January 21, 2025 • 30 mins
In his debut podcast, Criminal Defense Attorney Casey Krizman starts with the basics: Control that which you can control. People caught up in the criminal INjustice system feel overwhelmed and helpless. Casey advises his clients to start gaining control step-by-step -- starting with taking care of yourself physically and mentally.
In Episode 1, Casey talks with Oliver Vaughn of REVO Physiotherapy and Sports Performance. Oliver is a body worker – someone who uses massage and physical training to help people of all walks of life improve their breathing and conditioning, leading to overall wellbeing.
While physical wellbeing and criminal injustice may not seem entwined, the fact is when your life is turned upside down, find something you can control and that no one can take away from you. It can be a game-changer to get you through a traumatic experience.
Resources mentioned in the show:
Whealth -- Online resource for exercise to relieve back pain.
Kneesovertoesguy -- YouTube videos of accessible exercise routines
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you are somebody who is in the criminal justice system, if you're incarcerated, again,
(00:10):
it's something that you can control.
It's something that you can start taking the positive leadership over your life and
start realizing you do have some power.
Welcome to Criminal Injustice, the podcast that pulls back the curtain on America's
broken legal system.
I'm your host, Casey Krizman.
A criminal defense attorney and former criminal defendant.
(00:32):
I fight in the trenches to defend those caught in the machinery of our so-called justice
system.
Each month, we bring you raw conversations with activists, advocates, and experts who
are working to expose systemic oppression and create real change for the system and
for the people caught up in.
We dive deep into troubling realities of a system that seems designed to keep people
(00:56):
trapped in cycles of poverty and incarceration.
The fight against criminal injustice starts now.
Today is episode one, and I'm excited to embark on this podcast journey.
(01:16):
I'm especially thrilled to have Oliver Vaughn as my first guest.
Oliver is a body worker, someone who uses massage and personal training to help people
improve their lives physically, leading to psychic change.
While physical well-being and criminal injustice may not seem intertwined, the fact is, when
your life is turned upside down, finding something that you can control can be a game changer
(01:39):
getting you through that traumatic experience.
In the midst of chaos, do things that feel empowered and rise above it.
Welcome Oliver, and thanks for being a guest on our first show.
My goal with this episode is to give folks tangible direction on how to take control
of their lives and their physical and mental well-being.
(02:02):
It's no accident that this is my first episode and what I'm choosing to focus on, because
it is really the foundation of how people can take control of their lives.
In my line of work, the legal stuff is half the battle.
Criminal defendants come to me and their life is in shambles, and they need help and guidance.
That's why we're here today talking to you.
You're a body worker.
(02:23):
What does that mean?
For me, I like to term body worker, because I do, I'm technically a licensed massage therapist,
but generally people think massage therapy, they think of spas, well, they have to stuff
nothing wrong with that.
But for me, body work is really getting into those deep issues that you're talking about
that are starting to pull people apart, starting to cause stress, pain, whatever dysfunction
(02:48):
in their life.
So that's really when I go after with body work is where those problem areas are and
work through those things.
And then I also do strength training as well.
So I also work on releasing stress, all that good stuff, but also building strength and
resilience in the body as well.
So yeah, that's what body work is to me.
(03:08):
And how did you get into body work?
Kind of like long story.
I mean, I guess I would start with, honestly, as a kid, my mom would let us stay up late
if she allowed us to rub her feet.
So I think that was where it started, was literally just going for that.
And so I think where I got a feel for tension.
(03:29):
Literally.
Yeah.
So I think I was actually doing a decent job kind of like working tension on my last
week.
I got a good feel for that.
And then like, you know, as life progressed, those that athlete played sports, a lot of
power, literally, in college and then ran into like my first year's bout of back pain
like my first year after graduating.
And then from there, kind of sort of digging into just like, how did I fix this pain?
(03:51):
And it was like debilitating, caused frankly, just a lot of depression.
It was like a pretty rough time of life.
I figured out how to like get into form rolling with cross-balling and found like a particular
muscle in my hip and got a release out of that.
And that pretty much instantaneously fixed my back pain.
So from that point, I kind of knew that I was like, and I had this wave of euphoria
(04:12):
that came, I was like, almost like crying in the gym, trying to like control my emotions.
But it was this massive wave of like, yeah, euphoria.
I was like super happy and grateful that I was out of pain.
And I felt like just this massive shift in like my psychology, just everything from that
point.
A psychic change.
Quite a bit.
Yeah.
Because I mean, again, it was like, I was depressed, sad, and just like not having a good time.
(04:35):
Right.
And then really that one release kind of switched it from like, I had hope there's a way out
of this, I feel better.
And then from that moment, that's where I kind of really knew like massage and body
work, you know, just super duper powerful.
And almost in an instant, sometimes if you're lucky, you know, and create that shift for
somebody.
So that's like short story long, right?
(04:57):
And it sounds to me like you, you were in pain and you took it into your own hands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely.
And that's a huge part that I like to focus on kind of, you know, push onto my clients
is that they have some control.
There is something that they can do about this.
And I think having that moment where you're empowering somebody, like there is a way out
(05:18):
and you have to do something about it is a big moment for people.
So yeah.
So when we're talking about body work, you've mentioned massage and personal training, weight
strength training.
A lot of folks are coming off the couch or, you know, they might be reasonably fit, but
don't know where to start.
(05:38):
Outside of the massage and personal training, where are good places for people to start
taking control of their personal or their physical well being?
Yeah.
I think like you can obviously start with the basics of just like literally get outside,
go on a walk, go eat good food, you know, get good sleep, drink water.
Those were like the basic, basic things.
(06:00):
And then I think the internet today, honestly, education is so huge and it's so widely available.
Like there's nothing stopping anybody from getting online and, you know, seeing stuff
like this and figuring out like, how do I actually take control and move forward?
So yeah, like start with the basics and then go get educated and kind of just keep taking
that next step.
Okay.
(06:20):
Now you mentioned eating, sleeping, you know, these, these basics.
What does it, why is that so important?
Yeah, I think it's important for me just because it creates almost like a rhythm in
life and that we're very cyclical beings.
Obviously we have a circadian rhythm, you know, and our hormones and everything kind
of functions off of that.
(06:42):
So if you're lacking a rhythm in your life, if you're on drugs, staying up late, have
no, you know, consistency with like social circles or just any habits at all, it's
going to lead to just relatively irrational behavior, honestly, in my opinion.
So I think if you can start with those basics of like get a schedule down, go to sleep,
wake up, go outside, get some sunlight, that's going to start at least regulating those basics.
(07:04):
And that gives you at least a platform kind of a foundation to build on.
So you can actually like go make better decisions.
So that's why that stuff is so important to me.
And I don't always trust that.
I think people look too far ahead of those things sometimes.
And if those things aren't in place, I feel like nothing else honestly matters too much.
It's so often.
Yeah.
And then they, you know, when people want to get into shape, they say, oh, I need to
(07:28):
go sign up for that half marathon or that 10 K, they start running right off the couch.
And I don't want to take away from, hey, get active, absolutely and create goals for yourself.
But perhaps the first step to being physically fit is to eat healthy and get sleep.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And those really are like the building blocks of where we recover to.
So if you're in a bad spot and you're in pain, if you are just like struggling to
(07:53):
have any depression, something like that, I bet there's something off in there that
we can fix.
So yeah, sleep is literally just when you're rebuilding, recovering and then foods, you
know, the building blocks to kind of get back there.
So those are definitely the most foundational things.
And then from there, yeah, scaling in, you know, weights and running and, you know, whatever
else we want to do.
But yeah, start with basics.
(08:13):
And that's something that also to anybody can do.
Right.
There's no barrier to entry to getting better sleep.
Like those are things you can control today.
Absolutely.
What about breathing?
Breathing also extremely important.
I am like a certified breath coach.
I've definitely done some courses in that.
Okay.
And I think when it comes to especially like mental change, your breath really does indicate
(08:35):
where your head's going to be at.
You know, if I start hyperventiling, I'm going to start getting a little anxious here.
Of course, if I take one big breath, I'm going to kind of settle into my space, get a little
bit more confident.
And yeah, so I mean, breathing is definitely going to like indicate where your nervous
system is going.
So I think just even just focusing on the weight of your breathing is a big place to
(08:56):
start.
So it's a cliche when somebody's having kind of a breakdown, but it's like take a breath.
But that is really where a lot of that starts when we're trying to get a shift in your nervous
system.
So yeah, literally take a breath, go to sleep, drink water, get some good food.
Yeah.
Well, and just over a year ago, so you changed my life drastically.
I didn't know it, but that was a mouth breather.
(09:18):
And my shoulders were all messed up.
My back was in, you know, just, you know, it was tied in knots.
Yeah.
And you turn me onto a book called breath.
And I realized that I had been, my entire person exists between my, beneath my nose
and my chest.
And I was breathing through my mouth the whole time.
(09:39):
I started breathing through my nose religiously as much as possible.
And my body has just relaxed a hundred fold.
It really is incredible.
Yeah.
No, I mean, just to highlight some of the big points of that book, because I do think
they're well worth noting nasal breathing is huge for your nervous system in terms of
like literally your fight or flight is linked to two mouth breathing.
(10:02):
So if you think about like you're running from a tiger or like in the depths of a fight
for your life, you're probably breathing in through your mouth and that kind of indicates
your body were in danger.
So that's like a huge, huge thing.
If you're telling your body, we're kind of in danger.
We're on the edge all the time because we're mouth breathing.
Where as if you take a nose breath, then you kind of know that you're at least safe.
You're in a place where you can have that space to breathe.
(10:24):
And I think a lot of people just don't take that time to acknowledge it, you know, and
you're an inherent man, you know, like you're going through one of the craziest physical
trials ever and still maybe having some of those issues.
So professional athletes, college athletes, and can still have these problems.
Another couple of things with nose breathing versus the mouth breathing is that it just
(10:45):
also like is like a little bit of a humidifier purifier of air.
So it's literally cleaning air as you get in, which like you get less dehydrated, you
know, right?
So there's just a lot of things where it literally like creates like a better like home, you
stay so it's like a better environment for your body or just like you're going to be
calmer and you have better cleaner air in your body.
Yeah, a bunch of other benefits to go into with that.
(11:08):
But you know, when I breathe in through my mouth now, I feel as though I'm getting unenriched
air.
Whereas if I'm breathing through my nose, I feel like I'm getting what I'm supposed
to get through the air.
Yeah, absolutely.
So and look, we could do an entire episode on breath because it really did change my
life that much.
But I want to actually go now to your personal story.
(11:31):
You actually have an incredible off the couch to, or maybe not off the couch, but why don't
you just tell us where were you when you started your physical change?
Yeah, I mean, my biggest physical change, like I said, is pretty much when I started
it with body work that like first hip release, getting out of back pain.
That was a big one where I started losing a lot of weight.
(11:53):
So I got that point.
It was 330 pounds.
Wow.
And you know, like you said, I wasn't necessarily stuck on the couch.
I was a pretty active guy with powerlifting going to the gym probably five, six times
a week, but I was also eating four or five thousand calories a day probably.
So once I kind of got out of back pain, that kind of opened the door for me to sort of
(12:13):
realizing like how many other things that I needed to kind of address.
And I knew that weight was not helping my back at all.
So I kind of took that initiative to actually start losing weight.
But I think again, like the body would open up that door for me where I was like just
too depressed, not motivated enough to make those changes.
But once I got out of pain, then I was like, Oh, I could actually make changes.
(12:35):
So might as well.
Yeah, start eating healthier, like let's get to sleep better.
Let's start eating at the right times of the day.
So about the course of the next 18 months, I lost 120 pounds.
So I went down from like 330 to 10, completely fixed my back pain and got my course wrong.
You know, and then started, you know, getting back into like running and lifting heavy and
(12:56):
just feeling good about myself again.
So that's that.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
120 pounds, that's the determination that that must take.
What was that like?
You know, maybe not just starting it because you kind of touched on why you just started
it, but you're two or three months into this endeavor.
(13:16):
You're seeing some results, but you're still over 300 pounds.
What bring me into that specific time period in your life and what did you draw upon to
keep going?
Yeah, I mean, I think I was lucky in terms of honestly, so just my own personal story
of like, for me, I think I have like a reverse body dysmorphia.
(13:38):
So like, I think I always like saw that in myself, but I could get down to this.
So I think that's a huge kind of advantage of the had going into it.
I think some people are maybe stuck in this headspace of like, I am this big person, I'm
never going to lose the weight.
Luckily for me, I kind of had this idea that like, I'm going to get down to that weight
eventually, like I knew I wasn't going to be stuck at 300 my whole life.
(14:00):
Like I didn't know at some point I was going to make that shift.
So I think that helped to kind of have that vision at the end and kind of have the confidence
to start.
And then I was getting into the fitness world.
So I was becoming a personal trainer and I think I just had a lot of responsibility
almost to my clients and people around me to like kind of walk the walk, you know, I
(14:22):
think I had the strength stuff down.
I was a really strong guy, 300 pounds, but obviously didn't have my cardio down, didn't
have my mobility down.
So as I was kind of getting started in this world, that was a huge motivation to kind
of like be an example for my clients.
And that discipline just kind of rang in my head of kind of like when you want to get
a snack later, it's like, you know, like you have clients you're going to be talking to
(14:43):
the next day.
And if you're a little bit more disciplined that night, it's obviously going to be better
for me, but I'm going to come into work a better person show up for my clients a little
bit better.
I think I focused on that because I love external motivations of somebody else kind of gives
me a reason to do something that definitely helps out a lot.
I just kind of like had my milestones too.
I think that's a big thing is like not thinking about it all in one task.
(15:04):
And I think about I have to lose 120 pounds.
I did it in like 30 power trunks.
So I just had that next number in my head of like, I'm going to get down to the 330
down to 300.
And then that's my goal.
Once I got to 300, cool, collect myself and then move on to the next goal.
So there's a lot there.
And, you know, I think what I would want to highlight is for folks who maybe do have that
(15:27):
body dysmorphia or don't have that, that self image.
And when I was out of shape and I could show you pictures of my driver's license when I
was a drunk and it was awful.
And I mean, I looked like I possessed, but I never felt like I looked like that.
I always had a strong enough positive self image that I thought I looked the way I do
now.
But certainly for folks who may not have that positive body image, I think that maybe
(15:51):
taking things into chunks incrementally is maybe a great place for someone to start.
So we kind of talked about, you know, getting off, not you specifically getting off the
couch, but somebody who needs to turn their life around and just start with that, you
know, start eating healthy, getting some sleep.
(16:12):
What about folks who, you know, are physically active, maybe physically fit, but now they're
in trouble and their life is out of control?
What would you recommend for somebody like that kind of the next level up?
I mean, I think that's like at work.
Yeah.
Taking that next step at the basics and like actually getting on a program is just huge.
So it's like we're joining a team, getting into classes, getting a trainer, something
(16:33):
like that helps.
Accountability.
Accountability.
Absolutely.
And again, if none of those are options for you, there's plenty of free programs on the
internet.
There are so many out there.
So you can find those things today.
You can find a program and it doesn't need to be a lot of equipment.
It could be like a body weight exercise program, but again, having accountability, having a
schedule and actually being like, I'm going to go work out on these days.
(16:55):
That's something you could control and some of you take wins at and that's something
only you can rely on.
It doesn't have anything to do with like the criminal justice system.
It doesn't have anything to do with your partner, your mom, your dad, anybody.
If you can go do those like 10 setups, 10 pushups, 10 squats and do those on the days
that you're recommending starting to build wins and starting to build consistency and
starting to take control.
So in all of those zones, those are yours.
(17:17):
Every time you get up at 6.30 in the morning and you get that workout in or you know, get
up before 6.30 and start working out at 6.00, whatever the time doesn't matter.
Every time you get after it, even when you don't want to, when you're done, you own
that win.
Yeah, those those build up, right?
Absolutely.
Now, there's a lot of folks know, and as you know, I got my second DUI when I was in
(17:41):
law school.
It was right before I graduated and I was about to take the bar exam.
And so as is typically the case with crises in that.
But anyway, you know, I really woke up that next day and my life was turned upside down.
It was just a field of wreckage and I had no idea how I was going to get through all
(18:03):
of it.
And so what I did is I just started putting my head down and whether that was mentally
going through the process of each day and clearing as much of that physical wreckage,
actual wreckage that I caused.
But then there was, I wanted to take control of my body.
I was studying for the bar exam.
(18:23):
I seen people just use all sense of health while studying for the bar exam.
And I had no control over anything else.
So I started running.
And I don't know that I ever stopped.
I ended up blowing my knee out about eight months into the running and that was the only
thing that ever really limited me.
(18:44):
And frankly, the long term injury is the only thing that ever stops me now.
But for me, it was I'm caught up in the criminal injustice system.
I don't know what my future is going to be.
And I'm going to do this one thing that they can't take away from me.
(19:05):
How does that resonate with the folks you work with in your field and maybe folks who
are having those types of issues?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fantastic point to make though that there are so many things
in life that we don't control.
And that is fine.
It is how the world works.
But having something that you can't control does give you a lot of agency and does kind
(19:26):
of like bring in kind of, I don't know, helps get through the day a little bit more.
So yeah, I work with lots of like business executives, people working in small business
owners, you know, people who are dealing with the world at large and have a lot of stuff
coming at them.
So to wake up and start the day at 6am and then do a couple of squats and kind of like
(19:49):
know that they came in planning to do that, they did that, nobody else has anything to
do with that.
Again, he gives them the confidence to kind of like start moving throughout the day.
But if nothing is really within your control, it's easy to get kind of scattered range,
kind of let the world start taking control of you and then you don't really have any
agency left.
So again, I think starting out with a run something where you're like, I'm going to
(20:12):
go do this thing, there's nobody really getting in your way.
Right.
Again, gives you that confidence to kind of start focusing on what you can control.
And that spreads across your entire life, you know, because obviously it's pretty easy
to control the sit ups or the squats in the morning.
It's harder to control your staff or harder to control, you know, the government or whoever
else you're working with.
But there are little things in each one of our businesses or, you know, like criminal
(20:37):
justice cases that we can control.
And you just got to focus on those things and kind of isolate them and do what you can
about what you have control over.
And, you know, what I want to do there is you mentioned that doing the squats or at least
controlling the squats is relatively easy compared to the rest of your life.
Yeah.
But you and I both know there are so many cold mornings.
(21:00):
So many there's, you know, those days when you just didn't get the night's sleep that
you wanted.
But you've made that promise to yourself that you were going to do the thing in the morning.
So I want you to go into that place with me because you and I both know what it is.
So some people listening, how do you overcome that specific gremlin in your head that doesn't
(21:21):
want you to do the thing that you should?
Another question I think I often kind of go through this quote.
It's one of my favorite things is that discipline breeds motivation, not the other way around.
I think a lot of people wait to be motivated.
They want to have this kind of like signal from God of like, I'm going to go out and
do it in the morning.
And it's like, you just got to be disciplined first.
(21:43):
And once you've actually done that thing, once you've actually gone up and made that
hard decision, without any motivation, knowing that there's no immediate reward, you're just
going to get up and go do the thing.
The next time gets a lot easier.
Next time the next time.
So the first week really, I push people to just get through it.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to suck.
But the more times you do it, the more times you kind of have this like build up to kind
(22:07):
of go do it again.
So that's one of the things that I tell myself is that I need discipline before my motivation.
So that discipline, I tell my early born and clients this all the time when they come in,
they're tired and they're didn't sleep well or something like that.
And like you made your discipline gains today, like maybe I did PR under squats, but you
made extra discipline gains.
(22:27):
And that's huge.
The more you do that, the more you can consistently kind of go in and you know, any given day,
whether it's not feeling well, didn't get a good night's sleep, didn't eat well, you
have that discipline to go get in there.
And the more times you do that, you're motivated because you're like, this is who I am.
I do this shit.
You know, I go in and I go do hard things.
But if you've never done it before, you don't have that motivation, you don't have that
(22:47):
in the back of your head.
So you got to build that first.
That's an incredible quote.
Thank you for that.
I was going to ask you, you know, how to overcome those barriers, how to make time to, to take
care of yourself.
But I think you just answered it and it says start with discipline, whether it's eating,
sleeping, getting up, getting to the gym.
(23:08):
Any one of those steps seems to me it boils down to discipline.
Yeah, definitely.
And the easy step to actually really make that time is make the time sounds obvious,
schedule it, write it down.
We are 10 times more likely to do things that we write down physically.
So if you actually go rate it in your schedule and you're wondering what it is, you're a
lot more likely to go do it.
(23:29):
So don't just think about it, go plan it, write it, make it real.
Have you had your gym back the night before?
Yeah, yeah, that's what helps a lot.
So let's bring this all home now.
You know, whether or not, regardless of physical, a person's physical condition right now,
if someone suddenly finds themselves wrapped up in the criminal injustice system and they
(23:52):
need something that they can hang their hat on, what can they do, concrete, to start taking
control of their lives?
Yeah, great question.
I think just to bring it back to what we've already talked about, that book, Breath, is
a fantastic place to start.
Again, that's something you can do in any given situation, no matter where you're at,
(24:15):
you can take a couple of breaths and start controlling your nervous system and sort of
getting yourself in the right state to succeed.
Again, if you're in that fight or fight response, that's just kind of screw up all of your decision
making from that point on.
So I think Breath's a great book, kind of gives people a lot of breathing exercises,
a lot of good scientific literature to kind of back all this stuff up.
(24:36):
So I think that's a great place to start.
I'm a big fan of, again, social media stuff.
There's a lot of good YouTube, Instagram accounts.
Some of the guys that I follow that I think anybody can follow that provide free content.
There's one account called Wealth.
It's W and then Health.
Wealth and the other guy and his wife who made it Andrew Dettelback and his wife.
(24:59):
They're one of the first kind of people that exposed me to proper core strengthening,
proper hip mobility.
I credit him very much for giving me a program and he scheduled to start getting on a routine
to actually fix my back.
So he's a great resource for Verlo back stuff.
He had discreditation that he fixed with his own techniques.
So if you have back pain, highly recommend going to him.
(25:23):
Another easy place to start is Needs Over Toes guy.
I think I'm a huge advocate of his stuff.
Very scalable.
If you're like a baby to a grandma, any injury in between, Ironman, his stuff works for everybody
and very, very accessible, very well coached.
So those are just some of the simple resources that I would like to point people to.
(25:44):
If you don't know where to start, go check out these people, go check out the breath
book, go start moving your back around, go start moving your ankles, your knees around
and stuff.
Just get that blood following.
Absolutely.
I agree.
I couldn't attest to that book more.
It literally changed my life.
I am significantly less the pain than I have been in the last 20 years because I started
(26:06):
healing through my nose.
Keep in mind, I was already running and doing Ironman's.
I was running all through my mouth.
Now, because this is the Criminal Injustice podcast, I have to ask the question, what
does physical health, physical training, massage, body work, how does that lead the way in the
(26:26):
fight against criminal injustice?
Great question.
Honestly, a little bit of like a meta question, but one of the big reasons I got into it was
to make big impacts in the criminal justice.
It sounds a bit far out, but I studied political science when I was in college, so I thought
about becoming a lawyer.
But given the way that my life was going, my opportunities, I didn't feel like that was
(26:50):
my best past to impact the world.
But then again, through my own personal experience, I realized how many other CEOs, how many judges,
how many people working in prisons are in pain and they're making bad decisions because
they're in pain.
That's where I feel like if we can start with that and we actually start with our leaders,
we can get the president and the judges, all them to start doing mobility work, to start
(27:16):
breathing properly.
Their nervous systems are going to be in a better place.
They might make more empathetic decisions.
I would like to put pressure on those people first to make changes in their own life, so
that way we can start making better decisions as a society.
That's where I really want to focus my efforts is people like you, who actually have a place
of this, you know, like have some power in the criminal justice system.
(27:41):
So yeah, I think like politicians all then need to kind of get on this and will eventually
kind of like with better, healthier decisions in our own personal lives, make better, healthier
decisions as a society.
Because I know that's what happened for me.
I was not making new decisions in my own life because I was in pain.
And I think a lot of our leaders are in pain.
(28:01):
I don't think that a lot of them take care of themselves.
I've met a lot of these people and they don't have great routines.
So I would really love for those people to start doing that stuff.
And then again, if you are somebody who is in the criminal justice system, if you're
incarcerated, again, it's something that you can control.
It's something that you can start taking the positive ownership over your life and start
realizing you do have some power.
(28:23):
You might not have power over your entire situation, but you have power over your breath.
Nobody's stopping that.
As long as you're alive and breathing and you can start with that.
And then again, body weight workouts, getting outside and going through all that.
So yeah, that's how I think health and wellness and all this stuff can actually make a big
impact in the world and actually start making better decisions as a society.
(28:45):
And I think particularly for the criminal justice system, we just need more empathy.
And I think if we're in less pain or taking better care of ourselves, we actually want
to do better for the people around us and we stop getting so selfish.
When you're in pain, I think you start thinking about just yourself and how do I get out of
this situation and you're not thinking about the person next to you.
So yeah.
(29:06):
You've got to remove the plank from your eyes so that you can help other folks.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, this has been great, Oliver.
Thank you so much for coming in.
Thank you for giving us such great insight into really taking control of our lives, especially
when it seems so out of reach.
Yeah, but really appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
All right.
Thank you.
I want to take a moment today after speaking with Oliver to talk a little bit about Revo
(29:32):
physical therapy.
That's where Oliver works.
They have two locations, one in Boulder and one in Denver.
They focus on personal training, massage therapy and dry needling.
And frankly, they do an incredible job.
They've changed my life.
They are dedicated to getting to the bottom of the problem, whether that's dry needling,
(29:57):
the ancient pain of muscles that have been tied up for years, or just getting those knots
unkept so that you can start moving again.
Also strength training and really they provide a great community for their folks as well.
So I really recommend you reach out to Revo if you are looking to improve your physical
well-being.
(30:18):
They will do a great job.
Thanks.
If you are somebody who is in the criminal justice system, if you're incarcerated, again,
(00:10):
it's something that you can control.
It's something that you can start taking the positive leadership over your life and
start realizing you do have some power.
Welcome to Criminal Injustice, the podcast that pulls back the curtain on America's
broken legal system.
I'm your host, Casey Krizman.
A criminal defense attorney and former criminal defendant.
(00:32):
I fight in the trenches to defend those caught in the machinery of our so-called justice
system.
Each month, we bring you raw conversations with activists, advocates, and experts who
are working to expose systemic oppression and create real change for the system and
for the people caught up in.
We dive deep into troubling realities of a system that seems designed to keep people
(00:56):
trapped in cycles of poverty and incarceration.
The fight against criminal injustice starts now.
Today is episode one, and I'm excited to embark on this podcast journey.
(01:16):
I'm especially thrilled to have Oliver Vaughn as my first guest.
Oliver is a body worker, someone who uses massage and personal training to help people
improve their lives physically, leading to psychic change.
While physical well-being and criminal injustice may not seem intertwined, the fact is, when
your life is turned upside down, finding something that you can control can be a game changer
(01:39):
getting you through that traumatic experience.
In the midst of chaos, do things that feel empowered and rise above it.
Welcome Oliver, and thanks for being a guest on our first show.
My goal with this episode is to give folks tangible direction on how to take control
of their lives and their physical and mental well-being.
(02:02):
It's no accident that this is my first episode and what I'm choosing to focus on, because
it is really the foundation of how people can take control of their lives.
In my line of work, the legal stuff is half the battle.
Criminal defendants come to me and their life is in shambles, and they need help and guidance.
That's why we're here today talking to you.
You're a body worker.
(02:23):
What does that mean?
For me, I like to term body worker, because I do, I'm technically a licensed massage therapist,
but generally people think massage therapy, they think of spas, well, they have to stuff
nothing wrong with that.
But for me, body work is really getting into those deep issues that you're talking about
that are starting to pull people apart, starting to cause stress, pain, whatever dysfunction
(02:48):
in their life.
So that's really when I go after with body work is where those problem areas are and
work through those things.
And then I also do strength training as well.
So I also work on releasing stress, all that good stuff, but also building strength and
resilience in the body as well.
So yeah, that's what body work is to me.
(03:08):
And how did you get into body work?
Kind of like long story.
I mean, I guess I would start with, honestly, as a kid, my mom would let us stay up late
if she allowed us to rub her feet.
So I think that was where it started, was literally just going for that.
And so I think where I got a feel for tension.
(03:29):
Literally.
Yeah.
So I think I was actually doing a decent job kind of like working tension on my last
week.
I got a good feel for that.
And then like, you know, as life progressed, those that athlete played sports, a lot of
power, literally, in college and then ran into like my first year's bout of back pain
like my first year after graduating.
And then from there, kind of sort of digging into just like, how did I fix this pain?
(03:51):
And it was like debilitating, caused frankly, just a lot of depression.
It was like a pretty rough time of life.
I figured out how to like get into form rolling with cross-balling and found like a particular
muscle in my hip and got a release out of that.
And that pretty much instantaneously fixed my back pain.
So from that point, I kind of knew that I was like, and I had this wave of euphoria
(04:12):
that came, I was like, almost like crying in the gym, trying to like control my emotions.
But it was this massive wave of like, yeah, euphoria.
I was like super happy and grateful that I was out of pain.
And I felt like just this massive shift in like my psychology, just everything from that
point.
A psychic change.
Quite a bit.
Yeah.
Because I mean, again, it was like, I was depressed, sad, and just like not having a good time.
(04:35):
Right.
And then really that one release kind of switched it from like, I had hope there's a way out
of this, I feel better.
And then from that moment, that's where I kind of really knew like massage and body
work, you know, just super duper powerful.
And almost in an instant, sometimes if you're lucky, you know, and create that shift for
somebody.
So that's like short story long, right?
(04:57):
And it sounds to me like you, you were in pain and you took it into your own hands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely.
And that's a huge part that I like to focus on kind of, you know, push onto my clients
is that they have some control.
There is something that they can do about this.
And I think having that moment where you're empowering somebody, like there is a way out
(05:18):
and you have to do something about it is a big moment for people.
So yeah.
So when we're talking about body work, you've mentioned massage and personal training, weight
strength training.
A lot of folks are coming off the couch or, you know, they might be reasonably fit, but
don't know where to start.
(05:38):
Outside of the massage and personal training, where are good places for people to start
taking control of their personal or their physical well being?
Yeah.
I think like you can obviously start with the basics of just like literally get outside,
go on a walk, go eat good food, you know, get good sleep, drink water.
Those were like the basic, basic things.
(06:00):
And then I think the internet today, honestly, education is so huge and it's so widely available.
Like there's nothing stopping anybody from getting online and, you know, seeing stuff
like this and figuring out like, how do I actually take control and move forward?
So yeah, like start with the basics and then go get educated and kind of just keep taking
that next step.
Okay.
(06:20):
Now you mentioned eating, sleeping, you know, these, these basics.
What does it, why is that so important?
Yeah, I think it's important for me just because it creates almost like a rhythm in
life and that we're very cyclical beings.
Obviously we have a circadian rhythm, you know, and our hormones and everything kind
of functions off of that.
(06:42):
So if you're lacking a rhythm in your life, if you're on drugs, staying up late, have
no, you know, consistency with like social circles or just any habits at all, it's
going to lead to just relatively irrational behavior, honestly, in my opinion.
So I think if you can start with those basics of like get a schedule down, go to sleep,
wake up, go outside, get some sunlight, that's going to start at least regulating those basics.
(07:04):
And that gives you at least a platform kind of a foundation to build on.
So you can actually like go make better decisions.
So that's why that stuff is so important to me.
And I don't always trust that.
I think people look too far ahead of those things sometimes.
And if those things aren't in place, I feel like nothing else honestly matters too much.
It's so often.
Yeah.
And then they, you know, when people want to get into shape, they say, oh, I need to
(07:28):
go sign up for that half marathon or that 10 K, they start running right off the couch.
And I don't want to take away from, hey, get active, absolutely and create goals for yourself.
But perhaps the first step to being physically fit is to eat healthy and get sleep.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And those really are like the building blocks of where we recover to.
So if you're in a bad spot and you're in pain, if you are just like struggling to
(07:53):
have any depression, something like that, I bet there's something off in there that
we can fix.
So yeah, sleep is literally just when you're rebuilding, recovering and then foods, you
know, the building blocks to kind of get back there.
So those are definitely the most foundational things.
And then from there, yeah, scaling in, you know, weights and running and, you know, whatever
else we want to do.
But yeah, start with basics.
(08:13):
And that's something that also to anybody can do.
Right.
There's no barrier to entry to getting better sleep.
Like those are things you can control today.
Absolutely.
What about breathing?
Breathing also extremely important.
I am like a certified breath coach.
I've definitely done some courses in that.
Okay.
And I think when it comes to especially like mental change, your breath really does indicate
(08:35):
where your head's going to be at.
You know, if I start hyperventiling, I'm going to start getting a little anxious here.
Of course, if I take one big breath, I'm going to kind of settle into my space, get a little
bit more confident.
And yeah, so I mean, breathing is definitely going to like indicate where your nervous
system is going.
So I think just even just focusing on the weight of your breathing is a big place to
(08:56):
start.
So it's a cliche when somebody's having kind of a breakdown, but it's like take a breath.
But that is really where a lot of that starts when we're trying to get a shift in your nervous
system.
So yeah, literally take a breath, go to sleep, drink water, get some good food.
Yeah.
Well, and just over a year ago, so you changed my life drastically.
I didn't know it, but that was a mouth breather.
(09:18):
And my shoulders were all messed up.
My back was in, you know, just, you know, it was tied in knots.
Yeah.
And you turn me onto a book called breath.
And I realized that I had been, my entire person exists between my, beneath my nose
and my chest.
And I was breathing through my mouth the whole time.
(09:39):
I started breathing through my nose religiously as much as possible.
And my body has just relaxed a hundred fold.
It really is incredible.
Yeah.
No, I mean, just to highlight some of the big points of that book, because I do think
they're well worth noting nasal breathing is huge for your nervous system in terms of
like literally your fight or flight is linked to two mouth breathing.
(10:02):
So if you think about like you're running from a tiger or like in the depths of a fight
for your life, you're probably breathing in through your mouth and that kind of indicates
your body were in danger.
So that's like a huge, huge thing.
If you're telling your body, we're kind of in danger.
We're on the edge all the time because we're mouth breathing.
Where as if you take a nose breath, then you kind of know that you're at least safe.
You're in a place where you can have that space to breathe.
(10:24):
And I think a lot of people just don't take that time to acknowledge it, you know, and
you're an inherent man, you know, like you're going through one of the craziest physical
trials ever and still maybe having some of those issues.
So professional athletes, college athletes, and can still have these problems.
Another couple of things with nose breathing versus the mouth breathing is that it just
(10:45):
also like is like a little bit of a humidifier purifier of air.
So it's literally cleaning air as you get in, which like you get less dehydrated, you
know, right?
So there's just a lot of things where it literally like creates like a better like home, you
stay so it's like a better environment for your body or just like you're going to be
calmer and you have better cleaner air in your body.
Yeah, a bunch of other benefits to go into with that.
(11:08):
But you know, when I breathe in through my mouth now, I feel as though I'm getting unenriched
air.
Whereas if I'm breathing through my nose, I feel like I'm getting what I'm supposed
to get through the air.
Yeah, absolutely.
So and look, we could do an entire episode on breath because it really did change my
life that much.
But I want to actually go now to your personal story.
(11:31):
You actually have an incredible off the couch to, or maybe not off the couch, but why don't
you just tell us where were you when you started your physical change?
Yeah, I mean, my biggest physical change, like I said, is pretty much when I started
it with body work that like first hip release, getting out of back pain.
That was a big one where I started losing a lot of weight.
(11:53):
So I got that point.
It was 330 pounds.
Wow.
And you know, like you said, I wasn't necessarily stuck on the couch.
I was a pretty active guy with powerlifting going to the gym probably five, six times
a week, but I was also eating four or five thousand calories a day probably.
So once I kind of got out of back pain, that kind of opened the door for me to sort of
(12:13):
realizing like how many other things that I needed to kind of address.
And I knew that weight was not helping my back at all.
So I kind of took that initiative to actually start losing weight.
But I think again, like the body would open up that door for me where I was like just
too depressed, not motivated enough to make those changes.
But once I got out of pain, then I was like, Oh, I could actually make changes.
(12:35):
So might as well.
Yeah, start eating healthier, like let's get to sleep better.
Let's start eating at the right times of the day.
So about the course of the next 18 months, I lost 120 pounds.
So I went down from like 330 to 10, completely fixed my back pain and got my course wrong.
You know, and then started, you know, getting back into like running and lifting heavy and
(12:56):
just feeling good about myself again.
So that's that.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
120 pounds, that's the determination that that must take.
What was that like?
You know, maybe not just starting it because you kind of touched on why you just started
it, but you're two or three months into this endeavor.
(13:16):
You're seeing some results, but you're still over 300 pounds.
What bring me into that specific time period in your life and what did you draw upon to
keep going?
Yeah, I mean, I think I was lucky in terms of honestly, so just my own personal story
of like, for me, I think I have like a reverse body dysmorphia.
(13:38):
So like, I think I always like saw that in myself, but I could get down to this.
So I think that's a huge kind of advantage of the had going into it.
I think some people are maybe stuck in this headspace of like, I am this big person, I'm
never going to lose the weight.
Luckily for me, I kind of had this idea that like, I'm going to get down to that weight
eventually, like I knew I wasn't going to be stuck at 300 my whole life.
(14:00):
Like I didn't know at some point I was going to make that shift.
So I think that helped to kind of have that vision at the end and kind of have the confidence
to start.
And then I was getting into the fitness world.
So I was becoming a personal trainer and I think I just had a lot of responsibility
almost to my clients and people around me to like kind of walk the walk, you know, I
(14:22):
think I had the strength stuff down.
I was a really strong guy, 300 pounds, but obviously didn't have my cardio down, didn't
have my mobility down.
So as I was kind of getting started in this world, that was a huge motivation to kind
of like be an example for my clients.
And that discipline just kind of rang in my head of kind of like when you want to get
a snack later, it's like, you know, like you have clients you're going to be talking to
(14:43):
the next day.
And if you're a little bit more disciplined that night, it's obviously going to be better
for me, but I'm going to come into work a better person show up for my clients a little
bit better.
I think I focused on that because I love external motivations of somebody else kind of gives
me a reason to do something that definitely helps out a lot.
I just kind of like had my milestones too.
I think that's a big thing is like not thinking about it all in one task.
(15:04):
And I think about I have to lose 120 pounds.
I did it in like 30 power trunks.
So I just had that next number in my head of like, I'm going to get down to the 330
down to 300.
And then that's my goal.
Once I got to 300, cool, collect myself and then move on to the next goal.
So there's a lot there.
And, you know, I think what I would want to highlight is for folks who maybe do have that
(15:27):
body dysmorphia or don't have that, that self image.
And when I was out of shape and I could show you pictures of my driver's license when I
was a drunk and it was awful.
And I mean, I looked like I possessed, but I never felt like I looked like that.
I always had a strong enough positive self image that I thought I looked the way I do
now.
But certainly for folks who may not have that positive body image, I think that maybe
(15:51):
taking things into chunks incrementally is maybe a great place for someone to start.
So we kind of talked about, you know, getting off, not you specifically getting off the
couch, but somebody who needs to turn their life around and just start with that, you
know, start eating healthy, getting some sleep.
(16:12):
What about folks who, you know, are physically active, maybe physically fit, but now they're
in trouble and their life is out of control?
What would you recommend for somebody like that kind of the next level up?
I mean, I think that's like at work.
Yeah.
Taking that next step at the basics and like actually getting on a program is just huge.
So it's like we're joining a team, getting into classes, getting a trainer, something
(16:33):
like that helps.
Accountability.
Accountability.
Absolutely.
And again, if none of those are options for you, there's plenty of free programs on the
internet.
There are so many out there.
So you can find those things today.
You can find a program and it doesn't need to be a lot of equipment.
It could be like a body weight exercise program, but again, having accountability, having a
schedule and actually being like, I'm going to go work out on these days.
(16:55):
That's something you could control and some of you take wins at and that's something
only you can rely on.
It doesn't have anything to do with like the criminal justice system.
It doesn't have anything to do with your partner, your mom, your dad, anybody.
If you can go do those like 10 setups, 10 pushups, 10 squats and do those on the days
that you're recommending starting to build wins and starting to build consistency and
starting to take control.
So in all of those zones, those are yours.
(17:17):
Every time you get up at 6.30 in the morning and you get that workout in or you know, get
up before 6.30 and start working out at 6.00, whatever the time doesn't matter.
Every time you get after it, even when you don't want to, when you're done, you own
that win.
Yeah, those those build up, right?
Absolutely.
Now, there's a lot of folks know, and as you know, I got my second DUI when I was in
(17:41):
law school.
It was right before I graduated and I was about to take the bar exam.
And so as is typically the case with crises in that.
But anyway, you know, I really woke up that next day and my life was turned upside down.
It was just a field of wreckage and I had no idea how I was going to get through all
(18:03):
of it.
And so what I did is I just started putting my head down and whether that was mentally
going through the process of each day and clearing as much of that physical wreckage,
actual wreckage that I caused.
But then there was, I wanted to take control of my body.
I was studying for the bar exam.
(18:23):
I seen people just use all sense of health while studying for the bar exam.
And I had no control over anything else.
So I started running.
And I don't know that I ever stopped.
I ended up blowing my knee out about eight months into the running and that was the only
thing that ever really limited me.
(18:44):
And frankly, the long term injury is the only thing that ever stops me now.
But for me, it was I'm caught up in the criminal injustice system.
I don't know what my future is going to be.
And I'm going to do this one thing that they can't take away from me.
(19:05):
How does that resonate with the folks you work with in your field and maybe folks who
are having those types of issues?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fantastic point to make though that there are so many things
in life that we don't control.
And that is fine.
It is how the world works.
But having something that you can't control does give you a lot of agency and does kind
(19:26):
of like bring in kind of, I don't know, helps get through the day a little bit more.
So yeah, I work with lots of like business executives, people working in small business
owners, you know, people who are dealing with the world at large and have a lot of stuff
coming at them.
So to wake up and start the day at 6am and then do a couple of squats and kind of like
(19:49):
know that they came in planning to do that, they did that, nobody else has anything to
do with that.
Again, he gives them the confidence to kind of like start moving throughout the day.
But if nothing is really within your control, it's easy to get kind of scattered range,
kind of let the world start taking control of you and then you don't really have any
agency left.
So again, I think starting out with a run something where you're like, I'm going to
(20:12):
go do this thing, there's nobody really getting in your way.
Right.
Again, gives you that confidence to kind of start focusing on what you can control.
And that spreads across your entire life, you know, because obviously it's pretty easy
to control the sit ups or the squats in the morning.
It's harder to control your staff or harder to control, you know, the government or whoever
else you're working with.
But there are little things in each one of our businesses or, you know, like criminal
(20:37):
justice cases that we can control.
And you just got to focus on those things and kind of isolate them and do what you can
about what you have control over.
And, you know, what I want to do there is you mentioned that doing the squats or at least
controlling the squats is relatively easy compared to the rest of your life.
Yeah.
But you and I both know there are so many cold mornings.
(21:00):
So many there's, you know, those days when you just didn't get the night's sleep that
you wanted.
But you've made that promise to yourself that you were going to do the thing in the morning.
So I want you to go into that place with me because you and I both know what it is.
So some people listening, how do you overcome that specific gremlin in your head that doesn't
(21:21):
want you to do the thing that you should?
Another question I think I often kind of go through this quote.
It's one of my favorite things is that discipline breeds motivation, not the other way around.
I think a lot of people wait to be motivated.
They want to have this kind of like signal from God of like, I'm going to go out and
do it in the morning.
And it's like, you just got to be disciplined first.
(21:43):
And once you've actually done that thing, once you've actually gone up and made that
hard decision, without any motivation, knowing that there's no immediate reward, you're just
going to get up and go do the thing.
The next time gets a lot easier.
Next time the next time.
So the first week really, I push people to just get through it.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to suck.
But the more times you do it, the more times you kind of have this like build up to kind
(22:07):
of go do it again.
So that's one of the things that I tell myself is that I need discipline before my motivation.
So that discipline, I tell my early born and clients this all the time when they come in,
they're tired and they're didn't sleep well or something like that.
And like you made your discipline gains today, like maybe I did PR under squats, but you
made extra discipline gains.
(22:27):
And that's huge.
The more you do that, the more you can consistently kind of go in and you know, any given day,
whether it's not feeling well, didn't get a good night's sleep, didn't eat well, you
have that discipline to go get in there.
And the more times you do that, you're motivated because you're like, this is who I am.
I do this shit.
You know, I go in and I go do hard things.
But if you've never done it before, you don't have that motivation, you don't have that
(22:47):
in the back of your head.
So you got to build that first.
That's an incredible quote.
Thank you for that.
I was going to ask you, you know, how to overcome those barriers, how to make time to, to take
care of yourself.
But I think you just answered it and it says start with discipline, whether it's eating,
sleeping, getting up, getting to the gym.
(23:08):
Any one of those steps seems to me it boils down to discipline.
Yeah, definitely.
And the easy step to actually really make that time is make the time sounds obvious,
schedule it, write it down.
We are 10 times more likely to do things that we write down physically.
So if you actually go rate it in your schedule and you're wondering what it is, you're a
lot more likely to go do it.
(23:29):
So don't just think about it, go plan it, write it, make it real.
Have you had your gym back the night before?
Yeah, yeah, that's what helps a lot.
So let's bring this all home now.
You know, whether or not, regardless of physical, a person's physical condition right now,
if someone suddenly finds themselves wrapped up in the criminal injustice system and they
(23:52):
need something that they can hang their hat on, what can they do, concrete, to start taking
control of their lives?
Yeah, great question.
I think just to bring it back to what we've already talked about, that book, Breath, is
a fantastic place to start.
Again, that's something you can do in any given situation, no matter where you're at,
(24:15):
you can take a couple of breaths and start controlling your nervous system and sort of
getting yourself in the right state to succeed.
Again, if you're in that fight or fight response, that's just kind of screw up all of your decision
making from that point on.
So I think Breath's a great book, kind of gives people a lot of breathing exercises,
a lot of good scientific literature to kind of back all this stuff up.
(24:36):
So I think that's a great place to start.
I'm a big fan of, again, social media stuff.
There's a lot of good YouTube, Instagram accounts.
Some of the guys that I follow that I think anybody can follow that provide free content.
There's one account called Wealth.
It's W and then Health.
Wealth and the other guy and his wife who made it Andrew Dettelback and his wife.
(24:59):
They're one of the first kind of people that exposed me to proper core strengthening,
proper hip mobility.
I credit him very much for giving me a program and he scheduled to start getting on a routine
to actually fix my back.
So he's a great resource for Verlo back stuff.
He had discreditation that he fixed with his own techniques.
So if you have back pain, highly recommend going to him.
(25:23):
Another easy place to start is Needs Over Toes guy.
I think I'm a huge advocate of his stuff.
Very scalable.
If you're like a baby to a grandma, any injury in between, Ironman, his stuff works for everybody
and very, very accessible, very well coached.
So those are just some of the simple resources that I would like to point people to.
(25:44):
If you don't know where to start, go check out these people, go check out the breath
book, go start moving your back around, go start moving your ankles, your knees around
and stuff.
Just get that blood following.
Absolutely.
I agree.
I couldn't attest to that book more.
It literally changed my life.
I am significantly less the pain than I have been in the last 20 years because I started
(26:06):
healing through my nose.
Keep in mind, I was already running and doing Ironman's.
I was running all through my mouth.
Now, because this is the Criminal Injustice podcast, I have to ask the question, what
does physical health, physical training, massage, body work, how does that lead the way in the
(26:26):
fight against criminal injustice?
Great question.
Honestly, a little bit of like a meta question, but one of the big reasons I got into it was
to make big impacts in the criminal justice.
It sounds a bit far out, but I studied political science when I was in college, so I thought
about becoming a lawyer.
But given the way that my life was going, my opportunities, I didn't feel like that was
(26:50):
my best past to impact the world.
But then again, through my own personal experience, I realized how many other CEOs, how many judges,
how many people working in prisons are in pain and they're making bad decisions because
they're in pain.
That's where I feel like if we can start with that and we actually start with our leaders,
we can get the president and the judges, all them to start doing mobility work, to start
(27:16):
breathing properly.
Their nervous systems are going to be in a better place.
They might make more empathetic decisions.
I would like to put pressure on those people first to make changes in their own life, so
that way we can start making better decisions as a society.
That's where I really want to focus my efforts is people like you, who actually have a place
of this, you know, like have some power in the criminal justice system.
(27:41):
So yeah, I think like politicians all then need to kind of get on this and will eventually
kind of like with better, healthier decisions in our own personal lives, make better, healthier
decisions as a society.
Because I know that's what happened for me.
I was not making new decisions in my own life because I was in pain.
And I think a lot of our leaders are in pain.
(28:01):
I don't think that a lot of them take care of themselves.
I've met a lot of these people and they don't have great routines.
So I would really love for those people to start doing that stuff.
And then again, if you are somebody who is in the criminal justice system, if you're
incarcerated, again, it's something that you can control.
It's something that you can start taking the positive ownership over your life and start
realizing you do have some power.
(28:23):
You might not have power over your entire situation, but you have power over your breath.
Nobody's stopping that.
As long as you're alive and breathing and you can start with that.
And then again, body weight workouts, getting outside and going through all that.
So yeah, that's how I think health and wellness and all this stuff can actually make a big
impact in the world and actually start making better decisions as a society.
(28:45):
And I think particularly for the criminal justice system, we just need more empathy.
And I think if we're in less pain or taking better care of ourselves, we actually want
to do better for the people around us and we stop getting so selfish.
When you're in pain, I think you start thinking about just yourself and how do I get out of
this situation and you're not thinking about the person next to you.
So yeah.
(29:06):
You've got to remove the plank from your eyes so that you can help other folks.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, this has been great, Oliver.
Thank you so much for coming in.
Thank you for giving us such great insight into really taking control of our lives, especially
when it seems so out of reach.
Yeah, but really appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
All right.
Thank you.
I want to take a moment today after speaking with Oliver to talk a little bit about Revo
(29:32):
physical therapy.
That's where Oliver works.
They have two locations, one in Boulder and one in Denver.
They focus on personal training, massage therapy and dry needling.
And frankly, they do an incredible job.
They've changed my life.
They are dedicated to getting to the bottom of the problem, whether that's dry needling,
(29:57):
the ancient pain of muscles that have been tied up for years, or just getting those knots
unkept so that you can start moving again.
Also strength training and really they provide a great community for their folks as well.
So I really recommend you reach out to Revo if you are looking to improve your physical
well-being.
(30:18):
They will do a great job.
Thanks.
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