October 8, 2025 • 43 mins
If your kitchen is held together by heroics, this episode is your reset. Chef Gerald Chin (Head of Culinary, MINA Group) breaks down how 30+ restaurants stay sharp: a non-negotiable expediting system, real SOPs everyone can find and use, and weekly manager reviews that grow leaders instead of babysitting them. We talk patience, holding the line on standards, and why fun and clarity can live in the same kitchen. If you’re chasing consistency, culture, and operational clarity without burning out your best people, this one’s for you.
You’ll hear practical plays for restaurant systems, kitchen leadership, chef culture, and what it takes to run a restaurant that doesn’t depend on a superhero chef.
Want a calmer, more profitable kitchen? Book a call with Simon.
Connect with Chef Gerald
Website: https://theminagroup.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chefgeraldchin/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerald-chin-a9676437/
Connect with Simon
Email: simon@culinarymechanic.com
Book a Call: https://calendly.com/culinarymechanic/discovery
Website: https://www.culinarymechanic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Gerald (00:31):
Yeah, sure.
Um, how I got started, uh, well,I grew up, I grew up in the,
uh, in the five borough, the NewYork, grew up in the Bronx, and
then midway through high school.
My dad moved us out to Long Island inthe suburbs and uh, you know, I wasn't
a good student, let's say, and I had theoption of doing half the day at vocational
(00:53):
school, half the day in high school.
Um, so in vocational I ended uptaking culinary arts or commercial
foods it was called at the time.
Um, and that was my junioryear in high school.
And, uh, I always had a thing for cooking,I guess, subconsciously in my brain.
Um, and then getting intoa professional environment.
You know, wood school and likeindustrial equipment and, you know,
(01:15):
broilers and yeah, huge fryers.
You know, at home wedidn't have that stuff.
And it from there that it just,uh, you know, I really, I connected
with it and that's kind of theshort, the short of the long.
Um, my two instructors there though,one just recently passed away.
John Murphy rest his soul,uh, he was a big part of it.
(01:38):
And also this guy, uh, Paul Gro.
To, uh, to instruct me that, you know,gave it the real back in high school
and, uh, these guys knew how to pull outany potential that was within someone
to, you know, be a part of this industryand continue to move on with this.
Simon (01:59):
Yeah.
Um, I wanna hear more about that,but I have a question for you.
So like, how.
I, I'm a big, I'm a big fanand, and like pulling out the
things that people can't see.
So how has that, like, fast forwardall the way to 2025, how does that
(02:20):
affect how you, how you work withyour younger chefs, how you work
with your chefs across the company?
Um, I mean, how, how has that,how does that affect, how did that
affect you or how does that affectYeah, how you manage and lead,
Gerald (02:34):
I guess?
Uh, you know, I think it'skind of easy, but it's not.
You know, I was fortunate enough, notmany chefs are able to get trained,
get trained to by a young age.
I was what, 16, you know?
Right.
And getting taught and what I learnedfrom them that I use in my career as
(02:56):
patients, um, you know, they have abunch of students from all sorts of
life and, you know, everyone had theirissues or, or, or restraints Right.
Just watching 'em and how theydealt with each individual was,
was pretty impressive at the time.
You don't really notice it untilyou get older and you look back and
(03:17):
you're like, man, you know, it wassome tough, some tough days they,
they had to deal with and, you know,they're professionals and just kept
everyone, uh, calm, cool, and collect.
Simon (03:29):
Awesome.
Um, you, you said one of my favoritephrases in the whole wide world,
just calm, cool, and collected.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, I was, I was just, I gotto teach a course this morning.
I was a, the fourth of afour part and it was, uh.
Entry level, entry, culinary peoplewho were trying to get jobs in big
(03:52):
convention centers through a labor union.
And the labor union isactually paying them to learn.
And it was one of the like calmunder pressure was the Yeah, it was,
it was kind of neat actually, folkswho, you could tell that there was
definitely some folks who'd, who'dbeen through the ringer and were
trying to put their life back togetheror had been struggling to find work.
And, uh, this local labor union uphere in Seattle, they were just.
(04:16):
Trying to, trying to find differentways to go about it, you know,
and, uh, it was really neat.
It was, it was special to be a part of.
They brought in resume people, youknow, to help 'em with their resume.
They brought in, they took 'em into the,the kitchens and, and did some basic
culinary, but I got to talk to 'em about.
How to be, how to be avaluable team member, you know?
(04:39):
And it was like calm under pressure.
And I think the, the phrase I use moreoften than not is eye of the hurricane.
Like, I wanna stand in thateye and I wanna be calm.
And it's okay if other people arefreaking out, but like, I'm gonna be calm.
Yeah.
Gerald (04:54):
Oh yeah.
So comic pool
Simon (04:56):
collected matters.
If the
Gerald (04:57):
captain loses the control of the ship, you know,
everyone's gonna freak out.
Simon (05:01):
Yeah.
And I think teachingcooks that same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, like lead yourself, leadyourself, um, and, and be calm while,
while you're, while your compatriotsare, are kinda losing their stuff.
Uh, it's quite amazing to seewhat happens when people can find
their center and really stay calm.
(05:23):
So, oh, yeah.
All right.
So you get in, you, you havewhat sounds to be like some
incredible early mentors, um, like.
What give us, give us the highlight reelof, of like the formative experiences.
Like what are those things?
Yeah.
That really kept you moving?
Gerald (05:40):
Uh, again, I got lucky in high school.
Ended up working at, youknow, a particular place.
I remember I was still, you know, 16, 17.
Um, I got to work for acertified master chef, you know.
Nice.
A real, you know, certified,you know, a master.
Um.
He was from Scotland originally,you know, worked in UK and
(06:02):
it was, uh, European style.
What, what he was teaching us andlearning from a true master, you know,
the fundamental the cooking WA was taught.
And that's what kind ofbuilt the foundation.
Um, like really professionalkitchen environment, set the
level of excellence and like.
(06:24):
Really knowing what's a stock,what's, what's a demi, what's,
you know, basics of cooking, butdone, done proper, I would say.
Um, and he wouldn't let anything go.
I remember mince and Shallots, itwas my first week and it was, it
was a country club and we had twoclub, the beach club and a main club.
And I'm at the Beach Club.
He's like, you got a Mincenine pan of salad from about
(06:48):
three quarters of the way done.
And he comes in the kitchen, dumpsit on the board, spreads it out.
Says they're no good and hethrows them in the trash.
I remember just tearing up, but Ididn't want to cry in front of him.
But as soon as he left, I went intothe walkin and I bawled my eyes out.
I was like, what did I do?
(07:09):
Um, and I redid it again, and hecame back and he was like, all right.
And I think he did it out of spite,but you know, it did teach a lesson.
I, you know.
Didn't take anythingfor granted after that.
No,
Simon (07:25):
I, I, I think, I'm not gonna say anymore that we've all had that
experience 'cause I feel like a lot ofyoungsters haven't been a part of that.
Um, I know I had, I had a chefwho was very, something very
similar and it's like, start over.
Like, what are you talking about whereit's like 20 minutes from service.
He's like, I don't give a damn.
Figure it out.
Yeah.
(07:45):
You know, um, I, I know that I wasrunning a place up here in Seattle
and I. I had one of those momentswhere like, we had Kotash and we
had, we did it in 35 pound batches.
It just, it was usuallylike a two person process.
Mm-hmm.
And I had a day and I waslike, no, this is going away.
(08:06):
Like I don't have to throw itaway, but I am not serving it.
And you know, my general manager'slooking at me like I'm crazy.
And I was like, if we don't set astandard, if we don't believe in the
standard right here and right now, andwe were probably only, I don't know,
two weeks into a brand new restaurant.
I was like, if we don't set a standardlike it, it's all downhill from here.
Gerald (08:26):
Oh yeah.
Right.
One thing goes slips by, thenthe next thing slips by and.
Simon (08:33):
It's very hard to get back.
Then you're average right then.
Then you're just like, and we were in apretty competitive area of Seattle where
it's like you got the tourism, but likewhere the, the company I was working for
was aiming for something better than theaverage tourist restaurant, you know?
And for me, like the fact thatyou remember that story, right?
(08:54):
Remember, you remember that moment.
It hits you deep down.
Uh.
I visited that restaurant a few yearslater, and this kid, I'm, I'm literally
sitting at the bar just having a beer, andthis kid comes up and he goes, excuse me.
And I said, what's up?
And he goes, you're Chef Simon, right?
And I said, I am.
(09:15):
He goes, I thought so, andI've heard stories about you.
And I was like, okay, I, I think thisis a good progression in the world.
Gerald (09:25):
Whenever someone says that to me, oh, I've heard a lot about you.
I go, it's all speculative.
Simon (09:32):
I, either I, yeah, I, for me it's either that or I pay a
lot of money for that, you know?
All right.
We got the chef, certified master chef.
Gerald (09:45):
Yep.
I, uh, um, end up going to CIACulinary Institute of America.
Um, and then from there I hadmet an instructor who happened
to be my first Guil first.
Kitchen with actual cooking.
And he ended up being my teacherin my last class when I graduated.
Um, so while we were, I wasgetting to the end, he asked if I
(10:07):
wanted to go to Switzerland to gowork and I was like, hell yeah.
Um, it was tough though becauseI had a, a, another opportunity.
My buddy who was working at TROhas offered for me to go work
there with him or, you know, heis like, there's a spot open.
It was really hard back then to getin and I ended up choosing to go to
(10:31):
Switzerland, you know, I was like, I'llnever be able to go over overseas again.
And I did that for about a year.
And same friend who's Brian Ogden,Bradley Ogden's son who opened up, okay.
Uh, restaurant's, seasons,palace in Las Vegas.
They called me up in Switzerlandto come back to the states.
(10:51):
Particularly Las Vegas tohelp open the restaurant.
And I was like, hell no.
I'm not coming back.
Yeah, I was enjoying lifeout there and cooking.
Right.
Um, so eventually they got me tocome back, uh, and we ended up
opening up the restaurant, whichwas probably the best thing ever.
It was a bunch of us who wentto school together, opened the
(11:13):
restaurant up and we were able toget James Beard, best new restaurant.
Uh, we got a Michelin star.
Fortunately, the restaurant closedafter about, I wanna say six,
seven years, maybe eight years.
Okay.
Um, but by then we were, we wereall pretty much gone and I wanted
(11:33):
to leave the, the states again.
I wanted to go back outta the country.
I wanted to go to Vancouver, actually.
Um, and I ended up meetingmy wife now at the time.
In Las Vegas, and I also said ifI'm gonna stay in Vegas, I want to
be a part of opening Joel Robeson'srestaurant who was opening in Las Vegas.
(11:55):
And I got lucky.
One night, the chef of the Mansion, whichis a 32 villa invite only kind of hotel
within a hotel at MGM, came in for dinner.
I cooked them and we were talking.
I said, you know, I'mthinking about leaving.
And then the only way I would stayif I could connect with Robeson.
Chefs.
(12:15):
He goes, oh, it's funny, youknow, they're cooking in my
kitchen now doing recipe testing.
So he introduced me to the chef.
Um, and then next thing you know, Iended up doing tasting, got the job,
and that's what made me stay in Vegas.
Um, so we opened that up, was therefor about a year, year and a half.
Then went over to the actual mansionside, uh, that chef had left.
(12:39):
So I ended up taking his spot.
32 villas.
Um, it's kind of crazy.
Uh, probably one of themost intense kitchen.
It is the most intensekitchen I ever worked in.
Um, precision was beyond precision rulers.
Uh, the story, the story you hear,and you know, in European three
(13:02):
star is, was exactly what it was.
I mean, you, you didn't have a ruler.
You, you pretty much couldn't cut anythingbecause they all had to be the same.
Um, weights down to the gram.
It was very, very preciseand, uh, it was intense.
Um, and then kind of thereis what kept me in Vegas.
(13:26):
I did a stint with RickMoonen, uh, seafood Place.
Um, then I went to, oh, I decided to do.
Hotel side that I've been doingrestaurants, um, like Cosmopolitan in
Las Vegas was opening up and that foodand beverage team I had worked with at
Caesars Palace from Bradley Ogden's.
(13:48):
And, uh, they were looking fora CDC for the hotel, which was
kind of a made up position.
Um, so I ended up doing that, but italso worked out because I was planning
on having a child with my wife.
We had, you know, been marriednow and I was like, this would
probably be the best time to havea kid while I'm at a hotel side.
(14:09):
'cause I'm not opening andclosing a restaurant every day.
Right.
Um, so I was able to do that fora few years and then I got the
itch, uh, to, to make a move.
Um, I did.
While I was at Cosmopolitan, I wasable to do a little food network
show and I only did it for the money,you know, 10 grand for one day.
(14:32):
And I was like, I'm in, um, ended updoing, uh, doing Chopped on food Network
right before my daughter was born.
And while I was there filming, shewas due the month I was there and I
was afraid I was gonna miss her birth.
So I was really nervous, but paidoff, you know, 10 grand helped.
Went a long way back then.
(14:54):
Hell yeah.
That's to, uh, yeah, that's great.
Help a newborn out.
Um, and then I got the itch to goback to restaurants and my buddies,
my buddy Dave, who was the corporatechef for me and a group at the time,
we all went to school together again.
And, uh, he's like, youknow, we got a spot.
Uh, originally it was supposed to be,um, Michael mean of the flagship of
(15:16):
Bellagio, and then it ended up being,okay, strip steak in Las Vegas steakhouse.
At first, I didn't like it.
I was like a steakhouse.
I'm like, no way.
I'm like, absolutely not.
Um, and then, uh, I decided to do itand probably the hardest job I've ever
had actually, um, with the union andjust fixing culture and, you know,
(15:38):
getting, getting systems back in placewhen they went let loose, just like he
was saying, you let something slip by.
You know, this had a lot of thingsslip by for better or worse, but, uh.
It was tough getting it back to where,you know, it should have been, uh, being
part of a Michael Mena group restaurant.
And then, uh, you know, from there, uh,chef Michael and I, we were talk, you
(16:02):
know, we and talks the whole time and,uh, always talked about the future.
Me personally, I was always looking aheadand, uh, you know, my next step from there
was to take over all the stake colleges.
'cause I was in one and then onething led to another, then it led to.
Uh, VP of culinary and then, youknow, now fast forward to head
(16:25):
of culinary, which Michael and I,you know, doing the whole thing.
And then Nice.
There are, uh, I have a West coastchef, a director, a East Coast director.
I have a VP of new openings.
So it's good, good structure nowand system to really make sure you
know things, uh, things go right.
(16:49):
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
(17:09):
notes to connect with me directly.
That's
Simon (17:11):
awesome.
Um, so in all that, like,I guess I think that
our, my listeners here on with culinarymechanic, like I wanna be able to
provide some, some thoughts on likehow you gauge that career, right?
(17:33):
So you.
I love the fact that you, you're like,I'm, I'm looking towards the future.
You know, like, did you ever see yourselfas doing that head of culinary, you
Gerald (17:44):
know, or, um, I honestly, at the time I wasn't thinking
of that big of a position.
Um, but I do to this day, ifyou talk to chef me, never.
To this day, he tells everyone Iam the absolute worst interview he
is ever had in his career, but I'mthe best hire he is ever hired.
(18:08):
I think that's important.
I I, I wasn't looking that far ahead.
I was looking at actually regional.
Like, I was like, allright, I'll take over Vegas.
'cause we have a few restaurants in Vegas.
Um, I didn't think it wouldbe, you know, multiple steaks.
Houses, you know, it was about seven orsix at the time, but in different states.
(18:30):
So I'd had to travel quite a bit.
Um, and then once I got intothat, then it kind of was like,
this could be a possibility.
Um, my buddy was, uh, had the role at thetime and I knew he was looking to do his
own thing and he was looking to leave and,you know, I didn't say I wanted it, but it
(18:53):
kind of just naturally happened, I guess.
Nice.
Um, and, uh, you know, one thingled to the next, and here it is.
Awesome.
All right,
Simon (19:05):
so I'm all about talk, kind of helping people understand more, a little
bit more about systems and leadership.
So how, like, tell us, I don't know.
A tell us sort of like what is your,what would you say your leadership
style is, but beyond that, like whatare some of the systems, some of the
(19:26):
bigger picture things that you've foundthat really have helped you maintain?
'cause you're, we're talkingabout 30 plus restaurants here.
Yeah,
Gerald (19:35):
my, it's funny everyone that knows me, um, and I go by G-Man, which is cra
you know, I've had that name forever.
My style is, uh, I love to have fun.
There's time to be serious andthere's time to, to be precise.
Um, when it gets down to crunch time,it's, you know, fun time's over.
(19:57):
But during prep, during setting up, uh, Ilove to have a good time and I, and I want
the team around me to feel comfortable.
Um, because, you know, goingback to the stories being in.
Kitchens that are just so strict whereyou're afraid to say anything, or you're
afraid to, you know, to say you gotta goto the restroom and leave the kitchen.
(20:20):
Right?
Those days are, those daysare over these days, I hope.
But, um, my team now, they all know me.
I, when we get on meetings and zoomjust like this, I'll have an agenda,
but I also like to have, I likethem to speak what's on their mind.
Um, let it out.
(20:42):
Good, bad, worse.
Um, and then I will give my feedbackon, on what they're thinking.
And it's, I'm always, I'ma collaborative person.
I love to collaborate.
I'll give ideas, but I want tohear ideas come back as well.
And I want them to feel likethey have creativity or they
have a voice or they have a, uh,they're part of the team as well.
(21:06):
If it was just me giving direction allthe time, you know, could be exhausting.
But also, you know, areyou really growing them?
And how do you know if you're growingthem, if you can't get feedback back
from them, what they're thinkingor letting them pick an idea.
And whether it's a dish, whetherit's a new system, uh, you know,
(21:27):
whether it's has to do with service,you know, uh, I, I love to hear
what they have to say and, and.
If it's really good,then we'll roll with it.
If it's not good, I'll say, well,maybe we should do it this way.
I would never say it's a terrible idea,but I would say maybe we wouldn't be
able to do it because of this, um, butwe could try to do something like this.
(21:50):
So, you know, always giving 'em feedbackthat, and I'm not saying whatever I say is
the best, but usually I get pretty closeto what would be, you know, the right.
I guess feedback for them.
Uh, for what they're looking for.
Um, and then, you know, it's funny,in two weeks I have an all chef
(22:14):
meeting, which I do, uh, bi-annually.
Um, and so in August, you know, allthe restaurants, 38 restaurants,
I'll have all the executive chefs on.
And, uh, our corporate team, we havea, a team called Rex as well, which
is, uh, our restaurant excellence team.
Um, and basically it's, you think about.
Task force is kind of what it is, but yetwe utilize it in a different way where
(22:39):
we hire chefs, whether it's an exec soupposition, a sous chef or an exec chef.
And the goal is they help us, we helpthem, uh, meaning we're doing openings.
They'll help open restaurants to this.
If there's a void in a restaurantthat needs help, uh, we'll
send them there to help out.
(23:00):
But there is an end goal wherewe train them mean a group.
System training.
Um, and our expectation, which theyknow is, uh, there to take over a
restaurant or go into a restaurant.
So if you're a number two, yourgoal is to become a number one.
And if you're a number one with us,you're definitely, uh, should be
(23:20):
getting a restaurant from us, youknow, in a city that typically, uh,
we like to give a choice, but ifit's a choice or not, um, you know,
if they don't want to go to Florida.
Um, usually we'll have a couple otheroptions, but if not, you know, they stay
on Rex with us till something opens that,uh, they would like to a city to live in.
(23:42):
But usually it works out when, whenwe have these open, open positions.
Um, so something that we do is, youknow, we take that serious where,
you know, we bring, and not a lotof restaurant groups do that at all.
You know, usually they'll bring them in.
Use them as mercenaries basically, right?
(24:02):
Help fix this, prep this.
But they're not actuallythinking of their future.
Um, you know, getting a number two, tobe a number one in a restaurant is huge.
And to get that training whileyou're on the road, uh, you
know, it's, it's invaluable.
Uh, it's very hard to come by.
Um, and then internally wealso have our online database.
(24:24):
Called mean exchange, where wehave, uh, tons of, uh, articles,
curricular curriculums, um, tests,you can take knowledge checks, um,
our SOPs, all these things thatcreate a restaurant, uh, or our group.
It's all in this database, andit's accessible to everyone.
(24:47):
Whether you're a dishwasher,you know, hostess, barback
step, anyone could go on there.
Learn.
That's incredible.
It really is.
Um, and we host weekly meetingsonce a week that it's very,
very, uh, it's very structured.
Um, you know, this meeting, there'sno fun to say, but, um, and it's
(25:10):
because we're really trying tofocus on building the next leaders.
Um, and we go through top to bottom.
On how healthy their restaurant is, tohow much of the SOP knowledge do they
know, and how much do their teams know?
Um, and where can we help,uh, help them be successful?
(25:31):
And, and literally every week wego, we go through restaurants.
We can't do all in one day, so we,we block off, you know, seven or
eight at a time, uh, week by week.
But it's every, it's every week.
Simon (25:45):
Awesome.
Oh, so let me ask you, I mean, talkingabout 38 restaurants, obviously there's
gonna be, there's probably more, Iknow from, from looking around that
there's multiples of, of each concept.
Do they all, like if you're talkingabout bourbon steak or whatever,
like are they all running thesame systems throughout or is it.
(26:09):
Pick and choose from a variety
Gerald (26:10):
kind of feel.
Good question.
You know, to be honest, it's hardto do a hundred percent, um, right.
'cause if we're not physicallythere to do it with them, who are
the actual, you know, when you'rethe ones always looking at 'em.
But yes, all of ourrestaurants use our systems.
Um, there's partnershipswith certain, like, you know,
(26:33):
four Seasons has their stuff.
They have to do as well.
But when it comes to within therestaurant, it's MENA Group Systems,
and the one system that we don'tveer from is our expediting system.
Um, okay, so if you walk into any MENAgroup, restaurant, uh, and you know, our
expediting system, you could immediatelywalk up to the board and know exactly
(26:57):
where the restaurant is or what table.
Time their ticket or entree or app iscoming without even having to ask anyone.
Um, and that's kind of, we saythe heartbeat of the restaurant.
Oh yeah.
And then from there, just, you know, fromour, our VIP SOPs to weighted guests,
SOPs, to uh, you know, we have an soP for everything and that's what helps
(27:22):
build the next leaders because we givethem this knowledge and and structure
where it's a lot harder to do it organic.
Um, and also when you teach 'em live,they can go back and read it, as I said,
in that database to back it up, right?
So, um, yeah, our, I would say ourexpediting system is what is very
(27:43):
consistent and our daily meetings we havewithin the restaurants is a standard,
and we do weekly manager meetingswhere corporate gets on their call with
them once a week, which is standard.
So, uh, they're, they'reusually about 90 plus percent.
Um, nice with our systems.
(28:05):
That's a far cry froma lot of things, man.
Oh yeah.
I mean, like that's, it's hard to do ahundred, but we, we try to get close.
Right.
Um,
Simon (28:18):
I mean, clearly you've been through, you've been through
some pretty, fairly diverse.
Cultures.
What do you think that really, I meanobviously there's SOPs and I absolutely
love that, but like what do you thinkreally stands out for you in the culture
of MENA restaurants that kind of hasreally helped you guys stand out?
Gerald (28:41):
Yeah.
Our culture is, uh,
I like to, like, I, I like tosay collaboration and I know we
set most of the menus, but yetcollaboration, not just menus.
We, I promote that.
We promote, we want our leadersto be, to have an ownership
(29:02):
mentality, put an owner's cap on.
And with that, that means, you know, notjust your day-to-day responsibilities,
it's you own the restaurant.
You know, what are you gonna doabout your cleaning crew that
you know isn't cleaning, right?
Or what are you gonna do about, uh, young.
The fryer's broken.
(29:23):
How do you, how do you fix it ifyou don't have an engineering?
But then there's things where you gota prep guy who wants to become a cook
and get on the line, you know, chef,how are you gonna make that happen?
What are you gonna dowith your sous chefs?
And we go into, you know, there'sall sorts of things that it's,
it's the collaboration and the,
(29:44):
they come to us with ideas sometimesthat are better than what we could give.
I mean, that's, that's the best part.
When.
We're making them think, we'repushing them to think better.
Uh, and when they come back with,with these ideas and answers, it's,
that's what, what really makes it.
Simon (30:04):
I think that's amazing.
I think one of the things that I'vebecome really fond of, of lately is
giving people the information and thestructure to make great decisions.
Mm-hmm.
And it, and just like you said, like I'malways shocked at like, I'll, I'll have
some ideas in mind when I'm, when I'mcoaching a chef or a few years back when
(30:25):
I was overseeing multiple restaurants.
But it's always amazing to me whenyou're, when you give people the ability.
Like the sort of the, the decisionmaking matrix, what they're able to
do that like, can easily surpass whatyou've done because 'cause human nature.
Yep.
Gerald (30:46):
And if the structure's there, you know, if you got a, a great, a
great racetrack, now you could putwhatever car you want on that track.
You want a Ferrari on there?
You want a Mercedes on there?
You gave them the roads.
It's paid beautifully.
You know, it's how fast they wantto go now and you know what style
they wanna, what kind of car theywant to get in and take that ride.
Simon (31:09):
Yeah.
Uh, it, it's funny, I, I. You talk to,you talk to some younger chefs nowadays,
and they, they, they, they use theword corporate, like it's a bad thing.
And they, you start talking aboutstructure and they're like, oh, I don't
want that to hinder my creativity.
And I'm like, man, you, you'relooking at it all wrong.
Gerald (31:32):
You know?
It's very, very true.
I've come across many interviewswhen I could sense that, um, you
know, first thing they ask is howmuch creativity you have on the menu.
And it's like, well.
We can get to that, but you wantthe honest, you know, it depends.
It could be 30%, it couldbe 50%, it could be 10%.
It all depends on where we feel you'reat and if you know our systems and
(31:57):
how the restaurant is operating whileyou're at the helm, yada, yada, yada.
You know, it's not just the menu.
Right.
You know, we're we truly hold ourchefs partic and GMs accountable,
you know, for their specificareas, front and back of the house.
Not just, you know, slice and indictingand cooking, growing your team.
(32:19):
Have you, if you're a chef there for twoyears, three years, how many cooks or
chefs have you passed on to us to move on?
You know, or wanna promote things.
Things that are, you know,are important these days.
Not saying running day to day isimportant, but the bigger, the
bigger picture is building thatnext, the next group of leaders.
Simon (32:42):
Yeah.
Uh.
It's always fascinating to me whenpeople, you know, I think this happens
through, through pop culture and media,like the, the view of chef gets fairly
narrow and what they really are sayingis Cook, but everybody thinks chef.
Mm-hmm.
If, if that makes sense.
Alright.
(33:02):
And so I, I love it.
I love it when I'm able to talk topeople and, and start to explain to them.
They're like, well thenwhat's the difference?
And it's like, man, if you, ifyou are asking that question, you,
you're, you're in for a world of hurt.
'cause this is, this is gonna like, comeheavy on the top of your head, you know?
Um, but I just, I love thatconversation because it's like.
(33:24):
There people, people are like,people are like, oh, you know what?
It's, it's about the cooking.
I'm like, cooking ends up being20% of what we do, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, and, and even the crecreative aspects, right?
Like for me, consistency isalways gonna be more important
to me than creativity, right?
Because a hundred percent, if you'renot consistent, you don't get the
(33:48):
opportunity and the privilege to create.
There's just no two ways about it.
Gerald (33:52):
And that's, that's a. Part where I think still some of the
younger, inexperienced cooks orchefs, uh, I'll never forget, one
of the things was told to me isthe hardest thing in the business.
Consistency.
And they, they also saidkey success is consistency.
And when you have chefs that want tobe creative, it's cool to change menus.
(34:15):
You know, I've done it week by week,day by day, but at some point it's, uh.
It's very hard to get your team andstaff, I guess well trained because
it's just, when it changes so much, sofast, it's very hard to keep systems in
place to allow 'em to like teach it tosomeone else if you weren't there and
(34:40):
the machine would only run if you'rethere 'cause you're the creative one and
now you gotta watch them and show them.
But then.
You change the menu a weeklater, a system, and now you're
like, well, I showed you that.
And you know, like the cook's like, Idon't really remember because it was,
you know, two weeks ago, you know?
Yep.
It doesn't really stick.
(35:00):
So it's something that, uh, thework consistency is very powerful in
the, in this, uh, in this industry.
Simon (35:10):
Yeah.
Gerald (35:11):
The hardest thing to do.
Simon (35:13):
I, I agree.
You know, it's funny, I, I was talkingwith a chef recently and I said,
so what do you most wanna improve?
Right?
Like, you now you nowhave a coach right in me.
You now have an advisorwith a lot of experience.
What do you wanna work on?
'cause I can look at your kitchenand probably find five to 10 things.
Mm-hmm.
I said, what do you wanna work on?
(35:34):
And he said, consistency.
And I said.
How about if we worked on quality?
What do you, what do you think about that?
He is like, well, Ithink the quality's good.
And I was like, so is good.
Your measure of the top.
And so we, that kind of led usinto a, a long conversation,
but, uh, it's an interesting.
(35:55):
I guess it's an interesting dialoguefor me to, to go down that road and
say, where, what are you gonna push on?
Are you gonna push on quality?
Are you gonna push on consistency?
Because for me, I think if you pushon quality every day and making
sure that that's the best it can beand are consistent in your actions,
consistency comes right along.
Gerald (36:14):
Mm-hmm.
Very true,
Simon (36:16):
very true.
Um, but, uh, I, I love, I love talking topeople who understand like the value of
consistency and, and the business aspect.
Um, all right.
I gotta ask, so like, what's yourfavorite part about this job?
'cause this is, uh, this is a
Gerald (36:34):
pretty special thing that you got.
Um, yeah, for me it's easy.
I mean, I get that question asked a lot.
Uh, I love the, the travel of.
I love the traveling part, andparticularly when I go into each
operation is talking to the teamsand meeting, you know, the employees
because not being, there's some times Iwouldn't get to a restaurant in years.
(36:59):
Um, right.
There's times when I'm in arestaurant, probably twice a month.
Um, so when I get to travel and getto talk to the teams and kind of.
Usually the, the leaders, I bring themout, you know, I take them outside of
the restaurant and, you know, get 'emout of the, the restaurant and kind of
(37:21):
shoot the shit with 'em and, you know,be normal, you know, not all the bosses
here, you know, we gotta play nice,you know, I'll, we'll get a beer and
just, I like to have 'em relax and, youknow, see what, what they've been doing,
what's going on, uh, what's the foodscene around where they're at, you know?
Kinda relevant to the industry,but not completely cut off.
(37:42):
Um, and that, you know, to show that,uh, you know, I'm around but not around,
you know, giving 'em support and, and thecamaraderie of I'm here and I, and it's,
I love taking both front and back GM chefor Exec Sue and a GM, you know, whatever.
But I always like to do the combinationof the two, having a front and a back.
(38:06):
Um.
And it, and it shows, uh, well,one, it gives 'cause we're not
there every day to see what kind ofrelationship's happening front and back.
Right, right.
Um, but two, also to make sure,like whatever I say in the back, the
front knows, or the front, whateverI say in the front, the back know,
you know, there's no, it's oneteam, one dream kind of mentality.
(38:27):
Awesome, awesome.
Um,
Simon (38:31):
I think for me, I, I love that kind of thing because.
It always reaffirms somethingthat I've said for years, and
that is cooks are cooks man.
Right?
Like, I
Gerald (38:42):
just love it.
Introverts, cooks are introvertsusually like, oh, they think totally
run, you know, it, uh, they allhate the front of the house, so
the front hates the, you know, youhear these stories, but so funny.
Simon (38:57):
But it's, it's so funny.
It's so fun to see like differenthow, like kitchens or kitchens, right?
You just start to hear the stories andthey just, I'm sure that you see it
even more having a large company, havingbeen a part of a seven unit company.
It's like the, the, the humandynamic lessons to be learned.
(39:19):
They repeat themselves.
Gerald (39:23):
Yeah.
It's uh.
There's still, uh, I mean, you'realways gonna have those, the few
that are, you know, that's just howthey are and they'll never change.
Um, they don't vocalize it, youknow, to say like poison the water
or say, you know, around them.
But you can tell, uh, theykeep it to themselves.
(39:45):
They'll say things under theirbreath, but nothing where like.
Becomes an issue for us or that's good,we actually, or sometimes we'll do,
you know, we'll do trainings withinthe restaurant front and back and
we'll purposely pick, you know, thoseindividuals and like pair them up with
each other so they're like uncomfortable.
(40:05):
Um, but then after, you know, a 30 minuteseminar with us, they're like completely
comfortable and best friends with theperson they thought they hated, you know?
Simon (40:15):
That's awesome.
Uh, yeah, I, I mean, I thinkit goes back to like we, we are
more alike than we are different.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, well, awesome.
Um, I can't tell you how much I appreciateyou coming to play with me today.
Hanging out my littlesandbox of the world.
Gerald (40:35):
Wow.
Listen, I'm sorry I was, I was late.
I totally, uh, spaced out there,but I appreciate you having me on.
Um, it's always good to hear.
Actually having myself think back on,on the olden days, you know, brings
back, brings back great memories.
Yeah.
I mean,
Simon (40:54):
I,
Gerald (40:55):
go ahead.
Go ahead.
No, I was gonna say I wouldn't changeit for any, and everyone's like, you
know, what would you have done ifyou weren't doing what you're doing?
And I always answer it pretty quick.
'cause I love magic.
I'm like, oh, I'll be a, Iwould've been a magician, you know?
But that's not, you know, that's fantasy.
It's not real to me.
But I don't think I. I wouldenjoy doing anything else.
(41:16):
Uh, you know, doing what I do.
Yeah.
Or being in I an industry.
Simon (41:21):
Yeah.
I, I can't, I struggle,I struggle sometimes.
People ask me that questionnumerous times, you know?
And, and I, I struggle to thinkof what else I would've done.
I mean, I dropped outtacollege to do this.
I, I absolutely love it.
Yeah.
And then when I stopped workingin the restaurants, people were
like, do you think you should have.
(41:42):
Quit earlier.
I was like, no, I absolutely,like, I loved it all the way
up until I didn't, you know?
Yeah.
Um, so I, I think that, I think, I thinkif you're into a career or you're into
a, you know, a, a vocation of whateverstyle, like, as long as you're loving
it and having fun, I mean, the factthat you list fun kind of on the top
(42:06):
of the list is, uh, it makes my heart.
Gerald (42:10):
Gotta
Simon (42:10):
fun lot
Gerald (42:11):
chop.
Be gotta be fun.
I mean, if you ask anyone, Imean, I love to have a good time.
Uh, I love to laugh.
I love to make jokes.
Um, 'cause it's a stressful,it's stressful, you know,
we work against the clock.
Um, you know, it's fast paced.
It's, you gotta be focused.
But when you don't have to befocused, that's when you gotta let
(42:31):
loose and just, you know, have fununtil you're ready to get serious.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Simon (42:38):
Well, chef, uh, once again, thank you so much for coming to
play and, um, to all you out there.
Uh, thanks.
Please, uh, continue to check it outand, uh, we'll see you next time.
Gerald (42:49):
All right.
Thank you.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
(00:21):
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
Gerald (00:31):
Yeah, sure.
Um, how I got started, uh, well,I grew up, I grew up in the,
uh, in the five borough, the NewYork, grew up in the Bronx, and
then midway through high school.
My dad moved us out to Long Island inthe suburbs and uh, you know, I wasn't
a good student, let's say, and I had theoption of doing half the day at vocational
(00:53):
school, half the day in high school.
Um, so in vocational I ended uptaking culinary arts or commercial
foods it was called at the time.
Um, and that was my junioryear in high school.
And, uh, I always had a thing for cooking,I guess, subconsciously in my brain.
Um, and then getting intoa professional environment.
You know, wood school and likeindustrial equipment and, you know,
(01:15):
broilers and yeah, huge fryers.
You know, at home wedidn't have that stuff.
And it from there that it just,uh, you know, I really, I connected
with it and that's kind of theshort, the short of the long.
Um, my two instructors there though,one just recently passed away.
John Murphy rest his soul,uh, he was a big part of it.
(01:38):
And also this guy, uh, Paul Gro.
To, uh, to instruct me that, you know,gave it the real back in high school
and, uh, these guys knew how to pull outany potential that was within someone
to, you know, be a part of this industryand continue to move on with this.
Simon (01:59):
Yeah.
Um, I wanna hear more about that,but I have a question for you.
So like, how.
I, I'm a big, I'm a big fanand, and like pulling out the
things that people can't see.
So how has that, like, fast forwardall the way to 2025, how does that
(02:20):
affect how you, how you work withyour younger chefs, how you work
with your chefs across the company?
Um, I mean, how, how has that,how does that affect, how did that
affect you or how does that affectYeah, how you manage and lead,
Gerald (02:34):
I guess?
Uh, you know, I think it'skind of easy, but it's not.
You know, I was fortunate enough, notmany chefs are able to get trained,
get trained to by a young age.
I was what, 16, you know?
Right.
And getting taught and what I learnedfrom them that I use in my career as
(02:56):
patients, um, you know, they have abunch of students from all sorts of
life and, you know, everyone had theirissues or, or, or restraints Right.
Just watching 'em and how theydealt with each individual was,
was pretty impressive at the time.
You don't really notice it untilyou get older and you look back and
(03:17):
you're like, man, you know, it wassome tough, some tough days they,
they had to deal with and, you know,they're professionals and just kept
everyone, uh, calm, cool, and collect.
Simon (03:29):
Awesome.
Um, you, you said one of my favoritephrases in the whole wide world,
just calm, cool, and collected.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, I was, I was just, I gotto teach a course this morning.
I was a, the fourth of afour part and it was, uh.
Entry level, entry, culinary peoplewho were trying to get jobs in big
(03:52):
convention centers through a labor union.
And the labor union isactually paying them to learn.
And it was one of the like calmunder pressure was the Yeah, it was,
it was kind of neat actually, folkswho, you could tell that there was
definitely some folks who'd, who'dbeen through the ringer and were
trying to put their life back togetheror had been struggling to find work.
And, uh, this local labor union uphere in Seattle, they were just.
(04:16):
Trying to, trying to find differentways to go about it, you know,
and, uh, it was really neat.
It was, it was special to be a part of.
They brought in resume people, youknow, to help 'em with their resume.
They brought in, they took 'em into the,the kitchens and, and did some basic
culinary, but I got to talk to 'em about.
How to be, how to be avaluable team member, you know?
(04:39):
And it was like calm under pressure.
And I think the, the phrase I use moreoften than not is eye of the hurricane.
Like, I wanna stand in thateye and I wanna be calm.
And it's okay if other people arefreaking out, but like, I'm gonna be calm.
Yeah.
Gerald (04:54):
Oh yeah.
So comic pool
Simon (04:56):
collected matters.
If the
Gerald (04:57):
captain loses the control of the ship, you know,
everyone's gonna freak out.
Simon (05:01):
Yeah.
And I think teachingcooks that same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, like lead yourself, leadyourself, um, and, and be calm while,
while you're, while your compatriotsare, are kinda losing their stuff.
Uh, it's quite amazing to seewhat happens when people can find
their center and really stay calm.
(05:23):
So, oh, yeah.
All right.
So you get in, you, you havewhat sounds to be like some
incredible early mentors, um, like.
What give us, give us the highlight reelof, of like the formative experiences.
Like what are those things?
Yeah.
That really kept you moving?
Gerald (05:40):
Uh, again, I got lucky in high school.
Ended up working at, youknow, a particular place.
I remember I was still, you know, 16, 17.
Um, I got to work for acertified master chef, you know.
Nice.
A real, you know, certified,you know, a master.
Um.
He was from Scotland originally,you know, worked in UK and
(06:02):
it was, uh, European style.
What, what he was teaching us andlearning from a true master, you know,
the fundamental the cooking WA was taught.
And that's what kind ofbuilt the foundation.
Um, like really professionalkitchen environment, set the
level of excellence and like.
(06:24):
Really knowing what's a stock,what's, what's a demi, what's,
you know, basics of cooking, butdone, done proper, I would say.
Um, and he wouldn't let anything go.
I remember mince and Shallots, itwas my first week and it was, it
was a country club and we had twoclub, the beach club and a main club.
And I'm at the Beach Club.
He's like, you got a Mincenine pan of salad from about
(06:48):
three quarters of the way done.
And he comes in the kitchen, dumpsit on the board, spreads it out.
Says they're no good and hethrows them in the trash.
I remember just tearing up, but Ididn't want to cry in front of him.
But as soon as he left, I went intothe walkin and I bawled my eyes out.
I was like, what did I do?
(07:09):
Um, and I redid it again, and hecame back and he was like, all right.
And I think he did it out of spite,but you know, it did teach a lesson.
I, you know.
Didn't take anythingfor granted after that.
No,
Simon (07:25):
I, I, I think, I'm not gonna say anymore that we've all had that
experience 'cause I feel like a lot ofyoungsters haven't been a part of that.
Um, I know I had, I had a chefwho was very, something very
similar and it's like, start over.
Like, what are you talking about whereit's like 20 minutes from service.
He's like, I don't give a damn.
Figure it out.
Yeah.
(07:45):
You know, um, I, I know that I wasrunning a place up here in Seattle
and I. I had one of those momentswhere like, we had Kotash and we
had, we did it in 35 pound batches.
It just, it was usuallylike a two person process.
Mm-hmm.
And I had a day and I waslike, no, this is going away.
(08:06):
Like I don't have to throw itaway, but I am not serving it.
And you know, my general manager'slooking at me like I'm crazy.
And I was like, if we don't set astandard, if we don't believe in the
standard right here and right now, andwe were probably only, I don't know,
two weeks into a brand new restaurant.
I was like, if we don't set a standardlike it, it's all downhill from here.
Gerald (08:26):
Oh yeah.
Right.
One thing goes slips by, thenthe next thing slips by and.
Simon (08:33):
It's very hard to get back.
Then you're average right then.
Then you're just like, and we were in apretty competitive area of Seattle where
it's like you got the tourism, but likewhere the, the company I was working for
was aiming for something better than theaverage tourist restaurant, you know?
And for me, like the fact thatyou remember that story, right?
(08:54):
Remember, you remember that moment.
It hits you deep down.
Uh.
I visited that restaurant a few yearslater, and this kid, I'm, I'm literally
sitting at the bar just having a beer, andthis kid comes up and he goes, excuse me.
And I said, what's up?
And he goes, you're Chef Simon, right?
And I said, I am.
(09:15):
He goes, I thought so, andI've heard stories about you.
And I was like, okay, I, I think thisis a good progression in the world.
Gerald (09:25):
Whenever someone says that to me, oh, I've heard a lot about you.
I go, it's all speculative.
Simon (09:32):
I, either I, yeah, I, for me it's either that or I pay a
lot of money for that, you know?
All right.
We got the chef, certified master chef.
Gerald (09:45):
Yep.
I, uh, um, end up going to CIACulinary Institute of America.
Um, and then from there I hadmet an instructor who happened
to be my first Guil first.
Kitchen with actual cooking.
And he ended up being my teacherin my last class when I graduated.
Um, so while we were, I wasgetting to the end, he asked if I
(10:07):
wanted to go to Switzerland to gowork and I was like, hell yeah.
Um, it was tough though becauseI had a, a, another opportunity.
My buddy who was working at TROhas offered for me to go work
there with him or, you know, heis like, there's a spot open.
It was really hard back then to getin and I ended up choosing to go to
(10:31):
Switzerland, you know, I was like, I'llnever be able to go over overseas again.
And I did that for about a year.
And same friend who's Brian Ogden,Bradley Ogden's son who opened up, okay.
Uh, restaurant's, seasons,palace in Las Vegas.
They called me up in Switzerlandto come back to the states.
(10:51):
Particularly Las Vegas tohelp open the restaurant.
And I was like, hell no.
I'm not coming back.
Yeah, I was enjoying lifeout there and cooking.
Right.
Um, so eventually they got me tocome back, uh, and we ended up
opening up the restaurant, whichwas probably the best thing ever.
It was a bunch of us who wentto school together, opened the
(11:13):
restaurant up and we were able toget James Beard, best new restaurant.
Uh, we got a Michelin star.
Fortunately, the restaurant closedafter about, I wanna say six,
seven years, maybe eight years.
Okay.
Um, but by then we were, we wereall pretty much gone and I wanted
(11:33):
to leave the, the states again.
I wanted to go back outta the country.
I wanted to go to Vancouver, actually.
Um, and I ended up meetingmy wife now at the time.
In Las Vegas, and I also said ifI'm gonna stay in Vegas, I want to
be a part of opening Joel Robeson'srestaurant who was opening in Las Vegas.
(11:55):
And I got lucky.
One night, the chef of the Mansion, whichis a 32 villa invite only kind of hotel
within a hotel at MGM, came in for dinner.
I cooked them and we were talking.
I said, you know, I'mthinking about leaving.
And then the only way I would stayif I could connect with Robeson.
Chefs.
(12:15):
He goes, oh, it's funny, youknow, they're cooking in my
kitchen now doing recipe testing.
So he introduced me to the chef.
Um, and then next thing you know, Iended up doing tasting, got the job,
and that's what made me stay in Vegas.
Um, so we opened that up, was therefor about a year, year and a half.
Then went over to the actual mansionside, uh, that chef had left.
(12:39):
So I ended up taking his spot.
32 villas.
Um, it's kind of crazy.
Uh, probably one of themost intense kitchen.
It is the most intensekitchen I ever worked in.
Um, precision was beyond precision rulers.
Uh, the story, the story you hear,and you know, in European three
(13:02):
star is, was exactly what it was.
I mean, you, you didn't have a ruler.
You, you pretty much couldn't cut anythingbecause they all had to be the same.
Um, weights down to the gram.
It was very, very preciseand, uh, it was intense.
Um, and then kind of thereis what kept me in Vegas.
(13:26):
I did a stint with RickMoonen, uh, seafood Place.
Um, then I went to, oh, I decided to do.
Hotel side that I've been doingrestaurants, um, like Cosmopolitan in
Las Vegas was opening up and that foodand beverage team I had worked with at
Caesars Palace from Bradley Ogden's.
(13:48):
And, uh, they were looking fora CDC for the hotel, which was
kind of a made up position.
Um, so I ended up doing that, but italso worked out because I was planning
on having a child with my wife.
We had, you know, been marriednow and I was like, this would
probably be the best time to havea kid while I'm at a hotel side.
(14:09):
'cause I'm not opening andclosing a restaurant every day.
Right.
Um, so I was able to do that fora few years and then I got the
itch, uh, to, to make a move.
Um, I did.
While I was at Cosmopolitan, I wasable to do a little food network
show and I only did it for the money,you know, 10 grand for one day.
(14:32):
And I was like, I'm in, um, ended updoing, uh, doing Chopped on food Network
right before my daughter was born.
And while I was there filming, shewas due the month I was there and I
was afraid I was gonna miss her birth.
So I was really nervous, but paidoff, you know, 10 grand helped.
Went a long way back then.
(14:54):
Hell yeah.
That's to, uh, yeah, that's great.
Help a newborn out.
Um, and then I got the itch to goback to restaurants and my buddies,
my buddy Dave, who was the corporatechef for me and a group at the time,
we all went to school together again.
And, uh, he's like, youknow, we got a spot.
Uh, originally it was supposed to be,um, Michael mean of the flagship of
(15:16):
Bellagio, and then it ended up being,okay, strip steak in Las Vegas steakhouse.
At first, I didn't like it.
I was like a steakhouse.
I'm like, no way.
I'm like, absolutely not.
Um, and then, uh, I decided to do itand probably the hardest job I've ever
had actually, um, with the union andjust fixing culture and, you know,
(15:38):
getting, getting systems back in placewhen they went let loose, just like he
was saying, you let something slip by.
You know, this had a lot of thingsslip by for better or worse, but, uh.
It was tough getting it back to where,you know, it should have been, uh, being
part of a Michael Mena group restaurant.
And then, uh, you know, from there, uh,chef Michael and I, we were talk, you
(16:02):
know, we and talks the whole time and,uh, always talked about the future.
Me personally, I was always looking aheadand, uh, you know, my next step from there
was to take over all the stake colleges.
'cause I was in one and then onething led to another, then it led to.
Uh, VP of culinary and then, youknow, now fast forward to head
(16:25):
of culinary, which Michael and I,you know, doing the whole thing.
And then Nice.
There are, uh, I have a West coastchef, a director, a East Coast director.
I have a VP of new openings.
So it's good, good structure nowand system to really make sure you
know things, uh, things go right.
(16:49):
Let's pause for a second.
If you're serious about building a kitchenthat leads from the top runs on systems
and actually feels good to work in, makesure you're following culinary mechanic.
This show is all about helping youlead better, scale smarter, and
stop white knuckling your business.
And if you're ready to dig in deeper,you'll find a link in the show
(17:09):
notes to connect with me directly.
That's
Simon (17:11):
awesome.
Um, so in all that, like,I guess I think that
our, my listeners here on with culinarymechanic, like I wanna be able to
provide some, some thoughts on likehow you gauge that career, right?
(17:33):
So you.
I love the fact that you, you're like,I'm, I'm looking towards the future.
You know, like, did you ever see yourselfas doing that head of culinary, you
Gerald (17:44):
know, or, um, I honestly, at the time I wasn't thinking
of that big of a position.
Um, but I do to this day, ifyou talk to chef me, never.
To this day, he tells everyone Iam the absolute worst interview he
is ever had in his career, but I'mthe best hire he is ever hired.
(18:08):
I think that's important.
I I, I wasn't looking that far ahead.
I was looking at actually regional.
Like, I was like, allright, I'll take over Vegas.
'cause we have a few restaurants in Vegas.
Um, I didn't think it wouldbe, you know, multiple steaks.
Houses, you know, it was about seven orsix at the time, but in different states.
(18:30):
So I'd had to travel quite a bit.
Um, and then once I got intothat, then it kind of was like,
this could be a possibility.
Um, my buddy was, uh, had the role at thetime and I knew he was looking to do his
own thing and he was looking to leave and,you know, I didn't say I wanted it, but it
(18:53):
kind of just naturally happened, I guess.
Nice.
Um, and, uh, you know, one thingled to the next, and here it is.
Awesome.
All right,
Simon (19:05):
so I'm all about talk, kind of helping people understand more, a little
bit more about systems and leadership.
So how, like, tell us, I don't know.
A tell us sort of like what is your,what would you say your leadership
style is, but beyond that, like whatare some of the systems, some of the
(19:26):
bigger picture things that you've foundthat really have helped you maintain?
'cause you're, we're talkingabout 30 plus restaurants here.
Yeah,
Gerald (19:35):
my, it's funny everyone that knows me, um, and I go by G-Man, which is cra
you know, I've had that name forever.
My style is, uh, I love to have fun.
There's time to be serious andthere's time to, to be precise.
Um, when it gets down to crunch time,it's, you know, fun time's over.
(19:57):
But during prep, during setting up, uh, Ilove to have a good time and I, and I want
the team around me to feel comfortable.
Um, because, you know, goingback to the stories being in.
Kitchens that are just so strict whereyou're afraid to say anything, or you're
afraid to, you know, to say you gotta goto the restroom and leave the kitchen.
(20:20):
Right?
Those days are, those daysare over these days, I hope.
But, um, my team now, they all know me.
I, when we get on meetings and zoomjust like this, I'll have an agenda,
but I also like to have, I likethem to speak what's on their mind.
Um, let it out.
(20:42):
Good, bad, worse.
Um, and then I will give my feedbackon, on what they're thinking.
And it's, I'm always, I'ma collaborative person.
I love to collaborate.
I'll give ideas, but I want tohear ideas come back as well.
And I want them to feel likethey have creativity or they
have a voice or they have a, uh,they're part of the team as well.
(21:06):
If it was just me giving direction allthe time, you know, could be exhausting.
But also, you know, areyou really growing them?
And how do you know if you're growingthem, if you can't get feedback back
from them, what they're thinkingor letting them pick an idea.
And whether it's a dish, whetherit's a new system, uh, you know,
(21:27):
whether it's has to do with service,you know, uh, I, I love to hear
what they have to say and, and.
If it's really good,then we'll roll with it.
If it's not good, I'll say, well,maybe we should do it this way.
I would never say it's a terrible idea,but I would say maybe we wouldn't be
able to do it because of this, um, butwe could try to do something like this.
(21:50):
So, you know, always giving 'em feedbackthat, and I'm not saying whatever I say is
the best, but usually I get pretty closeto what would be, you know, the right.
I guess feedback for them.
Uh, for what they're looking for.
Um, and then, you know, it's funny,in two weeks I have an all chef
(22:14):
meeting, which I do, uh, bi-annually.
Um, and so in August, you know, allthe restaurants, 38 restaurants,
I'll have all the executive chefs on.
And, uh, our corporate team, we havea, a team called Rex as well, which
is, uh, our restaurant excellence team.
Um, and basically it's, you think about.
Task force is kind of what it is, but yetwe utilize it in a different way where
(22:39):
we hire chefs, whether it's an exec soupposition, a sous chef or an exec chef.
And the goal is they help us, we helpthem, uh, meaning we're doing openings.
They'll help open restaurants to this.
If there's a void in a restaurantthat needs help, uh, we'll
send them there to help out.
(23:00):
But there is an end goal wherewe train them mean a group.
System training.
Um, and our expectation, which theyknow is, uh, there to take over a
restaurant or go into a restaurant.
So if you're a number two, yourgoal is to become a number one.
And if you're a number one with us,you're definitely, uh, should be
(23:20):
getting a restaurant from us, youknow, in a city that typically, uh,
we like to give a choice, but ifit's a choice or not, um, you know,
if they don't want to go to Florida.
Um, usually we'll have a couple otheroptions, but if not, you know, they stay
on Rex with us till something opens that,uh, they would like to a city to live in.
(23:42):
But usually it works out when, whenwe have these open, open positions.
Um, so something that we do is, youknow, we take that serious where,
you know, we bring, and not a lotof restaurant groups do that at all.
You know, usually they'll bring them in.
Use them as mercenaries basically, right?
(24:02):
Help fix this, prep this.
But they're not actuallythinking of their future.
Um, you know, getting a number two, tobe a number one in a restaurant is huge.
And to get that training whileyou're on the road, uh, you
know, it's, it's invaluable.
Uh, it's very hard to come by.
Um, and then internally wealso have our online database.
(24:24):
Called mean exchange, where wehave, uh, tons of, uh, articles,
curricular curriculums, um, tests,you can take knowledge checks, um,
our SOPs, all these things thatcreate a restaurant, uh, or our group.
It's all in this database, andit's accessible to everyone.
(24:47):
Whether you're a dishwasher,you know, hostess, barback
step, anyone could go on there.
Learn.
That's incredible.
It really is.
Um, and we host weekly meetingsonce a week that it's very,
very, uh, it's very structured.
Um, you know, this meeting, there'sno fun to say, but, um, and it's
(25:10):
because we're really trying tofocus on building the next leaders.
Um, and we go through top to bottom.
On how healthy their restaurant is, tohow much of the SOP knowledge do they
know, and how much do their teams know?
Um, and where can we help,uh, help them be successful?
(25:31):
And, and literally every week wego, we go through restaurants.
We can't do all in one day, so we,we block off, you know, seven or
eight at a time, uh, week by week.
But it's every, it's every week.
Simon (25:45):
Awesome.
Oh, so let me ask you, I mean, talkingabout 38 restaurants, obviously there's
gonna be, there's probably more, Iknow from, from looking around that
there's multiples of, of each concept.
Do they all, like if you're talkingabout bourbon steak or whatever,
like are they all running thesame systems throughout or is it.
(26:09):
Pick and choose from a variety
Gerald (26:10):
kind of feel.
Good question.
You know, to be honest, it's hardto do a hundred percent, um, right.
'cause if we're not physicallythere to do it with them, who are
the actual, you know, when you'rethe ones always looking at 'em.
But yes, all of ourrestaurants use our systems.
Um, there's partnershipswith certain, like, you know,
(26:33):
four Seasons has their stuff.
They have to do as well.
But when it comes to within therestaurant, it's MENA Group Systems,
and the one system that we don'tveer from is our expediting system.
Um, okay, so if you walk into any MENAgroup, restaurant, uh, and you know, our
expediting system, you could immediatelywalk up to the board and know exactly
(26:57):
where the restaurant is or what table.
Time their ticket or entree or app iscoming without even having to ask anyone.
Um, and that's kind of, we saythe heartbeat of the restaurant.
Oh yeah.
And then from there, just, you know, fromour, our VIP SOPs to weighted guests,
SOPs, to uh, you know, we have an soP for everything and that's what helps
(27:22):
build the next leaders because we givethem this knowledge and and structure
where it's a lot harder to do it organic.
Um, and also when you teach 'em live,they can go back and read it, as I said,
in that database to back it up, right?
So, um, yeah, our, I would say ourexpediting system is what is very
(27:43):
consistent and our daily meetings we havewithin the restaurants is a standard,
and we do weekly manager meetingswhere corporate gets on their call with
them once a week, which is standard.
So, uh, they're, they'reusually about 90 plus percent.
Um, nice with our systems.
(28:05):
That's a far cry froma lot of things, man.
Oh yeah.
I mean, like that's, it's hard to do ahundred, but we, we try to get close.
Right.
Um,
Simon (28:18):
I mean, clearly you've been through, you've been through
some pretty, fairly diverse.
Cultures.
What do you think that really, I meanobviously there's SOPs and I absolutely
love that, but like what do you thinkreally stands out for you in the culture
of MENA restaurants that kind of hasreally helped you guys stand out?
Gerald (28:41):
Yeah.
Our culture is, uh,
I like to, like, I, I like tosay collaboration and I know we
set most of the menus, but yetcollaboration, not just menus.
We, I promote that.
We promote, we want our leadersto be, to have an ownership
(29:02):
mentality, put an owner's cap on.
And with that, that means, you know, notjust your day-to-day responsibilities,
it's you own the restaurant.
You know, what are you gonna doabout your cleaning crew that
you know isn't cleaning, right?
Or what are you gonna do about, uh, young.
The fryer's broken.
(29:23):
How do you, how do you fix it ifyou don't have an engineering?
But then there's things where you gota prep guy who wants to become a cook
and get on the line, you know, chef,how are you gonna make that happen?
What are you gonna dowith your sous chefs?
And we go into, you know, there'sall sorts of things that it's,
it's the collaboration and the,
(29:44):
they come to us with ideas sometimesthat are better than what we could give.
I mean, that's, that's the best part.
When.
We're making them think, we'repushing them to think better.
Uh, and when they come back with,with these ideas and answers, it's,
that's what, what really makes it.
Simon (30:04):
I think that's amazing.
I think one of the things that I'vebecome really fond of, of lately is
giving people the information and thestructure to make great decisions.
Mm-hmm.
And it, and just like you said, like I'malways shocked at like, I'll, I'll have
some ideas in mind when I'm, when I'mcoaching a chef or a few years back when
(30:25):
I was overseeing multiple restaurants.
But it's always amazing to me whenyou're, when you give people the ability.
Like the sort of the, the decisionmaking matrix, what they're able to
do that like, can easily surpass whatyou've done because 'cause human nature.
Yep.
Gerald (30:46):
And if the structure's there, you know, if you got a, a great, a
great racetrack, now you could putwhatever car you want on that track.
You want a Ferrari on there?
You want a Mercedes on there?
You gave them the roads.
It's paid beautifully.
You know, it's how fast they wantto go now and you know what style
they wanna, what kind of car theywant to get in and take that ride.
Simon (31:09):
Yeah.
Uh, it, it's funny, I, I. You talk to,you talk to some younger chefs nowadays,
and they, they, they, they use theword corporate, like it's a bad thing.
And they, you start talking aboutstructure and they're like, oh, I don't
want that to hinder my creativity.
And I'm like, man, you, you'relooking at it all wrong.
Gerald (31:32):
You know?
It's very, very true.
I've come across many interviewswhen I could sense that, um, you
know, first thing they ask is howmuch creativity you have on the menu.
And it's like, well.
We can get to that, but you wantthe honest, you know, it depends.
It could be 30%, it couldbe 50%, it could be 10%.
It all depends on where we feel you'reat and if you know our systems and
(31:57):
how the restaurant is operating whileyou're at the helm, yada, yada, yada.
You know, it's not just the menu.
Right.
You know, we're we truly hold ourchefs partic and GMs accountable,
you know, for their specificareas, front and back of the house.
Not just, you know, slice and indictingand cooking, growing your team.
(32:19):
Have you, if you're a chef there for twoyears, three years, how many cooks or
chefs have you passed on to us to move on?
You know, or wanna promote things.
Things that are, you know,are important these days.
Not saying running day to day isimportant, but the bigger, the
bigger picture is building thatnext, the next group of leaders.
Simon (32:42):
Yeah.
Uh.
It's always fascinating to me whenpeople, you know, I think this happens
through, through pop culture and media,like the, the view of chef gets fairly
narrow and what they really are sayingis Cook, but everybody thinks chef.
Mm-hmm.
If, if that makes sense.
Alright.
(33:02):
And so I, I love it.
I love it when I'm able to talk topeople and, and start to explain to them.
They're like, well thenwhat's the difference?
And it's like, man, if you, ifyou are asking that question, you,
you're, you're in for a world of hurt.
'cause this is, this is gonna like, comeheavy on the top of your head, you know?
Um, but I just, I love thatconversation because it's like.
(33:24):
There people, people are like,people are like, oh, you know what?
It's, it's about the cooking.
I'm like, cooking ends up being20% of what we do, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, and, and even the crecreative aspects, right?
Like for me, consistency isalways gonna be more important
to me than creativity, right?
Because a hundred percent, if you'renot consistent, you don't get the
(33:48):
opportunity and the privilege to create.
There's just no two ways about it.
Gerald (33:52):
And that's, that's a. Part where I think still some of the
younger, inexperienced cooks orchefs, uh, I'll never forget, one
of the things was told to me isthe hardest thing in the business.
Consistency.
And they, they also saidkey success is consistency.
And when you have chefs that want tobe creative, it's cool to change menus.
(34:15):
You know, I've done it week by week,day by day, but at some point it's, uh.
It's very hard to get your team andstaff, I guess well trained because
it's just, when it changes so much, sofast, it's very hard to keep systems in
place to allow 'em to like teach it tosomeone else if you weren't there and
(34:40):
the machine would only run if you'rethere 'cause you're the creative one and
now you gotta watch them and show them.
But then.
You change the menu a weeklater, a system, and now you're
like, well, I showed you that.
And you know, like the cook's like, Idon't really remember because it was,
you know, two weeks ago, you know?
Yep.
It doesn't really stick.
(35:00):
So it's something that, uh, thework consistency is very powerful in
the, in this, uh, in this industry.
Simon (35:10):
Yeah.
Gerald (35:11):
The hardest thing to do.
Simon (35:13):
I, I agree.
You know, it's funny, I, I was talkingwith a chef recently and I said,
so what do you most wanna improve?
Right?
Like, you now you nowhave a coach right in me.
You now have an advisorwith a lot of experience.
What do you wanna work on?
'cause I can look at your kitchenand probably find five to 10 things.
Mm-hmm.
I said, what do you wanna work on?
(35:34):
And he said, consistency.
And I said.
How about if we worked on quality?
What do you, what do you think about that?
He is like, well, Ithink the quality's good.
And I was like, so is good.
Your measure of the top.
And so we, that kind of led usinto a, a long conversation,
but, uh, it's an interesting.
(35:55):
I guess it's an interesting dialoguefor me to, to go down that road and
say, where, what are you gonna push on?
Are you gonna push on quality?
Are you gonna push on consistency?
Because for me, I think if you pushon quality every day and making
sure that that's the best it can beand are consistent in your actions,
consistency comes right along.
Gerald (36:14):
Mm-hmm.
Very true,
Simon (36:16):
very true.
Um, but, uh, I, I love, I love talking topeople who understand like the value of
consistency and, and the business aspect.
Um, all right.
I gotta ask, so like, what's yourfavorite part about this job?
'cause this is, uh, this is a
Gerald (36:34):
pretty special thing that you got.
Um, yeah, for me it's easy.
I mean, I get that question asked a lot.
Uh, I love the, the travel of.
I love the traveling part, andparticularly when I go into each
operation is talking to the teamsand meeting, you know, the employees
because not being, there's some times Iwouldn't get to a restaurant in years.
(36:59):
Um, right.
There's times when I'm in arestaurant, probably twice a month.
Um, so when I get to travel and getto talk to the teams and kind of.
Usually the, the leaders, I bring themout, you know, I take them outside of
the restaurant and, you know, get 'emout of the, the restaurant and kind of
(37:21):
shoot the shit with 'em and, you know,be normal, you know, not all the bosses
here, you know, we gotta play nice,you know, I'll, we'll get a beer and
just, I like to have 'em relax and, youknow, see what, what they've been doing,
what's going on, uh, what's the foodscene around where they're at, you know?
Kinda relevant to the industry,but not completely cut off.
(37:42):
Um, and that, you know, to show that,uh, you know, I'm around but not around,
you know, giving 'em support and, and thecamaraderie of I'm here and I, and it's,
I love taking both front and back GM chefor Exec Sue and a GM, you know, whatever.
But I always like to do the combinationof the two, having a front and a back.
(38:06):
Um.
And it, and it shows, uh, well,one, it gives 'cause we're not
there every day to see what kind ofrelationship's happening front and back.
Right, right.
Um, but two, also to make sure,like whatever I say in the back, the
front knows, or the front, whateverI say in the front, the back know,
you know, there's no, it's oneteam, one dream kind of mentality.
(38:27):
Awesome, awesome.
Um,
Simon (38:31):
I think for me, I, I love that kind of thing because.
It always reaffirms somethingthat I've said for years, and
that is cooks are cooks man.
Right?
Like, I
Gerald (38:42):
just love it.
Introverts, cooks are introvertsusually like, oh, they think totally
run, you know, it, uh, they allhate the front of the house, so
the front hates the, you know, youhear these stories, but so funny.
Simon (38:57):
But it's, it's so funny.
It's so fun to see like differenthow, like kitchens or kitchens, right?
You just start to hear the stories andthey just, I'm sure that you see it
even more having a large company, havingbeen a part of a seven unit company.
It's like the, the, the humandynamic lessons to be learned.
(39:19):
They repeat themselves.
Gerald (39:23):
Yeah.
It's uh.
There's still, uh, I mean, you'realways gonna have those, the few
that are, you know, that's just howthey are and they'll never change.
Um, they don't vocalize it, youknow, to say like poison the water
or say, you know, around them.
But you can tell, uh, theykeep it to themselves.
(39:45):
They'll say things under theirbreath, but nothing where like.
Becomes an issue for us or that's good,we actually, or sometimes we'll do,
you know, we'll do trainings withinthe restaurant front and back and
we'll purposely pick, you know, thoseindividuals and like pair them up with
each other so they're like uncomfortable.
(40:05):
Um, but then after, you know, a 30 minuteseminar with us, they're like completely
comfortable and best friends with theperson they thought they hated, you know?
Simon (40:15):
That's awesome.
Uh, yeah, I, I mean, I thinkit goes back to like we, we are
more alike than we are different.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, well, awesome.
Um, I can't tell you how much I appreciateyou coming to play with me today.
Hanging out my littlesandbox of the world.
Gerald (40:35):
Wow.
Listen, I'm sorry I was, I was late.
I totally, uh, spaced out there,but I appreciate you having me on.
Um, it's always good to hear.
Actually having myself think back on,on the olden days, you know, brings
back, brings back great memories.
Yeah.
I mean,
Simon (40:54):
I,
Gerald (40:55):
go ahead.
Go ahead.
No, I was gonna say I wouldn't changeit for any, and everyone's like, you
know, what would you have done ifyou weren't doing what you're doing?
And I always answer it pretty quick.
'cause I love magic.
I'm like, oh, I'll be a, Iwould've been a magician, you know?
But that's not, you know, that's fantasy.
It's not real to me.
But I don't think I. I wouldenjoy doing anything else.
(41:16):
Uh, you know, doing what I do.
Yeah.
Or being in I an industry.
Simon (41:21):
Yeah.
I, I can't, I struggle,I struggle sometimes.
People ask me that questionnumerous times, you know?
And, and I, I struggle to thinkof what else I would've done.
I mean, I dropped outtacollege to do this.
I, I absolutely love it.
Yeah.
And then when I stopped workingin the restaurants, people were
like, do you think you should have.
(41:42):
Quit earlier.
I was like, no, I absolutely,like, I loved it all the way
up until I didn't, you know?
Yeah.
Um, so I, I think that, I think, I thinkif you're into a career or you're into
a, you know, a, a vocation of whateverstyle, like, as long as you're loving
it and having fun, I mean, the factthat you list fun kind of on the top
(42:06):
of the list is, uh, it makes my heart.
Gerald (42:10):
Gotta
Simon (42:10):
fun lot
Gerald (42:11):
chop.
Be gotta be fun.
I mean, if you ask anyone, Imean, I love to have a good time.
Uh, I love to laugh.
I love to make jokes.
Um, 'cause it's a stressful,it's stressful, you know,
we work against the clock.
Um, you know, it's fast paced.
It's, you gotta be focused.
But when you don't have to befocused, that's when you gotta let
(42:31):
loose and just, you know, have fununtil you're ready to get serious.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Simon (42:38):
Well, chef, uh, once again, thank you so much for coming to
play and, um, to all you out there.
Uh, thanks.
Please, uh, continue to check it outand, uh, we'll see you next time.
Gerald (42:49):
All right.
Thank you.
You've been listeningto Culinary Mechanic.
This show exists to help you leadwith more clarity, build systems
that actually work and create akitchen culture worth showing up for.
If this episode helped you moveeven one step in that direction, do
me a favor, leave a quick review.
It helps more chefs and operators stop thechaos and start leading with intention.
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