May 28, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of CULINARY MECHANIC, Simon Zatyrka welcomes Luca—a seasoned front-of-house professional with roots in Italy and a career forged in the heat of both European and American restaurants. What begins as a story of necessity (a broke college student in Milan needing date money) evolves into a decades-long pursuit of true hospitality mastery.
Luca shares raw, funny, and insightful stories from the floor: from navigating rude guests and chaotic services to building genuine guest loyalty and understanding the invisible tension between the front and back of house. This conversation dives into ego, burnout, tip pooling, leadership, and why—more than ever—human connection is the ultimate skill in hospitality.
Whether you’re a chef, GM, or line-level server, this is a must-listen episode for anyone serious about creating not just great food—but great experiences.
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00:00] Introduction
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[02:00] How Luca entered the restaurant world during Italy’s currency crisis
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[05:30] San Diego dreams and lessons from early restaurant mentors
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[09:45] Chaos, composure, and the art of service under pressure
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[13:30] Front-of-house and back-of-house dynamics
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[18:15] Why Luca respects cooks (and never yells)
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[22:00] The tip pooling dilemma: fairness vs. individual performance
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[26:00] Hiring for desire, not just skill
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[28:00] Burnout, performance limits, and work-life recalibration
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[30:00] America’s food quality problem (from an Italian perspective)
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[31:00] AI, automation, and the future of the server
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[34:00] Hospitality as love, legacy, and life purpose
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[39:00] Luca’s networking events and transition plans
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[41:00] Wrap-up
Key Quotes
“You can only people so hard for so long.” — Luca
“I treat the place like it’s mine. If your food is bad, I won’t serve it. Period.” — Luca
“The restaurant is the last place where Americans get to feel in charge. That comes with consequences.” — Luca
“Burnout is real. But your mental health? You don’t get that back.” — Luca
Key Takeaways
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The best servers create loyalty not just through speed, but through emotional presence.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
. Luca (00:31):
So you wanna know how I started in the restaurant business?
So I started in the restaurantbusiness from, uh, necessity
because I was in college.
So I was in Milan having mybeautiful five years of college.
Uh, this was, uh, in 98 I started, butI don't know if you remember, if 2002
(00:55):
we switched from Lira to the Europe.
Yeah, we had in Europe, we had the, themoney that changed and we all get this
unique currency that between me andyou, fucked us a up because basically
what happened the next day, the pricesare doubled, everything cost twice
(01:16):
as much, but magically you are stillgetting the same money as you did before.
Simon (01:21):
Yeah.
Luca (01:22):
So me.
I'm like, okay, what do I do?
I, my parents are like, no, no study.
You focus on study.
But I'm like, mom, I need to beable to take someone out for dinner.
So I found this job at this, uh.
It was called Lala.
You know what clete is?
It's a French, yeah, the cheese.
Simon (01:40):
The great.
The cheese.
Luca (01:42):
And at the time we are in Italy, so you are allowed to smoke inside.
So you can only imagine thesmell of this restaurant where
people, you know, patterns.
Were smoking inside and youhave this wheels of cheese ette.
And my shift used to startat 6:00 PM to peel potatoes.
For two hours.
(02:02):
All I did was peeling potatoes
and I went up until 2:00 AM
so I did that.
I graduated, obviously couldn't find ajob, and I'm like, okay, let's go back.
It's summertime.
I found a job, a summerjob in my hometown.
Now the guy that owned the place happenedto have lived five years in San Diego,
(02:25):
so he planted the city in my head, he'slike, you should go to this in America.
You're gonna make a ton of money.
You're gonna love it,you're gonna be happy.
So when he told me the moneythat I was gonna make, I'm
like, Hey, you're shiting me.
Like there's no way, youknow, in this business.
'cause in Italy, remember it'sa very different, uh, right.
The front of the house is a verydifferent, very different thing.
(02:46):
Um, but that I am, I, I got to SanDiego, long story short, and I found,
uh, this place where I actually wasable to find a former waiter who
worked his ass off, put Swan aside,and then he open the restaurant itself.
So he told me, listen, if you're good,you could take the whole restaurant.
And I was good.
(03:06):
I was fast.
So my grandma still thinks I'vebeen in porn all of these years.
She doesn't believe that allthe money come That's amazing.
Come from the restaurant.
Yeah.
So that's, that's kinda how I started.
And I got to the point where,so I'm a really people person.
Like, I literally find joy, like talkingto people, like I'm having a great
(03:28):
time right now just by talking to you.
Like I, excellent.
I'm the kind of guy like,get me around people.
I'm fine, but by overdoing the frontof the house in a restaurant, I got
to the point where, oh shit, now Idon't want, I don't wanna deal with
people for like half an hour now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In my opinion, this is restaurant work,all kinds front back of the house.
(03:54):
I think that it helps you developso many skills that you cannot.
Learn in schools in such a shorttime, uh, patience, acting.
You are having a bad day, youstill gotta put on a smile
and, and entertain your guest.
You are a psychologist, you know,bartender, we keep, I always tell people,
(04:17):
oh, you got curtains in the closet.
I'm like, honey, I know thesize of the closet and the whole
layout of the closet of people.
Like if I were to write a book oneday, it'll be there under pressure.
Hey, you, you're talking tosomeone, you turn around and
you got five people coming in.
Then you hear the bellof the food station.
(04:40):
Four runner is nowhere to be found.
What do you do first?
You gotta think fast.
So it's a, it is a beautiful chaos wherehuman interaction gets to a point where.
You can.
It's a, it's a, it's a setting whereyou can take things personally and
(05:01):
you really absolutely have to learn.
Absolutely.
It's kind of like a soccer game, man.
I hit you in the head.
I, I tell you to fuck offat the end of the match.
I hug you because it's done.
We.
Simon (05:12):
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, uh, you, you hit on somethingthat is really, really close to my
heart, and that is like the abilityto be strong and calm under pressure.
You know?
I think that.
Uh, clearly you're thefront of the house guy.
I'm definitely the back of house guy.
Um, and I've, I've always respected thewaiters that, that I know that they've
(05:36):
got like 10, 12 tables and they'rejust, they're juggling all the balls
and up in the air and it doesn't matter.
They're able to.
They're able to take a deep breath and,and speak like a human being and get
it, get it all right, and, and smileand create experiences for people.
And in the back of the house.
I, it's really, it's the same, right?
It's different, but it's the same for me.
(05:58):
It's always the goal, especially in thelast probably 15 years, has always been.
Find a way to be in the eyeof the hurricane, right.
Be be in that place where you are able tolook around and there's just a shit storm
swirling around you, but you're able tosee what's happening and focus because I.
(06:20):
For, for me, especially as the leader,if I'm not composed and calm, then
my team is panicking because theycan't figure out why I'm not calm.
And it took me a long time to learnthat, but it's always, it's always great.
I also remember that like I. It'sthe same for you if you are a
little bit like crazy at the table.
Mm-hmm.
People start to get worried.
(06:41):
You get the people going, wait
xx (06:43):
there,
Simon (06:43):
you know, and they, they, they, they want more attention because they're
not sure what's happening instead.
Exactly.
If they get the, the calm collected tourguide, they that is, that is just leading
them down the road to, to fat and happy.
Everything's okay.
Luca (07:00):
But one thing that I have experienced, uh, in the, and, and here,
hear me out here 'cause this is very,like, from the front of the house and,
and it taught me a lot when dealing withthe back of the house because nine times
out of 10 people in the back of the house.
They don't make it, theydon't make the tips.
Okay.
(07:20):
So there's, there's this dynamicbetween back in front of the house.
I always make sure I make friends withall, with all of my back of the house.
I respect them.
I don't yell at themwhen I need something.
I, I try very hard to do that becauseI, myself put myself in their shoes.
Sure.
When you're under pressure, I mightraise my voice any hands like that, but.
(07:45):
I learned never to get in a fightwith the back of the house, first
of all, because the whole chainof command is gonna get to shit.
And, and, and who's gonna payin the end is the customer.
And so, absolutely, and thenyou, me, because I make less
tips, but ultimately the owner.
See, this is also another thing thatI live by, which is I don't think
(08:06):
anybody, not anybody, I don't wannasay anybody, but very few people do.
In my personal experience, I runthe place as if it were mine.
Yeah, I have, I have this sort oflike coin, you know, e emotional
involvement in the place because I'mthe front of the house and I represent
what I'm, so, you know, if you makebad food, I'm not gonna work for you.
(08:30):
I'm not, you know, I, I'm not thekind of guy who's in it for the money.
I am in it for the passionand for, for, for, to me.
The fact that people come back, Luca,you know, they're really happy to see me.
They're really happy.
I give them my experience.
To me, it, it just makes my day, you know?
Simon (08:48):
Yeah.
I mean.
It's interesting.
No matter what anybodysays, food's important.
You know, drinks are important, butthe service, the way that you're
able to make them feel, right?
They, if you, if people walk in andthey, they feel the, the warmth of Luca
coming at them, they're coming back, man.
(09:09):
They're, they're, that's, that'ssomething that's so important to me.
And one of the thingsthat I've tried to teach.
Cooks and and young, younger chefs overthe years is if you treat the very much
like you said, if you treat this likepeople, like you are feeding people in
your home, then yes, you're gonna havesome rough days and things are gonna go to
(09:30):
hell and you're gonna scream and yell fora half a second, but the ability to bring
it back, right, bring it back to center.
Yeah.
And remember that we're all tryingto take care of the guest because,
uh, as you and I said just beforewe were recording, the guest doesn't
give a damn what's, what is happening.
They don't care aboutinterpersonal dynamics.
(09:51):
They don't care about ego.
They want.
Whether it's the steak, the plate ofpasta, the amazing piece of fish, right?
That, that we went to the market todayto get in the vegetables that we peeled
after we got the beets out of the ground.
All that stuff goes to shit.
If we can't get along as human beings,
Luca (10:11):
that that is the very first thing.
And then you get ownersthat don't give a damn.
And because this is the toughestpart, we are a hierarchy base.
Yeah, system.
You got the chef, the sous chef, the,the whatever, the guy that brings
the, the dishwasher brings the,the, the empty uh, the clean pants.
(10:34):
And so the challenge is going beyondthe hierarchy and working as a team.
Yeah.
That is the challenge.
And the challenge is also because,you know, we, they see it.
I, I am, I am one that we shoulddo give tips to the kitchen too.
I. Right.
I am, because we all work for,it's all a service industry.
(10:58):
Sure.
I present the food, but youmake it, so, in my opinion, I'm
gonna be the devil's advocate.
I have a, I had a lot of,
Simon (11:04):
more and more that's happening, you know?
Exactly.
Uh, I, I spent, I spent nine yearswith the company not too long
ago, and somewhere along the wayit became a, a genuine tip pool.
Yeah.
Where with, with, with dedicatedpercentages to the back of the house,
and there were a few, few servers in thefront of the house that threw up their
(11:25):
arms and went running, you know, becausethey weren't gonna, they weren't gonna
make their 1 1, 1 young lady looked atthe manager and said, to hell with you,
uh, if you do this, I'm not gonna be ableto make my, my six figures this year.
And I, and I thought to myself,that's, that's regrettable.
But at the same time.
(11:46):
What about all these folks who are inthe back, who are working two jobs Yeah.
And they're married to somebodywho's also working two jobs to be
able to, to afford to live in thesame space that you, that you are.
Um, you, we have a give and taketo kind of make it work, right?
Luca (12:02):
Yeah.
But I do understand this point of viewbecause lemme tell you my point of view.
I am 90 times, 90% of thetimes against the pooling.
You know why?
I'm sorry.
I, no, nobody's as good as me.
I am good.
So I'm, I don't wanna split the tip withan 18-year-old boy who doesn't have any,
you know, 'cause then I end up doing allthe work for him now that there Yeah.
(12:25):
Yeah.
I mean,
Simon (12:26):
it's a, it's a challenge, right?
Luca (12:27):
It's a challenge.
The, the tip pooling can, it couldbe a hit or miss because the tip
pooling is the ideal situation.
When you have a harmonious team.
When you have a cohesive team,when you have a team where
literally, like, it's not about me.
It's about us.
xx (12:46):
Yes.
Luca (12:47):
That's, that's, it's hard to figure out the human being
because the human being me.
Simon (12:53):
Yeah.
I, I have found that when you startto look at big tip pooled houses, uh,
or restaurants, you, you, you stopattracting the real rock stars, right?
You, you stop attracting the people whoare the most passionate about it because
they're not gonna be able to necessarilymake what they can make in other places.
(13:14):
And so it's you, you get somethingdifferent, but you get consistent, right?
Like, uh, with any luck,those tip pool, those heavily.
Pooled houses also provide the trainingto allow like the average person
to excel just a little bit more.
And I think that that's the theory.
Um, eh, there's, there's no perfectsystem because I know that, I know that
(13:38):
sometimes you, you you're in a placeand it's, you are making your money and
the, the cooks are making their money.
And I feel like hopefully in the, inthe right circumstances, if they're not
making tips in the back of the house.
They're not, they're, they'rebeing compensated well enough that
they're able to focus on the factthat they love what they're doing.
(13:59):
Absolutely right.
And I think that there's, there'sebb and flow to all of that because.
There are times when I can look backand go, I wasn't making a lot of
money, but damn it was I learning.
'cause the chef was amazingand the team was amazing.
And quite frankly, the wine list wasgreat and getting a glass of wine after
(14:20):
work was fucking worth it, you know?
And, and the servers that Iworked with taught me things
about the, taught me things about.
The whole experience.
And so that was worth it to meas I was coming up for a coach.
Absolutely.
And I think that, I guess it'sthat moment of like hopping on the
(14:40):
soapbox and screaming at the youngpeople to say, gather the experience.
It's not just about the ego.
Right.
Like so much.
Absolutely.
So much about cooking nowadaysis I wanna be the chef.
I wanna be the chef.
Yeah.
You don't really wanna be thechef, or if you do, you don't
know what you're asking for.
Right.
Luca (14:59):
Oh, I never wanna be the manager.
I never wanna be the.
Uh, well, I make more moneywith less responsibility.
It's, it's totally, it's a no brainer.
Totally.
Simon (15:09):
Yeah.
Uh, I definitely saw that.
I definitely saw bartenders over the yearswho made way more money than I ever did.
Luca (15:16):
That is a bigger problem in the industry.
The management is notcompensated at the same.
They, they were compet.
Not only that, they competit much less.
Yeah.
So that makes a hugeturnaround of managers.
I see it a lot of, but I also
Simon (15:32):
think that, that it's about, it's about sorting the people.
Like the people have to go where they,there, there are people who are meant
to be leaders and meant to be managers.
Yes,
Luca (15:43):
absolutely.
And who
Simon (15:44):
are they?
Just, and it's not about, like for, forme, it wasn't about the money, did I?
Did I find myself?
Over the years, like, oh wait, Ican make a good deal more money
if I go do this instead of that.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
At one point in my career I said,okay, I can work for a more of a
famous restaurant where there isn'tas much infrastructure there is.
(16:04):
I might not get a vacation andthey're gonna run me ragged, or I
can go work for this company That.
It's corporate, but Istill have some focus.
I still have some, uh, say aroundthe, some of the menu Uhhuh.
Um, but I have two sous chefsand I have a good sized team and
I have some infrastructure andthey want me to take vacation.
(16:25):
So I made that choice,right, so that I, yep.
And I realized this is where I haveto develop, where I have to develop
the desire to be the leader, right?
To really be, be less of the,oh, it's all about the food.
It's.
It's as much about the peopleas it is about the food.
Luca (16:41):
It is, it is.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Simon (16:43):
That was, that for me was the, the big change.
Right.
And I think that, um, my lo verymuch like you, I love people.
I love to be in it.
I love to be talking to people andseeing like what, what makes them tick?
And I mean, I worked for, for thatcompany for five, almost six years.
And one of the things I learned, one ofthe things that changed in me the most.
(17:07):
When I got there, I would hire for skill.
When I left, I was hiring for desire.
Desire.
I was, I was hiring for people who want,quite frankly, they just wanted a job
and they wanted to make money, and theywanted to work as hard as they could
to make as much money as they could.
And so if you taught them.
(17:28):
They would just knock down walls for you.
Right.
And you teach.
And teach and teach.
And they would just, they would justsoak it up and go, is this how you do it?
Is this the best way I can do it?
And yes.
And they would just charge forward.
xx (17:42):
Absolutely.
And that was
Simon (17:42):
like, that was such a different thing after so many
years of being in restaurants.
Luca (17:47):
Yeah.
Simon (17:48):
That way it was all very competitive.
It was all me, me, me, me.
Right.
You
Luca (17:52):
know, skill, skills.
Skills can be taught.
The drive is gotta come from within.
You either have the burning desirein you or you don't, or you don't.
I had, I had to take a break.
My woman had to take me away.
She made me realize onenight we had a fight.
We were in Mexico.
Long story short, we had a fight.
(18:12):
I got drunk and I screamed at her.
Every normal person were like.
Fuck off you idiot.
She was like, okay, what's wrong with you?
And she made me realize that I,I hated, I needed a break from
that environment for a bit.
Yeah.
I took off for a few months and,and now I'm like recharged as ever.
But that it's very important also tonot get burned out, which is something
(18:36):
almost impossible to do in this business.
But, but one thing that I can absolutely.
Tell everybody, don't overdo it.
Like I know the system is usually morehours, more money, but the mental health,
that's something you never get back.
And it also affects, affectsyour performance in a long
time, in the long term.
Simon (18:57):
Yeah.
Luca (18:57):
Especially, you know,
Simon (18:58):
I, yeah, I have a friend and he, he's a consultant and he
talks, he, he's the only person I'veever heard that talks about this.
And he says, you know,workload is a thing.
Like if you, if you try to do toomuch for too long, your ability
to do great work goes down.
(19:20):
And here's where he get, he differs fromeverybody else because he says, you know,
if you look at professional sports, right?
If you look at people who are aimingto get maximum performance out of
whether it's 90 minutes of football,
xx (19:34):
yep.
Simon (19:35):
Or soccer or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah.
Or whatever, or, or 60 minutes, youknow, 60 actual minutes of mm-hmm.
Football or whatever.
That 48 minutes of basketball, they,those sports teams, they monitor workload.
They really, really havea tight grip on Yeah.
How much weightlifting they're doingand how much they're running and,
(19:57):
and how much they're recovering.
Right.
And I think that.
There's, there's gotta be a shift.
There is a shift slowly, but I thinkover time we have to stop and go.
xx (20:08):
Yeah,
Simon (20:08):
wait, what?
How am I performing best?
When am I performing best?
You know, I come from the school of 10,12, 14 hours, but as I've gotten older,
it's like, wait, if I work like 10 hours,nine hours, and I'm really focused and
I'm really organized, I get a ton done.
(20:30):
And then, wait, I've done allmy work and it's nine and a
half hours in and like, oh wait.
Okay.
And so I've been trying to teach peoplerecently, like pay attention to how
you, not just what you have to getdone and, and all those things, uh, but
like when you're able to do them best.
Right.
(20:51):
I, I, like, I don't wanna crusadefor optimal performance in the
restaurant industry instead of just,oh, I have to work 16 hours today.
Yeah.
You know, uh, and I first noticedthis when I started to realize
that like servers like yourself
xx (21:06):
mm-hmm.
Simon (21:07):
After like four hours on the floor, you start, y'all start to go
downhill and, and it's not anybody'sbad or anything like that, but like you,
you can only people so hard for so long.
Yeah.
And I, I remember thinking like,why do, why do servers work
four hours, five hour shifts?
Six, if it's a long day, youknow, it's like Sunday brunch.
(21:29):
Yeah.
We're going for the long day.
Right.
Everybody that's, that's likethe nastiest word in the world.
Oh yeah.
Most, but, but it's like, why, whyare they working five and I'm working.
As a cook, I would work eightor eight and a half or as a,
as a, as a young sous chef.
It was 12, right?
Yeah, of course it was 12.
(21:49):
But wait, why, why is that and how, how?
And then I then I, I had a momentprobably in my early thirties of,
well, maybe I should go be a server.
And then I thought about itagain and I was like, no way.
Like they, they do a thing that
Luca (22:02):
I, let me tell you why the restaurant this, is this coming from
an Italian, okay, this, this might be alittle bit, not everybody probably will
agree with me and I'm probably gonnaraise some eyebrows here, but that's
good, in my opinion or in my, you know.
Witnessing the restaurant is reallythe one of the few places where the
(22:24):
Americans is free to do whatever he wants.
In a sense.
He, he takes delivery and hegets the confidence to say, okay,
yeah, I can do this to my weather.
Like, uh, you know, I have, I'vehad some story of people trying to
get, you know, the impossible outtame just because they want to look
good in front of their friends.
Yeah.
(22:44):
And sometimes disrespect meand then, you know, in those.
In those situation, you can't, you know,you can't put the customer in a bad
situation in front of their friends.
So you have to find a way to not takeit personal, play the game, make it
look good, but there are some situation,you're talking about the ego before,
(23:08):
we have to like literally put theego like 20,000 foot down sometimes,
because there are some people that.
You know, they, they're rude.
They, or they are, you know,they don't have respect for you
or they, or they dis disrespect.
Uh, you always, I always say youlearn a lot about a person from
(23:29):
how they treat a host or a boss.
Absolutely.
You can know a lot aboutthe person from that.
Yeah.
So the, the front of the house has alsoto deal with these things because when
in the back of the house you can tellyour, your sous chef, fuck off, go get
me another, uh, you know, uh, steakin the back because you fuck this up.
(23:51):
I can't say that in front
Simon (23:52):
of the house.
Right.
I think that that expendsa lot of energy, right?
Being able to contain, containwhat, what wants to come out.
No, I, I absolutely agree.
I mean, I think, I think I learned along time ago, like there's a reason
why those shifts are, are shorter.
Like I said, you can onlypeople so much, right?
You can only, you can only interactat that level of, uh, and, and control
(24:15):
the chaos from within, um, for so long.
So,
Luca (24:19):
and plus you have to talk to a lot of people, you know,
to the customer, Hey, what's up?
Oh, chef.
And they ask, sometimes youjust have to be, yeah, sure.
Like, okay, why don't you stopin talking to me, you know?
Simon (24:34):
Um, so tell me.
Tell me about, tell me aboutsome of your favorite moments.
'cause I, I think we, it's really easy totalk about the things that go wrong, but
Luca (24:45):
Yeah.
Simon (24:45):
What, what are your, tell, tell me about the experiences that
you're able to craft for peoplethat, that make you the happiest.
Luca (24:51):
The favorite moments for me is the, the.
The happiness that I give mycustomers when, you know, I've
had people literally follow mearound when I change restaurants.
People that really came not forthe food before the experience that
I was giving them, which UnitedStates is, you can do that in Italy.
(25:16):
They all go for food.
They don't, they don't careabout the service at all.
So I found it fascinating that,that a lot in America sometimes.
People put service over the foodbecause they want to be able
to feel, they wanna feel loved.
I think that they want to feel loved.
They want to feel catered.
They want to feel taken care of, you know?
(25:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's one of those things that, whereasin Italy, we got that in our families,
we get that from birth, so we don'twant, we don't care about that.
We just want food, you know?
But, and it's fa No, it'sfascinating because we are rude.
Italians are the rudest restaurants.
Italians are usually the rudest.
Simon (25:57):
That's interesting.
Luca (25:58):
You know, Spanish, actually Spanish are the rule more than
Italians, but we got a similar quarters.
Simon (26:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can believe that.
You know, I, I, it's interesting whatyou're really speaking to me is, is
the importance of hospitality, right?
The importance of how we treat each other.
Yes.
Um.
And I think that, you know, there's,uh, the, for me, the book that, that
everybody's talking about right nowand has been out for a couple years
is, , unreasonable Hospitality.
(26:25):
And I am, I have
Luca (26:27):
to, I have to get it.
I, uh, you gotta
Simon (26:28):
read it, man.
You gotta read it.
I'll read it.
But you're, you're gonna laughbecause as you go through it, you're
just gonna say, of course, right?
Like, I think that.
You come, you, you have, youunderstand hospitality because
it's, it's deep inside you.
And I think that, yeah.
Oh yeah.
For, for some of us, I don'tknow, maybe it's just, maybe
it's just us fucking Americans.
(26:49):
You know?
I, and I, and I, honestly, I say thatwith a little bit of Jess, but at the same
time it's like, maybe it's just us, butthere's a, there's this moment when you're
like thinking about the things that.
That other person want to, to, to feelyou, you said loved and cared for.
And I think, yeah, I thinkabout make people feel special.
(27:09):
Like take that moment to saylike, this only this is, this
is what is important to you.
You know?
I mean, I wouldn't receive
Luca (27:17):
postcards to the restaurant letters.
They would send a letter fromthe, from, you know, oh my God, my
grandma turned 90, still talks abouther birthday, and you were server.
Like, those things are the thingsthat, that make my day, and this is
why I, I still can get out of thistrap because it makes me happy.
Simon (27:39):
Absolutely.
There, there's an, there's an addictionto the way you're able to make yourself
feel by making others feel great.
For sure.
Luca (27:46):
It's, and it's something that,
Simon (27:48):
it's all day long
Luca (27:49):
inexplicable, but it's, it's the best feeling in the world to me.
To me, when, when you canmake someone else's happy,
you really made a difference.
Like I, I know it sounds cliche, but I.
There's, you know, it'swhat the word is for,
Simon (28:04):
you know, they're called cliches for a reason.
It's because they happen a lot.
Right.
Um, you know, I think that all, all thosethings, they, they come together and
to, to be something that is common, but.
And so we say, oh, that's cliche, but no,that's, there's nothing wrong with that.
(28:24):
Yeah.
You know, I know like, tho those are,those are beautiful things because
they, they, they are evocative of thethings that, that mean something to us.
That's why cliches are cliches.
Luca (28:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But yeah.
Simon (28:36):
Um,
Luca (28:36):
anyway, I believe that in our industry now we face two major
shifts, like something that oneis for the back of the house and
one is for the front of the house.
The front of the house is likewith ai, servers are gonna
be more scarce than ever.
Nobody's gonna be able, everybody's nowon ai, on a computer in 10 years from now.
(29:02):
Talking to people willbe a very scarce skill.
So I think that we are goingthrough, we, we, that's where, you
know, maybe let's open a schoolof waiters or something like that.
That's probably something thatin the future I could see myself
doing in a sense, transition.
Oh man,
Simon (29:21):
sign me up.
I mean, right.
What you're describing is likean existential crisis of, of,
of, of social constructs.
Luca (29:30):
I mean, it all started with social media, but now we are
really at the point where we aska machine to do everything so.
Yeah, we're going into oblivion.
Relationship wise, I have a feeling,
Simon (29:42):
I mean, uh, I don't know how it is where you are, but up
here, minimum wage is so highthat that restaurant owners are.
Many of them of them are choosingnot to use servers anymore.
They're using morecounter service or, yes.
If it's counter service, they're,instead of having two cashiers or
(30:02):
three cashiers, they're having onecashier and one kiosk where you
go and you just, boop, boop, boop.
Yep.
Even you go into McDonald's, right?
You go into McDonald's, and Idon't go there very often, but I,
I had to, I was, I needed to eatsomething and I didn't have my car.
I was waiting for my carto be finished at the shop.
And I go in and I waslike, there's nobody here.
(30:24):
There's just a bunch of screens.
And I was like, okay.
So boom, boom, boom.
And then all of a sudden my foodcomes up and the, the lady says, 91.
And I go, go up.
And she's already gone.
She's not even waiting to give it to me.
It's just sitting on the tray.
That's it.
And I thought, oh, so PEinteraction and the, the interaction
amongst humans is, you're right.
(30:44):
It, it's going.
Yeah.
And it's.
It's not getting better, right?
Like, no.
And I mean, before
Luca (30:50):
we had the excuse of the hustle, we had to get somewhere.
Now we had covid, everybody relaxed.
So where the hell do you gotta go now?
Relax, enjoy, you know, talk.
Say hi.
Yeah, pat on the back, you know,uh, interact as, yeah, you doing
how your kids, everything new youwant, we all like so, so busy.
To get to the next pointthat we really, we.
(31:13):
Can enjoy the present.
Yeah.
That's, that's, I, I don't disagree.
And that's what I loveabout this business.
'cause every all day I'm like, enjoying.
Simon (31:22):
Yeah.
Luca (31:22):
Enjoying.
Simon (31:23):
Uh, I think that as in the last couple years, I've begun
to craft the, begun to reallyhone the, the, the skill of.
Like sitting still.
'cause that's not me, right.
I'm, I'm a go, go, go.
But as I got out of the kitchen, andnow that I do, I, I am able to talk
on, talk on the Zoom and I, and wedo the podcast and all those things.
(31:47):
It's, there's, there's moments inthe day where I'm like, wait, think
I'm gonna sit on my front porchand look at the trees for a minute?
Yeah.
Not for long.
Just for a few minutes.
And then I find that when I amdone doing that, I'm like, huh.
My mind is fresh again, andI'm ready to go back in.
You know?
Um, I don't know.
It's the, it's the, there, there'ssomething very, very valuable about Yeah.
(32:11):
Like the value of not
Luca (32:14):
the value of not.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
That's very true.
Now, the other challenge thatwe're gonna face and then in is
the back of the house has the food.
Is the food not only for the cost.
That's already making restaurants avery non-smart business nowadays, unless
you really, you know, have it together.
(32:37):
But we gotta fix this.
FDA, come on.
In Italy, 75% of the shit fromFDA is prohibited in Italy.
And to me, what scares me is theaccessibility of real food in
the US because right now we arepurchasing, you know, I get afresh,
(32:58):
which is supposedly organic.
I can't tell you how many timesyou get, I'm sorry, today's potato
is now, they call it conventional.
They don't even say it's conventional.
So there as, as someone coming from, uh.
A very food centric country is scary.
(33:19):
It's very scary.
Yeah.
Because I can't avoid thepoisons that you give me because
that's all you're giving me.
Yeah.
That is a, that is a hugeproblem in this country.
Simon (33:30):
Yeah.
I, I, it's, it's interesting.
I find, I, I did an experimentwith myself recently where like
a lot of people, when I eat.
Bread or pasta, I don't feel great, right?
Like it just kills me.
'cause I like bread.
I like pasta.
Like I could eat pasta every day, all day.
(33:53):
And I started noticing that whenI would spend a little bit more
money on something that was producedoutside of the United States, right?
Flour not grown here, that mystomach didn't do the same thing.
Right.
And so now the only, if I buy flour, Ionly buy flour that I, I really stop and
(34:16):
read the label and I really look at whereit's coming from, and I make sure that
it's not coming from the United States.
And if I'm buying pasta, itisn't the standard stuff.
I'm trying to find the, thethings that are, that look well.
I like the, the feel, the, the feel inmy mouth of, of pasta that has got a
more handmade feel to it, but absolutely.
(34:36):
But more than that, it's whereis the flour coming from?
Because I don't know whatthey're doing in the,
Luca (34:42):
I'll tell you what they do.
It's not good.
They, uh, spray thecorn fields with bleach.
In fact, I tell people, Ihave people, customers there.
I tell 'em like, you're going to eitherthis summer hammer and gluten free.
No, no, you're not,you're not gluten free.
Do me a favor and try a prayer pasta.
Literally, people that come backlike, oh my God, I was able to have
(35:03):
gluten all over because I tell people,you're not intolerant to gluten.
You are intolerant to the shit thatthey put in the gluten over here.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that is another deceiving.
Uh,
Simon (35:16):
yeah, I mean, uh,
it's, it's one of those thingsyou get, you gotta, you gotta
pay attention, you know,
Luca (35:23):
from, from a country that is non GMO.
The conspiracy theory in thefifties, everybody says, okay, fat
is bad, so let's take off the fatand let's replenish you with sugar.
Diabetes, all kinds of metabolic diseasesthat exploded in the past 67 years.
(35:44):
Yeah, because there's a fear,well, what's the other one?
Food.
The food is unfortunately tied tothe health, the pharma, and the whole
thing, and they all make absolutelybillions, all of of sick people.
Yeah, and that makes me mad, butI understand it's capitalism,
so there's no soul, but.
Simon (36:05):
I mean, that that's a, that is its own conversation all by itself.
But there's absolutely somethingI, I learned recently, oh,
I can't remember his name.
I think The Economist was, hisname was Moore, and he, and I could
be getting this wrong, but it'ssomewhere in the late seventies.
He, he started talking about.
(36:26):
Um, a diff almost a different kindof capitalism, and it's really, he,
we can blame him for how things are.
Yeah.
Before the mid to late seventies in theUnited States, especially, capitalism was
about getting the best product forward.
Okay?
After that time.
(36:46):
They stopped thinking, they stoppedbeing concerned with the cost of it.
And when I say the cost, Ididn't mean the dollar cost.
I mean we by all, by any meansnecessary the consequence, so right, the
consequences of deal of the people thatit hurt or the people that it didn't pay.
And so it became maximum profitno matter the cost versus.
(37:11):
Best product to market, whichwas really what Capitalism
originally, originally was about.
Yeah,
xx (37:17):
that is fair.
It was
Simon (37:18):
how do I bring the best thing forward?
Right?
And so I think, I think that asI look at companies and I look at
especially hospitality company, youknow, restaurant companies, I look for
the ones that are talking about thepeople and talking about the people.
And then I. Watch their actions andif the, if it really lines up, then I
(37:39):
might be inclined to, to deal with themor talk to them or, or patronize them.
But, you know, it's, it's, so, I thinkit's coming around slowly because Yeah.
Because, especially in thistime post covid, nobody wants
to work in the restaurants.
Nobody wants to be treated that way.
Nobody wants to, you know, people want,people wanna have their insurance,
(38:01):
they wanna, if they're gonna work thathard, they want to have the benefits
that sort of everybody else has, right.
Um, without having to be inthe cubicle, I'm like, you're
never gonna put me in a cubicle.
Luca (38:13):
No.
Never gonna work
Simon (38:14):
like nine to.
Luca (38:18):
Yeah, I know.
I'm a double dig guy.
That's why we feeling like
Simon (38:20):
I'm useless before 10 o'clock in the morning.
Luca (38:24):
Well see, I started, so during the period where I had the break from
the restaurant, you know what I thought?
I'm like, okay, I wanna makemoney while I'm sleeping.
So sure, let's go work for a creditcard company and get residual.
Fast forward three years later, Istill make 50 bucks a month from three
very small clients that I have, but.
I went outta my comfort zone.
(38:45):
Now I'm, I, I do onlinenetworking events every Friday.
You bringing people together?
I am starting to do something.
See, I went from the credit cardand now what, what I, what do
I enjoy being around people.
I bring people together, put 'embreakout rooms, have them network, you
know, send them the spreadsheet witheverybody's industry so they can go.
(39:05):
And I still do things for the people.
I try to switch on, on this side becauseit would come to a point where I just
want to sit on the beach and do nothing.
You know?
Absolutely.
Simon (39:17):
I'm already at that point.
I'm just not there yet.
Luca (39:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm getting there.
I'm getting there.
I still have.
Well, Luca,
Simon (39:24):
what a, what a great conversation.
I really appreciate youcoming to play with us.
Luca (39:27):
Absolutely.
This, this was, uh, thepleasure was all mine.
Simon (39:32):
Uh, I'm gonna make sure that everybody can find you.
So in the, in the show notes, we'regonna put all your links, um, and so
that they can find you and check outwhether it's what, what restaurant
you're you're at right now, or, uh, evenmore importantly, the, we'll make sure
we should make sure that the link toyour, your networking events is there.
Yeah, because that's pretty cool.
Luca (39:53):
Um, those are free to join and they're fun.
They're pretty fun.
Simon (39:57):
Yeah.
Like I said, if it wasn't, if itwasn't so early in the morning for
me, I know I might even be into it.
Luca (40:02):
Hey, I, I might do another one for the as as we grow, we
might have a second day slot, whichI'll make sure it's, it's later.
The reason why we do it early is becauseI also want involve people from Europe,
and so at that time it's kind of like 4:00PM in Western Europe, so, so that's it.
Simon (40:22):
Awesome.
Once again, thank you so muchfor coming all out there.
Time on there.
Thank you
Luca (40:26):
for your time.
Simon (40:27):
Uh, find the culinary mechanic at uh, culinary mechanic.com.
You can find the podcast whereveryou consume your podcasts and
YouTube 'cause we're fancy now.
xx (40:39):
Perfect.
I love it.
Um.
Simon (40:41):
And don't forget, we're now a part of the Heritage Radio
Network, which is just amazing.
Um, there's a whole stack ofgood podcasts to check out.
If you're not just there to checkout mine, um, would love for
y'all to go and leave me a review.
'cause, uh, the more people thatstart to hear about this podcast,
the better, uh, the more reviewsthey, the people start to see that,
(41:03):
uh, it's worth, uh, checking out.
So once again, Luca, thank you.
Luca (41:08):
Thank you, Simon.
Simon (41:08):
I'll catch you on the flip side.
Luca (41:10):
Have a great rest of your day.
Ciao.
You too.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
. Luca (00:31):
So you wanna know how I started in the restaurant business?
So I started in the restaurantbusiness from, uh, necessity
because I was in college.
So I was in Milan having mybeautiful five years of college.
Uh, this was, uh, in 98 I started, butI don't know if you remember, if 2002
(00:55):
we switched from Lira to the Europe.
Yeah, we had in Europe, we had the, themoney that changed and we all get this
unique currency that between me andyou, fucked us a up because basically
what happened the next day, the pricesare doubled, everything cost twice
(01:16):
as much, but magically you are stillgetting the same money as you did before.
Simon (01:21):
Yeah.
Luca (01:22):
So me.
I'm like, okay, what do I do?
I, my parents are like, no, no study.
You focus on study.
But I'm like, mom, I need to beable to take someone out for dinner.
So I found this job at this, uh.
It was called Lala.
You know what clete is?
It's a French, yeah, the cheese.
Simon (01:40):
The great.
The cheese.
Luca (01:42):
And at the time we are in Italy, so you are allowed to smoke inside.
So you can only imagine thesmell of this restaurant where
people, you know, patterns.
Were smoking inside and youhave this wheels of cheese ette.
And my shift used to startat 6:00 PM to peel potatoes.
For two hours.
(02:02):
All I did was peeling potatoes
and I went up until 2:00 AM
so I did that.
I graduated, obviously couldn't find ajob, and I'm like, okay, let's go back.
It's summertime.
I found a job, a summerjob in my hometown.
Now the guy that owned the place happenedto have lived five years in San Diego,
(02:25):
so he planted the city in my head, he'slike, you should go to this in America.
You're gonna make a ton of money.
You're gonna love it,you're gonna be happy.
So when he told me the moneythat I was gonna make, I'm
like, Hey, you're shiting me.
Like there's no way, youknow, in this business.
'cause in Italy, remember it'sa very different, uh, right.
The front of the house is a verydifferent, very different thing.
(02:46):
Um, but that I am, I, I got to SanDiego, long story short, and I found,
uh, this place where I actually wasable to find a former waiter who
worked his ass off, put Swan aside,and then he open the restaurant itself.
So he told me, listen, if you're good,you could take the whole restaurant.
And I was good.
(03:06):
I was fast.
So my grandma still thinks I'vebeen in porn all of these years.
She doesn't believe that allthe money come That's amazing.
Come from the restaurant.
Yeah.
So that's, that's kinda how I started.
And I got to the point where,so I'm a really people person.
Like, I literally find joy, like talkingto people, like I'm having a great
(03:28):
time right now just by talking to you.
Like I, excellent.
I'm the kind of guy like,get me around people.
I'm fine, but by overdoing the frontof the house in a restaurant, I got
to the point where, oh shit, now Idon't want, I don't wanna deal with
people for like half an hour now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In my opinion, this is restaurant work,all kinds front back of the house.
(03:54):
I think that it helps you developso many skills that you cannot.
Learn in schools in such a shorttime, uh, patience, acting.
You are having a bad day, youstill gotta put on a smile
and, and entertain your guest.
You are a psychologist, you know,bartender, we keep, I always tell people,
(04:17):
oh, you got curtains in the closet.
I'm like, honey, I know thesize of the closet and the whole
layout of the closet of people.
Like if I were to write a book oneday, it'll be there under pressure.
Hey, you, you're talking tosomeone, you turn around and
you got five people coming in.
Then you hear the bellof the food station.
(04:40):
Four runner is nowhere to be found.
What do you do first?
You gotta think fast.
So it's a, it is a beautiful chaos wherehuman interaction gets to a point where.
You can.
It's a, it's a, it's a setting whereyou can take things personally and
(05:01):
you really absolutely have to learn.
Absolutely.
It's kind of like a soccer game, man.
I hit you in the head.
I, I tell you to fuck offat the end of the match.
I hug you because it's done.
We.
Simon (05:12):
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, uh, you, you hit on somethingthat is really, really close to my
heart, and that is like the abilityto be strong and calm under pressure.
You know?
I think that.
Uh, clearly you're thefront of the house guy.
I'm definitely the back of house guy.
Um, and I've, I've always respected thewaiters that, that I know that they've
(05:36):
got like 10, 12 tables and they'rejust, they're juggling all the balls
and up in the air and it doesn't matter.
They're able to.
They're able to take a deep breath and,and speak like a human being and get
it, get it all right, and, and smileand create experiences for people.
And in the back of the house.
I, it's really, it's the same, right?
It's different, but it's the same for me.
(05:58):
It's always the goal, especially in thelast probably 15 years, has always been.
Find a way to be in the eyeof the hurricane, right.
Be be in that place where you are able tolook around and there's just a shit storm
swirling around you, but you're able tosee what's happening and focus because I.
(06:20):
For, for me, especially as the leader,if I'm not composed and calm, then
my team is panicking because theycan't figure out why I'm not calm.
And it took me a long time to learnthat, but it's always, it's always great.
I also remember that like I. It'sthe same for you if you are a
little bit like crazy at the table.
Mm-hmm.
People start to get worried.
(06:41):
You get the people going, wait
xx (06:43):
there,
Simon (06:43):
you know, and they, they, they, they want more attention because they're
not sure what's happening instead.
Exactly.
If they get the, the calm collected tourguide, they that is, that is just leading
them down the road to, to fat and happy.
Everything's okay.
Luca (07:00):
But one thing that I have experienced, uh, in the, and, and here,
hear me out here 'cause this is very,like, from the front of the house and,
and it taught me a lot when dealing withthe back of the house because nine times
out of 10 people in the back of the house.
They don't make it, theydon't make the tips.
Okay.
(07:20):
So there's, there's this dynamicbetween back in front of the house.
I always make sure I make friends withall, with all of my back of the house.
I respect them.
I don't yell at themwhen I need something.
I, I try very hard to do that becauseI, myself put myself in their shoes.
Sure.
When you're under pressure, I mightraise my voice any hands like that, but.
(07:45):
I learned never to get in a fightwith the back of the house, first
of all, because the whole chainof command is gonna get to shit.
And, and, and who's gonna payin the end is the customer.
And so, absolutely, and thenyou, me, because I make less
tips, but ultimately the owner.
See, this is also another thing thatI live by, which is I don't think
(08:06):
anybody, not anybody, I don't wannasay anybody, but very few people do.
In my personal experience, I runthe place as if it were mine.
Yeah, I have, I have this sort oflike coin, you know, e emotional
involvement in the place because I'mthe front of the house and I represent
what I'm, so, you know, if you makebad food, I'm not gonna work for you.
(08:30):
I'm not, you know, I, I'm not thekind of guy who's in it for the money.
I am in it for the passionand for, for, for, to me.
The fact that people come back, Luca,you know, they're really happy to see me.
They're really happy.
I give them my experience.
To me, it, it just makes my day, you know?
Simon (08:48):
Yeah.
I mean.
It's interesting.
No matter what anybodysays, food's important.
You know, drinks are important, butthe service, the way that you're
able to make them feel, right?
They, if you, if people walk in andthey, they feel the, the warmth of Luca
coming at them, they're coming back, man.
(09:09):
They're, they're, that's, that'ssomething that's so important to me.
And one of the thingsthat I've tried to teach.
Cooks and and young, younger chefs overthe years is if you treat the very much
like you said, if you treat this likepeople, like you are feeding people in
your home, then yes, you're gonna havesome rough days and things are gonna go to
(09:30):
hell and you're gonna scream and yell fora half a second, but the ability to bring
it back, right, bring it back to center.
Yeah.
And remember that we're all tryingto take care of the guest because,
uh, as you and I said just beforewe were recording, the guest doesn't
give a damn what's, what is happening.
They don't care aboutinterpersonal dynamics.
(09:51):
They don't care about ego.
They want.
Whether it's the steak, the plate ofpasta, the amazing piece of fish, right?
That, that we went to the market todayto get in the vegetables that we peeled
after we got the beets out of the ground.
All that stuff goes to shit.
If we can't get along as human beings,
Luca (10:11):
that that is the very first thing.
And then you get ownersthat don't give a damn.
And because this is the toughestpart, we are a hierarchy base.
Yeah, system.
You got the chef, the sous chef, the,the whatever, the guy that brings
the, the dishwasher brings the,the, the empty uh, the clean pants.
(10:34):
And so the challenge is going beyondthe hierarchy and working as a team.
Yeah.
That is the challenge.
And the challenge is also because,you know, we, they see it.
I, I am, I am one that we shoulddo give tips to the kitchen too.
I. Right.
I am, because we all work for,it's all a service industry.
(10:58):
Sure.
I present the food, but youmake it, so, in my opinion, I'm
gonna be the devil's advocate.
I have a, I had a lot of,
Simon (11:04):
more and more that's happening, you know?
Exactly.
Uh, I, I spent, I spent nine yearswith the company not too long
ago, and somewhere along the wayit became a, a genuine tip pool.
Yeah.
Where with, with, with dedicatedpercentages to the back of the house,
and there were a few, few servers in thefront of the house that threw up their
(11:25):
arms and went running, you know, becausethey weren't gonna, they weren't gonna
make their 1 1, 1 young lady looked atthe manager and said, to hell with you,
uh, if you do this, I'm not gonna be ableto make my, my six figures this year.
And I, and I thought to myself,that's, that's regrettable.
But at the same time.
(11:46):
What about all these folks who are inthe back, who are working two jobs Yeah.
And they're married to somebodywho's also working two jobs to be
able to, to afford to live in thesame space that you, that you are.
Um, you, we have a give and taketo kind of make it work, right?
Luca (12:02):
Yeah.
But I do understand this point of viewbecause lemme tell you my point of view.
I am 90 times, 90% of thetimes against the pooling.
You know why?
I'm sorry.
I, no, nobody's as good as me.
I am good.
So I'm, I don't wanna split the tip withan 18-year-old boy who doesn't have any,
you know, 'cause then I end up doing allthe work for him now that there Yeah.
(12:25):
Yeah.
I mean,
Simon (12:26):
it's a, it's a challenge, right?
Luca (12:27):
It's a challenge.
The, the tip pooling can, it couldbe a hit or miss because the tip
pooling is the ideal situation.
When you have a harmonious team.
When you have a cohesive team,when you have a team where
literally, like, it's not about me.
It's about us.
xx (12:46):
Yes.
Luca (12:47):
That's, that's, it's hard to figure out the human being
because the human being me.
Simon (12:53):
Yeah.
I, I have found that when you startto look at big tip pooled houses, uh,
or restaurants, you, you, you stopattracting the real rock stars, right?
You, you stop attracting the people whoare the most passionate about it because
they're not gonna be able to necessarilymake what they can make in other places.
(13:14):
And so it's you, you get somethingdifferent, but you get consistent, right?
Like, uh, with any luck,those tip pool, those heavily.
Pooled houses also provide the trainingto allow like the average person
to excel just a little bit more.
And I think that that's the theory.
Um, eh, there's, there's no perfectsystem because I know that, I know that
(13:38):
sometimes you, you you're in a placeand it's, you are making your money and
the, the cooks are making their money.
And I feel like hopefully in the, inthe right circumstances, if they're not
making tips in the back of the house.
They're not, they're, they'rebeing compensated well enough that
they're able to focus on the factthat they love what they're doing.
(13:59):
Absolutely right.
And I think that there's, there'sebb and flow to all of that because.
There are times when I can look backand go, I wasn't making a lot of
money, but damn it was I learning.
'cause the chef was amazingand the team was amazing.
And quite frankly, the wine list wasgreat and getting a glass of wine after
(14:20):
work was fucking worth it, you know?
And, and the servers that Iworked with taught me things
about the, taught me things about.
The whole experience.
And so that was worth it to meas I was coming up for a coach.
Absolutely.
And I think that, I guess it'sthat moment of like hopping on the
(14:40):
soapbox and screaming at the youngpeople to say, gather the experience.
It's not just about the ego.
Right.
Like so much.
Absolutely.
So much about cooking nowadaysis I wanna be the chef.
I wanna be the chef.
Yeah.
You don't really wanna be thechef, or if you do, you don't
know what you're asking for.
Right.
Luca (14:59):
Oh, I never wanna be the manager.
I never wanna be the.
Uh, well, I make more moneywith less responsibility.
It's, it's totally, it's a no brainer.
Totally.
Simon (15:09):
Yeah.
Uh, I definitely saw that.
I definitely saw bartenders over the yearswho made way more money than I ever did.
Luca (15:16):
That is a bigger problem in the industry.
The management is notcompensated at the same.
They, they were compet.
Not only that, they competit much less.
Yeah.
So that makes a hugeturnaround of managers.
I see it a lot of, but I also
Simon (15:32):
think that, that it's about, it's about sorting the people.
Like the people have to go where they,there, there are people who are meant
to be leaders and meant to be managers.
Yes,
Luca (15:43):
absolutely.
And who
Simon (15:44):
are they?
Just, and it's not about, like for, forme, it wasn't about the money, did I?
Did I find myself?
Over the years, like, oh wait, Ican make a good deal more money
if I go do this instead of that.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
At one point in my career I said,okay, I can work for a more of a
famous restaurant where there isn'tas much infrastructure there is.
(16:04):
I might not get a vacation andthey're gonna run me ragged, or I
can go work for this company That.
It's corporate, but Istill have some focus.
I still have some, uh, say aroundthe, some of the menu Uhhuh.
Um, but I have two sous chefsand I have a good sized team and
I have some infrastructure andthey want me to take vacation.
(16:25):
So I made that choice,right, so that I, yep.
And I realized this is where I haveto develop, where I have to develop
the desire to be the leader, right?
To really be, be less of the,oh, it's all about the food.
It's.
It's as much about the peopleas it is about the food.
Luca (16:41):
It is, it is.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Simon (16:43):
That was, that for me was the, the big change.
Right.
And I think that, um, my lo verymuch like you, I love people.
I love to be in it.
I love to be talking to people andseeing like what, what makes them tick?
And I mean, I worked for, for thatcompany for five, almost six years.
And one of the things I learned, one ofthe things that changed in me the most.
(17:07):
When I got there, I would hire for skill.
When I left, I was hiring for desire.
Desire.
I was, I was hiring for people who want,quite frankly, they just wanted a job
and they wanted to make money, and theywanted to work as hard as they could
to make as much money as they could.
And so if you taught them.
(17:28):
They would just knock down walls for you.
Right.
And you teach.
And teach and teach.
And they would just, they would justsoak it up and go, is this how you do it?
Is this the best way I can do it?
And yes.
And they would just charge forward.
xx (17:42):
Absolutely.
And that was
Simon (17:42):
like, that was such a different thing after so many
years of being in restaurants.
Luca (17:47):
Yeah.
Simon (17:48):
That way it was all very competitive.
It was all me, me, me, me.
Right.
You
Luca (17:52):
know, skill, skills.
Skills can be taught.
The drive is gotta come from within.
You either have the burning desirein you or you don't, or you don't.
I had, I had to take a break.
My woman had to take me away.
She made me realize onenight we had a fight.
We were in Mexico.
Long story short, we had a fight.
(18:12):
I got drunk and I screamed at her.
Every normal person were like.
Fuck off you idiot.
She was like, okay, what's wrong with you?
And she made me realize that I,I hated, I needed a break from
that environment for a bit.
Yeah.
I took off for a few months and,and now I'm like recharged as ever.
But that it's very important also tonot get burned out, which is something
(18:36):
almost impossible to do in this business.
But, but one thing that I can absolutely.
Tell everybody, don't overdo it.
Like I know the system is usually morehours, more money, but the mental health,
that's something you never get back.
And it also affects, affectsyour performance in a long
time, in the long term.
Simon (18:57):
Yeah.
Luca (18:57):
Especially, you know,
Simon (18:58):
I, yeah, I have a friend and he, he's a consultant and he
talks, he, he's the only person I'veever heard that talks about this.
And he says, you know,workload is a thing.
Like if you, if you try to do toomuch for too long, your ability
to do great work goes down.
(19:20):
And here's where he get, he differs fromeverybody else because he says, you know,
if you look at professional sports, right?
If you look at people who are aimingto get maximum performance out of
whether it's 90 minutes of football,
xx (19:34):
yep.
Simon (19:35):
Or soccer or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah.
Or whatever, or, or 60 minutes, youknow, 60 actual minutes of mm-hmm.
Football or whatever.
That 48 minutes of basketball, they,those sports teams, they monitor workload.
They really, really havea tight grip on Yeah.
How much weightlifting they're doingand how much they're running and,
(19:57):
and how much they're recovering.
Right.
And I think that.
There's, there's gotta be a shift.
There is a shift slowly, but I thinkover time we have to stop and go.
xx (20:08):
Yeah,
Simon (20:08):
wait, what?
How am I performing best?
When am I performing best?
You know, I come from the school of 10,12, 14 hours, but as I've gotten older,
it's like, wait, if I work like 10 hours,nine hours, and I'm really focused and
I'm really organized, I get a ton done.
(20:30):
And then, wait, I've done allmy work and it's nine and a
half hours in and like, oh wait.
Okay.
And so I've been trying to teach peoplerecently, like pay attention to how
you, not just what you have to getdone and, and all those things, uh, but
like when you're able to do them best.
Right.
(20:51):
I, I, like, I don't wanna crusadefor optimal performance in the
restaurant industry instead of just,oh, I have to work 16 hours today.
Yeah.
You know, uh, and I first noticedthis when I started to realize
that like servers like yourself
xx (21:06):
mm-hmm.
Simon (21:07):
After like four hours on the floor, you start, y'all start to go
downhill and, and it's not anybody'sbad or anything like that, but like you,
you can only people so hard for so long.
Yeah.
And I, I remember thinking like,why do, why do servers work
four hours, five hour shifts?
Six, if it's a long day, youknow, it's like Sunday brunch.
(21:29):
Yeah.
We're going for the long day.
Right.
Everybody that's, that's likethe nastiest word in the world.
Oh yeah.
Most, but, but it's like, why, whyare they working five and I'm working.
As a cook, I would work eightor eight and a half or as a,
as a, as a young sous chef.
It was 12, right?
Yeah, of course it was 12.
(21:49):
But wait, why, why is that and how, how?
And then I then I, I had a momentprobably in my early thirties of,
well, maybe I should go be a server.
And then I thought about itagain and I was like, no way.
Like they, they do a thing that
Luca (22:02):
I, let me tell you why the restaurant this, is this coming from
an Italian, okay, this, this might be alittle bit, not everybody probably will
agree with me and I'm probably gonnaraise some eyebrows here, but that's
good, in my opinion or in my, you know.
Witnessing the restaurant is reallythe one of the few places where the
(22:24):
Americans is free to do whatever he wants.
In a sense.
He, he takes delivery and hegets the confidence to say, okay,
yeah, I can do this to my weather.
Like, uh, you know, I have, I'vehad some story of people trying to
get, you know, the impossible outtame just because they want to look
good in front of their friends.
Yeah.
(22:44):
And sometimes disrespect meand then, you know, in those.
In those situation, you can't, you know,you can't put the customer in a bad
situation in front of their friends.
So you have to find a way to not takeit personal, play the game, make it
look good, but there are some situation,you're talking about the ego before,
(23:08):
we have to like literally put theego like 20,000 foot down sometimes,
because there are some people that.
You know, they, they're rude.
They, or they are, you know,they don't have respect for you
or they, or they dis disrespect.
Uh, you always, I always say youlearn a lot about a person from
(23:29):
how they treat a host or a boss.
Absolutely.
You can know a lot aboutthe person from that.
Yeah.
So the, the front of the house has alsoto deal with these things because when
in the back of the house you can tellyour, your sous chef, fuck off, go get
me another, uh, you know, uh, steakin the back because you fuck this up.
(23:51):
I can't say that in front
Simon (23:52):
of the house.
Right.
I think that that expendsa lot of energy, right?
Being able to contain, containwhat, what wants to come out.
No, I, I absolutely agree.
I mean, I think, I think I learned along time ago, like there's a reason
why those shifts are, are shorter.
Like I said, you can onlypeople so much, right?
You can only, you can only interactat that level of, uh, and, and control
(24:15):
the chaos from within, um, for so long.
So,
Luca (24:19):
and plus you have to talk to a lot of people, you know,
to the customer, Hey, what's up?
Oh, chef.
And they ask, sometimes youjust have to be, yeah, sure.
Like, okay, why don't you stopin talking to me, you know?
Simon (24:34):
Um, so tell me.
Tell me about, tell me aboutsome of your favorite moments.
'cause I, I think we, it's really easy totalk about the things that go wrong, but
Luca (24:45):
Yeah.
Simon (24:45):
What, what are your, tell, tell me about the experiences that
you're able to craft for peoplethat, that make you the happiest.
Luca (24:51):
The favorite moments for me is the, the.
The happiness that I give mycustomers when, you know, I've
had people literally follow mearound when I change restaurants.
People that really came not forthe food before the experience that
I was giving them, which UnitedStates is, you can do that in Italy.
(25:16):
They all go for food.
They don't, they don't careabout the service at all.
So I found it fascinating that,that a lot in America sometimes.
People put service over the foodbecause they want to be able
to feel, they wanna feel loved.
I think that they want to feel loved.
They want to feel catered.
They want to feel taken care of, you know?
(25:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's one of those things that, whereasin Italy, we got that in our families,
we get that from birth, so we don'twant, we don't care about that.
We just want food, you know?
But, and it's fa No, it'sfascinating because we are rude.
Italians are the rudest restaurants.
Italians are usually the rudest.
Simon (25:57):
That's interesting.
Luca (25:58):
You know, Spanish, actually Spanish are the rule more than
Italians, but we got a similar quarters.
Simon (26:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can believe that.
You know, I, I, it's interesting whatyou're really speaking to me is, is
the importance of hospitality, right?
The importance of how we treat each other.
Yes.
Um.
And I think that, you know, there's,uh, the, for me, the book that, that
everybody's talking about right nowand has been out for a couple years
is, , unreasonable Hospitality.
(26:25):
And I am, I have
Luca (26:27):
to, I have to get it.
I, uh, you gotta
Simon (26:28):
read it, man.
You gotta read it.
I'll read it.
But you're, you're gonna laughbecause as you go through it, you're
just gonna say, of course, right?
Like, I think that.
You come, you, you have, youunderstand hospitality because
it's, it's deep inside you.
And I think that, yeah.
Oh yeah.
For, for some of us, I don'tknow, maybe it's just, maybe
it's just us fucking Americans.
(26:49):
You know?
I, and I, and I, honestly, I say thatwith a little bit of Jess, but at the same
time it's like, maybe it's just us, butthere's a, there's this moment when you're
like thinking about the things that.
That other person want to, to, to feelyou, you said loved and cared for.
And I think, yeah, I thinkabout make people feel special.
(27:09):
Like take that moment to saylike, this only this is, this
is what is important to you.
You know?
I mean, I wouldn't receive
Luca (27:17):
postcards to the restaurant letters.
They would send a letter fromthe, from, you know, oh my God, my
grandma turned 90, still talks abouther birthday, and you were server.
Like, those things are the thingsthat, that make my day, and this is
why I, I still can get out of thistrap because it makes me happy.
Simon (27:39):
Absolutely.
There, there's an, there's an addictionto the way you're able to make yourself
feel by making others feel great.
For sure.
Luca (27:46):
It's, and it's something that,
Simon (27:48):
it's all day long
Luca (27:49):
inexplicable, but it's, it's the best feeling in the world to me.
To me, when, when you canmake someone else's happy,
you really made a difference.
Like I, I know it sounds cliche, but I.
There's, you know, it'swhat the word is for,
Simon (28:04):
you know, they're called cliches for a reason.
It's because they happen a lot.
Right.
Um, you know, I think that all, all thosethings, they, they come together and
to, to be something that is common, but.
And so we say, oh, that's cliche, but no,that's, there's nothing wrong with that.
(28:24):
Yeah.
You know, I know like, tho those are,those are beautiful things because
they, they, they are evocative of thethings that, that mean something to us.
That's why cliches are cliches.
Luca (28:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But yeah.
Simon (28:36):
Um,
Luca (28:36):
anyway, I believe that in our industry now we face two major
shifts, like something that oneis for the back of the house and
one is for the front of the house.
The front of the house is likewith ai, servers are gonna
be more scarce than ever.
Nobody's gonna be able, everybody's nowon ai, on a computer in 10 years from now.
(29:02):
Talking to people willbe a very scarce skill.
So I think that we are goingthrough, we, we, that's where, you
know, maybe let's open a schoolof waiters or something like that.
That's probably something thatin the future I could see myself
doing in a sense, transition.
Oh man,
Simon (29:21):
sign me up.
I mean, right.
What you're describing is likean existential crisis of, of,
of, of social constructs.
Luca (29:30):
I mean, it all started with social media, but now we are
really at the point where we aska machine to do everything so.
Yeah, we're going into oblivion.
Relationship wise, I have a feeling,
Simon (29:42):
I mean, uh, I don't know how it is where you are, but up
here, minimum wage is so highthat that restaurant owners are.
Many of them of them are choosingnot to use servers anymore.
They're using morecounter service or, yes.
If it's counter service, they're,instead of having two cashiers or
(30:02):
three cashiers, they're having onecashier and one kiosk where you
go and you just, boop, boop, boop.
Yep.
Even you go into McDonald's, right?
You go into McDonald's, and Idon't go there very often, but I,
I had to, I was, I needed to eatsomething and I didn't have my car.
I was waiting for my carto be finished at the shop.
And I go in and I waslike, there's nobody here.
(30:24):
There's just a bunch of screens.
And I was like, okay.
So boom, boom, boom.
And then all of a sudden my foodcomes up and the, the lady says, 91.
And I go, go up.
And she's already gone.
She's not even waiting to give it to me.
It's just sitting on the tray.
That's it.
And I thought, oh, so PEinteraction and the, the interaction
amongst humans is, you're right.
(30:44):
It, it's going.
Yeah.
And it's.
It's not getting better, right?
Like, no.
And I mean, before
Luca (30:50):
we had the excuse of the hustle, we had to get somewhere.
Now we had covid, everybody relaxed.
So where the hell do you gotta go now?
Relax, enjoy, you know, talk.
Say hi.
Yeah, pat on the back, you know,uh, interact as, yeah, you doing
how your kids, everything new youwant, we all like so, so busy.
To get to the next pointthat we really, we.
(31:13):
Can enjoy the present.
Yeah.
That's, that's, I, I don't disagree.
And that's what I loveabout this business.
'cause every all day I'm like, enjoying.
Simon (31:22):
Yeah.
Luca (31:22):
Enjoying.
Simon (31:23):
Uh, I think that as in the last couple years, I've begun
to craft the, begun to reallyhone the, the, the skill of.
Like sitting still.
'cause that's not me, right.
I'm, I'm a go, go, go.
But as I got out of the kitchen, andnow that I do, I, I am able to talk
on, talk on the Zoom and I, and wedo the podcast and all those things.
(31:47):
It's, there's, there's moments inthe day where I'm like, wait, think
I'm gonna sit on my front porchand look at the trees for a minute?
Yeah.
Not for long.
Just for a few minutes.
And then I find that when I amdone doing that, I'm like, huh.
My mind is fresh again, andI'm ready to go back in.
You know?
Um, I don't know.
It's the, it's the, there, there'ssomething very, very valuable about Yeah.
(32:11):
Like the value of not
Luca (32:14):
the value of not.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
That's very true.
Now, the other challenge thatwe're gonna face and then in is
the back of the house has the food.
Is the food not only for the cost.
That's already making restaurants avery non-smart business nowadays, unless
you really, you know, have it together.
(32:37):
But we gotta fix this.
FDA, come on.
In Italy, 75% of the shit fromFDA is prohibited in Italy.
And to me, what scares me is theaccessibility of real food in
the US because right now we arepurchasing, you know, I get afresh,
(32:58):
which is supposedly organic.
I can't tell you how many timesyou get, I'm sorry, today's potato
is now, they call it conventional.
They don't even say it's conventional.
So there as, as someone coming from, uh.
A very food centric country is scary.
(33:19):
It's very scary.
Yeah.
Because I can't avoid thepoisons that you give me because
that's all you're giving me.
Yeah.
That is a, that is a hugeproblem in this country.
Simon (33:30):
Yeah.
I, I, it's, it's interesting.
I find, I, I did an experimentwith myself recently where like
a lot of people, when I eat.
Bread or pasta, I don't feel great, right?
Like it just kills me.
'cause I like bread.
I like pasta.
Like I could eat pasta every day, all day.
(33:53):
And I started noticing that whenI would spend a little bit more
money on something that was producedoutside of the United States, right?
Flour not grown here, that mystomach didn't do the same thing.
Right.
And so now the only, if I buy flour, Ionly buy flour that I, I really stop and
(34:16):
read the label and I really look at whereit's coming from, and I make sure that
it's not coming from the United States.
And if I'm buying pasta, itisn't the standard stuff.
I'm trying to find the, thethings that are, that look well.
I like the, the feel, the, the feel inmy mouth of, of pasta that has got a
more handmade feel to it, but absolutely.
(34:36):
But more than that, it's whereis the flour coming from?
Because I don't know whatthey're doing in the,
Luca (34:42):
I'll tell you what they do.
It's not good.
They, uh, spray thecorn fields with bleach.
In fact, I tell people, Ihave people, customers there.
I tell 'em like, you're going to eitherthis summer hammer and gluten free.
No, no, you're not,you're not gluten free.
Do me a favor and try a prayer pasta.
Literally, people that come backlike, oh my God, I was able to have
(35:03):
gluten all over because I tell people,you're not intolerant to gluten.
You are intolerant to the shit thatthey put in the gluten over here.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that is another deceiving.
Uh,
Simon (35:16):
yeah, I mean, uh,
it's, it's one of those thingsyou get, you gotta, you gotta
pay attention, you know,
Luca (35:23):
from, from a country that is non GMO.
The conspiracy theory in thefifties, everybody says, okay, fat
is bad, so let's take off the fatand let's replenish you with sugar.
Diabetes, all kinds of metabolic diseasesthat exploded in the past 67 years.
(35:44):
Yeah, because there's a fear,well, what's the other one?
Food.
The food is unfortunately tied tothe health, the pharma, and the whole
thing, and they all make absolutelybillions, all of of sick people.
Yeah, and that makes me mad, butI understand it's capitalism,
so there's no soul, but.
Simon (36:05):
I mean, that that's a, that is its own conversation all by itself.
But there's absolutely somethingI, I learned recently, oh,
I can't remember his name.
I think The Economist was, hisname was Moore, and he, and I could
be getting this wrong, but it'ssomewhere in the late seventies.
He, he started talking about.
(36:26):
Um, a diff almost a different kindof capitalism, and it's really, he,
we can blame him for how things are.
Yeah.
Before the mid to late seventies in theUnited States, especially, capitalism was
about getting the best product forward.
Okay?
After that time.
(36:46):
They stopped thinking, they stoppedbeing concerned with the cost of it.
And when I say the cost, Ididn't mean the dollar cost.
I mean we by all, by any meansnecessary the consequence, so right, the
consequences of deal of the people thatit hurt or the people that it didn't pay.
And so it became maximum profitno matter the cost versus.
(37:11):
Best product to market, whichwas really what Capitalism
originally, originally was about.
Yeah,
xx (37:17):
that is fair.
It was
Simon (37:18):
how do I bring the best thing forward?
Right?
And so I think, I think that asI look at companies and I look at
especially hospitality company, youknow, restaurant companies, I look for
the ones that are talking about thepeople and talking about the people.
And then I. Watch their actions andif the, if it really lines up, then I
(37:39):
might be inclined to, to deal with themor talk to them or, or patronize them.
But, you know, it's, it's, so, I thinkit's coming around slowly because Yeah.
Because, especially in thistime post covid, nobody wants
to work in the restaurants.
Nobody wants to be treated that way.
Nobody wants to, you know, people want,people wanna have their insurance,
(38:01):
they wanna, if they're gonna work thathard, they want to have the benefits
that sort of everybody else has, right.
Um, without having to be inthe cubicle, I'm like, you're
never gonna put me in a cubicle.
Luca (38:13):
No.
Never gonna work
Simon (38:14):
like nine to.
Luca (38:18):
Yeah, I know.
I'm a double dig guy.
That's why we feeling like
Simon (38:20):
I'm useless before 10 o'clock in the morning.
Luca (38:24):
Well see, I started, so during the period where I had the break from
the restaurant, you know what I thought?
I'm like, okay, I wanna makemoney while I'm sleeping.
So sure, let's go work for a creditcard company and get residual.
Fast forward three years later, Istill make 50 bucks a month from three
very small clients that I have, but.
I went outta my comfort zone.
(38:45):
Now I'm, I, I do onlinenetworking events every Friday.
You bringing people together?
I am starting to do something.
See, I went from the credit cardand now what, what I, what do
I enjoy being around people.
I bring people together, put 'embreakout rooms, have them network, you
know, send them the spreadsheet witheverybody's industry so they can go.
(39:05):
And I still do things for the people.
I try to switch on, on this side becauseit would come to a point where I just
want to sit on the beach and do nothing.
You know?
Absolutely.
Simon (39:17):
I'm already at that point.
I'm just not there yet.
Luca (39:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm getting there.
I'm getting there.
I still have.
Well, Luca,
Simon (39:24):
what a, what a great conversation.
I really appreciate youcoming to play with us.
Luca (39:27):
Absolutely.
This, this was, uh, thepleasure was all mine.
Simon (39:32):
Uh, I'm gonna make sure that everybody can find you.
So in the, in the show notes, we'regonna put all your links, um, and so
that they can find you and check outwhether it's what, what restaurant
you're you're at right now, or, uh, evenmore importantly, the, we'll make sure
we should make sure that the link toyour, your networking events is there.
Yeah, because that's pretty cool.
Luca (39:53):
Um, those are free to join and they're fun.
They're pretty fun.
Simon (39:57):
Yeah.
Like I said, if it wasn't, if itwasn't so early in the morning for
me, I know I might even be into it.
Luca (40:02):
Hey, I, I might do another one for the as as we grow, we
might have a second day slot, whichI'll make sure it's, it's later.
The reason why we do it early is becauseI also want involve people from Europe,
and so at that time it's kind of like 4:00PM in Western Europe, so, so that's it.
Simon (40:22):
Awesome.
Once again, thank you so muchfor coming all out there.
Time on there.
Thank you
Luca (40:26):
for your time.
Simon (40:27):
Uh, find the culinary mechanic at uh, culinary mechanic.com.
You can find the podcast whereveryou consume your podcasts and
YouTube 'cause we're fancy now.
xx (40:39):
Perfect.
I love it.
Um.
Simon (40:41):
And don't forget, we're now a part of the Heritage Radio
Network, which is just amazing.
Um, there's a whole stack ofgood podcasts to check out.
If you're not just there to checkout mine, um, would love for
y'all to go and leave me a review.
'cause, uh, the more people thatstart to hear about this podcast,
the better, uh, the more reviewsthey, the people start to see that,
(41:03):
uh, it's worth, uh, checking out.
So once again, Luca, thank you.
Luca (41:08):
Thank you, Simon.
Simon (41:08):
I'll catch you on the flip side.
Luca (41:10):
Have a great rest of your day.
Ciao.
You too.
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