Shiny Happy People - Reaction to Ep. 1 - Pt. 2

Imagine growing up in a world where misinformation is the norm and obedience is expected without question. A world where controversial beliefs about parenthood and child-rearing are deeply entrenched in your daily life. This episode takes a hard look at the lives of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and the influence of the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP) on their family and others alike, including notable figures like Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett.

We unravel the controversial narratives promoted by this organization, from encouraging families to have numerous children and raising them within the confines of their teachings, to the more sinister implications of their efforts to groom future influential figures. The episode also shines a light on the disturbing truth about how figures like the Duggars propagate medically inaccurate information about birth control and miscarriages, underscoring the urgent need for factual information in the media. 

Taking a darker turn, we venture into the troubling world of abuse and cover-ups within religious institutions - a world where predatory behavior is hidden and the victims are silenced. We delve into the shocking details of the Josh Duggar scandal, examining how his parents attempted to hide his predatory behavior and the devastating impact this had on the family. Lastly, we discuss the dire consequences of religious indoctrination on children and emphasize the importance of a safe environment where they can express themselves and question authority. This episode is not just an exploration of controversial beliefs, but a call to action for transparency, truth, and safety in religious teachings.

Crisis Hotlines

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
how I grew up.
They also believe in that sameumbrella of protection, that
same like God, pastor, husband,wife, children.
So I found that very like.
It was very triggering.
But you know also like oh, Isee you like yeah, I see what
you're doing here.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
I see this bullshit, yep.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh look, I even wrote people not equal to the
government, people not equalwith pastors that's, that's what
they were saying, Yep.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
So those are all like the main players in the show.
So, like, let's start talkingabout.
I know that we both pretty muchtook chronological notes and I
tried to make an outline butthen it just turned into
chronological notes, so let'sjust go back to the beginning.
So you started talking aboutsome of this stuff, so
chronologically, you know,talking about 19 kids and

(00:47):
counting some of the things thatget lightly mentioned, actually
because, remember, jim Bob didnot grow up in IVLP, they were
actually.
What was it?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Missionary Baptist Missionary.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Baptist they're.
They mentioned this verybriefly, I don't know if you
caught it, but they mentionedthat both Michelle and Jim Bob's
parents, so the husband of lifeboth parents did not approve of
the number of children thatthey were having and they show
that little clip where they'relike this is your new grandchild
and then his dad's just likestaring like he's motherfucker.

(01:23):
Yes and it's.
And they say like they wereconcerned for Michelle's health
and whatever else.
And so they actually were notapproving of that lifestyle and
also just like from a scienceperspective what are you just
constantly pregnant?
Okay, is your body just in aconstant state of fucking

(01:45):
pregnancy has to be too old tobe having kids, like yeah, which
also like I feel like they'rehaving kids when she is too old
to be having kids.
Yes, well like it's likedangerous, not just for well,
that's what they say.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
They say like the last baby she had.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
They want the 20, 20, the one before that.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, she had medical problems and they had to like
have her in the hospital andthen the baby was born early and
like and like they talk, theybriefly talk, touch about that,
but like I always like him bythe power of God like bitch by
the power of science.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Thank your nurse, thank your doctor.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, which I want to talk about, because so they
talk about this in this episodeand I think they bring it up
again, but I definitely want tomention it.
So they have Josh, their firstkid, and then she gets pregnant
again and she has a miscarriage.
And they literally state I hadthis miscarriage because I was
on birth control which is notpossible, like that is not a

(02:48):
thing.
Medically is not a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, they're just trying to birth control people
out of getting pregnant it likeit keeps your eggs where they're
supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
So, if you are already pregnant, that birth
control is not going to cause amiscarriage.
But they blatantly state thatyes, and then say that they got
on their knees and prayed forforgiveness for killing their
child, and then God bless themwith twins, which is mind
blowing to me.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Which also like I feel, some type of wave at
shining up in people for notlike explaining that a fact.
Check on the screen, thosethings are not real Right,
because you're going to havesome motherfucker that watches
that and thinks that that's thecase.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
But also then, okay, well, what happened in number 20
then?
Because they show the clipbeing like this, that there's no
heartbeat.
She's like oh, but like, wasGod punishing you then because
you believed?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, what did you do Like?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
what happened there?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
They don't know we don't need an explanation, right
, don't need an explanation.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Birth control killed that kid.
Yeah so that pissed me offentirely and I took notes on
that.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
And I think that this is a good point to talk about,
like why 19 kids?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
why 11 kids for Jim?

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Halls.
One thing that Bill Gothardteaches is that the more
blessings yeah the more childrenthat you have, the more blessed
by God that you are.
Yeah, so I could talk for hoursabout this.
So, like I am going to reallytry to rain it in here.
I took my Vagabants like well,on time before this, so

(04:21):
hopefully it goes well.
Well, they what his goal is.
And this is going to soundinsane because it is, but it is
real and I want everyone tounderstand that like I am not
over exaggerating this, I am notbeing crazy.

(04:41):
He and there's a point in theepisode where he like kind of
states something that likealludes to it, and then they
don't really extrapolate that atall.
He wants them to have anabundance of children at all of
his followers.
So you look at Jim Bob and JimHall and Jim Bob and the Duggars

(05:02):
kind of became the poster childfor IBLP, very similar to and
they make this comparison theway that, like Tom Cruise became
the poster child forScientology, because they are
the perfect poster child for hisworld.
They had almost 20 fuckingchildren, jim Holtz, 11.

(05:24):
Yeah, and the purpose of havingthese children is that they can
grow up in the teachings in theway of IBLP, so essentially
brainwashing them into theirbeliefs when they because
children don't know any betterso that they can go out and
spread the word of God.
But by spreading the word ofGod, what they really mean is

(05:47):
they're raising their childrento be politicians, prominent
community figures, so that theycan push these agendas from top
down Right.
And if you think that that iscrazy, I want to talk about this
more later.
But I really encourage you tolook up your Supreme Court
Justice, Amy Coney Barrett.
Look her up and the people ofpraise disastrous which, like we

(06:11):
could touch on this lightly.
I feel like we could talk aboutthat for, like an entire.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
That could be a whole episode.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So I don't want to get too far into that, but like
I'm going, to give you someresearch.
I'm going to give you a coupleof hooks, because I did do a
little bit of research and Iencourage you to do this on your
own, because I would love to dothat up to.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
I literally wrote down separation of church and
state is a fucking joke.
Yeah, I say, I wrote that notewith my little red pen.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, they, these people don't believe that there
should be separation of churchand state, which is ridiculous
Like this is a religious beliefthat you have.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
We're trying to run a country like every law that is
passed, and you know it'shilarious.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
It's based on what's hilarious is, if our skin were a
different color and we woregarbs that covered our whole
face, people would call thatterrorism.
Yeah, right, yeah, they wouldlook down on that.
Yeah, but because it's allwhite men with their little

(07:11):
glasses on nobody calls it forwhat it is.
There are other countries thatare run by your religious
organizations that are alsoextreme in a different way Yep,
the Taliban.
What do you call those people?
Terrorists, terrorists?
This might seem very extremefor me to be making these
fucking parallels because, like,maybe women do have slightly

(07:33):
more privilege than people do inthe Taliban right religions.
They are now, yes, but they arenot as far off as you know.
No no, these religions werewomen have as little rights.
Right, it's just the appearanceof rights.
And that's why I want people tolook up the people of price.
Yes, this is the religiousorganization that Amy Coney
Barrett, her husband and herfather are affiliated with and

(07:56):
crack actively practice.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
When you research them, be very careful not to
read the things that they saythey are.
And we got to dig deeper thatpeople that are previous members
of their are saying they'revery particular on what that
they put out into the public.
They do not share theirteachings.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, it's hard to find pictures and stuff.
Yes, they scrub the internet ofinformation.
Yes, so that you can onlythey're trying to only let you
find what they their narrative.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yes, you really have to dig deep to find out what's
going on, what I was able tofind and I dug around for a
little bit this morning it isvery it is very hard to find
information on them, whichshould be scary on its own, it
should be terrifying.
Yes, in the age of information,there is a group of people, one
of which holds a very highposition in your government, is
voting on laws andconstitutional rights.

(08:49):
Yes, you cannot findinformation about an
organization that is 100% a partof her day to day life.
Yeah, there should be afundamental issue that everybody
takes with this.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, especially because their religion believes
that you, you as a woman, youcannot make any right.
Wait, wait, let me get to that,get there so the things that I
found.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
There is a document that was published about the
position that each person in thepeople of praise holds in their
community.
Yes, you will.
Amy Coney Barrett held thetitle of handmade.
I can't even make that up.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And then they came out.
I don't know if they weretrying to backtrack like it sure
as shit sounds to me like itbut because they have no
information publicized aboutthat, I have no way of knowing
if this is like thembacktracking or if this is true.
But they consider hand, theysaid they consider handmade a
title of esteem because Mary wasGod's direct handmade.

(09:54):
Give me a fucking break.
Yeah, I'm in the middle ofwatching Handmaid's Tale right
now.
So you, like you, cannotconvince me.
No yeah handmade is a positivereference.
It is not.
It is not.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I mean regardless if they gave Mary that term as
handmade, it's still likedegrading.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yes, like I'm not your handmade.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm not your servant, like.
That's what that means.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Right, so like oh hey , you're the servant of God, so
that's a compliment, verygaslighting.
Yes, so thank you for that.
Yes, so the other thing that Ifound, and it's interesting
because they say one thing andthen they try to make, they try
to put lipstick on a pig, right,so men in this, in this

(10:38):
religion, are the key decisionmakers, of course.
But then they say but weencourage women to achieve, you
know, education and high careerachievements, right, why are
they doing that, if matter thekey decision makers, so that
they can then influencedecisions, not only in their

(11:02):
spaces that they're working in,but also in the spaces of their,
their wives and children ortheir daughters, essentially.
So again, this woman is aSupreme Court justice, so I also
found people that there weresome.
There were some people thathave spoken out that have left

(11:24):
the people of praise.
There's very limited namesattached to these and there's
very limited statements, becausethere are some people that have
spoken on the, on the premiseof anon and like anonymity, and
anonymity would have everyone.
So they're probably scaredsomebody's going to be like to
send this girl to a phonicsclass anonymity, because they're

(11:47):
afraid of the repercussionsfrom the people of praise or
repercussions against relativesor friends of theirs that are
still in people of praise, thatthey don't want them to
experience any negative backlash, essentially whatever that

(12:10):
means or maybe.
But one of the quotes that Ihad found was somebody said that
she was instructed at a youngage by her elders not to
emasculate their male peers bygetting the better of them in

(12:34):
conversations.
In addition to that, they aretaught, and I quote, obedience
to authority and submit toheadship, which is only men 100%
.
Okay, they are taught that womenare to defer to men for
decisions.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Correct you can't make a decision unless you get
permission first.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Correct.
And then this one was a whopper.
So there was Hang on, let meread what I wrote.
Okay, so there was a woman whogave a talk in the 1980s.
That woman was Gianna Saliff,who is the wife of the founder

(13:24):
or, I'm sorry, wife of theco-founder of the People of
Praise.
She gave a, you know, like aTed Talk, like kind of a what do
you want to call them?
Like a convention?
Yeah, like a talk at aconvention Geared Towards Women
in 1980.
In 2015, in a People of Praisemagazine called like Vines and

(13:50):
Something I didn't even write itdown somebody wrote an article
for that magazine based on thistalk from 1980.
So I don't want people to thinklike this came from the talk in
1980.
No, this article was written in2015.
Right, 35 years later, right,and it says it is important for

(14:13):
you to verbalize your commitmentto submission.
Tell him what you think aboutthings, make your input, but let
him make the decisions andsupport them once they are made.
I just threw up in my mouththat's your Supreme Court
justice.
That's your Supreme Courtjustice, people who, by the way,
are appointed until literaldeath.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Death in the fact, the fact that she replaced
Earth-Pated Ginsburg.
It's just a fucking it was thebiggest fuck you to women on the
face of the planet.
You can't convince me otherwise.
I agree the absolute biggestfuck you.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
That's why, like I think it's becoming, I think
we're we've.
Society has conditioned us.
This is like a total politicalopinion.
So sorry guys, but society hasconditioned us to a point of our
bar is so low for what weconsider progress.
It's no longer enough to behappy because it's a woman, it's

(15:14):
no longer enough to be happythat it's a black man, a black
woman, a person of color, aperson of a certain type of race
, like it's not enough anymoreto say, well, at least we have
somebody at a seat at the tableRight, we're not there anymore.
We should be past that.
Our standards should be higherthan that.
What do these people stand for?
I mean, you have a black man asa Supreme Court justice that is

(15:39):
not an ally to his own people.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
No.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like, call yourself a constitutional purist or
whatever it is they fucking callthemselves.
Like all these people that siton the Supreme Court are fucking
bloggers with power.
Like literally, there arepeople with opinions that have
power, like this irrationalamount of power to make a
decision that some of them can'tbe trusted with that power.
Like I'm not saying that that'severy Supreme Court justice at

(16:02):
all, right, but make no mistakeabout it.
Like, after they make adecision I encourage you to go
listen they have to makestatements about why they voted
one way or the other.
If those statements arelittered with opinion-based
experiences, that's not whatyou're there for, right?
You're actually appointed tothose positions to rule based on

(16:27):
the letter of the law, notbased on your personal
experiences.
And if you look at the strikingdown of affirmative action, that
just happens.
Clarence Thomas that's his name, right makes an entire
statement that is littered withdistaste based upon his own

(16:48):
personal experience at Yale,which is just wildly
inappropriate.
Whether you agree with him ornot, you are not ruling based on
your life's experiences.
You are supposed to be rulingbased on law, right?
Like I don't know how else tomake that more abundantly clear.

(17:11):
And then you've got to get backto the religious aspect of
things.
You have Amy Coney Barrettsitting as a Supreme Court
justice that firmly lives herday-to-day life as a public
system.
Yeah, that she is not allowed tomake decisions for herself
without consultation from thosehigher than her and her chain of

(17:33):
authority.
And you're going to really sitthere and believe that she puts
that aside when she goes to workevery day?
Because I don't.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
She's got her husband on speed dial.
Laren how should I vote today?
Yeah, can you ask my dad?
Can I prove that?
Can you say I'm all like a head, a head chip, right, can I
prove?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
that no, no, can we all use our heads?
Yeah, like do some research.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Does this summarize every day?

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, I don't even know if we could do a whole
episode on this, because youcan't fucking find any
information about these people.
I know they scrubbed theinternet.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Anyway, yes, so anyway, anyways.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Back to Fricking jambot yeah.
So this is how we got here.
Is Bill Gofford is looking forthis mass production of little
minions, basically to go out anddo essentially what the prime
example that Amy Coney Barrettis Right and then infiltrate the
government and other areas ofyour community that hold high

(18:28):
ranking power to startinfluencing, which is hilarious,
because what's the hottesttopic in politics right now?
People indoctrinating our youth.
Oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Who, who, those drag queens Right Meanwhile?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Let's take a step back and be rational for a half
a second.
Who?
Who's indoctrinating anyone?
Bill Gofford A religion yeah,yeah, yeah, and you're OK with
all those people being imparted.
Like nobody that runs for, likethe highest powers in our

(19:07):
government could ever run on aplatform that was non I don't
even want to saynon-denominational isn't the
word they could never run aplatform on.
Like an atheist platform, no,like somebody that does not
personally, no chance whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
A segment you would lose I mean our money literally
says in God, we trust.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, like Wild Like, but then you're taught
separation of church and statein school Okay.
Which I feel like is onlytaught just to make you feel
better about the whole thing andto close your eyes to what's
really happening.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, it's like a smoking news.
Oh yeah, yeah, like, oh no, nono, no, it's actually not a
thing.
It's like you know God, wetrust Same thing.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, so that's one of Bill Gotherd's teachings
that comes up really early onin the show.
So we talked a bit about this.
Amy's the cousin yeah, doesn'tgrow up anything like them is on
the show.
But they're all the duggers who, again, are like the center of
the show and the people thateveryone's idolizing are kindly

(20:17):
but definitively speakingagainst the way that Amy lives.
Mm, hmm.
So, yeah, people that arefollowing this family and think
that they're this model example,whether you think so or not,
they're planting the seed inyour mind Like, don't be like
Amy, right, and that's televisedon national television, right?

(20:39):
And then we started.
So this is the part where wepause that I think we could pick
back up on.
Jim Bob did get involved inpolitics.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
He held a seat in your house of representatives.
He sure did.
And then he ran for the Senate.
And I want to stress toeveryone my government classes
in college and high school arefailing me here.
Is there a term limit on houseof representatives?

(21:13):
There is not in the Senate.
I don't think there's a termlimit in house of
representatives either.
I don't think so either.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, so you do have to keep running right, you have
to keep running, but you couldbe elected a hundred thousand
times.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
So that's why all your senators are ancient right
now, which is ridiculous.
Everything should have a termlimit, including a Supreme Court
justice.
Nobody should be able to be.
First of all, supreme Courtjustice is a whole nother animal
, because you don't even have tobe re upped, you're just
literally appointed to death.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
And then a house of representatives and Senate, I
guess is like a hair betterbecause you have to keep going
through re elections.
But I would say that localelections are really tough.
Like people always talk abouthow local, how much local
elections matter.
Yeah, but I think it's reallyhard in those positions of House
of Representatives and Senateto make a wave and unseat

(22:04):
somebody that's already beenseated there, because people
kind of go with what they know,unless there's a huge problem.
So unless somebody is makingegregious decisions, typically
you're just going to continue tohold that position until you're
either going to go run for ahigher level position Because
you'll see a lot of people gofrom like Senate to running for
the presidency, or you decidethat you're just done and you're
not going to do this anymore.

(22:24):
But your House representativesin your Senate are literally the
people writing policy.
They are the people that writeand submit your laws, that sit
and argue over each littledetail in a bill to submit it
Like that's what the House does,and then the House does that.
They vote on the terms afterthey argue back and forth and

(22:45):
granted like this is a very highlevel overview.
This is not my strong studentschool, so like, if I make any
minor error, please forgive,please forgive us.
Generally speaking, like they'renegotiating the terms of the
bill.
They have to pass the termsthat they've agreed upon over to
the Senate and then the Senatevotes on it.
So, like the Senate couldeither, you know, approve or

(23:07):
decline.
Essentially, so these are yourpeople that are making the laws
in which you abide by when youwant policy changes, when you
want.
Like it's not the fuckingpresident, the president is
really has far less power.
Yeah, like he has so much lesspower than people think that
they do.
Like, when you're voting onyour, your president, like if

(23:29):
you're really into politics andlike that's the election that
you care about, like I encourageyou to like be more concerned
about your House ofRepresentatives in your Senate,
because the president is gettingjack shit done if he doesn't
have the House in the Senate.
And that's what they alwaystalk about and that is what they
mean when they say that on thenews around election time.
So Jim Bob is in your House ofRepresentatives at one point.

(23:50):
Yeah, this man is influencingpolicy and law and engaging with
other people, trying topersuade them to agree with him.
Like that's what these peopledo.
They stand up all day and justtry to persuade each other to
one side of the fence or theother end things and to agree
and to compromise with him.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
So let's get into.
When Jim Bob was in office, oneof his platforms was the
National Sexual PredatorRegistry.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
He was a key person in getting the registry created.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
He was behind the sex offender registry existing, so
apparently his good friend JimHolt, who had, I'm assuming,
known for a while about Josh,said to him you need to go and
meet this right, because you'reliterally at your platform is
the sexual predator registry andyour son is a sexual predator.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah.
So like rewind real quick, likethe so Jot.
What happened is before theshow 19 kids and counting.
Yes, I do think there were someindividual episode specials
about the family prior to thisthat were very successful, but
before the regular earring of 19kids and counting, they had

(25:16):
been in the media as like asensation these people with all
these children in between, theirfirst appearance on TV right
before he runs for the firsttime, I think, yeah, he wasn't
in politics, yet I don't.
I don't think, I don't think Iwould have to look that up for
sure, but either before or veryearly on in his political career

(25:39):
.
There is a anonymous letterthat gets sent to the Oprah
Winfrey show that potentiallycontains the details that Josh
Duggar, the oldest of the Duggarchildren, is a sexual predator,
and he had been doing it sincehe was 12 years old and several

(25:59):
of his victims were his siblings, which that won't be for today.
They really only introduce youto that in this first episode.
So in order for us to like I doreally want to talk about that
in order for us to kind of justlike- knock on down a rabbit
hole and break this up anddigestible and for you guys to
be able to follow along and Idon't want to spoil anything for

(26:19):
you if you're actually trulywatching it for the first time
with us.
We won't dig more into thattoday but we will get to it
because there's like a lot.
I think they essentially do awhole episode on like the family
and how, like what happensthere.
But what they do get into inthis episode is what crush was
just saying, where Jim Holtzfinds out about this right, says

(26:46):
he needs to turn him in, sayshe needs to turn him in and says
yeah, and says like you need toturn your kid in.
But even what he says I hate,it's not you need to turn your
kid in because this isdisgusting, it's not you need to
turn your kid in because thisis wrong.
You need to turn your kid inbecause of people find out about
this 20 years from now they'regonna eat you alive, gonna hurt

(27:07):
your career.
They're going to eat you alive.
So so he's encouraging us andto turn his son in in the
purposes of self-interest andpreservation, not on the fact
that this is appalling.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yep, and I think that there's a common trend which
I'm sure we're going to talkabout more, but I will mention
it because they did mention itin here is Jill says no one was
supposed to find out about.
Yeah, her husband says we werehoping to take this to the grave
.
We were hoping to say this is agreat.
They say it like three or fourtimes.
No one was supposed to find out.
We didn't want them to find outand to me that's mind-blowing

(27:43):
that like you're trying to keepthis secret.
But again, that's what churchesdo they?

Speaker 2 (27:46):
try to yeah that secret, keep that secret, keep
that yeah, so Jill, as one ofthe siblings that experienced
assault at the hands of Joshliterally, they ask her about it
in the show when you'rewatching it, and she says I
don't want to talk about thatimmediately, immediate, like
that is her and like I'm noteven sure the person finished

(28:07):
the question, and then she getsquiet and her husband just
starts speaking for her rightand he's saying like these were
things that were told that weshared in confidence within our
marriage, that we didn't wantanyone to ever know that we that
we were hoping to take to thegrave.
And basically Jill says that youknow the news broke on the in

(28:32):
like the tabloids, whatever,because the letter goes to
overwind free and all of asudden everybody knows and
they're they're genuinely upsetabout that and you know what,
from a standpoint of like aserve, like you can speak from
this lens, a survivor of sexualassault, I'm sure that's

(28:53):
something that you would rathernot the public know,
particularly when it's yourbrother.
You know, on top of all that.
So I can, I don't want to roasther right for like regret and
like her husband, like fuck thatguy, but like I don't want to
roast them for the opinion ofjust hoping that nobody would
ever find out, because I'm surethat was like deeply personal.

(29:14):
There was a lot of processingthat I'm sure that had to happen
and a lot of work she had to doto be okay and then to suddenly
have a public opinion.
Yeah, like just slammed intoevery little bit of your
experience with that.
Yeah, not great, because, as weknow, like there's gonna be

(29:37):
people that are on your side andthen there's gonna be people
that aren't right and I thinkthat that's probably very
triggering and very difficult tounderstand, or did a difficult
to process, not difficult tounderstand.
So I don't want to make itsound like I'm being insensitive
here and like I do feel for thefact that that happened and but
the response of you know thehush-hush, for nobody should

(29:59):
have ever found out about this.
That's the part where I'm likeit's not that I don't want to
talk about this or not that,like we hoped, like whatever,
nobody should have ever foundout about this.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, and I think too , it plays into hand where.
So when they do go and turnJosh and they take him to like a
state trooper yes, slayingeverything that happened.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
So so Jim Bob and Jim Holtz.
Jim Holtz goes to Jim Bob andsays you need to turn him in.
And Jim Bob says you know what?
You're right, let's go down.
Your do you want to comebetween the station right now?
And Jim Holtz said yes, sir, Ido right.
So they go down to the policestation.
Josh tells the state troopereverything he's like bad boy.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Don't do it again, you're released literally
literally, and you want me togive you a little fun fact
because, you know me, I like todive in deep.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I hope you're gonna say what I think you're gonna
say trooper that said yes, youare do it again was literally
arrested for sexual assault 56years for possession of was it?
I'm gonna look it up.
You know, I don't want tomisquote this, yeah let's not
misquote it so I don't want tolet piece of shit go.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
While you're looking it up too, I'll start touching
base on.
So after they take Josh to thetrooper and the trooper is like,
don't do it again, jim Bobsends him to Bill gothard to fix
him.
They they say they literallysay, we hope that he gets fixed.

(31:30):
So they send him to Billgothard to do like work or
something, mm-hmm, and then hejust like acts like he's the
head honcho of Bill gothardministries.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Then they just bring him back like nothing ever
happened yeah, so that's a bigpart of hang on state trooper.
I want to read this exactly.
The state trooper whoreportedly let Josh Duggar walk
away after he was brought in byhis father, jim Bob, on alleged
child molestation charges ispictured in his most recent mug

(32:04):
shot.
Joseph T Hutchins said to havespoken with the Duggar sometime
around 2005 after teenage Joshallegedly assaulted a minor
female, and the officer thenfailed to follow up on these
claims.
As has been reported, and soonafter he was imprisoned himself
on child pornography charges, sowasn't convicted for neglect of

(32:28):
reporting the Duggar situation.
Convicted on his own insentenced in 2007 on his own
child pornography charges, andhe was currently serving a 60 60
, which anybody that knowsanything about the law knows

(32:49):
that these types of crimes don'treally carry particularly long
sentences on an individualaccount standpoint.
So in order to get 60 years, ithad to be a massive number of
counts that he was charged andconvicted with.
So he is currently serving a 60year sentence.

(33:11):
And do you want to know thegrossest part?
I didn't know this, but this isfucking horrible.
He was actually still, despitebeing convicted for a 60 year
sentence and child pornographycharges, he was eligible for
parole as of November 2020that's disgusting yep so, yeah,

(33:31):
a couple of notes to.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I wrote about, like this whole issue with like abuse
is like one of the quotes thatthey say in the first episode
they use that the pandemic ofabuse is everywhere, like that
this culture touches.
So, if you like, pull upreligion, you see abuse after

(33:57):
abuse, after abuse, after hidingabuse, hiding pedophilia, like
that is rampant in religion.
I mean just even where I grew up.
I mean how many I had.
Five, six, seven, eight peoplemessage me personally, telling
me that they were abused.
Mm-hmm right, and I've known ofcountless acts of child
pornography being found, andthose people still could be in

(34:18):
the church.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's just like you had one person that you said
that they knew aboutspecifically, that they just
said they let him get marriedand said she's, your marriage
will fix it.
I don't understand.
What is that thought process?
Marriage, as I mean, is theresomething that they teach in the
church?
That marriage saves you, orsomething?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
I guess like if you're committed to your wife,
you're not gonna like repentance.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I don't understand.
But, yeah, so, like as youmentioned, you know, he
basically tells them like, oh,don't do it again.
And shoes, shoes.
It has him along and then whathappens after that is is Jim Bob
says what are we gonna do withhim?
We got to get him out of thehouse, so knows that this is

(34:59):
wrong and he can't have himaround the other kids.
Yeah, right, so the theresulting punishment I guess you
could call it, yeah is that hesends him to Bill gothard school
for troubled youth.
Did you catch that?
Yeah, okay, yeah, so sends himto Bill gothard.

(35:23):
Founder of the IBLP.
The guy produce mass producinglike pedophiles and misogynists
and whatever else you want tocall it.
Sends him to a school fortroubled youth that is run by
that man.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, who brilliant we will talk more about in depth
, about him and the instituteright, we'll actually be crushes
.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
A baller crush actually bought I should, but
the, what is it called?
Yeah, that was that loud,though that's in the background.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Institute and base basic youth conflicts, research
and principles of life to.
This book is a gem, so we aregonna be posting we are
definitely gonna be posting likepages from this book it's wild,
like I feel like we could do apodcast for the rest of our
lives just going yeah, I mean, Isent you a couple, a couple of

(36:23):
things in there and it's justabsolutely mind-blowing yeah,
the things are like how to dealwith a rebellious child and like
, oh, we'll get into that,though don't spoil that, cuz
they they're not that oneepisode.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, oh god they'll be.
I feel like 45 minutes episodewill be taken up just by that,
like that one scene.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, sorry guys we gotta leave you with something.
Yeah, yeah.
I literally too wrote like inthis community the word abuse
doesn't exist, like it's notwait, wait.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
So yeah, so, like wait.
So it's funny that you bringthat up, because when they talk,
start talking about how theysent Joshua away, right, yeah.
So when they sent him away, amy, the cousin starts talking
about how nobody.
So some of the adults knew, butnone of the kids.

(37:16):
I mean, obviously some of thesiblings were victims, but the
ones that weren't in the know.
So it seemed like Amy was notin the know at the time and
neither would have Deanna havebeen.
I don't think, but I don't knowthat for sure.
So I don't want to say that forsure, but it seems like at
least Amy was not in the know atthe time.
They would ask where's Josh andthey would respond and say, oh,

(37:40):
he's building homes for homelesskids or for homeless families,
like doing the Lord's work.
He's just a good guy like that,because at the School for
Troubled Youth they had thembasically doing habitat for
humanity types of things likelabor to build houses for these
people, because that'll fix apedophile and so.
But they're not saying that hewent to a School for Troubled

(38:02):
Youth.
They're saying he's out doingthe Lord's work.
He's some kind of missionaryout on Mormon level, like out on
mission servicing.
Not that I think that Mormonsare great, I don't.
I'm not a fan of that religioneither.
But they're acting like he's outthere doing acts of service for
the world.
So then this is when Jim Bobgoes to run.

(38:30):
I don't know if this was likehe had already been in the House
of Representatives and he wasrunning for Senate, or if he was
running for his first time atthe House of Representatives.
I'm fuzzy on that timeline.
I'm not sure which.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
I'm sure if you watch the show, we get back into it.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, I'm sure, if you watch the show they get,
they probably more clearlyoutline this.
I forgot to write it down on mynotes, but either way, he goes
to start to run for publicoffice, whether that's again or
for the first time, and Jim Holtsays what are you going to do?
They're going to ask you aboutthis.
He's away.
They're going to ask you aboutthis Because at this point, like
the oldest son had started tobecome involved in politics as

(39:08):
well.
He had joined, like an extremeright wing conservative agenda
policymaking group, like,literally was looking to follow
in his dad's.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, like took a job in.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Washington DC.
And they like they said theycalled him like the golden boy
or something, yeah, like he wasthe golden boy of the show and
you know, he started gettinginvolved in politics himself.
So Jim Holt points out to JimBob, what are you going to do?
People are going to ask abouthim.
Where is he Like, what's goingon Like, and what are you going

(39:42):
to tell them?
And he was like, well, we'lltell them.
He's away, like I forgetexactly what he says, but it was
just some garbage Like he'saway doing God's work or
something, and Jim Holt saidnobody's going to believe that.
So what Jim Bob does is hewithdraws them from, withdrawals
him from this school fortroubled children which you
can't see me, but I'm sayingthis with air quotes because I

(40:05):
think this whole thing is agiant fucking farce but he pulls
them from the school, tells JimHolt oh, I just brought him
back because I wanted him to behere for my birthday.
Yeah, just to.
I think.
Shut up any naysayer, anynaysayer or naysaying from Jim
Holt or anybody else, and neversend it back.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
No, so they're just bringing back in school.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Right.
And then Marysim, off to thisgirl named Anna, I think, and
you know they show interviewclips where people ask like,
mind you, this kid wasassaulting people.
I think I said this alreadyfrom the age of 12.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
And OK, we'll get more into it.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like and when I say that, I mean he was 12 years old
when he started doing this.
So they start getting interviewquestions about, like, oh, do
you think that?
Like, whatever you did toreform or fix Josh, do you think
it worked?
And then, like, the parents areboth on interviews.
So, jim, bob and Michelle, Ihave no doubt, like he's a

(41:11):
change, he's a different personnow.
Yeah, like, yeah, oh, ok, isthat how things work around here
?
Like you know, you just sweep itunder the rug and you don't
have to bend to the rest of thelaws that everyone else needs to
live in, abide by Right Now.
If he had murdered his siblings, would you have just said, oh,

(41:35):
they went missing and we couldnever find them.
Yeah, we sent him to a schoolfor troubled youth, like what on
earth?

Speaker 1 (41:44):
But molestation is fine.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Right, that's OK.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
That was another big thing I wrote too is that, like
they're constantly likeharboring pedophiles- yes.
All of this is just harboringpedophile.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Well, the one.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Swimming it under the rug.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
They don't introduce them in the episode because
they're all on the secondepisode.
But they start bringing notjust Brooke who comes on the
show.
They start bringing in severalex-IBLP members, which will get
really interesting.
But the one woman she'sactually really great on the
show, she's the one with thepurple hair.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, so like I actually think that she's very
raw and just like you can tell,like, how much like all of this
like ruined her life really andit's like and how hard it was
for her to come on the show.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, and she talked Like finally getting some food.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yes, and she talks about saying, like you know, I
didn't want to do this, like Ididn't want to come up here and
have to talk about all of this,but a friend told me, this is
the space you've beenmanifesting for yourself, so go
and seize it.
Basically, that's how I feelabout this podcast.
Nope, that's so great.
Yeah, that is a good way to putit.
But like she talks about it Idon't know if it's actually in

(42:58):
the beginning of episode two ornot, but it's her, I believe,
that makes the statement inepisode one that the IBLP is
basically grooming littlepredators.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
I wrote that too.
She full on states that.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yep, I wrote that they franchise physical,
emotional, emotional andpsychological abuse.
Yeah, which is true, becausewhen we break down these other
episodes, you are going to seethe physical abuse, the
emotional abuse and thepsychological abuse that these
kids mainly kids right are goingthrough.
I mean, I'm sure that arenormalized.

(43:31):
Right Completely normalized, sothat and they're actually
taught.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
These are parts of the teaching.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, Yep, yep.
And another quote.
I think it might have been thatsame girl that you're talking
down.
She said that they break downthe will to fight so that you
just go along because you haveno feelings, you have no choice
and you have no way out, whichis horrifying, but I think that
that will that no way outfeeling, will touch home with

(44:01):
like a lot of people who havegrown up in these types of
religions.
Yeah, because you literallyfeel like you have, you have to
stay or your entire life.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, I talked about this at one point, but I know
that like we did a recordingthat we never released because
we didn't really love all thecontent, and like we've also had
to like clip a lot of stuff out, so like I don't know if this
ever actually made it into oneof the episodes.
I can't remember, but I talkedabout that show briefly, which I
feel like is very dramatizedfor television, but there are
some things from it that youcould take and just be like damn

(44:31):
.
And it's that show calledEscaping Polygamy.
It's on Hulu.
Yeah, I don't know what originalnetwork it was on, but it's
these three girls that used toactually be members of I'm not
going to remember because it'sbeen so long, but they actually
at some point they all haveescaped some kind of radical
cult like polyamorous religion,and then I think it's three or

(44:54):
four girls they work to.
They're like this they havesome way of like spreading the
word to these like differentreligions, that they are not
different religions but thewoman that are a part of these
religions, that they can helpget them out if they want to get
out.
And they work to essentiallysmuggle these people out and,

(45:19):
even if it is dramatized forjust for television, like these
three girls, have a full asssecurity team that has to follow
them around because of fear ofviolence, trying to get these
women out.
It's often an extremelycoordinated event where they
roll up and you have 30 minutesto pack all of your things
before somebody comes home andfinds you because they're not

(45:41):
going to allow you to leave.
Some of the people that theysmuggle out are what's his name?
What's his name from the otherTV series that we watched on
Netflix Eat sleep praying.
Ok.
What is his name?
Warren Jeffs?
Yeah, Warren Jeffs, Warren Jeffsyes there was a couple episodes

(46:02):
where people were smuggled outof that religious group, and the
reason why I'm bringing that upis because there is one episode
that is particularlyheartbreaking, where it was
actually a male that was lookingto get out and, while his
parents were at church, thesegirls went to his home and

(46:27):
helped him pack everything upand said we've got to go, we've
got to go, we've got to go.
And they're packing his shit up, they're trying to get out of
this house as quickly aspossible before the parents come
home.
And he leaves a note for everyone of his siblings and as he's
putting the note down for hisbrother and whatever, no matter
what this note says, he's goingto think he's never going to

(46:48):
talk to me again because I leftand he's going to outside the
umbrella, all that shit.
And so he leaves a note for hisparents.
I don't know if he leaves anote for his dad.
He leaves a note for his momthough.
So he's in the car, he makes itout, he's off the campus is
what they call it, right,property off property.

(47:10):
And he gets a phone call fromhis mom and his mom is upset,
obviously, but then start sayingthings like why is everyone
leaving me?
And the kid says I'm notleaving you, I'm leaving this

(47:31):
religion in this church.
I don't believe in this.
And she reveals that she doesn'tbelieve in it either.
But her husband and all of herchildren are there and that is
what they choose to subscribe to, and that she doesn't want to
go to church and she doesn'twant to sit there.

(47:51):
But what is she supposed to do?
She can't leave.
She can't leave her husband,she can't leave everything.
She borderline admits to beingmiserable and you know they part
ways on this note that shedoesn't want to be there either,
but she's got to give up.
Her son, yeah, that leavesbecause that's the choice that

(48:16):
he made.
Even though she agrees withthat, she feels so trapped that
she stays, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
And isn't it heartbreaking that a religion
would make you choose, like thebelief in something over your
family?
Because I had that sameconversation over and over with
my parents I'm not choosing liketo get rid of my family, I'm
just choosing to not go tochurch.
And they had that same responseevery time.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Like we are the church, the church is our family
, the church is us If you choosenot to be in the church you're
choosing to not be with us and,like I just don't get that Me.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
They're like and I mean it's still happening to get
that, because it's alsocontradictory right.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Like all the religions Christianity,
catholicism they're all a giantfucking loop of hypocrisy right.
Like it's okay, like God saves,god forgives, god accepts,
unless we say he doesn't Right,when we say he doesn't Correct.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
And he only saves when he feels like it, right,
like it's, and then loop thatinto cycles of abuse and
degrading behaviors towardswomen and children, and the
breakdown of familyrelationships, and like.
I can go on and on, Like.
So what good is it?

(49:43):
What good is it doing?
It's getting.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
I think in a lot of cases, church does do more bad
than good, but I do think thatthere is good, like.
I am very adamant about thisBecause I think everybody has a
right to believe and celebratethe things that they want to
believe.
I think that there is goodreligion out there.

(50:11):
I think there's good religiouscommunity for people.
Just because I don't choose topartake doesn't mean that I
don't think that healthyreligion exists.
What I am saying is that Ithink it's very uncommon, yeah,
and I think that we don'trealize how uncommon that
healthy religion is.

(50:32):
I think people are conditionedto accept things about religion
that are shoved in your face,that are not appropriate, that
are borderline against yourrights as an individual that are
prescribed to you in theConstitution.
But we accept those thingsbecause they're just, you're

(50:55):
almost desensitized to them,because there is no separation
of these things in church andstate and all of those things
that they say public schoolsaren't supposed to teach those
things.
That's even more prominent nowthan it was when I was a kid.
It actually is infiltratingyour public schools and because
you're just so exposed to itrepeatedly at such a young age,

(51:16):
you have this acceptance of somany things that go on that you
don't even acknowledge as fuckedup, until somebody says wait a
second and think about this, andthen you're like damn, I don't
know how many people that I'vetalked to since starting this
podcast that have listened, thatare starting to realize or
process the trauma that they had, that they didn't even realize

(51:38):
about.
Or just people that maybe aren'tsuper religious, that are like,
damn, I never thought aboutthis to that extent.
Or people that are saying Ididn't realize that this is
happening in my backyard.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
It's everywhere.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
And I want to be really clear in saying that,
like, the Duggers are an example, not the exception, and by that
I mean the Duggers are not thefamily that got picked out of

(52:19):
this otherwise ordinary religionthat took things too far.
This is the common this is thecommon and there are people X
members, and there's a handfulof them.
They don't bring in one or twopeople from the X of the IBLSP
or IBLP I don't know what Iinserted in us and therefore

(52:43):
they have a significant numberof people that come on from this
religious group that full outstate the Duggers are one family
and there are all over thisreligious group a million other
families that are worse andnobody knows about, and it just

(53:07):
goes on.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I wrote like a little thing about that, about the
people that come on the showlike survivors, that they really
challenged the system thatterrorized them.
And I feel like those wordschallenged the system that

(53:28):
terrorized them Like it reallyhit home, even for like doing
this podcast.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Was that something that they said or that's just
something that you felt watching?

Speaker 1 (53:36):
us.
I felt watching it.
Like that word terrorize.
It's a that's a strong word.
But when you start hearingthese stories and the things
they have to go through oryou've heard my story and the
things I've had to go throughthose are that we were
terrorized.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
That's an honest word .

Speaker 1 (53:57):
It's an honest word and so, like moving forward into
these next episodes.
I know they do cover a lotabout Josh and Jill, but like
I'm really I mean, I want to sayexcited to touch on some of
these victims Like the thingsthat they went through how we
got here.

(54:18):
I did write down one quote.
I don't know if you rememberthis one girl.
She was only in a few times.
I don't know if she's in.
I can't remember if she's inother episodes, but I did some
more research on her.
But she's the one that talkedabout the word Fundy.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yes, okay, yes, she had also multi-colored hair.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
There were two girls that had multi-colored hair and
she was the.
She was the bigger girl.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, she has like a pink dress on yes.
And so she talks about thisword, Fundy, which is kind of a
play on the word fundamentalist.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Right and it's considered to a to a evangelical
fundamentalist, which I believeis where that comes from.
That's considered like aderogatory word, like you call a
white person a cracker orsomething like that.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, so I wrote down an entire statement that she
said and I felt like it reallyembodied these victims that are
coming on here.
But she said but theinterviewing of survivor stories
, it really drives home purityculture and high control groups
lead directly to assault.
When you have to forsake bodilyautonomy and are groomed to

(55:25):
submit and normalize abuse, itcreates an environment of
assault.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, and a grooming breeding ground for predators.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
And I feel like that's what IBLP is.
It's just a breeding ground ofabuse and predators.
I feel like that's how I grewup, I mean from my generation
into the generation.
Now I'm hearing stories beforeand after me of assault and it's
just continuous and continuous.
So, like I'm hoping, with these, like this series coming out

(55:59):
and our podcast and severalothers, that it's going to
hopefully open the eyes thatthis isn't the normal, like this
stops being the norm.
Right, you know what I mean,because yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I think that we always talk about how this
podcast has grown.
I mean, even just the peoplethat we have that listen, it's
been a higher number than wewould have ever imagined, right?
So I think it's just.
I am happy that you perceivethis pot not perceive, but for
you that this podcast is yourspace, that you've manifested

(56:36):
for yourself.
But I think it's become morethan that because we really like
I mean, we talked about churchacts a lot early on, but I think
that funny enough, like if youput all of our episodes together
, actual content wise, yeah,we've put them on blast a few
times but as they should be.

(56:56):
Yeah, right this has grown intobeing about more than that.
It's about the.
It's because it's not justabout your non-denominational
cultie upbringing.
It's not just about J and CJ'sexperience and their upbringing.
It's about genuinely theprinciples behind religion and

(57:21):
the way that it is taught Yep Ona mass scale.
In most instances that ishurtful and traumatizing and
scarring for people.
Yep, it's life-changing, verymuch agree.
And it's funny because theyhook you in by saying don't you

(57:43):
want the best for your kid,don't?
you want your kid to grow up andbe a good person and be
successful and prosper?
Right, they hook you in withthis whole thing.
That that's how you build agood foundation of youth in the
world, and really it's damaging.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
It's very damaging, like I've had to.
I mean, you've seen it.
I've texted you late at nightbeing like, oh my God, I just
realized this.
I can't believe these are myfeelings.
It literally changed.
I'm going to speak for myselfbecause I can't speak for
everyone else, but when you hearother victim stories, it
changed my entire way.

(58:27):
I think about myself and Iprocess life.
There's a couple episodes inhere where I'll get in deeper to
it, where I had that light bulbmoment like, oh my God, this is
why I respond this way, this iswhy I think this way, and it's
just beyond damaging.
Like sometimes I will sit andthink like what type of person

(58:50):
would I be if I wasn't raisedlike that?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Like that.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
I mean obviously being raised.
The way I was raised made meinto the person I am today and I
will take like the good aspectsof that.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Like there is a lot I feel in my life that because I
grew up like this, I can reachout and help other people, but
like also nobody should have tocarry that trauma either.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
And I think it's very like.
You know, it's very easy forsomebody to be like everything
you go through in life makes youwho you are.
But like, why does anyone haveto go through that in life?
Right, Like, can we ask thatquestion?
Like let's not be glass halffull for two seconds and say,
like why is this still?
Why is this so prominent?
Why is this still happening onthe regular basis?

(59:35):
That it is, and they'reweaponizing children and their
recruitment efforts?
Yeah, Like it's.
Oh, do you see how well behavedand modest and meek our
children are?
Like, don't you want your kidsto behave like this?

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Don't you want there to be, not be chaos around your
house.
Guess what guys?

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, it's just having a child is chaotic.
Yeah, it's great Right.
The chaos is great, though youknow what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It's not about how silent your child is.
It's not about how well behavedyour child is every two seconds
Like in the thought processthat you should have a four year
old that never has an outburstis just a ridiculous.
That's insanity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yep.
They're a child Yep Exactly myfavorite part like we're
treating these children liketheir puppies Right.
Yep, my absolute favorite partabout being a mom and watching
Piper is that I never like curbher voice If she wants to speak
like to an adult, I mean shedoes it usually very

(01:00:38):
respectfully.
She has questions.
I'm not going to stop her fromlike she.
That is something I was raisednot to do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Right, you can't ask questions already like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
You can't ask questions.
You have to be quiet.
You have to do this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
You have respect your chain of command Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Respect your chain of command, but like to see her
respectfully talk to somethingyou're taught in the military,
like why are we teachingchildren this?
It's exactly the same, but Iwould never, ever stop her from
letting her voice be heard, youknow what I mean.
And unless she's beingobviously out of control, but
like, even then she's a kid,right.

(01:01:14):
Which, like you, correct whensomebody is being disrespectful,
right, and there's ways to dothat without being a child.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Right, or letting them grow and ask questions in a
healthy way.
Like you don't teach somebody.
Like don't ask questionsBecause guess what?
Like that whole thing.
Like don't question adults.
So then when an adult assaultsyou, right, you're not going to
question Silence, you don'tquestion Correct, I deserve this

(01:01:47):
.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, guilt and shame , all those things and that's
not how a child should be,really no.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
It's like you don't you.
You get taught like don'tquestion, and then people don't
make that connection of.
That's how victims end up beingsilent victims.
But those are the exact thingsthat we're talking about.
When these people get on theair and say, like this is a
breeding ground for abuse andfor predators, those are that

(01:02:16):
exactly right.
There is one of the thingswe're talking about.
You're teaching your childrento respect, not respect
authority.
Take it, but take anything anauthority figure says as gospel
and you are not allowed toquestion it.
So what happens when anauthority figure does something
that you're like hmm, that's notokay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
You just keep your mouth shut.
Yup, and that's one thing.
Like I've had Piper even likecall me out on stuff, like
little things, even in.
Like normally, if it was mesaying that to my parents, I
would, I would have probablygotten my mouth slapped.
But then I like look at her andI'm like you're actually right,
like mommy shouldn't do that,or mommy did get too angry that

(01:02:58):
time, or you're right, Ishouldn't be blowing through the
stop sign.
I don't know.
Whatever she called me out on,you know what I mean and I'm
going to respect her forspeaking out.
I'm not going to tell her toshut her mouth.
You know what I mean, right?
She should feel.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Old enough to correct when she feels something is
right, mm, hmm, to at leastquestion.
Yeah, yep, I agree, any, justlike any other person should.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Mm, hmm, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
And I think it's.
I don't think this isinteresting, right, like I
actually I'm going to say like Ididn't realize how prevalent
this was, like this was such ananomaly to me growing up to meet
a kid, right, I was at homeschool, yeah, as an adult, so

(01:03:52):
many of my friends, mostlybecause my my friends were from
school.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
So of course, none of us were home school, correct,
yep.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
So to meet somebody outside of your circle of your
school that you were going to orlike was at some neighboring
high school, because you metthem through school.
Because, like I, went to, aCatholic school was not girl
school, so like we would combineevents with, like St Joe's,
which was a all boys school, andthen sometimes like they would
combine events with like all theschools, so you would have

(01:04:24):
friends that went to otherschools but you were all meeting
them through school.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Or like summer activities or whatever, which
these people don't send theirkids to, and they home school
them.
And, as an adult now that, likeI'm, you know, we're not all in
school anymore you're meetingpeople from like more diverse
backgrounds than just yourschool.
We have way more friends than Iever would have thought of.

(01:04:53):
That have experienced homeschooling at some point in time.
Yep, and what the Institute soI be, I feel, p teaches.
They actually provide you witha curriculum oh yeah, I wrote it
down and they tell you that youhave to homeschool your kids
Yep, I don't remember the exactwording, but essentially to like

(01:05:17):
, teach them to be good stewardsof God and protect them from
outside influences and whateverelse.
So they provide a curriculumfor these people to basically
indoctrinate every kid they havealong their way of having 11,
12, 13, 14 kids.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
It's called the advanced training Institute.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
So they're called the key to success.
I read several the other night.
Complete insanity.
And it literally is so to makesure your kids call uncle
turnout right, turn out right.
And I know they made astatement in here where one of
the girls is like instead oflearning math, we literally were

(01:06:00):
learning slut shaming.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Well he, he says in there that what the hell was it?
This one?
My eyeballs almost popped out.
He was like we teach thatevolution is I don't know, I
didn't write this one up.
They set it on the show, but itwas.
I don't know if it was Bill gotthird or if it was what's his

(01:06:22):
name, jim Bob Hang on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Well, while you're looking that up, I will touch on
speaking of like beinghomeschooled.
Like I wasn't necessarilyhomeschooled, but I was thinking
about it and our school.
I mean I only had like 14 kidsin my class.
It was not a big school, was Kthrough 12.
All those teachers were in thechurch and were like parents of

(01:06:49):
other kids.
So basically it was like beinghomeschooled, but in like a
larger environment.
You know what I mean.
Like it was basically the sameexact teachings and ways of
being homeschooled, but justtogether.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to be able to find it
this quickly here, but we willdo future episodes, yeah they
get way more into it in thesebooks that they teach.
Just because you know, theseare limited series.
There's four episodes.
They're not even an hour apiece.

(01:07:27):
They talk very generally about alot of the things and I think
it's really easy to brush pastreally exactly what these people
are teaching, and I think thatthat's actually the problem.
Yeah right, like we are livingin a time where, currently,
people are liking to liking andjusting like shock things like

(01:07:49):
serial killer stuff, right, cultstuff, whatever.
So make no mistake about it.
Like somebody produces shinyhappy people because they want
people to watch it.
I mean, I'm sure there's somepart of them that's like yeah,
we want to expose the story, butyou hope that you make money.
So at the end of the day they'renot really digging up what

(01:08:19):
exactly these people areteaching we speak of these
things from a very generalperspective and then from there,
whatever research you choose todo or not do is of your own
volition.
And I mean, how many people arejust going to jump to the next
documentary?
Oh, yeah, definitely, and thenthat's the last time they ever
hear about Bill Gothard everagain.
But I bet you, if you readparts of this book, that would

(01:08:42):
not be the last time that youever looked up Bill Gothard ever
again.
No, it's literally terrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I mean, you've seen some of the things that they
sent you from those littlebooklets.
Yeah, like they literally willtake like and I can't wait for
us to talk more about this theywill take like a scripture and
somehow turn that scripture intomath and I don't even know how
We'll be.
Like put on the full armor ofGod and then like one plus one

(01:09:07):
equals two, like how do you?
I don't get how you put thosetogether, but they do and it's
like booklet after booklet afterbooklet that has this same
stuff in there, and then mixedin with like don't worse curse
above your name.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I mean, the rough thing that they said about like
evolution was that it wasn'tscientific at all.
Yeah, it's like something to dowith God.
We'll find it eventually.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Yeah, it's where they start talking about the
creation Darwin's not even athing Right.
I mean evolution, isscientifically proven.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
What I mean.
Whatever Jesus's face, got on atowel.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
It's not just sweating dirt, anyway.
Yeah, so, yeah, so there wasjust, and then we kind of get
towards the end of the episodeat this point where they really
start exposing the things withJosh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Yeah, which is going to get interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Yeah, so we've talked a lot about, you know, having
85 kids, like getting them togrow up and be part of society,
and like this is all in the nameof once again spreading the
word of God.
But really what it is is it'slike we want to take over and

(01:10:26):
control all of these like massChrist amounts of people.
Like we want all of everybodyto subscribe to what we're
thinking and if you're not,you're going to be in the
minority.
And then how many times have weseen that in history?
And it results in, like thepersecution and genocide of an
entire group of people.
Yeah, like, make no mistake.
Like that, like just becausethey haven't been successful,

(01:10:50):
like that's what that leads to.
Like we've seen this in historyover and over again.
Thankfully, it seems that maybewe're a little wiser.
Maybe Maybe, who knows?
I mean, it's a weird time inhistory right now.
We're living history right now.
So, but at least up to thispoint, like we're not
experiencing something like thatin this moment.

(01:11:10):
But who knows?
I mean, they might be in themiddle of the beginning of
something crazy.
Very well could be, but, yeah,like we.
So they come out Josh isexposed as a child molester.
This gets to the point wherethis isn't the early on point
that we were talking aboutoriginally, where they just
brought him back and said he wasreformed.

(01:11:31):
They start talking about againwhere it comes up and now he's
actually genuinely in trouble.
And then there's a woman which,like this, was like the very
end of the episode.
She says and I mentioned thisalready Monsters are created,

(01:11:57):
pointing to what we're talkingabout right now.
Yes, these types of religiousupbringings are breeding these
types of people and alsobreeding perfect victims, and I

(01:12:19):
don't mean that to beinsensitive, no, Like I,
literally in my head, I'm likethat is egg.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
I'm 100% the perfect victim.
It's breeding the perfectvictim and I can point it out
and I will talk more when we getto the children that whole
episode that's coming up.
I will point out direct actionsthat have happened to me in my
life as a child and what it ledto growing up as an adult,

(01:12:47):
because there is a distinctcorrelation and it finally hit
me like oh, this is why this ishappening.
So I'm sure that will play apart, or maybe a little light
bulb will go off in someone elseand realize like this is how I
was raised and this is what cameout of it and it's not good.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
So that was the end of my notes.
That was the end of my notestoo.
Oh sweet, we did that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
I think I ended up.
Let me see, and I wrote endJosh Duggar, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
So yeah, we're going to take a break, yeah, and then
we'll come back and do a littleshoot in the shed on the Sunday,
but next episode that we do sothis I mean we've been recording
for a- minute today.
Yeah, so this might end up beingtwo parts, which we've been

(01:13:36):
doing a lot of lately.
Yeah, which is fine, which isgood, but the next time that we
record, we'll be doing episodetwo.
So if you are truly followingalong with us for the first time
on this series, it's coming ajuicy and you have more self
control than I do and youhaven't watched episode number
two yet.
This would be the time to catchyourself up before we record

(01:14:01):
the next episode.
Correct, I'm a chronic TV showbinger.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Yeah, I've watched episode one like 10 times yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
People are always like oh, do you like?
There's a show that like, you'dreally like, or like book club,
right?
Oh, we're going to only readchapters one and two.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Yeah, no, thank you, I'll be done.
No, I've read the books threetimes.
I don't have the self controlto close the book or not watch
the next episode so.
We're going to take a break,all right, thank you.