February 25, 2021 • 47 mins
In this episode of Cultivate your Culture, we are joined by Kimia Hamidi, the founder of Buyer - Negotiation as a Service for tech-focused companies. Buyer audits a company's spend and negotiates their contracts without being jerks. Kimia has been involved in a few other companies, a previous exit, and tons learned along the way. He distills practical tools for how to rebuild a team, how to identify people who fit your culture, and the difference between culture in start-ups and big companies.
Connect with Kimia on Twitter, LinkedIn, or Instagram. Check the website for his company, Buyer for more details on what Kimia does.
The host, Zoran Stojkovic believes that we are all born to flourish in work and life. Through his company, Kizo, he equips organizations and people with culture and mindset tools to reach full engagement through powerful workshops, memorable keynotes, and transformative individual consultations.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think the way that I thinkabout leading a team and shaping
the team is you want to seeyourself as an editor. And so
you know, what does an editor inchief do? They synthesize
information, they redline stuff,they cross stuff out. And they
make sure that you've, you'vekind of you need to include this
key point. And so has theoverall mission been been
(00:21):
achieved in this in this paper?
Hello, I'm your host, ZoranStojkovic, and welcome to
Cultivate your Culture. Thispodcast we'll be discussing how
leaders can build connectedhigh-performing teams and
businesses in sport usingactionable tools, evidence based
systems and simple processes.
Today on the show, we have KimiaHamidi, Kenya is the founder of
(00:48):
Buyer.co negotiation as aservice for tech focused
companies. Buyer audits acompany's spend and negotiates
their contracts without beingjerks. And Kimia is involved in
a few other companies and aprevious exit, and tons learned
along the way. Kimia, welcome tothe show, my friend,
(01:12):
Thank you so much for having me.
We we've known each other for awhile, like it
It has been a while.
Yeah, we get together often andand chat and have lunch, coffee,
whatever it is. And we've talkedabout some of these things very,
you know, very spontaneously nowwhere we're going to discuss
them in a more in a bit morestructured way, I guess.
On the record, I love it.
(01:32):
On the record. Why don't westart off by discussing how how
you define team culture? Likewhat it's a term that gets
thrown around a lot. It's very,it can be a very airy fairy, how
do you define it?
It does get thrown around a lot.
And I think nailing it down isis pretty tough. And I and I
will say my, my answer that Igive was different three years
(01:54):
ago and will likely be differenta few years into the future. And
so, you know, with that, withthat caveat said. And then my
clarifying question is, wouldyou would you want me to define
what I think of team culture asa whole? Or how I'm building the
team culture at buyer?
No, how do you define teamculture as a whole? In general,
(02:15):
we'll get into the specificslater.
Interesting. All right. So Iwould define team culture
broadly as the shared set ofbeliefs, rituals and values that
any team grows and believes inand values, again, kind of
(02:35):
reusing that word, but theshared kind of combination of
beliefs that a team leadsforward, and how they actually
execute on a mission.
values, beliefs and rituals thatare shared. And that how is a
team how that affects the team'sapproach in getting to a shared
mission?
(02:55):
Yeah, because if you're on ateam, your goal is either to
score the most points and winthe championship, or if you're
on a business team, your missionis to actually execute upon
those, those specific goals. Andso how you actually achieve
those goals, while sharing thosevalues while sharing those
rituals while sharing thosebeliefs. That is how I define
(03:15):
team culture generally.
Interesting, interesting. And sowhere like, where does that
definition come from? Is thatsomething you've learned through
experience? Is that somethingyou read in a book? Or is it
something you were taught?
That's it's...I don't think Iwas ever taught this? I think
this is probably a book thatI've read a book that I probably
picked up somewhere along theway. The whole kind of the whole
(03:39):
kind of idea of culture is howdo we how do we kind of get
somewhere together while makingsure that our values are
aligned? And so, you know, I'veI've kind of built a few
companies I've sold my last oneas, as I build buyer. being
intentional about the culture isvery, very important, even
(04:00):
though you know, we're a smallteam, but but growing fast. And
so yeah, I probably picked it upsomewhere. Seems kind of like a
textbook definition. But that'skind of how I would define
culture, broadly.
Interesting. So this gettingtogether somewhere while staying
aligned, is pretty importantbecause teams can head to a
destination and then fall apartand absolutely conflict, it
(04:23):
could be riddled with conflicts,toxic star, you know, Star
talent on a team. So that's itdefinitely is really important
to have that understanding. Andto those again, those rituals,
values and beliefs that youmentioned before, definitely
helping that. And why why is itimportant to culture, cultivate
a culture and in a business orsports team?
Oh, man, I think culture is, youknow, it's it's essentially
(04:45):
everything. It's how yourcompany interacts together. It's
what you guys think, oh, youpeople think are important as
you execute. I think withoutculture, and this is kind of
touching back to why it'simportant without culture. Yeah,
it's not fun in terms of likehow you execute. And you also
(05:07):
probably don't have a greatresult at the end. A lot of
teams that don't have a greatculture, they fall apart before
they can actually achieve thegoal. So I would kind of
generally speaking, describe itas the metaphorical glue that
holds a team together, thathelps get that team to that end
destination. I also play a lotof soccer, and I box and so
(05:29):
there's one very team focusedsport and one very
individualistic sport, eventhough a team boxing is very
much supported by kind of yourcoaching and the people that
surround you. And in bothexamples, like I've seen, teams
fall apart, because they don'thave a shared mission and a
shared vision and a shared setof values. And it can be as
(05:50):
simple as you know, the soccerplayers bickering on the field
at each other, because theymessed up. A very good
counterexample to that is if youhave a great culture, everyone
encourages each other to makesure that yes, a mistake was
made. But you guys are likeyou're aligned, positive
reinforcement, you can attackthe goal the next time and same
with business, right, like maybea deal falls through or maybe
(06:11):
someone messed up some kind ofclient communication, your if
your values are high integrity,high honesty, internal
competitiveness, which, youknow, I'm giving those
illustrations because that's howI think about the internal
culture of buyer, you will notmake that same mistake, again,
the company will be will be ableto move faster and execute more
(06:32):
effectively. And so that's why Itruly think culture is
important. There is a lot ofkind of woowoo definitions of
well, you know, everyone has tobe nice, and everyone has to be
on the same page. And I don'treally believe in that, I think
it's generally speaking, it'sgood to have some kind of
internal competition and, anddisagreement between how things
(06:53):
are done, because throughdifferent disagreement becomes
their kind of better processesare revealed. And so that's,
that's a very long answer intowhy I think culture is
incredibly important.
Oh it's a great answer. And Ilove your analogy about the
glue. Because that's very vivid,and it's those. It's that
fabric, it's that that thatthing that holds people
(07:14):
together. And, you know, you'rementioning that it's, it's
essentially the the interactionsthat people have with each
other. I mean, but isn't itdifferent? And isn't? Wouldn't
you say culture is veryimportant where there's money on
the line, there's jobs on theline, like if somebody's playing
a recreational in a recreationalsports team, versus being in a
business where there's money onthe line, if the deal falls
(07:36):
through? How does culture differin those settings?
I generally don't make thedistinction, because and this
comes back to values. And sowhether there is $400 million on
the line, or whether it's arecreational soccer team
integrity could be a core valueto your culture, right. And so
(07:57):
I'm not going to rip someoneapart on the soccer field, just
as I'm not going to rip someoneapart in the business world.
There was obviously a time and aplace for for being stern. But
just because money is involved,doesn't mean your culture should
change or degrade. It's it'skind of how I think about my
internal beliefs.
Interesting. So you saying theintegrity is there? Regardless,
(08:20):
doesn't matter what you'redoing? Doesn't matter what the
stakes are?
Yes. Yeah. You know, integrityis is an example. I think
cultures will differ acrossteams, because individuals are
different. But I guess I'm goingback on my answer a little bit.
Because if the culture isdifferent between teams, it
might be, it might be lessintense. But the kind of the
(08:42):
illustration that I'm trying togive is, my, how I try and shape
the culture around me is, isvery much intentional,
regardless of what team I'm on.
And regardless of what thestakes are.
Nice. So you, you you seeyourself as a leader in the
teams that you're on,very much, so
very much so, yeah?
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
(09:03):
And then how can culture becultivated? And who, you know,
who has to be in thoseconversations? What's the
starting place?
I will say this with the answer.
First of all, I'm not 100% Sure.
Because I think there aremultiple ways to achieve the
right outcome in terms ofcultivating culture. I think it
(09:26):
starts with a it starts with it.
And again, this word of culture,especially kind of overused in
this context, but I think itstarts starts with a shared
knowledge of transparency. Andso do you have when you're first
building the team, because Imean, in the classic kind of
startup scenario is you are oneperson and your culture is
(09:47):
essentially yourself and itdoesn't really matter that much.
But as soon as you expand toanother person, your
interactions are the kind ofdefinition of how the bedrock of
the company is being formed. Andthen when that third person
comes on, the team has expanded,some processes are going to get
thrown into the mix and thingsare gonna change. But that
(10:09):
underlying bedrock of values issuper important. So building a
great culture is, is somethingvery difficult. So I think the
best way to cultivate it is bevery intentional about what
you're trying to accomplish fromthe outset, and being very
transparent about the valuesthat you want to see throughout
your organization. That's a weakanswer. And I don't love that.
(10:29):
But that's the best answer I cangive you, because I'm learning
about this as well.
Yeah, for sure. And I appreciateyour your humbleness and saying
that there's, well, first ofall, it's multiple ways to do
it. And that you're, you're notentirely sure. Because you're
still you're still learning.
When we think about values,which you brought up a couple of
times, like integrity? Whoactually would get to pick
(10:49):
those, like, if there's aculture, if there's a startup
that's going from five to 20?
employee? Who would who wouldget to pick those values? You
know.
It starts with the leadershipteam, for sure. And so, one of
the things that that I am veryintentional about. So let me
(11:10):
back up a second, when you'recreating a team, the way you
should think about your role,and this is specifically in
relation to a leader. And thisis not my advice. By the way,
this is advice that I've pickedup through business leaders much
better than myself. But I thinkthe way that I think about
leading a team and shaping theteam is you want to see yourself
(11:30):
as an editor. And so you know,what does an editor in chief do,
they synthesize information,they read line stuff, they cross
stuff out. And they make surethat you've, you've kind of you
need to include this key point.
And so has the overall missionbeen been achieved in this in
this paper. And so it's verysimilar to when you're building
a team, your initial hires areincredibly important. Because if
(11:54):
you were being intentional aboutyour values, you have to then
say, these values have to be inthese initial hires, and then
does their input, transitionedover into the next hires, and
does their kind of do theirvalues carry over. And so the
best way I can, I can describewhere that starts with is being
(12:15):
a very intentional leader, andbeing a very intentional editor
as you grow your team. And ifyou find the values are
slipping, it's incrediblyimportant to continue to edit
your team, and make sure thatthose people are no longer on
your team. And I mean, candidly,this was a mistake I made with
my previous company is there wasa misalignment of values, and I
didn't act fast enough. And Iwill tell you, I'll never make
(12:36):
that mistake again.
Right. So you're saying, firstof all, be the editor of the
team. So understand what thevalues are. And you said, those
have to come from the leadershipgroup. And then the second thing
is being careful who you let onthe team, especially early on in
that process where the team isjust starting to grow, because
that's going to multiply acrossand you want people that are in
(12:58):
alignment with those values, andthat actually lived them. And
then, so what I'm readingbetween the lines is one of the
best defenses against the toxicculture is who you let in.
Absolutely, I think that's avery great way of simply putting
it you know, I say it startswith leadership, but people have
(13:19):
to internalize these values, andyou shouldn't hire someone who
superficially internalizes thesevalues. And then, you know,
later down the line, you realizethat, oh, wow, they, they don't
align with our culture at all.
They don't believe in integrity,they kind of subvert things. And
they're not truly honest abouthow the, how their progress is
coming about. And so while itstarts with leadership, like
these are, these arecharacteristics that your team
(13:42):
should should valueindependently. And your job
should be, how do I bring theseto the surface as I interview
people? And how do I make surethat they are not just saying
it, and they actually believethis as they come on board? So
yes, absolutely. You know, editthe team and make sure that, you
know, it's it's as you so simplyput, they start with these
(14:04):
beliefs in the first place.
Yeah, that's I do think that'smassive. And, and then they say,
if you can't change the people,change the people. [LAUGHTER]
I love, I love I'm stealingthat. [LAUGHTER]
Oh, 100 100 words that I mean,that's, that's very in line with
being an editor of the team. Youneed to constantly edit to make
(14:27):
sure you're going in the rightdirection, effectively
And coaching, right coaching onteams has become has become
really, has become something alot of companies do, in that
they won't just fire somebodywho doesn't align with something
slightly. They'll try to coachthem through it and yeah, and
(14:47):
help them out and that's... Ithink that's a better way to
save, save money in the long runas well, because onboarding and
turnover are devastating.
devastating. Yeah. Can beOh, for sure. For sure. I think
the easy way around that is hireslow. Make sure who's coming in
your team in the first place isnot someone that you'll have to
let go. The caveat there is aneasy milestone is zero to 1
million and 1 million to 10million in terms of revenue. And
(15:09):
so the people who got you fromzero to 1 million are not
necessarily the people who getyou from 1 million to 10
million. Does that mean youshould let them go? No,
absolutely not. They should befocused on you know, creating
new products or doing otherproductive things. And so when I
say edit the team, I don't meanWell, thanks for your work,
goodbye. It like, as long asthey internalize those values? I
(15:32):
think there's, there's kind of aplace and I'm not saying
turnover your workforce everyevery mile, like revenue
milestone, but, yes.
But you may have to, is whatyou're saying. And the culture
is going to change as themission of the company changes
as the targets change aspressure builds up, and there's
going to be people that maybeeven with coaching can't, can't
(15:54):
handle that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and as a leader, helpingthose people move along to
better opportunities.
Totally, no, I completely agree.
Um, there's someone who I holdin great, very high esteem is
Patti McCord of Netflix. And herwhole thing was, how do we make
Netflix a great place to befrom. And I love that. Because
(16:15):
if you have an awesome companywith an awesome culture, who
solves very hard problems, andthen when the time comes that
you have to edit your team, andthere's no longer a good spot
for that person on the team, youhelp them find a great
transition role where they cango help another company succeed,
and your company becomes thatawesome place to be from. And so
(16:37):
like anyone who's ex-Netflix,ex-Google, ew-Facebook, like,
those are all awesome companiesto be from. So as a leader, I
think it's important to beintentional about how to make
your company a great place to befrom and, you know, that remains
to be seen with buyer, but Iwould love to achieve that in
any capacity.
Yeah. And that's, I guess whatthat means is having that having
(16:59):
cultivated that culture that'spowerful, and that people love
to talk about and talk about ina high regard. And in a
leadership group that peoplefelt was transparent, acted with
integrity cared about them. Iguess that's a piece that I love
that make it you know, making acompany, great company and be
from becauseThe caveat, there is. Oh, sorry,
No, I was just gonna say thecaveat there is your company has
(17:20):
to be well respected. Because ifyou're if you're Acme & co.
chemical consulting, or youknow, whatever, some ABC lawyers
& co., you could be, you couldbe a great company. But the
optics of that are very bad. Andso I think this works well in
tech. And so you, you also needto be solving an interesting
problem. And reinventing thewheel in a sense. Yep. So keep
(17:40):
that in mind, yeah.
How have you helped shape teamcultures? What's, you know, what
have you actually done toinfluence that process?
It's tough on a small team tosay, these are the specific
activities I've done, like, youknow, team site paying for
lunches, like, I think thatstuff is all kind of
(18:01):
superficial, I think the bestthing that I've done is be very
intentional about who I broughton the team, and make sure that
their values align with mine.
And so as the team grows, youknow, to touch back to that
editor example. How do I makesure that we are growing with
the right people in the rightrole, with the right values? And
(18:22):
I think that's probably the bestthing I can point to that I've
done to help grow the team. Andjust make sure we're mission
driven and mission aligned.
Right people, right value, rightrole.
And exactly.
And you're saying the hiringprocess is has been paramount
for you shaping...
Absolutely, absolutely. I am a,I'm a proponent. I'm a proponent
(18:47):
of hiring slow and it justworked out that our latest hire
came on board very quickly, abecause the pressure was Big B
because she is an absoluteRockstar. And she's proving that
again. And so I think we gotLucky with her. But I will say
like, I think hiring slow andmaking sure that you have the
time to actually find the rightcandidate is incredibly
(19:09):
important to making this work.
Because if your whole company isfalling apart, and you need an
actual person to feel some kindof requirement, and you say,
Well, you know, they're goodenough, and we'll figure it out
later. That is horrible forcultivating a great culture. And
so it's super important and itis this balancing act. And so
being prepared is probably thekey to unlocking this. I mean,
(19:30):
Airbnb is notoriously, I guessfamous or infamous for this,
depending on, you know, who'stelling the story, but they took
six months to to hire theirfirst employee, and they
described it as building a planeas you're falling off the cliff,
and the floor is approachingvery quickly. And so do you have
the time and the bandwidth andthe internal patience and
(19:55):
internal grit to soldier onwithout saying, Well, you know,
we'll hire this person, and thenwe'll fire them later and or
they might not be the greatestfit, but then they end up
staying, and then they end uperoding your company's values,
which I think is incrediblydangerous. So these are all
lessons that I try andinternalize as, as we build our
own internal team.
(20:16):
Wow, that's huge. They took sixmonths?
I think so you'd have to lookthat up. But yeah, I know. I
know. Yeah. It's a wild. It'swild
Their, yeah. Their storiy isquite fascinating.
It's incredible.
And these these cultures asthey're being shaped, there's,
there's you know examples ofproductive or helpful behaviors.
(20:38):
And there's toxic ones, what doyou think is toxic for team
culture? And how have you dealtwith those people or behaviors
in the past?
Oh, that's a that's a bigquestion. The former, the former
answers is relativelystraightforward. The behaviors I
think, are toxic are kind of theblame game and trust, and lack
(21:02):
of integrity within anorganization. Because I think
everything starts with if youare all on the same team, and on
the same side, it's not aboutshe's not on my team. He's on my
team. It's about we're all onthe same team. So if the sales
team is not executing on theirgoals, it's not a question of
(21:23):
the do a better job to executeon these on these targets. It's
what can I do to enable thesales team to execute more
effectively on their goals? Isit better sales material? Is it
you know, more bandwidth? Is itmore the top of funnel leads?
It's it's a question of sharedobjectives, versus Why are there
not more leads? What can likeit, blaming them and not
(21:47):
executing on something? The thesecond part of your question is,
how have I dealt with thatpoorly in the beginning of my
entrepreneurial career? I thinkI was too quick. I was too quick
to hire. And I lookedsuperficially in terms of who
could fill this problem rollright now. versus how can I
(22:10):
actually build people that wantto go far because it's the thing
that I try and internalize is,you know, if you want to go
fast, go alone, if you want togo far go together. But if you
take a dagger to the back alongthe journey, and they steal your
lunch, that's never ideal. No, Ithink I think making being very
intentional about the team earlyon is the best thing you can do
(22:32):
to deal with toxic culture andjust kind of continually being
aware of it as you go.
Is there a story that comes tomind with how?
Yes, but I will not say. I can'tI can't say I can't say over the
podcast.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Neat. I mean,bBcause I don't want to step on.
I don't want to step on anytoes.
No, no, no, totally, completely,completely okay. And I think
what you're mentioning around,you know, the blame game, like
(22:56):
blaming others, trust issues,lack of integrity, that
misalignment and lack of synergywithin the team and not being
aligned with the values. Thoseare, those are massive. And
that's what I keep hearing overand over, in my, in my
interviews on this podcast is,you know, trust trust is
massive, and transparency, likethose are two words coming up
(23:19):
over and over and over and overagain. And transparency really
speaks to communication, doesn'tit?
Absolutely.
Speaks to, right? Clarity?
Yeah, no, sorry. Continue. Yeah,absolutely. Interesting. Because
I think this is such an obviousstatement. It's, you know, the
statement of, well, you shouldtrust each other, it's like,
obviously, or it's, you shouldact with integrity. It's like,
(23:41):
of course, but I think there's avery big difference between
understanding those andinternalizing those. And I don't
think enough people trulyinternalize those, those kind of
values and bring those to thecore of the team. And I think
it's, it's often overlooked. Andso I'm, I try and, and I'm not,
(24:02):
I'm not perfect, obviously, Imake these mistakes sometimes.
But I try and internalize these,these lessons and kind of build
the people around me becauseit's so easy to let it slip and
say, well, they're so good atthis. Like they're the asshole
genius, right? They're the bestcoder I've ever seen. But
they're kind of a douche. Andit's like, well, is there a is
(24:22):
the boundary of letting thesuperstar on your team worth it?
Sometimes, yes, sometimes, yes.
Oftentimes, not necessarily.
Yeah, star star performers onteams can be really, really
tough to deal with, especiallyif they're used to being the
best on the team that they'vebeen on. And they know they have
the talent and the skill sets toreally crush it. And that and
(24:44):
they know they're valuable tothe team. They know they're an
asset. So they know that theycan probably get away with more
things and other people, whichcan be really tricky for the
leadership group. And so havingdouble standards is never never
really ideal in my view. And Ithink that having that really,
(25:04):
really goes back to values andthe behaviors that we're talking
about, like, are you behaviorsaligned with the values of the
company. And we don't do thathere. Here's how we do things
here. And Netflix, which youmentioned, has as a culture
deck.
Great, great read. Post it inthe show notes. That's a that's
an awesome read.
You know, a lot of times, whatI've noticed is we talk about
(25:25):
culture, and it's this airy,fairy intangible thing that
people know is important. Butthen we can't put a pin on it.
So how can leaders measure andassess team culture? Like what
are actual tangible ways tomeasure it?
(25:46):
I don't have a great answer foryou. Unfortunately, measuring
culture is incredibly hard,because the way I kind of
defined culture in the beginningis a shared set of rituals and
beliefs and values that eachmember of your team internalize
and share collectively. I thinkthere are certain behaviors that
you can look out for, but I, Idon't have a great answer for
(26:10):
how to measure it. Because, youknow, it's measuring it implies
that there's a there's anoutcome that is achieved. And
how do you measure integrity?
Well, the the kind of theinverse of that is like, bad
things have happened, becausepeople have been, have acted
with not high integrity. Andthat's something that you want
(26:32):
to avoid completely. And so,again, yeah, I guess I wish I
had a better answer for you. ButI don't, that's just kind of how
I think about it. And it's,it's, it's very tough to
measure. But I think again, itcomes back to bringing on people
that you can go far together,instead of saying, well, your,
your honesty was seven out of10. This month, and therefore
(26:53):
that's not good enough, andwe're gonna have to let you go.
I think that's a you know,that's a very over illustrated
example. But I don't reallythink about measuring culture, I
think it's, it's kind ofsomething that is always running
within the company. And it'ssomething that you have to
continually encourage people to,to share. So communication is a
(27:14):
great example of communicationand transparency is say, you
know, with remote work, it'seven more important to over
communicate in that sense. Andso, are we, are you sharing
specific wins with the entireteam? Or are you sharing errors
with just the management team,right. And that is something
that I would actively encouragemy team to share within with
(27:37):
each other. But it's, it's toughto measure. And so I think just
being a constant champion, andpromoter of these are the values
and these are the things thatwe're going to share internally.
This is how we're going tooperate going forward. Make sure
that you kind of execute onthese things together is is the
best way that I would say how wewould measure it. But again,
(28:00):
measuring isn't isn't kind ofeffective. But it's, it's tough
for me to define. I hope thatkind of answers the question.
It does. It does. And I think itgets us to a good point. I mean,
what comes up for me is a partof it is subjective. And part of
it, I think could be measuredobjectively, I think a piece of
it is...a piece of it would haveto be asking each member of the
team (28:23):
"What is the purpose? Like what's the mission of this
company?" And seeing how, whatpercentage of the match it is to
what the actual written downmission of the company is? Like,
what are the values of thecompany? Oh, I didn't know we
have values? Right? So takingthat as a measure, that would be
a good indicator of, oh, peoplearen't clear on what the culture
(28:44):
is. And therefore they're likelynot acting in accordance with
they might be right, thatclarity is the first place to
start, isn't it? We're talkingabout communication earlier,
like, What do I have to do? Whatdo I not do? I think a piece of
it is being in an office beingin seeing those seeing a
meeting, like a like a callonline or a meeting in person,
(29:07):
you can see you can pick up on alot of information from people.
Yeah. And, you know, do peoplehave a stake in? Like, what's in
it for them for working for thatcompany? I mean, how is that
helping get them towards their,their goals? And I think that's
a piece of the culture.
Absolutely.
And I think, you know,vulnerability is massive, and
I'm not sure how to measurethat. But I think knowing how to
(29:32):
create situations where there'spsychological safety, and by
psychological safety, I mean,are people open and vulnerable
to share and take risks and messup in front of their peers and
teammates, I guess? Yeah. So Ithink that sense of openness and
vulnerability is huge. And, andso so that's, maybe that's a
(29:53):
piece of it. And you know, like,you're on a call and you know,
he calls about the start you'rewaiting for everybody and like
five people aren't talking. Thatmight be an indicator that
something's, something's off.
Something's off. And a call isbuzzing. If people are chatting,
hey, I was week, you know,that's you can tell from some of
those things. What do you think?
Yeah, no, I, I like the valueassessment. What do you think
(30:18):
our values are versus what ouractual values are, because I
think that's a quantitative wayof measuring what the actual
outcome is. But I think I thinkyou're right, there's also an
implicit and implicit part ofit, where some of it is, is
internalized and very difficultto measure. The other thing that
I think is is important to noteis, there is a very real element
(30:38):
of slowing down your company, tomake sure that everyone is on
the same page with culture,because it's very easy to bring
people on and execute quickly,and say, This is what we're
actually moving towards, let'sget to the result. And there's a
very fine balance between speedof execution and implementing
(31:00):
processes. And that's a constantbattle that, that I face,
because the last thing I want todo is slow down my team, because
you know, we're a small, fastmoving company, and it, it pays
to be nimble, but also, are weare we executing quickly with
those shared beliefs, and whilethe culture stays intact, and
it's easy when you're a smallcompany, very difficult when
(31:21):
you're a big company?
Oh, man, you, you keep sayingthis. It's a gem. It's an
absolute gem, what you're sayinghere with not going too fast,
but also not going too slow. SoI think sometimes, leaders try
to build this tower before theybuilt the foundation, and then
the tower just ends up fallingover. Total foundation really is
(31:42):
those, like, when you're in thisspace, when you're in this
environment, when you're workingfor our company, company? Here's
what you've agreed to. And whenyou don't agree to this, here's
how somebody's going to call youout. as things change, as some
of those values become moreclarified, different maybe
(32:02):
really waiting for people to andjust keeping reminding people
about those. And I think that'smassive.
No, I agree. I think it's, Ithink there's definitely and,
and this is something that I dowith all my own team is anyone
who is going to be working withthat person that we are looking
to hire, they always have a say,in whether or not they want this
(32:26):
person on the team. Because a Ithink it creates transparency.
And be it's if I miss somethingin terms of a value fit or a
cultural fit, and they pick itup, and the second line of
defense. And so they can say,well, like their answer around
(32:47):
this scenario. It was kind oflacking in integrity. And I
think that's something to note.
I was like, wow, I totallymissed that. I think that's,
that's so interesting. And sogiving people a say, is a way
that we promote transparencyinternally. Again, it gets quite
tough if you're joining 1000person team, this works for
small companies, but you cansilo that out, and I think it's
important.
(33:07):
Well, I mean, yeah, if you're,if you're using Agile, to manage
your team, you have these, youknow, teams of up to eight
people. So if you're hiring fora position within that team,
maybe the other six or sevenpeople, you know, in this and
it's a that's a really great wayto do it. I know the the
Canadian snowbirds are like thefighting the jet flight Yeah,
(33:28):
flying jet formation. That's howthey onboard new members.
That's great. I love that.
They'll have somebody come totraining camp. Yeah, everybody
gets to say, and if one persondoesn't like that person, for
whatever reason, they don't makethe team. And that's it.
Yeah, and it's and it's tough tobecause you have to, you have to
kind of appeal to everyone,which is which is difficult. But
(33:49):
that's why it comes back tothere's there's an element of
danger here where if someoneexisting on the team has a
fragile ego, and they challengeand this new person challenges
their ego ineffective way, theycould speak out against it. And
so again, this this circles backto how do you create the initial
(34:09):
team, so that they welcome achallenge, and they welcome
difference of thought, becausethat should be incredibly
important. So when that newperson comes on, and challenges
your beliefs that might actuallybe for the better. And so, what
you want to watch out for isshared values with there's an
actual quote that I'm going tobutcher here, but it's, you
(34:30):
know, strongly held opinions.
It's strong, strong opinionsloosely held, which is if
someone comes in with a betterway of doing things, that's
great if they come in with anentirely different set of
values, not so great. And sounderstanding and identifying
that is very important as yougrow.
No, I think that's powerfulbecause you're that's ultimately
(34:51):
the people that are going to beworking with that person. Yes,
the egos egos can get in the waypeople of course where do you
work in the company, you canpotentially feel threatened.
Yep, right for their positionfor whatever, like, for whatever
reason. And so it's important tokeep that in mind as well. kimia
What is cultivating your culturemean to you? What does that
phrase mean to you?
(35:12):
What does cultivating culturemean to me? I think it, if I
were to boil it down, I wouldsay cultivating my culture means
setting the standard as thecompany grows. And so as we
enter, again, this comes, Ibrought it up a few times, but
it comes back to editing theteam. And so, cult, like,
(35:33):
cultivating is another word formaking sure everything is
aligned and growing properly.
And so as I build out the teamaround me, how do I make sure
that we are continually on thesame page, we are operating
efficiently. And effectively, wehave the same shared set of
values, and we can execute onour mission, because we are here
(35:55):
to accomplish something at theend of the day, and that is to
grow the business. And so ifwe're all here to hang out,
that's more of a club. We're notin a club. And so that's how I
would I would define cultivatinga culture is, is setting the
pace, setting the tone, settingthe values and making sure that
everyone is on the same page.
Oh, I love that setting thestandard, setting the pace,
(36:17):
making sure everybody's on thesame page and aligned and. Man
that you there's a lot of gemsin that and what you just
[LAUGHTER].
Man I think you give me a lot ofcredit, but I appreciate that.
It's it's really good.
Definitely. Really, really good.
I mean, when I think of. When Ithink of online companies versus
in person, companies, andculture cultivation...
Well every company is kind ofonline right now.
(36:39):
Well, yeah, right now, yeah. Alot of companies are on online
culture, cultivation is a littlebit different. like where do you
think that differs for in personversus online companies and
teams?
That's a good question. I thinkonline teams have an extra
element of force that they haveto apply to the culture. And
(37:00):
little things like a greatexample of this is I was kind of
heads down working, incrediblybusy. And Jay, you, my product,
and data manager said, hey, it'sit's one of our employees,
birthdays, can I expense cookiesto be delivered to her place?
Just as a as a kind of, youknow, welcome to the team, we're
(37:22):
excited to have you like, you'vebeen great so far. And I love
that. And like, it's little,little stuff like that, where
you would you know, you wouldbring someone coffee in the
morning, you can't do that anylonger. But the kind of the
internet world is, is lesschallenging than you think. But
it does require an extra bit offorce. And so how do you go out
(37:43):
of your way to have morning andevening syncs? Or if that's too
much, how do you actually makesure you're on the same page and
just connecting, because I thinkthat often gets overlooked in
person, you know, you see youroffice mates and you're there.
And you know, you can kind ofhave a good time and you can
chat. But there is a level ofdissociation, with an internet
business where it's very easy towake up, execute your tasks, and
(38:04):
then sign off. And I think itcan be dangerous, if you're not
intentional about making surepeople are valued, making sure
that they're a part of yourteam. And I, as a total aside,
in a business context, I thinkthere's going to be very big
businesses built around makingsure your internet company
culture is aligned. And here areall the different things that
you can do to include people.
And so again, a very, very longwinded way of saying it's
(38:27):
difficult online, so be moreattentive about it.
And that's the the syncs thatyou're talking about. You mean,
do you mean like campfireconversations? Like, were you
just chatting about whatever? Ordo you mean, like actual check
ins to talk about the tasks ofthe day?
I do a combination of both? AndI there's no, I don't think
(38:48):
there's one right answer. Buttypically, what we'll do is
we'll start off with a morningsync, where it's the it's kind
of each core team. And so, youknow, start off with casual
conversation. How was weekend?
How was your night? Like, whatdid you get up to? And I think
it's important to have anelement of that in every
meeting. And I actually thinkthere was a paper written that
might not have been a paper, butit might have been kind of an
(39:10):
informal study that teams thathave five to 10 minutes of just
chat before the meeting actuallybegins. they accomplish way
more, and they are much moretransparent. I'll try and dig up
that that paper for the shownotes for you, and for the
listeners. But I always try andfoster that that kind of
openness and casualness itbefore we dive into the test. So
(39:31):
we'll start with that. And thenwe'll dive into kind of the run
through of the day. And then atthe end of the day, depending on
how busy the day is, ordepending on how the day is
unfolding. We'll have an end ofday sync. And again, how was
your day What happened? anychallenges, anything that anyone
else can help with? And then wedo kind of a final wrap up. It's
not always necessary, but Ithink it's important especially,
(39:51):
you know, Internet companies, wetry and always do video, because
there is you know, you lose theface to face ness online. And so
I I think it's extra important.
That's massive. I've definitelyheard about that. I've heard
about that paper. So if youcould send that along, that
would be really awesome. AndI'll put it in the show notes
that that makes sense. Becausewhat one of the one of the
(40:11):
frameworks on Team culture, itsays that we have task cohesion
and social cohesion. And taskcohesion is how aligned Are you
on the task? Do you understandwhat your role is? What's your
responsibility? Do you see yourimpact on it? And then social
cohesion is, is this other partthat you talked about the five
to 10 minute chats before theactual meeting starts? So it it
(40:34):
and that is really important aswell, in enhancing team
performance? No, I really agree.
It makes sense. You, you bondbefore you go into battle, and
then you battle well togetherlike that. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Is there a book or resource thathas shaped your understanding of
culture that you'd suggestKimia?
(40:55):
You know, prior to this podcast,I was brushing up on on what i
what i thought i would bring interms of resources or books.
There's a great paper, it's moreof an essay, actually by Steve
Newcomb. It's called hire likeif you google Angellist radio
(41:16):
hiring, and hiring andmanagement. He was the person
who built it built a companycalled Power Set that was bought
by Microsoft and turned intoBing. And well being is, you
know, a shadow of what Googleis. A lot of people use it. And
he has some very interestingthoughts. The paper is called co
creation, by the way. That is avery, very interesting,
(41:40):
interesting paper. You know, Isay paper loosely, it's more of
a long essay. The other thingthat I think is interesting is
there's this company calledsnowflake, and their CEO,
released this great blog postthat I love. It's very intense,
and it's not for everyone. Butthe core takeaway of that blog
post is basically, if youimagine like water rushing
(42:04):
across, and you push it througha very tight hole, it becomes
very pressurized. So if youreduce the aperture of a kind of
a lens or have a kind of surfacearea, everything speeds up. And
his whole thing was how do youreduce the slack in an
organization to speed everythingup, while making sure that
(42:24):
everyone is aligned? The otherone I really like is the we
referenced this earlier, but theNetflix culture Deck, the making
sure Netflix is a great place tobe from, I think, is it Patty
McCord, Patti McCormick. Think,it's Patti McCord. I think I
said Patty McCormack before, butshe's awesome. She has a really,
really great and interestingtake on culture. And I think she
(42:45):
must have written a book by now.
But I listened to a podcast onthat. So it's little bits of
information that I've used toassemble My own view of culture.
And like I said, three yearsago, my answer would be very
different. In another threeyears, it will probably be
different again, so we'll haveto chat that. But I think those
are interesting resources.
Great, thank you for sharingthose, you know, what's one
practical tool leaders can usetomorrow to cultivate the
(43:08):
culture of their team?
I have a bit of a differentanswer. I think the tool is
zoom, and notes. And you shouldschedule an interview with as
many people on your directreports as possible or on your
team and have a have a chat withthem about the shared values of
your team record that, put thatinto a shared deck and review it
(43:30):
with everyone. That is probablythe most practical thing you can
do.
Wow, that is that is verypractical zoom, record some
notes. ask people what like,what do you think? What's this
team about? What makes usspecial? and excellent? What's,
what are our values? What's ourmission vision? And then but
And then summarize thatThat would definitely help you
cultivate your culture.
Yes, yeah. It just helps peopleget aligned. I think if you have
(43:53):
a view of how things are going,there is very likely alternative
answers. And what you think andwhat other people think are
often not on the same page,especially in an internet
business. And so making surethat you are on the same page,
taking out a day, you might fallbehind on your tasks. But if
your team is aligned, you willgo much farther together.
It's worth it. And then sharingthat with them.
(44:15):
Exactly. Yeah.
Neat. So maybe the last thinghere is tell me about buyer.
Tell me what you're up to andwhere they can find you.
Yeah, absolutely. So buyer isnegotiation as a service for
tech focused companies. And whatwe do is, we are essentially an
on demand procurement team forbusinesses we come in, we audit,
(44:37):
every vendor spend line itemthat a company is paying for,
and make sure that they aren'twasting money. We have all these
benchmarks on what companiesshould be paying and what they
are potentially paying. And soyou know, a great example is how
do we come in, you're paying for300 tools to run your business.
(44:57):
When you initially bought thosetools. How do you know that
Salesforce tableau, NetSuitethese enterprise tools that
probably cost 10s of 1000s, ifnot hundreds of 1000s of
dollars, how do you know thatyou're getting the best price?
So we come in we renegotiatethose contracts to make sure
that a company is saving moneyacross the board and buying and
spending responsibly. Thewebsite is www.buyer.co. You can
(45:20):
find me on Twitter at hkamia. orshoot me an email at
kimia@buyer.co.
amazing, my friend. It was greattalking to you. Let's
Yeah it a pleasureCuz I could talk to you for
hours and as always the dynamic,high energy conversation and so
thanks for taking the time totalk to us today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. It'sbeen a lot. It's been a lot of
fun.
(45:44):
Hey, thanks for tuning intoCultivate your Culture. Rate and
review our podcast on iTunes.
Any websites and resourcesmentioned in the podcast as well
as the guests information can befound on the show
www.kizo.ca/podcast. Here's asneak peek of what's coming up
in our episode next week.
(46:08):
You know, a lot of our models onleadership then suggest that
creating an optimal culture isabout prioritizing both which is
truly very difficult.
Prioritizing both relationshipsand results and performance. But
understanding that therelationships need to be in
service of creating optimalperformance individually and
(46:28):
collectively. Not just we havegood relationships we get along
we're friends, we hang out weknow things about each other.
But that we know the things weneed to know we have the dynamic
on our team that supports us inbeing able to do the things that
we want or need to do. And soit's really about starting there
(46:49):
on looking at the environmentand trying to cultivate an
environment that is going tosupport creating this culture.
I think the way that I thinkabout leading a team and shaping
the team is you want to seeyourself as an editor. And so
you know, what does an editor inchief do? They synthesize
information, they redline stuff,they cross stuff out. And they
make sure that you've, you'vekind of you need to include this
key point. And so has theoverall mission been been
(00:21):
achieved in this in this paper?
Hello, I'm your host, ZoranStojkovic, and welcome to
Cultivate your Culture. Thispodcast we'll be discussing how
leaders can build connectedhigh-performing teams and
businesses in sport usingactionable tools, evidence based
systems and simple processes.
Today on the show, we have KimiaHamidi, Kenya is the founder of
(00:48):
Buyer.co negotiation as aservice for tech focused
companies. Buyer audits acompany's spend and negotiates
their contracts without beingjerks. And Kimia is involved in
a few other companies and aprevious exit, and tons learned
along the way. Kimia, welcome tothe show, my friend,
(01:12):
Thank you so much for having me.
We we've known each other for awhile, like it
It has been a while.
Yeah, we get together often andand chat and have lunch, coffee,
whatever it is. And we've talkedabout some of these things very,
you know, very spontaneously nowwhere we're going to discuss
them in a more in a bit morestructured way, I guess.
On the record, I love it.
(01:32):
On the record. Why don't westart off by discussing how how
you define team culture? Likewhat it's a term that gets
thrown around a lot. It's very,it can be a very airy fairy, how
do you define it?
It does get thrown around a lot.
And I think nailing it down isis pretty tough. And I and I
will say my, my answer that Igive was different three years
(01:54):
ago and will likely be differenta few years into the future. And
so, you know, with that, withthat caveat said. And then my
clarifying question is, wouldyou would you want me to define
what I think of team culture asa whole? Or how I'm building the
team culture at buyer?
No, how do you define teamculture as a whole? In general,
(02:15):
we'll get into the specificslater.
Interesting. All right. So Iwould define team culture
broadly as the shared set ofbeliefs, rituals and values that
any team grows and believes inand values, again, kind of
(02:35):
reusing that word, but theshared kind of combination of
beliefs that a team leadsforward, and how they actually
execute on a mission.
values, beliefs and rituals thatare shared. And that how is a
team how that affects the team'sapproach in getting to a shared
mission?
(02:55):
Yeah, because if you're on ateam, your goal is either to
score the most points and winthe championship, or if you're
on a business team, your missionis to actually execute upon
those, those specific goals. Andso how you actually achieve
those goals, while sharing thosevalues while sharing those
rituals while sharing thosebeliefs. That is how I define
(03:15):
team culture generally.
Interesting, interesting. And sowhere like, where does that
definition come from? Is thatsomething you've learned through
experience? Is that somethingyou read in a book? Or is it
something you were taught?
That's it's...I don't think Iwas ever taught this? I think
this is probably a book thatI've read a book that I probably
picked up somewhere along theway. The whole kind of the whole
(03:39):
kind of idea of culture is howdo we how do we kind of get
somewhere together while makingsure that our values are
aligned? And so, you know, I'veI've kind of built a few
companies I've sold my last oneas, as I build buyer. being
intentional about the culture isvery, very important, even
(04:00):
though you know, we're a smallteam, but but growing fast. And
so yeah, I probably picked it upsomewhere. Seems kind of like a
textbook definition. But that'skind of how I would define
culture, broadly.
Interesting. So this gettingtogether somewhere while staying
aligned, is pretty importantbecause teams can head to a
destination and then fall apartand absolutely conflict, it
(04:23):
could be riddled with conflicts,toxic star, you know, Star
talent on a team. So that's itdefinitely is really important
to have that understanding. Andto those again, those rituals,
values and beliefs that youmentioned before, definitely
helping that. And why why is itimportant to culture, cultivate
a culture and in a business orsports team?
Oh, man, I think culture is, youknow, it's it's essentially
(04:45):
everything. It's how yourcompany interacts together. It's
what you guys think, oh, youpeople think are important as
you execute. I think withoutculture, and this is kind of
touching back to why it'simportant without culture. Yeah,
it's not fun in terms of likehow you execute. And you also
(05:07):
probably don't have a greatresult at the end. A lot of
teams that don't have a greatculture, they fall apart before
they can actually achieve thegoal. So I would kind of
generally speaking, describe itas the metaphorical glue that
holds a team together, thathelps get that team to that end
destination. I also play a lotof soccer, and I box and so
(05:29):
there's one very team focusedsport and one very
individualistic sport, eventhough a team boxing is very
much supported by kind of yourcoaching and the people that
surround you. And in bothexamples, like I've seen, teams
fall apart, because they don'thave a shared mission and a
shared vision and a shared setof values. And it can be as
(05:50):
simple as you know, the soccerplayers bickering on the field
at each other, because theymessed up. A very good
counterexample to that is if youhave a great culture, everyone
encourages each other to makesure that yes, a mistake was
made. But you guys are likeyou're aligned, positive
reinforcement, you can attackthe goal the next time and same
with business, right, like maybea deal falls through or maybe
(06:11):
someone messed up some kind ofclient communication, your if
your values are high integrity,high honesty, internal
competitiveness, which, youknow, I'm giving those
illustrations because that's howI think about the internal
culture of buyer, you will notmake that same mistake, again,
the company will be will be ableto move faster and execute more
(06:32):
effectively. And so that's why Itruly think culture is
important. There is a lot ofkind of woowoo definitions of
well, you know, everyone has tobe nice, and everyone has to be
on the same page. And I don'treally believe in that, I think
it's generally speaking, it'sgood to have some kind of
internal competition and, anddisagreement between how things
(06:53):
are done, because throughdifferent disagreement becomes
their kind of better processesare revealed. And so that's,
that's a very long answer intowhy I think culture is
incredibly important.
Oh it's a great answer. And Ilove your analogy about the
glue. Because that's very vivid,and it's those. It's that
fabric, it's that that thatthing that holds people
(07:14):
together. And, you know, you'rementioning that it's, it's
essentially the the interactionsthat people have with each
other. I mean, but isn't itdifferent? And isn't? Wouldn't
you say culture is veryimportant where there's money on
the line, there's jobs on theline, like if somebody's playing
a recreational in a recreationalsports team, versus being in a
business where there's money onthe line, if the deal falls
(07:36):
through? How does culture differin those settings?
I generally don't make thedistinction, because and this
comes back to values. And sowhether there is $400 million on
the line, or whether it's arecreational soccer team
integrity could be a core valueto your culture, right. And so
(07:57):
I'm not going to rip someoneapart on the soccer field, just
as I'm not going to rip someoneapart in the business world.
There was obviously a time and aplace for for being stern. But
just because money is involved,doesn't mean your culture should
change or degrade. It's it'skind of how I think about my
internal beliefs.
Interesting. So you saying theintegrity is there? Regardless,
(08:20):
doesn't matter what you'redoing? Doesn't matter what the
stakes are?
Yes. Yeah. You know, integrityis is an example. I think
cultures will differ acrossteams, because individuals are
different. But I guess I'm goingback on my answer a little bit.
Because if the culture isdifferent between teams, it
might be, it might be lessintense. But the kind of the
(08:42):
illustration that I'm trying togive is, my, how I try and shape
the culture around me is, isvery much intentional,
regardless of what team I'm on.
And regardless of what thestakes are.
Nice. So you, you you seeyourself as a leader in the
teams that you're on,very much, so
very much so, yeah?
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
(09:03):
And then how can culture becultivated? And who, you know,
who has to be in thoseconversations? What's the
starting place?
I will say this with the answer.
First of all, I'm not 100% Sure.
Because I think there aremultiple ways to achieve the
right outcome in terms ofcultivating culture. I think it
(09:26):
starts with a it starts with it.
And again, this word of culture,especially kind of overused in
this context, but I think itstarts starts with a shared
knowledge of transparency. Andso do you have when you're first
building the team, because Imean, in the classic kind of
startup scenario is you are oneperson and your culture is
(09:47):
essentially yourself and itdoesn't really matter that much.
But as soon as you expand toanother person, your
interactions are the kind ofdefinition of how the bedrock of
the company is being formed. Andthen when that third person
comes on, the team has expanded,some processes are going to get
thrown into the mix and thingsare gonna change. But that
(10:09):
underlying bedrock of values issuper important. So building a
great culture is, is somethingvery difficult. So I think the
best way to cultivate it is bevery intentional about what
you're trying to accomplish fromthe outset, and being very
transparent about the valuesthat you want to see throughout
your organization. That's a weakanswer. And I don't love that.
(10:29):
But that's the best answer I cangive you, because I'm learning
about this as well.
Yeah, for sure. And I appreciateyour your humbleness and saying
that there's, well, first ofall, it's multiple ways to do
it. And that you're, you're notentirely sure. Because you're
still you're still learning.
When we think about values,which you brought up a couple of
times, like integrity? Whoactually would get to pick
(10:49):
those, like, if there's aculture, if there's a startup
that's going from five to 20?
employee? Who would who wouldget to pick those values? You
know.
It starts with the leadershipteam, for sure. And so, one of
the things that that I am veryintentional about. So let me
(11:10):
back up a second, when you'recreating a team, the way you
should think about your role,and this is specifically in
relation to a leader. And thisis not my advice. By the way,
this is advice that I've pickedup through business leaders much
better than myself. But I thinkthe way that I think about
leading a team and shaping theteam is you want to see yourself
(11:30):
as an editor. And so you know,what does an editor in chief do,
they synthesize information,they read line stuff, they cross
stuff out. And they make surethat you've, you've kind of you
need to include this key point.
And so has the overall missionbeen been achieved in this in
this paper. And so it's verysimilar to when you're building
a team, your initial hires areincredibly important. Because if
(11:54):
you were being intentional aboutyour values, you have to then
say, these values have to be inthese initial hires, and then
does their input, transitionedover into the next hires, and
does their kind of do theirvalues carry over. And so the
best way I can, I can describewhere that starts with is being
(12:15):
a very intentional leader, andbeing a very intentional editor
as you grow your team. And ifyou find the values are
slipping, it's incrediblyimportant to continue to edit
your team, and make sure thatthose people are no longer on
your team. And I mean, candidly,this was a mistake I made with
my previous company is there wasa misalignment of values, and I
didn't act fast enough. And Iwill tell you, I'll never make
(12:36):
that mistake again.
Right. So you're saying, firstof all, be the editor of the
team. So understand what thevalues are. And you said, those
have to come from the leadershipgroup. And then the second thing
is being careful who you let onthe team, especially early on in
that process where the team isjust starting to grow, because
that's going to multiply acrossand you want people that are in
(12:58):
alignment with those values, andthat actually lived them. And
then, so what I'm readingbetween the lines is one of the
best defenses against the toxicculture is who you let in.
Absolutely, I think that's avery great way of simply putting
it you know, I say it startswith leadership, but people have
(13:19):
to internalize these values, andyou shouldn't hire someone who
superficially internalizes thesevalues. And then, you know,
later down the line, you realizethat, oh, wow, they, they don't
align with our culture at all.
They don't believe in integrity,they kind of subvert things. And
they're not truly honest abouthow the, how their progress is
coming about. And so while itstarts with leadership, like
these are, these arecharacteristics that your team
(13:42):
should should valueindependently. And your job
should be, how do I bring theseto the surface as I interview
people? And how do I make surethat they are not just saying
it, and they actually believethis as they come on board? So
yes, absolutely. You know, editthe team and make sure that, you
know, it's it's as you so simplyput, they start with these
(14:04):
beliefs in the first place.
Yeah, that's I do think that'smassive. And, and then they say,
if you can't change the people,change the people. [LAUGHTER]
I love, I love I'm stealingthat. [LAUGHTER]
Oh, 100 100 words that I mean,that's, that's very in line with
being an editor of the team. Youneed to constantly edit to make
(14:27):
sure you're going in the rightdirection, effectively
And coaching, right coaching onteams has become has become
really, has become something alot of companies do, in that
they won't just fire somebodywho doesn't align with something
slightly. They'll try to coachthem through it and yeah, and
(14:47):
help them out and that's... Ithink that's a better way to
save, save money in the long runas well, because onboarding and
turnover are devastating.
devastating. Yeah. Can beOh, for sure. For sure. I think
the easy way around that is hireslow. Make sure who's coming in
your team in the first place isnot someone that you'll have to
let go. The caveat there is aneasy milestone is zero to 1
million and 1 million to 10million in terms of revenue. And
(15:09):
so the people who got you fromzero to 1 million are not
necessarily the people who getyou from 1 million to 10
million. Does that mean youshould let them go? No,
absolutely not. They should befocused on you know, creating
new products or doing otherproductive things. And so when I
say edit the team, I don't meanWell, thanks for your work,
goodbye. It like, as long asthey internalize those values? I
(15:32):
think there's, there's kind of aplace and I'm not saying
turnover your workforce everyevery mile, like revenue
milestone, but, yes.
But you may have to, is whatyou're saying. And the culture
is going to change as themission of the company changes
as the targets change aspressure builds up, and there's
going to be people that maybeeven with coaching can't, can't
(15:54):
handle that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and as a leader, helpingthose people move along to
better opportunities.
Totally, no, I completely agree.
Um, there's someone who I holdin great, very high esteem is
Patti McCord of Netflix. And herwhole thing was, how do we make
Netflix a great place to befrom. And I love that. Because
(16:15):
if you have an awesome companywith an awesome culture, who
solves very hard problems, andthen when the time comes that
you have to edit your team, andthere's no longer a good spot
for that person on the team, youhelp them find a great
transition role where they cango help another company succeed,
and your company becomes thatawesome place to be from. And so
(16:37):
like anyone who's ex-Netflix,ex-Google, ew-Facebook, like,
those are all awesome companiesto be from. So as a leader, I
think it's important to beintentional about how to make
your company a great place to befrom and, you know, that remains
to be seen with buyer, but Iwould love to achieve that in
any capacity.
Yeah. And that's, I guess whatthat means is having that having
(16:59):
cultivated that culture that'spowerful, and that people love
to talk about and talk about ina high regard. And in a
leadership group that peoplefelt was transparent, acted with
integrity cared about them. Iguess that's a piece that I love
that make it you know, making acompany, great company and be
from becauseThe caveat, there is. Oh, sorry,
No, I was just gonna say thecaveat there is your company has
(17:20):
to be well respected. Because ifyou're if you're Acme & co.
chemical consulting, or youknow, whatever, some ABC lawyers
& co., you could be, you couldbe a great company. But the
optics of that are very bad. Andso I think this works well in
tech. And so you, you also needto be solving an interesting
problem. And reinventing thewheel in a sense. Yep. So keep
(17:40):
that in mind, yeah.
How have you helped shape teamcultures? What's, you know, what
have you actually done toinfluence that process?
It's tough on a small team tosay, these are the specific
activities I've done, like, youknow, team site paying for
lunches, like, I think thatstuff is all kind of
(18:01):
superficial, I think the bestthing that I've done is be very
intentional about who I broughton the team, and make sure that
their values align with mine.
And so as the team grows, youknow, to touch back to that
editor example. How do I makesure that we are growing with
the right people in the rightrole, with the right values? And
(18:22):
I think that's probably the bestthing I can point to that I've
done to help grow the team. Andjust make sure we're mission
driven and mission aligned.
Right people, right value, rightrole.
And exactly.
And you're saying the hiringprocess is has been paramount
for you shaping...
Absolutely, absolutely. I am a,I'm a proponent. I'm a proponent
(18:47):
of hiring slow and it justworked out that our latest hire
came on board very quickly, abecause the pressure was Big B
because she is an absoluteRockstar. And she's proving that
again. And so I think we gotLucky with her. But I will say
like, I think hiring slow andmaking sure that you have the
time to actually find the rightcandidate is incredibly
(19:09):
important to making this work.
Because if your whole company isfalling apart, and you need an
actual person to feel some kindof requirement, and you say,
Well, you know, they're goodenough, and we'll figure it out
later. That is horrible forcultivating a great culture. And
so it's super important and itis this balancing act. And so
being prepared is probably thekey to unlocking this. I mean,
(19:30):
Airbnb is notoriously, I guessfamous or infamous for this,
depending on, you know, who'stelling the story, but they took
six months to to hire theirfirst employee, and they
described it as building a planeas you're falling off the cliff,
and the floor is approachingvery quickly. And so do you have
the time and the bandwidth andthe internal patience and
(19:55):
internal grit to soldier onwithout saying, Well, you know,
we'll hire this person, and thenwe'll fire them later and or
they might not be the greatestfit, but then they end up
staying, and then they end uperoding your company's values,
which I think is incrediblydangerous. So these are all
lessons that I try andinternalize as, as we build our
own internal team.
(20:16):
Wow, that's huge. They took sixmonths?
I think so you'd have to lookthat up. But yeah, I know. I
know. Yeah. It's a wild. It'swild
Their, yeah. Their storiy isquite fascinating.
It's incredible.
And these these cultures asthey're being shaped, there's,
there's you know examples ofproductive or helpful behaviors.
(20:38):
And there's toxic ones, what doyou think is toxic for team
culture? And how have you dealtwith those people or behaviors
in the past?
Oh, that's a that's a bigquestion. The former, the former
answers is relativelystraightforward. The behaviors I
think, are toxic are kind of theblame game and trust, and lack
(21:02):
of integrity within anorganization. Because I think
everything starts with if youare all on the same team, and on
the same side, it's not aboutshe's not on my team. He's on my
team. It's about we're all onthe same team. So if the sales
team is not executing on theirgoals, it's not a question of
(21:23):
the do a better job to executeon these on these targets. It's
what can I do to enable thesales team to execute more
effectively on their goals? Isit better sales material? Is it
you know, more bandwidth? Is itmore the top of funnel leads?
It's it's a question of sharedobjectives, versus Why are there
not more leads? What can likeit, blaming them and not
(21:47):
executing on something? The thesecond part of your question is,
how have I dealt with thatpoorly in the beginning of my
entrepreneurial career? I thinkI was too quick. I was too quick
to hire. And I lookedsuperficially in terms of who
could fill this problem rollright now. versus how can I
(22:10):
actually build people that wantto go far because it's the thing
that I try and internalize is,you know, if you want to go
fast, go alone, if you want togo far go together. But if you
take a dagger to the back alongthe journey, and they steal your
lunch, that's never ideal. No, Ithink I think making being very
intentional about the team earlyon is the best thing you can do
(22:32):
to deal with toxic culture andjust kind of continually being
aware of it as you go.
Is there a story that comes tomind with how?
Yes, but I will not say. I can'tI can't say I can't say over the
podcast.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Neat. I mean,bBcause I don't want to step on.
I don't want to step on anytoes.
No, no, no, totally, completely,completely okay. And I think
what you're mentioning around,you know, the blame game, like
(22:56):
blaming others, trust issues,lack of integrity, that
misalignment and lack of synergywithin the team and not being
aligned with the values. Thoseare, those are massive. And
that's what I keep hearing overand over, in my, in my
interviews on this podcast is,you know, trust trust is
massive, and transparency, likethose are two words coming up
(23:19):
over and over and over and overagain. And transparency really
speaks to communication, doesn'tit?
Absolutely.
Speaks to, right? Clarity?
Yeah, no, sorry. Continue. Yeah,absolutely. Interesting. Because
I think this is such an obviousstatement. It's, you know, the
statement of, well, you shouldtrust each other, it's like,
obviously, or it's, you shouldact with integrity. It's like,
(23:41):
of course, but I think there's avery big difference between
understanding those andinternalizing those. And I don't
think enough people trulyinternalize those, those kind of
values and bring those to thecore of the team. And I think
it's, it's often overlooked. Andso I'm, I try and, and I'm not,
(24:02):
I'm not perfect, obviously, Imake these mistakes sometimes.
But I try and internalize these,these lessons and kind of build
the people around me becauseit's so easy to let it slip and
say, well, they're so good atthis. Like they're the asshole
genius, right? They're the bestcoder I've ever seen. But
they're kind of a douche. Andit's like, well, is there a is
(24:22):
the boundary of letting thesuperstar on your team worth it?
Sometimes, yes, sometimes, yes.
Oftentimes, not necessarily.
Yeah, star star performers onteams can be really, really
tough to deal with, especiallyif they're used to being the
best on the team that they'vebeen on. And they know they have
the talent and the skill sets toreally crush it. And that and
(24:44):
they know they're valuable tothe team. They know they're an
asset. So they know that theycan probably get away with more
things and other people, whichcan be really tricky for the
leadership group. And so havingdouble standards is never never
really ideal in my view. And Ithink that having that really,
(25:04):
really goes back to values andthe behaviors that we're talking
about, like, are you behaviorsaligned with the values of the
company. And we don't do thathere. Here's how we do things
here. And Netflix, which youmentioned, has as a culture
deck.
Great, great read. Post it inthe show notes. That's a that's
an awesome read.
You know, a lot of times, whatI've noticed is we talk about
(25:25):
culture, and it's this airy,fairy intangible thing that
people know is important. Butthen we can't put a pin on it.
So how can leaders measure andassess team culture? Like what
are actual tangible ways tomeasure it?
(25:46):
I don't have a great answer foryou. Unfortunately, measuring
culture is incredibly hard,because the way I kind of
defined culture in the beginningis a shared set of rituals and
beliefs and values that eachmember of your team internalize
and share collectively. I thinkthere are certain behaviors that
you can look out for, but I, Idon't have a great answer for
(26:10):
how to measure it. Because, youknow, it's measuring it implies
that there's a there's anoutcome that is achieved. And
how do you measure integrity?
Well, the the kind of theinverse of that is like, bad
things have happened, becausepeople have been, have acted
with not high integrity. Andthat's something that you want
(26:32):
to avoid completely. And so,again, yeah, I guess I wish I
had a better answer for you. ButI don't, that's just kind of how
I think about it. And it's,it's, it's very tough to
measure. But I think again, itcomes back to bringing on people
that you can go far together,instead of saying, well, your,
your honesty was seven out of10. This month, and therefore
(26:53):
that's not good enough, andwe're gonna have to let you go.
I think that's a you know,that's a very over illustrated
example. But I don't reallythink about measuring culture, I
think it's, it's kind ofsomething that is always running
within the company. And it'ssomething that you have to
continually encourage people to,to share. So communication is a
(27:14):
great example of communicationand transparency is say, you
know, with remote work, it'seven more important to over
communicate in that sense. Andso, are we, are you sharing
specific wins with the entireteam? Or are you sharing errors
with just the management team,right. And that is something
that I would actively encouragemy team to share within with
(27:37):
each other. But it's, it's toughto measure. And so I think just
being a constant champion, andpromoter of these are the values
and these are the things thatwe're going to share internally.
This is how we're going tooperate going forward. Make sure
that you kind of execute onthese things together is is the
best way that I would say how wewould measure it. But again,
(28:00):
measuring isn't isn't kind ofeffective. But it's, it's tough
for me to define. I hope thatkind of answers the question.
It does. It does. And I think itgets us to a good point. I mean,
what comes up for me is a partof it is subjective. And part of
it, I think could be measuredobjectively, I think a piece of
it is...a piece of it would haveto be asking each member of the
team (28:23):
"What is the purpose? Like what's the mission of this
company?" And seeing how, whatpercentage of the match it is to
what the actual written downmission of the company is? Like,
what are the values of thecompany? Oh, I didn't know we
have values? Right? So takingthat as a measure, that would be
a good indicator of, oh, peoplearen't clear on what the culture
(28:44):
is. And therefore they're likelynot acting in accordance with
they might be right, thatclarity is the first place to
start, isn't it? We're talkingabout communication earlier,
like, What do I have to do? Whatdo I not do? I think a piece of
it is being in an office beingin seeing those seeing a
meeting, like a like a callonline or a meeting in person,
(29:07):
you can see you can pick up on alot of information from people.
Yeah. And, you know, do peoplehave a stake in? Like, what's in
it for them for working for thatcompany? I mean, how is that
helping get them towards their,their goals? And I think that's
a piece of the culture.
Absolutely.
And I think, you know,vulnerability is massive, and
I'm not sure how to measurethat. But I think knowing how to
(29:32):
create situations where there'spsychological safety, and by
psychological safety, I mean,are people open and vulnerable
to share and take risks and messup in front of their peers and
teammates, I guess? Yeah. So Ithink that sense of openness and
vulnerability is huge. And, andso so that's, maybe that's a
(29:53):
piece of it. And you know, like,you're on a call and you know,
he calls about the start you'rewaiting for everybody and like
five people aren't talking. Thatmight be an indicator that
something's, something's off.
Something's off. And a call isbuzzing. If people are chatting,
hey, I was week, you know,that's you can tell from some of
those things. What do you think?
Yeah, no, I, I like the valueassessment. What do you think
(30:18):
our values are versus what ouractual values are, because I
think that's a quantitative wayof measuring what the actual
outcome is. But I think I thinkyou're right, there's also an
implicit and implicit part ofit, where some of it is, is
internalized and very difficultto measure. The other thing that
I think is is important to noteis, there is a very real element
(30:38):
of slowing down your company, tomake sure that everyone is on
the same page with culture,because it's very easy to bring
people on and execute quickly,and say, This is what we're
actually moving towards, let'sget to the result. And there's a
very fine balance between speedof execution and implementing
(31:00):
processes. And that's a constantbattle that, that I face,
because the last thing I want todo is slow down my team, because
you know, we're a small, fastmoving company, and it, it pays
to be nimble, but also, are weare we executing quickly with
those shared beliefs, and whilethe culture stays intact, and
it's easy when you're a smallcompany, very difficult when
(31:21):
you're a big company?
Oh, man, you, you keep sayingthis. It's a gem. It's an
absolute gem, what you're sayinghere with not going too fast,
but also not going too slow. SoI think sometimes, leaders try
to build this tower before theybuilt the foundation, and then
the tower just ends up fallingover. Total foundation really is
(31:42):
those, like, when you're in thisspace, when you're in this
environment, when you're workingfor our company, company? Here's
what you've agreed to. And whenyou don't agree to this, here's
how somebody's going to call youout. as things change, as some
of those values become moreclarified, different maybe
(32:02):
really waiting for people to andjust keeping reminding people
about those. And I think that'smassive.
No, I agree. I think it's, Ithink there's definitely and,
and this is something that I dowith all my own team is anyone
who is going to be working withthat person that we are looking
to hire, they always have a say,in whether or not they want this
(32:26):
person on the team. Because a Ithink it creates transparency.
And be it's if I miss somethingin terms of a value fit or a
cultural fit, and they pick itup, and the second line of
defense. And so they can say,well, like their answer around
(32:47):
this scenario. It was kind oflacking in integrity. And I
think that's something to note.
I was like, wow, I totallymissed that. I think that's,
that's so interesting. And sogiving people a say, is a way
that we promote transparencyinternally. Again, it gets quite
tough if you're joining 1000person team, this works for
small companies, but you cansilo that out, and I think it's
important.
(33:07):
Well, I mean, yeah, if you're,if you're using Agile, to manage
your team, you have these, youknow, teams of up to eight
people. So if you're hiring fora position within that team,
maybe the other six or sevenpeople, you know, in this and
it's a that's a really great wayto do it. I know the the
Canadian snowbirds are like thefighting the jet flight Yeah,
(33:28):
flying jet formation. That's howthey onboard new members.
That's great. I love that.
They'll have somebody come totraining camp. Yeah, everybody
gets to say, and if one persondoesn't like that person, for
whatever reason, they don't makethe team. And that's it.
Yeah, and it's and it's tough tobecause you have to, you have to
kind of appeal to everyone,which is which is difficult. But
(33:49):
that's why it comes back tothere's there's an element of
danger here where if someoneexisting on the team has a
fragile ego, and they challengeand this new person challenges
their ego ineffective way, theycould speak out against it. And
so again, this this circles backto how do you create the initial
(34:09):
team, so that they welcome achallenge, and they welcome
difference of thought, becausethat should be incredibly
important. So when that newperson comes on, and challenges
your beliefs that might actuallybe for the better. And so, what
you want to watch out for isshared values with there's an
actual quote that I'm going tobutcher here, but it's, you
(34:30):
know, strongly held opinions.
It's strong, strong opinionsloosely held, which is if
someone comes in with a betterway of doing things, that's
great if they come in with anentirely different set of
values, not so great. And sounderstanding and identifying
that is very important as yougrow.
No, I think that's powerfulbecause you're that's ultimately
(34:51):
the people that are going to beworking with that person. Yes,
the egos egos can get in the waypeople of course where do you
work in the company, you canpotentially feel threatened.
Yep, right for their positionfor whatever, like, for whatever
reason. And so it's important tokeep that in mind as well. kimia
What is cultivating your culturemean to you? What does that
phrase mean to you?
(35:12):
What does cultivating culturemean to me? I think it, if I
were to boil it down, I wouldsay cultivating my culture means
setting the standard as thecompany grows. And so as we
enter, again, this comes, Ibrought it up a few times, but
it comes back to editing theteam. And so, cult, like,
(35:33):
cultivating is another word formaking sure everything is
aligned and growing properly.
And so as I build out the teamaround me, how do I make sure
that we are continually on thesame page, we are operating
efficiently. And effectively, wehave the same shared set of
values, and we can execute onour mission, because we are here
(35:55):
to accomplish something at theend of the day, and that is to
grow the business. And so ifwe're all here to hang out,
that's more of a club. We're notin a club. And so that's how I
would I would define cultivatinga culture is, is setting the
pace, setting the tone, settingthe values and making sure that
everyone is on the same page.
Oh, I love that setting thestandard, setting the pace,
(36:17):
making sure everybody's on thesame page and aligned and. Man
that you there's a lot of gemsin that and what you just
[LAUGHTER].
Man I think you give me a lot ofcredit, but I appreciate that.
It's it's really good.
Definitely. Really, really good.
I mean, when I think of. When Ithink of online companies versus
in person, companies, andculture cultivation...
Well every company is kind ofonline right now.
(36:39):
Well, yeah, right now, yeah. Alot of companies are on online
culture, cultivation is a littlebit different. like where do you
think that differs for in personversus online companies and
teams?
That's a good question. I thinkonline teams have an extra
element of force that they haveto apply to the culture. And
(37:00):
little things like a greatexample of this is I was kind of
heads down working, incrediblybusy. And Jay, you, my product,
and data manager said, hey, it'sit's one of our employees,
birthdays, can I expense cookiesto be delivered to her place?
Just as a as a kind of, youknow, welcome to the team, we're
(37:22):
excited to have you like, you'vebeen great so far. And I love
that. And like, it's little,little stuff like that, where
you would you know, you wouldbring someone coffee in the
morning, you can't do that anylonger. But the kind of the
internet world is, is lesschallenging than you think. But
it does require an extra bit offorce. And so how do you go out
(37:43):
of your way to have morning andevening syncs? Or if that's too
much, how do you actually makesure you're on the same page and
just connecting, because I thinkthat often gets overlooked in
person, you know, you see youroffice mates and you're there.
And you know, you can kind ofhave a good time and you can
chat. But there is a level ofdissociation, with an internet
business where it's very easy towake up, execute your tasks, and
(38:04):
then sign off. And I think itcan be dangerous, if you're not
intentional about making surepeople are valued, making sure
that they're a part of yourteam. And I, as a total aside,
in a business context, I thinkthere's going to be very big
businesses built around makingsure your internet company
culture is aligned. And here areall the different things that
you can do to include people.
And so again, a very, very longwinded way of saying it's
(38:27):
difficult online, so be moreattentive about it.
And that's the the syncs thatyou're talking about. You mean,
do you mean like campfireconversations? Like, were you
just chatting about whatever? Ordo you mean, like actual check
ins to talk about the tasks ofthe day?
I do a combination of both? AndI there's no, I don't think
(38:48):
there's one right answer. Buttypically, what we'll do is
we'll start off with a morningsync, where it's the it's kind
of each core team. And so, youknow, start off with casual
conversation. How was weekend?
How was your night? Like, whatdid you get up to? And I think
it's important to have anelement of that in every
meeting. And I actually thinkthere was a paper written that
might not have been a paper, butit might have been kind of an
(39:10):
informal study that teams thathave five to 10 minutes of just
chat before the meeting actuallybegins. they accomplish way
more, and they are much moretransparent. I'll try and dig up
that that paper for the shownotes for you, and for the
listeners. But I always try andfoster that that kind of
openness and casualness itbefore we dive into the test. So
(39:31):
we'll start with that. And thenwe'll dive into kind of the run
through of the day. And then atthe end of the day, depending on
how busy the day is, ordepending on how the day is
unfolding. We'll have an end ofday sync. And again, how was
your day What happened? anychallenges, anything that anyone
else can help with? And then wedo kind of a final wrap up. It's
not always necessary, but Ithink it's important especially,
(39:51):
you know, Internet companies, wetry and always do video, because
there is you know, you lose theface to face ness online. And so
I I think it's extra important.
That's massive. I've definitelyheard about that. I've heard
about that paper. So if youcould send that along, that
would be really awesome. AndI'll put it in the show notes
that that makes sense. Becausewhat one of the one of the
(40:11):
frameworks on Team culture, itsays that we have task cohesion
and social cohesion. And taskcohesion is how aligned Are you
on the task? Do you understandwhat your role is? What's your
responsibility? Do you see yourimpact on it? And then social
cohesion is, is this other partthat you talked about the five
to 10 minute chats before theactual meeting starts? So it it
(40:34):
and that is really important aswell, in enhancing team
performance? No, I really agree.
It makes sense. You, you bondbefore you go into battle, and
then you battle well togetherlike that. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Is there a book or resource thathas shaped your understanding of
culture that you'd suggestKimia?
(40:55):
You know, prior to this podcast,I was brushing up on on what i
what i thought i would bring interms of resources or books.
There's a great paper, it's moreof an essay, actually by Steve
Newcomb. It's called hire likeif you google Angellist radio
(41:16):
hiring, and hiring andmanagement. He was the person
who built it built a companycalled Power Set that was bought
by Microsoft and turned intoBing. And well being is, you
know, a shadow of what Googleis. A lot of people use it. And
he has some very interestingthoughts. The paper is called co
creation, by the way. That is avery, very interesting,
(41:40):
interesting paper. You know, Isay paper loosely, it's more of
a long essay. The other thingthat I think is interesting is
there's this company calledsnowflake, and their CEO,
released this great blog postthat I love. It's very intense,
and it's not for everyone. Butthe core takeaway of that blog
post is basically, if youimagine like water rushing
(42:04):
across, and you push it througha very tight hole, it becomes
very pressurized. So if youreduce the aperture of a kind of
a lens or have a kind of surfacearea, everything speeds up. And
his whole thing was how do youreduce the slack in an
organization to speed everythingup, while making sure that
(42:24):
everyone is aligned? The otherone I really like is the we
referenced this earlier, but theNetflix culture Deck, the making
sure Netflix is a great place tobe from, I think, is it Patty
McCord, Patti McCormick. Think,it's Patti McCord. I think I
said Patty McCormack before, butshe's awesome. She has a really,
really great and interestingtake on culture. And I think she
(42:45):
must have written a book by now.
But I listened to a podcast onthat. So it's little bits of
information that I've used toassemble My own view of culture.
And like I said, three yearsago, my answer would be very
different. In another threeyears, it will probably be
different again, so we'll haveto chat that. But I think those
are interesting resources.
Great, thank you for sharingthose, you know, what's one
practical tool leaders can usetomorrow to cultivate the
(43:08):
culture of their team?
I have a bit of a differentanswer. I think the tool is
zoom, and notes. And you shouldschedule an interview with as
many people on your directreports as possible or on your
team and have a have a chat withthem about the shared values of
your team record that, put thatinto a shared deck and review it
(43:30):
with everyone. That is probablythe most practical thing you can
do.
Wow, that is that is verypractical zoom, record some
notes. ask people what like,what do you think? What's this
team about? What makes usspecial? and excellent? What's,
what are our values? What's ourmission vision? And then but
And then summarize thatThat would definitely help you
cultivate your culture.
Yes, yeah. It just helps peopleget aligned. I think if you have
(43:53):
a view of how things are going,there is very likely alternative
answers. And what you think andwhat other people think are
often not on the same page,especially in an internet
business. And so making surethat you are on the same page,
taking out a day, you might fallbehind on your tasks. But if
your team is aligned, you willgo much farther together.
It's worth it. And then sharingthat with them.
(44:15):
Exactly. Yeah.
Neat. So maybe the last thinghere is tell me about buyer.
Tell me what you're up to andwhere they can find you.
Yeah, absolutely. So buyer isnegotiation as a service for
tech focused companies. And whatwe do is, we are essentially an
on demand procurement team forbusinesses we come in, we audit,
(44:37):
every vendor spend line itemthat a company is paying for,
and make sure that they aren'twasting money. We have all these
benchmarks on what companiesshould be paying and what they
are potentially paying. And soyou know, a great example is how
do we come in, you're paying for300 tools to run your business.
(44:57):
When you initially bought thosetools. How do you know that
Salesforce tableau, NetSuitethese enterprise tools that
probably cost 10s of 1000s, ifnot hundreds of 1000s of
dollars, how do you know thatyou're getting the best price?
So we come in we renegotiatethose contracts to make sure
that a company is saving moneyacross the board and buying and
spending responsibly. Thewebsite is www.buyer.co. You can
(45:20):
find me on Twitter at hkamia. orshoot me an email at
kimia@buyer.co.
amazing, my friend. It was greattalking to you. Let's
Yeah it a pleasureCuz I could talk to you for
hours and as always the dynamic,high energy conversation and so
thanks for taking the time totalk to us today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. It'sbeen a lot. It's been a lot of
fun.
(45:44):
Hey, thanks for tuning intoCultivate your Culture. Rate and
review our podcast on iTunes.
Any websites and resourcesmentioned in the podcast as well
as the guests information can befound on the show
www.kizo.ca/podcast. Here's asneak peek of what's coming up
in our episode next week.
(46:08):
You know, a lot of our models onleadership then suggest that
creating an optimal culture isabout prioritizing both which is
truly very difficult.
Prioritizing both relationshipsand results and performance. But
understanding that therelationships need to be in
service of creating optimalperformance individually and
(46:28):
collectively. Not just we havegood relationships we get along
we're friends, we hang out weknow things about each other.
But that we know the things weneed to know we have the dynamic
on our team that supports us inbeing able to do the things that
we want or need to do. And soit's really about starting there
(46:49):
on looking at the environmentand trying to cultivate an
environment that is going tosupport creating this culture.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.