October 14, 2025 • 36 mins
Build a kitchen where you’re the accelerator - not the crutch. In this episode, Chef Franck Desplechin lays out a straight path from talented-but-chaotic to calm, accountable, and scalable. We break down why sous chefs stall, how to teach leadership like a skill, and the mindset shift that turns “chef-as-hero” into “chef-as-vision.” We get specific on training the “why,” making yourself operationally irrelevant (on purpose), and building systems that raise standards without burning people out.
You’ll leave with field-tested plays for restaurant systems, kitchen leadership, chef culture, and operational clarity—built for the restaurant operator who needs results, not theory.
Connect with Franck Desplechin
Website: cheffranck.com
LinkedIn: Franck Desplechin
Connect with Simon
Email: simon@culinarymechanic.com
Book a Call: https://calendly.com/culinarymechanic/discovery
Website: https://www.culinarymechanic.com
If you want a kitchen that runs without you white-knuckling every service, subscribe to the newsletter—or book a call and let’s build it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Simon (00:31):
Joining me today is Chef Frank.
Chef, welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
How are you?
franck (00:37):
I'm good.
How are you?
Thanks for having me, chef Simon.
Appreciate that.
Excited for this episode.
Simon (00:43):
Uh, I. As I was saying, as we were getting warmed up here,
I just love it when I meet otherchefs who are doing different stuff.
I hate to use such a technicalterm, but it is right.
It's like we're out there inthe world helping other people.
Um, you know, uh, we're gonna get totalk about this shortly, but you got
(01:03):
a book coming out today and that thatall by itself is super, super special.
So, um.
As has become norm on culinary mechanic.
I'm just gonna say, let's press on the gasand ask how'd you get into this industry?
Like how did it all begin?
franck (01:21):
Uh, um, I, I mean, it, it started very, very young.
Um, I, um, grew up inFrance and both my parents.
Were amazing cooks, differentway, but amazing cooks.
And, uh, my curiosity I think justkind of got me, um, to be, um,
just following somewhat of, uh, uh,breadcrumbs that got me into the kitchen.
(01:44):
And I started very young.
I started, it was, uh, just, uh, justshy of 15 years old and, and up in,
uh, apprentice and, uh, apprenticeship.
And then I, um, I just kind of followedthis, uh, this thing that got me into.
Learning skills, soft skills,hard skills, culinary skills.
And then, uh, that just, you know,when you're good at something and
(02:05):
you people make you feel good,you just, there's no point going
and looking for something else.
You just keep doing it.
And, and here you are, you're lookingbackwards and it's been 10 years in
the industry and you like to thinkthat you someone and then you add
another 10 years to that, and thenyou just made a career out of it.
So it's, uh, it, it's, I, I, I think,um, yeah, I, I, I got to it really
by the, the, you know, France, um.
(02:27):
Has a lot of, uh, food andbeverage in the culture.
And, uh, it, it, it's, it,there's a lot of stories.
So it was, it was hard for me tonot be attracted by, uh, by, uh,
just becoming a chef because there'sso much to offer in this country.
Simon (02:46):
I love it.
Um, I, you hit on something thatlike, it's, it's deep culturally
and I think that that's, um.
It's what I want for the United States.
It's what I want for America.
Right.
Like that, that we have something thatis deep, that isn't just for, oh, we're
just the USA, um, I, I, I know that asbeing somebody who's been in the kitchen
(03:09):
pretty much my whole life as well.
Um, France is always the Northstar in a lot, in a lot of
the kitchens I worked and.
It's interesting to talk.
I, I've actually, one of my mentors,uh, wa was from Normandy and he,
(03:30):
he just would talk all the timeabout the things that they would do,
like just the way things were done.
So I, I truly appreciate that.
Um, you know, how, how would you say like.
You spent your career in it, now you'regetting to go out and you're doing some
consulting and you're writing a book.
(03:52):
How has that all, like, tell me howthat became a through line for you.
franck (03:57):
Um, I don't know if it was a through line, um, but
there's definitely been, um.
I think I focused a lotof my, the beginning of my
career to just be a good cook.
Then I dec then I got into themanagement and decided to be a good chef.
Um, and then, um, over time I became,I was as much, I was, uh, deep into
(04:18):
pastry and I was into culinary.
I was at, mm-hmm.
I was a pastry chef.
I was an exec chef.
And then, um, eventually Ibecame a director of food and
beverage for luxury resorts.
And, um, what got me into.
Finding out that I had a, I don'tknow, maybe would, would describe
as a philosophy, kind of the wayI approach leadership and the way
(04:41):
I approach culture and, uh, and,um, you know, I, I just was, um.
I, I, I, I don't really like to put it outthere, like kind of leading by example.
I think it's overused.
Uh, I, I, I, I just think that I wasjust, uh, enjoying what I was doing.
This.
There never been really days that Ifelt like I was working for no reason.
(05:01):
Um, so, so I really felt like I was, uh.
Compelled to do it right, becausethere was the right way of doing it.
And um, and, and so during the COVIDyears, um, when I, um, the whole
world of hospitality was on standby,um, I am someone that by nature
doesn't know how to stay on standby.
I don't know what it, what that means.
(05:22):
I'm someone that needs to keep moving.
And, um, so there was nothing betterfor me that, uh, certifying myself
to be a coach, speaker, and trainer.
And that opened my voice and thatfound me a messaging that I was
able to translate into hospitality.
And, uh, very quickly, the, the, thepeople that was working alongside me,
responding to my leadership made merealize that, uh, maybe I actually.
(05:48):
I have, uh, somewhat of a secret sauce.
Maybe I have a, a recipe thatsome people can relate to.
And I, um, I, I, I just wanted to shareit with the, the, the future leaders of
hospitality, the student of hospitality,the one that, uh, does not necessarily
their receiving the right, uh, and proper.
Uh, leadership guidance.
(06:10):
Um, I, I think everyone has, uh, blamedthe previous generation thinking that
they were just the best generation ever.
Uh, and then com complainingabout the current generation.
And, and I think thisis the wrong outlook.
I think, uh, every generation havesomething different to offer and
we need to embrace his generationfor what they bring on the table.
(06:31):
Um, but I think there is a commonalitywhen it comes to leadership culture
and I think that's kind of, um.
Me trying to do my part with the wisdomand knowledge that I've received over 25
years of hospitality, bringing it on thetable, something that served me right.
And I'm trying through my book, um,to really provide a blueprint, but not
(06:52):
necessarily a recipe that fits all.
Simon (06:55):
Okay.
Okay.
Uh, I love that I, uh,call it a framework, right?
Yeah.
A framework, a blueprint, framework is a
franck (07:02):
great word for that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Simon (07:04):
Um.
I mean, let's distill it down.
So like what, what is, what isthe core message that you want to
get, that you want to get out toChefs and operators and anybody,
really, anybody reading that book?
Like what do you wantthem to walk away with?
franck (07:21):
I, I, I think I want them to walk away with a better
understanding of who they are.
It, it, it really comes down to thatthe, the, the book is re relentless.
Growth is really about your mindset.
It's about you againstyou versus you with you.
Uh, it, it's all about you, andthis is a lot of work you have to
do within yourself, but finding outthat some part of the process that
(07:45):
you will inevitably going through.
It's actually part of the process.
Don't shy away from it.
Don't try to dismiss it.
Don't try to ignore it.
It is what you meant and designed to gothrough and understanding kind of, uh.
What toolbox and what skills youneed to learn in order to go through.
Um, so, so I really want people to getout of this book, understanding themself
(08:09):
a little bit more understanding that theymight be in the wrong, um, environment,
they might be in the wrong, uh, path.
And, um, and someone, you know that yousee a lot of people these days, there are.
They're doing their career,their nine to five job that they
don't necessarily like as much.
And then, then they're extremelypassionate about something that
(08:30):
they're doing outside of work, andI'm kind of trying to show them
and say, why don't you flip it?
Why don't you just follow yourpassion, make money out of this?
And I know there's a lot ofrisk taking when you want to
make money out of your passion.
Can my passion even make money outof, I mean, we're living in 2025 and
anyone can make money out of anything.
(08:50):
I mean, we, we get Facebookmarketplace and people can leave
out of Facebook marketplace.
So since, just to show you.
It's just to show you how much, if youreally kind of put some thought into it,
then you might actually have somethingthat you would be passionate, that makes
you wake up in the morning and feel likeyou're not working a day of your life.
It's really, really that, that I'mtrying to preach out of this book.
(09:12):
It, it's about your mindset and what youdecide to do out of it, uh, and, and, and
creating the framework in your head toknow that, uh, obstacles, uh, adversities.
Uh, failures, um, andresilience, all those things are
actually part of the process.
Uh, it, it, it is, itis meant to be that way.
Too many people shy away fromcomplication difficulties, adversity,
(09:35):
setbacks, um, that makes them kindof just not wanted to take any risk.
Uh, and, and sometime I think the riskis very worth it in order for you to
get on the other side of that fence.
Um, so that, that'swhat I strongly believe.
I,
Simon (09:50):
that's awesome.
You hit two things for me that, thatreally, like, I don't know that those
little hairs in the back of your neck,you know, mine are standing up right now,
but it's how, how cliche is this, right?
Or people talk about it's, it'sthe journey, not the destination.
And I think what I, what I reallygot from what you just said
(10:12):
was not only is it the journey.
It is the journey, but it's, it'slike embracing all the little
things that are in there, right?
Um, I, when I start to think aboutwork and I start to think about
loving your work, I remember ThomasKeller 20 something years ago.
He said, you have to fall in lovewith the act of peeling a carrot.
(10:34):
Right.
And for me, I think that's, I care,I love carrots to begin with, but you
know, it, I, I've always tried to takethat to whatever I do and whatever
I'm doing, and when I'm teaching,when I'm working with, with my clients
and, and the chefs that I'm ableto, to be a, a part of their world.
(10:55):
I'm like, it doesn't have to be a carrot.
It has to be falling in love with thesimple acts that you do every day.
Because if you Absolutely, if you havethe, if you have that, that everyday thing
and, and you're really good at it, mm-hmm.
It builds.
Right.
And then the second thing thatreally, like I said, just kind of
makes the hairs on the back of myhead stand up is the idea of like.
(11:20):
Getting excited about what you love.
Right.
I was talking to a friend recentlyand she is a fellow consultant.
Um, and we were talking about thework that she does and it, she's
also in hospitality, so we're veryclose as far as the, the work we do.
She says, you know, I was doinga manager in training manual.
(11:41):
Last night and she says, I couldn't stop.
I, it was eight o'clock,nine o'clock, 10 o'clock.
And I said, do you do those a lot?
And she says, no, but man, I, Ijust, I couldn't, I was so energized
in creating that 'cause I knewthat it was gonna affect people.
And I said, I just wantto throw this idea out.
(12:02):
And she says, what do you got?
I said, well do more of that.
Like if you, if thereis a piece of your work.
That, that, that brings thepassion, that, that creates that
visceral feeling in your life.
Do more of that.
Find a way, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like if you're meant to do managerand training manuals or training
(12:23):
manuals, like if that's your thing,there is plenty of niche in the world
to, to be able to, to hone that.
So I just wanted to share that because No,I, it's one of those things, it just grabs
me when people go, oh, I love doing this.
I'm like, fuck.
How do you do more of that?
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
(12:45):
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
notes to connect with me directly.
franck (13:01):
That because it is, it is, it is.
Um, I, I guess there is a part of, um.
There's a part of luck when you arelucky to know what you meant to be doing.
And some people keep looking and somepeople can go, they're gonna stay at
school as long as possible 'cause theystill don't know how to figure out
what they're gonna do for their career.
(13:22):
There's a lot of peopleout there like this.
And, and, and I think there is apart of, uh, like I say, we, we
are living in a world now that youcan pretty much monetize anything.
Uh, and, and you, you reallyneed to not being afraid.
To be taking the unpopular route, you notto be afraid to just maybe with oftentimes
(13:45):
being influenced by our surrounding andour closed ones that apparently knows
better what you, what's best for you.
And sometime you just have to kind of, uh,silence a little bit of the noise, taking
in consideration, taking a feedback.
But at the same time, your opiniondoesn't need to be completely silenced.
(14:06):
Your opinion and your choices needs tohave as much value as everybody else.
And then you just still followingyour passion based on that.
And if you don't know what you'repassionate about, then try things.
Try sports, try hobbies untilyou find someone, try baking.
Uh, do something thatgives you some, some joy.
(14:27):
And then based on that,just trying to find a way.
I have a friend that, um, that camerecently and, um, she, she's been
working with me for quite some timeand, uh, she, um, she worked in
hospitality, but she never, she wentinto FNB, then she went to the spot
and she went to front desk and she wentconcierge, and then she never really.
Found that spark or that aha momentwhen she felt, this is for me.
(14:49):
She does this.
It's the novelty that kept her doingthis for probably about a few months,
but then the novelty kind of phasedout and suddenly she see all the
things that she doesn't like about it.
And so the, the, the most recentconversation I had with her was,
what is it that gives you joy?
And she say, I like writing.
And I said, okay.
(15:10):
And, and I know she wrote a book.
She's into fantasy and, and, and,uh, and, uh, like fictional book.
And so I said, well, whydon't you do more of this?
And she said, and she said, go.
In the world of, of, um, of books, I sayyou have, you have websites such as ridi
when you can go and start editing books.
So you can start.
Being an editor and start gettinginto that world of edit editing.
(15:32):
So maybe it will spark something, butat least you're in the world of writing.
Uh, and, and then you just kind of mm-hmm.
Try to follow this curiosity, to try tofind avenues that are out of norm in order
for you to find something that, I don'tknow, help you wake up in the morning.
Simon (15:48):
Yeah.
Uh, I love it.
I mean, I, I think that, um, I. Well,I can't speak for the whole world.
Right?
I can speak for my experiences and, andwhat I've seen in here in the States, but
there's so much programming that is beingwashed away slowly and eroding around.
(16:09):
Just taking, like, for example, my fatherworked in the same job for 37 years,
and the last, I would say the last.
15. He was miserable.
Right.
Uh, a like a career academic.
He was in, at, he was at universityand he, he was a technical specialist
and he taught people how to doresearch better than probably
(16:31):
anybody else could, could hope to.
But by the end, he didn't enjoy it.
He really just wanted toretire and, and work with wood.
Right.
Um.
But I think that there's so much ofthat, and like I say, it's eroding.
It's eroding.
People are understanding thathaving multiple, multiple passions
throughout your life is an okay thing.
Having multiple careers is, is a thing.
(16:52):
But I think that finding what, youknow, being able to say, I. I just
have to find a job, you know, and forme that, that, that conversation can,
can go down to do you wanna fi, do youwanna go out and find the job for you
or do you wanna find what's available?
Right.
And I think that, that, thatobviously just dovetails out
(17:13):
into a million little things.
Right.
But I think absolutely.
I think getting to, getting theopportunity to, or making, how
about this, making the opportunityto find what really gets you outta
bed in the morning is, mm-hmm.
There's just nothing better.
I, um, I've talked to chefs and cooksfor, for years and years about like,
(17:38):
be clear about what it is you want.
To do, not just a day, but likewhere do you want that career to go?
You know, uh, I was reading somethingon LinkedIn about four days ago
where this chef, who's probablyin his sixties, almost seventies,
is still working and he is like.
If I have any advice, it's when you're35 and 40, think about 20 years from
(18:00):
now, think about what you wanna bedoing because if you're not, you're
gonna, you might end up doing somethingthat you don't want to be doing.
And so, of course,
franck (18:08):
I I, I used to ask that question a lot to, uh, some of my cooks or even
my young sous chef that just enteredthe world of management and leadership.
And, um, and, and some of thefirst one-on-one was, uh, was, uh.
I know you've years away from it, butwhat kind of executive chef do you want
to be like and, and you gotta thinknow because whatever you're gonna be
(18:30):
practicing now for the next 5, 6, 7, 8years will become in 5, 6, 7, 8 years.
So you've gotta be able to continueto figure it out, what kind of
executive chef you wanna be andstart showing up that way tomorrow.
Your journey of leadership starting.
You want to be that kind of exec chefswho start showing up that way and
(18:52):
then, and then just practice and createthose habits, um, of, of how you want
to be perceived, how you want to beknown, uh, what kind of leader you want
to be, that people wants to follow.
Just, just make those connection and,and realize that, uh, having that roadmap
to get you to where you be in no time,you'll realize that you're exactly
the exec chef you thought of becomingbecause you actually believed that eight
(19:14):
years in the past eight years daily asyou were choosing to make that path.
Um, so you, you've got that to your point,you've gotta create your opportunities.
You've gotta make youropportunities sometimes.
Um, so yeah, it, it, they say luck is whenthe preparation meets opportunity, right.
Simon (19:30):
Mm-hmm.
So you, you brought up one of myfavorite topics, and that is sous chefs.
So what do you, in your opinion,like what are the things that chefs
get wrong when they're trainingthat next generation of leader?
Like what, what are thechefs missing out there?
franck (19:51):
Um, I would think that, um, I, I, I would think that chef usually miss the.
Um, mentoring, coaching Cothe, almost teaching the skills
of becoming a good leader.
It is, it is just not necessarily,I mean, we we're gonna teach you
(20:11):
how to cook and usually if you'rebecoming a sous chef, it means you've
already proven, you know how to cook.
Um, right in, in, in our kitchen.
But now it's like, letme show you how to lead.
Let me show you during chaos how to bringback the entire team without feeling.
You need to jump over thepass and take it over.
Like how do you actually.
Make an entire team following your lead.
(20:34):
That's, that's probably what mostchefs are sometimes forgetting.
And um, and, and, and I think.
Sometimes some of the chefs don'teven know how to do that themself.
Uh mm-hmm.
And, and it, it, it's very importantthat the skills you're learning, the, the
empathy, the understanding, the feedback.
How do you provide feedback,how do you receive feedback?
(20:55):
And especially in the world of thekitchen when it's very cutthroat in our
approach to things, we're very much into.
This is wrong, this isbroken, this is not right.
Um, we very much like this and fix it.
And then, okay, well how do I fix it?
Figure it out.
So, so there's a lot of thosethings and it's like, well, let
me show you how to figure it out.
Let me show you how to fix this.
(21:16):
I'm gonna show you once you'regonna do it again, I'm gonna check
that you done, you understood.
And then we can, we can get it from there.
And, and having the patience to reallyshow the right way of leading will pay.
You will, you will have a, a tenurein this kitchen that you will be
able to not necessarily be needed.
You trying, you trying almost to createan environment when you become obsolete.
(21:41):
If the chef become obsolete,it means you created the right
kitchen and the right team.
I was just talking about it today.
Uh, here, uh, it is just, you'vegotta make yourself irrelevant.
You've gotta create a team thatmakes yourself irrelevant and
it's scary because if you'reirrelevant, then why do I need you?
You always gonna be needed because now youtransform your relevancy into a vision.
(22:06):
You transform your relevancy into,this is where we are going, this
is, uh, this is what I want to do.
But at the same time, you are gettingthe following from this team that
feels like now they can operatewithout, without minimum guidance.
Simon (22:20):
Yeah.
Um, it, it's funny, I, I, I talkabout kitchens that run that.
Where the chef becomes a value add.
Right.
And, and so you, you actually just mademe scribble something down because I was
like, oh, I need to, I need to, and whatI wrote down was value add equals vision.
(22:42):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And I think that so often when I'm tryingto teach a chef who says, oh, I'm, but
I'm the best butcher I need to butcher.
I'm like, no man.
You need to be the best teacherso that you can teach them
to, to do the butchering.
Almost as well as you, you know, Ithink that also brings up something
(23:02):
that, that one of my mentors, heused to, he had this way of conveying
ideas and he was one of the firstpeople, first chefs that ever like
started to teach me the why of things.
Mm-hmm.
You know, he says, but Simon, Iwant you to go into the kitchen and
when you're teaching that new dish.
(23:23):
Remote, teach them all the waysthat it can, pardon the, pardon
my language, but teach 'em allthe ways they can get fucked up.
Teach 'em how, how, how it goessideways or how it doesn't come out
looking or feeling or tasting theway you want it to teach 'em how,
how it screws up and, and the whyand this is why we do these things.
So, no, I, I think.
(23:45):
Yeah.
Value add equals vision.
I think that's gonna be a, a, a topicfor me for a couple days here at least.
franck (23:51):
For sure.
No, it, it, it, it is exactly right.
It is, it, it is understandingwhy you're doing what they do.
It, it's, it just needs to transform.
I think it's a missingingredients in today's leadership.
Leadership lessons.
It, it is just, we are just soconditioned to just say, you do this.
Yes, chef, move on.
(24:12):
And, and, and it's just likepeople now are asking, why the
hell am I peeling carrots for?
I have no idea.
I'm just peeling carrots.
And it, and, and you're gonnapeel carrots into a motion.
There's nothing sexy and nothingexciting about peeling a carrot.
But if you explain them, and I'm notsaying that, if I'm explaining you
that you're gonna peel the carrot andyou're gonna put in the best stock,
that is a, I'm not talking about it.
(24:34):
I'm just talking about the the why as.
Aspect of this.
Mm-hmm.
The concept of why I need you to peelthese carrots this certain way, and then
you go into these onions and we need tomake sure we're putting them on the grill
in order to char them, because the charis gonna bring you a taste into your stock
that you can only get through doing this.
And then while you're doing yourstock, you say, Hey, come here.
(24:54):
Come here a second.
Come taste while we are doing the stock.
On the first step.
On the second step, and when it's beenboiling and simmering for four hours
now you taste the finer product andyou understood every aspect of it.
Now you can be sure by takingthis, this time and energy.
To show someone and explain the why.
The next time you say, Hey, Ineed you to do the stock today.
(25:17):
'cause we are running out of it, you knowthat now they're gonna take this onion
and they're gonna be very particular aboutthe way they're gonna chart the onions.
They're gonna be very particularabout the way they peel the carrots
because they understand why they'redoing it 'cause they've tasted the
difference And so, so, so you gotta.
It's almost like you gotta foster andculture, cultivate the passion that
(25:40):
they don't even know they have yet.
You are the one who is in charge of that.
You have a responsibility and almosta, a moral duty to teach them how
to be passionate about the craft.
Simon (25:50):
Right?
Yeah.
And I, I think to, to, to kinda layeron I the, that fostering that, that
culture fostering that passion, right.
Um.
I look every day for how I can help.
The leaders that I'm working with tofoster the passion for the leadership.
(26:11):
Right.
It, it doubles back on itself becauselike, it, it's that idea that it's a, that
leadership is a false force multiplier.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Like when I have people who understandhow we're going, if I teach you.
And I teach you how I want you to teachthe next person, now we start to, we
(26:32):
start to move in the same direction.
Absolutely.
And really, again, multiply the force.
But it's so funny to me, like whatyou just described about peeling
carrots and making the stock is somuch of what gets missed for me in
a lot of kitchens is they don't.
They don't explain somethingfrom, from a very guttural,
(26:55):
emotional space of how to do it.
Right.
Right.
So that when we're going, when whenwe then move on to teaching how to
be a leader, it's even harder becausethey don't have that guttural,
instinctual passion of how to teach.
Mm-hmm.
franck (27:13):
Yeah, no, I, I, it takes us certain skills to be able to teach mentor
and coach, and not everyone has it.
And, uh, I, I, I invite everyone thatit's not because you are already your
own chef, um, that, uh, you necessarilyhave all the recipes to success that
the, the, you've gotta be able sometime to look at yourself and making
a self assessment and looking, it'slike, okay, I still have some stuff
(27:36):
to learn from that side of things.
Therefore, I'm gonna start doingthis because I, I can tell you if,
if you have a retention issue, ithas nothing to do with the quality
of people or the environment.
It has to do with leadership.
Nine times out of 10, it hasto do with the leadership.
That's why there is a retention issue.
Simon (27:55):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thank you.
You just, you just made my heart swell.
Uh, because I feel like I say this, uh.
All the time, and sometimes people lookat me and go, no, no, you're wrong.
It's the kids.
I'm like, no, man.
Like it's just how youare addressing them.
(28:18):
It's how you're engaging them.
It's how they're being made to feelon a daily basis because I promise
you, there are plenty of, thereare plenty of places of employment.
It doesn't even have to be a kitchen,but there are plenty, plenty of
places where young people of.
Of multiple generations are coexistingand thriving, and there are multiple
(28:41):
kitchens, thousands of kitchens outthere, whether they be in hotels or
little tiny mom and pops or a winecountry resort where there are great
cultures that are passionate and they areengaged and very few people leave, right?
Mm-hmm.
And it's how they're being led.
So once again, thank you.
(29:03):
I love hearing somebody else who just.
Echos and it's very validating to me.
I'm like, see, I'm not the only one
franck (29:11):
there, there, there's plenty out there.
We just need to, uh, we, we just need it.
It's hard in being inthis position 'cause.
The environment and the worldwe are living in, make us
second guessing that thought.
And, and it makes us almost like lookingat it as like, am I thinking right?
Because now it's like out of 10 chefs,I'm the only one thinking that way.
(29:32):
And you know, the, the peerpressure of feeling like.
And, and, and now I got to a pointafter writing my book and after doing
podcast and talking to similar chef, Irealize that I'm not by myself into this.
And, but, but for so long, the corporationthat I work for and some of the, some
of the big name brand that I work for,I, I, I'm not gonna cast the blame on
(29:54):
them, but I felt like I was an anomaly.
I feel like I was thinking too differentand, and, and, and, and feeling
outcast or it's like, I, I don't know.
It, it is just, um, it, it's refreshingto hear people out there that are
trying to make some noise in orderto preach something they believe in.
Um, and, and, and I, I, I can only.
(30:16):
Relate to your way of thinking, andI, I appreciate for you to have me
on this episode because if you thinkthat way, we just need more of that.
We just need more of that, right?
Because we, we, I, I, I believewholeheartedly that, uh, I
am not an anomaly anymore.
I am not outcasted.
You're not gonna, you'renot gonna silence me.
And now I'm gonna say what I have to say.
Knowing that it does resonate with alot more people than I thought it would.
Simon (30:40):
Yeah.
Awesome.
I, I was telling somebody not too long agothe words that, that I know when I'm doing
something, right, when I hear these words,nobody's ever said that to me before.
That's when I know I'm startingto like chip away at the, at the
conventions that are, um, andmoving towards, um, uh, moving,
(31:06):
moving towards something that could.
Be, definitely be a, uh, a momentof reckoning for the restaurant
and hospitality industry.
I think that when we start to breakdown some of the older, we'll just call
'em, um, tyrannical processes, right?
Mm-hmm.
When you start to mm-hmm.
Break down that image of a chef andthat image of the industry and you
(31:28):
start to re remake it, things get.
It gets scary.
'cause I feel like we, we start to takeaway so many of the, the, the sides
of the building and is it gonna shake?
Yes, it's gonna shake.
And is it gonna be weird?
Yes, it's gonna be weird, but I thinkon the other side of that as uh,
an industry that where people canmake, make great food, create great
(31:50):
experiences, but also have a lifethat that doesn't hurt, you know?
franck (31:55):
Absolutely.
I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Simon (31:59):
Um.
So you wrote the book,you're out there consulting.
Um, you know, what, what do you see as,as the, like, what's, what's on the,
kind of the next thing on the ladder?
What, what do you like, what are you,what are you out there thinking about?
franck (32:19):
I, I, I, I, I mean, I, um.
Kind of thing.
I'm thinking about my brain.
I, I daydream daily.
Um, excellent.
I, I, I think, um, this book hasbeen, by the time it comes out about
12 days, it's gonna be nearly twoyears I've been starting this process.
It is not a, it is not a, a fast process.
(32:39):
It's something that Icannot wait to be out there.
Being read, I cannot wait for peopleto tell me what they thought of it.
I cannot wait for people, evenif it's one person that tells
me, Frank, he resonated with me.
I'm, I'm appreciative of youtaking the time to write it.
So, so I, I just need this bookto get into the right hands.
Anyone?
I wish I had this book when I was younger.
(33:03):
Knowing that that was thework that needed to be done.
Uh, and, and I could have probably fasttrack some of my thought process in some
aspect of it, or when I, I was, uh, anarrogant chef or when I was, uh, just
the one that did not have the skills.
I, I, I wish I had that so.
I, I, I think the goal of thisbook is really to get into the
(33:23):
right hand and establishing me,hopefully, I guess that's my wish.
It's establishing me as an authorityon the field of hospitality, um, with,
with a philosophy that does resonatewith people and for organization that
feels they have a culture problem, thenmaybe I could be the person that come and
help them out or partner on something.
(33:45):
Um, so I, I, I, I aspire to be.
Doing speaking engagement.
I aspire to be on a TED Talk.
Uh, I inspire to be just, just kind ofspreading the word of, uh, relentless
growth to whoever wants to hearit and whoever wants to apply it.
Um, and, um.
The very, very future.
There's gonna be a second book,and there was always a second book.
(34:07):
And, and after the first one whenyou worked about, uh, it, you worked
about you on you versus you mm-hmm.
With you.
Um, I, I like to think the second bookis now, is now that you have that mind.
Set one, you have that gross mindset andyou enter a workplace, you're an exec
chef, and you have a team of 60 Arian,and then nobody has that gross mindset.
(34:30):
And now the second book will be alot about what is it that you need
to do in order to influence an entireworkplace to think the way you think
and to behave the way you behave.
And, and I think it does.
Require, uh, a, a blueprint,it does require a framework.
It does require habits, itdoes require conversation.
It does require feedbacks, andone-on-ones, a developmental
(34:52):
approach to things.
So that, that, that in the near future, itwill be a second book, but first, uh, one
at the time, we wanna see how this one isbeing received, uh, how this one helped
the co, the, the hospitality and, uh,and hopefully the student of hospitality
that are currently at school, uh, at CIA.
Or cross hospitality program in thecountry, um, that will put their hands on
(35:14):
it and realize, and Islam, man, I'm, I'm,I'm, I'm, this has been helpful to me.
Um, therefore I want to continuethat path, um, and that, that's
only what I wish right now.
So, um, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm, uh,looking for more, I'm just looking to,
to grow more into my role, grow moreinto what I represent in the world of
hospitality and, and hopefully, uh,making a dent into this, uh, one of the
(35:37):
most demanding industry in the world.
Simon (35:41):
Relentless growth, baby.
I'm in.
Sign me up.
I cannot wait to to be.
Uh.
To be on the sidelines of watchingwhat is happening with you and
what you bring coming forward.
I appreciate that, chef Frank, thank youso much for coming and joining me today.
Playing in my little sandboxthat is culinary mechanic,
(36:02):
uh, really means a lot to me.
Um, I, in the show notes, I'm gonnamake sure that everybody can find
you, find the links to your book.
I will get all of those thingsdown and compiled in there.
Um.
And to all you out there,thank you for listening.
It really means a lot to me.
Um, the number of listeners seemsto just grow a little bit every
(36:23):
week, and I truly appreciate that.
So to all you out there, I'llcatch you on the flip side,
chef, I'll see you next time.
franck (36:30):
Thank you, chef Simon.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Simon (00:31):
Joining me today is Chef Frank.
Chef, welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
How are you?
franck (00:37):
I'm good.
How are you?
Thanks for having me, chef Simon.
Appreciate that.
Excited for this episode.
Simon (00:43):
Uh, I. As I was saying, as we were getting warmed up here,
I just love it when I meet otherchefs who are doing different stuff.
I hate to use such a technicalterm, but it is right.
It's like we're out there inthe world helping other people.
Um, you know, uh, we're gonna get totalk about this shortly, but you got
(01:03):
a book coming out today and that thatall by itself is super, super special.
So, um.
As has become norm on culinary mechanic.
I'm just gonna say, let's press on the gasand ask how'd you get into this industry?
Like how did it all begin?
franck (01:21):
Uh, um, I, I mean, it, it started very, very young.
Um, I, um, grew up inFrance and both my parents.
Were amazing cooks, differentway, but amazing cooks.
And, uh, my curiosity I think justkind of got me, um, to be, um,
just following somewhat of, uh, uh,breadcrumbs that got me into the kitchen.
(01:44):
And I started very young.
I started, it was, uh, just, uh, justshy of 15 years old and, and up in,
uh, apprentice and, uh, apprenticeship.
And then I, um, I just kind of followedthis, uh, this thing that got me into.
Learning skills, soft skills,hard skills, culinary skills.
And then, uh, that just, you know,when you're good at something and
(02:05):
you people make you feel good,you just, there's no point going
and looking for something else.
You just keep doing it.
And, and here you are, you're lookingbackwards and it's been 10 years in
the industry and you like to thinkthat you someone and then you add
another 10 years to that, and thenyou just made a career out of it.
So it's, uh, it, it's, I, I, I think,um, yeah, I, I, I got to it really
by the, the, you know, France, um.
(02:27):
Has a lot of, uh, food andbeverage in the culture.
And, uh, it, it, it's, it,there's a lot of stories.
So it was, it was hard for me tonot be attracted by, uh, by, uh,
just becoming a chef because there'sso much to offer in this country.
Simon (02:46):
I love it.
Um, I, you hit on something thatlike, it's, it's deep culturally
and I think that that's, um.
It's what I want for the United States.
It's what I want for America.
Right.
Like that, that we have something thatis deep, that isn't just for, oh, we're
just the USA, um, I, I, I know that asbeing somebody who's been in the kitchen
(03:09):
pretty much my whole life as well.
Um, France is always the Northstar in a lot, in a lot of
the kitchens I worked and.
It's interesting to talk.
I, I've actually, one of my mentors,uh, wa was from Normandy and he,
(03:30):
he just would talk all the timeabout the things that they would do,
like just the way things were done.
So I, I truly appreciate that.
Um, you know, how, how would you say like.
You spent your career in it, now you'regetting to go out and you're doing some
consulting and you're writing a book.
(03:52):
How has that all, like, tell me howthat became a through line for you.
franck (03:57):
Um, I don't know if it was a through line, um, but
there's definitely been, um.
I think I focused a lotof my, the beginning of my
career to just be a good cook.
Then I dec then I got into themanagement and decided to be a good chef.
Um, and then, um, over time I became,I was as much, I was, uh, deep into
(04:18):
pastry and I was into culinary.
I was at, mm-hmm.
I was a pastry chef.
I was an exec chef.
And then, um, eventually Ibecame a director of food and
beverage for luxury resorts.
And, um, what got me into.
Finding out that I had a, I don'tknow, maybe would, would describe
as a philosophy, kind of the wayI approach leadership and the way
(04:41):
I approach culture and, uh, and,um, you know, I, I just was, um.
I, I, I, I don't really like to put it outthere, like kind of leading by example.
I think it's overused.
Uh, I, I, I, I just think that I wasjust, uh, enjoying what I was doing.
This.
There never been really days that Ifelt like I was working for no reason.
(05:01):
Um, so, so I really felt like I was, uh.
Compelled to do it right, becausethere was the right way of doing it.
And um, and, and so during the COVIDyears, um, when I, um, the whole
world of hospitality was on standby,um, I am someone that by nature
doesn't know how to stay on standby.
I don't know what it, what that means.
(05:22):
I'm someone that needs to keep moving.
And, um, so there was nothing betterfor me that, uh, certifying myself
to be a coach, speaker, and trainer.
And that opened my voice and thatfound me a messaging that I was
able to translate into hospitality.
And, uh, very quickly, the, the, thepeople that was working alongside me,
responding to my leadership made merealize that, uh, maybe I actually.
(05:48):
I have, uh, somewhat of a secret sauce.
Maybe I have a, a recipe thatsome people can relate to.
And I, um, I, I, I just wanted to shareit with the, the, the future leaders of
hospitality, the student of hospitality,the one that, uh, does not necessarily
their receiving the right, uh, and proper.
Uh, leadership guidance.
(06:10):
Um, I, I think everyone has, uh, blamedthe previous generation thinking that
they were just the best generation ever.
Uh, and then com complainingabout the current generation.
And, and I think thisis the wrong outlook.
I think, uh, every generation havesomething different to offer and
we need to embrace his generationfor what they bring on the table.
(06:31):
Um, but I think there is a commonalitywhen it comes to leadership culture
and I think that's kind of, um.
Me trying to do my part with the wisdomand knowledge that I've received over 25
years of hospitality, bringing it on thetable, something that served me right.
And I'm trying through my book, um,to really provide a blueprint, but not
(06:52):
necessarily a recipe that fits all.
Simon (06:55):
Okay.
Okay.
Uh, I love that I, uh,call it a framework, right?
Yeah.
A framework, a blueprint, framework is a
franck (07:02):
great word for that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Simon (07:04):
Um.
I mean, let's distill it down.
So like what, what is, what isthe core message that you want to
get, that you want to get out toChefs and operators and anybody,
really, anybody reading that book?
Like what do you wantthem to walk away with?
franck (07:21):
I, I, I think I want them to walk away with a better
understanding of who they are.
It, it, it really comes down to thatthe, the, the book is re relentless.
Growth is really about your mindset.
It's about you againstyou versus you with you.
Uh, it, it's all about you, andthis is a lot of work you have to
do within yourself, but finding outthat some part of the process that
(07:45):
you will inevitably going through.
It's actually part of the process.
Don't shy away from it.
Don't try to dismiss it.
Don't try to ignore it.
It is what you meant and designed to gothrough and understanding kind of, uh.
What toolbox and what skills youneed to learn in order to go through.
Um, so, so I really want people to getout of this book, understanding themself
(08:09):
a little bit more understanding that theymight be in the wrong, um, environment,
they might be in the wrong, uh, path.
And, um, and someone, you know that yousee a lot of people these days, there are.
They're doing their career,their nine to five job that they
don't necessarily like as much.
And then, then they're extremelypassionate about something that
(08:30):
they're doing outside of work, andI'm kind of trying to show them
and say, why don't you flip it?
Why don't you just follow yourpassion, make money out of this?
And I know there's a lot ofrisk taking when you want to
make money out of your passion.
Can my passion even make money outof, I mean, we're living in 2025 and
anyone can make money out of anything.
(08:50):
I mean, we, we get Facebookmarketplace and people can leave
out of Facebook marketplace.
So since, just to show you.
It's just to show you how much, if youreally kind of put some thought into it,
then you might actually have somethingthat you would be passionate, that makes
you wake up in the morning and feel likeyou're not working a day of your life.
It's really, really that, that I'mtrying to preach out of this book.
(09:12):
It, it's about your mindset and what youdecide to do out of it, uh, and, and, and
creating the framework in your head toknow that, uh, obstacles, uh, adversities.
Uh, failures, um, andresilience, all those things are
actually part of the process.
Uh, it, it, it is, itis meant to be that way.
Too many people shy away fromcomplication difficulties, adversity,
(09:35):
setbacks, um, that makes them kindof just not wanted to take any risk.
Uh, and, and sometime I think the riskis very worth it in order for you to
get on the other side of that fence.
Um, so that, that'swhat I strongly believe.
I,
Simon (09:50):
that's awesome.
You hit two things for me that, thatreally, like, I don't know that those
little hairs in the back of your neck,you know, mine are standing up right now,
but it's how, how cliche is this, right?
Or people talk about it's, it'sthe journey, not the destination.
And I think what I, what I reallygot from what you just said
(10:12):
was not only is it the journey.
It is the journey, but it's, it'slike embracing all the little
things that are in there, right?
Um, I, when I start to think aboutwork and I start to think about
loving your work, I remember ThomasKeller 20 something years ago.
He said, you have to fall in lovewith the act of peeling a carrot.
(10:34):
Right.
And for me, I think that's, I care,I love carrots to begin with, but you
know, it, I, I've always tried to takethat to whatever I do and whatever
I'm doing, and when I'm teaching,when I'm working with, with my clients
and, and the chefs that I'm ableto, to be a, a part of their world.
(10:55):
I'm like, it doesn't have to be a carrot.
It has to be falling in love with thesimple acts that you do every day.
Because if you Absolutely, if you havethe, if you have that, that everyday thing
and, and you're really good at it, mm-hmm.
It builds.
Right.
And then the second thing thatreally, like I said, just kind of
makes the hairs on the back of myhead stand up is the idea of like.
(11:20):
Getting excited about what you love.
Right.
I was talking to a friend recentlyand she is a fellow consultant.
Um, and we were talking about thework that she does and it, she's
also in hospitality, so we're veryclose as far as the, the work we do.
She says, you know, I was doinga manager in training manual.
(11:41):
Last night and she says, I couldn't stop.
I, it was eight o'clock,nine o'clock, 10 o'clock.
And I said, do you do those a lot?
And she says, no, but man, I, Ijust, I couldn't, I was so energized
in creating that 'cause I knewthat it was gonna affect people.
And I said, I just wantto throw this idea out.
(12:02):
And she says, what do you got?
I said, well do more of that.
Like if you, if thereis a piece of your work.
That, that, that brings thepassion, that, that creates that
visceral feeling in your life.
Do more of that.
Find a way, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like if you're meant to do managerand training manuals or training
(12:23):
manuals, like if that's your thing,there is plenty of niche in the world
to, to be able to, to hone that.
So I just wanted to share that because No,I, it's one of those things, it just grabs
me when people go, oh, I love doing this.
I'm like, fuck.
How do you do more of that?
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
(12:45):
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
notes to connect with me directly.
franck (13:01):
That because it is, it is, it is.
Um, I, I guess there is a part of, um.
There's a part of luck when you arelucky to know what you meant to be doing.
And some people keep looking and somepeople can go, they're gonna stay at
school as long as possible 'cause theystill don't know how to figure out
what they're gonna do for their career.
(13:22):
There's a lot of peopleout there like this.
And, and, and I think there is apart of, uh, like I say, we, we
are living in a world now that youcan pretty much monetize anything.
Uh, and, and you, you reallyneed to not being afraid.
To be taking the unpopular route, you notto be afraid to just maybe with oftentimes
(13:45):
being influenced by our surrounding andour closed ones that apparently knows
better what you, what's best for you.
And sometime you just have to kind of, uh,silence a little bit of the noise, taking
in consideration, taking a feedback.
But at the same time, your opiniondoesn't need to be completely silenced.
(14:06):
Your opinion and your choices needs tohave as much value as everybody else.
And then you just still followingyour passion based on that.
And if you don't know what you'repassionate about, then try things.
Try sports, try hobbies untilyou find someone, try baking.
Uh, do something thatgives you some, some joy.
(14:27):
And then based on that,just trying to find a way.
I have a friend that, um, that camerecently and, um, she, she's been
working with me for quite some timeand, uh, she, um, she worked in
hospitality, but she never, she wentinto FNB, then she went to the spot
and she went to front desk and she wentconcierge, and then she never really.
Found that spark or that aha momentwhen she felt, this is for me.
(14:49):
She does this.
It's the novelty that kept her doingthis for probably about a few months,
but then the novelty kind of phasedout and suddenly she see all the
things that she doesn't like about it.
And so the, the, the most recentconversation I had with her was,
what is it that gives you joy?
And she say, I like writing.
And I said, okay.
(15:10):
And, and I know she wrote a book.
She's into fantasy and, and, and,uh, and, uh, like fictional book.
And so I said, well, whydon't you do more of this?
And she said, and she said, go.
In the world of, of, um, of books, I sayyou have, you have websites such as ridi
when you can go and start editing books.
So you can start.
Being an editor and start gettinginto that world of edit editing.
(15:32):
So maybe it will spark something, butat least you're in the world of writing.
Uh, and, and then you just kind of mm-hmm.
Try to follow this curiosity, to try tofind avenues that are out of norm in order
for you to find something that, I don'tknow, help you wake up in the morning.
Simon (15:48):
Yeah.
Uh, I love it.
I mean, I, I think that, um, I. Well,I can't speak for the whole world.
Right?
I can speak for my experiences and, andwhat I've seen in here in the States, but
there's so much programming that is beingwashed away slowly and eroding around.
(16:09):
Just taking, like, for example, my fatherworked in the same job for 37 years,
and the last, I would say the last.
15. He was miserable.
Right.
Uh, a like a career academic.
He was in, at, he was at universityand he, he was a technical specialist
and he taught people how to doresearch better than probably
(16:31):
anybody else could, could hope to.
But by the end, he didn't enjoy it.
He really just wanted toretire and, and work with wood.
Right.
Um.
But I think that there's so much ofthat, and like I say, it's eroding.
It's eroding.
People are understanding thathaving multiple, multiple passions
throughout your life is an okay thing.
Having multiple careers is, is a thing.
(16:52):
But I think that finding what, youknow, being able to say, I. I just
have to find a job, you know, and forme that, that, that conversation can,
can go down to do you wanna fi, do youwanna go out and find the job for you
or do you wanna find what's available?
Right.
And I think that, that, thatobviously just dovetails out
(17:13):
into a million little things.
Right.
But I think absolutely.
I think getting to, getting theopportunity to, or making, how
about this, making the opportunityto find what really gets you outta
bed in the morning is, mm-hmm.
There's just nothing better.
I, um, I've talked to chefs and cooksfor, for years and years about like,
(17:38):
be clear about what it is you want.
To do, not just a day, but likewhere do you want that career to go?
You know, uh, I was reading somethingon LinkedIn about four days ago
where this chef, who's probablyin his sixties, almost seventies,
is still working and he is like.
If I have any advice, it's when you're35 and 40, think about 20 years from
(18:00):
now, think about what you wanna bedoing because if you're not, you're
gonna, you might end up doing somethingthat you don't want to be doing.
And so, of course,
franck (18:08):
I I, I used to ask that question a lot to, uh, some of my cooks or even
my young sous chef that just enteredthe world of management and leadership.
And, um, and, and some of thefirst one-on-one was, uh, was, uh.
I know you've years away from it, butwhat kind of executive chef do you want
to be like and, and you gotta thinknow because whatever you're gonna be
(18:30):
practicing now for the next 5, 6, 7, 8years will become in 5, 6, 7, 8 years.
So you've gotta be able to continueto figure it out, what kind of
executive chef you wanna be andstart showing up that way tomorrow.
Your journey of leadership starting.
You want to be that kind of exec chefswho start showing up that way and
(18:52):
then, and then just practice and createthose habits, um, of, of how you want
to be perceived, how you want to beknown, uh, what kind of leader you want
to be, that people wants to follow.
Just, just make those connection and,and realize that, uh, having that roadmap
to get you to where you be in no time,you'll realize that you're exactly
the exec chef you thought of becomingbecause you actually believed that eight
(19:14):
years in the past eight years daily asyou were choosing to make that path.
Um, so you, you've got that to your point,you've gotta create your opportunities.
You've gotta make youropportunities sometimes.
Um, so yeah, it, it, they say luck is whenthe preparation meets opportunity, right.
Simon (19:30):
Mm-hmm.
So you, you brought up one of myfavorite topics, and that is sous chefs.
So what do you, in your opinion,like what are the things that chefs
get wrong when they're trainingthat next generation of leader?
Like what, what are thechefs missing out there?
franck (19:51):
Um, I would think that, um, I, I, I would think that chef usually miss the.
Um, mentoring, coaching Cothe, almost teaching the skills
of becoming a good leader.
It is, it is just not necessarily,I mean, we we're gonna teach you
(20:11):
how to cook and usually if you'rebecoming a sous chef, it means you've
already proven, you know how to cook.
Um, right in, in, in our kitchen.
But now it's like, letme show you how to lead.
Let me show you during chaos how to bringback the entire team without feeling.
You need to jump over thepass and take it over.
Like how do you actually.
Make an entire team following your lead.
(20:34):
That's, that's probably what mostchefs are sometimes forgetting.
And um, and, and, and I think.
Sometimes some of the chefs don'teven know how to do that themself.
Uh mm-hmm.
And, and it, it, it's very importantthat the skills you're learning, the, the
empathy, the understanding, the feedback.
How do you provide feedback,how do you receive feedback?
(20:55):
And especially in the world of thekitchen when it's very cutthroat in our
approach to things, we're very much into.
This is wrong, this isbroken, this is not right.
Um, we very much like this and fix it.
And then, okay, well how do I fix it?
Figure it out.
So, so there's a lot of thosethings and it's like, well, let
me show you how to figure it out.
Let me show you how to fix this.
(21:16):
I'm gonna show you once you'regonna do it again, I'm gonna check
that you done, you understood.
And then we can, we can get it from there.
And, and having the patience to reallyshow the right way of leading will pay.
You will, you will have a, a tenurein this kitchen that you will be
able to not necessarily be needed.
You trying, you trying almost to createan environment when you become obsolete.
(21:41):
If the chef become obsolete,it means you created the right
kitchen and the right team.
I was just talking about it today.
Uh, here, uh, it is just, you'vegotta make yourself irrelevant.
You've gotta create a team thatmakes yourself irrelevant and
it's scary because if you'reirrelevant, then why do I need you?
You always gonna be needed because now youtransform your relevancy into a vision.
(22:06):
You transform your relevancy into,this is where we are going, this
is, uh, this is what I want to do.
But at the same time, you are gettingthe following from this team that
feels like now they can operatewithout, without minimum guidance.
Simon (22:20):
Yeah.
Um, it, it's funny, I, I, I talkabout kitchens that run that.
Where the chef becomes a value add.
Right.
And, and so you, you actually just mademe scribble something down because I was
like, oh, I need to, I need to, and whatI wrote down was value add equals vision.
(22:42):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And I think that so often when I'm tryingto teach a chef who says, oh, I'm, but
I'm the best butcher I need to butcher.
I'm like, no man.
You need to be the best teacherso that you can teach them
to, to do the butchering.
Almost as well as you, you know, Ithink that also brings up something
(23:02):
that, that one of my mentors, heused to, he had this way of conveying
ideas and he was one of the firstpeople, first chefs that ever like
started to teach me the why of things.
Mm-hmm.
You know, he says, but Simon, Iwant you to go into the kitchen and
when you're teaching that new dish.
(23:23):
Remote, teach them all the waysthat it can, pardon the, pardon
my language, but teach 'em allthe ways they can get fucked up.
Teach 'em how, how, how it goessideways or how it doesn't come out
looking or feeling or tasting theway you want it to teach 'em how,
how it screws up and, and the whyand this is why we do these things.
So, no, I, I think.
(23:45):
Yeah.
Value add equals vision.
I think that's gonna be a, a, a topicfor me for a couple days here at least.
franck (23:51):
For sure.
No, it, it, it, it is exactly right.
It is, it, it is understandingwhy you're doing what they do.
It, it's, it just needs to transform.
I think it's a missingingredients in today's leadership.
Leadership lessons.
It, it is just, we are just soconditioned to just say, you do this.
Yes, chef, move on.
(24:12):
And, and, and it's just likepeople now are asking, why the
hell am I peeling carrots for?
I have no idea.
I'm just peeling carrots.
And it, and, and you're gonnapeel carrots into a motion.
There's nothing sexy and nothingexciting about peeling a carrot.
But if you explain them, and I'm notsaying that, if I'm explaining you
that you're gonna peel the carrot andyou're gonna put in the best stock,
that is a, I'm not talking about it.
(24:34):
I'm just talking about the the why as.
Aspect of this.
Mm-hmm.
The concept of why I need you to peelthese carrots this certain way, and then
you go into these onions and we need tomake sure we're putting them on the grill
in order to char them, because the charis gonna bring you a taste into your stock
that you can only get through doing this.
And then while you're doing yourstock, you say, Hey, come here.
(24:54):
Come here a second.
Come taste while we are doing the stock.
On the first step.
On the second step, and when it's beenboiling and simmering for four hours
now you taste the finer product andyou understood every aspect of it.
Now you can be sure by takingthis, this time and energy.
To show someone and explain the why.
The next time you say, Hey, Ineed you to do the stock today.
(25:17):
'cause we are running out of it, you knowthat now they're gonna take this onion
and they're gonna be very particular aboutthe way they're gonna chart the onions.
They're gonna be very particularabout the way they peel the carrots
because they understand why they'redoing it 'cause they've tasted the
difference And so, so, so you gotta.
It's almost like you gotta foster andculture, cultivate the passion that
(25:40):
they don't even know they have yet.
You are the one who is in charge of that.
You have a responsibility and almosta, a moral duty to teach them how
to be passionate about the craft.
Simon (25:50):
Right?
Yeah.
And I, I think to, to, to kinda layeron I the, that fostering that, that
culture fostering that passion, right.
Um.
I look every day for how I can help.
The leaders that I'm working with tofoster the passion for the leadership.
(26:11):
Right.
It, it doubles back on itself becauselike, it, it's that idea that it's a, that
leadership is a false force multiplier.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Like when I have people who understandhow we're going, if I teach you.
And I teach you how I want you to teachthe next person, now we start to, we
(26:32):
start to move in the same direction.
Absolutely.
And really, again, multiply the force.
But it's so funny to me, like whatyou just described about peeling
carrots and making the stock is somuch of what gets missed for me in
a lot of kitchens is they don't.
They don't explain somethingfrom, from a very guttural,
(26:55):
emotional space of how to do it.
Right.
Right.
So that when we're going, when whenwe then move on to teaching how to
be a leader, it's even harder becausethey don't have that guttural,
instinctual passion of how to teach.
Mm-hmm.
franck (27:13):
Yeah, no, I, I, it takes us certain skills to be able to teach mentor
and coach, and not everyone has it.
And, uh, I, I, I invite everyone thatit's not because you are already your
own chef, um, that, uh, you necessarilyhave all the recipes to success that
the, the, you've gotta be able sometime to look at yourself and making
a self assessment and looking, it'slike, okay, I still have some stuff
(27:36):
to learn from that side of things.
Therefore, I'm gonna start doingthis because I, I can tell you if,
if you have a retention issue, ithas nothing to do with the quality
of people or the environment.
It has to do with leadership.
Nine times out of 10, it hasto do with the leadership.
That's why there is a retention issue.
Simon (27:55):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thank you.
You just, you just made my heart swell.
Uh, because I feel like I say this, uh.
All the time, and sometimes people lookat me and go, no, no, you're wrong.
It's the kids.
I'm like, no, man.
Like it's just how youare addressing them.
(28:18):
It's how you're engaging them.
It's how they're being made to feelon a daily basis because I promise
you, there are plenty of, thereare plenty of places of employment.
It doesn't even have to be a kitchen,but there are plenty, plenty of
places where young people of.
Of multiple generations are coexistingand thriving, and there are multiple
(28:41):
kitchens, thousands of kitchens outthere, whether they be in hotels or
little tiny mom and pops or a winecountry resort where there are great
cultures that are passionate and they areengaged and very few people leave, right?
Mm-hmm.
And it's how they're being led.
So once again, thank you.
(29:03):
I love hearing somebody else who just.
Echos and it's very validating to me.
I'm like, see, I'm not the only one
franck (29:11):
there, there, there's plenty out there.
We just need to, uh, we, we just need it.
It's hard in being inthis position 'cause.
The environment and the worldwe are living in, make us
second guessing that thought.
And, and it makes us almost like lookingat it as like, am I thinking right?
Because now it's like out of 10 chefs,I'm the only one thinking that way.
(29:32):
And you know, the, the peerpressure of feeling like.
And, and, and now I got to a pointafter writing my book and after doing
podcast and talking to similar chef, Irealize that I'm not by myself into this.
And, but, but for so long, the corporationthat I work for and some of the, some
of the big name brand that I work for,I, I, I'm not gonna cast the blame on
(29:54):
them, but I felt like I was an anomaly.
I feel like I was thinking too differentand, and, and, and, and feeling
outcast or it's like, I, I don't know.
It, it is just, um, it, it's refreshingto hear people out there that are
trying to make some noise in orderto preach something they believe in.
Um, and, and, and I, I, I can only.
(30:16):
Relate to your way of thinking, andI, I appreciate for you to have me
on this episode because if you thinkthat way, we just need more of that.
We just need more of that, right?
Because we, we, I, I, I believewholeheartedly that, uh, I
am not an anomaly anymore.
I am not outcasted.
You're not gonna, you'renot gonna silence me.
And now I'm gonna say what I have to say.
Knowing that it does resonate with alot more people than I thought it would.
Simon (30:40):
Yeah.
Awesome.
I, I was telling somebody not too long agothe words that, that I know when I'm doing
something, right, when I hear these words,nobody's ever said that to me before.
That's when I know I'm startingto like chip away at the, at the
conventions that are, um, andmoving towards, um, uh, moving,
(31:06):
moving towards something that could.
Be, definitely be a, uh, a momentof reckoning for the restaurant
and hospitality industry.
I think that when we start to breakdown some of the older, we'll just call
'em, um, tyrannical processes, right?
Mm-hmm.
When you start to mm-hmm.
Break down that image of a chef andthat image of the industry and you
(31:28):
start to re remake it, things get.
It gets scary.
'cause I feel like we, we start to takeaway so many of the, the, the sides
of the building and is it gonna shake?
Yes, it's gonna shake.
And is it gonna be weird?
Yes, it's gonna be weird, but I thinkon the other side of that as uh,
an industry that where people canmake, make great food, create great
(31:50):
experiences, but also have a lifethat that doesn't hurt, you know?
franck (31:55):
Absolutely.
I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Simon (31:59):
Um.
So you wrote the book,you're out there consulting.
Um, you know, what, what do you see as,as the, like, what's, what's on the,
kind of the next thing on the ladder?
What, what do you like, what are you,what are you out there thinking about?
franck (32:19):
I, I, I, I, I mean, I, um.
Kind of thing.
I'm thinking about my brain.
I, I daydream daily.
Um, excellent.
I, I, I think, um, this book hasbeen, by the time it comes out about
12 days, it's gonna be nearly twoyears I've been starting this process.
It is not a, it is not a, a fast process.
(32:39):
It's something that Icannot wait to be out there.
Being read, I cannot wait for peopleto tell me what they thought of it.
I cannot wait for people, evenif it's one person that tells
me, Frank, he resonated with me.
I'm, I'm appreciative of youtaking the time to write it.
So, so I, I just need this bookto get into the right hands.
Anyone?
I wish I had this book when I was younger.
(33:03):
Knowing that that was thework that needed to be done.
Uh, and, and I could have probably fasttrack some of my thought process in some
aspect of it, or when I, I was, uh, anarrogant chef or when I was, uh, just
the one that did not have the skills.
I, I, I wish I had that so.
I, I, I think the goal of thisbook is really to get into the
(33:23):
right hand and establishing me,hopefully, I guess that's my wish.
It's establishing me as an authorityon the field of hospitality, um, with,
with a philosophy that does resonatewith people and for organization that
feels they have a culture problem, thenmaybe I could be the person that come and
help them out or partner on something.
(33:45):
Um, so I, I, I, I aspire to be.
Doing speaking engagement.
I aspire to be on a TED Talk.
Uh, I inspire to be just, just kind ofspreading the word of, uh, relentless
growth to whoever wants to hearit and whoever wants to apply it.
Um, and, um.
The very, very future.
There's gonna be a second book,and there was always a second book.
(34:07):
And, and after the first one whenyou worked about, uh, it, you worked
about you on you versus you mm-hmm.
With you.
Um, I, I like to think the second bookis now, is now that you have that mind.
Set one, you have that gross mindset andyou enter a workplace, you're an exec
chef, and you have a team of 60 Arian,and then nobody has that gross mindset.
(34:30):
And now the second book will be alot about what is it that you need
to do in order to influence an entireworkplace to think the way you think
and to behave the way you behave.
And, and I think it does.
Require, uh, a, a blueprint,it does require a framework.
It does require habits, itdoes require conversation.
It does require feedbacks, andone-on-ones, a developmental
(34:52):
approach to things.
So that, that, that in the near future, itwill be a second book, but first, uh, one
at the time, we wanna see how this one isbeing received, uh, how this one helped
the co, the, the hospitality and, uh,and hopefully the student of hospitality
that are currently at school, uh, at CIA.
Or cross hospitality program in thecountry, um, that will put their hands on
(35:14):
it and realize, and Islam, man, I'm, I'm,I'm, I'm, this has been helpful to me.
Um, therefore I want to continuethat path, um, and that, that's
only what I wish right now.
So, um, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm, uh,looking for more, I'm just looking to,
to grow more into my role, grow moreinto what I represent in the world of
hospitality and, and hopefully, uh,making a dent into this, uh, one of the
(35:37):
most demanding industry in the world.
Simon (35:41):
Relentless growth, baby.
I'm in.
Sign me up.
I cannot wait to to be.
Uh.
To be on the sidelines of watchingwhat is happening with you and
what you bring coming forward.
I appreciate that, chef Frank, thank youso much for coming and joining me today.
Playing in my little sandboxthat is culinary mechanic,
(36:02):
uh, really means a lot to me.
Um, I, in the show notes, I'm gonnamake sure that everybody can find
you, find the links to your book.
I will get all of those thingsdown and compiled in there.
Um.
And to all you out there,thank you for listening.
It really means a lot to me.
Um, the number of listeners seemsto just grow a little bit every
(36:23):
week, and I truly appreciate that.
So to all you out there, I'llcatch you on the flip side,
chef, I'll see you next time.
franck (36:30):
Thank you, chef Simon.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
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