September 30, 2025 • 50 mins
Show Notes
Old-school training meets modern leadership. Chef Andrea Pancani spent eight years scaling teams across San Ambroeus Hospitality Group, and he’s blunt about what has to change: ego down, teaching up. We dig into why “meet them where they are” isn’t soft—it’s the key to operational clarity.
You’ll hear how daily huddles actually work when they’re done right, why orders should never be placed at the end of service, and how to build a sous chef pipeline so you’re not stuck doing two jobs.
If you’re an independent restaurant operator trying to run a calm kitchen without losing standards, this episode delivers: systems that cut chaos, leadership that respects people, and culture that keeps your best cooks.
Connect with Chef Andrea
Email: andreapancani3@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrea-pancani-aa1453116/
Connect with Simon
Email: simon@culinarymechanic.com
Book a Call: https://calendly.com/culinarymechanic/discovery
Website: https://www.culinarymechanic.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Simon (00:31):
tell me, tell me what's going on in your world?
How are, how are things like,what are the challenges?
Tell me what's great.
I'd love to just kinda.
Get some groundwork like what's going on.
Well, uh, I've been for, uh, uh, I'vebeen the corporate chef of, uh, of
a great brand as a SA hospitalitygroup in New York, and not just New
(00:54):
York now, even Colorado, Europe andFlorida for, uh, for eight years.
And it was, uh, it really,really impressive and, uh,
great experience that I had.
Andrea (01:06):
And in these eight years, uh, I, I always remember how
I started in this position ofcorporate chef where I was, uh.
Fresh and young.
And so you, you fell intoyour, into, you fell into your,
uh, old debit of uh, uh Okay.
Being a chef and being a old schoolchef, uh, my, my background of,
(01:28):
uh, of, uh, of kitchen and of, uh,hospitality is all in, uh, in the fine
dining and the Michelin in Europe.
So I had the, the trainingof the old school, uh, uh,
European Way and, uh, and, uh.
I, I, I actually still appreciatethe, the training that I, that I
(01:48):
received back in time, back in thedays, because I felt that it was
the right training for that time.
Uh, still if, uh, if you ask menow, and it happen many times,
that chefs are asking me, oh,how do you treat in this way?
What do you think about,uh, no call, no show?
What do you think aboutthis kind of stuff?
And the reaction of them is, is, uh.
(02:11):
Not always, but most of the timeis like, uh, yeah, they should,
they should find another job.
And I'm like, no, you, you,you, you don't do that anymore.
It is not that.
We need to understand whatis going on in their life.
And uh, and that's the beauty of it.
We work with people and our jobis, uh, one of the fewest few job
that still are made by human being.
(02:34):
Yes.
And I be like that for,uh, for uh, for so long.
So.
Uh, we, we have to deal as leader in the,in this, uh, with, uh, emotion, with, uh,
problems, uh, life, uh, changing, lifechanging problem that, uh, every one of us
is, uh, is, uh, is having here and there.
So.
(02:54):
That's, uh, that's, uh,that's a beautiful thing.
And, uh, and we can make an impact, uh,not just on guest experience, not just
making a dish that is gonna blow themind of a, of a guest by, it's, uh, first
it's, uh, it's the people, it's the staffthat we work with and they work with us.
So, and not for,
Both (03:11):
yeah.
I tell you, I keep the, the phrasethat keeps coming back everywhere I go.
Simon (03:17):
Uh, I was at a conference a year ago and then I was having some
conversations and it just keeps comingback and it's meet them where they are.
Um, you know, I, I, I definitely, I,I grew up in the restaurants of, of.
Some, some really notfancy restaurants right.
(03:38):
From New Mexico to Southern Californiato Massachusetts and Florida.
Um, and I used cooking as a way topropel me to go anywhere I wanted, right?
Um, the good news is I had somegreat, great teachers along the way.
I, I found myself in Californiaworking for some very, very wonderful
restaurateurs and, and some companies and.
(04:02):
It's so fun, fascinating to me as Istart, as I talk to chefs very much
like yourself, but sometimes it's justin a, in a, uh, direct message, a DM
on LinkedIn or Instagram, uh, wherepeople are like, oh, these kids, these
kids, they don't, they don't understand.
And I realized that when, and I'm, and Iwanna know if this is the same for you.
(04:27):
When I was a kid, the old guys, right,the guys in their late thirties,
forties, fifties, they used to tellme what a, like what a little whiner
I was because I wanted, you know,basic, what I thought were basics.
And I thought everygeneration tells the one.
After it.
How, how weak they are.
(04:48):
Right.
And not, and not just in our business.
That's it.
That's easy.
No, that's in life.
I mean, high school, uh,uh, is the same thing.
So, and, and, and it'sokay that to happen.
I mean, the, the, the point thereis not, uh, and I'm sorry if I
interrupt you, your, your, it's okay.
It's okay.
Andrea (05:08):
Is, uh, the, the point there is, uh, this kind of, uh, of
thing is gonna happen and maybe.
It has to happen because it's part of, ofhow we grow up and how we need to grow up.
Uh, the, the thing that has to change isjust the stopping the conversation on,
uh, these kids, they don't understand.
(05:28):
Well word change a lot, thank God,and is gonna changing and changing.
And, uh, most of the time,I mean, I see myself in, uh.
Cooking in a, no, not in the cooking,uh, side, but in the, in the leader side,
the leadership side, how I manage my teambefore and how I manage myself as well.
(05:50):
Uh, before, back in the days I wasworking so many hours, which I'm still
doing it, but now I know what, whenI have to stop and how to stop, which
is during the day you take a walk, youjust, uh, uh, disconnect for 30 minutes.
And I
Both (06:07):
need to stop you for one second.
I'm sorry, my dog is freaking out.
Let me, lemme let him come on.
Come on.
Simon (06:39):
That's what editing is for.
How old is he?
Uh, 14.
Oh, wow.
They're almost 14.
Both I, there are two, and one ofthem, one of them has gotten calmer
while the other one is, I don't know.
He's on pain medications of all kinds, soall of a sudden he's very whiny and jumpy.
(07:02):
Right.
He's a little, he's halfpug, half Chihuahua.
Oh, wow.
So, and he, so he is very spring loaded.
Um, anyway, I, I apologize.
No, it's one of those things, it's likeI gotta put him out and there'll probably
be another edit in the, towards the end.
But let's see, where are we here?
Nine 12.
(07:22):
Okay.
Andrea (07:26):
But yes, as I was saying, is, uh, uh, the, the, the point is how
we, we, we react and how we changeourself, uh, uh, going forward.
I mean, back in the days, uh, when wewere, when we were kids, we were like
pushing hard every day more and more,uh, not feeling pain, not feeling.
(07:46):
And even when we were feeling pain, all.
Or being tired.
We were like, uh, okay.
No, we need to show up.
We need to show off and weneed to shoot the, we need to
show that we, we, we can do it.
Uh, and now we arelike, and now we change.
And now we are like,uh, yeah, I can do it.
But I have people and I, I knowI can trust people to do for me
(08:08):
because I cannot do anymore becauseI'm, I need to, to, to relax.
I need to breathe and stuff like that.
And it's super important.
I mean, that's how, yeah.
Uh, that's how the, thepoint of, uh, they are kids.
The, these kids that don't understandanything can change in Yes, these kids,
they need to learn a lot, which is okay.
(08:30):
Which is part of, uh,of, uh, of, uh, of life.
So,
Both (08:35):
yeah, this is a conversation I was having yesterday and, and
it may, and it just makes myhead kind of tingle a little bit.
Simon (08:43):
And it's not only do we have to accept that there is.
A different way, but we have to adapt.
We have to adapt the way we teach.
Yeah, definitely.
Right?
Um, uh, it, it's this idea that likeeverything has to, has to cue up or
(09:04):
everything has to be done from theperspective of the older, but that's
not necessarily the truth anymore.
Right?
Like, I think that.
I, I, I talked to a chef aboutsix months ago and he goes, oh,
he goes, I just can't, and I said.
All those complaints that they makeabout the way that things are going and
the way things are, they're not wrong.
(09:27):
Right.
Uh, the the funny thing for me is, uh, ifyou start to look at, if you really start
to dig into these computers in front ofus and really dig down deep under Google
and chat GPT, you can find the research.
Yeah.
The research says that that humandecision making go, like, goes down
your capacity to make decisions.
(09:49):
Goes down after seven hours.
Right?
It's, it's true.
Right?
So like I start to tell people,okay, plan how you spend that time.
Right.
You know, and if you can, if you candecrease the intensity at the beginning,
you know, I tell people, go in and like,go into your co to your, to your work
(10:12):
and work on the little tiny things.
Check your email so you'renot, there's no stress.
There's just a little less.
And then give yourself that sevenhours of intensity where you need it.
And then find a way to like not bedoing something big and like I, it
kills me, the people that do theirorders at the end of their day.
I'm like, what are you,what are you doing?
(10:33):
And I, I never understood that thing.
It, it freaks me outevery time it stopped.
And when I, uh, I mean, with them,I was managing, uh, uh, 12, uh, 12
location, uh, around the US market.
Uh, and I had few chefs thatthey were used to do that.
So I wa and I remember a few dfew nights I was there with them.
(10:55):
I was like, do you pleasethe order for, for tomorrow?
Andrea (10:57):
I wanna, I wanna, uh, I wanna see one thing.
They were like, no, no, I'mgonna place a leader tonight.
I was like, what?
And seriously, I was shaking forthem because I was like, how can you
be focused after, after a service,no matter how, how many people, how
many count, get, uh, cover count?
You're gonna do it, buthow can you be focused?
I mean, for me.
(11:19):
And I love being in restaurant.
I, um, my wife, uh, most of the time she,she, she tell me that, uh, I'm, I'm also
spending too much time in a restaurant,but because I love restaurants.
So she understood that.
And, uh, and spending time in a restaurantin a different way of just, uh, being
there and focusing on everything isjust the way that I, that I feel the
(11:40):
restaurant that is different for me.
And, um, and I know, I know whatwas going on in the end of the night
when you're like, oh, I'm done.
Great job guys.
Thank you so much.
See you tomorrow.
And you have nothing to do.
Just change your clothes andleave, which is the thing.
(12:00):
And then the other thing yes.
Is, is the focus side.
That is, uh, super important.
I remember we had, uh.
One time at some point, uh, we arrived todaily restaurant in total for the company.
So we were like, okay, we needto, uh, stretch her out and, uh,
uh, start to do a, uh, a dailycatch up with, uh, each chef.
(12:20):
And so chef.
So we were doing this meeting, 30minutes meeting, uh, four days a week.
Tuesday to Friday usually was,uh, and Friday, usually at some
point I was like, in the morning,guys, it's canceled for today.
Don't worry.
I have a great service.
I'll see you later.
'cause I know how Friday night,Friday afternoon, uh, it becomes,
and then in New York especially,but everywhere in the world.
(12:42):
It becomes, uh, a little bit crazy and,uh, you don't wanna spend time in, uh, as
a chef, you don't wanna spend time in ameeting because that 30 minutes, if you
can spare the 30 minutes you wanna spendoutside a little bit smoking a cigarette,
if you're smoking, uh, drinking water,just calling your fiance or just, uh,
breathing so yeah, is very important.
(13:04):
Uh, and them meeting in thebeginning was so harsh for everyone.
And I was like, uh, in thebeginning I was like, why guys?
You don't wanna understand thisis important and stuff like that.
And then at some point, uh, I start to.
Be in location at that time.
Because usually for the, for the meetingI was in, uh, I was in my office and
I was like, no, I'm doing this wrong.
(13:26):
It's me that is doing this wrong.
So I start to do location per location,taking the chef with me in the office, uh,
in the restaurant or in the dining room.
And I was like, uh, okay,let's do this meeting.
And then I figure it out.
Fuck guys, I Sorry for the swear.
I just, that's okay.
I, I choose the wrong time first thing.
(13:46):
And second of all, I didn't ask you whenyou wanna do this meeting, and that's why
you are pissed off with me and you are,uh, frustrated a little bit with that.
So at some point we did that meeting.
I was like, okay guys, you choosethe day, you choose the time, you
choose what you wanna talk about.
I'm gonna have my thingsto say in the meeting.
Uh, it's gonna be just a fewthings of a reminder of an
(14:08):
inventory of it was basicallyjust a meeting to be all together.
Uh, when we were growing because inthe end of the day, you start to, to
to spend so much time in the newestlocation and the old way, or the oldest,
uh, one that, uh, they work very well.
The chef is super aware.
Yeah.
You talk with him with the phone, butthe human contact is always something.
(14:29):
Uh, even for five minutes aday is something that change,
uh, changes everything.
Both (14:34):
Absolutely.
You know, uh, I. Youused to hate meetings.
I, I really did.
As a, as a, as a sous chef and achef, and very similar to you, I,
I had that time where it was like,okay, the company said, you need
to start to do these meetings and.
Simon (14:52):
It, it took me a few years and once I got there I realized, you know,
we also, we also u utilize this system.
Uh, what is the book?
The book is Traction, right?
And it's all about this on this like an.
Operating system, the entrepreneurialoperating system, and it talks about all
the things that you need for the meeting.
(15:13):
And I realized, huh?
Just exactly what you said, it'slike we need to start on time, we
need to end on time, and then therestarts to become some respect, right?
Yeah.
Because, you know, we started totime the meetings, we, you know,
and I would tell them, I was like,so I'm running around from across
seven units, sometimes just four and.
(15:36):
I said, you know, your time isvaluable, but what, what we can do
in these meetings is really keepyou on track and moving forward,
there's extreme value in it, right?
Um, and I used to tell 'em, I'mlike, you need to tell me every time.
The two or three things that are notworking for you, you know, even, even
(15:57):
if it's a, is a stupid thing, like, oh,the fridge today is not in temperature.
Andrea (16:01):
Even if you already reported as a chef and you tell me, I know
that I can help you and I know that.
We know that you as a chef thatis responsible directly for that,
you're gonna feel valued and you'regonna feel respected and stress.
To free up.
You got, you have the time there.
(16:22):
And it's super, super important becausein the end of the day, one of the things
that I always said to, to, to chef,and I have a perfect example for that,
uh, talking about the bad way to dothis job, uh, which I just finish a,
a consulting that, uh, he, he was, uh.
I cannot, I cannot dona I cannot say name.
(16:44):
I cannot pronounce anything.
But I, I can say somestuff that I saw there.
Uh, but one of the things that I wassaying to my chef was like, uh, use
every time that you have with me.
Accept the time that I need to speakwith you about some stuff, but use
that time to just free yourself up.
(17:06):
So if, uh, a manager answer you in abad way, if you have a problem with the
person, if you have a problem with the,with the dish, if you have a problem
with the maintenance, if you have problemwith everything around the restaurant
business, around your restaurant,just use me to do that and then I'll
take care of the problem or I can.
(17:26):
I can help you in, uh, figure out orlooking at the problem a different way.
And that's for me, that is, uh, again.
I love cooking.
I have a strong, strongpassion for cooking.
I mean, I'm, uh, I'm here doing, uh,r and d for two weeks, uh, in Italy.
I came, uh, I'm in my parents' housenow and I came here and the first
(17:48):
thing that I did, I didn't have anyevents, just r and d, so I didn't even
to, uh, I need, I didn't need to bringmy knife sat and stuff like that.
The first thing that I put in myluggage was, uh, was my knife roll.
And, uh, my parents had were like, whyyou bring your, you brought your knife
roll, you're gonna be here a few days.
(18:08):
I was like, don't worry, we're gonna cook.
And now tonight, uh, tonight, tomorrow,I'm gonna cook a lot with them.
So that's, that's the beauty of it.
But in the end, uh, uh, thefirst thing as a leader beside
cooking, which that is already a,a. A base that you need to have.
Otherwise, you, you cannotbe in that position.
(18:28):
And that's the mistake that mostof the people, uh, that most of
the people make, which is, oh yeah.
But when I see, I saw conversation, uh.
Owner to current directorand corporate chef.
They were like, yeah, but I wantto see you back in the line.
And I was like, wait a second.
(18:48):
You are, you are asking your currentdirector, which you are paying a lot of
money also to manage the, the department,so your restaurant and stuff like that.
And this was one of the, my,uh, my, my last consulting,
which was another company.
And uh, I was like, you arepaying, first of all, as business.
You are paying a person to do a joband you wanted him to do another job.
(19:11):
So business side, you are already wrong.
Second of all, you are demeaningthis person because you are not
saying that is good on cooking side,which it should be already good.
And, and third, it's, andthis side is already done.
So once you arrive in those position,you, you don't forget about cooking.
(19:33):
You cook a lot and you can cook a lot.
Yeah.
Still, you have to cook with your teams.
And that's the beauty.
I, I, I remember I used to do, Idid all the tasting where on my side
I am, uh, I'm a little bit crazyand the OCD in this kind of stuff.
So all label, all uh, all stuff superorganize, all the core container,
(19:55):
uh, uh, at the, at the level that,uh, we need for the recipe, for
the test and stuff like that.
But the point of me was like, uh, uh,we were planning the, the menus or the
photo shooting and stuff like that.
We were doing location, so I wastaking the chef of the location.
I was like, okay, the free, free yourselfup from service and stuff like that.
(20:18):
Because for today's, we're gonnabe shoulder by shoulder doing
everything you and I together.
And that's a beauty, that's a beautifulthing that we were involved in.
The pasta guy or the grillguy, or the garbage guy.
But that's the beauty of it, becauseyou create a culture and that's the,
the the most important thing that.
In, especially in a business likerestaurant business, where again,
(20:42):
we are working between human beingsand we have the responsibility
to feed other human beings.
So, okay.
It's super important because we need tofeel the responsibility and to feel the.
Serious of, of this act that we aremaking because we are giving people food.
They go that they're gonna ingest.
(21:03):
So the food has to be perfect andnot just in taste, even in quality.
Yeah.
We need to take care of that.
And most of the time, laterecently, especially, I see.
So much careless about this kind of stuff,and I'm a little bit worried about this.
And, uh, but, but then I understoodwhy, because most of the people,
(21:25):
they are, they're not, they're, theydon't have the base to do this kind
of, uh, of, uh, of quality control.
Uh, and, uh, and, and that's, that'sa shame and that's a big problem.
Both (21:40):
Yeah, I think that.
For me, l looking out as a, as aleader and somebody who's trying to
help leaders get better, the, the,the one word I can say to them all
day long is teach, teach, teach more.
Right?
As the, as the people that are alittle bit older, we have to go back.
Simon (21:59):
Like I, I find myself, like even as a consultant and as an advisor
to the chefs, I find myself like.
Pulling the chef aside andgoing, Hey, try this, try that.
And he's like, well, uh, I, you, youweren't hired to help me with the food.
I'm like, I know, but I tasted it.
And trust me, you need to work on that.
Uh, but I think that like the levelof teaching or the level of talent.
(22:24):
Right.
I think you would agree.
It's a little bit more like I, wetalk about the talent pool, right?
We talk about it's just shallower becauseso many of the cooks are tired of, of
the grind and they're tired of that andthey've gotten out right out here on the
west coast in Seattle, I, I can countabout 15 or 20 cooks that are good cooks.
(22:46):
They've been around, they'veworked in good restaurants.
They work for Amazon.
Now.
They drive, they, they do other things.
Yeah, because it stops beingfun, you know, for them.
And so there are so many positions openand everywhere I talk, every chef I
talk to, I say, what's your challenge?
And the, the first word outtatheir mouth is staffing.
(23:06):
You know?
But I think that nowadays it is our jobto, to teach, but also, how do I say this?
I want people to teach whatthey know, but also teach.
The, the, uh, teach how theywant to be teaching is the, is
the only way to say it, right?
(23:27):
Like Yeah, it's true.
Definitely.
Because, because we can't, we can'tdo the old fashioned way of just
fear and, and yelling, you know?
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
(23:48):
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
notes to connect with me directly.
Um, I, and I don't know where I saw it, but I saw a guy on, on my little
phone in the, in the social media talkingabout how close to a hundred years ago.
(24:11):
You know, the pressures startedto increase in restaurants and,
and over the last, each decadegets more and more and more.
And at some point they just, the, theleaders that our chefs, they decided
that they had to get the resultsand they didn't know how to do it.
So they just did it.
The only way they knew how,which was to scream and to
yell, but now we can't do that.
(24:33):
But now the problem is that they don'thave the tool, the one major tool
that has fed us for a hundred years.
So now we're just not people.
Now they're just tryingto do it themselves.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that you seethat, you see the chefs just trying to
grind it out instead of understandingwhat it is to communicate effectively,
(24:55):
what it is to delegate, what it,you know, and those words are hard.
So I tell people, I'm like, just teach,teach more and then ask them to, and
then ask people to come with you.
The problem, the problem of, uh,of, uh, being able to teach is
that, uh, you need to have zero ego.
And, uh, that's theother problem that I see.
(25:16):
Uh, one of the last consulting thatI did, uh, they, they had already a
corporate, uh, executive chef that.
Andrea (25:26):
That wasn't ready to deposition, honestly.
Uh, and, um, in many ways managingfood from the COGS side, which
I don't want to talk about.
And the, the thing that, uh,worried me a lot and uh, was, uh,
more, more scared to me was the.
The communication side, and it was like,why you are not communicating, right?
(25:50):
Why you have this attitude, why you?
And then I understood, I saw how thisperson was interested in, uh, media.
I was interested in, in having, uh,as, uh, the face on, uh, on a, on a
post, the, the, the thing like that.
I was like, in the end of the day.
One day, this, this world is gonna end.
So in the end of the day, you'regonna arrive at some point where the
(26:13):
media doesn't interest you anymore,doesn't, is not interested in you
anymore because it's gonna be anotherone of you, other three of you.
That's the point.
I mean, uh, and, and I felt thatthing of the ego because coming from a
mission, uh, a mission, uh, culture, youare like, uh, your ego is super high,
especially when you are young becauseyour, your goal is okay, I want to have
(26:37):
a, uh, the, the, the mission start ofmy, of my heart, which now I, I get it.
I, I'm, no, I'm not interested anymoreand I never get the mission start.
I work for Mission Start, buthonestly, it's not my goal anymore.
I love to cook.
I love to feed people.
I love to treat people well and towork with people and to create and
(26:58):
build up a culture and hospitality.
So that's my goal.
But, um, when I was talking to thisperson, I was like, what makes you,
why you are frustrated, why you are soinsecure about this, uh, about delegating?
And, uh, the, the answer was sounclear, oh, because the ownership
needs me to do this kind of stuff.
(27:19):
Then I start to look better at thebig picture, and I was like, okay.
You called me to build up, to helpyou build up the current department
on this side and, uh, uh, to grow thisposition, this person in this position
to make this position, this personvery, very good at this, at this job.
(27:40):
And, and to help you growup, grow, grow the, the, the
business itself and the company.
'cause you wanna open more and more.
And you wanna becomemuch more incorporated.
You already have six restaurant andnow you wanna go at nine, so this is
right time to do this kind of stuff.
You're even a little bit late.
And then I start to realizewe were doing meetings and the
(28:00):
meetings were one hour meeting.
It was one hour and 45talking about nothing.
And I was like, I, I, I sat in, uh, Isat down in uh, three, four meetings
of the, the operation meetings everyweek was a. At some point, one of the
last meeting that I did, I was like,okay, they're almost done with my
consulting with you, with my period.
(28:22):
I'm not interested in renewingthe consulting with you guys.
And, uh, but I don'twanna leave you like that.
So, uh, let's finish.
I have, uh, still, I still have.
Couple of three, three weeksI had, I was like, okay.
I was like, uh, let'stalk about financial.
And I started to talk about financial.
I start to talk about, and not justthe point of most of the meeting that I
(28:46):
assist in many of, uh, of, of, uh, my,my career is like, oh, this restaurant
is making, uh, 10, $10,000 less thanlast year, week by week per week,
week, uh, this week versus last week.
Last year, week.
Yeah, the weather.
And when I, uh, when I heard this answer,especially from the owner, no, not from
(29:08):
the CFO, because the CFO, it gives youthe number, then it's you operational
that you have to say something.
Then the director operation saythat the corporate chef, the current
director say that, and I'm like, guys.
It cannot be just the weather, especiallyin the city, York cannot be the weather.
So please don't say that.
Let's analyze.
Then of course, last Tuesdaythere was a big storm.
(29:30):
Of course no one was around, ofcourse, but we are talking about
one day, one week, so it cannotruin your week in the, in this week.
And then I was like, okay, maybeyou are, uh, we start to talk.
And I was like, uh.
I was like, all right, so you arelosing 10 K this week versus last week.
Last year versus the same week last year.
(29:51):
Like maybe it's super hotright now and the menu is super
wintery and we are in June.
I was like, do you understandthat this menu cannot work
in this kind of environment?
Last year, same week was cold.
That's how you have to look atweather, not the day that is raining
and talking about this kind of stuff.
I saw.
(30:12):
There was a blind, uh, blind concept aboutthat empty, empty, empty, empty screening.
And I was like, okay, maybe you are notready to, to, to expand your company.
So just think about that because inthe end of the day, uh, the other
thing that I like is, uh, the firthat I like is when I see place with
(30:36):
a lot of potential zero culture.
And zero understandingof how to make a culture.
And, uh, and that'sthe, that's where then.
We all work in place like that.
We all have to do in place like that.
Uh, when we were kids, when we,even when we are older now, few
times it happened and, uh, the thingthat happened is that people are
(31:00):
leaving from this kind of company.
They don't wanna work like that.
They prefer to go to work at Amazon,OPS Walgreen or, or something like that.
And why?
Because it's stress free.
Because most of the peoplearrive at some point in time and
they're like, this is just a job.
No matter how much passion I have,I don't want to treat it like shik.
I don't wanna treat it like that.
(31:20):
I don't wanna, uh, ruin my life and,uh, and not being able to live my
life with my friends, my, my, my wife.
So to make the sacrifice Ineed to, to feel respected.
To follow my dream and to follow my goal.
And that's what happened with me.
But I remember I did the, the, thehospitality, uh, school here in, uh, here
(31:45):
in, uh, in Italy when I was, uh, a kid.
And, uh, in my classroom, in, uh, inthe last year we were 25, 24 people,
just four of us kept doing this job.
I was talking to one of those,which, uh, became also a, a
strong journalist here in Italy.
Uh, last year.
(32:06):
I was with him, uh, having a, havinga, a coffee in the morning and it
was like, uh, uh, I'm, so, it wastelling me about this, this thing.
And I was like, uh, I'm sohappy for you that you keep,
uh, you kept doing that one.
And, uh, and I know.
The stress and whatever you did.
And, uh, they follow you.
(32:26):
And we, we, we were intouch and stuff like that.
I was like, but why you didn'tkept, uh, going, I mean, I knew
that you were, you love journalists.
Journalists and stuff like that.
It was like, honestly, I love it,but it was my second choice because
I arrived to work in a place afterschool and I felt so disrespected that
I felt I, I was feeling sick every day.
(32:50):
And when I heard that, I was like, wewere, we, we started this conversation.
I was like, see, that's, that's theproblem that we had in this business.
Yes.
And that's the, the, the, thebiggest, the biggest, biggest problem.
We are always talking.
No one wants to do this job.
We are always, uh, putting aas chef, oh, you are a chef.
(33:11):
You know how pain it is.
No guys, that, that's it.
Let's not the bear.
The birth, it's fucking shame becausethey're picturing the first season.
I love that first season because atsome point it was like, uh, recreating
our world, our old school world.
(33:33):
And it was true.
It was real, it was passionand uh, and I felt you Wait,
Both (33:38):
wait, wait.
It was traumatic too.
Yeah.
Don't forget traumatic, okay, go.
Andrea (33:44):
But because in the end of, and that's what was real, because
in the end of the day we had not thelevel because the level, it's like,
guys, you need a team of therapistafter, after what experience?
Uh, as, as a chef, I mean, I neverwork with a. With a chef piece of
shit that he was telling me, this kindof stuff, because I was also a piece
(34:04):
of shit as well when I was a kid.
So at some point I was drawing a line.
I mean, I'm not, I, I know whenI, when, when I have to stop and
I know well when to stop you asa chef to be disrespectful to me.
But the point is, uh.
Now they're still picturingthis kind of stuff.
I mean, the last season, I'm, I'mwatching it because I wanna see, because
(34:27):
I know how the impact that is havingon, uh, on the youngest, on the new
generation of a chef and, uh, is super,super weird and not good because.
We arrived at the last, at the last,at the last episode where he wants
to leave the restaurant to deal withthis problem because he know, he knew.
(34:48):
He, he, he knows that he's theproblem, which is the most bullshit
thing to do, and still ego.
Yeah, because your lifedepends, depend on your job.
Yes.
Somehow, yes.
But in the, in the same way, we areall working a restaurant business.
We are all doing a lotof hours, a lot of days.
(35:11):
You can draw the line at five, then you'regonna have to work, especially as for
leader, you're gonna answer to the phone.
Uh, when you're on your day off, it's nota problem, but you are doing it in a, in
another way, which is much more, you know,you are giving support and it's part of
your, uh, of your, of your soul as well.
But that kind of stuff was saying, oh,I'm gonna leave because I have to deal
(35:34):
with my things because I'm the problem.
It's like admitting that this, uh, thisrestaurant, the restaurant business is
just where you are in or you are out.
Which is the strongestbullshit I ever heard.
And it's, and then you see theyoung chef that they believe
that, and I have tattoos.
And now with the, the word I'm like,uh, um, uh, with all the younger
(35:59):
generation that they have knife andstuff like that, I just have this
one with a fork, knife and spoon.
And it's always covered with my shirtand stuff like that, but it's like
they believe that having a knife, uh,tattoo, it's, uh, it makes you a chef.
They believe that, uh, screaming andbe being the way it makes you a chef.
No, guys, it's, it'sa lot of other things.
(36:21):
I mean, I work with many.
Strong executive chef, a many currentdirector that they know what they know,
how to do it, what to do, and whento, and when do it, and when to do it.
And, uh, it's the beauty, the beauty ofit is that you learn from them without
even a feeling that they are teaching you.
Both (36:45):
Yeah, it's, it's amazing what can happen when you get somebody who
ha understands how to communicateand how, how to be a leader.
Uh, for me, I, I, I get into the,I always get into this conversation
of, oh, we have to learn the food,learn the food, learn the food.
Simon (37:06):
But what happened to like, not just, it's, it's about how we,
how we communicate and how we teach.
That really speaks to be how we, howwe groom the leaders of tomorrow.
'cause right now we're in apro, there's a problem, right?
Like I, I, I fear for the quality ofrestaurants and I fear for there's
(37:29):
always gonna be the high echelon.
There's always gonna bethose, those top right.
And they'll, they'll do whatthey do and people will.
Continue.
But I think especially in the UnitedStates, there's this level of restaurant
that is one or two rungs below that.
Yeah.
And people can't find, people can't stop.
They can't find chefs for them.
They can't find sous chefs.
(37:50):
You know, uh, sous chefs started to becomean endangered species about 10 years ago.
Yeah, it's true.
It's true.
'cause because the onesthat were good became chefs.
But so many people, and I, I experiencedthis in my company that I was working
for so many of my cooks, I would goto them and say, you are amazing.
Like, let me work with you andwe'll get you to be a sous chef.
(38:13):
And they would look atme and go, no, be a chef.
No, they didn't want it.
They didn't want the responsibility.
It's too stressful.
It was too many hours, you know?
They said, no, I love coming to workand getting to cook, and I get, I get
to be with my friends and work hard,but at the end of the day, I want to
go home and you guys don't go home.
(38:34):
And that's when I realizedthere was a divide.
And that was 2016.
Everything has gottenworse since then, right?
Um, I talked to recruiters probably.
Two, three times a month rightnow, just to see kind of what's
out there, what's going on.
And I will tell you like you and Iare both consultants and I think that
(38:55):
the, the biggest thing that we can do,like if you want a different market
to go into, go into developing chefs.
'cause that's where I'm at and,and I'm not even working on their
food or even in their operation.
I'm literally helping them tounderstand like how to communicate.
How to put on a good meeting.
(39:15):
How to do, how to do a pre-shift meetingthat is two minutes and nothing longer.
And like these little thingsthat I feel like they should be
there, but they're not taught.
They're not, and so much of it.
Here's the other part, allyou, you mentioned Michelin.
Well, I'm old enough that.
In the United States, when Iwas really in the thick of it,
there was no Michelin, right.
(39:36):
It was for us, it was James Beardand, and it was the Zagg guide.
Right?
And now you have the MichelinStars in the United States, and
everybody's going crazy for that.
And that's great.
But it's all about the, it's all about,like you said, the media, the accolades.
And I feel like a lot of those chefs thatare pushing for that, they're forgetting
(39:56):
to bring the team along with them.
You know, oh, well, the,the, I have to say one thing.
The, the, um, what I saw.
More change in this kind of stuff forthe team is much more in the mission,
but because they can, they, they,they, they can work in a different way.
Andrea (40:15):
And that's the set up mission we are talking about.
Especially if you're going tothe two or three mission star.
Uh, I, I saw a few of the threemissions star in New York.
Uh, how they work and, uh, the,the team, how we he react and
how he's acting during the day.
(40:36):
And it's super, super clear and nice.
Uh, I saw service done, uh, notfrom, not from the, from the dining
room, but inside the kitchen as well.
And I was like, wow.
That's the abuse of it.
There is the silence, but it's not a fear.
Silence.
A silence made of fear.
It's a silence made of respect andlove and people that they're there
(41:00):
because they wanna be there and becausethey wanna learn and they wanna.
And they wanna, they want to teachand they, and they're ready for it.
So.
The, the, the, what I see, what I seein New York right now is that, uh, the
product we're having in New York is muchmore in, uh, the fine dining that is
no Michelin or no New York Times, or.
(41:22):
Or the, the, the, the high medium level,which I always work in the, from the,
from the high, high level U usually even.
So Rose was a, was a high level ifa casual high level, uh, casual,
fine dining was, uh, was, uh, safe.
And, uh, it's that I remember the thing ofthe sous chef that I was like, I mean, uh.
(41:49):
At some point I arrived at, uh,I couldn't, I couldn't grow up.
Uh, I couldn't, uh, I couldn'tbuild up a new sous chef, so I
needed to start to look outside.
Um.
And, uh, one of the thing that I wasdoing most of the time is, uh, at some
point when we decide to, uh, to, to,to open much more place, we had two
(42:11):
brands and I was in charge of the Santoside and, uh, uh, we had another brand,
which was Felicia plus another one.
And for the Felicia, we needed another.
Another corporate chef and one ofmy sous chef, one of my oldest sous
chef that he was with me at as well.
And then he came with me at Santa Rose.
(42:31):
He became the, the, the corporate chef.
When I leave the company, the corporatechef that I, uh, that I propose.
It was another one, one, another one of,uh, my sous chef, chef that they were
working with me for, for a few years.
And so at some point with, uh, to, toconvince and to trick, if you wanna
(42:53):
say like that, even sous chef, even,uh, lion cook to become sous chef.
He was like, guys, do you see what,uh, what Amir and the Wilmer did?
I mean, they arrive at the level andthey start from this, from that job.
Yeah.
And, uh, in that way I, I was able to,to, to give the, to give the thing.
But in the end of the day, it's not even,uh, I, I don't like to use that as much.
(43:17):
'cause in the end of the day,it's, uh, I believe that, um.
You need to, you need to have your goal.
And, uh, if a lion cook say likethat to me, I'm like, okay, I'm
not taking a, a no or answer, butI'm like, uh, okay, let's see.
I'm gonna, and in the same time,the other thing is, uh, to, uh,
(43:37):
I start to give him a much more,uh, responsibility in some stuff.
So, some, uh, in some wayhe became a sous chef.
He doesn't, he doesn't know yet.
And then I, then I start to give him araise a little bit, raise every quarter.
And then by the end of the year, heis, uh, is usually him coming to me.
Chef, can I become a, I'mready to become a sous chef?
(44:00):
And I'm like, yeah, you arealready a sous chef, so we just
need to put a title on now.
Simon (44:05):
Yeah.
And that's the beauty of it.
And, uh, but yeah, that's,that's the difficulty.
And, and this becomes a problem,became a problem because of people.
That they're not ready tobe in a leadership position.
'cause those people, theydon't let grow the, the, the,
the, their, uh, their teams.
Uh, they, they act likethey're protecting them.
Andrea (44:29):
We don't know from what, uh, because they a
magic word in, in their mind.
They're beautiful mind andthey're protecting, which we
know, or they're protecting.
They're protecting their self because theyknow that they're not doing the right job.
Uh, I work with, uh.
Uh, with a chef that, uh,he arrived to us as, uh,
(44:53):
as a deputy chef of a placethat I know very well.
So he was already hired by thecompany that I was consulting for.
Uh, and they told me this thing.
I was like, okay.
I never, I stay in silence.
I went to my friend, which isanother big group actually.
I was like, chef, do you know him?
Uh, yeah, I know him.
(45:13):
Okay.
Uh, he said that, uh, he workwith you here as a executive chef.
I was like, no, he's not true.
He was a kitchen manager.
And when I saw that, I was like,I came back to the company.
I was like, guys, youneed to screen better.
You need to do a, a, a real screenwhen you do this kind of stuff.
(45:33):
Hiring process is super important.
The other thing that happenedis the hiring process.
The hiring process.
It became so full of things.
I mean, I did a few interviews lastyear at some point for few projects
that they called me up for, and thethe crazy part is that they call you.
(45:55):
Then they let you do, they're interestedin you, and then they let you do four
five talk, where at some point you arerepeating yourself and you're like,
guys, before COVID, it wasn't like that.
Before COVID, it was one meetingwith the people that they need
to make a decision in the companyduring the meeting and then.
(46:16):
The person in charge of aca of uh, of, uh, payroll.
He was contacting you, yoursupervisor was calling you.
I was like, okay, this is the price.
It is okay for you.
And then you start with thecounter offer and it was done.
Now you are this interview.
And then one of the thing that Isaw, it's a lack, and this is the
(46:36):
problem of leadership, and not justas a chef, but in any department.
Of a, of a restaurant company.
Right now we have lack of leadership,lack of knowledge, and you talk with
the, with the head of the chart maybe,or the chart that is not even the head.
And, uh, she doesn't know the answerthat you are asking her, or she doesn't
(46:57):
know yet how the process will go.
Uh, then you talk with, uh, thesecond step is with a supervisor.
Then the supervisor startto talk to you and then.
Like, yeah, I'm gonna tellyou a few other things.
And then you have to talk with theowner and it's like you arrive at
most of the time when I feel like thatarrive at the, at the third one, I'm
like, look, are you interested or not?
(47:19):
Because I am.
Otherwise I wouldn't be here.
But I wanna make sure becausein the meantime you are letting
me stay there talking to you,and it's one month already.
Maybe I said no to other things,or I'm focusing on this one,
I still have to work for that.
So it's like even that one becomesa problem because, and that's what
(47:41):
I see because in the end of theday, we, the beau the beauty thing
of the United States of Americaand I'm in love with the country.
I'm in love with New York.
Uh, even if I'm in a momentwhere I'm like, I wanna leave
New York, but then I know.
Deep down that is not gonna happen.
Always gonna happen.
But, but I know that it's gonna behard for me to make the decision,
(48:05):
uh, even if I had amazing offer.
And the point is that one, I mean, thinkabout a, a new guy, a sous chef, uh, that
he wants to change the company or wantsto do in some, uh, somehow like that in
the end of the day, you're, you have to dofour or five interviews, which you don't
know anything, and then you are scaredbecause most of the time what I see, I
(48:27):
receive many calls from a recruiter thatthey are asking me about people that they
are, uh, uh, that they are interviewing,that they know they work with me.
They work with me in thepast, and I'm like, okay.
And then I called the guy, I'm like,did you give him, uh, my phone number?
Because maybe I'm, I'm thereference number for few of those,
(48:50):
but when I receive, and I don'tknow, I'm a reference number.
The first thing that I do as afriend, especially, it's like, uh.
Look, do you know about this?
Uh oh.
You are interviewing for that?
Like, how do you know?
They called me up.
I was like, but, uh, I didn'teven give you your number.
And it's weird because at the end of theday, even recruiter, I need to understand
(49:12):
that the rumors starts like that.
Simon (49:16):
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
It's a, it's a crazyworld out there, Andrea.
Yeah, it is.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you forcoming and, and playing.
Um, it's a, it's a wonderful conversation.
It's, it's wonderful to heara different, to hear other
people talk about it, you know?
(49:36):
Um, I. I look forward to what thingscan be in the, in the industry.
Um, but it scares me on a regular basis.
Like we, we have to, we have toteach, we have to teach people how
to take care of each other, right?
Uh, the big one, I say alot is we need to have less.
Me, me, me and more.
(49:58):
We, we, we, you know, but, uh, yeah.
I'm gonna make sure in the show notesthat people can get a get ahold of you
and they can find you on, I think youand I connected on LinkedIn, so we'll
make sure that that's in there and, uh, Iwish you a lot of luck and it sounds like
dinner's gonna be pretty good tonight.
Um, with, with mom and dadand, and cooking and with the
(50:20):
family, I absolutely am envious.
So, um, for all you out there,we'll catch you next time.
And Andrea, thank youso much for joining us.
I appreciate it.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
(50:44):
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Simon (00:31):
tell me, tell me what's going on in your world?
How are, how are things like,what are the challenges?
Tell me what's great.
I'd love to just kinda.
Get some groundwork like what's going on.
Well, uh, I've been for, uh, uh, I'vebeen the corporate chef of, uh, of
a great brand as a SA hospitalitygroup in New York, and not just New
(00:54):
York now, even Colorado, Europe andFlorida for, uh, for eight years.
And it was, uh, it really,really impressive and, uh,
great experience that I had.
Andrea (01:06):
And in these eight years, uh, I, I always remember how
I started in this position ofcorporate chef where I was, uh.
Fresh and young.
And so you, you fell intoyour, into, you fell into your,
uh, old debit of uh, uh Okay.
Being a chef and being a old schoolchef, uh, my, my background of,
(01:28):
uh, of, uh, of kitchen and of, uh,hospitality is all in, uh, in the fine
dining and the Michelin in Europe.
So I had the, the trainingof the old school, uh, uh,
European Way and, uh, and, uh.
I, I, I actually still appreciatethe, the training that I, that I
(01:48):
received back in time, back in thedays, because I felt that it was
the right training for that time.
Uh, still if, uh, if you ask menow, and it happen many times,
that chefs are asking me, oh,how do you treat in this way?
What do you think about,uh, no call, no show?
What do you think aboutthis kind of stuff?
And the reaction of them is, is, uh.
(02:11):
Not always, but most of the timeis like, uh, yeah, they should,
they should find another job.
And I'm like, no, you, you,you, you don't do that anymore.
It is not that.
We need to understand whatis going on in their life.
And uh, and that's the beauty of it.
We work with people and our jobis, uh, one of the fewest few job
that still are made by human being.
(02:34):
Yes.
And I be like that for,uh, for uh, for so long.
So.
Uh, we, we have to deal as leader in the,in this, uh, with, uh, emotion, with, uh,
problems, uh, life, uh, changing, lifechanging problem that, uh, every one of us
is, uh, is, uh, is having here and there.
So.
(02:54):
That's, uh, that's, uh,that's a beautiful thing.
And, uh, and we can make an impact, uh,not just on guest experience, not just
making a dish that is gonna blow themind of a, of a guest by, it's, uh, first
it's, uh, it's the people, it's the staffthat we work with and they work with us.
So, and not for,
Both (03:11):
yeah.
I tell you, I keep the, the phrasethat keeps coming back everywhere I go.
Simon (03:17):
Uh, I was at a conference a year ago and then I was having some
conversations and it just keeps comingback and it's meet them where they are.
Um, you know, I, I, I definitely, I,I grew up in the restaurants of, of.
Some, some really notfancy restaurants right.
(03:38):
From New Mexico to Southern Californiato Massachusetts and Florida.
Um, and I used cooking as a way topropel me to go anywhere I wanted, right?
Um, the good news is I had somegreat, great teachers along the way.
I, I found myself in Californiaworking for some very, very wonderful
restaurateurs and, and some companies and.
(04:02):
It's so fun, fascinating to me as Istart, as I talk to chefs very much
like yourself, but sometimes it's justin a, in a, uh, direct message, a DM
on LinkedIn or Instagram, uh, wherepeople are like, oh, these kids, these
kids, they don't, they don't understand.
And I realized that when, and I'm, and Iwanna know if this is the same for you.
(04:27):
When I was a kid, the old guys, right,the guys in their late thirties,
forties, fifties, they used to tellme what a, like what a little whiner
I was because I wanted, you know,basic, what I thought were basics.
And I thought everygeneration tells the one.
After it.
How, how weak they are.
(04:48):
Right.
And not, and not just in our business.
That's it.
That's easy.
No, that's in life.
I mean, high school, uh,uh, is the same thing.
So, and, and, and it'sokay that to happen.
I mean, the, the, the point thereis not, uh, and I'm sorry if I
interrupt you, your, your, it's okay.
It's okay.
Andrea (05:08):
Is, uh, the, the point there is, uh, this kind of, uh, of
thing is gonna happen and maybe.
It has to happen because it's part of, ofhow we grow up and how we need to grow up.
Uh, the, the thing that has to change isjust the stopping the conversation on,
uh, these kids, they don't understand.
(05:28):
Well word change a lot, thank God,and is gonna changing and changing.
And, uh, most of the time,I mean, I see myself in, uh.
Cooking in a, no, not in the cooking,uh, side, but in the, in the leader side,
the leadership side, how I manage my teambefore and how I manage myself as well.
(05:50):
Uh, before, back in the days I wasworking so many hours, which I'm still
doing it, but now I know what, whenI have to stop and how to stop, which
is during the day you take a walk, youjust, uh, uh, disconnect for 30 minutes.
And I
Both (06:07):
need to stop you for one second.
I'm sorry, my dog is freaking out.
Let me, lemme let him come on.
Come on.
Simon (06:39):
That's what editing is for.
How old is he?
Uh, 14.
Oh, wow.
They're almost 14.
Both I, there are two, and one ofthem, one of them has gotten calmer
while the other one is, I don't know.
He's on pain medications of all kinds, soall of a sudden he's very whiny and jumpy.
(07:02):
Right.
He's a little, he's halfpug, half Chihuahua.
Oh, wow.
So, and he, so he is very spring loaded.
Um, anyway, I, I apologize.
No, it's one of those things, it's likeI gotta put him out and there'll probably
be another edit in the, towards the end.
But let's see, where are we here?
Nine 12.
(07:22):
Okay.
Andrea (07:26):
But yes, as I was saying, is, uh, uh, the, the, the point is how
we, we, we react and how we changeourself, uh, uh, going forward.
I mean, back in the days, uh, when wewere, when we were kids, we were like
pushing hard every day more and more,uh, not feeling pain, not feeling.
(07:46):
And even when we were feeling pain, all.
Or being tired.
We were like, uh, okay.
No, we need to show up.
We need to show off and weneed to shoot the, we need to
show that we, we, we can do it.
Uh, and now we arelike, and now we change.
And now we are like,uh, yeah, I can do it.
But I have people and I, I knowI can trust people to do for me
(08:08):
because I cannot do anymore becauseI'm, I need to, to, to relax.
I need to breathe and stuff like that.
And it's super important.
I mean, that's how, yeah.
Uh, that's how the, thepoint of, uh, they are kids.
The, these kids that don't understandanything can change in Yes, these kids,
they need to learn a lot, which is okay.
(08:30):
Which is part of, uh,of, uh, of, uh, of life.
So,
Both (08:35):
yeah, this is a conversation I was having yesterday and, and
it may, and it just makes myhead kind of tingle a little bit.
Simon (08:43):
And it's not only do we have to accept that there is.
A different way, but we have to adapt.
We have to adapt the way we teach.
Yeah, definitely.
Right?
Um, uh, it, it's this idea that likeeverything has to, has to cue up or
(09:04):
everything has to be done from theperspective of the older, but that's
not necessarily the truth anymore.
Right?
Like, I think that.
I, I, I talked to a chef aboutsix months ago and he goes, oh,
he goes, I just can't, and I said.
All those complaints that they makeabout the way that things are going and
the way things are, they're not wrong.
(09:27):
Right.
Uh, the the funny thing for me is, uh, ifyou start to look at, if you really start
to dig into these computers in front ofus and really dig down deep under Google
and chat GPT, you can find the research.
Yeah.
The research says that that humandecision making go, like, goes down
your capacity to make decisions.
(09:49):
Goes down after seven hours.
Right?
It's, it's true.
Right?
So like I start to tell people,okay, plan how you spend that time.
Right.
You know, and if you can, if you candecrease the intensity at the beginning,
you know, I tell people, go in and like,go into your co to your, to your work
(10:12):
and work on the little tiny things.
Check your email so you'renot, there's no stress.
There's just a little less.
And then give yourself that sevenhours of intensity where you need it.
And then find a way to like not bedoing something big and like I, it
kills me, the people that do theirorders at the end of their day.
I'm like, what are you,what are you doing?
(10:33):
And I, I never understood that thing.
It, it freaks me outevery time it stopped.
And when I, uh, I mean, with them,I was managing, uh, uh, 12, uh, 12
location, uh, around the US market.
Uh, and I had few chefs thatthey were used to do that.
So I wa and I remember a few dfew nights I was there with them.
(10:55):
I was like, do you pleasethe order for, for tomorrow?
Andrea (10:57):
I wanna, I wanna, uh, I wanna see one thing.
They were like, no, no, I'mgonna place a leader tonight.
I was like, what?
And seriously, I was shaking forthem because I was like, how can you
be focused after, after a service,no matter how, how many people, how
many count, get, uh, cover count?
You're gonna do it, buthow can you be focused?
I mean, for me.
(11:19):
And I love being in restaurant.
I, um, my wife, uh, most of the time she,she, she tell me that, uh, I'm, I'm also
spending too much time in a restaurant,but because I love restaurants.
So she understood that.
And, uh, and spending time in a restaurantin a different way of just, uh, being
there and focusing on everything isjust the way that I, that I feel the
(11:40):
restaurant that is different for me.
And, um, and I know, I know whatwas going on in the end of the night
when you're like, oh, I'm done.
Great job guys.
Thank you so much.
See you tomorrow.
And you have nothing to do.
Just change your clothes andleave, which is the thing.
(12:00):
And then the other thing yes.
Is, is the focus side.
That is, uh, super important.
I remember we had, uh.
One time at some point, uh, we arrived todaily restaurant in total for the company.
So we were like, okay, we needto, uh, stretch her out and, uh,
uh, start to do a, uh, a dailycatch up with, uh, each chef.
(12:20):
And so chef.
So we were doing this meeting, 30minutes meeting, uh, four days a week.
Tuesday to Friday usually was,uh, and Friday, usually at some
point I was like, in the morning,guys, it's canceled for today.
Don't worry.
I have a great service.
I'll see you later.
'cause I know how Friday night,Friday afternoon, uh, it becomes,
and then in New York especially,but everywhere in the world.
(12:42):
It becomes, uh, a little bit crazy and,uh, you don't wanna spend time in, uh, as
a chef, you don't wanna spend time in ameeting because that 30 minutes, if you
can spare the 30 minutes you wanna spendoutside a little bit smoking a cigarette,
if you're smoking, uh, drinking water,just calling your fiance or just, uh,
breathing so yeah, is very important.
(13:04):
Uh, and them meeting in thebeginning was so harsh for everyone.
And I was like, uh, in thebeginning I was like, why guys?
You don't wanna understand thisis important and stuff like that.
And then at some point, uh, I start to.
Be in location at that time.
Because usually for the, for the meetingI was in, uh, I was in my office and
I was like, no, I'm doing this wrong.
(13:26):
It's me that is doing this wrong.
So I start to do location per location,taking the chef with me in the office, uh,
in the restaurant or in the dining room.
And I was like, uh, okay,let's do this meeting.
And then I figure it out.
Fuck guys, I Sorry for the swear.
I just, that's okay.
I, I choose the wrong time first thing.
(13:46):
And second of all, I didn't ask you whenyou wanna do this meeting, and that's why
you are pissed off with me and you are,uh, frustrated a little bit with that.
So at some point we did that meeting.
I was like, okay guys, you choosethe day, you choose the time, you
choose what you wanna talk about.
I'm gonna have my thingsto say in the meeting.
Uh, it's gonna be just a fewthings of a reminder of an
(14:08):
inventory of it was basicallyjust a meeting to be all together.
Uh, when we were growing because inthe end of the day, you start to, to
to spend so much time in the newestlocation and the old way, or the oldest,
uh, one that, uh, they work very well.
The chef is super aware.
Yeah.
You talk with him with the phone, butthe human contact is always something.
(14:29):
Uh, even for five minutes aday is something that change,
uh, changes everything.
Both (14:34):
Absolutely.
You know, uh, I. Youused to hate meetings.
I, I really did.
As a, as a, as a sous chef and achef, and very similar to you, I,
I had that time where it was like,okay, the company said, you need
to start to do these meetings and.
Simon (14:52):
It, it took me a few years and once I got there I realized, you know,
we also, we also u utilize this system.
Uh, what is the book?
The book is Traction, right?
And it's all about this on this like an.
Operating system, the entrepreneurialoperating system, and it talks about all
the things that you need for the meeting.
(15:13):
And I realized, huh?
Just exactly what you said, it'slike we need to start on time, we
need to end on time, and then therestarts to become some respect, right?
Yeah.
Because, you know, we started totime the meetings, we, you know,
and I would tell them, I was like,so I'm running around from across
seven units, sometimes just four and.
(15:36):
I said, you know, your time isvaluable, but what, what we can do
in these meetings is really keepyou on track and moving forward,
there's extreme value in it, right?
Um, and I used to tell 'em, I'mlike, you need to tell me every time.
The two or three things that are notworking for you, you know, even, even
(15:57):
if it's a, is a stupid thing, like, oh,the fridge today is not in temperature.
Andrea (16:01):
Even if you already reported as a chef and you tell me, I know
that I can help you and I know that.
We know that you as a chef thatis responsible directly for that,
you're gonna feel valued and you'regonna feel respected and stress.
To free up.
You got, you have the time there.
(16:22):
And it's super, super important becausein the end of the day, one of the things
that I always said to, to, to chef,and I have a perfect example for that,
uh, talking about the bad way to dothis job, uh, which I just finish a,
a consulting that, uh, he, he was, uh.
I cannot, I cannot dona I cannot say name.
(16:44):
I cannot pronounce anything.
But I, I can say somestuff that I saw there.
Uh, but one of the things that I wassaying to my chef was like, uh, use
every time that you have with me.
Accept the time that I need to speakwith you about some stuff, but use
that time to just free yourself up.
(17:06):
So if, uh, a manager answer you in abad way, if you have a problem with the
person, if you have a problem with the,with the dish, if you have a problem
with the maintenance, if you have problemwith everything around the restaurant
business, around your restaurant,just use me to do that and then I'll
take care of the problem or I can.
(17:26):
I can help you in, uh, figure out orlooking at the problem a different way.
And that's for me, that is, uh, again.
I love cooking.
I have a strong, strongpassion for cooking.
I mean, I'm, uh, I'm here doing, uh,r and d for two weeks, uh, in Italy.
I came, uh, I'm in my parents' housenow and I came here and the first
(17:48):
thing that I did, I didn't have anyevents, just r and d, so I didn't even
to, uh, I need, I didn't need to bringmy knife sat and stuff like that.
The first thing that I put in myluggage was, uh, was my knife roll.
And, uh, my parents had were like, whyyou bring your, you brought your knife
roll, you're gonna be here a few days.
(18:08):
I was like, don't worry, we're gonna cook.
And now tonight, uh, tonight, tomorrow,I'm gonna cook a lot with them.
So that's, that's the beauty of it.
But in the end, uh, uh, thefirst thing as a leader beside
cooking, which that is already a,a. A base that you need to have.
Otherwise, you, you cannotbe in that position.
(18:28):
And that's the mistake that mostof the people, uh, that most of
the people make, which is, oh yeah.
But when I see, I saw conversation, uh.
Owner to current directorand corporate chef.
They were like, yeah, but I wantto see you back in the line.
And I was like, wait a second.
(18:48):
You are, you are asking your currentdirector, which you are paying a lot of
money also to manage the, the department,so your restaurant and stuff like that.
And this was one of the, my,uh, my, my last consulting,
which was another company.
And uh, I was like, you arepaying, first of all, as business.
You are paying a person to do a joband you wanted him to do another job.
(19:11):
So business side, you are already wrong.
Second of all, you are demeaningthis person because you are not
saying that is good on cooking side,which it should be already good.
And, and third, it's, andthis side is already done.
So once you arrive in those position,you, you don't forget about cooking.
(19:33):
You cook a lot and you can cook a lot.
Yeah.
Still, you have to cook with your teams.
And that's the beauty.
I, I, I remember I used to do, Idid all the tasting where on my side
I am, uh, I'm a little bit crazyand the OCD in this kind of stuff.
So all label, all uh, all stuff superorganize, all the core container,
(19:55):
uh, uh, at the, at the level that,uh, we need for the recipe, for
the test and stuff like that.
But the point of me was like, uh, uh,we were planning the, the menus or the
photo shooting and stuff like that.
We were doing location, so I wastaking the chef of the location.
I was like, okay, the free, free yourselfup from service and stuff like that.
(20:18):
Because for today's, we're gonnabe shoulder by shoulder doing
everything you and I together.
And that's a beauty, that's a beautifulthing that we were involved in.
The pasta guy or the grillguy, or the garbage guy.
But that's the beauty of it, becauseyou create a culture and that's the,
the the most important thing that.
In, especially in a business likerestaurant business, where again,
(20:42):
we are working between human beingsand we have the responsibility
to feed other human beings.
So, okay.
It's super important because we need tofeel the responsibility and to feel the.
Serious of, of this act that we aremaking because we are giving people food.
They go that they're gonna ingest.
(21:03):
So the food has to be perfect andnot just in taste, even in quality.
Yeah.
We need to take care of that.
And most of the time, laterecently, especially, I see.
So much careless about this kind of stuff,and I'm a little bit worried about this.
And, uh, but, but then I understoodwhy, because most of the people,
(21:25):
they are, they're not, they're, theydon't have the base to do this kind
of, uh, of, uh, of quality control.
Uh, and, uh, and, and that's, that'sa shame and that's a big problem.
Both (21:40):
Yeah, I think that.
For me, l looking out as a, as aleader and somebody who's trying to
help leaders get better, the, the,the one word I can say to them all
day long is teach, teach, teach more.
Right?
As the, as the people that are alittle bit older, we have to go back.
Simon (21:59):
Like I, I find myself, like even as a consultant and as an advisor
to the chefs, I find myself like.
Pulling the chef aside andgoing, Hey, try this, try that.
And he's like, well, uh, I, you, youweren't hired to help me with the food.
I'm like, I know, but I tasted it.
And trust me, you need to work on that.
Uh, but I think that like the levelof teaching or the level of talent.
(22:24):
Right.
I think you would agree.
It's a little bit more like I, wetalk about the talent pool, right?
We talk about it's just shallower becauseso many of the cooks are tired of, of
the grind and they're tired of that andthey've gotten out right out here on the
west coast in Seattle, I, I can countabout 15 or 20 cooks that are good cooks.
(22:46):
They've been around, they'veworked in good restaurants.
They work for Amazon.
Now.
They drive, they, they do other things.
Yeah, because it stops beingfun, you know, for them.
And so there are so many positions openand everywhere I talk, every chef I
talk to, I say, what's your challenge?
And the, the first word outtatheir mouth is staffing.
(23:06):
You know?
But I think that nowadays it is our jobto, to teach, but also, how do I say this?
I want people to teach whatthey know, but also teach.
The, the, uh, teach how theywant to be teaching is the, is
the only way to say it, right?
(23:27):
Like Yeah, it's true.
Definitely.
Because, because we can't, we can'tdo the old fashioned way of just
fear and, and yelling, you know?
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
(23:48):
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
notes to connect with me directly.
Um, I, and I don't know where I saw it, but I saw a guy on, on my little
phone in the, in the social media talkingabout how close to a hundred years ago.
(24:11):
You know, the pressures startedto increase in restaurants and,
and over the last, each decadegets more and more and more.
And at some point they just, the, theleaders that our chefs, they decided
that they had to get the resultsand they didn't know how to do it.
So they just did it.
The only way they knew how,which was to scream and to
yell, but now we can't do that.
(24:33):
But now the problem is that they don'thave the tool, the one major tool
that has fed us for a hundred years.
So now we're just not people.
Now they're just tryingto do it themselves.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that you seethat, you see the chefs just trying to
grind it out instead of understandingwhat it is to communicate effectively,
(24:55):
what it is to delegate, what it,you know, and those words are hard.
So I tell people, I'm like, just teach,teach more and then ask them to, and
then ask people to come with you.
The problem, the problem of, uh,of, uh, being able to teach is
that, uh, you need to have zero ego.
And, uh, that's theother problem that I see.
(25:16):
Uh, one of the last consulting thatI did, uh, they, they had already a
corporate, uh, executive chef that.
Andrea (25:26):
That wasn't ready to deposition, honestly.
Uh, and, um, in many ways managingfood from the COGS side, which
I don't want to talk about.
And the, the thing that, uh,worried me a lot and uh, was, uh,
more, more scared to me was the.
The communication side, and it was like,why you are not communicating, right?
(25:50):
Why you have this attitude, why you?
And then I understood, I saw how thisperson was interested in, uh, media.
I was interested in, in having, uh,as, uh, the face on, uh, on a, on a
post, the, the, the thing like that.
I was like, in the end of the day.
One day, this, this world is gonna end.
So in the end of the day, you'regonna arrive at some point where the
(26:13):
media doesn't interest you anymore,doesn't, is not interested in you
anymore because it's gonna be anotherone of you, other three of you.
That's the point.
I mean, uh, and, and I felt thatthing of the ego because coming from a
mission, uh, a mission, uh, culture, youare like, uh, your ego is super high,
especially when you are young becauseyour, your goal is okay, I want to have
(26:37):
a, uh, the, the, the mission start ofmy, of my heart, which now I, I get it.
I, I'm, no, I'm not interested anymoreand I never get the mission start.
I work for Mission Start, buthonestly, it's not my goal anymore.
I love to cook.
I love to feed people.
I love to treat people well and towork with people and to create and
(26:58):
build up a culture and hospitality.
So that's my goal.
But, um, when I was talking to thisperson, I was like, what makes you,
why you are frustrated, why you are soinsecure about this, uh, about delegating?
And, uh, the, the answer was sounclear, oh, because the ownership
needs me to do this kind of stuff.
(27:19):
Then I start to look better at thebig picture, and I was like, okay.
You called me to build up, to helpyou build up the current department
on this side and, uh, uh, to grow thisposition, this person in this position
to make this position, this personvery, very good at this, at this job.
(27:40):
And, and to help you growup, grow, grow the, the, the
business itself and the company.
'cause you wanna open more and more.
And you wanna becomemuch more incorporated.
You already have six restaurant andnow you wanna go at nine, so this is
right time to do this kind of stuff.
You're even a little bit late.
And then I start to realizewe were doing meetings and the
(28:00):
meetings were one hour meeting.
It was one hour and 45talking about nothing.
And I was like, I, I, I sat in, uh, Isat down in uh, three, four meetings
of the, the operation meetings everyweek was a. At some point, one of the
last meeting that I did, I was like,okay, they're almost done with my
consulting with you, with my period.
(28:22):
I'm not interested in renewingthe consulting with you guys.
And, uh, but I don'twanna leave you like that.
So, uh, let's finish.
I have, uh, still, I still have.
Couple of three, three weeksI had, I was like, okay.
I was like, uh, let'stalk about financial.
And I started to talk about financial.
I start to talk about, and not justthe point of most of the meeting that I
(28:46):
assist in many of, uh, of, of, uh, my,my career is like, oh, this restaurant
is making, uh, 10, $10,000 less thanlast year, week by week per week,
week, uh, this week versus last week.
Last year, week.
Yeah, the weather.
And when I, uh, when I heard this answer,especially from the owner, no, not from
(29:08):
the CFO, because the CFO, it gives youthe number, then it's you operational
that you have to say something.
Then the director operation saythat the corporate chef, the current
director say that, and I'm like, guys.
It cannot be just the weather, especiallyin the city, York cannot be the weather.
So please don't say that.
Let's analyze.
Then of course, last Tuesdaythere was a big storm.
(29:30):
Of course no one was around, ofcourse, but we are talking about
one day, one week, so it cannotruin your week in the, in this week.
And then I was like, okay, maybeyou are, uh, we start to talk.
And I was like, uh.
I was like, all right, so you arelosing 10 K this week versus last week.
Last year versus the same week last year.
(29:51):
Like maybe it's super hotright now and the menu is super
wintery and we are in June.
I was like, do you understandthat this menu cannot work
in this kind of environment?
Last year, same week was cold.
That's how you have to look atweather, not the day that is raining
and talking about this kind of stuff.
I saw.
(30:12):
There was a blind, uh, blind concept aboutthat empty, empty, empty, empty screening.
And I was like, okay, maybe you are notready to, to, to expand your company.
So just think about that because inthe end of the day, uh, the other
thing that I like is, uh, the firthat I like is when I see place with
(30:36):
a lot of potential zero culture.
And zero understandingof how to make a culture.
And, uh, and that'sthe, that's where then.
We all work in place like that.
We all have to do in place like that.
Uh, when we were kids, when we,even when we are older now, few
times it happened and, uh, the thingthat happened is that people are
(31:00):
leaving from this kind of company.
They don't wanna work like that.
They prefer to go to work at Amazon,OPS Walgreen or, or something like that.
And why?
Because it's stress free.
Because most of the peoplearrive at some point in time and
they're like, this is just a job.
No matter how much passion I have,I don't want to treat it like shik.
I don't wanna treat it like that.
(31:20):
I don't wanna, uh, ruin my life and,uh, and not being able to live my
life with my friends, my, my, my wife.
So to make the sacrifice Ineed to, to feel respected.
To follow my dream and to follow my goal.
And that's what happened with me.
But I remember I did the, the, thehospitality, uh, school here in, uh, here
(31:45):
in, uh, in Italy when I was, uh, a kid.
And, uh, in my classroom, in, uh, inthe last year we were 25, 24 people,
just four of us kept doing this job.
I was talking to one of those,which, uh, became also a, a
strong journalist here in Italy.
Uh, last year.
(32:06):
I was with him, uh, having a, havinga, a coffee in the morning and it
was like, uh, uh, I'm, so, it wastelling me about this, this thing.
And I was like, uh, I'm sohappy for you that you keep,
uh, you kept doing that one.
And, uh, and I know.
The stress and whatever you did.
And, uh, they follow you.
(32:26):
And we, we, we were intouch and stuff like that.
I was like, but why you didn'tkept, uh, going, I mean, I knew
that you were, you love journalists.
Journalists and stuff like that.
It was like, honestly, I love it,but it was my second choice because
I arrived to work in a place afterschool and I felt so disrespected that
I felt I, I was feeling sick every day.
(32:50):
And when I heard that, I was like, wewere, we, we started this conversation.
I was like, see, that's, that's theproblem that we had in this business.
Yes.
And that's the, the, the, thebiggest, the biggest, biggest problem.
We are always talking.
No one wants to do this job.
We are always, uh, putting aas chef, oh, you are a chef.
(33:11):
You know how pain it is.
No guys, that, that's it.
Let's not the bear.
The birth, it's fucking shame becausethey're picturing the first season.
I love that first season because atsome point it was like, uh, recreating
our world, our old school world.
(33:33):
And it was true.
It was real, it was passionand uh, and I felt you Wait,
Both (33:38):
wait, wait.
It was traumatic too.
Yeah.
Don't forget traumatic, okay, go.
Andrea (33:44):
But because in the end of, and that's what was real, because
in the end of the day we had not thelevel because the level, it's like,
guys, you need a team of therapistafter, after what experience?
Uh, as, as a chef, I mean, I neverwork with a. With a chef piece of
shit that he was telling me, this kindof stuff, because I was also a piece
(34:04):
of shit as well when I was a kid.
So at some point I was drawing a line.
I mean, I'm not, I, I know whenI, when, when I have to stop and
I know well when to stop you asa chef to be disrespectful to me.
But the point is, uh.
Now they're still picturingthis kind of stuff.
I mean, the last season, I'm, I'mwatching it because I wanna see, because
(34:27):
I know how the impact that is havingon, uh, on the youngest, on the new
generation of a chef and, uh, is super,super weird and not good because.
We arrived at the last, at the last,at the last episode where he wants
to leave the restaurant to deal withthis problem because he know, he knew.
(34:48):
He, he, he knows that he's theproblem, which is the most bullshit
thing to do, and still ego.
Yeah, because your lifedepends, depend on your job.
Yes.
Somehow, yes.
But in the, in the same way, we areall working a restaurant business.
We are all doing a lotof hours, a lot of days.
(35:11):
You can draw the line at five, then you'regonna have to work, especially as for
leader, you're gonna answer to the phone.
Uh, when you're on your day off, it's nota problem, but you are doing it in a, in
another way, which is much more, you know,you are giving support and it's part of
your, uh, of your, of your soul as well.
But that kind of stuff was saying, oh,I'm gonna leave because I have to deal
(35:34):
with my things because I'm the problem.
It's like admitting that this, uh, thisrestaurant, the restaurant business is
just where you are in or you are out.
Which is the strongestbullshit I ever heard.
And it's, and then you see theyoung chef that they believe
that, and I have tattoos.
And now with the, the word I'm like,uh, um, uh, with all the younger
(35:59):
generation that they have knife andstuff like that, I just have this
one with a fork, knife and spoon.
And it's always covered with my shirtand stuff like that, but it's like
they believe that having a knife, uh,tattoo, it's, uh, it makes you a chef.
They believe that, uh, screaming andbe being the way it makes you a chef.
No, guys, it's, it'sa lot of other things.
(36:21):
I mean, I work with many.
Strong executive chef, a many currentdirector that they know what they know,
how to do it, what to do, and whento, and when do it, and when to do it.
And, uh, it's the beauty, the beauty ofit is that you learn from them without
even a feeling that they are teaching you.
Both (36:45):
Yeah, it's, it's amazing what can happen when you get somebody who
ha understands how to communicateand how, how to be a leader.
Uh, for me, I, I, I get into the,I always get into this conversation
of, oh, we have to learn the food,learn the food, learn the food.
Simon (37:06):
But what happened to like, not just, it's, it's about how we,
how we communicate and how we teach.
That really speaks to be how we, howwe groom the leaders of tomorrow.
'cause right now we're in apro, there's a problem, right?
Like I, I, I fear for the quality ofrestaurants and I fear for there's
(37:29):
always gonna be the high echelon.
There's always gonna bethose, those top right.
And they'll, they'll do whatthey do and people will.
Continue.
But I think especially in the UnitedStates, there's this level of restaurant
that is one or two rungs below that.
Yeah.
And people can't find, people can't stop.
They can't find chefs for them.
They can't find sous chefs.
(37:50):
You know, uh, sous chefs started to becomean endangered species about 10 years ago.
Yeah, it's true.
It's true.
'cause because the onesthat were good became chefs.
But so many people, and I, I experiencedthis in my company that I was working
for so many of my cooks, I would goto them and say, you are amazing.
Like, let me work with you andwe'll get you to be a sous chef.
(38:13):
And they would look atme and go, no, be a chef.
No, they didn't want it.
They didn't want the responsibility.
It's too stressful.
It was too many hours, you know?
They said, no, I love coming to workand getting to cook, and I get, I get
to be with my friends and work hard,but at the end of the day, I want to
go home and you guys don't go home.
(38:34):
And that's when I realizedthere was a divide.
And that was 2016.
Everything has gottenworse since then, right?
Um, I talked to recruiters probably.
Two, three times a month rightnow, just to see kind of what's
out there, what's going on.
And I will tell you like you and Iare both consultants and I think that
(38:55):
the, the biggest thing that we can do,like if you want a different market
to go into, go into developing chefs.
'cause that's where I'm at and,and I'm not even working on their
food or even in their operation.
I'm literally helping them tounderstand like how to communicate.
How to put on a good meeting.
(39:15):
How to do, how to do a pre-shift meetingthat is two minutes and nothing longer.
And like these little thingsthat I feel like they should be
there, but they're not taught.
They're not, and so much of it.
Here's the other part, allyou, you mentioned Michelin.
Well, I'm old enough that.
In the United States, when Iwas really in the thick of it,
there was no Michelin, right.
(39:36):
It was for us, it was James Beardand, and it was the Zagg guide.
Right?
And now you have the MichelinStars in the United States, and
everybody's going crazy for that.
And that's great.
But it's all about the, it's all about,like you said, the media, the accolades.
And I feel like a lot of those chefs thatare pushing for that, they're forgetting
(39:56):
to bring the team along with them.
You know, oh, well, the,the, I have to say one thing.
The, the, um, what I saw.
More change in this kind of stuff forthe team is much more in the mission,
but because they can, they, they,they, they can work in a different way.
Andrea (40:15):
And that's the set up mission we are talking about.
Especially if you're going tothe two or three mission star.
Uh, I, I saw a few of the threemissions star in New York.
Uh, how they work and, uh, the,the team, how we he react and
how he's acting during the day.
(40:36):
And it's super, super clear and nice.
Uh, I saw service done, uh, notfrom, not from the, from the dining
room, but inside the kitchen as well.
And I was like, wow.
That's the abuse of it.
There is the silence, but it's not a fear.
Silence.
A silence made of fear.
It's a silence made of respect andlove and people that they're there
(41:00):
because they wanna be there and becausethey wanna learn and they wanna.
And they wanna, they want to teachand they, and they're ready for it.
So.
The, the, the, what I see, what I seein New York right now is that, uh, the
product we're having in New York is muchmore in, uh, the fine dining that is
no Michelin or no New York Times, or.
(41:22):
Or the, the, the, the high medium level,which I always work in the, from the,
from the high, high level U usually even.
So Rose was a, was a high level ifa casual high level, uh, casual,
fine dining was, uh, was, uh, safe.
And, uh, it's that I remember the thing ofthe sous chef that I was like, I mean, uh.
(41:49):
At some point I arrived at, uh,I couldn't, I couldn't grow up.
Uh, I couldn't, uh, I couldn'tbuild up a new sous chef, so I
needed to start to look outside.
Um.
And, uh, one of the thing that I wasdoing most of the time is, uh, at some
point when we decide to, uh, to, to,to open much more place, we had two
(42:11):
brands and I was in charge of the Santoside and, uh, uh, we had another brand,
which was Felicia plus another one.
And for the Felicia, we needed another.
Another corporate chef and one ofmy sous chef, one of my oldest sous
chef that he was with me at as well.
And then he came with me at Santa Rose.
(42:31):
He became the, the, the corporate chef.
When I leave the company, the corporatechef that I, uh, that I propose.
It was another one, one, another one of,uh, my sous chef, chef that they were
working with me for, for a few years.
And so at some point with, uh, to, toconvince and to trick, if you wanna
(42:53):
say like that, even sous chef, even,uh, lion cook to become sous chef.
He was like, guys, do you see what,uh, what Amir and the Wilmer did?
I mean, they arrive at the level andthey start from this, from that job.
Yeah.
And, uh, in that way I, I was able to,to, to give the, to give the thing.
But in the end of the day, it's not even,uh, I, I don't like to use that as much.
(43:17):
'cause in the end of the day,it's, uh, I believe that, um.
You need to, you need to have your goal.
And, uh, if a lion cook say likethat to me, I'm like, okay, I'm
not taking a, a no or answer, butI'm like, uh, okay, let's see.
I'm gonna, and in the same time,the other thing is, uh, to, uh,
(43:37):
I start to give him a much more,uh, responsibility in some stuff.
So, some, uh, in some wayhe became a sous chef.
He doesn't, he doesn't know yet.
And then I, then I start to give him araise a little bit, raise every quarter.
And then by the end of the year, heis, uh, is usually him coming to me.
Chef, can I become a, I'mready to become a sous chef?
(44:00):
And I'm like, yeah, you arealready a sous chef, so we just
need to put a title on now.
Simon (44:05):
Yeah.
And that's the beauty of it.
And, uh, but yeah, that's,that's the difficulty.
And, and this becomes a problem,became a problem because of people.
That they're not ready tobe in a leadership position.
'cause those people, theydon't let grow the, the, the,
the, their, uh, their teams.
Uh, they, they act likethey're protecting them.
Andrea (44:29):
We don't know from what, uh, because they a
magic word in, in their mind.
They're beautiful mind andthey're protecting, which we
know, or they're protecting.
They're protecting their self because theyknow that they're not doing the right job.
Uh, I work with, uh.
Uh, with a chef that, uh,he arrived to us as, uh,
(44:53):
as a deputy chef of a placethat I know very well.
So he was already hired by thecompany that I was consulting for.
Uh, and they told me this thing.
I was like, okay.
I never, I stay in silence.
I went to my friend, which isanother big group actually.
I was like, chef, do you know him?
Uh, yeah, I know him.
(45:13):
Okay.
Uh, he said that, uh, he workwith you here as a executive chef.
I was like, no, he's not true.
He was a kitchen manager.
And when I saw that, I was like,I came back to the company.
I was like, guys, youneed to screen better.
You need to do a, a, a real screenwhen you do this kind of stuff.
(45:33):
Hiring process is super important.
The other thing that happenedis the hiring process.
The hiring process.
It became so full of things.
I mean, I did a few interviews lastyear at some point for few projects
that they called me up for, and thethe crazy part is that they call you.
(45:55):
Then they let you do, they're interestedin you, and then they let you do four
five talk, where at some point you arerepeating yourself and you're like,
guys, before COVID, it wasn't like that.
Before COVID, it was one meetingwith the people that they need
to make a decision in the companyduring the meeting and then.
(46:16):
The person in charge of aca of uh, of, uh, payroll.
He was contacting you, yoursupervisor was calling you.
I was like, okay, this is the price.
It is okay for you.
And then you start with thecounter offer and it was done.
Now you are this interview.
And then one of the thing that Isaw, it's a lack, and this is the
(46:36):
problem of leadership, and not justas a chef, but in any department.
Of a, of a restaurant company.
Right now we have lack of leadership,lack of knowledge, and you talk with
the, with the head of the chart maybe,or the chart that is not even the head.
And, uh, she doesn't know the answerthat you are asking her, or she doesn't
(46:57):
know yet how the process will go.
Uh, then you talk with, uh, thesecond step is with a supervisor.
Then the supervisor startto talk to you and then.
Like, yeah, I'm gonna tellyou a few other things.
And then you have to talk with theowner and it's like you arrive at
most of the time when I feel like thatarrive at the, at the third one, I'm
like, look, are you interested or not?
(47:19):
Because I am.
Otherwise I wouldn't be here.
But I wanna make sure becausein the meantime you are letting
me stay there talking to you,and it's one month already.
Maybe I said no to other things,or I'm focusing on this one,
I still have to work for that.
So it's like even that one becomesa problem because, and that's what
(47:41):
I see because in the end of theday, we, the beau the beauty thing
of the United States of Americaand I'm in love with the country.
I'm in love with New York.
Uh, even if I'm in a momentwhere I'm like, I wanna leave
New York, but then I know.
Deep down that is not gonna happen.
Always gonna happen.
But, but I know that it's gonna behard for me to make the decision,
(48:05):
uh, even if I had amazing offer.
And the point is that one, I mean, thinkabout a, a new guy, a sous chef, uh, that
he wants to change the company or wantsto do in some, uh, somehow like that in
the end of the day, you're, you have to dofour or five interviews, which you don't
know anything, and then you are scaredbecause most of the time what I see, I
(48:27):
receive many calls from a recruiter thatthey are asking me about people that they
are, uh, uh, that they are interviewing,that they know they work with me.
They work with me in thepast, and I'm like, okay.
And then I called the guy, I'm like,did you give him, uh, my phone number?
Because maybe I'm, I'm thereference number for few of those,
(48:50):
but when I receive, and I don'tknow, I'm a reference number.
The first thing that I do as afriend, especially, it's like, uh.
Look, do you know about this?
Uh oh.
You are interviewing for that?
Like, how do you know?
They called me up.
I was like, but, uh, I didn'teven give you your number.
And it's weird because at the end of theday, even recruiter, I need to understand
(49:12):
that the rumors starts like that.
Simon (49:16):
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
It's a, it's a crazyworld out there, Andrea.
Yeah, it is.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you forcoming and, and playing.
Um, it's a, it's a wonderful conversation.
It's, it's wonderful to heara different, to hear other
people talk about it, you know?
(49:36):
Um, I. I look forward to what thingscan be in the, in the industry.
Um, but it scares me on a regular basis.
Like we, we have to, we have toteach, we have to teach people how
to take care of each other, right?
Uh, the big one, I say alot is we need to have less.
Me, me, me and more.
(49:58):
We, we, we, you know, but, uh, yeah.
I'm gonna make sure in the show notesthat people can get a get ahold of you
and they can find you on, I think youand I connected on LinkedIn, so we'll
make sure that that's in there and, uh, Iwish you a lot of luck and it sounds like
dinner's gonna be pretty good tonight.
Um, with, with mom and dadand, and cooking and with the
(50:20):
family, I absolutely am envious.
So, um, for all you out there,we'll catch you next time.
And Andrea, thank youso much for joining us.
I appreciate it.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
(50:44):
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
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