May 31, 2025 • 53 mins
What if we approach dating (and LIFE!) with genuine curiosity rather than the calculated performance and feigned ambivalence? With a commitment to compassionate relating rather than just detached, dehumanizing game-playing?
Join Dana and her dear friend Leah Garza—Akashic Records practitioner/teacher, decolonial scholar, and tender menace in the dating world—to unpack how to practice (naive) rebellion in our relationships and create new, much-needed pathways of connection.
Leah shares how she’s indestructible (and you are, too!), follows resonance over rules, strives for satisfaction over happiness, and tends to ghosting, disappointment, unmet needs, and more.
~ RESOURCES FROM THE JACUZZI-VERSE ~
- Apply for Living Systems! New cohort starts July 13 (https://www.wearelivingsystems.com/livingsystems)
- Find Leah on ig @crystalsofaltamira
- Get info for Dana & Leah’s Fall Equinox retreat in Joshua Tree! (https://bit.ly/leah-dana-retreat)
- Free grounding meditation with Dana—a practice of calling your energy back/nervous system tending/reclaiming your attention) ~ (http://bit.ly/grounding-now)
- wondervalley! go to bit.ly/wondervalleycry + use discount code CRYBABY
- one of Dana’s favorite poems on risk
- Enter to win a free coaching session ~ leave a 5-star rating (only) and a written review, to be entered in a monthly drawing for a free coaching session. Email dana@danabalicki.com the review title + your review name to enter. Winner announcements will be made across platforms mid-month.
// sound-editing/design ~ Rose Blakelock, theme song ~ Kat Ottosen, podcast art ~ Natalee Miller///
@danablix on ig 😭 feeling the pull for coaching support? go to danabalicki.com for inner/outer transformation 🖐️⭐️ leave a 5-star rating & review to be entered in a monthly raffle for a free coaching session (details in show notes) 🎁 share this with your favorite boo-hooer 😭
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, crybabies, welcome, welcome, welcome back
to Crying in my Jacuzzi.
The ebbs and flows of a livingand examined life where we live,
laugh, love in the Anthropocene.
And, as you may know, thisseason I mean really all the
seasons, but this season with afiner tune focus is about
rebellion, not as an end point,but as a crucial step, step
(00:23):
towards revolution, towardscivilizational shift in the
inner work world.
I call this a getting ready, toget ready phase and it is not
to be skipped or hurried through.
So we bring in our slow downmedicine and we peel the layers
back to look at the systems thatwe have been conditioned into,
(00:47):
external and internal, and howwe can be subversive, to
disorient from these systems, toreorient into new ways of being
together and to look at it,sure, at a systems-wide level,
but also being curious as to allthe ways in which we perform
(01:08):
our conditioning.
And through that curiosity and,of course, a healthy dose of
compassion and courage, we canplay with every aspect of our
lives as an opportunity topractice this dismantling, to
make room for shift, to makeroom for becoming more of
ourselves together and how tolove ourselves and each other
(01:31):
through all of it and find allthe ways in which we are
connected, and one of myfavorite thinkers, feelers,
beings of curiosity and desireis my dear beloved friend, leah
Garza.
She's a veteran teacher, apractitioner and teacher of the
Akashic Records, and also adecolonial scholar.
(01:54):
I consistently learn so muchfrom and with my friend Leah,
and I want you to stay tuned tothe end of the episode for two
really exciting opportunities toplay with Leah, because after
listening to this, you're gonnawanna to play with me, and Leah,
because double trouble what'smore fun than that?
And to learn about livingsystems, cohort four.
(02:16):
Trust me, you don't want tomiss this.
It's the juiciest, cutest, mostcurious, compassionate,
brilliant, courageous communitythat I've been a part of for so,
so long, long.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'lltell you more later, but let's
just go find Leah.
I think she's just through thisportal, crying in my jacuzzi,
(02:50):
crying in my jacuzzi, crying inmy jacuzzi, crying in my jacuzzi
.
Normally it would be like okay,leah, let's talk about
(03:19):
decoloniality, let's talk, and Iknow we will.
But I feel like there's a morespecific conversation that we
get to have today.
There's a finer tuned lens ofhow we relate to each other and
even dating and the idea ofbeing out in the world in
different ways.
I know you've been on a journey.
(03:40):
I'm.
You're a fucking menace andit's why I love you so much and
it's why we're talking right now.
I think it's why we're friends Iknow that what you have to
share, not just about the workyou do in the world, but your
own personal story, has got someelements of I don't feel I'm
not menacing no no I'm gonnasing in the best way, in a
(04:03):
slytherin way, you you're theheir of Slytherin.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, that maybe menace is just being assertive
to getting my needs met.
I was just telling my friendthat little anecdote of like I
think I told you this storyalready, but like, matching this
guy on this app liked me and Iwanted to like him back, but I
was on the phone so I wasdistracted, so I deleted him
(04:30):
instead.
And then I like, oh shit, Ididn't mean to do that.
And I noticed in his profilethat he was in San Francisco.
So I went to my friend wholives in San Francisco and is
also on the same app and I waslike, can you look for this guy?
Like just find this guy.
I don't know much about him.
Here's what his name is, here'swhat his profile like roughly
said.
When you find him, super likehim and send him a message.
(04:51):
That's basically like my friendwanted to match with you.
If you're still interested,here's your phone number, and
and.
And my friend was like are yousure you want to do this?
And I was like, yeah, why not?
Like I messed up, I missed mychance.
Like why not, I'm gonna make upfor it.
And she was like okay.
And I was like what?
And it wasn't until the guyfound me and then, like you know
(05:13):
, was messaging me that Irealized like that's incredibly
aggressive, like that's anincredibly aggressive pursuit.
And I didn't think I didn'thave any frame of reference
because I'm new to dating.
So I just felt like no, Imessed up, I'm gonna go after
what I want to get.
Like I don't understand likeyou just go, you just go get
(05:33):
what you want right in the worldand and you do it also in
dating.
But I'm learning as I talk toother people who are also single
and dating and using apps likeno, that's actually like, that's
like not like the etiquettethat has arisen around this.
Like online relationality isthat's.
You don't do that like.
You just like shy away, youjust like I don't know, I don't
(05:58):
know.
So I guess like that's a little.
I guess that's like a goodexample of like how I've become
like a menace to me.
I'm just taking the same waythat I operate in academia or in
my work life and just apply itto dating.
I don't know, I'm a swiftadministrator I like getting
(06:19):
shit done.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I wrote down uh, desire savant, even though I
know you actually done quite abit of work around desire, if
anyone, who's in your Akashicmentorship or living systems.
Yeah, we're not kiddos dating,we're grown ass, fucking humans.
There's a difference too, Ithink, in the maturity.
I think a lot about a maturerebel.
(06:41):
It's not just resistance forresistance sake, and what does
that mean?
And you know what I'm hearinghere is that desire to like have
the experience that you want tohave.
Well, of course I can, I'mperfect, and that maybe you've
learned through other realms,like in academia, super closed
(07:01):
system.
You know, as a teacher, hereyou are applying those
principles.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Dating is so fascinating to me as a person
that study as a psychologist, aperson study psychology I also
just was in a relationship for18 years, so I bypassed the like
dawning of the app age.
I didn't participate in that.
I don't think you did eitherright, so like when I now, at 44
, am coming to it, I'm lookingat it as a researcher.
(07:29):
These are insane ways ofbehaving with each other
terrible, nothing sweeping overthe land.
It's barbaric.
It's barbaric to like gamifyrelationship building, but it's
also like the inevitablebyproduct of the way our culture
has evolved in colonialism andmass consumerism and like it
(07:53):
makes sense that this is how wenow build relationships through
this like gamified way, but indoing so we lose the realness of
like humanity of the otherperson involved and it's like
that part breaks my heart.
And so I think some of therebellion that I feel it's not
intentional, it's like naiverebellion, like I refuse to
(08:17):
behave that way, like ifsomebody ghosts me.
I'm going to ask why, becausethat's an insane way to behave
with another person.
But I know for a lot of my mygirlfriends that are single and
a lot of my male friends thatare single that are dating.
You don't ask those questions.
You don't once a line like thathas been drawn.
(08:38):
The like status quoprescription of how you should
behave is that you just be madand vent to your friends or I
don't know.
There's just like so muchculture that has arisen around
these apps that I don't want toparticipate in and I don't want
it to wash over me and subvertmy big heart.
(09:00):
Or like like how much I lovepeople.
Or like turn me into a gameplayer.
I naively rebel meaning I'm notintentionally rebelling and
like I'm gonna, you know, fuckthis guy.
I'm gonna like message him.
I like I want to know why.
I want to know how do weresolve this?
(09:21):
We don't have to date, but likehow do we?
Can we like not leave it thisway?
Do you have unmet needs?
Is there a way to meet thoseneeds?
Like maybe a friendship is moreappropriate, maybe no contact
at all is appropriate, but likeno one ghosts if it isn't coming
from a place of like this isthe best idea I have.
I don't have better strategiesand so I'm interested and that's
(09:43):
like the work I'm interested indoing, like in my academic work
and in my like work withclients, is like unmet needs
work, so I'm not trying to makedating into work.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But but when your work is inherently ontological
or consciously ontological, likeit's gonna touch everything,
right?
yeah, yeah and so you can't justlike, oh, I'm over here dating
in this totally different way.
That's completely differentthan the way I live the rest of
my life and I think more andmore of us who like work in this
way and do the work ofinterpersonal, psychological,
(10:16):
emotional, spiritual work.
We're not immune fromseparation right, because we
live inside of it, but we're insome ways less unconscious about
it, so things are moreintegrated.
Yeah, and I love this idea oflike the naive rebellion,
because what I hear from you ishow you're using your attention.
Here are all the rules spokenand unspoken.
I'm also we're the same age.
(10:37):
I've been in a relationship now19 years.
When my partner, ryan and I met,we were, you know, sexting was
like t9, still, you know.
So it was just like chugga,chugga, chugga, you know.
Like c, yeah, huge yeah, and tascend.
So you dropping into this nowas like someone who didn't
(10:59):
necessarily get all theindoctrination of all the rules,
yeah, like were happening overthe past, however, many years of
relationshiping and dating,moving in this gamified way and
onto these platforms and throughthis funnel of technology, and
so that's why I said you know,dating savant, desire savant.
(11:22):
You are coming in with thisfreshness that matters, and
anytime I read articles aboutlike dating or I talk to any of
my clients and there's so muchlike calculation based on these
old rules, and then that'scompounded with their own
internalized old rules or rulesabout what a relationship is,
(11:43):
what it should feel like, howpeople should show up, how
amazing they should be right offthe bat or what are you know?
Red flags, pink flags, whateverthe flags and and I'm not
saying that those are bad thingsto have at all, I'm not.
I don't want to pathologize anyof it, but there is something
that you're speaking to aboutthe reclaiming our humanity.
There's an a humanness in this.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So one of the like, the repeating things I see on
these profiles of these you know, potential suitors of los
angeles you must swipe yas, youcannot swipe nas is.
Generally it goes like this I'mtotally paraphrasing I'm
looking for something casual, afriends with benefits situation
would be great.
No one night stands, so that'stoo casual.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You will let me cling to those lies.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
But if it leads to something more, I'm open.
So, and I've like observed thisand I think, like there's a
conflict and a tension just inour culture alone around being
casual, that I've had to come tothe realization that I am not a
casual person.
I experience life veryintensely when I have to be
(12:52):
casual.
Some things are of noimportance to me, so then I'm
like, yeah, whatever, and thatmight appear as casual.
That's not what I think casualmeans.
But when I have to enter into asituation where I have to
appear casual, I can feel thepart of myself that I'm pushing
down in order to swim in thosewaters.
And the more that I do thisstuff, the more dating and like
(13:16):
working with clients and gettingto know people and being in
psychology, the more I reallybelieve that, no matter what
someone tells me, no one iscasual.
Everyone has been deeply, deeplyhurt at some point in their
lives and they learned how toscab that wound physically,
(13:45):
emotionally, all the ways.
And now our culture has put ahigh price on being casual.
That didn't really affect me,I'm not really hurt, it's fine,
it's chill.
Oh, you stood me up, youghosted me, you blocked me, you
like unmatched with me on my wayto the date.
That's cool, man, that's chill.
It's not chill and I know thatit hurts everyone, but so, like
I'm interested in like one, howdo we make it okay to be hurt?
(14:08):
And two, how do we like arriveat like the courage of dialogue,
or like the courage ofcommunication, where we can be
like let's talk about can wetalk about the hurt?
Or like what happened?
Or like what do you need?
Again back to the unmet needs,but like dating happened, or
like what do you need?
Again back to the unmet needs,but like dating is also like
just in and of itself, an arenathat is so charged with emotion.
(14:31):
Like I have so many friendsthat when they go onto an app
and they're looking at basicallyan avatar of a human and
they're thinking in their mindsand I've clients do this too Is
this a potential partner forlife?
And I'm like, bro, that's theopposite of casual.
That is so intense you don'teven know.
Like, does a person put thetoilet seat down or not?
(14:54):
Like you don't even know.
Like are they going tocontribute to like the bills?
Like you like so.
So there's like this conflictof like and this is like the
nature of how colonialismgoverns us is like there's a
norm, a normative society thatwe want to participate and have
success in, and then there's theundercommons, where we actually
(15:14):
exist and where our hurt livesand where our inner monologue is
where we're eating pizza in bed.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
We don't tell anyone and like I really want to like
make the undercommons okay asmuch as I love being here in the
desert, it does take a toll onmy skin and my hair so dry, so
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Yeah, yeah, like the, I thinkof it like the Shadowlands,
where it's just the things thatwe feel we have to push down and
that we have to hide.
And I love what you said aboutno one is actually casual.
You know.
Part of what you're saying toois the system, the dating system
(16:50):
, the dating paradigm as it'sdeveloped.
It's like how well can youperform casualness?
How well can you performambivalence?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I've just sucked one year of your life away.
There's the possibility thatmodern dating is teaching us, is
grading us, on how well we canfeign ambivalence like lack of
care, and what we need is morecare, more humanity, not less of
(17:23):
it.
To me, that's what I'minterested in when I think about
rebellion.
How do we?
How do we do it with morehumanity and not and not less,
and not just like relying on thephotos to represent us or a
couple of sentences, or how wellwe have our initial chat game,
or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, what I hear when you're talking is like,
even like the notion ofrebellion is like there's a
subject object split, there's asplit between me and the thing
I'm rebelling against, there's adivide there, and so like that
in and of itself is reproducinglike modernist notions of
(18:03):
individualism.
So and sometimes we don't feellike we have a choice, it
doesn't feel right to justabandon my vision for like what
a just world looks like and likebecome like a Trump supporter.
That doesn't.
I'm not going to capitulate,I'm not going to surrender to
(18:24):
when I think, when I believethere's injustice happening, but
but I'm also like constantlylooking for where is the thing
I'm resisting, reproducing theobject object split, and one of
those ways that we're constantlyreproducing it is by being
afraid of risk.
Risk what risk?
(18:46):
So like dating is an inherently.
I'm using dating not as likenot to tell anyone about dating,
but like it's the, it's thearena that I'm doing my research
in right now.
It's like the place where I amlike exploring.
It could equally be a jobmarket.
It could be like, oh, I'mstarting a family or I'm moving
(19:07):
to a new city, but right now,for me, dating is the thing
that's up, and it has such richexamples of how humans show
themselves and hide themselves.
But like risk comes from notall risk, but a lot of the risk
in like you know, we've talkedabout like like there being no
safe spaces, and when we, whenwe think of safety as like a
(19:30):
place where we can prevent harmfrom happening, there is nowhere
on the planet where you canprevent harm from happening,
including dating, including what?
Especially in dating like you,in relationships, relationships
are inherently risky.
They're inherently riskybecause there's an external
factor of another person andthey're going to affect you.
And I just think about a lotabout like it's easy for me to
(19:53):
care for other people when Ifeel safe with risk, because
there's nothing that anotherperson can actually do to
destroy me, even if they dotheir worst, even if they're
like toxic, just the worst.
I'm indestructible.
And so I can go into riskysituations and I can actually
(20:17):
like fall in love with the devil.
I can like I don't want to marrythat person, or like live in my
house and like whatever, emptymy savings or whatever, but like
I can find, when I see peoplethrough this unmet needs land.
I'm like, oh, of course you'redoing that.
That's the way you're meetingyour unmet needs.
That's the strategy that you'velearned from childhood, that
(20:40):
you, of course that's how you'redoing it.
I can find charm there, but,because I know myself, there's
like a one, a monogamous chargewith dating that, even if you're
exploring other lifestyles orwhatever, there's still this
resistance or rebellion tomonogamy, and monogamy is
crafted under under colonialism,so like, if it's this, then
(21:03):
it's this.
If I find them charming, then Imust love them, and if I love
them, I must marry them and beattached to them forever and we
can walk around the world lovingeverything and not being
attached to anything if we want.
Like to me, it's not risky tofall in love, but I know a lot
of people who have beenheartbroken find it it
incredibly risky, like I have amom who got divorced in 1986 and
(21:26):
then never got another partner.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
There's so much here in terms of risk which I want to
come back to.
But the idea, too, of everyonehas their own relationships to
love and care and because theyhave their own relationships to
it, they have their own beliefsabout it.
Right, they have their ownpatterns around it and it's
usually, you know, it's handeddown from all, all angles
(21:51):
culture and our ancestry and ourfamily and parallel lives, and
there's the idea that people aregoing in and like it's like
they're bringing that, like thatshadow lands with them, the
undergarments, they're all theirstuff.
Yes, maybe everywhere is, youknow, it has a level of risk,
but inside of intimaterelationships it's like
(22:12):
relationships will stagnate ifthere's no risk.
I'm so bored and all of us havehad some experience of that and
it can be too risky.
It's too scary for me becauseof what's happened to me before
and where there's like a levelof connection that is sort of
(22:43):
reached and then stagnated.
And what I'm hearing from you is, you know, using this research
field to continuously playinside of humanness and risk and
connection and care and love.
But like with that, you know,when you say like I'm
indestructible, like no one canharm me, really Like, can you
(23:08):
talk more about that, cause Iknow where that comes from.
But that is not what a lot ofpeople carry with them.
They're moving.
At any moment, consciously orunconsciously, they could be
taken apart, taken down to thestuds, and that's fucking
terrifying.
And so they can't be in thenaive rebellion, they can't be
(23:29):
in this experiment that you'retalking about with surrendering
to humanity, surrendering tocare and having that courage to
communicate at a level ofhonesty, even if nothing comes
from it other than that oneconversation yeah, I'm
indestructible really comes frommy spiritual practice in the
(23:51):
Akashic records or the Akashaand really coming to an
understanding which, for peoplethat don't know, is like a new
age kind of spiritual it's.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's a, it's an old thing, it's a very.
The way I've learned it is very, very much through the new age
lens, which has a lot of issueswith it, but one of the things
that I've come to understand isthat I and every being is an
iteration or or belongs to agreater soul.
That and that soul is adimension of consciousness or
(24:23):
whatever you an energy, whateveryou want to call it it's.
It's an energy of, of agency,and it has no beginning and no
end, so it's eternal.
So, because I come from thiseternal thing, there's something
about me now that is eternal.
Not my human body Clearly, humanbodies are not eternal, they
die and decompose but somethingelse about me is eternal and so
(24:49):
if I, even if it's like just adiluted story that I want to
hold about myself, I've broughtthat now into my psyche and into
my awareness so that I knowthat, like I know that like I
can go into like scarysituations, I can go into like
(25:10):
physically scary situations,like I can cross the street and
a car could actually strike medead, and there's a part of me
that will never die, and so,like, what could kill me in a
dating app, then Do you have asecond to eat my farts.
There's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing.
(25:30):
That doesn't mean that I don'tget hurt or disappointed or have
all of those emotionalresponses that we're conditioned
to have in response torelationships.
Disappointment will notdevastate me, and I think, like
disappointment is a really big.
It can be a huge trauma and wedon't because we're so hell bent
(25:55):
on being casual.
Like what disappointment reallyis is when you expect reality
to be a certain way, and thenit's not a new definition of
pain and suffering.
And it can be as small as Iwent to the store to buy this
thing, but they ran out.
I'm disappointed.
But it could be as big as Ithought my dad would be present
for my childhood and he was not.
(26:16):
Or I thought this person was apart of my life, but my grandpa
died when I was a kid and thenreality was different.
Those are all forms ofdisappointment.
Some are so cataclysmic thatthey shift our sense of reality,
and then we have trauma aroundit.
But we use the worddisappointment as if it's casual
(26:37):
, like, oh, you're justdisappointed.
Grow up Like, yeah, life isfull of disappointment.
I hate that.
I hate that.
So it isn't to say that like Idon't experience disappointment
or reality being different thanwhat I thought it was.
But like it's not going to killme, it's not going to kill any
of us, but you have to look atthe story of yourself that
actually believes that.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And I'm hearing from you all of these little ways in
which you're taking the thingsthat are sort of like in the
shadow lands, in the undercommons, in the unconscious oh
yeah, right, I've got to becasual, so I can't really have
such a big heart here oh, I haveto.
Something hurt me and so I feellike really just kind of pretend
like that didn't hurt me onlike even a profoundly deep
(27:25):
level, because it reminded me ofsomething about my, my
childhood.
If all our energy is going intopushing down and trying to
perform casualness, normalcy,desirability and this like
really small, small little lensthat we've been taught, what
we're missing out on is theability to actually be in
(27:46):
relationship in a deeper way,which, in dating, is why y'all
are there in the first place.
We go out to be with otherpeople is to like be seen, to be
heard, to be understood,whether we know that that's a
desire or not.
We're trying to like have thoseneeds met and I guess I'm
looking at it like in the way,like this lens, of disrupting
(28:10):
the narrative, because that'snot what you've learned through
recognizing your eternalness.
There's, there's somethingyou're unwilling to give up and
sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, you know, as you you're talking, I'm like
thinking a lot about howrebellion and resistance are
totally different and they canoverlap, but they're like very
different and like one of thethings that gave me the most
fear about embarking on datingafter being in a relationship
for 18 years was like peoplewill find me disgusting because
(28:41):
like my whole background withdisgust and all that stuff.
But, um, if I pretend I'm notdisgusting or pretend that I
don't have a fear of that and Ijust perform normal and perform
dating, perform normal dating,perform girl dating, whatever
that performance is, I'm stillresisting it to such a painful
(29:06):
degree I'm resisting.
That disgust is in the back ofmy mind like whispering at me.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
What you resist persists.
That's Carl Jung.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yes, but when I just am like, yeah, I'm fucking
disgusting.
And then there's the wholenarrative of like disgust
doesn't really exist, we can atleast go down that argument.
But that's not the point.
The point is that, like now,I'm actually rebelling against
disgust because I've acceptedthat that's what it is and it's
not going to like quiet anymore.
Yeah, again, dating has beensuch a crazy projection screen
(29:36):
upon which I'm projecting andseeing all the ways that I am a
person I don't know, all theways that I have evolved and the
ways that I think of myself,and, yeah, it's wild energetic
(30:13):
grounding is the age-oldcornerstone of countless
spiritual and magical practices.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
For me, grounding has been one of the most important
and nourishing practices of myadult life.
It's how I tend to my nervoussystem.
It's how I call my attentionand my energy back to myself.
When it's scattered, when I'min the swirl, it helps me
(30:40):
connect to myself and thosearound me that I care about,
because it helps me practicestaying, practice presence,
practice tenderness, even whenthe world around me doesn't seem
to have a whole lot of any ofthose things.
It's even more important than Ido that we do.
(31:01):
It's even more important than Ido that we do.
So go get your free groundingguided meditation, the link in
the show notes, have me in yourear, use it whenever you wish.
We could all use some slow downmedicine right about now.
(31:24):
You talked earlier about whenyou've risked.
I mean, since you're in sort ofconsistent risk, right and like
and been and been hurt or been.
I know you explained the partabout like.
No one can really hurt youbecause you are eternal, but
also because you know thatyou're in the experiment that's
going to ping all of the thingsright like you have.
(31:45):
You have your undergarments,you've got your labrea tar pits
right, like we all do yeah,we're human.
That's our human part.
For anyone who's listening andbeing, I'm dating, I'm an
eternal being.
I want, to like, get on thisrisk train and be open up and
naively rebel in these morehonest conversations wherever
(32:05):
they go, being unattached to theoutcomes.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
How are you with those moments that do ping your?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, the hurty ones.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
The hurty pings.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, the first hurty ping was leaving an 18-year
relationship.
An 18-year relationship thatwas fine and could have just
kept going.
You know, it wasn't like I was.
There was no abuse, there wasno like event.
I mean, there was an event thattold me it was time to go, but
there wasn't an event that was.
There was nothing in therelationship that was really bad
.
It just was not the right placefor me.
(32:38):
And so leaving that was likevery hurty and but such a pain,
such a like no, you got to go.
This is it.
This is it.
It's loud.
And then I observe in with mystudents, like in my, my Akashic
mentorship.
One of the things that we do alot is invoke this observer
perspective, where you'reobserving yourself and there's
(33:05):
something about the distancebetween observing yourself and
being in your physical body,where you can like see a bigger
picture, you can take yourselfout of the intensity of your
emotions, because emotions mightlimit what options you make
available to yourself if, ifyou're really angry or you're
really hurt or whatever, youmight not see what other options
are available to you, and solike just becoming a constant
observer of myself, which is notthe same thing as bypassing my
(33:29):
body or being out of my body.
It's not that at all.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
It's.
It's like being able to observe, like, oh wow, this is really
bad.
I was really dissociated andhurt for the first two weeks of
this.
But you know what I noticed onthat 15th day, that I started to
come around a little bit more.
Or I noticed I, you know, I Imoved into my own apartment and
I was living.
I'm living here for the firsttime on my own in 44 years.
(33:55):
I've never had my own place andI don't like it.
And the first couple months Iwas like I hate to be here.
I'd always work at a coffeeshop.
I just don't like it.
It's too quiet, it's toounalive.
And then I noticed, like onthat seventh month, that I was
coming home from a grocery storeand I was excited to get home
like, oh, that's different.
So, like I observe, I use theobserver perspective on myself
(34:19):
to constantly be looking at howam I evolving through the hurt?
That's really key for me.
Yeah, I will say, like, thefirst time that a person ghosted
me it's happened now twice, I'mgonna say two and a half times,
because the third time was likea soft ghost baby ghost or
ghost baby or something inbetween the ghost baby spectrum
(34:39):
because, like, if I texted thatperson right now they'd be gone.
But but the first time I hadbeen talking to this person and
it was like kind of a long timeof talking, like a month or two
or something, and to me thatfeels like too long to
proliferate through text,because there's so much you miss
in communication when text youneed to meet someone face to
(35:01):
face.
But anyway, we made a date tomeet and before we could ever
meet he ghosted me and I was sosad, but I knew instantly that
this isn't even about me,because he didn't even get to
meet me.
So like, if I'm looking at thisas a researcher, so like, if
(35:26):
I'm looking at this as aresearcher, he doesn't even have
evidence, like real physicalevidence, upon which to base his
decision to ghost.
Therefore, this must be ahundred percent about him.
So having that kind ofresearcher perspective helped me
.
But then I was like well, you'restill hurt.
Even though you know this isabout him, you're still hurt.
And so, observing myself, I sawmyself as like yeah, because,
little girl, you was left behinda bunch of times, so what's up
(35:49):
for you right now isn't evenabout this person, it's that
this event touched somethingvery old and deep, that you like
some original hurts that youbuilt walls for and you've built
coping strategies for and youwent, you know, open heart, into
this situation and so that'swhat's hurt right now.
And so being able to likeclearly parse out okay, it's not
(36:12):
the guy, it's clearly not me,oh, this is an old wound, and I
know strategies for working withold wounds because that's the
work I do, and I know noteveryone has those strategies
but, like for me, being able toclearly see what part is hurt,
what am I conflating?
What am I separating?
What am I parsing?
What am I confusing?
(36:32):
Am I confused?
Can I just sit on this?
Do I have to like fix it rightaway?
Can it just hurt for a while?
Can I get distracted?
Can I dissociate?
Can I go do something else?
Can I go have a drink?
Can I like pretend it's not?
Can I bypass it right now?
Cause that's a good strategy?
Like I just look at all thethings that I have available to
(36:52):
me and sometimes I can't get toit.
Sometimes I'm like well, thisis a puzzler.
I do feel I do.
I am taking this one personally, yeah.
Do I am taking this onepersonally?
Yeah, and, and that's okay too.
But then the other thing aboutobserving myself that I've
noticed is that like I have areally pretty good bounce back
window, can't keep a good holddown, so like within about two
(37:15):
weeks I'm like that sucks on tothe next guy thing, whatever.
So for me my bounce back isshort.
For other people it may not beshort, it may be long.
It may it may be long.
For my mom it's been like 50years.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But right just a big orbit.
So yeah.
I mean, I really appreciate, youknow, that observer work.
I call it like the warmobserver, the compassionate
observation, like the two-parter, where you create that little
work.
I call it like the warmobserver, the compassionate
observation, like the two-parter, where you create that little
bit of space to observe yourself, observe the patterns.
And it's great to do that workoutside of the trigger, right,
(37:53):
because then when you aretriggered and it is happening
and it is activated yeah, youhave a little muscle memory.
Oh right, I know how to look atthis.
Here are my, my strategies thatI turn to that are old ones,
okay, and having some compassionfor when we do that, because we
just will sometimes.
Or here are the new strategiesthat I've been working on and,
oh right, here's the deeperplace that it comes from, here's
(38:14):
the voice that says this,here's the part that's holding
it into place here and that Ifeel like part of what you're
saying is the benefit of doingdeeper inner work.
When we're going out to be inwhether it's relationship, on
dating apps or people at work orfriends, community you move to
a new place, you go to a new job.
It's kind of all the same thing.
Our inner work, ourinterpersonal work has a place
(38:36):
in the web, has a place insupporting us in being in
connection with other people,because when we know ourselves,
that also gives us theopportunity to be a little
riskier.
We understand our own risktolerance and like we understand
that, like, okay, this couldhurt, that could happen, or
something amazing could happenor something I can't even see
(38:56):
from here could happen.
But as we have that deeperconnection with ourselves and
there's a commitment to that,then the like, commitment to
engage with other people becomessomething that helps us
becoming more ourselves.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that part about what parts about me and what
parts not about me, like, oh,this person did this thing and
to understand, oh right, that'snot mine, that's theirs.
Oh, but what part is mine?
Oh, there is some part.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, that's not mine .
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I'm telling you, baby , that's not mine, right, and
sometimes there will be andsometimes there won't be.
So I really I appreciate that alot.
Those are things that I thinktake time and practice Totally
and like we're worth thepractice too If you're out there
in the world wanting topotentially build something with
(39:43):
other people one person, lotsof people, whatever we're worth
the commitment to like, knowourselves and understand our own
sticky pain points and the waythat you do it, like in the
Akashic work right or in livingsystems, and I'll put all that
(40:04):
info down at the bottom sopeople can find you.
But all of that is aboutrelationship.
All of that work is about howto be in relationship you know
we do it in community and thenalso about ourselves, and then
the seen and unseen.
There's a richness to it youletting it be this experiment in
(40:24):
living Like you're not how do Ifeel?
How do I show up?
Oh my God, I did this thing, Idid that thing, that person did
this thing, that person did thatthing.
That's how I responded.
Oh wow, like I thought I wasgoing to be this way and now I'm
this way.
And that initial risk I don'tthink should be undersold at all
of like you leaving an 18 yearrelationship as a jumping off
(40:47):
point and you knowing yeah, yeah, right, you knowing that it was
time to go, like you werelistening and I think there are
probably a lot of people outthere that feel that push and
feel that call and are so scaredto leave the like, stability
and the known.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
It could be anything too.
It could be like leaving a job,moving to a new place, leaving
a marriage, changing yourrelationship with your family,
ending a friendship with someone.
Like it could be any big changethat you thought was just.
This is my reality.
I have no power here.
It's so scary, but I don't havethe words to express like how
(41:27):
much more important satisfactionis than happiness.
Yeah, like being satisfied.
I wrote about this in thisnewsletter I just wrote recently
.
But like and I didn't even thinkabout it until I wrote this
newsletter but like satisfactionis so boring, like the concept.
It's such a like boring.
Like like if you do a survey,it's like you know how satisfied
(41:51):
are you and you're measuring it.
Or like what's 10 is totallysatisfied, zero is not satisfied
at all, and it's like satisfiedis like what?
Like my mom is content with hermashed potatoes at the
restaurant.
Like, like that's not whatsatisfaction is it?
What?
Like my mom is content with hermashed potatoes at the
restaurant.
Like, like that's not whatsatisfaction is.
It's like satisfaction isactually to me more akin to
abundance, if we think ofabundance the way Bashar frames
(42:13):
it, which is to have exactlywhat you need when you need it.
Like satisfaction is exactlythe round peg going into the
round hole.
Like it's exactly the round peggoing into the round hole, like
it's exactly the right fit,it's exactly the right thing.
And I think, like often wedon't reach for that.
We reach for the thing that thestory in our head tells us we
will be happy with, yeah, andthen we make ourselves happy
(42:37):
around the thing instead of,like, reaching for satisfaction
which is like, oh, this is, thisis life, customized for me,
this is the way I want it.
Yeah, when you follow resonance, when you follow just the yes
and stay away from the nose,you're taken to a, to a place of
(42:57):
satisfaction that you couldn'teven dream of, because you don't
even know yourself that well.
You've been over here aimingfor happiness and success the
way it's been taught to youquota satisfied, like you might
not even know what's resonant.
I was talking to my friend lastnight about dating.
He's single too, and we weretalking about, like how do you
(43:18):
approach when you're looking atan app?
And he's like I look at someoneand I wonder could I be happy
with this person?
And and he's like I look atsomeone and I wonder could I be
happy with this person and I waslike that's insane.
I look at a person and I don'teven have cognitive language.
I'm like is it a yes or no?
And that's it Matching with aperson or a job, or a phenomenon
, or an idea or a project orwhatever.
(43:40):
I really think that for everyone, or whatever there, I really
think that for everyone, thereis a precognitive offering of
like is it resonant, is it a yesor no?
And we're so taught to like,ignore that that we have to go
into the intellect.
Is it valid?
Is it going to make sense to dothis?
Is it worth my time?
Is it going to lead to success?
What are the outcomes?
Is the work input worth theoutput?
(44:01):
Like, we go straight into thatand when we do that with
relationships and then we missmeeting cool people that are
resonant to us.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, I mean this comes up a lot in my practice
with folks where we're talkingabout vision, specifically
inside of relationships, and ifthe person is in a relationship,
we have to suspend the personthey're in relationship with and
actually and take them out ofthe equation, because so often
they'll think about, like, well,what they want in relationship
to that person and what theythink that person will give them
(44:33):
.
Yeah, we move through the worldof being like, well, what could
the world give me, what might Ibe able to get?
And we like shape our desiresaround that, and so much of that
is like perception andconditioning and fear and old
pain and Ooh, I can maybe get alittle bit of this, I can maybe
get a little bit of that.
And so then we're like well,that's what I want, I just want
(44:54):
a little bit of that.
That's not aliveness, right,that's like existence, which is
different.
It's like that's not that deepsatisfaction, and I think you're
right.
Like so, many of us don't knowwhat that is because we've not
been taught to seek it, to knowit to feel it because it
requires that resonance,requires like a level of, like
(45:16):
self-trust Right.
And if we trust ourselves, thenwe would know how to trust each
other and be like oh, yourexperience is real too, Just as
real as mine.
You get into likepluriversality here, where the
many worlds I I know how to likeask, listen, trust and act from
that deep knowing place.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
And we would be terrible fucking consumers.
We were knowing how to meet ourown needs even if we didn't
need other things around us,right like we wouldn't be as
susceptible to to just likegrabbing hungry in these other
ways.
And that's what I also feel isthat subtle subversiveness of
(45:56):
like where we're putting ourattention.
Resonance requires attention.
It requires a practice of likesubtle attention.
Yeah, you have to know how tolisten, but it's a practice, you
don't have to know it, right?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
off the bat.
That's exactly what I wrote inthat newsletter about like
listening to our own resonanceis actually subverting the
state's agenda for us.
That designs us to be consumers, and like we're not designed to
be like engaged in civics.
We're not designed to like takethe responsibility of, like
(46:28):
civic order.
We're not citizens here.
We're designed to be consumers.
That's how we participate ingovernment and culture and
society is through consumption,and so, in order for us to be
good consumers, we have to betaught that that's what we are
from the day that we're born,and everything revolves around a
consumption mindset.
(46:50):
So, like, you have a grade pointaverage.
You look at how many friendsyou have on Instagram, how many
likes did you get, how muchmoney do you have?
You're constantly quantifyingyour value here, and so, like
resonance is unquantifiable andit's momentary, so it happens in
the moment of being presentedwith something.
There is no planning for it.
(47:12):
What's resonant to one personmay not be resonant to another.
It's so like circumstantial,that like it's unpredictable,
and it it like satisfaction islike going to Trump consumerism
yeah, it's just going to.
And so, like satisfactionactually is, while it feels
(47:34):
really good, I think it feelsbetter than happiness, whatever
that even is, it also isincredibly radical and
rebellious too is.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It also is incredibly radical and rebellious too.
Yeah, I think you're.
You're right.
I mean, I know you are, atleast from my heart, you know of
.
I feel like all of what we'vebeen talking about here, too, is
how to not consume each other,how to not just like chew, chew,
eat, gobble each other up, cheweach other up and like spit
each other out, as we'redesigned to do.
Yeah, yeah, right, and like howwe're disorienting from that
(48:10):
the possibility, because we cando that.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And like orient towards another way of being
with each other A resonant way.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, the resonant way.
Yeah, I love that.
I love you.
Love that.
Yeah, this is so fun.
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
This is really fun yeah, thank you friend, I really
appreciate this.
Yeah, thanks for having me Ilove it always All right, you
(48:51):
made it here to the end of theepisode, so you get a cookie,
and the cookie is an invitationto join Living Systems cohort
four.
Living Systems is an experiment, a project, a party, a ceremony
, a defection, a perspective, anecology of curiosity and
(49:11):
belonging.
It's a place in community tomake new stories about the
worlds that we live in and theones that we want to bring into
being.
Living Systems is an immersive,year-long program designed to
take you on a journey ofexploration and transformation
beyond the isolation of colonialreality.
(49:35):
I have been a part of LivingSystems as a guest teacher and a
student for all three yearsthat it's been in existence and
I have met some of my favoritehumans, and more than humans,
through this work.
So if you've been yearning tocommit to collective growth, to
(49:57):
transformative learning, toconnecting with other deeply
curious people and to be a partof undoing the legacy of
colonialism and choose to upholdthe right to the dignity of
life on earth, this is the place.
Living Systems is your space.
Go to wearelivingsystemscom.
(50:17):
I'll put the link in the shownotes.
You can reach out to me and askme any questions that you might
have on Insta.
I'm Dana Blix.
You can absolutely.
Dm me.
You can email me, dana atdanablickycom.
And then Leah and I are going tobe leading a weekend workshop,
(50:38):
retreat, immersive experience inSeptember out in my neck of the
woods, joshua Tree, california.
Save the date.
This will be the weekend ofSeptember 20th and 21st.
We'll have more info up aboutit soon.
There's a link in the shownotes if you want to get on the
list.
No big deal Two transformativeexperiences waiting for you to
(51:01):
say yes, thanks for tuning in,thanks for being such an
impeccable crybaby.
May you go be a menace.
May you go be a naive rebel.
May you know in your heart, inyour cellular membranes, without
a doubt, that you belong hereand we belong to each other.
(51:57):
Crying in my jacuzzi oh, boopthat subscribe button so you
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And if you are listening onApple Podcasts, give us a rating
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Speaker 2 (52:05):
Five stars.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
And a written review.
Send me the name of your reviewand I'll add you to the monthly
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Subscribing, rating andreviewing are amazing and they
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Keep questioning, keep feeling,keep rebelling in all the ways
(52:50):
that matter.
And remember the jacuzzi iseverywhere.
At any moment you could enterinto the version of
non-normative consciousness thatis jacuzzi consciousness.
Hey, crybabies, welcome, welcome, welcome back
to Crying in my Jacuzzi.
The ebbs and flows of a livingand examined life where we live,
laugh, love in the Anthropocene.
And, as you may know, thisseason I mean really all the
seasons, but this season with afiner tune focus is about
rebellion, not as an end point,but as a crucial step, step
(00:23):
towards revolution, towardscivilizational shift in the
inner work world.
I call this a getting ready, toget ready phase and it is not
to be skipped or hurried through.
So we bring in our slow downmedicine and we peel the layers
back to look at the systems thatwe have been conditioned into,
(00:47):
external and internal, and howwe can be subversive, to
disorient from these systems, toreorient into new ways of being
together and to look at it,sure, at a systems-wide level,
but also being curious as to allthe ways in which we perform
(01:08):
our conditioning.
And through that curiosity and,of course, a healthy dose of
compassion and courage, we canplay with every aspect of our
lives as an opportunity topractice this dismantling, to
make room for shift, to makeroom for becoming more of
ourselves together and how tolove ourselves and each other
(01:31):
through all of it and find allthe ways in which we are
connected, and one of myfavorite thinkers, feelers,
beings of curiosity and desireis my dear beloved friend, leah
Garza.
She's a veteran teacher, apractitioner and teacher of the
Akashic Records, and also adecolonial scholar.
(01:54):
I consistently learn so muchfrom and with my friend Leah,
and I want you to stay tuned tothe end of the episode for two
really exciting opportunities toplay with Leah, because after
listening to this, you're gonnawanna to play with me, and Leah,
because double trouble what'smore fun than that?
And to learn about livingsystems, cohort four.
(02:16):
Trust me, you don't want tomiss this.
It's the juiciest, cutest, mostcurious, compassionate,
brilliant, courageous communitythat I've been a part of for so,
so long, long.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'lltell you more later, but let's
just go find Leah.
I think she's just through thisportal, crying in my jacuzzi,
(02:50):
crying in my jacuzzi, crying inmy jacuzzi, crying in my jacuzzi
.
Normally it would be like okay,leah, let's talk about
(03:19):
decoloniality, let's talk, and Iknow we will.
But I feel like there's a morespecific conversation that we
get to have today.
There's a finer tuned lens ofhow we relate to each other and
even dating and the idea ofbeing out in the world in
different ways.
I know you've been on a journey.
(03:40):
I'm.
You're a fucking menace andit's why I love you so much and
it's why we're talking right now.
I think it's why we're friends Iknow that what you have to
share, not just about the workyou do in the world, but your
own personal story, has got someelements of I don't feel I'm
not menacing no no I'm gonnasing in the best way, in a
(04:03):
slytherin way, you you're theheir of Slytherin.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, that maybe menace is just being assertive
to getting my needs met.
I was just telling my friendthat little anecdote of like I
think I told you this storyalready, but like, matching this
guy on this app liked me and Iwanted to like him back, but I
was on the phone so I wasdistracted, so I deleted him
(04:30):
instead.
And then I like, oh shit, Ididn't mean to do that.
And I noticed in his profilethat he was in San Francisco.
So I went to my friend wholives in San Francisco and is
also on the same app and I waslike, can you look for this guy?
Like just find this guy.
I don't know much about him.
Here's what his name is, here'swhat his profile like roughly
said.
When you find him, super likehim and send him a message.
(04:51):
That's basically like my friendwanted to match with you.
If you're still interested,here's your phone number, and
and.
And my friend was like are yousure you want to do this?
And I was like, yeah, why not?
Like I messed up, I missed mychance.
Like why not, I'm gonna make upfor it.
And she was like okay.
And I was like what?
And it wasn't until the guyfound me and then, like you know
(05:13):
, was messaging me that Irealized like that's incredibly
aggressive, like that's anincredibly aggressive pursuit.
And I didn't think I didn'thave any frame of reference
because I'm new to dating.
So I just felt like no, Imessed up, I'm gonna go after
what I want to get.
Like I don't understand likeyou just go, you just go get
(05:33):
what you want right in the worldand and you do it also in
dating.
But I'm learning as I talk toother people who are also single
and dating and using apps likeno, that's actually like, that's
like not like the etiquettethat has arisen around this.
Like online relationality isthat's.
You don't do that like.
You just like shy away, youjust like I don't know, I don't
(05:58):
know.
So I guess like that's a little.
I guess that's like a goodexample of like how I've become
like a menace to me.
I'm just taking the same waythat I operate in academia or in
my work life and just apply itto dating.
I don't know, I'm a swiftadministrator I like getting
(06:19):
shit done.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I wrote down uh, desire savant, even though I
know you actually done quite abit of work around desire, if
anyone, who's in your Akashicmentorship or living systems.
Yeah, we're not kiddos dating,we're grown ass, fucking humans.
There's a difference too, Ithink, in the maturity.
I think a lot about a maturerebel.
(06:41):
It's not just resistance forresistance sake, and what does
that mean?
And you know what I'm hearinghere is that desire to like have
the experience that you want tohave.
Well, of course I can, I'mperfect, and that maybe you've
learned through other realms,like in academia, super closed
(07:01):
system.
You know, as a teacher, hereyou are applying those
principles.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Dating is so fascinating to me as a person
that study as a psychologist, aperson study psychology I also
just was in a relationship for18 years, so I bypassed the like
dawning of the app age.
I didn't participate in that.
I don't think you did eitherright, so like when I now, at 44
, am coming to it, I'm lookingat it as a researcher.
(07:29):
These are insane ways ofbehaving with each other
terrible, nothing sweeping overthe land.
It's barbaric.
It's barbaric to like gamifyrelationship building, but it's
also like the inevitablebyproduct of the way our culture
has evolved in colonialism andmass consumerism and like it
(07:53):
makes sense that this is how wenow build relationships through
this like gamified way, but indoing so we lose the realness of
like humanity of the otherperson involved and it's like
that part breaks my heart.
And so I think some of therebellion that I feel it's not
intentional, it's like naiverebellion, like I refuse to
(08:17):
behave that way, like ifsomebody ghosts me.
I'm going to ask why, becausethat's an insane way to behave
with another person.
But I know for a lot of my mygirlfriends that are single and
a lot of my male friends thatare single that are dating.
You don't ask those questions.
You don't once a line like thathas been drawn.
(08:38):
The like status quoprescription of how you should
behave is that you just be madand vent to your friends or I
don't know.
There's just like so muchculture that has arisen around
these apps that I don't want toparticipate in and I don't want
it to wash over me and subvertmy big heart.
(09:00):
Or like like how much I lovepeople.
Or like turn me into a gameplayer.
I naively rebel meaning I'm notintentionally rebelling and
like I'm gonna, you know, fuckthis guy.
I'm gonna like message him.
I like I want to know why.
I want to know how do weresolve this?
(09:21):
We don't have to date, but likehow do we?
Can we like not leave it thisway?
Do you have unmet needs?
Is there a way to meet thoseneeds?
Like maybe a friendship is moreappropriate, maybe no contact
at all is appropriate, but likeno one ghosts if it isn't coming
from a place of like this isthe best idea I have.
I don't have better strategiesand so I'm interested and that's
(09:43):
like the work I'm interested indoing, like in my academic work
and in my like work withclients, is like unmet needs
work, so I'm not trying to makedating into work.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But but when your work is inherently ontological
or consciously ontological, likeit's gonna touch everything,
right?
yeah, yeah and so you can't justlike, oh, I'm over here dating
in this totally different way.
That's completely differentthan the way I live the rest of
my life and I think more andmore of us who like work in this
way and do the work ofinterpersonal, psychological,
(10:16):
emotional, spiritual work.
We're not immune fromseparation right, because we
live inside of it, but we're insome ways less unconscious about
it, so things are moreintegrated.
Yeah, and I love this idea oflike the naive rebellion,
because what I hear from you ishow you're using your attention.
Here are all the rules spokenand unspoken.
I'm also we're the same age.
(10:37):
I've been in a relationship now19 years.
When my partner, ryan and I met,we were, you know, sexting was
like t9, still, you know.
So it was just like chugga,chugga, chugga, you know.
Like c, yeah, huge yeah, and tascend.
So you dropping into this nowas like someone who didn't
(10:59):
necessarily get all theindoctrination of all the rules,
yeah, like were happening overthe past, however, many years of
relationshiping and dating,moving in this gamified way and
onto these platforms and throughthis funnel of technology, and
so that's why I said you know,dating savant, desire savant.
(11:22):
You are coming in with thisfreshness that matters, and
anytime I read articles aboutlike dating or I talk to any of
my clients and there's so muchlike calculation based on these
old rules, and then that'scompounded with their own
internalized old rules or rulesabout what a relationship is,
(11:43):
what it should feel like, howpeople should show up, how
amazing they should be right offthe bat or what are you know?
Red flags, pink flags, whateverthe flags and and I'm not
saying that those are bad thingsto have at all, I'm not.
I don't want to pathologize anyof it, but there is something
that you're speaking to aboutthe reclaiming our humanity.
There's an a humanness in this.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So one of the like, the repeating things I see on
these profiles of these you know, potential suitors of los
angeles you must swipe yas, youcannot swipe nas is.
Generally it goes like this I'mtotally paraphrasing I'm
looking for something casual, afriends with benefits situation
would be great.
No one night stands, so that'stoo casual.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You will let me cling to those lies.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
But if it leads to something more, I'm open.
So, and I've like observed thisand I think, like there's a
conflict and a tension just inour culture alone around being
casual, that I've had to come tothe realization that I am not a
casual person.
I experience life veryintensely when I have to be
(12:52):
casual.
Some things are of noimportance to me, so then I'm
like, yeah, whatever, and thatmight appear as casual.
That's not what I think casualmeans.
But when I have to enter into asituation where I have to
appear casual, I can feel thepart of myself that I'm pushing
down in order to swim in thosewaters.
And the more that I do thisstuff, the more dating and like
(13:16):
working with clients and gettingto know people and being in
psychology, the more I reallybelieve that, no matter what
someone tells me, no one iscasual.
Everyone has been deeply, deeplyhurt at some point in their
lives and they learned how toscab that wound physically,
(13:45):
emotionally, all the ways.
And now our culture has put ahigh price on being casual.
That didn't really affect me,I'm not really hurt, it's fine,
it's chill.
Oh, you stood me up, youghosted me, you blocked me, you
like unmatched with me on my wayto the date.
That's cool, man, that's chill.
It's not chill and I know thatit hurts everyone, but so, like
I'm interested in like one, howdo we make it okay to be hurt?
(14:08):
And two, how do we like arriveat like the courage of dialogue,
or like the courage ofcommunication, where we can be
like let's talk about can wetalk about the hurt?
Or like what happened?
Or like what do you need?
Again back to the unmet needs,but like dating happened, or
like what do you need?
Again back to the unmet needs,but like dating is also like
just in and of itself, an arenathat is so charged with emotion.
(14:31):
Like I have so many friendsthat when they go onto an app
and they're looking at basicallyan avatar of a human and
they're thinking in their mindsand I've clients do this too Is
this a potential partner forlife?
And I'm like, bro, that's theopposite of casual.
That is so intense you don'teven know.
Like, does a person put thetoilet seat down or not?
(14:54):
Like you don't even know.
Like are they going tocontribute to like the bills?
Like you like so.
So there's like this conflictof like and this is like the
nature of how colonialismgoverns us is like there's a
norm, a normative society thatwe want to participate and have
success in, and then there's theundercommons, where we actually
(15:14):
exist and where our hurt livesand where our inner monologue is
where we're eating pizza in bed.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
We don't tell anyone and like I really want to like
make the undercommons okay asmuch as I love being here in the
desert, it does take a toll onmy skin and my hair so dry, so
(15:40):
very dry.
But luckily there's my budsover at Wonder Valley.
What started out as an oliveoil company is now an oasis for
some of the most restorativeskin care and hair care.
And whatever happens with theinsides when I drink the olive
oil that care, my favorite isthe Wonder Valley shampoo and
conditioner.
It has taken me from desertwitch tumbleweed hair to my
(16:05):
husband calls it pony hair.
It's healthy, it's shiny, it'sinches longer than it used to be
.
People literally stop me to talkabout my hair.
So if your skin or hair coulduse a refresh or whatever you
want to do with that bottle ofolive oil, you know you can
always chug it.
People do that.
It's a thing.
Go to the link in the shownotes to get started and use the
(16:26):
code CRYBABY all caps for 15%off.
Yeah, yeah, like the, I thinkof it like the Shadowlands,
where it's just the things thatwe feel we have to push down and
that we have to hide.
And I love what you said aboutno one is actually casual.
You know.
Part of what you're saying toois the system, the dating system
(16:50):
, the dating paradigm as it'sdeveloped.
It's like how well can youperform casualness?
How well can you performambivalence?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I've just sucked one year of your life away.
There's the possibility thatmodern dating is teaching us, is
grading us, on how well we canfeign ambivalence like lack of
care, and what we need is morecare, more humanity, not less of
(17:23):
it.
To me, that's what I'minterested in when I think about
rebellion.
How do we?
How do we do it with morehumanity and not and not less,
and not just like relying on thephotos to represent us or a
couple of sentences, or how wellwe have our initial chat game,
or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, what I hear when you're talking is like,
even like the notion ofrebellion is like there's a
subject object split, there's asplit between me and the thing
I'm rebelling against, there's adivide there, and so like that
in and of itself is reproducinglike modernist notions of
(18:03):
individualism.
So and sometimes we don't feellike we have a choice, it
doesn't feel right to justabandon my vision for like what
a just world looks like and likebecome like a Trump supporter.
That doesn't.
I'm not going to capitulate,I'm not going to surrender to
(18:24):
when I think, when I believethere's injustice happening, but
but I'm also like constantlylooking for where is the thing
I'm resisting, reproducing theobject object split, and one of
those ways that we're constantlyreproducing it is by being
afraid of risk.
Risk what risk?
(18:46):
So like dating is an inherently.
I'm using dating not as likenot to tell anyone about dating,
but like it's the, it's thearena that I'm doing my research
in right now.
It's like the place where I amlike exploring.
It could equally be a jobmarket.
It could be like, oh, I'mstarting a family or I'm moving
(19:07):
to a new city, but right now,for me, dating is the thing
that's up, and it has such richexamples of how humans show
themselves and hide themselves.
But like risk comes from notall risk, but a lot of the risk
in like you know, we've talkedabout like like there being no
safe spaces, and when we, whenwe think of safety as like a
(19:30):
place where we can prevent harmfrom happening, there is nowhere
on the planet where you canprevent harm from happening,
including dating, including what?
Especially in dating like you,in relationships, relationships
are inherently risky.
They're inherently riskybecause there's an external
factor of another person andthey're going to affect you.
And I just think about a lotabout like it's easy for me to
(19:53):
care for other people when Ifeel safe with risk, because
there's nothing that anotherperson can actually do to
destroy me, even if they dotheir worst, even if they're
like toxic, just the worst.
I'm indestructible.
And so I can go into riskysituations and I can actually
(20:17):
like fall in love with the devil.
I can like I don't want to marrythat person, or like live in my
house and like whatever, emptymy savings or whatever, but like
I can find, when I see peoplethrough this unmet needs land.
I'm like, oh, of course you'redoing that.
That's the way you're meetingyour unmet needs.
That's the strategy that you'velearned from childhood, that
(20:40):
you, of course that's how you'redoing it.
I can find charm there, but,because I know myself, there's
like a one, a monogamous chargewith dating that, even if you're
exploring other lifestyles orwhatever, there's still this
resistance or rebellion tomonogamy, and monogamy is
crafted under under colonialism,so like, if it's this, then
(21:03):
it's this.
If I find them charming, then Imust love them, and if I love
them, I must marry them and beattached to them forever and we
can walk around the world lovingeverything and not being
attached to anything if we want.
Like to me, it's not risky tofall in love, but I know a lot
of people who have beenheartbroken find it it
incredibly risky, like I have amom who got divorced in 1986 and
(21:26):
then never got another partner.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
There's so much here in terms of risk which I want to
come back to.
But the idea, too, of everyonehas their own relationships to
love and care and because theyhave their own relationships to
it, they have their own beliefsabout it.
Right, they have their ownpatterns around it and it's
usually, you know, it's handeddown from all, all angles
(21:51):
culture and our ancestry and ourfamily and parallel lives, and
there's the idea that people aregoing in and like it's like
they're bringing that, like thatshadow lands with them, the
undergarments, they're all theirstuff.
Yes, maybe everywhere is, youknow, it has a level of risk,
but inside of intimaterelationships it's like
(22:12):
relationships will stagnate ifthere's no risk.
I'm so bored and all of us havehad some experience of that and
it can be too risky.
It's too scary for me becauseof what's happened to me before
and where there's like a levelof connection that is sort of
(22:43):
reached and then stagnated.
And what I'm hearing from you is, you know, using this research
field to continuously playinside of humanness and risk and
connection and care and love.
But like with that, you know,when you say like I'm
indestructible, like no one canharm me, really Like, can you
(23:08):
talk more about that, cause Iknow where that comes from.
But that is not what a lot ofpeople carry with them.
They're moving.
At any moment, consciously orunconsciously, they could be
taken apart, taken down to thestuds, and that's fucking
terrifying.
And so they can't be in thenaive rebellion, they can't be
(23:29):
in this experiment that you'retalking about with surrendering
to humanity, surrendering tocare and having that courage to
communicate at a level ofhonesty, even if nothing comes
from it other than that oneconversation yeah, I'm
indestructible really comes frommy spiritual practice in the
(23:51):
Akashic records or the Akashaand really coming to an
understanding which, for peoplethat don't know, is like a new
age kind of spiritual it's.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's a, it's an old thing, it's a very.
The way I've learned it is very, very much through the new age
lens, which has a lot of issueswith it, but one of the things
that I've come to understand isthat I and every being is an
iteration or or belongs to agreater soul.
That and that soul is adimension of consciousness or
(24:23):
whatever you an energy, whateveryou want to call it it's.
It's an energy of, of agency,and it has no beginning and no
end, so it's eternal.
So, because I come from thiseternal thing, there's something
about me now that is eternal.
Not my human body Clearly, humanbodies are not eternal, they
die and decompose but somethingelse about me is eternal and so
(24:49):
if I, even if it's like just adiluted story that I want to
hold about myself, I've broughtthat now into my psyche and into
my awareness so that I knowthat, like I know that like I
can go into like scarysituations, I can go into like
(25:10):
physically scary situations,like I can cross the street and
a car could actually strike medead, and there's a part of me
that will never die, and so,like, what could kill me in a
dating app, then Do you have asecond to eat my farts.
There's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing.
(25:30):
That doesn't mean that I don'tget hurt or disappointed or have
all of those emotionalresponses that we're conditioned
to have in response torelationships.
Disappointment will notdevastate me, and I think, like
disappointment is a really big.
It can be a huge trauma and wedon't because we're so hell bent
(25:55):
on being casual.
Like what disappointment reallyis is when you expect reality
to be a certain way, and thenit's not a new definition of
pain and suffering.
And it can be as small as Iwent to the store to buy this
thing, but they ran out.
I'm disappointed.
But it could be as big as Ithought my dad would be present
for my childhood and he was not.
(26:16):
Or I thought this person was apart of my life, but my grandpa
died when I was a kid and thenreality was different.
Those are all forms ofdisappointment.
Some are so cataclysmic thatthey shift our sense of reality,
and then we have trauma aroundit.
But we use the worddisappointment as if it's casual
(26:37):
, like, oh, you're justdisappointed.
Grow up Like, yeah, life isfull of disappointment.
I hate that.
I hate that.
So it isn't to say that like Idon't experience disappointment
or reality being different thanwhat I thought it was.
But like it's not going to killme, it's not going to kill any
of us, but you have to look atthe story of yourself that
actually believes that.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And I'm hearing from you all of these little ways in
which you're taking the thingsthat are sort of like in the
shadow lands, in the undercommons, in the unconscious oh
yeah, right, I've got to becasual, so I can't really have
such a big heart here oh, I haveto.
Something hurt me and so I feellike really just kind of pretend
like that didn't hurt me onlike even a profoundly deep
(27:25):
level, because it reminded me ofsomething about my, my
childhood.
If all our energy is going intopushing down and trying to
perform casualness, normalcy,desirability and this like
really small, small little lensthat we've been taught, what
we're missing out on is theability to actually be in
(27:46):
relationship in a deeper way,which, in dating, is why y'all
are there in the first place.
We go out to be with otherpeople is to like be seen, to be
heard, to be understood,whether we know that that's a
desire or not.
We're trying to like have thoseneeds met and I guess I'm
looking at it like in the way,like this lens, of disrupting
(28:10):
the narrative, because that'snot what you've learned through
recognizing your eternalness.
There's, there's somethingyou're unwilling to give up and
sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, you know, as you you're talking, I'm like
thinking a lot about howrebellion and resistance are
totally different and they canoverlap, but they're like very
different and like one of thethings that gave me the most
fear about embarking on datingafter being in a relationship
for 18 years was like peoplewill find me disgusting because
(28:41):
like my whole background withdisgust and all that stuff.
But, um, if I pretend I'm notdisgusting or pretend that I
don't have a fear of that and Ijust perform normal and perform
dating, perform normal dating,perform girl dating, whatever
that performance is, I'm stillresisting it to such a painful
(29:06):
degree I'm resisting.
That disgust is in the back ofmy mind like whispering at me.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
What you resist persists.
That's Carl Jung.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yes, but when I just am like, yeah, I'm fucking
disgusting.
And then there's the wholenarrative of like disgust
doesn't really exist, we can atleast go down that argument.
But that's not the point.
The point is that, like now,I'm actually rebelling against
disgust because I've acceptedthat that's what it is and it's
not going to like quiet anymore.
Yeah, again, dating has beensuch a crazy projection screen
(29:36):
upon which I'm projecting andseeing all the ways that I am a
person I don't know, all theways that I have evolved and the
ways that I think of myself,and, yeah, it's wild energetic
(30:13):
grounding is the age-oldcornerstone of countless
spiritual and magical practices.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
For me, grounding has been one of the most important
and nourishing practices of myadult life.
It's how I tend to my nervoussystem.
It's how I call my attentionand my energy back to myself.
When it's scattered, when I'min the swirl, it helps me
(30:40):
connect to myself and thosearound me that I care about,
because it helps me practicestaying, practice presence,
practice tenderness, even whenthe world around me doesn't seem
to have a whole lot of any ofthose things.
It's even more important than Ido that we do.
(31:01):
It's even more important than Ido that we do.
So go get your free groundingguided meditation, the link in
the show notes, have me in yourear, use it whenever you wish.
We could all use some slow downmedicine right about now.
(31:24):
You talked earlier about whenyou've risked.
I mean, since you're in sort ofconsistent risk, right and like
and been and been hurt or been.
I know you explained the partabout like.
No one can really hurt youbecause you are eternal, but
also because you know thatyou're in the experiment that's
going to ping all of the thingsright like you have.
(31:45):
You have your undergarments,you've got your labrea tar pits
right, like we all do yeah,we're human.
That's our human part.
For anyone who's listening andbeing, I'm dating, I'm an
eternal being.
I want, to like, get on thisrisk train and be open up and
naively rebel in these morehonest conversations wherever
(32:05):
they go, being unattached to theoutcomes.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
How are you with those moments that do ping your?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, the hurty ones.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
The hurty pings.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, the first hurty ping was leaving an 18-year
relationship.
An 18-year relationship thatwas fine and could have just
kept going.
You know, it wasn't like I was.
There was no abuse, there wasno like event.
I mean, there was an event thattold me it was time to go, but
there wasn't an event that was.
There was nothing in therelationship that was really bad
.
It just was not the right placefor me.
(32:38):
And so leaving that was likevery hurty and but such a pain,
such a like no, you got to go.
This is it.
This is it.
It's loud.
And then I observe in with mystudents, like in my, my Akashic
mentorship.
One of the things that we do alot is invoke this observer
perspective, where you'reobserving yourself and there's
(33:05):
something about the distancebetween observing yourself and
being in your physical body,where you can like see a bigger
picture, you can take yourselfout of the intensity of your
emotions, because emotions mightlimit what options you make
available to yourself if, ifyou're really angry or you're
really hurt or whatever, youmight not see what other options
are available to you, and solike just becoming a constant
observer of myself, which is notthe same thing as bypassing my
(33:29):
body or being out of my body.
It's not that at all.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
It's.
It's like being able to observe, like, oh wow, this is really
bad.
I was really dissociated andhurt for the first two weeks of
this.
But you know what I noticed onthat 15th day, that I started to
come around a little bit more.
Or I noticed I, you know, I Imoved into my own apartment and
I was living.
I'm living here for the firsttime on my own in 44 years.
(33:55):
I've never had my own place andI don't like it.
And the first couple months Iwas like I hate to be here.
I'd always work at a coffeeshop.
I just don't like it.
It's too quiet, it's toounalive.
And then I noticed, like onthat seventh month, that I was
coming home from a grocery storeand I was excited to get home
like, oh, that's different.
So, like I observe, I use theobserver perspective on myself
(34:19):
to constantly be looking at howam I evolving through the hurt?
That's really key for me.
Yeah, I will say, like, thefirst time that a person ghosted
me it's happened now twice, I'mgonna say two and a half times,
because the third time was likea soft ghost baby ghost or
ghost baby or something inbetween the ghost baby spectrum
(34:39):
because, like, if I texted thatperson right now they'd be gone.
But but the first time I hadbeen talking to this person and
it was like kind of a long timeof talking, like a month or two
or something, and to me thatfeels like too long to
proliferate through text,because there's so much you miss
in communication when text youneed to meet someone face to
(35:01):
face.
But anyway, we made a date tomeet and before we could ever
meet he ghosted me and I was sosad, but I knew instantly that
this isn't even about me,because he didn't even get to
meet me.
So like, if I'm looking at thisas a researcher, so like, if
(35:26):
I'm looking at this as aresearcher, he doesn't even have
evidence, like real physicalevidence, upon which to base his
decision to ghost.
Therefore, this must be ahundred percent about him.
So having that kind ofresearcher perspective helped me
.
But then I was like well, you'restill hurt.
Even though you know this isabout him, you're still hurt.
And so, observing myself, I sawmyself as like yeah, because,
little girl, you was left behinda bunch of times, so what's up
(35:49):
for you right now isn't evenabout this person, it's that
this event touched somethingvery old and deep, that you like
some original hurts that youbuilt walls for and you've built
coping strategies for and youwent, you know, open heart, into
this situation and so that'swhat's hurt right now.
And so being able to likeclearly parse out okay, it's not
(36:12):
the guy, it's clearly not me,oh, this is an old wound, and I
know strategies for working withold wounds because that's the
work I do, and I know noteveryone has those strategies
but, like for me, being able toclearly see what part is hurt,
what am I conflating?
What am I separating?
What am I parsing?
What am I confusing?
(36:32):
Am I confused?
Can I just sit on this?
Do I have to like fix it rightaway?
Can it just hurt for a while?
Can I get distracted?
Can I dissociate?
Can I go do something else?
Can I go have a drink?
Can I like pretend it's not?
Can I bypass it right now?
Cause that's a good strategy?
Like I just look at all thethings that I have available to
(36:52):
me and sometimes I can't get toit.
Sometimes I'm like well, thisis a puzzler.
I do feel I do.
I am taking this one personally, yeah.
Do I am taking this onepersonally?
Yeah, and, and that's okay too.
But then the other thing aboutobserving myself that I've
noticed is that like I have areally pretty good bounce back
window, can't keep a good holddown, so like within about two
(37:15):
weeks I'm like that sucks on tothe next guy thing, whatever.
So for me my bounce back isshort.
For other people it may not beshort, it may be long.
It may it may be long.
For my mom it's been like 50years.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But right just a big orbit.
So yeah.
I mean, I really appreciate, youknow, that observer work.
I call it like the warmobserver, the compassionate
observation, like the two-parter, where you create that little
work.
I call it like the warmobserver, the compassionate
observation, like the two-parter, where you create that little
bit of space to observe yourself, observe the patterns.
And it's great to do that workoutside of the trigger, right,
(37:53):
because then when you aretriggered and it is happening
and it is activated yeah, youhave a little muscle memory.
Oh right, I know how to look atthis.
Here are my, my strategies thatI turn to that are old ones,
okay, and having some compassionfor when we do that, because we
just will sometimes.
Or here are the new strategiesthat I've been working on and,
oh right, here's the deeperplace that it comes from, here's
(38:14):
the voice that says this,here's the part that's holding
it into place here and that Ifeel like part of what you're
saying is the benefit of doingdeeper inner work.
When we're going out to be inwhether it's relationship, on
dating apps or people at work orfriends, community you move to
a new place, you go to a new job.
It's kind of all the same thing.
Our inner work, ourinterpersonal work has a place
(38:36):
in the web, has a place insupporting us in being in
connection with other people,because when we know ourselves,
that also gives us theopportunity to be a little
riskier.
We understand our own risktolerance and like we understand
that, like, okay, this couldhurt, that could happen, or
something amazing could happenor something I can't even see
(38:56):
from here could happen.
But as we have that deeperconnection with ourselves and
there's a commitment to that,then the like, commitment to
engage with other people becomessomething that helps us
becoming more ourselves.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that part about what parts about me and what
parts not about me, like, oh,this person did this thing and
to understand, oh right, that'snot mine, that's theirs.
Oh, but what part is mine?
Oh, there is some part.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, that's not mine .
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I'm telling you, baby , that's not mine, right, and
sometimes there will be andsometimes there won't be.
So I really I appreciate that alot.
Those are things that I thinktake time and practice Totally
and like we're worth thepractice too If you're out there
in the world wanting topotentially build something with
(39:43):
other people one person, lotsof people, whatever we're worth
the commitment to like, knowourselves and understand our own
sticky pain points and the waythat you do it, like in the
Akashic work right or in livingsystems, and I'll put all that
(40:04):
info down at the bottom sopeople can find you.
But all of that is aboutrelationship.
All of that work is about howto be in relationship you know
we do it in community and thenalso about ourselves, and then
the seen and unseen.
There's a richness to it youletting it be this experiment in
(40:24):
living Like you're not how do Ifeel?
How do I show up?
Oh my God, I did this thing, Idid that thing, that person did
this thing, that person did thatthing.
That's how I responded.
Oh wow, like I thought I wasgoing to be this way and now I'm
this way.
And that initial risk I don'tthink should be undersold at all
of like you leaving an 18 yearrelationship as a jumping off
(40:47):
point and you knowing yeah, yeah, right, you knowing that it was
time to go, like you werelistening and I think there are
probably a lot of people outthere that feel that push and
feel that call and are so scaredto leave the like, stability
and the known.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
It could be anything too.
It could be like leaving a job,moving to a new place, leaving
a marriage, changing yourrelationship with your family,
ending a friendship with someone.
Like it could be any big changethat you thought was just.
This is my reality.
I have no power here.
It's so scary, but I don't havethe words to express like how
(41:27):
much more important satisfactionis than happiness.
Yeah, like being satisfied.
I wrote about this in thisnewsletter I just wrote recently
.
But like and I didn't even thinkabout it until I wrote this
newsletter but like satisfactionis so boring, like the concept.
It's such a like boring.
Like like if you do a survey,it's like you know how satisfied
(41:51):
are you and you're measuring it.
Or like what's 10 is totallysatisfied, zero is not satisfied
at all, and it's like satisfiedis like what?
Like my mom is content with hermashed potatoes at the
restaurant.
Like, like that's not whatsatisfaction is it?
What?
Like my mom is content with hermashed potatoes at the
restaurant.
Like, like that's not whatsatisfaction is.
It's like satisfaction isactually to me more akin to
abundance, if we think ofabundance the way Bashar frames
(42:13):
it, which is to have exactlywhat you need when you need it.
Like satisfaction is exactlythe round peg going into the
round hole.
Like it's exactly the round peggoing into the round hole, like
it's exactly the right fit,it's exactly the right thing.
And I think, like often wedon't reach for that.
We reach for the thing that thestory in our head tells us we
will be happy with, yeah, andthen we make ourselves happy
(42:37):
around the thing instead of,like, reaching for satisfaction
which is like, oh, this is, thisis life, customized for me,
this is the way I want it.
Yeah, when you follow resonance, when you follow just the yes
and stay away from the nose,you're taken to a, to a place of
(42:57):
satisfaction that you couldn'teven dream of, because you don't
even know yourself that well.
You've been over here aimingfor happiness and success the
way it's been taught to youquota satisfied, like you might
not even know what's resonant.
I was talking to my friend lastnight about dating.
He's single too, and we weretalking about, like how do you
(43:18):
approach when you're looking atan app?
And he's like I look at someoneand I wonder could I be happy
with this person?
And and he's like I look atsomeone and I wonder could I be
happy with this person and I waslike that's insane.
I look at a person and I don'teven have cognitive language.
I'm like is it a yes or no?
And that's it Matching with aperson or a job, or a phenomenon
, or an idea or a project orwhatever.
(43:40):
I really think that for everyone, or whatever there, I really
think that for everyone, thereis a precognitive offering of
like is it resonant, is it a yesor no?
And we're so taught to like,ignore that that we have to go
into the intellect.
Is it valid?
Is it going to make sense to dothis?
Is it worth my time?
Is it going to lead to success?
What are the outcomes?
Is the work input worth theoutput?
(44:01):
Like, we go straight into thatand when we do that with
relationships and then we missmeeting cool people that are
resonant to us.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, I mean this comes up a lot in my practice
with folks where we're talkingabout vision, specifically
inside of relationships, and ifthe person is in a relationship,
we have to suspend the personthey're in relationship with and
actually and take them out ofthe equation, because so often
they'll think about, like, well,what they want in relationship
to that person and what theythink that person will give them
(44:33):
.
Yeah, we move through the worldof being like, well, what could
the world give me, what might Ibe able to get?
And we like shape our desiresaround that, and so much of that
is like perception andconditioning and fear and old
pain and Ooh, I can maybe get alittle bit of this, I can maybe
get a little bit of that.
And so then we're like well,that's what I want, I just want
(44:54):
a little bit of that.
That's not aliveness, right,that's like existence, which is
different.
It's like that's not that deepsatisfaction, and I think you're
right.
Like so, many of us don't knowwhat that is because we've not
been taught to seek it, to knowit to feel it because it
requires that resonance,requires like a level of, like
(45:16):
self-trust Right.
And if we trust ourselves, thenwe would know how to trust each
other and be like oh, yourexperience is real too, Just as
real as mine.
You get into likepluriversality here, where the
many worlds I I know how to likeask, listen, trust and act from
that deep knowing place.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
And we would be terrible fucking consumers.
We were knowing how to meet ourown needs even if we didn't
need other things around us,right like we wouldn't be as
susceptible to to just likegrabbing hungry in these other
ways.
And that's what I also feel isthat subtle subversiveness of
(45:56):
like where we're putting ourattention.
Resonance requires attention.
It requires a practice of likesubtle attention.
Yeah, you have to know how tolisten, but it's a practice, you
don't have to know it, right?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
off the bat.
That's exactly what I wrote inthat newsletter about like
listening to our own resonanceis actually subverting the
state's agenda for us.
That designs us to be consumers, and like we're not designed to
be like engaged in civics.
We're not designed to like takethe responsibility of, like
(46:28):
civic order.
We're not citizens here.
We're designed to be consumers.
That's how we participate ingovernment and culture and
society is through consumption,and so, in order for us to be
good consumers, we have to betaught that that's what we are
from the day that we're born,and everything revolves around a
consumption mindset.
(46:50):
So, like, you have a grade pointaverage.
You look at how many friendsyou have on Instagram, how many
likes did you get, how muchmoney do you have?
You're constantly quantifyingyour value here, and so, like
resonance is unquantifiable andit's momentary, so it happens in
the moment of being presentedwith something.
There is no planning for it.
(47:12):
What's resonant to one personmay not be resonant to another.
It's so like circumstantial,that like it's unpredictable,
and it it like satisfaction islike going to Trump consumerism
yeah, it's just going to.
And so, like satisfactionactually is, while it feels
(47:34):
really good, I think it feelsbetter than happiness, whatever
that even is, it also isincredibly radical and
rebellious too is.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It also is incredibly radical and rebellious too.
Yeah, I think you're.
You're right.
I mean, I know you are, atleast from my heart, you know of
.
I feel like all of what we'vebeen talking about here, too, is
how to not consume each other,how to not just like chew, chew,
eat, gobble each other up, cheweach other up and like spit
each other out, as we'redesigned to do.
Yeah, yeah, right, and like howwe're disorienting from that
(48:10):
the possibility, because we cando that.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And like orient towards another way of being
with each other A resonant way.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, the resonant way.
Yeah, I love that.
I love you.
Love that.
Yeah, this is so fun.
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
This is really fun yeah, thank you friend, I really
appreciate this.
Yeah, thanks for having me Ilove it always All right, you
(48:51):
made it here to the end of theepisode, so you get a cookie,
and the cookie is an invitationto join Living Systems cohort
four.
Living Systems is an experiment, a project, a party, a ceremony
, a defection, a perspective, anecology of curiosity and
(49:11):
belonging.
It's a place in community tomake new stories about the
worlds that we live in and theones that we want to bring into
being.
Living Systems is an immersive,year-long program designed to
take you on a journey ofexploration and transformation
beyond the isolation of colonialreality.
(49:35):
I have been a part of LivingSystems as a guest teacher and a
student for all three yearsthat it's been in existence and
I have met some of my favoritehumans, and more than humans,
through this work.
So if you've been yearning tocommit to collective growth, to
(49:57):
transformative learning, toconnecting with other deeply
curious people and to be a partof undoing the legacy of
colonialism and choose to upholdthe right to the dignity of
life on earth, this is the place.
Living Systems is your space.
Go to wearelivingsystemscom.
(50:17):
I'll put the link in the shownotes.
You can reach out to me and askme any questions that you might
have on Insta.
I'm Dana Blix.
You can absolutely.
Dm me.
You can email me, dana atdanablickycom.
And then Leah and I are going tobe leading a weekend workshop,
(50:38):
retreat, immersive experience inSeptember out in my neck of the
woods, joshua Tree, california.
Save the date.
This will be the weekend ofSeptember 20th and 21st.
We'll have more info up aboutit soon.
There's a link in the shownotes if you want to get on the
list.
No big deal Two transformativeexperiences waiting for you to
(51:01):
say yes, thanks for tuning in,thanks for being such an
impeccable crybaby.
May you go be a menace.
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a doubt, that you belong hereand we belong to each other.
(51:57):
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Speaker 2 (52:05):
Five stars.
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Subscribing, rating andreviewing are amazing and they
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