October 16, 2025 • 45 mins
In Episode 57 of Crossroad Conversations, the Lewis Brothers dive into the art of breaking the rules—not recklessly, but strategically. They explore when “best practices” can become barriers, how to challenge the classic “that’s how we’ve always done it” mindset, and why bold moves often unlock growth and trust. From real dealership examples—like transparent pricing, ditching appointment scheduling, and flexible staffing—to lessons from industries like retail and real estate, the episode reveals how great leaders know when to follow the rules and when to rewrite them. The brothers also unpack the dangers of reckless shortcuts, the importance of accountability guardrails, and the creativity unlocked by questioning norms.
Takeaways
- Not all rules serve growth—some need to be challenged or replaced.
- Best practices can become limiting if they’re never re-evaluated.
- Bold risk is good; reckless shortcuts destroy trust and culture.
- Transparency in pricing builds stronger customer loyalty.
- Outdated assumptions in job roles or processes stifle progress.
- Clear communication is key when updating or replacing processes
- Guardrails around ethics, safety, and legality must never be broken.
- Questioning norms sparks creativity, opportunity, and innovation.
- Diversifying risk—like in investments—keeps businesses resilient.
- Sometimes breaking a “sacred” industry rule can set you apart.
Feel the dynamic energy of the Lewis Brothers as they deliver real stories and lessons that keep local businesses on their toes, and share how experiences in the community inspire them to keep on driving.
Check out all our great episodes at CrossroadConversationsPodcast.com!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
You know, the unwritten rules leaders should
challenge.
So as you guys think about thatfor just a second, unwritten
rules that leaders shouldchallenge.
We started tipping into thatearlier on in here is, you know,
when you're in a meeting andsomebody says, Well, that's how
we've always done it.
Say, well, you can ask them thenext question.
We talk about questions in here.
(00:21):
Well, why do you think we do itthat way?
What is the result?
Why do we do it that way?
If they don't have a goodanswer, you need to challenge
that.
Hey everyone, welcome toCrossroad Conversations with the
Lewis Brothers, where we aim toshare real stories about running
a successful family business,working through adversity, and
(00:43):
pouring back into the communitythat keeps our door open.
We're your host, Matt Shelby,and Taylor, and we bring you
relevant local business adviceand automotive insights that are
sure to change the way you lookat running a business.
And maybe even throw in a plugfor you to do business with us.
Welcome back to CrossroadConversation with the Lewis
(01:03):
Brothers.
We are the Lewis Brothers, andthis is episode 57.
This one's gonna be fun today.
Breaking the rules.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Hey, so you want to break the rules?
Can you get this done?
Because it's the last day of themonth and 30 minutes are left.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
Strap in, put it in drive, open the nitrous tank,
and here we go.
Because today we're talkingabout rule breaking, not
reckless rule breaking, okay?
No.
But the times of business andleadership when the following
the playbook, it might hold youback.
You gotta say, hey, hold thisand watch this.
All right.
Most leaders are taught tofollow best practices, and we've
(01:37):
talked a lot about that in thisepisode or in this podcast, but
best practices aren't always theright practices for your
business.
Rule-breaking moments oftencreate innovation, trust, and
growth.
You know, great leaders knowwhen to play by the rules and
then when to write their own.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
I love that.
Hey, if you didn't already tunein to last week's episode,
episode 56, we talk about theslow death of success, how to
spot complacency as it'shappening, as it's been
happening, and what to do beforeit's time to pull the cord.
So check that out.
As always, uh, our last episode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, check us out at LewisSuperstore.com for the French
specials, everything we've gotgoing on in company wise.
And as podcast-wise, check usout at Crossroads Conversation
Podcast.com online.
Subscribe of whatever yourlistening channel is, of um
podcast, YouTube, anything elselike that.
Hey, in the garage this week, Ilove this vehicle.
(02:37):
It is like a billiger.
We talked about the Ranger lastweek, but the Ford Bronco Sport
is the best of both worlds.
It gets you the optimal fueleconomy without sacrificing any
off-road capability.
You're talking about being ableto go drive every single day,
get 30 plus miles a gallon, thenon the weekend go and engage the
goat modes, which everybodydoesn't know that.
(02:58):
That's a Bronco, so I'm gonna goover any terrain.
Go over any terrain.
So they have everything from abig bin starting out at the
$29,000 mark all the way up tothe bad lanes.
It is your rugged, capable frontrear locker, sasquatch package,
off-road ready.
It is an awesome unit, and yougot to come check them out.
SPEAKER_05 (03:19):
I tell you what I love about the Bronco sport,
it's just it's fun.
Yeah.
It's just fun.
Yeah.
It's an everyday driver, it'seasy to maneuver, it gets great
fuel mileage, visibility's greatout of it, but it's fun.
Yep.
You know, it injects fun backinto an affordable, capable
vehicle.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
That's what it is.
It's not a stripped version of aBronco or a cheater version.
It's a smaller, more compact,just as capable.
It's no different between theJeep Wrangler and the old box
Cherokee.
Yep.
Right?
Just as capable.
And new for this year, it's gotmodular front bumper.
It's got tie-downs on the sidefor your canoes or kayaks, which
is just genius.
(03:57):
It has new tech, so it's got ahuge big screen.
So it's not like you didn't getthe technology of the wireless
Apple CarPlay or all thosethings.
And it's an affordable, so youcan get into that Bronco segment
for under 30 grand.
Yep.
It just makes sense.
It just does.
It just makes sense.
I was gonna say it just makessense.
So let's take a Bronco sportfrom our garage and put it in
(04:17):
yours.
Let's do it.
Right?
That's where it is.
All right, this week we'retalking about rules that hold
businesses back.
SPEAKER_04 (04:23):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
You'd be like, no, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good,
I'm good.
Like, no, no, no.
There are some rules that neededto be there, but in certain
times you need to know when tohold them and know when to fold
them, right?
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
I think there's there's two categories in my
brain, and I want to get y'all'stake on this, but there's two
categories in my brain aboutlike when you break the rules
that you've done or you swayfrom them, okay?
And here's two categories.
And I think the first one I sayis where most people are gonna
go to in their mind of whenthey've not followed the rules,
but they've had a good outcome.
(04:55):
I don't mean about not followingthe rules and it got you in
trouble.
You know what I mean?
Whether it's financially,legally, or whatever it may be.
No, we're talking about whereyou actually had some success
there.
The the first category is there,it's when you're in the middle
of a situation or an issue, andit's more of a fight or flight
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
With a customer, with an employee, just a
situation that needs attentionright then.
SPEAKER_05 (05:17):
Right then.
And you actually, you've heardus talk about on this podcast
where you got to slow down andlisten, make sure your emotions
aren't involved.
But I'm talking about a realsituation where you're not even
looking for the rule book.
You're just making decisionsbased upon, you know, your gut.
SPEAKER_04 (05:31):
Goes back to the gut we talked about.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (05:33):
Yep.
It does.
So I think that's where mostpeople go when we talk about,
hey, breaking the rules, becausethey think about a situation
where they had to actimmediately and they didn't even
look for the rule book.
I I want to then go to thesecond category, and I think
that's where we'll talk abouthere, is where you start talking
about the rules of that's whatthe way the industry is, or
that's the way we've always doneit.
(05:55):
Yep.
And and that's the area that Ithink may be holding businesses
back.
And we've heard us talk aboutthis before, but we've been in
business for 79 years, and we'vesat in many meetings, and the
three of us have looked eachother at each other when
employees said something,they're like, where did that
come from?
When another employee says,Well, this is how we do it, it's
(06:15):
how we've always done it.
I'm like, says who?
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
And that's that's important understanding layers
deep, right?
We've talked about it aboutsitting in different areas and
kind of seeing like, and justasking, hey, where'd that come
from?
Hey, I hadn't heard that in awhile, where'd that come from?
And they're like, that's alwayshow it's been done.
So I think that's importantthere of understanding that gut
feeling breaking the rules orthat this is how we've done it.
(06:38):
And I think both of those, whendone uh correctly, can be good.
But when done incorrectly,because a lot of times, like you
said, if they go with a gutfeeling but they don't have the
production, then it was a loselose.
Right?
So that's important that youunderstand that it's okay to
call that audible, but if you'rethat quarterback calling that
(06:59):
audible, or that sales manageror that manager calling that
audible and it didn't turn outwell, then you better learn from
that.
Don't waste that.
But do not repeat that becauseit was not good.
SPEAKER_05 (07:10):
And I would say, so on top of that, when you
identify a rule or I'm gonna saya process too, because uh, you
know, the word process is used awhole lot more business than
rules.
And but your process is kind oflike the rule, the way you do
business.
Um so if a process, if theexplanation from your employees
(07:31):
or your management is we do thatbecause we've always done it
that way, or that's the way thisindustry does, it's time for you
to reevaluate that.
Yeah.
And one, maybe it still is agood process, but nobody knows
the meaning and the purposeanymore.
They're now saying, hey, let'swe're doing this because I was
(07:51):
taught 20 years ago to do itthis way.
Well, but it's not just becauseyou were taught to do that, it's
because it equaled a greatresult.
Or maybe it's not getting agreat result anymore, and you
need to break that rule, andwe've got to develop a new one
that actually accomplishes whatwe're after.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
And the biggest thing there is changes, right?
Industry changes, peoplechanges, process changes will
change what your process needsto be there.
So think about that.
Rules that sound safe, policiesthat sound safe to cover you,
which some are necessary,oftentimes will cap growth.
Thinking grow slow and steady,which is very important.
(08:30):
We see vendors all the time thatwe sign up with, we like because
they're a niche market.
Then they're like, hey, if twopeople are good or if 20 clients
are good and if 50 clients aregood, then 150x are revenue,
then they can't handle that,right?
So that's where slow and steadyis good.
But think on the other side, ifyou don't take risk in your
marketing or you only hirepeople with current industry
(08:53):
experience, you may never know.
SPEAKER_05 (08:56):
I I think an easy way to relate this, Shelby,
maybe for our audience tounderstand this, is first, and I
know we're gonna get to thislater, but don't put all your
eggs in one basket.
Okay.
And I want to relate that to theinvesting world.
All right.
So when you look at somebody'sportfolio of investing, it's
not, hey, put all my money inone thing.
SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (09:19):
It's put, depending upon what stage you're at, put
some of it in safe, putting someof it in risk, and putting some
of it in high risk.
Now you define that however youwant to, but you're not putting
it all in high risk, which highrisk would be like breaking the
rules.
Yep.
There could be great upside toit, but you don't want to bet
the entire farm on it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
So with the employees, do not get all the
same type of person.
SPEAKER_05 (09:43):
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Right?
You're not just getting the runof the gun, I follow no rules,
and like you can keep them inthe bounds.
Like, that's okay to have one ortwo, right?
Because when they hit, they hitbig.
Yeah.
Right?
You're like, whoa, you turned400 hours.
Like, I know it was crash, boom,bang, but the job got done
correctly.
It was a little uh unorthodoxish, but you did it correctly.
(10:06):
We didn't really break anyindustry rules.
Uh, but if you have all ofthose, it's a scheduling
nightmare, it's a where are mypeople at nightmare.
But if you have multipledifferent ones and you got the
soul and steady gray mare,you've got the crazy racehorse,
you've got the long shot youdon't know anything about.
And then that helps kind ofdiversify.
SPEAKER_05 (10:26):
It really does.
So then it allows you to do bothbecause then on your risk side
over there, if you see theupside potential, you move over
in and that becomes then steadygrowth there, you move more over
that way.
Yeah.
Uh one of the things uh in ourindustry we need to talk about
that were the rules forever, butwe've needed to break, and we've
talked a lot about thisrecently, is when we give
(10:50):
customers figures on buying avehicle.
You know, if if you look at howthe rules were forever in the
automotive industry, it was hey,don't give people values on the
vehicle they're buying, on theirtrade and monthly payment, down
payment until they're ready tobuy.
Yeah.
You know, so it was in the past,it was like, hey, they're just
gonna take your numbers andthey're gonna go shop with
(11:11):
everybody else.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
And so let me, I have to stop you and point this
out.
I just saw this this morningabout giving numbers.
This seems basic, but in ourindustry, it's a lot of school
hard knocks.
It drives us nuts because weknow what we know, but getting a
team.
So this comes from cardealership guy.
This came across this morning.
Says one of the this year'sbiggest wins for car shoppers is
(11:36):
clarity at the deal table.
Says nearly half of dealersreported higher customer
satisfaction.
In 84% of those cases, buyerspointed to clear deal details as
the reason.
The biggest operators aren'tburying fees in fine print
anymore.
Like all the details up front.
Yeah.
(11:56):
Like we just, I think we're theonly person in the state of
Arkansas that has our dock feeon the website.
There will be no other dollaradded to the deal.
That's what you for.
That's exactly what you can seeat online, everyone qualifies
for.
And the payoff to this is moretrust and more repeat business,
which everyone wants.
(12:16):
Yeah, right?
A clear deal.
SPEAKER_05 (12:19):
Uh, you know, I go to the real estate industry on
that when you bring that up, andnobody likes this, but they
understand it because it's clearbefore you go close on a piece
of property or on a house, youget, you know, you got you get
your HUD settlement, and it'sgonna, there's eight gazillion
fees on that.
Yeah.
Okay.
But they're all listed out andit's clear.
(12:39):
And before you go close, youknow exactly to the penny how
much you're doing for that.
That's a major shift in ourbusiness that we've been talking
about.
Give everybody figures.
Meet them where they are, givethem the trade value, give them
your best price, give themestimates on monthly payments,
so on and so forth.
So that's a rule that we'vebroken because there needed to
(13:02):
be a new process put in placefor today's customer.
SPEAKER_02 (13:05):
Yeah, it's no different than we said don't
mark up the rate.
Yep.
Or if the bank gives us the ratefor, we'll give it to you.
SPEAKER_05 (13:10):
And how many people looked at us like you are nuts?
They still do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
In our 20 groups, uh, any industry person's like,
you're crazy, you're throwingaway money.
And we said, clarity andtransparency, transactional
units and operation is our goal.
SPEAKER_05 (13:25):
And I think that's when you're you're able to have
these multiple hats on andvisions of short-term gain and
long-term gain at the same time.
Because when we made thatmassive decision, not only did
we do that, we still um bonusedour finance managers on loss of
income there because we knew itwas worth the investment from
(13:46):
our perspective.
We could get more deals becausecustomers were getting lower
rates because we didn't mark upthe rate at all.
It was a buy-sell.
And in turn, we got morecustomers, then it would keep
them in our cycle more becausenobody else was beating the
rates.
They're more likely to come backto us the next time.
So, again, there's anothergreat, great example on how we
(14:06):
broke the rules.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
All right, that was 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_05 (14:08):
That's not bad.
I got one more for you thoughbefore we got to go on to the
next part.
Let me tell you where else webroke the rules.
Tell me.
We stopped scheduling oilchanges.
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
Right?
And when the kickback was sodeep from that, the manufacturer
was here and said, Why are younot because they had a tool,
right?
And they were like, you need toopen up more availability and
said, Why don't you come downhere and let's show this to you?
SPEAKER_05 (14:30):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
And so we showed them that we could do like 50%
more than their scheduler wouldever allow by saying, and then
here's a secret that they didn'twant to know that if one was
full, we had double the capacity28 steps away.
They didn't want to see it, butwe didn't care.
And so we broke that industryrule.
Yep.
Because we saw other peopledoing it.
SPEAKER_05 (14:52):
We saw other people do it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
There were not specifics not OEM.
SPEAKER_05 (14:56):
And I think that's what's important is you always
we talk about it all the time,like rise above so you can see
the entire forest.
We saw everybody else that wasout there doing it great.
We said, why are we followingthis 1970s procedure from the
OEMs?
Break those rules and let's gohere.
And if it blows up, if it blowsup, we can go back to
(15:16):
scheduling.
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
And which it did a little bit uh that there was
people like, no, I we'd createdthe habit of scheduling, so we
had to go back to team and say,hey, no appointments necessary,
but if they want to make one,make one make one.
Stand out there with bells onand say, Welcome, Mr.
Smith, for your appointment.
We have a bay waiting for you.
And they were like, What?
We are or aren't?
What are we doing?
(15:37):
It's like, yes.
Both.
People probably hate us for thatbecause I'll say, look, I need
you to not do anything elseexcept do this, unless you see
somebody that needs something.
And they're like, what?
And I'm like, I need you with atrucker headset out on the lot,
greeting people and making allyour phone calls.
And like, so you want me to makemy phone calls or you want me to
greet people?
I said, both trucker headset.
Microphone up means that you'reready to talk to the people,
(15:58):
microphone down means you'retalking to people.
And you might take your headsetoff and hand it to someone else
and you talk to them and youtalk to them.
SPEAKER_05 (16:04):
The championship teams have the ability to do
that in the moment.
That's where we're going.
And we hold high level ofaccountability.
We're not there yet, but we arefor sure pushing to that.
All right, which automakernearly collapsed in the 2000s
because they ignored key safetyand quality rules.
That's a big one.
They ignored key safety andquality rules.
(16:26):
Was it A Ford, B, Chrysler, CGeneral Motors, or D Toyota?
I'd like to throw out the firsttwo just because there are
brands.
Ford and Chrysler.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Selfishly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
Then that leaves you General Motors or Toyota.
I'm trying to remember which onewas probably the last that you
saw metal keys, because that'swhat they're talking about, that
the key didn't have the correctprogramming or safety features
or anything else.
But it's General Motors.
It's General Motors.
Yeah, it's General Motors.
Yes, absolutely.
Hey, dive into when rulebreaking backfires.
(16:58):
So when rule breaking backfires.
So when you go past thethreshold of what you really
need to do in the moment there,so bold versus reckless line
between smart risk andshortcuts.
SPEAKER_05 (17:10):
I'm going to say right there, this is what stands
out in my mind.
When it backfires is when youleverage too much and you put
too many eggs in one basket.
We started talking about itbefore.
But if you're going to trysomething new, like no
appointment scheduling or thisor that, if it blows up, you
still have to think, okay.
If it blows up, is it gonna buryour business?
(17:33):
No.
No.
We could have lost a little bitof customers in the short term.
We can pivot, put schedulingback in place, and keep rocking
on.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
I think the important part is learning when
to pivot and adapt.
And it's not from the noise,right?
The noise is important of likethis will never work, this will
never work, the naysayer noise,but of just actually like being
in the field and talking tocustomers and then being able
to, you know, it's kind of likethe EV, like, oh, should we buck
this trend?
Should we buck this trend?
(18:01):
What should we do?
Like, okay, we're gonna go in.
We're not gonna go all in.
We're not saying, hey, Ford,let's just make electric
vehicles, but then being able toquickly adapt.
Same thing on the appointmentsfor the old changes versus not
needing those, and then saying,hey, we're gonna adapt.
And it's okay that we were wrongor we missed it a little bit,
but you can't just the bold andreckless.
Sometimes people start takingshortcuts because it's easier.
(18:22):
Yeah.
And then the results aren'tthere, like we talked about.
And it's like, hey, so you needto have your systems check along
the way, you know, at midwaythrough the day or into the days
of the month, and you're going,hey, in the first quarter, in
the second quarter, and thenthird quarter, like, hey, how's
this going?
Okay, we let this guy set hisown schedule so that he can come
and go as he pleased, but he hadto hit 20 units this month.
(18:44):
Okay, it's halfway through themonth.
We're at four car deals.
Let's have a checkup.
We're not reeling him all theway back in, but we're saying,
hey, here's what's going on.
Then three quarters of the waythrough the month, we're saying,
hey, here's where we're at.
You were supposed to be at 16.
We're now at seven and a half.
Here's what I want to do.
And you're not gonna say, you behere tomorrow at eight, you stay
through seven, what you're gonnado because you need some buy-in
(19:04):
and say, hey, let's try this.
I see some opportunity, and Ijust sent out a mail piece and I
just did a bunch of direct mailthat's going to the customers
and they're coming directly tothis building to see you guys.
Do you think it would be okayfor the next five days?
I could get you somewhere froman eight to a 630 to 645 if I
was able to show you how to gofrom eight car deals to 20 car
(19:27):
deals.
Sure.
Right.
And then after whatever happensthere, you're like, hey, that
was bold that we changed that alittle bit.
Thank you for being adaptable.
Now, what's our hybrid systemfor you to be able to work your
own schedule, but also get yourunits in production?
SPEAKER_05 (19:42):
Yeah, and I think like when you when you talk
about this about backfiring onbold versus being reckless, with
the amount of information outthere on podcasts just like
ours, or you're talking about acar dealership guy, with all
that stuff out there, youprobably can learn from somebody
else to put this in place.
And your team still thinks thatit is revolutionary-wise.
(20:04):
It might not have been inautomotive, you know, but
another industry did it.
So you can be bold with doingsomething that the other OEMs
are not doing up and down theroad, but you're not reckless
because you saw the case studyat Procter and Gamble or at XYZ.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
And let me tell you, even the brass tags that
sometimes you think you losecredibility if you say, if you
don't say this is my idea, it'sthe other way around.
If you'll say, hey guys, I'vebeen studying this for the last
six months and Procter andGamble has spent$8.4 million on
this, or hey, this industry orChevy's been doing this, or hey,
(20:40):
we saw this over at Walmart,they've already worked this out.
Now we're gonna adapt it toautomotive because no one's done
it.
Yep.
And you think like, no, you'rethe leader, you need to bring
the idea.
Copy somebody else's idea that'salready proven, and they're
like, Walmart's doing it, it'sgotta be proven, right?
SPEAKER_05 (20:57):
I I think you hit on the the next point, too, there
is in order for it to not bereckless, you still need your
team's buy-in.
SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
No doubt.
SPEAKER_05 (21:06):
And again, we're not talking about the situation
where the building's on fire.
We're talking about going a newway, but you still need buy-in.
SPEAKER_04 (21:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (21:13):
Because when it becomes reckless is when you're
on the island by yourself andyou're hollering at the team
back on shore instead ofexplaining to them, we're all
going to the island together andhere's how we're going to do
this.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
And probably how you keep that in line is is
processing controls, kind ofgoing areas you shouldn't
bypass.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
So areas you shouldn't bypass of talk about,
you know, quality, finance, uh,logic or legal and ethical
thoughts, um, kind of how youThat's all of those areas,
whether it's your quality, likein your repair stuff, or you're
doing what you said you're gonnado, uh, even when no one's
looking, uh, finance, uh, yourlegal, your ethics, or your
(21:56):
safety.
There's no shortcut or there areno rule breaks to any of those.
And your team needs to know veryclearly, like, hey, we're gonna
be adaptable, we're gonna benimble, and we are gonna pivot
when necessary.
And when we find something thatworks, we're gonna go all in.
But nowhere is it okay.
And you've heard us talk aboutit before.
Even if it says it makes acouple extra million dollars,
(22:18):
like haven't seen one of thoseideas yet, but even if it makes
a couple extra million dollarsto go against any of those
things.
The quality, even if you find ashortcut on a recall and it
says, hey, it takes eight hoursto do this, but you can pop the
valve cover and look underneaththis cam phaser and you can see
it's okay.
So you button it back up,absolutely not.
You do the whole job.
In finance, if you could fudgethe income so it was an
(22:41):
auto-approval, absolutely not.
Yep.
And legal of putting thisperson's name on it versus that
person, absolutely not.
So, in all those things, yourethics and your safety without
putting your harness or yourhelmet or your safety glasses
on, absolutely not.
And that has to be very clear.
SPEAKER_05 (22:58):
And those are the filters you just put in place.
And and you can have yourmeeting, everybody can be wound
up and brainstorming, and youjust know we will pause and we
will run it through the filtersyou just talked about before we
will proceed forward.
Yep.
So you cannot lose contact withthe ground on that.
Okay.
And if it legally doesn't workor it messes and it tarnishes
(23:18):
your name or what you're about,that's one of those bad eggs
like on Willy Wonka.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
You know what I mean?
And that's where you'll alwaysfind, especially one of us in
there, that we're happy, golucky, everything else.
But as soon as it gets over thatthreshold, now I'm not gonna
embarrass somebody and just whipthem out in front of everybody,
but you better believe thatthere will be a conversation of
hard line, don't do that againor bad at.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
And it doesn't matter who, and it doesn't
matter what, right?
The rules are the rules.
And if you see somebody that'sthat's flirting with the idea,
then you're like, no, here'swhat we said we would do, and
we're going to do it.
I don't care what the deal lookslike.
We already committed to it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
You know, we already said we would do this.
I don't care where you messedup.
You get out there with yoursmiley face.
Yep.
Tell them congratulations.
And then you and I are gonna sitdown and see where the heck did
we mess up.
We, i.e.
you, but we're gonna say we uhand go through that because
that's a judge of theircharacter.
And if if their character slipsby doing it one time, yeah, just
(24:22):
like we talked about it in theclear process, then that's not
your people.
SPEAKER_05 (24:26):
And we have a radar out for that pretty high,
especially if we hire somebodythat has an experience at a
different store.
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (24:32):
Because we see that.
And and we even talk about that,you know, during an in view or
during onboarding, but we knowat some point in time it's gonna
be tested.
Oh.
Especially on a day like todaywhen it's the end of the month
and they're a couple car dealsaway from their goal, that's
when it'll poke its head out.
SPEAKER_04 (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (24:49):
And that's when emotions are gonna get involved,
but then that's when you reallyget to lay it down, going, nope,
it's not worth it to hit that.
That does not line up with ourethics and legal and what we
said we would uh uh hold.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
Putting those policies in in place, having
guardrails up to let youexperiment, go past those rules
without lighting the business onfire, without going past the
threshold is really Andoftentimes what's really helped
us from our CFO to ourcontroller to our office manager
to deal clerks to financemanagers, there's multiple
(25:24):
layers of backstops that arenon-biased, that don't care who
you are, what your job role is,and it's not I'm trying to hurt
your feelings or not trying tocall you out, not because I've
already called you out fourtimes today.
It's the rules are the rules,and this was not followed.
So what's going on?
Yep.
Right?
And those people help you haveno emotions evolved to say this
(25:44):
was wrong, this was right, wehave a pattern, let's look at
this.
That's super important there.
All right, mythbuster time, youguys ready?
Let's do it.
Tradition is always safe.
If it worked before, it'll keepworking.
Tradition is always safe.
If it worked before, it'll keepworking.
All right, what's your thoughts?
I think that's a trap.
SPEAKER_05 (26:04):
I I really do.
And what that does is it keepsyou from evolving and moving
forward.
Um, I I think that's just reallythe reason I pause there is
because it's it's a touchysubject for a lot of businesses
that have been highlysuccessful.
And you never have to lose sightof what you're about, what your
(26:28):
ethics, the way you do business,your morals.
But then there are things thatdo need to be adapted and
changed because industrieschange.
So I actually think it canhinder you and keep you from
moving forward.
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
Yep.
Uh I totally agree with that.
Like traditions are are verygood.
And it's what you're from, it'swhat you're about.
But just the same way thatpeople update logos with with
good feedback from people, notjust your inner circle, right?
It's okay to update thosethings, but just do a little bit
of inspection there.
We saw that with the crackerbarrel thing.
(27:00):
It's like, whoa, hang on.
Yeah.
Like, let's let's really ask allthe people, not just a few niche
people, uh, but be willing toadapt.
Because I'll tell you that withCracker Barrel, they made a
change and said, we ask all thepeople, they love it.
Well, the internet said, no way,no way.
And so then cracker barrel wassmart enough, like enough damage
had been done that they didn'tdig their feet in the ground.
And they said, Um, actually,we've heard you and we're going
(27:22):
back.
That's right.
We're going back, right?
To some tradition.
Um, so it's about having that uhbalance.
So that is busted.
Busted.
Markets, customer needs, andtechnology constantly evolve or
always evolving.
Traditions can become traps ifyou never change them.
SPEAKER_05 (27:39):
That's right.
You know, the unwritten rulesleaders should challenge.
So as you guys think about thatfor just a second, unwritten
rules that leaders shouldchallenge.
We started tipping into thatearlier on in here is you know,
when you're in a meeting andsomebody says, Well, that's how
we've always done it.
I say, Well, you can ask themthe next question.
(28:00):
We talk about questions in here.
Well, why do you think we do itthat way?
What is the result?
Why do we do it that way?
And if they don't have a goodanswer, you need to challenge
that.
Yeah.
And go, okay, what is thepurpose?
You know, and and again, we'renot talking about because it's
the law.
We're not talking about becauseit's in contract with the
finance companies that we wouldput the correct income down
(28:22):
because it's the legal and themoral, ethical right thing to
do.
No, we're talking about thingsabout like dress codes, for
example.
We're talking about how to writecustomers up, how to like a
repair order up, how tocommunicate with them, how we
sell a car, when we presentfigures.
You know, the first one that'son the list here, and I'll bring
this up because it's an easy oneto talk about, we'll talk about
(28:42):
dress codes.
If you look through the years inour industry on what that looked
like, there was a time where itwas suit and tie every single
day that everybody wore.
Yeah, no doubt.
It was suit and tie.
And then it moved to where itwas just tie and button-up
shirt.
You know, and now it's evolvedto more of a polo style, still
(29:06):
professional, but moreapproachable.
Yes.
And that's evolved.
And if you didn't evolve, youknow, there's some customers in
our industry, and we'restreamlined automotive that we
sell, that they would kind offill out of place if we were all
in suit and tie every singleday.
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
I think it's just a looking and seeing, you know,
you you have to be adaptable.
We haven't gone to just, hey,wear whatever you want.
Right?
You know what I mean?
We're not just saying, hey, wearwhatever you want.
I think our unwritten butwritten rule is you can wear,
you know, the dress code that'sprovided, you know, the button
up shirt, white shirt, grayshirt, or black shirt, or above.
(29:47):
Right?
So we have to have that thebaseline of appearance so that
you're professional.
Because what happens if there'sno written rule is pure chaos.
SPEAKER_05 (29:56):
You you have to have a written rule because if not,
it gets out of control.
SPEAKER_02 (29:59):
Yeah, you go to Lowe's.
And you don't know who's thereto help you, right?
And I'm not talking about whenwe used to have blue shirts, but
um you're like, hey, so you haveto be clearly identifiable as I
work here and I'm able to helpyou, right?
And so that's the idea.
And then we said, hey, there issome leisure for our
non-customer facing employees.
Let's give them Lewis logo stuffuh that is not a dress shirt,
(30:20):
right?
And so we've just tried to stayadaptable.
You know, like in our um ourFriday, our our kickoff events
and our Fridays, like we want toembrace, and that's gone from
last year, it was the the daybefore the Super Bowl or the
Friday before a Super Bowl,everyone got to wear the game
day attire.
Well, this year marketing waslike, hey, they didn't know any
better.
I love it.
And they were like, hey, everyFriday, and that would normally
(30:42):
be Razorback Friday.
They're like, hey, where areyour favorite team?
And it's been fun, right?
And then it was like, you canwear jeans.
Sure.
Wear some joggers that areprofessional, right?
Where are your favorite kick?
Okay.
Uh, and you can see just thesmiles come out in people,
right?
And so there's some adaptabilitythere.
SPEAKER_05 (30:58):
I I think what we got to be careful of there, and
we've set a good enough example,but I'm just reminding everybody
else, you gotta be careful thereis hey, no, that was on Friday.
SPEAKER_04 (31:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:07):
Okay.
That doesn't mean now Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday, you know,
you all of a sudden you havejeans and untucked shirt.
Yeah.
You know, you still have to haverules.
You just have to adapt as thechange of time adapts.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
Yeah, because otherwise it loses its luster.
It does.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, well, who works here and
who does?
Yeah, right.
Who's the dude in the Lakersjersey over there on a
Wednesday?
Like, does he work here?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:28):
Or it's no different than Halloween when we all dress
up in costumes.
Like everybody's dressing uptogether.
You can tell that's the cultureof the day.
Yeah.
And it's not like, well, I justdecided to order, you know, this
Hall Halloween costume becauseit came 50% off and I'm gonna
wear it during Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
No, what?
No, thank you.
Like you can do that on your owntime.
So you still gotta have thoserules.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Yeah, no, it's so important to have that.
But then allowing to bestructured in that, but then
doing those different thingsreally opens it up to the
customer, to the employees tohave that different type of
experience situation.
And I think you gotta adapt thatway too.
SPEAKER_05 (32:01):
Yeah.
What do you guys think aboutoutdated assumptions that stifle
growth?
So when you start thinking aboutthat of assumptions like that
people like just assume, here'swhat I do.
But it's really, and I'm talkingabout from an employee
standpoint, because then itslows growth down.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
I think there's a good part in job roles and
responsibilities, you know, thatI would say is one of my first
go-tos is okay, my job, whatdoes that entitle to me do in a
daily, right?
Like what are my roles andresponsibilities?
Like, if I just went throughthat.
So I think there's some outdatedassumptions of what a sales
manager does, what asalesperson, what a delivery
(32:43):
specialist, what a serviceadvisor, what assistant and
service advisor does.
So that's something that in thelast year we've gone through and
slowly updated those positions.
And most of them uh all say atthe bottom, and all other things
that are seen to be needed inyour position or any and all
departments.
Right?
Because we realize if it wasn'twritten down, then it wasn't
(33:04):
assumed, and then they were justlike, that's not my job.
Which is not the culture.
I go over that every single cakeday of thanking everyone for
going above and beyond.
That every time we have anemployee of the month, it's hey,
this person does way more thantheir job role says they need
to.
But I think that's one of thosethings that can be an outdated
assumption of no, I'm just to dothis.
SPEAKER_05 (33:25):
You know, I'm gonna take the flip side of that and
I'm gonna take exactly what yousaid because we have some
people, all differentpersonalities in our business,
and some people that are arevery strict rule followers.
Yeah.
Okay.
And if you come out with a newway to do a position or handle a
situation, and if you don't tellthem you don't need to do the
(33:45):
old way anymore, we have foundsome people following the rules.
Like, why are you still doingthat?
Well, that's what I'm supposedto do.
So you didn't update them tosay, okay, here's the new one,
take the old one out.
And I've scratched my headbefore.
And you know, if you're not thatway and you can pivot, which we
all can, you logically think ifwe're doing the new one, I don't
(34:07):
need to do the old one.
But I promise you, you haveemployees that are still doing
both.
Yeah.
They're still doing both.
SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
You have to be super clear.
And that's something we we'relike, what the heck?
Why is that person still parkingthere?
Or why are they not doing this?
It's because we weren't, we wereas clear as mud, right?
Yeah.
We just said, here's a excuseme, here's a new game plan,
here's what we're doing movingforward.
If you have any questions, letme know.
They're never gonna come to youand say, hey, I've got
questions.
I mean, rarely someone will, butthen be like, am I supposed to
(34:37):
still do this one and that one?
Yeah.
And you're like, my bad.
Hey, this supersedes the oldone.
So you cannot assume that anyoneknows anything.
SPEAKER_05 (34:44):
And so I think that that's when that it'll stifle
growth.
And I'll I'll tell a funny storyhere.
So we have one of our managersthat I had consistently sent
information to and podcast andbooks to read and this and that.
And he had latched on to aperson that was doing podcast.
This is four years ago.
And he'd latched on to them.
(35:05):
And it's it's not been sixmonths ago that this person came
back up to me and they said,So-and-so you sent to me.
Their stuff's kind of gettingoutdated.
Should I listen to anybody else?
And and I'm like, whoa.
I was like, Yeah.
I said, Look, can I sharesomething with you?
At any point in time, I got 10or 15 different people coming in
(35:27):
here because some people don'tget on highs and lows, but that
was they were stifling their owngrowth because they were just
caught in that one run of apodcast I had told about four
years ago.
And just because I hadn't shownthem a new one, they hadn't
gotten out of that rut.
SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
I think that's specifically giving them fish to
eat or teaching them how tofish.
And sometimes we're teachingthem how to fish without saying,
hey, I'm teaching you how tofish.
I'm teaching you how to learn.
And so for the next time, I'mnot gonna bring you another one.
You go find one that you like.
Like, here's how you do it,because otherwise, they're just
sitting there waiting for thenext fish.
(36:06):
And you're like, No, no, no, Itaught you how to fish.
And they're like, Oh, I Ithought you were just putting me
down here to receive.
SPEAKER_05 (36:13):
I I think the biggest thing to wrap all this
up, and you know, you used aparts terminology of of
superseding, you know, in ourparts department.
That means when a new partnumber comes out, it supersedes
the old one.
You can no longer order that oldpart number.
It actually won't even let youdo it.
It's got a new updated part thatthe manufacturer has fixed
whatever issue was with thatpart.
(36:34):
Yep.
It superseded it.
Okay.
And I think that's a greatreminder to me, too, is when we
come out with something new,more than likely, it superseded
something that was old.
And if we don't talk about that,that will stifle growth there.
You know how questioning normsunlocks creativity and
opportunity.
And I love this one.
(36:55):
And this one will not come tolife in your business if you
don't do it.
Your employees are not gonnaquestion the normalcy of how you
advertise, how your processesare, when when lunch break is,
you know, when benefits comeout, all these things.
It's your job to question thatstuff.
(37:16):
And especially when they see youquestion something that you came
out with, they're like, okay,this person's adaptive and open
to changing even what they putin place.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
Yeah, I know that's that's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
I think if you uh not always control the things
yourself, if you allow to havesomebody outside of of your
headspace or outside of yourdepartment, it's not different
than Craig and his marketingteam is like hey, I'm gonna let
you guys handle this and I wantyou to get creative control
because it's it's gonna be acomplete different idea than
what you had.
And as long as it's relevant andbrings in what you need, then I
(37:52):
think that's great, right?
That's questioning the normal ofno, I'm the one that always
comes up with this and doesthis.
And one, you're bogging yourselfdown stuff you didn't need to
bog yourself down with, and two,they have a complete different
outlook.
You know, you said something theother day, and it this is kind
of pointless because I I can'tremember specifically what it
was, but you were talking aboutit on the kickoff Friday, and
you said, Hey, we need to dothis, this, and this.
(38:14):
And I said, Marketing's alreadydone that.
He's like, Oh, never mind, thatwas a bad idea.
And I said, No, what a bad idea.
Someone else just came up withit and already executed it,
right?
Uh, and so allowing to get outof the norm of doing this and
this unlocks new creativecreativity and new opportunity.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
The hard thing, and I was talking about this with
one of y'all the other day.
You can uh look this back and uhreference it to like your kid
growing up.
Whenever you start to not do thenorm of I'm doing this every
single day, and let your othermanagers, your other department
heads start to run, learn towalk everything through the
(38:49):
process of you pulling back,they're gonna trip and fall,
they're gonna mess up.
It's okay.
I had removed myself from a spotthat I always sit at, more so
just to gauge, not to doanything in there, but just to
hear and always know what'sgoing on.
And I'd remove myself for acouple of days and X, Y, and Z
happened.
And I went back and I was like,come on, you're telling me I've
(39:12):
sat here for this long and youhadn't picked up and you can't
do this.
So you have to know that youhave to let them make mistakes.
Be there to be able to help themand guide them.
But if you want that area togrow, not being the norm, you
have to let them grow.
SPEAKER_05 (39:28):
You know, one last thing I want to bring up here,
and it probably should havebrought up earlier, but I think
it's a great example.
We can all relate to this.
We all live in the whole Walmartcountry.
And when you talk about breakingthe rules, but not letting it
really affect your business.
You know, we talked about theinvestment side, take a smaller
chunk and put it at higher risk.
When you look at Walmart, andit's funny because we were at
(39:49):
Pea Ridge last weekend, so wewere talking about this.
Walmart broke the rules ondelivering stuff to houses.
And they didn't know for sure ifit was gonna work.
So that that amount ofinvestment they put and they
said, if it works, great.
If it doesn't, it's not gonnacripple our business.
And then they opened up a coupledifferent places.
Out in Farmington, they had thedrone that did delivery.
(40:11):
When we were up in Pea Ridge,they had, I don't even know what
they call that, the airplane.
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
It's like an airplane, it's a slingshot and
comes and lands kind of in a netor a cable.
So two complete two same ideasof going to you, right?
Without a vehicle on the road,but two complete different ways
of how to do it.
SPEAKER_05 (40:28):
So then they said, okay, let's break the rules
without it breaking thebusiness.
Yeah.
We set this amount aside.
Yeah.
You know, it's no different thanif if, you know, if I go to the
horse race track, which I don'tgo very often, I set aside, hey,
I'm gonna spend a couple hundreddollars, and when that's out,
it's out.
Okay.
And I had I had fun, but Ididn't leverage the house.
It didn't affect my family'swell-being.
(40:50):
Well, it's not a mean thing.
It didn't put us all the wayunder.
That's the same thing.
It's okay to take risk and breakthe rules, but just don't
leverage your business.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Nope.
100% there.
Hey, going into a question here.
What's one rule you followed forway too long before realizing it
was actually holding thebusiness back?
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
So I've been racking my brain.
I looked at that and was like,hmm, but I have one, so I'll go
ahead and then you can figureout yours.
Um it's actually exactly whatyou were just talking about.
Okay.
Um, and so you talked about, andwe it's funny because we talk
about and seem like we have allthe answers figured out.
We don't, I assure you.
Most of the time we're justtalking about like, whoops,
don't do that.
(41:30):
Uh is when we have changed aCRM, when we have changed a
service write-up tool, when wehave changed anything that's a
system or a process, one of ourbiggest downfalls, because
generally we are very committalpeople.
When we're in, we are all in.
We have not been very good at, Ihave not been very good at at
(41:52):
sample testing things.
You know, just say, hey, ifwe're, I'm like Craig, we're
gonna do this, let's run thisagainst the whole company.
Well, then we don't really havealternate options to see was
traffic off just as a norm, orwas it because the marketing new
campaign was just bad?
So then we don't have thosedifferent sample tests.
(42:13):
So the rule that that we have tocontinue to break is to not put
it all the eggs in one basket toswitch to this.
The problem was is we wanted tobe able to change that, vet it,
and then be able to train theentire team on it.
Uh, and so sometimes that woulddefinitely stun our growth if it
was not a good move or if therewas a large training moment or a
downsize moment for the for thecustomers as we learned and
(42:35):
trained on that.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
That's good.
I'll tell you mine, it's a it'sa pretty easy one.
And y'all will relate as soon asI said that, as soon as I say
this, is the strict rule ofeverybody in variable has to
work every single Saturday.
SPEAKER_04 (42:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (42:49):
You know, that that was one.
And then finally, when we brokethat and we said, hey, let's
give salespeople at least aSaturday off a month.
Let's give managers at least aSaturday off a month.
And if somebody's sellingenough, let's give them every
Saturday off if they needed tobe.
And that really held held usback from recruitment side for
(43:10):
people that had stuff going onwith their family, you know, and
retention side.
Yeah.
You know, so once once wechanged that, it was business
actually went up.
Right.
We thought we were gonna lose itbecause we didn't have everybody
here on Saturday, but itactually went up.
Our retention of peopleinvariable went up.
Yep.
Uh, because we broke broke oneof the other rules.
SPEAKER_02 (43:31):
Yeah.
And uh it's important to measurethat and realize it it it'll be
okay, right?
With proper structure andprocedure.
You still have to have thestructure.
It is super important.
And then we got when they cometo you and they're like, hey, I
only sold 18 last month.
I was like, okay, yeah, let mehelp break that down per your
time.
Let me put some value on yourtime.
You left at three every singleday and you only worked one
Saturday.
And they're like, huh, okay,that was pretty good.
(43:52):
It's like, okay, just wanted tokeep us all in check.
You have a great day.
Uh, I'll be here till 7, 7:30.
But if you need anything, let meknow.
Um, right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Yeah, both of those are really good.
Y'all hit on uh both areas thatI think would be something
that's definitely held us backthere and we we've grown moving
forward.
But great episode today.
Went through a lot.
It was expedited, as Shelbysaid, last day of the month.
So we're putting it together,but absolutely bringing you
relevant content that will makedifference in your business if
(44:23):
you'll put it in place.
Always check us out at LewisSuperstore.com to check out the
specials and at CrossroadsConversation Podcast.com.
Hit the like, hit the subscribe.
Please hit us with any questionsthat you do have so that way we
can bring you on the show, bringthose on the show and be
relevant to you and yourbusiness.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to give it a like, share it
(44:46):
with your friends and family,and visit our website to send us
questions about what you wouldlike to know about the
automotive industry or familybusiness in general.
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way, and we'll doour best to answer any questions
that you have.
Thank you again, and we'll seeyou in future shows.
You know, the unwritten rules leaders should
challenge.
So as you guys think about thatfor just a second, unwritten
rules that leaders shouldchallenge.
We started tipping into thatearlier on in here is, you know,
when you're in a meeting andsomebody says, Well, that's how
we've always done it.
Say, well, you can ask them thenext question.
We talk about questions in here.
(00:21):
Well, why do you think we do itthat way?
What is the result?
Why do we do it that way?
If they don't have a goodanswer, you need to challenge
that.
Hey everyone, welcome toCrossroad Conversations with the
Lewis Brothers, where we aim toshare real stories about running
a successful family business,working through adversity, and
(00:43):
pouring back into the communitythat keeps our door open.
We're your host, Matt Shelby,and Taylor, and we bring you
relevant local business adviceand automotive insights that are
sure to change the way you lookat running a business.
And maybe even throw in a plugfor you to do business with us.
Welcome back to CrossroadConversation with the Lewis
(01:03):
Brothers.
We are the Lewis Brothers, andthis is episode 57.
This one's gonna be fun today.
Breaking the rules.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Hey, so you want to break the rules?
Can you get this done?
Because it's the last day of themonth and 30 minutes are left.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
Strap in, put it in drive, open the nitrous tank,
and here we go.
Because today we're talkingabout rule breaking, not
reckless rule breaking, okay?
No.
But the times of business andleadership when the following
the playbook, it might hold youback.
You gotta say, hey, hold thisand watch this.
All right.
Most leaders are taught tofollow best practices, and we've
(01:37):
talked a lot about that in thisepisode or in this podcast, but
best practices aren't always theright practices for your
business.
Rule-breaking moments oftencreate innovation, trust, and
growth.
You know, great leaders knowwhen to play by the rules and
then when to write their own.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
I love that.
Hey, if you didn't already tunein to last week's episode,
episode 56, we talk about theslow death of success, how to
spot complacency as it'shappening, as it's been
happening, and what to do beforeit's time to pull the cord.
So check that out.
As always, uh, our last episode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, check us out at LewisSuperstore.com for the French
specials, everything we've gotgoing on in company wise.
And as podcast-wise, check usout at Crossroads Conversation
Podcast.com online.
Subscribe of whatever yourlistening channel is, of um
podcast, YouTube, anything elselike that.
Hey, in the garage this week, Ilove this vehicle.
(02:37):
It is like a billiger.
We talked about the Ranger lastweek, but the Ford Bronco Sport
is the best of both worlds.
It gets you the optimal fueleconomy without sacrificing any
off-road capability.
You're talking about being ableto go drive every single day,
get 30 plus miles a gallon, thenon the weekend go and engage the
goat modes, which everybodydoesn't know that.
(02:58):
That's a Bronco, so I'm gonna goover any terrain.
Go over any terrain.
So they have everything from abig bin starting out at the
$29,000 mark all the way up tothe bad lanes.
It is your rugged, capable frontrear locker, sasquatch package,
off-road ready.
It is an awesome unit, and yougot to come check them out.
SPEAKER_05 (03:19):
I tell you what I love about the Bronco sport,
it's just it's fun.
Yeah.
It's just fun.
Yeah.
It's an everyday driver, it'seasy to maneuver, it gets great
fuel mileage, visibility's greatout of it, but it's fun.
Yep.
You know, it injects fun backinto an affordable, capable
vehicle.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
That's what it is.
It's not a stripped version of aBronco or a cheater version.
It's a smaller, more compact,just as capable.
It's no different between theJeep Wrangler and the old box
Cherokee.
Yep.
Right?
Just as capable.
And new for this year, it's gotmodular front bumper.
It's got tie-downs on the sidefor your canoes or kayaks, which
is just genius.
(03:57):
It has new tech, so it's got ahuge big screen.
So it's not like you didn't getthe technology of the wireless
Apple CarPlay or all thosethings.
And it's an affordable, so youcan get into that Bronco segment
for under 30 grand.
Yep.
It just makes sense.
It just does.
It just makes sense.
I was gonna say it just makessense.
So let's take a Bronco sportfrom our garage and put it in
(04:17):
yours.
Let's do it.
Right?
That's where it is.
All right, this week we'retalking about rules that hold
businesses back.
SPEAKER_04 (04:23):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
You'd be like, no, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good,
I'm good.
Like, no, no, no.
There are some rules that neededto be there, but in certain
times you need to know when tohold them and know when to fold
them, right?
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
I think there's there's two categories in my
brain, and I want to get y'all'stake on this, but there's two
categories in my brain aboutlike when you break the rules
that you've done or you swayfrom them, okay?
And here's two categories.
And I think the first one I sayis where most people are gonna
go to in their mind of whenthey've not followed the rules,
but they've had a good outcome.
(04:55):
I don't mean about not followingthe rules and it got you in
trouble.
You know what I mean?
Whether it's financially,legally, or whatever it may be.
No, we're talking about whereyou actually had some success
there.
The the first category is there,it's when you're in the middle
of a situation or an issue, andit's more of a fight or flight
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
With a customer, with an employee, just a
situation that needs attentionright then.
SPEAKER_05 (05:17):
Right then.
And you actually, you've heardus talk about on this podcast
where you got to slow down andlisten, make sure your emotions
aren't involved.
But I'm talking about a realsituation where you're not even
looking for the rule book.
You're just making decisionsbased upon, you know, your gut.
SPEAKER_04 (05:31):
Goes back to the gut we talked about.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (05:33):
Yep.
It does.
So I think that's where mostpeople go when we talk about,
hey, breaking the rules, becausethey think about a situation
where they had to actimmediately and they didn't even
look for the rule book.
I I want to then go to thesecond category, and I think
that's where we'll talk abouthere, is where you start talking
about the rules of that's whatthe way the industry is, or
that's the way we've always doneit.
(05:55):
Yep.
And and that's the area that Ithink may be holding businesses
back.
And we've heard us talk aboutthis before, but we've been in
business for 79 years, and we'vesat in many meetings, and the
three of us have looked eachother at each other when
employees said something,they're like, where did that
come from?
When another employee says,Well, this is how we do it, it's
(06:15):
how we've always done it.
I'm like, says who?
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
And that's that's important understanding layers
deep, right?
We've talked about it aboutsitting in different areas and
kind of seeing like, and justasking, hey, where'd that come
from?
Hey, I hadn't heard that in awhile, where'd that come from?
And they're like, that's alwayshow it's been done.
So I think that's importantthere of understanding that gut
feeling breaking the rules orthat this is how we've done it.
(06:38):
And I think both of those, whendone uh correctly, can be good.
But when done incorrectly,because a lot of times, like you
said, if they go with a gutfeeling but they don't have the
production, then it was a loselose.
Right?
So that's important that youunderstand that it's okay to
call that audible, but if you'rethat quarterback calling that
(06:59):
audible, or that sales manageror that manager calling that
audible and it didn't turn outwell, then you better learn from
that.
Don't waste that.
But do not repeat that becauseit was not good.
SPEAKER_05 (07:10):
And I would say, so on top of that, when you
identify a rule or I'm gonna saya process too, because uh, you
know, the word process is used awhole lot more business than
rules.
And but your process is kind oflike the rule, the way you do
business.
Um so if a process, if theexplanation from your employees
(07:31):
or your management is we do thatbecause we've always done it
that way, or that's the way thisindustry does, it's time for you
to reevaluate that.
Yeah.
And one, maybe it still is agood process, but nobody knows
the meaning and the purposeanymore.
They're now saying, hey, let'swe're doing this because I was
(07:51):
taught 20 years ago to do itthis way.
Well, but it's not just becauseyou were taught to do that, it's
because it equaled a greatresult.
Or maybe it's not getting agreat result anymore, and you
need to break that rule, andwe've got to develop a new one
that actually accomplishes whatwe're after.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
And the biggest thing there is changes, right?
Industry changes, peoplechanges, process changes will
change what your process needsto be there.
So think about that.
Rules that sound safe, policiesthat sound safe to cover you,
which some are necessary,oftentimes will cap growth.
Thinking grow slow and steady,which is very important.
(08:30):
We see vendors all the time thatwe sign up with, we like because
they're a niche market.
Then they're like, hey, if twopeople are good or if 20 clients
are good and if 50 clients aregood, then 150x are revenue,
then they can't handle that,right?
So that's where slow and steadyis good.
But think on the other side, ifyou don't take risk in your
marketing or you only hirepeople with current industry
(08:53):
experience, you may never know.
SPEAKER_05 (08:56):
I I think an easy way to relate this, Shelby,
maybe for our audience tounderstand this, is first, and I
know we're gonna get to thislater, but don't put all your
eggs in one basket.
Okay.
And I want to relate that to theinvesting world.
All right.
So when you look at somebody'sportfolio of investing, it's
not, hey, put all my money inone thing.
SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (09:19):
It's put, depending upon what stage you're at, put
some of it in safe, putting someof it in risk, and putting some
of it in high risk.
Now you define that however youwant to, but you're not putting
it all in high risk, which highrisk would be like breaking the
rules.
Yep.
There could be great upside toit, but you don't want to bet
the entire farm on it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
So with the employees, do not get all the
same type of person.
SPEAKER_05 (09:43):
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Right?
You're not just getting the runof the gun, I follow no rules,
and like you can keep them inthe bounds.
Like, that's okay to have one ortwo, right?
Because when they hit, they hitbig.
Yeah.
Right?
You're like, whoa, you turned400 hours.
Like, I know it was crash, boom,bang, but the job got done
correctly.
It was a little uh unorthodoxish, but you did it correctly.
(10:06):
We didn't really break anyindustry rules.
Uh, but if you have all ofthose, it's a scheduling
nightmare, it's a where are mypeople at nightmare.
But if you have multipledifferent ones and you got the
soul and steady gray mare,you've got the crazy racehorse,
you've got the long shot youdon't know anything about.
And then that helps kind ofdiversify.
SPEAKER_05 (10:26):
It really does.
So then it allows you to do bothbecause then on your risk side
over there, if you see theupside potential, you move over
in and that becomes then steadygrowth there, you move more over
that way.
Yeah.
Uh one of the things uh in ourindustry we need to talk about
that were the rules forever, butwe've needed to break, and we've
talked a lot about thisrecently, is when we give
(10:50):
customers figures on buying avehicle.
You know, if if you look at howthe rules were forever in the
automotive industry, it was hey,don't give people values on the
vehicle they're buying, on theirtrade and monthly payment, down
payment until they're ready tobuy.
Yeah.
You know, so it was in the past,it was like, hey, they're just
gonna take your numbers andthey're gonna go shop with
(11:11):
everybody else.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
And so let me, I have to stop you and point this
out.
I just saw this this morningabout giving numbers.
This seems basic, but in ourindustry, it's a lot of school
hard knocks.
It drives us nuts because weknow what we know, but getting a
team.
So this comes from cardealership guy.
This came across this morning.
Says one of the this year'sbiggest wins for car shoppers is
(11:36):
clarity at the deal table.
Says nearly half of dealersreported higher customer
satisfaction.
In 84% of those cases, buyerspointed to clear deal details as
the reason.
The biggest operators aren'tburying fees in fine print
anymore.
Like all the details up front.
Yeah.
(11:56):
Like we just, I think we're theonly person in the state of
Arkansas that has our dock feeon the website.
There will be no other dollaradded to the deal.
That's what you for.
That's exactly what you can seeat online, everyone qualifies
for.
And the payoff to this is moretrust and more repeat business,
which everyone wants.
(12:16):
Yeah, right?
A clear deal.
SPEAKER_05 (12:19):
Uh, you know, I go to the real estate industry on
that when you bring that up, andnobody likes this, but they
understand it because it's clearbefore you go close on a piece
of property or on a house, youget, you know, you got you get
your HUD settlement, and it'sgonna, there's eight gazillion
fees on that.
Yeah.
Okay.
But they're all listed out andit's clear.
(12:39):
And before you go close, youknow exactly to the penny how
much you're doing for that.
That's a major shift in ourbusiness that we've been talking
about.
Give everybody figures.
Meet them where they are, givethem the trade value, give them
your best price, give themestimates on monthly payments,
so on and so forth.
So that's a rule that we'vebroken because there needed to
(13:02):
be a new process put in placefor today's customer.
SPEAKER_02 (13:05):
Yeah, it's no different than we said don't
mark up the rate.
Yep.
Or if the bank gives us the ratefor, we'll give it to you.
SPEAKER_05 (13:10):
And how many people looked at us like you are nuts?
They still do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
In our 20 groups, uh, any industry person's like,
you're crazy, you're throwingaway money.
And we said, clarity andtransparency, transactional
units and operation is our goal.
SPEAKER_05 (13:25):
And I think that's when you're you're able to have
these multiple hats on andvisions of short-term gain and
long-term gain at the same time.
Because when we made thatmassive decision, not only did
we do that, we still um bonusedour finance managers on loss of
income there because we knew itwas worth the investment from
(13:46):
our perspective.
We could get more deals becausecustomers were getting lower
rates because we didn't mark upthe rate at all.
It was a buy-sell.
And in turn, we got morecustomers, then it would keep
them in our cycle more becausenobody else was beating the
rates.
They're more likely to come backto us the next time.
So, again, there's anothergreat, great example on how we
(14:06):
broke the rules.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
All right, that was 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_05 (14:08):
That's not bad.
I got one more for you thoughbefore we got to go on to the
next part.
Let me tell you where else webroke the rules.
Tell me.
We stopped scheduling oilchanges.
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
Right?
And when the kickback was sodeep from that, the manufacturer
was here and said, Why are younot because they had a tool,
right?
And they were like, you need toopen up more availability and
said, Why don't you come downhere and let's show this to you?
SPEAKER_05 (14:30):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
And so we showed them that we could do like 50%
more than their scheduler wouldever allow by saying, and then
here's a secret that they didn'twant to know that if one was
full, we had double the capacity28 steps away.
They didn't want to see it, butwe didn't care.
And so we broke that industryrule.
Yep.
Because we saw other peopledoing it.
SPEAKER_05 (14:52):
We saw other people do it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
There were not specifics not OEM.
SPEAKER_05 (14:56):
And I think that's what's important is you always
we talk about it all the time,like rise above so you can see
the entire forest.
We saw everybody else that wasout there doing it great.
We said, why are we followingthis 1970s procedure from the
OEMs?
Break those rules and let's gohere.
And if it blows up, if it blowsup, we can go back to
(15:16):
scheduling.
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
And which it did a little bit uh that there was
people like, no, I we'd createdthe habit of scheduling, so we
had to go back to team and say,hey, no appointments necessary,
but if they want to make one,make one make one.
Stand out there with bells onand say, Welcome, Mr.
Smith, for your appointment.
We have a bay waiting for you.
And they were like, What?
We are or aren't?
What are we doing?
(15:37):
It's like, yes.
Both.
People probably hate us for thatbecause I'll say, look, I need
you to not do anything elseexcept do this, unless you see
somebody that needs something.
And they're like, what?
And I'm like, I need you with atrucker headset out on the lot,
greeting people and making allyour phone calls.
And like, so you want me to makemy phone calls or you want me to
greet people?
I said, both trucker headset.
Microphone up means that you'reready to talk to the people,
(15:58):
microphone down means you'retalking to people.
And you might take your headsetoff and hand it to someone else
and you talk to them and youtalk to them.
SPEAKER_05 (16:04):
The championship teams have the ability to do
that in the moment.
That's where we're going.
And we hold high level ofaccountability.
We're not there yet, but we arefor sure pushing to that.
All right, which automakernearly collapsed in the 2000s
because they ignored key safetyand quality rules.
That's a big one.
They ignored key safety andquality rules.
(16:26):
Was it A Ford, B, Chrysler, CGeneral Motors, or D Toyota?
I'd like to throw out the firsttwo just because there are
brands.
Ford and Chrysler.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Selfishly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
Then that leaves you General Motors or Toyota.
I'm trying to remember which onewas probably the last that you
saw metal keys, because that'swhat they're talking about, that
the key didn't have the correctprogramming or safety features
or anything else.
But it's General Motors.
It's General Motors.
Yeah, it's General Motors.
Yes, absolutely.
Hey, dive into when rulebreaking backfires.
(16:58):
So when rule breaking backfires.
So when you go past thethreshold of what you really
need to do in the moment there,so bold versus reckless line
between smart risk andshortcuts.
SPEAKER_05 (17:10):
I'm going to say right there, this is what stands
out in my mind.
When it backfires is when youleverage too much and you put
too many eggs in one basket.
We started talking about itbefore.
But if you're going to trysomething new, like no
appointment scheduling or thisor that, if it blows up, you
still have to think, okay.
If it blows up, is it gonna buryour business?
(17:33):
No.
No.
We could have lost a little bitof customers in the short term.
We can pivot, put schedulingback in place, and keep rocking
on.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
I think the important part is learning when
to pivot and adapt.
And it's not from the noise,right?
The noise is important of likethis will never work, this will
never work, the naysayer noise,but of just actually like being
in the field and talking tocustomers and then being able
to, you know, it's kind of likethe EV, like, oh, should we buck
this trend?
Should we buck this trend?
(18:01):
What should we do?
Like, okay, we're gonna go in.
We're not gonna go all in.
We're not saying, hey, Ford,let's just make electric
vehicles, but then being able toquickly adapt.
Same thing on the appointmentsfor the old changes versus not
needing those, and then saying,hey, we're gonna adapt.
And it's okay that we were wrongor we missed it a little bit,
but you can't just the bold andreckless.
Sometimes people start takingshortcuts because it's easier.
(18:22):
Yeah.
And then the results aren'tthere, like we talked about.
And it's like, hey, so you needto have your systems check along
the way, you know, at midwaythrough the day or into the days
of the month, and you're going,hey, in the first quarter, in
the second quarter, and thenthird quarter, like, hey, how's
this going?
Okay, we let this guy set hisown schedule so that he can come
and go as he pleased, but he hadto hit 20 units this month.
(18:44):
Okay, it's halfway through themonth.
We're at four car deals.
Let's have a checkup.
We're not reeling him all theway back in, but we're saying,
hey, here's what's going on.
Then three quarters of the waythrough the month, we're saying,
hey, here's where we're at.
You were supposed to be at 16.
We're now at seven and a half.
Here's what I want to do.
And you're not gonna say, you behere tomorrow at eight, you stay
through seven, what you're gonnado because you need some buy-in
(19:04):
and say, hey, let's try this.
I see some opportunity, and Ijust sent out a mail piece and I
just did a bunch of direct mailthat's going to the customers
and they're coming directly tothis building to see you guys.
Do you think it would be okayfor the next five days?
I could get you somewhere froman eight to a 630 to 645 if I
was able to show you how to gofrom eight car deals to 20 car
(19:27):
deals.
Sure.
Right.
And then after whatever happensthere, you're like, hey, that
was bold that we changed that alittle bit.
Thank you for being adaptable.
Now, what's our hybrid systemfor you to be able to work your
own schedule, but also get yourunits in production?
SPEAKER_05 (19:42):
Yeah, and I think like when you when you talk
about this about backfiring onbold versus being reckless, with
the amount of information outthere on podcasts just like
ours, or you're talking about acar dealership guy, with all
that stuff out there, youprobably can learn from somebody
else to put this in place.
And your team still thinks thatit is revolutionary-wise.
(20:04):
It might not have been inautomotive, you know, but
another industry did it.
So you can be bold with doingsomething that the other OEMs
are not doing up and down theroad, but you're not reckless
because you saw the case studyat Procter and Gamble or at XYZ.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
And let me tell you, even the brass tags that
sometimes you think you losecredibility if you say, if you
don't say this is my idea, it'sthe other way around.
If you'll say, hey guys, I'vebeen studying this for the last
six months and Procter andGamble has spent$8.4 million on
this, or hey, this industry orChevy's been doing this, or hey,
(20:40):
we saw this over at Walmart,they've already worked this out.
Now we're gonna adapt it toautomotive because no one's done
it.
Yep.
And you think like, no, you'rethe leader, you need to bring
the idea.
Copy somebody else's idea that'salready proven, and they're
like, Walmart's doing it, it'sgotta be proven, right?
SPEAKER_05 (20:57):
I I think you hit on the the next point, too, there
is in order for it to not bereckless, you still need your
team's buy-in.
SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
No doubt.
SPEAKER_05 (21:06):
And again, we're not talking about the situation
where the building's on fire.
We're talking about going a newway, but you still need buy-in.
SPEAKER_04 (21:13):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (21:13):
Because when it becomes reckless is when you're
on the island by yourself andyou're hollering at the team
back on shore instead ofexplaining to them, we're all
going to the island together andhere's how we're going to do
this.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
And probably how you keep that in line is is
processing controls, kind ofgoing areas you shouldn't
bypass.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
So areas you shouldn't bypass of talk about,
you know, quality, finance, uh,logic or legal and ethical
thoughts, um, kind of how youThat's all of those areas,
whether it's your quality, likein your repair stuff, or you're
doing what you said you're gonnado, uh, even when no one's
looking, uh, finance, uh, yourlegal, your ethics, or your
(21:56):
safety.
There's no shortcut or there areno rule breaks to any of those.
And your team needs to know veryclearly, like, hey, we're gonna
be adaptable, we're gonna benimble, and we are gonna pivot
when necessary.
And when we find something thatworks, we're gonna go all in.
But nowhere is it okay.
And you've heard us talk aboutit before.
Even if it says it makes acouple extra million dollars,
(22:18):
like haven't seen one of thoseideas yet, but even if it makes
a couple extra million dollarsto go against any of those
things.
The quality, even if you find ashortcut on a recall and it
says, hey, it takes eight hoursto do this, but you can pop the
valve cover and look underneaththis cam phaser and you can see
it's okay.
So you button it back up,absolutely not.
You do the whole job.
In finance, if you could fudgethe income so it was an
(22:41):
auto-approval, absolutely not.
Yep.
And legal of putting thisperson's name on it versus that
person, absolutely not.
So, in all those things, yourethics and your safety without
putting your harness or yourhelmet or your safety glasses
on, absolutely not.
And that has to be very clear.
SPEAKER_05 (22:58):
And those are the filters you just put in place.
And and you can have yourmeeting, everybody can be wound
up and brainstorming, and youjust know we will pause and we
will run it through the filtersyou just talked about before we
will proceed forward.
Yep.
So you cannot lose contact withthe ground on that.
Okay.
And if it legally doesn't workor it messes and it tarnishes
(23:18):
your name or what you're about,that's one of those bad eggs
like on Willy Wonka.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
You know what I mean?
And that's where you'll alwaysfind, especially one of us in
there, that we're happy, golucky, everything else.
But as soon as it gets over thatthreshold, now I'm not gonna
embarrass somebody and just whipthem out in front of everybody,
but you better believe thatthere will be a conversation of
hard line, don't do that againor bad at.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
And it doesn't matter who, and it doesn't
matter what, right?
The rules are the rules.
And if you see somebody that'sthat's flirting with the idea,
then you're like, no, here'swhat we said we would do, and
we're going to do it.
I don't care what the deal lookslike.
We already committed to it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
You know, we already said we would do this.
I don't care where you messedup.
You get out there with yoursmiley face.
Yep.
Tell them congratulations.
And then you and I are gonna sitdown and see where the heck did
we mess up.
We, i.e.
you, but we're gonna say we uhand go through that because
that's a judge of theircharacter.
And if if their character slipsby doing it one time, yeah, just
(24:22):
like we talked about it in theclear process, then that's not
your people.
SPEAKER_05 (24:26):
And we have a radar out for that pretty high,
especially if we hire somebodythat has an experience at a
different store.
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (24:32):
Because we see that.
And and we even talk about that,you know, during an in view or
during onboarding, but we knowat some point in time it's gonna
be tested.
Oh.
Especially on a day like todaywhen it's the end of the month
and they're a couple car dealsaway from their goal, that's
when it'll poke its head out.
SPEAKER_04 (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (24:49):
And that's when emotions are gonna get involved,
but then that's when you reallyget to lay it down, going, nope,
it's not worth it to hit that.
That does not line up with ourethics and legal and what we
said we would uh uh hold.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
Putting those policies in in place, having
guardrails up to let youexperiment, go past those rules
without lighting the business onfire, without going past the
threshold is really Andoftentimes what's really helped
us from our CFO to ourcontroller to our office manager
to deal clerks to financemanagers, there's multiple
(25:24):
layers of backstops that arenon-biased, that don't care who
you are, what your job role is,and it's not I'm trying to hurt
your feelings or not trying tocall you out, not because I've
already called you out fourtimes today.
It's the rules are the rules,and this was not followed.
So what's going on?
Yep.
Right?
And those people help you haveno emotions evolved to say this
(25:44):
was wrong, this was right, wehave a pattern, let's look at
this.
That's super important there.
All right, mythbuster time, youguys ready?
Let's do it.
Tradition is always safe.
If it worked before, it'll keepworking.
Tradition is always safe.
If it worked before, it'll keepworking.
All right, what's your thoughts?
I think that's a trap.
SPEAKER_05 (26:04):
I I really do.
And what that does is it keepsyou from evolving and moving
forward.
Um, I I think that's just reallythe reason I pause there is
because it's it's a touchysubject for a lot of businesses
that have been highlysuccessful.
And you never have to lose sightof what you're about, what your
(26:28):
ethics, the way you do business,your morals.
But then there are things thatdo need to be adapted and
changed because industrieschange.
So I actually think it canhinder you and keep you from
moving forward.
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
Yep.
Uh I totally agree with that.
Like traditions are are verygood.
And it's what you're from, it'swhat you're about.
But just the same way thatpeople update logos with with
good feedback from people, notjust your inner circle, right?
It's okay to update thosethings, but just do a little bit
of inspection there.
We saw that with the crackerbarrel thing.
(27:00):
It's like, whoa, hang on.
Yeah.
Like, let's let's really ask allthe people, not just a few niche
people, uh, but be willing toadapt.
Because I'll tell you that withCracker Barrel, they made a
change and said, we ask all thepeople, they love it.
Well, the internet said, no way,no way.
And so then cracker barrel wassmart enough, like enough damage
had been done that they didn'tdig their feet in the ground.
And they said, Um, actually,we've heard you and we're going
(27:22):
back.
That's right.
We're going back, right?
To some tradition.
Um, so it's about having that uhbalance.
So that is busted.
Busted.
Markets, customer needs, andtechnology constantly evolve or
always evolving.
Traditions can become traps ifyou never change them.
SPEAKER_05 (27:39):
That's right.
You know, the unwritten rulesleaders should challenge.
So as you guys think about thatfor just a second, unwritten
rules that leaders shouldchallenge.
We started tipping into thatearlier on in here is you know,
when you're in a meeting andsomebody says, Well, that's how
we've always done it.
I say, Well, you can ask themthe next question.
(28:00):
We talk about questions in here.
Well, why do you think we do itthat way?
What is the result?
Why do we do it that way?
And if they don't have a goodanswer, you need to challenge
that.
Yeah.
And go, okay, what is thepurpose?
You know, and and again, we'renot talking about because it's
the law.
We're not talking about becauseit's in contract with the
finance companies that we wouldput the correct income down
(28:22):
because it's the legal and themoral, ethical right thing to
do.
No, we're talking about thingsabout like dress codes, for
example.
We're talking about how to writecustomers up, how to like a
repair order up, how tocommunicate with them, how we
sell a car, when we presentfigures.
You know, the first one that'son the list here, and I'll bring
this up because it's an easy oneto talk about, we'll talk about
(28:42):
dress codes.
If you look through the years inour industry on what that looked
like, there was a time where itwas suit and tie every single
day that everybody wore.
Yeah, no doubt.
It was suit and tie.
And then it moved to where itwas just tie and button-up
shirt.
You know, and now it's evolvedto more of a polo style, still
(29:06):
professional, but moreapproachable.
Yes.
And that's evolved.
And if you didn't evolve, youknow, there's some customers in
our industry, and we'restreamlined automotive that we
sell, that they would kind offill out of place if we were all
in suit and tie every singleday.
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
I think it's just a looking and seeing, you know,
you you have to be adaptable.
We haven't gone to just, hey,wear whatever you want.
Right?
You know what I mean?
We're not just saying, hey, wearwhatever you want.
I think our unwritten butwritten rule is you can wear,
you know, the dress code that'sprovided, you know, the button
up shirt, white shirt, grayshirt, or black shirt, or above.
(29:47):
Right?
So we have to have that thebaseline of appearance so that
you're professional.
Because what happens if there'sno written rule is pure chaos.
SPEAKER_05 (29:56):
You you have to have a written rule because if not,
it gets out of control.
SPEAKER_02 (29:59):
Yeah, you go to Lowe's.
And you don't know who's thereto help you, right?
And I'm not talking about whenwe used to have blue shirts, but
um you're like, hey, so you haveto be clearly identifiable as I
work here and I'm able to helpyou, right?
And so that's the idea.
And then we said, hey, there issome leisure for our
non-customer facing employees.
Let's give them Lewis logo stuffuh that is not a dress shirt,
(30:20):
right?
And so we've just tried to stayadaptable.
You know, like in our um ourFriday, our our kickoff events
and our Fridays, like we want toembrace, and that's gone from
last year, it was the the daybefore the Super Bowl or the
Friday before a Super Bowl,everyone got to wear the game
day attire.
Well, this year marketing waslike, hey, they didn't know any
better.
I love it.
And they were like, hey, everyFriday, and that would normally
(30:42):
be Razorback Friday.
They're like, hey, where areyour favorite team?
And it's been fun, right?
And then it was like, you canwear jeans.
Sure.
Wear some joggers that areprofessional, right?
Where are your favorite kick?
Okay.
Uh, and you can see just thesmiles come out in people,
right?
And so there's some adaptabilitythere.
SPEAKER_05 (30:58):
I I think what we got to be careful of there, and
we've set a good enough example,but I'm just reminding everybody
else, you gotta be careful thereis hey, no, that was on Friday.
SPEAKER_04 (31:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:07):
Okay.
That doesn't mean now Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday, you know,
you all of a sudden you havejeans and untucked shirt.
Yeah.
You know, you still have to haverules.
You just have to adapt as thechange of time adapts.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
Yeah, because otherwise it loses its luster.
It does.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, well, who works here and
who does?
Yeah, right.
Who's the dude in the Lakersjersey over there on a
Wednesday?
Like, does he work here?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:28):
Or it's no different than Halloween when we all dress
up in costumes.
Like everybody's dressing uptogether.
You can tell that's the cultureof the day.
Yeah.
And it's not like, well, I justdecided to order, you know, this
Hall Halloween costume becauseit came 50% off and I'm gonna
wear it during Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
No, what?
No, thank you.
Like you can do that on your owntime.
So you still gotta have thoserules.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Yeah, no, it's so important to have that.
But then allowing to bestructured in that, but then
doing those different thingsreally opens it up to the
customer, to the employees tohave that different type of
experience situation.
And I think you gotta adapt thatway too.
SPEAKER_05 (32:01):
Yeah.
What do you guys think aboutoutdated assumptions that stifle
growth?
So when you start thinking aboutthat of assumptions like that
people like just assume, here'swhat I do.
But it's really, and I'm talkingabout from an employee
standpoint, because then itslows growth down.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
I think there's a good part in job roles and
responsibilities, you know, thatI would say is one of my first
go-tos is okay, my job, whatdoes that entitle to me do in a
daily, right?
Like what are my roles andresponsibilities?
Like, if I just went throughthat.
So I think there's some outdatedassumptions of what a sales
manager does, what asalesperson, what a delivery
(32:43):
specialist, what a serviceadvisor, what assistant and
service advisor does.
So that's something that in thelast year we've gone through and
slowly updated those positions.
And most of them uh all say atthe bottom, and all other things
that are seen to be needed inyour position or any and all
departments.
Right?
Because we realize if it wasn'twritten down, then it wasn't
(33:04):
assumed, and then they were justlike, that's not my job.
Which is not the culture.
I go over that every single cakeday of thanking everyone for
going above and beyond.
That every time we have anemployee of the month, it's hey,
this person does way more thantheir job role says they need
to.
But I think that's one of thosethings that can be an outdated
assumption of no, I'm just to dothis.
SPEAKER_05 (33:25):
You know, I'm gonna take the flip side of that and
I'm gonna take exactly what yousaid because we have some
people, all differentpersonalities in our business,
and some people that are arevery strict rule followers.
Yeah.
Okay.
And if you come out with a newway to do a position or handle a
situation, and if you don't tellthem you don't need to do the
(33:45):
old way anymore, we have foundsome people following the rules.
Like, why are you still doingthat?
Well, that's what I'm supposedto do.
So you didn't update them tosay, okay, here's the new one,
take the old one out.
And I've scratched my headbefore.
And you know, if you're not thatway and you can pivot, which we
all can, you logically think ifwe're doing the new one, I don't
(34:07):
need to do the old one.
But I promise you, you haveemployees that are still doing
both.
Yeah.
They're still doing both.
SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
You have to be super clear.
And that's something we we'relike, what the heck?
Why is that person still parkingthere?
Or why are they not doing this?
It's because we weren't, we wereas clear as mud, right?
Yeah.
We just said, here's a excuseme, here's a new game plan,
here's what we're doing movingforward.
If you have any questions, letme know.
They're never gonna come to youand say, hey, I've got
questions.
I mean, rarely someone will, butthen be like, am I supposed to
(34:37):
still do this one and that one?
Yeah.
And you're like, my bad.
Hey, this supersedes the oldone.
So you cannot assume that anyoneknows anything.
SPEAKER_05 (34:44):
And so I think that that's when that it'll stifle
growth.
And I'll I'll tell a funny storyhere.
So we have one of our managersthat I had consistently sent
information to and podcast andbooks to read and this and that.
And he had latched on to aperson that was doing podcast.
This is four years ago.
And he'd latched on to them.
(35:05):
And it's it's not been sixmonths ago that this person came
back up to me and they said,So-and-so you sent to me.
Their stuff's kind of gettingoutdated.
Should I listen to anybody else?
And and I'm like, whoa.
I was like, Yeah.
I said, Look, can I sharesomething with you?
At any point in time, I got 10or 15 different people coming in
(35:27):
here because some people don'tget on highs and lows, but that
was they were stifling their owngrowth because they were just
caught in that one run of apodcast I had told about four
years ago.
And just because I hadn't shownthem a new one, they hadn't
gotten out of that rut.
SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
I think that's specifically giving them fish to
eat or teaching them how tofish.
And sometimes we're teachingthem how to fish without saying,
hey, I'm teaching you how tofish.
I'm teaching you how to learn.
And so for the next time, I'mnot gonna bring you another one.
You go find one that you like.
Like, here's how you do it,because otherwise, they're just
sitting there waiting for thenext fish.
(36:06):
And you're like, No, no, no, Itaught you how to fish.
And they're like, Oh, I Ithought you were just putting me
down here to receive.
SPEAKER_05 (36:13):
I I think the biggest thing to wrap all this
up, and you know, you used aparts terminology of of
superseding, you know, in ourparts department.
That means when a new partnumber comes out, it supersedes
the old one.
You can no longer order that oldpart number.
It actually won't even let youdo it.
It's got a new updated part thatthe manufacturer has fixed
whatever issue was with thatpart.
(36:34):
Yep.
It superseded it.
Okay.
And I think that's a greatreminder to me, too, is when we
come out with something new,more than likely, it superseded
something that was old.
And if we don't talk about that,that will stifle growth there.
You know how questioning normsunlocks creativity and
opportunity.
And I love this one.
(36:55):
And this one will not come tolife in your business if you
don't do it.
Your employees are not gonnaquestion the normalcy of how you
advertise, how your processesare, when when lunch break is,
you know, when benefits comeout, all these things.
It's your job to question thatstuff.
(37:16):
And especially when they see youquestion something that you came
out with, they're like, okay,this person's adaptive and open
to changing even what they putin place.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
Yeah, I know that's that's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
I think if you uh not always control the things
yourself, if you allow to havesomebody outside of of your
headspace or outside of yourdepartment, it's not different
than Craig and his marketingteam is like hey, I'm gonna let
you guys handle this and I wantyou to get creative control
because it's it's gonna be acomplete different idea than
what you had.
And as long as it's relevant andbrings in what you need, then I
(37:52):
think that's great, right?
That's questioning the normal ofno, I'm the one that always
comes up with this and doesthis.
And one, you're bogging yourselfdown stuff you didn't need to
bog yourself down with, and two,they have a complete different
outlook.
You know, you said something theother day, and it this is kind
of pointless because I I can'tremember specifically what it
was, but you were talking aboutit on the kickoff Friday, and
you said, Hey, we need to dothis, this, and this.
(38:14):
And I said, Marketing's alreadydone that.
He's like, Oh, never mind, thatwas a bad idea.
And I said, No, what a bad idea.
Someone else just came up withit and already executed it,
right?
Uh, and so allowing to get outof the norm of doing this and
this unlocks new creativecreativity and new opportunity.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
The hard thing, and I was talking about this with
one of y'all the other day.
You can uh look this back and uhreference it to like your kid
growing up.
Whenever you start to not do thenorm of I'm doing this every
single day, and let your othermanagers, your other department
heads start to run, learn towalk everything through the
(38:49):
process of you pulling back,they're gonna trip and fall,
they're gonna mess up.
It's okay.
I had removed myself from a spotthat I always sit at, more so
just to gauge, not to doanything in there, but just to
hear and always know what'sgoing on.
And I'd remove myself for acouple of days and X, Y, and Z
happened.
And I went back and I was like,come on, you're telling me I've
(39:12):
sat here for this long and youhadn't picked up and you can't
do this.
So you have to know that youhave to let them make mistakes.
Be there to be able to help themand guide them.
But if you want that area togrow, not being the norm, you
have to let them grow.
SPEAKER_05 (39:28):
You know, one last thing I want to bring up here,
and it probably should havebrought up earlier, but I think
it's a great example.
We can all relate to this.
We all live in the whole Walmartcountry.
And when you talk about breakingthe rules, but not letting it
really affect your business.
You know, we talked about theinvestment side, take a smaller
chunk and put it at higher risk.
When you look at Walmart, andit's funny because we were at
(39:49):
Pea Ridge last weekend, so wewere talking about this.
Walmart broke the rules ondelivering stuff to houses.
And they didn't know for sure ifit was gonna work.
So that that amount ofinvestment they put and they
said, if it works, great.
If it doesn't, it's not gonnacripple our business.
And then they opened up a coupledifferent places.
Out in Farmington, they had thedrone that did delivery.
(40:11):
When we were up in Pea Ridge,they had, I don't even know what
they call that, the airplane.
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
It's like an airplane, it's a slingshot and
comes and lands kind of in a netor a cable.
So two complete two same ideasof going to you, right?
Without a vehicle on the road,but two complete different ways
of how to do it.
SPEAKER_05 (40:28):
So then they said, okay, let's break the rules
without it breaking thebusiness.
Yeah.
We set this amount aside.
Yeah.
You know, it's no different thanif if, you know, if I go to the
horse race track, which I don'tgo very often, I set aside, hey,
I'm gonna spend a couple hundreddollars, and when that's out,
it's out.
Okay.
And I had I had fun, but Ididn't leverage the house.
It didn't affect my family'swell-being.
(40:50):
Well, it's not a mean thing.
It didn't put us all the wayunder.
That's the same thing.
It's okay to take risk and breakthe rules, but just don't
leverage your business.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Nope.
100% there.
Hey, going into a question here.
What's one rule you followed forway too long before realizing it
was actually holding thebusiness back?
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
So I've been racking my brain.
I looked at that and was like,hmm, but I have one, so I'll go
ahead and then you can figureout yours.
Um it's actually exactly whatyou were just talking about.
Okay.
Um, and so you talked about, andwe it's funny because we talk
about and seem like we have allthe answers figured out.
We don't, I assure you.
Most of the time we're justtalking about like, whoops,
don't do that.
(41:30):
Uh is when we have changed aCRM, when we have changed a
service write-up tool, when wehave changed anything that's a
system or a process, one of ourbiggest downfalls, because
generally we are very committalpeople.
When we're in, we are all in.
We have not been very good at, Ihave not been very good at at
(41:52):
sample testing things.
You know, just say, hey, ifwe're, I'm like Craig, we're
gonna do this, let's run thisagainst the whole company.
Well, then we don't really havealternate options to see was
traffic off just as a norm, orwas it because the marketing new
campaign was just bad?
So then we don't have thosedifferent sample tests.
(42:13):
So the rule that that we have tocontinue to break is to not put
it all the eggs in one basket toswitch to this.
The problem was is we wanted tobe able to change that, vet it,
and then be able to train theentire team on it.
Uh, and so sometimes that woulddefinitely stun our growth if it
was not a good move or if therewas a large training moment or a
downsize moment for the for thecustomers as we learned and
(42:35):
trained on that.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
That's good.
I'll tell you mine, it's a it'sa pretty easy one.
And y'all will relate as soon asI said that, as soon as I say
this, is the strict rule ofeverybody in variable has to
work every single Saturday.
SPEAKER_04 (42:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (42:49):
You know, that that was one.
And then finally, when we brokethat and we said, hey, let's
give salespeople at least aSaturday off a month.
Let's give managers at least aSaturday off a month.
And if somebody's sellingenough, let's give them every
Saturday off if they needed tobe.
And that really held held usback from recruitment side for
(43:10):
people that had stuff going onwith their family, you know, and
retention side.
Yeah.
You know, so once once wechanged that, it was business
actually went up.
Right.
We thought we were gonna lose itbecause we didn't have everybody
here on Saturday, but itactually went up.
Our retention of peopleinvariable went up.
Yep.
Uh, because we broke broke oneof the other rules.
SPEAKER_02 (43:31):
Yeah.
And uh it's important to measurethat and realize it it it'll be
okay, right?
With proper structure andprocedure.
You still have to have thestructure.
It is super important.
And then we got when they cometo you and they're like, hey, I
only sold 18 last month.
I was like, okay, yeah, let mehelp break that down per your
time.
Let me put some value on yourtime.
You left at three every singleday and you only worked one
Saturday.
And they're like, huh, okay,that was pretty good.
(43:52):
It's like, okay, just wanted tokeep us all in check.
You have a great day.
Uh, I'll be here till 7, 7:30.
But if you need anything, let meknow.
Um, right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Yeah, both of those are really good.
Y'all hit on uh both areas thatI think would be something
that's definitely held us backthere and we we've grown moving
forward.
But great episode today.
Went through a lot.
It was expedited, as Shelbysaid, last day of the month.
So we're putting it together,but absolutely bringing you
relevant content that will makedifference in your business if
(44:23):
you'll put it in place.
Always check us out at LewisSuperstore.com to check out the
specials and at CrossroadsConversation Podcast.com.
Hit the like, hit the subscribe.
Please hit us with any questionsthat you do have so that way we
can bring you on the show, bringthose on the show and be
relevant to you and yourbusiness.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to give it a like, share it
(44:46):
with your friends and family,and visit our website to send us
questions about what you wouldlike to know about the
automotive industry or familybusiness in general.
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way, and we'll doour best to answer any questions
that you have.
Thank you again, and we'll seeyou in future shows.
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