewas tied post-mortem.
Since there were no defensivewounds or signs of forced entry,
it was hypothesized that Cranewas asleep when he was killed or
that he felt comfortable enoughwith his killer.
While all this was going on,carpenter made a few phone calls
.
The first two were to thewindmill theater asking for
Crane.
The third was to Robert to seehow he was doing and the final

(01:25:44):
one was to Crane's apartment.
When police answered, carpentersaid he was with Crane last
night and last spoke to himaround 1.30 am.
He did not ask why police wereat his best friend's home.
Carpenter called the ScottsdalePolice Department early the
next morning seeking informationabout the case.
At this point the death hadbeen announced next morning,
seeking information about thecase.

(01:26:04):
At this point the death hadbeen announced.
He left a message clarifyingthat he last spoke to Crane at
2.45, not 1.30, provided a longlist of women he knew.
Crane met in Arizona andtheorized that a disgruntled
ex-husband was responsible forhis friend's death.
Later in the day the results ofthe autopsy confirmed the cause
of death and placed it around 3o'clock in the morning.

Remi (01:26:23):
The results of the autopsy confirmed the cause of death
and placed it around 3 o'clockin the morning.
Did they reveal what the murderweapon was?
Was it a tripod?

Ashley (01:26:29):
I'll get to that later.
Initially they assumed it was atire.
Iron Police tracked downCarpenter's rental car and found
it curious that there wasnothing wrong with the lights,
as he claimed, when he returnedit.
Although nothing seemed out ofthe ordinary at first glance,
closer inspection revealed whatappeared to be dried blood on
the interior and exterior of thepassenger door, on a seatbelt

(01:26:51):
strap and within a three-inchlong scratch about two inches
below the passenger window.
The scratch was thought to becaused by the murder weapon in a
haste attempt to toss it outthe window.
In 1978, the only type of DNAtesting available was blood
typing, so this means they coulddetermine what type of blood it
was, but not who it belonged to.

(01:27:12):
Interestingly, the blood typein the car was type B, which is
pretty rare, as only about 11%of the population, including Bob
Crane, have it.

Remi (01:27:22):
This is some pretty damning evidence.

Ashley (01:27:24):
Law enforcement quickly met with everyone who came into
contact with the car, includingpast drivers, passengers and
rental staff.
Thankfully the car was brandnew and only one person had
rented it before Carpenter.
No one that had touched itbefore him had blood or had type
B blood.
This put John Carpenter at thetop of the suspect list.

(01:27:45):
Law enforcement spent the nextfew days outlining Crane's
movements and interviewinganyone who interacted with him
that day.
Carpenter's date that nightcould only provide an alibi for
him up to about 2 am, whichwasn't long enough to discount
him as a suspect.
They also interviewed the maidwho cleaned Carpenter's room.
After he checked out, sherecalled seeing a bloody

(01:28:06):
pillowcase and several handtowels in the bathroom, but
didn't think much of it andwashed them anyway.
Carpenter willingly went toScottsdale to be interviewed on
July 2nd.
Police stressed that he was notunder arrest and only there to
clear up some discrepanciesabout his stay with Crane.
Carpenter provided a detailedaccount about the day of the
murder, consented to a blooddraw and offered to undergo a

(01:28:29):
polygraph, which they declinedbecause they didn't think they
had enough information to knowwhether he was lying or not,
since the results of the bloodtest wouldn't be done for a
couple days and because alltheir evidence was
circumstantial, they had nochoice but to let Carpenter fly
home.
He initially agreed to anotherinterview on July 14th, but once
it became clear that he wastheir primary suspect, he

(01:28:51):
invoked his right to remainsilent.
Carpenter wasn't the onlysuspect police looked into.
Patty was interviewed severaltimes, given the nature of their
relationship at the time ofCrane's murder, although she did
say they had a phone argumentthat night.
She was miles away inBainbridge Island, which is a
little island off of Washingtonup near Seattle on a two-week

(01:29:12):
vacation.
Several people, includingRobert, thought she may have had
someone kill him for financialgain, as Crane's will left
everything to her and their sonand if the divorce was finalized
she wouldn't get anything.
While this is a compellingtheory, no evidence was ever
uncovered to support it.
During her interviews, pattyshared that she suspected
jealousy or retaliation as amotive, potentially at the hand

(01:29:36):
of the man Crane thought wastailing him in 1973.
This was an interesting one, aspolice took all the photographs
and videos found in Crane'shouse on the day of his murder.
A few lucky detectives had thepleasure of going through each
and every one in an attempt toidentify every woman in them.
Throughout this process, theylearned that several women

(01:29:57):
didn't realize they were beingfilmed at the time, leading
police to speculate about whatwould happen if one of them
somehow found out and confidedin a loved one.
A final theory with a similarmotive was that one of Crane's
hookups did the deed herself.
Per Robert, any woman whoshowed up at Crane's house,
regardless of the hour, wouldprobably be let inside.

(01:30:18):
Additionally, an anonymouscaller claimed to have seen a
woman and her son leave Crane'sapartment around 6.30 in the
morning.
The description matched Pattyand Scotty, as well as Brenda
Broyles, the woman Crane had asexual relationship with in 1973
, and her son, since Patty had apretty airtight alibi that left

(01:30:38):
Brenda.
Police spoke to her on August1st, but she really didn't have
much information to give.
Shortly after she left her kidat her grandparents' house and
disappeared, there was no signof foul play and only her
vehicle was missing.
Her skeletal remains were foundby a group of hikers in an
Arizona desert in September 1986, but she couldn't be identified

(01:31:00):
because DNA testing was stillin its infancy.
Her body wasn't identifieduntil 2007 and the murder
remains unsolved.
Out of all these theories,detectives were convinced
Carpenter was their man, but theDA refused to press charges due
to insufficient evidence.
As weeks turned to months, therelationship between the two

(01:31:20):
offices soured.
To make matters worse, thepolice were being accused of
conducting an incompetentinvestigation, which, to be
honest, it kind of was, butreally to no fault of their own.
In 1978, the Scottsdale PoliceDepartment didn't have a
homicide division since murderwas so rare, meaning they were
ill-equipped to handle ahigh-profile case like this one.

(01:31:41):
During a meeting in earlyAugust, the DA said they would
charge Carpenter only if theysecured a confession or found
the murder weapon with hisfingerprints.
Despite multiple searches ofthe Arizona Canal and sewer
drains, nothing was ever found.
By September 1979, over a yearsince Crane's murder, the case
was at a complete dead end.
In 1980, a popular Phoenixattorney running for election

(01:32:05):
used the cold case to hiscampaigning advantage by vowing
to take another look at it if hewon.
Shortly after he was elected aslead district attorney in
January 1981, he instructed thepolice department to comb
through the evidence once more.
He also added a formerWashington DC investigator who
helped identify JFK's assassin.
The case was again shelved sixmonths later.

(01:32:28):
There was virtually noinvestigation for the next eight
years.
Meanwhile, carpenter ended hisrelationship with his younger
girlfriend and reunited with hiswife, diane, once again.
In late 1989, a newly elected DApromised to try to solve a list
of cold cases, and Cranes madethe cut.
The investigation seemed morethorough than the last, with law

(01:32:49):
enforcement essentiallyreconstructing it based on what
was preserved.
The blood was retested inNovember, but results were
inconclusive as it wasn'trefrigerated for over 10 years.
Most of the witnesses werere-interviewed, with the
exception of Carpenter, who wasinstructed by counsel to not
talk to anyone about the case.
In September 1990, scotty did aninterview on A Current Affair.

(01:33:13):
During it he performed a songhe wrote for his rock and roll
band called Dear Dad.
As a result of the appearance,a man came forward with new
evidence, claiming he was movedby the performance and wanted to
help.
This man said he was workingfor a moving company whose team
arrived at the apartments around3am to ensure they got started

(01:33:34):
right at sunlight so they couldbe done with their day by 1pm.
Although that sounds crazyearly, apparently at the time of
this it wasn't uncommon forthese movers to want to get
started as soon as the sun cameup, so they could be done before
it got to the hottest point ofthe day, and this did happen in
the summer, so it would havebeen really, really hot.

Remi (01:33:56):
I've worked as a mover.
That's not uncommon at allcomment at all.

Ashley (01:34:03):
While waiting to get the job started, he allegedly saw
someone with bloody hands peekhis head through Crane's
curtains, exit carrying a jacketin one arm and drove away in a
white car after he asked them tomove their van.
Although employment documentsdid show that this mover was at
the apartment around this time,another mover's statements about
what was seen wasn't entirelyconsistent.
While sifting through evidencein July 1990, the task force

(01:34:26):
found a photo of the scratch onCarpenter's rental car and
noticed what looked like a teeny, tiny piece of human tissue
caught within the groove of thescratch.
Three medical experts examinedthe blown-up photo and opined
that it appeared to be braintissue and was consistent with
the injuries Crane suffered.
Meanwhile, a criminologist wasdoing everything he could to try

(01:34:50):
to identify the murder weaponby matching it with the head
impression and the sheet smear.
One by one, he ruled out that atire, iron crowbar, fire, poker
or golf club were used.
It wasn't until he was given atripod that he landed on
something that seemed to matchalmost perfectly.
Carpenter was 63 years old whenhe was arrested for first-degree

(01:35:12):
murder on June 1st 1992.
Nine days later he was chargedwith three counts of lewd
conduct with a child, whichmeant he would stay in
California before beingextradited to Arizona to stand
trial for murder.
These charges were unsurprisingto many, as there was talk
about how Carpenter had ahistory of sex acts with females

(01:35:33):
much, much younger than him.
It was also well known that hehad started dating Rita when she
was just 15.
In this case, the victims wereRita's 10-year-old daughter and
a 12-year-old friend.
In November he pled no contestto one count of sexual battery
of a child and was sentenced tothree years of probation.
He was extradited to Arizona inDecember 1992 and bailed out

(01:35:58):
while awaiting trial thefollowing May.
Bob Crane's murder trial kickedoff in the fall of 1994.
Although the newly discoveredbrain tissue from the car hadn't
been preserved, the judge ruledthe photograph and expert
opinions admissible, which Icannot believe.
The initial police departmentmissed a piece of brain matter

(01:36:19):
inside that group.

Remi (01:36:21):
Bob said it himself in the movie his murder investigation
was not very well handled.

Ashley (01:36:26):
It sounds like they tried, but they made so many
other errors they didn't ropeoff the crime scene at all.
The day after they let his soncome in and just take whatever
stuff he wanted of Bob'spersonal effects, and none of
the blood was stored correctly,which again you can't really
fault them, because there justwasn't a lot of knowledge about
how this stuff should be stored.

(01:36:48):
But all of these errors reallyadd up and, in my opinion, make
it so.
That's why it was never quoteunquote solved.
During the trial, theprosecution put forth their
theory that Carpenter murderedCrane out of jealousy and rage
when Crane told him that he wasending their relationship with

(01:37:08):
Robert being a key witness tothis.

Remi (01:37:11):
This seems like the most likely thing to have happened.

Ashley (01:37:14):
The theory was that Carpenter did call Crane, and
then Crane invited him over totalk, and while he was either
laying in bed or asleep in bed,that's when Carpenter murdered
him.

Remi (01:37:27):
Was it revealed?
They said this in the DVD butthey said the tripod was missing
from the murder scene andthat's how they had known that
it was the murder weapon orsomething like that, because it
was actually Bob Crane's tripod.
It was like in his house.

Ashley (01:37:44):
I don't think police even knew that it should or
shouldn't have been there, soI'm not sure if it was.
But what the defense argues isthat the only reason that they
settled on a tripod being themurder weapon was because it was
speculation based solely onCarpenter's occupation, and
really nailed home the fact thatit was never found.

(01:38:04):
But per the scientists doing theinvestigation, the tripod
matched the blood smear that wasleft on the sheet and also fit
perfectly into the like mockhead that they made to try to
match it.
In addition to pointing outthat the murder weapon was never
found, the defense reallylabeled the case as

(01:38:25):
circumstantial and based oninconclusive evidence.
They presented testimony thatthe pair were actually on good
terms and highlighted severalother potential suspects,
including disgruntled lovers,angry husbands or boyfriends and
an actor who had sworn avengeance after a violent
argument with Crane in Texasseveral months earlier.

(01:38:45):
So, as Greg Kinnear put it,there were a lot of people that
probably wouldn't care much ifCrane had died.
Additionally, they disputedthat the photo showed brain
tissue and highlighted all theerrors in the investigation,
including how evidence wasmishandled and lost.
After two days of jurydeliberation, Carpenter was

(01:39:06):
acquitted on October 31st.
Happy Halloween 1994.

Remi (01:39:11):
With how everything was laid out in this trial.
That is not surprising.
You only have to convince onejuror that has a reasonable
doubt.
This is not an airtight casebecause of Bob's history going
around with all these women whoclearly could have vendettas, or
have husbands who havevendettas, or he had a lot of

(01:39:31):
enemies.

Ashley (01:39:32):
And in a couple interviews after with some
potential jurors.
That's what they said they'relike.
All you have are these theoriesof what you think happened and
a blood smear and a scratch on acar that you can't directly tie
to Carpenter in any conclusiveway.
As a result of the accusationand his arrest, carpenter was

(01:39:53):
fired from his job.
He maintained his innocenceuntil he died from a heart
attack on September 3rd 1998.
After the trial, robert spokepublicly that Patty may have
been involved in instigating thecrime, since the entire estate
was left to her.
The DA responded saying she wasnever characterized as a
suspect and his office fullybelieved Carpenter was the sole

(01:40:15):
culprit.
In addition to Scotty and Pattyunsuccessfully trying to sell
the rival movie script, theyalso launched Bobcranecom, which
remained active until May 2017.

Remi (01:40:28):
I did not realize it had stayed active for that long.
This was the website I wastalking about earlier with the
photos.

Ashley (01:40:37):
Oh yeah, and it's way worse than that.
It was marketed as a memorialsite, but it also included a
paid section featuringphotographs, outtakes from
Crane's sex films and an autopsyreport that Scotty said proved
his father didn't have a penileimplant as stated in the movie.
The photographs and videos fromthe private archive could be

(01:40:58):
purchased at a monthlysubscription fee of $19.95.

Remi (01:41:06):
purchased at a monthly subscription fee of $19.95.
All of which are photos ofwomen who did not consent for
these to be distributed on anylevel.
This is insanely illegal andinsanely disrespectful to these
women.

Ashley (01:41:15):
Yeah, I'm not sure how long you were able to purchase
this stuff, but the site itselfwas up from 2002 to 2017.
But I don't know if thatincluded the subscription aspect
.
From what you said, probablynot.
They probably weren't able todo that for very long, but it
was a website you could visit.

Remi (01:41:36):
It is illegal to record people without their consent and
then distribute it for money.
I think that may have been thething that got him in trouble.
Maybe putting it up there forfree he was allowed to.
I don't know that law, but it'scompletely fucked up, no matter
what.

Ashley (01:41:52):
A few years after the site was removed, a spokesperson
for Crane's second family saidScotty regretted his actions,
destroyed the entire mediacollection and was focused on
trying to get his dad inductedinto the Radio Hall of Fame.
Patty died of lung cancer atthe age of 72 in 2007.
Before her death, she movedCrane's body from his original

(01:42:14):
resting place without tellinghis first family so she could be
buried next to him.

Remi (01:42:20):
Are they buried in Los Angeles?

Ashley (01:42:22):
I believe so yeah.

Remi (01:42:24):
Okay, I think his grave is in the Hollywood Forever
Cemetery.
I could be wrong, though, sodon't quote me on that.

Ashley (01:42:30):
In November 2016, the Maricopa Attorney's Office
permitted Phoenix TV reporter,john Hook, to submit the blood
samples from the rental car forretesting using a more advanced
DNA technique than what wasavailable in 1990.
The lab that did the testingalso helped with the John Bonnet
, ramsey and OJ Simpson cases.

(01:42:51):
Two sequences were identified,one from an unknown male, but
the other was too degraded toreach a conclusion.
This test used up all theremaining DNA from the car,
making further testingimpossible.
The murder of Bob Crane remainsunsolved to this day, and that
is the true story of PaulSchrader's autofocus Remy.

(01:43:12):
Do you think Carpenter did it?

Remi (01:43:15):
I absolutely think that Carpenter did it.
I think that there isreasonable doubt, of course,
because of, again, all thesituations that Bob put himself
in, but to me it seems prettyobvious that John was the one
who perpetrated this.
What do you think?

Ashley (01:43:33):
I definitely think John Carpenter did it All the stuff
with that rental car.
With all that blood on the seat.
There should be no reason thatthere would be Bob Crane's blood
on the outside of it.
There shouldn't be a bigscratch with blood and brain
tissue inside it.

Remi (01:43:50):
That seems like a smoking gun to me.
But again, you have to convinceevery single person on that
12-person jury and there's a lotof room for different
interpretations.

Ashley (01:44:01):
A lot of room for different interpretations.
I think if that piece of braintissue had been preserved and
they were able to show that itwas Bob's, there might have been
a better chance of getting aguilty verdict.
But since all you had was apicture and two or three experts
saying, like well, it lookslike brain tissue, there was no
way to confirm what it was.

(01:44:22):
I agree, I definitely thinkCarpenter did it.
I think there is a lot ofcircumstantial evidence that
really does point to him.
But unfortunately, I do thinkthe jury in this case made the
right call.
I don't think there was enoughto say beyond a reasonable doubt
that he did it.

Remi (01:44:40):
Well, with that should we jump into the next part of our
show, which is our objection ofthe week.
Your honor, I object, and whyis that, Mr Reed?

Auto Focus Clip (01:44:50):
Because it's devastating, to my case,
overruled, good call.

Ashley (01:44:55):
And for everyone joining us for the first time.
Our objection of the week isthe most unnecessary change made
between the true story and themovie, A change that was made
that doesn't really change thestory or wouldn't have changed
the movie much at all if it waskept accurate, but for some
reason it was changed anyway.

Remi (01:45:15):
I will go first the fact that in reality Hogan's Heroes
ended on April 4th and in themovie ended on July 4th.
That is the most meaninglesschange that I found.
I almost put the Hilda Helgothing because he had sex with
both women and for some reasonthey didn't have that mentioned.
But yeah.
April and July, why?
That doesn't make anydifference at all.

Ashley (01:45:37):
That's a really good one .
I'm already going to say youwon Mine that I landed, on,
which I didn't have very many.

Remi (01:45:44):
And that is because they are covering two very different
areas.
I really only had three writtendown and normally I have a
whole sheet, but again, yeah,there wasn't tons to compare the
two to.

Ashley (01:45:55):
Mine was that in the movie Crane kind of stumbled
upon John Carpenter doing somevideo stuff and that's how they
met, when in reality it soundslike Dawson introduced them to
each other because Hogan'sHeroes had a pretty open set.
But I like yours better.

Remi (01:46:11):
Well, he was working on Dawson's trailer.
That's when they happened uponeach other.
But yeah, it was more of ahappenstance and less of a
introduction.

Ashley (01:46:19):
Well now, I'm very excited for this one.
We're going to do our verdict.

Narrator (01:46:25):
At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will
deliver a verdict based on thefilm's accuracy.
If the film is an honestportrayal of the events, then it
will earn a not guilty verdict.
If the adaptation is mostlyfactual but creative liberties
were taken for the sake ofentertainment, the film will be
declared a mistrial.
But if the film ultimatelystrays too far from the truth, I

(01:46:48):
will kick things off here.

Remi (01:46:55):
Again reiterating that the film and the book cover very
different parts of this storyand the book cover very
different parts of this story,but from what I was able to
gather between the two, it seemslike the story is pretty well
told.
So I am going to barely givethis film a not guilty verdict.
I almost went with a mistrialbecause one provided so much

(01:47:19):
additional information in hispersonal life and the other
provided so much additionalinformation in his personal life
and the other provided so muchadditional information about his
murder, and I kind of feel likethe book and the movie are a
pair together.
But the stuff that was in bothof them I would say was accurate
enough and something that Ididn't mention during my part

(01:47:41):
during the scene where Bob ismurdered, they purposefully
chose to have the man playingthe assailant not be Willem
Dafoe.
It was played by a differentactor because there is that
doubt you really don't know forsure.
You're pretty positive, butthey wanted to have a different
person doing it, to have adifferent body language, just so

(01:48:02):
you wouldn't know for sure inyour mind while you were
watching it.
And including that I thoughtwas pretty on point as well for
how this story ends.
And yeah, I'm giving it a notguilty, but barely.

Ashley (01:48:16):
So I'm also giving it a not guilty verdict.
But, like, with no doubt, likeI didn't even consider a
mistrial, I think this film isnot guilty all the way.
On your point of how the movieis focusing more on Bob Crane's
life, and then I had a lot ofdetails about the aftermath,
that makes sense because themovie is about Bob Crane's life,

(01:48:38):
not necessarily about his deathand everything that came after.
So I think that's kind of whyit ends with his death, because
they really wanted to tell thestory of this man, not
necessarily the story of thisman's murder.

Remi (01:48:52):
I would have given it a mistrial due to leaving out
things.
Basically, I think a lot of theinformation that you shared
about what happened after hisdeath should have been addressed
more than a final paragraphmonologue and then the credits
roll.
I think that there was more tothe story that was left out, but
I think the stuff that wasincluded is accurate.

Ashley (01:49:14):
And I also want to point out that the book this movie
was taken from it actually endsbefore the trial.
By the time this book waspublished, carpenter had really
been, he had been arrested andbailed out.
This book came out in 1992 andthis happened when he was bailed
out in like mid-1992.
So that's when the book ends.

(01:49:35):
I had to do other resources tofind everything that happened
after.

Remi (01:49:40):
Well, there you go, two not guilty verdicts for
autofocus.
A very interesting life storyof Bob Crane, a man I really had
never known, his career oranything like that.
It was before my time, but yeah, very fascinating story about
this man.
What do we have coming up intwo weeks, ashley?

Ashley (01:50:01):
In two weeks we are kicking off part one of our
two-part season three finalewith the story and movie Below
about George Jung, whotrafficked first marijuana and
then got himself intotrafficking cocaine for the
Medellin cartel.
Our second episode is going tobe American Made, which is a

(01:50:24):
movie featuring Tom Cruise witha similar drug trafficking story
, and the connection betweenboth of these films are it was
two Americans that gotthemselves into the drug trade
with Pablo Escobar's cartel.
So we're not going to betalking about Pablo Escobar.
We'll reiterate this at thebeginning of next week.

(01:50:45):
It's really focusing on thesetwo people and their different
experiences.
There's no fucking way we couldgo over all of this and Pablo
Escobar.
There would just be an insaneamount.
If you want to know about PabloEscobar, watch Narcos.

Remi (01:51:02):
We were not even able to find a movie that would have
given the story of Pablo Escobarjustice.
So, yes, we will be focusing onthe American drug traffickers,
who, in the film Blow is playedby Johnny Depp and American Made
, is Tom Cruise, which isprobably one of the only times
we'll be able to discuss Tom.

Ashley (01:51:23):
That's true.
We did want to do one withPablo Escobar and then maybe
link it to Blow or somethinglike that, but there really is
no movie.
I think there was one with,like, javier Bardem, but we like
did a little digging into itand it's not really about him,
it's more of his relationshipwith his wife.
So there just really isn't amovie yet that details Pablo

(01:51:45):
Escobar as well as Narcos does.

Remi (01:51:48):
And Narcos is too big of an undertaking for us to tackle.
But thank you, as always, forjoining us.
If you enjoy our show and likewhat you hear, please leave a
five-star review, like comment,subscribe.
If you leave a fun, fun, nicecomment for us, we will gladly
read it on the air and we, ofcourse, appreciate everyone

(01:52:09):
taking the time to listen to ourshow.
We also have a instagram and atiktok at criminal adaptations
and everyone court is adjourned.

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