June 17, 2025 • 51 mins
Your food’s great. Your service is solid. So why aren’t your guests coming back?
In this episode, Simon sits down with Ewan Thompson of Hospitality Benchmark Solutions (HBS) to dismantle one of the most dangerous assumptions in independent restaurants: that a great first visit guarantees a second.
They get into the gritty truth of guest retention—why it’s not a marketing problem, how emotional connection trumps good reviews, and why the simplest upgrades to your guest experience might be hiding six figures in unrealized revenue.
If you think guest loyalty is just about good food and friendly service, this episode is going to rewire your thinking.
You’ll walk away with tactical ideas, a better lens for your service sequence, and one question every manager should ask before checkout.
Connect with Ewan
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ewanthompson1/
Website: https://hospitalitybenchmarksolutions.co.uk/
Connect with Simon
Email: simon@culinarymechanic.com
Book a Call: https://calendly.com/culinarymechanic/discovery
Website: https://www.culinarymechanic.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
simon (00:31):
Joining me today is you and Thompson.
This company is HospitalityBenchmark Solutions.
We're gonna call it HBS 'causethat's a mouthful, brother.
Welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
Thanks.
I'm doing great, man.
I'm up here in Seattle and thesunshine has finally come out.
Uh, so it's, you know, I, I'm,I'm preparing for 61 days of
(00:53):
sunshine and then it'll go away.
So it's all
Ewan (00:56):
good.
Don't come to the uk, Simon.
Don't come to the uk.
You're never gonna get61 days of sunshine.
simon (01:03):
Uh, I think 61 is actually in a row.
Is is actually like stretching.
It might only be 41, but that's okay.
Well, like I said, welcometo Culinary Mechanic.
Um, let's just jump into it, man.
Tell me how you got, like, how'dyou get into this industry?
Um, how, you know, how
Ewan (01:22):
did it
simon (01:22):
all begin for you?
Ewan (01:24):
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's go, let's, let's, let's.
I try not to like, givethe too long a version.
Um, but I can remember, uh, 16 yearsold working in, uh, my friend's
dad's bar, um, glass collecting,um, for, you know, two summers.
(01:44):
So I got, got him, got him from there,and then at weekends when I was at school.
So it started right back then.
And uh, and then when I.
I went to university, I leftprobably sooner than I should
have done in my parents' eyes.
And I went to work with, um, uh, a, a guyin my hometown and he ran a restaurant
(02:07):
and I just fell in love with it then.
And, um, I've kind of neverlooked back since, really?
But, uh, yeah, it's right in myblood from, from like, really, you
know, where we go 30, 30 odd years.
simon (02:21):
Nice.
So is it, is it the community aspect?
Is it the adrenaline aspect?
Is it,
Ewan (02:29):
uh, you know what I do, what we'll get into what I do in a bit,
but, um, now I'm not working weekin and week out within a restaurant.
I miss the Saturday nights.
I miss that.
I miss that being, not being able to.
Thinking you're gonna screw it all up.
And how can we get like 300 covers intonight and we've never done that before.
(02:51):
And you make it work and the peoplearound you make it work and you know
it's high, like high blood pressure.
You fall out your makeup, youfall out your makeup, someone
absolutely screws something up.
You hide it, you make.
It's all that, it's, it'slike really all that.
(03:12):
And I miss, miss those bits.
But, you know, um, I suppose theother thing as well is the, the guest,
it's always been about the guest.
Surprising the guest, you know, doing thethings that, where you get a reaction.
That's just that, that's, that'sjust giving me a buzz for years.
And, uh, and I kind oftake that into this day.
Really nice.
simon (03:33):
All right, so.
How does that, how does the, so from allof that, I, I wrote down high intensity.
Right?
I think that that's what, that's whatone of the things that I love about
the, the restaurant industry foryears was like a little bit of that
adrenaline rush on that Saturday night.
Um, but also just the intensity oflike, the importance of doing, the
(03:57):
importance of doing a lot of things well.
Right.
How does that translate to.
What you're doing now and tellus, tell us a bit about HBS.
Ewan (04:08):
So h Yeah, so what I do now really is, um, is, is quite simple.
Like the way I see it all, nearlyall restaurants are sitting on
six figure growth opportunities.
So just don't realize it'sburied in guest retention.
So what I do now is help restaurants.
Engineer more repeat bookings.
(04:30):
And we do that without discountingand offers and ad spend.
So it's really about phenomenal guestexperience and emotional connections
with guests and, you know, make,allowing restaurants to understand
that, you know, they've got areal challenge in retaining guests
already in their business while they.
I constantly go out lookingfor new, acquire new guests.
(04:52):
So that's what we do.
That's what we do now.
That's what I do now it, I startedthe company in the wake of COVID.
Um, okay.
And it was.
All about profitability, salesmaximization, labor efficiency, all
that, you know, operational excellence,people development and management.
And it, and it really still is.
(05:13):
Um, you know, and those thingsreally do make a difference.
And, you know, some people you canhelp exponentially and some people,
you know, no one's perfect, but there'snever not a return on investment on.
I kept coming back to the same thing andgot re obsessed with cement from that
I've had for 25, 30 years, and that'sguest retention and, and how we can
(05:38):
look after guests and all those thingsthat I was doing in profitability,
in margin work, in labor efficiency.
You know, the numbers kept, I keptlooking at these numbers of how many
guests are actually coming back.
Fixes all those problems ifyou get more guests who already
use your business to come back.
(06:00):
And when you start drilling downon the numbers and you know, and
it's, and I do all the time, and,uh, it's frightening that you think
you are running this restaurant.
You think you're seeing regulars, andof course you are because perhaps the
same, but it's the same few peopleyou'll see time and time again.
(06:21):
95% of them and I see are notcoming back, and it's about that.
People in this, every business outsidehospitality will have a pipeline.
It's a pipeline of sales andrevenue that's coming in and in
hospitality, we don't have it.
(06:42):
We don't see it, and we've got itin our, you know, everybody now has
an electronic reservation system.
You know, they've got it intheir, in their buildings.
And a, you know, if youare running a restaurant.
Hundred percent of your revenuescoming through this machine.
Yeah.
And it's about unpicking the data out ofthere and looking at it in a way going,
(07:02):
holy god, these people aren't coming back.
What?
Why are these people coming back?
And, and working it throughas like, as a, as thinking it.
Yeah.
Thinking it as a, as abusiness, a pipeline.
How can we influence the top ofthis pipeline right down to the
people who are coming back, 6,7, 8, 9, 10, 12 times a year?
Plus, you know, you go out ofa regular who's in every week,
(07:24):
you know, that's the holy grail.
Yeah.
Really.
So, yeah.
Um, yeah.
So that's what we do.
I,
simon (07:31):
I love it.
I think it, it, it just triggers mybrain a little bit as you're talking
about all this, because I've alwaysloved how two people can take the
same sets of data and come out.
Like on different ends of things, right?
The very same data that you look at asfar as, uh, retention and what makes
(07:53):
a, a return guest is all the same stuffthat I look at to, to then hone in on,
like how, like how good are the dishesthat we're putting, how profitable are
those dishes that we're putting out?
Um.
When you start to look at, you know,people's feeling and perception of value,
(08:13):
like, is that chicken dish overpriced?
And that's why like chicken iseverything in so many markets, right?
But yet only a few people order it.
Are we overpriced?
Is it not that good?
But it's, it's just allthose little data points.
Um, I I, that's the first thing, right?
Like I just, I love that like youcan see this huge set of data and
(08:34):
nowadays it's like, it's all there.
Everybody, everybody's creating thesesets of data, and I think that more
slowly, ever so slowly, the, thehospitality industry as a whole, the
restaurants and and whatnot are finding,like they're finding that data and
it's been there for a long time, butit's like there's so few that are truly
(08:57):
utilizing what they have in front of the.
Ewan (09:00):
Yeah.
And I, yeah, there's lot to kind of unpackthere and there's a lot of ities in what
you're saying and uh, and I'm almostlike, it's not about like, yes, we use
the data, we use the, we use the data.
We use the data.
We, we, we, you know,you know, but I don't.
I don't wanna push that onto somebody tosay, you need to be an expert analyst,
(09:21):
you know, analyst to go through this.
You know, it's just about knowing whereto look sometimes and, and where to start.
And, and you know, you talked a minute agoabout, um, about what you do in terms of
like a chicken dish and profitability and,and, and you know, perhaps how that dish
is plated up and the margin work on that.
You know, and I look atthat going, how's that?
(09:43):
How is that emotionallymaking that guest feel?
Are they, are they just not gonnasay something or are they gonna go,
that's really, you know, are theyjust gonna, you know, probably eat it.
Go.
That was lovely.
Don't come back.
You know, that was, you know, how dowe find out as an operator how that,
you know, what can we do in serviceto make sure that it isn't, how go,
(10:03):
how's everything with your food, guys?
You know it, that isthe worst question ever.
It just, yeah, it's okay.
You know, that's the, you know, weneed to find, how's your chicken?
Is that, is that how you wanted it?
You know, it's just those changing,like little steps like that
make a huge, huge difference andyou, and, and are very scalable.
And it's just how we look at, youknow, how we look at a service, um,
(10:26):
from a guest experience point of view.
As opposed to a are we just, do we wanna,do we actually wanna know the answer?
Do we wanna know theanswer to the question?
And, and ultimately that's what I do.
We just weaponize it and we just putit into a, you know, to a scalable
point, and we push back and wequestion the entire guest journey.
(10:48):
So the guest journey isn't whenthey walk through the door,
it's how do they find you?
How do they book?
How did that experience go?
How did they.
2003. I'm just thinkingof the, I think 2004.
Yeah, 2003 open.
So open.
Don't anyone else around.
(11:09):
We were on paper reservation,um, you know, paper reservations.
We were in a busy restaurant.
We had three people answering thephones, you know, throughout the day.
It was just manic ring
reservations.
That created a, a customer journey.
So how that person was on the phonecreated emotional connection because
(11:33):
you could differentiate yourself toanybody else that they phoned off.
So you have this like alreadythis connection nowadays.
I mean, I do the, I run the analysis.
It's, you know, depending on whereyou are in the, in the uk, but it's
gonna be the same worldwide, really.
Probably about.
You know, somewhere between80 and 90% are booking online.
And, and so you are losing that.
(11:55):
That's, that's oneconnection you are losing.
So how do you make thatexperience phenomenal?
How do you make it easy for themto, to do what they, they want?
Do you know the Amazon effect?
You know, sometimes you orderoff Amazon so quickly you realize
you use the wrong bloody cardand you know, but it'd be late.
That's what, that's whatrestaurant, that's what
booking a restaurant should be.
(12:15):
Even if, you know, sometimes youtake credit card details off people
and it's, you know, so you've gottago, you know, we do that in the uk,
you know, to hold the reservations,but how to make that so easy.
And then also how tocancel it really easily.
How is this experience, youknow, because people, you know,
how do we make that really easy?
Rather than they've gotta callthe restaurant, they've gotta
go through 20 hoops to do that.
We, you know, it's everything make,you know, it needs to be primed to
(12:39):
think, God, God, they're really good.
They're really good and I dunnowhy, but they're just really good.
Yeah.
And then you can take that guestjourney, you know, and we, and we
look, everyone's a bit different.
Everyone's got different, you, youknow, resources and labor resources.
They can sort of, you know, hostand reception managers or not,
or they just owner operated.
(13:00):
But how can I make that guestexperience like even better, you know?
And, and that's notabout boiling the ocean.
We're not trying to, Ican't say to a restaurant.
We're gonna hit everybody who comesthrough the door and what you need,
you know, you don't need that.
You know, I've, I, I look at thenumbers in guest retention and 5%
(13:20):
we're talking one or two bookings.
Retaining guests is, is sixfigure numbers, you know, a day.
It's not, it's, it justcompounds and compounds.
When you, when you get this pipelinekind of really focused on, you know,
turning this one time visits to two.
You know, I mean, it's like you, youknow, you can see it, you can already
think you, you know, because they comeback two times, three times, four times,
(13:43):
because 95% of them are only coming once.
So let's get 'em in this, in this process.
But, you know, you can, you can,you, you know, the get that,
that, that, that guest journey isso influenced at so many stages.
And now imagine I sent youa imagine, I, you know, your
first time in my restaurant.
(14:04):
And I sent you a text and go, hiSimon, it's Wan, um, we've got the best
table for you tonight outta the blue.
Can't wait to see you tomorrow.
I'm gonna be on shift.
So I've sent that to you.
Fact, what a point of difference, Alice.
Just, something's so simple.
It's free, it's completely, and wedo that for, you know, we, we, we do
something different for somebody else.
It's like, do you know?
Hi Simon.
You know, there's, uh, there's this eventgoing on in, in, uh, in Seattle tonight.
(14:27):
Do you know about it?
I see you are not from, I see yourbook from somewhere else, but,
but after your dinner, you know,there's, uh, there's this going on.
Have you thought about it?
It's free, it's nothing.
It's just, and there's hundredsof those that you can do that.
Yeah.
You have to everybody.
It's just like, that is a point ofdifference to me and my emotional
connection with you starts and Ihaven't even walked in your restaurant.
(14:49):
I love that.
Make sense?
simon (14:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
(15:14):
notes to connect with me directly.
Uh, you know, I, I think that.
Um, I think that for me, like from beingthe guy in the back of the house and it's
really about like producing the same foodover and over and over, I don't think
that for a lot of my career I ever reallythought about the full guest journey.
(15:35):
But now it's just, yeah.
It's, it's so fascinating to, to say.
How many touch points arethere in that guest journey,
and what does that look like?
Right?
Uh, what is it?
Um, Airbnb, they talk aboutlike, what is a 10, like five
star is the standard, right?
Like that's the big end of the scale.
(15:55):
We're gonna create a five star experience.
Well, they start talking aboutwhat is a, what is a 6, 7, 8.
9, 10, 9, 10 star experience, right?
And they, they kind of scale it upto be like, these are all the things
that you could expect from an eightstar experience from us that are,
that really are the, become thosepoint, those differentiating points.
(16:17):
So I think that.
I, I love that out, sort ofoutside thinking right to, to
an inside problem, you know?
Yeah.
Like it's, it's, it's as,it's as old as time, right?
Like, how do I get morepeople to come and Yeah.
For a lot of folks, it's.
It's, oh, I'm gonna give them goodfood, great food, great service.
(16:38):
And I think that, that for me is, youknow, the, the term in poker, right?
That's table stakes.
Like, that's the beginning.
You know, so finding all theseother ways to really influence
and, and I think as you said.
Connect emotionally with the guest.
Those,
Ewan (16:57):
so I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say something that you're
not gonna like now, Simon.
Okay.
Um, it's a, it's a common myth.
Guests will return if they enjoy it.
Like all our reviews are five stars.
Yeah.
You think you've done enough.
You think the food, youthink the food is enough.
You think the service food's good.
(17:17):
Good is not enough.
Yeah.
And when we talk.
Getting more people in.
I'm talking about gettingpeople who've already been in,
so it's not even new people.
And when you look at the numbers inthat, you know, when I talk about
sort of like say your let's, let'sgive it an actual kind of financial,
say you've got you running a, a, saya 1.5 million, so that's a $2 million
(17:41):
restaurant, you know, so what's that?
40, $40,000 a week?
Something like that might be.
Bookings.
So not covers, but individual bookings.
10,000 are, you know.
So how many of them do youthink are coming back Twice?
(18:01):
I'm telling you it's somewherebetween five, 600 are coming back
for a second visit outta 10,000.
Yeah, so, so that'swhere you are losing 95%.
So yeah.
So when we talk about getting new guestsin, we are on this constant treadmill.
Of, of, you know, maintaining a statusquo while food inflation goes up, labor
(18:25):
prices go up, you know, all these thingsare going up and you are trying to
stay, you know, with your head abovewater by, by getting your new guests.
But you, you've either gotta do twothings, get more new guests in, or put
your prices up, and I don't think wecan put our prices up anymore globally.
I think everybody's done that.
I mean, it's.
In the UK today, they're talking aboutfood inflation going up again this month.
(18:48):
You know, I mean, I, I can'tremember a month where it
didn't, you know, it's been, it'sabsolutely, it's absolutely insane.
So, so to, to maintain thisposition, we've gotta get
new people and new people in.
And what I'm saying is you do not, youdo, you keep doing that, keep doing that
as a, obviously that's what your model.
Let's just then keep doing thatwhile we focus on the, you know, the
(19:10):
95% or 90% who are walking out theback door who aren't coming back.
And we've done nothing about it, apartfrom send them a, a 30 day re-engagement
email, um, to an experience that wedidn't attach any emotional kind of
connection to in the first right.
So, good service, goodfood, good drink is.
(19:33):
The platform that allows you toemotionally connect with your guest,
but it doesn't facilitate that return.
You need to add someone else to that.
And you need to make someone actually,you know, be top of mind when they go.
Next time, where are we going?
Oh, we've got 30 places, 20places, 10 places in our head.
We've got this place in head becauseI actually know, I know Simon, uh,
(19:55):
I met the, you know, they reallydid this, they did this for me.
They got, he, he sent mea text message afterwards.
He, he gave me like a, a perceived wayof like booking by just messaging or
something, you know, just something,whatever that is, that emotionally
connected me to that restaurant.
Um, and as you say, itis not a new concept.
(20:17):
It is not a new, it is not a new thing.
It's just a, you know, sometimes Ithink we just, with all this kind of
brands and reopenings and everything.
Actually, what are we here for?
Why, why are we open?
What we do?
We here for the rest.
Why are we here?
We to look after people?
Let's just fucking dothat really, really well.
Um, and yeah, that's, that's, that's it.
simon (20:40):
It's so easy to get caught up in all the toys, all the, all the
new, and I, I think when I, when I'mtalking to operators, and I'm sure you
probably see this, I mean, you do, but.
The, the, the, almost the numberone thing I tell people is Stop,
like, stop everything for a minuteand let's talk about the basics.
(21:04):
Let's really nail the, let'sget so great at the simplest,
most basic parts of our job.
Right?
Um, you know, I, I definitely lookat execution in the restaurants
and, and like you and I arereally saying the same thing.
It's like food and beverage is a foodor food and beverage and service there.
(21:27):
The very basic operating things.
And so, so many times we think thatthat's gonna be the thing, right?
Yeah.
And I, I, I, I, there's so many otherpieces that, that have to be, like,
cranked up just a bit, you know?
And, and I, I just like, I like thefact that you're taking a look at the
things that a lot of folks aren't, right?
(21:50):
Yeah.
I think that's such a valuable piece.
Ewan (21:53):
I, yeah.
Yeah.
I think we are a little bit,but I think we we're not,
but we're not doing anything.
People don't, in their heart know already.
That is a thing.
They need to be lookingand, and you've only look.
Um, A KPI dashboard is always gonnahave marginalized, it's always gonna
have revenue, you know, position.
(22:14):
It's always gonna have labor percentages.
Also with labor, it's alwaysgonna have like reviews.
Now, actually, so there's those four,four things and, and there's a say
we, like, we've always done that.
We've, we all know thatwe want more guests.
We all hear the things about guestretention and, you know, and 5%.
(22:37):
You know, increasing retentioncan lead to problems of 25 to 95%.
Thank you.
Harvard Business School.
You know, we all, you know, we all knowthese are the right things to do, right?
But, but it deemed too hard almost.
Or we think, how do we do it?
So how do we look at thenumbers and how do we do that?
And sometimes, you know, imagine needing,imagine we didn't have the numbers.
(22:57):
Imagine we didn't have the reservations.
It was all on paper.
We didn't want contact anybody.
You could still do something.
Like to make the, to makethis work without the numbers.
The numbers just drive the accountability.
They just, they justput it front and center.
But it's what we've always done at theheart of a, of, of a restaurant operator.
(23:18):
When you really care, how do wereally look after that person?
But then how, you know, but howdo we then make that scalable?
It isn't reinventing certainthings or reinventing it.
What it is doing is, is making itinto a process and a system, um, so
(23:38):
that we can kind of week in, week out,make it a business as usual practice.
But, um, but yeah, it's uh, certainly,it's certainly, I see these KPIs and
I go, all of them, all of those KPIsget better a lot better very quickly
when more people are coming back in.
(23:59):
Because more people, the peoplecoming back in and these are numbers
before we've even done anything.
So you look at that pipeline again, thesecond visit, third visit, fourth visit.
They are average spending between 18and 25% more before we've done anything.
So people coming back intoyour restaurant, who are who?
Well, the people who aren't comingfirst time when they do come back.
(24:23):
They're, they're,they're more comfortable.
They know the menu, theyknow the people a little bit.
They spend more naturally.
So all this driving, how dowe get our spend head up?
How do we get our spend head up?
You know, how do we sell there?
How do we do that?
You know, you know, someone wants abottle of Prosecco, so we're trying
to sell 'em a bottle of crystal.
You know, how do we just like,you know, it's horrible service in
it Organically goes up by gettinga second visit, a third visit.
(24:48):
So that solves that.
You know, your margins get better,your labor percentages get better.
It's easy to serve those people, and wedon't have to move the dial that much.
We don't have to move it that much.
We not talking about like 50, youknow, percent growth in this area.
We talk, we're talking about 5% nof the dial compounds through those
second time, third time, fifth time.
(25:13):
How much better is it to servesomebody when you know them, when
you got, how much easier is it?
How much do they enjoy it?
More?
How much then you can play?
So, yeah, it's, it's it with our teamsthat we don't just kind of celebrate
these movements when we're tracking it.
We celebrate it with the guests as well.
(25:34):
If we can, you know, without it beingweird, you know, that, that they've come
back, this is the third time back in.
It's like, really go tofucking town on those guys.
'cause, 'cause, uh, threevisits in a year, they are
right for four, five or six.
Come back to already three times then.
By the other way, another thing theydo is they bring back more people.
(25:56):
So, so they start off,you know, first time DERs.
I looked at a restaurant today, 3.2.
Second, 2, 3, 4.
They're at 3.7 15% increase.
They haven't even done anything yet.
So naturally people who are, whoalready liked you first time, you
didn't engineer that return, butthey're coming back already, are
(26:18):
already bringing about 15% more.
Yeah.
In the, in the covers people,people love to share something
that they feel is special.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
That's the thing about the market.
So one of the other myths islike, this is a marketing problem.
Guest retention is a marketing problem.
Massive, massive myth.
Yeah.
Marketing and operations historicallyfor, you know, I can go about years of,
(26:41):
of being like battling with each other.
If you're in a big company,potentially it's like marketing.
Do this job operations, screw it up.
Put this menu in operations Screw Don't
Change because what, whatoperations need to do is facilitate.
(27:01):
And this personalization profilingyou, you, you know, understanding
who the guests are, this kind ofyour ideal guest avatar, where
they live, the local locality.
You know, this should support thenext, the, the post visit where you can
reach out to them with personalizationand, you know, understand who you are.
(27:22):
And I, I, I was talking to a guy.
Last week who works for Amazon,um, in the uk, works for Amazon.
Quite a, quite a highprofile job with them.
And he was out at a Wellknown restaurantgroup and they're pretty good.
And he said, he goes, these are really,he was telling me they have meetings
there once a month and he goes backin there and the restaurant, he sits
down in the restaurant and they go, um.
(27:43):
Ah, uh, Mr. Thompson, um, your, you, youhave the, the, the nine ounce sirloin
cooked this with this sauce last time.
Is that what you wanted?
And he goes, that's amazing.
And uh, and I go, that's good.
Amazing.
Is, uh, hi Mr. Thompson.
How's Francesca?
How's Annabel?
Hey, you know, how's my daughter?
How's my wife?
How's it, you know?
(28:04):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That might make me go, that's shit.
You know, that, and, and it's thesame process, but it's just, you
know, it's just about positioning.
Pushing back.
What does good look?
That's good to them.
And that's what this, this is what I do,you know, with, with, um, with operators
is, is they've got a thing, they've gota platform, they've got a reservation.
(28:26):
If they've got whateverthey're doing, I push back.
Can we do it better?
Can we do it better?
Can we do it?
Can, is that good enough?
Can we do that better?
Can we do that better?
And it's just, that's what, you just gothrough that kind of process with people
and it's amazing what happens when.
You know, we, we, one of the steps that,like the framework steps that we have
is, um, it's no grow echo with this.
(28:46):
So no is about, is about diagnosingthe gaps, understanding the guest,
defining the upside, building the plan.
But that's a real, really inwardlooking at what you are doing
in terms of guest retention.
And what comes outta that islike, is when they, when I get,
you know, when I work with.
And get to really inwardly, inwardly lookat what they're doing and their people.
(29:07):
So it's not just about the gueststhere, it's about the people.
Um, it's about their, you know,perhaps their platform set as well.
But yes, and also about the gueststhat it's like, it's amazing what,
what else you fix while you are doingthis, you know, in terms of development
and engagement and actual managerswho, who are like on the fence about
their job going, oh shit, we got so.
(29:31):
And we've got this common goal.
And, and by the way, it's, uh, as abyproduct, it's developing you into a
serious professional restaurant manager.
You know, and before it was aboutcompliance and this and all tick boxes
stuff, but, but this is like, youcould take this anywhere, you know,
because this is looking after guests.
This is like, this is like top,top, quality restaurant management,
(29:54):
professional restaurant management,in whatever situation you are.
Don't get me wrong on this as well.
You don't have to be a, the Ritz orHighend, you know, or anything like that.
Some of the greatest experiences are whenthe guy surprises you and it's five, you
know, you that end someone does something.
That is for, you know, thatto me is like, that's the
(30:16):
absolute goal when that happens.
simon (30:19):
So what, what you're bringing to my brain is a couple of things, but
number one, for me, I, every, throughoutthis whole conversation, I've been
trying to figure it out and now I got it.
This reminds me of like my favoritebartender, my old fashioned barkeeper,
right when I was 20 he was easily 60.
(30:39):
So this is the kind of guy where he,he's, he's got a bar and you know,
he, from, from his spot, he can lookout and he can see the front door.
He sees me coming, I comethrough the front door.
He addresses me by name.
By the time I like to sit on thefar back, spot away from the door,
I don't really wanna be talkedto when I'm sitting at the bar.
(31:00):
And so I walk all the way and bythe time I'm all the way back there,
he's got a glass of water, he'sgot my beer, he's got my whiskey.
And then he goes around to the otherside of the bar and he grabs the
newspaper and it, the newspaper is there.
And by the time I've sat down, he'sdelivering that newspaper and when we talk
earlier, we were talking about the basics.
(31:22):
It's like the fundamentals ofgreat customer management are,
have always been there, but we'veforgotten so much about that.
I haven't seen a bartender dothat in so many years, man.
Yeah.
Like, it just, it makes me go, oh, where,where, how do we, he does that, how
(31:42):
do we go back and teach that from theoperations level right before we You ever
get to like the data, right, because it'sthe fundamentals, you know, it's, it's.
It is the cook who looks atthe ticket that comes up and
it says Mr. Thompson on it.
And you know that Mr.Thompson likes his steak.
(32:05):
So rare.
It's still mooing, right?
Yeah.
It's that, it's it's takingthe time to, to remember the
Ewan (32:12):
Yeah.
The preference.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
But, but what we, what do we have now is.
We've got this computer system thatsits in our restaurant that allows us
to capture those preferences on market.
It's just what we do about it.
And it's like, so you first time time youcome in, I've got half empty restaurant.
(32:34):
It boils my.
Pissed when I, I get sat on a horribletable and it's a restaurant table, but
if someone doesn't go, which table?
Which table?
You know, where would you like to sit?
Just where would you like to sit?
I know, you know, it's threeo'clock in the afternoon.
You're not coming, noone else is coming in.
Where would you like to sit?
And I pick my favorite table.
And on that reservation platform,they can put, he picked that table.
That's his favorite table.
(32:56):
You know, that is a really simplething to start with you when
you, that's the simplest right.
simon (33:01):
Yeah.
That leads me to my next question.
Are you ready?
How about if you tell me too, likeobviously there is a broad spectrum
of things to be done with your clientsand uh, to, to help them move along.
But what can you say to the listenersof Culinary Mechanic that is gonna
like, give us, I don't know, giveus two things that are sort of the,
(33:24):
the fundamentals to get going on.
Really working to retain those guests.
What are the, what are the, likethe first two things that you
Ewan (33:33):
kind of start with?
Well, let's just assume thatwe've got the team on board.
Yeah, we've got 'em excited by it.
We've got 'em involved in building aplan and I mean, getting them involved.
Don't try and build a plan withoutsomebody in your team, without as many
people as possible in your teaming whatyou're already doing and pushing back.
Um, they've gotta buy into it.
So that's one of the first mistakes.
(33:54):
People, uh, operators, you know, wanta quick fix, jump to tactics, and they,
and they jump to tactics very quicklyand it's generally marketing stuff.
And maybe a better service criteria,but, um, it is, yeah, it's so important
that, that we understand what ishappening our, in our businesses.
And that's, you know, that,that's first and foremost.
(34:16):
But I think I'll give you two,I'll give you two, um, one's.
You'll, you should, or, or most peopledo have some kind of order of service or
service criteria in their restaurants.
We are gonna hit X, Y, and Z. Yeah.
We are gonna, we're gonna, you know,we're gonna set a table either x
(34:38):
amount of time, we're gonna serve it.
This, that, in this sort of time.
Time, and it's all transactional time.
That doesn't need to change.
You can still do your steps,but you've gotta transform it
into emotional intelligence.
So I, I put this into, into fourstages within your service criteria.
It's welcome.
(34:59):
So create this sense of belonging.
Like guests when they come in arelike, people are nervous about coming,
especially if you're busy restaurant.
They're not like, they might pretend tobe like, fine about it, but we wanna make
people feel as easy, easy as possiblewhen they come into your restaurant.
That could be done well before theycome in, as we talked about, you know,
(35:20):
but, but, but, but that, but top tipby somebody who's gonna be there on
the night that you are coming in.
So that might be a host if you kind of.
You and I'm gonna can't wait to see youtomorrow or on Tuesday or whatever it is.
Um, uh, we've got areally good table for you.
I'll see you at the front door.
I'm gonna be there, orsomething like that.
(35:41):
And then that, so that welcomesuddenly is an extension of, you know,
not just coming through the door.
It's like, it happened like two days ago.
And then I recognize that person.
How good do I feel when I come in there?
They recognize me.
You know, I mean, you'regetting really shit hot.
Then if you kind of social media.
But you can get to that end ndegree on this if you want to.
(36:04):
But, but, so that welcome is, you know,people talk, put a welcome in a service
criteria, and it's like smiled and we satyou down and maybe we asked where, where
you wanna start, something like that.
But that is not that, that's, that'sa, a welcome or as a. Welcome.
Well, you know what I mean?
It's not there, so that's good.
The next thing is, you know,from, you know, from within this
(36:24):
emotional journey, is, is, is guide.
I call it guide.
So this is about, um,
great, if you're gonna segment,if you can segment your guests.
That's a really good thing to do.
So you might have first time ininfrequent diners, you might have
second visitors if you can tag themon a, onto a reservation system.
(36:46):
So, so you know, and then morefrequent users and then like,
it might be like bronze, silver,gold, platinum, or whatever you
wanna, whatever you wanna call it.
But there's a little bit ofwork involved in doing that.
But everyone can do that.
But then you change your service alittle bit to guide, to guide people.
So first time in diet, first time diet.
I'm gonna talk 'em through the menu.
I'm gonna give them the provenance ofthe, of the, you know, the restaurant.
(37:09):
I'm gonna tell 'em what I likeand what they, you know, I'm
gonna, I'm not gonna sell to them.
I'm not gonna sell anything to them.
I'm gonna show them, you know?
Right.
That's a, that's a, that'san emotional connection.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnamake a point of not trying to, you
know, this, this is why spend Headis a metric is, is a, is a little
(37:30):
bit of a, you know, dicey one.
Just driving spend head means pushysales and it means trying to get someone
to, you know, rewarding, pushy salesis very damaging to guest retention.
You know, 'cause some people don'tdo it very well, but guiding someone.
But let's understand you on yourfirst visit, you know, all my
(37:51):
entire agenda here is about bringingyou back into the restaurant.
It's about showing you what we dogive, showing you the offer, showing
you the menu, you know, allowing youto pick, giving you, making you look
good in front of other people by not,you know, by not trying to, you know,
talk about a wine that no one's everheard about or like, or, or correcting
(38:14):
your pronunciation because you couldn'tsay the, the long word or whatever.
It's, it's about, it's aboutpreempting that so you feel good.
In front people andeveryone, and that adjusting.
Someone's come in once or twice tosomebody who's come in three or four.
They need a different level of service.
(38:35):
And if I could say to you on, onmy pre-shift, you know, you've
got four tables, two of them arebronze, three of them are silver.
This is what we're gonna do,you know, this is what you do.
You know, it's, it's there.
It's like, it's like we're gonna adjustit slightly and, uh, more safe for the
bronze and the guidance stuff up front.
Uh, and it also allows yourservice criteria to be adapted
a. You know, we regimented,
(39:01):
don't.
He don't, he don't care.
He knows, he knows he's all doingthat, that and that, and that,
that we don't care any of it.
So it just kind of, you know,empowers the team a little bit more.
Um, and then
simon (39:13):
at that point, I'm sorry to cut you off, but at that point it,
it's about easing all of the friction,like removing the friction of that.
Right?
It's if you, you're at platinum,it's about how, how seamlessly
can we get what we know youwant or what he knows he wants.
Totally,
Ewan (39:30):
totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes that's.
Like you, you, by that stage,you know that guest, so you
know, he's finishing off.
He's not, he's not, he's not,he's not asking for that top up.
You are, you're just doing it.
Do you know?
And, and do you know?
You, you're just doing it and if youget it wrong, it doesn't go on the bill
that's at that, that level when they'recoming that amount of time, you know?
(39:51):
And he's like, oh, no, I can't have that.
Okay.
It doesn't go on the bill.
I mean, we've got, because itis just, you know what I mean?
It's one of those things where you are,you are preempting those guys as much
as you can do, but it's, yeah, you'vegot, you get that with, you know,
you're gonna get that with confidence,aren't you, with knowing somebody.
And it's like, like I was saying, ifyou know people that coming to the
restaurant, how much easier is that?
So, yeah.
(40:11):
So, so guide is that sortof section then personalize.
Um, and this is, this is about profilingand or setting up being able to profile.
So like we talked about before.
It's that, um, how to make eachexperience feel uniquely tailored.
That's, that's the bestway to put it there.
So, um, and, and I can't, Ican't necessarily do that with a
(40:34):
first time diner with someone'scoming, but, but I could set it
up for the next time really well.
I can have a manager talk tothat table and I could have
reached out to them potentially.
So I'm not talking aboutyou got a hundred covers.
I'm not talking about reaching outto a hundred bookings at night.
I'm not talking about reaching outto a hundred cover hundred bookings.
It's like you might pick five or six thatyou do it and you follow this process
(40:57):
because we're all talking about is 5%.
Remember?
To get six figure returns components.
So, so you want people perhaps onlocality, so you're not a tourist, so
you are gonna, you can get 'em back.
So you need to find out this information.
Um, and it might be that, you know, theperson that reached out to them, hands
over the manager to them and say, oh, thisis, this is, you know, Steve, our manager,
(41:18):
um, uh, just wanted to introduce you.
You know, they've got a connection.
Then they're back at thetable, they're leaving a.
If when you book again, just, just,just message me, I'll put it in for you.
Now that, that doesn't have tobe a, that doesn't have to be a,
you know, his own phone number.
That could be a, a cell phone ormobile phone number that's, that's
assigned to the restaurant or whatever.
(41:39):
It's, make it feel personalized.
I, that's work for anybody.
The point is the emotionalconnections are have Oh, that'll
simon (41:46):
work.
Are you kidding?
Yeah.
If, if I, if I know that I can justdial or text a number and I don't have
to go through the process and it's donefor me and it, it makes me, again, it's
Ewan (41:58):
that feel special thing.
Yeah, totally.
Oh, what, I mean, it might, itwill work for the guest, might
not work for the restaurant.
The restaurant would need tomake it work kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll find a way, man.
Yeah.
But, but that's, but that's the, that'swhat all I used to do as an operator.
All I used to do phone calls, youknow, before, you know, it was like
you and oh, can we get a table?
Can we get a table?
You know, can we, that's how I wasrunning a restaurant, you know, it's
(42:19):
like, call, yeah, just message me.
Just message me.
And then you'd know, you'd leaveperhaps your busiest nights of the week.
You know, you'd have two tables becauseyou know, somebody who was a massive
regular was gonna message your last minuteand you're gonna be able to get 'em in.
And you know, that's the kind ofmentality of the thought process that,
you know, that that sort of inspiresthis, these sort of conversations.
Yeah.
It's just doing, it's just doing what,you know, what, what a phenomenal
(42:44):
kind of experience would look liketo, to a manager trying to, you
know, look after these regulars.
So yeah, that's, and what doessix stars look like, right?
Yeah, totally.
And the, and the last thingis this is kind of like,
appreciate is like the foresight.
So welcome, guide, personalized,appreciate, and appreciate is
leaving this lasting impression.
(43:06):
A last impression is not a goodbye.
It starts at main course.
It starts at main course down.
That impression is from whenthat main course goes down all
the way till when they leave.
It, it is not like a, a friendlygoodbye and everyone, you know,
a couple of people say goodbye.
It's like, it's thatemotional connection there.
(43:27):
It's making sure thateverything's absolutely spot on
and actually caring about that.
It's perhaps a little, you know, youmight have a toolkit in the restaurant
that you use like a. Wine or a littlefood taster or something like that.
Perhaps using on that table or, you know,something, something that you, you know,
you thought, you thought you thoughtthrough, and it's having a conversation
(43:48):
so personal that that, that perhaps youcan then use in a communication later on.
And I don't mean that being creepy.
I mean just, you know, I hope you enjoyedthe show after, I hope you enjoyed gonna
see that, you know, whatever they weregonna do or whatever, perhaps football
team or, you know, they were visitingtheir family or whatever that was.
It's just something you cansay, hope that went well.
(44:08):
Um, you know, you know, great to see you.
You know, and, and that's the,that's the follow up with them.
And then that makes that, you know, that.
You know, perhaps out your system.
Suddenly then they look at thator the 60 day one, it's like,
are they really, they cared.
You know, suddenly thatmeans something, doesn't it?
And you, and actually youcan get really serious.
(44:31):
You can adapt those kind of.
I'm sure AI will be able to really likesystemize that at some point as well,
where it takes your reservation data atsome point and it puts it into your, your
marketing and that's gonna be happeningsoon, but you don't need to do that.
But did all that make sense that,uh, that's, that's six, that's
it totally makes sense to me.
simon (44:52):
Can I just say two things?
Number one, I love the difference between.
American English and English.
English or UK English because shithot and boiling my piss are two of
the best things I've heard all week.
Uh, 'cause I don't feel like we asAmericans have things that, that,
(45:12):
that just are as evocative as that.
But I'm sure we do.
Um, well gosh.
Well thank you.
Thank you for sharing that last bit.
'cause I think that it's.
It, it really reinforces to me howthis can be a very basic part of
your, uh, of a restaurant strategyto continue to build their sales
(45:33):
and to, to grow their business.
Right.
It is, it is.
The basics just kindturned up a notch, right?
Yeah.
It's, it's so much of the fundamentalsof hospitality, but really take
into a, you said it earlier too.
Um.
It's almost the weaponizationof great questions.
(45:54):
Using those questions to really honein on, on amplifying touch points.
Yeah.
Ewan (46:02):
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that good enough?
Is that good enough?
Is that, is that just that pushing back?
But do you know what?
That's not easy to do by yourself.
It isn't, you know, in fact, in fact, it'svirtually impossible to do by yourself.
That's why you, you know, that'swhy the accountability side of
these things is, and that's why yougotta work with somebody else today.
And I'm not talking about necessarilyworking with me, I'm talking about
working with your own teams, you know,to, you know, but, but just understanding
(46:26):
where, what good looks like, what youare doing now and where you want to
get to and how we gonna get there.
You know, that's not a oneperson job in any anyway.
You could do it, but, but it's, it's,you gotta get everybody involved.
And, and, and that's where it's like.
simon (46:41):
For me, it feels like the greatest exercise to be done at a team meeting.
Right?
Yeah.
It that, that is like how here, hereare the, here are 10 touch points.
Start with number one.
How do we make that better?
Get two, three ideas.
Number two, how do we do that better?
And really, because I mean,oftentimes in a restaurant
(47:04):
you've got restaurant or a bar.
I'm working with a pub right now,and all I can think of is we're
talking about growing their business.
And I've got a really neatconversation to have with 'em tomorrow.
I guarantee you, you know, juststarting to reformulate a little bit
of what we've been talking about, butI think it's like, let's map that.
(47:26):
Like start with what are the touchpoints in your standard journey?
'cause it's, there aren'treservations in this place, right?
Yeah.
Um, but that doesn't mean thatthere's really any less data because.
It's there.
Yeah.
Know from the credit cards
Ewan (47:41):
on down.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so that's what I mean about notgetting into, not getting into the,
we talked.
Could be, can be, can be, you know,enhanced without knowing your numbers.
You know, it's, it's, itobviously makes it easy to track.
It makes it done, but you'll see thenumbers, you'll see it in, you know,
(48:02):
in other ways you'll see it in likeyour, you know, your KPIs and you'll
see it in your, hopefully in your sales.
And as you say, you can track things thesedays, like credit cards and you know that,
that kind of spend to see guess frequency.
So there are other ways, but.
But there's, there's also a wholeworld out there that doesn't involve
the numbers, that just amplifiesand makes the business better.
(48:25):
So, yeah, don't, don't,I mean, from a day-today
simon (48:28):
tactic, I, I was just thinking what if every time a manager had
to check out a server, they justlooked at them and said, so how many
repeat guests did you have tonight?
Exactly, exactly right.
Like, because if it became, if itbecame something that was important
to the manager as which then become,which they, by asking that question
(48:50):
every single time and really gettingpeople excited about it, it becomes
Ewan (48:54):
important.
simon (48:55):
Right?
Yeah.
So
Ewan (48:55):
talk to, yeah, so, so we cashing out, talk to me
about table two, table three.
Where are table two from?
What's their background?
What's the story, you know?
Yeah.
But by the way, I'm expecting themanager to know some of this as well.
The most.
Yeah, the, obviously the server and theservice team, they are, you know, the
absolutely Inspira, you know, and they're,you know, they're a really important role
(49:18):
to obviously to get that right and havethat relationship and, you know, but a
manager has, has, has so much impact.
You know, people wanna know the manager.
People want to, you know, be connectedto the manager and if the managers
like can get involved at a levelthat, that emotional, that's gonna
be, that's gonna be another levelpowerful, you know, to the server.
(49:38):
So, um, so yeah, it's importantthat they know as well.
So the connection that I find, dependingon the size of the business is that.
Is that the above site manager?
How are they commun, how are theydrilling this down with their team?
And then how the generalmanager kind of filters it in.
But listen, that's,that's a bigger business.
Not everyone's got abovesite managers and all that.
(49:58):
It's it.
It might just be threeof you working in a bar.
How can we make this, how can we makethis like this experience quite better?
You know, you can just, yeah.
It's fun, isn't it?
It's fun.
Even talking about it,it's even better doing it.
Absolutely.
It's even better.
It's even better seeing the results of it.
simon (50:16):
Well, I think the, for me, the biggest reframe is, is what I wrote right
here, and it says the number one job ishow do you get the guest to come back?
Like that's a reframe thatnot everybody thinks about.
And I think that that's,that's a number one.
Like that's the number one shift, right?
(50:36):
If you Oh yeah.
If you start to, to spend, to getfanatical about how you get your people,
how you get your guests to come back.
I think you're right.
Like that's gotta compound becauseyou have so many guests coming in.
If you just change the numberof repeats, that's phenomenal.
I love it.
Yeah.
But such, such a small amount
Ewan (50:55):
as well.
Simon's big, just a small amount.
Compounds and compounds and it's serious.
Totally numbers.
simon (51:04):
Cool, man.
Well thank you so much for coming to playwith us in my little sandbox of the world.
I, I really appreciate it.
And to all y'all out there,have a great day you, and
I'll catch you next time, man.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
(51:27):
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
simon (00:31):
Joining me today is you and Thompson.
This company is HospitalityBenchmark Solutions.
We're gonna call it HBS 'causethat's a mouthful, brother.
Welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
Thanks.
I'm doing great, man.
I'm up here in Seattle and thesunshine has finally come out.
Uh, so it's, you know, I, I'm,I'm preparing for 61 days of
(00:53):
sunshine and then it'll go away.
So it's all
Ewan (00:56):
good.
Don't come to the uk, Simon.
Don't come to the uk.
You're never gonna get61 days of sunshine.
simon (01:03):
Uh, I think 61 is actually in a row.
Is is actually like stretching.
It might only be 41, but that's okay.
Well, like I said, welcometo Culinary Mechanic.
Um, let's just jump into it, man.
Tell me how you got, like, how'dyou get into this industry?
Um, how, you know, how
Ewan (01:22):
did it
simon (01:22):
all begin for you?
Ewan (01:24):
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's go, let's, let's, let's.
I try not to like, givethe too long a version.
Um, but I can remember, uh, 16 yearsold working in, uh, my friend's
dad's bar, um, glass collecting,um, for, you know, two summers.
(01:44):
So I got, got him, got him from there,and then at weekends when I was at school.
So it started right back then.
And uh, and then when I.
I went to university, I leftprobably sooner than I should
have done in my parents' eyes.
And I went to work with, um, uh, a, a guyin my hometown and he ran a restaurant
(02:07):
and I just fell in love with it then.
And, um, I've kind of neverlooked back since, really?
But, uh, yeah, it's right in myblood from, from like, really, you
know, where we go 30, 30 odd years.
simon (02:21):
Nice.
So is it, is it the community aspect?
Is it the adrenaline aspect?
Is it,
Ewan (02:29):
uh, you know what I do, what we'll get into what I do in a bit,
but, um, now I'm not working weekin and week out within a restaurant.
I miss the Saturday nights.
I miss that.
I miss that being, not being able to.
Thinking you're gonna screw it all up.
And how can we get like 300 covers intonight and we've never done that before.
(02:51):
And you make it work and the peoplearound you make it work and you know
it's high, like high blood pressure.
You fall out your makeup, youfall out your makeup, someone
absolutely screws something up.
You hide it, you make.
It's all that, it's, it'slike really all that.
(03:12):
And I miss, miss those bits.
But, you know, um, I suppose theother thing as well is the, the guest,
it's always been about the guest.
Surprising the guest, you know, doing thethings that, where you get a reaction.
That's just that, that's, that'sjust giving me a buzz for years.
And, uh, and I kind oftake that into this day.
Really nice.
simon (03:33):
All right, so.
How does that, how does the, so from allof that, I, I wrote down high intensity.
Right?
I think that that's what, that's whatone of the things that I love about
the, the restaurant industry foryears was like a little bit of that
adrenaline rush on that Saturday night.
Um, but also just the intensity oflike, the importance of doing, the
(03:57):
importance of doing a lot of things well.
Right.
How does that translate to.
What you're doing now and tellus, tell us a bit about HBS.
Ewan (04:08):
So h Yeah, so what I do now really is, um, is, is quite simple.
Like the way I see it all, nearlyall restaurants are sitting on
six figure growth opportunities.
So just don't realize it'sburied in guest retention.
So what I do now is help restaurants.
Engineer more repeat bookings.
(04:30):
And we do that without discountingand offers and ad spend.
So it's really about phenomenal guestexperience and emotional connections
with guests and, you know, make,allowing restaurants to understand
that, you know, they've got areal challenge in retaining guests
already in their business while they.
I constantly go out lookingfor new, acquire new guests.
(04:52):
So that's what we do.
That's what we do now.
That's what I do now it, I startedthe company in the wake of COVID.
Um, okay.
And it was.
All about profitability, salesmaximization, labor efficiency, all
that, you know, operational excellence,people development and management.
And it, and it really still is.
(05:13):
Um, you know, and those thingsreally do make a difference.
And, you know, some people you canhelp exponentially and some people,
you know, no one's perfect, but there'snever not a return on investment on.
I kept coming back to the same thing andgot re obsessed with cement from that
I've had for 25, 30 years, and that'sguest retention and, and how we can
(05:38):
look after guests and all those thingsthat I was doing in profitability,
in margin work, in labor efficiency.
You know, the numbers kept, I keptlooking at these numbers of how many
guests are actually coming back.
Fixes all those problems ifyou get more guests who already
use your business to come back.
(06:00):
And when you start drilling downon the numbers and you know, and
it's, and I do all the time, and,uh, it's frightening that you think
you are running this restaurant.
You think you're seeing regulars, andof course you are because perhaps the
same, but it's the same few peopleyou'll see time and time again.
(06:21):
95% of them and I see are notcoming back, and it's about that.
People in this, every business outsidehospitality will have a pipeline.
It's a pipeline of sales andrevenue that's coming in and in
hospitality, we don't have it.
(06:42):
We don't see it, and we've got itin our, you know, everybody now has
an electronic reservation system.
You know, they've got it intheir, in their buildings.
And a, you know, if youare running a restaurant.
Hundred percent of your revenuescoming through this machine.
Yeah.
And it's about unpicking the data out ofthere and looking at it in a way going,
(07:02):
holy god, these people aren't coming back.
What?
Why are these people coming back?
And, and working it throughas like, as a, as thinking it.
Yeah.
Thinking it as a, as abusiness, a pipeline.
How can we influence the top ofthis pipeline right down to the
people who are coming back, 6,7, 8, 9, 10, 12 times a year?
Plus, you know, you go out ofa regular who's in every week,
(07:24):
you know, that's the holy grail.
Yeah.
Really.
So, yeah.
Um, yeah.
So that's what we do.
I,
simon (07:31):
I love it.
I think it, it, it just triggers mybrain a little bit as you're talking
about all this, because I've alwaysloved how two people can take the
same sets of data and come out.
Like on different ends of things, right?
The very same data that you look at asfar as, uh, retention and what makes
(07:53):
a, a return guest is all the same stuffthat I look at to, to then hone in on,
like how, like how good are the dishesthat we're putting, how profitable are
those dishes that we're putting out?
Um.
When you start to look at, you know,people's feeling and perception of value,
(08:13):
like, is that chicken dish overpriced?
And that's why like chicken iseverything in so many markets, right?
But yet only a few people order it.
Are we overpriced?
Is it not that good?
But it's, it's just allthose little data points.
Um, I I, that's the first thing, right?
Like I just, I love that like youcan see this huge set of data and
(08:34):
nowadays it's like, it's all there.
Everybody, everybody's creating thesesets of data, and I think that more
slowly, ever so slowly, the, thehospitality industry as a whole, the
restaurants and and whatnot are finding,like they're finding that data and
it's been there for a long time, butit's like there's so few that are truly
(08:57):
utilizing what they have in front of the.
Ewan (09:00):
Yeah.
And I, yeah, there's lot to kind of unpackthere and there's a lot of ities in what
you're saying and uh, and I'm almostlike, it's not about like, yes, we use
the data, we use the, we use the data.
We use the data.
We, we, we, you know,you know, but I don't.
I don't wanna push that onto somebody tosay, you need to be an expert analyst,
(09:21):
you know, analyst to go through this.
You know, it's just about knowing whereto look sometimes and, and where to start.
And, and you know, you talked a minute agoabout, um, about what you do in terms of
like a chicken dish and profitability and,and, and you know, perhaps how that dish
is plated up and the margin work on that.
You know, and I look atthat going, how's that?
(09:43):
How is that emotionallymaking that guest feel?
Are they, are they just not gonnasay something or are they gonna go,
that's really, you know, are theyjust gonna, you know, probably eat it.
Go.
That was lovely.
Don't come back.
You know, that was, you know, how dowe find out as an operator how that,
you know, what can we do in serviceto make sure that it isn't, how go,
(10:03):
how's everything with your food, guys?
You know it, that isthe worst question ever.
It just, yeah, it's okay.
You know, that's the, you know, weneed to find, how's your chicken?
Is that, is that how you wanted it?
You know, it's just those changing,like little steps like that
make a huge, huge difference andyou, and, and are very scalable.
And it's just how we look at, youknow, how we look at a service, um,
(10:26):
from a guest experience point of view.
As opposed to a are we just, do we wanna,do we actually wanna know the answer?
Do we wanna know theanswer to the question?
And, and ultimately that's what I do.
We just weaponize it and we just putit into a, you know, to a scalable
point, and we push back and wequestion the entire guest journey.
(10:48):
So the guest journey isn't whenthey walk through the door,
it's how do they find you?
How do they book?
How did that experience go?
How did they.
2003. I'm just thinkingof the, I think 2004.
Yeah, 2003 open.
So open.
Don't anyone else around.
(11:09):
We were on paper reservation,um, you know, paper reservations.
We were in a busy restaurant.
We had three people answering thephones, you know, throughout the day.
It was just manic ring
reservations.
That created a, a customer journey.
So how that person was on the phonecreated emotional connection because
(11:33):
you could differentiate yourself toanybody else that they phoned off.
So you have this like alreadythis connection nowadays.
I mean, I do the, I run the analysis.
It's, you know, depending on whereyou are in the, in the uk, but it's
gonna be the same worldwide, really.
Probably about.
You know, somewhere between80 and 90% are booking online.
And, and so you are losing that.
(11:55):
That's, that's oneconnection you are losing.
So how do you make thatexperience phenomenal?
How do you make it easy for themto, to do what they, they want?
Do you know the Amazon effect?
You know, sometimes you orderoff Amazon so quickly you realize
you use the wrong bloody cardand you know, but it'd be late.
That's what, that's whatrestaurant, that's what
booking a restaurant should be.
(12:15):
Even if, you know, sometimes youtake credit card details off people
and it's, you know, so you've gottago, you know, we do that in the uk,
you know, to hold the reservations,but how to make that so easy.
And then also how tocancel it really easily.
How is this experience, youknow, because people, you know,
how do we make that really easy?
Rather than they've gotta callthe restaurant, they've gotta
go through 20 hoops to do that.
We, you know, it's everything make,you know, it needs to be primed to
(12:39):
think, God, God, they're really good.
They're really good and I dunnowhy, but they're just really good.
Yeah.
And then you can take that guestjourney, you know, and we, and we
look, everyone's a bit different.
Everyone's got different, you, youknow, resources and labor resources.
They can sort of, you know, hostand reception managers or not,
or they just owner operated.
(13:00):
But how can I make that guestexperience like even better, you know?
And, and that's notabout boiling the ocean.
We're not trying to, Ican't say to a restaurant.
We're gonna hit everybody who comesthrough the door and what you need,
you know, you don't need that.
You know, I've, I, I look at thenumbers in guest retention and 5%
(13:20):
we're talking one or two bookings.
Retaining guests is, is sixfigure numbers, you know, a day.
It's not, it's, it justcompounds and compounds.
When you, when you get this pipelinekind of really focused on, you know,
turning this one time visits to two.
You know, I mean, it's like you, youknow, you can see it, you can already
think you, you know, because they comeback two times, three times, four times,
(13:43):
because 95% of them are only coming once.
So let's get 'em in this, in this process.
But, you know, you can, you can,you, you know, the get that,
that, that, that guest journey isso influenced at so many stages.
And now imagine I sent youa imagine, I, you know, your
first time in my restaurant.
(14:04):
And I sent you a text and go, hiSimon, it's Wan, um, we've got the best
table for you tonight outta the blue.
Can't wait to see you tomorrow.
I'm gonna be on shift.
So I've sent that to you.
Fact, what a point of difference, Alice.
Just, something's so simple.
It's free, it's completely, and wedo that for, you know, we, we, we do
something different for somebody else.
It's like, do you know?
Hi Simon.
You know, there's, uh, there's this eventgoing on in, in, uh, in Seattle tonight.
(14:27):
Do you know about it?
I see you are not from, I see yourbook from somewhere else, but,
but after your dinner, you know,there's, uh, there's this going on.
Have you thought about it?
It's free, it's nothing.
It's just, and there's hundredsof those that you can do that.
Yeah.
You have to everybody.
It's just like, that is a point ofdifference to me and my emotional
connection with you starts and Ihaven't even walked in your restaurant.
(14:49):
I love that.
Make sense?
simon (14:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
(15:14):
notes to connect with me directly.
Uh, you know, I, I think that.
Um, I think that for me, like from beingthe guy in the back of the house and it's
really about like producing the same foodover and over and over, I don't think
that for a lot of my career I ever reallythought about the full guest journey.
(15:35):
But now it's just, yeah.
It's, it's so fascinating to, to say.
How many touch points arethere in that guest journey,
and what does that look like?
Right?
Uh, what is it?
Um, Airbnb, they talk aboutlike, what is a 10, like five
star is the standard, right?
Like that's the big end of the scale.
(15:55):
We're gonna create a five star experience.
Well, they start talking aboutwhat is a, what is a 6, 7, 8.
9, 10, 9, 10 star experience, right?
And they, they kind of scale it upto be like, these are all the things
that you could expect from an eightstar experience from us that are,
that really are the, become thosepoint, those differentiating points.
(16:17):
So I think that.
I, I love that out, sort ofoutside thinking right to, to
an inside problem, you know?
Yeah.
Like it's, it's, it's as,it's as old as time, right?
Like, how do I get morepeople to come and Yeah.
For a lot of folks, it's.
It's, oh, I'm gonna give them goodfood, great food, great service.
(16:38):
And I think that, that for me is, youknow, the, the term in poker, right?
That's table stakes.
Like, that's the beginning.
You know, so finding all theseother ways to really influence
and, and I think as you said.
Connect emotionally with the guest.
Those,
Ewan (16:57):
so I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say something that you're
not gonna like now, Simon.
Okay.
Um, it's a, it's a common myth.
Guests will return if they enjoy it.
Like all our reviews are five stars.
Yeah.
You think you've done enough.
You think the food, youthink the food is enough.
You think the service food's good.
(17:17):
Good is not enough.
Yeah.
And when we talk.
Getting more people in.
I'm talking about gettingpeople who've already been in,
so it's not even new people.
And when you look at the numbers inthat, you know, when I talk about
sort of like say your let's, let'sgive it an actual kind of financial,
say you've got you running a, a, saya 1.5 million, so that's a $2 million
(17:41):
restaurant, you know, so what's that?
40, $40,000 a week?
Something like that might be.
Bookings.
So not covers, but individual bookings.
10,000 are, you know.
So how many of them do youthink are coming back Twice?
(18:01):
I'm telling you it's somewherebetween five, 600 are coming back
for a second visit outta 10,000.
Yeah, so, so that'swhere you are losing 95%.
So yeah.
So when we talk about getting new guestsin, we are on this constant treadmill.
Of, of, you know, maintaining a statusquo while food inflation goes up, labor
(18:25):
prices go up, you know, all these thingsare going up and you are trying to
stay, you know, with your head abovewater by, by getting your new guests.
But you, you've either gotta do twothings, get more new guests in, or put
your prices up, and I don't think wecan put our prices up anymore globally.
I think everybody's done that.
I mean, it's.
In the UK today, they're talking aboutfood inflation going up again this month.
(18:48):
You know, I mean, I, I can'tremember a month where it
didn't, you know, it's been, it'sabsolutely, it's absolutely insane.
So, so to, to maintain thisposition, we've gotta get
new people and new people in.
And what I'm saying is you do not, youdo, you keep doing that, keep doing that
as a, obviously that's what your model.
Let's just then keep doing thatwhile we focus on the, you know, the
(19:10):
95% or 90% who are walking out theback door who aren't coming back.
And we've done nothing about it, apartfrom send them a, a 30 day re-engagement
email, um, to an experience that wedidn't attach any emotional kind of
connection to in the first right.
So, good service, goodfood, good drink is.
(19:33):
The platform that allows you toemotionally connect with your guest,
but it doesn't facilitate that return.
You need to add someone else to that.
And you need to make someone actually,you know, be top of mind when they go.
Next time, where are we going?
Oh, we've got 30 places, 20places, 10 places in our head.
We've got this place in head becauseI actually know, I know Simon, uh,
(19:55):
I met the, you know, they reallydid this, they did this for me.
They got, he, he sent mea text message afterwards.
He, he gave me like a, a perceived wayof like booking by just messaging or
something, you know, just something,whatever that is, that emotionally
connected me to that restaurant.
Um, and as you say, itis not a new concept.
(20:17):
It is not a new, it is not a new thing.
It's just a, you know, sometimes Ithink we just, with all this kind of
brands and reopenings and everything.
Actually, what are we here for?
Why, why are we open?
What we do?
We here for the rest.
Why are we here?
We to look after people?
Let's just fucking dothat really, really well.
Um, and yeah, that's, that's, that's it.
simon (20:40):
It's so easy to get caught up in all the toys, all the, all the
new, and I, I think when I, when I'mtalking to operators, and I'm sure you
probably see this, I mean, you do, but.
The, the, the, almost the numberone thing I tell people is Stop,
like, stop everything for a minuteand let's talk about the basics.
(21:04):
Let's really nail the, let'sget so great at the simplest,
most basic parts of our job.
Right?
Um, you know, I, I definitely lookat execution in the restaurants
and, and like you and I arereally saying the same thing.
It's like food and beverage is a foodor food and beverage and service there.
(21:27):
The very basic operating things.
And so, so many times we think thatthat's gonna be the thing, right?
Yeah.
And I, I, I, I, there's so many otherpieces that, that have to be, like,
cranked up just a bit, you know?
And, and I, I just like, I like thefact that you're taking a look at the
things that a lot of folks aren't, right?
(21:50):
Yeah.
I think that's such a valuable piece.
Ewan (21:53):
I, yeah.
Yeah.
I think we are a little bit,but I think we we're not,
but we're not doing anything.
People don't, in their heart know already.
That is a thing.
They need to be lookingand, and you've only look.
Um, A KPI dashboard is always gonnahave marginalized, it's always gonna
have revenue, you know, position.
(22:14):
It's always gonna have labor percentages.
Also with labor, it's alwaysgonna have like reviews.
Now, actually, so there's those four,four things and, and there's a say
we, like, we've always done that.
We've, we all know thatwe want more guests.
We all hear the things about guestretention and, you know, and 5%.
(22:37):
You know, increasing retentioncan lead to problems of 25 to 95%.
Thank you.
Harvard Business School.
You know, we all, you know, we all knowthese are the right things to do, right?
But, but it deemed too hard almost.
Or we think, how do we do it?
So how do we look at thenumbers and how do we do that?
And sometimes, you know, imagine needing,imagine we didn't have the numbers.
(22:57):
Imagine we didn't have the reservations.
It was all on paper.
We didn't want contact anybody.
You could still do something.
Like to make the, to makethis work without the numbers.
The numbers just drive the accountability.
They just, they justput it front and center.
But it's what we've always done at theheart of a, of, of a restaurant operator.
(23:18):
When you really care, how do wereally look after that person?
But then how, you know, but howdo we then make that scalable?
It isn't reinventing certainthings or reinventing it.
What it is doing is, is making itinto a process and a system, um, so
(23:38):
that we can kind of week in, week out,make it a business as usual practice.
But, um, but yeah, it's uh, certainly,it's certainly, I see these KPIs and
I go, all of them, all of those KPIsget better a lot better very quickly
when more people are coming back in.
(23:59):
Because more people, the peoplecoming back in and these are numbers
before we've even done anything.
So you look at that pipeline again, thesecond visit, third visit, fourth visit.
They are average spending between 18and 25% more before we've done anything.
So people coming back intoyour restaurant, who are who?
Well, the people who aren't comingfirst time when they do come back.
(24:23):
They're, they're,they're more comfortable.
They know the menu, theyknow the people a little bit.
They spend more naturally.
So all this driving, how dowe get our spend head up?
How do we get our spend head up?
You know, how do we sell there?
How do we do that?
You know, you know, someone wants abottle of Prosecco, so we're trying
to sell 'em a bottle of crystal.
You know, how do we just like,you know, it's horrible service in
it Organically goes up by gettinga second visit, a third visit.
(24:48):
So that solves that.
You know, your margins get better,your labor percentages get better.
It's easy to serve those people, and wedon't have to move the dial that much.
We don't have to move it that much.
We not talking about like 50, youknow, percent growth in this area.
We talk, we're talking about 5% nof the dial compounds through those
second time, third time, fifth time.
(25:13):
How much better is it to servesomebody when you know them, when
you got, how much easier is it?
How much do they enjoy it?
More?
How much then you can play?
So, yeah, it's, it's it with our teamsthat we don't just kind of celebrate
these movements when we're tracking it.
We celebrate it with the guests as well.
(25:34):
If we can, you know, without it beingweird, you know, that, that they've come
back, this is the third time back in.
It's like, really go tofucking town on those guys.
'cause, 'cause, uh, threevisits in a year, they are
right for four, five or six.
Come back to already three times then.
By the other way, another thing theydo is they bring back more people.
(25:56):
So, so they start off,you know, first time DERs.
I looked at a restaurant today, 3.2.
Second, 2, 3, 4.
They're at 3.7 15% increase.
They haven't even done anything yet.
So naturally people who are, whoalready liked you first time, you
didn't engineer that return, butthey're coming back already, are
(26:18):
already bringing about 15% more.
Yeah.
In the, in the covers people,people love to share something
that they feel is special.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
That's the thing about the market.
So one of the other myths islike, this is a marketing problem.
Guest retention is a marketing problem.
Massive, massive myth.
Yeah.
Marketing and operations historicallyfor, you know, I can go about years of,
(26:41):
of being like battling with each other.
If you're in a big company,potentially it's like marketing.
Do this job operations, screw it up.
Put this menu in operations Screw Don't
Change because what, whatoperations need to do is facilitate.
(27:01):
And this personalization profilingyou, you, you know, understanding
who the guests are, this kind ofyour ideal guest avatar, where
they live, the local locality.
You know, this should support thenext, the, the post visit where you can
reach out to them with personalizationand, you know, understand who you are.
(27:22):
And I, I, I was talking to a guy.
Last week who works for Amazon,um, in the uk, works for Amazon.
Quite a, quite a highprofile job with them.
And he was out at a Wellknown restaurantgroup and they're pretty good.
And he said, he goes, these are really,he was telling me they have meetings
there once a month and he goes backin there and the restaurant, he sits
down in the restaurant and they go, um.
(27:43):
Ah, uh, Mr. Thompson, um, your, you, youhave the, the, the nine ounce sirloin
cooked this with this sauce last time.
Is that what you wanted?
And he goes, that's amazing.
And uh, and I go, that's good.
Amazing.
Is, uh, hi Mr. Thompson.
How's Francesca?
How's Annabel?
Hey, you know, how's my daughter?
How's my wife?
How's it, you know?
(28:04):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That might make me go, that's shit.
You know, that, and, and it's thesame process, but it's just, you
know, it's just about positioning.
Pushing back.
What does good look?
That's good to them.
And that's what this, this is what I do,you know, with, with, um, with operators
is, is they've got a thing, they've gota platform, they've got a reservation.
(28:26):
If they've got whateverthey're doing, I push back.
Can we do it better?
Can we do it better?
Can we do it?
Can, is that good enough?
Can we do that better?
Can we do that better?
And it's just, that's what, you just gothrough that kind of process with people
and it's amazing what happens when.
You know, we, we, one of the steps that,like the framework steps that we have
is, um, it's no grow echo with this.
(28:46):
So no is about, is about diagnosingthe gaps, understanding the guest,
defining the upside, building the plan.
But that's a real, really inwardlooking at what you are doing
in terms of guest retention.
And what comes outta that islike, is when they, when I get,
you know, when I work with.
And get to really inwardly, inwardly lookat what they're doing and their people.
(29:07):
So it's not just about the gueststhere, it's about the people.
Um, it's about their, you know,perhaps their platform set as well.
But yes, and also about the gueststhat it's like, it's amazing what,
what else you fix while you are doingthis, you know, in terms of development
and engagement and actual managerswho, who are like on the fence about
their job going, oh shit, we got so.
(29:31):
And we've got this common goal.
And, and by the way, it's, uh, as abyproduct, it's developing you into a
serious professional restaurant manager.
You know, and before it was aboutcompliance and this and all tick boxes
stuff, but, but this is like, youcould take this anywhere, you know,
because this is looking after guests.
This is like, this is like top,top, quality restaurant management,
(29:54):
professional restaurant management,in whatever situation you are.
Don't get me wrong on this as well.
You don't have to be a, the Ritz orHighend, you know, or anything like that.
Some of the greatest experiences are whenthe guy surprises you and it's five, you
know, you that end someone does something.
That is for, you know, thatto me is like, that's the
(30:16):
absolute goal when that happens.
simon (30:19):
So what, what you're bringing to my brain is a couple of things, but
number one, for me, I, every, throughoutthis whole conversation, I've been
trying to figure it out and now I got it.
This reminds me of like my favoritebartender, my old fashioned barkeeper,
right when I was 20 he was easily 60.
(30:39):
So this is the kind of guy where he,he's, he's got a bar and you know,
he, from, from his spot, he can lookout and he can see the front door.
He sees me coming, I comethrough the front door.
He addresses me by name.
By the time I like to sit on thefar back, spot away from the door,
I don't really wanna be talkedto when I'm sitting at the bar.
(31:00):
And so I walk all the way and bythe time I'm all the way back there,
he's got a glass of water, he'sgot my beer, he's got my whiskey.
And then he goes around to the otherside of the bar and he grabs the
newspaper and it, the newspaper is there.
And by the time I've sat down, he'sdelivering that newspaper and when we talk
earlier, we were talking about the basics.
(31:22):
It's like the fundamentals ofgreat customer management are,
have always been there, but we'veforgotten so much about that.
I haven't seen a bartender dothat in so many years, man.
Yeah.
Like, it just, it makes me go, oh, where,where, how do we, he does that, how
(31:42):
do we go back and teach that from theoperations level right before we You ever
get to like the data, right, because it'sthe fundamentals, you know, it's, it's.
It is the cook who looks atthe ticket that comes up and
it says Mr. Thompson on it.
And you know that Mr.Thompson likes his steak.
(32:05):
So rare.
It's still mooing, right?
Yeah.
It's that, it's it's takingthe time to, to remember the
Ewan (32:12):
Yeah.
The preference.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
But, but what we, what do we have now is.
We've got this computer system thatsits in our restaurant that allows us
to capture those preferences on market.
It's just what we do about it.
And it's like, so you first time time youcome in, I've got half empty restaurant.
(32:34):
It boils my.
Pissed when I, I get sat on a horribletable and it's a restaurant table, but
if someone doesn't go, which table?
Which table?
You know, where would you like to sit?
Just where would you like to sit?
I know, you know, it's threeo'clock in the afternoon.
You're not coming, noone else is coming in.
Where would you like to sit?
And I pick my favorite table.
And on that reservation platform,they can put, he picked that table.
That's his favorite table.
(32:56):
You know, that is a really simplething to start with you when
you, that's the simplest right.
simon (33:01):
Yeah.
That leads me to my next question.
Are you ready?
How about if you tell me too, likeobviously there is a broad spectrum
of things to be done with your clientsand uh, to, to help them move along.
But what can you say to the listenersof Culinary Mechanic that is gonna
like, give us, I don't know, giveus two things that are sort of the,
(33:24):
the fundamentals to get going on.
Really working to retain those guests.
What are the, what are the, likethe first two things that you
Ewan (33:33):
kind of start with?
Well, let's just assume thatwe've got the team on board.
Yeah, we've got 'em excited by it.
We've got 'em involved in building aplan and I mean, getting them involved.
Don't try and build a plan withoutsomebody in your team, without as many
people as possible in your teaming whatyou're already doing and pushing back.
Um, they've gotta buy into it.
So that's one of the first mistakes.
(33:54):
People, uh, operators, you know, wanta quick fix, jump to tactics, and they,
and they jump to tactics very quicklyand it's generally marketing stuff.
And maybe a better service criteria,but, um, it is, yeah, it's so important
that, that we understand what ishappening our, in our businesses.
And that's, you know, that,that's first and foremost.
(34:16):
But I think I'll give you two,I'll give you two, um, one's.
You'll, you should, or, or most peopledo have some kind of order of service or
service criteria in their restaurants.
We are gonna hit X, Y, and Z. Yeah.
We are gonna, we're gonna, you know,we're gonna set a table either x
(34:38):
amount of time, we're gonna serve it.
This, that, in this sort of time.
Time, and it's all transactional time.
That doesn't need to change.
You can still do your steps,but you've gotta transform it
into emotional intelligence.
So I, I put this into, into fourstages within your service criteria.
It's welcome.
(34:59):
So create this sense of belonging.
Like guests when they come in arelike, people are nervous about coming,
especially if you're busy restaurant.
They're not like, they might pretend tobe like, fine about it, but we wanna make
people feel as easy, easy as possiblewhen they come into your restaurant.
That could be done well before theycome in, as we talked about, you know,
(35:20):
but, but, but, but that, but top tipby somebody who's gonna be there on
the night that you are coming in.
So that might be a host if you kind of.
You and I'm gonna can't wait to see youtomorrow or on Tuesday or whatever it is.
Um, uh, we've got areally good table for you.
I'll see you at the front door.
I'm gonna be there, orsomething like that.
(35:41):
And then that, so that welcomesuddenly is an extension of, you know,
not just coming through the door.
It's like, it happened like two days ago.
And then I recognize that person.
How good do I feel when I come in there?
They recognize me.
You know, I mean, you'regetting really shit hot.
Then if you kind of social media.
But you can get to that end ndegree on this if you want to.
(36:04):
But, but, so that welcome is, you know,people talk, put a welcome in a service
criteria, and it's like smiled and we satyou down and maybe we asked where, where
you wanna start, something like that.
But that is not that, that's, that'sa, a welcome or as a. Welcome.
Well, you know what I mean?
It's not there, so that's good.
The next thing is, you know,from, you know, from within this
(36:24):
emotional journey, is, is, is guide.
I call it guide.
So this is about, um,
great, if you're gonna segment,if you can segment your guests.
That's a really good thing to do.
So you might have first time ininfrequent diners, you might have
second visitors if you can tag themon a, onto a reservation system.
(36:46):
So, so you know, and then morefrequent users and then like,
it might be like bronze, silver,gold, platinum, or whatever you
wanna, whatever you wanna call it.
But there's a little bit ofwork involved in doing that.
But everyone can do that.
But then you change your service alittle bit to guide, to guide people.
So first time in diet, first time diet.
I'm gonna talk 'em through the menu.
I'm gonna give them the provenance ofthe, of the, you know, the restaurant.
(37:09):
I'm gonna tell 'em what I likeand what they, you know, I'm
gonna, I'm not gonna sell to them.
I'm not gonna sell anything to them.
I'm gonna show them, you know?
Right.
That's a, that's a, that'san emotional connection.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnamake a point of not trying to, you
know, this, this is why spend Headis a metric is, is a, is a little
(37:30):
bit of a, you know, dicey one.
Just driving spend head means pushysales and it means trying to get someone
to, you know, rewarding, pushy salesis very damaging to guest retention.
You know, 'cause some people don'tdo it very well, but guiding someone.
But let's understand you on yourfirst visit, you know, all my
(37:51):
entire agenda here is about bringingyou back into the restaurant.
It's about showing you what we dogive, showing you the offer, showing
you the menu, you know, allowing youto pick, giving you, making you look
good in front of other people by not,you know, by not trying to, you know,
talk about a wine that no one's everheard about or like, or, or correcting
(38:14):
your pronunciation because you couldn'tsay the, the long word or whatever.
It's, it's about, it's aboutpreempting that so you feel good.
In front people andeveryone, and that adjusting.
Someone's come in once or twice tosomebody who's come in three or four.
They need a different level of service.
(38:35):
And if I could say to you on, onmy pre-shift, you know, you've
got four tables, two of them arebronze, three of them are silver.
This is what we're gonna do,you know, this is what you do.
You know, it's, it's there.
It's like, it's like we're gonna adjustit slightly and, uh, more safe for the
bronze and the guidance stuff up front.
Uh, and it also allows yourservice criteria to be adapted
a. You know, we regimented,
(39:01):
don't.
He don't, he don't care.
He knows, he knows he's all doingthat, that and that, and that,
that we don't care any of it.
So it just kind of, you know,empowers the team a little bit more.
Um, and then
simon (39:13):
at that point, I'm sorry to cut you off, but at that point it,
it's about easing all of the friction,like removing the friction of that.
Right?
It's if you, you're at platinum,it's about how, how seamlessly
can we get what we know youwant or what he knows he wants.
Totally,
Ewan (39:30):
totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes that's.
Like you, you, by that stage,you know that guest, so you
know, he's finishing off.
He's not, he's not, he's not,he's not asking for that top up.
You are, you're just doing it.
Do you know?
And, and do you know?
You, you're just doing it and if youget it wrong, it doesn't go on the bill
that's at that, that level when they'recoming that amount of time, you know?
(39:51):
And he's like, oh, no, I can't have that.
Okay.
It doesn't go on the bill.
I mean, we've got, because itis just, you know what I mean?
It's one of those things where you are,you are preempting those guys as much
as you can do, but it's, yeah, you'vegot, you get that with, you know,
you're gonna get that with confidence,aren't you, with knowing somebody.
And it's like, like I was saying, ifyou know people that coming to the
restaurant, how much easier is that?
So, yeah.
(40:11):
So, so guide is that sortof section then personalize.
Um, and this is, this is about profilingand or setting up being able to profile.
So like we talked about before.
It's that, um, how to make eachexperience feel uniquely tailored.
That's, that's the bestway to put it there.
So, um, and, and I can't, Ican't necessarily do that with a
(40:34):
first time diner with someone'scoming, but, but I could set it
up for the next time really well.
I can have a manager talk tothat table and I could have
reached out to them potentially.
So I'm not talking aboutyou got a hundred covers.
I'm not talking about reaching outto a hundred bookings at night.
I'm not talking about reaching outto a hundred cover hundred bookings.
It's like you might pick five or six thatyou do it and you follow this process
(40:57):
because we're all talking about is 5%.
Remember?
To get six figure returns components.
So, so you want people perhaps onlocality, so you're not a tourist, so
you are gonna, you can get 'em back.
So you need to find out this information.
Um, and it might be that, you know, theperson that reached out to them, hands
over the manager to them and say, oh, thisis, this is, you know, Steve, our manager,
(41:18):
um, uh, just wanted to introduce you.
You know, they've got a connection.
Then they're back at thetable, they're leaving a.
If when you book again, just, just,just message me, I'll put it in for you.
Now that, that doesn't have tobe a, that doesn't have to be a,
you know, his own phone number.
That could be a, a cell phone ormobile phone number that's, that's
assigned to the restaurant or whatever.
(41:39):
It's, make it feel personalized.
I, that's work for anybody.
The point is the emotionalconnections are have Oh, that'll
simon (41:46):
work.
Are you kidding?
Yeah.
If, if I, if I know that I can justdial or text a number and I don't have
to go through the process and it's donefor me and it, it makes me, again, it's
Ewan (41:58):
that feel special thing.
Yeah, totally.
Oh, what, I mean, it might, itwill work for the guest, might
not work for the restaurant.
The restaurant would need tomake it work kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll find a way, man.
Yeah.
But, but that's, but that's the, that'swhat all I used to do as an operator.
All I used to do phone calls, youknow, before, you know, it was like
you and oh, can we get a table?
Can we get a table?
You know, can we, that's how I wasrunning a restaurant, you know, it's
(42:19):
like, call, yeah, just message me.
Just message me.
And then you'd know, you'd leaveperhaps your busiest nights of the week.
You know, you'd have two tables becauseyou know, somebody who was a massive
regular was gonna message your last minuteand you're gonna be able to get 'em in.
And you know, that's the kind ofmentality of the thought process that,
you know, that that sort of inspiresthis, these sort of conversations.
Yeah.
It's just doing, it's just doing what,you know, what, what a phenomenal
(42:44):
kind of experience would look liketo, to a manager trying to, you
know, look after these regulars.
So yeah, that's, and what doessix stars look like, right?
Yeah, totally.
And the, and the last thingis this is kind of like,
appreciate is like the foresight.
So welcome, guide, personalized,appreciate, and appreciate is
leaving this lasting impression.
(43:06):
A last impression is not a goodbye.
It starts at main course.
It starts at main course down.
That impression is from whenthat main course goes down all
the way till when they leave.
It, it is not like a, a friendlygoodbye and everyone, you know,
a couple of people say goodbye.
It's like, it's thatemotional connection there.
(43:27):
It's making sure thateverything's absolutely spot on
and actually caring about that.
It's perhaps a little, you know, youmight have a toolkit in the restaurant
that you use like a. Wine or a littlefood taster or something like that.
Perhaps using on that table or, you know,something, something that you, you know,
you thought, you thought you thoughtthrough, and it's having a conversation
(43:48):
so personal that that, that perhaps youcan then use in a communication later on.
And I don't mean that being creepy.
I mean just, you know, I hope you enjoyedthe show after, I hope you enjoyed gonna
see that, you know, whatever they weregonna do or whatever, perhaps football
team or, you know, they were visitingtheir family or whatever that was.
It's just something you cansay, hope that went well.
(44:08):
Um, you know, you know, great to see you.
You know, and, and that's the,that's the follow up with them.
And then that makes that, you know, that.
You know, perhaps out your system.
Suddenly then they look at thator the 60 day one, it's like,
are they really, they cared.
You know, suddenly thatmeans something, doesn't it?
And you, and actually youcan get really serious.
(44:31):
You can adapt those kind of.
I'm sure AI will be able to really likesystemize that at some point as well,
where it takes your reservation data atsome point and it puts it into your, your
marketing and that's gonna be happeningsoon, but you don't need to do that.
But did all that make sense that,uh, that's, that's six, that's
it totally makes sense to me.
simon (44:52):
Can I just say two things?
Number one, I love the difference between.
American English and English.
English or UK English because shithot and boiling my piss are two of
the best things I've heard all week.
Uh, 'cause I don't feel like we asAmericans have things that, that,
(45:12):
that just are as evocative as that.
But I'm sure we do.
Um, well gosh.
Well thank you.
Thank you for sharing that last bit.
'cause I think that it's.
It, it really reinforces to me howthis can be a very basic part of
your, uh, of a restaurant strategyto continue to build their sales
(45:33):
and to, to grow their business.
Right.
It is, it is.
The basics just kindturned up a notch, right?
Yeah.
It's, it's so much of the fundamentalsof hospitality, but really take
into a, you said it earlier too.
Um.
It's almost the weaponizationof great questions.
(45:54):
Using those questions to really honein on, on amplifying touch points.
Yeah.
Ewan (46:02):
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that good enough?
Is that good enough?
Is that, is that just that pushing back?
But do you know what?
That's not easy to do by yourself.
It isn't, you know, in fact, in fact, it'svirtually impossible to do by yourself.
That's why you, you know, that'swhy the accountability side of
these things is, and that's why yougotta work with somebody else today.
And I'm not talking about necessarilyworking with me, I'm talking about
working with your own teams, you know,to, you know, but, but just understanding
(46:26):
where, what good looks like, what youare doing now and where you want to
get to and how we gonna get there.
You know, that's not a oneperson job in any anyway.
You could do it, but, but it's, it's,you gotta get everybody involved.
And, and, and that's where it's like.
simon (46:41):
For me, it feels like the greatest exercise to be done at a team meeting.
Right?
Yeah.
It that, that is like how here, hereare the, here are 10 touch points.
Start with number one.
How do we make that better?
Get two, three ideas.
Number two, how do we do that better?
And really, because I mean,oftentimes in a restaurant
(47:04):
you've got restaurant or a bar.
I'm working with a pub right now,and all I can think of is we're
talking about growing their business.
And I've got a really neatconversation to have with 'em tomorrow.
I guarantee you, you know, juststarting to reformulate a little bit
of what we've been talking about, butI think it's like, let's map that.
(47:26):
Like start with what are the touchpoints in your standard journey?
'cause it's, there aren'treservations in this place, right?
Yeah.
Um, but that doesn't mean thatthere's really any less data because.
It's there.
Yeah.
Know from the credit cards
Ewan (47:41):
on down.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so that's what I mean about notgetting into, not getting into the,
we talked.
Could be, can be, can be, you know,enhanced without knowing your numbers.
You know, it's, it's, itobviously makes it easy to track.
It makes it done, but you'll see thenumbers, you'll see it in, you know,
(48:02):
in other ways you'll see it in likeyour, you know, your KPIs and you'll
see it in your, hopefully in your sales.
And as you say, you can track things thesedays, like credit cards and you know that,
that kind of spend to see guess frequency.
So there are other ways, but.
But there's, there's also a wholeworld out there that doesn't involve
the numbers, that just amplifiesand makes the business better.
(48:25):
So, yeah, don't, don't,I mean, from a day-today
simon (48:28):
tactic, I, I was just thinking what if every time a manager had
to check out a server, they justlooked at them and said, so how many
repeat guests did you have tonight?
Exactly, exactly right.
Like, because if it became, if itbecame something that was important
to the manager as which then become,which they, by asking that question
(48:50):
every single time and really gettingpeople excited about it, it becomes
Ewan (48:54):
important.
simon (48:55):
Right?
Yeah.
So
Ewan (48:55):
talk to, yeah, so, so we cashing out, talk to me
about table two, table three.
Where are table two from?
What's their background?
What's the story, you know?
Yeah.
But by the way, I'm expecting themanager to know some of this as well.
The most.
Yeah, the, obviously the server and theservice team, they are, you know, the
absolutely Inspira, you know, and they're,you know, they're a really important role
(49:18):
to obviously to get that right and havethat relationship and, you know, but a
manager has, has, has so much impact.
You know, people wanna know the manager.
People want to, you know, be connectedto the manager and if the managers
like can get involved at a levelthat, that emotional, that's gonna
be, that's gonna be another levelpowerful, you know, to the server.
(49:38):
So, um, so yeah, it's importantthat they know as well.
So the connection that I find, dependingon the size of the business is that.
Is that the above site manager?
How are they commun, how are theydrilling this down with their team?
And then how the generalmanager kind of filters it in.
But listen, that's,that's a bigger business.
Not everyone's got abovesite managers and all that.
(49:58):
It's it.
It might just be threeof you working in a bar.
How can we make this, how can we makethis like this experience quite better?
You know, you can just, yeah.
It's fun, isn't it?
It's fun.
Even talking about it,it's even better doing it.
Absolutely.
It's even better.
It's even better seeing the results of it.
simon (50:16):
Well, I think the, for me, the biggest reframe is, is what I wrote right
here, and it says the number one job ishow do you get the guest to come back?
Like that's a reframe thatnot everybody thinks about.
And I think that that's,that's a number one.
Like that's the number one shift, right?
(50:36):
If you Oh yeah.
If you start to, to spend, to getfanatical about how you get your people,
how you get your guests to come back.
I think you're right.
Like that's gotta compound becauseyou have so many guests coming in.
If you just change the numberof repeats, that's phenomenal.
I love it.
Yeah.
But such, such a small amount
Ewan (50:55):
as well.
Simon's big, just a small amount.
Compounds and compounds and it's serious.
Totally numbers.
simon (51:04):
Cool, man.
Well thank you so much for coming to playwith us in my little sandbox of the world.
I, I really appreciate it.
And to all y'all out there,have a great day you, and
I'll catch you next time, man.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
(51:27):
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
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